Thoughts on the…ahem….trade…..
Posted on August 1st, 2008 – 10:24 PMBy La Velle
Livan Hernandez for Francisco Liriano.
Craig Monroe for Randy Ruiz.
After thinking about it for awhile, I’m thinking: Why not?
The Twins had to get Liriano up here. He was one of their 12 best pitchers. And with Hernandez struggling lately, a path to the rotation opened up for the man nicknamed Franchise.
I just want to warn everyone that his may not be the same Liriano who was a force in 2006. If you’re thinking he’s going to roll out another 12-3, 2.16 run, think again. There was one outing in Rochester in which he lit up the gun. He threw 91-93 in most of the other starts. All I’m saying is, lower the expectations a little.
I didn’t see the Ruiz move coming, but it’s not a bad gamble. Monroe was batting .202 with 8 homers and 22 RBI and just wasn’t hitting lefties like the Twins needed. In the past week, I began to wonder if Monroe would be cut when Michael Cuddyer finally got healthy.
For now, give Ruiz a chance. His .320-17-68 at Rochester offers hope he can do more against lefties than Monroe did. Don’t expect him to play any first base. I watched him in spring training, and it wasn’t pretty.
As much as some of you would like to see Ruiz remain here the rest of the season, I’m guessing he’s the one to go when Cuddyer get healthy. That gives the Twins the DH spot to play with as they try to get Cuddyer, Denard Span, Carlos Gomez and Delmon Young in the lineup. Once again, Cuddy has to get healthy first, and there’s always a chance someone else breaks down by then.
It’s good to see the Twins finally address these issues. And while we can rip them all we want for signing these players in the first place, at least they are willing to eat salary and take the hit when they didn’t work out.
99 Responses to "Thoughts on the…ahem….trade….."
Can they stop signing these players who were horrible before they were even signed? Stop hoping they are suddenly going to transform back to quality players. It has yet to work!
youre absolutely right about liriano- i just really think they may have been better cashing in on his past and filling such a great need at 3b to protect morneau 7 days a week and make a play for another #3-4 starter elsewhere or take a chance on someone in the minors as theres many pitching avenues to take, but its hard to find 3b coverage like beltre…..like i said all day …oh well. lets see what happens. but i still side with souhan on this one bigtime
len3 what was your feeling about souhans article on liriano
You don’t let Liriano go until you see what he has up in the majors imo. But you can bet no matter had happened their would be whining in the blog. LOL
“That gives the Twins the DH spot to play with as they try to get Cuddyer, Denard Span, Carlos Gomez and Delmon Young in the lineup.”
What about Kubel? He has been batting .294 since June 1. And he is arguably our third best hitter this year
what a rip that USC is not rated number 1 in the pre season poll and Georgia is
I side with Souhan on the thought of cashing in high. I disagree with him bagging on Liriano like he is a piece of crap.
Shawn, exactly my point,,, I do think the Twins FO needs to be willing to give up some talent to get some talent,,, but not Liriano,,,, actually, any of the other young pitchers
congrats to Ruiz for his first career hit and run!
I could see the Cuddyer/finger thing drag on until September when rosters expand.
Regardless, looking ahead, next year will be interesting with Cuddyer, Gomez, Kubel, Span and Young fighting for 4 starting spots.
Just hope Liriano can be on par with the other youngsters. I really didn’t see how any trade would have significantly helped the Twins run.
What I like about the Ruiz move is that it gives more incentive to those toiling in the farm system, that they too could get a chance.
La Velle,
Did you hear about the Tom Shearn signing? He takes the place of Liriano in Rochester. Do you know anything more about him? I know he made six starts for the Reds last year.
No love for Kubel? He’s been the only guy driving in runs after Mauer and Morneau.
Kubel really deserves more playing time.
the twins are such a great organization that they are relivant in august. b4 the season would anyone want to debate that? we’d all say no. except for bill smith, gardy, & anderson.
LEN3 (and all),
When Cuddyer comes back, what are the odds that the Twins possibly have him play 2B and move Punto to SS rather than keeping Everett on the field and having to sit Gomez or Span down? It’s not ideal, and Gardy probably will point to Cuddy’s bat struggles the last time they moved him around between 2nd and 3rd, but with Casilla out, I’d much rather see a lineup with all of our outfielders in it, and Everett on the bench as a late inning defensive replacement.
Span - RF
Punto - SS
Mauer - C
Morneau - 1B
Cuddyer - 2B
Kubel - DH
Young - LF
Harris/Buscher - 3B
Gomez - CF
Bench:
Everett (late inning defensive replacement at SS, Punto to 2B)
Harris/Buscher (flexibility in the infield, spot starts)
Lamb (Lamb)
Redmond (spot catcher, nudity)
Any chance Gardy will put Cuddy at 2B even some of the time to keep all of his bats on the field?
the twins are such a great organization that they are relivant in august. b4 the season would anyone want to debate that? we’d all say no. except for bill smith, gardy, & anderson.
