Twins: The pivotal game No. 14
Posted on September 4th, 2008 – 10:53 AMBy La Velle
Let’s not sugarcoat it. This has been an awful road trip. The Twins have failed to make plays in the field, cash in on run-scoring opportunities and solve their late-inning bullpen problems.
There were numerous mistakes on Wednesday.
Nick Punto was devoured by a line drive. A tough play, but a play he must make.
Matt Tolbert made a horrible throw on a routine play.
Jason Pridie’s first game in the majors will be remembered for how he tried to make an aggressive play on a ball hit to him and committed a costly error.
After Tolbert’s leadoff triple in the fifth, Carlos Gomez and Denard Span could’t just put the ball in play and score run - although it seemed A.J. Burnett threw his best breaking balls of the night there.
Joe Nathan says he feels great on the mound and is ready to pitch as much as the Twins need him. But a leadoff walk to a backup catcher is unacceptable.
Two good things that happened Wednesday: Righthander Nick Blackburn was generally solid for 62/3 innings, giving up two earned runs on six hits with no walks and six strikeouts. He gave up some hard hit balls late that were right at his defense but got through it. And Matt Guerrier got out of a bases-loaded jam in the seventh and pitched a 1-2-3 eighth.
They are lucky to be just one game behind the White Sox at this point, but the Sox have their own issues too.
There should be an angry team tonight at Rogers Centre as the Twins try to salvage a 6-8 road trip.
“As bad as it has gone, as bad as our luck has been, we’re hoping it will turn and be just as good on the other end,” said Nathan, who threw 45 pitches on Wednesday.
114 Responses to "Twins: The pivotal game No. 14"
I have faith in Slowey pitching well against this lineup. 7-3 Twins win!
I don’t know, LaVelle, but I’m sure you do: Do they ever GET angry or fired up after a loss or string of bad games? I’ve read about the exuberance after a big win or series win, but after games like last night I only see quotes like Nathan’s above or Gardenhire’s subdued finger-pointing. No one seems to get angry and try to rally the team to snap out of it and start playing like professionals. Maybe they ARE angry and fired up when they make statements like Nathan’s or Morneau’s the other night…it just doesn’t come through in print. So tell us. What IS their mood? Are they dumbfounded? Resigned? Tired? Or are they anxious to get out there with the confidence that they WILL win tonight?
Most people expected a rough road trip, due to the Angels and Toronto series and due to the fact we basically play poorly on the road. The team has met those expectations with 5-9 or 6-8 records. Still sucks though cause it could have been much better.
But, on the bright side (which is where I like to spend my time), we are in a pennant race and have no reason to think the whities can run away from us.
I still think we will each be within 2-3 games of each other by the time we meet on 9/23, which makes the last week look mighty large.
And for those that think we have no chance in post-season, odds are in your favor, but Twins’ history suggests that it is possible. I recall 1987 team that couldn’t win on the road, but managed to win a WS. That team went 29-52 on the road.
So, buckle up, it could be quite the roller coaster month. Probably not one for the faint of heart.
No doubt about it, the Twins have certainly lost some tight games and some they should have won. But a win tonight gives them a 6-8 road trip. I seem to remember this very newspaper predicting a 7-7 trip. For the Twins to go 6-8 over a 14 game trip, to not lose ground(at least not much) to the White Sox, to even be 15 games over .500 on September 4 with a good chunk of games left at home-the Twins and Twins fans should be thrilled(not satisfied yet). But the world certainly isn’t ending either and I mean both the real world and the Twins world.
JA- Slowey can pitch his heart out, but it won’t matter if the defense/offense doesn’t back him up. Being the last game of this awful, long road trip, I really hope they stop playing lazily and find the energy to put their ALL into this one.
I wonder how long it’s been since a starter got the loss? It seems like it’s been forever.
We are simply not a very good team - good teams don’t lose games like this time after time. The most frustrating part is that the hallmark of recent Twins teams has always been solid defense and a good bullpen.
This team has neither.
Mike,
The starters have only taken the loss in 2 games in this road trip.
Blackburn got the loss in LA on 8/22 and Baker got the loss in SEA on 8/25.
The frustration is not just about the numbers. A 6-8 road trip (hoping for the W tonite) is winning at a .428 pace. The Twins were 26-31 before the trip or .456. They have not played that far below what they have done all year on the road. They are just not a very good road team, but not many teams are this year (only the angels, yankee and TB are .500 or above on the road in the AL). The frustration comes from how they are losing. The Twins lead in 6 of the 8 games lost and failed to have the grit, the resolve to win.
