Lots of final thoughts from the Bellagio
Posted on December 11th, 2008 – 6:57 PMBy La Velle
We’re tired.
Four days of walking from the media room to the hotel lobby five times a day - with strategic stops at the elevator bank to stake out sources - has most of us worn down.
The winter meetings are over. The Yankees spent freely again. The Twins made no major moves, again. There’s plenty of offseason left for the Twins to come up with a third baseman and eighth-inning help, so we’ll see what happens.
Some thoughts
Twins GM Bill Smith said he’s comfortable with going to spring training with Brian Buscher and Brendan Harris as a third base platoon. But rest assured they are still talking to teams about third basemen.
Talks with the Rockies about Garrett Atkins have slowed down for now but there’s a chance the sides could get together again.
Seattle’s Adrian Beltre has placed the Twins on his no-trade list. But I don’t know how the Twins and Seattle can make a deal anyway. Beltre is going to walk after the 2009 season, which affects what the Twins are willing to give up in a deal. If the Twins don’t find a third baseman before the season starts I wonder if it would be easier to make a half-season rental deal.
I think Kevin Kouzmanoff would be a good fit. I think Ty Wigginton would be a good option if all else fails.
Look for the Twins to keep talking with the Cubs about Mark DeRosa, too, now that Cubs GM Jim Hendry doesn’t have to worry about Jake Peavy talk.
There are teams (Seattle, Philly, Colorado) that still need a corner outfielder, so Delmon Young might continue to see his name in trade rumors.
I wonder how large Boof Bonser looms in trade talks. He could be viewed as a low-risk mini-reclamation project for a team hungry for pitching.
The only reliever I’ve heard of who was attached to the Twins was Texas’ Joaqiun Benoit - but that was shot down by a Twins official. Does Bill Smith have something up his sleeve here?
Some highlights
It was cool to see a few more players around the winter meetings. I guess that’s what happens when you have it in Vegas.
In addition to Twins players Nick Punto and Joe Nathan, Ben Sheets, Milton Bradley, Jack Wilson and Derek Jeter were seen. Torii Hunter lit up the lounge when he stopped by Tuesday night.
There were many noteworthy former players here too. Eric Davis and Ellis Burks looked ready for a camp invite. Michael Tucker hasn’t played since 2006 and WAS in Vegas looking for a camp invite. George Brett, Frank Robinson and Al Kaline all commanded attention….
I’m finding out more baseball people are reading my blog. After writing about how great a prospect Jason Donald is, I was assailed by a scout from a NL team who disagreed.
I hopped on the elevator Tuesday to begin my work day, only to have it stop on the next floor to pick up Andy MacPhail, the former Twins and Cubs exec who now runs the Orioles. We began to chat.
“I’m trying to find out what the club I cover is going to do for a third baseman,” I said.
“I read your stuff,” MacPhail said. “Mark DeRosa? That would be a good pick-up for the Twins.”…
Ran into a few Upper Midwesterners during the week. One woman was embarrassed to approach me and had her friend ask who I was. Turns out her name was Meghan <sp?>, who works for the Fargo-Moorhead Redhawks and was with other staff members at the meetings. They listen to KFAN all the time and, I hope, read the StarTribune. Anyway, hello Meghan and the rest of the Redhawks staff.
Jeff Passan of Yahoo! gets big props. He made an unannounced run Tuesday night to In-N-Out burger and busted into the media room with 35 burgers and a tubful of fries. Talking about lifting spirits! Goodness, we’re so easy….
By the way, my boss mentioned the words, `Per,’ and `Diem,’ to me the day he found out the meetings were in Las Vegas. Well, I’ve only had dinner twice this week - and one of those times a buddy gave his credit card to the waitress without me knowing and picked up the whole tab! The media this week wore out a trail to a sandwich shop near the poker room to get some grub. Eating well at the winter meetings is hard to do….
Uber blogger Aaron Gleeman on Tuesday, like he’s done before, sat in on Ron Gardenhire’s press conference. He also joined us for the daily briefing with Twins GM Bill Smith and got a taste of what it’s like to try to get information from someone who doesn’t want any of his cards on the table. Gleeman was nowhere to be seen when Wednesday’s briefing took place…
I spotted Twins manager Ron Gardenhire in a haberdashery at the hotel. He under packed for the trip and needed to buy a jacket to wear the next day at the annual media-managers lunch. He purchased one sweater and one jacket that cost more than my hotel bill and airfare to Vegas. The jacket was tailored within two hours.
Gardy looked sharp the next day as we shared a table with Royals manager Trey Hillman and the Royals writers. It was like a homecoming for me. Kansas City Star beat writer Bob Dutton was my high school editor at the Star when I broke into the business in 1989 (I was responsible for him running out of red ink). MLB.com reporter Dick Kaegel was the Star’s Royals beat writer then and later helped me learn the ropes my first year on the Royals beat in 1995.
While eating, the sad state of the newspaper industry came up. And Phil Miller of the Pioneer Press produced the line of the day.
“This may be the first year that the writers have worse job security than the managers,” Miller said….
Finally….
I’ll still monitor Twins news, but I’m on my own dime here after tonight. I’m switching hotels and laying low for a couple days - as well as one can lay low in Las Vegas.
Check this out for one person’s take of the winter meetings.
260 Responses to "Lots of final thoughts from the Bellagio"
Too bad it wasn’t more exciting
Lavelle, thanks for the updates, and I’m envious of all the players, both current and past, that you have seen in Vegas. I am still hoping for a surprise from the Twins this off season. Just got that feelin’….so I’ll be patient.
“Does Bill Smith have something up his sleeve here?”
A slice of pizza?
A cheesburger?
No, he doesn’t. Fire this loser now. He’s been on the job, what 1 year? Here’s the good vs. bad moves:
Good
-Morneau extension
-Pickup of Breslow
-The Nathan extension
The Bad
-The Santana trade
-The Young trade
-Sitting on his ass doing nothing on July 31
-The Cuddyer extension
-Overpaying for Punto
-Signing Livan
-Signing Lamb
-Signing Everett
-The Gardy extension
FIRE DUMBASS SMITH NOW!
minnesota taxpayers bilked again. we gave the pohlads a 500 million dollar bail out. maybe we shouldve been contracted. id rather be a clippers fan. no excuse none whatsoever period
Scotty Ulger…who is your solution pick to succeed Bill Smith?
“minnesota taxpayers bilked again. we gave the pohlads a 500 million dollar bail out. maybe we shouldve been contracted. id rather be a clippers fan. no excuse none whatsoever period”
I’m sure the Clippers could use another fan. Watching and/or following the Twins is not required if you don’t approve of the organization.
“FIRE DUMBASS SMITH NOW!”
Really, after one year in which they were supposed to maybe win 70 games and won 88 and were one game from making the playoffs?
Everyone has bitched for years about the Twins not doing anything in the off-season, then last year they were as busy as ever, but everyone bitched they weren’t doing the “right” thing.
KB, Amen!
LENIII, you should have asked MacPhail about Melvin Mora. He hit .280 and hit 23 homers last year. He earns $9 Million this year with a team option for 2010. He would be a decent bridge to Luke Hughes and the Twins could probably get him cheaper than Beltre.
I think Kevin Kouzmanoff would be a good fit. I think Ty Wigginton would be a good option if all else fails.
Look for the Twins to keep talking with the Cubs about Mark DeRosa, too, now that Cubs GM Jim Hendry doesn’t have to worry about Jake Peavy talk.
due to Punto being re-signed, none of those 3 are legit options. Sure, the cheap Twins may go for them, but none of those three would be worth making a deal for.
Dear LEN3, please refrain giving Gleeman updates. Who gives a crap. He’s a hack that offers nothing of value to anyone. This is a Twins update, not a crappy blogger update.
stupidity opens organizations to criticism
“due to Punto being re-signed, none of those 3 are legit options. Sure, the cheap Twins may go for them, but none of those three would be worth making a deal for.”
Why does Punto’s re-signing negate the legitimacy of trading for Kouz, Wiggy, or DeRosa? Or, are you insinuating that the Twins are cheap. Or, are you suggesting that none of the 3 are worth trading for regardless of what we give in return? I’m confused..please clarify.
For a fair price I have interest in Kouzmanoff or Wigginton. However, I am not all that worried about having a Harris/Buscher platoon at 3B. I really think the priority should be relief pitching!
I’d rather have the Twins do nothing than something dumb (say, Jack Wilson). Just no bottom of the bargain bin signings this year(T-Bat, Livan, etc.)
middle relief would be such a problem right now if some moves had been made with the glut of mediocre to ave pitchers that we have in AAA. that are now holding up the more talented pitchers at lower levels. to be a “shrewd” organization, some intelligence is required
kouz, wiggy and derosa don’t have a big enough bat to make up for the hole that punto creates in the lineup. it would have required 2 of the 3 you listed to make a real impact
punto is now making enough that he has to be played
I wonder how large Boof Bonser looms in trade talks.
That joke pretty much writes itself…
I agree with werbellik that bull-pen is far and away the bigger priority.
I wouldn’t mind taking a look at Crede later in the winter, with Buscher/Harris platoon as a back up for when/if he gets hurt.
I’m glad someone finally admitted that nothing is better than something stupid. Thanks.
Dick, I think the injury to Neshek and to a lessor degree the potential loss of Reyes are more relevant to the current need for relief help. However, I do think your point has some validity as it relates to AAA warm bodies sometimes getting in the way of better prospects moving up.
i don’t mean to be inflamitory but we really seem to be stuck between having to spend now or trade now. if you arent going to spend money you have to be willing to cut your losses on some players. ie the AAA pitchers from the mets. perk. blackie (although he is somewhat of a ‘gamer’)
T,
Bonser is working out again 
pohlad, I agree, and would be more than happy to move anyone in AAA right now for some bull-pen help or a 3B I would also give up Perk. Blackburn would be a last resort and would have to be Atkins in return. I would not give up anyone of the starters other than Perk or Blackburn.
