Twins-Yanks: Punto’s fine, just not in the lineup. Duensing named to Olympic team.
Posted on July 21st, 2008 – 2:39 PMBy La Velle
Just peeked at the Twins lineup. No Nick Punto. The clubhouse hasn’t opened yet, so I don’t know if his left ring finger is still sore, or he’s out because of matchups or what.
It’s hot here. The temperature is 91 but it feels worse than that. I’ve been sweating ever since I landed here yesterday. The highlight of yesterday’s walk around the Upper East Side was a dog that tried to lick me as I walked by. It’s owner yelled and tugged on the leash as I jumped away. Then I realized what the owner said to the dog.
“Did you just call your dog Jeter?” I asked.
“Yes, her name is Jeter,” the woman replied.
Her name is Jeter. Okaaaaay…..
Here’s the Twins lineup. Haven’t seen the Yanks. I know A-Rod’s here because we walked in the stadium at the same time. What is he putting in his hair these days?
4:05 Update: Punto is fine but he hasn’t swung a bat or gone through a normal pre-game yet, so the Twins want to see him do that first. I’m guessing he’s available as a late-inning defensive replacement.
Michael Cuddyer’s CT Scan will be read tomorrow by Twins hand specialist Dr. Tom Varecka. Varecka is in surgery all day today and get read the results.
Adam Everett has played in four minor league games since taking his rehab to Fort Myers, Fla., but Twins manager Ron Gardenhire revealed that Everett has had another cortisone shot in his troublesome shoulder.
Matt Tolbert, also in Fort Myers as he rehabs after thumb surgery, has experienced some swelling in his hand. It looks like he won’t be back until mid-August.
Finally, Class AAA Rochester lefthander Brian Duensing has been named to the U.S. Olympic baseball team. He’ll join the team on Monday for a few exhibition games in Durham, NC before flying to China.
Duesing is no stranger to Team USA, having pitched for the squad last November in the IBAF World Cup in Taiwan.
Twins (55-43): 1. Carlos Gomez, CF. 2. Alexi Casilla, 2B. 3. Joe Mauer, C. 4. Justin Morneau, 1B. 5. Jason Kubel, DH. 6. Delmon Young, LF. 7. Brian Buscher, 3B. 8. Brendan Harris, SS. 9. Denard Span, RF. Pitching: Nick Blackburn.
Yankees (53-45): 1. Johnny Damon, DH. 2. The Captain, SS. 3. Bob Abreu, RF. 4. A-Rod, 3B. 5. The Moustache, 1B. 6. Robinson Cano, 2B. 7. The Melkman, CF. 8. Jose Molina, C. 9. Brett Gardner, LF. Pitching: Sir Sid.
418 Responses to "Twins-Yanks: Punto’s fine, just not in the lineup. Duensing named to Olympic team."
If the dog’s name was Boof, I’d be more impressed with your story.
Prediction: Gomez gets two hits today and stays at the top of the lineup for a few more weeks.
“What is he putting in his hair these days?”
If Madonna is involved, something tells me you don’t wanna know.
ok, guys, you can pile on after this:
my dogs are named Viking and Gomez
Prediction: Gomez is an 0-fer and stays in the top of the lineup for another month.
LaVelle,
On a different note, do you see the Twins making a trade of any sort before the deadline and if so, do you see it more likely being for a reliever or an infielder, and who are some possible candidates in your mind in each category?
Gardy still doesn’t get it (even after Souhan’s column, which was extremely late to the party):
Bat Span leadoff, bat Go-go ninth.
I hate to say it folks (because Gardy does have a history of being right), but this is the same brand of stubborness that keeps a freakishly good talent like Liriano in the minors.
figured gomez would still be at leadoff. It takes Gardy some time between first saying he’s thinking of something, and then doing something about it. I give it about a week, maybe less.
Rob Neyer’s blog suggests the Twins send Gomez down.
I just wonder who is better than Gomez in the minors?
Pridie? D-MacDonald?
bat Gomez 8 or 9 and go from there
The reason Gardy doesn’t move Gomez in the line-up is because when Cuddy comes back, Span sits. Why disrupt the lineup for something that would be temporary. Also, Gardy made a good point when he said how many times does the leadoff hitter actually leadoff an inning? Usually once. After that, anyone could be the leadoff hitter.
Her Id is a Mets fan.
my family got a puppy in early 1985. We named her Kirby… It was either that or Claudell.
Len3 you might want to get checked for rabies.
Gomez has the 2nd lowest OBP of all players eligible for the batting title. Span should lead off now, Gomez 9th. When Cuddy comes back, Gomez goes to AAA.
They aren’t going to send Gomez down. There is no way. He’s covers more ground than Span and he has a better arm. He’s also much faster and has power. He’ll come around.
ES16 - it’s not really about “leading” off the game or innings, it’s about number of plate appearances over the course of a season (and game) the top of the order will get more ABs, especially your 1-3 hitters… wouldn’t you want your BEST hitters that get on base up more during the game and/or season? It’s really just simple math which Gardy has a hard time realizing… Speed does nothing sitting on the bench after 0-5 and 2K’s…
Bat him 9th, move everyone up… If the Twins get more ABs to Mauer, Morneau, and Kubel… it wouldn’t be a shock that their offensive production increased…
I would just move everyone up and have Casilla lead off and Gomez at 9 and span at 8
ill bet carol even gets frustrated with gardy if it takes him this long to decide on something he has to do…..just thinkin…
the reason they will not send Gomez down is that would be admitting they really got short changed in the Santana deal
ES16, here’s the bottom line….best hitters on team = Casilla, Mauer, Morneau…so who do you want setting their table, Go-go or Span?
The answer is Span.
It doesn’t matter a whole lot. The 1st place hitter is going to get about 150 more PAs than the 9th place hitter. We’re 98 games in so for the rest of the season thats only about 60ab. If you flip Span’s .400 obp w/ Gomez’s .280 the result is about 7 fewer outs over 64 games or about one fewer out in 240. The difference is less than 1/2 of 1%.
it probably is irking Carol that Gardy just bought the brooms today for the “sweep” over the Rangers.. opps…
Everyone is talking about Span like he’s the next Tony Oliva. He’s had 81 at-bats! Everyonoe fails to mention he’s only had three hits in last 20 at-bats. Sure he started off hot, but he’s coming back to reality now.
Plus, let’s take the ‘batting order doesn’t really matter’ line and spin it the other way:
If batting order doesn’t really matter, why are they so willing to continue doing something illogical simply because it might hurt someone’s confidence to change. Obviously, batting order does matter.
I dont think Span is the answer to leadoff either… Casilla has learned to take more pitches and draw walks, as well as hit for contact (he can also bunt hit! so we won’t miss Gomez attempts at it either!)
Let’s keep our eye on the ball here people.
Some woman named her female dog Jeter.
Discuss.
Too bad the lineup DOES matter, I think everyone would have a problem with batting Mauer and Morneau 8th and 9th… oh, you say it’s silly? well, it’s only 150 less ABs over the course of the year!!
Dont kid yourself bisonaudit.
Batting order doesn’t matter. (size matters), Read this:
ESPN SAYS JETER IS GOOD IN BED
ESPN reported today that Derek is a fantastic lover in bed. A scouting report or something was sent in by a stripper in downtown NY. I swear this was on ESPN, but I’m sure most are not surprised they reported it.
I’d kick that dog. 
actually, no need to fear a dog like that, it has no range anyway.
Gardy is probably waiting for Punto to come back healthy to bat him lead-off.
I don’t say that the line up didn’t matter. I said it ‘doesn’t matter MUCH’
i.e. it deserves much less attention than it gets here.
FYI: for all you out of market folks with DirecTV. MLB Extra Innings is in free-preview mode for the entirety of this Yankees series.
I am in NYs market so i am stuck with Kay and Singleton even though i have Xtra Innings…ugh
Shawn in Binghamton says:
actually, no need to fear a dog like that, it has no range anyway.
HA!
So what impact do you think the baseball channel will have next year? I can see us getting screwed out of watching some games because there only available on the new channel.
BISON:
Agree. It especially doesn’t matter enough to change when you’re in first place.
Lavelle - You seem to be leaving out the fact that you recently named your new goldfish “Rex” after your favorite Bears QB.
That woman can go around New York saying. “Jeter is my…”
it makes alot of sense who leads off every game and whos batting in front of those .300 hitters….what a moronic statement….why not just lead off with morneau then….one in every crowd….
The Twins are in 1st place?
I am looking forward to the baseball channel, assuming they will play classic games during the off season like the big ten network and nfl network.
We aren’t in 1st place…
You would think you would want to give as many opportunities as you can to your best hitters to make an impact during the course of a game… I guess I’m one that would rather not start the game with 1 out because my leadoff hitter strikes out once every 4 ABs
Shawn do you know off hand how much they’ll charge for it?
BISON:
keep the faith, baby
keep the faith!
Let’s see… Gardy, who has won an impressive number of division titles and has a track record of getting the most out of his players, thinks Gomez should be at the top of the order… and some armchair bloggers, who no one would pay 2 cents to coach at any level of professional baseball, want Span to be the leadoff hitter… who do you think is right?
BC,
i have the sports pack on Directv so i am sure it will just slot in. Not sure how it will work otherwise
ES16:
us
I’ll bet Gomez is faster then that dog but the dog can hit a curve ball.
A must read for ES16.
“Fooled by Randomness.” Nassim Nicholas Taleb
Thanks Shawn i thought maybe it was something you had to pay extra for like the NFL network.
