Twins Friday: Punto likely will miss series
Posted on July 18th, 2008 – 3:43 PMBy La Velle
4:44 Update: Nick Punto tonight will receive a cortisone shot in his sprained left ring finger. Since it takes a couple days for the shot to take effect, Punto probably will miss the series.
It’s too bad the diagnosis couldn’t have been made in Detroit, so he could have gotten a shot there and be ready for this series. But it sounds like no one expected Punto to still have problems with it when he returned from break.
5:17 update: Michael Cuddyer tomorrow will have a MRI exam of his left hand to make sure nothing more is wrong than a strained tendon in his left index finger. There’s more mobility, he said, but it’s still sore. The Twins need Cuddyer - and healthy hands - to help hold down the middle of the order. I think more opponents will follow Jim Leyland’s lead and intentionally walk Justin Morneau when first base is open, and someone needs to punish opponents when that happens.
But the main issue is that Cuddyer is out indefinitely, and that’s not good.
Back to regular programming…..
If you have an upper deck seat in right field tonight, there are about 20 balls hit by Josh Hamilton waiting for you when the gates open
Hamilton, Ian Kinsler and the misunderstood Milton Bradley are reasons why the Rangers lead the majors in scoring.
Livan Hernandez and Dennys Reyes were excused from Thursday’s workout, in addition to the three All-Stars.
Hitting coach Joe Vavra showed up in the clubhouse before the workout and was showered with congratulations for helping Justin Morneau win the Home Run Derby. Vavra said he heard the boos when he couldn’t throw the ball over the plate but still felt a lot of energy in the stadium.
Vavra said the plan was to pitch Morneau high and on the inner half of the plate and just let him drive the ball into the stands. It worked.
“Well, we didn’t go there to finish second,” Vavra joked.
Lineups
Texas (50-46) 1. Ian Kinsler, 2B. 2. Michael Young, SS. 3. Josh Hamilton, CF. 4. Milton Bradley, DH. 5. Marlon Byrd, RF. 6. Hank Blalock, 3B. 7. Brandon Boggs, LF. 8. Chris Davis, 1B. 9. Taylor Teegarden, C. Pitching: Kevin Millwood.
Twins (53-42): 1. Carlos Gomez, CF. 2. Alexi Casilla, 2B. 3. Joe Mauer, C. 4. Home Run Derby King, 1B. 5. Jason Kubel, DH, 6. Delmon Young, LF. 7. Brian Buscher, 3B. 8. Brendan Harris, SS. 9. Denard Span, RF. Pitching: Glen Perkins.
273 Responses to "Twins Friday: Punto likely will miss series"
Punto hurt his finger sliding into first base. He just wont admit it after Tolbert’s accident.
oh yeah and first! and second!
La Velle…invite you to explain what’s “misunderstood” about Milton Bradley? The dude fought with fans when he was in Los Angeles and nearly fought with a broadcaster when he was in Kansas City.
Are you saying there’s a reasonable explanation for that or does ‘misunderstood’ simply mean ‘inappropriate’, as I would describe it?
rumor has it the twins called a press conference yesterday (perhaps to announce a move?) and then cancelled it (because the move fell apart?), any truth to this lavelle?
I lived in Harrisburg PA when Milton played for Double A Harrisburg Senators. I knew a girl who dated Milton. She would be very offended for anyone to say that he is misunderstood in any way after they way she was treated by him. WAY more than enough said about him there.
Yeah, LaVelle … “misunderstood?” Is he a buddy of yours or something? Exchanged a few jokes in the clubhouse? Why is he “misunderstood?”
This should be good.
Maybe Hank Blaylock and Eddie Guardado swap dugouts with Cuddyer, Lamb and Perkins tonight. That would be cool.
Jason
Where did you hear that the Twins were going to hold a press conference?
Mr. Gardenhire really insulted Liriano by implying to reporters that if they went to Rochester to see him pitch, they would not think he is ready for the big leagues. I think his remarks were a big mistake. Gardenhire is getting more irrational with his statements all the time. Gardenhire’s foolish words were in response to the fact that Liriano’s agent believes the Twins are keeping Liriano in the minors in order to prevent him from arbitration status and from having to pay him about one million dollars more in 2009. That appears to be exactly what the Twins are doing, and Gardenhire is being the organization’s lip boy by making obsurd statements about Liriano’s performance and ability. Gardenhire can’t even make out the starting lineup card without help. I think it is about time for the team to have a really good Manager like Stan Cliburn from Rochester. Mr. Gardenhire could benefits by the Twins organization getting him some mental health counseling.
Tyler:
On Access Vikings someone posted a “Favre Signs With Vikings” story that couldn’t be verified.
No offense, Jason, I hope it’s true, but I don’t THINK you can believe everything you read here.
harold must be Liriano’s agent.
harold, Gardy speaks the truth. Liriano is in Rochester because he failed to show up to Spring Training on time or in shape. He should have never been up with the big club at any time this year. That was the mistake made. He was terrible for the Twins and only recently has he been good at AAA. This Gardy that sucks so bad and has mental problems, as you say, has his club who was picked to finish last still in contention at the All Star break.
Why is all this on Gardy?
Last I checked, it was the general manager who makes roster moves.
Will Punto be in tonight’s lineup? Inquiring minds want to know. Lavelle reported, “He had a MRI and X-Ray taken of his sprained left ring finger (he doesn’t know how he hurt it).”
Didn’t A-Rod sprain that one also, yanking his wedding ring off before going out on the town? And NO, I’m not going to ask him myself when his team plays us Monday.
Why was Livan & Reyes excused? Could it be they’re packing for Seattle?
JASE:
“harold must be Liriano’s agent.”
(quit it you’re making my guts ache LMAO)
Milton Bradley is a disgrace to baseball, and to men in America. He and Carl Everett need to have a competition to see who can be the worst human being of the last 20 years in baseball. Bradley’s character is right there with Canseco, and Darryl Strawberry.
Am I the only one who implied the word “misunderstood” was sarcastic?
Tony, I didn’t take it that way. That’s why I invited La Velle to explain it.
Milton Bradley is a good American!
I bet everyone in this blog has played and enjoyed one of his fine games many times.
there must be some mystery elves boring into player’s hands and fingers going after connective tissue while they sleep because neither Cuddy or Punto know how they actually got hurt. I wonder if the hand ‘injuries’ would go down if Gardy banned Guitar Hero from the clubhouse?
Liriano lied to the team in 06 about his health, and ended up out for the season, and possibly costing them the world series.
He didn’t do his training here in the states like he was asked to do on several occasions by the team.
He came in late to spring training.
He pitched like Sidney Ponson doing his best John Butcher impersonation this spring, and was still rushed up here.
He pitched like crap was sent down and the Twins are on a roll.
You have 4 young pitchers pitching well… gonna take one of them out of the rotation?
Livan Hernandez is the only veteran on the staff, and dispite he ERA he does lead the team in victories, and have you seen who it is that he has beaten, and when he has beaten them? Livan is a big game pitcher, and we are on the docket for a nice chunk of change for his contract with a historically cheapass ownership here in Minnesota.
Liriano also received a lot of Major League service time on his contract while he was injured, and not rehabbing properly… So maybe this is just KARMA coming back to haunt him for being immature?
Livan is a big game pitcher? I disagree. I would agree with “Livan is a big pitcher”.
ME ME ME said Liriano and his agent.
Shawn…
Shaking my head… cute comment.
And yes I took LaVelle’s comment as sarcasm. Anyone that’s ever read his work, or listens to him on KFAN knows he’s got a twisted sense of humor about certain things… I mean he’s a Bears fan… you have to get a little saracstic and cynical as a Bears fan.
(just giving you grief LaVelle)
I just couldn’t help myself… Bradley is a jerk… right there with Rickey Henderson… I can’t believe I forgot him when I was mentioning other idiots in baseball.
I still think Liriano is going to be traded
If the Twins got high end value for Liriano, I’d be for trading him.
well, maybe I don’t know him as well as you do, BC, but for the record, he was quick to come to the aid of Torii Hunter when Hunter blew up at that AAA beat writer in Spring Training, as you might recall (La Velle basically shrugged it off and said there was a lot going on and the incident was misunderstood)
I think LEN3’s use of “misunderstood” was more tounge-in-cheek. I believe that was Bradley’s own word for the whole mess.
well, in that case, I stand corrected, T
I bet everyone in this blog has played and enjoyed one of his fine games many times.
