Twins tender contracts to every player
Posted on December 12th, 2008 – 2:40 PMBy La Velle
As expected, the Twins have tendered contracts to every player they were required to. Any player non-tendered a contract by today would have become a free agent.
Players part of multi-year deals - like Joe Mauer, Justin Morneau, Michael Cuddyer, Joe Nathan, Jesse Crain, Mike Redmond (option picked up), Phil Humber (final year of five-year deal signed with Mets) and now Nick Punto - don’t have to be tendered.
It’s always interesting to see the list of non-tendered players who drop into the free agent market. That list should be out soon.
Now, for a little entertainment.
Check out this unique perspective of the winter meetings.
Something I said while in THAT bathroom wound up in the story.
317 Responses to "Twins tender contracts to every player"
BC, I got the updates on free agents from here…
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writers/ben_reiter/12/12/reiter.top50/index.html?eref=T1
I feel honored that I’m being brought up, lol.
Thanks
what about mike lowell..
if tex lands with boston would the twins go after lowell? would boston pay part of his salary? boston wants a 5th outfielder. or 4th.. so send them cuddy?
Ahhh what a good story.
LEN III
This quote has you written all over it.
“Boras does his job, you know. But he has no personality at all. Dude’s a robot.”
Correct? You really should have washed your hands.
Man I hope you ended up washing your hands directly after exiting the bathroom.
I just don’t see us getting Joe Crede.
LaVelle any info on approximately what you think it would take financially to get him?
One should wash their hands anytime Scott Boras is mentioned in a sentence
I don’t think Joe Crede would be a smart idea. If people were worried about Blake’s age…I’d say Crede’s track record of injury (combined with regular play time on turf) would be an automatic “uh-no”.
I get the feeling Joe Crede would turn into Rondell White. Come in with high hopes, get hurt, and leave the Twins back where they started (but with a contract they can’t get rid of)
La Velle,
was the last quote yours? (or the one about the food?)
Great link!
I don’t think it would be a bad idea to make a 2 year offer to Crede. I would be careful though you don’t want to pay what he’d be worth if he weren’t injury prone.
how long do you guys think it will take for the dy on the bench or pt dh thing as gardy has indicated is his plan going to take to blow up into a real, if only in the media, problem?
From a purely baseball standpoint Crede would be great but if he can’t physically handle the turf he has no value to us. I really want him to play third but I’m afraid it’s just not feasible this year.
isn’t there a dirt cutout around 3b in the dome? or is it small so he would play mostly on the the turf?
gobbledygookguy says:
December 12th, 2008 at 3:48 pm
isn’t there a dirt cutout around 3b in the dome? or is it small so he would play mostly on the the turf?
I suppose we could say “Joe, whatever you do don’t leave the dirt cutout.” LOL
I think Lowell is an interesting idea. The guy can flat out hit. The risk with him is obviously injury, and whether or not he’ll be able to play 140-150 games.
I’m still on the Wiggington bandwagon though. He’s got a very affordable contract, 31 years old throughout next season and he can hit AND play solid D. Send them Perkins and a couple of prospects and get him up here.
The 3:36 comment is not from me.
I think there is about a 3% chance that the Twins sign Crede. I think he wants way more money than he is worth. Now if he wanted to sign a one or two year deal with incentives I would be interested.
Jake
Wigginton can’t hit or play defense any better than what the Twins already have. Giving up Perkins for him would be robbery.
JakeS
Just commenting on the link you provided. Anyone read it through to where they talked about Punto? Consitantly near .300 average? Wow…get a clue!!
I’m against Wigginton solely based on his ridiculous last name. And we already have enough Joes, so we don’t need Crede.
ggg,
It’s not really the dirt/turf that’s the problem, it’s the concrete that is underneath it.
The real problem is that there is no “give” to the playing surface at the dome.
Matt, it was laughable…
What’s “a real, if only in the media, problem?” Either it’s real or it’s not.
Thanks for the link, LEN3… good stuff.
Kinda interesting trying to guess which quote was yours. I trust you’ll share that info with us eventually.
Thanks for keeping up the blog during the Winter Meetings and enjoy your couple of extras days in Vegas.
No to Wiggington please. Unless we can get him by sending the Astros a bucket of balls. I’ve been a big Beltre fan but having him add the Twinks to his NTC has turned me off a little bit. Even if it’s business related and not personal, I think adding the compensation we’d have to give him to waive the NTC on top of what we’d have to give up in trade would be too much. I’m firmly behind Kouzmanoff now. He’s young, can hit, and isn’t as horrible with the glove as most people think. He’s got great home/road splits and the production he put up playing in San Diego is impressive.
thrylos,
The food comment was not mine.
And, folks, I’ve received no indications that the Twins are interested in Joe Crede. He’s a Boras guy with a a history of back problems, which doesn’t bode well on FieldTurf.
I think Lowell could be a good pickup. He’s older but is a good hitter and depending on how we structure our bench we could have Buscher and/or Harris to play third and rest him. The thing about Lowell is he may not require any important pieces to go back to the Red Sox.
I’m not a fan of Mora, but I’m kind of surprised the Twins haven’t made any deals with McPhail since he went to Baltimore. I guess he’s pretty removed from his Twins days by now.
lowell had hip surgery so he may not do well on the turf either and he may not be ready until after the season starts.
Forget Lowell; he’s old and hit in a lineup loaded with other good hitters in a hitters’ friendly park.
Wig or Kouz at 3b okay.
Don’t get too down; 2009 is looking good; remember, Span and Liriano didn’t start until at or after the half-way point of the season and other players came on strong after the 2nd half (except Morneau).
So, we’re already better than we were at the beginning of the ‘08 season.
Jeez, can’t Cuddy learn to play 3b?
[…] Twins Insider – […]
Atlanta just non-tendered Chuck James. Anyone who thinks that he has a better chance to stick with the Twins next year than Jason Jones, please raise your hands (mine is raised)
La Velle,
if the food quote was not yours, then the blog quote (the second one) must have been
“Hey man, how’s the blog world treatin’ ya?”
“Shut up.”
correct?
was Gleeman the questioner?
So, we’re already better than we were at the beginning of the ‘08 season.
Maybe…
here are the buts:
* If the Indians finalize the Wood signing, they will be better next season despite the fact that Cliff Lee will not repeat… I assume that they will be healthier.
* There are indications (read Twins’ related reports the last week or so) that Mijares and Young will probably play secondary roles next year
* Unless he improves his secondary pitches and learns how to spot his fastball Perkins next year will not win half the games he won last year
* It is practically guaranteed that the Twins will not repeat their crazy hitting with RISP
Chuck James - we’d have to sign him to a deal. Not real impressed. If we are going to bump Jones for a FA, I’d rather spend a tad more and get Jesus C 
thrylos98 says:
December 12th, 2008 at 4:54 pm
So, we’re already better than we were at the beginning of the ‘08 season.
Maybe…
here are the buts:
* If the Indians finalize the Wood signing, they will be better next season despite the fact that Cliff Lee will not repeat… I assume that they will be healthier.
* There are indications (read Twins’ related reports the last week or so) that Mijares and Young will probably play secondary roles next year
* Unless he improves his secondary pitches and learns how to spot his fastball Perkins next year will not win half the games he won last year
*****It is practically guaranteed that the Twins will not repeat their crazy hitting with RISP*****
I starred the main one that will be the worry of mine and the rest of Twins fans. It’s why we need to get a run producer in this lineup soon or we are in deep doodoo.
Also - Mijares plays a limited role? Where did you read that Thry? We used him as the main set-up man in game 163 and he did wonders, yet we aren’t going to use him next year (as much)? I find that hard to believe, especially when we’ve done nothing in the offseason to add to the BP
Not only the Indians will be healthy - so will we. Morneau and Cuddy will be 100% fresh.
I agree on Perkins - he’s the only starter I’d consider trading.
please no kouz or wiggy. id rather keep our rotation intact and roll with harris and butcher.
Yanks Snag Another One!
Burnett, Yankees reach deal…
Story Highlights
A.J. Burnett agrees to a five-year contract with the New York Yankees
Burnett won a career-high 18 games for the Toronto Blue Jays in 2008
NEW YORK (AP) — The New York Yankees have reeled in another top pitcher, reaching agreement with A.J. Burnett on a five-year contract.
Burnett won a career-high 18 games with Toronto this season and then became a free agent.
Earlier this week, the Yankees reached a deal with ace CC Sabathia for seven years and $161 million.
Burnett’s agreement was confirmed Friday by the office of his agent, Darek Braunecker. It was first reported by foxsports.com.
Oh no…The yanks now have 2 more overpaid starting pitchers
We have the richest owner in baseball and he won’t spend $3-4m more to get a decent player… Sigh!
Deez - explain why you don’t want either? Both would be huge upgrades power-wise, both have gloves better than the platoon’s combination (Harris is better on his own but not by much). Average is a tad down in Wiggy’s case, a huge drop in Kouz’ case, but Wiggy would make a lot of sense (and he’s versatile in the field in case of emergencies).