My understanding is that MLBN is going to be on the same tier with ESPN and the like, not a premium channel.
My sons dog is named “Kubel”. cute little fella, half Bichon and half cocker.
Since Gomez is leading off…he better bunt…no way fat Sydney gets it, maybe Arod though, but gotta challenge him and jeter with some bunts to the left side.
Bc,
i am not certain of it, it might be xtra, the NFL network is a part of the pack i get for 11 etxra bucks….
same with FSN North, but what would i do without Kent Hrbek outdoors living in upstate NY
Span is the better lead-off hitter. That is a no-brainer. I would like to think that Gardy won’t change the line-up because we are playing well right now and that is the reason Span is batting 9th, but as soon as Punto gets semi-healthy he’ll go back to platooning Harris and Buscher and make Punto full-time, which makes no sense at all. So unfortunately Gardy’s line-up decisions are head scratchers at times.
Shawn i would love to get direct TV but the wife wont let me and i do get FSN on cable but not the NFL network or ESPN news thats why i doubt i’ll get the new baseball network.
Mudcat -
That’s the answer I expected. However, as Span’s numbers continue to head south, it won’t be long before the rabid pack of negativity turns on him and shreds him to pieces.
It wasn’t so long ago everyone was ripping on Gardy for playing DY, because he was worthless. Haven’t seen anyone rip him lately. Just remember, it’s a long season. Every players goes through ups and downs. With younger players, the ups and downs may last longer and be more obvious, but things usually turn around.
I am glad i got the dish before the wife, she doesn’t like the look but likes the channels.
What is so bad about Gomez batting ninth? The guy needs to be out in the field. He does alot for the team out there, however, right now, his offense isn’t doing much for the team.
However, the real problem as I see it, is the team’s hot streak. They have won a ton of games with him batting leadoff, and as has been stated on here, time, after time, after time, you don’t mess with a streaking team. If they get hammered in NY, sure, at that point I can see the change happening. If they do okay to good, he is going to stay right where he is. I agree he needs to move, but I will patiently wait for the team to start losing first (I hope I have to wait a LONG, LONG time)
By then, it may become a moot point, if they start losing, it may be because some of the players that are playing above their heads may have come back to earth, and one of those players is the one everyone wants to put into the 1 hole. Let’s let this streak play out before we start making changes to the team that don’t NEED to happen.
Gomez, sure he has a crappy average, but guess what, the Twins are still winning, let’s just enjoy it for abit, okay?
I think if Gardy makes a big trade it will be for a new water softener…
Gardy isn’t always right either.. although as “couch bloggers” I guess we can’t have a different opinion than anyone in a “managerial” position. I’d hate to live in your world where you can’t challenge someone’s questionable moves…
Batting Gomez in the leadoff position was a mistake… to keep doing it despite the evidence against the move, it’s either ignorance, stupidity, or stubbornness to admit you were wrong (In Gardy’s case, it’s probably all 3.)
Don’t name your dog A-Rod.
It could have one of those “friendly” ways of saying hello.
Prediction:
Gomez will go o-fer for the the rest of the season and Gardy will call him the team’s MVP.
any word on cuddy’s CT scan
Make that a Kinetico water softener.
MLB has struck a much broader deal with the satellite and cable broadcasters. They’re going to be in 50,000,000 homes on Day 1. The model is different than NFLN, NBAN, or NHLN. It’s not a lock, but most of the major cable companies actually own a piece of MLBN so odds are it won’t be on a premium tier.
I’ve had the dish for years, and I would be hard pressed to let it go.
I am a huge Steelers fan, and without NFL ST, I would be like a fish out of water. Don’t know how I survived prior to the early nineties. No internet or DTV NFL ST.
Dang, how did any of us survive without the chance to bash our favorite Punto??
i hope it isn’t xtra
i already have MLB package, NFL ticket, and sports pack
of course i have been too cheap to pay the extra bucks to get HD
I hope thats true bison and i can’t wait to watch all the games in high def.
It’s one thing if everyone thought the Gomez was a leadoff hitter to start with (which they didn’t). When this was a 70 win team, the idea was that the kid had a chance to become a leadoff hitter. 1) This isn’t a 70 win team anymore. 2) Gomez, thus far, is who we thought he was. Tremendously talented, tremendously fast, tremendously raw, tremendously undisciplined at the plate.
Is Span the answer in the lead off spot? His minor league statistics don’t suggest that he is, but they do suggest that he’s a better choice than Gomez.
Me Too i’m a Steeler fan as well but i just go to the bar when there not on TV and the Twins are always on so that’s why i’m not hurting so bad without a dish.
BC of ND:
I hope it’s true, too. I don’t have anything definiative. I’m just going off of the descriptions in a couple brief articles I came across and trying to piece it together. But all indications are that they’re trying to learn from the mistakes of the other leagues and make it more widely available and more easily accessable.
Knock wood.
ES16,
Maybe this is creepy, seeing as how I’ve never seen you on these blogs, or maybe since I’ve never met you, and don’t even know your gender, etc…
But your post made me so happy I think I could kiss you. Haha.
Span has had EIGHTY-ONE AT-BATS. Will people stop talking about him like he’s some kind of Messiah? He’s got 2 hits and one walk in his last 18 plate appearances to go along with 5 Ks. He routinely makes webgems, but also has about a 1:1 ratio of bonehead plays in RF to go along with them. Matt Joyce’s double that he made a triple… Pudge’s “home run” in Comerica… Span outright just dropping a ball in right in his first callup, or recently not knowing where the baggy was behind him, and missing a ball by half a foot because the impact when he jumped backwards made him lose the ball.
He covers ground, he can take a walk, but lately, he’s looked pretty bad himself.
Man… Macri, Buscher, and Span all have a good first 10 days in the Majors this season and suddenly they’re akin to A-Rod, Jeter, and Abreu or something…
I call one of my pet snakes Nicky after LNP… He was the runt of his, hmmm… litter? Hatching? egg neighbors? Well, whatever it’s called, he was the runt, so he’s named after LNP. End of story. Thank you for reading.
I’d be fine with a trade for a kinetico softener, as long as we don’t have to give up Karl, the smartest pitcher in baseball.
gardy would never mess with the lineup when things are going good with the exception of putting punto in!
i’ve decided to only think what souhan thinks, then i’ll have instant credibility.
I’m pretty sure that FSN is inluded as a local channel here is South Dakota on Direct TV. I have a higher package, but my brother just has Plus HD DVR, and it has FSN as a local. NFL Network too.
Not bad of a lower priced package in my mind.
Since the All star game both Gomez and Span have 2 hits and a BB in 3 games. Gomez has 2 doubles, Span 1. They both scored 2 runs. Gomez has an RBI, Span none.
I just don’t get the calls for Span batting lead off at this point. 2 weeks ago, it’s a different story.
“AJ Pesh says:
July 21st, 2008 at 3:38 pm
Span is the better lead-off hitter. That is a no-brainer. I would like to think that Gardy won’t change the line-up because we are playing well right now and that is the reason Span is batting 9th, but as soon as Punto gets semi-healthy he’ll go back to platooning Harris and Buscher and make Punto full-time, which makes no sense at all. So unfortunately Gardy’s line-up decisions are head scratchers at times.”
It makes no sense to make Punto full time? The guy who’s hitting over .300 and is a defensive highlight reel. Yeah, that’s senseless.
Those 12 or 14 PAs make all the difference.
I don’t play for that team, so keep your kisses to yourself. But I’m glad you agree with my point. At least someone here has a foot in reality.
ES16,
One thing to remember about this blog.
The Twins could make the playoffs and World Series, win every game 30-0, and the over/under on when the complaints would begin after WS win is 2 hours. I’d bet heavily on the under.
Regards,
New lineup should be as follows:
1. Span
2. Casilla
3. Mauer
4. Morneau
5. Young (He is on a tear and could be the difference maker down the stretch)
6. Kubel
7. Buscher
8. Punto/Harris
9. Gomez (I actually think he will thrive here)
Be patient with Liriano. The last time he tried to rush his comeback it didn’t work out so well. Do a little fishing with Livan but make sure we get a good bite.
Well Dragon,
Even if the Twins sweep in the World Series 30-0 each game, I’m sure there’s a way it could’ve been done so they sweep 40-0.
i would slide the lineup up:
v Rightys
Casilla
Mauer
Morneau
Young
Kubel
Buscher
Harris
Span
Gomez
v Lefties
Casilla
Mauer
Morneau
Young
Harris
Kubel
Gomez
Span
LNP
Well, it’s nice to see there isn’t an alternative to batting Span or Gomez in the lead off position…
Um, as I’ve already fore mentioned above, Casilla should be leading off, and move Gomez to 9th, and move everyone else up in the order (I know this will never happen) but that’s where I disagree with Gardy and pretty much everyone else here, oh my god! My own opinion!
The next chapter meeting of the LNP for President Club will conveine in the Gardenheire living room at 1pm August 14. Refreshments will be provided.
“Also, Gardy made a good point when he said how many times does the leadoff hitter actually leadoff an inning? Usually once. After that, anyone could be the leadoff hitter.”
This might have been mentioned but I didn’t read all the posts. This isn’t a good point because even though Gomez will only leadoff once and then it “rolls around” he’ll still get about 150 more AB’s throughout the regular season than he would batting ninth. That’s way too many AB’s to be giving away and at this point, that’s exactly what Gomez is doing, giving away outs.
Shawn, holy crap, we agree!
