Perkins Cut
Posted on March 23rd, 2008 – 10:04 AMBy La Velle
The Twins on Sunday optioned lefthander Glen Perkins to Class AAA Rochester.
Perkins , in 12 innings this spring, posted a 7.50 ERA. That included another shaky outing on Sunday when he got the ball up and gave up three runs to St. Louis.
Perkins had a chance to stick as a starter or a reliever but many in the organization feel he needs consistent work after pitching fewer than 30 innings last season because of a strained muscle near his shoulder.
The Twins are expected to make a bunch of cuts tomorrow. Should be an interesting day. Brian Bass looks to have made the team and Matt Tolbert appears close. This is a big day for Liriano. He has to be very impressive or the Twins will take the safe route and leave him in Florida.
The Twins also agreed to a trade with the Nationals so they can keep outfielder Garrett Guzman, who was selected by Washington in the Rule 5 draft in December. The Twins probably will get a low-level minor leaguer in the deal.
I don’t know if the Twins have a shot of getting their two other Rule 5 losses, R.A. Dickey and Tim Lahey, back. Dickey looked prime to win a roster spot with Seattle. Lahey was pitching well until lately.
Still waiting for Joe Nathan’s deal to be official. Will let you know when that happens.
Lineups
Orioles: Redman, Hernandex, Markakis, Scott, Moore, Jones, Heintz, Quiroz, Fahey. Pitching: Cabrera.
Twins:Span, Pridie (LF), Mauer, Cuddy, Monroe (DH), Lamb, Buscher, Punto, Everett. Pitching: Liriano, then Humber, Nathan and Rincon.
193 Responses to "Perkins Cut"
Good to see that Bass will get a shot at making the team. He has had a great ST and deserves it. I know it’s old, but i really hope that Tolbert making the team is a sign of Punto leaving. Perkins will eventually make his way back to the Twins this year.
So what is the rotation going to look like in the season. I know Livan is starting the opener which means i will skip it this year but how does it fall into place after that Boof than Baker Liriano, than take your pick on the 5th game? maybe Liriano takes the second game i just am trying to figure out what game to go to i guess. I already have tickets to the game on the 3rd but i would like to go to another one as well and i have always picked games by who is pitching.
bout time they got rid of perkins- he has never done anything to deserve a spot on the team. much better to see guys who deserve it like bass or humber and blackburn
Bush,
This year its not Santana, Silva, and you-pick-em.
This year I don’t think the Twins have “a guy” to plan your schedule around.
Liriano take the second game? I think he has earned a spot in Fort Myers for probably a month. He was fantastic in 2006, but one of the muscles that made him fantastic BLEW UP late in the year.
Give him, and the rest of the squad, a break and let him work his way back with the minor leaguers.
Yeah it is a pain for sure. I am going to miss having an ace on the staff, but at least I will see some runs scored hopefully.
[Edited] NICK PUNTO
I’m happy to hear the Nathan news. With the Nathan, Cuddy and Morneau deals, for once I feel confident that they are willing to lock up the core guys before it’s too late.
The Santana situation was unique, there are only a few teams that could have or would have offered that contract.
Hunter leaving was a product of not being proactive earlier.
Lay off Punto, he’s a fine utility/bench player. He will be valuable as long as that’s the role he’s used in.
He’ll be a very good defensive replacement for Harris or Lamb late in games.
Nick Punto is a very good utility infielder. In that role he is about as good as you can get in MLB. If Gardy can control himself and keep him from being an everyday player, he should have a nice year for the Twins.
We lost Hunter and Santana because of GREED! How many millions do these guys need? The Twins offered fair money, not the best, but very fair. Loyalty means nothing to pros anymore. Why does a baseball player need 90 or 100 million dollars? This is getting CRAZY! The Twins offers were not an insult, it was huge money for a small market team. I hope they both have lousy years!!!
Too bad, I really liked Perkins but I guess all the time off last year kind of hurt him. Bass deserves the spot, he’s been outstanding this spring. Hopefully Perkins can iron things out in Rochester.
I was just giving you a hard time yesterday LaVelle, glad to see you double negatives today! Any details on the Nathan contract?
I will go absolutely bezerk if Punto is on the opening day roster. I may even boycott attending any games this season if I am expected to watch Span-Punto-Kubel. This could be an exciting year if the right players are on the team and the dead wood is sent packing. A good offense is exactly what all the young arms need to help build confidence in themselves and get more time on the mound because they may be leading 5-4 instead of trailing 4-2. I really think the Twins can compete for the wild card this year.
you=no; I don’t know how that one happened…
Erik,
Your mother already did.
Just start your boycott now because Kubel and Punto will be on the team, as they should be.
Socrates,
I hope your easter is filled with pain.
AaronK, I agree, they both very well should be on the team. What’s with the anti-Kubel statements Hunter84? He’s a great player and will be a very important part of the team this year. While Punto should not be starting he will be invaluable as a late inning defensive replacement.
Easy does it. Nobody that bothers to read Lavelle daily and post his opinion is boycotting anything. This team needs more than just hitting. Punto had a horrible year at the plate last year, but he is a valuable asset on a 25 man roster. Not only did he make more fielding highlights on ESPN than anyone else on the team last year, but he is a valuable member of that locker room. He is well liked and keeps other players loose. If you don’t that’s valuable to a MLB team then I can’t help you. Why else is Barry Bonds not signed with anyone? Good bat still, locker room cancer.
Lahey Cubs 0-1 6.75ERA 5K 6BB
Dickey Mariners 0-0 1.50ERA 6K 3BB
Interesting lineup today. Will be nice to get a chance to watch both Span and Pridie in what I hope is a full games worth of play.
LEN3, what are the odds that one of Span/Pridie/Gomez is cut from the big league roster in the next few days? You gotta think with a week left till the opener that Gardy’s going to want to give the “standard” lineup time to play together.
Stop the drama. Who the Twins leave camp with has little to do with who the club will retain throughout the season. It’s still produce or get sent down.