Jake - he spent over 4 mill to get a ‘decent’ player in Punto
Med, get off the meds… LOL
Don’t judge me Jake
There will be moves, I can feel it, just have no idea when and who. BS won’t sit on his hands.
matt,
his career averages are .270 15hr 50. at his age i don’t think he’ll get any better. i think we could that kind of production out of harris and buscher without having to give up a perkins.
Wow. Yankees are going to have a rotation worth more than the payrolls of what…50% of the league?
wiggy that is
Money not spent on free agents, let get Mauer signed longer term and sign some of these young pitchers, like baker and lirano, to some contracts to eat up some free agent years.
If we can keep our young studs I can accept the cheapness a lot easier.
Deez - he’s only been in the league since 02; he was terrible in the beginning, and a couple seasons he was shortened to less than 200 Ab’s due to injury. However, in the last 2 seasons he had 16 and 23 HR’s respectively with less than 400 AB’s. If we can get him to 400 AB’s for us, he would give us that kind of production (I agree on the averages). And its kinda hard to get past 50-60 RBI’s when you’ve only had 350 AB’s or less am I right?
T,
it doesn’t matter what the Yankees do. They spend their money in pitchers who pitch once every five days and meanwhile Swisher is projected as a starter for them… And also, I bet that most in the Yankees front office have not realized that CC’s ERA in the (old) Yankee Stadium is a robust 8.61.
This iteration of the Yankees (post daddy Steinbrenner) really reminds me of the Yankees in the 80s. I guess mid-life crises in the Steinbrenner clan are expressed as stupid baseball spending…
Kousmanoff’s career OPS is 138 points higher away than it is at home (the cavernous Petco Park)
.818 vs .680
very good point. is his health a concern then? im just not too crazy about the idea. if i had to choose between the two i would rather have kouz though.
*****It is practically guaranteed that the Twins will not repeat their crazy hitting with RISP*****
I agree. Twins were the only team in MLB to hit over .300 in RISP. I can’t see it happening again.
Plus where was that hitting in the Chicago tiebreaker game? The Sox showed us that power can win games. Twins don’t need to go overboard (not like they would for power hitters) but need to help Morneau out.
Lavelle, is Dan Uggla available, and if so, do you think he can play third, and again if so, do you think that the Twins would have any interest?
Deez - from what I can tell, he’s breaking bones in his left hand the last 2 years. I can’t say whether its from him in the field or if it is him getting hit on the hand by a pitch. anyone know?
he seems to heal rather quickly though (he’s not out for ages like Cuddy…). And being able to hit with a healing broken bone in your hand is rather impressive. Kouz is preferable if only for his age and salary. Wiggy has the upperhand in every other category
Although LasVegasDave makes an intriguing point…
medschoolmatt,
I know, it’s shocking. Petco is huge, but its amazing the differnce there.
BA .282 (away) vs .243 (home)
OBP .322 vs .306
SLG .459 vs .434
Here is another telling stat:
BAbip away .328
BAbip home .286
That’s 42 points! Petco must be a huge factor in BA for balls hit in play.
hmm..how about Peavy then (and other pitchers like Young etc…does Petco inflate his stats too? I would assume so. Too lazy to look up splits.
LV Dave
also what is amazing: 2008, Kouz batted .292 away, .226 at Home! That’s nuts.
Medschoolmatt…
I just read through the comments on here…
did you really mean 4 million on a decent player in Punto, or are you being sarcastic?
Please understand that if you are serious I will never ever allow any of my family or friends to be seen by a doctor with the first name matt.
People who need help should not be holding scalpels.
LasVegasDave,
please don’t get me starting on using a pitcher’s stat (BABIP) to describe hitting ability…
Have a look at the Twins’ hitters. Most of their BABIP’s are higher at home because of the turf bounces (See: Gomez Carlos). BABIP was invented to create a somewhat predictive factor about pitcher’s performance: “normal” BABIP = .300-.290 if a pitcher had a higher BABIP that meant he was “unlucky” (buy it or not) or he did not have a proper defense behind him (one could buy that depending on who was playing behind the pitcher).
Seriously, hitters BABIPs mean absolutely nothing. Zero. Zip. They mean about the same as hitters strikeouts on a Wednesday in a sunny outdoor park. If you don’t believe me, google it 
BC - according to BS and crew, Punto would be a ‘decent’ player by their definition. In my eyes, he’s an above average (sometimes amazing) fielder that is at best an 8 or 9 guy. My proposed moves put him 9th in the lineup (behind the additions of Burrell and Wiggy). And no, I do not believe he is ‘decent’ enough to warrant 4 mill.
Here is another thing about the Punto bit (and frankly I haven’t made up my mind about it, so I am not defending or rebutting it; I have to wait till the off-season is over) :
Alright, let’s say that Punto as a starting SS who put a 99 OPS+ last season is not worth $4M a year. If you were a GM (given that assumed fact) would you pick up a $10M option on an centerfielder 5 years older than Punto, who put an 110 OPS+ and was suspended because of PED usage? And if you were a rival GM, would you try to trade for him using what a lot of people would thought would be a better trade result (Melky Cabrera) for Johan Santana next year?
I am just asking you, because this is the financial situation today. And you cannot see the Punto signing out of its perspective…
(not that I’m saying that Mike Cameron is worth it, but he is part of the discussion)
Mike Cameron - older, more expensive; BUT he’s got way more power and is a SICK CF (only 1 error all last year ?!?!). I’d take a flier on him although Melky is a decent prospect (almost as good in the field, hits for more average, 10 years younger).
ok… I will buy that you are not Ed Guien or Dr. Kavorkian in training…
I would love to see them get Burrell, but they would have to trade away Cuddyer and Kubel/Young to make that make any sense at all.
I am not 100% sold on Wiggington’s health, and ability to play the field turf at the dome. don’t they have real grass at the former Enron park?
The Yankees are working on a trade for Mike Carrmon with the Brewers getting former “to die for prospect” Melky Cabrerra
Were you here last year to hear the raving about about Melky? It was disgusting to think of that guy being our CF!
That is one part of the Bill Smith failure where it could have been worse than the deal with the Mets
^ I am sure sad we didn’t get Lester. Even Ellsburay turned out ok. Let’s home Guerra improves, Humber fetches us a decent player in a trade (or surprises us in long relief or something), and Gomez gets better at the plate. Otherwise its looking more like boston would have been better. If it was Lester, we would have also gotten Coco (coolest name ever) and he would have produced well enough for us.
medschoolmatt,
that’s ancient history and no need revisiting it but I would be that there was no firm Boston order on the table (other that press leaks trying to make the Yankees raise their price) based on their MO their last few years…
Well you know, BC brought it up…:(
Just please sign Crede 3-4 yr deal for about $8-10 million a year. He is injury prone but he would only have to play on turf for one year and is one of the best defensive 3B in the game. He picks up some of the offensive slack of Punto’s and would probably make up the best defensive left side of the infield in the AL. Not to mention it would solidify the middle of the lineup with a Mauer/Morneau/Crede/Cuddyer/Kubel. That is a pretty solid 3-7, lets not forget that this guy is an all-star caliber player and we would be taking him from the White Sox who always try to steal our players in FA. I don’t like giving up Blackburn and or Young for Atkins. He won’t be worth it and his numbers are inflated by Coors Field. Kouzmanoff is possiblity, but he would not provide the firepower of Crede. DON’T trade from the best youn starting five in baseball. WE HAVE THE MONEY, now sign Crede.
Medschool…
I wanted Ellsbury, Lowrie, Masterson, and Kalich so badly that I almost was spitting fire when the Mets trade was announced.
I worked out harder that day than I have in years… I was so frustrated with Bill Smith at that point in time, and even more in Terry Ryan for not having the balls to keep his job during the roughest offseason since they let Harmon Killebrew go…
Just think we’d have had our 3rd base, CF, and setup man issues solved. With a pretty solid hitting prospect in AA yet. Man… wow…
Seeing something I wanted that badly hasn’t hurt that bad since I was 16 and I asked the most beautiful girl in the school out only to be turned down because she was a Jehovah’s Witness, and then laughed at by my friends for her being a Jehovah’s Witness.
It wasn’t quite ID’ing my best friend, but it was damn painful… Bill Smith is a moron beyond comprehension… just total failure at his job so far.
sorry to bring up the past.
It’s all the signing of Punto. I think I would have taken any other player in the Major Leagues over him.
There isn’t one player I can think of that I wouldn’t take over him. A few I like less than him because they don’t seem like good people, and Nick’s probably a pretty decent guy…
But watching him play is like fingers on a chalkboard for me.
well BC, judging by your myspace page things worked out ok for ya
I think we should give it time. Humber and Mulvey could be more ready than we think, and Guerra is getting used to a new throwing motion. Gomez has all the crazy tools, he just has to get plate discipline which can be learned. We’ll see how it turns out.
All the prospects/youngsters they offered were good last year, but none lit the world on fire as of yet. I’ll be patient and see what happens
First off none of those Red Sox offers were ever confirmed. Secondly that wasn’t the proposed offer, the deal including Kalich was Lester, Lowrie, Masterson, Kalich. The other two were Ellsbury, Lowrie, Masterson or Lester, Crisp, Lowrie.
