Twins-A’s: Frank Thomas, Carlos Gomez, Champions League Semis
Posted on April 24th, 2008 – 12:26 PMBy La Velle
Frank Thomas has signed with the Oakland A’s. This move doesn’t make sense to me because the A’s already have Mike Sweeney at DH and, judging by his at-bats the past two games, Sween-Dog has plenty of offense left in him.
Should the Twins have signed Sweeney (he’s making $500,000) instead of dealing for Craig Monroe (who’s making $3.82M)? I was told that Sweeney was in the picture right up until the Twins signed Monroe before the tender date. For flexibility, it’s better to have Monroe, who can play the outfield (although that hasn’t happened yet).
I was unable to get to Carlos Gomez before yesterday’s game. But here’s what he said after the game about not being in the starting lineup.
“I come here everyday and watch the lineup. In this game you don’t have anything (given to you).
“I know the manager say, `Carlos, you’re not in the lineup today. Don’t be like, `Uh-oh.’ ” I say, `You don’t have to tell me this. I’m on the team. I start the game, or I’ll be ready where you can use me later and you can use me to win the game with defense, with speed.”
“He said, `I’m the manager, I have to tell you first.’ I say, `Nah, Nah, not me. I’ll be ready. You don’t put me in the lineup. I’ll be ready.’ ”
On his slump: “The last three days, I feel good at the plate but it’s the game. That happens.”
Was on the phone with Joe C. this morning, talking about Frank Thomas and things, when he asked, “Is there going to be any scoring in these Champions League semifinals? There’s been only one legitimate goal scored so far.”
I missed yesterday’s match and can’t believe Ronaldo missed the penalty. I did catch Kuyt’s goal on Tuesday and Riise’s own goal. But there’s a great chance the second leg of the semis will be explosive because it will be do or die. And the Champions League final on May 21 is must-see TV.
The A’s are taking batting practice. And there’s Frank Thomas in white and green. Lineups to follow….
Sorry, was on the field for a while before the game. I han’t seen half the coaching staff with the two late deadline games, so I had to catch up on some things.
Mauer gets the day game after a night game off. Gardy said before the game that Kubel is going so good right now that he wants him in against lefties and righties. Mike Sweeney AND Thomas are in the A’s lineup. And watch out for Greg Smith. He’s supposed to have an excellent pickoff move.
Twins (10-11): 1. Gomez, CF. 2. Harris, 2B. 3. Kubel, RF. 4. Morneau, 1B. 5. Young, LF. 6. Monroe, DH. 7. Redmond, C. 8. Buscher, 3B. 9. Punto, SS. Pitching: Liriano.
Athletics (13-9): 1. Suzuki, C. 2. Ellis, 2B. 3. Sweeney. 1B. 4. Thomas, DH. 5. Brown, RF. 6. Crosby, SS. 7. Denorfia, LF. 8. Murphy, 3B. 9. Davis, CF. Pitching: Smith.
370 Responses to "Twins-A’s: Frank Thomas, Carlos Gomez, Champions League Semis"
For 500,000, it would be a good investment to never have to face Sweeney, wouldn’t it?
LEN3 nice job writing with an accent. I’m not sure if Carlos is just saying things he knows he should say or if this is really his attitude either way it shows he’s got a good head on his shoulders.
Where is the lineup?
Are the Twins really using Monroe’s flexibility? You could argue that Sweeney would be more valuable on defense because he can give Morneau a break every now and again rather than throwing Lamb out there. I will be shocked if Monroe plays more than 10 games in the OF this year. Plus the Twins have a lot of other players that can play OF. (Kubel, Span, Pridie, Punto).
bc
Lineups to follow….
i hate no t.v. games. well we get the 1/2 hour version tonite i guess. then again if they would have shown all the big plays from last nights game it would have taken all of 30 seconds not 30 minutes. lets hope the bats wake up and we take another series. win twins
Here’s hopen that the Twins post 3 runs in the first today so franchise can relax!!!
I agree, not signing Sweeney makes very little sense. For one consider the price he signed for. Secondly, who do the Twins have who can backup Morneau when he needs a day or two off? Lamb… are you kidding me? 2/3 or 3/4 of the old Sweeney is much, much better than the production you will get out of Lamb. If I was Bill Smith, you should have signed Sweeney and keep Span up with the big club as your platoon OF.
Injury time, off-sides … how come futball is the only sport that doesn’t change the rules over the years to improve the product on the field.
Oh, this is a baseball blog.
Gee we need power, and we’d rather not go after Frank Thomas, Barry Bonds, Sammy Sosa, Mike Piazza, or anyone that has some baggage, but we aren’t going to LEARN HOW TO HIT WITH VAVRA
VAVRA translated into english is inept. The SOB has done a lousy job, and needs to be fired. So if the twins refuse to fire him they need to bring in professional bats that know how to hit because the kids will not get better.
And there is no way in hell we should send Gomez down because that means we keep FLUSH in centerfield, and I won’t want to watch games that have Vavra, FLUSH, Punterrible, and possibly to borrow from Jim Rome Chris Everett batting in this lineup.
Lousy hitters, no potential, and a lousy hitting coach are not going to get this offense turned around.
The pitching has been fantastic, and if I am the Twins, I would seriously look at upping Anderson’s salary because if I were the GM of another team that is struggling, Rick Anderson would be number one on my list for the Manager Job. This guy is a guru. If the Twins had a hitting coach that could hold Anderson’s jock this team could be a playoff team and that’s scary because I’m still projecting 72 wins this season because of Vavra, and the young staff, but Anderson is a GOD. Vavra is a dog pile. I’m sorry I can’t be nicer. The man is cancer to hitters in the same manner than Dick Such was worse to pitchers than Tommy John Surgery. He killed careers, and Vavra and the Twins hitting philosophy as a whole are not fully developping hitters. Morneau was this guy being drafted, and Brian Harper Jr I mean Baby Jesus I mean Joe Mauer was a very good hitter coming in. Vavra must go. There isn’t any other option.
Maybe burn a few bats on the pitchers mound and toss a Joe-boo doll and pray for rain right now, but other than getting Vavra and something to wake up the BAT GODS this team is going to hit like a 3rd grade girls team.
Well I guess all of my thoughts on the LaVelle’s last post are for naught…
I still stand by my declaration: The Twins should’ve made a play for him…if it’s curious to LaVelle why the A’s signed him when they already have Mike Sweeney, I would simply refer him to Mike Sweeney’s playing record…usually it involves all of April, some of May, and September…enough said…even last night he hobbled around like Kirk Gibson in the 1988 World Series.
So the Twins, stubborn as they are, continue to do it ‘their way’, insisting they don’t need a guy who has over 500 career HRs and hit .277 with 26 HRs and 95 RBI last season…clearly he has a lot left in the tank. That’s absolutely incredible to me; they would rather go with a washed-up Craig Monroe than a washed-up Frank Thomas. Oh well, let’s hope our guys discovered how to hit overnight…
What are we in Europe? What’s with the soccer talk?
“This move doesn’t make sense to me because the A’s already have Mike Sweeney at DH”
Well when you account for one of them being horrible and the other not, it begins to make sense. If you’re confused, Thomas is the latter.
I don’t know where Thomas plays in MN.
They have a DH, if they move the DH to LF, where does Young play (unless you think he can play CF or should be sent down)?
The Twins need a 3b and SS for sure. They may need a CF. They have a tiny chance of needing a LF (I think Young will hit this year).
Cuddeyer is not going back to the infield. So, fo anyone that wanted Thomas, what other changes would you make?
LEN3 is a closet soccer fan, not that there’s anything wrong with that. Just keep it in the closet, LaVelle.
The mistake was trading for Monroe, who is a) terrible and b) clearly a fungible part and by virtue of a) and b) hideously overpaid.
Yeah!!! Don’t ask, Don’t tell
mike…I repeat, for the last time, he hit .277 with 26HR and 95 RBI last year in over 500 ABs….WHERE WOULDN’T HE PLAY IN MINNESOTA?
I’m sorry, in my book, that puts him ahead of Kubel, Young, and Cuddyer….he plays at DH and let the other three fight over the outfield…
I’m so sick of these Twins fans and organizational people acting like we’re too good to bring in a free agent to replace one of “our guys”
Man, Gomez’ comments regarding his slump make me wonder if he realizes what an easy out he is right now, and whether he’s willing to work harder to improve his plate discipline. Granted, we’re only 21 games into a season, where some all-star caliber players (Zimmerman, Cano, J.Guillen) have lower OBP’s than Carlos’ .247, but he’s clearly at opposing pitchers’ mercy. Rather than send him down now, I’d prefer to see Gardy drop him to the bottom of the order to take a little pressure off and let him work on it. If he honestly thinks it’s ‘just the game’ and isn’t willing to change his approach, he needs a stint in AAA ASAP for his own good.