I think the Twins can cut Nick Punto and not have to feel bad about it. I am sure Punto will find a home quickly. He is a good utility player, versatile, and he had that one above-average season that will make teams give him a look. Punto was a good fit last year when we really didn’t have anybody minors ready to step up. I think it is different now with Tolbert and Casilla one year closer to being ready.
“Why else is Barry Bonds not signed with anyone?”
How about possible 60-day-DL time due to incarceration? May be able to play home games every other Sunday.
T, if that’s true, that would make it harder to get rid of him. I was speaking more about the sentamentality of some of the Twins’ staff and players.
I was watching the TV show King of the Hill the other day and the kid, Bobby, in the show was participating in Track and Field for his school. What the Coach did was when he felt that one of his runners or such was not giving his all he would put the Bobby in his place and they would than lose that one contest. Than that kid would try harder so to not let Bobby take his place again. In short maybe we could use Punto to that effect. When a guy is not giving it all you put Punto in he place. You might lose the game but the guy wouldn’t want that to happen agian so he tries harder. We could call it getting “Puntoed” or getting “Nicked.” Any way yes i hate the fact the he is on my favorite baseball team but there really is not much i can do about it last time I checked the called ID i didn’t see the Twins calling for my input into their roster spots.
I think the Twins can cut Nick Punto and not have to feel bad about it. I am sure Punto will find a home quickly.
From my understanding, the Twins would have to pay part of Punto’s contract (if not all) even if another team picked him up.
I should add that it’s another instance of “fan logic”. The idea that even if we as fans can’t stand a specific player, and think he’s terrible, no good, and a cancer to the team…that some other team will still eagerly take him off our hands.
LaVelle, many of us have speculated that Lahey will just be agreed upon as the PTBNL in the Monroe deal with the Cubs.
Is that what you are hearing as well?
boys lay off of punto his defensive play is tops i mean tops! and that makes him a valuable role player on defense we know now he cant hit get over it people but you dont waste a guy who is this good defensively give him credit for that and dont forget or underestimate the value of top defensive play the twins need him in an appropriate role. wasnt last year enough of punto bashing for a lifetime?
I do like the posts that call for trading Punto, Lew Ford (last year), and even Bryant McKinnie from the Vikings to other team for their top players. “Let’s trade our worst players to another team”. Good times.
I’m only going to ask this once people. Please use punctuation. These 55 word sentences are giving me a seizure reading them. Capitalization wouldn’t hurt either. We are not savages!
Speculating on the rotation is far more enjoyable than rehashing the very tired Nick Punto must by shipped out conversation.
So, I’ll give you what I’d like to see–not what will happen.
1) Baker
2) Boof
3) Slowey
4) Blackburn
5) Humber
Livan back in the National League and Liriano in AAA.
T, I’m not sure what the “fan logic” comment was all about - that has more to do with people thinking we can trade away a player we don’t want. Like those who wanted Rincon packaged with Garza for Young. My comment was to cut Punto and let him find his way onto another team himself.
Here is what I do know. The first month of the season is going to be very fun watching new players and learning what they are all about. We may not have the fire power on paper, but I’m not going to get pessimistic in the month of March. Let’s at least wait until the all star break before we “fire da bums!”
PJS
I wouldnt mind that rotation, and i would love to see Livan anywhere but here. I think we are stuck with him for now anyway, but i do think he is and upgrade from last years Ponson, Ortiz. That said I would rather roll with the young ones and see what happens.
oh, another prize human being called eric….get a life kid…
A guy like Punto who can play 2nd, 3rd, SS, and if memory serves has even filled in at 1st and in the OF in energencies is NOT going to be cut because he doesn’t have a potent bat.
He’s that untility player that every team needs. Those of you who don’t like Nicky and are threatening to boycott games or whatever are in for a teeth gnashing season.
looks like pridie and span are gone, after listening to gardy this am…going to be some tough cuts, but my guess is those two go and tolbert stays as the 25th player….the way it looks today before this game……
The game does not appear to be on FSN as advertised. What gives?
Games on 29
Channel 10/ My29 it’s on.
i am watching on the directv….the station is labeled my29 for Minneapolis folks
Jo Ma’s got a cannon. Looking forward to the Ma to Everett connection.
game is on here in fargo on fsn
Here is what I was told about the Baker situation:
Scott Baker pitched 33 pitches in a minor league game yesterday before the game was rained out. Baker got to the 60-pitch mark with a ‘pen session afterwards. Baker is now scheduled to pitch again on Wednesday (75 pitches), and if all goes well he’ll stay in Fort Myers after the Twins leave Saturday to pitch in a minor league game on Sunday (90 pitches).
If everything goes according to plan, Baker will then head north after his start on Sunday and will pitch in the team’s fifth game of the season.
If all goes well with Liriano today and Baker on Sunday, then the rotation will likely be:
Livan
Liriano
Bonser
Slowey
Baker
Also, since Bass looks to be in, Humber and Blackburn would then start at AAA.
If Liriano is hitting 94, that bodes well.
Liriano is looking really good today he might head north after all.
What a fun inning at the plate Punto Evertt and Span.
If Liriano can get through 4-5 innings with the stats that he has now, he’ll be in good shape…
Then one more start will get him to 6 innings and he can go north.
After watching Punto K, I can’t help but wonder if the Twins will consider cutting him…
Directv has it on coco… look around for it?
Here is what the pitching will look like assuming the Twins will have both Liriano and Baker:
Hernandez
Bonser
Slowey
Baker
Liriano
Nathan
Neshek
Rincon
Reyes
Crain
Bass
Guerrier
Well turn it to My29 the game is not on FSN its on regular tv channal 29
I am bummed, Dish Network has a lame snowmobiler program on FSN instead of advertised Twins game. 
coco try channel 444 alternate I have dish net and it is on
any word on how hard liriano is throwing.
I saw it was up to 94 in the 2nd.