Medschoolmatt…
Yeah, it’s pretty safe to use the old line that I out kicked my coverage pretty good. I wish I could take credit for how beatiful the kids turned out, but that’s all my wife… I just am happy to have been part of it.
Now if business would just pick up… damn economy! The Twins get a good middle of the lineup hitter… Then life would be fantastic
BC, you are clearly not a baseball fan. Yes, it is too much money for a guy who the term OPS doesn’t even apply to, but he is an excellent defensive player and great teammate. He plays the game the right way and is valued in the clubhouse. The Twins seem to place more value on continuity and character in their clubhouse and it has worked out pretty good for them this decade. No they shouldn’t have paid him a dime over about $2.5-3 mil a year, but would you rather pay Cabrera like $7 mil a year? Or perhaps trade an established pitcher like Blackburn for a prospect in Jason Donald. Starting pitching wins in baseball. In case you haven’t noticed the Yankees just spent $244 million dollars on TWO starting pitchers!
SIGN ADAM DUNN NOW….LOOK AT THE #S DONT ASK QUESTIONS JUST DO IT
DUNN DH’NG THEN YOU CAN PLAY ANY NERD U WANT AT 3B
Medschool…
I did just find out that two of the songs I wrote are going to be on iTunes in January so that’s going to be kind of cool. Had one song performed live on MTV Australia in 2007… that was insane, but I didn’t see much of anything out of that one either.
Either way… this is about baseball and damn it… the Twins need to do something about this lack of pop in the lineup because they won’t hit this well with runners in scoring position again. It’s almost impossible to believe it happened once. Power and speed cure all ills offensively… we have the speed. We don’t have enough pop… at least not unless Baby Jesus peformes a miracle and pulls a ball or two.
^Hands PS a Bud Light
*Chill brotha, Chill*
Dunn would be too expensive; sign Burrell if you are going for a big bat
Sign Burrell would be great…
But what do we do with 5 OF/Dh candidates good for 4 spots, and then adding in an 8-9 million dollar a year DH?
Can we get him back to Pat the Bat in college and get him over to 3rd base?
I am out of here guys.
I have the grand opening of a new facility in LeSueur tomorrow morning that I have to attend.
So I probably won’t be bothering anyone the rest of the weekend.
Be well, be safe, and bash some Punterrible for me!
BC - my 3 things to Twins Success this offseason (everyone seems to like them)
1) Trade Cuddy for what you can get; Ideally, wait until the season starts and see if he produces a bit, then you can get more value
2) Sign Pat the Bat, put him at DH and keep him there (not touching the OF unless an emergency happens - Punto can even play OF). He can be had for less than 10 mill. He makes sense - he’d make everyone else in the lineup better. Do it.
3) Trade Humber/Bonser, Buscher and 1 or 2 more prospects (a very fair trade for him) for Wiggy.
Lineup looks like this:
Span CF
Mauer C
Morneau 1B
Burrell DH
Wiggy 3B
Kubel RF (he’s actually not bad there)
Young LF (he’s getting in better shape)
Casilla 2B
Punto SS (where he belongs - 9th!)
Starting the lineup off with 3 lefties may seem dangerous, but they bat .283, .361 (mauer the freak), and .284 respectively. Span is the man, Mauer should be 2nd, Morneau’s increased average and RBI totals make him an ideal 3, and being backed up by Burrell only makes him better. Wiggy is a solid 5 on most teams, Kubel and Young are very good at 6/7 tandem, Casilla is a spark at 8, and Punto at 9 (hey, he’s our worst hitter that’s where he belongs).
the lefties bat those averages against lefties I meant to say
peace out BC
oh and where is gomez? well Cuddy is up with the team for the first 2 months, gomez is in AAA. Cuddy is traded, we bring up Gomez and see what happens.
had to say…
I like your love of Wiggington… it may be unhealthy… I know from my own feelings of wanting players here that will never come here. Try being a Barry Bonds fan once… that’s painful… lol.
But in your lineup…
I would bat Burrell between Mauer and Morneau… Burrell’s OB% makes him more likely to be on base for Morneau’s power than vice versa.
Just my opinion.
I like players that make sense for our team And I like putting Pat the bat in between them, but I do not want Pat as my 3rd batter (I’d need to put Casilla in at #2 and move everyone down a spot) and Morneau has just as high an on base percentage right? I’d rather it go - Span single/walk, Mauer single/walk, Morneau double to drive in Span, Pat deep HR to Left. Has a nice ring to it
Just my opinion :). Have a good weekend
Gentleman,
one has to think about the limitations of this team
i.e.
gardy is the man
(adjust lineups accordingly) please
Thry -
soooooo
Span LF
Casilla 2B
Mauer C
Cuddy RF (cringes)
Morneau 1B
Kubel DH
Buscher 3B
Punto SS (cringes even more)
GoGo CF
That?
Wiggy was non-tendered and is now a free agent. BS sign him!
Picking 3rd base candidates:
If Wigginton is non tendered first choice. otherwise, without trading would bring Crede in…
Sure Boras client yet he isn’t getting anything else..
Win Twins!
thrylos,
No, that wasn’t it either.
Brainfreeze, Uggla is a uggly defensive player. Not Twins type
Wiggy is now a free agent. See how smart Bill Smith is and people on here aren’t.
Here is a list of players who were non-tendered today, and therefore became free agents.
Daniel Cabrera
Denny Bautista
Ty Wigginton and Reggie Abercrombie
Jonny Gomes
Willy Taveras
Takashi Saito, Scott Proctor, Yhency Brazoban, Angel Berroa
Clay Hensley and Charlie Haeger
Chris Britton and Justin Christian
Tim Redding
C. Trent Rosecrans e-mails that the Reds will not tender contracts to Matt Belisle or Gary Majewski.
Chris Capuano
Kevin Cash
Chuck James
Chris Burke
Go get Wiggy! sign him to a 2 yr deal/ 8.5 mil! haha
but seriously, go get him, wont cost anything either besides some money!
He’s falling into our laps
Now sign him already
Sane - Wiggy is clearly the class of that list eh?
He’s absolutely the class of that list, I like Chuck James alot, too.
I’d sign either him or Crede. Same risk, really. My reservations about Wiggy remain, but now that he wouldn’t cost you anything….let roll the dice.
that should be let’s.
med,
He’s the best 3B on that list, without question.
Sign wiggy and tarveras, play 3rd and have gogo to AAA to learn how to hit better, and have tarveras play the 4th OF role…How about maybe look into Trevor Hoffman as a setup man for nathan if willing….
Did someone here earlier make the suggestion that we offer Cuddy, etc for Wiggy, or is that my imagination?
We don’t need Taveras, he’s the same player as Span/Gomez, but not as good at it.
Taveras had 68 SB, with 7 CS this year.
Add him to Gomez, Casilla, Span and Punto and we will run away with the dashes at the MLB track meet.
He’s a better hitter then gogo is at this point…We could use gogo later, when he learns how to hit bettter…
Taveras is a bigger base-stealing threat than any of the Twins.
that too…
Taveras hit .320 in 2007 and is a career MLB .283 hitter.
So in what way is Gomez better, now?
meaning let gogo go down and learn how to hit in AAA, let willy play up here, gogo has a lot of ceiling to reach, he could because a 5 tool player the twins could use down the road…let willy play up as a starter or a 4th OF
Breaking… ESPN.
Indians outbid Twins by $500k for Wigginton… Here we go again being cheap…
whered u see that on espn.com or tv
send a link on that john
Gomez 2008
.258, 79 runs, 59 RBI (153 games)
Taveras 2008
.251, 64 runs, 26 RBI (133 games)
yes send a link, because i’ve looked everywhere for one…
career wise how is gogo compared to tarveras and I believed he was rushed up by both the mets and the twins…
same here if bill smith screws this up he should be gone!!!!! how much easier does it get
John,
Where would you read how much the losing bid was?
And nobody else bid?
That seems like too fast a decision to be believable.
agreeed with sane to soon to find that out
agreed with sane and twins4life
Why would Wiggy accept an offer within one hour of being non-tendered, without giving all teams a chance to bid against each other?
Just doesn’t make sense to me.
what other pitchers are out there that the twins are looking at?
So how much would you guys pay Wigginton? He is just 31 years old. I wouldn’t mind signing him to a deal similar to what Blake got. I will be disappointed if we don’t make a serious run at him. He is a better choice than Blake, and younger too. And now that he is a free agent we don’t have to give anybody up for him.
agreed….
I say 2 yrs. 10 mil, 3rd yr option for 6-7 mil…
IMO Wigginton is worth Punto money at least.
I want to go get Wiggy, but is anyone else concerned about his injuries and the fact that he’s never really stuck with a team, even though he’s had very good split numbers?
I don’t know the answer, but something seems fishy about that.
I would be good with 2 yrs 10 mil.