“great need at 3b to protect morneau 7 days a week”
ok mj1, we get it. you keep saying the same thing over and over and over and over. and you’re redundant.
seriously, how has Morneau been hitting? Are his numbers down compared to last year? He must be an incredible batter hitting pitches where the opposing pitcher is pitching around him or what you state is simply incorrect. EITHER way he’s producing. Does that mean he doesn’t need protection? No. But if you’re an opposing manager in a game situation who do you pitch to: Morneau or Beltre???? You STILL would pitch around Morneau. You are COMPLETELY overrating lineup protection.
Do you remember John Smiley? We went for it in 1992. Game up several good prospects to get him. Did it make a difference? NO!!!! We still didn’t make the playoffs this year. Lesson? Going for it doesn’t always mean playoffs.
And here is a report from John Stark on the Seattle Mariners:
“But they angered teams they spoke to with what were widely viewed as outrageous demands. And the bottom line is that this deadline represented a lost renovation opportunity in the middle of an already-lost season. And how many lost opportunities can clubs like this afford?”
Other teams!! Plural. The Mariners were not trading players unless they could fleece the other team like they got fleeced this offseason.
I AM GLAD THEY DIDN’T FLEECED AND OVERPAY FOR A PLAYER THEY’LL HAVE FOR 1.5 years AND PAY 12 MILLION A YEAR!!!!
Now get over it and quit with the same dribble.
Captain America…
Boof Bonser, and Jair Fernandez to the Pirates for Grabow (lefty reliever), and an A ball reliever.
Ryan Mullins for Buddy Carlysle would have helped. (bass designated for Assignment)
I think that there were a lot of trade possibilities that didn’t happen because Billy Bob Smith can’t handle his position.
Which tells you the mariners front office does not think like the twins. If you remember at the beginning of the year they (seattle) were “going for this year.” I’m glad the twins look out for our future. Conservitive is good. They draft for a purpose 3-4 years from now. I grew up in the 90’s,I’d much rather see this. They have issues, but they live off the drafts & such ’cause they’re smart.
Cuddy will not play an infield position unless an in-game emergency. It will never happen. Please people, quit posting ridiculous ideas putting Cuddy at 2nd or 3rd.
Liriano may or may not come back and be a productive pitcher. No doubt the jury is still out. Trade him? I’m personally against it. He’s only been pitching for about 4 months after surgery. I would not give up on him. But you better be right about him not coming back, if he pitches even at a modest level compared to 2006, say 3.50 ERA with a K/9 of 7.00 and K/BB rate of 3.0 then trading him is a HUGE mistake. I’m not ready to do that. The Twins organization is watching him very very closely. I’m sure they have a better idea of whether he comes back than some idiot Star Trib writer or a couple random bloggers.
AND to suggest trading Young is without a doubt the biggest, most completely, idiotic suggestion that has ever appeared in the sports section. Unless you count Craig suggestion of trading Morneau. You don’t trade a 22 year old with his potential 4 months into his stay. You don’t.
Ok I’m done for the night.
Go Twins!!!!
I am very happy for the Twins, and for Brian Buscher that we didn’t trade for Beltre. For the kind of money that Beltre will be making he is not worth dirupting the chemistry of this team.
Gosh, JP. Had I known you were still up, I wouldn’t have asked everyone for their opinion, I would have only asked you. Thanks for weighing in on the ridiculous idea.
However, if anyone else wants to chime in, JP went to bed now, so you have at least a few hours to comment before he wakes up and starts another day at his job as President of I Know What’s Best, Inc.
Again, it’s not ideal, and I certainly wouldn’t advocate the concept for an entire season. But Casilla is out for who knows how long. Do you want Everett (a guy who the Twins actually told to go away before knowing the extent of Casilla’s injury) and his .175 bat in the lineup daily when there is the possibility that Cuddy COULD play 2B?
If you’d rather not see that, I’m cool with that opinion. I’m just curious. Personally, I don’t think it’s all that ridiculous, in spite of what JP believes.
No offense JP. Except the part about your job as President of IKWB, Inc. You can take offense there. I’ll allow that.
Sincerely,
ScottZ
President, I Know What’s Offensive, Inc.
JP,
I am glad I didn’t read all of that stuff.
Trading Young would be a DEATH NAIL for Billy Bob Smith our GM. It would be him admitting that he hasn’t got a clue about what it is that he is doing as a GM… so I agree with you under no circumstances would the Twins trade Young.
ScottZ.
Trading Young - Never going to happen this years, or next.
Cuddyer playing middle infield for this team outside of a 12+ inning game or due to a major injury in a game… buy a lottery ticket.
