On the (comeback?) road with Pat Neshek
Posted on August 12th, 2008 – 12:32 PMBy La Velle
I swapped e-mails with Pat Neshek over the weekend when the Twins threw out the possibility that Neshek could return to the team before the year was over.
To me, it’s a super long shot that he will return this year. While he could shock all of us, have no setbacks and return to action, he could also need a couple more months before he’s ready to face hitters - or could have a setback that requires surgery.
I only had room for one comment from Neshek for the ink-on-paper edition on Sunday. So the following is Neshek’s entire e-mail (printed with his permission) from Saturday:
”Well I’ve been down here for 6 days and have been playing catch every other
day right now. I’ll be moving back to 75 feet for a couple days and then 90
feet for another week. After that I will be throwing everyday from 60 feet,
I think it’s just going to be progression from there and see where I’m at.
I’m not sure about a mound visit yet…might happen later in the month I’m
sure and I guess it really depends if we are still in the race and I’m sure
we will be right up there.
It’s been going great so far, kind of what I
expected, no problems at all but I haven’t really been tossing hard at all.
My only concern is when I start letting it go and when I throw my slider and
also when the adrenaline starts flowing. I think that’s something you can’t
really prepare for it’s either going to be fine or hurt so we’ll see when I
start throwing it a little harder. The docs seem pretty upbeat that I can
come back from this, I’m still not sure, I’m taking it slow and will test it
when they tell me to…I still have no clue with a time frame…
I still
could get surgery or I could be back in the middle of September, if things
are fine I’m going to prepare to be ready to go if needed…if I have
setbacks I will slow things down and reevaluate. Check back in a week and
I’m sure I will know more.”
It’s a long shot, but he’s giving it a shot. I’m sure Nehsek won’t put himself in a spot where his career is at risk and back off is something doesn’t feel right.
On an unrelated note, heard over the weekend that Luke Hughes will play third base at the Arizona Fall League this year. I’ve been told a few times that Hughes is a man without a standout position, but a path to the majors is open for him if he can settle in at third and show some of that power he had at New Britain. He’s .277-2-8 since being promoted to Rochester.
Brian Buscher really hasn’t been bad at third, but I don’t blame the Twins for creating options - especially if Hughes proves he can hit for power.
76 Responses to "On the (comeback?) road with Pat Neshek"
La Velle,
I thought I read that Hughes best position was 2b, why not leave him there and switch Casilla back to SS in the future? The Twins already have a pretty solid 3b prospect in Valencia on Hughes heels at New Britain.
A Neshek return would be fantastic, but I’d hate to see him rush himself.
I keep getting an eerie feeling with the Rays having designated Al Reyes for assignment… I’d really rather not see him trying his hand at the eighth inning.
The Twins have a history of liking veteran guys though, and Reyes said he was confident he could stay consistent if he got the ball more than every four or five days…
I’d rather stick with Crain. =\
Neshek is my hero. A year without has really shown how dynamic he is for the ‘pen. I am glad to see that he is not rushing himself, I want to see him come back healthy and strong.
Hughes’ natural position is 3B, but he has played a lot of 2B and CF as well as a little SS. I thought Danny Valencia would head to the AFL.
Just a form question:
Why list only Hughes’ BA, HR and RBI numbers? BA and RBI are two of the least significant stats available, especially in only 47 ABs. Why not OBP (.306), SLG (.511), or OPS (817)? You’re going to have to do better to retain Gleeman’s Official Beat Writer status. I’m sure that means a lot to you.
Boy if neschek came back that would help us tremendously if we make the playoffs. This team needs a set in stone set-up man in front of nathan like the the US needs a plan to deal with it’s arcaic crumbling infastructure.
Pat needs to give it time, show up for Spring Training. Maybe he can concentrate on his autograph collection while rehabbing. Then, come back strong as ever. Buscher has played well enough at 3B and has held up his BA throughout the season. I’d focus more at SS for a near term need. Everett’s arm is still iffy and we know his bat is light.
Steve-
If Bradford isn’t an upgrade, neither is Reyes. Rather have Bass (gasp!) than Reyes.
As well as Buscher has batted this year, his defense is still sceptical. The more options we have at 3B for next year the better. SS is a bigger priority though for next year. I can’t imaging having Everett here another year. Maybe Tolbert can replace him, but we haven’t seen enough of Tolbert yet to know.
Regardless, if the Twins are going to make a run not only to the postseason, but in it, they need bullpen help. That is the #1 priority THIS YEAR. It would be great if our starters would give us 7 innings, but when that doesn’t happen I hold my breath until the 9th.