Wiggington better be signed be the time i wake up
I say a team option for a 3rd, depending on who we have in the minors, I mean its been sometime since koskie made the hot corner his home…
Well I remember LENIII reporting that the Twins were interested in Wigginton, but that nothing was heating up. Perhaps they realized he would likely be non-tendered and so they were waiting for that so they wouldn’t have to give up a prospect or something. I hope they had this in their minds during the winter meetings and now they will make their move.
The Astros were expecting Wiggy to get close to 7 millon in arbritation. So I would expect him to receive a 3yr/24 million offer.
KB,
Wiggy has been beaten out at 3B by David Wright, Iwamura-Longoria and Morgan Ensberg(on roids) at a few of his later stops.
John, I wouldn’t mind that offer. We all know that the Twins aren’t as cashed strapped as they have been. Last year he had 23 HR to go along with .285/.350/.526
He has averaged 23 hr and batted .280 over the last three years. This is the right handed power bat they have been looking for and at a price they can afford.
how fast does daniel cabrera throw, I heard he lost a little bit on his fastball….
Sane,
I hear you, and I knew that was most of the circumstances. Maybe I just have a Mike Lamb hang-over, but I just can’t get it out of my head. I know that Wiggy is head and shoulders above Lamb and he should absolutely be our starting 3B now…but that’s what’s keeping my excitement tempered.
Bill Smith is the worst card player ever. Yesterday when he said he was satisfied with a Harris-Buscher platoon to start the season in 2009 it was almost like you knew something would happen. However, nobody could have anticpated this move by the Astros except for maybe the Twins. The Twins should be on the phone to Wiggy’s agent right now because this is a gift and if the moron Smith screws this up he should be given his pink slip and Terry Ryan come back. This is dumb luck for the Twins after passing on Blake.
Who will we be competing against for Wigginton? For other 3B like Blake it was mainly the Dodgers but they of course won’t pursue him now. The Indians are looking for a 3B. But I’m pretty sure we will have more money to throw at him than anybody else, but of course it is another matter if we actually do.
Sign Wigginton for two years with 3rd year option. Approach Astro’s about possible trade for Valverde. They are obviously attempting to drastically reduce payroll and you never know. By signing Punto and getting wigs as a free agent the twins have retained all players. Offer Harris, Humber , pridie and a couple prospects. Can’t hurt to offer. Just think, Valverde in the 8th and Nathan in the 9th. 3rd base problem and bullpen problem fixed. Bring on the season, no other moves required.
I say no to Wigginton,is he really that much better than current in house options? Beltre is the answer folks, any other options, trade or free agents are a waste of good money.
how about joe nelson signing with the twins for a setup role, he had a 2.00 era in 54 innings in 59 games for the marlins, he was wanting 800,000 the only draw back is his age being 34, but I guess thats young in baseball years…he was just non-tendered
how about aaron miles for 2b, I know we just signed punto back to start at ss, but how about a career .289 hitter, hit .317 and career fielding % .983 at 2B just throwing it out there, I mean who doesn’t need infielders right?????
Aaron Miles just got non-tendered from the cards…
medschoolmatt
Wiggy, did you think he would be a non tender?
he wasn’t even thought of being non-tendered….
Anyone who thinks Wigginton wouldn’t be an upgrade over what the Twins have in-house either hasn’t seen Wigginton or hasn’t really watched the Twins’ current options. He’s going to get Blake-like money from someone, whether it’s the Twins or not is another question altogether. Now that there’s no need to give up talent in a trade to get him and I don’t believe any of the “big market” teams are needing a 3B, I can’t see any reason why the Twins should be out-bid by anyone.
Steve H,
“Beltre is the answer folks, any other options, trade or free agents are a waste of good money.”
I would rather waste Carl’s good money than trade away players that we need to win. (ie, Young, Blackburn or Perkins)
Swannie says:
“I’m against Wigginton solely based on his ridiculous last name. And we already have enough Joes, so we don’t need Crede.”
Wow, best arguement I’ve heard since the one trying to justify giving Punto $8.5 Million.
John says:
December 12th, 2008 at 10:42 pm
Breaking… ESPN.
“Indians outbid Twins by $500k for Wigginton… Here we go again being cheap…”
John is forced to manufacture bad news that he creates himself in order to bitch about the Twins.
Apparently there isn’t enough ‘REAL’ bad news to keep posters as miserable as they would like to be.
Last year we signed the left side of the Astros infield after they discarded them. That didn’t work out too well. Now we want to grab another discarded Astro left-s-de of the infield?
Everett was snatched up hours after being non-tendered last year.
There are a number of decent players on the list above–Capuano, Saito, James.
The best thing about Wigginton is that he would be useful even if he doesn’t cut it as the Twins 3B. He is a RH hitter with power and plays several positions. He certainly could DH if the Twins need to play Kubel in the field or want a better glove at third (Harris?).
LEN, you didn’t deny jama’s suggestion that the Boras quote is yours, but did deny thrylos that the other two weren’t yours.
However, I’m guessing it’s just the CC quote about the deal being finalized.
Dicky
To be honest, I didn’t think they would do it. I would have thought they would have rather traded him to get some value for him, instead of letting him go for next to nothing (do they even get a draft pick?). Now it makes too much sense to get him. We need to make a run at him and all you people forget about Crede - his back is a much larger issue than the couple broken (and now healed) bones on Wiggy’s left hand. I’d rather have a lot more average and OBP than a couple less HR’s.
I think there is a good chance the Twins sign Wiggy… the question is do they offer him 3 years when they wouldnt with Blake. He is 4 years younger so it would make much more sense… but the Twins do not do 3 year deals often.
Remember, Gardy called him a “gamer” which apperently is the #1 criteria for signings…
Ryan
Dude that is right! It’s written on the wall then - Wiggy in Minnesota!
I am mostly worried the Angels will swoop in and sign him with the Twins are dragging their feet making sure they do not spend one dollar more than they have to..
If the Astros were going to non-tender him, we should have been able to get him in a trade this week for almost nothing…
Ryan
I am scared of that too, but the angels have their sights on bigger free agents. If they resign Tex, and get another big name, I don’t think they mind rolling with Figgins another year.
Wiggy would have tied Morenau for the team lead in HRs last season (in only 110 games) and led the team in SLG%.
He had a .350 OBP…
We need to make a run at this guy. I would much prefer signing him to dealing for Beltre or Atkins at this point. Especially if they can get a 2 year deal… a 3 year deal is less interesting to me.
I say they offer him the same deal they were going to give Blake - its reasonable and they were willing to spend it in the first place on a much older player with less pop.
matt- but they are looking at the deals Tex and Manny are getting… they might play it safe and add a sure thing.
I think we can outbid the Indians. They still think Marte has a chance to make it, so I dont think they want to spend too much or lock in someone for too long…
I would say offer 2 and 12 to start with. He made 4.3 last year, was due for a raise.. I dont think it would get it done, but it would let him know we are interested…
The Angels are so friggen unpredictable, that is why they scare me.
Ryan - they offered Tex an 8 year deal (not sure the amount, but they did offer it). I think he’d prefer the Angels over the Nationals if the amounts are similar
Maybe that makes it even more important for the Twins to act quickly…
They have been looking at Wiggy for two years, so they know what they are getting.
medschoolmatt
If the Twins sign Wiggington will they keep Harris?
Do you have any concern that the broken hand will affect 2009 power?
Do you go 3 years?
Harris makes too much sense to keep, unless they can get something in a trade for him. He’s a utility guy that can play at multiple positions (yes he’s average at 2B, slightly above average at SS, can even fill in at 1B if they need it) but he’s a solid 3B and makes a good back up and he has a solid bat and makes for a nice pinch hitter.
Buscher isn’t out of options from what I can tell (someone correct me if I am wrong), so they can send him down to see if they can get him to fix his glove and AB’s against lefties.
As for his hand - it’s been healed since last May. In fact, he hit 12 home runs in August (yes, TWELVE HR’s in a month), AFTER his injury healed. He was interviewed and he said neither his hand or his pulled hammy he had are an issue.
As for the deal - I think the deal to Blake would be more than adequate to start things off (2 years, 14 mill, option for the 3rd). if he wants a third, I’d give him 3 years, 20 mill with some incentives for AB’s/HR’s.
Let’s hope they do it.
An aside - the Reds seem to be the only team making an effort for Burrell, which I find absurd. His bat is great and is a decent fill-in for LF/1B. I saw the report of Ibanez being signed (instead of Burrell…boggles my mind especially in a lineup full of lefties and also the guy is 4-5 years older). the guy doing the report mentioned Burrell would get nowhere near what Ibanez got. So what about 2 years 18
mill plus incentives for Burrell and Trade Cuddy? I think it can get done
You guys sound like Pohlad. Let’s low ball him with a two year offer, insult him and send him to another team. All news accounts that I have seen say he will get 7 mil in arbritation. If we want him it will have to be a 3 year offer of ~25 million to be market competitive. Remember, it’s not your money that’s being spent.
