Twins-Tribe: The Rubber Game
Posted on April 20th, 2008 – 12:30 PMBy La Velle
Another casual Sunday morning at the park as the Twins prepare to face Cleveland’s Paul Byrd, who was 4-0 against then last season.
Twins manager Ron Gardenhire expects Adam Everett to need at least a week of rehab for his shoulder tendinitis. He won’t hit or throw so he can focus on regaining the strength he’s lost in the shoulder.
Gardy thought about starting Matt Tolbert today but decided to give Brendan Harris another start at second after he played well there yesterday. The Twins are still trying to get their new players to buy into their defensive standards but Gardy praised Harris for how hard he’s worked on his defense since joining the club.
Mauer is getting a day off so Mike Redmond gets his third start of the season.
Justin Morneau asked Gardy for a DH day and got one. So Mike Lamb is at first.
A chunk of the pre-game was spent talking about defense, so Nick Punto’s name came up because he’s the focus of so much anger from fans. Punto was terrible at the plate last year and hits the ball in the air too much for someone with no power. But what can’t be denied is that he’s an excellent defensive player.
When it was mentioned how much Punto gets ripped by fans, Gardy replied: “That’s because he doesn’t help fantasy teams but he can help you win baseball games.”
Gardy, Twins players and media members were surprised by the news that Frank Thomas was released by the Blue Jays. Sounds like the Big Hurt’s mouth got him in trouble again.
Thomas must have really ticked off manager Jay Gibbons. I will contend that three weeks is not long enough to evaluate someone like Thomas before deciding to reduce his playing time.
Someone has to take a chance on the 39-year old future Hall of Famer, right? I initially thought that Thomas was placed on release waivers. But I just looked into this, and the Blue Jays are on the hook for the remainder of his 2008 salary while Thomas can work out a deal with any team. The belief is that Thomas’ agent will try to get something like a two-year deal.
Correction: Now I have been told that the Blue Jays officially designated Thomas for assignment, so they have ten days to trade him, send him down to the minors or release him. No one will trade for that contract or claim him off waivers, I’m guessing, so he will be released and then seek a deal elsewhere.
I’m not saying the Twins are interested. They’ve got DH candidates in Jason Kubel and Craig Monroe, especially when Michael Cuddyer returns from the DL.
Lineups
Cleveland (7-11): 1. Grady Sizemore, CF. 2. David Dellucci, LF. 3. Travis Hafner, DH. 4. Victor Martinez, C. 5. Jhonny Peralta, SS. 6. Ryan Garko, 1B. 7. Asdrubal Cabrera, 2B. 8. Franklin Gutierrez, RF. 9. Casey Blake, 3B. Pitching: Paul Byrd.
Twins (8-10): 1. Carlos Gomez, CF. 2. Brendan Harris, 2B. 3. Jason Kubel, RF. 4. Justin Morneau, 1B. 5. Delmon Young, LF. 6. Brian Buscher, 3B. 7. Mike Redmond, C. 8. Mike Lamb, 1B. 9. Nick Punto, SS. Pitching: Scott Baker.
149 Responses to "Twins-Tribe: The Rubber Game"
Wow, didn’t think Thomas would get released!
dick and Bert i have a Call Young gets his first Homerun of the season
i like Craig Monroe but i think Thomas can help out more
so i think we should sign Thomas
Gardy defending Punto. Shocker. I don’t want to get the blog going on Punto but these things are true IMO. A good defensive player. Will make highlight plays, but beyond that isn’t as great as Gardy will have you believe. Versatile on defensive, but with no stick is a utility player at best. Last year the Front Office didn’t give Gardy enough options, so I can understand Punto’s playing time. This year, even with Everett’s injuries there are enough players on the team that Punto’s role shouldn’t change. It has nothing to do with Fantasy Baseball, thanks gardy for talking down on us.
foolish to think that a twins team that is having so much trouble hitting and especially homeruns would have any interest in a guy that hit 26 hr and drove in just under 100 rbis…..i think you will see me in the batters box before you will see frank…
When it was mentioned how much Punto gets ripped by fans, Gardy replied: “That’s because he doesn’t help fantasy teams but he can help you win baseball games.”
Career Runs Created per Game for the current Twins batters:
Tolbert: 7.8
Mauer: 6.6
Morneau: 5.9
Cuddyer: 5.3
Lamb: 5.0
Kubel: 4.5
Harris: 4.5
Monroe: 4.4
Redmond: 4.4
Young: 4.3
Everett: 3.7
Punto: 3.6
As far as his defense goes, career numbers for all positions are
FP: Punto: .976, league: .972
RF: Punto: 3.13, league: 3.41
Also his VORP, every year in his career other than 2006 has been negative, meaning that whomever played instead of him in that position was more productive…
I am just tired of Gardenhire’s unsubstantiated and irresponsible comments, ripping fans like that. If he is last in team in career runs created and his defense is league average, how does he “help you win games” more than any other player?
makes me wonder what other value an old pro (hall of famer) like thomas would bring to the twins besides the ability to hit…his locker room leadership and knowledge could be unbelievable to a young team like the twins…anyone with me on that note…..
