What’s going on in Florida?
Posted on October 21st, 2008 – 5:10 PMBy La Velle
Instructional league games have ended but Twins officials remain in Fort Myers, Fla. for a few more days as they try to plot a course for the offseason.
They are going over players on other clubs, identifying who’s available and at what cost. They are identifying free agents to go after. They have money to spend, tradeable commodities and the desire to get the team back in the playoffs. This is the time when all kinds of concepts are tossed out for discussion during meetings.
For instance, everyone knows that the left side of the infield must be addressed, but there may be different opinions on who to address it. Here are two things I’ve heard recently:
1. Since Alexi Casilla has established himself as a second baseman there isn’t a rush to move him to short.
2. Everyone would have to be on board if Michael Cuddyer is to move to third and there’s no chance that everyone is on board with that.
This, to me, is the highest priority for the offseason. The Twins’ OPS vs lefties was .729 versus .757 against righties. They should work to balance that out - and they should not expect that the Usain Bolt approach to scoring runs will work as well as it did this year.
But getting a third baseman won’t be easy. The Twins like Adrian Beltre, but he’s in the final year of a contract and is a Scott Boras client, which guarentees that he’ll walk after one season. That affects what the Twins would be willing to give up.
Garrett Atkins is decent, but his home-road splits aren’t good. There were reports late in the season that he could be on the trade block, but don’t they have a bigger issue in Matt Holliday to deal with?
Kevin Kouzmanoff? Not a great good defensive player and doesn’t walk much.
Someone with the club pointed out to me that they could go status quo with third base - especially with prospects Danny Valencia and Luke Hughes getting close to the majors - and look for a good-hitting shortstop. That’s interesting. But I’m not fired up about Orlando Cabrera, if that’s who they have in mind. He’ll be 34 next season. He’s going to want, what, $5-6 million a year? More? And he wasn’t the most popular player in his clubhouse late in the seaosn - although credited the Twins for playing the way his team couldn’t.
Right up there with right-handed pop is right-handed bullpen help. Righthander Pat Neshek, who missed most of the season rehabbing a torn ligament in his elbow, has been working out in Fort Myers and telling everyone how great he feels.
He’ll get to prove it next week, when he climbs on a mound for the first time since breaking down in May.
A healthy Neshek would be a boost. The emergence of lefty Jose Mijares is encouraging. But I still think the Twins should look at free agents and trades to bolster the bullpen during the offseason. And what will Boof Bonser’s role be next season?
And I haven’t even gotten to the oufield logjam, if they keep Cuddyer out there. Twins GM Bill Smith on Sunday did a great job of saying a lot without saying a lot, if you know what I mean. But there’s no way they want to enter 2009 with four outfielders and Jason Kubel locked in as the DH. Someone’s gotta go, and that person could help land a third baseman or a reliever. If the Twins don’t want to admit to it in print, so be it.
Finally, I reported last week that the Twins were expected to announce Ron Gardenhire’s contract soon, but it hasn’t happened yet. People I talk to keep saying it won’t be a difficult negotiation. But, for whatever reason. Smith and Gardy had not sat down as of late Monday. If nothing happens on Wednesday, the Twins probably will wait until after the World Series to announce it.
159 Responses to "What’s going on in Florida?"
I say Kubel or Young should go. Delmon is still young and won’t qualify for free agency till 2012 — he might look strongest on the trading block-
plus his defense makes me dizzy.
Why exactly should Kubel go? Kubel just had nearly the exact season that Big Papi had the year before we got rid of him, and look how well that worked out for us.
I want Hardy. Doubt it is going to happen and I think the brewers would be foolish to move him but it would be a good fit if we could pry him away.
Ermm… Let me back that up by saying I don’t in any sense believe that Kubel is the next David Ortiz, but jeez… He just had a great season for us, I don’t think he should go.
(I don’t remember who had the great article comparing the two seasons, but if anyone knows, they should definitely post that here to back me up haha).
Definitely shop Young. But I think they have to look hard at Cuddyer’s future with the team if he’s not willing to move to third. (Which may not be fair to pin on him, but that’s what I take from the post.)
I think Cabrera’s a decent option at the right price. He’s a versatile player, even at 34. And they desperately need at least one RH power arm in the bullpen. I suppose that depends on their confidence in Crain, which doesn’t seem to be particularly high.
As much as I like to watch Gomez once he gets on base, until he demonstrates some aptitude for getting on base regularly, I don’t see a “logjam” in the outfield. I guess it just baffles me as to why Smith, et al, would be so averse to opening the season with all 4 OFs and Kubel to split time among four positions. It’s not like any of them except Cuddyer is costing them any money to have around. I can almost guarantee that at some point during 2009, whether due to injuries or sophomore jinx striking Span and/or Gomez, they would regret letting one of those five players go.
What about Clint Barmes from the Rockies? Or Bill Hall from Brewers? There are many options. When you come down to it, The Twins are deep in young & cheap outfielders that are MLB ready & have upsides. They are deep in young & cheap starting pitching. Some such as Bonser & Humber are out of options. There WILL be trades from these surpluses & our short comings WILL be addressed. I’m very excited about next season. Have faith in our scouts & management. Go Twins. 
With a payroll of 55 mil. and the 20 mil. tightwad saved last year and a new stadium one year away, why would we have to give up anybody to get what we need? Is it that there is nobody available on the market, or is the cheapness just that ingrained in our collective psyche?
I like Garret Aitkins he hit 21 homers last year, he has experience yet is still young enough to play for a few more years than Cabera possibly could.
Not sure what his fielding is like, that would be important for a Gardy lead team! His walks to strike out ratio wasn’t that good though!
I have thought for some time that Bill Hall would be a great fit at 3B. Good against lefties and the Brewers are looking to move him. How about Hall for Guerrier or Crain?
NO Way we should deal for Kevin Kouzmanoff. The guy doesnt even belong in the majors. And he plays for the worst team in baseball. But Garret Atkins does play the twins style of baseball. But maybe try and package Harris and some minor leaguers for Egar Renteria.
I think we should sign Furcal. He would give us a huge upgrade at short and would allow us to platoon at 3rd with Buscher, Harris and Punto. As much as I hate to say it, Cuddy is the one that has to be traded if doesn’t want to switch to 3rd. Maybe for a quality bullpen arm or a starter to move perkins back to the pen
I hope the Twins don’t sign a free agent who will cost a first-round draft pick. Hudson and Cabrera fall into that class.
I don’t see the problem in acquiring Beltre as a one-year rental with Hughes and Valencia knocking on the door. Barring an injury, he would be a Type A free agent after 2009 and yield a couple of draft picks. So if the Twins only have to give up the equivalent to two draft picks plus a player for Beltre, it’s worth the cost.
It will be interesting to see whom they go after to bolster the relief corps. I like Juan Cruz as long as he’s just a Type B free agent. They can afford him as long as they let Reyes walk (also a Type B) and decline to tender Guerrier a contract, making him a free agent.
Nothing we did’nt already know.
You guys are crazy to talk about trading Cuddyer. He has a killer arm from right field. Look how many assists he has! And he stinks at 3rd base! He’s too good a hitter to let go. I’d rather say goodbye to Young. Kubel is lucky to have a good year and I doubt if he can repeat
La Velle, if the Twins signed Cabrera for a shortstop, would they forfeit a draft choice for doing so? Along those lines, have the Twins EVER lost a draft choice for a free-agent signing? I can’t remember it happening, and I’m 50. I’d love to see a breakdown of how many draft choices teams have lost in free-agent era for signings, since picks were given for compensation. Twins might be at zero.
I didn’t read this as Cuddyer not being the one on board with moving to 3rd. My immediate first reaction is that Gardy is not going to replace a sub par defensive 3B (Buscher) with another sub par defensive 3B (Cuddyer).
Young has to be the one who gets traded. He will bring back the best package. It will all work out even then, since our pitching surplus (Garza) should have been traded for a 3B anyways last year.
Kouzmanoff? No thanks.
Beltre? Nah.
Atkins? Nope.
Cabrera? Absolutely not!
Kouzmanoff had decent looking rate stats this year, but his 97 OPS+ isn’t attractive, and we don’t need anymore Gomez-esque on base skills.
Beltre for $12 million is just too much for an average offensive third baseman.
