Twins, Rockies talk about Atkins
Posted on December 9th, 2008 – 4:49 PMBy La Velle
The Twins and Rockies have discussed a deal for third baseman Garrett Atkins here, according to a person with knowledge of talks. The Rockies were interested in one of the Twins’ starting pitchers, plus a prospect. Indications are that the Twins still weren’t willing to go there.
About a week ago, there were indications that Colorado wanted righthander Kevin Slowey and outfielder Denard Span for Atkins, so their recent request isn’t as steep.
The source made it clear that the Rockies are in no hurry to move Atkins, so they would have to be very impressed with an offer to make the deal.
Huston Street’s name came up toward the end of the discussion but that didn’t go far. The Rockies don’t expect to re-sign Brian Fuentes so they want to hold on to Street as cover for Manny Corpas.
What’s coming to light here is that the Twins really want to hold on to their core of young starters. Perhaps they feel that this isn’t the year - or Atkins isn’t the player - to give up a starter for.
Two sources have shot down a report that the Twins and Rays were discussing a three-team deal involving Delmon Young.
A National League source confirmed that Nick Punto met with the Phillies on Monday and that the Phillies like Punto, “very much.”
When that was told to a Twins official, he replied, “we like him very much too.”
219 Responses to "Twins, Rockies talk about Atkins"
First!
talk to someone else besides the Rox please. I guess it depends on which starter they wanted though - perk and a prospect? yah id do it.
oh and the Phils can ‘like punto a lot more’ thanks. hope they offer him 2 years at 6 million so the Twins won’t bring him back.
For everyone who loves to bash Atkins’ road woes, he has hit more homers away from Coors than in Colorado.
As recently as 2006, his average was better on the road than Coors.
Get er done so long as its no Baker, Franchise or Slowey.
Blackburn, Buscher and a lower level prospect.
make that Perk, Buscher, and someone like mulvey and you’ve got yourself a deal
Rox already have a LH 3B in Stewart. Maybe Harris, Bonser & Swarzak could do it?
Find me a bigger POS fluke than Blackburn.
Deal him while he still has any value.
His minor league track record indicates he’ll be a long reliever at best long term in the majors and its clear the league figured him out for much of the past month.
He also cant win outside of the dome, what happens in 2010 with him?
Really I’d like any Rockies infielder except Helton …
Stewart, Barmes, Baker, Tulowitzki, Atkins …
*last month
I will be the biggest Phillies fan if they sign Nick Punto! Sorry Philadelphia, your run was fun while it lasted.
Atkins is not worth either a Slowey or a Span, and to ask for both shows the Rockies just are not serious.
SAVE NICKY PUNTO!!!
Scotty U
That wasn’t too bad of an outing Blackburn had to close out the year…………
How about Blackburn and Cuddy plus a ML(mulvey) for Street and Aitkins? Would add bullpen depth and 3B. Must get Aitkins to sign for 3- 4 years though to make sense.
The Twins don’t feel this is the year to make a deal?! Shocker. The Twins will never feel it’s the right time to make a splash through trade or free agency. They’ll always feel it’s the right time to claim they tried to get something done to improve the club but they just couldn’t find the right fit.
At one point Atkins was on the top of my wish list but he’s now behind Beltre and Kouzmanoff. The Rox want way too much for a guy who has pretty bad home/road splits and a suspect glove.
“They’ll always feel it’s the right time to claim they tried to get something done to improve the club but they just couldn’t find the right fit.”
This has become their mantra over the years.
Patrick, yes because we all know the Twins didn’t make a big splash last year….those delmon, bartlett, Harris, Garza deals happen all the time. 
Get a grip people…deals take time and it isn’t easy. Our new GM already showed last year he isn’t afraid to make a big move. I realize he had to trade Santana (another big deal), but that other deal was pretty darn aggressive and he wasn’t forced to do it.
So you argument that they will “always” wait until next year is already a myth.
I hope the Twins are taking a good hard look at Barmes. That guy could fill in at SS and play excellent defense. Plus he has shown a very good bat at times in his career…especially before he was injured. He filled in nicely last year when Tulo went down. They don’t need Barmes, but we sure could use him!
I think the Twins should hang on to their young pitchers. These guys will probably get better with experience and our offense scored a lot of runs even without some power from the 3rd base position. I have a feeling that Kubel was just starting to hit his stride at the end of last year. Took him a while to recover from that major injury. Look for him to have a big year at the plate next year. I’d like to think Delmon Young will also improve at the plate, but there seems to be some tension between him and Gardy if I’m reading between the lines correctly. Bottom line: I wouldn’t be so hasty in trading our young pitchers. If you have good pitching, you’re always going to be a contender.
Beltre would be in a contract year so I think he would put up great numbers but would the Twins’ be able to sign him after 2009. Would dealing Blackburn or Cuddyer be worth one year of Beltre?
Just say NO to Atkins if it involves giving up anyone on our MLB roster.
Give me Beltre, Wigginton, Kouzmanoff, or about half-a-dozen other guys. No Atkins.
I would take Aitkins if it was for Perkins and Bonser.
I’d rather stand pat than give up one of the young starters. I’d like to see what they can do as a unit now that they’ve all got a year of experience together. Unless of course the Twins receive an offer they can’t refuse.
If we get Atkins we will then have a new SS problem. With Atkins at 3B we have to have a very good SS with very good range. Punto? Tolbert? Casilla? Not Harris!
Paul,
Why not just work Barmes into the deal. He has a tremendous glove with excellent range. Before he was injured and Tulo came around he was one of the highest rated defensive SS in the game. Plus the guy has a bat to go with it. Plus the Rockies are stacked at SS with Tulo.
AaronK-
Touche. That trade was the exception to the rule though. For every big trade, there are 10 questionable signings of aging, washed up veterans. The DY/Garza trade doesn’t make them aggressive shoppers. It makes them inexperienced shoppers.
I understand deals take a long time. I understand it takes two to do the trade tango… still, the Twins aren’t exactly major players… practically ever.
It’s amazing how many of you want the Twins to make a ridiculous deal–Slowey, a future all-star innings-eater and Delmon Young for a vastly overrated third baseman with a lead glove–just to make a deal.
We all want the Twins to improve the left side of the infield, finally, after five years of this sh**. But Garrett Atkins is NOT the answer…and this comes from a guy that was promoting a trade for him just two years ago! He’s already peaked and he’d commit 35 errors at 3B in the dome.
AaronK,
I don’t know anything about Barmes. How is he with the bat?
I think the best course of action as stated by someone earlier,get Beltre now(overpay if we must),Tolbert to second(Cassila moves to short).Wait out the right set-up man for prospects.If some team blinks and is willing to overpay then this formula changes.Your in Vegas FO,You are holding the chips,gamble a little!
Lala…
I woudln’t trade Slowey and Young for Atkins, but I think calling Slowey a future all star is probably going way too far at this point.
He is not the second coming of Greg Maddux.
If the Rockies are really asking for Slowey and Span for Atkins, I hope the Twins would just cut talks off right there. That’s almost an insult.
LEN III,
Am I the only one who doesn’t like the sound of anything I have heard so far.
Atkins is no better than our current platoon. Same goes for Kouz and Wigg. I sure I will hear about homeruns, etc. but this feels a lot like the mediocre free agents signings of the past, only this time we are giving up players. Yuck. PLease tell me the Wilson rumors are not true, he’s an overpriced punto. I have nothing positive at all to say about this.
If Brian Buscher were to have played a full year last year and kept the same pace, his numbers would be very similar to that of the older Atkins - basically just a handful of home runs off, but similar everywhere else. Tell me again: why should this guy should fetch a starting pitcher and more?
I wouldn’t give up Slowey and Span much less Slowey and DY for Atkins. Colorado is asking for way too much. They probably see a newer GM and want to see how far they can push it.
AaronK…
I wouldn’t mind seeing Barmes here depending on the price, and his sallary. That injury was pretty nasty and he bounced back, but how much of his offense is Rocky Mountain related? I know he’s not a power hitter, but I don’t have his splits in front of me…
Aaron
Atkins can actually play 3B, and has power - Buscher it seemed like just got lucky on his. That said, if he develops more then I am all for giving him another shot. The problem is he showed very little ability to field 3B last year and is atrocious against lefties. If he can improve in both areas, I’d agree that he would be better.