I agree with Me Too’s earlier point that Gardy shouldn’t shuffle the lineup while the team is winning. The only exception would be if there was good reason to believe Gomez would benefit from batting #9.
Patrick, I tried to explain that above, but most people “on here” like to give away outs, they seem to think it’s a non issue when it comes to winning games and scoring runs…
I thought getting out was the OPPOSITE goal of a hitter?!
By Tim Dierkes [July 21 at 3:47pm CST]
Tough news for the Yankees - catcher Jorge Posada is headed back to the DL and is considering season-ending shoulder surgery.
MarkW:
It’s not as if Souhan has a copyright on ‘Gomez shouldn’t be leading off’.
The idea’s been around since… about April 1st.
Ok, an someone explain how a #1 hitter can have 150 more AB’s per year? Mathematically it doesn’t jive. That would mean that for 150 out of 162 games the final batter would be the #1 batter in the lineup.
I like this lineup
Carew
Oliva
Kirby
Killer
Morneau (DH)
Gaetti
Mauer
Allison
Bruno
Gomez should be instructed to forget about bunting and concentrate on his swing until he gets that straightened out. I think that, more than anything, is screwing with his head. Gomez doesn’t want to lead off anyway - he wants to be the clean-up hitter.
Plunkton it makes my head hurt thinking about some of the stats that get thrown out there on this blog.
No that would mean that 150 out of 162 games, anyone but the 9 hitter is the final batter of the game. It’s plate appearances, not at bats. The straight math is 144, but apparently the #1 hitter is supposed to make a few less outs than the #9 hitter over the course of a season. Not that you could tell by looking at the local club.
Last time Gomez was slumping bad everybody wanted him sent down - then he hit for the cycle in Detroit and played well for a while. He’ll bounce back. I don’t mind dropping him in the order, but if anybody should be leading off instead of Gomez it’s Casilla, not Span.
Bison: I’m not sure what you are talking about w/ Souhan (I dont read his articles in the first place)
but if he is NOW suggesting that Gomez shouldn’t be leading off… fine, but it’s been clear for me now for a long time, yet those on here still need a reason “to shuffle the lineup” when the team is winning… It’s like it’s brain surgery to figure out that the team is winning DESPITE the poor production from your leadoff hitter.
Wasn’t it Souhan’s article about how terrible Delmon Young was that sparked Delmon to turn his season around? It’s all base-on-balls and homers for Go-Go from here on out.
On average, the leadoff hitter should get 18 more PLATE APPEARANCES per year over the #2 guy. The #2 guy should get 18 more than the #3 guy, etc…
Thanks, thrylos98, for your stats at 3:58 on the Gomez/Span leadoff thing.
What it proves to me is that we need Beltre…..because we’re essentially a 24-man team with Lamb still around, and someone is going to pinch us and wake us from our dream as Span continues to cool off and Gomez makes slow progress on his learning curve.
Not feeling very optimistic about this Yankees series.
bisonaudit says:
July 21st, 2008 at 4:06 pm
“The next chapter meeting of the LNP for President Club will conveine in the Gardenheire living room at 1pm August 14. Refreshments will be provided.”
I have already taken the day off work to attend.
span and boof to the padres for kouzmanoff and a prospect or bag of balls.
not the strongest yankee lineup i have ever seen
I’ve been begging for that for almost a month now Gobble. Let’s see if it happens.
The Padres are recently reported to be willing to trade Kouz for a young outfielder.
Ben W-
Go Go hit for the cycle against the white sux
“Ok, an someone explain how a #1 hitter can have 150 more AB’s per year? Mathematically it doesn’t jive. That would mean that for 150 out of 162 games the final batter would be the #1 batter in the lineup.”
Since the leadoff hitter bats first in the lineup, he’s obviously going to get to his second AB more quickly than the #2-#9 hitters. Therefore, he’ll be more likely to get more AB’s than any other hitter in the lineup day in and day out. 150 AB’s was an arbitrarty number but the point is that he’ll get more plate appearances. Your worst hitter shouldn’t be getting the most oppurtunities.
The team plane will be making a stop in Minneapolis between the Oakland and Toronto series to hold a formal nominating convention on September 1st on the Campus of the University of Minnesota. For press credientials call 800.NP4PREZ
Boof to the St. Paul Saints for 3 mauer quickswings, the ball pig, and a random pitcher.
The 150 PAs isn’t arbitary. It may be a little high but it’s not arbitary. If every slot in the line up makes the same number of outs randomly, the expectation would be that the leadoff man would get 144 more PAs than the last man in the order.
Patrick, yes, I understand that, as I mentioned in my 2nd posting… but 150 is way too many that someone threw out there and it appears was done without careful research.
Say what you want but that ball pig puts buts in the seats. Throw in the ‘No Wave Zone’ sign and we can talk.
from mlb:
“If they do something and you can get someone who can really help us set up to take the place of Neshek, that would be great,” Gardenhire said. “Or if they can go and find a big right-handed bat that would fit in my lineup, all of those things would be great.
“I can only control what I have in this clubhouse, and we’re going to play with these guys and play as hard as we can.”
Here’s the 1992 data from Retrosheet courtesy of Dan Agonistes study musings on whether Barry Bonds should bat leadoff. AL 143 NL 139
American League
Lineup PA PA/G PA/162
1 10621 4.68 758.64
2 10395 4.58 742.50
3 10161 4.48 725.79
4 9911 4.37 707.93
5 9661 4.26 690.07
6 9428 4.16 673.43
7 9176 4.05 655.43
8 8915 3.93 636.79
9 8619 3.80 615.64
National League
Lineup PA PA/G PA/162
1 8995 4.63 749.58
2 8809 4.53 734.08
3 8616 4.43 718.00
4 8413 4.33 701.08
5 8205 4.22 683.75
6 7996 4.11 666.33
7 7766 3.99 647.17
8 7536 3.88 628.00
9 7322 3.77 610.17
Although I have probably seen Gomez fewer times than anyone on this blog and, of course, I know less then Gardy, I will still drop my two cents.
Do you guys think the Twins should begin to embrace Gomez’s personality as a free-swinger and begin to project him as a middle-of-the-lineup guy/RBI man. He seems to have the attitude for it, as he rises to the occasion with RISP (.315/.390/.425). He could certainly hit for more power in the upcoming seasons, and he will still be fast, which will be a bonus for an RBI-man.
I think its worth sending Gomez to the 9th slot in the order, where he can perhaps be a little more free to swing away and develop more as a hitter that makes good contact regularly. Batting 9th without the pressure of just trying to get on base might help him more than being leadoff now (although I am contending that it may not be in the Twins best interest to project him as a lead-off hitter).
Gobble,
That interview was also used in today’s Pioneer Press, and leaves out the bit where Gardenhire follows up the “Or if they can go and find a big right-handed bat that would fit in my lineup” piece with a stunning: “…but you’d have to tell me who that is.”
Maybe I’m interpreting it wrong, but it seems like Gardenhire almost feels like there’s no one he can take out of the lineup and that it doesn’t need an addition… Hopefully I’m wrong, but that sounds like the ol’ stubborn Gardenhire to me.
“Patrick, yes, I understand that, as I mentioned in my 2nd posting… but 150 is way too many that someone threw out there and it appears was done without careful research.”
Sorry, wasn’t trying to be patronizing. But that number (according to Aaron Gleeman and bisonaudit) isn’t high. It’s fairly accurate.
144=162-(162/9)
Rising to the occasion doesn’t exist. Other than that. If his plate approach is going to be that of Jaque Jones, when he grows into his power, which he may, he should hit 6th or 7th, just like Jaque.
Nice work, Bison. So, we can see that in the AL and NL both there are on average 16-20 more plate appearances for the #1 hitter over the #2 hitter, and so on. So the 150 was from the #1 batter over the #9 batter. Sheesh….whoever started this should have said that right from the start!
East Coast,
I’ve wondered that too. I think it depends on how Carlos progresses over the next couple seasons. He IS only 22. I think if he can get the discipline and average up a bit, then he’ll be a great leadoff man, but I don’t think he’s necessarily a bad fit in the middle of the lineup either.
A guy like Curtis Granderson, for example, could easily be a middle-of-the-lineup bat. Same with Sizemore. Gomez isn’t on their level yet, but give him a few years, and I could see him being that type of player as well.
Some interesting stuff from the Newark Star-Ledger. Seems the Yankees are interested in Bay and/or Nady from the Pirates. What names are being tossed around? Do the names Austin Jackson and Ian Kennedy sound familiar? Right… off limits for Johan Santana, but for Xavier Nady, hellyeah! Oh… and Melky Cabrera doesn’t interest the Pirates. Ouch… that’s gotta sting.
Sounds to me like Gardy doesn’t see anyone out there who 1) fits the description and 2) the Twins can actually win in the trade market.
Patrick, no problem. I just have a hard time making sense of all the stats that get thrown around the blogosphere and when I see something that doesn’t look quite right I have to question and investigate.
Why did you jump away when the dog tried to LICK you? I could see jumping if it seemed vicious, but it was being friendly!
No Posada, he is back on the DL
Plunkton,
I took this years stats for Gomez, Morneau and Young and projected them out for a full year. As used these 3 players because they have been in the same spot in the batting order for most of the year. Mauer’s stats require more analysis as he has pinch hit/come into games late so his numbers don’t add up.
Gomez - 727 Plate Appearances
Morneau - 702
Young - 676
So conservatively for the Twins this season, the #9 hitter would have about 75 less PA than Gomez.