Did you seriously just say that you don’t need Frank Thomas becuase you have Jason Kubel??? Ok, pass that, becuase you are high. Frank Thomas is better than any Twin that has been through the clubhouse in the same period he has played in, except for Kirby Puckett. Jason Kubel is not a whole lot better than letting the pitcher bat.
Oh, and I do really know how to spell “because”, just have a hard time typing it. hahahaha
louiev… Have you watch a baseball game since 1996?
Good points Jason but can we be sure Frank would have came here!!
Can we be sure that he still can produce better than Kubes!
Would he be willing to platoon?
We should have brought the big hurt in before the 2006 season! We passed on him he hit 39 HR’s in under 500 AB’s and ultimately ended our season by homering off Neshek in the play-offs!
We’re always a bat short….every year it’s the same thing!
No more Monroes, Whites, Batista’s please bring in Piazza now that Frank is gone.
A PROVEN RIGHT-HANDED DH PLEASE
They should have signed Sweeny and Monroe, and every two bit pitcher in the league that they make look like Cy Young.
Pohlad you cheap SOB!
Could the Twins trade Thomas (or Sweeney) at the trade deadline? That is where their value to the Twins would be at this point in their careers, and with where the Twins are in development.
the track record of the rochester coaches sending up hitters includes:
michael ryan, michael restovich, terry tiffee, alex prieto, rob bowen, lew ford, luis rodriquez, glenn williams, josh rabe, alexi casilla, garrett joens, tommy watkins, darnell mcdonald all spent some time a aaa before being called up this in the time since kubal came up, the last one to stick.
do you really want gomez to be another on this list of rochester call ups?
something is wrong in the system!!!
Actually, I never said don’t sign him. I said I don’t know where he plays, so I asked for your feedback.
Thanks for all of your well reasoned responses.
Next question:
How much better are the Twins if they upgrade from either Kubel or Cuddeyer to Thomas? That still leaves 5 holes in the lineup.
I agree that it is certainly possible that Thomas puts up better numbers than Kubel, and that it likely he puts up better numbers than Cuddeyer or Young, but does signing Thomas increment the team, or make it significantly better?
The problem this year (unlike 2006 when they should have signed him) is that the Twins are 4-5 bats short, and bringing in Thomas improves one of the places where they are ok or average (unless you bench Young, who is below average), but does not fix a hole.
“homering off Neshek”
Homered off of Crain…
“Pohlad you cheap SOB!”
How is spending $3.8 million instead of $500,000 cheap? Like you said though, I think that the big question is if Thomas is better than Jason Kubel at this point in his career. Count me in the “I don’t think so” crowd.
If I ever see Nick Punto in CF again, I am cancelling my season tickets.
You’re kidding, right, shameless? Look, we can’t be sure of anything except death and taxes…but I’ll take my chances with a guy who’s hit over 500 career HRs and had the year he had last year over how ’sure’ we can be that Kubel, Cuddyer, or Young, much less Monroe, will produce.
And as far as the argument about how do we know he would’ve come here….well, you never know that until you make a push for him and not one Twins writer / insider has said they ever made a serious push for him….now or back when he left the White Sox. That was a mistake, in my opinion.
Ya we probably are more than 1 bat short this year!
I guess I’m still hopeful that Lamb, Young, Mauer, and eventually Cuddy will make this offense better than it looks now.
You don’t, Seth? based on what….
Thomas ‘07:
.277 avg, 26 HR, 95 RBI
Kubel ‘07:
.273 avg., 16 HR, 65 RBI
Sure, Kubel had 100 fewer ABs, but don’t tell me, based on what we’ve seen out of Thomas’ career and his recent history, that you have anything greater than a ‘hunch’ that tells you Kubel will out-produce him this year.
Jason You’ve convinced me we should have at least fished for Thomas and we need to persue Piazza now…..even if we still can’t compete with cleveland I think we need proven veteran right handed hitting!!!
Bill Brasky, such a fan.
Make that 13 HR for Kubel in ‘07….my bad (adds to my point, though)
From what DnB were talking about last night, the A’s were already in talks with Thomas as early as Monday.
I wouldn’t be surprised if they were on the phone with Thomas and his agent the moment he hit the open market.
The Twins didn’t get Thomas, that is true. But did they even have a shot at him?
I think I remember the Twins trying to court Thomas and Thome at one point (not neccesarily at the same time). My understanding was one of the two wanted nothing to do with the Twins.
And guys, Sweeney? Please. He hits the snot outta Twins pitching, but he’d have been no different than another White/Monroe/Batista signing.
I will guarantee that Kubel will have a better year then Frank
And I stand by the fact that NO team is going to touch Bonds this year.
Not to mention the Twins problem is a lack of right-handed power…somebody to either hit before or after Morneau (which ever spot would be overall more beneficial)
nah, shameless, we don’t need him….he wouldn’t fit in our clubhouse or with our ‘way’ of doing things….besides, he might take away playing time from one of our young stars!
you guys are funny….and where do I go to get my money back at the end of the season, bc?
How do you want to measure who has a better season? Do you want to use OPS? RBI? HR’s? What?
Big Hurt had a nice career, but most baseball insiders think he’s done. As the only MLB player to talk to Mitchell and his crew, I doubt if he’s going to follow Bonds’ path of late career productivity. I like Kubel at DH against righties, and while I’d like to see an upgrade from Monroe against lefties, Thomas isn’t the answer.
Soccer is weird.
Well, let’s see, the Big Hurt had twice as many HRs and time-and-a-half the RBI as Kubel last season….they hit for about the same average…hmmm…
Look, I like Kubel…he’s been one of the guys that has kept our pathetic offense from sinking this team so far…but don’t tell me Frank Thomas wouldn’t help this team…don’t tell me we couldn’t clear away six different locker spaces, minimum, to make room for him…it’s not about money, it’s not about production, it’s about the Twins’ not wanting to admit they made a mistake by not going after him when he left Chicago (how nice it’s been for the Whities in the meanwhile that he hasn’t been in their division) and they don’t want to admit our offseason acquisitions this year might not be the best….
They should’ve swallowed some freakin pride and done the right thing and rolled a red carpet to him…
He’s done, Nordeast? Again, based on what??? He already has 3 HRs in 60 at-bats this year!!!!! I can think of about, ohh, 12 or so Twins who are jealous of that!
http://64.246.64.33/merge/tsnform.aspx?c=StarTribune&page=mlb/scores/live/lineup.aspx?gameid=21155
line ups.
Will we ever get the lineups?
I just posted the link to it silly.
Well, there you go….Big Hurt front and center….
I see no point in pursuing Thomas it’s not like he’s the missing piece of our championship puzzle. I would rather they give the AB’s to Kubel instead he will be around long after Thomas is gone.
tonight’s lineup
Gomez, CF
Harris, 2B
Kubel, RF
Morneau, 1B
Young, LF
Monroe, DH
Redmond, C
Buscher, 3B
Punto, SS
I think LaVelle is too busy watching soccer even Yahoo has the lineups already.
Thomas is batting clean up for the As
Suzuki, C
Ellis, 2B
Sweeney, M, 1B
Thomas, DH
Brown, E, RF
Crosby, SS
Denorfia, LF
Murphy, 3B
Davis, CF
wow you guys are missing the point….anything to protect precious Kubel, eh?
You’ve got three outfielders you like: Kubel, Cuddyer, Young….you also have, at this point, a mystery centerfielder (although Gardy was ready to put Cuddy there in the offseason, recall).
I don’t give a crap how the above situation sorts itself out, but the bottom line is if you throw Frank Thomas in at DH, he’s better than any of them in terms of production at the plate….check the numbers!
But once again, the Twins prove they don’t understand what a DH is…
No lamb = good move, Gardy! (Of course, he had to keep LNP in there)
Obviously Oakland felt Thomas had nothing left….they sign him and throw him in at clean-up right away!
Thank you Karlee
Karlee,
Thanks for the lineups. Nikolai is playing, so I know you are happy.
Jason aren’t you the least bit curious as to why the Blue Jays cut him? It’s not like they have an abundance of power either.
Just because Oakland put’s him in clean up doesn’t mean it’s a good idea.
They cut him because Jay Gibbons has an ego that even T.O. is jealous of!
Plus, management has his back.
Trust me, the A’s, of all teams, know what kind of impact he can make.
Having said all this, I hope Franchise strikes him out three times today, of course…but I still think it was foolish of the Twins, considering the state of their offense, not to make a push for him!
Yesm…I’ve been happy this past week it’s been a Nicolai-a-thon.
lol Karlee….the same Nicolai-a-thon we had last year that helped bury our offense?