Couple more things:
Harris is under club control for at least another year, making him cheap as well. If anything, he can start occasionally against lefties in place of Casilla (who could come in later in the game for defense and a spark against righties), putting him at 2B (where he did an OK job). Also, he could start at 3B and Wiggy could be moved to DH once in awhile or giving him the day off to keep him healthy
Speaking of Ty’s health - he just seems to have real bad luck with pitchers. Last year, he had a great year offensively, hitting his 1st grand slam, hit in 12 straight tames for the 1st time ever, and hit those 12 dingers in August (duuuude). His hand injury came when he slid into 3B and a pitcher stepped on his hand with his cleat spike (OUCH). he came back within a month after it broke his thumb (not bad). He also was out after getting drilled in the ribs (cracking a couple) by an inside pitch, but came back in a couple days. Also he missed about a week in September after pulling his groin, but that can happen to anybody (at least he doesn’t miss months like Gaborik…)
So at any rate, sign him up. He makes way too much sense, even BS should see that.
John - fair enough. But offering him a 2 year deal at 7 mill per when he was (maybe) going to get that in Arb on only a 1 year deal is a good start. Obviously, when more interested teams show up (I think its mainly the Indians at this point) we’ll see what his market is. He’s young, so I can see them offering a 3 year deal in the range you mentioned, but let’s see what his market is first before we throw him a highball offer like that (ie Punto…)
John, I think you’re close on the 3/25, but I really don’t think it will take quite that much to get Wigginton. Yes, he was going to get 7mm-ish in arbitration, but that would have been a one-year deal.
I don’t think offering the deal Blake turned down would be “lowballing”. It was more than the Indians were willing to pay for Blake and unless I’m forgetting someone, the Indians and Twins are the only teams left who are looking for a 3B and are willing to spend a moderate amount to get one.
The Tribe isn’t exactly in “jack up the payroll” mode so the Twins should be able to get this done. It may end up taking a bit more than Blake was offered (because Wig is younger), but not a lot. I’ll say 2 years, $16-17mm, with a club option in the 3rd year at $10mm ($2mm buyout). Would mean a guaranteed $18-19mm for Wigginton. I don’t think Cleveland will go that high and Wigginton would jump at it.
Crickett - Lovin’ it. let’s hope it gets done
You guys still sound like you are sending your own money.
Think of it like this:
Carl overpaying for Punto and Wiggy is a much-needed spending stimulus for US economy.
I like Wigginton and I’m surprised the ‘Stros couldn’t find a trade partner in the last week before he was non-tendered. He’s very similar to Blake except much younger - seems like a perfect fit. I just hope the Twins aren’t so in love with Buscher that they pass up this opportunity.
He’s a Twins type of player, too. Reading some other blogs, the Astros & Mets fans love him bringing the lunch pail mentality every day he plays.
Final thought from me before I go try to be productive for a while…
I’m probably as much of a Front Office lackey as any commenter on this blog. I didn’t get PO’s when they wouldn’t give Blake 3 years. I don’t see anything wrong with Punto’s deal (though I’d sure love to find out there’s a built in $100K fine for every head first slide), and I’ve given BS the benefit of the doubt most of the past year.
But I honestly can’t see any reason not to make dang sure the Twins don’t get outbid on Wigginton. If he’s not the Twins 3B in the next few days, it had better be because they traded for someone better instead or Wig simply did not want to play for the Twins for some reason. Anything short of that would be a flat out breach of faith between the Twins and their fanbase.
I hope the cash the Indians spent on Wood affects their ability to bid on Wiggy.
Watch for Sabean with SFG. I notice Wiggy plyed some left. Is he any good out there?
I think I would fire the Houston GM, why could he not get something in trade?
Ben
main reason they like him is he can hit at a .300 clip even in RISP. his glove is piss poor though and his average against lefties is even worse. Its why Harris had a job last year (it paid off for him). I am sure they would prefer a guy that can hit lefties (Wiggy), has a better glove (Wiggy), and has power (oh look - wiggy!)
What about going back to Seattle, San Diego, and Colorado and giving them all last chance low ball offers for their 3rd basemen? After, of course, the Twins have contacted Wiggy’s agent to find out what they are looking for?
Blake signed for 3 and 18…
I cant imagine that Wiggy will get much more than that after being non-tendered.
Dicky - he’s not terrible. Has had 2 errors there in 37 games in his career. played 30 games there last year, had no errors and had a .865 ZR (but a very small range factor, so he’d need a speedy CF to back him up).
Actualy, I like him as a 2B choice once in awhile - it was the sticking point in a trade the Astros lost out on earlier this week - the other team didn’t feel he could play there. I beg to differ - he played there in 2007 and for his career his numbers have been very consistent - .984 FP, just under 5 range factor and .780 ZR. not too shabby.
To bad either Harris, Buscher or Wiggington cannot play a little first
Buscher’s a good hitter but he looks like a manatee at 3rd base.
so we wont pay 6 mil a year for casey blake but we give punto 4 per? ridiculous
Dicky - Wiggy has played over 600 innings as a 1B in his career, has made only 2 errors, has a 9 RF and a ~ .85 ZR. I think he can play there.
I prefer Wiggington over any other 3rd baseman account we do not have to give up talent. Sign him now.
Wish list:
of all the free agents now:
sign Wiggington, Joe Nelson RP
or bring Crede in!!
Win Twins!
medschoolmart
Can rest Morneau, sign him now.
Our FO better be having an orgasm.
If we had signed Blake to a 3-year deal (ending in him going to the DL for an Alzheimer’s attack), we would not have this shot at Wiggy.
Kudos to the FO…..IF they sign Wiggy!
sane
Great Point. Twins patience does tend to work in their favor.
Can you imagine doing the lunch order?
Sign me right now for crying out loud. I am a right-handed bat with some pop and can play multiple positions. SIGN ME NOW.
*Lunch Order of FO*
Hey guys, what should we get for lunch?
Well, I think Chinese Sounds good
But we had chinese last time. What about Gyros?
Chinese is reliable though and isn’t all that expensive, and has a lot of Grit’.
Eww, Grit in chinese food? no thanks. Gyros are a bit pricey, but the upgrade is top notch over chinese
Yeah, but the service is terrible and they don’t deliver.
*15 minutes later*
well which is it then, Chinese or Gyros…
Hey guys, my mom just brought in Meat Loaf, Tater tot hot dish and chocalate cake for my Bday. Who wants some?
*ChaChing!* - Patience pays off.
Does anyone else wonder if Pitching Doctor Anderson could work on and make Daniel Cabrera(non-tendered yesterday) a more consistent pitcher?
Seems like it would be worth it to see if you can pick him up and consider moving his electric stuff to the bullpen. Or as a starter if you have to part with one of your pitchers.
He reminds me a little of the early versions of LaTroy Hawkins and I just wonder if the soothing, dulcet tones of Andy could save this poor soul.
Willie
he seems rather interesting, but I’d rather not take a flier on him and spend money we could throw at Wiggy and another FA to get them to come here. I’d rather him work with Jones to try and get him to stay on the roster or make a good run in AAA if we trade a prospect to keep him (the kid’s got potential). Cabrera throws heat but has lots of control problems. We’ve got Bonser to fill that role…
2 inch thick Porter House steaks seasoned with cracked black pepper and sea salt sizzling on the grill. Baked spuds with butter, sour creme, chives… Corn on the cob drenched in butter charing next to the steaks… Homemade ice creme with fresh strawberrys and real whip creme… All will be done in two minutes… Can you smell the greatness? LOL
Where do we stand with joe Crede? I know he has a problem staying healthy with a lingering back problem, only playing 144 games in the last two years, but is he on the Twins radar?
LEN III - Any news on the Twins interest in Wigginton now that he is a FA?
Lavelle, thank you for the answer. I would say that if the Twins are looking at Derosa, or are willing to give Buscher another year at third, then they must think that Punto can play enough defense for both spots anyway. Again, thanks for the answer.
LaVelle, to second what JonBelle, I see that Wigginton was not tendered a contract; has the Twins brass discussed the option of signing him?
sign wigginton ASAP!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I think they need to sign Wigginton unless some team like the Angels or Indians jumps in and vastly overpays him.
The Twins can afford him…with that said, is there any reason to offer him a deal more than 5-6 mil a year?
It will take quite a bit more than 5 mil a year. If Blake gets 8 Wigginton should get at least that because he is comparible or better in each phase of the game and is 5 years younger.
Man, that was an awesome lunch… Nothing better than steak!!!
MMMMMMM steak
Skips
Blake got less than 6 mill per year on average (it was 17.5 over 3 years) - i believe its 5, 6, 6.5 mill per season - much less than your 8 mill. the twins offered him the highest per season at 7 mill, but didnt want to spend a third year on an aging player especially in 2 years when its possible Valencia, hughes or someone else will be ready to take over.