Atkins has bad home/road splits(.921 OPS home/.752 road)proving he’s greatly benefited from the hitting friendly confines of Coors Field.
And the list of free agent third basemen is slim.
Casey Blake LAD
Hank Blalock * TEX
Joe Crede CWS
Morgan Ensberg NYY
Chipper Jones * ATL
Greg Norton ATL
* - player whose contract includes 2009 option
Blake is too old, Blalock is only good at home and can’t stay healthy, Crede is aging and an injury risk, Ensberg is worthless, the Braves will likely pick up Jones’ option and wouldn’t sign with the Twins anyway, and Norton is nothing more than a bench player.
So the Twins will have to fill the hole at third via trade, but hopefully not with any of the names mentioned here.
I won’t begin to speculate who they could get, because I don’t know who they’re willing to give up and which teams would be involved. There aren’t many guys that I could see being available through a trade as the majority of MLB third basemen are young, talented, and several years from FA or else they’re over 30, an injury risk, or just not very good.
A guy they could maybe target is Jorge Cantu of the Marlins, or else Dallas McPherson. Either could be had for next to nothing in a trade. Cantu is almost three years from FA and coming off a good year, so Florida will likely hang onto him. But McPherson is a guy with an insane minor league track record that they could take a chance on. But his defense is spotty, he’s had injury problems, and he struck out 168 times in 448 ABs at AAA this past season. But on the other hand he could be acquired for a low level prospect and is four years from free agency.
I’m afraid the Twins will make another lopsided trade for another disappointing player.
Blake is not ‘old’ - 34, 35 in August is pretty good still (he’ll have a couple good years left at least in the field, some more at the plate); he’s got good pop - hits about 20 HR’s and drives in 80+ and bats .270 and has a nice glove (can also spell Morneau at 1st, who needed a major break down the stretch but never got one). he also shows he can hit what he’s capable of in the playoffs (unlike some of our ‘clutch’ hitters’)
I say if Cuddy can’t make the switch, sign this guy for a modest 3-4 mill for 2 years and you’ll be set. also, short needs to be addressed - I am not a huge fan of Cabrera, but if the guy has the balls to commend our team against his crap Sox team (who only made it cuz our hitters decided to take the last few games of the year off) and he might just like it here ad show off some good stuff. if he’s reasonable - 4-5 mill to come play for the Twinkies - sign him and you’ll have a nice veteran left side.
As for OF, Gomez seriously needs some time in AAA or the Arizona Fall League. He needs to work on his discipline; keep Span here (I’m a HUGE span fan), have Cuddy and Kubel platoon in right, and have Young stay (all you haters out there can go away - guy batted nearly .300, hit a few dongs including one against Rivera, and overall had a good year, yet you wanna trade the guy. If not, friggen start Harris because he earned it. He played well at SS last year (would lead the team in doubles if he had the chance) yet for some reason Gardy made him ride pine while ’sparky’ web gemmed and K’d with RISP the rest of the year.
Get one good righty for the bullpen (just one is all you need - neshek, even at 80% which is what I expect he’ll be for awhile next year, is still the best righty out of the pen besides Nathan). Breslow is the man, and Mijares is lightsout, we don’t need a lefty - might even move perk there if we can get another starter who won’t implode in the middle innings.
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I would like to see the Twins keep all the OFs. Considering both Gomez and Span will be coming off first years. DY is too young to give up on, Kubel looks like he might have some upswing to him and Cuddy won’t bring you much after being hurt last year.
I know LEN3 states that moving Casilla to SS isn’t an option but what about looking for a SS/2B in trade or FA 2B.
The three guys I would look at are
M. Young Tex or B. Roberts Balt. in trade and what about O. Hudson from AZ is a FA. All three would solve a problem.
The big key is the bullpen. Need to find more bullets. Mijenes looks like he has a future from the left. Need an 8th inning righty as well. Hoping that Neshek or Crain returns to quality isn’t a smart plan.
Current bullpen — Nathan, Mijares (L), Breslow(L),Crain(R),Neshek(R),and Boof leaves at least one really strong arm to add if not two.
Cuddyer to third, Young, GoGo, and Span in the outfield. Kubel DH. Just got get a shortstop with some pop in his bat. Is Greg Gagne still around? Just kidding!
I thought the most interesting thing Smith said was that he didn’t look at the stats of one of his players, but he thought he played better as the year went on. Did I really read that, or am I remembering wrong? The GM doesn’t look at the stats during the year?
The team has some great starting pitching, I hope they make an effort to get a 3B, SS, or corner OF with power. Most teams have a small window for success. Mauer and Morneau are legit great players, they just need one or two more pieces…
Humber and Bonser are trade bait. Cuddyer heeds to move to third. Blake is a good option. I like Atkins, he plays a great defensive third base and has right handed power. Beltre would be a nice addition but I wonder about his clubhouse presence. Humber and Bonser can also fill the bullpen role and with Mijares emerging as the 8th inning guy, it makes for some pretty good depth all of a sudden. I like Slama and Delaney and see that they could be pretty good options as call ups from Rochester for the bullpen. I like J.J. Hardy too, we should inquire about Micheal Young in Texas. Kubel has been our only effective DH since Ortiz left, don’t get rid of him. Young has too much potential to be the power bat from the right side to plant between Mauer and Morneau. He is probably better suited to play right field and Span is probably better for LF (more space in the metrodome) Cuddyer needs to play third base. Buscher /Cuddyer platoon is a good fall back option for 3rd base.
Trade Harris for anything. Average glove, average to below average bat, slow runner. I don’t see much upside.
That’s my 2 cents, ok maybe 25 cents.
Gee Scott..You won’t speculate who we should go after but you’ll sure tell us about who we shouldn’t? Take away those you;ve named and there isn’t anythig left. I find it hilarious that someone who watches a sport and “follows” it can sure tell us a lot about a player…Crede is injury prone…Wow…Uh…He missed time the last 2 years…Before that? He has a lot of pop in his bat..
The Marlins will NOT give up Cantu..The guy can hit..And McPhereson can only hit AAA ball and eve then strikes out a lot….So what is the upside? Because he can be gotten cheap and won’t be a FA for 4 years? Wow…really helps us…
Dear gentlepeople:
Who on the Twins is “untouchable” in any potential trade? Mauer?-yep. Morneau?-pretty close to yep, but if they were to, say for example, get Pujols straight up, then, no, Morneau is not untouchable.
Beyond those guys, who is untouchable? Really, are there any guys who would absolutely be beyond trading value-for-value?
Point being: Twins are contenders, but in a weak division. They have to get better this offseason. They cannot stand pat on this supposed motherlode of young,developing talent.
Offensively, Span and Casilla are promising, Young is an enigma, Gomez is a disaster, Kubel and Cuddy are interchangeable with a dozen other possible DH/OF combo players, and M and M are the two guys we build around. Defensively things have declined noticeably. Every infield position save for 1B and C is a question mark, with SS and 3B gaping holes. Cuddy’s injury problems create questions for RF, and Young in LF is unspeakable. We are stong in CF, C, and 1B, passable in RF, and questions or big problems everywhere else. Starting pitching looks solid, but pitchers are so fickle, especially young ones. Who knows who among these guys will continue to do well, and who has already peaked. I’d take my chances with Baker as #1, Liriano as #2, and hope that somebody else can breakthrough. Slowey is a good candidate, but what guarantee is there? Should the FO consider a FA starter to create competition and hedge against injury or a Boof-like meltdown amongst one or more of the young starters? Not a bad idea. The BP is a mess, but maybe Mijares will take hold there. I assume nothing else about the BP stability. That includes Nathan. Anybody else here a little nervous about his September? What gives? Tired? If so, then so much for the “use Nathan for 2-innings” argument.Will he recover for ‘09? Twins better hope so.
There are lots of questions for this team, and probably more holes than they can fill this offseason. The danger is assuming that because of 88 wins plus one tiebreaker game that they are closer to elite status than they really are. I think they are a ways away yet. They need to continue to build on their natural strengths, pitching and defense..if they find some RH power to help, great, but not at the expense of diminshing their strengths, as they did in sacrificing both pitching and defense for DY….if they hold onto him, he will need to show some positive development in 09 in the power department, and defensively, or they will really have a bust on their hands.