Yes, truly a reason to rejoice….
Nicolai better not have another 0-fer or he’ll be back in the ‘Nicoli’ zone….
Sweeney and Thomas in the lineup today.
Poor poor Liriano.
But once again, the Twins prove they don’t understand what a DH is…
We didn’t know Thomas was avaliable until this weekend. We knew Oakland was going after Thomas as early as Monday.
From the sounds of things, Oakland was at his door with flowers before Minnesota even knew him and Toronto had broken up.
Meanwhile, we do learn that the Twins were looking at signing Sweeney over Monroe. However I would guess one of the concerns they had with Sweeney was injuries.
They kicked him off the team because he ate Rios’ new born kittens, you didn’t hear?
Jason last time I checked it wasn’t just Punto who was a big bag of suck, so let’s stop pushing him in a corner yelling at him like the red headed step child and give him a cookie for his efforts.
To sum up my argument, Jason….do we even know the whole story behind Thomas?
This whole thing with him Toronto and now Oakland went down in a matter of days. I’m sure the writers are going to try and track down where the Twins stood in Thomas…but until then let’s not act like the team is bunch of morons for not teleporting Thomas into a Twins uniform 30 seconds after he was cut from the Jays.
Congrats to Oakland, then. Maybe next time, we can be the one at someone’s door with flowers.
it was reported that the j’s felt he had slowed and he didn’t want to share ab’s. they are on the hook for over 8m for this yr does that sound like they would cut him if they felt he had anything left? time will tell.
i think the real issue is that monroe doesn’t appear to have been a good investment, just a hunch! kind of ties the hands of bs or he tied his own hands as it were.
How do you want to measure who has a better season? Do you want to use OPS? RBI? HR’s? What?
Most people here want to use RBI/runs because they either don’t realize there are better evaluation tools, are incapable of looking any deeper, or they’re simply too lazy.
Oh, I take absolutely no shame in arguing that the Twins were wrong for not aggressively pursuing Thomas…I think that’s more than a reasonable assumption, based on the team’s track record. Until it is reported otherwise, I have no problem making that assumption.
We KNOW they didn’t pursue him when he left Chicago, as Sox GM Ken Williams convinced Terry Ryan not to bother…
the egg ended up on our face on that one.
Or it could just be that runs are how you measure who wins, snepp….but that’s just a thought.
snepp,
It’s a waste of your time when dealing with non-elitists.
RBI’s, wins, and runs scored are all that matter in baseball.
Live it, learn it, love it.
I know it’s a basic stat, but…If I were the Twins, I sure as hell would want to stay away from not only his clubhouse presence, but also the ever so small .167 he’s batting.
Regarding Thomas here is what the Blue Jays site reported:
Through 16 games, Thomas was batting .167 with three home runs and 11 RBIs for the Blue Jays. Thomas had a similar start to last season, but he finished hitting .277 with a team-high 26 homers and 95 RBIs. With their offense struggling in the early going this year, patience wasn’t on the Blue Jays’ side this time around.
“This guy did lead our team in home runs and RBIs last year,” Ricciardi said. “But it’s just a situation where I don’t know if we have the luxury of waiting two to three months for someone to kick in, because we can’t let this league or this division get away from us.”
So Thomas was a slow starter last year.Better not count him out yet…we will see?
Trade for Sweeney!
Punto has no started 6 straight and 7 out of 8. Unacceptable.
Punto has now started 6 straight and 7 out of 8. Unacceptable.
Is it just me or does Oakland have the most annoying fans in Baseball? Watching the game last night was torture listening to their stupid whistles and trumpets or whatever the hell they have.
yesterday i asked lavelle if he would go to gardy and ask him why he thinks we are so prone to hitting these weak, worthless, effn, ground balls to ss, 2b and p ….i have never seen so many, anyways, i hope he will do that, and dont you think thats a fair ? that we could get an answer to??let me know…please lavelle .help us out here
Or it could just be that runs are how you measure who wins, snepp….but that’s just a thought.
Pretty typical short-sighted response, I expected nothing less.
im still not out of monroes camp yet…i think if gardy leaves him in and lets him hit, he will probably do fine…i think he is just adjusting to this team and playing so very little..its the regular guys that i worry about..guys that are getting 3-4 abs every game….lets hang on with monroe a bit and see what happens, provided gardy gives him a legit shot…..
You are so wrong. There are so many other statistics that tell the real story. For instance, you must factor in a hitter’s ability to move runners over, during day games that fall on an odd day after a full moon, when we are behind. And how about a hitter’s track record line-drive outs on artificial turf after the All-Star break. These are statistics that help you determine the real worth of a player.
‘his clubhouse presence’, The Mix?
What basis do you have to comment on his ‘clubhouse presence’…cause I can cite stats all afternoon…and I’ll roll with the 3 HR and 11 RBI all day at this point…he’s a career .302 hitter, folks. His batting avg. through 60 ABs is hardly a deal-breaker.
Isn’t Frank Thomas like, 120?
Thomas clogs up the bases, he is only useful if he hits a HR
I’m not going back into the old ‘what’s more important RBI or OBP debate..’
All I’ll say is you don’t get any points in baseball for getting to third base.
Thanks Columbo so i guess unlike the Blue Jays we have plenty of time to wait around for him to get hot since were tearing up the league with our offense already.
yeah, he’s horrible, Shawn in Binghamton….a career .302 hitter with over 500 HRs….who needs one of those.
Thomas clogs up the bases, he is only useful if he hits a HR
Dusty Baker is that you?
Thomas will hit a bomb today. you heard it here first.
All I’ll say is you don’t get any points in baseball for getting to third base.
You also don’t earn “points” in baseball.
Thanks Dusty…. I mean Shawn.
I hope not, Brasky, but I wouldn’t be surprised….we need Franchise to prove those who think he belongs in the minors wrong!
Killebrew has more career home runs than Thomas, but that doesn’t mean he should be the Twins’ DH this year.
I’m not going back into the old ‘what’s more important RBI or OBP debate..’
That good, it’ll save you further embarrassment.
If I felt like searching through the endless pile of articles on Frank Thomas just before a game I would.
However, I don’t. Search the news. He hasn’t been exactly a lighthouse (someone to look up to) over the years.
His batting avg through 60ABs is what matters right now. And for an offense that can’t seem to bat as it is….I don’t see the point of taking a risk on him when we’ve already got a DH batting .278 with 3HRs and 13RBI. It’s very simple risk management. One is younger, came up with the organization, is batting better, etc. etc.
last time I checked it wasn’t just Punto who was a big bag of suck…
For once you and I agree Karlee. This team has an overall problem with it’s offense. Punto is just one piece of that bigger problem.
It’s like looking at a busted down old Pinto and putting all the blame on the tires because they’re Firestone.
lol Erik, I’m aware…
but at third, you don’t get runs or points…i couldn’t really call it a run because it’s not a run unless you get home, so I called it a ‘point’…either way, the column on the scoreboard that matters most doesn’t change when a guy reaches third.
his career stats are not that relevant to this year. He is so slow now. He has power and if he wanted to be a part time DH/PH i’d want him, but not as a full time player. Your right though Jason, Frank of 93-94 was awesome.
i think the # of wins and which division you are in is what counts at the end of the year.
of course except in minny where “moral victories” seem to apply. that may only be sid however.
…and the other is a first-ballot HOF’er and the only one in this generation to do what he did without the aid of steroids…
but you’re right, we can’t dare impede Kubel’s HOF career.
Shawn–check the freakin numbers! Frank in ‘07 was awesome!
.277, 26 HR, 95 RBI….hello…why don’t people get this?
Thomas, Sweeney, Redmond —- all these guys run lame, if you call it running.
Redmond and Punto in the lineup today. lol
T you are going to hurt my feelings saying those things. Didn’t you see the screaming ground balls I hit? Hit one almost to the warning track and a couple bad calls by the ump?
Can we trade Mauer and then pick up Piazza as our catcher
Barca has to come through in the semis. If they can’t stop United, nobody will.
And in ‘06 he hit 39 bombs with 116 RBI….
I love how everyone just assumes that because he got into a pissing contest with his manager, he suddenly is over-the-hill and worthless. It’s classic Minnesota homerism at play.
Shawn–check the freakin numbers! Frank in ‘07 was awesome!
.277, 26 HR, 95 RBI….hello…why don’t people get this?
Yes, and Nick Punto was “awesome” in 2006.
He should be playing everyday for the Twins through the rest of his career because of his 2006 season.
You people are ridiculous.
“give him a cookie for his efforts.”
Karlee,
What are you saying, girl? Urban Slang? Don’t do that to me. I can’t keep my mind on baseball.