I hear Milton himself excells at Trouble. Though he struggles when it comes time to play Sorry.
…based on what we’ve seen the first half of this year, he’s been playing Chutes and Ladders the last calendar year as well.
Livan Hernandez and Dennys Reyes were excused from Thursday’s workout, in addition to the three All-Stars.
Gee with the lack of backing up home plate, Livan really should not have been excused. He needs the work
For those curious about the “misunderstood” Milton Bradley, one of the ‘Rangers beat writers, from the Dallas Morning News, delves into this topic on today’s DMN website.
this in si this afternoon:
If you look at Beltre’s career without the 2004 season, he appears to be one of the most consistent players in the game. That year, in which he hit 47 homers for the Dodgers before signing a $65 million contract, skews the perception of him. Add in that he has played his entire career in two great pitchers’ parks and that his defense is legitimately great, and you have a player who has become a bit undervalued. Given where the market has gone, the $19 million or so left on his deal through 2009 isn’t a daunting commitment.
The leaguewide depth at third base is impressive, but one contender has spent the year trying to patch a gaping hole there. The Twins have used seven players at the hot corner, and only the empty .300 average of Brian Buscher has been of much use. Their third-base defense has been terrible as well.
Beltre would add value on both sides of the ball, one of the few trade-deadline targets who can make that claim. His .272 EqA would make him one of the better hitters in the Twins lineup, at least a 15-run upgrade over Buscher for the rest of the season. His glove would save at least five runs over the last 70 games. That’s a 20-25 run gain by trading for Beltre.
For the Twins, the best part is that they might be able to get him for just a willingness to assume the contract obligation. The Twins have a raft of pitching prospects in the minors to go with their homegrown major-league rotation. Two second-tier ones and, effectively, $19 million would probably be enough to get Beltre. It is unlike the Twins to make that kind of trade, but they can certainly afford it — every team can afford that kind of investment — and it’s a move that would go right to their win column. That Beltre is such a good defensive player, the kind of player the Twins have always wanted around, could be the deciding factor.
The Twins can’t count on an anomalous performance with runners in scoring position to continue. To win the AL Central, they have to improve the roster.
Trading for Beltre and swapping out Livan Hernandez for Francisco Liriano would change the story in the AL Central immediately.
BC,
I think that you typically have good points and know your stuff, but we’ve seen exactly who Livan has beaten. Kansas City twice, Arizona once, Washington once, Cleveland once, the offensively bipolar Tigers, and the White Sox when they were in an awful slump, having lost 6 out of 7.
He pitched a good game on Opening Day and a decent game against the Red Sox in his win with them (had some great defense behind him in that game, though that applies to other pitchers too, so I won’t resort to that as a legitimate point).
Royals, Royals, Nationals, Diamondbacks, Indians… five wins against five pitiful offenses.
For the record, he’s also been demolished by both the Royals and Indians as well.
I get that people are concerned about the durability of our young arms, but I don’t see how people can keep defending Livan…
Milton is getting the “Monopoly” of posts at this time
Steve,
Did you intentionally leave out Boston? I mean you aught to be heralding that bottom rund team.
Regards,
Dragon,
Did you read my post? I didn’t leave out Boston. I just referred to them by their apparently lesser-known name… the “Red Sox.” 
Regards to you as well.
If Punto hasn’t played since Saturday and is out the series, shouldn’t they DL him?
Shawn, my guess is that they aren’t putting Punto on the DL because he definitely wouldn’t be back until the White Sox series. It is kind of a risk to take however if he doesn’t respond to the cortizone shot.
7 out of 10
The nice thing is, since he hasn’t played in awhile, they can always place him on the DL retroactively… that’s probably what they’re waiting to do, I’d guess.
hopefully they watch it daily
The Twins could win the pennant before the trading deadline by trading Bonser, Bass, Hernandez, Punto, Redmond and Cuddyer for a solid additional relief pitcher. Span and Liriano plus a new solid relief pitcher is all the team needs.
I like how “The Big Sweat” and “Senior Smoke” the two fattest guys on the team get excused from working out. I’d get their lazy butts running.
That would leave a pretty empty bench.
Sean,
maybe the Twins are afraid it would kill them.
Jack,
Livan and Punto have no trade value right now. Bonser has quite a bit I’d say, Bass has less. The Twins wouldn’t trade Redmond, and likely won’t trade Cuddyer either (despite Charley Walters’ scenario). His injuries this season and big contract aren’t appealing anyway.
People continue to forget that Span’s had a whopping two good weeks at the Major League level. He can tank in a heartbeat. He IS 0 for his last 8. For those who say that doesn’t mean much… why is it significant when he goes 3-8 over a two-game period then…?
I’d pay to watch Livan run a 400m, 800m, or 1600m before I paid to watch him pitch a baseball game. Haha… I agree, why was he excused from the workout?
Yeah if I was a GM I’d take Punto, Hernandez, Redmend, Bass, Bonser & Cuddyer too. BUT only if they included Mike Lamb and Adam Everett in the deal as well. Oh and Randy Ruiz I would want a “top” prospect as well. Maybe Philly would pull that for Chase Utley and Brad Lidge?
It’s amazing how trading all those guys for a reliever and then bringing up 5 guys from AAA makes our second place, 11 games over .500 team a division winner.
goobledy,
Nice article from SI.The problem is it might make to much sense.I personally think tomorrows start for Livan is a big one.If he pitches like he has recently tomorrow night,the Twins would have to seriously consider Lirianos recall.
I really like the thought of Beltre behind Morneau, and I agree with the SI article that it may not cost as much as some think to acquire him.Failing that,there are other 3B options out there.However I still think the Twins need help in the bullpen as well.
Texas is going to murder Big Belly Hernandez. They did once already. I mean for Hamilton it’s just like the Home Run Derby with what Hernandez is throwing. That 70 y/o probably threw harder at the Derby then Big Belly can throw in a game.
Save Hernandez for KC or TOR he might have a chance.
i’m hoppin that the 4days off will help Gomez and ithink it will
Steve, apologies…I read it, then looked at the list and it was missing from the list, oversight I’m sure.
Just thought it would be interesting to see the quality of the teams Liriano has been pitching against.
7/17 Norfolk (41-58)
7/10 Durham (52-47)
7/5 Buffalo (44-56)
6/30 Lehigh Valley (40-59)
6/25 Louisville (57-42)
6/20 Indianapolis (46-53)
So using your logic, in his 4 games of wonderment, he pitched against 1 team above .500, and 2 cellar dwellers, and Buffalo a team which is worse than Rochester in their own division.
Please explain how Livan should be castigated for beating bad MLB teams, and Liriano should be celebrated for beating bad AAA teams?
Regards,
Time to bite the bullet, Smith, admit you screwed up with Lamb, Everett and Monroe, cut the 3 of them. Then trade El Cheseburger Bonser to a National League team hurting for a starter and willing to take a chance. Finally pakage Cuddyer and Phillip Humber to Seattle for Beltre. The moves are too easy not to be made. Instead Smith is going to continue with the terrible threesome and also have Gardy keep sending Livan out there to prove he was right about Hernandez.
Bill “McHale” Smith is a joke.
Guardado and Blalock for Cuddyer and Perkins? Wow that’s a lopsided trade, even if the Rangers take Lamb off our hands. Guardado is about done while Perkins is just starting what should be a long and fruitful career.
I would not trade Cuddyer for Blalock straight up. Blalock’s carer OPS+ is 103. Cuddyer’s is 106. If it were dead even, I would prefer the right-handed hitter on this team.
Dragon,
Come on now, honestly… one run over 29 innings. I don’t care who it’s against - that is flat out impressive.
Also, those teams’ records don’t speak about their offense. I don’t know how they are offensively, honestly, and I’m not going to bother to look them up.
If you can’t admit that 29 one-run innings is impressive against ANYONE, then what’s the point in arguing?
That is a remarkable feat, regardless of what teams he plays against. In a similar fashion, 173 hits in 120 innings is also remarkable, but on the other end of the spectrum.