Todd:
The fact that Atkins hit more homers on the road proves nothing. Coors field is a great hitters park for average (because the breaking balls don’t break as much and the fences are so far back it is easier to get hits in front of the outfielders) but it isn’t nearly as good for hitting home runs (due to the aforementioned deep outfield fences). This proposed move just seems forced (like the Santana trade last year) and I am worried the twins will over pay (like they did last year for Gomez, Mulvey…etc).
Barmes would be a good SS to target. He is a backup to Tulo. He has more pop than any of our current SS options. IMO the Twins are much more likely to add a SS with some pop than a “slugging” 3B. We have more future internal options at 3B than we do at SS.
Looking at what the White Sox and Tigers are doing so far, the central is WIDE open. LEN III, I hope no one in the front office shares your speculation.
Paul,
In order to really get a good feel for how Barmes is with his bat you need a little history. In 2005 he came in as a rookie and played great and was a budding star.
Games: 81
AB: 350
HR: 10
Ave: .289
OBP: .330
Slug: .434
He however was injured in a non baseball injury carrying meat for Helton (no joke). So his great rookie season was cut short.
He came back the next year and really struggled off his injury. (Broken Collarbone)
2007 Rookie star Tulo came and won the SS position and he was regulated to utility infield. Only had 37 ABs.
2008 Tulo gets injured and opens up the chance for Barmes to play everyday again. He started to show that same ability he did his rookie year, playing everyday again and fully healed from his injury.
Games: 107
AB: 393
HR: 11
Ave: .290
OBP: .322
Slug: .468
Tulo came back at the end of the year and is the Rockies SS.
Barmes has lots of untapped ability imo. On top of the fact he has a nice glove, it really is a shame this guy can’t play everyday, imo.
Twins should be targeting him. He is blocked with the Rockies and would come pretty cheap one would think.
I’m cautiously optimistic that the Twins will ultimately do the right thing. In my opinion, that means being conservative with their pitching, i.e. not trading any of their five young starters unless they get blown away by a great deal. Pitching is a precious, but fleeting commodity. We appear to have a glut right now, but a few injuries and a handful of failed prospects and we’ll be desperate for arms.
We tend to covet what we don’t have and undervalue what we do. That’s why so many fans seems to be clamoring for a trade to bring in Atkins, Blake, Furcal, et. al. If they were great, they wouldn’t be available. Punto, on the other hand, is a known element. He’s a great fielder, good clubhouse guy and well below-average hitter. Maybe he’s good enough. As a fan I hate watching him play, but if he’s the best answer, I’ll swallow hard and watch him lunge, flail and pop up…time and time again.
“For everyone who loves to bash Atkins’ road woes, he has hit more homers away from Coors than in Colorado.”
He also slugged 120 points lower, hit .233, and posted a .278 OPS. All things considered it totaled a whopping .661 OPS. And the Dome was the toughest park in the league on hitters last year, so don’t expect any improvements playing half his games in a pitchers’ park as opposed to the Mecca of All Things Offense
“As recently as 2006, his average was better on the road than Coors.”
Other things that happened as recently as 2006:
-Andruw Jones hit 41 HR and posted an OPS just a hair under .900
-Barry Zito was 16-10 with a 3.83 ERA
-Miguel Tejada slugged .498 and posted an .878 OPS with 24 HR in Oakland.
-Chris Carpenter pitched 221 innings with a 3.09 ERA
-Josh Hamilton sat at home drinking while Rick Ankiel thought “Hey maybe I can be an outfielder.”
Point being: Things change. Atkins isn’t going to magically be good again. More than likely, it was a fluke year. Seems like 2006 brought a lot of those about… coughCuddyercough
MacDaddy,
Injuries are one of the big reasons we SHOULD trade some pitching. Glen Perkins has shown zero signs of being able to pitch a full season in the Majors. If he has any value right now, he should be dealt and replaced by Humber, Swarzak, or Duensing.
Do you really think the drop-off will be that large?
“That’s why so many fans seems to be clamoring for a trade to bring in Atkins, Blake, Furcal, et. al.”
Furcal and Blake are free agents. That makes them not good?
Atkins isn’t that good, but he’s available because the Rockies need pitching BADLY.
Beltre is available because the Mariners need to get younger and get some pitching, while trimming payroll.
Being available doesn’t make someone “not good.” Don’t be ridiculous.
Barmes has a career .301 OBP and played all his home games in Colorado. His career OBP away from Coors is .267. I’d rather have Punto or Jack Wilson (and I don’t want either…)
Are the Twins trying to make a re-signing of Punto the biggest acquisition this off-season? Yikes.
Barmes looked like he was going to be a stud. I wouldn’t mind taking a flyer on him, but again, he too has posted some pathetic numbers away from Coors - even in his good years.
I just don’t trust any bats from the Rockies organization, except for Matt Holliday, but he’s gone and we never had a chance there anyhow.
I am liking Barmes more and more. I remember taking a flier on him on fantasy baseball and he was worth it. He would be alot cheaper in a trade (most likely an AAA type player) and he would instantly be a starter here. I like his glove (which is super special important at SS according to Sane) and .290 is great. See what he’s worth BS!
Steve from Fridley-
Excellent posts.
Barmes looked like he was going to be a stud
Even in the minors, he had only 1 decent year outside of the Pacific Coast League. In 2002 he hit .272/.320/.436 with 15 HRs in the Southern League (AA). Not much stud material there…
medschoolmatt,
.290? In a dream. His career OBP away from Coors is .267. His hitting is worse than Adam Everett’s…
So now people here not only want Smith to get quality without giving up anything in return, but he’s supposed to do it RIGHT NOW!
Tough crowd.
if we lose blake to the dodgers for 3 million or less, bill smith should be so damn ashamed of himself that he literally fires himself and rightfully so….our one chance to improve this club without tearing it apart and we let it go over a few bucks…..i will never understand the thinking in this organizations heads other than cheap….what about all this extra money with the stadium and all this b.s…..now we can compete they say…well lets see you morons get it done then….stop the lip service bill smith…its time to step up and play gm —-
Slowey had better be untouchable. I’d be hesitant to give up Blackburn also. Maybe Perkins if it helped bring in Atkins.
Home and Away splits can be more than just the ballpark they play in. Lots of players hit better at home then away. Heck our own Cuddy hits 50 points lower for his career at home. It isn’t like the Homer dome has been a great hitters park either.
Just remember that.
Atkins hits about .230 away from Coors field. Sounds like a younger Mike Lamb to Me.
Let’s summarize…
Acquiring the following players would be mistakes (according to all the ‘experts’ here):
Beltre - he’d be a 1 year rental so anything of any value you give up for him would be too much.
Atkins (and now Barmes) - he sucks anywhere but Coors Field so anything you give up of value would be too much.
Kouzmanof, Wilson, Wigginton - he doesn’t have any more power than the guys we have.
Tejada - he’s too old and wouldn’t produce now that he’s de-juiced.
Blake - he was too old to give a 3 year contract to, so let the Dodgers do it instead.
Hardy - everyone would love to have him… as long as all you have to give up to get him is some combination of guys who have fallen out of favor with the local fanbase. But give up real talent to get him? No… that’s too much.
Furcal and Cabrera - both trashed around here as being not worth the money they would command.
Crede - too injury prone to spend money on.
Let’s see… who am I missing?
thrylos as I pointed out Barmes career numbers won’t look that great. However, once you realize about half his AB’s came in a year after he was recovering from a major collarbone injury it can be better understood. He hit the heck out of the baseball his first year and also last year once he was fully healed and playing everyday again.
I realize his home/away splits are in question as they should be. Same with Atkins. However, lots of players hit better at home, even if it isn’t Coors field. I have watched Barmes play a lot and I think he is a great talent and a heck of hitter. Coors or not.