Cuddyer playing 3rd base for the Twins a bit more likely than middle infield, but I’d still bet the lottery because Gardenhire is a stubborn man. Look how long he kept Gomez in the leadoff spot even after Span was out hitting him 10 to 1, and drawing walks! Look at how Gardenhire is about as predictable as can be with all of his telegraphed moves. Not too likely. Gardenhire hated Cuddyer as a 3rd baseman… belittled him, and shattered Cuddy’s confidence.
I like JP, but if there is an INWO Inc… you are speaking to it’s CEO right now…
“Do you want Everett…. and his .175 bat in the lineup daily when there is the possibility that Cuddy COULD play 2B?”
IMO there is a greater possibility that Everett could hit .270 and play Gold Glove SS than there is that Cuddyer could play 2B without being the WORST middle infielder in MLB.
And except for 2006, Cuddyer hasn’t hit well enough to compensate for what we already know would be absolutely awful defensive 2B.
I have no problem telling someone exactly what I think, and how I feel, and I don’t spare feelings… I try not to make direct comments about anything other than the baseball players, coaches, managment, and the ownership… but dude you seriously need to rethink what’s going on here because your ideas have no shot.
Sane…
AMEN!
ScottZ,
Your suggestion is okay, about Cuddy at 2B, but I think those days are over. People were relieved when he didn’t get hurt when he played there (2005?). He doesn’t have the quick feet to play the position.
I think he could take some infield practice at 3B and 1B. He could play 3B, in an extreme pinch, and he can play
1B, if he is needed there.
Cuddy is not leaving rf - that is where the best arm is at. Yes, Liriono is not a star in ‘08 and Cuddy is not Griiffey, but for god’s sake can’t we be ready to go. It’s august and we’re in it!!! That is what it’s about.
There is nothing wrong with advancing the idea of trading Delmon Young, no matter what JP says.
If Young would bring a good return in the off-season, make the trade. Span, Gomez and Cuddyer could make up an excellent OF in 2009.
If a trade of Young could bring in a highly rated young SS, do the deal. Why not help the team? The Twins are now top heavy in outfielders.
They need both Gomez and Span to cover CF and backup CF. Cuddy would be tough to trade because of his too rich contract. Kubel fits the DH spot and likes it.
Young would actually be the best choice for an off-season trade.
Craig…
Name the SS that the Twins could get, or a young stud 3rd baseman, or 2nd baseman…
I just can’t think of any teams that would have a young SS, 2nd, or 3rd baseman that would trade for a Singles hitter that can’t walk, has a terrible glove, and more baggage than Manny Ramierez.
You also have to realize that trading him in the offseason unless they got a STEAL of a deal… a genuine steal… maybe Michael Young, and German Duran from the Rangers for him, or Gordon from the Royals for him… would make Bill Smith look like an utter fool for trading Garza in the first place (which isn’t that far from the truth…)
So far every single move that Bill Smith has made in his tenure has turned to a fecal resemblance of Kevin McHale.
If there is one of those guys that is expendable, and has trade value it would be Kubel (though I want to keep Kubel).
He’s reletively young, just starting arbitration so reletively cheap… solid power, his eye at the plate has improved… his knees are healthy so he could play the OF, or DH.
Why exactly would be discussing moving Cuddy over to third be considered ridiculous? Seems that to keep a good bat(Cuddy and Span) in the lineup wouldn’t be a bad thing.
Last I checked, Cuddy is going to be sent on a rehab assignment. That would be a very, very good time to get him time at third, if they were going to do it at all this year. Nothing wrong with getting him some live game action at the hot corner while on rehab.
Makes me think though, with the current surplus of good outfielders, one of them is either going to be trade bait this winter for a good 3rd. baseman, or one of them is going to be converted. Obviously, Cuddy had issues there before, but, honestly, is that any reason not to give it a second chance? The guy is a major-leaguer now, and I am pretty sure he wouldn’t press like he was when he was replacing Koskie.
Ridiculous, no
Liriano’s devastating slider is more important than a few extra mph on his heater. Hopefully the young man has learned a bit more about pitching in his stint at AAA.
100% healthy by September 10th (and steaming into the playoffs if we are lucky)
1. Span RF
2. Casilla 2B
3. Mauer CA
4. Morneau 1B
5. Young LF
6. Kubel/Cuddyer DH
7. Buscher 3B
8. Tolbert SS
9. Gomez CF
Bench:
Punto great glove, solid enough base runner for late inning replacement
Redmond arguably the best backup catcher in baseball
Ruiz excellent Right handed power
Lamb a lefty with some pop that can play a little 1st, 3rd, and 2nd I’m told
Harris - his bat it soming around, and I like his versatility, and his ability to pinch hit if need be, but I like Tolbert’s defense, and his attitude a lot. Although if he ever dives into first again he should be Abner Luigma’d.