If you think Livan Hernandez gives us a better chance to win than Francisco Liriano, I honestly can’t even fathom a respectable way to agree to disagree with that statement, so I’m just going to pass it over. I find it simply ludicrous.
And again, as I’ve said, my biggest grievance is how Liriano, and the Twins fanbase, have been lied to by the Twins’ front office. He’s done everything he’s been asked to, and there he sits.
gobbledygoopguy at 4:51 makes so much sense…i hope the f.o. is looking….yea for sure….anyway its a good post…
GET BELTRE
Thank you, gobbledygookguy.
I could have written that article it mirrors my thoughts so perfectly. Getting Beltre and calling up Frankie would be HUGE. A reliever would help too, but I honestly think a power right handed bat is the priority. I believe it’s the difference between contending all year and dropping out of the race by September.
FREE BELTRE! I mean… ACQUIRE BELTRE!!
I’m with “dana”. I’m hoppin also. But you know what I misunderstand about Milton Bradley? It’s the “get out of jail free” cards.
That doesn’t make sense to me.
why would anyone want Blalock? He is a lefty and at this point Buscher is probably better than him…
PATRICK:
Think Sexson will do OK in New York City?
I don’t think he wouldn’t have done much here in the Twin Cities.
No Sexson in the Cities.
gomez still leading off….interesting and somewhat disappointing….i guess we will see…whats gardy so afraid of after 4 days off…change?? jesus, just try something different, it may just make the difference in winning and losing….dont let your worst hitter get the most at bats….kids in little league dont even play that damn dumb…….
Wow. I guess I haven’t been paying attention. Our team must suck if everyone is clamoring for trades, call-ups and firing Gardenhire and Bill Smith.
Steve,
I don’t disagree that Liriano is coming along well.
I just find it interesting that you took great effort to diminish Livan’s wins, yet seem to feel ill done, to be asked to explain Liriano’s excellent showing against similar level opponents in a lower League.
I follow and wager on European Soccer, and at least there most realize that teams in the 2nd or 3rd Divisions are not of the same quality of teaams in the Top Division.
Also, CMath castigated me in another thread for a sarcastic remark about Hunt.
I guess it’s easy to cherry pick supporting data.
Regards,
Jase,
Our team doesn’t suck. It’s in the same spot it’s been for a long time.
Just good enough to be a fringe playoff team and get bounced. I’d prefer to see a team with a chance to win it all.
The difference between the ALDS and a World Series title can often be one or two players…
MJI:
Did you notice the new guy batting clean up? I think they must be talking about John Jacob Jingleheimer Justin.
.303 .255 - 2005
.328 .268 - 2006
.319 .276 - 2007
.329 .259 - 2008
Check Beltre’s OBP and AVG for the last 4 seasons. The guy is a dog.
Cuddy to Seattle (for anything) is feelgood nonsense for Twins fans. Might as wee graduate to Bonsner for Ichiro, for all the sense it makes.
CRAIG:
But we don’t care about THAT!
He hit 47 homers for the Dodgers.
I’m sure he’ll repeat that if the Twinks get him!
I look at it a little different. I see a team that is far achieving expectations and we should be enjoying it. I’m not a huge Gardenhire fan, but let’s face it, our team is doing decent enought to at least give him some credit this year. Also, this is Bill Smith’s first year and yet he’s being compared to Kevin McHale. While I agree bringing up Liriano and trading for Beltre would be an improvement for this team, some people think that trading is like a video game and that you can get rid of every player they don’t like without some sort of consequence. It doesn’t work that way. I’m not for status quo, but let’s not act like this was a world series team that’s been pushed into second place because of dead weight players.
ya mudcat …thats our lavelle…
anyone else think that tonites game is very, very important or just me…to me we have a team thats just right there and hanging by threads almost….we could go down so fast and furious its scary..thats why i think we need to make a couple of moves to help this club now, dont wait for shi- to happen and spoil this nice summer run…..get my drift b.smith??
mj1,
The team is 21-7 recently. Granted that’s the bottom of the leaague for that period, not!
I love it, let’s change everything during a great run, maybe we will be 14-14 and give bloggers even more to complain about.
Regards,
Beltre is Bastista-like. Even his fielding has gone downhill. Tough to win with players like that.
Look, another Craig post. Cute.
Anyone interested in Beltre’s numbers away from the pitcher-friendly Safeco?
2005: .248/.295/.440
2006: .283/.343/.462
2007: .288/.320/.538
2008: .296/.366/.475
If you chalk 2005 up to adjusting to a new league and new set of pitchers, I’d say that’s pretty dang good. Gold glove caliber defense doesn’t hurt.
“PATRICK:
Think Sexson will do OK in New York City?
I don’t think he wouldn’t have done much here in the Twin Cities.
No Sexson in the Cities.”
Heh, I agree. Definitely no Sexson in the Cities. I think that Big Rich had a hard time handling the pressure in Seattle and that New Yorkers are going to eat him alive. For his sake I hope he starts out strong because if he strings together a couple of 0-fers he’s in trouble. He’s still got some pop in his bat, I’ve just never seen a ballplayer psyche himself out as much as Sexson has the last couple of years.
I agree with, Steve. Well said.
PATRICK:
i don’t know how you undrstood that, i had so many double negatives. sorry!
Nice numbers away from Safeco, I’d sure take that. I don’t get why everyone is so quick to jump on the Twins. Yes, I would like to see a World Series too but I would much rather cheer for a team that’s consistently good than one that is really good for two years and then sucks for 10 straight. This team is still young and we shouldn’t be looking at winning a title just this year, we should be looking at what will help us be in contention for a title for the next 3-4 years.
.330 .263 - 2005
.362 .284 - 2006
.356 .276 - 2007
.324 .252 - 2008
Cuddy’s OBP and AVG, though nothing spectacular, are better than those of Beltre the Dog.
One hour ’till tip-off. I will make a bold pre-game prediction.
1) Josh Hamilton will hit a homer.
Yep, you read that right. Remember you heard it here first.
For those who seem to take the Twins line on Liriano and point to his stats as “only against Inferior AAA Talent”.Isn’t that what got Slowey promoted? And Backburn? And Perkins?Might as well through Baker in there also.I understand the Twins being cautious with Liriano.And Hernandez deserves to be treated with respect as he has done all that the Twins could have asked.But Liariano IS ready to help and Hernandez should be on the hot seat.
The pitcher friendly Metrodome won’t help Beltre the Dog.
Beltre has the same first name as Adrian Peterson.
(boy I wish they’d start the game!)
Pro from Dover,
Yes it did, and NONE of them came in and won everything in sight, immediately.
I am very happy in how Liriano is progressing. The last time he seriously pitched in the major leagues was 2 years ago.
He may well pick up where he left off, I think that’s unlikely, and I expect he will do OK, I expect much better next year.
My argument is not that Liriano should not be in line to be called up, I argue against the sub-text that he will be hoisting the Cy Young award at the end of the year.
I readly agree Liriano should be called up for the Twins series against Norfolk, Lehigh Valley and Indianapolis, he has proven he beats them like a drum.
Regards,
If you are interested to checking the Mariners rumor mill, here is a link to their best blog
Cuddyer - zero trade value
Punto - zero trade value
Livan Hernandez - minor trade value
Booflet - no real trade value (we already have Drew Butera the worst thing to see the batters box since Scott Ulger).
Brian Bassackwards - wouldn’t make the Saints roster.
And Mike Lamb and Adam Everett are this year’s Ponson and Ortiz…
Yet all the negativity a side… this team is right there.
We are not getting Blalock who has been hurt almost all year, and hasn’t been a great player for two years. We are not going to trade Cuddyer… no one would take his 18-20 million left on his contract.
If we can get Beltre, and it doesn’t require giving up an arm and a leg… do it, but Buscher has not been terrible at 3rd base.
Once Cuddyer is back I would sent Gomez down for a couple of weeks to have him relax and remember he’s having fun.
Beltre did pretty good in pitcher friendly Dodger stadium. The M’s still received some juice benefit, as the juice influence has slowly worn off. It’s all downhill from here on out.
Dragon,
When has anyone said Liriano would pitch like he did in 2006? I don’t expect that at all. I wouldn’t have ever expected a repeat of that if he’d stayed healthy.