If Toronto is on the hook, take a chance!
LEN III-put word to Baker he would look good in the sleevless and red hats today! Gotta push some of those items by wearing them!
The Twins should look into Thomas. The only issue there might be with him is that he wants to play every day (this is the reason that Toronto is releasing him; there was a huge blow out between him and his manager the other day when he was not starting… nasty stuff). If the Twins get him he can be the everyday DH and sit on the #3 spot every day, which means that Kubel would be on the bench. Getting him will make the team better so they should do it.
The reason the fans hate punto is cause he cant hit. its not about fantasy stats, I know his defense is great but you have a team that cant score runs wouldnt tolbert be the best option? Why Ron Why?
Hopefully the twins won’t get dominated by Byrd today, like they have been in past years…
What a condescending statement by Gardy, as if his offensive lack of production is meaningless to the actual team. As if we are all stupid people that are below worth even considering. Gardy has a blind spot for Punto. People that watch every game, and then judge how well people play, are fairly unanimous in their statements that Punto isn’t all that great defensively.
Gardy can have a different opinion than me, but he doesn’t have to state that I’m stupid because of it, which is his implication.
Whatever, I don’t root for the Twins because of Gardy anyway.
good luck to buscher, heres wishing him luck on his return to the bigs…hope hes here to stay….
Thomas would be a nice addition, but I don’t see Gardy playing him over Kubel. I suppose that he could play against lefties, but he wants to be an everyday player. I doubt Smith will make an effort to sign him.
You are right Jason. Plus, what about the idea about guys actually earning starting spots? To me Tolbert has done that-yet Gardy’s Golden Boy LNP slides his way into the starting lineup too many times already in April.
Who knows if Tolbert will be as good a fielder as LNP? But we do know Tolbert so far offers a greater asset to the Twins-he can actually hit.
gotta get to byrd early also, or hes trouble
Well, not hitting or throwing for a week will be nothing new for Everett!! Am I right???
In regards to Punto today, from JoeC’s entry yesterday:
“Matt Tolbert fouled a ball off his left foot last night, and Gardenhire mentioned that as part of the reason he went with Nick Punto at shortstop”
So, the natural question with Punto in the lineup would be “Is Tolbert hurt worse than Gardy initially thought?”
T,
I doubt it. Tolbert pinch run yesterday so if he is fine to run the foot should be ok. Punto is in there because he is Gardy’s boy.
T,
But Tolbert was able to pinch run yesterday.
What a condescending statement by Gardy…
In some regards, he’s almost on to the problem with the fan base. Incredibly inconsistent with it’s complaints…or at least constantly complaining about one thing or another.
Span’s in the lineup, so people complain that he sucks and it should be Monroe. So then Monroe is in the lineup and people complain Monroe sucks.
Or Lamb struggles, and every hates when he’s lineup, so when the only other option is Punto people complain about that. Or heck, Punto could play a half inning in a game and people get all up in arms.
It’s a good thing Gardy doens’t listen to the fans, or else this lineup would never be able to get on any sort of steady pace.
I only caught the first inning yesterday. I was not aware of Tolbert’s pinch run.
Please trade Tolbert! So he may have a chance making it in the MLB.
Punto and Gardy deserve each other, that comment was terrible.
It’s a good thing Gardy doens’t listen to the fans
it’s not a matter of “listening to the fans”, it’s a matter of a. making managing decisions detrimental to the success of the team (like starting Punto and Span) and b. when he gets called for these decisions by the fans he gets condescending.
T, the fans may be inconsistent with a lot of things, but I would say the fans consistently hate Nick Punto
T: what does any of that have to do with Gardy’s statement and its implication that anyone that wants Punto out of the lineup knows nothing about baseball?
making managing decisions detrimental to the success of the team (like starting Punto and Span)
But that’s just it…people can’t agree what’s best for the team.
Punto can’t hit. Duh.
But as far as Span vs. Monroe. Span’s had the hotter bat since his call up. Monroe hasn’t done anything.
So starting Span (the hotter bat) is currently in the best interests in the team.
I should clarify, starting Span over Monroe is currently the better option.
But as far as Span vs. Monroe. Span’s had the hotter bat since his call up. Monroe hasn’t done anything.
Did you see the game yesterday?
Wow, judging by that line I missed a heck of an outting by Blackburn.
Did you see the game yesterday?
I thought I made that pretty clear earlier:
I only caught the first inning yesterday. I was not aware of Tolbert’s pinch run.
*psst* Harris…Lamb’s not as tall as Morneau.
Monroe’s numbers this year:
.240/.321/.360
Span’s:
.222/.300 /.222; with 2 very bad errors
We need a guy like Frank Thomas, who when he was benched for not hitting, decided to throw a hissy-fit and got released.
That is the kind of veteran leadership we’ve been missing this year.
If the younger guys use Thomas as a role model, they will cry like the commenters to this blog when the lineup is posted every day.
