Sleep on this about Casey Blake
Posted on December 9th, 2008 – 10:08 PMBy La Velle
I’m headed out of the media center to work the lobby until the last scout leaves. But I wanted to show you a breakdown of Casey Blake’s contract with the Dodgers, which now has been signed.
The Twins offered Blake two years and $14 million, refusing to add a third year to the deal for a 35-year old player.
The Dodgers nabbed him for a three-year, 17.5 million deal - with an option for 2012!
Here’s the offer that topped the Twins’:
2009 salary: $5 million
2010 salary: $6 million
2011 salary: $5.25 million
2012 salary: $6 million, or a $1.25 million buyout.
That option year might be a way to fold another $1.25 million into the deal, as the Dodge aren’t expected to pick it up - unless Blake has Paul Molitor-like genes.
My question: What if the Twins had gone two years for $15 million plus a third-year option with a $1.5 million buyout? That’s $16.5 million he’d be a lock to make, maybe enough to entice him to sign closer to home.
Twins officials, of course, might read this and argue that $7.5 million is a little too much for someone who will turn 36 next season. And I could understand that. But I would like to have that debate.
73 Responses to "Sleep on this about Casey Blake"
What are you talking about? I tire of these newsless blogs, how desperate is the star tribune for readership?
Anybody else get the sense that working the crowd at meetings like this might be LENIII’s favorite part of his job?
I hate to minimize millions of dollars, but the real question is if the twins were willing to pay 14 mill for 2 years, does the addl 3 mill for the 3rd year really change the economics of the deal? It’s not like the Twins would be forced to keep him on the rosterfor that third year–they can always cut him. They could have offered the same contract the Dodgers did, and the only difference between that and the one they did offer is that they’re on the hook for that 3.5 mil, and if Blake is still going strong, they get to retain his services for the third year.
They have the extra money to spend. I think it should have been explored. It is likely a better use of the 3 million overpayment to Casey Blake then the 3 million to Lamb for playing on a different team next year.
Hmmm, more years but less per year. I think both parties made interesting choices. If I’m Blake, I realize that, if I perform reasonably well, I could make $3.5 million or more in 2011, even at age 37. The Twins appear not to have been inhibited by the money, but it was the principle of the 3rd year. Maybe neither party really wanted the other. Do the Astros become the most likely trading partner, whether it be Wiggington or Tejada?
On Twinsgeek and Seth Stohs podcast, John Bonnes brought up the idea of trading Young to move Kubel to the OF and sign Pat Burrel to DH. The bottom line is that the Twins do have about 20 million to play with this offseason and tradeable talent, They have no excuse not to fill their holes by spring training.
The Dodgers are going to regret that second and third year and will be rushing to buy that deal out come 2012.
Doofus, that might be a reasonable course of action, but it still leaves us with 5 OF and nobody on the left side of the infield. I still don’t see the necessity of trading any of our current stable of OF unless it nets us improvement elsewhere.
If anyone believes the Twins will spend their extra $20 million you’re fooling yourself. When have they EVER done that? They didn’t last year and it cost them the division. They won’t this year either.
Bone,
I think the assumption is that a Young deal would bring in left side infield help and maybe some relief pitching.
I think it is absurd to even have a club option on a 4th year for Blake. Also, why on earth is he taking a pay cut in the 3rd year? It is like all the parties involved know he is going to be a stiff in a few years.
Regardless, I am glad the Twins did not sign him for that contract- (I would have been ok with a 2 year deal with a club option- I actually like the guy)… It makes no sense that the Dodgers would give him a 3+1 when no one else was even offering more than a 2+1.
This is a difference between big market teams and the Twins, the Dodgers can pay Blake 6 mil in 2011 even if he has declined to the point of a utility player, or heck even if he cant play at all. If the Twins were to take that on his contract, it would hamper their payroll flexability…
I’m sure there’s another Mike Lamb out there somewhere they can sign instead.
I think if the Phillies obtain Mark DeRosa in the Peavy deal that DY for Jason Donald and a RP is a possibility
Even Mike Lamb is off the market, he signed with the Brew Crew…
Fine, lets platoon Harris and Buscher. And take Tolbert, Tolleson and Punto (if he resignes) in a big spring training hat and pull out our starting SS. I prefer that to some of the other options being kicked around.