I like Atkins at 3B and Hardy at SS. All of you Atkins haters have to remember that the Twins are looking for a 3B that hits well against lefties, Atkins hit .400 agains tlefties last year, which was better thatn Beltre, who for some reason the Twins were high on. Also Atkins is a very good 3B defensively.
Scott, good post, lots of good information and opinions. I have a name I’d like to add to the 3B mix. How about Melvin Mora from the Orioles? He’s still productive and at his age he would be a good stop-gap until Valencia or Highrs are ready. Plus he’s a RH bat, something we really need. Of the 5 outfielders I hate to say this because I like him but I think the best trade option is Kubel. Here’s why…Cuddyer coming off his year is untradeable. Span and Gomez are very athletic, great defenders and base runners…Gardy’s kind of players. Irregardless of how Garza did in the playoffs the Twins simply shouldn’t trade Delmon Young. Too much potential. I think he will eventually be a DH because he’s awkward and clumsy in the OF and at 23 he won’t be getting any more athletic. I like the idea of Furcal at short but he might be too costly in both money and draft choices.
I don’t like Cabrera. I would like to see the Twins package Perkins and Kubel and maybe a minor league pitcher (Mulvey? Humber? Duensing?) to the Padres for Jake Peavy. Imagine Peavy and Liriano as a one-two punch at the top of the rotation. And if there’s one thing we’ve learned as baseball fans through the years…you win in the post season with POWER ARMS. Peavy is an ACE. And we have what it takes to outbid most other teams. He’s under contract for 3 more years.
Thoughts anyone?
Scott ~ Nice list. How ’bout Joe Crede at third base. He’s killed us in the past and, I think, would look pretty good in a Twins uni.
As for Neshek, once he gets healthy, you need to “move” him. With very slight exception, no one has proven they can be effective pitching the way he does for a long period of time. Too bad, but it might be time to move on.
Gomez gives me heart attack and I’m sure Gardy has had a couple. I say start him Rochester next year, and calm him down.
For such a young man, D. Young sure runs like an old man out there (no offense to old men intended). I’m too impatient and would find a new home for him too with some a middle reliever in return.
That’s it for now…the Hot Stove League has officially started…
Trade Cuddyer! He’s a decent player but he’ll never be a star. A career .268 hitter, he doesn’t bring enough to the team, either in current production or potential. Yes, he has a gun for an arm and gets a couple assists that the others can’t. But Young, Gomez and Span all have HUGE potential. Gomez and Span catch balls in the field that Cuddyer would never reach. I agree with Klein that Young has too much potential. Maybe they can’t get anything for Cuddyer because of his injuries, but we obviously need help on the left side of the infield.
Keep all 4 outfielders. Delmon needs to PROVE he is an everyday player. I haven’t seen it yet.
Cuddyer at 3B would be a big risk. He was very poor defensively there when he came up.
I live by Denver and see the Rockies a lot and as far as I can see Garrett Atkins would be a good pickup. He’s got decent power, hits for average, good RBI guy, is a OK fielding third baseman and can play first adequately as well.
Used to live by Seattle and saw Beltre quite a bit and he is on a downhill slope.
So maybe Garza was a hothead or unfriendly or wanted to do things his own way–does this mean the Twins lame front office and mgmt cannot tolerate a prideful, spirited player who believes in their talent & wants more to win more than to “fit in”?? Garza saying “I’m not coming out of this game” would land him in Gardenhire’s permanent doghouse and then inevitably to the trading block. Oh wait, that already happened.
“I would like to see the Twins package Perkins and Kubel and maybe a minor league pitcher (Mulvey? Humber? Duensing?) to the Padres for Jake Peavy.”
Peavy has a no trade clause. Pretty tough to convince him to come here. And I assume that package is way too light to even get the Padres to pick up the phone.
However - I would explore the idea of Kevin Kouzmanoff. While his numbers don’t look very good, I think it is mainly due to playing in PetCo Park. Look at his career splits - .243/.290/.390 at home and .282/.330/.488 on the road. He is a right handed hitter with 20 home run power, still under team control for a couple of years, and shouldn’t cost a lot in terms of players. The Padres should be looking to move with with Chase Headley ready to move into his spot. Also, if the Padres move Peavy, they may be looking for young, MLB ready pitching.
I say third base is a priority, Harris can play short, the Twins did fine with him there and Casilla at second. As far as outfielders go, they should be able to work out something with the players they have. Play Gomez a little less and let Cuddyer DH against left handers and spell Morneau at first, as well as spending time in right. Morneau needs more days off without being a DH. Another decent righty in the bullpen would be nice or keep Boof there. Not long until spring training again, it will be interesting to see what moves they make over the winter.
One more thing, don’t bring Punto back, someone else can handle his role next year at a cheaper price.
WEneed to keep Punto, don’t give up on Gomez he is young but makes things happen. He will mature, give him some time in the 8-9 hole and he will be fine. I’d give Buscher another yr., hes young and reliable. We keep bringing in Free agents and getting burned. Delmond has a different temperment and I think Gardy figured out how to handle him, I think he has too much potential to get rid of. All these 22-25 yr old guys could make huge strides in a yr. alot of allstars don’t even get to the bigs till they are that old. Need relief staff.
LEN, could you try to whisper the name of JJ Hardy in the front office’s ears? I’m all in with Skips Scramble, no in house or free agent SS options and Hardy is a stud who might be available at good cost.
[…] LaVelle mentions the Twins organizational meetings going on in Ft. Myers these days. He then discusses some topics […]
We need to intently/hotly pursue LaTroy Hawkins as a RH power arm for the BP. He even would welcome a return to MN. We need to consider getting creative this off season and improve this team, and I would strongly consider Mora of Baltimore, if MacPhail doesn’t ask too darn much.
Thank you…..****
would the twins consider dealing gomez and a guy like blackburn back to the mets for wright? i sure try.
you think gomez and blackburn would get the Twins david wright?? ha ha that’s a good one. It would take Mauer or Morneau or Liriano before the Mets would even think about it.
What about Edgar Renteria to play 3b and not shortstop. Sign Punto and leave Casilla where he’s at. That way you add the righthanded hitter you’re looking for (maybe less a little pop) and fill a big hole. Many shortstops have shifted to 3b in their later years ala Cal Ripken. Seems like a decent gamble. Then if you want sell high and trade Span to fill the other hole you think needs filling (bullpen)and just expect that in two years Revere will be the same type player and you can go with what you have now. Just a thought
Nothing like the opening of the Hot Stove League. This is a time to dream, but I am going to try to stay realistic to what I think the team will do because of its self imposed budget restrictions.
We all know that Gardy loves Punto (remember that this wouldn’t even be an issue had Smith not traded Bartlett) and therefore let’s assume that not only will they bring him back, but he is likely to be Gardy’s starting shortstop (backed up by Tolbert and Harris). We also know that Bill Smith got fleeced in both big trades last winter and will be hoping to correct those mistakes.
All that being said, we have identified the need for a righthanded power arm in the bull pen and for a power hitting 3rd baseman. To me, Atkins is the guy that makes the most sense. He is under 30, plays excellent defense, and hits for a good average with good power (something we desperately need). Beltre is tempting, but the price Seattle has been asking has been very high for a guy we will only have for one year.
We have pitching to trade (who doesn’t need arms?!) and we should move Delmon. For those of you who continue to make the “potential argument” for Delmon, I have two questions. One, for how many years will you make that argument if this is basically who Delmon is (a surly, first pitch swinging terrible outfielder with little power and a penchant for bringing rallies to a screeching halt with his absurd idea of the strike zone)? Two, if Delmon’s is all about his potential, then when will his trade value ever be higher?
It isn’t bad enough that we lost Bartlett and Garza. We also got stuck with this lemon (Delmon) and all of his “potential”. Bring in Garrett Atkins to play 3rd base and bat between the M&Ms.
Hey Medschoolmatt,
I like your thinking. I think Casey Blake would be a great fit here and can fill the two-year gap while our 3B prospects get major-league ready.
Not sure about Cabrera, his reputation is suspect at best and one thing I like about our organization is they put guys on the field that you WANT to cheer for (unlike the police blotter the Vikes put on the field every year). Don’t know who our best option is at SS yet, but it does need to improve. I like Punto, but in a utility role.
I wasn’t the biggest Delmon fan, but I think he has so much upside that we have to give it some more time.