Then JoeC, LaVelle and Howard will have great stuff to post in their stories.
So then when Cuddy and Everett come back….Span goes back to Rochester and Everett goes home.
Punto can cover the infield, Buscher/Lamb have 3B.
That just leaves Slowey.
Harris having a bad inning.
It’s only 1 run. The bats just need to do something.
Well I’m glad Mauer gets the day game after a day game before an off day off. He’s run out a lot of grounders to second and definitely needs two full days off, especially with a right hander going.
“That’s because he doesn’t help fantasy teams but he can help you win baseball games.”
IMO that’s not a blast at fans, but just an acknowledgement of the “intangibles” Gardy thinks he sees in Punto.
“Intangibles” is a term that has been used as long as I remember for unmeasurable contributions to winning.
It covers things that a player supposedly instills in teammates, such as aggressiveness, toughness, guts, fearlessness, whatever.
Do intangibles exist?
Does Heaven and the Angels exist?
A more relevant question - Does Punto have intangibles?
I can’t answer any of those questions, but I have opinions.
And Gardy is not interested in any of my opinions - or yours.
Speaking of Hafner, why wasn’t he in the lineup Friday? I got to the game and was surprised to see him out.
Lefty/righty matchup?
Punto is a merely average defensive player who nearly barreled into two teammates in recent games. He occasionally makes flashy plays, but more often triple pumps his throws allowing runners to beat out hits. If fielding percentage is the criteria, maybe Punto looks fine, but so does Derek Jeter, the worst shortstop in baseball in terms of range. It annoys me when announcers praise Punto’s fielding, as I have never seen any data suggesting that Punto is a good defender. I looked up his range factor last year, and he was near the bottom of the list for 3B. On the other hand, Adam Everett, is the best defensive shortstop in baseball per objective measures like range factor, and I am not sure Twins fans understand this since he is not flashy and other players get hyped so much that we tune it out. I guess it is Gardenhire’s job to pretend that Punto deserves to be in the major leagues.
David, Everett may have good range…but as we’ve seen recently, his ability to get the ball to 1B is lacking.
Badly.
Like I said a while ago, we all figured Lamb or Young or Cuddy would get that first non-Morneau/Kubel homer..but it’d be a guy we’d never expect.
Not to mention he just got the run back his high throw cost.
BREAKING NEWS:
Punto sucks!!! put in Tolbert you idiot Gardy
Nice homer Brendan!
Wow. A third Twins player has a homer…only 19 games into the season.
Ironically the guy with some defensive issues today HITS a HR!
Wow!!!! A homerun by someone other than Morneau or Kubel….ITS A MIRACLE…whats the total now????? 9??????
David R.
Announcers are not the only ones who “praise Punto’s fielding”.
So do his teammates, his manager and his coaches. Whether they believe that praise is impossible to tell, but that is what they say publicly. It may be like talking about Joe Kapp’s quarterbacking skills (crippled duck spirals). If you like the guy, sometimes his skills look better to you than they look to others.
$33…for all you can eat?
Oh yeah, I could do that.
I’m sure Bill Smith is listening closely to Gardy about how Punto helps you wins games and locks him up long term before one of those big market teams steal him away!
I hope whoever used Frank Thomas and leadership in the same sentence was being sarcastic. He’s only in it for himself, as long as he gets his ab’s, he could care less about winning, he’s a clubhouse cancer the kind of guy you don’t want Young, Gomez and Tolbert to be around. Plus he will take ab’s away from Kubel. It is not a coincedence that the year the Sox won it all the “Big hurt” was hurt and wasn’t around to disrupt the team.
Was the Punto or Billy Butler, trying to steal that base in the 5th?
[…] Twins insider wrote an interesting post today on Twins-Tribe: The Rubber GameHere’s a quick excerptTwins-Tribe: The Rubber Game Posted on April 20th, 2008 – 12:30 PM By La Velle Another casual Sunday morning at the park as the Twins prepare to face Cleveland’s Paul Byrd, who was 4-0 against then last season. Twins manager Ron Gardenhire expects Adam Everett to need at least a week of rehab for his shoulder tendinitis. He won’t hit or throw so he can focus on regaining the strength he’s lost in the shoulder. Gardy thought about starting Matt Tolbert today but decided to give Brendan Harris […]
[…] Twins insider wrote an interesting post today on Twins-Tribe: The Rubber GameHere’s a quick excerptTwins-Tribe: The Rubber Game Posted on April 20th, 2008 – 12:30 PM By La Velle Another casual Sunday morning at the park as the Twins prepare to face Cleveland’s Paul Byrd, who was 4-0 against then last season. Twins manager Ron Gardenhire expects Adam Everett to need at least a week of rehab for his shoulder tendinitis. He won’t hit or throw so he can focus on regaining the strength he’s lost in the shoulder. Gardy thought about starting Matt Tolbert today but decided to give Brendan Harris […]
That one sliced away from the CFer.
Poor Twins…With 3 of their big 6 hitters not producing this year (Cuddy, Young, Lamb) they’re struggling for runs.