Look at it this way, The #9 guy is only guaranteed 3 PA/game. The #1 guy is virtually guaranteed 4.
maybe LEN III doesn’t like Jeter
dog tongues are gross. they clean their anus with that thing.
Stupidest Gardy comment in the long history of stupid Gardy comments, right here:
“He’s lightning in a bottle,” Gardenhire said of Go-Go. “He makes contact, gets on base, anything can happen.” See http://www.startribune.com/sports/twins/25671764.html?location_refer=Sports:highlightModules:4.
As Souhan adroitly points out, “Of 168 major league players who qualify for the batting title, Gomez ranks 163rd — and last among all leadoff men — in on-base percentage, at .285.” What Souhan doesn’t point out is that he’s second in the league in strikeouts also. Yet, according to Gardenhire, Gomez “gets on base and makes contact.” If Girardi, Piniella, or Francona made an asinine comment like that their respective media would crucify them. But here the cream-puff media just let’s it slide again. The apologists better never again ridicule anyone who criticizes Gardenhire. You would think that a big-league manager would have enough prudence never to say something so stupid and obviously incorrect… even to the timid Minnesota media.
i posted this couple days ago. at the time i didn’t realize that Young had a SLG % of .500 since april or may.
Casilla
Mauer
Young
Morneau
Kubel
Harris
Buscher
Span
Gomez
Someone shoould really talk to gardy about that commercial. After that they need to talk to Blyleven about that horrible private eye slot.
i read somewhere that for each batting order slot there is a 20 PA difference or maybe it was AB. Either way that adds up a lot in talking about Gomez batting first.
Again my biggest quandry is that the Twins are scoring runs and winning games. Should they make wholesale changes now??
On liriano, I think the Twins need 6 viable starters ready. Boof doesn’t fit that right now. So I think the Twins should stay the course and it will work itself out. i expect to see Liriano up here by early Aug if he continues to do well.
Draft Gomez for VP!
JP,
I would LOVE to see Delmon bat third. He’s swinging a good bat, and hitting in front of Morneau is gonna get him a ton of fastballs to drive, which can only help build a reputation as a respected/feared hitter in this league.
Gardenhire would never do it, but that lineup looks just fine to me.
So after this ‘Jeter’ licking incident. How many degrees of seperation is LENIII from Jessica Biel?
someone should talk to bremer about his getting sexually aroused every time the twins hit a semi-deep fly ball.
How else I’m I supposed to know to look up from my laptop?
“Sheesh….whoever started this should have said that right from the start!”
Not sure if I started it but if I did, I did say that:
“he’ll still get about 150 more AB’s throughout the regular season than he would batting ninth.”
Here it is, people. Remember, you heard it from me first. Since we bloggers should definitely have a say in everything this team does, I say we resolve all this Livan vs. Liriano debate right now. In fact, I wish to propose a settlement right now that, ultimately, could kill two nagging birds with one stone. Let’s face it, the two hot-button issues right now pestering this franchise and its online devotees are integrally related: 1) Livan or Liriano; and 2) what if the young pitchers breakdown (considering they’re not use to this many innings…Livan, being an “inning-eater,” apparently helps with that). How about…
Livan AND Liriano!? Huh, think about it. Twins will make a little history by having the first six-man rotation (?), and consequently, keep the arms from falling off of the lads in the rotation. Who said that you had to have a five-man rotation anyhow? It’s not written in the rules, as far as I know. I remember as recently as the mid-eighties when a four-man rotation was the accepted, but just the same unwritten, tenet. But then Ron Darlin went on the DL for the Mets, Rick Aguilera was called-up and did such a great job that the Mets didn’t want to take him out of the rotation even when Darlin returned… voila, the five-man rotation was born! I say it’s time to implement the six-man rotation and thus do away with all this 100-pitch count limit crap that’s apparently etched in stone somewhere these days. It would solve all the problems… Livan happy… Liriano happy… Baker/Perkins/Slowey/Blackburn happy… Gardy happy… and, most importantly, the BLOGGERS happy!
Enjoy the game everyone.
How quickly people forget that Gomez was hitting well over .300 over a month into his major league season. Everyone is crying for Span, but he hasn’t been around teh block long enough for his numbers to mean anything.
6 man rotation sounds good
I hope that was sarcasm Football…
That’s been suggested approximately 100 times thus far. You’re far from the first. And in my opinion, as long as Livan’s starting games, my stomach will be in knots, and I’ll be more scared to watch that game than a documentary hosted by Oprah.
the question isnt liriano or hernandez anymore its Liriano or bass/boof
6 man rotation it is
I wouldn’t mind a 6 man rotation, but since Gardy would NEVER do that, I’d be happy with Livan coming out of the pen in long relief with the occasional spot start to spell our young arms.
Oh, and Livan’s spot starts would all (hopefully) happen in the Dome.
That post sounds kinda snobby, reading it over. No ill feelings intended, sorry.
Several people have suggested it, however. I like peoples’ suggestions to move Livan to mop-up role better, and use him if needed when a starter struggles or gets hurt, but I don’t see that happening.
A trade or injury will open up Liriano’s spot I think, and not much else.
boof needs to go. he’s a right handed, harder throwing mark redman. an overweight headcase.
I agree that I wouldn’t be sad to see Boof go, but people are giving up on him awfully quick. The guy barely has a full season’s worth of MLB innings under his belt.
I think he’d have some decent trade value to a team looking to rebuild. He’s talented, just can’t stay consistent. Mid 90’s fastball and a great curve when it’s working… I think a lot of teams would like to buy low on Bonser.
The six-man suggestion isn’t bad when you exert the same frame of mind that the Twins do. The bottom-line is that they’re not going to take Livan out of the rotation…ever! UI remember in 2004 or 2005 when La Velle suggested to Gardy that they move Joe Mays to the bullpen or DFA. His reply: “We don’t do that sort of thing around here.” Barriero on KFAN fleeced him pretty good for implying that it’s more important not to hurt a player’s feelings than to win ballgames. This coddling behavior still reigns today with his handling of the Gomez situation. You piss off Liriano long enough and he’ll be the next pulling a Santana and demanding a trade. Moreover, have you seen that both the Yankees and Chi-Sox are in the top five worst hitting teams against LHP? Sure would be nice to throw him at the Whities next week!
does coomer think that he belongs in the hall of fame?
From today’s Strib article — “It’s just a hard situation,” Twins righthander Livan Hernandez said. “He’s one of my best friends … but everybody here is pitching good. I don’t think anything’s going to happen right now.”
Livan’s last 10 starts — 6.5+ ERA.
That’s “pitching good”?!?!?!!!!!!!!!!!!
Glad General Manager Hernandez has a handle on this starting rotation thing.
The 6-man rotation is a horribly bad idea because Livan would be in it.
What is the over/under for Livan staying in NY after the team is done for this series?
If we could get the FSN crew and Gardy to stop genuflecting to all things Yankee, maybe the Twins would stop wetting themselves at Yankee Stadium.
An okay AB for Gomez……….but not for a leadoff hitter.
Therefore, not an okay AB for Gomez.
Casilla with a dandy AB. Why can’t he lead off?
Souhan has suggested that Gomez be moved down in the lineup, and in the past he suggested D. Young be given a day off or two because he was slumping while playing every single game. Let’s not hang him for suggesting these two be sent away with their bags packed, like so many other posts here. If Span is 2 for his last 20 or so and Gomez is 2 for his last 40, why not make a swap of these two? Because we’re winning? My attitude is to always look for that little edge to make things better. As for Casilla batting lead off. Correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t we try that last year and he was horrible? I know Casilla is much better this year, but he is doing great in the 2nd slot, so let’s leave him there.
SHAWN, SHAWN, SHAWN, SHAWN, SHAWN! ! !
WHERE THE HELL IS HRBEK? ? ?
YOU! YOU’RE OUT OF THE LOOP! ! !
“Shawn in Binghamton says:
July 21st, 2008 at 4:12 pm
I like this lineup
Carew
Oliva
Kirby
Killer
Morneau (DH)
Gaetti
Mauer
Allison
Bruno”
Thanks, Macleod, for answering my question before you knew I was asking it!
But of Go-go and Spano don’t start get going……….
Here comes the big 5 for the Yanks.
Then a bunch of AAAA types.
Morneau and Killer at 1B better than Hrbek, guess i could have put the Killer someplace else
Beltre with a .333 OBP. Looks like he’ll get to the 85 RBI mark with about 25 HRs.
Walk A-Rod. I don’t give a damn if the bases are loaded.
Here’s my series prediction. Twins win some, lose some. People are all pissy regardless.
Anybody else here the Yankee PA?
“Jason Cub-el” 
Romer,
“Livan’s last 10 starts — 6.5+ ERA.
That’s “pitching good”?!?!?!!!!!!!!!!!!”
For him it just might be.
Jason Kubbel needed an rbi there,
way to do your job Yankee PA announcer…its tough work to say baseball player names for a couple hours each night, but if you have trouble, just ask someone near you…
but if you have trouble, just ask someone near you…
Provided they don’t work for State Farm.
Walk A-Rod. I don’t give a damn if the bases are loaded.
Not a bad idea.
*pfft* Rodriquez.
He would do that.
I wasn’t feeling pissy until I read T’s “People are all pissy regardless.”
Now I’m permanently pissy for the rest of this game because they didn’t intentionally walk A-Rod.
Any help out there for me, Carlos G?
It’s a cooker in New York City tonight. Moustache and Sydney are old. Blackie and A-Rod are not.
Still hope for this game tonight.