Anyway, ya gotta love baseball’s off season - so much to talk about and speculate and the funny thing is, the most talent doesn’t always bring championships - look at what we did this year with a very young and “rebuilding” squad. Sometimes chemistry is more important than talent (but a 30HR shortstop wouldn’t hurt!)
Go Twins!!
I hate to suggest a position switch, but is it unreasonable to think the team might move an established player to 3B and trade for a first baseman, which might be easier to do? Shocking to suggest, but since Boston put Youkilis at 3B, I was wondering what a certain Canadian guy would think about at least trying 3B out. Or a catcher.
Worst. Trade. Ever.
To me it doesn’t really make sense to get rid of Cuddyer or move him to third. The big complaint about the Twins has been lack of power from “power positions”. If you get rid of Cuddyer and keep Span in right, you’re immediately back to having no power in right field. If you move Cuddyer to 3rd, it improves the power numbers from 3B, but again removes most of the HRs from the right field position. Unfortunately, if someone HAS to go, I think it has to be Span or Gomez, but I’d rather keep them and try work them all in and have some insurance in case of an injury.
Keep Delmon - he’s going to be good I just have that feeling.
If you’re going to trade someone -I say Span, you’ll get more for Span and I don’t think he’s as good as everyone made him out to be
Thanks to everyone who takes time to share their opinions, it makes for great reading!
There is a reason Jason Bartlett is considered the Rays MVP, it is because he was a significant upgrade over Brandon Harris at SS in 2007. This is despite Harris having better offensive numbers in 2007 than Bartlett has in 2008. So those of you who think Harris can play SS full time in 2009 think again, the Rays dumped him for Bartlett, and Gardy prefers him playing partime at 3B. The reason? No range at SS.
Let’s get off the Cuddyer to 3B bandwagon, Gardy won’t play him there and Cuddy doesn’t want to play there. His 3B glove is weak and he hits better when he plays in the outfield, which isn’t often. While trading Cuddy is probably the best move to break-up the outfield log jam, it isn’t likely, he won’t bring much of anything back due to his injuries.
Trading Young will bring us the most in return, but I don’t think Big Bill wants to look bad by trading Del right away, especially with the success Matt and Jason are having with the Rays.
Gomez had a better September than Span. Span only played three months of the season. Did great in July, but his production tailed off a bit in August and September.
I like Span. I think he’s a good outfielder. But he’s still a corner outfielder with no power. This also describes Delmon, who everyone wants to get rid of. Why Delmon and not Span? At least Delmon has the potential to hit 20+ home runs.
Frankly, I think the jury should still be out on Span (as it should be on Gomez and Young). It’s almost the same situation the Twins had with all the young pitchers - which ones will pan out? Who do you keep and who do you trade? A year ago I would have said definately keep Boof and trade Blackburn or Perkins.
Which outfielder do you want to gamble on?
KP,
I am oddly intrigued by your Big Canadian to third suggestion… I think he would probably be able to pull it off… Hmmm… Doubt it will happen, but it’s very interesting…
Here’s the comparison between Jason Kubel in 2008 and David Ortiz in 2002 (his last year with Minnesota):
Ortiz 2002:
G:125, AB:412, H:112, 2B:32, HR:20, RBI:75, BA:.272, SLG:.500
Kubel 2008:
G:141, AB:463, H:126, 2B:22, HR:20, RBI:78, BA:.272, SLG:.471
You do not want Bill Hall in a Twins uniform, he is a nice player, but that is it….he has peaked and pouts when he doesn’t play. If we sign him then we be complaining about him like we did with Craig Monroe.
The Brewers need pitching since they are going to lose Ben Sheets and CC Sabathia. Their relief pitching totally blows. Any trade with them will require the Twins to give up a young arm. Any trade with Milwaukee should be made from a position of strength because as unbelievable as it sounds, the Brewers need pitching more than we need a 3B.
I would have to agree with the possibility of trading Span. He has great range and a good leadoff hitter, and i would think would be a great trading chip because a lot of teams are looking for a cf like that. Gardy really likes Gomez, so I never seeing Span replacing him in cf and I would agree. So, Span would have to stick to a corner outfielder spot and he does not fit that spot offensively. I would like to see Young/Gomez/Cuddyer in the outfield with Kubel used as the fourth outfielder with Pridie and Jones in AAA for any injuries.
I would like to see Atkins added for 3B and then you could look at Harris/Tolbert at short(possibly Punto).
lineup
Casilla-2B
Mauer-C
Atkins-3B
Morneau-1B
Cuddyer-RF
Kubel-DH
Young-LF
Harris/Tolbert-SS
Gomez-CF
bench
redmond-C
buscher-1B,3B,DH
tolbert/harris-2B,SS,3B
That leaves open a bench spot or two.
KP & JMP,
Morneau and Mauer are the two best athletes on the team. I think either would be a great third baseman. Morneau is the 3rd string catcher as well.
Unbelievable. Everyone is missing the obvious.
Signing a third baseman will do absolutely no good if the Twins do not address the bullpen problems. The bullpen was worth at least 10 losses this year, due to blown leads.
Mijares looks like he might be an oustanding compliment to Pat Neshek.
Bonser looks like he might just make a good long relief guy.
One more good power right handed pitcher in the bullpen and the discussion about third base becomes academic.
Btw, anyone ever consider that Delmon Young might actually have decent speed in the outfield? However, considering how fast Gomez and Span are, he looks rather slow by comparison.
Yeah, let’s trade Span who did nothing but get on base and make great plays in the outfield after he got called up. As good as Gomez is in the field, he is still years away from contributing at the plate, and he may be a career .330 on base guy, not a top of the order hitter. If we keep Span in center, we lose very little defensively but get a great leadoff hitter.
Blake,
Delmon also had that bad ankle for most of the year. He seemed tentative moving around in the outfield, especially when he didn’t have to run too far for a ball. Ankle sprains can be tough. I sprained an ankle in 1995 and it still bothers me on occasion forcing me to walk with a slight limp on really bad days.
With Span though he was good this year, but he does not have the track record in the minors (AA and AAA) to back up this year. Gomez also has a much higher upside than Span, and this could of have been Span’s best year.
Jake,
Actually, I don’t want to trade any of the outfielders, especially if it trading one of the young guys to clear a spot for Cuddyer. Gardy started last year with Kubel and Craig Monroe. He can do the same next year with Kubel and Cuddyer.
Rob, I can tell you a lot about the names that have already been mentioned, and none of them are attractive. Beyond that, I won’t speculate because you start getting into scenarios that would never happen.
And I never said Crede was injury “prone,” I said he was an injury RISK, which is true. He’ll be 31 to start next season, and he’s missed 180 games the past two seasons. I’d call that an injury risk. He’s definitely not a long-term solution at third.
In regards to Cantu, I did finish with saying that “Florida will likely hang onto him.” As for McPherson I also mentioned his downside, which is striking out a lot and poor defense. So I presented both sides with the attraction being his track record as a big hitter.
Please read the entire post next time.
Medschool matt, Blake will turn 36 next season. That’s old for someone who needs to be a long-term solution at third. Maybe if they think Valencia or Hughes will work out you bring him on for one year, but a guy who’s 35 is considered old.
for a first year player. His discipline got better as the season went on. He made improvement and found the right side of the field with his bat more often than Torri Hunter did in his 10th season. A year in the minors will do the guy absolutely NO GOOD!. He is well ahead of Hunter at this stage. He is a major leaguer. As for Cuddyer, there are a lot of Cuddyer’s in the league (with the bat) and Span is easily his equal in the outfield, in fact Span covers more ground. Cuddyer is the guy to go if he doesn’t move to 3b. Give Delmon Young a chance. He is ahead of a lot of Twins’ hitters at his age. So what he is unorthadox in the outfield. It’s all about the end result. If we trade him, we’ll regret it. He’ll drive in more runs, run better, and hit for more power than Cuddyer as soon as next year. And it will get better each year. For a young hitter, he uses the field and still has good power. As for Kubel, I like the strides he made this year. The guy was finally healthy. 25-28 homers is not out of the question next year.
As for the middle infield, why not take another shot at Cano from the Yankee’s and move Casilla to short. Cano got sent down this season, so he must be in the doghouse. A young pitcher and Crain or someone might do it.
Twins Fans:
Let’s look at our situations and try to be reasonable.