Wiggy makes too much sense though - 7 mill is more than reasonable for him, and besides the Indians and maybe the Reds or Angels we have a legit shot at him.
so they missed on blake, now they have a chance at wigginton…we have been reading how they like him, since last year, i cant believe they havent signed him yet….the minute he was non-tendered billy s should have been on a plane to his doorstep offering him whatever it takes to get him into a twins uniform right now before some other division rival like cleveland gets their wallet out-every once in awile the word urgency comes into play..i believe as a twins fan, that time is now..as the decision has been made that mr punto is the ss, it is more than URGENT that we get that big bat to play 3rd base….get that done and then find some help for the bullpen and we may be ready for spring training…. i was sad to see farnsworth off the board and especially disappointed to see where he landed …ouch…..sign wigginton today, no questions asked!!!!!!
Ummmm….Should somebody on this board call the Twins FO Hotline and inform about the Wigginton situation?? Maybe they don’t know about it or something. Because the fact that he has yet to be signed by this team is borderline disturbing to me.
Why do I have the bad feeling the Indians will sign him and he will proceed to hit about 5 bombs against the Twins this season?
Bill Smith is the George W. Bush of baseball GMs. The guy has absolutely no frigging clue of reality. Is he still out in Vegas working on his tan? He has made 5 horrible acquisitions and 2 bad trades. No wonder the imbecile is afraid to pull the trigger. I agree with the poster who said if the Twins don’t sign Wigginton Smith should be fired. Wiggington has fallen in to our laps and only Sleepy Bill Smith is a meathead enough to bollocks it up.
I don’t think it is bad that the Twins haven’t signed him yet. That isn’t the disturbing part. The part that kinda disturbing is that we haven’t even heard if the Twins are interested in him, if they are even aware that he is a FA. I would be fine if they would at least say that they are interested, and they have contacted his agent and they are in negotiations. Is the Twins front office taking the weekend totally off?
Good call JonBelle. Something tells me the entire FO took the weekend off after a busy and tiring week in Vegas of not making any moves besides resigning Punto.
From what LaVelle has posted before, the Twins had mentioned him as va potential target with Gardenhire calling him a “gamer.” So knowing that, it is downright peculiar there is absolutely no buzz about the Twins contacting him and forming an offer.
I’m pretty sure teams try to avoid making it too public who they’re interested in.
Especially when a rival team in the division is also looking for help at 3B.
It’s the same reasoning behind a trade. If a team is working on a trade for somebody, they’re not going to openly annouce it until its either done or it falls through.
Otherwise some other team catches wind that a player is available and sticks their nose in.
just looked up wiggy on mlb.com and watched some highlites….this guy should be a twin period…no doubt about it….in fact i am beginning to think that signing him would be a better move than had we signed blake…i liked alot of what i saw and read about wiggy and am more than ever convinced he is the answer to our power outage…not only that but he seems so versatile which will fit right in here, at 3b, 2b, 1b or lf …..plug him in at 3rd base and a bench of redmond, buscher, cuddy or young, harris, and tolbert and we are pretty well set to get this season on…….i am not forgetting that they need to fill that bp staff also…..i too am in that crowd that says smith should be fired if he doesnt get wiggy in the fold….
what will wiggys fan club be titled???
If you people haven’t figured out that the Twins FO does not run to the media with information about what they’re doing behind the scenes, you really need to pay better attention. It’s hilarious that you think that just because there’s no “buzz” in blogdom, the Twins FO must not even be aware of Wig’s availability. Talk about not having a clue!
Yeah, you’re right. Billy Boy doesn’t seem to have a clue. That’s what makes me worried about this.
I have some questions about Wiggington.
Since 2005, he has played in 57, 122, 148, and 111 games. Why?
He only had 385 AB last year and had several lenghty stretches where he did not play. Why?
His last month of the season was statistically horrible…Ok maybe he had a bad month.
How come he has been shuttled between 4 teams in 5 years?
Why did Houston non tender a guy who hit 23 HR with a 2008 stat line of .285/.350/.526 with a .876 OPS?
Would’nt that type of year be worth keeping him for a few more million dollars.
How come I think of Lamb when I think of Wiggington.
As for what I have read, his range is below average, even though it looks like he did well stats wise at 3B last year.
I am not saying I dislike Wiggington, but I have questions?
What Wiggy was able to get this year in arbitration and what he might be able to get as a free agent is two completely different things. Arbitration dollars are a moot point - he’s a free agent now and will command much more that the 6 million he would have probably gotten in arbitration.
The guy can also play other positions than 3rd, so I think there could be more interest than just the Indians. He’s also three or four years younger than Blake.
I think the Twins should go for it without hesitation. I would do three years without a doubt, maybe even add an option year as well. Whatever happens, I’m sure the Twins will be in the thick of things over the upcoming week.
My only reservation is that it seems almost too good to be true.
jku: I think you just grossly missed the point.
Columbo: Those are interesting questions. Did Houston perhaps have a 3B prospect that they’re high on that Wiggy’s now in the way of?
Nope…I got the point loud and clear. I don’t have a clue.
As far as the current situation with Houston, from what I can tell, they are simply slashing payroll and likely wish they can get rid of Tejada and his contract somehow.
Buesher should not be in the mix after we decided to resign Punto and not go after a power bat at short.We should sign Wiggington now and not close the door completely on trading for Beltre.The way the roster is currently made up(for better or worse),a right-handed,decent fielding,power hitting bat at third is now necessary!
According to Trade Rumors, the Reds like Wiggy as a potential left fielder. The story is still new, there will probably be other suitors. The Twins should move quickly on this one.
jkucenic and T, after reading further (on Houstons MLB site),your right it’s a salary dump.
Also, the site says Wiggington has had thumb and groin issues last year.
They also tried to trade him at the winter meetings. It also said if their is an opportunity for Houston to adjust their payroll later, they may try to sign him later in the offseason.
So, he has past injury issues and is a less than average fielder (IMO), but has the power we could use. Is he worth the risk over going after someone, such as, say Beltre who has consistently played through the grind of a long season (even if we have to give up something to get that type of player)?
Wigginton missed time last season with a broken thumb. In my book, that already makes him at least an honorary Twin. Might as well make it official.
Last year were fluke injuries - gets his thumb stepped on by a pitcher when hustling/diving for 3B, gets drilled in the ribs by a horribly inside pitch, and pulls his groin in september after rattling off 12 dingers in August. All in all he missed about 5 weeks due to injuries, and some other games he missed cuz the manager ‘wanted to get some time in for the veterans’. Also note he was moved around a lot in the field, and having a more stable position might help him out offensively
I think I’ll take a flier on him
“The part that kinda disturbing is that we haven’t even heard if the Twins are interested in him, if they are even aware that he is a FA. I would be fine if they would at least say that they are interested, and they have contacted his agent and they are in negotiations. Is the Twins front office taking the weekend totally off?”
Have you heard that any other team is interested?
Do you think all the other teams are “taking the weekend off’?
Relax!
No publicity is good publicity.
The Reds have been very public with their ‘interests’ but have done jack about it. Actions speak louder than rumors.
The Twins will get it done. Have faith in your favorite team.
Until the Twins sign Wiggy, my favorite team hasn’t been selected yet.
KIDDING!
Some interesting reliever names were non-tendered, make it happen Bill. Also, I like bringing in Daniel Cabrera to see if Anderson can make it work.
Someone tell me why Cabrera is worth bringing in over the guys we already have?
Like he made it work with Sidney Ponson, Livan Hernandez, Ramon Ortiz, Kyle Lohse and JC Romero?
Sid
To be fair, Ponson, Hernandez, Ortiz were all washed up (last season by Ponson was a fluke); Romero and Lohse were headcases and didn’t want to be here. Romero gave us our starting second baseman didn’t he?
Cabrera is 6′7″ 250# and once struck out 157 in 161 innings, when he had electric stuff.
There is aways hope for guys like that, until there is no hope.
My boy Wiggy, free to sign with the Twins! I’ve been pimping him all week, and hopefully Wild Bill Smith will make a strong move to sign him!
Ok - how much do you offer him then to possibly take up a spot of another guy on the team?
IMO Anderson is a good pitching coach in a pitching-emphasizing organization.
He is not a magician.
Vavra does more with less.
Sane
He did make a lot of pitchers better than what they are though (many of which had left us and done poorly ie Silva).
Vavra I agree with. I think he had a huge influence on Span (and of course his Lasik) - his eye is second only to Mauer’s on this team. I think he helped guys like Casilla and others as well
By pitching emphasizing, I am speaking of the Twins long-standing policy of drafting pitchers earlier than hitters until 2006.
I don’t disagree with that policy - I am merely pointing it out.
Terry Ryan and Jim Rantz are ex-pitchers, so its not surprising.
Bring in Chris Britton now.
Wiggy would be great. Here is a slight problem: after the Punto singing and the Jones draft, the 40-man roster is full. An option could be to put Neshek to the 60-day DL, but I am not sure whether they can do it during the off-season. Someone has to go if Wiggy is added and the one person that might make sense is Gabino.
Also, if they sign Wiggy, look for Buscher in Rochester next season (he just does not have the versatility to be a bench player other than a PH).
Btw, it seams that the Reds are in play for Wigginton as well, but I suspect that he might want to sign with a contender.
Good call about Chris Britton. He’s young, could come cheap and never really got a fair chance in New York. But from what I can tell, he’s got promise.