Looking like if Young and Liriano can produce, the Twins compete.
If not, they won’t.
Defensive “stats” are very over rated. I’ll just the players and coaches opinions over defensive stats any day. If the players and coaches say he is great defensively I will believe them over a computer program that says Adam Everette is the best SS our there.
Defensive “stats” are very over rated. I’ll take the players and coaches opinions over defensive stats any day. If the players and coaches say he is great defensively I will believe them over a computer program that says Adam Everette is the best SS our there.
Baker with another Santana type outing today.
Plus Baker got Santana-like support with 1 run.
Can Buscher throw overhand?
Great pitchers arm angle to handcuff Harris.
Nerdy scouts examine tapes and calculate the location and velocity of every hit ball for every major league game. If a player makes a play that other major leaguers do not make, they get a plus. If they do not make the play that others make, they get a minus. Adam Everett leads all shortstops for the time period of 2005-2007 by a wide margin. Everett is a plus 92, Jason Bartlet was second at a plus 45. If players and coaches say a certain player is great defensively, perhaps that is their job. I know for certain that Ron Gardenhire does not watch the tape of every play of every major league game. I do not know Nick Punto’s plus/minus as it was not listed as a leader or a trailer, but to be fair, I just found an evaluation of third basemen which ranked Punto fifth in 2007.
A fundamentals mess out there — Gomez can’t bunt, Punto slides head-first, Garko can’t stop and lean over the wall…..
And the crowd is fundamentally bored. Twins going after a win, RIGHT NOW!! And you can hear individual voices cause everything is so quiet.
Pinch hit Monroe for Kubel?
Why not. Try something Gardy.
Punto 2 for 3 batting over 300. Gas drops to .80cents/gal. Okay. two out of three ain’t bad.
Hmmm….Twins taking a little chance leaving Reyes in. He’s not really a multi-innings pitcher, and he pitched yesterday too.
Maybe they’re just plain afraid of the Neshek/Martinez matchup.
Martinez gets a single. Consider it a moral victory.
Peralta a better bunter than Gomez.
I know, “Duh”.
Monroe does NOT pinch-hit for Kubel even though Kubel is hitting .133 against LHP’s.
Its easier for Gardy to go with his gut, than to read splits charts quickly.
Score one for the charts!
Wow! You can’t teach THAT! Gomez hits the ground before catching it. Excellent glove control.
Thats a range check for Gomez.
Gomez might not be able to bunt, but he can catch. Dick was a little overcomplementary but it was a fine play.
Just imagine how the Twins would be owning this division right now if they had a hitting coach that knew his head from his ass!
And dare I say, Punto is one of the stars of this game with his glove?
Broken clock being right twice a day I think, but God bless him.
This team is doing so much better than I expected, but it also seems like they are hitting ever team at the right time too so thank God for good fortune.
Why pinch hit if you dont pinch run?
The reason that Punto gets ripped by so many fans is because so many fans are clueless. The casual baseball fan, or even the semi-serious baseball fan will never learn how valuable defense is. Since that’s Punto’s specialty he’ll only ever be respected by the die-hard fans who know enough about the game to truly respect him.
Steve,
Not to take away from defense, but do you really think the Twins’ defense has held this team back-whether from a winning season or in the playoffs?
Defense hasn’t held back the Twins, because they have played defense well recently.
Game MVP=Brendan Harris.
Two out of three from Cleveland.
That doesn’t happen often for the Twins.
Oh I agree sane. The hitting has been problem, most notably from 2002 on, even in winning years.
But some of us don’t have to be condescending when expressing an opinion.
Great job by Harris today. nice hard line drive hits.
Not a great hit by Morneau, but i will take it!! Nice Win
Kubel hung in very well against one of the tougher lefty relief pitchers. This team is going to deveop over the next few years. They have some really good building blocks.
“But some of us don’t have to be condescending when expressing an opinion.”
If you meant me, it was not intentional.
Odd season with the Cleveland and Detroit failings. Maybe players on those teams anointed themselves a bit too much. Still time for them to recover though.
But same for the Twins. Nothing from Mauer, Cuddy, Young, or Lamb today. But still doing okay overall this season, and better than I expected for this month.
Anybody watching Sport’s Science after Twin’s game? Sign that softball pitcher. She broke the measuring device and a 95 mph baseball didn’t!
And she’s hot.
Mudcat,
It’s Jenny Finch and we already signed her husband - Casey Daigle at AAA.
AND SHE IS HOT!!!!!
She should start a team called the Queen and Her Court. Anybody remember
the King? Used to pitch softball from second base and only had four fielders and beat every team he played.
Eddie Feighner was much uglier and had a much worse body then Jenny Finch.
How come nobody’s commenting on Sport’s Science? The topic with the fighters shouldn’t distract anybody………….
………………………BBL
Feighner had a catcher, a SS and a 1B.
Four man team.
i saw the carlson brothers of “slap shot” fame light up eddie feigner back in the late ’70s or early ’80s. the king and his court won — but that’s mainly because the carlsons got pulled from the game after the first inning.