First of all I have observed Denard over the last few years. His first season with the Red Wings was mixed lousy first half - good second half. Then he had lasix surgery last winter and has been a different player since. He is a very good leadoff hitter with a lot of patience, drives the ball occasionally and plays a great outfield. We keep him.
Carlos Gomez should have started last year with the Red Wings and it was apparent that his interpretation of the strike zone (especially outer half) does not coincide with the major league umpiring staff. He is an excellent outfielder, but he needs 1-2 months in AAA to really learn the strike zone and how to harness all of his immense talent.
Delmon Young - I did not like him at the season start and I never thought that he showed much when he came here when he was with the Durham Bulls. BUT let’s face it - he was very good at the plate over the second half of the season and he is only 23!! he is a keeper and the power will come.
Third Base - Let’s go out and get Atkins from the Rockies. He is a fine fielder and dynamite against lefties.
We do have a fair amount of pitching surplus to deal so let’s do it. I fear that Bill Smith is going to be gunshy after the Garza trade, but the Twins cannot go into next season without upgrades at 3rd or the bullpen.
WE LOVE THE TWINS IN ROCHESTER!!
The Twins seem to keep guys in the minors until they prove they can handle the Majors defensively. The only thing sending Gomez to AAA could accomplish would be to help his confidence going against minor league pitching. But I don’t think he lacks confidence. Would it improve his plate discipline? I doubt it. You think Carlos is going to be more patient against AAA pitching than he was against major league pitching?
Put me in the Camp to go get a middle infielder and let it ride with what we have at 3rd. I don’t see any reasonable upgrades from a likely affordable standpoint.
I think Casilla can play short if you find a 2nd baseman with some RH Pop, that’s likely a much more affordable option than trying to aquire a 3rd Baseman. We have 7 starting pithcers (Humber and Bonser) We’ll have to carry so if were going to try to move some talent, I think that’s the place to do so. I think trading away one of the starting 5 and going with Humber/Boof until one of them wins the 5th spot or someone emerges from the minors to take it is the way to go.
Look no further…..The Twins already have a 3rd baseman. His name is Brian Buscher. He will come back again much improved and show the team he CAN hit
lefties.
MC,
I am fine with either 1) getting a power-hitting SS and letting it ride at 3B with Buscher, or 2) getting a power-hitting 3B and letting it ride at SS with Harris/Tolbert (Punto is as good as gone via free agency).
I think we should trade Span for what we need, which is left side infielders. Spans value will never be higher and I think he is very expendable. We have enough outfielders for now and we have young ones for the future also. Span did a great job leading off for 3 months, but i’m not convinced he’s the man for the future. His value is high now, deal while the dealing is good for him.
If I was a team needing a CF, I would only be willing to give up prospects or Buscher/Harris-type players for Denard Span.
Young cost the Twins a potential top of the rotation pitcher to acquire and while he didn’t put up the HRs we’d like to have seen, his overall offensive production wasn’t shabby, especially over the second half of the season. I see no way the Twins deal him unless it’s to get a top of the rotation pitcher or a middle of the order hitter who will hit consistently for power and fill a current hole defensively.
In either case, it would also need to be a player that figures to be a long-term member of the organization.
I’m not saying it couldn’t happen, but when you apply that set of criteria, the options narrow considerably.
I guess I would also think that it would take a similar return in order to pry Gomez or Span away from the Twins.
I still like the idea of signing Blake for a year or two (at most). Forget Beltre… he’d be a Twin for one year only (Boras client) and one year of Beltre is not worth whatever Seattle’s FO is likely to demand for him. Blake would cost nothing in trade and less money.
it would be a disgrace if carlos gomez does not start in center field for us next year…he may be eratic at times but the team feeds off his ENERGY…and so do the fans…for every steady joe mauer you need a crazy carlos gomez…GO-GO
How about a package of Span and Perkins or Blackburn to Cubbies for Ramirez. Cubs need left handed hitting outfielder.
The Twins should trade the of they can get the most for. My 1st choice to trade would be Kubel. No speed and has not shown he can hit lefthanders. Also no range in the outfield.
Trading Kubel makes no sense. Third best hitter on team and he is our DH. Who else do we have to DH without them complaining about not playing in the field.
I like Kubel, but he is very one demintional.
Get some righthanded protection in the lineup and we have 3 great lefthanded hitters.
Trade Cuddy and Kubel and bring back Tyner…. You could get a 3rd baseman like washed up Beltre
To me Cuddy isnt protection, nice piece to have batting 6 or 7th in lineup. Go get Ramirez from Cubbies and we have a stud in between mauer and mourneau. i think he is available for the right price. Mauer, Ramirez, Mourneau, Young, Kubel and then Cuddyer, now there’s a good middle of the lineup. Sprinkle in Gomez, Casilla in front of that and Punto batting 9th and you got a lineup.
Gomez doesn’t have any business at the top of a lineup.
Fine, lead off with Casilla with Mauer hitting 2nd back of lineup with Gomez and Punto, still a good lineup.
Package deal of Kubel, Span and Boof for washed up Beltre.
Beltre is a one year fix. Ramirez is signed for a few more years.
Get Casey Blake for a year until Valencia is ready.
Blake will get more then 1 year on free agent market.
I would offer Perkins and or Boof to the Brewers for JJ Hardy. He’s a good young short stop with power and the Brewers have a young stud SS they want to bring up. Then I would take a flyer on Crede to play 3rd Base and if he fails, fall back to Buchser and Harris, let Punto go and have Harris filling the Utility role wiith Tolbert. Move some of the minor league arms for relievers or pick up a free agent reliever. Keep the 4 OF with Span in LF,Gomez in CF and Young in RF, Cuddy and Kubel split time at DH and rest the OF and 1ts Base. Move Humber into Perkins role in the rotation.
David,
I agree-been saying the Twins should go after Hardy for awhile now.
Crede not so much since he can’t stay healthy.
Artificial turf and Crede’s back problems do not mix.
Sounds like Padres are shopping Peavy and Greene. How about Cuddy, Humber, Harris and a minor league pitcher (Duensing possibly) for those two. That would give us an everyday SS and a #1 starter. We could then move Perkins or Blackburn to the pen.
Bill Smith Jr. LOL junk for an ace gooooooood luck. Oh yah, don’t let the door hit you on the way out.
a good guess is that won’t come close to getting peavy.
maybe a buff/humber + duensing or = + span/young for kouzmanoff and green.
buying green low after a poor yr and kouz has very good #’s away from petco and a better fielder then buscher, would be adding 30-35 hr’s.
pad’s can move headley back to 3b where he belongs, fill an of spot and add some pitching they need especially if they trade peavy.
Ok,Ok. Bad trade, but you get my point. Getting Peavy and Greene would be a huge upgrade, so maybe Delmon, Blackburn,and Duensing, and Boof. All players still young and with plenty of “potential”.
Baker or Slowey + Young and Kubel for peavy and Greene
What’s the urgency for a shortstop? I honestly think Punto could be adequate, nad I’ve been as outspoken about his play as anyone.
What’s the urgency for a shortstop? I honestly think Punto could be adequate, and I’ve been as outspoken about his play as anyone.
We were discussing getting more power on the left side of the infield by adding a shortstop OR third baseman.
Do we get any draft picks when another team signs Punto?
no draft picks for Punto he is not a type A or B free agent
Peavy’s afraid he won’t be as effective in the AL and he’s not going to waive his no-trade clause to allow a trade to the NL. Unless someone has information indicating the Twins are changing leagues in 2009, the Peavy talk is pointless.
Sorry… obviously meant “…he’s not going to waive his no-trade clause to allow a trade to the AL.”
I know Crede has back problems, but if you can get him cheap for 1 year until the guys in the minors are ready than it’s worth a shop as long as we got Hardy, his numbers are very good. Here is why I take a 1 year flyer on Crede 97 games last year 17HR 55 RBI’s I know he gets hurt But when is the last time we got 17Hr and 55 RBI out of our thirdbaseman in a full year!
I meant ” worth a shot”
I think we should go after Crede(if his back heals) or Blake for third. Package Cuddy and Slowey and whatever prospect it takes to pry Hardy out of Milwaukee. Young, Gomez and Span make up the best outfield around, no way would I trade any of them. Kubel can stay as DH.
