Twins-Tigers: Batting ninth, position nine….
Posted on June 30th, 2008 – 3:28 PMBy La Velle
The lineups haven’t been released yet, but I was told that Carlos Gomez remains in the leadoff spot while Denard Span, who was called up on Sunday to replace the injured Michael Cuddyer, is batting ninth.
I’m a little surprised that Twins manager Ron Gardenhire didn’t bat Span leadoff and drop Gomez to ninth. We’re a ways away from his pre-game presser, so I’m guessing at this point that Gardy doesn’t want to switch things up too much if he has to. And, if Span gets on base, Gomez could get one more fastball to hit. Span-Gomez-Casilla, however, is still a great relay team.
Mauer, Morneau and Kubel are batting 3-4-5. Bobby Seay and Casey Fossum are the Tigers’ left-handed relievers.
5:39 Update: Gardy said that Gomez has batted leadoff all season and didn’t want to move him from that spot with things going so well right now. He knows Gomez isn’t a prototypical leadoff hitter but, “when he goes to the plate in the first inning, I don’t look away.”
As for the three lefties, the manager said he’ll take his chances against lefty relievers with Mauer, Morneau and Kubel. I’m guessing that Craig Monroe will start instead of Kubel tomorrow against lefty Nate Robertston.
Why?
Kubel told me a couple weeks ago that Robertson gives him more trouble than any lefty in the league. I looked it up, and he’s right: Kubel is 0 for 11 with 5 K’s against ol’ Nate.
Tigers (41-40): 1. Edgar Renteria, SS. 2. Placido Polanco, 2B. 3. Carlos Guillen, 3B. 4. Miguel Cabrera, 1B. 5. Marcus Thames, LF. 6. Gary Sheffield, DH. 7. Ivan Rodriguez, C. 8. Ryan Raburn, RF. 9. Curtis Granderson, CF. Pitching: Armando Galarraga.
Twins (45-37): 1. Carlos Gomez, CF. 2. Alexi Casilla, 2B. 3. Joe Mauer. C. 4. Justin Morneau, 1B. 5. Jason Kubel, DH. 6. Delmon Young, LF. 7. Brian Buscher, 3B. 8. Brendan Harris, SS. 9. Denard Span, RF. Pitching: Glen Perkins.
402 Responses to "Twins-Tigers: Batting ninth, position nine…."
I’d prefer (no biggie though)
8 Span
9Harris
Let Harris play some hit and run, get Span to 2B. Gomez remains the top threat with RISP.
Go Tigers!
La Velle,
No big deal but you have the Twins 41-40 playing the Twins 45-37.
A relay team is right i like all that speed let’s hope they can all click tonight. I’m happy that we wont have to see Ordonez this series.
Sounds like a win-win for the Twins.
I have always thought Casilla and Gomez should switch spots in the line up! Casilla does a much better working the count and at least has a chance at walking! Go Go seems to be alergic to walking and addicted to swinging at balls in the dirt! Either way I like them both and am happy to have them in the lineup on a nightly basis!
With Mags out of the Tigers lineup and the pitching matchups favoring the Twins this should be a good three game set. Both teams are doing very well as of late.
just had a 10 gm winning streak lost and won and we need to re-do the whole lineup?
give span some time to get his feet wet he has all of 31 ml ab’s. after we have a few bad games make a change at that time. don’t need to fix what ain’t broken until it is.
Gotta go with Gobble on that one…the strikeouts are annoying from Go-go, but I wouldn’t change it up at this point…and if anything, I’d put Casilla at lead-off.
Note to Perkins. Dominate the inside corner like last time you pitched against the Kitty’s and let get a W.
Agreed. No need to put him a pressure position right away. Let him earn the leadoff spot.
So, what’s Gardy going to do against lefties now?
He can’t go Mauer/Morneau/Kubel all the time, can he? Can’t really move Delmon up to the 5 hole.
I think Casilla should be batting lead off for a couple of reasons.
1. As has been stated, has a higher OBP than Gomez.
2. With a speedy Casilla on base in front of Gomez it’s possible Gomez sees more fastballs because balls in the dirt give Casilla a good chance at a stolen base.
3. Pitchers may be more likely to give Gomez fastballs with Mauer behind him.
4. Gives top of the line-up a more natural balance S-R-L.
Gomez can’t bat 2nd. It won’t happen. He is too much of a free swinger. He is leadoff or 9th.
correct, Toby…
LaVelle…any thoughts on the 3 lefties in a row thing? What are Gardy’s thoughts?
It is odd, considering we wouldn’t really blink if we had three righties in a row…plus, this lineup now has up to five lefties if you count Casilla…
imo in another yr (10) gomez will be hitting 3rd. not unlike kirby it will take a few years to settle down and his power should improve as he gets a better idea of the strike zone. of course kirby never saw a pitch he didn’t like and i’m not comparing the 2.
yeah, I agree that Gomez isn’t a #2 hitter. In fact, while reading JDs comment, it made me actually think that Gomez might be better as the #3 hitter, between Mauer and Morneau. He’d get some fastballs. Mauer could take pitches to allow Casilla steal opportunities.
however, if Gomez is batting before Morneau, I don’t want him stealing too often. I like Morneau agressive at the plate.
JD,
2. With a speedy Casilla on base in front of Gomez it’s possible Gomez sees more fastballs because balls in the dirt give Casilla a good chance at a stolen base.
3. Pitchers may be more likely to give Gomez fastballs with Mauer behind him.
Exactly, these are a couple of things that Casilla has said about hitting ahead of Mauer and in front of Gomez. He gives some of the credit of those things to his success.
Of course that should say BEHIND Gomez.
Actually, part of me would like to see Delmon hit 3rd for that very same reason, to get more fastballs and strikes.
Actually, since he’s doing so much better than Gomez at taking walks this year, maybe Delmon should lead off… OK, that’s a stretch… but if that’s a stretch, then it does illustrate that Gomez at leadoff is a stretch.
Speaking of really bad leadoff hitter options, has anyone else looked at the numbers for Dan Gladden? Horrible on-base percentages, not really much speed. Not really sure why we thought he was good.
lead off Gomez for LHP
lead off Span for RHP
I love Span’s power!
Boy Seth, you really have this lineup doing handstands…I say go with what works (status quo), but keep your eyes on Go-go…if he continues to roll along at an OBP below .300, put him elsewhere…
As for Span, he should just be happy he’s in the lineup…he needs to prove he can do it at this level…I hope he does because I’m not convinced, despite what LaVelle has professed on KFAN, that Cuddyer’s going to offer up much the rest of the year…
By the way, can anyone pinpoint when this latest Cuddyer injury occurred…or is it something that just cropped up as a nagging injury?
youngs #’s this yr are very close to kirby’s 2nd yr #’s
85: kirby 4 hr, 74 rbi, .288 ave, .330 obp.
08: young 1/2 season 2 hr, 28 rbi, .281 ave, .329 obp.
of course kirby exploded in 86: 31 hr, 96 rbi, .328 ave, .366 obp; we can only hope!
I have a feeling DY has another dinger tonight. I just have a feeling he’s about ready to start swinging like he is capable. His HR yesterday was effortless on an inside pitch.
You can all point out my error later if it doesn’t happen… cause I’ll be sure to mention it if it does happen… although I think I’ll be late to blog-party tonight.
Jason,
that was a total stream of consciousness comment. I think status quo right now makes a lot of sense. I was just rambling because we do talk so much about lineup construction and this and that. And, maybe someone isn’t hitting well, but putting them in a better spot in the lineup, in front of, or behind, the right guy and things could turn. Those are things that a manager can do to help a player (and his team). But you’re right, right now interupting the flow makes no sesne.
Hopefully, Gomez and young fulfill their potential. If all goes as planned, this could be the 2010 line up:
SS Casilla
C Mauer
CF Gomez
1B Morneau
LF Young
DH Kubel
RF Cuddyer
2B Hughes or Tolbert
3B Who cares as long as everybody else develops as they should!
But, you got to leave the line up alone right now
I don’t see why anyone would say Delmon can’t bat fifth with Cuddyer out. I’d rather have Delmon batting fifth even with a healthy Cuddyer. He gets some protection from a hot-hitting Kubel right now, and he’ll have lots of RBI opportunities on base for him. He’s batting .325/.345/.488 this month, and I’m with Carlos G. He looked like he barely even swung on his HR yesterday. Everyone knows he’s got the power, maybe it’ll start surfacing now.
With an OPS of .833 this month, I see no reason Delmon SHOULDN’T be higher in the lineup than 6th or 7th. People really need to stop being so hard on him. He’s playing very well right now.
I love Span’s power!
If I remember correctly Span does not have an extra base hit in the majors…
I would not change anything in the core of the lineup. The one thing I would do differently is to start Kubel at RF and play Monroe at DH every day against the Tigers. He has an ax to grind against them, let him grind it…
Good to hear from Steve…haven’t heard much from him this year!
No answers on the Cuddy injury, huh? I was at the game Saturday so I never heard an official explanation.
La Velle offered the excuse of potentially three different finger injuries for Cuddyer this season, which I’m sure is no fun, but I can’t quite let him off that easily–unless those injuries also account for his regression in 2007.
Anyway, I hope Carlos is right about D Young and I hope we get this one off to a good start with a W tonight!