Also, the Twins should take a look at Joe Nelson, as a possible set-up kinda guy option who was non-tendered by the Marlins. The only reason he was let go was due to how cheap that organization is. He’s kinda old (34 I think) but his stats last year were damn good and they had him fill in for save spots once in while when Gregg went down, which means he could be a later inning option.
Last year he had a 2.00 ERA and struck out 60 in 54 innings. He would cost more than Britton, but may be more stable.
thrylos98,
Finding disposable items on a 40-man-roster is never difficult.
If Wiggy gets signed, Matt Macri is below ground on the Twins totem pole.
He will never be a MLB middle infielder for the Twins, but maybe someone could use him as a RH-hitting 3B.
The least of our problems is finding a spot on the 40 man roster for Wiggy or Cabrera. The Twins talent does not run that deeply. I’m sure that if nothing else there is a two for one minor trade available if needed…… Does Punto have a no trade clause? Just thinking outside the box here.
Great ideas about bring in Cabrera,Nelson and other relief possibilities.The FO should be in contact with Anderson to see which of guys he thinks he can work with.
Yeah Ty Wigginton is the answer. Most of you are morons.
Zach,
I know I am but what are you?
Zach,
good insight. Well thought out and logical point. Good contribution.
Am I the only one who has been looking all day for an update on Wigginton?
It appears that the front office and the Star Tribune Twins beat writers are taking a much deserved break from the winter meetings.
I guess I should just relax. Wigginton won’t sign with anyone within the next few days, unless he is presented with an offer he can’t refuse.
Just some isoP numbers from last season:
Ludwick: .292
Quentin: .283
Arod: .271
Manny: .269
Longoria: .259
Dye: .249
Miguel Cabrera: .245
Wiggy: .241
Hamilton: .226
Holliday: .217
Glaus: .213
Casey Blake: .209
Kubel/Morneau (highest Twins): .199
Vernon Wells: .196
Belte: .191
Atkins .166
Harris (highest Twins RHB): .149
methinks that Wiggy is in good company
Good comparisons thrylos98. I really can’t think of a good reason not to sign Wiggy. Gleeman said on the radio he isn’t too excited about him and Seth says the same thing, although I don’t know why.
I really wouldn’t mind signing him to a 4 year deal. Will Valencia or Hughes be as good as Wigginton??
sorry but whats isoP?
Will Valencia or Hughes be as good as Wigginton?
who knows?
Wiggy isoP @ age 24: NL: .224/ AAA: .231
Valencia isoP @ age 23: AA: .196/A+: .182
Hughes isoP @ age 23: AAA: .170/AA: .232
Valencia is a better fielder than Wiggy, but Hughes @ 3B is worse than Buscher…
Isolated Power
isoP = isolated power = SLG-batting average. Basically it removes singles from Slugging percentage and is the best measure of power for hitters
oooo isolated power 
sounds like the title of a good movie
Looks to me like Ty Wigginton has no big gaping holes in his offensive game, it looks solid all-around.
Keep in mind most his numbers come with fewer than normal at-bats due to injuries. I’d like to see his numbers over 162 games in 2009.
Seems like injuries is his biggest problem followed by his defense, although I don’t have anything to prove that his defense is bad, it is just what I have heard.
from what I can tell, its not bad just not above average. we’ll take it
Compare his defense to Buscher; that makes him a gold-glover…
I imagine if we sign Wigginton our 14 position players would be the following:
(If the Twins choose an 11-man pitching staff)
Mauer
Redmond
Morneau
Casilla
Punto
Tolbert
Wigginton
Buscher
Harris
Young
Gomez
Span
Cuddyer
Kubel
How would you guys envision our batting order with Wigginton?
he’d be 4th or 5th. buscher would go to AAA if he’s signed. we need that 12th pitcher until the staff proves it can last past the 6th inning on a regular basis
Electric Cascade,
Batting order:
Span
Casilla
Mauer
Morneau
Wiggington
Kubel/Young
Cuddyer
Punto
Gomez
thats MY lineup suggestion. Gardy would do this:
Span
Casilla
Mauer
Cuddy (cuz it worked so well before >_<)
Morneau
Wiggy
Kubel/Young platoon at DH
Punto
GoGo
I would sure as heck not do this, but I foresee him doing it. he may switch Cuddy and Wiggy if he comes to his senses or keep morneau at the 4 and have cuddy behind him.
One version:
(Offense lineup, no Gomez)
CF Span
SS Casilla
C Mauer
1B Morneau
3B Wigginton
DH Kubel
LF Young
RF Cuddyer
SS Punto
I’d be fine with that lineup. Even if Gomez and Punto are 8-9 we will have a good 7th hitter whether it be Wigginton, Kubel, Young, Cuddyer or whoever.
I highly doubt Cuddy is in the lineup below Young (with Gardy managing) and I also highly doubt Young would get the start over Gomez (just cuz he hates Young)…can you tell I am bitter? I like that lineup though if they don’t make any more moves (coughSIGNBURRELLcough)
Here’s a question for everyone:
What if Span is hurt for a short period or needs a day off (knock on wood)? He is a godsend to this lineup, being able to just automatically plug him into the leadoff role, but what do we do when he’s not an option? GoGo obviously can’t be there (yet). Do we role with Casilla there? He seems like the only other viable option. Thoughs?
I’d love to have Burrell in that lineup as
well. They would be forced to deal one or maybe two of their outfielders. If they sign Wiggy I don’t know what position they’d be targeting by dangling Young or Cuddyer.
It is fun to wish the Twins would sign people like Burrell and fill out lineup cards with real hitters surrounding Mauer and Morneau but I always just end up getting disappointed.
medschoolmatt,
I know you like Burrell. He defintely can hit the cover off the ball, but the problem is he made 13.25 million last year. I don’t know how much he is looking for, but I am sure it’s for more than that. I would be surprised if the Twins backed up the truck for him.
I would imagine Casilla would end up as the leadoff guy if Span went down. Although if Gomez develops extremely fast then he could be placed back at the top. If Casilla went to bat #1 I would put Mauer at #2 or even Kubel although we all know Gardy would put his beloved son Nick Gardenhire Punto batting #2 (if not leadoff).
Correction: Burrell made 14.25 million last year.
EC
Yeah I have been pushing for him for awhile now. Wiggy was my other target and oh look there he is as a FA :).
My 3 things were 1) Trade Cuddy for what we could get (play A would be to do it now, and get what we could for him, or play B would be to have GoGo at AAA to start the season to refine his bat while Cuddy hopefully builds some value, then trade him in June and bring up Gomez); 2) Get Wiggy (plays a decent 3B, solid backup at 1B for Morneau, a decent LF); 3) Get Burrell (DH, emergency OF)
Burrell is ~8-9 mill, Wiggy will be ~7 mill, we trade Cuddy thats 6 mill off the books, thus a net gain in payroll of only 9-10 mill. That would put us at about 72 mill, which is right where we were 2 years ago.
Doable moves, within our budget.
Colombo
his contract was crazy high for his value. He is not only 5-6 mill less in value to Tex and thats a fact. In addition, when Ibanez was signed instead of him (wowzers…), reporters mentioned the 3 year, 30 mill deal Ibanez got (wow, he’s gonna be 37 next year…) is nowhere near what Burrell will get (implying he’ll most likely get less on the market). His main suitor so far are the Reds (oh no, scary), and they have basically come out and said they are willing to spend 10 mill at most.
I think he is well within reach. The team owes us a good power bat for reasonable - and I think Burrell is that guy.
Burrell might be a little more expensive than that but it is okay because really the Twins should be able to add more money to their payroll due to the new stadium.
Burrell is ~8-9 mill
Furcal is asking 12-13 for 4
Ibanez in his youthfulness singed 10 for 3
Burell will probably take at least 12.5
medschoolmatt,
I did not know that his market value has declined. If we could get him for 8-9 million that would be great. Now if we can get BS and Gardy to trade Cuddyer…that’s a problem.
(just cuz he hates Young)…can you tell I am bitter?
I still find it laughable how everybody’s suddenly hopping on this “Gardy hates Young” bandwagon. Gardy stuck with Young even after his struggles early in that KC series. Benching him for only a few days before going back to him to help him keep his confidence.
Here’s the quote everybody’s misreading:
“Those three guys need to play every day. Delmon is in the mix. He’s a hell of a player, a hell of a talent. But to me, those three guys should be your outfield and then you go from there.”
Now, I’m no mind reader…but it doesn’t take one to come to the conclusion that 90% of the Strib commenters agree with this sentiment.
I mean, wasn’t Young’s terrible fielding a major sticking point for people all season long?
Gardy said what everybody here agrees with. Gomez/Span/Cuddyer is the best OF you can put out there. Defensively those are the Twins best options.
Suddenly everybody thinks Young would be a better OF than Cuddyer?
Columbo: Trading Cuddyer wouldn’t be a problem as much as it would be finding somebody to take Cuddyer.
Remember: Two sides to every trade.
