Updates from Day 3
Posted on December 10th, 2008 – 1:42 PMBy La Velle
Not a whole lot new to report. This usually is the toughest day to gather information. The annual baseball writers meeting took place this morning and the managers’ luncheon begins in about 20 minutes.
I do have a couple nuggets:
The Twins and Phillies both want Mark DeRosa. But the Phillies don’t have the pitching the Twins have to send the Cubs. The Phillies are having trouble signing Jamie Moyer back and night need pitching.
But if the Phillies don’t get DeRosa, Nick Punto appears to be their next option.
Delmon Young remains on the Phillies radar - but not in the central area.
271 Responses to "Updates from Day 3"
I actually wouldn’t mind DeRosa, provided the price was right. I think he still has some productive year(s) left.
Two benefits to DeRosa, Twins get a good player and the Phillies get Punto!
DeRosa and Kouz. Max that we would have to give up is Perk, Kuebel and a prospect.
Giving up Young instead of Kuebel would be a bad trade, considering he should bring back alot more when in a package like THAT.
If you give up Kuebel its a plus in a couple of ways. It allows Young to move back to Rf which is less tricky to field then Lf at the Dome. Also taking away as much pressure in the field would allow Young to concentrate on hitting. Third, this would allow the Twinks to keep Cuddy healthy by having him Dh. So in essence, you add a solid healthy Cuddy, allow for Delmon to grow, and add two good right handed bats in Kouz and DeRosa. Is that not what the Twins have been looking for anyways?
And at least to me, in order to acheive this, a package of Kuebel, Perk and Mulvey is realistic, and you get good return on it, keeping most if not all of your pieces together for 09.
Additionally, you get the plus that if DeRosa has another solid season and decides not to resign, the Twins could get 2 1st rounders as well.
How does this NOT sound like a win/win?
Would you think that the Twins if obtaining DeRosa would negotiate a longer contract with him?? I hate to think of giving up players for a one year rental of him. Beltre possibly but not DeRosa.
I would like to see him at second next year and sliding Casilla over if we cannot get a shortstop or a thirdbaseman. Then let our platoon play at third.
The problem is, according to what I have read, that DeRosa is only signed for one year still…
I am beginning the Mark DeRosa fan club. Feel free to hop on board.
AJ, as a Twins fan in Chicago, I’ve been on that wagon for years.
I would be very surprised if the Twins gave up any top tier, or really even middle tier, pitching talent in exchange for one year of DeRosa. It’s just not how the team usually operates, and I’m thankful for that. I’d rather stand pat with the pitching we have now than make a short-sighted deal and regret it later — but I’m not really worried about that because it would be so out of character for this team that it’s unlikely to happen.
Dwade.
Im suprised as a Twins fan in the ‘Go, that you weren’t strapped to the back of that said wagon! Great to here we have good supporters in enemy grounds though! Keep it up!
He’s alright, I suppose. Nothing to get too worked up over.
I hope there is more method to the madness of the Twins FO strategy, but I suspect not. A lot of Twins personnel decisions (from management and manager both) seem based on loyalty, gut instinct, cheapness, reaction, and “gamer”ness. I would like to see more decisions based on statistical analysis and a plan. (For example, why doesn’t the hitting coach preach plate discipline to match the pitching coach?)
Wouldn’t it be nice, for once, to be in the running for a legitimate free agent signing?
I could see the twins giving Punto, a Morneau like contract to keep him.
Why not play DeRosa at 2nd; move Casilla over to SS and platoon at 3rd with Harris/Buscher? Tolbert the super utility man w/ speed. A younger Punto.
Punto to Phillies…….
And trade Thyrlos98 and Steve from Fridley……..
Why would a small market team like the Twins ever be interested in a making a “legitimate” (read:expensive) free agent signing? What good would it do for the team to destroy itself just to say they signed a high dollar player? I think DeRosa, Grudzelanek etc.. would be a good signing that would make a pretty good team that much better.
I am onboard AJ.
We can’t continue with these negotiations of players with ONE YEAR left on their contract!
If we do get him, we better have a good shot at resigning him.
La Velle
Get us in on the peavy deal, please. use that charm of yours…
If getting Derosa means punto isn’t starting at short next year I am all over that.
This is not a move the Twins will make guys… Sorry, wont happen.
The Twins will not trade any decent/young prospects for a 33 year old coming off a career year. It makes no sense. WE WOULD BE BUYING HIGH!!! The only thing that brings the value of DeRosa down is that he will test FA at the end of 2009. That is a huge deterrent here but not in most markets. That being said, if there are others interested in DeRosa, the value will be very high for him.
WHO IS MARK DEROSA ANYWAY??? I don’t mean that literally… What I mean is he is not a HR hitter. He is an above average fielder with above average on-base skills. That is it.
DO NOT GO OUT OF YOUR WAY TO GET HIM… 2nd tier minor leaguer at best. We are doing the Cubs a favor by even getting involved but the guys that SD would want for Peavy to get shipped to Chicago better not be leaving the Twin Cities anytime soon. We need some power behind M&M. Wigginton is a much better option from a power perspective. The cost should be about the same for either Wiggs or DeRosa.
Don’t do it Twins!
This is fascinating and frustrating at the same time, so many names but you never know whats true. I like DeRosa I would think they could sign him to an extension if they obtain him. I like Punto a little but like someone else said we have Tolbert which is like Punto, we need another hitter which DeRosa would give us.
If I had to choose between getting DeRosa or Kouzmanoff I would take Kouz.
If their going to trade Young trade Cuddy too then sign Burrell for Cuddy type money. Burrell would definately provide more bang for the buck!
DeRosa is one of the better second baseman in baseball - based on his last two years, he is considered an “A” type player: http://www.sportscity.com/MLB/Elias-MLB-Rankings-Relief-Pitchers
The Cubs need to move him so to say they would be buying high isn’t entirely true. If they don’t move him or someone else (Marquis, Yeah right) then they can’t land Peavy.
http://www.bleedcubbieblue.com/
“Milton Bradley? Possibly. (Ugh.) Also from that link, the “Cubs might trade Z” rumor mentioned there is false, as is the Mark DeRosa to the Phillies talk”
Looks like there might not be as much to the DeRosa/Phillies talk. Hopefully this gives the Twins a real shot at a DeRosa/Kouz deal
It would be nice to see the Twins take action before they have to rummage through the bargain bins again. I just want them to do something.
I agree Jama if they can only land one I hope its Kouz.
Twins get sloppy 4ths… if lucky..
While general manager Jim Hendry said he spoke to representatives of three or four free agents Tuesday on the second day of baseball’s winter meetings, the Jake Peavy rumors continue to take center stage. Hendry declined to comment on talk that Mark DeRosa was headed to Philadelphia for pitching prospects that would be sent to San Diego to complete a potential Peavy deal, but Phillies sources insisted a deal was in place and ready to go if the Cubs decide to pull the trigger with the Padres. While nothing appears imminent, the Cubs have done enough groundwork on the Peavy deal to pull it off quickly. According to the San Diego Union-Tribune, Jason Marquis would replace Sean Marshall in the package going to the Padres, with the Cubs eating more than half of his $9.8 million salary. The Phillies would send two pitching prospects to the Padres while acquiring DeRosa from the Cubs.
Chicago Tribune
How about this we send Perkins,Bonser,Duesing and Cuddyer to the Cubs, Cubs send Gaudin and DeRosa to the Twins and the Cubs send Perkins,Bonser,Duesing to the Padres plus what ever they need to Add to get Peavey and the Padres send Kouzmanoff to the Twins. Young goes to RF Casilla to SS Kouzmanoff to 3b and Gaudin to the BP and Punto can go pound sand.
David, I know it’s Christmas, but… LOL
I’m not sure what they’re doing in San Diego! Kouz would be great!! Why don’t the Padres want their young power hitting 3B?
I know but I just wanted to make people laugh. I would be happy if that would work than maybe people would get off Bill Smiths back.
“I’m not sure what they’re doing in San Diego! Kouz would be great!! Why don’t the Padres want their young power hitting 3B?”
Chase Headley is ready to take over at 3B for San Diego and Kouzmanoff is blocking him.