I think that Kubel should be starting in Right Field with either Young or Span as the DH. Kubel’s range is not great, but his arm is good, and would be the closest at “replacing” Cuddyer’s defense in right.
“I love Span’s power”
If it was power you were after, they should have brought up Darnell McDonald.
“He has an ax to grind against them, let him grind it…”
Or, he tries too hard, grips the bat too tight and strikes out every at bat.
I meant why Delmon shouldn’t bat higher against lefty starters, to be clear. I suppose I could’ve stated that better. Against RHPs, I’d leave it as close as possible to the way it’s been when they’ve been hot. Mauer/Morneau/Kubel against a top-tier lefty is tough though.
Seth,
still, he has better numbers this year in the majors than Span and I’d take a home run per 5.5 Ks (Monroe’s numbers) vs. softly hit balls to the right side of the infield any time.
I’ve been in hiding Jason… haha. 
I don’t know if there’s statistics to back this up, and so this is just my own perception of things, but it does seem like players find a way to elevate themselves against a club who let them go. It may just be a slight mental thing, but I also think there’s something to it.
Again, small sample size, but here’s Craig’s line against those pesky Tiggers from the 100 Acre Wood (aka Detroit):
5-15, 1 HR, 3 RBI, 2 R
Extremely small sample, but an .867 OPS against a team that he feels like he’s got something to prove to is enough for me to want him in the lineup. If he struggles, I say it was a risk that was worth it. He had a couple deep fly balls to left when he played this weekend; I say give him the chance to get the job done. Monroe’s an emotional player, and hopefully those emotions elevate him this series if Gardy puts him out there.
Personally, if there’s one change I think they could stand to make, it would be sitting Gomez for a day. Let Span take center, Kubel in right, and Craiggy Mo can take the DH role. We’ve finally got an option that allows us to rest Gomez without losing much speed. I don’t think giving Go-Go a day would hurt.
I think our line-up should be….
Casilla
Mauer
Mourneau
Kubel
Young
Harris
Buscher
Span
Gomez
Why?? Cuz Gomez is not a leadoff hitter, or a number two guy, The way Mourneau is hitting he would be better in the three hole, and Mauer is a natural number two hitter.
[Insert obligatory “If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it” post…]
The other thing that bugs me with the Span call up is the following:
a. This team cannot hit LHP
b. Macri this year was .409/.409/.591 against LHP (22 AB) and Span had a ground out and a strike out in 2 AB.
c. Without Span and Cuddyer, this team already has 4 OFs and an emergency 5th (LNP)
I think that because this team has been sucking so much lately, Gardy should pull off a Billy Martin and make the lineup by pulling numbers off the hat
[/sarcasm]
The Twins FO correctly sacrificed defense to improve the offense.
They gave up Santana, Garza, Silva, Castillo, Bartlett, Tyner and Hunter.
As a result they went from 17 games out of first place to 1 1/2 games out of first.
Sometimes defense wins championships.
Sometimes defense leaves you 17 games out of first place.
Come on, Gardy. I want to see an outfield with Young in right and Span in left.
One thing I like about switching around Gomez and Casilla is that if Casilla reaches 1st, Gomez’s speed will screw up alot of potential double plays.
hmmm
I think that Leyland must be a bit senile/frustrated/whatever/psychic/on something:
#1 Rentaria .275/.323/.355
.
.
.
#9 Granderson .293/.344/.493
(he’d probably bat Span leadoff over Gomez)
Twins were not 17 games out at the allstar break last year.
Granderson is so bad against lefties they usually don’t even start him.
How did we go from having to play the Tyners and Lew Fords of the world to having too many outfielders?
all these endless suggestions for tinkering with the batting order as if there’s some magic perfect answer reminds me of drivers who insist on repeatedly switching lanes in a traffic jam.
It doesn’t make sense for Young to move to right. It may have been his “natural” position. But the Dome and the baggie are two seperate beasts that must be overcome.
Young will move to right if something permanently changes that and leaves that the best option. Not until. We’ve seen this with Kubel playing RF while Cuddy’s been hurt.
If Cuddy is traded, and Kubel or Span become everyday fielders…you could see Young move then.
As far as the neccesity for Span…the Twins may have four guys who can play OF, but if you don’t call Span up all of them are in the lineup (as three are in your staring OF and the 4th would be the starting DH)
Gardy does NOT have to explain to anyone nor apologize to anyone for his lineup decisions. He is the Manager (keep it up and Manager of the Year) of the Minnesota Twins. Let’s all let him do his job. Good luck, Twins, we all want you Pups to cool off the Tiggers! He is doing the best he can with what the Big Kahunas give him to work with, and to me he is doing one hell of a job!!!!!!!!!!!!
How can you trade cuddyer, spann has 31 career abs and couldn’t beat gomez for cf job in spring training. Gomez is an easy out when he’s swinging for the fences. Casilla realy impresses me. I have to say that 9,1,2 may be the three fastest guys in baseball.
Nice catch by Span to start this stint in the Bigs. Maybe he smells an opening for him and an extended stay!
How about this new lefty view from the centerfield camera.
Don’t know if I like it….It’s too high.
Nice catch by Denard to start the game, but did it seem like he completely turned his head away before he had caught the ball to anyone else? Guess I’ll have to see on a replay…
CALL ME:
(or STUPID: just kidding)
I thought they were in the race somewhat mid season and went in the tank late. Can’t remember.
Polanco looked like grandpa on that one.
Yeah, what’s up with this camera? Is their normal camera well under construction or something?
Wow. Cabrera is a stiff at 1B. You can tell he doesn’t have much experience playing there.
I-Rod feeling like grandpa.
Hate the camera angle
Better take him out, don’t want to risk injury to your catcher in a meaningless game. LOL!
Mauer looking more powerful than Morneau lately. Who’da thunk it….
New camera angle gives a very accurate look at the strike zone. It’s an adjustment, but it actually makes a little more sense.
Makes ya really grateful for Casilla’s arm strength, huh….
I’d like this angle as a supplement to the normal centerfield cam, but not in place of it.
Polanco should quit hot dogging and just make the play.
But we’ll take it.
From the stupid question category…when did they move the center field camera directly behind the pitcher???? I absolutely LOVE that!!! It’s about time…Anyone know?
sorry Frank, I agree with SCH
I like actually seeing where the ball crosses the plate. Makes all the sense in the world to me but I’m probably in the minority. Oh well!
Just zoom in the shot, and we’ll all probably get used to the new angle.
I wonder if they’re doing this new look for Perkins only……
Let him off the hook.
SHOOT! ! !
Mauer more powerful than Morneau recently?? Define recently?? Since 7:10pm today?? Please…no comparison.
good one, brass key
sheesh!
the lead lasted one pitch!
OK, nice to get a better view of the K zone. But it’s always been great to get a closeup of our players so you can see their faces and all when they’re batting.
I don’t know why they won’t show the overhead more on replays of close pitches. (I suppose MLB frowns on it.)
Maybe go back to the old angle and use this new angle for replays on close pitches.
Not a big fan of the camera, they need to use this as a supplement to the other one. It seems awkard when the ball is put in play and they change angles, feels like I lose the ball. The old one worked just fine, and using this angle in some situations would be OK.
I can’t say that there’s a focus issue concerning Perkins, but he seems a little too entertained of being in MLB games sometimes.
Big, long grin on his face after Span made his great play in the 1st. Now he throws what looked like an imitation pickoff move and almost threw it away.
I know he’s a gamer, and I appreciate his chin music to Polanco in the 1st.
But he looks a little like a rookie here and there.
Right, Arik. And you can’t see the catcher’s signs anymore.
wasn’t that about 8 throws to 1B against Sheffield? pretty absurd methinks. I wonder whether it’s the players or Gardy. Not sure whether Perkins is a ML starter or reliever yet.
Oh, I get it. If they zoom in they’ll either have to cut off the pitcher’s legs or cut off the top of the screen where the advertising is.
So it’s a money decision to not zoom in.
OMG, Cabrera needs to be put down.
there goes Span…
The think with Detroit is that they have about 6 DH-type players. The have to play 5 of them in the field…
Cabrera has been taken out of the game?
…Seriously?
Span is an awful hitter. Craig is an idiot for promoting span and using him and carew in the same sentence.
Is this new view some kind of high def thing?
How can Detroit be formidible without Bonderman, Willis, and Ordonez. And Granderson is batting 9th? He’s having an okay year.
Now Cabrera looks injured.
They took him out of the game?
And boy, you talk about disaster trades. What if your a Tigers fan with Cabrera and Willis costing 6 players and a truckload of money.
Now 1 is in the minors and 1 can’t find a position.
Liriano tonight:
7IP 4H/BB/9K on 106 pitches/70 strikes
NINE ground outs, 3 fly outs
Cabrera doesn’t look hurt. He just sucks.
T
I thought the Tigers were idiots for trading for Willis. As soon as Shef retires, Cabrera can DH. And the kid will rake for many years.
Man, Buscher’s throw sails a little even when he throw’s it easy. The guy must be too strong or something.
JP:
The Span/Carew thing reminds me how much I dislike Delmon and Tony Oliva in the same commercial.
Not there yet!
his bat must stink
thanks Funky
gee, I wonder what that message was?
Heck yeah Mauer! Show it!
Mauer showing a bit of subtle anger there. That was actually pretty eerie.