I am yet to see the Minnesota love affair with Kevin Slowey. He’s a solid citizen pitcher, but I don’t see the greatness that others do.
I can understand the Mauersota crap, but I don’t get the Slowey love. Lola called him an allstar in the making.
I don’t want to be Mr. Negative on this one… will someone explain it to me so I can try and fit in…
Because to me he is the one that I would be shopping first.
Watch him dominate the brewers in that 3 hitter. I am sorry if you can’t see how good he COULD be but it looks pretty obvious to me.
AaronK…
Barmes is not a terrible idea at all.
He’s a more than Punto (I will be so happy to never see another headfirst slide into 1st base) or those weak fly balls to shallow left field (batting left), and RF batting right.
Jim, you hit it right on the head the average fans thinks junk will get you gold. It does not work that way unless it is a salary dump and than you still give up a least 1 good prospect. I said earlier Franchise for Hardy and most people said way to much to give up Liriano is a stud. He is very good but has been hurt 2 out of 3 years, he turn out to pitch great for the next 10 years or he could blow out his arm again in the next 2 years, if it where me making the trades I would offer him to the Brewers for Hardy, young stud ss for young stud pitcher, may have to add a mid level pitcher because of Liriano’s injuries. That is what it take to get good players back. Not Bonser, Tolbert, some mid level career AAA guy.
Skips…
Did he look more dominate than Blackburn did against the White Sox? More dominating than Liriano did his rookie season? More in command than Baker did last year? And Perkins while the erratic one of the bunch… I like how he will throw the ball in on the hands of a hitter just to let them know it’s his mound.
Slowey when he’s on is an innings eater… when he isn’t he’s batting practice… 88 mph fastballs are great if you are Greg Maddux, but Slowey isn’t that good… too many homer balls.
I am not saying he’s terrible… please don’t think that. He’s just my least favorite of the 5.
David…
I had mentioned Liriano for Hardy as well earlier today.
BC I think you might be right on the Slowey thing, He is a change of speed and location pitcher, more Radke than Maddux. I can live with Slowey or with out him, I would deal Perkins 1st because he is a lefty than Slowey but not both. If it is a 1 for 1 deal for a stud 3b or ss that we can keep for a few years than I would deal Liriano.
“Beltre - he’d be a 1 year rental so anything of any value you give up for him would be too much.”
- It depends on what we give up, but we would also probably get two first round picks as compensation if we wouldn’t be able to sign him.
Kouzmanoff has plus power, he plays in a pitcher park, and is younger than Buscher.
Will Other Teams Bid On Smoltz?
By Tim Dierkes [December 9 at 6:23pm CST]
TUESDAY: Rosenthal says Smoltz’s agents are passing out medical info to teams. Rosenthal spoke to one GM who believed Smoltz might be willing to leave the Braves.
what do you think Smoltz in the ballpen to help set up joe
I would be all for Smoltz in the pen or rotation, but I have feeling he would go to a large market team.
He has looked way more dominate than Blackburn ever has and to suggest otherwise is silly. He has been healthy something liriano can’t claim. He is much more in control than baker was his first several times with the big league club. Don’t you remember him pacing around for an hour between pitches and when he did throw it was a meatball. You can’t compare a 24 year old to a 27 year old that has been around the block. And while he doesn’t do it as well as Perkins I think he did a fine job of coming inside late in the year. And he is more of a 90-92 than 88 which is more than adequate when you throw with the command he does. If I had to pick one of our starters to build around it would be him. But thats just me and lets be grateful we have these pitchers to discuss because many fans would give a lot to have a group of pitchers like we have.
i would only trade Liriano , Backer, or Slowey for a power hitting 3B or SS amd he stays with the Twins more then one year I like Smoltz but would he leav the Braves i think out of the ballpen Smoltz is a good pitcher
Matt, I agree if your getting Beltre as a 1 year rental the cost should not be to high, Buscher and Mulvey or Humber.
Slowey 12-11 with a 3.99 ERA a future All-Star???
How quickly we forget our Opening Day, All-Star, #1 pitcher a few years back…he averaged a 13-10 record with a 4.22 ERA…..and we moaned and groaned when he retired.
Now a days we complain about Slowey’s first full year in the bigs?? Future All-Star?? His chances are just as good as Radke’s were.
BC
Slowey has be best control of all 5. Bert may annoy us once in awhile, but he knows his pitching and he made a point to show Slowey’s control in a game. Mauer would move inside thigh high - guess where the ball was thrown? Inside, thigh-high. He’d then move outside corner, knee-high. Guess where the pitch was? Outside, knee-high. Mauer’s glove RARELY moves when Slowey pitches, but moves with regularity with pretty much everyone else. He also is as good if not better than Baker at changing speeds and has a solid changeup and pretty good slider. He is crafty, and pitches within himself. Oh, and he regularly hits 90, not 88.
He isn’t flashy like the others - Baker is polished and can hit 94 mph, Liriano is Liriano, Blackburn has guts and has a great groundball pitch and Perkins goes after hitters. But he gets the job done and does it very well.
thats why people like him.
I would absolutely love to get John Smoltz on this roster. A class act, and a live arm even at 40 years old… I think he would do a setup role since we have a playoff calibur team… I also think that his presence would further enable us to trade one of our starting 5 to get a guy like Hardy.
matt… it’s not that you couldn’t make an argument in favor of the guys I mentioned, I’m just pointing out what folks around here have been saying about them to put them down as options.
Nothing Smith has even a remote chance of doing will satisfy the majority of people here.
As for the pitchers… The Twins have a bunch of young starting pitchers with quite a bit of potential, but there’s no sure-fire Ace among them. None should be untouchable, but none of them should just be given away without significant value in return either.
Smoltz would be an interesting addition, but I’m more than a little skeptical about the effectiveness of a career National Leaguer coming over to the AL.
Anyone notice that the M’s signed 3B Russell Branyon?? Is he more than insurance or are the M’s getting ready to jettison Beltre?
i think Smoltz would like to go to a big market team to but the Twins are a good team with a lot of good young payers and if Smoltz wanted to start they could move Blackburn or perkins down to the pen
Since the season ended I have flipped back and forth several times but I would really like to see them grab Kouz. He does K too much and his plate discipline is pretty bad but he has power, solid with the glove, and away from petco could keep the average up. I think he is a safer bet than Atkins and would probably come cheaper. I love beltre but I don’t like the idea of picking him up and then going through this same deal next year.
Anyone know Kouzmanoffs contract situation? I think I remember him being signed through 2010 but I can’t remember.
“Even in the minors, he had only 1 decent year outside of the Pacific Coast League. In 2002 he hit .272/.320/.436 with 15 HRs in the Southern League (AA). Not much stud material there…”
Admittedly, I haven’t looked at his minor league numbers; I was merely going off of his rookie season promise.
At any rate, as I said, I’d be fine taking a flier on him, but I wouldn’t be expecting a lot and we better not give up anything of great value in that deal if it were even a possibility, which it’s probably not. Ah… Winter Meetings are fun.
I am yet to see the Minnesota love affair with Kevin Slowey. He’s a solid citizen pitcher, but I don’t see the greatness that others do.
alright, here it goes:
Slowey 2008 (24): 1.15 WHIP 5.13 K/BB 6.90 K/9
Baker 2008: 1.18 WHIP 3.36 K/BB 7.36 K/9
Liriano 2008:1.40 WHIP 2.09 K/BB 7.93 K/9
Blackburn 2008: 1.36 WHIP 2.46 K/BB 4.47 K/9
Perkins 2008: 1.47 WHIP 1.90 K/BB 4.41 K/9
MLB starter average 2008: 1.39 WHIP, 2.06 K/BB, 6.20 K/9
I hope you see who does not fit with the rest there…
Just for fun, here are those comparisons and why some of us regard Slowey that high:
2008 Johan Santana: 1.15 WHIP 3.27 K/BB 7.91 K/9 (NL)
2008 Cliff Lee: 1.11 WHIP 5.00 K/BB 6.85 K/9
2008 Lincicum: 1.17 WHIP 3.15 K/BB 10.50 K/9 (NL)
1990 Greg Maddux (24): 1.32 WHIP 2.03 K/BB 5.47 K/9 (NL)
1992 Greg Maddux (Cy Young): 1.01 WHIP 2.84 K/BB 6.68 K/9
1994 Radke: 1.19 WHIP 4.58 K/BB 6.53 K/9 (20 win season)
Hope that helps 
BC,
One thing about Slowey, and for that matter the other young pups, how much better will he/they become when they begin to get the vetran strike zone rather than being continually squeezed by the umpires?