By starters, I’m referring to either position players or SP. DY is included in people I don’t want to give up.
Agreed KB. I don’t think we should “cut our losses” on young/inexperienced pitchers like Perkins, Blackburn, Humber and Mulvey. I do think having pitchers like Graves and others at AAA sometimes get in the way of better prospects moving up.
i agree completely. i know that blackie doesn’t have the greatest stuff but he does seem to win. i am skeptical about perkins. i watched the game against the yankees where he flipped out on casilla and subsequently they both fell apart.
DY may look unathletic but he can hit the ball and i still think that he could be a power that we need
thrylos98
just wondering what you do. i have a math degree and am really impressed with you stat anal. do you have your own blog
In regards to Crede…if you have to keep Buscher or Harris “on deck” in case of injury to a FA signing (not in emergency, but as an actual plan), then I think you need to reconsider getting him.
Buscher can be Buscher without having Crede on the DL to do so.
I’m not completely sold on any of: DY, Span or Gomez. I think all of them will probably continue to improve, but I also wouldn’t be shocked if any of the three regress. That’s why I don’t want to get rid of any of them.
Span has had 1/2 a year, granted it was very good, but he also had 5 years in the minors to win that spot, and never performed. I’m hesitant to put him “in the bank” as being a future star.
The team shouldn’t spend money just to do it. If something comes along that they can’t pass up, then they should bite. Signing 37 year old 3rd basemen to $20 million contracts doesn’t make a lot of sense for a team built around youth and speed. I get tired of people who say that they love the way the Twins do business, but then get grouchy all offseason when the FO doesn’t go hog wild for free agents. If something comes along that allows the Twins to pick up a power bat on the left side of the infield without giving up a king’s ransom in prospects, I’m sure they’ll do what they can to get the job done.
OwNowBrownCow,
Couldn’t agree more.
Look at what spending like crazy just to spend got the T-wolves…
KB
i agree with you. the one thing that i feel like i see in DY, at least at the plate, is hand eye coordination. he swings too much which seems to open him up a little easier to being tricked, but still at least the barrel of the bat is in the vacinity of the ball.
with esp gomez, but also span and cuddy, for that matter; seem to swing and miss by a foot. not even close to the ball
It’s nice to see that LaVelle’s becoming famous for his blog. He’s a good guy with a good sense of humor about it all…
And yes LaVelle you do a good job I wish we all would thank you more…
That being said… Bill Smith’s resigning of Little Nicky Punterrible scares me.
What if it’s our fault? We all hate him so much that other teams backed off on him?
Oh yeah, MLB… you’re welcome for the warning label, but with as much as you waste money… it would have been nice for someone to have kept the Pohlads from making this move and forcing them to spend some money on real talent.
isnt it better to b*tch in the offseason and be hardcore and loyal than be at the stadium than spend the game booing
sorry.
off season b*tch
stadium cheer not boo.
stupid laptop
Spending money to spend money is foolish… but if you are talking about Casey Blake… when he hits .280 with 22 homers and 81 RBI this year, and our 3rd base combo hits .256 with 11 homers and 41 RBI between the two of them… I hope you people understand that age doesn’t matter. And he would have been 37 when the contract was over… not this season… Oh, and 3 years… that aught to be about the time Valencia is ready… provided he doesn’t choke like Matt Moses.
dick pohlad,
click my name for my blog if interested (thanks)
Buscher can be Buscher
the scary part is that BS seems alright with that thought
dick p,
It appears it is the JOB of a blogger to “bitch and moan”…maybe if they are drunk, they might forget that JOB and actually cheer for their team.
Regards,
The Twins were bottom feeders all thru the Terry Ryan era however, I believe stadium approval changed the direction of the organization.
BS was brought in with many more resources both financial and other to win now, take us from B to A. There is pressure on BS from within the organization to pull the trigger on a real deal now. He wants to please.
Casey Blake would have been a good signing. I would have pulled the trigger on what the Dodgers offered him. However, I think the Twins made him a very solid offer.
BC, 2 things.
Where do you get your numbers .256,11,41? Buscher/Harris was much better than that last year.
And, with all due repsect, you were all over Punto last off season, but not around much to compliment his good play last year. I’ll make a deal with you. If he plays well thsi year you stop calling him Punterrible, and if he plays poorly this year I’ll stop by for a free massage and let you say “I told you so”.
Dragon,
(and others who think that disagreeing with the front office, the manager or not liking what they are seeing on the field and are vocal about it: )
here is an analogy:
All Americans “cheer” for the country. Most Americans, disapprove of their soon to be past president and the policies of the government the last few years. And they are vocal about it.
Is it unamerican?
Same think with Twins’ fans who disapprove and are vocal about actions by the front office, by their manager or on the field?
Does that make them less of Twins’ fans?
Not in my book.
“It appears it is the JOB of a blogger to “bitch and moan”…maybe if they are drunk, they might forget that JOB and actually cheer for their team.”
Dragon…Amen.
Regards….
i cheer during the season. this is just frusterating. never had a blog to vent on before.
Lavelle -
How long are you staying out there? A couple of us are headed out there on Sunday, staying at the Bellagio. Perhaps your thirsty by then?
I’m all for voicing you opinions about what the front-office does or doesn’t do. I bitch about it plenty. What I get annoyed with is these blanket statements about they “always” do this or “never do that” or “this is a disgrace”, etc.
Here is the production of the third base position for the Twins in 2008:
.283/.330/.399 7 HR 91 RBI
(that included everyone who played 3rd last year, when they played third base - e.g. does not include Harris’ numbers when he was playing 2B and include Macri’s, Clarke’s, Lamb’s etc)
Here is Casey Blake’s production in 2008:
.274/.345/.463 21 HR 81 RBI
I don’t mind going to the stadium and booing…
I remember getting Rickey Henderson so mad at me that he threatened to kill me one game. He screwed up two pop flies in LF that game.
I remember letting Booflet have it on the 20th anniversary of the 87 championship team… it was righteous.
I know going to Wrigley and heckling the opposing team is a birth-right.
Heck going to Philedelphia you don’t even get to have street cred as a fan until you’ve made a player from both sides cry. Those people are religious in their insanity about baseball.
In NY or Boston you are going to find people that are so into it that you’d think they should be arrested, or just got out of an asylum…
Here in MN… we have people sit quietly and allow crap like Little Nicky Punterrible to happen.
KB,
a lot of those blanket statements are either immature or premature (about 4 months left before the first pitch of the 2009 season is thrown and I bet more changes will happen) and I would suggest you treat them as frustration venting…
BC,
You can’t tell me that Punto didn’t play an important role for the Twins last year. I would rather see him as a utility player, but he’s not the end of the world to trot out there as a SS and #9 hitter.
thrylos,
with regards to your analogy. I for one do not think there is anything wrong with those of you who disagree with the FO, I do to sometimes. I will challenge disrespectful opposition and those who seem to put more emotion into their responses than critical analysis. You do a great job of analyzing and providing statistical backup.
thrylos98,
I’ll try to treat them as that.
medschoolmatt says:
December 11th, 2008 at 8:25 pm
Dicky
Which is why I pencilled Pat the Bat in for DH (only an emergency OF and occasional spell for Morneau at 1B - which makes perfect sense because he’s a right power bat, Morneau being the left power bat) in my proposed lineup featuring him and Wiggy at 4/5. And I know he won’t go for more than 10; he made way more than he deserved in his last deal (14 mill last season); and I would be surprised if he signed for more than 10. I bet we could get him for 8-9 with incentives.
Regarding our Bullpen:
What’s nice is we DO have a one-up on all these clubs in that we have a closer. yes he’s getting a bit up there, and his fastball is about 94 (boohoo), but he’s developing pitches that have more movement. So many clubs are clammering for a closer, and that’s one thing we don’t have to worry about. We even have guys (Mijares, Breslow, Crain, etc) that have the stuff to be great set-up men AND solid guys for middle relief (Bonser, Humber, etc). This is NOT a huge need.
We’d need Mijares to at least be 80-90% of what he was (man he was crazy good) and Crain to improve (which I think he will, greatly). After that, we really only need one guy to fill in. Jones has a shot at this roster in long relief; I believe he has the stuff for it. He’s pinpoint precision and keeps the ball in the park. If Bonser can continue to develop as a reliever, Guerrier can at least be serviceable again, and Breslow is himself, I like our bullpen over many in the league. If not, Jesus can be had for peanuts, and he’s good too.
This team needs to do the things I’ve said many times now and they are this:
1) Trade Cuddy. I love him, but he has to go; get what you can for him. Clear off his payroll - he’ll be making too much in the years when we need to resign our pitchers and M&M
2) Trade for Wiggy - he can be had for Humber, Buscher + another pitcher (+ prospect), depending on what their needs are. That is very doable and it keeps our starting 5 intact and he’ll most likely give us a very good 400 Ab’s with serviceable defense at an affordable 5 mill.
3) Not many are fans, but sign Pat the bat. We’d finally have that right handed power bat that we’ve been needing for years. He can be had for 8-9 with incentives (at least I’d hope so, his main suitor is the Reds - oooohhh scary). Thirty+ HR’s would push Morneau, and protect him in the lineup. He’d allow guys like Kubel and Young to see better pitches further down the lineup, and their production would mean that much more coming from the 6/7 spots. Casilla and whatever LNP gives at 8/9 would just be gravy.
That’s just 3 things this team needs to do, all within reason. Call me up BS, I can give you the holidays off and swing these deals for you. Pay my tuition for a semester and you’ll look like a hero (fair compensation).