A little unknown by the name of Chase Headly. A very high upside 3b who projects WAY higher then Kouz.
I would be very excited if we could pry DeRosa and Kouz away… depending on what we give up. One starter (Perkins or Blackburn), two or three pitching prospects, and the price is right. Get it done.
We know Span and/or Gomez and Casilla can get on base and set the table, so why not set our sights a bit higher for a major run producer at third??? Why are we not talking about Adrian Beltre or Miguel Tejada, Jason Giambi or even Troy Glaus?
Once in a while it wouldn’t hurt the twins to over pay for a quality player. If you add up all the hacks we wasted money on over the last 5-6 years we could of had some kick butt players here.
“Not a whole lot new to report.”
I don’t mean to diminish La Velle’s great reporting and the importance of this event, but doesn’t that sum up every winter meetings from the Twins perspective?
derosa is not the answer, let him go to the phils so we can resign punto.
This infield discussion is so boring and nonsensical. GM needs to think out of the box to improve club. Stop looking at obv weaknesses that may not be weaknesses.
If you can upgrade your pitching at a reasonable price you do it. Yes we have a nice core, but one based on a rebuilt arm and youth. Don’t be so cocky about the staff.
Go Get Peavey!
As long as the fans fill the stands the owners have to reason to spend more to get a quality team. That’s the problem. Put Ziggy in charge and we would be in the World Series in a year.
I would say last years winter meetings were quite eventful…
We aren’t going to get Peavy and it would be stupid to try so get over it.
Skips - it wouldnt be stupid to try except for the fact that he seems stubborn to not come here (which is unfortunate). we have the pieces to get him, its just Peavy that would block the trade, not the SD GM. Having Peavey along with Baker, Slowey and Liriano would maek for a pretty sick rotation.
Yanks get their man at a cost…
LAS VEGAS — On Tuesday the Mets made headlines at the winter meetings by signing closer Francisco Rodriguez to a three-year deal. On Wednesday, the Yankees went bigger, handing out a seven-year, $161 million deal — the largest contract ever for a pitcher — to CC Sabathia.
Kouz is just coming into his own, now is the time to get him. We trade for him and ofer him a long term deal then we don’t have to worry at the hot corner(his D was much improved last year) and we add right handed pop!
PLUS HE’S NOT OLD!!!!!!
THIS IS A SUPREMELY TALENTED YOUNG TEAM LET’S NOT VEER FROM THAT COURSE AND BRING IN WORN OUT VETERANS!!
Jama, wouldn’t they just move Headly to 3B?
Peavy is not worth it. Take him out of Petco and put him in the big boys league and he is not worth that contract especially when his elbow concerns are taken into consideration.
Peavy wants to go to a big market team that can afford to re-sign him in the future.
I don’t even know who headly is.
just being honest
Why not Blackburn or Perkins for Donald. Keep Delmon and maybe put Cuddyer at third even if he doesnt want to play it. THen groom Donald at SS in AAA and have Harris and Tolbert platoon this year at short. This will give time for Hughes or Valencia to mature and then Cuddyer can get shipped next year for a low prospect.
2010 line-up
Span RF
Cassialla 2b
Mauer C
Morneau 1B
Donald SS
Kubel DH
Young LF
Valencia/Hughes 3B
Gomez CF
Rotation
Liriano
Baker
Slowey
Perkins/Blackburn
Duesing/Humber/Swarzik/Manship/Mulvey(take your pick).
Please comment on my suggestion.
Don’t the Padres have some guy coming up that Kouz is blocking?
Chase Headly of the Padres
peavy is signed for a few years so being in a big market now matters little. A big check up front gets it done. We should write with all that money we saved last year plus the new stadium money. It would still be a good deal as his contract just got much cheaper with the sabathia deal.
Skippy - you are a moron for saying it is not worth it!
Yanks stocking up…
Jon Heyman of SI.com reports that the Yankees are close to signing Derek Lowe to a four-year deal worth between $68 and $72 million.
“The Twins are reportedly trying to become the third team in the Padres-Cubs talks regarding Jake Peavy, and have come up with a package of young players in hopes of luring Mark DeRosa from Chicago. But a Cubs source said Wednesday the versatile DeRosa is staying put and not going to be dealt.” - MLBlogs
Buckshort,
There are some glaring issues with that. First, Donald projects to be a 3b. Ask and gm with a sane ability to scout. Second, Hughes just might be the worst fielder this side of “Off my head” Canseco. Good future with bat, actually awesome future. But the man looks destined to play Dh/1b. Third, I can understand giving up Perk in this situation, however after what Blackburn showed in a game that mattered the world (1-0 loss to sox), you cannot give up on that big game poise. Remeber, Beckett was a good pitcher, but the big gmae is where he made his name.
buckshotmike…
What year are you looking at there 2010?
Look at the numbers away from petco add .3 to the era for coming to the AL and then consider that his elbow has been trouble, look at his violent delivery, take a gander at his performance in big games, and then tell me he is worth it. He is highly overrated and for how much money is left on his contract to rip out the farm system and take on that money could be a crippling move for the twins.
Cubs: DeRosa is staying put
The Twins are reportedly trying to become the third team in the Padres-Cubs talks regarding Jake Peavy, and have come up with a package of young players in hopes of luring Mark DeRosa from Chicago. But a Cubs source said Wednesday the versatile DeRosa is staying put and not going to be dealt.
The Cubs, Philies and Padres are still talking about a potential deal, but there is no timetable. There also is no pressure on the Cubs to get something done.
http://hotstove.mlblogs.com/archives/2008/12/cubs_derosa_is_staying_put.html
Wow, Yanks give out $230m in one day and the Twins owners won’t spend $1-2m more to get a good player… Sigh!
“derosa is not the answer, let him go to the phils so we can resign punto.
This infield discussion is so boring and nonsensical. GM needs to think out of the box to improve club. Stop looking at obv weaknesses that may not be weaknesses.”
It really makes me laugh that “thinking outside the box” means resigning Punto. Whoa! Calm down, Kirby Lives. That’s crazy!!
Also, understand that trading for Peavy would not be at a “reasonable cost”. We’d probably have to give up AT LEAST Hicks and Liriano. Peavy is a pipe dream and not worth it anyway.
This thing just gave me Drewski’s information…
You have to love privacy
Well, this forces the Redsox to make a splash…
yeah and fixing the infield will do wonders against the evil empire…
Too funny you chumps
Nats are offering (supposedly) 10 yrs at over $20M per for Texeria… Are they nuts? and the Orioles are said to be offering 9 yrs at about $20M per…
ludicrous, the guy is good, but barely broke 15th in slugging pct this past year… what did the Angels do in the post season? oh yeah, lost.
the last post by “Steeks” was mine… what the h e l l?
lol BC.
not gonna get much off of that. Other then an email address where you can send messages about more Twins related stuff.
Hey BC, what do you write?
Well considering Tex hit .400+ in the playoffs I don’t think it was his fault…
I got a friend whose friend is a scout for the Twins. He said our starting SS next year is Nick Punto, and 3rd base will be a Harris/Buscher platoon.
This same guy told me about the Delmon Young trade the morning before it was announced so…..
Hope he’s wrong, but he’s been very reliable in the past
Patrick,
Hicks can’t be traded this year.
Thank God for the rules!
i didn’t say it was, but for teams like the Nats and O’s, I dont think a power hitting 1B will solve their problems, and especially at $20M per year for the next decade… he’ll be 29 in April of this next season… and I say he steadily declines over the next 2-3 yrs, as does almost every ballplayer.
Drewski-
“DeRosa and Kouz. Max that we would have to give up is Perk, Kuebel and a prospect.”
Are you SERIOUSLY a Twins fan, or are you just some poseur? Have you EVER watched DeRosa and “Kouz” play? Or, do you just look at some offensive stat sheet and remember hearing the name somewhere.
A fact: Jason Kubel is one of the best #6 hitters in the AL. Cuddyer is your #5, not Kubel, and last year Kubel did the best job he could of covering for an oft-injured #5 hitter. But Kubel is a very good #6 guy.