Regards,
Medschoolmatt.
I am not saying I hate Slowey. This is not Nick Punto we are talking about. I am just saying that he’s a right handed control pitcher that doesn’t walk a lot of hitters. I think that he would be the perfect guy to trade because he’s already about peaked in his ability. His fastball will never be faster, his control doubtful will be better, and he has a pretty solid defense behind him and he still gives up too many homers, and hits per nine innings… If the Brewers said they would trade Hardy for Slowey and Cuddyer I wouldn’t even ask for a throw in back. IF they wanted Delmon Young… I’d probably look at one of their High A ball starting pitchers…
we have smart money to spend on a guy like Smoltz i’m saying smart money because we cant through money around i think we do have enough money to sign himand trade or sign a ss or 3B i think the only qustion is dose he want to leav the Braves and how much money are the braves going to or have offered him
Thrylos with the numbers, and myself with the analysis. not too shabby a camp for Slowey
Skips,
Kouzmanoff is arbitration eligible I believe. He’d be under team control for awhile.
As for Beltre, the fact that he’s on a one-year deal is great. It lowers his value to a certain extent, gives us two draft picks when he leaves (Type A free agent), and doesn’t block Valencia or Hughes if they have a breakout campaign in the Minors.
Worst case scenario, we’re looking at the 2009 crop of free agents and trade targets.
While the FAs look uninspiring - headed by Ty Wigginton and Pedro Feliz (well, Chipper Jones too, but let’s be remotely serious here) - who knows who will be on the trading block then?
Beltre makes perfect sense. I wish we could hear something about his asking price.
Good stuff Thrylos. And another good point there. Imagine how Slowey could rack up the Ks with the K zone guys like Mussina get.
Steve from Fridley,
I don’t think Perkins is the second coming of Sandy Koufax, but he has the potential to be a very good major league pitcher - either a starter or reliever. You shouldn’t get rid of talented young pitchers unless you get a great deal in return and I’m not satisfied with any of the players I’ve seen – either free agents of via trade. It’s times like these that I’m thankful the Twins have a history of being conservative when it comes to dealing pitching (Garza for Young excluded). If you have good pitching you’ll always be competitive. Texas has proven that a potent offense is not enough to be a winner. With this in mind, I would much rather trade Span or Cuddyer than any of our pitchers. That’s just my opinion.
alright BC, we’ll agree to disagree.
I’d love Smoltz on this team. he’s a legend, and would be a great vet for the youngsters to work with. he’d be perfect as a set-up man or even as a 5th starter if we trade one of our current guys.
What makes you think Perkins will be very good?
His year was tremendously mediocre until his catastrophic finish.
I’m not saying this as insulting, I’m genuinely curious. He had the worst stuff and overall stats of any of our rotation this year (Well, Livan and Boof excluded).
Is the hype just because he was good in college and is from Minnesota? I don’t get the Perkins fascination.
Baker, Slowey, Liriano - absolutely. Don’t deal them. Perkins and Blackburn wouldn’t bother me a bit.
BC,
because he’s already about peaked in his ability.
Check the comparison I posted with Maddux up there at age 24 and then at age 26 (his first Cy Young) and Maddux got better after that. The key is that control pitchers like Slowey and Maddux do get better by the time
Steve, the Beltre scenario only makes sense if the Ms concur about him not being worth as much because he’s entering a contract year. Unfortunately, thus far, there’s been absolutely no indication that Seattle has been willing to take a discounted return for him.
BC…to say Slowey has peaked is almost like saying Longoria has peaked. These guys have just started….
Re: Perkins, my opinion is that Boof is twice the pitcher he is (and I am not talking just weight here). If Boof were a Minnesotan and a Twins’ former 1st draft pick, his treatment by the organization and the fans’ view would have been different… betcha
98,
Your stats on Slowey seem compelling,however the thing I worry about with all of the Twins young starters is, can they do it again,or even get better? If it took Slowey to get,as an example, a young proven power SS like Hardy I’d have to do it.The Twins have no one in their system that can do what Hardy can.They supposedly have a system full of young pitchers.
I am sure that Smoltz would not come to the Twins cities. The one veteran I would like to see (and not only because he can take Liriano (and Gomez and Casilla) under his wing from day 1) is Pedro Martinez.
I am more than a little doubtful about picking up Beltre and then trying to find another 3rd basemen given how much trouble we have had since Coskie left. I guess I am just skiddish about Valencia not panning out and then another year of a washed up player or someone like punto playing 3rd. I think Kouzmanoff would be as good a hitter here as beltre would (assuming he isn’t hurt badly by changing leagues). Beltre is hurt by safeco but the dome isn’t a huge improvement if at all. I would prefer being able to let Vaencia develop and if he can handle the job we can move Kouz and let him take over.
Pro From Dover,
you cannot trade Slowey. Trade any of the others but not him. The Twins do have a lot of young pitchers in their system but they are at the Blackburn/Perkins level. Other that an 18 year old guy in the DSL league (Pedro Guerra; I bet most people never heard of him) nobody is at the Slowey level.
Slowey compared to Santana is a shame.
Comparing him to Maddux in 5 years let’s talk.
Comparing him to Radke… not exactly a ringing endorsement that he’s a future all star.
Thrylos…
believe it or not… I completely forgot that Pedro was even out there.
Didn’t mean to bash Punto there. I like him a lot. Solid player and a good guy that gets a lot more hate than he deserves BUT he is not an everyday 3rd basemen.
98,
I see where you are coming from with the Bonser/Perkins analogy,but the ML stats don’t support it.Except for the handful of starts Bonser had in ‘06 at the end of the season,he has sucked at the ML level.Perkins may have peaked in August last year,but up to that point he was a much better pitcher than Bonser had showed in the last two years.IMO he deserves at least the same chances the Twins have given Bonser.
What was with all the Garrett Atkins bashing earlier? Because he hit .233 away from Coors Field last year? Who’s to say he won’t hit .300 at home next year in Minnesota? What I did notice about him is he hit .286, 21 HR’s, 99 RBI last year in 155 games. And with a right handed bat he hit lefties at a clip of .357. I’ll take that 3rd baseman over anything we currently have every day of the week. And with him playing 155 games last year, it would be every day of the week.
BC - for the record, Radke WAS an all-star and also had a 20 win season. he was a rock for several years. I don’t think that’s such a bad comparison (and I think Slwoey is BETTER than that, by quite a bit)
The problem with Atkins is you need to deal with the Rockies to get him. And personally I don’t want the twins doing business with a team that would even suggest Span and Slowey for Atkins.
Does anyone else think Morneau could play third? Or how about a deal for Mike Lowell? It sounds like the Red Sox are pretty hot on Teixeira, so Lowell would be out. He’d be an injury risk, but the guy can flat out hit. If not, Morneau to third and find a solid hitting first baseman? Another scenario to consider at least…
Dragon -
Great point though… the veteran strike zone I think could start happening this year because of the reputation the twins, Anderson, Mauer, and the young kids themselves have already developped. That is one of the reasons I think the Twins could win as many as 8 more games this seaon that last pretty much as they stand now. Trading one of those starting pitchers, and getting a proven bat to be in the 5th spot is great.