“When it was mentioned how much Punto gets ripped by fans, Gardy replied: ‘That’s because he doesn’t help fantasy teams but he can help you win baseball games.’”
Way to tell it exactly as it is, Gardy. Too bad the old scouts and coaches can’t convey a better understanding of the game to more fans. Glad to see Gardy making the attempt. That statement was funny, also. HAhaha!
time has proved many of your theories to be right on the money, craig.
Neshak doesn’t help most fantasy teams win either, the fans love him. Fans don’t like Punto because he sucks and when Gardy says otherwise he insults our intelligence. The same way he insults our intelligence with other mediocre players he touts.
Punto is trash, and he’ll land right next to Ford in Japan or Tyner in AAA and help win games there next year. Two of Gardy’s other favorites that “win games”
Fans loved Al Newman too, much more than Punto, because he knew what he was and TK knew what he was and neither claimed otherwise or had to talk about how he “wins games.”
Punto’s status on the Twins roster is not one man’s (Gardy’s) decision.
The Twins FO staff obtained him, signed him to a increased salary contract, and discuss his value with the Field Staff.
If the consensus was “he sucks” or “he’s trash”, Gardy wouldn’t be able to overrule his assistants, his peers and his bosses. There are probably many Punto supporters and many Punto-bashers inside (as well as outside) the organization and likely many in both camps are experienced, professional baseball player evaluators.
A lot of you guys are as good at ripping Punto as you’re going to get - you don’t need to keep up the diligent practice schedule.
Punto did a good job filling a huge hole in 2006 (his 2006 gets graded on a curve because the hole he filled was THAT BIG).
He was lousy in 2007. The offense would’ve stunk in 2007 even if Nick Punto was somewhere else.
He’s not an everyday player - thus far in 2008, Gardy’s lineups have reflected that.
Reddog got his first hit of the year today. Harris hit the first HR by someone not named Morneau or Kubel. Young’s probably not hitting his weight; Lamb’s yet to start hitting.
There’s a whole lot more going on than just “Punto doesn’t hit.”
Romer- it was kinda hard for Cuddy and Mauer to be productive today sitting on the bench!! and if you were talking about them not doing much this season so far i would have to disagree. Mauer has been hitting very well lately and Cuddy has been hurt for most of this year so far so it would be unfair to say he wasn’t really producing.
Guys who play for Gardy(and the FO staf) regularly and prove to be so bad that no other team wants them, like Tyner and Ford, will get ripped by fans. Not for any other reason other than, they suck as MLB baseball players. Punto falls under this category.
It doesn’t go any deeper than that.
Just imagine how the Twins would be owning this division right now if they had a hitting coach that knew his head from his ass!
Or a bullpen that didn’t blow two game’s against Detroit…or a third against Chicago!
T,
after tonight’s game, the bullpen has a lower ERA than the starters. It was a matter of cold weather and next time that the Twins are playing in the cold will be in 2 weeks (and by then it won’t be that cold)
What baffles me right now, is whether the Twins will take on a future HOF who is a power right hander and would be perfect in the #3 hole and would not cost them anything… That move might put them over the top this year…
T
Not everything Gardy does is perfect. Fans here have the right to post disatisfaction with choices that he makes. The bullpen usage in Detroit was Gardy’s decision. He MUST bear some of responsibility. Allow fans to vent valid frustrations without feeling the need to defend Gardy at every turn. It gets pretty irritating reading your posts with phrases or sentances taken out of context, then italized and finally commented on.
I just read an interesting take on rube chat. What about moving Cuddyer back to 3rd and making Kubel the everyday RF? Then Thomas could be our everyday DH. I do think Cuddyer could handle the move much better than 2005 and I think he’d be willing to do it.
John Rambo,
I think that should happen and would make great sense and might actually take this team long ways. Only 2 problems are that:
a. Cuddy whines when he plays 3B; and
b. Gardy listens to those whines
its time that the front office makes a stance for this team
Santana Trade Rumors MLB Status:
Phillip Hughes 8.82 ERA
Ian Kennedy 9.64 ERA
Melky Cabrera .281 BA, 3 SB
Jon Lester 5.06 ERA
Clay Buchholtz 6.75 ERA
Jacoby Ellsbury .256 BA, 6 SB
Coco Crisp .325 BA, 2 SB
Carlos Gomez .244 BA, 9 SB
sane,
you gotta add the Blackburn stats to that, because if either of the Yankees pitchers or either of the Red Sox pitchers were obtained, he’d be in AAA 
That move might put them over the top this year…
The top being the Royals?
Jay Gibbons??
snepp,
the top being the division maybe more… they are already tied with the royals
thrylos98,
That’s very true.
However by Mothers Day, Hughes, Kennedy and Buchholtz might be in AAA and Blackburn will still be in MLB if their performances don’t reverse themselves.
sane,
if Hughes and Kennedy are in the minors, who would start for the Yankees? They dug themselves a very large hole with this and I so don’t feel sorry for them 
thrylos98,
The Yankees would revert to their old tricks and trade prospects for either high salaries (CC Sabathia?) or senior citizens. (Livan? or El Duque?)