DickBert said he touched 94… not sure how accurate that is
And he is throwing his slider prety well too. 4Ks now.
any other readings im listening to it on the radio and they are not talking about how hard he is throwing.
So Gardenhire told the Dazzleman that Punto is getting lots a good swings this spring, or so Gladden said on the radio today. Sounds like spin to me.
Come on Mr. Gardenhire, I know you like Punto and I’m sure he’s a great guy but like Lecroy, sometimes your buds have to go.
Also John and Dan ripped apart Kyle Lohse yesterday for the entire broadcast, or at least until he left the game. I found the negativity unfounded. Lohse is an extremely frustrating pitcher but they make it sound like he’s had a terrible career.
And if your gonna slam Lohse for his locker room stuff you have to slam everybody. Hunter threw a punch at Morneau a couple years back and spent a lot of time questioning his effort. He was treated like a hero cause it was for the good of the team, yet Lohse questions the hustle of a player and he’s a villian on the radio everytime he pitches against Minnesota.
Lohse isn’t a #1 or #3 starter but give him some credit. He’s had a fairly long career at this point. Dan Gladden made it sound like he’s the biggest dissapointment in Twins history. Cut the guy some slack and call the game please………..
TwinsTerritory,
Punto will not get cut based on one at bat. He won’t get cut period.
THANK YOU VERY MUCH HUNTER84! 
:)
Nick Punto will likely begin the season as the starting 2nd baseman. Gardy will probably give him the chance. If his bat gets going a little, Gardy will keep him there. To appreciate Punto, is to have a higher understanding of the game.
Gardy knows that Punto is one of the top fielders on the team, right up there with Mauer and Everett. That ability can’t be minimized. Punto wins games with his glove.
Punto also is one of the faster players who will be on the 25 man roster. Only GO and maybe Tolbert will be faster. The team is really lacking in overall speed. Speed helps in the field, and also on the hitting and base-running side. Gardy recognizes the value of Punto’s speed.
Punto is also a veteran. His veteran experience is valuable. Gardy appreciates that veteran experience.
Some of Punto’s mistakes have been ridiculously over-magnified by some of his haters. He actually is a very solid fundamental player. He also has highly rated intangibles, such as hustle, determination, teamwork, being a hard worker, having a good attitude.
Nicky deserves to be the starting 2nd baseman. At least he deserves the chance when the season starts.
im not sure what makes anybody that follows the twins think punto wont be on this club…punto is as much a part of this club as anyone this year, and all this nonsense about him not making this team or wanting him gone is all in vain…..get used to it folks, punto is a twin in 2008….
Well i think that will mean that Buscher will not be heading north now. 2 ABs with runners in scoreing position and 2 outs and he ends the inning both times not looking good.
Gladden makes listening to games difficult at times, though not as difficult as Dickbert can make things.
“Only 14 more days until my birthday!”
*sigh*
i dont have a problem with punto making the team as a backup but not a starter if he accepts his role he will be fine.
starting 5 what do you guys think
1. hernandez
2. Liriano
3. Bonser
4. Slowey
5. Baker
Craig, I agree with your thoughts on Punto only if our SS is an offensive force. Twins can not afford 2 (almost) automatic outs in line-up. Punto can be late inning defensive replacement & spot start to rest starters….. Franchise looks likes he is pitching for a roster spot today.
any other velocity readings today has it been consistantly in the 90’s
Where do we need a back up more, 1st and 3rd or 2nd and SS? If Tolbert goes north as the middle of diamond back up. Who becomes more valuable off the bench to back up 3rd and 1st? Punto or Buscher? Liriano is done 4 innings 0 hits allowed.
Craig, I sure hope that is your sarcasm coming out again about Punto. It has been displayed here numerous times over the past week that Punto’s fielding numbers are no better than Harris’. Harris has a much greater offensive upside so there should be absolutely no way Punto gets the nod at 2B. Right on cue LNP delivers with another horrible AB.
Gardy has said Punto is a much better fielder that Harris.
Harris has not proved to be a much better hitter than Punto.
Punto appears to be the logical choice, of the two players, to be the starter.
any idea the pitch count? i’d like to see Liriano go 1 more inning
nevermind… guess he’s gone 68
What a frickin stitch!! Didja see the new Twins commercial?
Oliva, the Twins Dali Lama….LOVE it!!!
Rotation will probably line up as follows:
1. Hernandez
2. Bonser
3. Slowey
4. Liriano
5. Baker
This based on the idea that Liriano will probably throw again on Friday putting him in line for the Thursday day game vs. the Angels. Baker will also need additional time to get his strength back and should be able to make his first start against KC.
mj1 very good point.
twins should send gomez home a few days early and let him get used to catching fly balls in the dome, as the first few games could be interesting defensively
coco,
I agree Punto and Everett, back to back, will be weak as hitters. Harris doesn’t appear to be the answer. He is a liability in the field, and his hitting has not been impressive.
Right mj1…….and Gomez too.
Just tuning in to game on TV.
Saw Liriano’s good inning. He looked very good. His delivery looks quick, hitters don’t look like they get set good.
His slurve has good movement and seems to fool batters. Don’t know how fast he throws it, do you? He hit 91 on a fastball.
68 pitches, right? He didn’t look tired. No negatives……except to compare him to the old Liriano.
And there’s negatives for every pitcher in the world when you’d compare him to the old Liriano.
Jerry D,
Can you explain the reasoning behind saying Harris is as good as Punto fielding-wise? Saying it doesn’t make it so.
Oh my gosh the Os are going to lose over 100 games this year for sure. I know this isn’t the everyday squad but man you would think you could pick up a grounder. Also their division is tough too 100 games for sure the question is how do they find a way to win 62. That said I have to say that this Adam Jones that they got has a prety nice swing nice and smooth.
Jerry
I hope your right i have tickets to that game would love it if it was Liriano going to the hill.
Liriano hit 94 today, that’s a good sign. He also controlled his slider pretty well and got some strikeouts. All and all he looked like he’s progressing very well; it’s too bad he came into camp late.