And everyone knows I want that, but in all seriousness… things have a way of working themselves out with Gardy’s boys. IT drives me nuts sometimes, but we won a world series with Pags and Leuis in 91… Buscher and Harris is not a huge downgrade from that combo. Tolbert and Casilla up the middle in some order… probably 2nd and SS respectively… provides adequate defense, not great, and probably better than average bats… Cuddyer can’t be worse than last year, and Delmon Young and Gomez have another year under their belts. Mauer may surprise us and jack 15 homers in a season and be considered the next Babe Ruth to Morneau’s Gehrig… This team has a great deal of potential to just be a step better than they were this year as is. Bringing in a quality reliever, a 3B and/or a SS would be fantastic, but counting out what this team does inspite of it’s owner, and GM is something we have seen since 2002.
sign Joe Crede good power and defense and won’t have to give up anything for him
Except for the handful of starts Bonser had in ‘06 at the end of the season,he has sucked at the ML level.Perkins may have peaked in August last year,but up to that point he was a much better pitcher than Bonser
Perkins 2008: 1.47 WHIP 1.90 K/BB 4.41 K/9
MLB starter average 2008: 1.39 WHIP, 2.06 K/BB, 6.20 K/9 (copy from above)
Bonser 2008: 1.48 WHIP 2.69 BB/K 7.38 K/9
and I would add that:
2008 Bonser BABIP: .325
if you normalize that to the league average .290 his WHIP would have been in the 1.20s
that’s stats. Also, Perkins has one plus pitch: a 4-seamer. Unless he can build secondary pitches he has no chance in this league. Bonser has a plus 4-seamer, a plus slider and a plus plus curve. Add Blackie to the mix? He has a plus 2-seamer, an average 4-seamer a plus curve and a plus slider (and he has been thrown a plus screwball about 25 times last season).
Perk’s the guy to go, if you trade one of them
thrylos, is there anyone you want them to get? I gotta agree with JimC here, it seems like a lot of posts saying “no, no” (not just from you). Though I still disagree that BS can’t please any of us, I just don’t think he will.
As for all of you wanting to keep all of the young pitching, good luck getting better. It’s nice to have 5 MLB starters, 2 in AAA and 1-2 in AA that are ready right now (considering what a number 4/5 is on most teams), but all that depth gets you 85 wins if you don’t hit consistently. This team over achieved in runs scored last year, w/o more power they are highly unlikely to score as many runs next year. I just don’t understand the obsession with depth at the expense of great players. I’d rather have 1 great OFer and 2 mediocre ones than 3 good ones.
Wait wait wait
Pedro is available? How much would it take to get him? He’d be awesome for this team.
Morneau to 3B?? How about Delmon Young to third? How could he do any worse than in LF? ….but hey, we could keep all our outfielders.
this posting site is all screwed up. I keep getting other people’s log in and email, and keep not seeing my posts. I have no idea if that last post went through, and I’m not thrilled my email is going out to others. I’m done for awhile, I think.
Also, Atkins would be going from the 2nd best hitting park in the NL to the worst hitting park in the AL
Medschoolmatt.
a lot of pitchers have won 20 games once in their careers, and a lot of pitchers have made A SINGLE all star game simply because like the Twins when Radke went… the team had no other talent to send.
Tell me the Royals have All star talent, and yet they get an all star rep every year… that is what Radke was.
A very consistant and very solid 3rd starter for most decent teams… or the Twins ace for 5 years.
I am not saying Slowey should be cut, or sent to the minors, or anything like that… I just see more potential out of the other guys than I do out of Slowey. I think he’s already as good as he will ever be.
Slowey compared to Santana is a shame
Well, the fact is that in 2008 Slowey in the AL outpitched Santana in the NL…
Not a shame
Would Pedro beinterested in converting to a set-up guy. I think that might be his best place right now seeing how he has broken down lately.
Pedro will probably sign a 1+1 option for $4 mil + incentive guarantees for that option… He is a free agent
thrylos, is there anyone you want them to get?
Sure (check my blog) the summary is (and I’ve been extremely public about it the last month):
# Troy Glaus/ Adrian Beltre/ Ty Wigginton / Scott Rollen at 3B (I can live with Melvin Mora too)
# Khalil Greene at SS (that was shot)
# Dan Uggla at 2B
# Sign Pedro Martinez
Was Barmes the guy that KILLED us during the Colorado series last year? I think so…
Thrylos…
just remember there is more to playing baseball than statistics… Bonser choked in the 5th inning of almost every single start two years ago… I was at the Anniversary game of the 87 Twins, and Bonser was not only terrible, but his attitude was so terrible that night… we were in the 7th row by the 3rd base line and saw him bitching about the trucks on the field interfering with his routine…
When it quieted I yelled to him that he would just have to suck in the 4th inning and not the 5th so he could get to OCB before it closed… the people around me were disgusted… When Boof got rocked by the Rangers in the 4th inning and you should have seen that terrible lineup that night)… I had two gentlemen buy me beers for making the call, and from that point in time he became OCB… Ole Chubby Boof.
At no point in time did I see a starting pitcher on this staff in 2008 have more than 1-2 starts that were Boof like.
And that can’t be shown just in stats.
I would love to sign Joe Crede and then go hard after JJ Hardy
Talking about all the pitchers make me mad. WHAT ABOUT ME?!
Thrylos…
Who had more wins? Who had more K’s, who pitched against better pitchers, and better teams?
Remember Slowey was a 3rd-5th starter… and got to play teams like Cleveland and KC.
I think I will take Santana as an ACE going up against guys like Cole Hammels, and other Aces… and having to pitch against lineups like the Phillies and even FLA… Atlanta was pretty weak offensively and would have fit in with the AL Central for the most part…
Is there a stat that shows the strength of starts?
98
I don’t disagree that Perkins is the lesser of the Twins starters,but what are you going to get for him? You spend so much time ripping the guy,but if he’s that bad why would any other team want him? I’m just saying if you want to trade for talent you better be prepared to give up talent. And you are assuming Perkins WON’T develope another ML pitch.
It’s great to see that as per your usual,you seem to think that yours is the only opinion that matters.As for Bonser,I think even you would agree that it’s not his talent that has kept him from progressing.And like I said Bonser has been given two years of bad pitching and the Twins still haven’t completely given up on him.Perkins,off his ‘08 season,probably deserves the same treatment.
I wouldn’t trade Slowey for any of the players that have been mentioned so far in any trade rumors. Dangle Perkins or Blackburn as trade bait, but, Liriano, Baker and Slowey should be untouchable and the same goes for Span.
Jman…
I would like to see Crede here too, but with his back, and with his agent I don’t see it as a possiblity.
BC.
there is more than statistics, but statistics are the actualization of a performance and sometimes lead indicators of performance and should not be ignored… That said, that’s why I posted the scouting reports up there for Bonser, Perkins and Blackburn. Also, I watched about 150 Twins games last year and seriously every time that Perkins pitched, he imploded in the 5th or 6th inning. He is in love with his fastball and he loves to serve fat ones when behind. When tired it’s buy buy time with him.
thrylos, don’t stop with naming the guys you would like to get… give us the corresponding LIMIT on what you would give up to get them (either players in trade or $/yrs for FAs).
That’s where the rub comes. It’s easy to say “the Twins should go get so-and-so”. But at what price? If you don’t put a high end price on the wish list, you can’t truly judge the Twins’ efforts in the end.
Thrylos98,
08 Slowey outpitched Santana?
Are you drinking tonight?
Another thing. Someone compared Slowey to Maddog. His control is similar but his stuff is not even close.
Don’t get me wrong , I love Slowey but c’mon.
Well rumors are Delmon to Padres for Kouz plus. What about waiting for the Cubs/Pads Peavy deal to come down and then trade Delmon and prospect for Kouz, Ronny Cedeno and a prospect. Sounds like a fair deal.
Is there a stat that shows the strength of starts?
how about run support (and don’t start me with the win thing, otherwise I’m gonna tell you how many Livan won )?
Perkins: 7.45
Livan: 6.55
Baker: 5.80
Slowey: 5.61
Liriano: 5.33
Blackburn: 4.98
98
Just who do you think the Twins would have to trade to get your wish list? You think Perkins would get you any one of those Thirdbasemen? Or Uggla? Pedro Martinez signing with the Twins? Get a grip.
And I’m going to take a personal shot here,sorry.Why would anyone want to spend time on your blog? You are here all day long,answering everyones questions as if THIS were your blog.I think it’s great you have your own blog,but the reality of it is it doesn’t make your opinion any better than anyone elses here.Just something to think about.Have a good night.