Ok, what’s more annoying:
a) Delmon Young swinging at the 1st pitch
b) Nick Punto’s famous head first slides into 1st base
c) Ron Gardenhire taking a starter out with a lead, and bringing in Bass or Reyes?
d) Talk of moving Cuddyer to 3rd base again with the fact that if Brian Buscher’s stats were carried out over 145 games he would have 120 RBIs, and 19 errors at 3rd base… which would be about 12 less errors than Cuddyer had when he was younger, and more mobile to play 3rd base… he’s heavier now, he’s older, he has a history with his back, now with his hand… and he’s unlikely to hit more than 15 homers a season.
e) Joe Mauer grounding into 6-4-3 DPs as a left handed hitter?
The problem, guys, is that the fools covering these stories haven’t seen Liriano pitch since he was up here in April.
I just returned from the east coast, and I saw Liriano pitch two of his last three outings (live). I watched the third start on TV. These guys (LEN & Souhan) have no idea what they’re talking about.
Here’s the REAL deal: Liriano has consistently hit 94-95 on the gun during his past three outings. He also features a wicked circle change, an improving slider, and a new pitch that looks very much like a cutter. It looks like a frisbee when he throws it, and he’s striking out righties with the pitch often. From a scout I talked to, he believes ALL FOUR pitches are “plus” pitches. Not even Johan features FOUR plus pitches.
Don’t listen to these “sports jounalists” that sit in their house looking at stats online, making crap up just to get a paycheck.
While Liriano isn’t the same guy as he was in ‘06, he is impressive–and he might be the best on the staff by the end of September; he’s improving rapidly, as he gets stronger and more used to his new, more fluid motion.
Now, is that anything to complain about?
I take offense to suggestions that I look at stats and draw assumptions. I know scouts all over the league.
One scout was at the Dome tonight who has seen Liriano recently and told me that Liriano is not the power pitcher he once was. I’m interested to see if he’s more of a pitch-ability guy now than in 2006.
And what gun was being used? Was it a Detroit gun, that adds 4 mph to everything?
Let’s see how good his stuff is and how it plays out in the majors before we draw assumptions. Only a fool would think he’s going clown opposing hitters before he gets on a major league mound.
He has certainly put up the numbers in the minors. And he had a good bullpen session on Friday. But only a fool would think he’s ready to dominate. You want to get out there with high expectations? Don’t set yourself up for a big letdown…
Maybe Cuddyer will play 2nd base. And maybe God will have a son, and he will be called Jesus. And Jesus will come play SS for the Twins and will make miracles happen and the Twins will win the World Series this year going through Boston, New York, and the Chicago Cubs.
I definetly get the “Trade Liriano now for hitting and prospects”. *But not Beltre. If you think he is some savior of this team…think again. He could explode out of nowhere being on a contending team all of the sudden and all, but his current numbers are not Great. Good. Solid. Above average. But not great. Some one said that if we had Beltre, teams would still pitch around Morneau. Yes, they would. Your not going to have Anyone who is as good as Morneau, but the idea is that when they do that, you DO have someone who can make them pay. “Well, we don’t want to pitch to Morneau, but the next guy up is dangerous too.” Right now, that’s Kubel/Young. Neither one of them gets that kind of consideration. Nor do they really deserve it.
I said this from the begining of Liriano’s injury. It’s a 50/50 chance coming back from (Joe Mays), but in Liriano’s case, he set the bar so, so high for himself that not only does he have to come back and be effective, he has to completely dominate. He might come back and be pretty to really good, but it will be a let down because of what he did before. Goodbye Livan, and Thank You.
*Of course, this is all hypothetical now, seeing as the trade deadline has passed.
**Twins should have made a trade of some kind**
(This is my sig. for the rest of the season, so get used to it).
Here’s another one: The Twins should sign Bonds. Talk about protection behind Morneau. Teams would FEAR him as a hitter.
Don’t give me the “It’ll never happen” crap because I already know that.
THERE ARE SOME THINGS THAT BUG ME ABOUT
THE TWINS: 1. WHEN THEY HAVE NO INTENT TO TRADE BEFORE THE DEADLINE DON’T PUT OUT FALSE HOPE, 2. IF THERE IS NO REASON FOR POWER IN THE TWINS LINEUP WHY HAVE THEY GOTTEN CLOBBER BY THE YANKS, BOSTON, AND CHICAGO. WHERE DO THE TWINS STAND AS FAR AS HITTING INTO DOUBLEPLAYS IN LEAGUE RANKING, 3. EVEN WITH THE SPEED THE TWINS HAVE THEY HIT INTO ALOT OF DP.(IT APPEARS THAT THE TWINS RUNNING GAME IS ON THE BACK BURNER. 4. THE TWIN PITCHERS ARE RIGHT THERE IN GIVING UP HRS. I AM INTERESTED IN YOUR THOUGTS ON THE ABOVE.
BC Beneke-Pretty clever with your 12:28 and 12:33 posts last night.You say that BS will not trade Delmon for at least 2 yrs because that would deem him clueless for trading for him in the first place.You have deemed him clueless for trading Garza last winter.