Go Twins, I’ll watch you no matter what happens.
Bill Smith don’t say nuthin’ no how! In other words, he keeps his cards close to his vest & gives out nothing but cliche’s. So poor La Velle is wasting his time trying to get any info out of Bill Smith….. But then again, that’s just the way I would want it if I owned a team, so more power to him.
I said that is what the Twins hitters will do at 3rd this season… meaning 2009.
I am tired of people ripping Casey Blake like he’s old and washed up when in fact the guy has been a solid citizen in MLB for a long time, and the Twins F’d up twice letting him go.
Top that off with the fact that we lost out on him because of 3-4 million dollars… that’s just cheapness! if he has a 3 million dollar contract in 2011 so what… he makes a great RH off the bench, and occasional DH/3B/OF if need be at that point in time…
He’s a class act and the people on here have ripped him like he was Mike Lamb Jr.
Yet some of these same people applaud paying 8.5 million dollars to the super scrub… a glorified 25th man on KC our starting SS for 2009 the light weight light hitting Little Nicky Punterrible with his .250 BA and his .332 SLG and his .301 OB% career averages…
Gee guys… excuse me if I don’t support your ideas. I know that I’m overly aggressive, but I just don’t see the logic in being happy with Punto and bashing Blake.
BC, for what it’s worth, I wanted Blake and agree with your analysis. But I still think you unresolved issues in your assessment of Punto. With all due repsect…
KB… for 8.5 million plus a 5 million dollar option… I would rather see the Twins play with 8 players instead of 9. That’s how low I think of Punto’s contribution to this team as a whole.
I think that Tolbert given 500 atbats would dwarf Punto’s numbers… same with Harris…
His defense is not nearly as good as the “highlight package” would indicate. It’s like a trick of the eye because Ryne Sandberg and Barry Larkin were two of the best ever defensively at their infield positions and I rarely if ever saw them have to dive for 3-4 balls a game.
Werbelik…
my unresolved issues with Punto lie with Gardenhire actually, but that guy keeps winning so it makes it hard for me to hate him as much as Punto…
Dive to 1st base
can’t bunt
light hitter
no power
bad base runner
overrated defense
He annoys the heck out of me… like Dan Gladden without balls of steel and a terrible haircut kind of annoys me.
BC, breath deeply, in through the nose, and out through the mouth. It’ll be o.k.
I just can’t forget or forgive Gardenhire giving Punto 500 atbats in 2007. I was ready to have Gardy fired just for that.
Punto is Lew Ford without the iron.
Who’s bashing Blake?
BC.B,
I was never a Blake fan, because of the age thing and I was glad that the FO did not try to give him 3 years. Also, I would agree, that if you look the 2 things together, singing Punto to a higher than his perceived value contract, is an inconsistency in their approach. This is the reason I did not like the Punto singing today. It is a young off-season. I am sure that more changes will come. As far as the outrageous statement by BS (that he is fine with Buscher and Harris), I think that it is just blowing smoke so the Twins do not look too desperate out there for help at 3B. Give it time…
BC,
I’m sure I’ll never convince you (and I don’t care if I do) but, Nick Punto starting at SS is NOT the end of the world. He won’t make the difference between the Twins making the playoffs or not.
thrylos…
this is coming from a GM that:
Signed Nick Punto to 8.5 million
Signed Adam Everett to 2.5 million
Signed Mike Lamb to 2 years 6 million
Low balled Santana and Hunter (and the public by and large bought it).
Then he traded Santana for a kid with insane talent, and maybe an insane inability to utilize it, two mediocre pitching prospects and a kid that the minor league pitching coaches seem to have changed for the worse (short term at least)
He traded away our top pitching prospect last year along with our starting SS, and best relief prospect for a guy that was called the cancer of the Devil Rays and the reason they were bad by the captain of the team all star Carl Crawford… and funny they win the division and go to the WS that year… with Garza being a big reason. While Delmon Young would swing at anything, and not care if he hit a double or a double play.
We still have TOO MUCH OFFSEASON FOR BILL SMITH!
The man could ruin this entire franchise with his brilliance if given the chance.
I will take the Yankees approach, the Red Sox whom I can’t stand because of their fans, and the old Racist Sox… seem to run that organization perfectly…
Spend money on free agents, and develop talent from the minors… trade some of that talent for more mlb talent, and utilize the talent for the big league club when needed.
I am tired of the small market crap too. We are a mid market team, and if the Brewers can afford to put a 100 million dollar offer on the table for Sabbathia… I think we could have dumped 17 million for Blake, or god forbid 35 million for Furcal.
I gotta get some sleep guys. I’ve been up for 40 hours… this insomnia is killing me…
It’s probably making me seem crazier than I really am, lol.
Sorry if I riled anyone up too much.
I’ll be back tomorrow unless there is an act of God.
But if God should act… I hope he’d do something good for the Twins first…
BC, we’re re-living history here. It is your opinion that Hunter and Santana were low-balled, but neither wanted to be here any longer. Point, set, match. Hunter was grossly overpaid and in my opinion Sanatana too. We’ll see how it pans out. And, let’s review the Twins/Rays trade in a couple of years for openers to get a better idea on how it’d working out. Your emotional assessment of the trade is overriding your ability to apply critical analysis.
The Twins now have a SS who hit .284 last year,stole 15 bases and fielded somewhere between OK and fabulously.
They did not have to give up Blackburn, Perkins or an outfielder.
They still have enough payroll room to pick up a third baseman and a reliever.
And best of all, all the sociopathic fans have killed themselves, so it will be safe in the Metrodome next summer.
Life is sweet!
There’s been alot of emotional assessment of the DY/Garza trade. Garza’s performance in TB has been overblown, if you look at his stats. He was 11-9/ 3.70 while Blackburn (for reference) was 11-11/ 4.05. While DY essentially duplicated his numbers from last year except for RBI’s (but improved his average with RISP).
With that said, I agree that we need to wait for at least 2-3 years to see if this was a good trade or not.
sid, well stated. I hope they add a reliever and perhaps a 3rd baseman or any type of impact bat. Personally, I let the build-up to the hot stove season get me fired up for change and it’s not always easy to be patient as many of the “sociopathic fans” on this blog would indicate.
KB, exactly! If the first year edge on this trade would have tilted to the Twins it would have been just as wrong to proclaim the trade a win for the Twins and a loss for the rays.
medschoolmatt
I am still taking it in. 100% agree on the BP and I would take Wiggy over present situation.
What are Casilla’s left and right handed splits?
Dicky (and anyone else)
Casilla hits .290 from the left side, .265 from the right; all stats up from the left side, including a .400 slugging from there.
If that wasn’t enough for you, here is my proposed lineup with just those changes
Span CF
Mauer C
Morneau 1B
Burrell DH
Wiggy 3B
Kubel RF
Young LF
Casilla 2B
Punto SS
I’m not too excited about Wiggy. I can’t quite put my finger on it, but there’s got to be a reason that he’s never really stuck anywhere. He’s got some pretty impressive numbers, but he’s bounced around alot and never really been an everyday player. Sound familiar? That’s what Mike Lamb was before this year.
Name BA OBP SLG OPS Field% at SS
Punto .252 .319 .332 .651 .977
Gagne .254 .302 .382 .684 .972
Mears .258 .299 .374 .673 .965
Guzman .270 .307 .386 .693 .971
Bartlett.276 .337 .362 .699 .967
Harris .269 .330 .408 .738 .970
I can say without a doubt that Nick Punto is the worst hitting starting shortstop we have had in the last 15 years (minus Juan Castro). Even Pat Mears was a better hitter than Nick Punto…I would rather have Brendan Harris at short over Nick Punto. Harris has a career .738 OPS while Nick’s is .651 Nick may have the edge in fielding (.977 to .970) but that works out to be 3 more errors in 500 chances…I would take the extra hitting with 3 more errors anyday and I would challenge anyone to come up with a better argument for starting Punto over Harris at short.
An added analysis to the above^
I had thought about Casilla in his natural #2 in the lineup, but then I saw that even though I am starting the lineup off with 3 lefties in Span, Mauer, Morneau, I did a bit of research and found that their averages against lefties are .283, .361 (!!!), and .284, respectively. Casilla provides a nice little spark at the end of the lineup behind guys like Kubel/Young and ahead of Punto before the top of the order.
It also puts Punto where we all want to see him if he must start - 9th.
KB - I hear you. I think his main issue was staying healthy and finding a niche with the right team. He was subpar for the Mets, then horrible for the Pirates, went back and forth between the Rays and Stros for a couple years (no idea why) and produced well for them, and then had a nice year last year (even in an injury shortened year, he jacked 23 HR’s - not bad).
Wiggy vs Kouz
What i see in Kouz is he has been healthy the last 2 years, he’s young, and is dirt cheap (team control). What I do not like (and its quite a bit) is his glove is not a huge improvement over Buscher’s (and that’s saying something), he K’s a lot, has an OPB below .300 (ouch) and hit the same amount of HR’s in nearly double the AB’s of Wiggy.
Wiggy on the other hand, has had some injury/weight problems, but bounced back nicely last year and had avery good year - in less than 400 AB’s he hit 23 HR’s and drove in nearly 60 runs. He K’s at a lesser rate than Kouz (although only slightly) but has an OBP 50 tics higher (.350 - not bad). He has a solid glove at 3B, and is absurdly versatile in the field - He’s played all infield positions except SS and C, and LF as well. He’s much more pricey, but very reasonable at <5 mill (apparently thats a good price for Punto, why not this guy?).