So here’s hoping Nesheck can make it back without setbacks and help us make a nice run into the postseason. I say that because we all believe the Twins FO won’t be making any outside moves. Uhgg!
La Velle,
Seatle most certainly has or will put Beltrae thru waivers right? Any word if they will ask for the same for him as at the trading deadline, if he is claimed?
If they ask a little less, any chance the Twins make that deal?
PJ, you are right. The Twins FO won’t make any moves. IF they won’t pick up Bradford because he makes 3.5 mil next year (even though they wasted 2.7 on Rincon the last two years), then they won’t do anything that isn’t an absolute bargain or cheap.
Well they do have another guy in AAA by the name of Alejandro Machado who is hitting very well (.379 BA and a .950 OPS) that could come up and play 2B next year and move Casilla over to short. That way Hughes and Buscher can fight for 3B.
I thought this was interesting, the Twins hitters since the all-star break:
Span .307/.378/.489
Punto .162/.225/.243
Mauer .288/.372/.397
Morneau .238/.376/.488
Kubel .273/.310/.485
Young .278/.341/.392
Buscher .321/.362/.453
Harris .279/.357/.459
Gomez .266/.319/.313
Everett .300/.417/.450
Lamb .375/.400/.625
Redmond .259/.286/.259
Look at the Mets. They too need some valuable bullpen help. Where do you find it? It’s not out there. Either we need to get it from AAA or keep hoping Nesheck receives some Randal Cunningham therapy and makes a miraculous recovery to make it back in time this year.
You nailed it, RGHrbek. But the Yankees aren’t cheap. Last night they started the three new guys, Pudge, Xavier Nady, and Sexson. Only problem, the Yanks are closer to last place than first place, and, I hope, falling further down.
if neshek has a setback and needs surgery how far does that set him back will he be ready for next season
ES16:
One guy sticks out like a sore thumb on that list (sorry, pun intended).
MudCat- It becomes even more clear when you compare Punto and Harris. It’s pathetic that Harris is sitting.
If Hughes keeps the pedal to the floor I see no harm in calling him up before expansion to replace the unfortunately DFA’d LNP. He turned a real corner this year and scouts are in love with the guy’s power-generating swing. 3 Ks yesterday for Rochester, but it ain’t like Punto’s going better.
The wheels will come off Machado’s run any day now. He’s gonna pull what Darnell McDonald pulled in June. He’s playing SO far over his head and his BABIP/LD numbers are VERY lucky.
FREE. RICKY. BARRETT.
ES16:
Thanks for posting those numbers. I’m not so worried about Morneau - he’s not getting any good pitches to swing at, but once he’s got a bit f protection behind him he’ll be OK.
But Punto? - yikes.
And am I the only one that thinks Lamb has begun to turn it around?
MudCat, your point is a good one. The yankees also have made the playoffs the last 15 years though. If they don’t make it this year, after trying to replace their injury depleted lineup, well, 15 out of 16 isn’t bad.
I am not advocating we spend anywhere near, or as cavalierly as them, just spend sometimes…Bradford would have been a good fit for this year and next year (in case Neshek doesn’t come back as strong as we hope).
Picking up Beltrae (who’s gonna hit 25-30 homers this year) for next year, with an option I believe in 2010, would be wise as well. It would give us a chance to figure out who our 3bman of the future is, while playing a guy who will play gold glove caliber defense and hit .270 with 25 bombs, and help Morneau to actually see a pitch this year (and next year).
You know he’ll need surgery. Should have done it right away then he’d be ready for the start of next season. Instead, He’ll have in September or October and won’t be ready until mid-season or later next year.
Same thing goes for Radke in 2006. He tore his labrum late in the 2005 season. Had he opted for surgery immediately, he’d have been ready by mid-2006 season at the very latest. Instead he pitched hurt the entire season and had nothing left by the playoffs when they needed him most.
If Neshek needs surgery, it will be Tommy John surgery… forget about 2009 then.
DIDDY:
Not much concern for Morny here either. The NL Home Run Leader has about the same average, except he has 50 homers and got traded.
But that’s the NL.
rghrbek, thanks for your quesstions to La Velle. You took the words right out of my large intestine.
I was off a little on the NL Home Run Leader. Adam Dunn, 28, was batting .233 for the Reds with 32 home runs and 74 RBIs. He goes to the D’Backs in a trade.
Sorry.
I’m not so sure the only reason the Twins passed on Bradford was the money. I suspect performance had something to do with it. A 3.61 FIP and an 8% SO rate is not going to be much of an upgrade over Matt Guerrier. I know Pat Neshek and Chad Bradfor no Pat Neshek.
was batting .233 for the Reds with 32 home runs and 74 RBIs
Batting .233 with 32 dingers? Wow…feast or famine at its best.