No one is trying to put Kubel in the Hall of Fame, but this is obviously a rebuilding phase for the Twins. Why would you want a past-his-prime Frank Thomas in place of Kubel? Give Kubel an entire year’s worth of at-bats and see what he can do At the end of the year, at-bats being equally, I bet Kubel has better numbers.
Erik, you are ridiculous…get a hold of yourself…your entire argument rests on his low batting average in 60 ABs so far this year….take a peek at the last two years….we’re talking about a 19-yr career here, not a one-hit-wonder like Punto was in 2006.
Relax man….dang.
Simple conversation.
Thomas was a great player, but I don’t see the point in bringing him in, when we’ve got a player hitting much better than he is right now anyway. Thomas is, in my opinion, more of a risk than Kubel is. I’m not saying Kubel is going to be a HOFer. It’s your opinion that we should’ve picked up Thomas, and that is duly noted, but there are just some out there that don’t feel like he’s the same player, and is in the twilight of his career.
Lets all focus on the real problem with the Twins. $6.50 beers at the dome. That’s ridiculous.
ehusky, ask this pitching staff, which has been getting burned by our lineup this year, who they would want in there? They deserve better.
Snepp,
Thanks for trying to talk sense into some of these guys and gals. Their desire to use certain stats (runs, RBI’s, AVG) instead of others (OPS, OBP, VORP, Etc.) is just a sign that they don’t understand what the “new” stats are. They can accuratly describe and define “old” stats, which is why they consistently use them in their arguments. Its not important that some of the newer stats are better indicators of player performance and team wins, its that they just don’t know much about them…and in turn say they are “elitist stats” and other garbage like that. Would be nice for them to do some research, learn about what the newer stats are, and realize they are better stats for baseball. Yet, people are afraid of what they don’t understand and seem unwilling to move forward.
lol same price as at The Local, Robert…but I hear ya.
Good call Robert!!
Punto couldn’t play on my company softball team. We’re not allowed to lead off, but Todd in Accounting who is our SS, at least knows that if you intend to pick off a baserunner at 2B, you need to be on the bag, not 10 feet behind it almost in the outfield grass like Punto has the last 2 nights. He is absolutely disgusting and it’s a crime that he gets AB’s in the big leagues while guys like Tolbert waste away on the bench.
The Twins are the only team in the AL with a sub .300 OBP (.297).
not signing sweeney when we had a chance was a major oversight, at that money, if he didnt pan out, there would be no big loss and easy to remove, so for all the good youve done bill s. - we have to take a point away from you for missing on that one…and even now if oakland would make him available i think we should make a plea for him-and when his playing days are over we can make him our hitting coach…(probably should do that now) player/coach
well, JT, I guess the morons at ESPN and Fox are senseless too because when they introduce a hitter I’m pretty sure they show us their avg., HR, and RBI and skip those other acrynoms…
Wow, Bonderman had 7 walks today in 4+ innings. Detroit is leading though.
Obviously the pitching staff wants to win games, but would Frank Thomas alone win games for this team? You’re crazy if you think he would make that kind of impact.
Erik, you are ridiculous…get a hold of yourself…your entire argument rests on his low batting average in 60 ABs so far this year….take a peek at the last two years….we’re talking about a 19-yr career here, not a one-hit-wonder like Punto was in 2006.
Like someone else said…
Why not have Harmon Killebrew DH for the Twins? Throughout his career, he hit more HR’s than Thomas.
To say that you’d rather have Thomas than Kubel is ridiculous…and makes you look like a complete fool.
Jason,
Beer is “only” $6.00 at The Local.
Just a question Jason. If you had your choice, which of the following two players would you sign?
Player A) .313, 12 HR, 53 RBI, 374 AB
Player B) .272, 20 HR, 75 RBI, 412 AB
Can we please package Kubel and Mauer for Mike Piazza
Well said JT, that’s a much more diplomatic take than anything I can muster on these blogs.
Yet, people are afraid of what they don’t understand and seem unwilling to move forward.
That’s human nature I’m afraid.
Go gomez home run he’s on fire now
Player B, T…is this a quiz?
Anybody watching the game?
Gomez opens the game with the bunting strategy. 6-pitch AB.
HOME-FRICKIN’-RUN FOR CARLOS!!!
Gomez…HR!?!?!?!??!
Frank Tomas #’s career 516 HR .302 AVG most homers in a year 43 and has hit over 30 HR a season in 9 of his 18 completed seasons.
Jason Kubel #’s career 26 HR and .266 AVG most HR ever in a year, 13.
Frank is a future HOF’er, Kubel wouldn’t even make the starting line up on many teams. Sure Frank is older and nearing the end of his career but along with still being able to play (however much or little) he is more of a draw than Kubel ever will be.
Gomez goes yard!
“Thanks for trying to talk sense into some of these guys and gals. Their desire to use certain stats (runs, RBI’s, AVG) instead of others (OPS, OBP, VORP, Etc.) is just a sign that they don’t understand what the “new” stats are. They can accuratly describe and define “old” stats, which is why they consistently use them in their arguments. Its not important that some of the newer stats are better indicators of player performance and team wins, its that they just don’t know much about them…and in turn say they are “elitist stats” and other garbage like that. Would be nice for them to do some research, learn about what the newer stats are, and realize they are better stats for baseball. Yet, people are afraid of what they don’t understand and seem unwilling to move forward.”
People think they are elitist stats quite simply because of comments like yours. I do know what the new stats are and how to use them. However, you don’t ALWAYS have to use them. Sometimes looking at avg. is enough.
ORLY Gomez? Home run ORLY?
can you believe Gomez’ homer?
Gomez hits HR
Beer at the local also tastes better, much better.
Yawn: what stats matter, punto sucks, the twins don’t have enough offense, the Tigers score at will.
I’m losing interest already and we are only 1/8 of the way through a season of talking here.
well, JT, I guess the morons at ESPN and Fox are senseless too
We’re talking about the ESPN and FOX that think the only two teams in baseball play in New York and Boston right?
The same ESPN and FOX that have such “experts” as Joe Buck, Tim McCarver, Joe Morgan, and Phil Kruk?
The same ESPN and FOX that declare a new player “The best ____ they’d ever seen!” on a daily basis?
The same ESPN and FOX that…you know what, I think I’ve made my point about the “experts” at FOX and ESPN.
They have their share of knowledgable people, but they’re scattered far between the deluge of catchphrase spewing talking heads.
SweetOne says:
April 24th, 2008 at 2:39 pm
Jason,
Beer is “only” $6.00 at The Local.
great looking bar with really really bland food
*note to self…Bench Gomez, get homeruns*
HR Gogo!!!
FSN North, too T…
In fact, pretty much anywhere you see baseball on TV, those are the stats they feature….but they must all be clueless, too.
ill be damned…ok everyone, lets not go crazy…but its a nice start for the kid…hopefully he can come out of whatever funk he was in…maybe sitting with gardy for a day put some ideas in his head…
Yeah, better send Go Go Down!
Woohoo nice job!
$7 with tip….better beer, though.
“Thanks for trying to talk sense into some of these guys and gals. Their desire to use certain stats (runs, RBI’s, AVG) instead of others (OPS, OBP, VORP, Etc.) is just a sign that they don’t understand what the “new” stats are. They can accuratly describe and define “old” stats, which is why they consistently use them in their arguments. Its not important that some of the newer stats are better indicators of player performance and team wins, its that they just don’t know much about them…and in turn say they are “elitist stats” and other garbage like that. Would be nice for them to do some research, learn about what the newer stats are, and realize they are better stats for baseball. Yet, people are afraid of what they don’t understand and seem unwilling to move forward.”
What a bunch of pompous rhetoric.
Craig. I’m serious just a cookie.
Chocolate chip.
White chocolate chip.
But he seems like a peanut butter cookie type of guy.
He likes sweets.
Makes him happy.
Hahaha.
The same ESPN and FOX that…you know what, I think I’ve made my point about the “experts” at FOX and ESPN.
They have their share of knowledgable people, but they’re scattered far between the deluge of catchphrase spewing talking heads.
T, you’re my new hero. Seriously.
The Local is Lousy. Brits Pub is by far superior
Jason,
I’ve read your posts today, so I’ll keep this short. Being someone with keen baseball sense, like yourself, I doubt anything I say will have any impact on your opinion. Nonetheless, what does the fact that ESPN and Fox use AVG, HR’s and RBI’s have anything to do with your argument? Are you suggesting that mass media outlets are the surest sign of what are the best indicators for baseball performance? Is it possible that they use the older stats because they know that the majority of the population watching their programming is unwilling to learn and understand “those other acrynoms…”? If you read Fox Sports and ESPN’s truly good baseball writers, you will see that they are now consistently using OBP, VORP, OPS more then the older stats, which is a better indicator of their value then what is shown on national broadcasts of baseball games. Still, I doubt you care much for dialogue on this matter and are convinced that anyone willing to re-think how we count and analyze the millions of events that take place in a baseball game are stupid. “Your” stats were developed in the 1920’s, I’m glad we haven’t learned anything since then….hmmmmmm.