However, a 3.50 ERA with over a K per inning doesn’t seem unrealistic at all, and again, would be an improvement over our current rotation.
Is it guaranteed? No. But I don’t see any reason to not experiment with what could be an incredible improvement. Exactly how much more could it hurt us then letting Livo go out there again tomorrow against Texas?
Not that his 2.2IP, 9H, 7ER bonanza the last time he faced Texas wasn’t fun to watch…
Craig,
Maybe if you post in all caps people will stop ignoring you. Just a thought!
No kidding Dragon! Liriano OWNS Norfolk, Lehigh Valley and Indianapolis!
LOL!
BC,
I agree with most of your post, but I’d say that Boof has a lot of trade value. He’s been bad, sure, but he’s a very talented pitcher who’s still young and under team control for awhile. A team with a good pitching coach would love that. I think a team like San Diego, for example, would have a lot of interest in someone like Bonser.
As for Buscher, he’s been terrible at third, just not offensively. Defensively, I hate to say it, because I don’t dislike Buscher or anything, but he’s one of the worst third basemen I’ve ever seen at the Major League level.
No range, horrible arm, can’t even make a good throw to second on a DP, let alone a good throw to first… he’s a nightmare in the field.
Busher is awful, but he’s a better hitter than Beltre (not difficult). Buscher is a little less glove, but a lot more bat. Stick with Buscher, even though he is awful.
And as for Livan… he has 9 wins when no one else on this staff does. So I’m going to stick with the guy that has beaten WS winners Boston, and AZ… beaten Division leading Boston, and AZ mind you… as well as Chicago… I want to say he has beaten 4 division leaders at the time that he beat them, but it might only be 3.
On TV they predict Josh Hamilton will be MVP. Rangers are 8 games out. I suppose it could happen, but………..that’s a long way to carry your team.
Cuddyer and Punto have some trade value. Someone like the Dodgers might be willing to get Punto for a prospect and teams that need outfielders (Mets/Rays) might take a shot at Cuddyer.
Bass is pitching worse than Rincon this year (check the numbers) so DFA should be next for him.
Livan and Beef do have some trade value, esp. now that most of the starters on the block are gone…
MVP’s (though they’re not supposed to be) are usually the best guys on a playoff team.
But with the love affair with Hamilton’s story…he could likely break that trend.
How does AZ winning a title in 2001 count?
CRAIG:
We have a lot of awful players. Hopefully they keep playing like they have been. (?)
Steve.
I guess I haven’t looked at Buscher as the ANSWER, but I didn’t see him as that bad. I sometimes wonder if my dislike of Punto, and Lamb’s failure this year have me seeing Buscher as better than he really is?
I would like to see the Twins make a deal with SD… I’d like to see us make a blockbuster and get Kouzmanoff and Maddux.
Perkins or Slowey, Dunesing, Sosa, Winfree, Fernandez and Benson might be able to get that done?
i dont know why punto and cuddyer are even mentioned as possible trade bait..the twins would trade for me, before they would trade one of those two guys…..come on guys, youre smarter than that…..
With some more run support, anyone on the staff could have nine wins. I don’t buy the wins argument. Here’s Livan’s numbers against the AL Central:
49 IP, 69 H, 29 ER, 8 BB, 21 K, 7 HR, 5.32 ERA, 1.57 WHIP
I’ll take… well, I’ll basically take almost anyone over that guy.
Jase, that was supposed to be a corrected Division leading, not world series… I edited it, and then forgot to erase it.
BC:
fair enough.
damn it, another error. That is supposed to say a combination of 4 of those 6 players mentioned would be able to get that deal done.
I am thinking faster than I can type… must focus, lol.
Steve,
I’m not sure you have read this blog. There are numerous comments of HOW this is a World Series team with Liriano and a marginal playoff team without.
A 3.5 ERA could be great, yet Santana has a 3.1 ERA and the Mets are barely winning 55% of his starts. IF I have to choose, I will take wins every time.
Stats are great, and Livan is VERY GOOD at being horrible in losses, while being very good in wins. As I mentioned before, I invest in sports, with parlays. Where ALL choices have to win for me to win. As soon as one game loses I hope ALL the rest lose, as my prediction % is a bit over 50% and I want as many losses as possible clumped together.
Bottom line, Scott Baker’s two 0-1 losses count just the same as a couple of Livan blowouts, and quite frankly they hurt more because of all the woulda/coulda/shoulda’s. Obvious one lone opinion.
Regards,
ps: I just think it foolhardy to mess with a .750 run. It’s hard to improve on that, and damn easy to screw it up.
BC,
LA Angles opening Day. Another crap team
BC,
I’ve been advocating a Kouzmanoff acquisition for a long time.
I don’t know that Maddux is needed, nor that he’d be all that effective, to be honest. It’d be great to see a Hall of Famer in a Twins uniform, but he’s been pretty terrible away from PETCO.
I think the Twins can afford to give Denard Span and Boof Bonser in return for Kevin Kouzmanoff.
I know people are high on Span right now, but his numbers will come down, and he makes sense for a team playing in a spacious park (covers ground, lack of HR power doesn’t hurt them as much - lots of XBHs). Padres need a leadoff hitter and center fielder.
PETCO can also help keep Boof’s HRs down, and a new setting could help him. We might have to throw in another mid-level prospect, but I’d be ok with that.
Kubel can fill in for Span/Cuddyer in right, and the DH spot can consist of Buscher/Monroe/random players.
Maybe we could even get them on board to take on Lamb’s contract.
Either way, at one point, it was said that the Padres wanted to move Kouzmanoff to move Headley back to third base, but those talks have cooled down a bit, unfortunately.
I’d be ecstatic over either Kouzmanoff or Beltre, depending on who we trade of course. Both absolutely mash lefties. While Beltre’s more expensive, he’s also a MUCH better defender and can steal a base too, which I think appeals to the Twins more.
Mudcat, We do have some awful players, but they are winning me over. I like the team. I am becoming Buscher’s biggest fan, even though I can’t stand him.
I do like Buscher’s solid line drive hitting. He will hit the ball into the gap, and occasionally over the fence, the more he plays. He rarely strikes out. He’s a guy with some power, but he makes excellent contact. He will take a walk. I see the OBP being up there, the more he plays.
His range is okay at 3B. Not great, but not awful. His hands will soften up as he relaxes and gains experience. George Brett had an erratic arm, but he did okay.
Yeah even though I hate Buscher, I really love the guy. He’s now my fav. Go Buscher!! Go Twins!!
span will not be traded in any way, fashion or form…for all we know cuddyer is out for the year, as this finger thing is just not going to heal the way it looks, so you might as well drop span from all trade thoughts also, along with punto and cuddyer….if the twins make moves its going to be with prospects and maybe liriano…. i dont see them trading anyone on this roster unless its lamb, everett, monroe and really, whos going to want these guys-they wont disrupt the starting lineup of this team …..
Steve,
Run support is what it is.
I submit it is a subtle unconscious phychological thing where players know when a Santana, or Baker pitches they will not need to score as many runs, and thus don’t.
Slowey has also gotten good run support, particularly last year. While he has been generally better lately, I think since he can come a bit unglued, players unconsciously plan for it.
Regards,
Baker’s 0-1 losses count the same in the record-column, I agree.
The nice thing about baseball is that you can look beyond that and analyze more deeply to give yourself a better chance next time out.
I know you have an all-or-nothing mentality when it comes to wins and losses, but I don’t think that mentality applies in baseball. If it did, I think GMs would approach the game very differently.
Winning 19-18 counts all the same as winning 6-0, but I don’t think anyone would be particularly happy to see the Twins string together a stretch of three straight 19-18 wins. Eventually, our offense isn’t going to be able to sustain that kind of pounding from the pitching.
Livan’s wins have been impressive, but the thing with him is there’s no rhyme or reason to when he wins and loses. I don’t want a complete question mark coming to the ballpark every day. I’ll take someone who can consistently put up a 4.00 ERA and give the team a chance every time he goes out there against someone who goes out there and is spectacular one day, but then buries the team early like Livan has done.
Baseball is a game of ups and downs, but every team’s goal is consistency. There’s been nothing consistent about Livan at all.