This shows a lack of confidence in Blake and his agent to be able to draw top dollar when he’s 37 or 38. The Twins offer was generous enough, and we all know how well the Lamb signing worked out…
I like the look of this Donald kid, but I think I saw somewhere that he was Philly’s #10 prospect (that was before the tore up the AFL).
But his AA numbers are very simular to Tolleson’s so I am not sure a DY for Donald deal is a great return.
Perk for Donald? Sign me up.
I think for as much as we rip the Twins on their bad FA signings (which we should, btw), we fail to give them credit for not getting trapped in bad long-term FA signings. All off these stiffs we have brought in here: Monroe, Everett, White (even though we signed him back), Ponson, Ortiz,etc were all one year deals. Lamb is the only guy I can think of that had a second year on his contract. The only really bad long term deals we have made (Joe Mays, Guzy) have been with our own guys. One or two mistakes on the FA market with long term deals can take a mid-to-small market team down (see the Giants). At least they dont do that…
Besides some of those washed up FA moves have acutally worked. Kenny Rogers and Denys Reyes come to mind.
Trade Cuddyer not Delmon frees up more money to bring back Punto and get a 3rd baseman.
Thought of the night…
Man, a Jed Lowrie, Justin Masterson, Jon Lester deal for Johan would have been nice…
Young, Span, Cuddy in the OF (assuming either Crisp wasnt part of the deal or we dealt him at this point)
Masterson and Perkins in pen.
Our rotation Liriano, Baker, Lester, Slowey, Blackburn…
Our offseason would be a little different, hell, our season might have been a little different.
RyanW
After reading Gleeman, I am convinced with DY it is when, he will be traded and not if.
I’d rather have the money than spend that on Casey
Dicky- I read that as well. I think the Pads are more likely to give us what we want than the Phillies are. So I would guess a deal for Kouz, a reliever and a high level prospect for Young and a mid level prospect.
DY for Jason Donald, I think is a big time sell low for the Twins.
But I still think the corner OF free agent market is so saturated, that the Twins are not going to find a deal they like. So I am not as convinced as Gleeman is that a deal will actually get done at some point.
RyanW
Also in Gleemans post, he points out moving Casilla to SS is a consideration.
Unless Escobar falls to them, I would prefer Casilla at SS. I am not a big Hardy fan.
We need a young 3B’er who is a switch hitter with some pop. A solid glove man. None of this journeyman stuff. We have seen enough of that the past few years.
I agree no journeymen. We need long term solutions
I would take Hardy in a second, but I dont like the rumored cost.
A Mark Gruzelenik signing could move Casilla to SS and give us a decent #2 hitter. Besides, I think one of the holdups with 3b is that the Twins brass likes what they see with Valencia (and maybe Hughes). I dont really think they want to bring in a long term fix at 3b, which is why they have been looking at Beltre and Atkins. But at SS, they are a little less sure. It would be nice if Casilla would take the position and run with it…
I would love to wake up with a headline that reads “In a suprise move, the Atlanta Braves have signed Rafel Furcal”
[…] Twins Insider – […]
a couple of things:
1. if you are bitching about La Velle, take a hike at the other MLB market newspaper blogs and see how the grass is on the other side (hint: you don’t have to go far, just go across the river). You should be thankful that the Strib is still allowing that much access (try to post a comment on another newspaper’s blog and wait to be moderated) over here
2. That said, La Velle, Blake is a senior citizen and I am glad that the Twins were outbid… How about dangling Perkins now? (and I take away any negative thing I posted about him and all the numbers; he is about to become a superstar…if any rival FO person is diligent enough to look here)
Yah, some of these FA’s have failes in the pass, but usually what happens is they start off okay and then the’re out by July, but what this does is buys the younger guys time it lets the likes of Span, Casilla, Busher, Bartlett and Garza in the past go down to AAA and tear it up, while building confidence, instead of throwing them in the fire and watching them struggle, like Baker in ‘06 and Gomez during parts of the season, I’d like to see us get ab etter Fa pick up, but these past signings have always done their job in buying time for the young guys. I mean who really thought Lamb, Everett, Ponson and Ortiz would actually be the answer, the one true bust was White, he was suppose to hit clean up, but with the others there was no track record or recnt success that would indicate they were going to get the job done
the twins are looking into trading boof to the rangers for a joaquin benoit, a reliever
Anyone else see this from mlb.com:
The Twins have asked about Joaquin Benoit. They are willing to trade Boof Bonser.