Just a thought
medschoolmatt,
Agree with the Wiggy/Kouz comparison, but Wiggy is eligible for arbitration this year (and next) and will probably make north of $6.5 mil per year (some of the Astros’ commentary say that he will make as high as $10M, but that would probably be too much)
Must be tough for La Velle to walk around for four days in Vegas. How do you do it? Sigh!
2008 fielding stats at 3B
Field % Range Factor
Wigg .969 2.32
Kouz .974 2.63
So how is Wiggy’s glove solid and Kouz is not?
Thry - north of 6.5? we were offering that to Blake right? Just a thought 
LEN3-Thanks for all the updates. Have a great time. I love it there! I’m staying positive and hoping for a power hitting third baseman.
menlund
I see your point, but I looked at their career numbers at the position (much like you did in your Punto/other Twin SS comparison) and just thought that Wiggy showed me more. If you must, we can agree that they are about equal at 3B, but can Kouz fill in at 2B, 1B, LF, etc in an emergency (and admirably at that)? I am guessing not.
medschool…I agree that Wiggenton is much more versatile and probably the better hitter (although Kouz had to play at the horrible hitters park Petco). I would rather have Kouz just because he is younger, costs less money, and we have a couple utility guys in Tolbert and Punto that could also play those other positions…either one would be an upgrade on what we have now though.
Fair enough; if this team could get either one at little cost (Humber/Bonser + Buscher + prospect) I’d be very happy. Either one could slide into the lineup at the proposed spot for 3B - read up if interested
i dont know if he can play 3b but what do you guys think about giving a one year deal to Mark Grudzielanek
Dano - I would love him; he’s a good vet who regularly bats .300 with a slick glove at 2B and SS. Issue with that is he played 3B WAY back in ‘95 and was poor there (Buscher bad), and never went back. And now we’ve got too many guys who can play his positions (Punto, Tolbert, Casilla, etc) and would rather spend the money he’d commmand (4 mill range) on someone else
I totally agree. If we could get one of those guys for players you mentioned I would be all for it. It would also make me forget about the bad taste in my mouth related to the Nick Punto 2 yr deal.
^That said, I wish we had signed him instead of punto for that kind of money (and he would have gladly taken 1+1, not 2+1) and it wouled have allowed Tolbert and the infield crew at AAA to develop and come on up in a year…oh well.
Dano…I would have liked Grudz at 2nd and move Casilla to short, but since we just signed our great starting shortstop, I don’t know that it would make sense to spend money on another utility type guy.
Mainly I want us to use that money and sign either Pat the Bat or Dunn’s Guns for DH (where’d they’d flourish). I hope we can get it done
I have always like Pat Burrell as a DH. He isn’t the greatest fielder, but consistently puts up good power numbers (avg. 30 homers last 4 years). I don’t know that the Twins could afford him though…actually they could afford him, but I don’t see them spending that kind of money.
Grudzielanek is 38, he last played 3b in 1995 and had a .399 slg last year… 3 hr
Thry - Casilla had a .400 slg last year as a lefty (much less as a righty) - whats your point
the sad things is…Grudz slugging .399 beats Punto, Harris, Buscher, and Tolbert’s slugging % from last year.
I guess I was looking more of a power bat for 3B… The main objection with Grudz is that he will be blocking people like Tolleson and potentially Hughes next year.
Just in case you missed it, Kevin Slowey has an entry in his blog today about the Punto trade… (yes Kevin has a blog)
I am confused…I thought a pitcher’s best friend was a 3-run homer, but that would be impossible for Nicky Punto
[…] Twins Insider – […]
How long before Morneau (and Mauer too, maybe?) decided he’s seen enough, like Santana, and makes it known he wants to go to a team that actually tries to put good players on the field alongside him?
I give it until mid 2011, halfway into season 2 of the new stadium, when the Twins have proven they still think small despite the new revenue.
I still dont agree with the dollar amount, but if the Twins are looking at Derosa, and especially if they end up with Buscher back at third. Then the resigning of Punto will have been a must.If he can stay healthy as an everyday player. I could be wrong about Derosa’s defensive abilities, because I’ve only seen him play a couple of times, and it was at second, but it was definately not impressive.
Also I like the idea of possibly bringing in Joe Crede. When healthy he can bring power from the right side. Maybe the Twins can take it easy on him by giving him some DH at bats and platooning him at third until they get into the new stadium,and he can play on the grass. One more possibility might be Dan Uggla, I could be wrong but I believe he was a third baseman in the minors. He has proven that he can put up power numbers, and he definately wouldn’t be any worse than Buscher or Derosa defensively. I think that the Marlins may be willing to trade him.
I like Wigginton…hits for a good average with power.
The good news is, I decided to bend over before the meetings this year so that my ass might not be so sore come Christmas.
werbellik says:
December 11th, 2008 at 7:57 pm
“due to Punto being re-signed, none of those 3 are legit options. Sure, the cheap Twins may go for them, but none of those three would be worth making a deal for.”
Why does Punto’s re-signing negate the legitimacy of trading for Kouz, Wiggy, or DeRosa? Or, are you insinuating that the Twins are cheap. Or, are you suggesting that none of the 3 are worth trading for regardless of what we give in return? I’m confused..please clarify.
Sure those 3 guys hit more homers then Buscher/Harris platoon, but in the big picture, the Buscher/Harris platoon is better offensively then any of those 3 guys.
medschoolmatt
I go along with the Cuddyer thoughts, I just think he mught have to build value for the Twins to get anything. Maybe a June trade candidate.
As for Pat the Bat, As a DH, I think it would be a good move. Your argument influenced me. Although I do think it is the type of move BS would not make.
Dicky
Glad you see where I am coming from. You make a valid point with Cuddy - if he comes back and looks ok, I would like to see GoGo at AAA for the first couple of months to refine his swing and gain more plate discipline as well as on his angles in Center (I think his speed helps make up for his craziness sometimes). We could roll with Cuddy in Right, Span in Center, Young in Left and Kubel as the backup OF/DH and they could rotate - Kubel is not a bad RF, Young could back up Center, Cuddy could DH and Span can play all three OF positions
BC BENEKE-You are a self annoited perfectionist.Being perfect is a tough bit,on any given day,there is only one way,down.How ,for heaven sakes,can a self admitting perfectionist,analize honestly,a game were if get a hit 3 time and a little more,they put you in the HOF.Put that in your pipe and smoke it!
Good article LEN. My problem isn’t with Punto, it is with Punto plus no 3B, no power in the OF, and no RP, as you state. They could have taken the money they gave Punto and signed a good middle reliever, and given SS or 2B to one of their minor league guys. They could have taken the money they gave Punto and applied it to the Blake deal.
This deal works, IF they use the money they have on something else, as you say. But, let’s be honest, that’s not happened here in MN more than 1 or 2 times in decades.
Nathan is in his 30s and Mauer is a catcher. The window is going to close at some point (ask Milwaukee about that), and if they don’t strike, I don’t know that they’ll ever be more than a nice team.
I still want Pat the Bat brought in to DH, with Kubel either playing RF or being dealt. They have the money, do they have the will? Are they serious about contending or not? We’ll see over the next few months, but I’d bet they don’t add any where near the money they claim they have to spend.
Also, I think that Pat the Bat should at least be on BS’ radar. I just think he’s been real quiet about it. I am sure he heard Morneau loud and clear, and we have considered trading for Dunn (and maybe Pat too?) in the past; now both are FA’s and should go for less than 10 mill (they are not Texiera; I do not foresee his deal impacting their value too much). Honestly, if Wiggy eclipses 6.5 mill and we sign either Pat or Dunn for 10 mill, we roll into Spring Training with a payroll around 75 mill (hardly unreasonable). If that is an issue, Kouz could be had for a similar deal (maybe another prospect thrown in) and he’s under club control (thus very cheap).
I can’t stress enough how doable these deals are. I am not asking them to trade the farm for Beltre or Atkins or trade a legit pitcher for DeRosa (as much as I’d love to have him); these are deals that can be done with limited amount of prospects and reasonable amounts of money all while keeping the core intact. Once they’d trade Cuddy, he’d allow GoGo to come back from AAA with (hopefully) a better swing/plate presence and allow both him and Span to peruse the OF with Young.
Cmon BS - get it done.
Cuddy and a prospect for a 3rd baseman
What about Mike Lowell
Lowell is expensive, older, has somewhat limited range, was injured last year and had a down year offensively (numbers were still good, but not for what he’d command in salary/tradebait).
113 games played (Lowell) on an off year last year. He is 34 still 1 year younger then DeRosa and 2 younger then Blake. He would probably end up costing them (The Twins) around the same amount as those 2 and he has tons of post season experience.
I take that back his salary is 12.5 mill per. To rich for the Twins
I guess I don’t see it - is he a free agent? If not, what’s his salary for the upcoming year?
BC Beneke-opps-get a hit 3+ time’s out of 10,they put you in the Hall of Fame!
^there we go.
also, what team would trade a 3B that we’d actually prefer to our platoon (that costs less than 1 mill) for Cuddy and a prospect?
It’s a crap shoot picking a reliable set-up guy.If they were not inconsistent,they would be closers.In this decade(excluding KC),the team with the best bullpen has won the division!
medschoolmatt don’t worry I have actuallly heard of Lowell and he is not washed up. getting someone of Lowells tallents would be very unlike the Twins so no one should be worrie regarding that acquisition.
I wonder what the oyals would want for Jimmy Gobble. The Twin’s maybe could use him out the bullpen
Can someone clarify something for me on the “no-trade” clause?
Is this something that players (like Adrian Beltre) can add a team whenever they want? Hard to believe that can be done. Then every time a player thinks a handful of teams might be interested in them, they can add that team to the no trade clause, thus increasing the amount to buy them out. Doesn’t sound right? It seems when you sign a contract with teams named, that should stand for the length of the contract…correct?