The Twins will never sign Bonds. It’ll never happen.
Any general statement which proclaims XXXXXXXX will NOT (NEVER?) be traded is pure conjecture.
Hypothetically, if the Cardinals offer Albert Pujols (salary paid) even up for XXXXXXXX, we’re making that deal!
If XXXXXXXX is a pitcher, and the Padres hypothetically, offer Jake Peavy (salary paid) even up for XXXXXXXX, we’re making that deal!
Untouchables?
Yeah, right!
Now that Beltre,LaRouche and Adkins seem unavailable,does anyone think we should take a flier on Joel Guzman of the Rays? With Longoire the longterm 3b for the Rays,Guzman could be had for not much.
Lets hope the Twins are foolish enough to bring back Cuddyer into the lineup. He is over rated as an outfielder, rather clumsy, and strikes out often with runners in scoring position. He is a putz in the clutch. Cuddyer has an overall negative impact on the team. He has a mind of a little league player. After he makes a catch in the outfield, he always watches the big screen monitor to watch himself and admire how good he did. Randy Ruiz is a much better hitter and a more dangerous force in the middle of the lineup. If Cuddyer is brought back to the lineup as an outfielder, a DH, or anything else, you will see the team faulter in the stadnings.
GENO,
IMO Guzman is worth a low price, low risk investment.
Give him one or two years at Rochester while attending regular motivational seminars, he could possibly become something special.
Michael Cuddyer doesn’t seem to fit into the Twins organization. He is kind of a clown and tries to get attention whenever he can. The Twins should trade him. They know they made a serious mistake by signing him to a long term contract. He is a mediocre player at best. Gomez, Span and Young make the best outfield arrangement. Cuddyer would only be useful as a right hande DH, but he is very weak when it comes to hitting in the clutch. It is too bad the Twins are stuck with the bum.
I think the Twins should trade Bonser, Bass, Punto and Cuddyer for a solid relief pitcher to help them down the stretch. Hopefully, they will get something for them before they flop big time and become totally worthless.
Cuddyer is not much good except for magic tricks he does to get attention in the clubhouse. He is an egotest with somewhat of a childish mind. The guy stumbles and falls down alot for a professional athlete. His mental errors have been costly to the Twins and has held them back in the standing. It seems like every time you watch him bat with runners in scoring position, he strikes out. Cuddyer is not a team player, he only want to fullfill his own ego. The Twins would have traded him before the trade deadline, but no teams wanted him. Cuddyer is a bumbler. Span is much better than the Cuddyer.
Who expects a 2.16 ERA? I’m just hoping it’s better than Livan’s. I’m hoping for Baker or Blackburn type numbers. I’ll take that in a heartbeat.
They do have some extra talent in the OF but here’s how the Twins are going to play it out…
Kubel: DH vs. RH (Pinch Hitter)
Ruiz: DH vx. LH (Pinch Hitter)
Span: Lead-Off: Every Day
Cuddy, Gomez, Young: Mix and Match playing the L/R match-ups and having late-game subs to get favorable match-ups. This is a good problem to have. Why do the Twins need to make any changes? It’s way better than Tyner DH’n and playing left!
It’s always interesting for me to see the emotion driven comments and roster suggestions on this blog. The Twins approach to roster moves is conservative and open to criticism especially since they just don’t have the will to make that “one big deal” that might put them over the top. However, I still think that given MLB’s financial situation, which gives big markets an advantage for making “big moves”, the Twins conservative approach serves them well. It’s an approach that applies critical thinking and calculated risks that keeps them competitive. They are way ahead of their pre-season projections which suggests to me they might “kinda know what they’re doing”.
Back to the emotion based comments and roster suggestions. BC my brother, your comments that Bill Smith is incapable of doing the job is far too premature, especially when comparing him to McHale. Time will tell, and the truth is we don’t know where he will lead this team. But by already deciding his fate, you are in the “box” if he does well. Kind of like your unrelenting “Punterrible” comments. They were/are emotion driven and time has proven that he does still provide a valid and valuable role with the Twins. For the record, I think Punto’s spot should definitely be as a backup, but I’m glad we have him now given Casilla’s injury.
La Velle,
Don’t take take umbrage at the inane babblings on your blog.
My only request to you, is that you publish the alias’ used by current Major League managers and GM’s who seem to post here regularly (BTW that is a big kudo to you that they post here). It would sure help the innocent/unknowing to understand/evaluate their bias.
Regards,
Pitching… Boof is a good insurance policy for pitching. Once again, a very good luxury. It’s just unfortunate that he doesn’t have any options left to go get himself sharp in AAA.