Twins are contenders, but in a weak division.
here are the annual winning percentage records in AL Central, minus that of the Twins (in parenthesis the Twins’ finish)… More accurate representation would be that “The Twins cannot win the Division, unless it is weak”:
2002 0.421 (1)
2003 0.432 (1)
2004 0.452 (1)
2005 0.492 (3)
2006 0.502 (1)
2007 0.502 (3)
2008 0.492 (2)
Offensively, Span and Casilla are promising, Young is an enigma
Casilla: .281/.333/.374 (”promising”)
Young: .290/.336/.405 (”enigma”)
We need to keep Punto
After Ellis singed a 2-year / $11 mil contract, the chances of keeping Punto at a reasonable price are close to zero.
As far as what I would like to see:
* Trade Perkins, Buscher and a prospect (like Dustin Martin) for a 3rd baseman. My preferred order of potential targets: Glaus, Wiggington, Rolen, Beltre
* Trade Boof to the Padres for Khalil Greene (might need to add Plouffe to the deal)
* Trade Casilla, Duensing, Humber and Sergio Santos to the Marlins for Dan Uggla
* Sign Pedro Martinez or Jamie Moyer as a veteran starter
* Let the bullpen alone and let it play out in Spring Training
* Let the outfield/DH situation alone; it will work out. There are 5 people for 5 positions if you include bench OF.
Trading for Peavy would be a mistake for any club without a vast park. Peavy’s splits outside Petco field: 4.28 ERA and 1.436 WHIP, in the lesser league… He would be a number 5 starter for the Twins with those numbers (Blackie’s numbers for comparison: 4.05 ERA, 1.360 WHIP; and he is almost free for a couple of years)
“Trading for Peavy would be a mistake for any club without a vast park. Peavy’s splits outside Petco field: 4.28 ERA and 1.436 WHIP, in the lesser league… He would be a number 5 starter for the Twins with those numbers (Blackie’s numbers for comparison: 4.05 ERA, 1.360 WHIP; and he is almost free for a couple of years)”
While it is true that Peavy benefits from playing in PetCo, there is more to it than what you are posting.
For example, let’s look at his 2007 splits. His away numbers that year were a 2.57 ERA with a 1.09 WHIP. That’s best pitcher in the league territory, not a number 5 starter.
I wouldn’t deal for Peavy, just because I think he’s gonna get paid big money, and I don’t like spending big money on pitchers. But to think you aren’t going to get an ace for your staff is kinda foolish. Peavy is one of the top pitchers in the game.
My hunch is that neither Beltre or Blake represents enough of an upgrade over a platoon of Buscher/Harris to justify them. My dream would be a trade for Michael Young. Texas is perennially dimwitted about pitching and they might make yet another bad trade for pitching. A chance for Bill Smith to recover from the Garza/Bartlett trade?
To anyone saying that they think the Twins should go get Hardy from the Brewers, please don’t open your mouth again; you only make yourself look like a total idiot, for that will NEVER happen. Why? Because the Brewers have no interest in trading him than our entire starting pitching staff! The guy makes $400 grand a year and he’s a stud. It won’t happen, so save your breath.
As for the outfield, Delmon needs to go. Kubel shouldn’t even be considered, as he is one of the better #6 hitters in the league. (Yep, he’s a #6 hitter when Cuddyer is healthy. And, he might be a #7 hitter if we acquire a good third baseman, so…)
And counting on Neshek is foolish. He wasn’t any good when he got hurt and he’ll be even less effective when he comes back. Go get someone, for a change.
Lala72,
Living here in WI and gettting to hear about the Brewer more than I care to and the word do here is the Brewers looking to move Hardy because the have a young phenom in Alcides Escobar that they want to play at SS and considering that they will lose both Sheets and CC it is not such a reach that the Twins could not get Hardy for Perkins or Slowey or Blackburn and Boof and maybe a low propspect. I for 1 would not trade Blackburn after his last start and I would be less likly to deal Slowey than Perkins. The Brewers are in dire need of pitching so do not be surprised if the move Hardy.
The Brewers are in the same place the Twins where in when we traded AJ, good young player waiting to take his place and get good returns on the trade.
re: Hardy:
my prediction is that he and Fielder to the Giants for Cain (with other players added to the package)
We’ll see…
Best trade bait: Cuddyer.
Why?
1=Big salary (for the Twins); 2-However, he’s locked in for awhile; 3-Has no place in the now-speedy outfield; 4-Has good marketability (now, before he earns the tag “injury-prone”; and 5-Our biggest need can be met — the bullpen … I bet we could land a couple good set-up man caliber relievers.
Forget any infield moves — we are rich in versatile, young talent.
And puh-leez — stop with the Kubel talk. Other than Mauer, he’s been the most consistent hitter in the middle of the line-up. If tyhey’d actually let him play every game — against righties AND lefties — he’ll end the year at .290, with 35 HRs and 115+ RBIs.
Bottom line: Deal Cuddy while the irons medium-hot — no other moves are necessary.
3b is not the problem! Buscher is not a star but he did he .294 with 47 RBI’s in 218 AB’s. I know… at best he’s below average defensively. Hughes, Punto and Harris can make 3B work. The BP is where they need help. A quality arm in the BP is a requirement for 2009.
only trade Delmon if we can get a Matt Cain type of player. He will be a good player for awhile. 3b is a problem, Buscher might be a decent hitter but is not even a decent fielder. I like the idea of A Ramirez at 3B and I believe we could trade for Hardy. An infield of Morneau,Casilla,Hardy, and Ramirez would be incredible.
Do. Not. Trade. Young. He had a rough sophomore year, but so did Morneau and Mauer I believe.
Dealing Span or Gomez may be the way to go. It’d suck to see Gomez go so soon after getting here, but the Twins aquired him because Span didn’t do anything in 2007. Then he blew up in 2008. Span will come back down to Earth, but I can’t imagine it’ll be a huge drop off in 2009.
Cuddyer wouldn’t have any value due to injury concerns, and I still think he brings more to the table powerwise than Span. An OF of Young/Span/Cuddyer (provided Cuddyer is 100%) is fine with me.
But I get this feeling if the Twins hit the market with a spare OF, the one everybody’s going to want is Span. And after how hard it was to find a good lead off man after Stewart had to be shut down…I’d hate to see them deal him so soon after discovering him.
While Beltre being a “Boras Guy” is a problem, the Twins have Gomez, who is also a Boras guy. I agree there’s concerns since Beltre would be in a contract year, but that could also work in the Twins favor when it comes time to deal.
And while it doesn’t guarantee that Beltre won’t be back in 2010, it does guarantee that he would NOT sign a new contract mid season if things work out.
for those of you wanting to trade Slowey - I think you’re all nuts!
After Baker he’s one of our best pitchers
SPAN = FLASH in the pan
Jamie Moyer will retire after Philly wins the WS =p
Span is not a flash in the pan. It was obvious that he finally LEARNED how to be a good major leaguer. His at bats were some of the best on the team. The only guy that covers more ground in the outfield is Gomez. Span needs to be a centerpiece of the team.
Slowey is the starter to trade. He’s a finesse pitcher. We already have one of those in Baker. He’d bring back the biggest haul and we can replae him the easiest.
ANDY LAROCHE
*cheap buy low opportunity
*Dodgers seem to inexplicably dislike him
Dazzle Man, Andy LaRoce was traded to Pittsburgh in the Manny deal.
This is part of what has been going one here in Fort Myers. From a Miracle press release —
MINNESOTA TWINS PROMOTE MIRACLE PITCHING COACH
Mintz to replace Rasmussen on 2009 Miracle staff
FORT MYERS, FL (October 22, 2008) — The Minnesota Twins announced today 2009 coaching staff assignments for the Fort Myers Miracle. The Twins named Steve Mintz as pitching coach to replace Eric Rasmussen who has been elevated to Twins Minor League Pitching Coordinator. Mintz will join the rest of the returning staff of Jeff Smith (manager), Jim Dwyer (hitting coach) and Larry Bennese (trainer).
Rasmussen, a resident of Cape Coral, Florida, spent the last 10 years as the Miracle’s pitching coach. The former major leaguer has been vital to the development of the Twins’ prospects. The entire 2008 starting rotation for the Twins, all pitched for Rasmussen in Fort Myers. The 2008 Miracle pitching staff compiled the top ERA (3.51) in the Florida State League and the most strikeouts (1,001). Pitcher Anthony Slama was named to the post-season Florida State League team.