And the Umps warn both benches already. Thanks umps.
Mauer’s pissed
Correcting my 7:40 post — it wasn’t Polanco but rather Guillen who took the chin music.
Mauer’s been showing some emotion lately…fist pumps, glares to the mound…I like it
so for those of us in other time zones, what happened, please?
Galaragga took two shots at Mauer after a visit from the pitching coach. Missed on both.
crazy as hell. thx.
Galarraga threw close to Mauer twice after Perkins got close to one of the Tigers… Mauer took a lazy step towards the mound with an evil glare…Umps warned benches…Gardy came out…got ejected.
Perkins’ pitch to Guillen in the 1st was over his head.
I can’t say I like that location very much.
Correcting my 7:40 post — it wasn’t Polanco but rather Guillen who took the chin music.
Maybe Guillen shouldn’t have had his chin over top of the plate, then he wouldn’t have had anything to cry about.
Take that Tiggers.
A bit of English on that chip shot my MVP!!!!
And Morneau makes them regret it.
MENTAL:
bert says he was obviously trying to hit him. or he just has lousy control.
LOL
JP,
Sorry, I compared Span to Carew. Try this on:
Span = Hosken Powell
Young = Bombo Rivera
Gomez = Willie Norwood
Do you like that better?
that was a ball. at least two inches off the corner of the plate.
home plate ump sucks. let’s him get by with two bean balls, ejects gardy in a few seconds, calls out kubel on one outside.
That called K to Kubel looked well outside. Home plate ump doing a job on the Twins.
three detroit errors in three innings. any thoughts on the tigers, craig?
ok, span NOT=carew
delmon NOT=oliva
gomez NOT=kirby
morneau NOT=killebrew (maybe herbie, without the rings)
Span = Hosken Powell
I’d buy that…
On another note, if Ullger has any cajones, when Perkins is pitching on fumes, he should have him throw one at Sheffield
thry, the risk there is that Perk could end up suspended.
And knowing the Tiggers, they’d have Sheff go out to the mound to start something and force it to happen.
Here comes La Velle’s “great relay team”.
T,
a 5 game suspension with a day off (like the Twins have)= no suspension…
Perk just cut his pitch per inning average to 14+. Good sign. When facing power teams, fear (inside pitches) favor the hitters vs. the sluggers.
Perkins matching Liriano’s minor league game tonight……so far.
Span is such a difference maker
LOVE IT GOMEZ!!!!
watch THIS!
Daniel1966, you mean sluggers have to dive into the ball to get more power whereas hitters hold back more and use their hands?
how about stealing home now
thrylos, don’t be beset by sarcasm just yet. Span smacked that one.
So what do you guys think of the new camera angle? At first I didn’t like it but now it’s growing on me. I like how you can see the pitches better and also how the ball comes off the bat.
mauer goes out with a whimper, not a bang, but gets a hit and an rbi
YES!!!
Batting Gomez leadoff is a joke. He’s got the worst OBP of any regular starter.
Batting Order (OPS Rank)
Casilla (4)
Buscher (3)
Mauer (2)
Mourneau (1)
Kubel (5)
Young (6)
Gomez (7)
Harris (8)
Span (9)
Robert…I like the camera angle too…
Ya know……if Justin had more HRs he just might be in first place in the AS voting.
who cares. he only leads off once a game and we’re winning games, why change?
speaking of camera angles…my idea would be to have a small “home plate” camera box in the upper right hand corner where the FSN logo is. It would have a camera zoomed in with a bird’s eye view of the plate.
not you romer. i care about that.
twins get no love.
Mr. romer, Controlled swings dictate hits. When the other team relies on little speed, poor defense and the home run, the odds are in your favor. That inability to hit homers on the road may well be the edge we need to catch the White Sox. Back to the game.
Hi mickey,
The Tigers remind me of the Twins teams from the early 1960’s. Good pitching, hitters swinging for the fences, shaky in the field. Tough to win that way.
“Darnell Span…” Nice work Bert.
How much does he drink on the air? Haha
Craig,
you think the Tigers have “good pitching”? Their only starter under 4.30 ERA is Galarraga, their closer is having a 4.78 ERA and their priced off season acquisition close to 11….
thrylos,
The way the guys behind them play in the field, Detroit pitchers have to get the K, or they are in trouble. No surprise their stats are ugly.
yess!
craig, those early ’60s twins teams were headed in the right direction while these tigers seem old and creaky.
Span = Carew
I agree, mickey.
The first replay angle looked like a trap. But maybe not the others. So ya can’t blame the ump for the call either way.
That’s the breaks, Jimmie L……..
Now they slow the replay way down. Definitely a trap.
Joe Mauer = Jesus
maybe span IS the difference maker.
Span is .333 for the night. Span is Carew. What’s the problem?
MLB gameday has him at a .265 average for the yeat, NIC
i’m still laughing at all the people on this site who kept saying they were more afraid of the tigers than the white sox. the tigers have no pitching, no fielding, and no desire (see cabrera).
Gomez just struck out on a “Torii”. Tell me somebody doesn’t know what that is.
I know exactly what that is tim
Not Terry,
Span is only Carew since his recent call-up.
Buscher’s accuracy on his throws is unspeakably terrible. Dear God, it’s a heart attack every time he fields a grounder.
Tigers First Basemen = Night
Twins First Baseman = Day
Still have no idea why Granderson is 9th.
Granderson’s career line vs. LHP:
.207/.268/.367
That’s probably why he’s 9th. Usually he doesn’t play at all, but with Ordonez on the DL, they don’t have much OF depth.
When Luis Orlando Rodriguez threw, it was right on the money.
NIC,
okay, but if I remember my college stats course says that is a very small sample size to make such an extraction
Steve,
I’ve been using the term “Butcher” to describe Buscher’s capability on the field the last couple of weeks and it is warranted. Good thing Morneau is an above average first baseman
Just an observation.
I think I hurt myself tonight jumping on and off the bandwagon. I was ready to bring Liriano up and put Perkins in the bullpen. and then, Great Job Perk!!! Just like I “always” knew
God damn crain
Would Gardy have pulled Perkins?
why not have perkins throw @ somebody before taking him out? might as well get tossed if you are gonna bring in ballfour(crain)
Thanks, Steve, for Granderson’s career line.
But he’s been playing. I think he leads the club in runs.
“When Luis Orlando Rodriguez threw, it was right on the money.”
Too bad his glove was writing checks his bat couldn’t cash.
I don’t think that Gardy would have pulled Crain or that he would have brought Reyes in at that point…
Crain’s been fine this year against just about every team but Detroit… why bring him in against his worst team? Guerrier’s been beat up by them too, but not as badly. Why not Guerrier?
Wow they better not waste Perkins great start.
Also terrible… Buscher’s range…
Ha-ha, domedoglover.
I didn’t Crain’s pitches tonight, but he hasn’t had his sharp-breaking slider in a while. Anyone see it?
I didn’t see Crain’s pitches tonight……
Why the heck was Perk pulled after only 83 pitches????
they were all low and not close
When is Ullger’s contact up?
Per gets a quality start, but……
Was he out of gas?
Is Ulger out of gas? Or full of it.
thetaxi
His count was actually 91, however it’s unfortunate that Crain came in and stunk up the place.
Regarding Perkins vs. Granderson, left handed batter have hit better against Perk than RH. Maybe that’s why he is in the game.
God!!
PERKINS gets a quality start…..
Is Lamb, Buscher’s mentor? They are the same player.
Thata boy Matty!!!
Bless your heart, Matt!
all i can say is thank goodness for span.
whew, can’t say i wasn’t worried.
Well, I blame Yahoo’s count for the 83 number. I wish I could watch, but Dish Ntwk and living in Maine doesn’t help my cause. Doesn’t seem like you pull a guy who has been dominating Tigers hitters, especially given Crain’s record against them.
Alright,
Possum in for Detroit. Game over
i put this out there far in advance so T won’t say i’m “second guessing” i would have nathan soft tossing to start the 8th inning. if detroit gets any kind of rally going, i get nathan out there. yes he can pitch 1 and 2/3 of an inning. thats how important i think this game is.
What atrocious fielding…I haven’t seen this since my days in T-ball
for what it’s worth, you can bet that gardy made the pitching change from the clubhouse.
Some more follies at 1B for the Tigers. All going back to Fat Cat Cabrera can’t play 3B.
WTF did the sing him then?
Galarraga with a quality start too.
Just saw the replay on the Guillen chin music. The pitch as not that far inside.
Gardy was right. That was BS to warn the benches.
The pitch was not that far inside….
(I’m going out for some fresh air!)
Throw him the big curve.
He’ll K.
Swisher with 2 HR’s for the Sqawks tonight —- one was the salami.
I’m in the same boat as JP. Nathan should be warming up since Guerrier had to come in “early”.
They’ve already burned through their “guys” and all that’s left aside from Nathan is the B-Bros (Bass, Breslow, Bonser)
And yeah, mental’s hit the nail on the head. In the modern era we live in, there’s no way that ejecting a manager means he doesn’t still call the shots.
!
Great play by Span…….
Nobody warmed up?
Ulger, are you awake?
You gotta be kidding me
What a friggin waste.
! !
This one’s on the bullpen.
Crain, Reyes, Guerrier. The A-Squad couldn’t get the job done.
did you see that basket catch by Mays Span?