I officially propose the “Rod Rule”
When A-Rod gets to the plate, you can choose to either face him, or force him to sit down but put one run on the board for his team.
I bet most teams do it.
Mr.romer, If misery loves company, I’m with you 100%. What a lousy start!
I dunno if you want to put more men on base for this lineup. Especially with Giambi behind A-Rod.
Also, I haven’t been paying close attention to the zone. Has it been fairly fair thus far?
Did I just hear the PA call him “Brendan Thomas” ???
I sure hope the Twins get that strike as the game goes on…
Bottom feeders are going to have to carry the m&m boys for a while, I guess.
Don’t tell me that if a Twins’ player was in the face of an ump like that, he wouldn’t be tossed…
I believe that HP Ump Everitt is a Red Sox fan. Good on him.
Didja see Gomez do his high hurdle over that Casilla RBI hit?
Our igniters comin’ through so far.
Harris showing his typical athleticism. He’s tryin’ though…….
melky slides, kay says “thats a good way to get hurt” kay is wise this time
Do you guys think the Twins could get
Encarnacion from the Reds or Cantu from the Marlins in a trade to add a right handed 3b man?
87 heat index in NYC tonight. Not so bad I guess.
For starters David, what are their NL BA’s this year please?
I don’t think Cantu is going anywhere unless he brings back a good pitcher in return. He’s having a phenomenal year and the Marlins are serious contenders for the time being.
Encarnacion is more of a possibility, but I’m not as big on him as some other people. His numbers away from Great American are down quite a bit, and isn’t he known for poor defense at third?
He DOES crush lefties though, and the Twins could definitely use some of that. I don’t think he’s available, however, so it’s a moot point probably.
Coomer gives us lots of yuks, huh.
NOT! (The left field fans are “worth a couple runs a game” for the Yankees.
I think Blackie needs to run around the clubhouse between innings to get a bit tired…he’s too high in the zone right now.
Coomer needs to mix in a couple “Pick Two’s/soup and salad” at Panera. He’s looking a bit hefty in that red golf shirt.
How come Span wasn’t over there to catch that ball?
:)>
Encarnacion
.267 18hr 39 rbi 352 obp 511 slg $450,000.00
Cantu
.291 18hr 58 rbi 338 obp 493 slg $500,000.00
Would a double play be too much to ask for?
Already 5 hits off Blackie in 1-2/3 innings.
Somebody needs to get a bell on that strikezone…
Casilla freaks…….
Oh these kids.
Okay…seriously. Tighten those wheels while we’re at it.
Yeah, I think the play there is to first. Get the out and let the run score. It’s early enough in the game and the Twins are getting hits off of Ponson.
Geesh Blackburn can’t get anyone out. Guess we should be happy it is only singles he is giving up.
Seriously, a DP is nedded NOW before this gets out of control
Correction:
5 hits in 1-1/3 innings.
Now 6 in 1-1/3.
“Would a double play be too much to ask for?”
Wow…Abreu’s fast for a big man. But that’s a big non-out at home. They go to first instead and the inning’s over 4-2.
Can they get one out?
Damon and Abreau both could have hit into DP’s but just a little to hard to turn.
When things go wrong…they go WRONG.
This game is not looking good so far. Argh.
Bonsor coming in. Figure at this point it can’t get much worse.
“Harris showing his typical athleticism. He’s tryin’ though……”
No agressiveness at all on the DP attempt by Harris.
Result? Bye-bye Blackie.
6 runs given up already geesh
Well, they are bringing Bonser in already it looks like they are giving up on the game already.
Nora, would you rather see them burn out Reyes, Crain, Guerrier, and Nathan?
It’s a long relief outting, it’s either Boof or Bass.
Looks like the boys need to learn how to play in the really bright lights. Blackburn looked like a deer in headlights.
They may still come back and challenge in this game, but they are going to have to gather themselves and show that they believe they are as good as the top teams on their turf…so far the debacle in Chi, the sweep in Boston and the statement being sent by the Yanks has to be demoralizing.
If they are a contender they’ll shrug this off, make a run at these guys tonight and then come out and beat them tomorrow.
It’s always the last step against the big dogs that is the bitch.
Bonser versus Pontoon.
Who would have thought THAT ?
how ’bout Boof?
All we need is a perfect bullpen and 5 runs.
Think I’ll go to the Lake.
Nora, who should they bring in if not Bonser
Agreed, Willie.
It would be nice to see the lineup go out and kick Ponson around to at least force the Yanks to go to their bullpen tonight.
Sends the message that they’re not going to rollover.
I don’t see the Boston series as a total disaster (provided they’re able to bring in that 8th inning guy to replace Neshek) It was hard luck with the normally dependable bullpen guys getting knocked around.
The big play that inning wasn’t Harris, it was Casilla. Facing the Yankees early in the game, give up the run and get the out at first.
That’s just my opinion, but you don’t want to take stupid chances (like sending Harris). They got lucky that one paid out. But the other didn’t.
Willie, Yankees have a worse record then the Twins. How are the Yankees a top team? They are paying well tonight but that does not mean they are better.
For the record, Casilla had plenty of time for that force play at home. He threw the ball in the dirt instead. Should be an error.
The Yankees are a worse record by all of 2 games I believe. Hardly “worse”.
Not to mention that lineup is very solid, with the weakness being more their pitching than their hitting.
Nora,
If you can’t see the experience, professionalism, calm of the Yankees and how they work a pitcher then we have nothing to talk about. That team is the most patient, experienced team there is and they are schooling the baby Twins.
The Yanks may have problems with their mound staff but there is nothing wrong with their lineup…even without Matsui and Posada.
Cripes, the Twins ARE really young. You can’t force experience.
Well, regardless they have a worse record and saying the Twins having to prove they can play against a ‘top team’ who they have a better record then is kind of overstating things imo.
romer,
it was an error on Casilla…
T,
Cano, Cabrera, Molina and Gardner in the last 4 spots are not all that solid…
Yankees are having a nice game, let’s see what happens through the course of the series.
The Twins just do not play well in that building. 3-16 under Gardy.
Yep. Definately going to be one of thsoe games.
Wow, that was way gone.
We need Punto st short and third tonight.
regardless they have a worse record
By two games. TWO GAMES.
Now Morneau with a little late jump on the high pickoff.
Twins have never played that well in Yankee Stadium you are right, Shawn. Even with more veteren players.
uh, 1 game
This is turning into a mail-in game. They don’t look like they were ready to play.
Nora,
I said “on their turf” Read better.
And I believe I said they need to gather themselves and come back tonight to show they aren’t cowed and beat them tomorrow night.
Sorry, but the Yankees are more experienced, play Boston and Tampa about twice as much as we do and their record, which is only 2 games worse than us, means nothing to me. This is post-All Star game baseball and the wheat gets separated from now until the end of Sept.
Good night.
Are they closing Yankee stadium? That’s weird, this is the first I’ve heard of it.
This is good for a laugh, if anybody needs one:
thrylos, while they’re bottom four aren’t “solid”…take a look at their opening 5.
Which opening 5 would you rather have?
twins clubhouse attendant is going have to pick up some Shout stain remover after the twins are done crapping all over themselves in fear.
T, once again do the Yankees have a better record then the Twins? No, I don’t care how little the difference is!
Are the twins crapping with fear or did blackburn just not have it tonight? I haven’t seen any crap stains yet…
Yeah Tony,
by the way, have you heard about Brett Favre? hehe
Tony I agree. The stains I see are from this blog. LOL
162 games, Nora.
dinking and dribbling with a couple HRs
need the matchup tomorrow
I agree it is 162 games. We will see who is better then.
Boof is a goof. Hopefully not in the Twins future plans.
Nice catch by Melky!
Okay everybody…new Moral Victory Goal.
Get at least one inning in which they don’t score a run.
i think it is a combination. they look nervous. to me it looks like blackburn did not have it because he is nervous. I don’t recall him pitching that poorly, even on other nights when he did not have his best stuff. Leaving the ball up, difficulty throwing strikes.
Terrible at-bats by Morneau, Kubel, Buscher, and Harris.
If Bert is correct in his theory about too much time off and being too strong then Slowey will probably have similar issues. I am not sure that his success is predicated on the sinker so it may not be as big a deal as tonight, but Rasner, IIRC, pitched well against us before (I admit I could be wrong here.)
Hopefully, the Twins can show some grit, score some runs and show the Yanks they aren’t going to roll over and Slowey has the command of his fastball. I really want something good to happen tonight so that they show these guys that they think they can sit at the big table too.
As odd as it may sound their better chance may be against Moose with Perkins (did I just write that?)
Well, I don’t actually know. It could be a bad night or something else but I am not a mind reader.
I know they’re down by six, but let’s be fair… we’re looking at a combination of Sidney Ponson, Ross Ohlendorf, Kyle Farnsworth, etc. for the rest of the game… They’ve come back from worse odds this season.
there is no one thing you can point at, sure Blackie didn’t have his best stuff, but most of the balls were not hit hard.
It is just a bad game…..
the problem is they have too many of these in that stadium.
i went to a game last year, i was pissed when i saw Silva was pitching
of course he got shelled
Agreed Ben. Seems like they’re in a rush to get outta there tonight. At this point, guess I can’t blame them too much.
No, I don’t care how little the difference is!
You’re absolutely right. Also, Livan I believe has 9 or 10 wins comparred to Johan’s 8 for the Mets.
Therefore, Livan is the better pitcher. I don’t care about the rest of the stats…wins/losses are the only ones that matter damnit!