“Raz moving up in the system is a big honor for him. He has great character, knowledge and ability to work with pitchers that he will do a great job,” said Miracle Manager Jeff Smith.
Rasmussen will take over for Rick Knapp who was named Detroit Tigers pitching coach last week.
“I appreciate this opportunity from the Twins and look forward to continuing to develop our arms in the system. I’ve enjoyed my time with the Miracle and I won’t be a stranger around the park,” said Rasmussen.
Steve Mintz will be the only new face in the Hammond Stadium dugout. Mintz recently completed his first year in New Britain (AA). The 39-year old Mintz worked with Smith in Beloit (A) during the 2006 and 2007 seasons.
“Steve has been in the Twins system for awhile (Mintz was pitching coach with GCL Twins (2002-05) and brings lots of experience to the table. He has knowledge of our pitchers and what it takes to continue their development to the big leagues,” said Smith.
Smith, fresh off a West Division Championship in his first year in Fort Myers, is excited to return to Hammond Stadium.
“We had a fun season last year. We were able to develop guys and move them up and we kept winning which made the season even more enjoyable,” said Smith.
The Naples, Florida native has compiled a 230-184 record in his three years as a manger in the Twins’ system. Smith has piloted Beloit (06-07) and Fort Myers (2008) to the playoffs in all three years at the helm. He was named to the post-season Florida State League team as a coach in 2008.
Dwyer will return for his fourth season directing the Miracle hitters, while 2009 will mark the 11th year for Bennese in Fort Myers.
“There are some exciting young players in Beloit that we may see this upcoming year. I am sure it will be another exciting year in Fort Myers and can’t wait to get going,” said Smith.
The Miracle opens the 2009 Florida State League season on April 9.
Copyright © Miracle Professional Baseball, All right reserved.
Visit us online at http://www.miraclebaseball.com
Dazzle Man, Andy LaRoce was traded to Pittsburgh in the Manny deal.
Facts be damned, let’s deal Punto and Reyes to the Dodgers for LaRoche.
If we could get LaRoche from the Dodgers for those 2 lets do it, even if Pitt will not send him to us.
delmon and kubel should stay.
try moving cuddy to 3rd. if that does not work. ship cuddy and a pitcher out for a SS or 2nd baseman or 3rd baseman.
if the sox sign tex. then we should get in the running for lowell.. he is owed $24M the next 2 seasons.. but we should be able to get him pretty cheap..
how about brian roberts? baltimore could use pitching. micheal young from texas? pitching could be needed there as well
any thoughts?
I agree with T, Beltre is a decent option at 3B. I do not think we should trade Slowey, he might be a finesse but he also is very good. If we trade a pitcher it has to be Perkins.
package deal DY and Kubel and pick up a real good DH for the 2 of them like washed up Beltre
Toby Gardenhire for Khlil Greene and see if Gardy accepts this or if the Twins have a bit of nepatism in the club house
t do you think we could get laroche and manny if we threw in everett and lamb?
ggg Only if we added Toby Gardenhire to the deal
if the red sox are serious about teixera (and they probably are after losing manny and papi’s downturn), mike lowell could be an attractive option for 3B. he wouldn’t be expensive prospect wise, as the sox would probably just want to unload his contract. so it would cost the twins a minor prospect or 2 and covering the 2 years/25 million owed. seems a lot better than trading 2 or 3 good young players to the M’s for 1 year of beltre.
Mike Lowell WOULD have been an attractive 3B option. But the guy has shown his age recently.
I doubt he’d make it to the new stadium, or at least…in any condition where we’d WANT him in the new stadium.
If the Twins are going to deal, it needs to be for a guy that they could see fitting in the picture for the next 2-3 years.
No great options for 3B out there (No way for Beltre) so if it’s possible and I think it is, get Atkins and then Hardy to play SS. Solid infield and not just for one year.
I’ve lived out of state for 15 yrs, long time Twins fan who really enjoyed 08 on the MLB TV Pkg. (best $200 I’ve spent in along time!) Looking forward to 09 and maybe by 2010 I’ll move back to TC when all the stars could line up for not only Twins but Gopher’s Football and Basketball…
A lot of bad suggestions on here. Andy Laroche? I think we’re looking at a huge bust. And why can’t people realize that playing 81 games a year at Coors Field has grossly inflated Atkins’ numbers? He’s below average offensively on the road for his career.
And Mike Lowell? I agree with T. He would have been an attractive option about three years ago when he was a FA when instead we did nothing to address 3B.
As for Buscher, I think the Twins are thinking they need a bigger bat at third, and a right handed one. Buscher was average overall last season, which is fine, but I think he’d be better coming off the bench as a left-handed pinch hitter.
There are really very few options for a third baseman out there. The few free agents available are not good options. Any 3B you can actually make a case for via trade won’t be available. Two I would explore trade possiblities for would be Glaus or Wigginton. For some reason Wigginton was platooned with Geoff Blum last season in Houston, only getting something like 380 ABs but hitting 23 homers with an .876 OPS. So maybe Houston would be willing to deal. Glaus is a little more difficult. He’s only signed with St. Louis for ‘09 at $11.25 million. He is 32, but barring injury, you know you’ll get great production out of him. But I don’t know that the Cards would be willing to deal him.
And personally I think the Twins are putting too much hope into Hughes and/or Valenica. With Valencia you have a 24 year old possibly starting 2009 in AA. His numbers aren’t overwhelming, but he’s been consistent. He would really need to fast track it to be ready in 2010. Huges is also 24, but his numbers are extremely disappointing. A .745 OPS through six minor league seasons is not impressive for a third baseman. He had one really good season in AA, but he would really need to impress at Rochester next season to be a viable option. People are talking as if one of those two will be a sure thing, but both are far from it. Valencia definitely has more promise, but it’s very possible neither one pans out.
So I think they need to find a player they can at least have for two years and see if one of those two guys is ready by then. Otherwise they’ll be looking to fill third again.
I think the Twins should push for a salary cap on major league players. The players are far too over-paid, which turns alot of people off to baseball. I would like to see the cap put at $950,000.00 per year per player. I would also like to see free-agency removed and the requirement for a player to stay with the original team that he is selected by. The current system favors the wealthier teams and the players for those teams in larger makerts. No trades should be allowed because it also distorts fairness. It would make for a much more interesting season and teams would complete according to their teams’s skills and their coaching staff’s abilities. In such a scenario, the Twins would be in the World Series almost every year.
“But there’s no way they want to enter 2009 with four outfielders and Jason Kubel locked in as the DH. . . . If the Twins don’t want to admit to it in print, so be it.”
So, reading between the lines, we can assume that Twins officials have admitted to it “off the record?”
I believe we need to talk to the Nationals and find out what it would take to get Zimmerman. He would balance our lineup (right handed and high OPS against lefties)and I am sure they would like some of our pitching. The Delmon Young trade came out of nowhere and I hope Smith is creative enough to get something done with the Nationals. Who knows maybe they would dump Guzman if we take his salary.
[…] by admin as News http://blogs2.startribune.com/blogs/neal/2008/10/21/whats-going-on-in-florida/ La Velle E. Neal III: And I haven’t even gotten to the oufield logjam, if they keep Cuddyer […]
I am no expert…but I do know the Rockies and Twins are a perfect match for a trade. They have been for a couple years now.
I would target Atkins and Barmes. Barmes was a damn good SS before he got hurt. He played well last year once Tulo and other injuries hit. This guy can play SS and his value isn’t real high.
Atikins is a very good hitter. He doesn’t have overwhelming power, but he has great swing.
Atkins/Barmes
for something like
Span and Perkins
I don’t know enough details, but a package in that area sounds about right. Rockies need some additional pitching and they want to cut salary with Atkins and/or Holiday. They have Atkins replacement already. Span is good and cheap for a while.
Also, Gomez really played well at the end of last year. I think ultimately he is better than Span and it isn’t even close long term. IMO
ATTENTION EVERYONE EVERYWHERE: THE TWINS WILL NOT (AND SHOULD NOT) TRADE DENARD SPAN!!!
Thank you for your attention. You may resume making theoretical trades.
*The statement above is, of course, void if the players in return are of an unbelievable calibur. i.e. Pujols,
A-Rod, Hamilton, etc. (But don’t expect those kind of players to be offered to us).