Liriano may or may not take this team to the World Series. Maybe he’s lights out. Maybe he gets roughed up. Maybe he’s just average or slightly above average. Whichever is the end result, I think he gives the team a much better opportunity to win.
When you’re looking at the future, the opportunity to win is extremely important. When looking at the past, I agree, the W or L is what stands out. We’re not looking at the past though. We’re looking to the future, and we need every opportunity we can get.
My posts are too long. Haha
MJ,
Span IS a prospect. He’s had two good weeks at the Major League level.
I’ve read nothing about Span being off limits, and if the right offer comes along, I don’t see why not to do it.
Span’s place in the organization has disappeared. Young, Cuddyer, and Gomez are the outfield, like it or not. Gomez’s struggles are frustrating, but Smith traded Santana for him, and Gardenhire likes him. The fans love him.
Span won’t be a designated hitter, and he’s not a fourth outfielder. Kubel can play right, and Monroe can be the primary DH with Kubel in right field. It’s an ugly fix, but it’s a short-term fix as well, and I think adding a player like Beltre or Kouzmanoff in a Span trade would more than off-set Monroe’s average. He could share time with Buscher as well.
Gardenhire loves Span, but you have to give something to get something, and in order to get help for the short-term, you need to give up something that will help another team long-term. Span’s not going to have a place in the future anyway, IMO.
i want beltre more than anyone steve, but he wont come by span by any stretch of imagination and yes he will be a 4th outfielder if needed, but right now and for a long time yet he is the right fielder for this team- the twins have many other prospects besides span ….giving up span is laughable…..come on
I still don’t get all the manlove for Kouzmanoff… He is an average offensive player (think Cuddyer) and a below average defensive player (think Ruiz)…
Remember, 2 years ago he was traded with Andrew Brown for Josh Barfield. That’s about his value…
Souhan and Blyleven settled the Liriano debate.
I’ve heard some knowledgeable baseball people say Double A can be tougher than Triple A a LOT of the time. I suppose because of roster shuffling and call ups.
Double A is tougher than AAA, simply because 80% of the players in AAA are either washed up major leaguers or people with no hope of making it in the bigs (that’s unfortunate these days). AA is more where the pure prospects are…
Why not see what you can get for SPan. It is possible that this may be the highest his trade value is ever going to get.
Souhan is a bozo is there a better example than his column today. The man is absolutely, 100%, certifiably, a bonehead.
Back to the new camera view. Dang.
thrylos… I agree
Wow, Ranger’s Centerfielder is kind of overweight.
Looks like Perk’s fastball is at Livan levels tonight… it tops at 89 mpg
Mudcat, remember a certain overweight and underheight Twins’ CF?
good job Delmon
Dragon,
I stepped out for a bit but saw your post.Where did I say I thought Liriano was going to win the Cy? I’m simply saying he has done exactly as the Twins wanted him to do,go down and “dominate”.I think one earned run in the last 28 innings is dominating at any level.Anyone who has watched Livan pitch the last month or so has to admit he isn’t fooling anyone.Will Liriano pitch better than Livan,Time will eventually tell.
The whole point is the Twins are in a position to take a run at a division title and IMO need to look at ways to improve.And IMO Liriano over the course of the next two and a half months will give them a better chance.If I’m wrong it won’t be the first or last time.
Regards,
I should add that I now don’t expect Liriano th be called up anytime soon.Souhan,in the TV pre-game nailed it.Liriano’s agent really messed this up.The Twins will not,nor should they,let him make their decisions for them.But I would also be willing to bet that Liriano had very little if anything to do with his agents actions.
I guess now that Souhan said it, it should be written in stone…
thrylos,
Whats your point in jabbing Souhan.
That was a nasty pitch Justin doubled on
Pro for Dover,
Souhan’s credibility (as far as I am concerned) is about as high as Sid’s. Go back and read some of his articles the last 6 months if you want 
Craig:
Your favorite Twin just came through.
Nicely done, Buscher.
Can’t see the game, can anyone who’s watching tell me about Kubel’s last at bat. Did he hit it well or not? The reason I ask is that for some reason (other than his mediocre BA), I just don’t have a lot of faith in him. I know he has 13 HR and over 40 RBI, but it seems to me he doesn’t come through in the clutch as much as he should. Maybe one of the stat geeks can confirm, what’s his RISP? Maybe it’s time to throw DY into the fire and bat him behind MVP, see how he responds.
Thrylos,
Sorry but although you don’t have to agree with him,and I often don’t, he’s a lot closer to the inside story than any of us.Most here take their own opinions to seriously (myself included).Alot of what we all argue about has no “correct answer”.I this case Souhan was simply stating that he felt Lirianos agent was doing his client more harm than good.I happen to agree with him.
whiteness,
Kubes had a solid at bat. He even laid off pitches he would usually swing at…
Thanks, must be a mirage…(snowblindness).
This has nothing to do with the game tonight but if I were the owner/GM of the Twins I would write a check to Rod Carew for whatever he wanted for the feeding, housing and caring of Gomes and Young.
Both those guys could benefit from a steady diet of Carew from October (assuming we aren’t in the playoffs) until the end of January. They can go to the beach another year.
If anyone can teach “approach” it’s Rod (if Punto were smart he’d be back there with them…he had his best year after visiting Sir Rodney in Cali)
Sometimes there are better dollars spent than on “salary” Gomez living with Carew for 4-5 months might make him an All-Star.
And while were at it…Cuddy and Kubes could do the same thing spending time with Harmon.
If you are keeping score,
Graves had 6 ERs in one inning in Rochester, then Humber added another in 2 innings of work and Lahey closed it with 3 in his single inning of work, and the Red Wings lost 11-5 to Norfolk, despite Ruiz’ team leading 14 HR. Macri was 4-3 playing SS (Plouffe started at 2B and Santos at 3B) raising his AAA to .270.
Perkins needs to stop over-throwing in this sixth inning
THRYLOS:
Must have missed your 7:31 ’till now. But you’re right. Bombo Rivera was a LITTLE portly but he had that .392 batting average, according to Wikipedia.
Yeah, right.
This strike zone is a little tight, but I don’t have a big problem with it as long as its consistent.
Did it look like Milton Kamen glared at Perk on the way to first? Because of an inside pitch, maybe? Anderson came out for some reason.
Yeah! Perkins flips the Byrd!
I think that Andy came out to say to pitch around Bradley…
on another thought, does Perkins remind any of you (oldies around here) or Alan Anderson?
Hamilton almost broke his nose on that one
98 pitches for perkins
Thrylos,
You mean the same Alan Anderson who chose to sit out a meaningless late season Start so he could win an ERA title? No,Perkins has more guts than that Alan Anderson!
Actually Perkins,at least his delivery,reminds me of Jerry Koosman.
Butcher sucks…
Big pick me up by Harris.
I was ready to say “Well, that sure stunk” but Harris made that look routine!
Call Fl and see if we can reverse that trade!
Just think if we had traded Matt Garza for Hamilton
Was that ever even an option?
That Breslow looks OK to me. Does Cleveland just unload all their good pitchers? That’s OK too.
Wait…
See Gardy get Bass in for the 8th…
Yeah,The Tribe waives Breslow and picks up Juanie from our scrap heap.Gotta love that.
I heard the Rangers traded a very good pitcher named Edinson Volquez and a minor league pitcher just to get Hamilton.
Another question from the “visually impaired”. Someone tell me about Breslow. I haven’t been able to see him pitch yet. How does he do it (fire, smoke or FM)? Is he just destined as a 1-2 out/1 inning guy? Seems like he ought to get more innings w/ that ERA.
Teagardenhire never would have thrown him out anyway, I think.
One can only imagine the blogs last January if the Twins had traded Garza for a recovering drug addict. 20/20 hindsight is nice.
Daniel,
would they have been worse than trading for a bat throwing malcontent?
AKDanimal,
Breslow is a finesse pitcher. His fastball maybe reaches 90, but he is mixing a good changeup and throwing the ball all over the plate
Hit it out Kubel!
Shawn,
I thought that what’s his name (Offerman) already played for the Twins
Hamilton could fall off the wagon tomorrow and Young could go on to play 10 good years for the Twins. Quit trying to play hind-sight and judge long-term trades 3 months in.