Perkins? For “Kouz”? You know nothing about baseball if you suggest something like this. “Kouz” (You two must be really tight) has a glove made of lead, and he’ll never cut it in the AL offensively. I know. I live part-time in SD. I’ve followed this loser closely.
You need something more than ESPN’s stat sheet to decide on players, and any trade with SD, a worthless team last year, is a step down the ladder.
sane-
thanks. And seriously. Thank God for the rules and thank God Kirby Lives isn’t our Gm.
For Peavy it would then take at least Revere and Liriano.
Jim -
A little of this, and a little of that. I’ve written songs, and poetry, speeches, and I’m trying my hand at novel writing, but I’m a net addict so I’m not doing a very good job lately, lol.
I’ve got a friend…I love it when information being passed starts like that!
Does anyone else think that if we make that three team trade we are getting the WORST player involved? I hope we get prospects too. One of our starters is more valuable than DeRosa is going to be, and Peavy is a top 5 pitcher in the league…
How about:
Cubs get: Peavey & Kouzmanoff
Padres get: Perkins, Mulvey, Young
Twins get: Aramis Ramirez
Not enough for Padres?
La Velle must still be at the buffet table… no updates…
BC, yep very time consuming. I write for a living so it is do or die at times…
I love how so many of you are so anxious to unload important/instrumental “no-name” Twins players that provided a very good season last year, just to acquire some has-beens and never-really-will-bes with big market names.
To suggest that players like Kubel, Perkins, Slowey, or Liriano should be traded for some half-ass SS or 3B with a name…whatever.
Why are the Royals hot after Furcal? Their current shortstop Aviles is a stud.
Jake,
say what you want, but that info is from an advance Twins scout currently in Vegas.
I doubt the Indians or Tigers will tank again this year. We need to improve…
Jim,
I also have another business, but this week has been dead… so I should be writing, but I love baseball too damn much to get anything accomplished… it’s sad.
Lala, to get something decent you have to give up something decent. I wouldn’t be totally upset if the Twins didn’t make any moves because they have a pretty decent team but a power upgrade could make them a great team.
The Twins should jump at the chance to dump Punto off to the Phillies. Maybe they would take Cuddyer too. If the Twins would throw in Bonser, it would be a great thing for the Twins future. It really doesn’t matter who the Twins get, as long as they dump those three turkeys before the start of the 2009 season.
Dark Horse Trade:
We make a deal with Orioles for Roberts or Sherel. Not saying its going to happen, just saying its possible and has probablly been discussed.
Easy turbo, it just sounded funny…especially with some of the jokers you get on these blogs.
Jon,
That scout won’t be employed much longer when the FO realizes he is blabbing Corporate secure information to his friends.
Lala,
Sometimes we disagree.
I think that if we can get DeRosa and Kouzmanoff in a deal that wouldn’t deplete the team too much…
Perkins, Young, and a couple of prospects… Humber comes into the rotation, the outfield is set with Pridie in the wings if need be, and Casilla is brought to SS.
Span
Casilla
Mauer
Morneau
Cuddyer
Kubel
Kouzmanoff
DeRosa
Gomez
Liriano, Baker, Blackburn, Slowey, Humber
Patrick,
You obv have no clue how to value players. A deal for peavy would not require liriano you moron. They want prospects and volume. We have the prospects to make a deal happen. Get a clue man before spouting off.
Personally I hope he’s very wrong, but he hasn’t been in the past, and I know he’s at the Bellagio this week
Looks good BC. I would be more than happy with that.
No they want MLB ready pitchers meaning some of our current five or a handful of the guys at AAA. Kirby let it go Peavy is not worth it and it isn’t going to happen. The twins don’t want him or his contract and he wants nothing to do with the twins so quit beating the dead horse and let it go.
LaLa,
Actually i’ve lived in MN, Mass and Tex throughout my life but have been a Twins fan my whole life. Kouzmanoff does have horrendous defense at 3rd, i agree completely. However I have also been following DeRosa since Texas, and he has been the guy waiting for a chance to play full time, and look what he did last year with it. The thing that i’ve noticed about Kouz’s D is his range. He’s a statue. However, the balls he can get to hes not as much of a liability as most ppl seem to want to say. The only reason id be okay with him is the fact he has always had the upside of plus power. 23 homers in a season where 81 games are played at one the worst power park in baseball is solid. Being that the dome is known as a hitters park, at least for this year one would have to assume 30 hrs for him is not out of the question. And ask any Twinks fan when the last time we had that? As for his BAvg, we have two of the better hitters in MLB history as hitting mentors here in Rod Carew and Paul Molitor. If Kouzmanoff is willing to learn, they could teach him ALOT. This is the same crew that taught Morneau to drop a bit of power, but become one of the AL’s better hitters when in the clutch. The reason why i would be okay to give up Perk is simple. The only thing that didn’t give off red flags about him last season was his W-L totals. And as every strong Twins fan knows, a majority of his wins came because he was given 7 plus runs of support per start, in a smaller way, but remember last year this was a team that gave Livan 10 wins.
kirby lives-
Why so angry? Relax. We should be able to disagree without you getting your panties in a twist. I think it would take more than a couple prospects and you think it wouldn’t. You also think we should resign Punto though so I’m not sure how valid your opinion is.
Drew - the dome was ranked (I forget where) as one of the hardest places to hit is contrary to what you said. excellent points otherwise though.
if Punto cost 2 mill and was not going to start, yah I’d love him back.
the fact he’s going for 4 mill and Gardy demands he starts? no thanks.
the twins never do anything except posture and make low-ball offers for free agents and teams looking to trade. what’s the point? if the biggest move this week is to re-sign nick punto than that’s just embarrassing. but they’ll hype it like they actually did something to fill obvious holes on the team. we’re investing in their revenue generating ballpark, we expect more than an overachieving team who can compete when the division is down.
I’m sure some of you saw this today, Rob Neyer’s blog….
“I’m not exactly sure about this “depth” Gardenhire is talking about [in the outfield]. It’s certainly true that the Twins have four outfielders who saw significant action last season. It’s also true that those four outfielders combined for 26 home runs, and that the Twins finished last in the American League with 111 homers. If the Twins had any money to spend, their first priority would (or should) be finding a corner outfielder with real power.
But that’s not going to happen. And while Cuddyer might be that guy, it doesn’t seem likely. Yes, he did hit 24 homers in 2006. And no, he’s not really as bad as his .249/.330/.369 line in 2008 might suggest. But 2006 was an outlier, and Cuddyer just isn’t good enough with the bat or the glove to play every day. In fact, according to both +/- and UZR, Cuddyer is one of the worst defensive right fielders in the majors.
The Twins seem to really like Cuddyer. Fine. But he’s suited for just two roles: platoon DH (with Jason Kubel) and fourth (or fifth) outfielder. And while Delmon Young and Carlos Gomez both have obvious weaknesses, they’re both very young and do have the Twins’ beloved “tools.” Is this a championship-quality outfield? Probably not. But it’s probably the best the Twins can do, and sometimes the kids will surprise you (in a good way).”
BREAKING NEWS!!!!
there is no news except for gardy paling around with nicky.
Jon, I hope your friend’s friend is wrong, but I fear that is the most likely scenario given the FO’s track record and Gardy actively campaigning for his lil bud to come back.
The organization will then try to sell fans on the notion that resigning Punto is the greatest off-season move that they could have and did make, and the kool-aid swilling half of the public will believe it.
My new plan is to wait for the Mariners to deal JJ Putz to the Tigers for Larish and other prospects. Larish would play 3rd for the M’s which would make it easier for them to deal Beltre to us.
I’m now preaching patience. Also, DO NOT resign Nick Punto.
Matt,
To hit, yes. Did you find out how many HR opposing teams hit there? The thing you have to keep in mind Matt, is that the Twins didn’t contribute enough home runs to push the totals up as well. A lot of those hitting minuses came from the fact that the Twinks were by far and away the best team with hitting with RISP, but NOT homers. I would be interested to know if anyone can pull up stats about how many HR opposing teams hit. Also does anyone have any info on how Target Field is supposed to be? That could make a major difference in who the Twinks decide to go after as well, keep in mind.