It doesn’t make much sense to me. I’d rather take my chances with Boof in the pen (he did a half way decent job once he settled in the bullpen) than this guy with shoulder problems.
So for the cost of $3.5M, spread out over 4 years, the Twins back off?
They were never seriously interested in signing Blake.
That could be good, it could be bad, but it tells me they would have found an excuse not to sign Blake no matter if he only wanted 2 years.
The FA busts you won’t hear me complaining about are Lamb, Rondell White, Livan Hernandez(although not quite a bust) But the other ones, yeah, I will bust them out for.
Are people really complaining about LEN3? What a joke. The same people would probably be complaining about him not having any info if there was no update here.
LaVelle can’t report news if it’s not happening and if he’s not informed about it. Get off his back; he’s doing a tremendous job.
Thrylos is right - how many papers do you know of that have this much freedom and interaction with commenters?
The Strib blogs are a blessing, and you do a tremendous job LaVelle. Keep up the good work and thanks for all your efforts.
Anyone know if these (ugh) Joaquin Benoit rumors have anything to them? 
Doesn’t make sense to me.
For all of you that believe a Young for Donald deal isn’t worth it straight up, you really NEED to learn the (economics) law of Marginal Utility. We have five outfielders at the MLB level, in a market with a glut of outfielders, and we have NO serious prospects to play SS in a SS market getting thinner by the minute.
THEREFORE, Young has far less value to US (and far more to a somewhat thin Phillies outfield) than Donald does at present. (While the Phillies have a couple of options at SS, deeming him less valuable to them than to the Twins) Simply put, why is this so??? Because we have FIVE Delmons and no Donalds. Get it?
No Donalds? I know this has been said 100 times already, but…
.307/.391/.497, 14 HR, 11 SB, 47 BB, 86 K
.300/.382/.466, 9 HR, 12 SB, 44 BB, 74 K
One’s Jason Donald, one’s Steve Tolleson… without cheating, do you even know which is which?
Donald is slightly better.
Are the extra 30 points of minor league slugging percentage worth giving up Delmon Young for?
If the Twins have to trade Delmon Young, then fine, so be it. But it shouldn’t be for Jason Donald, unless we get some damn good pieces added in with it.
Wherever Delmon goes, getting a shortstop who’s a year older than him and hasn’t cracked the big leagues yet isn’t an ideal situation.
Donald and Madson? Maybe then, but I don’t see the Phils moving Madson, and rightfully so.
If Delmon gets traded, it shouldn’t be with the attitude “oh well we have five outfielders so let’s just give one away.” It should be because of a great offer.
I’d like to see peoples’ reactions when they rejoice that Delmon’s gone and we got a SS prospect for him… then see their faces if the All-Star Break rolls around, Cuddyer’s on the DL with another broken hand, Donald’s in AAA because he bombed, Tolbert’s at SS, Kubel is in right, and we have Brian Buscher actually DHing against both RHP and LHP because we don’t have the depth.
Don’t forget about Adrian Beltre. The M’s have hired a new GM and Beltre may be available for less that he was at the allstar break.
I can’t believe someone said they weren’t serious about signing him….they offered an average 3B $7 million dollars for each year, how is that not being serious? If anything that is going too far for him. They showed they are willing to add salary when they tried to get Beltre and Washburn at the trade deadline, and the fact they were willing to give Blake that deal….can’t say they aren’t trying anymore, still need to make good baseball decisions though and not going to a 3rd year for blake was one.
They should have signed Blake when they had the chance. Now, they either 1. Do nothing and bring the same infield (maybe Punto) to Ft. Myers, or 2. Trade for Garrett Atkins and lose one of the starting pitchers and maybe more. Bad decisions. I’ve said it a million times since Blake got away: SIGN JOE CREDE!!
Blake is a slightly below average defensive player who is only going to get worse. He’s a sure thing at the plate, and that’s valuable. But he is by no means “the piece” that the Twins need. Brendan Harris is a much better defensive 3rd baseman and he’s capable of putting up solid offensive numbers at the plate. Harris is a huge question mark though, and if you’re playing for the division you want a sure thing in there. But as far as I’m concerned, Blake isn’t worth crying over. He’s a slight upgrade and a solid player. We only need a 1 year stop gap until 2010 anyway.