BC, we get it, you hate Punto. Did he sleep with your wife or something?
BC Beneke..no arguement here. Not everyone is a “homer” some of us are realistic also.
Why does Gardy insist on putting Punto in every TV game this spring?
You guys are going to give me grief I’m sure, but Punto kills ratings, and is going to drive sales of tickets down.
Personally I’d rather see a fan play the game than Punto… he plays the game the wrong way… he can’t hit, and his fielding is overrated.
Punto is Lew Ford without an Iron.
Did you turn off the TV because Punto is playing?
Big AB for Buscher’s chances right here.
For those of you who didn’t see it, Liriano, as advertised, has the more reserved delivery.
I suppose his slurve is more hittable than the old slider; but like I said before, it had great movement, both downward and left-to-right. And if he can hit 94 on the FB………
I didn’t see it in the 4th, but they say his changeup is still great.
So it’s merely all about command for him. He looks a lot better than Perkins has this ST.
And another GREAT ab for the team MVP. I changed my mind Punto should be batting clean up for the team.
Oo, Punto up with the bases loaded.
Orioles feel threatened and make the pitching change!
Suckers. He makes the EZ out of course.
What a waste at the bottom of the order today. Giving away outs all day down there at least Buscher finally did something and that was not swing that must have been tough for him.
the patented Punto pop-up!
Who was that Mauer basher on the blogs a week or so ago?
I hope he’s licking his shorts at home right now, watching Mauer make another perfect peg to second.
He could be the best catcher in baseball this year.
Buscher has been there for what a week? You’re right he should be a gold glover by now.
I am usually just a lurker here, but this particular comment struck me as either hilarious, or incredibly stupid:
“Punto wins games with his glove.”
You’ve got to be kidding me…
I don’t think Buscher has showed he can be useful at 1b. He messed up that bunt to the right side of the infield, and I have to think Morneau could have saved those errors.
Romer
I think he is for sure the best defensive catch in the game, but i tend to be a homer. I think he needs to stay on the field a little more and his offense will come around too. It will be hard to compete with Vic Martinez playing for the Tribe offensively as much as i hate to say it. Not to say that I think that he can’t hit I just think that It could be better.
i think punto made a great play on that popup….cut him some slack…
Noone said Buscher should be a gold glove first basemen, but there’s only so much time for him to show he can be used there.
Punto in the field, not at the plate. Otherwise it’s tyranny.
That Nathan guy is pretty good do you think he will head north with the ball club.
Maybe Punto can be the back up at 1st? I mean what with his “best glove” in MLB. Maybe Punto can be used as a starting pitcher if the young arms fail. I bet Punto comes on big and goes to the All-Star game because of his glove. Sorry….but really who is going to play first to get Morneau a break once in a while?
DickBert are rounding into season form
Rincon with too many walks and not enough K’s this ST.
I like his daddy beard.
First 2 Rincon pitches…….no-command high on the 1st, then he aims it on the 2nd.
Result? Single to right (played into a double by Knott).
I’d give an error to Butcher on that one. Easy hop.
Of course Lamb didn’t make the play either.
Lamb to Buscher is not a good combo
that was a minor leaguer, luke hughes i believe at 3b ….
It was not Lamb. It was an unkown minor leaguer. Buscher actually did a good job staying in front of an awful throw.
Rincon really stinks too. Its crazy how that juice can even help pitchers too.
you’re right…. doing too many things at once
was still ugly once earlier in the game.
better to learn for Buscher than a guy who throws well i guess.
I think that when Livan pitches, they should play Punto at 2nd, DH for him, and let Hernandez bat.
zippers…can they actually do that? That would be AWESOME! LOL.
We’d have to lobby for a slight rule modification. Let’s call it the Punto Correllary to the DH Rule.
Hunter84, the hard throw from lamb was 7 feet short and bounced straight up into Buschers’s chest.
Bad reaction by Buscher, jerking his head to avoid getting hit in the head.
I realize however that no official scorer would give the errot to a 1st baseman on such a “wild” throw. They scored it as a hit.
But I consider it two misplays, one each by Lamb and Buscher.
has anybody heard anything if the nathan deal is done and if so when it will be announced
Neshek coming in reminds me that AL teams have only 7 innings to beat the Twins this year, with Neshek pitching the 8th and Nathan the 9th.
Don’t know of any other tandem in the League like that
the Yankees romer
Have to take Franchise’s performance with a grain of salt a litte cuz he wasn’t exactly facing a fierce lineup.
Anyone who still wants Buscher on this roster, please contact me. I have some great subprime securities that you I would love to sell you. Since you obviously can tell quality, you should have no problem recognizing the great buy I have for you.
He has been there less then a week…but he gets no slack from the same people who defend Puntos lack of bat after how many years in the big leagues. Do you think it is easy to play a new position at the major league level? It was stated earlier by Bert that Dave Winfield could not handle 1st base and he is a Hall of Famer..so lets rip a kid after one week.
Punto has his place on the team. That place is:
-late inning defensive replacement
-late inning pinch runner
-occasional starter against weaker teams to rest the starters.
The problem is that Gardy thinks that Punto should be more. Unfortunately he cannot be. Realistically, he should get about 100-150 ABs max per season.
Shawn,
the Yankees’ have bullpen issues. Joba has been good but Mariano is on the downside. He is no longer automatic. And Joba had only half a good year…
As of right now..who is the back up first baseman? Lamb? He is most likely the starting 3rd baseman. Cuddy? Monroe? who is there if Morneau gets hurt? Jones is off the roster. Kubel? don’t even go there. I would like a serious answer from the experts.
“As of right now..who is the back up first baseman? Lamb? ”
Lamb
Monroe
Cuddyer
“who is there if Morneau gets hurt? Jones is off the roster. Kubel? don’t even go there.”