JimCrikket,
fair. Here is the whole picture:
# Glenn Perkins, Brian Buscher and a prospect to the Cardinals for Troy Glaus ($12M)
# Trevor Plouffe to the Padres for Khalil Greene ($6.5M) (Bombed)
# Alexi Casilla, Brian Duensing, Phillip Humber to the Marlins for Dan Uggla ($5M)
# Sign Pedro Martinez ($6M)
better?
For every big trade, there are 10 questionable signings of aging, washed up veterans.
Except for the contract extensions to Cuddyer, Morneau and Nathan…
Combined with the aquisition of Young.
Seems pretty dramatic to me.
Thrylos… I don’t usually disagree with you as much as some of the others, but tonight minus the sarcasm I am going to agree with Paul.
Santana is a HOF pitcher. Greg Maddux is the winningest right handed pitcher in the last 75 years, plus the 2nd best fielding pitcher ever, and an absolutely solid hitting pitcher… oh and what 15-17 straight seasons of 15 plus wins.
I would have taken Maddux last year compared to Slowey, but that’s just me.
………………
Drewski…
I don’t need our need for Ronny Cedeno. If we can get Kouzmanoff and a prospect for Delmon Young straight up, or without having to throw in a top prospect… then pull the trigger in a heart beat. I didn’t think we’d get that one even up let alone get a good deal out of it.
I know Pedro Martinez is a “big name”, but hasn’t he pretty much been a ghost for the Mets the last few years?
And personally, I hate Troy Glaus…I think he’s old and worn out. (No different than Blake, except you’d be giving up talent to get him)
98. You just turned us from the run and gun twins into the W. Sux. Gratz. 
Lots of HR, no RISP.
just my personal opinion..
but traded delmon young for a 3B or SS will not improve the twins offense.
delmon can only improve. cuddy meanwhile may already have his best seasons behind him
Thrylos…
I don’t think you were offering enough in any of those trades except maybe Uggla where you may have offered too much. You might as well put a giant rock at 2nd base and hope the ball bounces off it towards 1st base. Uggla is a terrible fielder.
Bc. you think the padres WOULDNT do it?
IF this was offered.
Kouz, Cedeno and a prospect
FOR
Delmon and a prospect
Would you say yea or nay?
T
I agree with you. The Twins don’t need any more over-the-hill veterans like Glaus and Martinez.
I think Slowey has upside because after putting up sick numbers in the minors (1.94 ERA, .85 WHIP), he appears to be progressing each half season since he was called up. I was with you BC a year ago, but watching him pitch the last half of ‘08 sold me on him. He is exactly what you look for in a young player. A guy that puts up great numbers in the minors, then makes adjustments over his first year or two and to put up simular numbers in the majors… he could easily be a better pitcher than Radke over his career.
I would not trade him in any deal that doesnt bring a JJ Hardy/Yuneal Escabar-type player back.
T -
Pedro is still a pretty solid pitcher, but he gets by more on guile than he does on his arm. Had he never gotten hurt he very well might be the greatest pitcher I ever saw. I got to see him when he was still in Montreal and seriously he made Clemens look like Radke.
tc and t.
IF, and only if pedro were looking at a 1yr 1mil flyer, and was willing to sign with us, are you saying you wouldnt take that small risk? hes so injury prone hes not gonna be asking the bank to get a chance, and the mets look like they are going another way.
thrylos, whether I agree or disagree with your assigned values is irrelevant. I think in general you’re doing the same thing most people here are… underestimating what it would take to get what you want.
But at least by going on record with those “high limit” values, it gives you something to compare to when something does get done (and I believe something will). That’s fair.
CREDE OR BELTRE ARE THE ONLY GOOD SOLUTIONS LEFT THAT WON’T COST PLAYERS OR BIG TIME PLAYERS.
WIN TWINS!
that essentially is young for kouz (cedeno is not needed or wanted - Tolbert and even Plouffe have more talent/potential/proven ability) - i am not all that thrilled
Alright that WAS not me.
I think I would rather sign Joe Crede than trade Young for Kouz or Atkins…
I think the focus is off, we need a SS and RH relief pitching more than we need 3b help.
Drewski: “Taking a flyer” is what the Twins have made the mistake of doing for the past however many years.
And I doubt Pedro would settle for 1/1. Another team would offer more (on name recognition) and he’d take it.
I wouldn’t trade any of the starters either. They are too good and too valuable.
Crap… that Drewski comment at 7:49 is mine.
I give up with this crap… not going to keep checking the “Name” field to make sure it’s mine. Wish the Strib would get their crap together.
Drewski,
Get real, Pedro is never going to play for that amount of money.
Heres the issue. I dont think the twins would give up the package that the m’s are looking for when it comes to Beltre, UNLESS they could sign him to contract extension to be able to keep him for 2 to 3 years. and i REALLY dont see beltre doing that unless the twinks make a hell of an offer.
Of course beltre at 3rd could very much make the twins from divison contenders into Pennant contenders.
If we can get Atkins for Blackburn and a midlevel- sure, I would be ok with that.
Any thoughts on Bill Hall? The Brewers just signed Mike Lamb… they have a lot of infielders. I would rather give a little more and get Rickey Weeks- move Casilla to SS.
But GUYS! i could play 3RD AND SS!
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2008/12/dodgers-have-of.html
Blake is gone. THANK YOU. just get Beltre already and lets make a run.
Isn’t Beltre a Boras client? If so, he won’t agree to an extension a year before free agency. He certainly wouldn’t do so with a mid-market team like Minnesota. He would be a one year rental, period.
Troy Glaus…I think he’s old and worn out. (No different than Blake
perceptions…
Glaus is 32, Blake is 35. Glaus has a 1 year contract, Blake signed for 3 (and this holds for the others Beltre/Wiggy/Rollen, too) Glaus is way better with the glove than Blake is.
Uggla is a terrible fielder.
another perception:
Uggla 2008: .981 FP .803 ZR
Casilla 2008: .974 FP .830 ZR
Punto 2008 (2b): .985 FP .787 ZR
You just turned us from the run and gun twins into the W. Sux
last I checked, Span, Gomez and Young would still be there, but the 2008 Twins did not cut it. Also, last I checked the Sux won the division, didn’t they? You need to have a balance and the Twins did not have that last year
Hall - no. makes too much and has just been bad at the plate and in the field. no reason to get him
Bill Hall seems to be a one year wonder-Twins don’t need anymore of those.
JimCrikket,
what’s that bad about an one year rental? Remember Chili Davis? (he was a 2 year rental but it was the first that mattered) How about Kenny Rogers?
“And I’m going to take a personal shot here,sorry.”
Where else but Minnesota, would a blog poster apologize BEFORE taking a personal shot!
You gotta love these people!
Sane,
Very astute. Thanks for the belly laugh.
Thrylos, I like all your trades although I think you are offering too much for Uggla like someone else said (I really dont want to see Casilla go - wouldnt a combo of Tolleson/Plouffe/Tolbert/Machado do it?). Actually I was glad to see greene go - we need power but not to sacrifice that much average for it
Glaus makes sense and so does Uggla; Martinez would sign for ~5 mill, be a solid 5th starter (if he cant handle it, who would be it since you traded humber and perkins away, Mulvey? Swarzak?) or a good set up man, and would be a good vet for the youngsters.
Lineup would be this:
Span LF
Mauer C
Morneau 1B
Glaus 3B
Uggla 2B
Young/Cuddy RF
Kubel/Cuddy DH
Harris/Tolbert SS
Gomez CF
holy cow that lineup is scary
Jim- you are correct. As a Bor-ass client, any Beltre move will be for 2009 only.
Really we have some prospects at 3B that are not quite MLB ready, so we are only looking for 1-2 years of service (Which is why Blake for 2 years would not have been such a bad move, but 3 would have been). I think if the twins think Crede’s body will stay together for a year on turf, they should give him a shot.
Crede of course is a Boras client too, so I am sure he will Kyle Lohse-it by waiting for spring training to see if he can milk out a 2 year deal from some team.