What a horrible job of managing tonight. Bullpen needs to do better though too.
T,
this one is on the manager(s) not the bullpen…
Worst bullpen management ever. You have a lefty in the bullpen yet leave a right in to face two lefties?
At least on the upside, with Ulger “in charge” and Span in the game…we all have somebody to scapegoat even with the three guys on the mound right there throwing the pitches.
Unbelivable. Horrible job by our bullpen. Give them a 3 run lead now we are losing. Great.
“yes he can pitch 1 and 2/3 of an inning. thats how important i think this game is.”
Thanks, JP.
No, Ulger-Dullger.
T
This is on the bullpen. BUT IT IS ALSO ON GARDY AND HIS GOD*#$^#$ COOKBOOK APPROACH TO USING NATHAN.
CLOSERS HAVING TO START INNINGS IS BULL@*$)$@!!!!
Not to mention *shock horror* the Tigers are actually a good hitting team right now.
Why don’t umps call that higher pitch in the strike zone?
Congrats Tigers. You win because Ullger is clueless.
Quite simply, if any one of Crain, Reyes, or Guerrier does their job this doesn’t happen.
Romer
Are you saying I jinxed this game?
“CLOSERS HAVING TO START INNINGS IS BULL@*$)$@!!!!”
And there’s some rule that three guys can’t pitch a combined two innings?
“Congrats Tigers. You win because Ullger is clueless.”
And not because they’ve got a solid lineup?
Thank you, Brendan.
Guerrier should be better then this though. Wow he is horrible tonight so far. Tigers are a good hitting team but our bullpen is supposed to be pretty good too. Not tonight though. Argh
1-run game.
I’ll just pretend it’s 1-0 and we have to beat their BP.
Why wasn’t Breslow warming up to face a possible LH pinch hitter? Day late/$ short. Sorry folks, but welcome back to ML competition. You’re not in SD anymore.
“this one is on the manager(s) not the bullpen…”
Sorry for bucking the trend. I tend to forget we’re only allowed to blame players and coaches we don’t like for losses.
Oh, and we can never give credit to the other team. Ever.
Hey we’ve still got 2 half innings, and this team has a way of fighting back unexpectedly (discounting further damage by the bullpen, of course).
Instead of being down, I’ll just focus on the fact that we’re facing an awful bullpen for the next two innings, and worst case scenario is that we’re facing Todd Jones in the 9th inning. I’m not too intimidated. Let’s go Twins!
Funny. That strike was the same spot as the first one.
Mike Redmond, another player with a future in annoucing if he wants.
Fans are like that alot of the time. They blame their team for not getting it done most of the time not to the other team.
Wow I wonder what some of the players think when they have to do those lame promo commercials.
Cant blame the other team, when you are gift wrapping the game for them.
Kubel’s getting screwed over by this umpire on the outside corner tonight… wow.
“CLOSERS HAVING TO START INNINGS IS BULL@*$)$@!!!!”
And there’s some rule that three guys can’t pitch a combined two innings?
“Congrats Tigers. You win because Ullger is clueless.”
And not because they’ve got a solid lineup?
T
this is where your defense of the coaches is sickening. to not be prepared in the 8th inning is a crime (in the baseball sense)
If either Mike hates cutting a promo, they’re pretty good actors.
Though your theory could explain Mauer’s less than stellar delivery.
Im surprised Delmon doesn’t swing at pickoff attempts
“this is where your defense of the coaches is sickening.”
Which is hilarious, because tomorrow I’ll blame Gardy or Ulger for something and everybody will jump on me because it was OBVIOUSLY the player who screwed up.
That’s my point. There’s no consistency in complaints these days. Nathan should be capable of pitching more than an inning…but Guerrier/Reyes/Crain shouldn’t be expeted to get through 2?
I consistency blame the players (regardless of who’s on the mound or at the plate) when the situation calls for it.
That’s more than I can say for a LOT of people here.
what’s with the camera angles tonight? It looks like I am watching baseball from the 1970’s
No JP. You’re the prophet.
it ain’t over till it’s over
still 6 outs
Oh wait…oh wait.
ULGER WAS AN IDIOT FOR SENDING YOUNG! RAWR I SAW DA FUTUR!
Well that was extremely unfortunate…. 
Of course we do nothing but get double plays. These kind of losses really annoy me.
$@#% happens.
If the Twins lose tonight, it’s clearly T’s fault.
I like when we play the tigers because its always interesting seeing how much tobacco carlos guillen can fit in his mouth
If the Twins lose tonight, it’s clearly T’s fault.
Obviously. I broke Gardy’s crystal ball during my last visit to the Dome.
B.S. T, B.S.
I am as middle of the road as they come. I rip both sides. You even agreed that you would have Nathan ready at 9:43. It was an obvious situation and the coaches weren’t ready. A baseball crime.
I’m so disgusted by the coaches and you defending them that I’m done for the night. One less poster for you to scramble and negate in your overzealous efforts to defend Gardy.
Man I hope they get Jones up, if he comes in i think we could win it!
Whats up with this pitching change?
Nora says:
“These kind of losses really annoy me.”
Nora is annoyed with you, T.
another pitching change that makes sense… get a guy off who is cruising without any earned runs allowed and replace him with a journeyman minor leaguer. Way to go…
Yeah, I agreed Nathan should be warming up. But that doesn’t mean that Guerrier/Reyes/Crain didn’t get the job done.
Poor pitching by the bullpen put the management in a spot they shouldn’t have been in.
Should we blame Gardy for having Span in the lineup tonight? Should it have been Lamb…Monroe….anybody else?
Or is he trying to make due with the best options he’s got now that Cuddy’s out?
I sure hope that someone pinch hits for Span at the bottom of the 9th
Do we see Span or Monroe lead off the 9th?
T. And I am trying to be delicate…Gardy will be patted on the head and praised by Leyland if the Twins lose for, predictably, getting his butt run in the third inning. This isn’t Ullger’s fault when you know Gardy is in the tunnel. Gardy hates the warning rule and , if you check, gets rung up on it consistently. Advantage Leyland and when crunch time arrived, Where’s Gardy? Pacing the clubhouse? Mowing Carol’s lawn?
Should we blame Gardy for having Span in the lineup tonight?
YES
and those pitching changes… I am not sure it is Gardy or Ullger, but you don’t get pitchers in for 2 batters. Totally idiotic
If the ump could have heard me through the TV he would have thrown me out too.
“One less poster for you to scramble and negate in your overzealous efforts to defend Gardy.”
See ya later. It’ll be one less poster who turns a blind eye any time I voice a concern.
Like I keep saying, I’d LOVE to build an archive for ya…since apparently my complete and utter disregard for the apparently poor memories of my fellow commenters requires me to repeat my complaints once a post.
I swear, they need an official forum right here. Then I could put “I wanted Buscher at 3B since the beginning of the season and Kubel as the everyday DH since day 1.”
I don’t know what’s worse…the crystal balls or the selective amnesia.
JP says,
“I’m so disgusted by the coaches and you defending them”
JP is disgusted with you, T.
Sigh. Denard hits… prove me wrong Span… please…
Span is Carew.
Come on boys lets go!
and there is Span batting…
IDIOTS
I stand corrected. You’re off the hook for now Denard.
The squirrel picked a good time to find his acorn.
Gomez is Junior Ortiz
It’s so fun to watch the “themes” build in the comments threads.
thank goodness for d span.
Oh man. Leyland’s an IDIOT for not going to Jones.
WHUT A MORAN!
Come on Lexi find a gap!!!!!!!!!!!
We need a walk or hit to set up the sac-fly tie.
FORCE THEM TO BRING IN JONES
Nice phantom call dick, you tool
Settle down Dick, that’s called a routine flyball.
SPAN SHUD HAV TAGED!
With the Detroit defense…EVERY play is a potential gamebreaker.
Mauer doubles here I’ll shat myself.
ANYTHING TO TIE THE GAME
Looks as though I’ll remain unsoiled.
Way to go, T.
Well obviously Ulger’s an idiot for not having Span tag and go to 3rd. That’d have put the SS out of position and that ball finds the gap.
WHUT A MAROON!
Way to go, T.
I didn’t want poor snepp to mess himself. I can’t imagine that would be easy to live down.
well,
2 more games coming up…
MAUER SUCKS!!!!
T = Most annoying poster on here.
Three cheers for horrendous bullpen management!
Hip, hip…hooray!
Hip, hip…hooray!!
Hip, hip…hooray!!!
T,
Ullger is an idiot. Period.
Loveless = Some guy I’ve never heard of, but likely ACTUALLY somebody I have.
Yeah thry, this loss sucked…but we figured it was the end of the world after the Brewers loss.
They bounced back from that fairly well.
Tigers brought in their best to get the win. Twins might have won if they brought in their best. Disappointing.
I didn’t want poor snepp to mess himself. I can’t imagine that would be easy to live down.
I really need a shower anyway, so wouldn’t have been the end of the world.
Gardenhire needs to apologize to his players for needlessly getting tossed.
Loveless = Most unloved poster on here.
Well snepp, I’ll admit there was some selfish motivation…there was enough stink from the mound today, I didn’t want to make things worse.
The only pitchers not used tonight out of the pen were Bonser and Nathan. Getting relievers up and down like (exhale and count to 3 - adjective deleted) marionettes is not a way to manage a game. Not in the majors, not in single A, not in Rookie league. These guys gotta go.