Of course at the Local you get cougars and soccer on TV, at the Dome you get baseball….I’ll pay the $6.50, I guess, lol.
Time to get that bum Gomez out of here
What a bunch of pompous rhetoric.
Oh come on Craig, we’ve had this discussion before.
Can you believe Gomez homered?
Why not, he has driven a lot of balls really hard this year. He has power. Finally got one to fly, good for him. He will be fine with time.
So… about sending Gogomez to the minors…
I love cougars
and they love me
No comment, JT. I never once wanted to engage in that debate…we all know where I stand…I don’t see what that has to do with how painfully obvious it is that Frank Thomas would improve our lineup….but even that is a moot point at this juncture.
When is Everrett coming back
We need tailgating options at the new stadium.
That must be our first leadoff homerun in like 3 years huh?
Yeah, Gomez sucks. What’s that? Lead-off home run. Well, he got lucky. Six-pitch at bat? That pitcher sucks. Three up three down after that? Nevermind. I love Gomez! He should lead of everyday!
Naw, you can get baseball at The Local as well. And the “scenery” is outstanding too.
Plus, isn’t Billy Beane the king of the OBP…and he’s the one that brought the Hurt back to town right away…
RBI’s are a stat of circumstance. If you have two hitters with identical EVERYTHING, the guy that hits in front of the other will have more RBI’s simply because the other guy will have nobody on base by the time he gets to the plate.
Homeruns are important if a player can also hit for a good enoug average. Because he can hit 80 homeruns in a season, but it won’t do the team any good if that’s the only 80 hits he gets all season.
I love the fact that I put some thought into a response and try to be charitable in my writing…and I get accused of being pompous and elitist. I don’t have high expectations for blogging, especially when everyone can remain anoymous. But man, try to offer some insight and invite dialogue…and I get run through the ringer. Good times.
It is, SweetOne….you must be in your 40s or 50s….I think they would still put a major soccer game on instead of baseball…lol.
yeah, I forgot to add, you are paying $6.50 for a BUD LIGHT at the dome, now that is just wrong. For the price of 10 of those you could buy a keg of the stuff and go tailgating.
Not a good start for Liriano.
I fail to believe in these “terrific bullpen sessions” that these pitches seem to have according to Rick Anderson and co.
its funny… all it takes is one hit by gomez and no one is talking about how he should be sent down…
cmathewson — great post.
T
It’s not Phil Kruk, it’s JOHN Kruk.
Not that I disagree
over/under on walks for Liriano today?
over/under on walks for Liriano today?
We’ll start at 6.
T, I would take *at least* 80 RBIs and 80 runs. I think that would help the team tremendously
I don’t know if anyone saw but Masterson had a pretty good debut for the Red Sox today.
6 IP
2 Hits
1 ER
4 BB
4 K
95 pitches
He was rumored to be part of the Johan trade talks.
If RBIs are a stat of circumstance, T, why is it the best players tend to always have the most of them? (again, I’m trying hard not to engage in this debate…I’ll stop…Liriano gives up another hit)
Just to see what it’s like on the other side of the fence, I’m going to put a negative spin on everything for the rest of the day…
*ahem*
Gomez hit a homer? Oh GREAT! Now he’s going to think it’s okay to go out there and flail at anything because he managed to put one over.
And what will Vavra do? Probably twiddle his thumbs and whittle something.
….
Boy this is easy!
I’m still in my 30’s. I was just their about a month ago for a b-day party. They had the NCAA basketball tourney on and the also had the Gophers’ hockey game on.
Here we go….
The Second Coming of Frank. Fans are rioting as he steps to the plate…….
Can we trade Mauer and then acquire Mike Piazza. On a side note the local has great scenary but cra_ py as He_ _ food. Try Brits Pub
LOL Sweet…so that was the scenery you were referring to? NCAA and Gopher hockey?
JT-
Sorry man, that’s just the vibe I caught from it. If that wasn’t your intention, then I take it back…but your well reasoned post certainly seemed like you were acting above everyone.
might as well walk him now, Frankie.
A’s radio voice: “one of the greatest combinations of power and patience in baseball”
He wasn’t talking about Jason Kubel.
T says:
April 24th, 2008 at 2:52 pm
Just to see what it’s like on the other side of the fence, I’m going to put a negative spin on everything for the rest of the day…
*ahem*
Me to T
Oh look here comes damaged goods Liriano to give up 16 walks and 3 HR’s today
Another BB.
I don’t see Liriano getting to 5 innings today.
Jason, if your definition of “best” is RBI, then it is a circular argument.
If your definition of best is something else, then it is simple. Managers stack their best hitters next to each other, the ones that hit after the others are on base get RBI because they get hits.
And, best players? So the best leadoff hitters of all time aren’t among the best hitters? Most leadoff hitters in the NL don’t get RBI (because no one is on base in front of them), but they are still great hitters.
Jason…I thought you didn’t want to talk about it!!Hahaha.
But yes, you are correct. I think Thomas would have been a solid pick-up for the Twins, 2 years ago…and even now.
No that wasn’t the scenery that I was referring to.
2-1 A’s on Brown single.
mother fucker
frankie looks good so far?
Folks, Rick Anderson came out to the mound and it looked like he made some pointed comments to Liriano.
Then, of course, Emil Brown hits the first pitch to left for a two-run single. A’s lead 2-1.
They need to send down Liriano once Slowey comes back.
Ugh.
wow…get Bass warmed up, quick.
Just one mans opinion but I believe any future talk about who should be sent to th minors should start and end with Liriano.
been talking about sending the wrong guy down all day!
La Velle,
Regardless of how Frankie does today, does he go down when Slowey is ready? It seems like his leash is getting shorter and shorter.
Send him down…now.
Karlee says:
April 24th, 2008 at 2:57 pm
They need to send down Liriano once Slowey comes back.
Ugh.
NO SEND THEM BOTH DOWN AND BRING UP MULVEY
3 walks are you kidding me…
3-1 A’s
Brian Bass is warming up….
wow… 3-1?
I’m just in shock as to how horrid he’s doing. What the hell is going on.
Man, Liriano is struggling. He just does not look ready for the big leagues.
And what the hell is LNP doing in the lineup, AGAIN!?! How many strike threes does he have to stand and watch with the bat on his shoulder before Gardy gets a clue? How bad can these compromising photos be that LNP has of Gardy?
“Oh come on Craig, we’ve had this discussion before.”
I don’t care if people disagree about the importance of various baseball statistics. What bothers me is the attempt to disrespect people, because they don’t fall into quick lockstep with the most recent mind change and mumblings of the great baseball guru.
There are some brilliant men in the game of baseball who just happen to, for the most part, ignore the nitwit and his fellow travelers.
Bass begins to warm.
He better buckle down or this game will be over after this inning with our offense!
CRAP
It’s not Phil Kruk, it’s JOHN Kruk.
Sorry, had a Jon Miller moment…
If RBIs are a stat of circumstance, T, why is it the best players tend to always have the most of them?
A good hitter is what: Somebody who can hit for a good average right? And somebody who hits with a good average is going to find it more likely that they’ll get a hit with a runner on base right?
Let’s look at RBI’s this way…
Player A) .300, 20 HR, 100 RBI.
Player B) .300, 20 HR, 40 RBI.
By that alone, somebody might say that Player A was the better hitter. But then you have to consider, what if Player B is in the lineup behind Player A? Or they’re in different lineups, but Player A has a high OBP guy in front of him, while poor Player B is in a lineup behind a couple of hackers…
When a hitter comes to the plate, what’s on base is what’s on base. Even David Ortiz or Barry Bonds in their prime are/were unable to manifest baserunners during their ABs.
Seriously, we need to bench Punto before this gets out of hand.
*end sarcasm*
Liriano might need to go down 
Anyone else ready to jump on the “you don’t try to rehab in the majors” bandwagon yet?
bc twins fan- absolutely no call for dropping the MF here.Grow up.
97 on that last fastball?
Gotta love Go-Bot. He works his arse off and is a high energy guy. Francisco is struggling but he’ll be back to form by mid-season.
im afraid this francisco experiment should be happening on the backfields in fort meyers…..hes not ready-send him back and lets get a healthy arm up here..who are we kidding….its not fair to the healthy players who would like to win these games…i thought all along they said they would never hurry him…well..????
5-1 A’s, two out
Bringing up Liriano in the first place was an experiment. He didn’t show he was ready in ST or in his minor league starts.
Anyone else think thats the game?
jeez, so what is Liriano’s WHIP so far? like 15?