Or, is this just a “Scott Boras clause?”
Right now the Twins have 13 pitchers on their “active” roster. Which one goes?
SP: Baker, Blackburn, Liriano, Perkins, Slowey.
BP: Bonser, Breslow, Crain, Guerrier, Humber, Jones, Mijares, & Nathan.
Humber and Bonser are out of options and Jones must stay on the Active Roster or be offered back to NY.
Gurrier and Bonser or Mijares and Bonser
unbelievable - its built into the clause that it is the one thing that can be changed, and I think it can be changed once or twice per year, depending on the structure of the deal. Boras essentially worked with Beltre to trade out teams of the clause (and put in teams like ours) so they would get max money (as they know we wouldn’t pay him what they want).
Jimmy - I’d have no problem getting Lowell, but like i said, he is more a name now than anything. He’s had a nice career and had a career year 2 years ago with Boston - helps he was in that absurd lineup - and has since dropped off a bit and has gotten 2 years older (will be 35 next year). All his numbers have gone down considerably, and hitters like Wiggy (who make half as much) produce just as much and have similar gloves and are younger.
Plus I just don’t want to give legit prospects to an organization like the Red Sox who can just buy talent like the Yankees anyway.
Unbelievable,
Usually no trade clauses have a stipulation in them that they can be changed annually or sometimes semi-annually.
Thanks matt and Sweetone…
What does everyone think of Jimmy Gobble out of the Bullpen
jimmy bee,
If Jones makes the club, the Twins will probably carry 12 pitchers. With what Mijares did last September I doubt he will be in AAA.
I do agree that it will be Guerrier or Bonser that are out. Hopefully they will be part of a trade and we don’t just lose them through waivers.
Humber or Bonser are/should be dealt before next year. Otherwise, Jones most likely is either offered back to the Yankees OR (most likely) they’ll not want him back/will take a low-level prospect to allow us to keep him. He could then start for us at AAA.
“Right now the Twins have 13 pitchers on their “active” roster. Which one goes?”
The “active” roster is meaningless until Opening Day.
In the meantime, some will be injured, some will be released, some will be replaced or some will be shipped.
If none of that happens, I’d say Jones and Humber are closest to the door.
GUERRIER BLOWS!!!
HE WAS A ONE YEAR WONDER!!
About Gobble - he’s a lefty (not a huge area of need at the moment since we have Mijares and Breslow, and its possible one of the other guys beats out Perk for the Starting roation, thus relegating him to the pen) and besides 2007 he’s had a mediocre career (last year he was hurrendous, but I think it was due to injuries so I’ll glaze over that).
I think La Velle has lost his mind.
While it is true that rants against nicky p are misguided, the criticism against the signing is dead on accurate. It is not just a bad deal, but a horrible deal. You do not pay a back-up $4 million per even if that back-up is probably the best in the league from a combined defense/offense perspective. You have to keep emotion out of this. Nicky p is in no way a starter. You are not helping your club in any way by keeping him. Let someone else overpay. Given the tightness of the purse strings the contract only hurts you. Losing the guy would not make one bit of difference in the win/loss category and that is what this is about. Save the money, add it to last year’s savings and go overpay for someone that would change the win/loss total even if that means waiting one year to do it. this isn’t about hating on nicky p. it is hating on horrible judgment and being hamstrung by tightwads. Frick, this is bad it makes me sick. Even if the guy manages to hit over 300 - not going to happen, his failure with men on base will erase any benefit of that effort. The guy is punthorrible and that is a fact.
Get a clue people - this front office has its own country club issues just like the timber puppies. That is where we are heading. The only difference is these guys are good enough to play just over 500 ball so that we get sucked into the hope. We will never win until we take a risk. Signing punto is just bad business period.
yes jama - a guy whose career ERA as a long-reliever as 3.66 is a ‘one year wonder’
I’ve seen Gobble many times and I’m not sure he offers much different than someone like Breslow out of the ‘pen….other than he has historically had a much higher ERA. I think last year he really blew up, and with a career ERA over 5.00 (even if he has been on some bad teams) doesn’t sound too appealing.
I think Crain is close to the door. Gurrier was herrendous last year. Bonser is unreliable.
Jimmy - I hate to be arguing with you, but Crain is getting another year unless we get a good trade offer for him. They took into account his recent surgery, and he for wasn’t bad last year (yes he had quite a few bad outtigs, but he was also pretty good in others). He has the fastest fastball on the team now, and still is improving. He gets one more year
Or there is John Grabow from the Pirates who was listed last year in some trade package rumors
Crain and Guerrier have had MLB success in the past.
There is little evidence that Jones or Humber will ever be MLB pitchers.
medschoolmatt No arguing over here on my end. I have heard that we do need BP help and haven’t heard that the help that the Twins need is a RH MR. Have you heard differently. If so can you get me a link.
Sane
Define ‘little evidence’? Are you going strictly off past performance at the ML level or are you just stating it strictly off scouting reports (which give Jones praise for his control, precision, and keeping the ball in the park) and whatnot? I don’t think its fair to go strictly off of past performance in the majors (ie it wouldn’t be fair to say Valencia will never be good simply because he hasn’t been up here yet right?).
I’D HAVE TO SAY THAT THERE’S SOME EVIDENCE THAT hUMBER CAN BE A BIG LEAGUE PITCHER.
medschoolmatt…
Please don’t respond to anything I say you are a douche and I decided that days ago.
jama out
Jimmy
I just didn’t want it to sound like I was arguing 
Yeah, we need a solid RHP, so that is a main reason why Crain won’t go. He is the one legit RHP we have in the BP right now that can throw heat and has had plenty of past success.
jama says:
December 12th, 2008 at 9:47 am
I’D HAVE TO SAY THAT THERE’S SOME EVIDENCE THAT hUMBER CAN BE A BIG LEAGUE PITCHER.
medschoolmatt…
Please don’t respond to anything I say you are a douche and I decided that days ago.
jama out
And stay out
Grabow looks interesting, but again he’s a lefty, and had a great year last year, which judging by past performance (all ERA’s of at least 4.13) he might not repeat
sane have you ever eaten at any of the following places
Bob’s Big Boy
Clearmans Gallery The Boat in Pasadena or West Covina
Houstons
Guerrier was overworked.
As a result he lost his mechanics and then his confidence.
It happens to a lot of relief pitchers.
A fresh start this spring may restore his mechanics, confidence and performance to the level of the previous (2005-2007) three years.
Or not….
Punto, if you’re reading this… YOU SUCK!!!
matt,
Past MLB success is a much better indicator of future MLB success than is past minor league success.
Its no the ONLY indicator, but its the better indicator.
If you think Jones AA (and short AAA) record makes him a more likely MLB pitcher than Crain, Bonser or Guerrier, IMO you are mistaken.
OOPS!
It’s NOT the ONLY……
Sane - I never said he’d be better. I am just saying he has a shot at making the roster (you said he’d never make it). I would not keep him over the names you mentioned, but I have a feeling one/more of them won’t be here next season, which is why i was arguing for a guy like jones
jimmy bee,
Houston’s is one of the best restaurants at which I have ever eaten .
I have been to the Manhattan Beach and the Century City Houston’s. - Outstanding!!!
matt,
I did NOT say “he’d never make it”.
I said “there is little evidence” meaning he hasn’t shown his MLB readiness yet. That is not his fault - AA stats are just not much evidence of MLB success, because 90% of successful AA players fail at MLB.
Most Rule V draftees fail to stick in MLB the following year.
Its just the facts of baseball life.
Jones (and Humber) DOES have a chance to be a Twin pitcher next year, but much less of a chance than Crain, bonser and Guerrier.
Sane - fair enough. We’ll see how it shakes out.
How nice would it be to “lay low in Vegas for a few days” You picked a great weekend to do that Len3.
Am I the only one who thinks the Twins are better off with the Buscher/Harris at third then they would be with DeRosa or Wigginton? Beltre or Kouz would be an upgrade but that’s about it.
BC
In what way is Kouz better than Wiggington? Salary? Age? Other than that, Ty’s glove is the same at 3B, and he can play other positions (Kouz can’t), Ty strikes out less (albeit only a bit less), has a higher average, has an OPS 50 tics higher, has a higher HR rate (23 HR’s last year with 386 AB’s whereas Kouz hits the same amount with over 600 Ab’s)…I could go on.
BC,
Buscher/Harris as 3B
with Blackburn/Perkins/Young
is better than:
Upgraded 3B
WITHOUT
Blackburn/Perkins/Young
sane next month while in So CalI will be going to te Houston’s in Pasadena. I miss winter ball in cal. As for picking up a 3rd baseman we probably won’t. I thik what we have right now is what we will have next season and maybe 1 more MR
med I’m looking at the age differance i think Kouz has more potential to improve. I agree with sane they shouldn’t make a trade just to make a trade there’s nothing wrong with giving the young guys we have another year to see what they can do.
With the Twins payroll down around roughly 20 mill a year from 2 years ago and with the new revenue set to come in from the new ball park why don’t the Twins give Tex it and then kick some major arse.
jimmy bee,
Order the Blackened Prime Rib at Houston’s.
mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm!!!!!
You may be right that our final acquisition will be a former closer turned into a Twins setup man.
jimmybee i said the same thing to my friend the other day how shocked would the baseball world be if BS brought Tex in.
Dream with me for a minute they trade Kubel to the Padres for Kouz then they sign Tex to be the fulltime DH.
The Twins payroll is so low we could actually afford Big Tex without any holdup’s but should we BC of ND. It would be the coolest thing. sane I will take you up on your suggestion for sure.
LNP had 134 less at-bats last year than he did in 2007. Him hitting .284 is such a myth. If he wasn’t out because of injury his average would have plummeted. He also tears it up against KC, Texas, etc…and stinks against good teams.