The guy they traded for Hamilton is 12-3 with a 2.92 ERA and was an All-Star. I suppose we could have traded Santana for him, but I doubt Garza would have gotten him.
Kubes,
take, take, take, take
Shawn, I really respect your posts normally but you aren’t comparing the two acts as equal, are you?
Mudcat, Vazquez has been great, but I’d bet that Garza was a more highly regarded prospect at the time.
I officially pull my previous post, Kubel da’ man……
Young is 4 for 4.
Hamilton would be as divisive in the clubhouse as Gaetti and Gagne were. No need for that
I thought about that Howeda. There would have been an even bigger uproar if we traded Santana and got a crack, er, I mean, a guy who just cracks homers.
That was an awesome pitch
Yeah, AKDanimal, I was thinking the same thing about Kubes…
And Delmon looking clutch, as well.
Keep it up guys! We need 22 more scores, they have Hamilton.
Its probably a good thing the twins trade for delmon anyways because we need good right handed batters.
On a separate note, the LA Dodgers scored 3 in the top of the first followed by a four spot by AZ in the bottom half. Welcome to PCL AAA + baseball, otherwise known as the NL West.
If KC wouldn’t have given up 6 in the first INNING they would be leading the White Sox. (it’s 9-4 in the 7th.)
Crain got himself out of a 3-0 count with three great pitches
The White Sox jumped on the KC starter’s first and second pitches. I think he only threw 18 pitches and gave up 6 runs!
Crain is a pain to the Range–ers.
Lexi too.
Nice play by Loose Cannon #2
That should end Kinsler’s hit streak at 25. Well done, boys!
I gotta say, I am impressed with Casilla. I think his BS was clutch and got things going. If Gomez keeps struggling, and Span cools off (like he seems to be), what about his moving to lead off, and (gasp) moving Mauer and Morneau up one, IF (big if) they can add a power RH bat?
To Finish….with that bat going to cleanup?
Let’s see if Bonser can preserve this 3-hit shutout
Morneau is our number 4 hitter, no one else. If you want to move mauer up, fine but Morneau does not move.
Boof vs. Hamilton…does anyone else think that the folks in the RF upper deck are antsy? Come on, Bonser!
Get Bonser out of there.
OK. Maybe a little while longer.
Oh, too bad. Milton Bradley took a RISK and got some AGGRAVATION, SORRY!
First time the rangers have been shutout this year. Great game by the Twins.
how ’bout Boofie in the 9th?
Boof faced the easy part of the batting order.
Morneau is our number 4 hitter, no one else. If you want to move mauer up, fine but Morneau does not move.
That’s right, because it automatically makes him a worse hitter if you do.
good job Boofer
Now that’s the Boof I’d like to see in the 8th inning of a close game.
Anderson: “Boof, you want out of purgatory?”
Boof: “You bet coach”
Anderson: “Strike out Hamilton, Bradley, and pack you’re raincoat for Seattle.”
lexi looked like a midget next to morneausie
We found our Right Handed Power Pitcher out of the Pen! ! !
The only hitter I would move Morne to 3rd for is A-rod or Pujols
gatty790,
How ’bout Ramirez? he is available
Okay, okay. So you want MVP at cleanup, but then Mauer stays at #3 forever ’cause I don’t think you breakup M&M either. Give me another #2 if Casilla goes to lead off.
morneausie?
Mornsie?
More Nosey?
it sounded alright, I guess.
let’s shake up the batting order next month.
Mudcat-
I’m all for that “don’t mess with it” thing, but Go-go is in a free fall now. If it continues, at some point Gardy’s going to have to do something. A lead off hitter just should not be .250 or less with 2 K’s per game. Forget the headcase crap, you can’t baby him forever. And, I know he may only leadoff once a game, but he’s in front of three .300 plus hitters and needs to be on base.
AKDanimal,
“Forget the headcase crap, you can’t baby him forever.”
I agree.
Gomez’s head is already a mess because the pitchers are kicking his “other end”.
Bat him 9th and his failures won’t be as team-damaging as they are now.
That will relieve some of the pressure and frustration that has messed up his head already.
If that doesn’t bring Gomez around, then replace him in the lineup with a recovered Cuddyer and replace him in CF with Span. (if Span is producing at that time)
Sane-
I agree. Now, do you move Casilla to #1, and if so who’s your #2? I offer my previous thoughts (predicated on adding a power RH bat- which I think is a must).
Casilla
Mauer
Morneau
BIG BOPPER
and so on.
Since the Twins keep winning, it will be interesting to see how Gomez does tomorrow evening against, I believe, a rookie left hander from TX. If he falters again and the Twins don’t prevail with Hernandez pitching, then perhaps the management will consider some moves. Just an observation..
Option #2 (if Smith locks up).
1) Casilla
2) a scrappy, smart, improving, may-do-whats-necessary-to-get-on (Harris)
3) Mauer
4) Morneau
etc.
Or does this mess with the lineup too much for some people. God forbid a bottom feeder might graduate….
AKDanimal,
I would just flip-flop Span and Gomez in the batting order so the other seven players stay where they are. Casilla is doing so well in the 2-hole, he should not be moved.
Harris struggled in the number two hole.
What about Young? Move him to the number two hole and have Casilla bat leadoff. Youngs hitting very well and might benefit from hitting in front of Mauer. Just a thought.
OK, offbase thought. Casilla goes to lead-off, and Young bats 2nd. He sure hits the ball to the right side alot and could advance the runner. Gomez, somewhere deep in the order.
Okay, I’ll acquiesce to the not messing too much with the young kids heads thing. I opened my mouth earlier about Kubel and he made me eat it. I would like someone behind Morneau to put enough fear in opposing pitchers that MVP gets better pitches/ less IWalks. Can you imagine? It sounds like that pitch he doubled on tonight was a pretty tough one. If Kubes is the one, great. (read-need more proof)
hmmm
for those who don’t remember and are talking about Gomez being detrimental to the team (how?), I’d just want to remind you of who the lead off hitter was in 1991 and what his stats were…
My objections to Young in the 2-hole are:
1) He has a low OBP.
2) Delmon will hit into many DP’s because he is NOT fast. (he steals bases on baseball savvy, not on speed)
3) Delmon doesn’t take enough pitches to allow the leadoff batter a chance to steal.
4) Not a good bunter.
5) He is needed to drive in runs. (93 RBI last year as a 21-yr-old rookie) The 2-hole is not a good RBI spot.
Mr. thrylos, Does he do color on the radio?
Daniel,
nope, he was 22 then, too…
“Does he do color on the radio?”
Yes, and he bitches about Gomez and Young incessantly.
On another note, those dreaded Red Sox, who are eight games under .500 on the road, are losing 8-3 to the Angels in Anaheim. Cy Young Bucholz started for the Bosox. Mr. Dragon, I hope you are well. I enjoyed your heated exchanges earlier today. Mr sane, again thanks for the insight.
Thrylos-
Yeah, his BA was .246 that year. It was a magic year. But, who else did we have to hit there. If Gomez keeps heading toward the Mendoza line, do you think we have someone who might be better served at #1?
It WASN’T Gladden?
Gardy says that Gomez would lose confidence if he moved him to the 9 hole.He couldn’t have any less confidence than he has right now.In fact moving him to the 9 hole would take the pressure off of him!
Buscher has gotten some key hits for us this year. Pitching with a lead takes some of the pressure off of Perkins. A good game by the Twins.
Sane/Thrylos-
It had to be Gladden, sad that I can’t remember, but the only other one it could have been was Mack, but I don’t remember him hitting lead off….
I thought it was
Gladden
Knoblauch
Kirby
Herbie
I also forgot we had a switch-hitting DH that year who hit 29 dingers…(lightning in a bottle!)
Gladden was in 1987…
Knobbie was in 1991
But, oops… I stand corrected and Gladden and his .247 average was leading off in 1991 with Knobbie batting second
thrylos98,
“Daniel,
nope, he was 22 then, too…”
I must have misunderstood you.
Were you saying Gladden was 22 in 1991?
He was 34 yrs-old.
Okay, I’ll buy that, but he hit .281 that year (as a rook I might add). I’d take that from Gomez, or Span for that matter.