Ponson is falling behind every Twins hitter and they’re swinging at the first strike they see.
T,
That reminds me of a question I have and haven’t been able to find the answer to (not that I’ve looked extensively).
Anyone know if any team’s ever scored in each frame of a game? That would be a pretty demoralizing effort for the losing team…
It’s hard to take when you get b**ch slapped around by Ponson twice in a season.
Steve,
i am pretty sure it has happened… with no numbers to back it up
T, Wins are a pretty important stat though don’t you agree LOL
Steve , it’s happened 13 times, most recently by the Yankees in 06
I know I’ve come close to doing it in MLB ‘06, haha… never quite gotten there though.
I wanna see the Yanks do it here tonight… and still have the Twins come back and win.
Talk about demoralizing, haha.
Moral Victory #1.
Okay, next goal.
Score some more runs…I don’t care how many at this point.
Trivia time..A young MN-born player played his first major league game at Yankee Stadium in 1982. His team was victorious and he had two hits, including the game winner. Do you know the name of the player? And the irony involving the winning hit?
Well, that puts an end to that discussion. No runs given up in the bottom of the 4th
we need to knock Ponson around, this is bullcrap
didn’t Hrbek do that in 81?
We’re getting back in this game this half inning
Scoring at least a run in every inning has happened 6 times in MLB history:
Boston vs. Cleveland (9-16-1903)
Cleveland vs. Boston (7-7-1923)
New York vs. St. Louis (7-26-1939)
Chicago vs. Boston (5-11-1949)
Kansas City vs. Oakland (9-14-1998)
New York vs. Toronto (4-29-2006)
there you go
Yeah, I know Hrbek did it in 81, did we have someone else do it in 82?
I think he hit a homer in extra innings.
Moral Victory #2.
Okay, the next goal is to get to the Yankees bullpen yet tonight.
I think Morneau’s hand is bothering him, I hope that’s not the case because if it is we can kiss this season good bye.
if his hand is bothering him they should take him out of this game.
Shawn, You are right. It was ‘81. OOPS! What about the irony question?
the irony question i didn’t know
Jim Eisenreich?
ah 81…haha I just looked up players born in MN and searched for ones thay debuted in 1982.
“I’d kick that dog.”
I’d kick the woman.
don’t try to change the subject, moss.
On another note, here is an indication of the sad state of the Twins organization:
DePaula started tonight’s game at Rochester. And he went ahead to give 5 runs in 2 innings…
Supposedly, this is a pitching-rich organization. Why do they let this happen?
well the Young Twin are getting an experience tonight.. hopefully they will shape up for the next 2 games.. anyone still think our young starters are ALL way too good to trade for Beltre?
You’re right Fire, Blackburn is garbage. We should trade him right now.
Hrbek, batting third in the lineup, got an infield hit between the mound and first that rolled about 60 ft. The pitcher was Tommy John. His game winning hit was a home run in extra innings giving the Twins a 3-2 victory. The Yankee pitcher was George Frasier who, ironically, was a Twins teammate on the ‘87 World Series team.
Does playing the game the “Twins Way” include fainting in the “Big Apple”?
Its been repeated many times.
I’m not sure if I would define that ironic. Maybe a coincidence.
i knew about the HR, but didn’t think you were going there with the irony
well played on that hit sir
Anybody else watching the Yes network on MLB TV? These guys are worse than the Detroit announcers.
pitching depth:
The Twins have lost 4 guys the last 2 years and only replaced 1.
They have 6 ML ready starters
2 more in AAA that could start.
then they have good starters in A and a couple in AA.
looks like a 1.5 year gap and since we got 5 young guys it shouldn’t be a big deal long term
“I’m not sure if I would define that as ironic. Maybe a coincidence.”
The Twins won in Yankee Stadium.
Call it a historical improbability.
rev,
I live in NY state, i got a put up with this f*ckers for 10 games, i hear ya man
If all it would take was one of our four young starters, I’d say sure, trade Blackburn or Perkins.
They want a Blanton-like package, meaning one of those four, another top prospect, and then another mid-level guy. Beltre isn’t worth giving up someone like Blackburn and Span, or Perkins and Luke Hughes, etc.
Blackburn and a mid-level prospect, sure. Perkins and a mid-level, sure. Not two good prospects… Beltre’s injured and having surgery on his hand this offseason anyway.
I like Beltre, but that price is a lot. I’d rather swing a trade for Kouzmanoff and Heath Bell.
pitching depth: also Bonser could still be a capable starter down the line
Why do they show holds for relief pitchers and not innings pitched? I hate that.
Moral Victory #3.
Okay, now let’s set the goal of making them have to go to Rivera.
Made him look silly there
darn
Rameriz has given up a hit to 29 guys in a row
errrr… has not
Top of 3rd. Texas is beating the pale Sox 3-0 (Hamilton has a HR)
dang it Boof
How much of this “can’t play in Yankee Stadium” is the coaching?
Bonser isn’t even capable of catching a cold let alone starting for us.
Is it weird if I still just feel like we’re gonna win this game? I think I’ve been spoiled by too many comebacks, haha.
Boof has looked really poor tonight.
that doesn’t even make sense
come on plunk someone!! show some life!!!
Steve,
a win would crush em, i’m all for it!
Bonser isn’t even capable of catching a cold let alone starting for us.
That line usually works better on a play that where a guy has to catch a ball. Pretty sure that went over the fence.
Is it weird if I still just feel like we’re gonna win this game?
A bit. But I think a better sign is that it isn’t the end of the world just because of this one game.
Gardy was a former Met right? he must still hold the “little brother noone wanted” hex close to his heart…
Yes! Another chapter in what will clearly be remembered as the “Craig Breslow Era” in Minnesota Twins history is beginning.
I don’t know about everyone else, but I can’t wait.
Fire,
Both Gardy and Andy were Mets once…
alright Gardy wake up!! now is when you bring in Bass not in the late innings when you fighting for a win
Manship pitched decent in AA…. 6 IP 1 ER 5 H 1 BB
I think Manship will be a stud soon with the big club
Maybe giving up Hrbek’s first home run and then having to hear it regularly later onisn’t ironic to you all, it is to me.
This is why I can live with one win out of this series.
On paper, Blackburn/Ponson looks like a no brainer.
But then you have to remember that Blackburn isn’t pitching to Ponson…
if he could get some decent outings in he could help that pitching situation in AAA
for the folks not watching the YES broadcast:
Who is the last Twins manager with a winning record at Yankees stadium?
Revere went 4 for 4 and is hitting .402
i think he is ready for Ft Myers
that could be the cheapest run of all time
That feeling I had is beginning to dissipate…
The wheels have fallen off…
Manship has a 4.50 ERA at AA.
Don’t know if the rest of you heard that but tonight is the most runs the Yanks have had like since april
Frank Quilici?
Whoever is giving Giambi fashion advice needs to tell him that the pornstache is not a good look. On the other hand if this baseball thing doesn’t work out he can always join The Village People.
Shooter had another 5 inning outing no earned runs
nope
10 runs is the most they have had since April? That is pretty bad for the Yankees–and for the Twins who seem to pitch well against every team except the Yankees and Red Sox. Thankfully they are done with them after this series.
Mr. revdrev, I’m about two hours SE of you and think that these games in NY have a lot to do with youthful Twins’ teams and, to a lesser degree, mediocre coaching.
IP H R ER BB SO HR ERA
Hunt 5.0 2 1 0 4 6 0 0.47
The Yanks come to the Dome in 3 weeks
oh, I thought we were done with them. Guess not.
nice play Casilla
Shawn,
“The Yanks come to the Dome in 3 weeks.”
I hope the Twins are on the road when that happens.
At least we’ll get a webgem out of tonight… can that be another moral victory?
Web Gem by Casilla
Hahahaha Sane…
Man I always forget but whenever we play the yanks I remember how much I can’t stand them.
Sam Mele?
Not that it’s important, but the Yankees scored 18 runs as recently as July 2nd, and scored 10 or more three times in June.
Billy Martin has a 4-2 record for the Twins at Yankee Stadium
At least we’ll get a webgem out of tonight… can that be another moral victory?
Sure. It can be Moral Victory #3.1
I should have guessed it was someone who wasn’t there very long.
Sorry USAFChief,
The Yes announcers said that I must have misheard them…
apologies
Well…
Who was the idiot and the bandwagon fan for suggesting yesterday that the Twins would get swept by the Yankees? Why that was me. Aren’t I the big idiot for suggesting that the Twins have a mental block when it comes to playing in Yankee stadium, supporting that observation with their record inside that park, and reinforcing it with Dick Bremer saying tonight that even dumbass Gardenhire tells his players before they play the Yankees that they “have to play a perfect game.” Why!??! Why are the Yanks any different from any other team??? The Royals swept them at Yankee Stadium for god’s sake! The Twins stumble all over themselves and basically look like the Keystone cops every time they step on that field. They want to play intimidated, then dress them in pampers tomorrow night or just forfeit the game now and save themselves the embarassment.
Way to keep putting Gomez in leadoff Gardenhire. You think he’ll ever hit a ball out of the infield again? In the meantime, we’ll enjoy watching him tug on his crotch in new and “exciting” ways after every pitch. Geezus kid, you’re on television!
Fresh young pitcher… let’s crush his spirits a little. Just for fun.
Hang on, Brian, how’s this?
Oh almighty, wise sage of baseball knowledge, Brian! Please educate us on what will happen in the future and how the Twins should win!