“absolutely no call for dropping the MF here.Grow up.”
Also, why are we so surprised that Liriano is struggling?? This is not unusual for a guy coming back from Tommy John.
stop this madness gardy…
When banjo-hitting Rajai Davis gets a hit, it’s time to come out.
And that’s what’s happening now. Liriano out after 2/3 of an inning. Here’s Brian Bass.
Liriano chased in the first….5-1 A’s…
And he’s finished.
I would bet that what we just saw was his last start with the Twins for quite some time.
Doug Munson. GFYS!!! Is that better?
Send him back to FM/A Ball. Keep pitching him in warm weather. Assign someone to keep him in shape.
Captain America says:
April 24th, 2008 at 3:01 pm
Gotta love Go-Bot. He works his arse off and is a high energy guy. Francisco is struggling but he’ll be back to form by mid-season.
romer says:
April 24th, 2008 at 3:02 pm
Bringing up Liriano in the first place was an experiment. He didn’t show he was ready in ST or in his minor league starts.
ERIC GAGNE KERRY WOOD MARK PRIOR LIRIANO
Coach, when I point to you out there that means that I am ready to come out. Coach, Coach, coach, I am scared, please get out of here coach I am pointing, get me out.
this davis guy was cut by the giants? how bad is that? base hit!
hope punto has his rbi shoes on today!
Seth, I agree with you, I am not surprised, I am just surprised with probably many others that they are letting him struggle at the MLB level.
Well I gotta admit I was on-board with keeping Liriano on the big club, but Blyleven and others who have called for him to stay in the minors until he’s proven ready were absolutely correct….good thing the game is early
No kidding, Jason? 97?
6-1 A’s when will it end????????
Guess when your AAA manager says he isn’t ready, you should listen to your baseball people. Otherwise, why trust them to lead AAA?
Thankfully this game isn’t televised, I wouldn’t want my eyes to start bleeding along with my ears.
bc twins fan- keep showing us all how brillant you are!!
That’s what the A’s radio voice said, but he sounded surprised…it was just on one pitch…
“Anyone else think thats the game?” Yep. I wish they would prove me wrong. But with our offensive “firepower,” I just don’t see it happening.
Boy, Gardy has some splainin’ to do with his roster moves and line-up decisons this year so far. His 8 year honeymoon is over.
I don´t know how many of you guys are actually watching. I am and it seriously is plain ugly. He was miles off the plate with most of his pitches and if not for Redmond there would have been about 3 wild pitches in there as well.
… and just to think… all because they signed Frank Thomas!!!
That’s what the A’s radio voice said, but he sounded surprised…it was just on one pitch…
Pitch F/X only had Liriano with one pitch over 91 MPH, and that was at 92.
Thanks, MartinP, for the report. Any info on his velocity?
The slim silver lining is his arm is healed, and he has decent stuff.
Kay,
Yep it’s over. Twins’ pop gun offense is no match for those mighty A’s.
We don’t need Sweeny or Thomas, we’ve got overpaid Monroe!
Liriano heads back to Rochester or Ft. Myers after this one. Not preety at all. Bullpen’s going to be taxed today. Need a quality start from Blackburn tomorrow.
i hope that puts the writing on the wall for gardy…i like gardy alot but sometimes his patience with players is way too much, imo ….just send him back and let him work things out and if hes not back til next year, thats ok too, but i would bet that by midseason or after the allstar game, maybe hed be ready to come back…time will tell and he has plenty of that, as hes still very young….
Bill Brasky,
did you see the article that came out, Gardy said Sunday Liriano was brought up basically because they needed to babysit him..he was not in shape..
and the Tigers pull out another win, slowly but surely moving up the ladder…
*sighs*
If only we could produce hits.
Oh well.
At least he’s throwing pain free, wasn’t that the mantra here after his first start.
at least we won’t get shut out today.
nice buscher!
“At least he’s throwing pain free, wasn’t that the mantra here after his first start.”
It was… but at some point, there needs to be better control, and if it isn’t happening, that thought needs to be altered.
What’s the excuse for Punto being in the line-up every day now?
This is going to be a long day.
“Also, why are we so surprised that Liriano is struggling?? This is not unusual for a guy coming back from Tommy John.”
Agreed. He will likely struggle during much of the year. Hopefully, he has some good games and then finishes strong.
Go LNP! Base - er, bunt hit!
romer - don´t know more than you about the velocity. I´m getting the A´s radio audio feed along with the video. It doesn´t even have the scoreboard on the top of the screen.
Go LNP! Base - er, bunt hit! Go-gomez too! Here come the Twins!
Can Frankie get a direct flight from Oakland to Rochester,or will he have to transfer in Chicago?
That will get LNP another 6 straight starts.
Bass the fireman. How long do you think he can go today?
what would be wrong with bunting with 2 on and no out…..damn, damn gardy…our favorite play double play
Why do people keep repeating that this is how people come back from this surgery?? It isn’t 1975, people come back stronger than this after a year and a half off! It is the new mechanics that are the problem, not the injury. He’s healthy, they’ve repeated it a million times.
What’s funny is to listen to rubes who drank the Kool-Aid, convinced that everything was fine, Liriano was as healthy and strong as he was in 2006. I know, many people were more skeptical, like me, but there are fools who actually bought every line the Twins sold about how great he looked, how well he was coming back, and left no margin for error in his triumphant return. Fools!
Cool, Gomez with a HR and a bunt single his first 2 AB’s.
Did Liriano pitch today?
I think it is great when Howard Sinker rips on a guy then they produce in the next game. Suck it Howard
Bass has 32 pitches already. Good till the 7th max. Then probably Crain/Rincon.
Liriano has been a mess, being physically out of shape, etc., and he can’t transport his good bullpens onto the field.
He’s not taking to the Twins reserved approach. Just let Liriano be Liriano. Bert is right — go to the minors and stretch it out down there. Get the confidence back.
I’m not sure if you can classify what Liriano did as “pitching.” Stinking up the joint, that’s a fair assessment.
Bass looks good, seems to know what he wants to do. It also helps to have the whole A´s lineup bat righthanded.
Hurry up hurry up and jump ship.
Was gone for 30 min….no more runs?
jimmy bee, you okay?
Wow, look at that….
Lets send Go-Go down because he was on a slump.
Now all of a sudden the day off has helped and everybody will change their minds.
by the way, Sweeney looks absolutely horrible in the field. He gets out of the way of every ball hit towards him and lets Ellis handle them.
what would tom kelly do ???
Kubel almost runs into Gomez in the outfield.
Also, I offically say that Liriano needs more work…
I was all for him coming up and getting a look. But after three games, it’s clear that he needs to work on his control. Maybe keep him down until the second half.
Mulvey should get a chance to come up and get a couple of starts. Im sure he won’t do any worse than Liriano has been so far this year.
romer just busy at work today. trying to find time to chat.
What did Kubel do to get charged with an error?
Kubel almost run over Gomez… they were both going for the ball, Kubel did not move away and the ball went in and out of his glove (kinda like the Span play in the dome). Monroe would be no worse out there…
I’d say Slowey should just replace him and give Bass that one other start before Slowey is ready…
barf …… i’m done
{You could argue that Sweeney would be more valuable on defense because he can give Morneau a break every now and again rather than throwing Lamb out there.}
But you can’t argue it very well. Sweeney has played, what, a half-dozen games at first in the past three seasons? And poorly. In ‘05 and ‘06, first was Lamb’s primary position. So you aren’t exactly “throwing” Lamb out there.
this is what the team needs and is much better than Joe “Big Daddy” Vavra
look how oakland is supporting their rookie pitcher….thats how this game is supposed to be played…send liriano out, bring up mulvey and let him have a shot
Bass composes some chin music…
8 to 1. how embarrassing. well i figured that before they season we would be about a .500 team and i guess i was just about right. maybe alittle lower than .500 this year
a sweep at Texas would help heal this wound….
Buscher making a play to replace Mike Had a Little Lamb…
8-2 now.
Still, the Twins don’t really do well against pitchers they’ve never faced, do they?
The Twins live and die on their starting pitching.
That’s why I’m being a little hypercritical of Livan, and Boof too. Livan’s last 2 starts haven’t been rosy.
does the Kool-Aid taste bitter today?
Don’t we have a lot of days off coming up. Skip Cisco’s spot until Slowey is ready.
Buscher making a play to replace Mike Had a Little Lamb
Buscher had a really bad error and a rookie mistake going to second instead of tagging the runner in front of him… He still has ways to go.
Boof isn’t terrible, but has he dominated in a start yet this season? He’s a poor man’s Silva.
And who would have thought the smoke and mirrors that were a 3-0 L. Hernandez would be revealed?
Me, that’s who.