“Same thing goes for Radke in 2006. He tore his labrum late in the 2005 season. Had he opted for surgery immediately, he’d have been ready by mid-2006 season at the very latest. Instead he pitched hurt the entire season and had nothing left by the playoffs when they needed him most.”
The Twins probably wouldn’t have made the post-season if Radke doesn’t pitch the first half of 2006.
“Batting .233 with 32 dingers? Wow…feast or famine at its best.”
Not to mention 80 walks and 120 strike outs.
The Indians traded Byrd to the Red Sox.
cmathewson: Bradford is not a strike out pitcher, but has consistantly put up good numbers. One year over a 4 era, and the other 9 years, in the 2’s and 3’s? Extreme ground ball pitcher (come into jams and get double plays).
Neshek performed for 1.5 years, Bradford has done it for 10.
Bottom line he is an upgrade over Matt Guerrier, and the best reliever that was going to get to us on waivers.
I still have not heard a “reasonable” reason, for a team trying to win a division, to pass on a guy who best fills your most glaring need? Especially a team that said they are diligently going to try to fill needs on the waiver wire (as BS did). I need to move on….this Bradford thing drives me nuts.
Ok, one other thing on Bradford. 15.1 post season innings pitched. 0 earned runs.
rghrbek his it on the head re: bradford. FIP doesn’t account for the negative run expectation of lots of groundballs vs. balls in the air, only for the component of that that produces home runs. Besides, a 3.61 FIP is nothing to sneeze at.
thrylos98 says:
August 12th, 2008 at 2:18 pm
If Neshek needs surgery, it will be Tommy John surgery… forget about 2009 then.
I agree this has Liriano pre TJ surgery written all over it. Pat your more valuable to the team next yearjust take it easy.
I just saw that Paul Pyrd signed with the Red Sox. Where is BS? Could have used that guy in the bullpen. Hes been great since the all star break! What the hell is BS waiting on? Bass is rotten. Guerrier is tired and Crain well he is just Crain.
I have heard Hughes is a little injury prone and his defensive glove is not as good as Buscher’s. So we careful what you wish for.
Buscher has made tremendous strides from last year to this year. I expect the same improvement from this year to next because of his known off season workouts in South Carolina. I think you will see improved defense and more power. Oh, and he can hit lefties, look at his AAA and minor league stats.
I guess he will have to prove that at Spring Training.
Anyway, he has great presence in the clubhouse, great person, etc. I hope that accounts for something!
Byrd isn’t a bullpen upgrade
“I still have not heard a “reasonable” reason, for a team trying to win a division, to pass on a guy who best fills your most glaring need?”
I haven’t heard a reason yet, but if the Yankees, Tigers, and White Sox - who all need bullpen help and are trying to win a division - all passed on Bradford as well, don’t you think there might be something else going on?
YADOT
Good Twins takes on this link:
http://media.myfoxtwincities.com/livestream/webcast/archive.htm
Byrd could definitely pitch 3 innings since our boys not including last night are going 5 1/3. Whatever, whoever, this is not a playoff bullpen with the exception of Nathan.
Pete, interesting points, but the Yankees knew they were not going to get him from Baltimore, too much history there. Detroit wasn’t going to claim that salary when they had just gotten Farnsworth (who has proven to be terrible), and the Whitesox need a lefty reliever (until what’s his butt is back) and starting pitching.
If there is a reason for passing on him, why did Tampa take him? They are in a tougher division that the Twins? Again, it’s all speculation at this point, and the Twins seem like idiots for passing on this guy, if they are serious about winning this year.
rghrbek: I respectfully disagree. I doubt that he was the best reliever available. And I don’t think the Twins have stopped trying to acquire someone. The problem is, now that they are in first place, it’s tougher to do a waiver deal. But I’d be surprised if they don’t get another arm out there before the end of August.
not realistic to think knee-shack or cuddy-shack will be of any help this fall. way to long off and at least 2 weeks to get close to game shape after they’re healthy.
just heard they signed bert’s kid to pitch at aaa.
casey daigle is in china watching his wife pitch did the red wings cut him loose or is he on vacation?
cmathewson,
Let’s wait a few more games so we slobber over OBP and OPS. Just trying to give people a general idea of what he’s doing so far.
And someone has been complaining about me not mentioning Ricky Barrett as a relief option. Well, he’s left-handed, which is not what the Twins are looking for. And there’s other reasons I can’t print why he’s not an option right now.
There’s been a lot of anger and sniping here lately. No one seems happy and the team is in first place.