Your’re tired huh. Must be rough covering one story that should be 12th page news.
In LNP fairness since you think this is a great deal, you and Howard better go off the Kool-Aid and give the haters some cred in Mid-May when he is battling a 1-27 slump, 3 baserunning blunders, and 3 errors that Morneau couldn’t save and tell us “ok, you told me so”
I think detracters would have ok that we signed this guy again for insurance in the infield, but for 4 mill, starter, and the save all to all our woes is our issue. “he has grit” shouldn’t cost 4 mil for a glorified AAA.
Is Pohlad finally dead yet?
sane I used to love going to the Pantry in DownTown LA over by the Staples Center also. BC Manny could come over here for a 3 year deal and still we could easilly afford him and our payroll would still be comfortable and not on the high end
I think you and I and maybe a handful of other fans would love to see Manny in a Twins uniform. Your right about them having the money now so why no try running with the big dogs just once.
Big Tex would be to many years but Manny be Manny on the Twins would be awesome. I would get season tickets
Yeah!
I am sure Gardy can get Manny to play Twins baseball
Manny will be busting his tail and getting after it like Nicky or Gardy will bench his ass!
Stop smoking those things.
They are NOT legal.
“Order the Blackened Prime Rib at Houston’s.”
Thanks alot sane. I skipped breakfast today and you just put me over the edge.
I’d love to see Manny in a Twins uniform, but it is not happening…
The only Manny caliber player with no ties to the Twins cities who was ever signed by the Twins was Steve Carlton and that was right about when he started to collect social security (but it was fun seeing him in the dome in ‘87)
sane Yes Manny as a Twin and Kobe and Gasol as a Timberwolve’s. We will next move USC with Pete Carrol to Eden Prairie. Oh wait sorry about that.
jimmy bee, don’t forget Peyton Manning on the Vikes as long as we’re dreaming big!
webellik,
Skipped breakfast this morning?
Order the Blackened Prime Rib at Houston’s!
You’ll never go back to Wheaties.
I think the Twins should concentrate on shoring up their bullpen before they do anything else. An upgrade at third would be nice, but offense was not the reason the Twins lost last year (besides game 163- but it still hurts thinking about that.) I don’t poke around with other teams and players much, but the Twins are probably negotiating like crazy to get more pitching help. I also think Boof could still be a big contributer for the Twins, if he accepts his new role. It wouldn’t be horrible to see him on the roster again next season.
i’ll chime in on the la dining scene. get a burger at The Apple Pan in West LA
sane No Bob’s Big Boy?
Infield is mostly set with Morneau at 1st, Alexi at 2nd, Punto now at SS, and
(a soon to be named new 3rd baseman).
That leaves Harris, Buscher and Tolbert as reserves and too many. Twins will only carry six infielders. SO, who is the odd man out and were does he go? Back to AAA?
jimmybee,
I ‘v eaten at Bob’s Big Boy in Long Beach, Ca. and in Anoka, Mn., but that is NOT Blackened Prime Rib at Houston’s.
Those Burgers come from a different end of the cow.
How bout Dino’s. I do really wonder if the Twin’s shopping spree is 1 and done. I think that one or two MR is coming up soon then we are set for next year.
sane, love prime rib and anything blackened so it sounds great. By the way, could have used your input into the Punto discussions from yesterday. I think there’s some bloggers who need meds prescribed in order to help them deal with PID (Punto Issues Dysfunction).
Topp Dogg,
The extra 3B probably goes in trade for the new 3B.
but offense was not the reason the Twins lost last year
neither was the pen
2008 Twins (AL average):
OPS: .748 (.756) Stater ERA: 4.32 (4.48) Reliever ERA: 3.91 (4.13)
werbellik,
My feelings are similar to sid, who posted earlier:
The Twins now have a SS who hit .284 last year,stole 15 bases and fielded somewhere between OK and fabulously.
They did not have to give up Blackburn, Perkins or an outfielder.
They still have enough payroll room to pick up a third baseman and a reliever.
And best of all, all the sociopathic fans have killed themselves, so it will be safe in the Metrodome next summer.
Life is sweet!
werbellik Yes I understand what u mean regarding Punto bashers. I don’t know why people hate the most athletic player on the Twins team. LOL. JK. He is a hard worker and I think he gets the team going sometimes. I think he gets blamed for a lot of things ala Flip Saunders
Here is the absurdity of the whole matter (yes Punto is never going to be a great hitter and yes the Twins have overpaid probably for him, but):
He is in a best case scenario an #8 or a #9 hitter. If the biggest problem in this team is the #9 hitter, the Twins will be more than fine next year… Too much talk about him and not about more important things that arguably are more essential to the Twins winning…
Hi, Thrylos,
The numbers may say that the relievers were better than AL average- but there were so many games blown, especially late in the season, that I have a hard believing those stats. The series in Seattle, Detroit (those were miserable), LA, Boston… all were blown by the bullpen. The Twins usually scored enough to have a chance.
mr ground to second-Your Moniker kinda gives away your lack of knowledge .That dude finished fourth in the MVP voting.No wonder private day care costs so much,every kid has access to his own computer!
jimmy bee, although I certainly hope Nick Punto has better things to do than read this blog, he must be aware on some level that there is a fan sector who strongly dislikes him. That said, I give him some credit for staying here! I’m sure the 8.5 million helps!
If someone paid me 8.5 mill I would retire grow a huge Giambi like moustache and drive around in hawaian shirts in a 1970’s Ferrari Dino.
I’ll catch up with you guys later. Gotta go find something blackened for lunch. I’m thinkin’ Famous Daves catfish…..
Jimmy bee -
a Magnum PI you are not
Punto matters because pohlad makes it matter with his tight purse strings. stop saying it doesn’t matter. three plus years of crap free agent signings leaves less money to compete for a true top end FA.
mr ground to second-Your Moniker kinda gives away your lack of knowledge .That dude finished fourth in the MVP voting.No wonder private day care costs so much,every kid has access to his own computer!
I’m talking about the throws from LNP from short. Morneau is a stud and makes Punto look great all the time. Without Morneau making the digs in teh dirt, Punto makes evn more errors.
I just think it is funny how everyone in here thinks they know all the ins and outs of being a major league GM. Some of the so called trades that can happen are just ludicrous giving up 2 starters and a prospect for a player who by everyones claim is not much better than what we have on the roster anyways. And how do you even know that GM is looking to trade this player? A gut feeling or just your all baseball GM knowledge. And for all of you who want to trade one of our starting pitchers who are you going to have take there place a AAA or AA player you just dont understand the logic of this if you give up someone you have to plug someone in there and I am not claiming I know all about who we have sitting in the minors but they are in the minors for a reason and I would much rather go into this season with 5 starters who were in a playoff type situation down the streach then to go in with 4 or 3 proven, even if it for only a year, starters and 1 or 2 question marks.
Sometimes the best deal is no deal. For example:Garza, Bartlett for Young, Harris, Pridie. Just because nothing happened in Vegas does’t mean nothing will happen.
LEN3-Do you remember what Beltre’s reaction was when he was part of trade speculation last year?Boras is bluffing,after all he,s in Vegas!Even his bluff works to some degree,that will counterbalanced by Seattle need to dump salary in this bad economy.Stay the course and don’t dangle DY or top3starter.Don’t panic about a set up guy,something will shake out by the end of spring training!
jimmy bee says:
December 12th, 2008 at 11:30 am
If someone paid me 8.5 mill I would retire grow a huge Giambi like moustache and drive around in hawaian shirts in a 1970’s Ferrari Dino.
That is, by far and away the greatest “what I would do if I were rich” dream I have ever heard of. I salute you.
thrylos98 says:
December 12th, 2008 at 11:17 am
but offense was not the reason the Twins lost last year
neither was the pen
2008 Twins (AL average):
OPS: .748 (.756) Stater ERA: 4.32 (4.48) Reliever ERA: 3.91 (4.13)
That takes into account the whole year, when the late season meltdowns are what concerns people. And, while slightly above average for the year is ok, there is definately room for improvement.
ok, I’m back, and I actually got some sleep. Let’s see if we can keep my temper down today, lol.
Geno i agree about the bullpen there’s what at least 100 pitchers in the Twins minor league system right now? I would think they could find one or two that might be able to help.
I sure hope the Twins can get a big bat for 3B. We need that to compete with the best teams. Otherwise it,s just luck for the Twins to go deep in the playoffs. With one more big stick I think we can compete.
That takes into account the whole year, when the late season meltdowns are what concerns people
Agreed… here is the whole year numbers again:
OPS: .748 (.756) Stater ERA: 4.32 (4.48) Reliever ERA: 3.91 (4.13)
and here are the September numbers:
OPS:.739 Starter ERA:4.92 Reliever ERA:3.68
(that’s why some of us are saying that the BP is ok and that BS should be looking for at least one starter to replace Perkins next season and should focus on the bats.)
Thrylos…
I think Perkins will be a fine starter. Never more than a 3rd starter in the MLB probably, but every team needs a 3rd starter.
Thry
Mijares made all the difference in September didnt he? Can’t wait to see him continue
I would love a Martinez or Randy Johnson or even Wolf as a stop gap. We’ll see what starter they get (if any)
medschool…
Pedro Martinez with this rotation and this pen could be a beautiful thing. That could put Perkins into the pen… 3 tough lefties… I would go to bat with that pitching staff
Even with Nicky Punterrible.
I’n not sure if Pedro is even close to the old Pedro but i agree adding him or Johnson would bring a nice veteran presence to the rotation.