The Twins need to revisit a possible trade with the Brewers for JJ Hardy now that CC is no longer an option for them. It would be worth it to give up considerable value to get him. It appears fairly obvious the Twins will settle to have Punto as the everyday ss.If we could obtain Hardy,no other moves would be neccessary and the Twins would be greatly improved next year and for many years.Hardy is a great improvment and not signing Punto is an addition by subtraction.
mullen’
If trading Garza, Bartlett and Santana weren’t big enough moves for you last year, I’ll see if I can get BS to do something big that will entertain you this year.
But if the Phillies don’t get DeRosa, Nick Punto appears to be their next option.
Which would make Mark DeRosa the most loved player of all time (here on the boards) and his aquisition the crown jewel of Bill Smith’s tenure (here on the boards)
Until he struck out in his first AB.
I just read that the Phillies might be willing to send JA Happ to the Padres in a three way deal to get DeRosa from the Cubs…we can’t really compete with that!
If it’s true we should pursue Jason Donald and Happ ourselves. Happ has Peavy type potential!
Even though the Twins didn’t hit alot of homers last year, they had one of the best offensive teams in baseball. It’s not always about the long ball.
LOL T, nothing else to say but LOL. Quality post.
JustinCB, Neyer is one of the smartest baseball guys out there, and what he wrote makes complete sense, I’ve been wondering why the hell we would be looking to dump Delmon after 1 year of productivity from a career minor leaguer in Span and a 30 yr old Cuddyer who’s had one good year, 2 yrs ago… both have lots to prove this season, but to say we are “stacked” in OF is not to know very much about anything…
Anyways, best thing I’ve read all day.
Jesus Colome just released by the Nats - there’s a bullpen arm for you right there. If he’s still around in Jan he’ll be a Twin.
Wouldn’t it be nice, for once, to be in the running for a legitimate free agent signing?
You mean like Casey Blake? Or does “in the running” to you mean “win”.
Also, FAs is only one way to upgrade a team. A “significant” aquisition (DeRosa/Kouz/both) would be the other.
Also, extending the contracts of key players is another way to make a splash. Like if the Twins were to extend the contracts of their All-Star first baseman and top shelf closer.
Or trading a hot pitching prospect for a hot hitting prospect.
These are all viable options to be “in the running” for significant moves. But ultimatley “in the running” to most people doesn’t count. Since they inevitably say “Well they never meant to actually do it” when things fall through.
IT,
You are correct, its NOT always about the long ball. Its about balance. The fact is they had players who could get on base, but the ability to come back from 3 or 4 run deficits is alot easier to achieve when done via the long ball. One or two players with power from the right side would give the Twins the balance and would potentially make the Twins a team not only on the cusp, but a true contender.
Why are some people still talking about Beltre? He had one great year(probably on juice) and has done nothing to make the fans in Seattle happy since he got there! His D is great but at this point he wouldn’t bring moreto the line-up than the YOUNGER Kouzmanoff.
Kouz’s FP 2008 .974
Beltre’s FP 2008 .964
Yes I realise that Beltre MAY have more range.
But when it counts, it certainly was the “long ball” that did us in…
see: Jim Thome, Solo HR… Twins lose 1-0.
Hmmm….
T…
You call Blake a major free-agent?
i think the twins might be better off just re-signing punto and going at it with the same lineup as last year.
Patrick,
If you read my rants, I said it would take span or dy and one of our 3,4 or 5 starters plus two top pitching prospects. We can do it and it is not beating a dead horse. I suspect anthony is trying like heck to figure out how he can get in on the deal.
Bill Smith WANTS to do what you guys suggest, but he needs for you to agree, exactly, what that is.
You have five minutes to come to a consensus.
Ready………..GO!
I don’t mean to diminish La Velle’s great reporting and the importance of this event, but doesn’t that sum up every winter meetings from the Twins perspective?
Didn’t they trade Bartlett and Garza during the winter meetings?
I think the Twins will pull off a trade but, like always, it will be a move that no one has really discussed.
Moving Delmon would be premature — a thought that seems to be generally agreed with on this board.
A realistic move for the Twins would include someone like Kouzmanoff, who is 27 and cheap, for now. I would hate to see them over-spend for a guy like DeRosa. He is a solid player without question, just not someone to relinquish any of our young guns for. If the Cubbies would take Manship and another mid-level, it’d be worth looking into…but to concede a guy like Glen Perkins would be foolish.
Kouz played half of his games in one of the toughest hitters parks in the league and still managed to hit 23 bombs. His plate discipline and fielding both need a lot of work but I feel like he could bring what Koskie gave the Twins in his best years. If the price was Perkins and a minor-league bat, I say go for it.
jhawk90…
Good call on Colome
Every player mentioned heretofore for Twins aquisition (with the exception of Peavy, which is a dream) is slightly above average at best. To beat the best we need a difference maker. Furcal could be that guy. We give up nothing but $$. No players or draft picks. Our only loss is LNP doesn’t get resigned. Addition by addition and addition by subtraction.
Anything new yet?
T, they did that deal right before the meetings, Nov 29th, 2007… which was a few days after Hunter signed with the Angels…
Furcal’s best years are behind him and he wants BIG money.
No consensus?
No luck!
jama: I consider Blake to be a significant free agent. Especially comparred to guys like Hernandez, Sierra, White, Everett, Lamb, and Batista (who if you recall had just got done playing in Japan for a while)
Blake has been a key player for the Indians for many years, and was highly praised by the Dodgers for his contributions to their playoff run.
I also recall last season the Strib commenters being very upset that the Twins weren’t able to make Cleveland deal with them for Blake at the deadline.
So yes, I consider Blake to be a significant signing. Which was why I found it funny that the moment the Twins were interested in him many suddenly thought he was washed-up.
But ultimately, jama, it should be clear that there’s no such thing as a “significant” player to a majority of the commenters.
Unless when you say “significant” you’re referring to those top shelf Free Agents such as Rameriez, Sabathia, and F. Rodriquez.
Kouz is the man
Billy Smith will be the man if he gets Kouz here and keeps the starting rotation intact and keeps DY!!
Paul, I liked Furcal from the start… despite his age, he was the best out there to fill a hole a SS… at first he rejected 4yrs/$36M from the A’s, meaning he wanted more… at over $10M/yr, i think it’s a tad too expensive, but if for $7-9M for 3 yrs was the going rate, I’d be for that.. however, i dont see the Twins FO doing that…
We could have had A-Rod last year.
All it would have cost us was money.
No players needed.
Cubs: DeRosa is staying put
The Twins are reportedly trying to become the third team in the Padres-Cubs talks regarding Jake Peavy, and have come up with a package of young players in hopes of luring Mark DeRosa from Chicago. But a Cubs source said Wednesday the versatile DeRosa is staying put and not going to be dealt.
The Cubs, Philies and Padres are still talking about a potential deal, but there is no timetable. There also is no pressure on the Cubs to get something done.
Per MLB.com
Sid - there’s a thought
A-Rod would have signed for maybe 25 mill per season here, our payroll would have been 80 million, only 9 more than the previous year, and we become contenders just like that…
I’m going to go on record saying I want Jesus Colome. Not because he may or may not be the best guy for the job we need him to do…but because having somebody by the name of Jesus C. on the Twins would be too awesome.
It’s too bad that Hamburger is gone. Though Shooter Hunt is hopefully going to make it up here someday.
Colome is a good pitcher from what I can tell, and the Jesus C thing makes him more than worth the 1-2 mill he’d command 
Jesus C. Saves! Passes to Moses! HE SHOOTS! HE SCORES! :p
IMO, anyone who thinks the Twins were really ‘in the running’ for Casey Blake is fooling themselves, or more precisely allowing the Twins to fool them.
If Blake wanted 5 years, the Twins would’ve offered 4. If Blake wanted 4 years, the Twins would’ve offered 3. Since he wanted 3, the Twins offered 2. Had he wanted 2, the Twins would’ve offered 1.
Allows them to pretend to us fans that they actually “tried,” but they just couldn’t get it done.
Blake signed for a total of $3.5M over the reported Twins offer. That $3.5M is spread out over 4 years.
Had the Twins been serious about Blake, that wouldn’t have stood in their way.