Hey LaVelle— I’m not angry– and I haven’t caught a snipe all week– maybe it is the bags I am using.
“not going to be much of an upgrade over Matt Guerrier”
I would agree with cmathewson that Chad Bradford isn’t an upgrade over Matt Guerrier, but he is an upgrade over Brian Bass, Boof Bonser, Craig Breslow and Dennys Reyes and possibly even Jesse Crain.
“one other thing on Bradford. 15.1 post season innings pitched. 0 earned runs”
So based on career, he’s due for a couple of bad games.
I wonder why it took Cito Gaston so long to become a manager again?
Who has worse hair LaPanta or Jerry Burns
La Velle:
Wondering if a claim on Sheffield is a possibility for the Twins. It seems that he would be a good right-handed threat in the middle of the order and could help break up our lefties.
Reasons why I would guess the Twins would shy away include 1) his reputation as a less than positive clubhouse influence, 2) the fact that his discontentment seems to come from his being relegating to DH duty in Detroit and the fact that he would probably fill the same role here and 3) the $14 million on his contract for 2009.
Your paper has written that the Twins might be willing to take on payroll if the right possibility came along - any chance here?
LaVelle…you are right. there is a lot of griping going on because fans want to see ownership stop building for the future. Nobody can guarantee anything in the future. Look at Cleveland. Who knows if these pitchers will hold up for 2010? Or if D-Young and Gomez figure it? Or if Casilla, Span are just having career years. Fans are tired of the same story about protecting the young talent because we are building for the long haul. It been 17 years since the last one. Whats the long haul. Payroll is down, and seriously, the team they ran out there over the weekend, is not a championship team. If we accept the we’re in first place theory, then we must also accept the IF we make the playoffs (huge if) we are probably 1 and done. Great story on Neshek btw.
No Mauer in the lineup…Ugh.
cmathewson: “I doubt that he was the best reliever available.” He has a 2.34 era this year in 48 appearances. Unless Fuentes or somebody of that ilk has been put on waivers (which they would have been claimed), I think he’s the best that we could’ve gotten, or will be able to get. I hope you are right and I am wrong though.
Agree 100% with Tedd. Everyone knows where the holes are with this team and when we see players that could help us go to other teams - we get frusterated. Many of us remember 1987 and 1991 and with the league (NYY down, Boston w/o Manny, Angels? and then NL just bad) where it is at we can see this team make a run…and it would be wonderful to experience that again. But without some moves we will either in in second place and at home in Sept…or be done after 1 series in the playoffs. We are passionate fans and we love fall baseball!!!
At this point, I’d rather see this team try to get Bonds than Sheffield (and I do not want them to get Bonds)… Sheffield is an underachieving whiner (think Nick Punto) with $14mil due next year and about 10 years older than Punto. No thank you.
La Velle,
yeah, there is tension on the blogosphere, but what do you expect with the team on contention 
and seeing Punto day after day (Violent Femmes mental segway) batting second, and the recent inactivity of the FO (I forgot, they signed Kielty and Shearn from the mightly Korean league) don’t help…
but, please, spill the beans:
there’s other reasons I can’t print why he’s [Barrett] not an option right now.
that sounds really juicy
Good day to all:
Anybody else caught a nasty cold bug lately? I’ve been down for a few days…a real bugger. Starting to feel better though! Didnt see the Sunday debacle or the Big Win yesterday. I hope they will stay patient and get after Mussina tonight. I dont know what’s in his coffee this year but he sure doesnt look like the same guy of the last few years.
An interesting question for anyone with statistical prowess out there: How do the Twins fare when Morneau drives in at least one run in the game? How do they do when he has multiple hit games? Anybody have their W-L record when Morneau hits and drives in runs, compared to when he doesnt?
Anecdotally, it would seem to me Morneau is the “straw the stirs the drink” for the Twins offense…any statistical support to back that up?
rayrein,
that’s a tough stat breakdown (and a bit of a chicken or egg argument), but that’s what I have:
this year in Twins’ wins Morneau is batting: .322/.406/.533 and in losses .289/.363/.474 (about .100 OPS points different).
The kicker is that tOPS+ (i.e. Morneau’s OPS relative to the Twins’ overall OPS; 100 = average) is 110 in wins and 87 in loses, which if you consider that his sOPS+ (relative to the rest of the league) is 119 in wins and 165 in loses (and 142 overall), it looks like you can validly say that when Morneau slumps the team has a higher likelihood to lose, but cannot say that when Morneau is hitting he can carry the team on his back…
I hope that the statmongering did not add to the confusion, but you asked it
No respect! Buscher has played good defense and is batting over 300 with some pop and some good clutch hitting. I don’t know why we are looking for a “superstar” at third. Why can’t people be happy with a solid hitter, with good defense, healthy, team player etc? I got your back Buscher. I’d like to see him against some lefty’s a bit more though. He obviously has to show he can hit lefty’s consistantly if he can be an everyday guy for us. Let’s not let him be the next Casey Blake and go somewhere else only to succeed.