I smell another Toronto sweep, but when they get home……….LOOK OUT ! ! ! They may rip off a big win streak. Not entirely impossible! ! !
TC - exactly. I predicted a 6-8 road trip before they left, but I never imagined watching that possibly come true would be this difficult. It’d be one thing if all these games were blowouts. But they had the opportunities to turn this into something more like a 11-3 road trip. Ugh. I haven’t lost all hope, though, not even close. Even with a loss tonight, they’d still be only 1.5 games back, and I think playing at home for a bit will re-energize them.
There is no denying, they have not played well on this trip. But, they are far to talented in the starting pitching front to let this persist for too long. They will come home 1/2 game out of first, with six at home against DET. & KC. Also they will not face Grienke. While the White Sox face LAA & TOR. and face all their studs. Next week this road trip will only be a memory and most likely a spring board to three gfreat weeks of play. Sometimes a bad taste is good to have.
We are only 1 game back after playing this bad. When we get home that will be a different story. Doobie doo wop bop, bop. Yip, yip, yip, yip yip, yip, yip doo wop
I predicted at the beginning of the road trip that Twins would go 6-8. I hope I am right…
Although I did say that the twins would go 1-3 in Anaheim and that it would be a .500 road trip after that…
Ooooooh yeah!!! The Detroit series coming up soon for the Bowzer man. Boop de doop be be do wop, bop, wop…..
It’s been ugly, but it’s far from over.
This road trip makes me want to bust out a sax and play the blues. Boop de wop bop bop. Oh yeeeeah
RM: I think you are wrong about the Twins not being a very good team. They are a good team; not a great. However, it sure is fun watching games.
LaVelle, let’s not sugercoat THIS either: I’m a Gardy supporter, but he’s done some questionable managing this road trip.
For example, Buscher in the lineup against a lefthanded starter Monday. Gomez sits Monday against said lefthanded starter, but is back in center field against a righhanded strikeout pitcher (Burnett) Tuesday.
It’s not Gardy’s fault Nathan walks the leadoff hitter in the ninth. It’s not Gardy’s fault Punto can’t field a hard hit grounder, or Pridie can’t cleanly field a soft single in right.
But it’s absolutly Gardy’s fault he’s not exactly wise about how he deploys the flawed players he has to work with.
If you’re gonna call out the players–and rightfully so–you gotta call out everyone. And that includes the manager.
It should also include the GM, but that ship sailed long ago.
So here’s what you hang your hat on after these frustrating loss’s: 1. This starting staff is young and GOOD!. (We have seen the last of the Ramon Ortiz, Livan Hernandez adventures) 2 - Mauer and Morneau (nuff said)! 3 - Nathan is very good. (and signed). 4. Denard Span 5. Delmon Young is getting better and he’s only 22! 7. Gomez - see Delmon Young. 8.Two of the three pitchers they got from the mets, had great second halfs in the minors and may be MLB ready by spring training next year. Givng the Twins leverage over the winter in the trade market. 9. Neshek comes back next year (hopefully) to strengthen the 8th inning. and last but not least…. Ozzie gets fired in Chicago for mouthing off to Kenny Williams after getting swept later this month and losing the division.
This team better be pissed off when they return home and be fired up to win this division. I thought the Twins had the potential to go 10-4 or 9-5 on this road trip, so a 6-8 record would be disappointing. But, the 10-4 record was entirely possible if they would have held onto their late inning leads. However, some people predicted that anything less than a stellar road trip would result in a 4-5 game deficit behind the White Sox and end the season, but La Velle is right on when he says that the White Sox have their own issues. It may just be that these two teams limp to the finish line. The Twins have the weaker schedule and lets hope our young arms hold up.
I don’t care whether this team is angry or not…they need to win baseball games.
It’s well past time for Gardy to chew this team a new one. There play has been unacceptable. Then Gardy and staff need to receive the same from Bill Smith. Pathetic baseball. Granted, almost nobody, myself included, expected them to get anywhere near as far as they’ve come. But to do so, then play AA baseball is just pathetic.
Screw that. Gardy is the one who needs to be chewed out. Who puts a rookie making his MLB debut in RF in a situation like that? Who bats Nick Punto 7th? Are you serious? WTF?
Who wants to bet that Punto is in the line-up again tonight depsite kicking yet another ball? any other player gets benched but not LNP. He gets to play 42 straight games!!!