Still unanswered question:
Why was Perk jerked?
Loveless = Some guy I’ve never heard of, but likely ACTUALLY somebody I have.
I had to come back on that one. I would never post under a different name. I’ll call you a moron with my own name and include my email address if you want.
If you can answer this simple question, then you are correct and i apologize.
Name one time you’ve posted an in game criticism of the coaching staff? Take your time and look it up. The coaching staff blew donkey muscles tonight in regards to the bullpen in the 8th inning. Pure and simple. And funny that you posted sarcastically about Leyland and Zumyaya. Leland left him in for one reason and one reason only. He was going to lose the game with his best relief pitcher in the game. Gardy lost it with his riding the pine.
T,
is not the end of the world, but… I wonder whether any of the mainstream media is going to criticize the obvious mishandling of the pen tonight that cost the game… It is a story that has repeated 4-5 times this season and this time Gardy has none to bark at…
I wonder why Perk was taken out too. Was the pitch count high? Either way, he could not have been worse then those that followed him tonight.
When the Perk-jerk occurred, how many pitches had he thrown?
romer,
Perk was jerked, because the person who made that decision is inept.
Got your answer now?
No the media (ESPN) will likely be jumping on the Tigers bandwagon. LOL
Here is the Pitching count tonight:
Perkins: 91
Crain: 6
Reyes: 5
Guerrier: 30
Breslow: 6
Bass: 4
way to mess up a game
It’s funny, Gardy’s a genious during a 10-game winning streak.
But OH the minute it’s over…everybody’s idiots again.
Damn them sudden IQ changes. I’m surprised Gardy hasn’t lapsed into a coma considering the rapid changes in brain activity over the last few days.
Thanks for the pitch count, thrylos.
Guerrier is a very over rated pitcher. There is a reason why he was claimed off of waivers by Twins. He can’t handle tough situations. He’s proven that many times!!
Nora,
I mean the local media that never criticize Twins manager decisions… ESPN would care less. Read Souhan’s column today, he practically had an self cencorsed writing about what a difference Gardy made to this team…
Mr thrylos, I value your posts as much as anyone’s, but, what is so idiotic to use your bullpen for two batters each when you’re trying to protect a lead? We ended up doing virtually just that while losing by a run. Where the hell was Breslow in the eighth when Leyland went to Joyce with lh batting Granderson on deck? That was idiocy!! Remember, nobody but Slowey pitched yesterday.
T,
Gardy has underachieved this season (and for the last 4). Winning streak or not. If the Twins do not win the division, he should be out. Ullger should be out tomorrow…
Well, when things are not going well the local media doesn’t exactly sugar coat it either.
I was secretely hoping that the Twins would come back against Zumaya (I know, how dare I wish success!).
Then everybody would layer affection upon the winning hitter, and totally ignore the fact that Leyland didn’t go to his closer (in their minds handing the Twins the win)
T - I don’t know why you find it necessary to police these blogs like you’re the only one who’s “enlightened” enough. For goodness sake, if people want to blame the managers, that’s their opinion which should be valued no less than yours. But carry on if you think you must.
As a fairly infrequent commenter, I usually don’t blame the in-game managment. Tonight, I do think better moves could have been made. How are you ever going to know if Breslow can get lefties out in key situations if you don’t ever give him a chance? And yeah, there are occasions when I’d like to see Nathan used more than his usual 1 inning appearance.
“Gardy has underachieved this season (and for the last 4). Winning streak or not.”
Are you SERIOUS?
How could Gardy possibly be underachieving this season? I’m pretty sure most of the pundits around here (myself included) had him pegged as being a 65 win team at best.
If anything, he’s OVERACHIEVING…that jerk.
And for the record, I think Gardy’s a pretty good manager.
Daniel,
The point is, that a reliever is barely warmed up after a few pitches. You cannot simply take them out of there just then. It is a schizophrenic philosophy. If someone was pinch hitting lefty to righty and changing relief pitchers accordingly, I would take it. But there was not a single pinch hitting at this game. All this relief pitcher use did was to have one pitcher in the pen who is out tomorrow (Guerrier) one pitcher who is rested (Bonser), the closer, and 4 pitchers who are in borderline…
“that’s their opinion which should be valued no less than yours. But carry on if you think you must.”
People say this about me over and over. “Oh T…you always disagree and always ‘police’ (…?) the blogs. Why can’t you just let people have their opinion?”
Translation: “Hi kettle, I’m pot. Your black.”
JDW,
Guerrier has been fantastic in late-inning situations dating back to last season.
There are plenty of people claimed off waivers who have great careers. Just because someone is given up on by an organization doesn’t mean they’re not worthwhile. Johan Santana was a Rule V Draft pick… does that make him crappy?
Don’t be ridiculous.
And for the record: I do have issues. I’ve voiced them before.
And believe it or not, I share opinions of some of the posters aronud here.
Unfortunately it’s not the vocal majority. Or at least, not the vocal majority following losses.
My opinions tend to stay fairly constant across wins and losses…changing over time as things play out.
For example: I’ve still got egg on my face for defending Everett’s signing. I thought for sure his bat would be covered by Delmon (who I had pegged as batting 3rd by the All-Star break…yeah, I don’t see that happening)
So right there I’m doubly mistaken. Admitted it long ago.
Mr thrylos, Did James pinch hit for Rayburn in the eighth or did I miss something?
For example: I’ve still got egg on my face for defending Everett’s signing. I thought for sure his bat would be covered by Delmon (who I had pegged as batting 3rd by the All-Star break…yeah, I don’t see that happening)
So right there I’m doubly mistaken. Admitted it long ago.
Name one time you’ve criticized an in game move made by the coaching staff. I’m still waiting.
T,
We have different points of view. I pegged this team at 89 wins this off season (with 3 different variable calculations never the less).
Most ‘insiders’ picked this team to win last year. Did Gardy overachieve? A lot of people picked this team to win it all in 2006. Did Gardy overachieve?
I am frankly sick and tired of Twins’ fans being fine and contempt with a B- average team during Gardy’s regime.
Daniel,
Joyce PH for Rayburn in the 8th. So?
Personally I think Gardenhire gets too much credit. I think it’s ridiculous that someone as fast as Alexi Casilla only has 4 steals this season, because Gardenhire never steals with Mauer at the plate.
We continue to bat Gomez leadoff, and while it’s working, it’s probably not in the Twins’ best interest, because in the long run, you want your high OBP guys at the top of the lineup.
Cuddyer continues to bat in the five-hole despite a completely underwhelming season, and he’s failed to show enough confidence in some people who are going to be a major part of this organization for years to come.
We could’ve made Kubel an everyday player last year to get him some more experience versus lefties in a season when we weren’t contending, and now he’s batting under .200 against them in a season when we’re right in the thick of things. Seems like a bad time for some trial by fire learning.
Perhaps if Buscher had more of a chance last year instead of Nick Punto being the worst offensive player in baseball and somehow still coming up with the third-most plate appearances on the team, the Lamb signing wouldn’t have happened and we’d have had some more production from 3B this season.
Most of this is speculation, and I’m hardly one to call for Gardy’s head on a plate, but I disagree with him quite a bit. Casilla should’ve been on the move tonight when Mauer hit into that double play long before it happened. I realize that was Ullger, but I’m sure he models his managerial decisions after Gardy as a member of his coaching staff.
I think it’s unfair when managers get fired because of their team’s ineptness, and likewise, I think managers get far too much credit when their team is playing well.
Gardenhire isn’t as bad as he’s made to sound on this blog, but he definitely doesn’t deserve the praise he gets from the media either, I don’t feel.
Kind of a good game. Too bad it got ruined for Perkins.
With two on and a 3-run lead and 91 pitches thrown, Ullger-Gardy-Whoever didn’t trust Perk to pitch to Polanco — who’s had 3 HRs this year. (I think it was Polanco up.)
Perk is a gamer. If Polanco gets a hit (other than a HR), THEN jerk Perk. You still have the lead.
Gardy didn’t have a chance in 2007 once it became clear Punto wasn’t going to be an everday contributor.
Unfortunately his hands got tied by the FO’s stubborness to give him anything to work with at 3B aside from Punto. (Cirillo was on the DL at the time)
Then they traded Castillo away, and though it shouldn’t have been a big deal it apparently crushed team morale.
From there, Hunter went into Free Agency Coast mode (though from the looks of things he had his mind made up about leaving MN long before Castillo was dealt)
As far 2006 goes…what could Gardy have done differently? His offense (the same 9 guys that had started on fire halfway through) went just as cold at the WRONG time.
His pitching kicked butt, but then Hunter cost them a game (and if you try to argue that is somehow Gardy’s fault your stretching).
I have ONE major complaint during Gardy’s tenure. That was his handling of the first (or was it second) Yankees series.
Pulling the hot hitting Lew Ford for the then nobody Jason Kubel (who struck out on three pitches), and then pulling Santana early in game 4 when he was cruising and then pulling Belfour when he was cruising just as well.
And that wasn’t even 2006.
But I suppose the fact I said that will all be forgotten by the time the next entry is posted.
Joyce was a lefthanded batter, was he not? Breslow is a left handed picher, is he not? Granderson is a left handed batter, is he not? I’m only asking where Breslow was at the most critical time of the game. If he wasn’t warmed up, whose fault is that?