By the way, thanks for making me take a walk down memory lane….here’s a couple of facts I found by doing so. We had a guy in ‘91 who let the league for hitting into double plays (27). His first name started with a K and ended in a Y.
Also, Baseball-Reference.com lists Killebrew’s weight as 213 lbs.? LOL
Late Post
Knoblauch 1991 .281 BA
You know what I find amazing, some of the same people that point at Liriano’s dominating performance in the minors also point at Livan’s performances against less than stellar offenses as being something less than a win.
Seems that Livan can only pitch in the games that he is scheduled to pitch in. If he does well in them, isn’t that what is expected anyway? Isn’t a good record basically winning the games your supposed to, and winning some of the ones you aren’t????
How is that any different than any other pitcher on the Twins staff?
Everybody points at Liriano’s dominating performance as being the proof that he is ready, but what is it proof of other than that he can beat the cellar dwellers of the minors?
The guys that are pointing out that some of Livans wins are against anemic offenses seem to forget that Liriano’s are too.
Livan is a postive influence on this club, and for that, I feel he deserves a position. If you think that Frankie deserves it simply because he can beat a AAA team, well, you simply don’t understand that there is a difference in players up in the Majors compared to the minors.
Sure, Liriano should be up here, but to say that his record would be better than Livan’s is ludicrous.
Livan is leading the Twins in wins in games pitched. Nothing wrong with that. Liriano already has half as many team losses for the Twins as Livan has, in just a couple starts
OK, gotcha.
Knoblauch was 22, but Gladden was the leadoff man.
That threw me completely off the horse, but I am back in the saddle again.
Believe me when I say this, Mr thrylos, relying on one’s memory will not get better as the years go by. Ironically, Gladden seems to remember how great he was forgetting how much a certain #34 in CF made him better. And, as each year passes, Gladden gets better and better, at least in his own mind. Just another reminiscence by an old fan..
Fire-When you finally fire Vavra will you at least have some heart and let him be the batting practice pitching!
oppss–pitcher
sane
Young’s OBP is .340 and climbing. He does make a lot of contact and double plays are a possibility, but instead of straight steals, do more hit and runs. If you want him to drive in runs, how does this lineup look?
Casilla
Mauer
Young
Morneau
Cuddy (when healthy)
Kubel
Harris
Buscher
Gomez
I really like it a lot.
Again I’m not advocating it. When you’re winning and scoring runs its foolish to mess with things.
But to me an interesting idea.
Gladden was ok…
but
methinks that Young is better
That team compared to this team, was better in CF, DH and starting pitching. Other than than, this team is better. (btw, with all that uproar about the 8th inning pitcher this year, go check Bedrock’s numbers back in ‘91…)
“Fire-When you finally fire Vavra..”
If you couldn’t fire Vavra when the Twins hitters were struggling, you sure as hell can’t fire him now!
Morneau, Mauer and the Seven Dwarfs have the fourth highest BA in the Big Leagues at .279, only one point behind the 3rd place Cubbies.
Mr. Me Too 11:25 pm, I agree completely (and I believe that those were many of the same points that Mr. Dragon stated earlier today). That said, I will still find myself holding my breath on every pitch by Livan manana. Let us hope that he is ON!
JP-
I like it too, especially the S,L,R,L,R,L but I have some sort of weird aversion to splitting up the M&M boys….
and I would be okay w/swapping Cuddy and DY, depending on who (if either) starts hitting homers.
How many people would buy season tickets the next day if punto was traded?
i would be one for sure
love the grit in that hammie and finger
How many people would buy season tickets the next day if punto was traded?
i would be one for sure
love the grit in that hammie and finger
JP,
Your lineup looks good for when Cuddyer returns healthy.
Before that I would go with:
Span
Casilla
Mauer
Morneau
Young
Kubel
Buscher
Harris
Gomez
One thing different about the teams in ‘87 and ‘91, they hit home runs at a far greater clip and were outstanding defensive clubs. Their pitching was competitively good, not great. There were no $150-200 MM teams back then to skew the chances of each team. The ‘91 team went out and acquired Chili Davis and it was truly a big event and deal breaker. Now,sad to say, it would hardly register on the Richter scale.
“How many people would buy season tickets the next day if punto was traded?”
My guess - NONE!
Daniel-
True. Even the lesser knowns (Mack hit 18 that year), although I am happy with the ‘08 squad so far. I, like you, miss the good old days. Killebrew had Tony-O and Rod hitting in front of him and Bob A, protecting him in #5! How didn’t that group not win a WS. Damn you Kolfax and Drysdale!
Gomez has always annoyed me - I’m sure Gardy knows his players and how to read their emotions, but he’s never seemed to lack confidence. Dropping him to the 9 hole, or even AAA, could maybe put his head on straight.
No way Delmon moves to the 2 hole - doesn’t take enough pitches and swings and misses about as much as Gomez. He’s starting to put good wood on the ball and knocking in runs.
Casilla is a solid 2-hitter, sort of like Omar Vizquel in the late 90s Indians teams. We just need a Kenny Lofton to get things started. I see Span as that kind of ballplayer.
NAME RUNS RBI RUNS+RBI
BARTLETT 24 20 44
Harris+Young 87 70 157
———————————–
Young 47 37 84
Harris 40 33 73
NAME W-L ERA
Baker 6-2 3.47
Blackburn 7-5 3.65
Perkins 7-2 3.84
GARZA 7-5 3.96
Slowey 6-6 4.26
And another thing…Someone also suggested trading Cuddyer and Redmond - these guys are clubhouse leaders. They’re not going anywhere. Redmond will be a bench coach before he leaves Minnesota.
Livan has experience and is passing that on to the other pitchers. Learning to pitch without your best stuff is what being effective is all about, and that is how he’s survived in the MLs for such a long time. He’s also won a World Series, so he’s game-tested and won’t lose his cool. That said, I wouldn’t mind seeing Liriano come up, but there are no guarantees he’d be much better.
Mr AKD, It’s hard to beat HOFamers (+Podres) and that’65 series went 7 games as I recall. Sometime, you just have to rely on good fortune, like playing 4 of 7 in the dome (’87 & ‘91). What I like about the ‘08 rendition of the Twins is that we are adding some bigger players who will continue to fill out. Size can be intimidating (ask the ‘87 might-mite Cardinals).
Mr. sane, Good stuff! Particularly from a guy who doesn’t just rely on stats to make a point. Much appreciated.
Maybe the Twins could toy with a 6 man rotation and a 5 man bullpen, with the starters being available for one or two innings on the third day between starts, sort of like their bullpen session. Something like this:
Livan, Liriano, Baker, Perkins, Blackburn & Slowey as the starters, and Crain, Guerrier, Breslow, Reyes, and Nathan. Just imagine needing to get AJ & Thome out in the 8th inning and its Liriano’s day to pitch an inning out of the ‘pen between starts!
Oh now Delmon Young is our savior. I thought everybody wanted him traded for Jason Tyner about 2 weeks ago… BRUTAL. And Denard Span our savior at RF. We need to trade Cuddy cause Denard Span is sooo good! You have to keep him around really. His 0-11 slump with 5 Ks is just a fluke despite his previous 4 crappy years in the Minors. His 61 major league at bats before the 0-11 slump show he is the best around. But numbers don’t matter you guys have seen him play you know he is good. You have an “eye” for talent.
The Twins are solid they don’t need to do anything EXCEPT get rid of Bass and ya might want to move Gomez to 9th in the order. I mean really he sucks bad. He might be the worst starter in the majors but hey he brings excitment. I think Gardy is a great coach but I also think Gardy should try blackjack out. Letting Gomez get the most ABs on the team is like hitting on 20 when the dealer has a 6. But Gardy keeps getting that ACE and the Twins keep winning.
If you want to bring up Liriano after you drop Bass sounds good. If you want him to pay for his agent running his mouth that do it. Liriano hasn’t proved nothing except that he can shutdown hitters that are on par with Randy Ruiz and Jason Pridie. Wow that is impressive. AAA ball is just a compost heap where MLB teams keep reserve players around to replace guys that get injured.
Dick Bremer probably could pitch 6 effective innings in AAA ball.