If someone gets hurt, they will tab AAA as necessary:
Macri
Buscher
Casilla
Span
Pridie
are all in the 40-men roaster….
So in other words…we have no real back-up first baseman.
“Who is the back-up first baseman” is about number 67 on my list of things to worry about regarding the Twins.
Honestly…how do some of you come up with this stuff? Morneau will play 150+ games. The other 2 days a month can be filled in by almost anyone. First base isn’t that tough to play adequately for a day or two. And if Morneau goes down for any extended period, who cares who plays first?
Yeah, hunter84, I shouldn’t have used the nickname “Butcher”. I take it back.
But I don’t consider either Buscher or Punto to be a kid. And Buscher’s overall performance this ST is a disappointment.
Neshek coming in reminds me that AL teams have only 7 innings to beat the Twins this year, with Neshek pitching the 8th and Nathan the 9th.
Don’t know of any other tandem in the League like that
Okajima/Paplebon
Liriano had a solid outing today no matter who he faced. It doesn’t matter about the stats so much. He was able to throw 68 pitches and if he can get through that one last outing healthy, he should be heading north.
Rick says:
bout time they got rid of perkins- he has never done anything to deserve a spot on the team. much better to see guys who deserve it like bass or humber and blackburn
—————-
All I know is that Perkins has a career 2.88 ERA in the Bigs and Bass, Blackburn & Humber don’t have diddley…Glen will be back. After all, we have all of 2 lefties on the team.
LaV how do you see the roster shaping up? Who heads north a Twin? And who gets the minor league bus rides?
The Perkins cut surprised me, just because the Twins have only 2 lefties remaining (Liriano and Reyes). If Keisler had not been cut, I would assume that he was going to be a lefty out of the bullpen. If you keep 12 pitchers you better have more than 2 lefties… so I think that this might be an indication that there will be 11 pitchers and both Tolbert and Pridie will make the trip up north
Thanks, snepp. 2 such tandems. Pretty unique.
Perkins has never been a reliever in the minors. So the Twins make him a reliever last year. And then the want him to start this year. That makes him an automatic work in progress.
Not dissing the Twins or Perk, but looking back it’s not surprising he didn’t do so well. He’ll be back. He’s a Twins Twin. They like him.
They were trying to give Buscher the opportunity to demonstrate some versatility at other positions. I know he isn’t a regular 1st baseman. Why is that a reason that he not be evaluated as not showing that he is capable of handling 1st base?
I’ll concede that Punto isn’t a good hitter if you’ll quit repeating it over and over as if it’s a personal victory for you.
Punto is a good utility infielder??? No he isn’t. The guy can’t hit. That’s why Tolbert, who can hit, is a better option. Get it? That’s why many of us want him out of here. I mean, why settle for a good fielder that can’t hit when you can have a good fielder that can bit? Why? Because of “experience”? Most of Punto’s “experience” has been a “BAD experience”! Do you Punto defenders realize that Brad Radke was probably a better hitter than Nick Punto??? That’s sad. The guy doesn’t deserve to wear an MLB uniform, plain and simple. Good riddance, you bum.
Craig
Nice stretch on the Punto scenario. (LOL.) That’s really some “higher appreciation.”
Your analogy is nothing short of farce. If you want experience, Harris brings almost the same amount. If you want slick-fielding, speedy infielders, Casilla might be better in both areas, when allowed to “season” at the MLB level.
Nick Punto is a waste of $2.4 million, and he’s taking a roster spot that could go to a more deserving player that will be here next year and beyond.
Everyone in the Twins system plays team ball. Damn near everyone in the organization is a “nice guy.” Your reasoning is absurd, Craig, at best. In fact, you sound like Gardy’s wife.
[…] heard any word yet on what the plan is for Perkins, or how long the expect him to remain at AAA. According to LEN3, the feeling in the organization is that he needs consistent work after taking most of last year […]
But Punto plays better defense than probably any other twins infielder, so he is actually quite valuable as a late inning defensive replacement for say, Brendan Harris. It makes sense that the twins would use him as a solid backup defensive player. His hitting (if it ever again matches 2006 numbers) would be a bonus. Otherwise, it is the sacrifice made for late inning defense.
I didn’t read all the comments yet, but there was a question about DH’ing…
You can designate hit for any player in the starting 9… so yes the pitcher can be allowed to hit, and you can DH for Punto. It’s never been done in the major leagues as far as I know, but I remember some games in high school where they had the DH for the RF.
I was kind of hoping we would take Garrett Guzman back… then we could cut Darnell McDonald, and have some actual propsects at AAA along with the doormat SPAN in CF for the Rochester team.
The Rotation looks now like?
Hernandez, Bonser, Baker, Liriano, and a fight between Blackburn and Slowey with Slowey having a slight 55/45 edge.
Bass will make the bullpen… Humber will get sent down tomorrow.
Denard Span showed again today why he’s lousy… giving the job to Gomez in CF.
And the big battle for this last couple weeks here is going to be Tolbert vs Buscher. I’ve been saying Tolbert since December, but I don’t hate Buscher either. Just LNP who should have a DNP every game of the year.
Punto’s glove is overrated, and his bat is so bad that I don’t even think Jesus would shake his head and say something are as impossible in Heaven as on earth.
“It has been displayed here numerous times over the past week that Punto’s fielding numbers are no better than Harris’.”
There are NO valid fielding “numbers”.
Fielding Average has been discredited more often than a hooker’s virtue.
I want Harris to be the Twins 2B also, but don’t tell me he is as good as Punto defensively or I will vomit on the blog.
Find me ONE baseball professional scout, field staffer or FO staffer who thinks Harris is as good an defensive IF as Punto and I will retract everything I just wrote.
“Your reasoning is absurd, Craig, at best. In fact, you sound like Gardy’s wife.”
Lala72,
Busted! Yes, I am Gardy’s wife, and it’s really starting to bother me that Ron likes Nick so much. I try to defend Nick, and I keep trying to come up with reasons why Ron is playing Nick so much. I think it’s becoming obvious, there could only be one reason.