Pedro had hamstring issues and his fastball was not the same as last year. 2 years removed from shoulder surgery he should be better next season. That said, opponents batter only .175 off his curve even in an off year. Another thing that Pedro will bring to the club is an automatic “big brother” for Liriano (and Gomez and Casilla) which can be extremely valuable to this team.
dy and harris will be gone before spring training because they aren’t gardy’s kind of players and imo they will get $.50 on the dollar for them.
with all the nicky love is he a lock first ballot hall of famer now?
He won’t even talk to teams until January, but I have a feeling we’ll lose out on to the Mets.
I’m available! Have BS give me a call for that 3B spot.
So does anyone think Mike Lowell would be a good fit at 3B? The rumor is if the RedSox sign Tex they will move Youk to 3rd and trade Lowell.
ND BC
had this convo with another blogger earlier; he’s too old/expensive (if he was Blake money, sure but not Beltre money) and seems to be on the decline. his glove is average and his bat isn’t all that great.
med that’s what i was thinking to way to much money for what your getting unless the RedSox ate some of his contract.
Lowell? The Bosox would want way too much for him for us to even dream about it. It would be a good, but very expensive, addition for us. Stats show his glove is better than average at 3B and he’s a pretty good clutch hitter.
LEN3,
any chance the Twins will look at Freddy Sanchez of Pitts? If they are looking at Derosa, why not sanchez? about the same player.. He can play 2nd,SS or 3b.. Hes also couple years younger than Derosa.. Read an article that the Pirates are trying to unload Sanchez, Wilson and Adam Laroche for young players to fill those spots.
The Angels don’t sign Sabathia or Teixiera.
They don’t try to re-sign Jon Garland and Garrett Anderson.
They pass on K-Rod and lose him to the Mets.
There’s a rumor that Torii wants to come back to the Twins because the Angels are always waiting for next year and never try to win it THIS year.
I know that rumor is out there, because I started it.
lol @ sane
We wouldn’t take him back - not at that contract. Especially when we invested a major talent (Santana) into getting his predecessor (Gomez).
also - he’ll actually have to produce on his own then instead of look good in a stacked lineup
Sane all my co workers are looking at me now they think i’m really nuts now thanks.
Wow - 3 year 10 mill/year for Ibanez? At 36? Really?
Torri can play third, right?
The Angels: Proving that it’s not about where or how often you beat the Red Sox, it’s about when you beat them.
Ibanez and Blake are not on their death beds.
Free agents are old players by definition. Five years in the minors, followed by five years in the majors won’t make you a 26-yr-old Free Agent.
Check the ages of available free agents in the link below:
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2007/12/2009-mlb-free-a.html
I noticed Aaron Boone on the list for 3rd baseman. As for Doug Mientkiewicz (35) that’s a shocker
What Aaron Boone is still out there and the Twins haven’t called his agent yet? Seriously though why haven’t we heard Joe Crede’s name come up is he a type A free agent?
Seriously though why haven’t we heard Joe Crede’s name come up is he a type A free agent?
Because we have heard of him before. The Twins only get cheap players whom no one has ever heard of before or they have to be old an decrepit
“Seriously though why haven’t we heard Joe Crede’s name come up is he a type A free agent?”
Why would you WANT to hear Joe Crede’s name?
I really am amazed. Posters complain and complain about the Twins picking up washed up veterans, and then with the same breath they suggesting we pick up players like Pedro Martinez and Joe Crede.
So the problem isn’t that the Twins are picking up old, washed up players. They just aren’t picking up the old, washed up players you want.
Doesn’t Joe Crede have back problems, making it risky for him to play on artificial turf? If he is injured, he won’t be too helpful on the team.
How bout’ Eric Chavez
La Velle: I REALLY enjoy your stuff. I’m a Twin Cities native, but now live in Florida. Love Gardy except for the fact he has his favorite players and it is getting in the way of making this team better. Delmon is 23, hit 290 in his 2nd year in the bigs, and had never played left before. Trade him??? Why??? He’s only going to get better. Kubel is the guy in the outfield that needs to go. He’s never going to be the player the Twins thought he would be. He’s marginal in the field, an okay DH and a lefty which we don’t need in the lineup. So answer me this…when is someone in the organization or the local media going to just say it? Cuddy’s contract makes him untradable, The upside on Span, Gomex and Young is huge SO JASON IS THE GUY THAT SHOULD GO! There are at least 6-free agents the Twins could get and afford that would be better at DH than Kubel. Is Gardy’s ‘Man-Crush” on Kubel so huge that you can’t even talk about it?
Come on people face the facts with this situation.
Sorry Pete D i didn’t realize that at age 30 Crede was washed up. Your right Swammie that might be a reason.
Gardy doesn’t have a “man-crush” on Kubel.
Kubel would require a personality transplant, for that to happen.
Top Free Agents…
1. CC Sabathia
Age: 28
Position: Starting pitcher
Club in 2008: Brewers
Old best fit: Dodgers
Signed with: Yankees
His seven-year, $161 million contract, a record for a pitcher, puts him in a tough spot. If he contends for the Cy Young award each and every season, he’ll only be doing what he’s supposed to do; if he comes up a bit short, he’ll be a viewed as a historic failure. Accepting that pressure is worth an extra $61 million, I suppose.
2. Mark Teixeira
Age: 28
Position: First baseman
Club in 2008: Angels
Old best fit: Yankees
New best fit: Angels
Both the Nationals and Orioles have reportedly made huge offers (eight years and $160 million in the Nats’ case) to the switch-hitting Maryland native, but that might not be enough to land Teixeira. The Red Sox and Yankees are firmly in the mix, but Angels owner Arte Moreno will probably do whatever it takes to bring Teixeira back.
3. Manny Ramirez
Age: 38
Position: Outfielder
Club in 2008: Dodgers
Old best fit: Dodgers
New best fit: Dodgers
At the winter meetings, Dodgers GM Ned Colletti compared negotiations with Manny to “like watching the San Andreas Fault.” I still believe Manny will end up with the Dodgers, but he won’t be happy with the contract, which likely won’t be much more than he would have earned had he just stayed in Boston, and we all know what’s bound to happen if you watch the San Andreas Fault long enough.
4. Francisco Rodriguez
Age: 27
Position: Relief pitcher
Club in 2008: Angels
Old best fit: Angels
Signed with: Mets
What a bullpen the Mets now have, with K-Rod closing for them (thanks to his three-year, $37 million deal, about half as much in total as he initially sought) and J.J. Putz setting him up! Right? Unless Rodriguez’s velocity continues to decrease, and Putz continues to struggle to stay healthy … but let’s not talk about that now.
5. A.J. Burnett
Age: 31
Position: SP
Club in 2008: Blue Jays
Old best fit: Braves
New best fit: Braves
Brittle in the past but threw a career-high 221.1 innings in 2008, which was (guess what?) his contract year. His 231 strikeouts led the American League, and his filthy stuff has GM’s salivating — but I think the Braves, not the Yankees, will win out.
6. Derek Lowe
Age: 35
Position: SP
Club in 2008: Dodgers
Old best fit: Red Sox
New best fit: Red Sox
A bit boring, sure, but has topped 200 IP in six of last seven seasons and is a proven postseason performer. He’ll be a rotation’s glue, and will be duly rewarded. Should they not sign Teixeira, the Red Sox will have plenty to spend on Lowe.
7. Rafael Furcal
Age: 31
Position: Shortstop
Club in 2008: Dodgers
Old best fit: Dodgers
New best fit: Dodgers
Would be much higher (perhaps No. 4) if not for back issues that limited him to 36 games in ‘08. That he turned down a good offer from the A’s (four years, between $35 million and $40 million) points to a return to L.A.
8. Orlando Cabrera
Age: 34
Position: SS
Club in 2008: White Sox
Old best fit: Blue Jays
New best fit: Blue Jays
Blue Jays manager Cito Gaston clearly covets Furcal — in his meeting with the Toronto beat writers he must have mentioned his name a half-dozen times — but might have to settle for Cabrera, who will fill the Jays’ need for a leadoff-hitting shortstop.
9. Oliver Perez
Age: 27
Position: SP
Club in 2008: Mets
Old best fit: Mets
New best fit: Mets
Regressed a bit from ‘07 to ‘08 (ERA and WHIP jumped and K-rate dropped), but riches await lefthanded strikeout artists of this age. Would be a fine consolation prize for the Mets should they lose out on Lowe, etc.
10. Adam Dunn
Age: 29
Position: OF
Club in 2008: Diamondbacks
Old best fit: Angels
New best fit: Nationals
As unfairly maligned as any player with five straight 40+ home run seasons and a .365+ OBP can be. Nats fans dreaming of Teixeira will be disappointed if this long-time Jim Bowden favorite is signed instead, but Dunn will be far more affordable and he should continue to produce for a club that desperately needs some offensive juice.
31. Garret Anderson
Alltime saves leader Trevor Hoffman has pitched for the San Diego Padres since 1993, but he could be headed elsewhere this winter.
AP
Age: 36
Position: OF
Club in 2008: Angels
Old best fit: Padres
New best fit: Braves
The Angels declined to pick up his option ($14 million), and there are a number of teams that could use him at a significantly reduced salary. The Braves are one.
32. Trevor Hoffman
Age: 41
Position: RP
Club in 2008: Padres
Old best fit: Padres
New best fit: Brewers
While manager Bud Black insisted in Vegas that all bridges between the Padres and Hoffman haven’t been burned, a return to San Diego seems unlikely after the Padres enraged the all-time saves leader by withdrawing their contract offer to him.
33. Joe Crede
Age: 30
Position: 3B
Club in 2008: White Sox
Old best fit: Twins
New best fit: Twins
A very difficult player to value. He’s an excellent defender and true power hitter when healthy, but back problems have limited him to 144 games played over the past two seasons, and back problems usually don’t just go away. After negotiations with Casey Blake fell apart, Minnesota could still use some power and a third baseman, and could take a chance on Crede.