They were never actually “in the running” for Blake.
T…
All that was true, then Blake turned 35(soon to be 36) anything beyond a one year deal would have been foolish
Or even funnier. What if Jesus C. had a BLOWN save?!
As a die hard Cubbie Fan (are there any casual Cub fans?) I love DeRosa and believe the Twins fans will quickly become big fans. He’s hard working and plays the game it should play….not to mention the versatility he brings in being able to play the corner OF positions as well as any IF position minus C is invaluable if you all have any in season injuries which are basically guaranteed.
I’ll def be sad to see DeRo leave, but if it would be worth it if it brings the Cubs Peavy and what would almost certainly one of the best 5 man starting rotations in the leage if not ever (Peavy, Harden, Big Z, Dempster, and Lilly).
T.
We already have Baby Jesus on this roster…
Jesus C looks into Big Baby Jesus for the sign
jama,
Furcal will turn 32 Oct 24 09
Why do you say his best years are behind him? Normally SS’s improve in their early 30’s. Ala Visquel, Ozzie, Jeter, Miggy, that big guy who played all those games in a row for the Orioles, and A-rod if he was still at SS where he belongs.
USAFChief…
Thanks for all the inside info!! It’s nice to have an insider on the blog!!
DeRosa would be a good option at 3B. He is only owed 5.5 million next season and contrary to what some people (who are not even spelling Kubel correctly) say, it would only cost some pitching we dont currently need. If we can get DeRosa for Humber, Mulvey, or Anthoney Swarzak this would be a good move.
The fact is DeRosa is coming off a career year. I would expect less then what he hit last season, but not by much. Since given regular playing time back with the Rangers a few years ago DeRosa has been fairley consistent. He has good patient at bats, and is a better 3B defensively then a 2B.
I am alright with a DeRosa/Punto left side of the infield. A lot of peopl on here hate on Punto. He is as good defensively as Adam Everett was, with a much better arm, more speed, the ability to switch hit, and hit for a higher avg. Why are we complaining about an upgrade over last years Opening day SS?
The Twins have an old school approach that I applaud. Hustle at all times and play solid Defense. Punto and DeRosa are the Twins type of Blue Collar guys that I love cheer for. You need guys like that along with the likes of the Mauers and Morneau’s as well as the likes of the young speedsters of Gomez and Span.
One more opinion…Keep Delmon. Enter the season with “The Fab 5″
gobble,
I could have done without hearing that Gardy and LNP are “paling around” - makes me want to puke. I think JustinCB has some good points about Cuddyer being a 4th or 5th outfielder and I sure hope our starting OF is Span in left, Gomez in Center and Delmon in right - 3 young, talented players that will get better. Go Twins
kirby lives -
Jake Peavy is owed at least 60 million dollars over the course of the next 4 years. IF his numbers remained identical to his career numbers, he might be worth it. However, moving him out of San Diego and out of the National League would make his numbers pretty pedestrian. Regardless, Baker and Slowey posted better years last year than Peavy’s career averages, and I don’t see the point in adding that kind of payroll to duplicate what we already have.
Of course, there is always the no trade clause. Best of luck selling a guy who has just spent the past 7 years living in San Diego to pitch outside in April in Minneapolis.
Paul..
Furcal has struggled with injuries none of those other had.
I don’t think Vizquel, Ozzie, Jeter, Miggy, or Ripken “improved” in there early 30s
Furcal is just too much money. It won’t happen…signing him would make resigning Mauer (who will, undoubtedly, be much more expensive when he deal expires prior to ‘11) extremely difficult! Some of our young starters who will be arbitration eligible in the next couple of years would also be difficult to hang on to if we dish out the years and dollars that Furcal is seeking. Let’s keep this realistic, folks…
Pete D…
Good point it is rediculous that the twins don’t have a retractable roof on the new stadium! No one wants to sit in or play in the cold! I for one am not going to buy full-season tickets anymore after this year. F sitting in the cold and rain! That’s for chumps in Cleveland, Detroit, and Chicago.
you mean our mild winters won’t do it.
Dang!
Peavy is cy young material no matter what league. That’s why you do the deal. Get her done!
jama,
Furcals games played:
00-131
01-79
02-154
03-156
04-143
05-154
06-159
07-138
08-36
He’s been cleared medically and performed well in 36 games last year.
I can see no down side except more $ than the Twins like to pay and the natural health risk with any player. Thank you for listening. I’m done talking bout Furcal.
Die-hard fans weather the storm, Jama. Grab your Twins pullover, a cup of cocoa or a shot of something stiff, and get out there and enjoy some old-school, outdoor baseball!
“Peavy is cy young material no matter what league.”
And that’s where your argument falls apart. Peavy has won a Cy Young award - he pitched great in 2007. Do you know that he hasn’t got a single vote in any other year?
His numbers would drop as soon as he didn’t throw half his games in San Diego. And then they would drop again when he left the National League.
He’s a good pitcher, no doubt. But Cy Young material? That’s probably pushing it. Unless you think both Slowey and Baker were Cy Young material this year. Then perhaps he would be. But I doubt it.
Peavy has Cy Young stuff but with his pitching motion, he’s down a path toward having Joe Mays’ durability.
Cold weather games? I’m not worried, I’ll be in the club level at the bar…
Bring your hoodies!
Atta boy Mark! That’s what I’m talkin about.
Agent Adam Katz said on that his client, Nationals first baseman Dmitri Young, was not surprised that he was left unprotected for Thursday’s Rule 5 Draft.
Shawn, Ripken won the MVP when he was 30 and silver sluggers at 32 and 33 but not many players are Cal Ripken
No no I’m much to bourgois to sit in the cold and rain…especially now that I’ve got 60″ LCD at home.
thrylos -
But Ripken didn’t really improve when he turned 30. He had already won an MVP and 5 Silver Slugger awards by then.
Ok,
Here’s an option… it’s a shot in the dark…
What about Nomar Garciaparra to play 3rd base for us?
Does he have anything left?
Jama–
I can’t fault you for that. Watchin’ Dick and Bert with the fireplace pumpin’ heat, downin’ a six-pack of Honeyweiss that ran about the same price as one beer at the park…doesn’t get much better than that. I’d still prefer going to the game, but watchin it on the big screen in a recliner is an adequate alternative!
USAFChief,
The Twins are willing to give the player the money (on a per year basis).
Where the lose out (which I am glad), is they won’t go beyond the length that they feel comfortable for a given player.
One thing the Twins (and other small market teams) can’t afford is dead money.
“Does he have anything left?”
No.
jama says:
December 10th, 2008 at 4:14 pm
No no I’m much to bourgois to sit in the cold and rain…especially now that I’ve got 60″ LCD at home.
I got the 50 inch Plasma on a stand that does a 360 degree swivell with surround sound so I understand
Noarm Garciaparra is strictly a 1st baseman/PH these days and never played more than 122 games a season since he left Boston.
Nomar isn’t very nimble, BC…Probably a 1B for the duration of his playing days. I’d honestly prefer Buscher. Remember when the Twins got curious if Boone had anything left? Nomar is more of a sure thing than Bret, but he’s a glass vase balancing on the mantle — another injury waiting to happen and he’s not worth the risk.
Nomar Hmmm… I don’t know…and I’m a huge Nomar fan.
thrylos -
Just wanted to send a quick “You were right, I was wrong” your way, as it appears that Wigginton is on the block in Houston. Good call on that.
I agree regarding Nomar on his durability. I watch the Dodgers and also the Twins and he looks very fragile out there and we don’t need a 1st basman currently
It was just a name to throw out. I hadn’t heard squat on him at all…
I just want to throw some ideas…
BC Beneke how bout Jeff Kent
I’d rather the Twins put more comfortable seating in the Dome than have a fancy new stadium with no roof. It’s like everyone forgot why we built the dome in the first place…..the weather here is ungodly terrible…seriously what the F are they thinking!
Can we get a ruling on giving Jesus C. uniform #3:16?
Kent is like poison in the club house…While were at it lets bring in Bonds and his cronies
I just want the Twins to do a decent job this offseason.
my final thought on peavy:
it would be nice to have the front office surprise us for once. Billy B in Oakland does one heck of a job staying one step ahead. We don’t. The last few years of overpaid retreads has been a joke to watch. Not only that, but they screwed up the santana deal. Jed lowrie and masterson rock compared to gogo, but oh well.