It’s not easy being the manager’s wife. Before you all criticize me for not doing my job, each one of you need to walk a mile in my high heels.
here is the pitching rotation.
Hernandez
Liriano
Boof
slowey
Blackburn or Humber
with Bass in the Bullpen
If Dickey is reclaimed
Bass goes to the five spot and
Dickey to the pen
BC Beneke says:
I didn’t read all the comments yet, but there was a question about DH’ing…
You can designate hit for any player in the starting 9… so yes the pitcher can be allowed to hit, and you can DH for Punto. It’s never been done in the major leagues as far as I know, but I remember some games in high school where they had the DH for the RF.
—————
Ummm….you could do that in amateur ball, but NOT MLB. You may ONLY DH for the pitcher in MLB.
BC,
MLB baseball rule 6.10(b)paraphrased.
A hitter maybe designated to bat for the starting pitcher and all subsequent pitchers in any game ……
High school rule governed by National Federation of High School Associations is different. see rule 3.1-4:
A hitter may be designated for any one starting player(not just pitchers)…
I stand corrected.
My apologies to Ron and Carol for the spoof. I am obviously not Gardy’s wife, but I couldn’t resist.
I like Neshek and Nathan aka The N&N Boys, but Joba and Mariano match up pretty well, as do a number of other late-inning tandems. Quit being such homers…you’re all starting to sound like Gordo and the Dazzleman.
The reason Punto is going to play 2nd is because, at this point, Punto is the best player Gardy has for the job.
Brendan Harris is not an everyday, major league, middle infielder. Brendan can be a middle infielder on the Rays, but not on any other team. The Rays had BJ Upton playing in the middle infield! I’m not suggesting Harris is as bad as Upton in the field, but it shows what a low standard the Rays have.
Future stars: The G&G boys. Carlos Gomez and Toby Gardenhire.
The Twin’s scouts & field staff are much better evaluators of talent than anyone on these blogs. How many players that left the Twins have had better careers away from Mn? David Ortiz, yes….. but all teams passed on him until Sox took a flier on him. Dougie baseball, Rivas, Christian G., Koskie, J.Jones, Milton, Hawkins, Eddie G., Lohse, and the list goes on & on. Not too many All Star appearances there. Santana & possibly Hunter may change this string of “lost talent”. Have a little faith in the Twins, they are trying to win. Enjoy the rebuilding / reloading season. We will be good again & soon.
There are NO valid fielding “numbers”.
This is wrong, there are various fielding metrics that are quite valuable (not fpct).
snepp,
How can it be proved that a fielding metric is valid?
Like any metric, it must correlate with an accepted standard and I don’t know what that accepted standard could be.
Like a one foot length closely matches with a one foot long (something) which is stored (somewhere).
Another solid outing by Humber today. All three of Bass, Blackburn and Humber have had excellent springs. But, for my money, I would say Humber > Bass > Blackburn in terms of spring training results. If Humber gets sent down, it’s not because of the spring he’s had. It’s because the Twins wanted to give a job to either Blackburn or Bass. And between the two Bass seems the sure thing because he’s out of options. It will be interesting to see how he fares against a major league line-up, rather than the collection of AAAA hitters he’s faced this spring.
I want to echo what snepp said. All fielding stats have some validity. (Validity is really not a good word choice here, because it does not admit of degree, and fielding is not a question of absolutes. But I digress.)
I think the poster means you can’t draw conclusions from fielding statistics, which is false. Fielding percentage is useful as a gross number. For example, Lamb’s .925 fielding percentage for his career is obviously worse than Nick Punto’s .975. It’s obvious that Punto makes fewer errors per chance.
But FPCT is not useful in measuring range. For that ZR or UZR are the state of the art (and it is an art, not a science). In this measure, Nick Punto is about average. Adam Everett is near the top. Mike Lamb is well below average. Brendan Harris is near the bottom. Gladden said today that Punto was the best fielder in the Twins infield. The numbers do not support that statement. Then again, Gladden said the same thing about Juan Castro a couple of years ago, and he is below average on UZR, which most Twins fans will accept as true (if not valid).
Until Gladden or any other Twins broadcaster questions a decision the Twins make, I’m not sure how anyone can take any of their analysis with anything but a grain of salt. They are employees of the Twins. Why would anyone believe they are doing anything but selling what the Twins want us to believe?
As for Punto, I swore off reminding people that he’s not all the good a fielder for a week, so I can’t comment on him quite yet:)
Humber will be in the rotation at some point this season. He was a top pick a few years ago for a reason, and he’s now two years of actual pitching removed from surgery. I don’t think he’s likely to be a number 1 or 2 anytime soon, but he has a chance to be a middle of the rotation guy.
Bass is likely the winner of the competition right now due to his lack of options, and his role as a reliever. I think they’ll want Humber starting to see how his stuff is.
Coco
A lot of that is luck though too.
Did we know that Guardado, Milton, Koskie, and Guzman for the most part would all get hurt?
Guzman however is still a viable candidate to be a solid everyday ball player.
I don’t know of anyone that bitched about losing Lohse (australian for loss), or Rivas, but it’s cool to toss them in.
Hawkins has done ok for himself as a middle reliever, but not as a closer like some teams thought of him.
So I see where you are coming from, but it’s pretty safe to say that the second part of your comment is as true if not more so…
I think that Hunter and Santana are going to do better away from MN than they did here.
I see Hunter hitting .285 with 31 homers, 30 doubles, 5 triples, and 115 RBI out of the 5-6 spot in their roster.
I see Santana at 21-8 with a 2.99 ERA 257 innings, and 289 Ks in his first year in the NL. I also see him hitting .255 as a pitcher with 8-10 RBI.
Zone Rating or Ultimate Zone Rating has been thoroughly discredited, in the minds of many. I don’t think the Twins even consider it. I’ve never heard any Twins official ever mention it, much less refer to it as having any validity.