34. Randy Johnson
Age: 45
Position: SP
Club in 2008: Diamondbacks
Old best fit: Diamondbacks
New best fit: Giants
As inconsistent as he is now, the Big Unit can still accumulate strikeouts by the bushel-full, and had some magnificent stretches last season (an August in which he posted a 2.46 ERA, for instance). Both Bay Area teams are interested, but Johnson is said to be leaning toward the Giants, where he’d make for a terrific No. 4 or 5 starter in what is shaping up to be a strong Tim Lincecum-led rotation.
35. Jeremy Affeldt
Age: 29
Position: RP
Club in 2008: Reds
Old best fit: Giants
Signed with: Giants
We nailed this one: Affeldt was the first free agent to sign, and he went to the team that we believed to be the best fit for him. For $8 million over two years, the Giants get a dependable lefty reliever coming off his best season yet in 2008. He handles righties (.255 BAA) as well as lefties (.269).
36. Paul Byrd
Age: 38
Position: SP
Club in 2008: Red Sox
Old best fit: Brewers
New best fit: Marlins
You know what you’re going to get from this sturdy old-schooler: somewhere around a .500 record, and somewhere around a 4.50 ERA. That promise will be attractive to a team in need of a veteran No. 4 or No. 5 starter, and the Marlins, who play in pitcher-friendly Dolphin Stadium, are interested.
37. Ken Griffey Jr.
Age: 39
Position: OF
Club in 2008: White Sox
Old best fit: Mariners
New best fit: Mariners
The Kid significantly declined last season (the Sox were surely hoping for more than three HR and 18 RBI in 41 games after they acquired him from Cincinnati), but he’ll continue his run up the all time homer list as, perhaps, a part-timer where it all began.
38. Braden Looper
Age: 34
Position: SP
Club in 2008: Cardinals
Old best fit: Braves
New best fit: Orioles
Unexpectedly became a reasonably effective starter (24-26) in two seasons in St. Louis after spending his first nine as a reliever. But his K-rate is low (just 4.7 per nine innings), and what happens if he leaves the tutelage of St. Louis pitching coach Dave Duncan? The Orioles are desperate to do something in this market, so they might bite, but it might not end well.
39. Will Ohman
Age: 31
Position: RP
Club in 2008: Braves
Old best fit: Tigers
New best fit: Rockies
Won’t make you say, “Oh, man!,” but lots of teams will covet a dependable middle reliever like him. Seriously, take your pick; while I originally thought he might fit in well in Detroit, their pursuit of Joe Beimel means I now like him in Colorado.
40. Kevin Millar
Age: 37
Position: 1B
Club in 2008: Orioles
Old best fit: Red Sox
New best fit: Pirates
Average keeps declining (to .234 last season), but his pop (20 HR, 72 RBI) will find him a platoon or reserve role somewhere. The Pirates have been talking about him, and he’d probably get as much playing time there as anywhere else.
41. Nick Punto
Age: 31
Position: 2B
Club in 2008: Twins
Old best fit: Twins
Signed with: Twins
Versatile utilityman has less power than a moped (11 career HR), but plays everywhere, can steal some bases and usually hits near .300. Minnesota doesn’t care all that much about power, and the two-year, $8.5 million deal to which they signed him during the meetings means he’ll probably be their everyday shortstop through 2010.
42. Jon Garland
Age: 29
Position: SP
Club in 2008: Angels
Old best fit: Cardinals
New best fit: Cardinals
Went 14-8 in his walk year in Anaheim but had 4.90 ERA, and has never equaled his ‘05 campaign (18-10, 3.50) in which he finished sixth in the AL Cy Young voting. A move to the NL would help.
43. Mark Kotsay
Age: 33
Position: OF
Club in 2008: Red Sox
Old best fit: Reds
New best fit: Red Sox
Represents a reasonable value as a fourth outfielder, and perhaps increased his potential usefulness by playing a solid first base for the Sox after Mike Lowell went down and Kevin Youkilis was shifted to third. If the Sox don’t sign Teixeira, Youkilis and Lowell will start the season at the corners of the infield and Kotsay could again play a backup role.
44. Pedro Martinez
Age: 37
Position: SP
Club in 2008: Mets
Old best fit: Nationals
New best fit: Mets
Many thought the Mets would get two good years out of his four-year deal; they got one, his first. His next contract could yield fewer than that, and as such will likely be largely incentive-based. Omar Minaya still likes him, so why not take another chance, this time with a seriously diminished downside risk?
45. Rocco Baldelli
Age: 27
Position: OF
Club in 2008: Rays
Old best fit: Rays
New best fit: Rays
Admirably dealt with his mitochondrial disease in the postseason, but the energy-sapping disorder makes him necessarily a part-time player. Even so, was the best of the Rays’ rightfield options down the stretch, and would be a fine reserve going forward.
46. Jim Edmonds
Age: 38
Position: OF
Club in 2008: Cubs
Old best fit: Cubs
New best fit: Cubs
Looked done in 26 games with San Diego (1 HR, 6 RBI) but surged after moving to the Cubs (19 HR, 49 RBI in 85 games). Still a competitor, and still useful, as long as he doesn’t retire.
47. Ivan Rodriguez
Age: 37
Position: C
Club in 2008: Yankees
Old best fit: A’s
New best fit: Marlins
Gave the Yankees virtually nothing after they acquired him from the Tigers (.219 average, 2 HR, 3 RBI in 33 games), and he’s not nearly what he used to be defensively. The Marlins recently cut backup Matt Treanor, so they have a reserve role to fill, and Pudge could work well with their young staff.
48. Scott Eyre
Age: 36
Position: RP
Club in 2008: Phillies
Old best fit: Phillies
Signed with: Phillies
Southpaw struggled with the Cubs but was terrific after trade to Philadelphia: 1.88 ERA, .767 WHIP in 19 appearances, and lefties hit .220 against him. New Phillies GM Ruben Amaro rewarded him with a one year, $2 million extension.
49. Felipe Lopez
Age: 28
Position: 2B
Club in 2008: Cardinals
Old best fit: Astros
Signed with: Diamondbacks
Orlando Hudson hasn’t signed anywhere yet, but the D’backs’ acquisition of Lopez means they’re ready to move on without him. Looked revitalized after becoming a Cardinal midway through the season (hit .385 as a St. Louis reserve), and he’ll have every chance to become Arizona’s everyday second baseman.
50. Jason Varitek
Age: 36
Position: C
Club in 2008: Red Sox
Old best fit: Red Sox
New best fit: Red Sox
Warhorse can still call a game, as his agent, Scott Boras, will tell you, but offensively he has a giant fork sticking out of his latissimus dorsi (.220 BA, .313 OBP in ‘08). Most likely scenario has the Sox keeping their captain around one more year to mentor the younger backstop they’ll look to acquire. I believe he made a mistake by not accepting arbitration.
crede would be a fine fit as the report says, but a) his back won’t appreciate the dome turf and b) Boras is his agent, so he’ll try and get him as overpaid as possible
BC of ND -
Only playing in 144 games the past two years and having a career OBP of .306 pretty much equals washed up to me.
Hi Shookit:
I wouldn’t say Gardy has anything to do with Kubel staying on the Twins roster (I haven’t seen any evidence that Gardy favors him irrationally), but it is surprising how few people consider him as a trading piece. Most of the trading talk swirls around Span, Gomez, Young, and Cuddy, but people forget or leave out the fifth outfielder/DH. I wonder if any teams are interested in someone like Kubel- and I wonder what he would be worth.
Kubel would probably get a fair at best MR. Might as well keep him and maybe he will improve on last years season
Hey Jake S where did you get that report from? Pete D like the article says he has had back problems that limited him and i know that’s an issue but it also makes him more affordable I agree with med though the Dome would not be the best fit for him.
Billy Smith = POOP!!!
Last year Crede had 17 HR and 55 RBI in only 97 games.
That means that most of the Twins power hitters have less pop than “washed-up’ Joe.
sane,
Crede has a career .306 OBP (Punto has a career .319 OBP, Hocking had a career .310 OBP and Newmie a career .304 OBP)
IMO, OBP isn’t the Holy Grail.
I am not a member of the Bill James cult.
Crede can end games with one swing.
The Twins should know.
As far as “back problems usually don’t just go away”, neither does drug addiction. (see Josh Hamilton)
sane -
While OBP definitely isn’t the Holy Grail, Joe Crede still only has a career slugging percentage of .447. His career OPS+ is 93. He doesn’t slug enough to make it worth the downgrade in OBP over someone like Harris. Given his back injuries, I’d stay away.
BC, I got the updates on free agents from here…
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writers/ben_reiter/12/12/reiter.top50/index.html?eref=T1
sane did Josh Hamilton relapse recently or anything of that nature
Crede’s power came with maturity.
His SLG lately is:
2005 .460
2006 .506
2007 injured played 47 games.
2008 .454
jb,
“Did Josh Hamilton relapse recently?”
I don’t think so, but I’m sure he wants to every day. I hope he can fight it off.
between Hamilton and Milton Bradley if I were the Ranger’s coach I would wear a bullet proof vest to work everyday
Yeah, but what a pair of hitters!
sane if somehow we could get Big Tex to bat behind Morneau it would be devistating
jimmy bee, that would be awesome. Can Tex play third :)?
Yes and we would easilly be able to afford him
Jimmy,
The Twins wouldn’t offer a 10-year-contract to Pohlad’s son.
There is NO WAY they will (or could) offer Teixeira anywhere close to what he and Boras want.
Hey Sane out of all the MLB players in the league what % would you say have back problems?