It is fun to speculate and Peavy is cheap given his quality. He is much better than baker/slowey.
Anyway, been fun ranting about it. let’s see what the hom boys come up with. Gotta luv the winter meetings
Jesus 3:16 says the Twins just whooped your ass!!
Just for a bit of comparison:
Kouz: .260, 23hr, 84rbi, 71r, 0sb, 162/624
DeRo: .285, 21, 87, 103, 6, 144/505
Donald: (AA).307, 14, 54, 57, 11, 111/362
Tejada: .283, 13, 66, 92, 7, 179/632
Wigg: .285, 23, 58, 50, 4, 110/386 (110g)
Beltre: .266, 25, 77, 74, 8, 148/556
Hardy: .283, 24, 74, 78, 2, 161/569
I know these are base stats. But at least offensively some of the pricey bats (Beltre) could be gotten cheaper in a Kouz or Wigg. Hardy cannot be measured by DeRosa cause of age and control, yet it shows DeRosa is a solid option.
let he who is without sin, kick the first ass
Pete D, no problem. If they only could swing a deal for him…
Also I did not realize HOW solid Wigg was with the bat. In 110 games he put up some VERY solid numbers, albeit in Houston.
STOP TALKING ABOUT GETTING PEAVY IT IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN!!
Jeff Kent has never had any range, and a questionable glove and now he’s 73 years old.
at least we wouldnt have to worry about paying kent - he’s eligible for social security and his pension plan
Peavy is cheap given his quality. He is much better than baker/slowey.
I beg to differ:
2008
Peavy: 1.18 WHIP 2.81 K/BB 8.60 K/9 (in the NL in a huge pitcher’s park)
Slowey: 1.15 WHIP 5.13 K/BB 6.90 K/9
Baker: 1.18 WHIP 3.36 K/BB 7.36 K/9
Bring Peavy to the AL in a normal park and he does not even get close to Slowey and Baker. Would be interesting to see what he does at Wrigley Field next year
We need Power correct!? Why not get Dunn. Trade Kubel when he is at the top for RP. He will never put up those numbers again. Let Dunn be our DH. Keep everyone else and let them fill the positions. If we were to sign/trade for any of these names being thrown out here for SS/3B they together wouldn’t equal up to what Dunn would do. He is not going to cost as much as people think either.
btw, the Indians just reached an agreement with Wood pending a physical; the deal is for 2 years @ $10 mil a year plus an option…
It is amazing that a story that basically had no story to it has fired up almost 200 comments already LOL. Shows how passionate Twinkies fans are, eh?
What is this crap on 9 and 10 year contracts for Texiera… wow.
BC,
Those 9 and 10 year offers show how baseball’s economy is out of touch with reality. Mike and Mike in the Morning were talking about this today.
Guys and gals if any here posting, the Twins wont do anything to fix the glaring holes we have. Polad hates to spend money period. Derosa is NOT leaving Chicago it has been posted earlier, Cubs have no plans on dealing him. Peavy could become a Twin IF Polad wants to win, this wont happen. Polad runs our team as a business. Look where this has gotten us. Also we have about 14 million available to spend with per management. I would love it if we did something to make this team better!
Have the Twins shown any interest in Crede or Blalock? Given their injuries the past couple years, definitely a risk but may not have to give up as much as others being mentioned here!? Could allow us to go after a better SS or relief pitcher too…
“Why are some people still talking about Beltre? He had one great year(probably on juice) and has done nothing to make the fans in Seattle happy since he got there! His D is great but at this point he wouldn’t bring moreto the line-up than the YOUNGER Kouzmanoff.”
I live in Seattle and Beltre is the only player the M’s fans haven’t turned on yet. People here love him. Yeah, he hasn’t been as productive since 04, but he’s still above average offensively and he’s THE BEST defensive 3B in the league. He hit 25 HR last year with a bum wrist. If you don’t think that’s impressive look at Papi’s numbers after his wrist injury. He’s a proven player and he’s a great clubhouse guy. I’m not saying I wouldn’t love Kouz in our lineup. I would. He’d be my second choice. I just think Beltre is better. Even taking into account he’d be an expensive rental. I agree Kouz would be great too.
jefe-
No interest in Crede because he is a Boras client, and his back history scares them.
No no one is looking at Blalock anymore because his injuries have removed the 3B from his job description. He’s a DH/1B now. Plus the Rangers picked up his option so he’s not a free agent.
Patrick…
Just thought the fans would be mad that they paid big money for a player who hit 48 hr’s the year before milking them for a huge contract then gets to Seattle and never even hits 30 hr’s
[…] Twins Insider – […]
jama,
compared to the performances & contracts of Sexton, Silva, Batista, Washburn, Johjima, Bedard et. al., Beltre is a hero for those guys…
Yes, Beltre ‘only’ had 25 HR’s but he is as polished as they come. A top glove at his position, solid bat, enough power to make any pitcher think twice.
oh and he would have had 26 if not for Span 
5:19pm: Brock talked to a Padres source who does not believe the Twins are involved.
MLBTRADERUMORS.com
about the peavy talks.
Is it too much to ask for the fans to spell players’ names correctly?
My thoughts on DeRosa: I think the only reason were talking about about a 2nd tier guy like him is because we’d be giving up a AAA pitcher instead of one of the fab five. That’s not a knock on DeRosa either, he’s a solid player…he just isn’t going to cost as much as a Beltre, Hardy, Kouz, etc. With plenty of 3B’s on the market, I think the Twins will continue to wait it out. Another thing to consider is Boston signing Texiera, meaning Lowell becomes available. Not saying Lowell is the perfect guy either, but it creates more options. I really don’t think Kouz will be moved. The Padres already dealt Greene, they have enough holes to fill this year. By moving Peavy and Greene’s contracts, I think they’ll be fairly close to their desired payroll
Truest comment I’ve read all week, from a Nationals executive: “90% of this stuff is pure fabrication.”
Sure, he was primarily talking about all the Texiera rumors (10 years @$20mm per?), but it’s equally applicable to virtually everything posted online during the Winter Meetings.
“Allows them to pretend to us fans that they actually “tried,” but they just couldn’t get it done.”
I’m sure the Twins Front Office has regular meetings to refine their strategy on how to “pretend to the fans that they tried.”
I’ll bet it is one of the goals in their mission statement to “convince the fans that we are trying”.
Just as long as they don’t accidentally step over the line and ACTUALLY TRY!
What a terrible mistake that would be!
For someone to believe THAT scenario is beyond ridiculous.
Who the hell would work 25 years, for a company that has a goal to fool their customers into thinking that they “actually” try, when in fact, they are faking it.
If Twins fans believe that, then they are paranoid and gullible.
THAT conspiracy theory is for idiots.
Well, Sid, when was the last time the Twins actually did more than “try?”
Believe what you will, Sid.
If the Twins were serious about Blake, the money nor the years were serious enough obstacles to prevent them signing him. I believe that as surely as I believe the sun will shine tomorrow morning. They had the money available for 2009, and have a new stadium opening in 2010. The net difference in what they reportedly offered Blake, and what he signed for, is $3.5M.
Are you telling me that third year was so onorous, at a cost of $3.5M, as to make it impossible for the Twins to sign Blake?
They “tried” at the deadline last year, too, remember?
I like DeRosa and have from the time he came up with the Braves. He’s a nice player and a definite upgrade over what we have had at 3B since Koskie. However, he’s 34 and probably doesn’t figure into the long range plans. Therefore, I wouldn’t give up a whole lot for a one year rental.
Right on, JimC, right on.
What does everyone think of Wiggington? He’s younger than Derosa with more pop but a lesser player in most other respects.
when was the last time the Twins actually did more than “try?”
Last off-season. This off-season is still young. Gotta have patience
Just say no to Punto
After the results the Twins got with their former Astros last season, it’s tough not to hold that experience against Wigginton, but outside of that, I’d be OK with him manning 3B for the Twins. Like the other trade options, how enthused I get would be determined by who they have to give up to get him.