The Twins have better, proven ways of evaluating players fielding ability. Statistics are fun and interesting, but rarely give an accurate reflection of what actually takes place on the field. Fielding statistics are probably the most inaccurate measure of all. Statistics are just a small portion of a larger picture. It’s important to be able to see the entire picture. Few have this ability.
CMath,
“I think the poster means you can’t draw conclusions from fielding statistics, which is false.”
You can always draw conclusions from anything including FA.
Without giving away my age, I read (or remember) when Richie Ashburn’s FA always topped that of Mays, Mantle and Snider and the conclusion drawn in Philadelphia wasn’t exactly the same conclusion drawn in the rest of the baseball world. But everyone did draw conclusions including the conclusion that FA was crap.
Mike… did you make a reference to Dan Gladden as someone who is in the Know?
I wouldn’t expect him to get an order from McDonalds correct. That guy is terrible at announcing… He and Gordo are terrible dude. You need to checkout a Dodgers game or a Yankees game… that’s poetic. The Reds have a brilliant guy working for them, and the Angels announcers are quite good as well.
But remember that Gladden is a Twin for life, and is paid by the Twins so that is kind of like putting Kenneth Lay in charge of the Energy Crisis… no one would know more, but also he’s the cause of the problem. So I’m not sure I can ever agree with that kind of thinking.
Only listening to the Twins talk about themselves is not how you can form a solid opinion. Look at it as objectively as you can… not through rose colored Carl Pohlad specs…
there are various fielding metrics that are quite valuable (not fpct).
Fielding Percentage is quite accurate - it tells you how often a player boots a play they should have made. Obviously that isn’t the only criteria for how good a fielder a player is, but it is certainly an important factor.
And it doesn’t have the problems that things like caught stealing for catchers or outfield assists do. With those you are really measuring mistakes in judgment by the runners since they presumably should have considered the quality of the defender’s arm before they made the attempt.
Most of the stats that claim to measure things like range mostly get their results by ignoring important factors, like how hard hit the ball was. Or they ignore the impact of other factors outside the fielder’s control.
BC, I think Johan may have an even better season than you predict. Another Cy Young or two may be in his future. Good for him. At least a couple of the prospects we got for him will hopefully turn out as at least solid MLB players. Torii not so much. He still can not hit an average breaking ball. He still does not work the count well. If he remains a “star”, it will be because of the perception of him in the much larger market. He will be playing under a lot more pressure than ever before, we will see how he will do. Good riddance to him. He was very two faced the last couple of seasons here.
Stathead,
“Fielding Percentage is quite accurate - it tells you how often a player boots a play they should have made.”
Does it tell you how often he doesn’t boot a play (that another guy would have fielded routinely) because he was too slow to get to it?
My (and other people’s) eyesight and memory are capable of that evaluation.
No, I said the same thing as you. Nothing Gladden or any announcer paid by the Twins says should be taken as serious analysis of the Twins.
Statistics are considerably better at predicting things than are peoples’ biased opinions. You all can holler about grit, team play, chemistry, whatever, but statistcs are excellent predictors of outcomes. They are not the only tool to be used, but they are an excellent tool none the less.
If Tolbert makes the team, I wonder if that means Monroe gets DH more than Kubel. That way you have Kubel as a lefty with some pop off the bench to PH for Everett. If Kubel was the main DH it would seem to make sense to have Buscher as a left handed PH option.
Gladden is awful, but I like Gordo. Gordo is chronically confused, but he can make the most mundane play sound exciting. The Twins will be offering up a lot of the mundane this year, so they need Gordo. Gordo is also known as one of the nicest men around. He’s truly a first class gentleman, by all accounts.
“Fly ball deep to right… Way back! Way back!… Touch ‘em…Touch ‘em…. Ohhhhhh……. Caught by the second baseman!…. Dazzle, I thought that ball was out of here.”
Everett Fan.
that is a great commentary.
Personally I think it starts out as a lefty/righty thing, and then will eventually evolve into whoever is better, or HOT is going to get the majority of the atbats.
I like Tolbert as the eventual 5th infielder to Morneau, Plouffe, Casilla, 3rd baseman…
I honestly thought before they signed Lamb that they would go with a platoon of Macri and Buscher at 3rd base this year, and if neither panned out that they would go after Hank Blaylock next year in Free Agency, but now it looks like we are just filling in one body for as long as we can get away with it until the reincarnation of Gary Gaetti appears out of our system, and I’m not sure we have that kid yet, lol.
Cut Punto, Rincon, and maybe Kubel!
I just won’t believe that Tolbert will beat out Buscher until I see it. It looks like we could use a PH for both 2B and SS. Having Buscher and either Monroe or Kubel off the bench is more appealing. Tolbert is just too similar to LNP.
Craig… as much as you usually make me shake my head…
the back back back to 2nd base was great… it truly encapsulated Gordo… it’s nice to give someone with dimensia a job describing things… it’s like getting to listen to someone on drugs describe something…
And I’m with you Gladden is worse than the guys from the White Sox who were actually voted to be the worst announcers in professional sports when it was hawk and whimpy.
Everett_Fan,
You have it right. Kubel pinch hits for Everett.
Tolbert then comes in to play SS.
If Gardy starts using Harris at 3B this week, I think he will use Harris as a semi-platoon with Lamb. I bet this week Gardy also starts using Harris a little at 1B. Harris could be a decent backup corner infielder, and a last resort middle infielder.
Did Harris play today and struggle? As far as I know they haven’t given up on him at 2B. They don’t want him at SS but they think he can play 2B.
Everett Fan=
This is uncharacteristic of me, but I have a weird feeling that Everett is going to hit about .255-.265 this year, and with his defense that would make him phenominal. He makes productive outs, knows how to hit and run, and I really think that batting 8th in the NL he’s never going to get a decent pitch to hit. In the American League however I think that he will get more fastballs at the 9 spot, and will turn enough of them around to get on base more often in this league than in the NL. I can’t base it on anything other than a gut feeling so it’s weird for me, but I think he’s going to do really well for us this year.