The Twins have 6 starters, young, cheap and w/ potential to be productive on any MLB roster. Come this off-season the Twins will be in good position to listen to offers on trades because they will have pitchers that will be MLB ready over the next year or two on the cheap. Just look what the A’s are getting in return for cheap controllable MLB pitching. The Twins don’t have to re-load like the A’s because they have enough talent to fill the gaps. The Twins do have the flexibility to get better this year or any of the next few.
This leaves the Twins in a safe position where they shouldn’t have to overpay for pitching and have deep reserves to keep them competitive for years to come. This is why the Twins are envied. Because they don’t have to pay silly money to pitchers like Santana and Silva… They’re in much better position this year than last just because they didn’t sign these guys to market level contracts. It doesn’t matter if some of their low cost options didn’t/don’t work out because what those decsions offer is orginizational flexibility. That my friends, is priceless.
Interesting opinions on Cuddyer. So, I’ll throw mine in. I hope they do the smart, but hard thing, and when Cuddyer comes back, they either send go-go down, or put him on the bench. The choice would depend on where they thought he could learn the most. This is only for this season, not any judgment on Gomez’s future.
The best OF we can put up is Young, Span, and Cuddyer. Go-go can be exciting, as he was for the first 6 weeks, but right now he needs more seasoning. Since we surprisingly find ourselves in a pennant race, that now means doing it in the bigs is hurting the team. (Again, this year only, I look forward to him being a key player in the future.)
werbellik, is right on. Smith needs to be judged as much for the moves he didn’t make (signing Silva, Hunter, Santana) as the moves he did make.
Not signing any of those players to market level deals was the best move to make. Locking up Morneau and Nathan…
Those are the moves that are going to allow them to win for years to come. Organizational flexibility.
The Twins will probably extend Mauer this off season too, if they’re thinking ahead.
I’m guessing as someone esle stated, Cuddy may not find his way back until rosters expand. Otherwise they will likely send Gomez down.
It doesn’t make sense that they cut Monroe to call up Ruiz unless they want to see what they have on their hands in a platoon RH DH? So he’s got that spot on lock-down for at least a month. Otherwise they don’t risk that move because they’d be able to call him up in September.
Notice all of the rational posts are taking place in the a.m and the ones a bit off are coming post happy hour.
You shouldn’t drink and post.
I, for one, hate to see Livan go.
Over the last couple of weeks when the Twins were making comeback upon comeback, it was Hernandez in the dugout waving a towel, first with the high five and the pat on the back.
When you look at the recent successes (sic) of Boof, Reyes, and the Bassmaster, you’d think a team leader and cheerleader with mediocre skills would be a better keep than the above noted trio, who seem to spend their lives on the bench musing about their personal showings.
Livan on the other hand, had an attitude of calm and professionalism that made him an leader and a role model for this young, talented, but un playoff tested group.
I realize financial implications galore had impact on this decision, but I will miss Hernandez and remember him as one of the unheralded heroes of this surprising and entertaining team.
La Vella…Why would you think Ruiz will be moved back to 3A when Cuddyer returns? The organization has shown a nice pattern of humilty when players are not living up to expectations…Livan, Monroe, and even Everett for a moment. Would it not make more sense to DFA Mike Lamb especially if Ruiz does hit left handed pitching over the next few weeks?
Hernandez will hook on with someone who needs a veteran to eat innings down the stretch (Tigers, Yankees, Mets, etc…). Monroe will probably land in Tampa, I believe they were interested in trading for him at the deadline. Ruiz will be the bat to go back down because he has no position on the team once Cuddy comes back. Keeping him on the 40 man roster may help for the play-offs though.
“Smith needs to be judged as much for the moves he didn’t make (not signing Silva, Hunter, Santana) as the moves he did make.”
Even the moves he did make had value.
By adding Young and Harris and giving up Bartlett, the Twins added 71 runs scored and 59 RBI which adds up to 130 runs produced. Compare that to a team total of 540 runs scored this year.
While Livan was winning 10 games, Baker, Blackburn, Slowey and Perkins learned to be Big League pitchers while watching him.
At the same, Liriano was re-configuring himself at Rochester, learning how to pitch effectively with a decreased injury risk.
Monroe filled a role temporarily that (hopefully) Randy Ruiz can now fill after learning while experiencing (his first ever) four months in AAA.
Everett is now filling a middle-infielder role until Casilla returns.
Lamb is a LH bat off the bench who has and will contribute in situations.
But then, those moves are still being blasted by the same critics who complained about “no action” on July 31.
Damned WHEN he does and damned IF he doesn’t!
Baker (7-3 3.53), Blackburn (8-6 3.56), Slowey (7-7 4.00), Perkins (8-3 4.20), Liriano looks promising, could maybe shuffle it a bit so that the two lefties aren’t back to back.
Add to Young - Harris.
Neither have missed a game due to injury.
Compare that to Cuddyer, Gomez, Casilla, Punto, Everett, Mauer, Baker, Slowey, Tolbert, etc,etc,etc.