BTW Fernando Martinez is hitting .246 at AA for the Mets.
JP, I’m not looking for people to stop complaining. I’m looking to try and discuss something different on any given day.
Like, you know…the game? Because yeah…Punto sucks. But seriously, his name only has to be in a post (about maybe his favorite pizza) and people are off to the races with the same tired comments.
And that leads every thread down the same cycle until everybody’s yelling at each other, and the game (regardless of win or loss) takes a back seat to the same yelling match.
Just like how every thread during the offseason turned into a Santana trade argument, every game thread turns into a Punto bash-fest. Regardless of if he’s in the lineup or not.
That’s my problem.
And as far as the italics go, I still don’t get why people feel the need to rip on that. For me, it’s a means of making sure a response I make is properly put in context. I’ve had times when I haven’t italicized, and the person I’m responding too makes a new comment…or 10 or so comments are made in between. This leads to misunderstandings. Lord knows there’s enough yelling around here without somebody thinking a post is directed at them when its not.
——–
The problem with signing Thomas is that he’d be platooning with Kubel. Kubel has hit well, and has like 3-4 homers right? To take him out is essentially like sitting Morneau. He’s one of your most consistent hitters, and also one of the few showing any pop at the moment.
That would displease Thomas. Leading to same problems he had in Toronto. I’m not saying that part would be bad. But I would worry that Thomas’s frustrations would lead to a lack of production.
And the other aspect….Cuddyer back to 3rd? Again, Cuddyer’s strength is his arm in RF. He was moved from 3B because he couldn’t play 3B. Yeah he didn’t like it, but would you like to play a position you were unable to play? Cuddyer also played 2B for a while. Should he be a candidate to play there as well?
When Cuddyer comes back, put him in RF and either send down Span or cut Monroe. When Everett comes back, either cut Everett or cut Punto.
The OF is Young, Gomez, Cuddyer. Buscher/Lamb, Tolbert, Harris, Morneau should be the main IF.
Kubel DH’s. Span/Monroe, Everett/Punto, Redmond and whoever of Lamb/Buscher isn’t starting can fill the bench (comparred to last year that isn’t a half bad bench).
But Cuddy @ 3B? Ish.
“like Tyner and Ford, will get ripped by fans. Not for any other reason other than, they suck as MLB baseball players. Punto falls under this category.”
Tyner and Ford were beloved rock stars compared to Punto. Tyner and Ford were more like Elvis and Jimmie Hendrix. Punto’s popularity is more like that of Charles Manson or Lee Harvey Oswald on this blog.
Punto=Hillary Clinton? ? ?
SAne — and Punto has started 6 games this season, and has a total of 20 ABs, and we still have to deal with statements about Gardy’s “manlove” for him being the only reason why he’s “getting so many starts”. It’s a bit much, isn’t it?
Punto could get 150 ABs all year, hit .300, and be a solid defensive specialist, and people would still whine. What are you going to do?
T - Today’s posts prove your point…only one person even mentions Baker’s gem.
By contrast, there are 34 posts mentioning Punto.
Obviously, then, Punto was a much more important piece of today’s game than was the superlative performance by the starting pitcher, which happened to continue a promising season by our young pitcher. (For those of you who might be sarcasm impaired, I will point out that, yes, I am being heavily sarcastic in this last paragraph!!)
Punto for MVP! ! !
Ya we should get Jay Gibbons. maybe he can hook Mauer up with some HGH!!
“only one person even mentions Baker’s gem. By contrast, there are 34 posts mentioning Punto.”
Discussing Baker’s gem requires thought.
Saying “Punto sucks” is the reflex action of a brain-fried crack-head.
I beg to differ on Cuddyer playing 3rd. I think he could do it. It’s not like Lamb is Mr. Gold Glove over there right now. Cuddyer was an infielder his whole minor league career. Here’s another idea. How about move Harris to 3rd, and Cuddyer to 2nd? Cuddyer played some 2B in 2004 and he did OK. Maybe Cuddy’s more comfortable at 2nd. If it makes the team better, I think Cuddy should do it.
[…] people who come to the Dome compared with those who don’t get out so much. I don’t buy Gardy’s contention that Punto “doesn’t help fantasy teams but he can help you win baseball games,” but […]
I would sign and play Bonds at DH before Thomas, sign and play Thomas at DH before Kubel, and only after Kubel, would I play Monroe. Hmmm… If we signed one of these guys (Bonds or Thomas) to play DH and Cuddy/outfield is healthy, I’m not sure where I’d put Kubel. I definitely want him playing too. First things first though. Sign one of those two, dump Monroe, and find SOMEplace to play Kubel. Don’t hate Monroe, but either one of these guys will provide more power than we’re (currently) getting from Monroe.
Of corse, I know the Twins WILLN’T sign Bonds, and PROBABLY willn’t sign Thomas, but I’m just wishing/dreaming.