And yes Beltre is an upgrade over anybody the Twins have at 3B. This is fact. But do they need him? Maybe if you want to win the World Series but its’ going to take REAL prospects to get him. Not Mike Lamb and Randy Ruiz for Beltre. OR Hernandez and Cuddy. PROSPECTS! I think the Twins will make the best call on it. I’d like to know where Charlie Walters came up with Hernandez and Cuddy in a package deal with some team. Who would want that deal Kevin McHale? I think the only team that would take Cuddy and Hernandez from us is San Fran. They would give us Barry Zito in return. I mean this guy writes for a huge paper and he is going to throw that garbage out?
Whatever talk about brutal.
From La Velle’s July 19 Strib article:
• “The Twins recognized Joe Mauer, Justin Morneau and Joe Nathan for their participation in Tuesday’s All-Star Game. Morneau received a loud ovation when his Home Run Derby highlights were played.”
People do the most stupid things.
“His 0-11 slump with 5 Ks is just a fluke”
ELEVEN at-bats?
You have to be kidding!
What hitter has never gone 0-11?
What GREAT HALL OF FAME hitter, living or dead, has never gone 0-11?
Hitters go 0-11 in the middle of hot streaks where they hit the ball hard all ELEVEN at-bats.
That pretty much takes the “small sample size” extrapolation to the ragged edge.
Get a grip!
I have been wondering why Gardy hasn’t tried Young in the 5 slot lately. The guy has been swinging a hot bat for awhile now, and is knocking on the door of .300 If they want protection for Morney, sure, a power hitter probably is better protection, but a player that hits for a high average is probably just as good. High OPS isn’t necessarily as valuable as simply getting the hit to move the runners. A walk will obviously get him on base, but the runner (Morneau) only moves up the one base. A hit could move him to the other corner, or a double scores him. One thing that I have seen from Young is his gap power. He absolutely stings the ball. He’s a line drive hitter, and that is a VERY good thing to be when you are trying to advance the runners, since the ball isn’t lofted high enough to give a defender time to react to it as well, and often can’t cut it off on the way to the gap.
Sure, he is prone to chasing bad pitches, but as evidenced by him lately, bad pitches don’t have to get you out if you put good contact onto them.
Kmack, I have wondered the same thing many times. Why can’t they use a pitcher for an inning of relief work as his normal “bullpen” session midweek? The “bullpen” session is meant to keep him sharp and to keep the stamina there.
The actual relief role, at least in my mind, would be much better for keeping them sharp than throwing the ball towards a catchers mitt in the pen. Heck, the pitcher has to warm up to do the session, so it’s not like it is anything unusual anyway.
How many times have we heard it mentioned during an extra-innings broadcast that _____ can probably come in and pitch an inning or so since he has a bullpen session scheduled anyway.
Why isn’t Delmon our leadoff guy? Obviously he gets it. Heck, name who else on the team goes 4 for 4 on the first Friday after the AllStar break? NOBODY. If Gardy doesn’t see that perfect senario, using him as our ULTRA high OPS leadoff person, he is an absolute idiot.
/note, this is sample size lunicy at it’s best/
OBP SLG AVG
.284 .346 .250 - Gomez
.409 .400 .307 - Span
Span doesn’t get a hit for a few games, and people are ready to trash him. Gomez hasn’t hit for two seasons.
A .284 OBP and 97 SO in 384 AB is not a quality lead-off hitter. Gomez needs some time in Rochester. He’s flailing at pitches way out of the strike zone that he can’t possibly hit. Gomez has gone from bad to worse. The kid is a mess.
Carlos Gomez:
OBP SLG AVG
.288 .304 .232 - 2007
.284 .346 .250 - 2008
.285 .336 .246 - Career
Sorry to rain on your parade Craig, but Gomez isn’t going anywhere this year, except hopefully to the 9 slot.
There is no way that the pull that guy from this lineup for an extended period, although it would probably be highly beneficial for both him, and by extension, the Twins.
The guy doesn’t need a change of scenery nearly as much as a change in pressure demands. As a leadoff hitter, he is failing right now, but as a number nine hitter, well, he is more than capable of that right now, even considering how poorly he is hitting right now.
Span needs to get pushed higher, much higher in the order, and Gomez needs to slide lower, much lower.
In fact, the simplest, most easily accomplished change would be to simply swap places.
Can’t wait for Cuddy to come back so we can see the comments on the Clumsy guy out there running the bases again. Dang, I would like to have that clumsy magician out there right now, and I am CERTAIN that Justin would like him back too.
Gomez has had 3 hits, all singles, in his last 44 AB.
OBP SLG AVG
.266 .309 .236 - June - 123 AB
.200 .173 .154 - July - 52 AB
That’s 175 AB. Not good. Gardy is stubborn, but that is not a lead-off hitter.
Batting Gomez 9th can’t hurt. I don’t know if it would help him any. It’s worth a try, if they are going to keep him in the major leagues.
I think it is more likely that at this point in his career, he is just a really bad major league hitter. He could eventually turn it around at AAA. Others have.
Now all Gomez offers is an occasional speed thrill for fans. That’s no reason to keep a guy in the majors, when he is obviously over-matched.
Ahem, Craig, you still have to remember that Span’s sample size is still incredibly small to be making these types of comparisons. Heck, Gomez doesn’t really have a body of work to point too (one year worth of at bats does not a career make) and Span definitely doesn’t. Considering that Span has only 75 AB’s so far this year, and 0-fer is probably going to drop his average about 20 points, at that point, your comparison looks pretty petty.
Now, soon, I am sure Gomez is going to pull a good game out of his hat again, and you will see those numbers spike again, similar to how Spans numbers spiked after his big game last week. That is what happens with all players, not just young ones like Gomez and Span.
Heck, Young put up a great night last night, and it spiked his average up to the point that people are starting to see .300 as being realistic (I think he will be there at the end of the year). Anyway, these splits are all fine and dandy, but hey, understand they are splits and not the complete picture.
not sure if anyone else saw this yet, and if you have forgive me, but usatoday.com has a list of 5 players that can carry the load to help their teams win in the 2nd half.
David Ortiz - no brainer
CC Sabathia - solid choice
Upton (diamondbacks) - a bit of a stretch
and number 4 Kevin Slowey of the Minnesota Twins.
They seem to like him a lot.
Me Too,
Gomez has created OBP data over the course of two seasons and a significant number of AB. He is sub .290, for OBP over two seasons. That isn’t much of a major league hitter.
The last two months he has been absolutely dominated by major league pitchers. They have his number. He has to adjust. I haven’t seen any indication of him making adjustments.
Span has carried a .400 + OBP from AAA to the majors. Though he hasn’t had many major league AB, that is an indication of a consistent approach at the plate. You can see by watching him work deep counts. He makes the pitcher throw the ball over the plate. He can foul off a borderline pitch. He is a much improved player.
I’m not saying Gomez isn’t a good player. He is a good player, but right now he is just a horrible hitter. He needs to work on his hitting approach. He has just barely survived with the bunt and beating out ground balls. That’s a very limited set of hitting skills.
A pivotal event in last night’s game was Mauer throwing out the attempted steal (Bradley?) with a spot-on rope about 8 inches above the ground. Precisely perfect. Nothing else would have gotten the runner.
That helped shutting down the TX offense as much as anything.
I hope his AS appearance has infused Mauer with more of the reality of how good he really is. Looking forward to him playing with even more energy and confidence the rest of the year.
Just to be clear, I am a Span supporter. I just don’t think that it is in the least bit fair to compare 75 major league AB’s to basically a year worth for Gomez. To do so, well, you are making some assumptions. Main one being that what he has done up till now is going to be the norm. All players play thru slumps. To point at a limited sample as a basic comparison, well, it just plain unfair. Wait until Span has a slump (0 for 11 is only a mini slump, nothing more) and then you can use those numbers. To compare AAA numbers to someone else’s Major league numbers are simply comparing apples to oranges. That is what I find so laughable about some of the comments about Liriano lately.
One thing I must agree with you on though is that Span is definitely working the count. That is the sign of a good hitting approach, and that helps limit the opportunity for extended slumps. So many players get so frustrated when they go thru a slump, they end up exacerbating it by swinging at junk, just trying to make something happen. I am pretty sure that is where Gomez is at right now.