Repeating the old line:
“All a player’s ability is worthless if he has no durABILITY”
Smith has made some solid moves. He’s taken more risk than his predcessor yet still maintained the orginizational flexibility to remain competitive long term.
Harris - .262/.321/.381
Young - .292/.334/.394
Bartlett - .252/.294/.299
Garza - 9-6 3.56 (10-10 Team record)
Call it a push.
I am pleased with the move to cut Livan and bring up Liriano. Signing Livan, Lamb, Everett, and Monroe were not good moves in the first place. That’s not hindsight. None of these guys had much upside to begin with. Monroe had one, and only one, good year. Livan’s best days were long, long behind him. Lamb had never even won a full time job. Everett never could hit. The outcome was predictable. In fact, many did predict it. That being said, at least the club is now trying to rectify the situation. Hopefully, Mr. Smith has learned his lesson.
The above comments notwithstanding, I think highly of the organization. Someone must be doing something right if this young team with all its bad free agent signings is contending for the division title. I tip my cap to the club for even being in the mix this year.
As for Cuddyer, where are all the people who lauded his 3 year deal this winter?
There’s one saving grace to August arriving. AFC Wimbledon open their season next Saturday in the Conference South (Level 6…after promotion last year). Only 3-5 years from getting back to League Football (Level 4), after the FA (Football Association) allowed Milton Keynes to steal our club).
Web Casts on Saturday mornings…Tuesday/Wednesday afternoons, and the blog/message boards concerned about the more important things in sports like: Which pub are supporters meeting up at before away games. Who wins the Golden Goal raffle, and who if anyone actually arrived home sober. Even, is Club management doing enough to secure promotion, AND if not should we vote them out at the next election.
Fan owned clubs are fun, AND 3 promotions in 6 years not bad.
A much more enjoyable way to interact with fellow supporters.
Regards,
kmack,
Harris - .262/.321/.381
Young - .292/.334/.394
Bartlett - .252/.294/.299
Add to that:
NAME RUNS RBI RUNS+RBI
Harris 44 36 80
Young 53 43 96
TOTAL 97 79 176
Bartlett 26 20 46
What is Ruiz’s natural position?
“As for Cuddyer, where are all the people who lauded his 3 year deal this winter?”
I’m going to let time determine whether signing Cuddyer long-term was a good or bad move. Mostly because of injury it does not look good now. If he hits .275 with 20 HR’s and 100 RBI’s next year, within his reach in my opinion, it looks pretty good.
“Smith has made some solid moves. He’s taken more risk than his predecessor yet still maintained the organizational flexibility to remain competitive long term.”
MC, well stated and concise! Not as wordy as some of us who blather on, myself included.
“What is Ruiz’s natural position?”
First base, but from all I’ve heard and read, it’s not very “natural”. I hope he does well, but would expect him to be the one sent down if Cuddy is back before Sept. 1.
“Harris - .262/.321/.381
Young - .292/.334/.394
Bartlett - .252/.294/.299
Garza - 9-6 3.56 (10-10 Team record)
Call it a push.”
Exactly right. Will see how it looks next year at this time, and the year after that. Then we’ll have some context on which to judge the trade as bad or good.
As far as Kubel goes.. DH him only against righties. I agree that he has some trade value. But to play him everyday would be totally absurd. Monroe in about half the ab’s had almost as many hr’s as Kubel.
NAME W-L ERA GS CG ShO BB SO
Garza 9-6 3.56 20 2 1 38 80
Blackburn 8-6 3.56 22 0 0 20 70
Perkins 8-3 4.20 16 0 0 25 50
Baker 7-3 3.53 17 0 0 21 89
Slowey 7-7 4.00 16 3 2 16 69
All about equal, so I don’t think the Twins lost anything by trading Garza.
What is Ruiz’s natural position?
Sitting.
Except when its his turn to hit.
kmack,
If we still had Garza, Liriano would have to remain at AAA until a position opened up for him.
I was talking with a friend of mine who is “a great baseball mind” in my opinion. It was before the Livan and Monroe moves and we were thinking that the Twins should release Monroe, and use Livan as the right-handed DH. We were mostly joking at the time, but it was an interesting if very brief thought.
“Sitting.
Except when its his turn to hit.”
sane, now I don’t care who ya are, that’s funny.
Sane,
True. And the team wouldn’t have signed Livan. Or they would have signed Livan and one of the other kids would still be at AAA also.
werbellik,
“that’s funny”
Thanks.
Getting a laugh was always my priority.
Just ahead of making a living.
Not very smart.
Regarding DFA Lamb:
If we can get off the hook for his 2009 salary I say OK. But I’m not opposed to bringing him to camp next year. Lamb, until this year, has been a useful part. I’m willing to chance that this was “one of those years” and that he can play a nice role in 2009. Maybe not worth the price but those dollars are already spent.