What kind of deal is Cesar Izturis going to get from the O’s?
And any word on what the dollar amount is for the Wood deal?
After looking up Garrett Atkins stats away from Coors field, I had a few thoughts. Is his numbers that much worse than say Beltre or Kouzmanoff…players who have been mentioned, by some here, that the Twins should obtain. Some have stated that he hit an ugly .238 on the road last year. But, I think a bigger sampling says he hit about the same as beltre and better than Kouzmanoff.
Atkins (2006-2008) away from Coors:
927 AB .266/.337/.453 with a .790 OPS
Beltre (2006-2008):
1771 AB .270/.325/.468 with a .793 OPS
Kouzmanoff (2006-2008):
1164 AB .264/.311/.442 with a .753 OPS
Of course theirs many other factors, such as Beltre being the much better fielder. Plus, how much would the Twins have to give up, how long the player would be with us and how much the contract would cost…etc.
Nothing wrong with a one year rental if what you give up for him is money or players you have no need of. Im too lazy to look it up but are you saying that Chili Davis and Kenny Rogers only cost the Twins money/talent comparable to what they’d have to give up for Beltre?
Bill Hall will probably platoon with Mike Lamb - Hall:.306 against lhp and under .200 vs rhp, Lamb: .299 against rhp and under .100 against lhp. However this probably means that Hardy might be more available unless they plan on using Escobar at 2B and dump/bench Ricky Weeks.
I’m gonna say this again. Why not get Furcal? He was not offered arbitration so we would not lose draft picks. Decent fielder, plus offense for a SS. Came back strong from back surgery. He won’t be cheap and will command 4 years, but I don’t see the down side.
What taking so long getting Punto signed? Don’t the twins realize how important his defense is? He best defense player on team.
He had back surgery and supposedley it could continue to be a problem.
Skips,
He sure made a good showing for about 30 or 40 games after he came back. We can sure rest him with our current roster.
Paul - because we won’t (at least I won’t) spend over 11 mill on an injury-prone SS that isnt a huge upgrade over what we already have (guys like Tolbert and Harris, and Tolleson on his way).
I like Furcal, but I get why a team like the Twins want to pass on a 4 year deal for a guy with some injury questions- a reinjured back could cripple our ability to have any future flexability with our payroll.
Really our options are (1) Sign (or make a low cost trade) a stopgap at either 3b or SS (or both) until younger guys (Valencia, Hughes, Tolleson, etc) earn a spot. or (2) make a cost heavy deal for a long-term fix at one of the two positions.
#1 is more likly. Mainly because I think the Twins like their young guys. But also because teams are not likely to give up young ML ready players.
medschoolmatt,
1) He’s not injury prone. Before 08 his only other injury shortened year was 01 when he played 79 games. Other than that he averages about 150 games.
2) From what I read about his situation the years are the big issue. I think he can be got for 8 to 10 million. He’s not cheap because he shouldn’t be.
3) Carreer numbers of: 286 avg, 352 obp, 412 slg, 12 to 15 hr, 50+ rbi, and 30+ sb from the leadoff spot AND decent defense is not an upgrade?
Any trades fouthcoming Lavelle? What is going on.. The twins need to do something. They need power in there line up…… Trade Cuddyer……..
OK, here is the deal:
the Twins really have a 2-year window to make it happen before their club-controlled players go through the roof (2009 and 2010) Arguably if they were willing to get one of their minor league catchers as the backup next season instead of re-signing AARP card holder Redmond for next year it might have been better (but that’s another story)
If they were to meet their 2007 payroll in 2009, they have about $15-20 mil to spend. And if there were to trade Cuddaver (thanks sane) for a prospect, that’s an extra $6.75 mil.
Add it up. It can happen (only the Indians might have improved, but that’s after signing Wood, in the division) but they need right hand power bats
Hi Lavelle,
Any trades going to happen for the twins? I am tired of them never getting a high priced free agent…
Trade Cuddyer.
keep boof in the bullpen. trade cuddy and blackburn for beltre(get him signed for about3-4 years. keep young(watch his stats improve), then get back to me.
Many of the comments just reveal that the individuals never actually watch the Twins.
Anyone who watches and is awake knows that injuries are what held Blackburn back early in his career.
Now that he is injury free, he may be untouchable as a starter in the rotation.
I have to agree with the best management team in baseball on this one.
Keep your core five and deal one of the up an coming pitchers. We have them in abundance.
Trade Cuddyer……. He didn’t do a damn thing last year. Maybe we can get a pitcher for him a a power hitter.
Gleeman is saying on Rotoworld that after hearing Gardy today and interviewing Bill Smith tonight that he does not see Delmon Young on the Twins roster on opening day.
Cripst… selling low in a market full of corner outfielders. Hopefully there is some sucker out there. We better get more than Jason Donald for him…
I think Cuddy for Beltre would be a fine trade. Let’s getter done.
No one wants an overpayed Cuddy. Trading him would only be a salary dump.
Watch we trade Young and he hits 40 HR’s and gets 140 RBI’s….
Ryan,
What are you talking about… He has a great arm……… He is a good hitter. I bet a lot of teams would like him……
MDB - are you insane? yes lets trade Cuddy, but who in their right mind would take on that contract for an average RF?
I just think the twins need to get power in there line up……..
medford,
What do you mean? He is a great player. Trade Cuddy….. He doesn’t do anything for the team….. I don’t think he adds anything to the twins. Trading him for a power hitter would be great.
I’d say there’s a huge difference between Atkins and Beltre.
2006:
Atkins(home): .346/.416/.583/.999
Beltre (home): .251/.310/.467/.778
Atkins (away): .313/.402/.531/.933
Beltre (away): .283/.343/.462/.806
2007:
Atkins (home): 349/.409/.527/.936
Beltre (home): .264/.319/.426/.745
Atkins (away): .254/.327/.446/.773
Beltre (away): .288/.320/.538/.858
2008:
Atkins (home): .342/.380/.523/.904
Beltre (home): .240/.303/.400/.703
Atkins (away): .233/.278/.383/.661
Beltre (away): .292/.349/.512/.862
You can easily tell that Atkins is greatly helped by Coors field. Look at the gigantic difference in Atkins home and away stats. And it’s not like he’s getting more AB’s in one or the other, it’s about the same. Atkins makes up for his horrible hitting outside of Coors by hitting .350 in it. We don’t have thin air in Minnesota and we play in the toughest hitters park in the AL. He might benefit from the turf the first year but that’s it. Atkins is in the best (or close to it) hitters park in the NL.
Beltre is better away then at home, his home park is a pitchers park. Beltre’s home park again would be a pitchers park but at least he could make up his stats by hitting better away, which is what he does already. Atkins has had one good season, 2006. Beltre has had multiple and he’s a better glove.
I’m pretty scared of Atkins coming here because hitting .240/.300/.400/.700 with 10-15 HR’s isn’t going to cut it at probably 6 million dollars, with no range either. He won’t have the ability to make it up in away stats unless it’s a miracle. He also plays in the NL, where the talent isn’t as overpowering.
At most, I see Atkins putting up Brendan Harris numbers, why would we trade anyone for another Harris? Harris is about 5 million dollars cheaper too. Harris had 100 less AB’s away but he was equal to or better than nearly everything Atkins put up away. Harris just didn’t hit as many HR’s.
how long do we think we can keep our core five pithers around with our thrifty minded management? it is time for management to step up to the plate and show us fans who are still awake that they can pull the trigger once in awhile. how far you think the twins could have gone last year with beltre in the lineup?
We can keep them a couple of years, and trade them off as their value increases.
I am about to type something odd: I agree with thrylos the Twins have a small window here. In addition to arbitration concerns, they have Nathan not getting younger and their best hitter is a catcher (a position that generally breaks down quickly).
A couple of things.
1. There’s no question the Twins have to hang on to all five of their current starters. With a full rotation, the Twins will have a significant advantage over the Indians and White Sox who both currently only have 3 spots in their rotations locked in.