…Dumb. Twins blow it again… They WILL regret this. As of December 10th, 2008 at 5:09 AM, I (name withheld), declare that the Twins WILL regret the non-signing of a one: Casey Blake. I will take it back ONLY once I’m proved wrong, but I willn’t be.
trade cuddy to any willing trade partner. sign manny to the dodgers prev 2 yr 25 mil and fill remaining spots with internal solutions
youre welcome
happy holidays
“Don’t forget about Adrian Beltre.”
Oh I didn’t forget the fact the Beltre is a FA after the 2009 season and his agent is Scott Boras. Cold day in hell before the Twins trade for him to get a 1 year rental.
What does Blake’s signing tell us about Blake:
1. He want’s to be in LA/Does not want to be in Minnesota.
2. He has no confidence he can be a ML player in 2011.
3.) He is not very good in managing his money.
Regards,
I think the key question is can the twins win next year? if that answer is yes then blake should have been a go
The whole premise of this is: What if Blake accepted a two-year deal plus an option year? He and his agent made it clear he would not accept that. Next topic.
the important thing is,… casey blake will not be playing for the twins next year, so we can all breath easy again.
RyanW-I agree with your Gruzulanak,Cassila bit.But in regard to 3b,why not get a power hitting guy now.We don’t know if Valencia or Hughes will pan out.If they do,then they can be used as trading chips.The window of opportunity is short for mid-level teams.
I wonder if the Yankees will make Candy Coated Sabathia wear his hat strait. Don’t they have strict rules on appearance?
I still don’t get why the Dodgers upped the offer when the Twins pulled out. Was there another team with a serious offer out there that Blake was considering?
Reading the buyout option, that could’ve been a way to decrease the potential blow when Blake declined in his third year, but that Dodgers contract reminds me of the one the Angels threw at Hunter.
4-5 other teams said “You’re not worth more than this”, and one other team said “Well here’s a ton more money.”
I think it’s safe to say the Dodgers have NO intention of picking up that fourth year.
Of the top 4 teams in our division(KC excluded),the team with the best bullpen, have won the division tittle in this decade.
Shaun:
The only option I could see with Beltre (similiar to what the Mets did with Santana), would be for the Twins to request that any deal made be based entirely on if the Twins are able to negotiate a contract within 72 hours or so.
On Twinsgeek and Seth Stohs podcast, John Bonnes brought up the idea of trading Young to move Kubel to the OF and sign Pat Burrel to DH.
Kubel as an everyday OF makes at least as queasy as DY as an everyday OF. I think that would be a bad idea.
Brendan Harris is a much better defensive 3rd baseman and he’s capable of putting up solid offensive numbers at the plate.
I think Harris’ failure to make the play at 3B in Oakland has turned out to have a longlasting impact on perception of his defensive abilities there.
From Pioneer Press this morning:
“The Twins are seeking a third baseman or shortstop via trade, but Gardenhire said if an “impact bat” can be found at second base instead, he would be willing to move Alexi Casilla to short. “That could happen. If we lose Nicky, I’m not afraid to take a look at Casilla over there.”
That statement opens the door.
1)Sign Mark Grudzielanek to an inexpensive short term FA contract to play 2B. (backed up by Tolbert, Tolleson or Machado)
2)Move Casilla to SS.
3)Pour remaining resources (money or prospects) into upgrading pitching and 3B.
4)Get the hell out of Las Vegas before you lose something valuable.
Should have signed Blake. The hole will continue for another year.
Kubel doesn’t have great range, but he takes better routes than young.
sane you’re up early today!
“4)Get the hell out of Las Vegas before you lose something valuable.”
I see living in California has taught you the finer features of Las Vegas.
I suggested the Burrell thing yesterday.
“Get the hell out of Las Vegas before you lose something valuable.”
Been there.
Done that!
I would take Blake for short-term deal, but don’t think I would invest the money for longer.
I don’t think thirdbase is as critical a need as others. i would like to see Punto resigned at shortstop and have Buscher/Harris hold down third. I believe they have a thirdbase prospect in the minors who is about ready?
What the Twins need is a big bat and that could be filled by signing a DH. Also, Twins need another starter and bullpen help. If any of the Twins starters go down, they have no one to replace them with. Boof Bonser should NOT be on the staff in 2009.