And yes… Bill Smith did “try” last off-season with the Rays deal, regardless of whether you’re one who’s jumped to premature conclusions concerning whether it was a “good” trade or not. If you don’t like that deal, ok… but give the “Twins never try” thing a friggin rest already.
At least the Rule 5 draft is tomorrow. Maybe we’ll take a flier on a middle reliever who was in double A last year. Then they will probably call it an offseason after resigning Punto.
For the record, Jim, I liked the Delmon Young trade, but it’s easy to trade young cost-controlled talent for young, cost-controlled talent.
That’s not “trying.”
Trying is looking at your third base options and actually making a competitive offer for someone who could help, at a cost of nothing but dollars, of which your team has some available.
Trying ISN’T making an offer you know will be refused, and which you know will be topped.
I’d rather they just be honest with us and say we’re not in the market for free agents who can help us, we’d rather the Pohlads pocket an extra $15M.
I’d respect that more than the BS line that they were actually interested in Blake.
Chief,
Maybe, they evaluated Blake and determined what he was worth relative to other options.
Maybe, they decided his risk in years was not worth what he was asking.
Maybe they decided that one of the other options (Grudz, Derosa, Atkins, Kouz, Punto, Harris, whomever) would be more cost effective allowing them to improve themselves in more than one area.
Maybe, I am full of sh-t!
I may be able to afford the most expensive automobile/boat/big screen.
But often, I just leave with something for which I know I have not overpaid.
Maybe the Twins wanted Blake for the “right price ONLY”.
Now they want someone else for the “right price ONLY”
The scenario, where the Twins FO spends a lot of time and effort to convince their fans that they “tried” to sign Blake when they really trying to AVOID signing him just sounds preposterous to me.
I don’t think any company could convince a large number of their employees to be THAT disingenous.
No company that I ever worked for, would (or could) ever force me to “fake trying” to fool customers.
I doubt that I am the exception.
I don’t believe the Twins Front Office as a group could all forfeit their integrity in concert in order to pull that off.
Trying is looking at your third base options and actually making a competitive offer for someone who could help, at a cost of nothing but dollars, of which your team has some available.
Last year Smith signed the best available 3B free agent. Isn’t that “trying”?
JimCrikket, I second the motion regarding the pablum spewed about “trying” and “cheapness”. It gets old. Fiscal discipline is GOOD. It’s ultimately a philosophy of doing business, one that many besides the Pohlad family subscribe to. It’s also fun to identify with a team that has to be resourceful to compete. The Twins management is excellent, top to bottom.
Well, I hope you’re all happy with watching Brian Buscher waste a good portion of Morneau’s contribution next year. Cause that’s the most likely scenario as of this point.
I do agree, thrylos, that signing Lamb was a decent “try.” Forgot about that one. It should’ve worked relatively well, too. Doesn’t mean you don’t try again, though. The holes are still there at third and short.
Chief, just give them time. There are a lot of things in play out there. Wait for Texeira to land. If he lands in Boston, Lowell will be available also. The Twins cannot get any reasonable third baseman via free agency so they have to get one via a trade. Those things take time.
And I’d rather have teeth being pulled without anesthesia than watch Buscher at third next season…
No, it doesn’t mean you don’t try again… and I would add that not having deals in place by the 3rd day of Winter Meetings doesn’t mean they aren’t trying.
They lost out on Blake. Stuff happens. Let’s just not go overboard. They’re obviously involved in discussions with several teams right now. I just think it’s silly to keep claiming the Twins’ FO is not trying to improve this team.
Hey Guys is there any news on what the twins might do? This is absurd they need to do something they just cannot stand pat watching the rest of the teams in the division improve.
And it’s helpful to put it in perspective by comparing the number of question marks last winter to the present. You will recall that the consensus was we had FIVE question marks regarding the starting rotation ALONE. Now, we have THREE real question marks and the ammo to make incremental, intelligent improvements. That’s commendable progress.
That was my post, Peter, so don’t take credit unless you get dissed.
MDB… just what exactly have the other teams in the division done to improve themselves so much, at this point?
Royals: Horacio Ramirez, Mike Jacobs
Tigers: Adam Everett, Gerald Laird
Indians: Kerry Wood
WSox: Dayan Viciedo, Tyler Flowers, Brent Lillibridge, Jon Gilmore, and Santos Rodriguez
Am I missing a major upgrade that one of those teams has already made?
Sure, they’ve been involved in various RUMORS… but so have the Twins. Let’s see where things end up.
Derosa looks much better than Kouz in 119 less at bats, derosa hit for 3 more rbi’s only 2 homers less than Kouz and hit for an average of .285, .25 points higher than Kouz.Kouz his for a .299 obp% and Derosa hit for a .376 obp%. Derosa’s slug% was also higher than Kouz. Derosa had a .481 slug% wheras Kouz had a .433 slug%.
Whether the club has “tried” in the past is, for the most part, irrelevant. I care about this year. We can’t do anything about years past except learn from them. I do think that last year, by any objective standard, the club “tried” to improve. This offseason is a long way from being over, so let’s not cry in our beers just yet, okay?
JimCrikket,
Correct. Actually only the Indians might be better next year. The Sox are dismantling themselves (and if anyone believes that Viciedo who is Prince Fielder-sized will ever be a third baseman for them, well…), the Tigers are copying the Twins’ game plan of yore by trying to plug holes with inadequate players and the Royals lost more than they gained so far.
The season starts on Sunday, April 5, 2009. That’s a little less than four months away.
For an organization to “not be trying” would be very upsetting, but possible.
For an organization to be pouring time and effort into an attempt to “fake trying” is absurd and I don’t believe it could possibly be accomplished in secret.
Well, I suppose all organizations make offers they think/hope won’t be accepted and issue spin statements about how they made a “competitive” offer. However, that spin is a lot different than not trying at all. Think of all the time and effort put into scouting, negotiations, etc. To think a club isn’t trying is basically a “Major League” scenario which might play well in Hollywod, but just isn’t real life.
Here is another name to chew on for the set up position: Takashi Saito will be non-tendered by the Dodgers
yeah I saw that thrylos… but he’s still got questionable health issues, right?
Health is a concern (had some elbow tightness and lost a couple of months last season) and he is not a spring chicken (he’ll be 39 before the season opens), but his fastball velocity hasn’t dropped a bit the last 3 years and still has a nasty slider so he should probably be a consideration, especially in a market that is overflown with quasi-closer reliever types…
On the other hand, I might like Boof for the 8th inning RH role more 
I’ve always thought Boof had the stuff for a late inning reliever… whether he has what it takes “between the ears” is yet to be determined.
Boof has the stuff. I think that a lot of it as you say is the between the ears things (same with Perk btw). He lets bad results get to him. Park of the problem might have been that he saw his assignment to the pen as a demotion after spending an off-season working hard to get in shape. I think that if he knows his role next season as a reliever and someone makes him lose that awful changeup (you don’t need 4 pitches in the pen and opponents hit .417 off his change last year) he will be fine. An encouraging thing is that reports (check the blog cross the river) indicate that the Twins are not willing to sell low on him…
Colletti said on XM yesterday that Saito will have a hard time coming back with his injury. I think you better scratch Saito off the list.
Also, Boof is the only guy in the pen, besides Nathan, that can throw a fastball past anyone @ 95-97mph. I like him for the 8th inning too.
Boof just needs more refinement and to listen to Anderson. He shows flashes of brilliance, he just falls off the face of the earth at times.
The bullpen isn’t in such bad shape as many people think:
Mijares
Breslow
Nathan
^these 3 above are pretty much sure things at the moment (yes Mijares was a rookie, but he was amazing)
That leaves 4 spots, and I’d prefer them to be: Korecky, Crain, Bonser and either Guerier or Humber. I like Korecky due to his experience as a closer and he’s got the stuff to succeed at this level.
If we were to say pick up a vet (ie pedro, randy johnson, wolf), we could slide one of them or a current starter (perk perhaps?) to the pen to allow the minor leaguers (Slama, Mulvey, Duensing, etc) to mature. Said vet could also provide some more guidance and also provide quality innings like Hernandez did (to a point) when he was here.