2. I don’t believe for a second that the Rockies are “in no hurry” to move Garrett Atkins. They went from from the World Series to near the cellar in the worst division in baseball. The fact that they’ve shown interest in Slowey, Span, and Delmon Young shows they are VERY interested in making a deal.
3. The Twins erred big time in letting Casey Blake get away. Blake would have been a big upgrade over Buscher and the Twins would not have lost anything in the transaction.
4. Joe Crede should now be the #1 goal along with upgrading the bullpen.
Columbo:
Though your point is fair about Atkins hitting about the same as Kouzmanoff overall, you’re forgetting that Kouzmanoff’s home park (Petco) is one of the most pitcher-friendly parks in the game. This is what you should be looking at for Kouz:
Home .226/.268/.390
Away .292/.329/.473
Even though the Dome is supposedly one of the worst parks to hit in, it’s definitely more hittier-friendly than Petco.
However, Kouzmanoff walked a startlingly low 23 times all year (Gomez had 25, for comparison), compared to 139(!) strikeouts. Those numbers have nothing to do with the park.
Lets discuss these splits for Atkins a little further since everyone seems to think Coors Field is the ONLY reason he can hit.
Do you all really think the ball travels so well in Coors Field that it accounts for 100 point difference in his BA? Do you really believe that?
Bottom line is a LOT of major leaguers hit better at home than away. He is one of those guys. That doesn’t mean he wouldn’t hit well in Minnesota. Maybe a little less, but he will still rake.
The guy can flat hit. If Coors is such a big difference I am surprised everyone isn’t hitting 100 points better at Coors.
gw, you are right to say we should hang on to our starters, but who is too say what condition our fab five will be in 2 years. but if they are at least a 500 average pitcher, with an era of 4.00, they will be pitching for somebody in mlb. we do have prospects in the minors, but i do not think they could land us a solid player now.
I’ll keep saying it until I’m blue in the face - we can sit here and box the clown all day on what-ifs, the only sure things are this -
-The Twins are on the hook for around 167 mil for the stadium
-They made at least 30-40 mil of that back last year, likely more due to 15 mil less in payroll (claiming they “broke even” in 2007), increased revenues from attendance and ESPECIALLY their cut from MLB media.
That allows them to probably -
-Do nothing at these meetings (unless it’s a swap of young controlled players) and sign someone desperate in Jan for bullpen help and SS or 3B.
-Sign a FA so payroll will “rise” to around 60 mil, and they’ll still pocket a significant amount and put it against the stadium.
Business first people, always has been. I’d love to be wrong.
Chris-
1. Swarzak or Dunsing (maybe even Mulvey) could replace Perkins without much drop off. So I do not buy that we “need” to keep all 5 starters.
2. I agree, they would love to move Atkins but only if they get a return. Unfortunatly, they have grossly overestimated his worth, a la Seattle. (Imagine those two teams trying to make a deal)
3. Maybe- I mostly agree, but not giving Blake 3 years is understandable. We keep saying the Twins do not learn on their signings of old vets that are over the hill, but at least they are usually 1 year deals. (The only exception I can come up with is Lamb was a 2 year deal, I think).
4. I dont know about #1 goal, but I like the idea of a healthy Joe Crede at 3B next season.
well, from what I can remember, Rondell white was a 1 + 1; guy gets injured and doesnt even play that well when he was healthy, and we pick up his option anyway. so essentially that was a 2 year deal too.
i agree with jhawk. carl polad is no dummy. he knows the ins and outs of business. it is time for carl to give us a bone, and go out and get a player that makes sense. if that means he has to spend a little money, so be it.
One more thing kids - from the 12/4 KC Star - read that last line of the article a few times.
—–
Royals owner David Glass has an easy explanation for the anticipated increase of 20 percent or more in the club’s payroll for the 2009 season.
“You just put money in,” he said with a chuckle. “It’s simple.”
The increase figures to boost the Royals to about $70 million — nearly $12 million more than last season’s franchise-record $58.2 million — and comes at a time when several teams are trimming payrolls because of concerns over the economy.
Glass cites two reasons for the increase:
•The Royals are making measurable progress in their rebuilding plan after winning 75 games last season and escaping last place in the American League Central for the first time since 2003.
•A sign of good faith to the fan base upon completion of $250 million in public-funded renovations to Kauffman Stadium.
—–
2008 Twins attendance - 2,302,431 (highest since ‘92)
2008 Royals attendance - 1,578,922
Which club feels the need to show a sign of good faith?
I think White was a 1+1 but we declined his option then resigned him for less money… but we are splitting hairs
why does the strib send a reporter to the winter meetings anyway? the twins never do anything and just posture and think they can low-ball free agents and teams looking to trade. every year it’s the same thing. their GM is in over his head, that’s apparent after over a year in the job. i don’t care how nice of a guy he is.
jhawk90,
I can understand a show of good faith. Sorry, Twins fans DID NOT do likewise while they were pocketing benefits from 25+ years one of the worst sports leases in history.
I guess a little show of good faith is 25 years too late, and NOW complaining you still aren’t on the gravy train.
Regards,
Trade Steve from Fridley and Thrylos98!
David Glass may be the only richer owner in baseball than Pohlad. Glass, I believe, is the son in law of Sam Walton. So as one of the richest men in the world, I think he can handle it.
Not to apologize for Pohlad’s 2.5 billion dollars…
jhawk90,
comparing the Twins to bottom feeders won’t cut it.
How about posting the same figures against the Yankees and the Red Sox?
will the new stadium hold 3 million fans ?? well carl, why don’t you be sure, and LETS MAKE A DEAL!!
we all know the yankees and the red soxs along with the cubs and the mets have better tv contracts than we could ever dream about. do you think mlb will revenue share like the nfl?? no way in heck. it isi what is is. so carl, lets make a deal
Thrylos - hardly a fair comparison (both the east coast dream teams spend an obscene amount of money because a) just because they can (absurd TV deals and huge fan base) and b) they know the fans like big names and they have a subpar farm system.
BS needs to go to Pohlad and say “dude, even KC is increasing payroll and they suck! we can win the whole thing NOW if we sign/trade for a couple good hitters and a starter/bullpen guy. what do you say old man?’
of course put more eloquently than that
Quit worrying so much about which 3B the Twins will trade for or sign. It will be a SS. Other than Plouffe (& he may be shifted to 3B), the pickings are pretty sparse in the minors for the home team. There are least some options for 3B already in the system. Our best SS prospect currently starts at 2B. IF a trade is made & it is a big IF, it will be centered around SS.
i do think we can win games, with our current lineup. we will be competitive, as usual, with our current lineup. i also believe we will NOT go to the post season with our current lineup. whether we improve at 3b, ss, 2b, i dont care.
whoever we get at whatever position, we need to make some changes. he needs to hit and he needs to field, that is all i can ask for.
For how many years would the Twins have Atkins under contract?
Also, his OBP last year really stunk.
Span and Slowey??? Does the Rockies GM live in never never land???
I know Orlando Hudson is out there still, and his price tag isn’t crazy steep….Blackburn and the minor league they want(or Delmon), we get Atkins, move Casilla to short. O-Hud is an unbelievable defender. I’d be hard pressed to believe Mulvey, Humber, Duensing, or Swarzak can’t turn into what Blackurn is.
Span-LF
Hudson-2B
Mauer-C
Morneau-1B
Atkins-3B
Kubel-DH
Cuddyer-RF
Casilla-SS
Gomez-CF
That would be a nice lineup. A lot of speed, and some more pop.
Maybe Twin could acquire and offer up Carlos Silva again?
According to the fielding bible, Atkins is the 2nd poorest fielding 3rd baseman in all the bigs over the past 3 years. He also had a .661 OPS away from Coors. The Twins would be foolish to trade for a guy who can’t field and struggles to hit away from the Mile High City.
Why are people saying Uggla’s a bad fielder? Is it because ESPN made a 1 hr special about his two errors in the All-Star Game?
Atkins is better than Lamb. That’s all that matters. If they had Garrett Atkins on their team last year they would have made the playoffs.
The price of Slowey and Span does seem a little steep given that we don’t know how good Atkins will be out of Coors, but then again Slowey and Span are far from proven.