I think it’s unfair when managers get fired because of their team’s ineptness, and likewise, I think managers get far too much credit when their team is playing well.
Steve,
I hear you and I agree 100%. But there is another element here and it is the element of expectations. Organizations who are expecting their teams to win every season are not sated with almost-runs, like the Twins are. This franchise, since ‘92 had way too many almost-runs and even more flops not to make a change. Finally, the people of Minnesota gave the Twins a new stadium. This is a strong vote of confidence in my book. Is this team’s senior management ready to deliver a message of ‘thank you’ and ‘we will do our part’ vs. the ‘we are trying every season and playing good fundamental ball’ and ‘it’s ok if all we win is the division, but we play hard’ messages of the last few years?
That’s my whole point. The fans/people/state made a message. The Twins have to follow. If this team does not win, Gardy and his coaches should be gone
period
Only one major complaint in Gardy’s entire tenure as a coach. You are a homer. And since i’ve become a regular poster, I don’t recall a single time you’ve made a negative post on in game moves by Gardy. I put a lot of onus on players to do their jobs. but gardy is not perfect. he has made plenty of bad in game moves. So I ask you again, name one that you recognize and have posted outside of the 2005 or 2006 playoffs. I don’t think you can, and that makes you a homer. Prove me wrong.
The relief pitchers should be able to get hitters out, whether they are facing left or right hitters. Breslow hasn’t pitched much in pressure situations. He’s been a mop up guy. My conclusion is that the relief pitchers, just didn’t get the job done, tonight. Sometimes that happens.
You are a homer
And you cherry pick posts. I’ve admitted my mistakes in the past and have voiced my disagreements with decisions in the past.
You just choose to ignore them, as demonstrated below…
I don’t recall a single time you’ve made a negative post on in game moves by Gardy.
And I don’t recall a single time you ever used the letter ‘X’ in a post.
Aren’t memories fun?
I don’t think you can, and that makes you a homer. Prove me wrong.
I wanted Buscher and Kubel to be everyday players since they started getting regular time in 2006. I wanted this team to do what it could to bring in Aaron Rowand.
I was disappointed that this team couldn’t get Kennedy or Hughes from the Yankees (boy does that look stupid in retrospect) and originally thought “Gomez who”
I’m not going to start trouncing through Strib posts to fill in your swiss cheesed memory.
Like I keep saying…time and time again…sorry I don’t repeat my complaints day in and day out as the popular trend tends to be.
Mr.thrylos, Like I said, I respect your posts more than just about any others and have said so. IMHO the Twins coaching staff is grossly over rated (and I have said that before) and fails to anticipate the opponents next move in a timely manner. MN fans are nice people with traditionally moderate expectations and, therefore, demand little. I’m not seeking perfection just professional competence. To all, like I posted earlier, we are not playing the AAAA NL anymore and can’t afford to make silly mistakes that can and do cost us games.
PS: JP, I think you’re actually BC or Jason.
Prove me wrong.
I agree with your point, Thrylos. I’m sick of always getting to the postseason and then coming up short. It’s the kind of things that NBA coaches get fired for every year, and happens to a lot of baseball managers as well (though not to the same degree I don’t say, but maybe that’s just personal perception).
I agree that Gardenhire has been given a long leash (look how quickly Randloph got the axe after the Mets collapsed). I feel like Gardenhire’s big problem is that he, along with the organization, gets content too easily.
“Well we’re playing .550 ball” shouldn’t be acceptable if it’s going to take .600 ball to get to the postseason (random example).
He gets these ideas into his head (Gomez has to lead off, Mauer has to bat 3, etc.) and gets stubborn and complacent with them.
I agree that in the midst of a hot stretch like this, changing the lineup isn’t a good idea, but keep in mind how little Gardenhire changed the lineup when we had lost 7 of 8. The only thing he did there was bench Young for a day, which I think is terrible since he’d already been benched after the KC series and is arguably the most important young player on this team. He needs to show confidence in him.
Gardenhire gets too complacent to be above average, just like Terry Ryan did at the trade deadline and in the offseason. Sometimes, management needs to shake things up in a big way, and that’s not something the Twins are known for.
I think that needs to change, and Gardenhire could do it at any day, but never seems to want to. I think if the Twins start slipping more towards a .500 team in the next few days, the lineup needs to be changed a bit, and i the trend continues, a move needs to be made for a third baseman.
Buscher is a nightmare in the field. The three things I look for in 3B are offensive production, range, and his arm. If he struggles in one of those categories but is phenomenal in the other two, it can sometimes be overlooked. Buscher’s throws and zero range are just unacceptable though, and unless he can hit .500 to make up for it, I don’t think it’s worth the runs it’ll wind up costing us. He didn’t even MOVE for that RBI single through the left side tonight.
I wandered off-topic slightly there, haha, but to sum it up: I agree. Being content with above average isn’t ok when it takes something great to get the job done.
I’m not going to start trouncing through Strib posts to fill in your swiss cheesed memory.
ROTFL. You still haven’t listed an in game move. Yes you’ve admitted opinions on players that were wrong, or front office mistakes. You wanted to see specific players get playing time counter to what Gardy was doing. How big of you. And I’m not one who carries complaints day in or day out. For the record I think Gardy is a good manager, for the most part he gets his teams to overachieve. That speaks volumes, but he makes in game mistakes. And when I, a die hard fan, calls him out on one its absurd to always see you quoting and always defending. I’m wasting my energy.
JP,
To be fair to T, he brought up Gardenhire pulling Ford for Kubel in 2004 and pulling Balfour in that series as well.
You still haven’t listed an in game move.
Are you serious? You want me to dig through 2 years worth of game threads, post game discussions to find posts for you?
Get real. Grow up. All those fun cliches.
You want to see me point out mistakes? Pay attention. Though I usually don’t make it a habit to call it a mistake when I know the outcome and they didn’t.
I suppose if you want I can start bolding them to you. Maybe you should include a website or email address I can send them to so you can have a handy reference.
I’m guessing from your comments that your at least an adult, which means you shouldn’t need me to hold your hand through a game discussion.
And wow…an overall disagreement with the way Gardy assembled his roster to start the season isn’t good enough for you?
Wow, you really are picky. Why do I get the feeling even if I do what you ask and pull out posts from the last two years you’ll find some excuse to dismiss them.
Oh, and also…I’ve changed my request. I no longer want you to prove your not Jason or BC.
I want you to prove you aren’t me.
Chop chop.
Steve, I think the playoff situations for the most part have been a reflection on poor front office management.
Gardy went into 2006 with the same roster that kicked butt in 2006. (The only difference being he didn’t have Liriano and instead had Phil Nevin)
I think that’s part of why TR resigned. He realzied that his ways of doing things cost the team Hunter and Santana…and that while he may be suited for building a young team, he had failed to show he could make the right moves to transition a young team to a contending team.
Steve I wasn’t around to read those posts from almost 4 years ago. But i guess Gardy hasn’t made any in game mistakes since then. although me thinks you’re being sarcastic.
i do think Gardy does well motivating his players and i do predict that they come out and give a good effort tomorrow.
PS: I’ve also suggested on multiple occasions that Gardy could “shake things up” by trying Young or Monroe (anybody not named Mauer) in the #3 spot.
If not because they’re “hot-hitting”, than at least to see if they’ll benefit from having a guy with Mauer’s ability to get on base hitting ahead of them and a legit power threat in Morneau coming up behind them.
But to be fair, I suggested it while they were sucking it up in 3rd place.
I think at this point a trade is needed to bring in something for either 3B or DH (depending on what’s given up to bring in the new blood)
I’d also REALLY like to see “addition by subtraction” in the case of Lamb, and Punto (though I REALLY don’t know who they have right now that could take over as a defensive replacement or even bench option…Macri?)
“You still haven’t listed an in game move.
Are you serious? You want me to dig through 2 years worth of game threads, post game discussions to find posts for you?”
How about from this year? You had a very sharp memory from when people were upset about Perkins not being pulled against the Red Sox. In fact you brought it up for a week later. I’m not into second guessing either. Thats why I clearly posted my Nathan arguement well in advance of the top of the 8th inning.
“Why do I get the feeling even if I do what you ask and pull out posts from the last two years you’ll find some excuse to dismiss them”
As I posted earlier, you do it and I will be the first to admit I was wrong.
But i guess Gardy hasn’t made any in game mistakes since then.
If you’re going to continue to insist that I dig through (is it four years now?) of back posts to prove your point for you….have fun with that.
While you’re at it, care to answer my challenge and prove you aren’t me?
Hey New and Improved Craig, Then why did they bring in both Breslow and Bass in the ninth? A one run differential is a one run differential, right? Again, day late/dollar short. Potentially a realistic WIN turns into a realistic LOSS. I guess that’s why they have these blogs, for sharp guys like the two of us, hey?
P.S. All your suggestions like Monroe to shake things up, are not in game moves.
the playoff situations for the most part have been a reflection on poor front office management.
Like killing Nathan out there for 2+ innings on one occasion and bringing in Rincon to face Sierra on another. Or start LeCroy as a DH on multiple occasions. Yeap. The front office strong armed Gardy into those…
As I posted earlier, you do it and I will be the first to admit I was wrong.