Home run Dale Murphy!
Thomas is the weak link in that line up.
There’s a shock.
Maybe Oaktown ought to give Carl Everett a try.
You know you’re having a bad day when Donnie Murphy goes yard on you.
…and Rajai Davis follows it with a triple.
And why did we bring up Liriano up so fast??? After 1 start in the minors, the coach was quoted as saying “He’s not ready to go up to the majors, but that is not my decisions”. And they brought him up. Too early. Now he’s a disaster. Confidence shattered. Punto has started 6 straight games. Gomez is flailing all over. Total pandomonium is breaking out in Minnesota.
PS - Punto sux and is a cancer to the team. He oozes loser. He’s the Lew Ford of the infield.
AJ Pesh
According to this story, this is why Liriano was brought up..
LEN, thanks for the plug on real football as played with the feet. And yes, you may as well talk Champions League because I think it’s gonna be a long baseball season. As much as I hate to admit it.
“Maybe Oaktown ought to give Carl Everett a try.”
Maybe the twins should give Carl Everett a try
“Alex P Keaton is that your dad impersonating Howard Sinker”
Funkytown, thanks for the read.
I think the whole situation is a disaster. Put him in the minors and leave him there. If he doesn’t want to put in the work, so be it. Time to move on. Why make the entire team and fans suffer for it? Either we are rebuilding or we’re not. If we are, get Punto the hell out of the line-up and get Tolbert at-bats. If we are trying to win, get Punto the hell out of the line-up and get Harris/Lamb/Buscher at-bats.
Anybody know how Humber or Mulvey are looking in AAA?
AJ Pesh - Mulvey is doing great but Humber not so great
Forgive me if someone has mentioned this before, but I would like to see a feature on this website much like the one they have at the Chicago Tribune, where an employee watches the game and blogs about it so that us nerds at work can sort of picture what’s happening. Thanks for listening, dweebs.
punto may have to pitch today…might as well…save whatevers left of the bp….
these games sure do suck…its so obvious that we have hitting problems, but you dont hear about anyone doing anything about it..it doesnt get talked about of course….thats why i want lavelle to stick his nose inside that place and see whats going on and whats being said….
Bass not all that impressive today either, anyone know how Perkins is pitching lately? I sy Boof needs to move to the pen, Liriano back to the minors and Slowey and Mulvey up to the bigs.
LNP, Double Play.
“You know you’re having a bad day when Donnie Murphy goes yard on you.”
Twice!
Isn’t that just like LNP to ground into a double play, nice rally killer Nicky!
liriano i believe was brought up because hes our saviour, supposedly….the second coming of santana and with santana gone we need to sell tickets, and that my friends was the biggest reason to bring the man up before his time…our annointed allstar and the need to sell seats…..this is a business and thats it…this man is no more ready for the majors than i am and when your AAA says so, its quite obvious why they would against cliburns advice….not very smart mr twins…..now find us a hitting coach and lets go win some games….we are getting embarrassed on the field and my loyalty to gardy for the first time in all these years is really falling apart
“Bass not all that impressive today either, anyone know how Perkins is pitching lately?”
Bass did fine for 3.1 innings, but he hit a wall in a hurry.
Perkins has been horrible at rochester. No control.
“we are getting embarrassed on the field”
I didn’t know that any of the players or coaches were reading and commenting on these blogs during the game!
I’m sure Bass was rushed in rather hastily as well. He is the least of our problems at this point. Might even say a pleasant surprise.
seth …and your point is??
Seth, I am nursing a sore arm right now so I can blog freely.
I don’t know about others, but I know I’m not on the field. I’m not embarrassed personally. That’s a pretty strong word. Why embarrassed? Embarrassed by what?
seth…as i see it, the twins hitting is truly embarrassing, whether they are personally embarrassed themselves, i dont know i cant speak for them, but i know i can feel embarrassed as a fan….is there something wrong with that? what am i missing….strong word??? hmmm, pretty mild for this blog isnt it?
No team that starts Nick Punto six days a week–while leaving guys like Matt Tolbert and Brian Buscher on the bench–is serious about winning.
In the offseason, Billy Smith went out on a limb to acquire more offensive players so that we DID NOT have to play Punto every day. Now, Gardy just can’t help himself. No one is going to tell Gardy how to manage. It’s his team; he’s the BOSS!
And, if he keeps this up, he might not make it through the season. He made a terrible call on Liriano. He’s making a terrible call on the Tolbert-Punto situation for no reason other than pride (Tolbert IS a better offensive AND defensive SS than Punto, especially laterally!), and the verdict is still out on a couple of other guys, like Boof and Gomez.
While people are bound to say it will never happen, if this keeps up, I can see Billy axing Gardy. He hasn’t even offered the guy a contract for next year, as far as I know.
Billy went out and got a group of exciting players. Now, if they don’t perform as a team and can’t hit or pitch or field, the manager needs to take blame. He was always the first guy in line to pat himself on the back when he won a division title with TK’s team and style of play. Now it’s time he manages without a safety net or “small market” excuses or the likes.
Gardy has always been vastly overrated as a manager. His 6-15 playoff record indicates as much. He runs a good clubhouse; he makes a lot of boneheaded personnel decisions in the name of “favorites”; he creates his own warped “logic” when making those decisions.
Adios, already.
well said lala….very well
Mulvey should get a chance to come up and get a couple of starts. Im sure he won’t do any worse than Liriano has been so far this year.
They’ll probably send Liriano down to make room for Cuddy. With the off days, they can get by with a four-man staff for a while. When they need a fifth starter, I think Slowey’s in line ahead of Mulvey.
Wow, it was 1-0 when I left work, and I get home from the gym and it’s 11-2.
Ouch. Liriano got shelled. Put this in the loss column for the pitching staff today.
No team that starts Nick Punto six days a week–while leaving guys like Matt Tolbert and Brian Buscher on the bench–is serious about winning.
You saw the score today right? The fact that it was 6-1 before the Twins even got to bat for a second time, right?
On the plus side, it’s nice to see the mighty Thomas is 0-3 on the day.
Lamb or Punto at 3B
Tolbert or Everett SS
Harris at 2B
Morneau at !B
Who do we have better than Punto in the twins organization at 3B? I’m including hitting too.
“Billy went out and got a group of exciting players. Now, if they don’t perform as a team and can’t hit or pitch or field, the manager needs to take blame.”
Lala72, so the last two years when Ryan signed the washouts (Ponson, Castro, etc. etc.), it was the manager’s fault when these guys didn’t perform?
Lamb and Everett (and Young) are exciting players?
Today wasn’t a hitting embarrassment. Yesterday was. They weren’t ready for Gaudin….inadequate scouting probably.
Liriano doesn’t play for another 5 days at the soonest. So he goes down when Cuddyer comes back.
Re: Mulvey
He is not in the 40 man roster. For him to come up, someone needs to be designated/traded, which I don’t see happening… Who is on the 40 man roster in the minors as far as pitchers? Here:
Julio DePaula
Philip Humber
Bobby Korecky
Jose Mijares
Glen Perkins
and Oswardo Sosa, too
There are 38 guys on the 40-man, so they don’t have to designate anyone. Also, they still have yet to put Mijares on the 60-day DL. They can always do that retroactive to whenever if they need another spot.
Let me get this straight T. You think Punto should be a starter or be in the lineup enough where he does start 6 games in a row?
I don’t dislike Punto. I don’t blame him for being in the line up. And yes you are correct Punto was not the reason we lost today. But that doesn’t mean that as a fan, if I don’t think Punto should play everyday, that I shouldn’t post a comment pointing out my disatisfaction with starting 6 games in a row. You are the ultimate company yes-man. Its to the point I can stop reading your posts and probably should.
dazzle mentioned the dl for liriano…that was interesting ..at least to rochester for and indefinate amount of time…maybe not even til next year…i think they have now been trying to rush him back, with wishful thinking instead of looking at things as they really are…well 2/3 inning will have to make them look….
Did anybody else notice that the Twins only scored 2 runs?
on top of lirianos poor showing, the twins had another miserable day at the plate against a rookie pitcher…its not like we are being shut down by cy young winners, as it doesnt matter who we face, we cant score runs….its a real problem …huh gardy???
You think Punto should be a starter or be in the lineup enough where he does start 6 games in a row?
What I’m trying to figure out is why we’re talking about the offense when our pitching just got shelled.
That’s the problem I have this year. Everybody’s so focused on the hitting, or Punto, or Vavra that they fail to see bigger issues.
Yeah…the offense only got two runs, but Liriano got shelled.
Yeah, the offense only got two runs in it’s Sunday win against Cleveland…but Baker pitched a doozy!
I’m about as board of the whining about the offense as I was getting bored about Santana talks this winter.