Baker (MY pick to click (pitching category)) is lights out.
Byrd, in typical fashion, continues to have a 90% success rate against the Twins while only having a 10% success rate against EVERY other team… Wtf?
A REpost, as I was the last on the page and I doubt many of you saw this:
TK(2) says:
April 20th, 2008 at 5:07 am
…wow. Everyone should chill out a little bit. Every team (in any sport) deserves to be bashed at times, but if the Twins were a body, you guys just cut off the head and put it on a pike in the center of town and danced and sang at the sight of it. What I just read was brutal and relentless. Fire Gardy! Cut Punto! Eat Boof! Kill Varva! Geez. God knows I’ve b!tched to no end about the Twins many, many times, but I guess I just didn’t expect to get SO much of it here in one sitting. ANYway, pitching is solid- YES, this includes Boof- hitting is… not fine. But if I recall correctly, most to all of you said that Twins weren’t going to contend for this year. 2010! you cried. That’s our year! Now, all of the sudden the Twins are being competitive (granted, the Tigers and Indaians kinda suck so far into this MARATHON(!!!!!) season) and just because we’re not in first place, you guys are ready to burn the dome down (yes, with the Twins in it). We’re less than 20 games into a 162 game season. We could still win the division by 10 games or be in last by 40 games. Do any of you honestly expect the White Sox (or Royals for that matter) to win the division? Don’t even try to make anyone believe you on that one. That’s my little defense rant against many of the above posters.
And, just to clarify, YES, the Twins need more bats.
———————————-
*Could be extended to many posters in the past few days.
TK2, it may be easier to find a home for Kubel if they sign Thomas. But isn’t Bonds a lefty? Which would mean the role of “left handed DH” is filled and Kubel is a lot less likely to find a place to play.
But the Twins are trying to go young in the next few years to rebuild. This is why if Everett’s not 100% I’d like to see Tolbert get the starters nod. Now that Buscher’s here he should be given every chance to succeed.
Lamb can serve a role on the bench. And as much as everybody hates Punto, he can have the utility role in his last year with the Twins. Everett will have to go, Monroe or Span will have to go.
If they’re serious about committing to youth at this point, give the youth like Tolbert and Buscher every chance to prove they can do it before going out and getting somebody else.
Signing Bonds blocks Kubel, and wouldn’t be a long term solution anyway (so what do they do when Bonds is gone in a year or so). Same with Thomas, though he COULD platoon at DH with Kubel.
Leave Cuddyer in RF where his arm is a great asset. I could see a LOT of overthrows if he plays 2nd. And though Lamb isn’t the best fielder, why pull Cuddy out of his element when you’ve got a guy in Buscher that could play the part naturally?
GBG: There were actually two great pitching preformances this weekend.
Blackburn got his first win, on national TV no less, and Baker yesterday pitched a 1 run doozy.
And the thing about that one run…it wouldn’t have happened if Harris’s throw is on target to Lamb during that double play.
That’s why it was also nice to see Harris go deep shortly thereafter as a way of apologizing to Baker.
Harris had a great day at the plate…and like I’ve said jokingly has turned this offseason’s big trade from Garza/Young to Garza/Harris.
Um, a lot of the comments on Punto were actually about Gardy and his demeaning of fans, and they happened before the game. There were few comments during the game (probably had something to do with the weather actually being nice).
T: I agree with everything you said in your 9:44 post, once you started talking about the players and not about Punto conversation. No way Cuddy should move back to 3rd - frankly, he’s barely average offensively in the OF, why move him to 3rd where his defense is lacking, and he’d be below average offensively.
No to signing Thomas. Kubel is probably as good or better than him right now, and Thomas would be in a platoon here. They aren’t benching Cuddy when he returns, so it just makes not sense to get Thomas. They need a SS, 3B and Young to start hitting in LF. Clearly they could be better at 2B and CF also, though they’d be silly to make changes there right now. Harris is in his 2nd year in the majors (full time) and Gomez his first. They’ll struggle at times this year, but they should be out there right now.
“Cuddyer played some 2B in 2004 and he did OK.”
Cuddyer had a different body and was much quicker in 2004. 2B requires quickness rather than speed and Cuddyer has a little speed but NO quickness.
Harris is really going to help this lineup. Not so sure about his defense yet. If he makes either of those two plays in the second inning yesterday the Twins would have shutout Cleveland for the second straight game. But at least he made up for it with that home run and starting the 10th inning rally.
I know Cleveland is struggling but winning 2 out of 3 and holding them to one gift run in two games says a lot about our pitching and defense right now. We need to start hitting on this road trip. 13th again in runs scored and only 9 home runs.
ok tolbert is ROY if he gets the nod.. i think gardy doesnt want attention taken away from punto though
BONDS SUCKS!!
HE CAN’T HOLD KUBELS JOCK!!
THOMAS IS BETTER THAN MONROE BUT I DOUBT HE WANT TO GO SOME WHERE AND PLAY PART TIME!!
They need a SS, 3B and Young to start hitting in LF.