Seth,
I agree with you. I think that’s where the Twins want to upgrade.
Sweet, LEN’s back at work. I thought he might hole up at Dunkin’ Donuts (no pun intended) for a couple more days before rejoining the workforce.
Right on, LEN!
Thanks much thrylos98 for the input on Morneau. So the anecdotal evidence is partly true–for the Twins to have success offensively, Morneau needs to be hitting. On the other hand, his hot streaks are not in themselves enough to ignite runs. Interesting stuff. Makes one wonder if the Twins have that “one guy” who is truly indispensable offensively? Do world series championship caliber teams need that “one guy” to prevail in the playoffs?
what you guys think about sheffield? As a possible Twin…
Lala72
you are commenting on LEN3 blog. Consider this a privilege. If someone invites you to their house you don’t piss do your business in their living room.
so damn uncool
“And someone has been complaining about me not mentioning Ricky Barrett as a relief option. Well, he’s left-handed, which is not what the Twins are looking for. And there’s other reasons I can’t print why he’s not an option right now.”
I have no idea who that could be *cough FREE RICKY BARRETT*
What’s seriously funny about this is there’ve been a few comments directed at “complainers” here and elsewhere that basically say “you’re conspiracy theorists. you don’t think the FO wants to succeed?? you think they’re deliberately undermining the team??” I’ve always laughed because I’m absolutely NOT a conspiracy theorist and attribute what I see as poor moves to them simply lacking the wherewithal to get things right. As such I’ve never bothered to respond to anything along those lines. But NOW it looks like there ARE hidden things going on. Suddenly my comment on your piece (calling it a shill job/smokescreen for the FO for not mentioning Barrett) suddenly looks WAY too insightful. While I merely meant that you were trying not to be too critical of the FO for not making what looks on paper to be the obvious move so as to maintain your access to sources, etc. (a structural problem with journalism in general in this country, but especially local sports journalism), I guess there really was something sinister (or at least “juicy”) at work. I certainly don’t envy your position of balancing “hard” journalism with the need to stay in the loop.
I’m obviously beyond curious what the issue is. The “Twins don’t want a LHer” thing is another blatant dodge, btw, even if that’s what the FO is telling you: I’ve pointed out ad nauseum here and elsewhere that he pitches RH hitters just as well as lefties.
Click through my name and lemme know what’s up, Mr. Neal. I won’t tell.
I don’t want to smear Ricky Barrett, but if he isn’t an option, the problem has to be character/legal. Hopefully, things are resolved or Barrett entices some other team with his talent.
My comment on Barrett is a total guess. I have no inside information, except that I know the Twins don’t want anyone who is viewed as a “bad guy”.
Sometimes I hate this stupid family friendly farm town. Chicago would collectively puke if one of its network affiliates changed their call letters to KARE.
Good for Chicago home of the biggest loser sports teams in the world. That would be a fun puke to see.
I think if the Twins gave Barry Bonds a job, he’d be so happy it would be until the off-season before he started the me-first. Sign him for the rest of the year and have him DH!
Wyatt: Sheff’s hitting .210 or so with 10 homers (well, 12 after today)
A righty hitting almost .200 with only a handful of dingers? Twins let that go in Monroe.
And at least Monroe could “play” in the OF.
You’re right T. It would be better to bring back Monroe. Sheffield is hitting .223/.323/.394 this year. He’s 39 years old and due $14 million next year.
I’d like to see Korecky called up and Ruiz sent down. The bullpen is overworked already. With the big road trip coming up and the way the team has pitched on the road, the Twins are going to need an extra pitcher for the rest of the month. I don’t think they can piece things together with what they’ve got until Sept 1.
Ruiz has been doing his job, but there aren’t enough at bats for him to make him more valuable than another arm.
Even if they just brought Korecky up until Casilla comes back, it would give Guerrier some much needed rest (with Crain taking over the 8th inning).
No lineup yet. I think Gardy is waiting to see if Mauer can play. I did see Mauer with a bat in his hands. We’ll see…
Will post the lineup ASAP
thrylos: anyone that mentions the VFs in a post deserves a special call out and thank you. That is one of the great albums of all time!
Just saw the line up. Harris is at SS and in the #2 spot.