Gregor, close but no cigar… here are the average fastball velocities for the Twins’ relievers in 2008:
Crain: 94.1
Nathan: 93.5
(Rincon: 92)
Mijares: 91.8
Bonser: 91.7
Guerrier: 91.4
Korecky: 91.4
(Bass: 91.2)
Humber: 90.1
(Reyes: 89.8)
*Neshek: 89.0
Breslow: 88.6
(Guadardo: 85.8)
from fangraphs
Thrylos - my knock on Crain has always been if he’d just take a mph or 2 off his fastball he could make it more lively, and thus hearder to hit. sure he can hit low to mid nineties, but its a straight meaty fastball that power hitters love. is he developing a cutter or something?
Keep DY, Blackburn, and Punto. With Liriano back for a full season, it’s not unreasonable to consider 90+ wins in ‘09. Only offer Perkins and Humber or Boof and Cuddy & Harris for Kouz; otherwise, a platoon of Harris/Buscher or Cuddy at 3b will be okay and see what prospects are available for Harris. Always DH DY against lefties. The Twins problem is what to do with the 4 starting OFs.
Tigers are getting Edwin Jackson from the Rays for Matt Joyce. Interesting exchange. I’ve always liked Jackson for some reason.
Crain lost a lot of movement off his fastball (4-seamer) this season. I tend to believe that this was because of the shoulder issues. He has 3 pitches: 4-seamer, slider and curve, with his most effective pitch being the curve (opponents are hitting .220 against it vs. close to .280 off his other pitches). He effectively uses his curve as a change (it comes at 77 mph) whereas his slider is hard (89.2 mph). As a reliever he is fine with these 3 pitches but he gotta get more life with his fastball (or better location with the other pitches) to be able to fool hitters. Another thing is that he threw his fastball 88% when behind the count last year. He’s got to mix them better…
Jimcrikket,
I agree with you in that the rest of the division hasn’t done much but it seems like in the past the twins stay put and don’t do much as far as picking up a key free agent or doing a major trade…….. We need more offense.
Bill Smith was more aggressive last offseason than Terry Ryan traditionally had been. TR was conservative (whether by nature or due to financial constraints), but Smith has demonstrated a willingness to make moves and he has more financial latitude than Ryan usually did. I think people need to try to leave the past behind and judge Smith on his own merits. As I’ve said, you can debate whether his moves have been successful or not, but you can’t argue that he has not been willing to make moves, imo.
JimCrikket,
I bet there will be news tomorrow in the Rule 5 draft. Maybe not the news most people want to hear but there will be news. The Ruiz release crated an extra spot in the 40-man roster. It will be an interesting draft for another respect: Dmitri Young is available. The Twins might pick him, if they do, forget the Delmon rumors…
We will see if the trade pans out so far not looking good if they already want to trade Young.
Any rumors on what the twins may do? I am sorry they need to be more aggressive we are building them a stdium the least they can do is go after some good ball players…..
Maybe there will be no trade until after the Rule 5 draft? Just a thought.
Sounds like the Astros are serious about dealing Wigginton. I have to think the Twins would have some pitching they might be interested in. The problem is, there are other teams looking for 3Bs, too, so you’re going to be in a little bit of a bidding war. (Stories already coming out that teams are calling the Cubs about DeRosa now that his name has been put out there.)
MDB - just read the comments; if there is something, it will be there. you can also do your own searching on the net and just check La Velle’s updates…
For all of those Kouzmanoff lovers out there, he would be a good fit for the Twins…he swings at 36% of pitches out of the strikes zone, right between Gomez and DYoung. Mauer and Span were both under 20% in 2008.
^that stat alone (as long as he continues) will show that Span will not digress much if at all; in fact he may improve. can’t wait to see his development
LAS VEGAS — The Mets, Indians and Mariners are discussing a 12-player trade in which Seattle reliever J.J. Putz would go to the Mets. In the deal being discussed, the Mets would surrender six players, including outfielder Endy Chavez, relief pitcher Aaron Heilman and first base prospect Mike Carp. The Indians would be giving up rightfielder Franklin Gutierrez.
medschoolmatt,
Thanks for the insight. I have been checking the web and Lavelle hasn’t reported anything since this afternoon so I thought someone may know of some rumors. Sorry I asked…….
Twins select Eduardo Morlan in Rule 5? Could he possibly be ML ready?
Hopefully the twins can make a trade for some power.
birdofprey,
Wow your a good baseball mind.
I was just reviewing the file on Garrett Atkins. Man, he’s a very solid hitter. Good plate discipline, very good average, solid power, no platoon split, 29 years old. The sort of player the Twins could trade for, and then extend for a few years. I would love to see a Perkins or Blackburn + prospect trade for him. What are the odds that this happens? 20 to 1?
Wait…the Twins got Morlan back in the Rule 5?
So now it turns into Young/Pridie/Harris for Garza/Bartlett.
I was assuming that was speculation. The draft isn’t until tomorrow, is it?
Twins should have drafted Dimitri and made him a player/coach. Then we wouldn’t have to hear anymore about how Delmon won’t listen to Twins coaching.
reading twins headlines on mlb.com is just flat out depressing….and disgusting…..if punto signs he will be the starting ss …..i am not against punto on the team but not as the locked in starter… i thought we were going to the meetings to improve this club, not make it the same or worse than last year….come on bill, you already lost out on blake-get some balls and get in there and make some deals that make sense….spend some money on a free agent or two so that we dont have to give up so many players…were not that deep…cleveland is wheeling and dealing, detroit making moves….minnesota laaadeeeeedaaaaaa laaadeeeedaaaaa
Would the Twins consider signing Orlando Hudson. I see he made 6.25 million last year. What would be his asking price?
Then attempt to trade Casilla, one of our starting pitchers and a prospect for JJ Hardy? I don’t think the Brewers are happy with R. Weeks. Casilla is also a better fielder.
The problem is which of our starting pitchers would we give up? I have heard that Milwaukee has turned down a formal offer involving a 5th starter type for JJ.
But, if we could make these deals the Twins could then platoon Busher/harris at third base, until Velencia is ready.
OR
Sign Hudson, shift Casilla to ss
and trade for one of the power hitting third basemen ( Atkins or Kouz ).
I’m afraid the Twins are going to make just one move, if any. When I think they should fill two holes in the infield.
Columbo, my understanding from stuff I’ve read is that Hudson is pricey, but he sure would be fun to watch next year. He’s a Type A I recall, so you forfeit a 1st round choice, which means you have to view it as giving up the next Aaron Hicks (or Matt Moses if you think like MBD) AND sabotaging your pay scale. Not the Twins way.
Columbo, the one move they will make is to resign Punt….YUCK
Why cant the twins just make the simple and effective moves?
Perkins & Cuddy
for Hardy
…………………………
Revere & Bonser & Plouffe (maybe Gurrier too)
for Beltre & Rowland-Smith
…………………………
Sign K. Farnsworth
Sign J. Hairston Jr.
Sign G. Mota
…………………………
Liriano, Baker, Slowey, Blackburn, Humber
Nathan, Farnsworth, Mota, Rowland-Smith, Crain, Mijares
RF-Span
2B-Casilla/Hairston Jr.
C-Mauer
1B-Morneau
3B-Beltre
DH-Kubel
SS-Hardy
LF-Young
CF-Gomez/Hairston Jr.
Birdofprey, your right he is Type A. It’s not something the Twins would normally do.
Steve H, that’s what I’m afraid is going to happen.
B-Rob, no way on all these deals and Farnsworth and Mota? Twins need GOOD relief pitching
Farnsworth and Mota are good relief pitchers! Ill take them over Gurrier, Crain, Bonser!
Reyes is gone, Neshek is out for the year, Mijares is developing…
We only need those 2 for a year fix and then we get neshek back and mijares could be great by then. Just a nice bit for the year. They ar eWAY above any signings the twins have done in recent years!
Just to dream a little. Look at the Dome stats for Hudson:
2006-2008:
488 AB .314/.379/.508 with a .887 OPS
Plus, he’s a gold glover.
What does everyone expect? The Pohlads are cheap A-S-S-H-O-L-E-S…