I am kinda agreeing with the Burrell signing talked about on Seth’s podcast last night. It makes a lot of sense. And yes I also agree…get out of Vegas before we lose something valuable
sane every time I go to Vegas I feel like I leave part of me there. Oh yeah that’s because half of my wallet vanishes.
Why would Gardy be “afraid” to try Casilla at short, it’s his natural position… man, Gardy can be about as boneheaded and stubborn as they come! and why would we look for an “impact” bat at second base?? it’s FN second base for cripes sake… put Tolbert there and be done with it, power comes from 1B, 3B, RF, and DH - I feel like I’m taking crazy pills.
Why would Gardy be “afraid” to try Casilla at short, it’s his natural position… man, Gardy can be about as boneheaded and stubborn as they come!
Gardy isn’t afraid to move Casilla to SS. That’s why he said “I’m not afraid…” Seems pretty obvious to me. As far as why he’d want an impact bat at 2nd…why not? If that’s the only place that the Twins can find a true impact bat then so be it. An impact bat at 2B is one more impact bat than we had in 2008. And Casilla to SS would be an upgrade automatically over the Punto/Everett combo.
Why do people insist on reading crap into quotes that isn’t there?
Would Kubel for Samardja be a fair trade? The Cubs are looking for a left handed hitting corner outfielder. It would open up the DH spot for Young/Cuddyer with Pridie being the 5th outfielder, and would give us a young power arm for the bullpen, while the Cubs get their hitter and still have a good pen - Gregg setting up for Marmol.
La Velle has a new update.
Mark W,
“Impact bat” doesn’t necessarily mean power bat.
Grudzielanek and Cano would be impact bats.
The bottom line in this is $3.5M dollars (actually, less than that, see below). All the crap about the “third year” is nothing but a smokescreen by the Twins, who apparently never had any real interest in signing Blake.
According to LENIII, the Twins offered him $14M $7M in 2009, $7M in 2010), he signed with the Dodgers for $17.5M ($5M, $6M, $5.25M, $1.25M).
I don’t believe the Twins offered Blake that much money, but if true, they backed off over less than $3.5M, spread out over 4 years.
Given the contract he signed, they would’ve saved $2M in 2009 (they offered $7M, he got $5M.) Surely a banker like Pohlad could take that $2M, invest it at 5% for two years, and in 2011 (the third year of the contract) have $2.205 available to ‘pay down’ the third year of the contract.
Same for the $1M they saved (offered 7, he got 6) in 2010. Invest for 1 year at 5%, they have 1.05M available in 2011 for Blake’s contract.
Add those together ($2.205M + $1.05M) and you have $3.11M to put towards the remaining $6.5M ($5.25 in 2011, $1.25 in 2012) owed to Blake. So even if Blake is completely worthless in 2011, he would cost the Twins only $2.14M in 2011, and $1.25M in 2012.
That’s what the “third year” really would’ve cost the Twins, if they actually made a 2 year, %14M offer.
The numbers show they were never serious about Blake, or else he’d be Twin this morning.
I’ve said this b/4: Casilla to SS; Give Cuddy back his chance at 2B (only concern is range); DY, Gomez and Span in OF; go after Atkins or Beltre, but don’t overpay and live with Busher/Harris if have to; Tolbert can fill Punto role.
USAF: You must not be using a wireless connection to post…unless you’re using your tinfoil hat to help bounce the signal.
The Dodgers overpaid. Yikes.
This is how it works in Twinsville. This club always finds the point at which a player will sign and then they offer just under that so he won’t, leaving the public to think “wow, they offered that much” what a jerk. They can always say they tried but he was too much. Its always been that way. A couple examples…
Torii Hunter wanted four years at 15 mil. The Twins met the 15 but stayed on three years cause they new that Torii would not take less then four years. He would have been willing to take a bit less per year but had to be four. They knew this.
Santana wanted 20 per for six years. Maybe slightly less per year but six for sure. The Twins came in at 20 for four years knowing full well he wouldn’t take it. Again, they can say they offered 80 million and try and get the public to believe they made a strong offer, making Johan look greedy. It was never going to be accepted so the number is bogus.
They do this all the time and then slide an extra 25 million in their pockets like they did last year. Look throughout the years and you will see the same thing time and time again.
We will leave the meeting with nothing as usual.