Why should I bother wasting my time to scan through two years of posts to prove your point for you when you can just as easily swap names and come back at me with something else the next day?
You don’t respect me, that’s pretty much obvious by the riddiculous request.
I can’t prove that I’m not you. Don’t know where you’re going with that one.
The front office strong armed Gardy into those…
Thanks for reminding me of the 2 inning Nathan outing. I was too miffed after the Kubel AB to remember that one I guess.
bringing in Rincon to face Sierra on another
That’s the same one as “pulling Balfour”…at least from what I recall it went Santana/Belfour/Rincon/Lohse…
All your suggestions like Monroe to shake things up, are not in game moves.
See, your request is riddiculously specific. Here I am pointing out large roster related mistakes that potentially cost our team far more than one game…and you want specific games he cost us.
This is the perfect example of the ludicrous mindset some posters get in.
No team ever wins 162 games. The goal of the manager and front office is to make the right moves to win the most games possible in the long run.
What’s a bigger mistake? Taking Lamb as the starting 3B and costing the team months worth of games? Or not pulling a pitcher at the exact right moment in one game and costing that specific game.
Come back to me when you get your priorities straight.
JP,
4 years ago? T made that comment 30 minutes ago, referring to how he disagreed with Gardy’s decisions from the 2004 postseason.
Haha, come on, give me SOME credit. I may be on the Strib blogs at 11:45 at night, but I’m not gonna go dig through 4 years worth of posts to defend someone in an argument I’m not even a part of, haha.
Don’t know where you’re going with that one.
Just throwing an unreasonable burden of proof at your feet. Isn’t it fun?
Don’t scan two years of posts. Scale it back. Name one time this year you’ve posted a complaint with an in game move. You’ve proven you’re a smart guy with the Perkins situation.
And to cool this down a little, I have no respect that for what appears to be your blatant defense of Gardy in game moves. Other than that, you’ve posted interesting baseball analysis, and i’ve agreed many times and if I haven’t posted my enough I apologize. I guess I should skip your posts during game time and a) either ignore your responses to my in game posts or b) not post.
To build off of Steve’s point.
Why do I name events from the 2004 playoffs and not specific games this season?
Maybe it’s because those were playoff games and thus in my mind the significance was amplified. Thus I remember it.
Meanwhile a handful of games in a fairly forgetful 2007 tick me off for the evening and then are forgotten by the end of the year.
ok folks,
tomorrow is another day and i hope that the Twins will 16-0. But can we all agree (without personal attacks) that this was an atrocious management of the bullpen?
PS: 2006, Gardy starts Phil Nevin of all people as the DH in Game 1.
That one came back to me recently. Still not this season, but again…it’s the scope of the situation.
Just throwing an unreasonable burden of proof at your feet. Isn’t it fun?
I can name several times this year I’ve defended Gardy’s in game moves and several times I’ve been critical. I’m asking you to do the same. Don’t thinks thats an unreasonble burdend of proof. And furthermore an unreasonable burden of proof is quite different than an impossible burden of prove. Wouldn’t you agree?
thry, I see this as the A-Squad having a bad day. I really do.
My bigger complaint regarding the recent stretch (take note JP) is that Gardy didn’t take Cuddy’s injury as an opportunity to try some different lineups.
Yeah yeah…don’t mess with a hot thing…but that hot thing was forcibly messed with.
Pretty sure I mentioned that when the Saturday lineups were posted. I was AT that game so you probably wouldn’t have heard it commented on at game time.
“ok folks,
tomorrow is another day and i hope that the Twins will 16-0. But can we all agree (without personal attacks) that this was an atrocious management of the bullpen?”
my sentiments exactly. i even posted that i believe gardy, with a good track record of it, will get this team ready to play after a very disapointing loss.
And I DO consider lineups to be game-decisions. The first in-game decision he makes is who goes out there to hit.
Haha, I love having no side in this debate…
I’ll actually defend that decision by Gardenhire. Nevin was an experienced veteran who was 6-17 lifetime off Barry Zito with 3 home runs, a 2B, and 5 RBI. I want those stats in my lineup in the postseason.
Ryan didn’t give him much, but that trade gave him at least one great matchup in the postseason. Big Papa Phil just didn’t come through.
“My bigger complaint regarding the recent stretch (take note JP) is that Gardy didn’t take Cuddy’s injury as an opportunity to try some different lineups.
Yeah yeah…don’t mess with a hot thing…but that hot thing was forcibly messed with.
Pretty sure I mentioned that when the Saturday lineups were posted. I was AT that game so you probably wouldn’t have heard it commented on at game time.”
Sorry T, those are not in game decisions.
in game decisions are:
a) pitching changes
b) basestealing, hit n runs.
c) take and swing away calls
d) defensive replacement choices
e) pinch hitting changes
f) etc, IN GAME DECISIONS
Guess we can agree to disagree with that
JP,
don’t let me started with that good track record of [Gardy’s management of the pen]</I]
All I hope is that Baker will have a good game tomorrow and someone will not have 5 relievers warming up at the 7th again.
Yeah Steve, I’m never a fan of “vs.” matchups like that.
At least not when it coems to 17 lifetime ABs.
Sorry T, those are not in game decisions.
And like I say. That’s the problem. The bigger problems (the ones that really bother me) are overall managment of the roster. What those have to do with in-game decisions is irrelevant…considering that on a day to day basis I’m accused of being the mouthpiece of the Twins.
That’s the issue I take with people here 9 times out of 10. I get so much crap because of some belief that I never find fault.
Then I find fault, and it’s dismissed/forgotten because it’s not “enough”.
You wanted complaints, I gave you complaints. In-game, roster, whatever. Those are my primary concerns.
And that someone would at least pinch hit for the light hitters at the bottom of the 8th in crucial situations or would give the fast runners a green light, etc. etc. etc…
c) take and swing away calls
Oh jeez…can somebody else testify to how often I get on a hitter to “NOT SEEK THE TREASURE” or some other variation of taking/swing away.
My biggest pet peeve is when a hitter comes up after a 4-0 walk (or multiple walks) and makes one or more outs on the first pitch of an AB.
I’ve gone as far as to recommend that any combination of Ulger/White/Gardy/TC phyiscally remove the bat from a hitters hand to prevent them from swinging at pitches in certain counts.
Mr thrylos, (11:45 pm post) AMEN!! Living in the West, I have a certain need to vent before shut-eye time and am sorry if I go on and on. So said, let’s look forward to tomorrow and hope that this loss has had more of an effect on us than our favorite players. Thanks for the feedback, gentleman, and keep up the good stuff, Ms. Nora.
“are overall managment of the roster. What those have to do with in-game decisions is irrelevant”
I will defend Gardy that he has overchieved the majority of the time with the pieces he has been given. But cmon, the choices you make in the game are very important otherwise anyone could manage. and i will post when i consider that gardy has made an incorrect choice. i mitigate that often to minimize second guessing. but as i said before the Twins were done hitting, they needed to be ready for the 8th inning. that to me is a in game decision that was incorrect. i posted that. the funny thing was that you agreed nathan should be ready, so i don’t understand why you can’t say that the bullpen was mismanaged tonight.
I think that under certain circumstances they should be disregarded (for example… Monroe this year was 2-9 with a HR off Joel Peralta in that ridiculous comeback and Gardy went with him as a result), but hitting 3 home runs off a guy in under 20 ABs means you’re seeing something other guys aren’t, especially a top-tier pitcher like Zito (well, top-tier at the time).
overall management of the roster
Agree with that. Like when this team was short on bats twice (once early in the season when it took them 5 days to get Slowey to the DL and once when they had to have 13 pitchers) or when they bring up the wrong people like Span instead of Macri/McDonald/Ruiz or when they have to have Bass in the majors because he is out of options or when people like Santos and Pino are on the 40-man roster etc…
But… Gardy is practically inept in game management. He never pinch hits. He is not in touch with how his pitchers are performing and what they have left. He has these misconstrued opinions about people (like Monroe is a bench guy and should not start, but let’s call up Span and have him start despite stinking up the place last time) etc.
I think that the latter are a bit more hurtful to this team.
“I’ve gone as far as to recommend that any combination of Ulger/White/Gardy/TC phyiscally remove the bat from a hitters hand to prevent them from swinging at pitches in certain counts.”
and if the Ulger/White/Gardy/TC didn’t do that then that would be a VALID criticism of those managers. and after the fact where they didn’t put those calls in there, did you post your criticsm of the managers or just the players? if you criticized the managers and i missed it, then you have my apology.
PS: JP, you ever notice me saying something along the lines of “That sucked”
Yeah, that’s me regeretting the results of the decision.
Why don’t I consider it a mistake? Because how can I call something a mistake when I didn’t offer a suggestion myself?
It’s the same reason I don’t call Gardy a genius when a pitching change or PH decision pays off… (that’s when you’ll usually see something like “Well that certainly was unexpected”)
So yeah, I don’t jump down Gardy’s throat when a decision doesn’t pan out. But you’ll also note I don’t give him much in the way of credit when a decision pans out.
Ex: Monroe’s PH homerun in KC. Or the Cuddy PH in Milwuakee.
In most situations, I credit/admonish the players. Call it a fault, but at the same time I’m consistent.
did you post your criticsm of the managers or just the players?