“Getting a laugh was always my priority.
Just ahead of making a living.
Not very smart.”
I hear you. I’m past the half century mark, but still tell the neighbor kids that I’m still the biggest kid on the block. I’m hoping I’ll figure out what I want to be when I grow up pretty soon now.I’m ruling out fireman now, but pro golfer still has possibilities if I can just shave 10-15 strokes off my game (attempt at humor).
werbellik,
I shave 10-15 strokes off my golf game every OTHER time I play.
But golf relaxes me.
Except when I punch my car in the golf course parking lot after a round.
When Cuddyer comes back…
Gomez sits. Span to center and leading off. Cuddyer back in right, Gomez is the 5th outfielder… Speed to burn, but can’t hit.
Well, Gomez is 7-14 since his “demotion” to the 9-hole and 9-29 .310 over his last 10 games.
Is Gardy going to miss tonight than.
NAME Gms ABs RS HIT 2B 3B HR RBI AVG
0001 099 371 63 096 12 04 05 028 .259
0002 101 417 57 107 17 04 05 035 .257
Player 0001 OBP/SLG/OPS = .324/.353/.677
Player 0001 OBP/SLG/OPS = .289/.353/.642
Very, very close, yet Player 0001 was way more hyped this spring.
If you guessed Jacoby Ellsbury(0001) & Carlos Gomez(0002) you are correct.
“When Cuddyer comes back…
Gomez sits. Span to center and leading off. Cuddyer back in right, Gomez is the 5th outfielder… Speed to burn, but can’t hit.”
Treb, I think Gomez could become part of a 4 outfielder rotation if all stay healthy and productive. I guess your counting Kubel as an outfielder if you consider Gomez the 5th, but I see Kuble as the DH and easily the 5th outfielder. Gomez can/will hit and I’m hoping his recent numbers become more the norm.
“…I think highly of the organization.”
Hi Boneyard; how have you been?
I can’t be quite as critical as you (and many others) as to the Lamb/Livan/Monroe/Everett acquisitions.
Livan exceeded expectations, until he ran out of gas. Not a disaster until as of late.
Monroe produced HRs at the fastest rate on the Twins, partially justifying the risk taken on him (but he failed in his assigned role).
Everett’s shoulder unexpectedly wore out some (while of course “he never could hit” — he wasn’t really expected to).
Lamb’s the biggest disappointment to me. But he got after it okay on defense (making himself at least average) and he was a pretty good RBI man there for a couple months. And technically, the jury is still out on him — he could get hot (he almost jerked one out the other night).
So I think the Twins just about got their money’s worth with these players, using them as a stopgap until the younger guys started coming around.
But you’re right — the results were predictable, cuz these guys are old (risky in the injury area, etc.) And I hope Ryan/Smith or whatever the braintrust is nowadays has learned its lesson.
So I don’t hold these acquisitions against Smith. As T has pointed out, the FO is totally surprised at this year’s Twins success.
But now that the surprise is over, I’m almost totally negative on Smith for not acquiring someone (Beltre, Greene, etc.) like all his rivals just have.
“But golf relaxes me.
Except when I punch my car in the golf course parking lot after a round.”
Just remember sane, there’s a reason that golf spelled backward is flog, and why Mark Twain called golf, “a good walk spoiled”.
Golf is called Golf because all the other four-letter words were already taken!
I don’t know what you’ve seen from Gomez that makes you think he can hit. If he can it will take some time.
He’s still swinging at almost 39% of pitches outside of the strike zone, which is a marginal improvement at best over the 41% he swung at last season with the mets, and he’s only making contact with around 3% more of those pitches (around 61% vs 58%). To put that in perspective Span swings at only 18% of pitches outside of the strike zone, and makes contact with 67% of those. That’s why he makes contact with almost 90% of the pitches he swings at overall while Gomez only makes contact with around 78%.
It’s also why Gomez strikes out once every four ABs, while Span strikes out once every six ABs. It’s also why Gomez has 3 more walks in 293 fewer plate appearances, and maintains an acceptable 0.86 K:BB ratio compared to Gomez’s ugly 6.8 K:BB ratio.
Gomez may get lucky in the short term, but overall his approach at the plate needs to change drastically if he’s ever going to see consistent success.
Excuse me Span’s K:BB ratio is 1.16, not 0.86
At first I was upset that the Twins did not pick up a Beltre type player, but then I thought of the pitching rotation next year…
1.Liriano
2.Baker
3.Blackburn
4.Slowly
5.Perkins
That is a GREAT young starting rotation, that will be fun to watch the rest of this year and next year.
i can’t wait to watch ‘cisco tomorrow against the indians. i’m hoping he goes at least 6+ tomorrow and only gives up 1 or 2 runs and morneau and kubel hit a couple jacks to get him the win.
honestly, i’d really like him to pitch a no-hitter, but that’s probably not going to be a reality.