Better idea, let’s start an online petition to get Brian a management seat.
Funny how in spite of this bad game, we’re all making pleasant conversation to a certain degree, and then we have someone come parading in here, shouting to the high Heavens “I TOLD YOU THE TWINS WOULD GET SWEPT!!!” before Game 1 is even over.
I disagree with plenty of people on these blogs, but I try to be respectful in doing so and recognize everyone’s different opinions and predictions.
Will we lose this one? Sure. But take your soap box and infinite wisdom somewhere else, pal.
This is sickening.
Sorry (to be clear) the last half inning was sickening
My prediction:
The Twins will un-shit their pants and win tomorrow.
Or maybe on Wednesday.
LaTroy warming up….
Let’s hope we did the same things to the Yankees we did to the Tigers when they blew us out… maybe they’re too tired to score any runs tomorrow now.
i am watching south park, they have a favorable matchup tomorrow and the Sox are losing…..3-1
Been away for a while but, if it makes any difference, TX leads the Chisox in the 6th, 3-1
LaTroy there against the Twins will be fun to see
Here is something to sing your teeth in:
Ponson will be 6-1 this year. Last year while with the Twins he was awful. Do you think that ‘Andy’ is not quite the incredible pitching coach he is rumored to be?
To be fair to Anderson, I just think Ponson wasn’t ready to come back. His fastball velocity was down and he was about 20 pounds heavier on the Twins. His sinker wasn’t moving and his location was off.
I think mechanically, he just wasn’t back yet. Plus, he had a mullet with us.
We never stood a chance.
Can’t put Ponson on Andy
he was terrible at the end in Baltimore
terrible with the grest Dave Duncan
terrible with the Yanks in 06
“Do you think that ‘Andy’ is not quite the incredible pitching coach he is rumored to be?”
Sometimes a coach doesn’t have the key to open every vault.
I apologize for the metaphor.
Mr thrylos, (8:57) You may have a point there.
Steve,
I get you, but I don’t buy the weight argument (see Boof vs. CC)
might be the mullet thought (never tought of that)
Maybe Ponson didn’t drink enough when he played for the Twinkies?
hate to nag, but…
why waste Guerrier and not put Bass in at this point?
Play me a violin while you’re doing your weep routine, Steven! Did I insult your boy Carlos a little too much? So sorry. But then again I’m not the embarassing myself telling everyone what a guaranteed superstar he’s going to be because I actually watch him play. Maybe you actually should trying blogging three days in a row instead of disappearing months at a time — returning only when the ‘W’s start piling up — before telling people who have been here the entire time to leave, you condescending prick! Oh, by the way Steven from crack-alley, Minnesota… you were the guy that was preaching all last year that the “Rondenator” (Rondell White) but only needed a chance to play every day, correct? What a mutt! Keep dazzling us with YOUR baseball knowledge!
Hey Brain, Give it a rest, Twit!
That’s not very polite!
Hey Daniel, please tell us some more fasicinating stories about Jerry Kooseman and how you used to bounce a young Jesse Orosco off your lap when you played Santa under FDR’s New Deal. And afterwards, you can bring your buffalo nickel collection on over and we’ll listen to Johnny Mathis records together, OK?
Brian,
Either pull your head out of your ass, or get a glass belly-button so you can see your keyboard when you type.
Hey Brian, For the record, I don’t know you nor care to. You seem to lose your poise at the end of games. Why is only a guess. Your points didn’t require denigrative terms. And by the way, I’m sixty, own a company, have been semi-retired for 15 years, have only attended about 800 major league games and am thrilled as hell that I never had to sit next to you!
I’m not that down about the show they put on tonight… I went into this hoping for one win. But I have to admit that I wanted to see some of that spunk and grit we’ve seen almost everywhere they’ve gone this year (almost everywhere)
Tonight felt like walking to some junkyard and, when you approach, the pit bull rolls on his back and offers his stomach to be scratched. Somebody on this team needed to get pissed and do something to show they aren’t going to be pushed around. Pitch inside and hit someone (so what if Boof gets tossed), slide hard into second, throw the ball at the runner’s head as he heads to second, something. They played like ballet dancers tonight.
I don’t mind if they get swept in their personal hell hole, but, damn it, play mean and angry. I don’t think Gladden, Puckett, Oliva would have gone into the “shrine” like lambs.
Maybe we need someone with Jack Morris’ demeanor as an acquisition to show the kids that it is, sometimes, ok to stand up to the bully and push back.
I honestly think Gardy is going to read them a minor riot act tonight/tomorrow…I expect a more angry, aggressive team tomorrow. Even if they get rolled again.
La Velle….you have to grill Gardy on batting Go-go lead off.
Not saying it would’ve made a difference…but he was an inning killer pretty much every time he stepped to the plate.
1. I disappeared when I went and finished up my senior year of college. Sorry Brian. Guess I need to get my priorities straight, eh?
2. Gomez will be a solid player, but I don’t think my post even mentioned Gomez. In fact, I think all I said the other day was that we have the unpleasant misfortune of watching Gomez go through the same struggles Span had in AAA. Unfortunately, we get to watch them happen in a Twins jersey rather than see them on paper through Minor League stats.
3. I referred to Rondell White as the “Rondominator” as a joke, and frequently called for some “Rondomination,” yes. I still do. I also called him the “Rondo-cop,” “Rond-ELL NINO,” and the “U.S.S. Rondell.” I advocated Kubel getting to play every day though. At a rough time for the Twins (there were plenty in 2007), there may have even been a time when I said to let Rondell play if he was healthy, but as for being a serious supporter who thought Rondell White could save this team - no. I liked Rondell White as a person, and felt bad for his struggles, but I didn’t want to see his bat in the lineup.
4. Crack-alley, Minnesota? Really? Making your argument look strong I see.
5. “Condescending prick” according to who? You, or the other people on these blogs who I talk to and joke with in a respectful way?
Look in the mirror before you use words like that to describe someone? What crawled up your ass today, honestly? Man.
Jon, could you please be more specific, please? What is it again I’m supposed to pull my head out of my ass regarding? Was it the fact that I said the Twins were in danger of getting swept by the Yankees YESTERDAY because they play intimidated and was jumped on by people like yourself for being an “idiot?” Is that it? Because if it is, um, did you see the score tonight by chance?
Perkins has some redass in him Willie, maybe he can shut em down wednesday… if slow can’t tomorrow
Brian,
Yes, picking the Twins to lose in Yankee Stadium is proof to yourself that you know more than nothing about baseball.
Miss Cleo has picked all the games correctly so far, but she knows a hell of a lot more than you do!
Daniel1966,
“Your points didn’t require denigrative terms.” In the sixty years and 800 ballgames you’ve seen (so, you’ve spent approximately $800,000 on basball tickets in your lifetime, huh?) did you ever learn the definition of hypocrisy?
Look at your 9:12 post:
“Hey Brain, Give it a rest, Twit!”
Who the hell was talking to you anyway, Mr. Howell? You jump me, I respond, I’m the bad guy. Wow, you ought to run Obama’s campaign!
I’m gonna go out on a limb and say that 50 years ago, baseball tickets didn’t cost $100.
Hell, you can get Twins tickets for $7 right now. Where does the $800,000 number come from? Interesting.
“Brian,
Yes, picking the Twins to lose in Yankee Stadium is proof to yourself that you know more than nothing about baseball.”
That makes a lot of sense. So you’re saying that they DO win at Yankee Stadium?
Sober up, Brian. You are becoming tedious.
I think he’s pointing out that since the Twins are 3-16 in the last 6 years, and you picked them to lose, it’s really not a massive declaration of your baseball knowledge.
Just a hunch, friend.
i have never paid 100 bucks for any game i have attended. Although i guess i have gotten 200+ dollar tickets once
3-16 sure
1-1 when i attend
1-2 if ya count playoffs 
You’re benched from playoff games, in that case, Shawn.
at least ones in Yankees stadium
Civility lives on, Steve and Shawn. Shawn, are you going to the Big Apple on Wednesday? If so, got your sign ready?
i don’t think so bro…. i might still go to Cleveland this weekend
Brian, (or anyone else)
Here is a small test of your baseball knowledge.
Runners on 2B and 3B.
One out.
Fly ball to the OF.
Runner at 3B tags up and scores.
However the runner at 2B fails to tag up and is doubled off 2B for the 3rd out AFTER the runner at 3B has crossed the plate.
Does the run count?
The first correct answer has some baseball knowledge.
Great venue, the Jake! Can’t bring myself to call it Pro… See, I told you I couldn’t. CLE, contrary to some, is a nice city with really nice people. And my friend, Mr. Brian, you and I at least agree on one thing…politics. Remember, I own a company. ‘Nuf Said!
Like I said, House of Horrors.
the run counts
sane,
of course the run counts…
“Look in the mirror before you use words like that to describe someone? What crawled up your ass today, honestly?” You did! At 8:41 tonight, and yesterday (will have to go back and find it)! Matter of fact, every freakin’ time I post something you come back with some snide, pejorative remark!
“ ‘Condescending prick’ according to who? You, or the other people on these blogs who I talk to and joke with in a respectful way?” How about yourself?? Check out your post at 5:28. “Football…” has been on here forever and like Romer usually has something witty to say or initiate conversation about. You jump all over him and then turn around yourself and say, “That post sounds kinda snobby, reading it over.” Don’t see Snepps or Craig or T or Nora or any of the other regulars doing it, do you? So, is that what you call “respectful?”
As for your suggestion that you’ve always considered Gomez just a “solid” player… hang on, will be back.