Turn in your badge Mr. Gardenhire…
This division race is like Rocky vs. Apollo Creed where they both knock each other down - but whoever gets up first wins.
The rookie in the outfield was the price for getting gomez’s bat out of the line-up and Delmon Young getting a pinch hit double - which lead to Mauer’s 3-run double in the 7th and a 3-2 lead. Young has a bad ankle and cannot play, so Pridie was the only outfielder left. Gardy absolutely made the right move to get gomez out of the line up. Gardy gave the team a chance to win, pridie just did not execute.
Am I missing something here. Did we not have the lead in the ninth with Nathan on the mound. You people want to blame this on Punto, Pirdie and Tolbert for errors. By the way Tolbert’s bad throw did not cost the Twins anything. Nathan gave up a lead off walk and then a two out base hit. No one here wants to mention what really happened. It’s Gardy’s fault for playing Tolbert, Punto and Pirdie. Give me a break! Nathan blew the save period. He gets paid 11 million a year. If you give up a walk and a hit in a inning chances are the other team will score a run.
neither did nathan btw.
get rid of Bonsore
“Gardy is the one who needs to be chewed out. Who puts a rookie making his MLB debut in RF in a situation like that?”
What should Gardy have done differently? You could make a case that he should have put Pridie in CF and Span in RF, but Pridie came in as a PR for Young who had PH for Gomez. Gardy was out of outfielders at that point and he had to put Pridie in somewhere.
TC fan said it better (and faster) than I did.
I suppose punto to cf (which he has played) and span to rf and then everett to short would have worked. May even have prevented two errors - punto’s at ss in the bottom of the 7th and pridie’s in rf in the 9th, but that is 20-20 hindsight and not likely when you have a true outfielder, albeit a rookie, on the bench.
I agree, Brasky. Why is Pridle in right field last night in the ninth inning of a 1-run game (1 run lead) in the middle of a pennant race? There were two outs at the time. IF Pridle simply fields that cleanly, runners on 1st and 2nd.
Nathan struck out the next guy … game would have been over.
Pridie has a good glove he made an error get over it. It sounds like we stuck a relief pitcher in the outfield. Nathan should have not given up a 2-out base hit and a lead off walk.
Does anyone really think Nathan even comes into the game if gomez hit with two outs in the 7th instead of young? I don’t.
We need MR help. Doo bee do wop bop boh ooooh yeaaah!!
If the Twins could get any three players from any team other then ARod who would people like to see on the Twins? My first would choice would be Utley of the 3 players I could name
I cant wait to see the lineup tonight.
Maybe Berkman
Utley, Fat Elvis and Hamilton.
punto made an error that allowed a run to score. if he makes the play we are out of the inning and win the game. tolberts error did not result in a run but it prolonged the inning which blackburn shoud’ve already been out of, which forced them to go to the bullpen an inning before they needed to. you can’t sugar coat punto’s error by putting the blame on nathan. he did not pitch great but without that error he gets the save and we win.
I think ARod has like 9 rbi in the last 5 games and they boo the Hell out of him.
Ben D great choices I might pick Hanley Ramirez also. Fat Elvis is a great choice or how bout’ Vlad from the Angels.
Gooble
Then put an error on Span and Gomez for not putting the ball in play when Tolbert lead off the 5th with a triple. That’s pathetic hitting.
New Yorkers who boo ARod are just retarded. He is a great player and just like Kobe I hate them both. ARod is the Kobe Bryant of Baseball.
jimmy; it is speculated that beltre, atkins and uggla will all be made available this winter. any of these guys would be a big upgrade at 3b or in uggla at 2b with cassilla moving to ss. all will cost at least one of our starters probably. but the strength of the farm system is starting pitching. imo cisco and baker are off limits but i’d trade one of the other three if i could get one of these guys.
scott shields and brian fuentes for the bullpen and garrett atkins 3b, right handed bat, .291, 18 hrs, 86 rbi, .963 fielding percentage.
Jimmy,
It looks like you might not get to see lightning strike Gomez in the ass in the new stadium. His bat is HORRIBLE. He might be in AAA next year.
GGG who would you take without having to give up anything? Any 3 in the league for the Twins.
Ben D do you think LaPanta will have to get the dead squirrel stiched to the old scalp before the new ball park opens
It is in his contract. Twins cannot afford the dead squirrel whiping around the stadium, it will scare the little kids.
[…] Originally published by Twins Insider […]
A bald headed LaPanta chasing his rug around the stadium will hurt attendance.