I can live with Tolbert and Buscher getting their shot this year. Buscher has a lot to prove, otherwise I’d say try and find something outside the org.
Harris has been hitting well. His defense is lacking, but I think that’ll come around. I said it during the game, but I wonder how much taller Morneau is than Lamb. Perhaps Harris’ throw doesn’t sail if that’s Justin covering 1B.
Play Tolbert everyday at short unless he actually hits worse than Everett (doubtful).
Buschers time will come……is it this year?????better start producing Mike Lamb!
Harris is good!
Chill on his D it will get better!
I’m sure Gardenhire know’s a thing or two about baseball. Why the ripping on him so much?
If you know more about the game and his players, why aren’t you the manager?
Punto is a competitor. Sure he needs some time in the cage, but each team needs guys who are willing to sacrifice their body to fire everyone up!
If Busher continues to hit, his time is NOW . I would love to see Lamb supplanted by a farmhand. Nothing wrong with having a player like Lamb on the bench, as a pinch-hitter and a replacement for MVP on his DH days.
Other than that, I really like this team as it is currently constructed.
Young WILL hit, he has proven it already. He is not a rookie coming into the league.
Gomez, well, I have high hopes for him. He has already shown that he has the speed to change a game. Now, if he gets the bunt down more consistently, he will prove to be a STEAL for Santana.
Harris, his defense is his liability, but it is still acceptable. His offense makes for a good overall package. Maybe, by the end of the season, Harris will either be firmly entrenched as our 2nd. baseman, or he will be supplanted, but either way, I am hopeful for that position too.
It will be a fun season. I fully expected a poor start to the season, and after the 1-3 start, I was getting down on them abit. Now, well, I gotta say, they are proving that youth can be a good thing.
I am going through a list of old Twins and I found out who Kubel reminds me of none other then Randy Bush
Me Too, I can live with Lamb on the bench this season. I don’t know if the Twins have a young guy that can back up 3B with some potential for pop.
I also like Lamb on the bench as he can be a backup to either Buscher or Morneau, wihle Punto (3B, SS, 2B, OF) can serve as a better emergency backup than Everett (SS).
An ability to play more positions opens up late inning PR/PH/defensive options. And it also leaves more combinations open on days when somebody needs a “rest” (such as Morneau yesterday)
Wasn’t it nice that they could have Morneau DH, take Lamb off 3B and still have a respectable bat in the lineup? 2 days ago it’d have been Punto @ 3B with Tolbert/Harris. Tolbert and Harris are hitting well, but Buscher brings more power potential than Punto.
A bench of Lamb, Monroe, Redmond, Punto is still better than Redmond, Cirillo, Tyner, Rodriquez.
Me too, Me Too,
Buscher may already be a better defensive 3B than Lamb, although neither is even average.
Buscher has a chance to improve.
I seriously doubt that Frank Thomas would consider coming here. He only wants to go where he can play every day. He wants numbers to boost his HOF credentials. The Twins can’t guarentee him at bats, especially with Kubel doing as well as he has.
Thomas will be a Yankee!!
shameless,
Replacing Matsui, Damon, Abreu, or Melky?
Frank Thomas isn’t going to the Yankees. My guess is the Mariners
Thomas can produce more runs than any of those guys sane
T, it would be a surprise if the Twins dump Everett (if he gets healthy) and go with Harris and Tolbert.
Tolbert made the team and has proven it wasn’t a fluke. They won’t send him down and keep Harris.
With the 12 man pitching staff, there’s no room for Harris —– unless they dump Everett and his $2M+ contract.
But you’re right, the Twins have to deal with the hole at 3B. And I agree that Lamb would be wonderful on the bench.
HE’S the guy, jimmy bee, that I want to remind me of Randy Bush.
And twinsfan32 (at 6:58 yesterday), I’m not worried about Mauer.
But I am worried about Young. He doesn’t look that athletic sometimes, the way his legs are hooked up or something. And his BA is now lower the Gomez’s
P.S. Does anyone know if Harris can play any outfield? Could he fill Monroe’s role as the 5th and barely used outfielder?
Monroe’s didn’t look very intense in his pinch hit appearance yesterday. He didn’t swing the bat once as he was warming up and approaching the plate and stepping into the batter’s box. He doesn’t look like a pinch hitter.
If Young remains in his slump, maybe they can give Monroe one last chance and start him in left for a few games. If that doesn’t work, then release him.
Then Punto could play the role of the 5th and barely used outfielder, and Harris can platoon at 3B.
romer, I really don’t think the Twins would drop Harris in order to keep Everett. It would fly in the face of the committment to youth they’re trying to go with this year.
Both he and Everett were signed with the idea that they’d be expendable if somebody in the minors showed promise.
Well, Tolbert and Buscher have that potential. So it’s time for those two to hold up their end.
Lamb can remain on the bench. Punto will fill the utility role better than Everett.
T,
“Both he and Everett were signed with the idea that they’d be expendable if somebody in the minors showed promise.”
How do you know what the Twins were thinking when Harris and Everett were added? Are you psychic?