You are the ultimate company yes-man.
No, I’m a Twins fan looking to talk about the Twins. And last I checked this is a Twins blog…not a “Let’s whine about Punto 24/7″ message board.
When every game thread gets pulled into the same two topics (Vavra + Punto) it’s a problem.
Exactly, mj1 - even if Liriano was halfway decent the Twins still would have lost because of their impotent offense.
back to 2 games under .500…..damn
Did anybody else notice that the Twins only scored 2 runs?
I’m more concerned that Liriano, who was once booked to be Santana 2, has been struggling, and got walloped today.
I was one of the people who felt with some extra time in the minors he’d settle down. Unfortunately that’s not been the case.
I’m also worried that Monroe is turning into a Rondell White type player. He had a breakout game on Tuesday, but overall hasn’t done anything to give me hope that he’s done as opposed to being in a slump.
I’d like to see them cut ties with Monroe, admit defeat, and get Pridie up here. This is supposed to be rebuilding, and they’ve got a guy like Monroe eating up ABs.
I’d rather see a young guy with some upside struggle as opposed to a “vet” struggle who’s already shown signs it may be over.
t- aside from today, twins pitching for the most part has been wonderful, actually surprisingly good…if the hitting had been equally as good, this team would be leading this division…hands down…..so the big storyline from today should be the twins lack of offense and of course, what are they going to do about liriano–send him back to the minors and lets get on with it…find a way to fix this damn anemic hitting
And FTR: this loss is mostly on the pitching for just getting wasted before the team could even try to do anything…but any game that’s 11-2 is an overall failure. Like the 9-1 failure. Nobody did anything.
Liriano was terrible. But don’t let that blind you to the fact that the offense was also terrible.
Nah, mj1, they got 9 hits today —- in a hopeless game after the Francisco shock.
Liriano looks dangerously overmatched
And the the fact that the Twins only scored to runs is irrelevant. It’s a whole different situation for players when they are at the plate and their down 1 run or down 9 runs. They’ll take the at-bats differently so today’s loss is all on Liriano
I hope they promote Slowey back up or a AAA pitcher to and send Liriano down. It’s not fair to the rest of the team to have all these bad outings
monroe is not an old man…give him time…he will be just fine….hes not anything at all like rondell white….let him adjust to this team and dh …he has not had alot of consecutive games to get any abs—this guy will hit, that you can count on, i will be anything…
if the hitting had been equally as good, this team would be leading this division…hands down…..
And I can point to three or four games where a better bullpen or starting performance would’ve been equally helpful.
The offense is struggling, but the pitching has let some important leads slip away as well.
The team is pretty much sitting right where I expected (I was guessing they’d be like 11-11 at the moment…as I thought they’d split against LAA)
And why is that? Because the hitting has struggled when the pitching’s been good…and the pitching has had troubles at times when the hitting ahs been there.
And then there are days like today when NOBODY did anything to help.
i think its time our leaders M&M get a bit serious and start leading this bunch…show some leadership, get some hits and energize this team…maybe cuddy coming back will help, but the big boys are going to have to really lead this team, and i hope they are up to it…i have some doubts, im sorry to say……
hes not anything at all like rondell white….let him adjust to this team and dh …
He wasn’t brought in to get consecutive ABs. He was brought in to platoon. If he has to get ABs in 5 straight games to get a hit in one of them then he’s of no use to the team.
And FTR: I do have complaints about this team…and I voice them where appropriate.
But the difference is I choose to talk about other things Twins-related as opposed to forcing a conversation to always be what about what I want to complain about.
span is gone..cuddy back
i’d rather let Mulvey get a chance to start instead of Slowey. just to see how good he is.
The pitching hasn’t been perfect, but when has it ever been?
However, the pitching continues to be stronger than the hitting for the Twins. As I said before-why do the Twins pretty much always struggle against pitchers they haven’t seen before? I can understand looking foolish the 1st or maybe the 2nd time through the order, but c’mon! Professional hitters should be able to make adjustments to the pitcher.
Yes, Liriano was awful. But the bats could only scratch out to measly runs to not even make an “effort” to get back in the game?
The pitching hasn’t been perfect, but when has it ever been?
However, the pitching continues to be stronger than the hitting for the Twins. As I said before-why do the Twins pretty much always struggle against pitchers they haven’t seen before? I can understand looking foolish the 1st or maybe the 2nd time through the order, but c’mon! Professional hitters should be able to make adjustments to the pitcher.
Yes, Liriano was awful. But the bats could only scratch out 2 measly runs to not even make an “effort” to get back in the game?
Anoher great example today of why the hell is Liriano pitching in the majors at this point of his comeback? And the excuse that the major league staff needs to monitor his off day workouts is a slap in the face to the rest of the coaches and trainers in the Twins minor league system. With two off days next week, it will be interesting to see WHEN and WHERE he pitches next?
I still think this lineup has potential but the whole approach has to change. We had one walk in the entire Oakland series with Redmond walked on 5 pitches today in the 7th. The next batter Buscher flied out on the first pitch in the next at bat! Last night, 1st and 3rd with Huston Street pitching and already one walk in the 9th, Kubel hits the first pitch for a weak flyout out left and game is over. The Oakland announcers even said today you could count on one hand the number of 3-ball counts Twins hitters had in the series. Vavra had better get these guys thinking and showing some patience at the plate or he should be fired.
JOE AND LEN3 these questions should be asked in Texas and if Gardy replies “were working hard” he should have a bowling ball dropped on his foot. (LOL)
“i think its time our leaders M&M get a bit serious and start leading this bunch”
Now you’re talking, mj1. Cause the Twins will still have 5 decent starters without Francisco.
And Gomez and Young and even Redmond show encouraging signs. And let’s see how Cuddy does.
And I’m optimistic about Lamb too. He’s done defensively what we pretty much wanted. And Gardy’s been pushing him. Thought he would have had a day off before now. Let’s see him respond with a big Texas series.
T,
I mentioned it a couple weeks ago: The pitching (other than Liriano) has struggled when the weather was cold. Now that’s a thing of the past
The hitting has struggled in 80% of the games and Gardy has made suspect decisions in half of those. That’s what really is wrong.
Frank Thomas is a potential hall of famer who last year knocked in 95 runs after a 114 RBI season. Mike Sweeney is a potential good guy when he retires. And right now Sweeney doesnt have much powerand doesn’t knock in many runs, either. Check the numbers; it’s not difficult
I am not sure why it’s hard to understand the A’s taking a run with Thomas. Lack of baseball knowledge it seems.
I’ve always been amazed that AL teams have a spot in the lineup specifically for someone who can ONLY HIT, yet the Twins always manage to bat someone there who is .230 with a terrible OBP and SLUG. Even though Sweeney or Thomas may be aging and not as effective as before, name ONE Twins full-time DH who has been better than them in the last 10 years? (Just as a reminder, David Ortiz was NOT good when he was with the Twins. Shows you what a good, mechanics-based hitting coach can get you!!)
Honestly I am looking forward to Euro 2008 way more then Twins 2008.
By the time Euro Cup rolls around the Twins are going to be in full tilt future mode. Span will be back with the team playing somewhere. Heck Cuddy could be at third. Lamb will probably be bought out, no wait Glenn Taylor doesn’t own this club yet. Shoot even if he did we didn’t sign Lamb to a long enough ridiculous enough deal but who knows maybe we could still extend him-cause that would probably help his confidence.
I think Barca’s backline might be a little long in the tooth. They have Messi and he seems to be able to make up for anything. I’d love to see Henry go back to Old Trafford and pick-up a brace if not a hat-trick. I see Rooney, Tevez, Ronaldo, Nani, Anderson, Giggs, Scholes and I just don’t think Barca will be able to weather that storm. Maybe they can pull a 1-1 draw and move-on due to away goals or something fluky like that.
Its got to be Chelsea’s game to lose. Lampard might be out due to his mother’s death, understandably-so. That just opens up a spot for Obi Mikel to play with Essien and Makalala so it probably doesn’t hurt their midfield that much. Unless Riise scores a dramatic goal he’s got to be playing somewhere next season no way around it. Too many bone-headed plays this year.
How is soccer not more compelling then the Twins current AAAA roster? I know the M & M brothers are solid, I dig Harris, Young needs to start showing something, Gomez and Span need seasoning (hnece AAAA) God knows what we are doing on the left side of the infield when Matt T isn’t playing-not that he’s the real deal for sure answer either though. We’ve got “promise” in the rotation and we’ve got some sure-fire studs in the bullpen but you can’t look at this roster with out rose-colored glasses and tell me straight-faced that the Twins roster is even two players away from an honest pennant run.
Man U over Chelsea in Russia while Abromonivich has to watch his team get crushed on the plastic pitch by 2 goals.