Gobble-
I would be definitely willing to trade a starting pitcher for anyone of those guys. I would prefer trading Blackburn because i think he could easily be replaced by another one of the Twins young pitching studs next year. I would hold on to the other starters.
Do you ever think they could do a promotional dead squirrel give away to the first 10,000 lucky fans.
jimmy; Albert Pujols STL .360 .ave 30 hr, 91 rbi, .468 obp, .640 slg, 1.108 ops
used to play 3b would fit in rather nice imo.
GGG I would agree 100%. I forgot Pujols.
Soriano would be nice to have
I did not realize Pujols numbers were that good. Even his career he is a .330 hitter and never hit under 30 Hrs.
I’m going with Utley, Pujols and Fat Elvis.
Ben D yes it is surprising that he can still pas a urine test. He must be a little ahead of the tests still.
What a difference a few months make. I remember not too long ago when they got to the 6th or 7th inning either tied or with a lead, I was profoundly confident they were going to win. Now, we go to the 6th or 7th inning even with a 2 or 3 run lead and I’m just waiting to see how they’re going to blow it. Yesterday’s game was the worst I’ve seen all year. It’s almost as if they’re expecting to lose. I do expect a bounce-back game today, however, mainly because I think Slowey’s a stud. I pray that Gardy doesn’t pull him after 6 nice innings and a low-90’s pitch count. Considering the bullpen was both shredded yesterday and completely gassed, I’m guessing Gardy will give Slowey a little more wiggle room tonight. While I’m grateful that they’ll be back home tomorrow, I know they’re going to have to learn to win on the road if they’re going to win the division and/or make some noise in the playoffs. It’s all about confidence, and right now they don’t have any. I’ve never seen Nathan look so frazzled. He was sweating like a fat man chasing a runaway M&M.
Jimmy
Was the Fat Elvis on roids or does he just like chicken to much.
I will go Ichiro, Fat Elvis and Utley
imo pujols is the best player in the game. much rather have him than a-rod.
Longoria, Utley and Pujols
A-Rod best in the game IMO. He will shatter the HR record.
**ARod**
Whom does jimmy bee hate more Kobe Bryant or ARod. Hmmmmm….. I think ARod has a curse on him and he will never bring a WS title to any town. The curse of ARod
Why all the hate for A-Rod. I hate Kobe, but A-Rod is ok.
I think it is just because he is greedy
The Lapanta jokes are hilarious.
I didn’t think the first 3,249 lame attempts–just since the All Star break–were more than a way to make these blogs unreadable…but the 3,250th one just cracked me up!
USAFChief started losing his hair when he was 12 years old and was totally bald by his senior picture. His hair piece looks like a posum’s ass. He has not had a sense of humor in a long time.
Ben D USAChief’ life started out bald then had hair like Homer Simpson and then went bald again real quick.
It’s a sad story for USAChief. He needs to get into bald support group like AA. Bald and Angry Anonymous.
I think I saw USAChief and LaPanta riding in a convertable over the weekend. It looked like a squirrel and Possum were trying to mate going down the freeway.
It’s hard for USAChief these days his head has grown and his toupee can not properly cover up the entire top of his head. His toupee was produced for him out of muskrat and not the traditional squirrel when he was 12. His head was much smaller then. These days at 5ft 3in tall and 270 lb’s it takes much more material to cover up the old melon.
There is hope though for USAChief these days he could have astro turf stitched into his skull
all the anger probably scared the hair away.
oh wait, i don’t have any hair…. doh!
Who is Fat Elvis?
Who is USAChief?
So i wonder how much money the Red Sox or Mets will throw at Pujols because i agree with gobble he’s the best hitter in the game.
Phat Elvis=Berkman
I don’t see Pujols leaving St Louie
What scares me is the next road trip.
Baltimore is playing well now but Tampa and Cleveland are playing well. We will need to improve on the road. Of course, it could also come down to the pivotal series against the White Sox.
Pridie and any major league player should be able to make the play in RF.
He played great baseball for AAA Rochester (Team MVP) and should be able to handle the catch. Of course, last night he didn’t. I hope he can redeem himself.
BC if Tex wants 20 mill or so a season Pujols will want the Budweiser clydesdales and Brewery along with 25-30 mill a season
Shawn in Binghamton That Baltimore series is coming up for you soon
Pridie was the team mvp in rochester?
I agree jimmy i don’t see him leaving the Cards but what a great addition he would be to any team.