BC - That is possible. I have always felt like right handed slap hitters do better in the dome than they deserve. With him everything depends on if his D is still top notch.
Gordo had a stroke a few years back. I have really come to love the guy, despite his limitations. He has the wrong guy on base often, and also, the wrong guy batting. Sometimes a player who is out of the game, suddenly reappears. So what? It’s just baseball. Enjoy Gordo. He’s precious.
Gladden, on the other hand, is is an annoying, obnoxious, opinionated individual. He’s a little like me. He really needs to go.
Gordo, is of course a legend. Neither Gladden or Coomy bugs me. I don’t understand peoples dislike of them. They are just a little goofy. But that is why they are there Gordo and Bremer play the straight man role.
Harris will be the starting 2nd baseman
Gomez
Mauer
Cuddyer
Morneau
Young
Kubel/Monroe
Lamb
Harris
Everett
Redmond, Punto, (monroe), Tolbert/Buscher
Hernandez
Bonser
Baker
Liriano
Slowey
Bass, Rincon, Crain, Reyes, Neshak, Guerrier, Nathan
………..
Blackburn, Humber, and Perkins will all be up at some point in time during the season.
Pridie, Morales, Tolbert/Buscher, and Macri will all make it to the major leagues as well this season.
BC,
You are absolutely correct that Everett will do much better in the AL 9th spot then he has in the NL 8th spot (the worst place to bat in MLB).
You have the reasons correct - nobody fears walking #8 ahead of the pitcher, so #8 gets filthy pitches to hit.
You don’t need your gut feeling - you can base it on logic.
Gardy says the position players will be set tomorrow. The pitchers will still be unsettled. The Twins will need to make 9 cuts before the season begins.
Here are the players I think the Twins will send out:
Pitching:
Blackburn
Daigle
Humber
Catchers:
Butera
Whiteside
Infield:
Buscher
Outfield:
Knott
Span
Pridie
I think everyone will be cut tomorrow, except for Blackburn and maybe Humber.
It’s easter so I think my Gut’s gotten more of a workout than my brain… so I might have just been confused. lol.
Zone Rating or Ultimate Zone Rating has been thoroughly discredited, in the minds of many.
Really. Well, I suppose “in the minds of many” OPS has been discredited as a measure of hitting prowess. UZR is the industry standard. Is it perfect? No. But until we can put RFID tags in balls and players’ gloves and set up a grid in a stadium to track ball velocity and trajectory relative to player positioning, it’s the best we will likely do.
I would be surprised if the Twins didn’t use UZR in addition to scouting reports. Why not have as much data as you can to insure that the scouts are reading things right? Everett, for example, is so smooth he sometimes is not rated as highly by scouts as his UZR numbers. Punto is the opposite. All his hustle distracts the scout from the fact that his reactions are not that quick and his footwork is often out of whack.
Craig may present some things as facts, but they are opinions. That said, I think there is more than a grain of truth about his comment on the 2B position. Punto is viable because he is a good glove, with good speed, despite being a lousy offensive player. In order for Harris to hold the 2B job (I think he gets the nod over Punto) he must hit appreciably better than Nicky. He really hasn’t so far this spring, and there is only one week left.
Regarding the roster, as much as I hate to view this, I think Craig has the players right. I believe, however, that somebody with some pop and versatility is out there to take over the spot that Tolbert would have. I think it is foolish to have Buscher, Tolbert, or Pridie to be considered as a top LH pinch-hitter–those guys are all too young and inexperienced to be even decent as pinch hitters. If all they want is infield depth, then I guess Tolbert will have to do. Kubel can and should get the majority of DH at-bats. While good rosters have a good pinch-hitter in reserve, the Twins don’t qualify for that at this point.
And I’m with you Gladden is worse than the guys from the White Sox who were actually voted to be the worst announcers in professional sports when it was hawk and whimpy.
Now now, let’s not get hasty. The Hawk alone is worse than anybody I’ve ever heard (and that’s counting the Duo of Buck and McCarver). I’ve never heard a more blantant homer, and the constant spouting of catchphrases….eck.
Even Dicknbert (for as much as people sometimes complain about them) don’t refer to the Twins as “we”. Nor do they have catchphrases that they force into the game. Yeah there’s the California math and “Is that a call?”, but those aren’t used at every opportunity (for example, “You can put it on the board” and “He gone.”)
Cmath,
“But until we can put RFID tags in balls and players’ gloves and set up a grid in a stadium to track ball velocity and trajectory relative to player positioning, it’s the best we will likely do.”
I agree.
IMO “it’s the best we will likely do.”.
My point is that the subjective judgement of experts (or ourselves if experts are unavailable) is superior to any existing fielding metric. Even with our biases, I put more faith in a consensus of scouts/field staffers who tell me that Punto is a good (bad?) fielder than I do in FA/UZR/whatever.
Offensive performance is much easier to measure and I do believe in those stats.
flatblade,
“In order for Harris to hold the 2B job, he must hit appreciably better than Nicky. He really hasn’t so far this spring, and there is only one week left.”
Harris is hitting almost 100 points higher than Punto (.238 to .139).
Is that not appreciably higher?
If ST is not convincing, how about 2007 regular season.
Harris .286 12-59
LNP .210 1-25
Punto is utility IF, Harris is the regular 2B and it isn’t even close.
flatblade,
You are right about our lack of a good LH pinch hitter when Kubel is the DH.
I would still pinch hit Monroe against RHP rather than watch LNP bat for himself.
After Monroe the PH are Livan, (definitely NOT young and inexperienced)
Redmond and Tolbert/Buscher.
If Livan pitches during interleague play, maybe he can drive if five runs on the days he gives up four.
Make that:
“maybe he can drive IN five runs on the days he gives up four.”
Finger failure.
I’d rather they be good during the whole game (Kubel the DH) than save Kubel for 1 chance to PH.