I’d like to see Cuddyer get a shot at 3B. The guy was drafted as a SS so he can’t be that bad as as infielder ( he did have lots of errors in the minors). We made a third baseman out of Koskie and our coaches can do it again with Cuddyer. LIke the idea of Joe Crede or Casey Blake even with the move of Cuddyer to 3B. All RH options which we really needed last year. Atkins if the price is right.
JJ Hardy would be a good fit at SS.. HArris or Tolbert as the backups. Like Punto a lot but he is not a regular. Nice season this year though.
Agreed we need more BP help. I cringed every time we went to the BP in September and our pen cost us at least 5-6 games in the last month alone. Trading/paying for relievers is a big guesssing game.
I have thought for years the one thing that has held us back in the playoffs and regular season is one legitimate middle of the order hitter. A good reliable hitter means our pitchers can relax and don’t have to be perfect. I think we were shut out 13 times last year..and the last one to the White Sox was particularly hard to take. Blackburn pitched his heart out. This team needs more offense..maybe Gomez/Young will mature more this year and a key FA pickup is just what we need, Crede/Blake(who could spell Morneau) are not Lamb/Monroe/White/Sierra..they are not on the downside..
“Atikins is a very good hitter. He doesn’t have overwhelming power, but he has great swing.”
That sounds like Mauer. We already have one of those.
I would much rather have Blake than ‘Atikins’.
You may resume making theoretical trades.
3-team trade:
Rodriquez to Twins
Rameriez to Yankees
Young, Guerrier, Duncan to Dodgers.
Oh wait…theoretical, not dream….my bad. 
I’m glad TK(2) made his announcement in all caps. Trading Span for anything but some huge name, can’t miss guy(who isn’t going to get offered to the Twins anyway) would be supremely stupid. Trading any of the outfielders besides Cuddy and Kubel would be supremely stupid.
I’d take Crede or Blake over Atkins. I’d take Lowell over Crede or Blake. Lowell might be just the guy for us.
One of the BT guys mentioned that Lowell would be a good fit for the Twins. He said this 2 or 3 years ago- back when he was with FLA. We should have heeded his advice. The reason I wouldn’t want Atkins, is because his home/road splits are fairly alarming. The reason I want Blake is because he always does well against his former team, and he has consistantly put of solid numbers… certainly better than ANY of our 3rd basemen since Koskie (which was the reason we didn’t keep Blake at the time).
It sounds like the Rockies are willing to deal Holliday. THAT’S something I’d be interested in. If you could get Atkins as a “throw in”, then I’d take him. But don’t give up serious talent for him.
TK, I think you’re crossing into “dream” territory with Holliday/Atkins. Especially if you’re trying to do it without giving up anything like a Span in return…
LEN3, it would be cool if you became a bigger part of a certain radio show that takes place from 9-12…
Someone mentioned earlier about Kubel having a similar year to Ortiz the year before he left the Twins. I was curious about it, as I’ve always felt that Kubel seems a lot like Ortiz did when he was here. So I went on baseball-reference.com, and was ASTOUNDED at the similarity:
Ortiz in 2002 (age 26)
112 Hits, 20 HR, 75RBI, .272/.339/.500
Kubel in 2008 (age 26)
126 Hits, 20 HR, 78RBI, .272/.335/.471
As many of us are painfully aware Ortiz went on to hit 30HR’s the next year and finish 5th in MVP voting. Not saying Kubel is going to do that, but I think he definitely still has some significant upside.
T says:
“TK “(2)”, I think you’re crossing into “dream” territory with Holliday/Atkins. Especially if you’re trying to do it without giving up anything like a Span in return…
First, TK didn’t say that. TK(2) did. Secondly, I didn’t say it was likely that we’d get Holliday, I just said that Holliday would be someone to give a look at. See what we’d have to give up. I wouldn’t give up the farm for HIM either, but I’d give up more for him than Atkins. Third, Atkins would be a “throw in”. I wouldn’t be that excited to get him- at least until he starts producing- but initially it’d be like: “Wow, we got Holliday!…and Atkins.”
Kubel may have had similar numbers, in fact I’m impressed, but I just don’t get the feeling that Kubel CAN be as good as Ortiz (was, at least). Plus Ortiz was pissed and had something to prove…and had Manny batting behind him…and had a very potent lineup from top to bottom. I wouldn’t be oppose to trading Kubel, but don’t just give him away either. Cuddyer is the one for me who’s gotta go. I don’t really want him in the infield (or rather, don’t want to take that chance), and the OF/DH is set. It’s just a case of being the odd man out. I wouldn’t be mad if they kept him either, but you’ve got 5 players for 4 spots. Someone has to go…don’t they?
Blake, for being from Iowa, might welcome coming to MN, but I doubt that Twin’s get him, so Atkins might be the guy, but I’d be content to stay with Buscher. I’d say we have a pretty good chance on signing Punto again, and I’d even consider Casilla/Tolbert as the SS. Is the 2B from AZ, Hudson, I believe, a FA?? How about Terry Tiffee @ 3B,,,,as I know he is a FA, but would he even consider coming back here???? (Nice comment line here, only my 2nd time on.)
Billy Smith on the supposed “log-jam” in the outfield.
___________
“There’s no question you need depth. You’re going to run into injury, and you’re going to run into slumps. You’re going to run into right- and left-handed matchups. If we go into the season with five, that’s a pretty good five to go in with.”
As for the person who replied to my post about Atkins and saying he sounds like Mauer and we already have a Mauer, no thanks. He would rather have Blake.
I assume you are talking about power. Well Atkins has hit 29, 25, and 21 HRs over the last 3 years. Blake has hit 19, 18, and 21. So you must be saying no thanks to Blake.
A couple of quick thoughts about the outfield logjam. First, it would be crazy to deal Delmon Young. He’s young and set to emerge as a borderline star-caliber player. If I were to deal anyone - brace yourself – it would be Denard Span. His trade value is high right now. I’m a believer in looking at a player’s entire minor league career to determine his future potential. Span has never been a star at any level, struggling to hit in the .275 range. I think this is where he’ll hit over the long run in the majors. We should not be persuaded by one partial season. Remember, Lew Ford, Dustin Moore, Bobby Kielty all shined brightly in their rookie campaigns.
If you’re happy with a right fielder who fields very well and hits .250- .275 in the leadoff spot, then keep Span. Otherwise, trade him while he has value.
As far as Cuddyer is concerned, he had one decent year and a bunch of average ones. He is not a cornerstone of this franchise. He’s also not terrible. I think it’s important to be realistic about the players the Twins have.
MacDaddy,
Excellent response and I agree with about everything you wrote. Span is at a high and this is the right time to deal him imo. Love Denard, but sometimes you have to do tough things in business.
*(Blake) is a FA, and will not cost us any players.
Unless he costs us a draft pick or two. I’m not sure about that.
As far as the “logjam” is concerned, there’s really only four OFers at any given time, considering Kubel is likely going to be a DH before he’s a fielder.
I’m not convinced we have a logjam. Cuddyer can be moved around and DH against lefties. The 3 guys who finished the year in the OF can stay where they are. Kubel is the usual DH against righties and can play at need in the OF.
However, if the club absolutely feels it has to trade someone, Span is not the guy. He has too much service time left on the cheap. Same with Gomez. Young still may develop into a good ball player (his D does make me dizzy sometimes, though). It’s early yet for all three and the ceilings may be high indeed. Cuddyer is versatile (he can play RF, LF, 1B, 2B, and 3B) and, although he was pathetic in his 70 games last year, he offers potential for some desperately needed right-handed pop. Besides, due to the size of his contract compared to his paltry production and injuries last year, who would give much for him? The odd man out, if anyone in the group goes, is Kubel. I think we’ve seen what he can do. There’s not much more he’s going to develop into. He is a decent, but not good, major league hitter who can play the outfield on occasion and may be attractive a team starved for left-handed bats. He might be a good fit for the Angels, for instance. On his own, though, he won’t get us a good major league-ready SS or 3B, though.
Boneyard, How is it that we’ve “seen what he can do” (referring to Kubel), when Ortiz had similar numbers at the same age, and 300 more career at-bats, yet had not begun to show us what he could do?
Blake (like Dennis Reyes) is a type B free agent. The Dodgers will get a sandwich pick but it will not come from the Twins.