I think Pridie was named best defensive OF by Baseball America.
Who will start at 3B tonight? I say it will be Tolbert again, maybe Harris.
BC Tex is available maybe they would trade Pujols and pick up Tex if he is to expensive
All you bright side people make me sick. We cannot be content just “contending”. That’s the kind of thinking that made the queens four time superbowl losers. Kirby wasn’t comfortable just competing. If his team was good he did all the little things to make the team great…..HELLO JOE MAUER JUSTIN MORNEAU JOE NATHAN. you guys are supposed to be the leaders ofthis generation of twins. Stopped being a bunch of cowards and take control of this team alla kirby and tori!!! If that’s not your personnality too bad your being paid to LEAD this team to the promise land. Either step-up or get the hell out.
I wouldnt mind seeing Tolbert at SS and Harris at 3B, but there is no way in Hell Punto gets a day off.
I can see Pujols in Yankee pinstripes.
It will be tolbert again…..Gardy waited too long to pencil both him and Punto in the same side of the infield together….
I agree with Shameless.
Coyotetom–Neither can I that means I can stop seeing him hit homeruns over our little bandbox in left field 20 times a year…..
shameless,
kirby presided over 1 great team. 87 team got in due to a bad division, then maybe Kirby put them on his back. Why couldn’t he do the same with the 88 or 92 clubs?
I love Kirby and I agree the leaders need to step up, but cmon.
Kirbs played on alot of bad teams
It will be Tolbert. He had a good game other than that horrible throw.
Lineup’s?
Shawn,
Actually in 88 the Twins far exceed what they did in 87, they just couldn’t catch Oakland.
this is true, but by his argument, Kirby would have made the team catch oakland.
Rookies (Pridie) make mistakes…it happens…lets hope he bounces back from it
mlb.com has a short story on morneau for mvp. gardy says he’d be the twins mvp if it wern’t for nicky.
One other thing about Kirby and leaders.Puckett was the most media friendly(like Hunter) and there for was often Thought of as the leader by the media,which translated into the fans thinking the same thing.The ‘87 team also had Gaetti int the clubhouse,along with Hrbek,Gladden and Blyleven.the ‘91 team had veterans like Morris,Davis,Hrbek,and Gladden.
The ‘08 version of the Twins is clearly Morneau’s team IMO.I don’t know if Mauer is cut out to be that kind of player,I could be wrong.But the rest of the team is so young no one else has yet earned the stripes to qualify.I think Punto “thinks” he isa leader,but that is laughable.
One other thing,all this is specculation on my part.The same goes for anyone else here posting on this subject.No one here knows what goes on behind the clubhouse doors.
The Twins need to win big tonight. 10-2 or 12-4 or something, so they feel confident coming back home. Hopefully they can win 5 of 6 at home before hitting the road again.
This road trip has been the toughest Twins baseball I’ve watched since July/August/September 2001 when they couldn’t score a damn run to save their lives.
LNP is a leader on this team. See how many guys have slid into first recently?
Well why not slide into first when you see a guy with marginal talent get rewarded and get called a gamer etc? If the manager wants you to battle and all those other lame sports cliches then why not break the first rule of base running?
Gardenhire always changes the lineup around without good reason. He doesn’t yet know who should play third base or shortstop. He is beginning his habitual manipulation of the lineup that will ultimately cost the Twins the division championship. Gardenhire is fundamentally opposed to establishing the best possible lineup and leaving them alone to play at their best. He always has to be messing with the lineup.
Ron Gardenhire is confused. He thinks his job it to tinker with the lineup everyday. It makes him feel important. Whether or not the Twins win is not important to him. His ego is bigger than the playoffs.
the lineup is late because gardy is scuffling a little today after the tuff loss. but he’s a battler.
not much shuffling….. tolbert got another shot…. loves that track team too much
Baseball leadership defined:
1. Making plays when your team most needs them made.
2. Not making mistakes when your team can least afford them.
3. Doing the “little” things that consistently help your team, so that they add up to “big things” overall.
4. Playing relaxed, but with greater concentration the greater the pressure.
5. Having your teammates feed off of this relaxed concentration and intensity.
6. Making your teammates better.
Whether a guy is a rah-rah guy, or a kick-butt guy in the locker room is immaterial. Leaders lead by their play on the field. And right now, our team lacks leadership. We will need more than one. So some of these guys need to emerge, quickly, or they will not transition from being a good team to being a championship-caliber team.