Mr. sane, At my age, I don’t need more things to keep me awake. So..thank you NO.
Shawn is the winner.
The run counts because the requirement to retouch a base after a flyball is NOT a FORCE PLAY!
Your prize money will be mailed to you if you give me your SSN and bank account number.
KIDDING!!!!!
PLEASE DON’T DO IT!!!!!!!
KIDDING!!!!!!!!
Whities lose
“I think he’s pointing out that since the Twins are 3-16 in the last 6 years, and you picked them to lose, it’s really not a massive declaration of your baseball knowledge.”
Oh, so the people who picked them TO WIN would be smarter then and ought to be granted the luxury to berate those whom chose the obvious?
Even more importantly,
Texas is beating the White Sox 6-1 with 2 outs in the bottom of the 9th…
like that British lottery that i won. Still waiting on that one.
Mr. Shawn, Believe me, it’s OK to share the info requested by Mr. sane. You can trust us. After all, we’re all FRIENDS. YUP!
How is picking the winner of a baseball game related to intelligence or knowledge of baseball?
hmmmm, now that ya put it that way
I never said I “always” referred to Gomez. In fact, I was irate when they traded for Gomez, there’s no need to bring it back. I freely admit to it. But I was also caught up in the concept that we could’ve had Ellsbury or Melky, and I admittedly didn’t know much about Gomez.
I’ve seen Gomez play now, and I’ve changed my mind on him. I think I’m allowed that right. His speed is outrageous, and watching him swing, you can tell he’s going to develop power. He covers a tremendous amount of ground in the OF and has a very strong arm.
I hated the Gomez trade at first. I said Gomez would never be a legitimate leadoff hitter, and said Bill Smith dropped the ball on the trade. Six months later, I have a different opinion.
I jumped on Football a little, and then apologized right after. I was referring to my own post saying it sounded bad, and apologized.
If you’re really this dedicated to trying to make me look bad on a Star Tribune blog, you can dig up whatever posts you’d like. Go dig one up where I was in a bad mood and called someone an idiot or something, if there is one. Who knows? There might be.
My point is that I always make an effort to be respectful, and posts like yours shouldn’t be tolerated.
You’ve spent the last hour digging up my old posts to try to make me look bad. You think that’s something to be proud of?
I don’t dedicate my life to these blogs, Brian. I’m glad I don’t. I come here during Twins games when I’m not watching them with friends or at the game itself, in order to comment and talk about the game with other fans. I’m a more casual poster, so no, I don’t know the names of everyone and all the regulars, nor do I know their tendencies. I do know that I make an effort to treat them with respect though, and apparently that’s more than you can say.
Honestly, I’m most likely going to ignore the remainder of your comments for the night. I don’t feel like I need to defend my image to anyone here, let alone someone who’s apparently going out of his way to try (and the keyword is: “try,” and by no means are you succeeding) make a complete stranger feel bad, inferior, or whatever it is you’re shooting for. Have a good night.
I’ll bet old Ozzie is a real joy to be around tonight!
referred to Gomez as solid****
In the first line of my most recent novel.
Anyone wanna bet on how big Jose Guillen’s tantrum will be after THIS loss?
http://ww3.startribune.com/blogs/neal/2008/07/20/sunday-evening-in-the-big-apple/#comments
Steve from Fridley says:
July 20th, 2008 at 9:44 pm
“All this gloom and doom… didn’t the Twins just beat Jake Peavy and Brandon Webb in consecutive games earlier this year? And here we’ve got people worried about Ponson, Rasner, and Moose? I agree, the Yanks are a tough team, but I’m no more worried about them than I was the Rangers. Ponson’s last outing against us was a fluke. The Twins will remind him how bad he is.”
At 8:41 tonight:
“Oh almighty, wise sage of baseball knowledge, Brian! Please educate us on what will happen in the future and how the Twins should win!”
I got a feeling Sir Sidney is still suffering from amnesia, what do you think Obi Wan.
I think I was being optimistic about us facing a historically bad pitcher and I was wrong.
The thing is, unlike you, if I’d made a prediction that was right, I wouldn’t storm around like a 9-year-old on a power trip and tell people I was right and they were wrong. You’re free, by the way, to look for a post where I’ve done that, and use it as a reference to prove me wrong. I don’t know that one exists, but you can look for it. I’m sure everyone here would hate me then if you dead. Heavens no.
That having been said, I’m gonna go watch a little TV and head to bed in a bit. Gotta be up at 5:45 for work in the morning. Night all.
Hey all, Rememer Jamie Wright, that RH TX relief pitcher with a 4.4 era? He struck out Thome, Konerko and Swisher on about 13 pitches to end the game tonight. There’s no quit in Ozzie’s pale hose. Ain’t life sweet!
“My point is that I always make an effort to be respectful, and posts like yours shouldn’t be tolerated.”
Could you please point out to me where in my 8:37 post I even addressed you?!!? I’m not even addressing ANYONE specifically! And yet, at 8:41 you write, “Oh almighty, wise sage of baseball knowledge, Brian! Please educate us….take your soap box and infinite wisdom somewhere else, pal.” Is that what YOU consider respectful… yes or no? And notice also in that post: “…but I try to be respectful in doing so and recognize everyone’s different opinions and predictions.” But, now, you say, “…posts like yours shouldn’t be tolerated.” Unbelievable. And by the way, Steve, this is a Star Tribune blog, not the Twinkie Pravda… posts like mine and everyone else’s on here ought to be “tolerated.” It’s called the First Amendment, Kaiser.
Dammit, here come the Tigers!
Ponson usually beats the Twins more times than not. So last night doesn’t supprise me except maybe Blackburn not pitching well. BUT every pitcher has bad outings and his ERA is still below 4.
I agree that Gomez needs to be moved down in the order! He doesn’t have good ABs especially for the lead off guy. Span or Casillia is who should be there in my opinion. Span would be my choice why mess with the lineup too much? Just swap the two.
Gardy hasn’t had a problem moving people in the past because of so called “Confidence issues”. If moving Gomez is going to destroy his confidence he needs help in that department because this is the MLB not Legion ball. A move should be expected on his part at this point, or learn to have good ABs instead of hacking away and getting out on 1-3 pitches
Wow…looks like somebody fell off the wagon during tonight’s game. Perhaps they can consult Ponson and get some tips on how to right the ship.
PS: “posts like mine and everyone else’s on here ought to be “tolerated.” It’s called the First Amendment, Kaiser.”
Hate to break it to you, but on a forum/blog such as this…you only have as much right as the owners give you. The Strib blogs are a privately owned and operated business. If you’re posting profane language and slinging offensive comments they can boot you out of here faster than you can type “ACLU”.
Also, if you have to resort to calling somebody a Nazi, you’ve lost. “Reducto ad nazism” as its often called.
But back on the subject of baseball…
Getting beat by Ponson at least twice this season has stung, because you gotta wonder where in God’s name this guy was when the Twins had him on the roster last season.
Maybe it was getting dumped from the Twins that served as a wake up call? Maybe he just is the kinda guy that didn’t want to be in Minnesota?
Whatever the case, the Twins staff got rocked by the Yankees. Maybe next year in the new park there won’t be that “Mystique” since everything will be new to everybody. (Hard to overwhelemd by history when there isn’t any)
Going into the series, I pegged three types of games.
1) Twins win comfortably.
2) Twins get blown out.
3) Nailbiter that can go either way.
It seems to be the trend when the Twins go to Yankee Stadium. (More often than not the nailbiter goes the Yanks way.
They got the pounding out of the way. I just hope the win comes tonight so they can play the nailbiter for a rubber-game vs. to avoid the sweep. (For moral purposes)
On the plus side, four moral victories last night.
1) Shut out the Yanks in at least one inning.
2) Got at least another run after being down 100-2.
3) Made the Yankees go to the bullpen.
4) Turned a Web Gem (well, that was after the fact victory)
Hopefully whatever butterflies they had last night are gone now. And hopefully Morneau’s not feeling any side effects of the blow to his hand on Sunday.
I don’t think the Twins fans or Gardenhire gets it when it comes to Nick Punto. He is a simple utility player who Gardenhire has taken a fondness for. Gardenhire puts Punto in the lineup without good reason. He replaces better players with Punto and the result is that the Twins lose more games. Thats the bottom line. Gardenhire will never figure out the cause and effect of the needless platooning.
I think the question at this point should not be “should gomez lead off”, but whether or not he should be on the major league roster at all, what with the twins contending and all. When Cuddyer’s back, let him go to AAA and refine his game. If Cuddyer’s out for a while yet, send down Gomez and bring up Macdonald. He needs it. If changing the batting order will hurt his confidence, imagine what going 5 for 100 will do. sending him down might humble him just enough, while still giving him the chance to prove himself on an everyday basis.
Dammit, here come the Tigers!
The Tigers are playing the Royals while the Twins are playing the Yankees. I’d expect the Tigers to maybe get a game or two closer in that time.
It’s like when Chicago went on their 7-game “tear” in which they swept the Royals and a then floundering Twins lineup. They then went and got swept by the Tigers and nearly swept by the Rockies.
The Twins have played the Tigers better than they’ve played the Sox (at least recently). I’m not as much worried about holding off the Tigers as I am catching the Sox.
That’s a HUGE four game series. It’d be nice for the Twins to walk out of there with some kind of division lead.
Thanks T for the completely useless information once again. Thank God we all have someone like you who can write a novel on a dime’s notice about anything that you can pull out your ass at any given moment.