I don’t know. I can’t tell what signs are being put down from the living room. So it’s difficult to judge if it’s overall player impatience (Hunter), or a poor “swing away” call (Morneau)
There are a number of occasions where I’ve also commented that on more than one occasion that a particular “send” was in poor taste as it took the bat out of a players hand (or forced a player to swing at a less than stellar pitch to “defend” the runner)
I’m racking my brain here JP, but I believe it was in New York last year where Bartlett tried to steal 2nd. He got the base…but Mauer was rung up as he was swinging at the pitch.
I think those are the “contact” plays? I don’t know the specific name. I hate those in general and detest seeing them called.
fair enough. but that is where you are different from most other posters and perhaps why you grate me at times. again i put the onus on the players most of the time too (and i call them out saying “awful AB by Kubel”), but there are times when gardy made the right choice and it didn’t work out (and i’ve defended him) and he makes the wrong choice and i’ve criticized him, like tonight. and i think tonights handeling of the bullpen absolutely contributed to the loss.
hit n runs?
contact plays are sending the runner from third with less than two outs on contact at the plate.
i’m in vegas so its only 10:14 here so i’ve got nothing to do but post. hahahaha guess i’m the homer.
BTW contact plays drive me crazy. always seems to be hit right to the third baseman or SS and get tagged out. see buscher’s play last week.
Maybe it is the hit n’ run. Though it seems more often than not it was an attempt at a straight steal.
Though it could seem that way because the hitter (usually it’s when they do this in front of Mauer or Morneau that it gets to me) is swinging at such an awful pitch because the HnR is being called for.
Yay for LENIII’s blog becoming the next Access Vikings Rant Zone! Let’s attack everyone personally for a BLOG comment. Jesus.
Gardy has to pick his battles, and I think the “bench warning” one is a winner. I cheered when he was ejected for standing up against the B.S. that the warning was.
Hey, T, is simply isn’t fair for you to request JP to prove a negative. Those kind of requests are saved for people to use when they expect us to prove something that is unprovable. (Like if the Twins had Santana and Garza, they would be running away with the division)
Can’t possibly expect them to reply to a method of questioning that they consider reasonable.
Too bad I didn’t get here sooner to get in on the fun, but I can say this much, JP is sounding alot like BC Benke, and that much is clear to me.
BTW, I normally don’t comment negatively on the in-game decisions. I am more of a reply to other people’s negative comments, when I don’t think that they are warranted. Kinda like when Jason went all out on Gardy for pinch-hitting for Redmond and losing the DH, when obviously it is more important to get the game tied, than it is to worry about keeping the DH available the next time he would be up to bat(remember Jason, he would be batting 2 innings later at the soonest) or when everyone was critizing Gardy for not pitching Nathan for the 10th. inning when they were in the middle of a 10 game stretch of games (the very next day, KC basically lost because their closer wasn’t available to pitch against the Twins. I remember those games very, very well, since I was in KC for that series, and read all the comments afterward. Fact is, Gardy got burned by pitching Nathan for 2 innings twice, and it would seem he learned from that experience. If people can’t understand that some decisions are ingrained from experience, so be it, but the idea of pitching Nathan for 2 innings is one that Gardy shies away from for good reason.
BTW, the bullpen didn’t do it’s job. If the “A” team wasn’t gonna get it done, well, what else can be said. They put the Twins best pitchers in there to protect the lead, they didn’t, and once the lead is gone, well, the best pitchers need to come out, since they need to be available again. You don’t pitch every reliever every day you know. Just to get them up to warm up takes a day off the back end.
I was at the game last night and am wondering why Perkins was taken out in the 7th. Funny thing is when he was yanked I had a feeling they would loose. It reminded me of the game in KC when Blackburn was yanked in the 9th.
After Gardy was tossed you could tell Perkins was on a mission and started to shut Detoilet down. Perkins wasn’t in trouble yet in the 7th and had only 91 pitches (1 out and a guy at 1st, Guillen due up). He had handled Detoilet fairly easy and seemed to be on a short leash for some reason. I think if Perkins was left in to finnish the 7th, or at least untill he was in trouble (I think he gets out of it) the bullpen starts the 8th and fairs better
Edgar Renteria was due up not Guillen.
Still shouldn’t have been taken out in my opinion till he’s in trouble much like the Blackburn game in KC
Yeah, I think that ejection was building for Gardy…considering he’s probably incredibly frustrated following the Runge “Thing”.
And Me Too actually reminds me of one of those “controversial” decisions that I didn’t agree with.
In that “infamous” KC game where Young gave up the 3-run intheparker, I defended Gardy going to Nathan…but was disappointed he didn’t do it sooner.
I’m one of those people that believes if you’ve got a save situation, you’ve got your closer. And if the starter (Even if he’s on a tear) falls apart in that inning, you’ve got nobody to blame but yourself for not using the guy paid to handle those situations.
I was just thinking…
If Span was picked to be in the Futures Game, but now he’s with the big club, does he forfeit his spot on the team?
Or is that only if he’s still with the club when the game is played?
Twins are now playing a team of much higher caliber then the NL feastings they have munched on.. this 4 series stretch will determine how good these team is and if it can truly contend for the division this year
T - you are entitled to your opinions - you just always come off like you think you’re the smartest, most rational person in the room.
LaVelle,
I must congratulate you on the stellar quality of posters on your blog.
Particularly, the massive number of ACTIVE Major League managers who comment here (unfortunately for me, under assumed names).
Could you do me a favor and OUT these Managers, as I can benefit financially by knowing which managers are commenting here while their own games are in progress.
Thanks for your help,
Regards,
ps: Could you do a piece about how only ONE manager of the 33 managers has made an in game error this season? It seems with PERFECTION exist EVERYWHERE else in major league baseball.
all i know is we just had a 10 gm winning streak lost and won and we need to re-do the whole lineup?
don’t think so.
FIRE, it’s kinda funny. I’ve been saying for a while the Twins playoff chances hinge on their ability to win OUTSIDE the division (as they’ve been playing fairly well within it thus far)
Considering their record against the AL West and East (see: Orioles/Jays series), I still have concerns that this team has been feasting on the Central like they feasted on the NL the last few years.
Now that they’re back in the Division with an improved Chicago (who we all got to know VERY quckly) and a Detroit team finally living up to expectations (who we may all get to know EQUALLY fast) the window of opportunity could be closing quicker than expected.
I think the ball’s in the court of the front office at this point to decide if they should make a move midseason to improve the team over the short term, or if they want to stand buy the rebuild and look to bring in long term and less certain to help push this season.
My opinion? They should look long term still. To get an immediate impact bat for this season would likely cost them youth, which is something they’re trying to build around at the moment. With Cuddy and the MIF injured….it’s likely they won’t be able to spare much in the way of Span, Buscher, Macri, Tolbert (is he going to be healthy in time), and the like. Though it depends on what they’d be looking to bring in (3B or DH for sure depending on how they play their cards).
But something needs to be done to show both the team and the fans that they recognize an unforseen opportunity has come by.
They’ve got two or three guys on the roster who I see as holding them back…or at least “breaking even” comparred to what else they have available. (Lamb, Monroe, Punto, Livan, Boof…so maybe more than 3)
The three divisional series leading up to the ASG are a blessing for the FO, as they’ll see how the team measures up to Detroit/Cleveland…and after The Thumping at the Cell we have an idea what this team needs to push past the Palehose.
Monroe is the one I can see as expendable. Pick up a DH who might accidently get hot. If not, were not out anything. Lamb, Punto, Livan, and Boof are proven major leaguers, quit laughing, and with bad luck we could REALLY get someone worse.
I heard a story about Ken Griffey Jr. and how he is a very quiet guy, good in the clubhouse, not a hot head. Never thought about him being that way. Sounds like he might accept a trade to the AL, where he started, to finish his career as a DH.
It would cost a gazillion bucks, but THAT would make things exciting for a while!
The coaching staff should have done this,should not have done that .Hindsight is always 20/20.If Go-Go can ever learn to lay off that slider low and away,he will be a heck of a ballplayer.He had the same problem with the Mets last year,so you can’t blame Vavra exclusively.Were are all the monday morning QB’s in regards to Kyle Lohse?
[…] III, who appears to have the most complicated name in the A.L. Central beat writers’ circle, wrote in the Star Tribune that Jason Kubel will sit tonight while Craig Monroe gets the start. Kubel […]
Lohse was turning into a headcase in MN. Rincon was going the same route (at least on the mound)
I think it was due in part to Rincon having been *this* close to being traded away. It didn’t sit well with him to know his standing with the team.
It took Lohse this long to get good. It’s not like Ortiz where he left the Twins and EXPLODED immediately.
Sorta like Guzman and the contract year he’s having.
T, “Turning”, is that what you call taking a bat to the managers door, throwing the players in the field under the bus, for not making a play. The guy has definite issues. He has definitely had a good year so far, but, it being Lohse, I can see it imploding soon too.
Check out some solid Twins discussion on “Sports on Demand”
http://media.myfoxtwincities.com/livestream/webcast/archive.htm
T says:
June 30th, 2008 at 10:32 pm
It’s funny, Gardy’s a genious during a 10-game winning streak.
Um…besides yourself, who ever so much as insinuated that Gardy is or ever was a genious????
I Think we all realized that Lohse had the potential.it took La Ressa(sp)to finally bring it out!