We’ll see; I feel he’ll fall somewhere in between our estimates Thry. What if we give him an incentive-laden contract with a base of 8-9 mill?
Signing Wigginton would be great but it would make me not like the Punto signing even more. Because we wouldn’t give anybody up to sign Wigginton we still would have all our bargaining chips to go get a great SS.
Still, get Wigginton and get a good 7th or 8th inning reliever and I would say it was a successful offseason. The Twins didn’t need to do much. Most the players should improve on last year, and we were just one game from the playoffs.
White Sox have gotten worse and Indians/Tigers haven’t made improvements, the division is ours for the taking.
T,
Your right that would be a problem.
BTW, to anyone here. How much $ do the Twins have to spend. I think I heard the Budget could be as high as about $71 million. Then how much are they currently under the hook, so far, for the current year?
T
rant\
Like he had better options to go with besides Young? Gomez wasn’t exactly lighting it up. and Gardy wasn’t about to play his best DH option (Kubel) in the OF. Maybe I am overreacting, but i just get this feeling that Young can do no right, while Cuddy can do no wrong.
And another thing - that proposed lineup has Cuddy in RF am I right? He’s not replacing Young in left? Because if that were the case, I GUARANTEE Cuddy is worse in LF than Young is. Young never got to play in a position where he’s actually had experience last year (and thats RF and CF). He got stuck in LF (for the 1st time in his career) even when Cuddy went down and Span emerged. Wouldn’t you put your best defensive option at each position in play? No he kept doing this boneheaded thing with putting Span in right and Young in left. Span can play any position amazingly, and NOW all of a sudden Span is going to be in LF with Cuddy being in RF.
Not to mention Young’s numbers are the same if not better than Cuddy in RF.
/endrant
I also agree that there are two sides to every trade. Many teams could find value in Cuddy - solid bat, solid arm in RF. Trading a mid-level prospect or 2 would be more than adequate for both sides. But thats just me.
“and Indians/Tigers haven’t made improvements, the division is ours for the taking”
The Indians closer is Kerry Wood instead of Borowski.
They have several players back from injuries including Travis Hafner
They made more improvements than the Twins.
The Indians scare me. If they stay healthy, I could see them winning the division.
Sane,
I agree, the Indians are the threat next year. They were coming on at the end of last year. They improved their BP with the Kerry Wood signing.
medschool: Strictly defensively…what is the best OF?
If you say anything bust Gomez/Span/Cuddyer than you weren’t paying attention to Young last year.
Also, signing Wiggy wouldn’t mean the Twins still can’t go get a SS through trade. Punto is currently the starter…but at the same time, Punto can play either SS or 2B (which wouldn’t make sense unless they feel that Casilla may be a bargaining chip)
I checked out a few Astros blogs just to see what the general consensus on Wiggy is. Lot’s of shock and dismay. I didn’t see any post that was glad to see the guy go.
Even if we don’t read anything about it in the press, I’m sure Smith will be all over this one. I hope they don’t decide to starting haggling. Get in there and lock the guy up.
T
(sigh - yes I agree Young looked horrible in LF, but cut the guy some slack - he’s never played there at the major league level before; in RF, he’s a stud)
Young RF (2007)
.985 FP, 2.13 RF, .872 ZR 16 Assists
Cuddyer RF (2007)
.986 FP, 2.02 RF, .818 ZR 19 Assists
Yeah, Cuddy is FAR AND AWAY a better defensive player than Young…
Punto could be traded. It would be “ungrateful” to do it, what with him signing a “hometown discount”, but if the Brewers insisted on Punto as a vital part of the package for JJ Hardy it could happen. Oh yeah, & I could win the lottery also. It “could” happen.
Strictly defensively…what is the best OF?
Span LF, Gomez CF, Young RF.
I’d love to see Cuddaver try to play left in the dome (maybe in a blowout.) Young is a right fielder playing in the wrong position last year. He is a better right fielder than Cuddyer.
Check their scores in 2007 in plus-minus, when they both played RF:
http://www.billjamesonline.net/fieldingbible/charts/leaders2-07.gif
^what he said
Last time I rant about Punto:
what pisses me off is not that we brought him back, its that we are paying him >4 mill and guaranteeing him the starting job (guys like Tolbert and Harris won’t get a real chance to overtake him next year in Spring Training). Yes, other teams had interest in him, but I bet he wasn’t getting offers in the 4 mill range (I still believe that deal with the Phils at 2 years, 8 mill was bogus).
Colombo - thanks to the blockbuster signing of Punto we are above 60 mill now (since some players had raises coming). I’d estimate 62. so we may have 9 mill to spend.
Offer the same contract to Wiggy that was offered to Blake & see what happens. If we upgrade at 3B, we can survive Punto at SS. Then when he breaks his wrist sliding headfirst into 1st on a 2 hopper to 2nd, we can plug Tolbert in & improve the offense.
Being a realist here, I think the best we can hope for is that the Twins sign or obtain a new third baseman and go get some BP help.
Gardy has basically said he wants Cuddyer in the OF (I’m assuming RF), and he said Punto is my starting SS.
I think they will stick with Casilla at 2nd and they won’t move Kubel, their only other legit power hitter.
That leaves 3B as their last move, if any, of the position players, IMO.
meds,
I know I am repeating myself, BUT:
If Punto had not been re-signed, Harris would still not be the starting Twins shortstop while Gardy is the manager. He is not an adequate defensive MLB shortstop - not 2007 in Tampa Bay and not 2008 in Minnesota.
There would be somebody else from somewhere else replacing Punto at Twins starting shortstop.
After Harris had his shot at SS last year, Punto came back from injury, and Harris became a 3B only from then on, and he never returned to SS.
That was Gardy’s choice then and IMO its Gardy’s choice forever.
medschoolmatt,
That does not give us much room to manuever. I just don’t see them even thinking about moving Cuddyer to free up $, the Twins like him.
Yikes, I thought we had around 15 million to spend.
Signing Punto for $4 million squeezes the Twins?
What MLB-level FA SS could the Twins have signed for less than that?
Rafael Furcal?
Probably over $11 million. (4 yrs - $44 million)
Pick one from column A below:
Angel Berroa (31)
Willie Bloomquist (31)
Orlando Cabrera (34)
Alex Cintron (30)
Alex Cora (33)
Craig Counsell (38)
David Eckstein (34)
Nomar Garciaparra (35)
Chris Gomez (38)
Jerry Hairston Jr. (33)
Aaron Miles (32)
Tomohiro Nioka (33)
Luis Rivas (29)
Juan Uribe (30)
Omar Vizquel (42)
We may have overpaid for Punto, but acceptable FA alternatives for less money are hard to find.
Now that Ty Wigginton is a free agent, is there any way someone could get Bill Smith to sign him. We wouldn’t have to trade anybody, just spend some of the money that we saved by letting Hunter and Santana get away
Sane
fair enough, but that 4 mill could have gone toward another free agent. Tolbert would have easily slid into 2B and Casilla shifting over to SS doesn’t change much in offense or defense.
i also partly agree with you on Harris. I still like him though, you can’t change my mind
I agree with you regarding the Casilla shift to SS and I advocated signing Grudzielanek to play 2B (one year and very inexpensive).
That WAS the way to gather resources for other acquisitions.
That was the ultimate alternative to the Punto signing.
I liked Grudz too but only as a stop gap for a year like you said until Tolbert got better (which he will). But it is looking like there are quite a few teams (5 or 6?) that are interested, and I could see him getting a 3-4 mill offer, pretty much negating the cost savings of not signing Punto to that deal.
sane:
Out of that whole list…the only name that didn’t make me wretch was Orlando Cabrera.
Garciaparra is a shadow of his former self (does he even play SS anymore?)
Eckstein, Uribe, and Rivas are essentially Punto (or worse)
Chris Gomez is “been there done that” territory.
I think the only name on there I’d be interested in is Counsell…and that’s only because of his stance.
Hairston is a bit of a super utility guy, plays a decent SS and had a nice year offensively last year…
yeah thats a bit of a stretch too, but he’d have been cheap.
I’d have still preferred to roll with Tolbert at 2B and Casilla at SS or someone else at 2B/SS depending on the battle in spring training - Tolleson? Machado? Who knows?
Sign Wiggington.
Sign Daniel Cabrera, move him to short relief.
Send Buscher to Rochester, where he belongs, Harris becomes the primary utility infielder. Gardy will need another, that can be Tolbert.
I’d love to see Burrell the full time DH, but that’s a pipe dream.
Thrylos, thanks for posting the link to the fielding bible plus/minus website. Great stuff. I’d looked over the Everett/Jeter article before, but hadn’t gone back to the website any time recently. There is a bunch of stuff that jumps out from those lists, looking at the 2006-2008 numbers, as well as the 2008 numbers specifically:
1)Garrett Atkins really is a butcher: double digits miinus plays at both first and third last year.
2)Beltre really is the class of the league at third: 32 extra plays made last year alone.
3)Detroit is going to benefit from a healthy Adam Everett: 58 extra plays made from 2006-2008, with basically zero playing time last year. If he hadn’t gotten hurt, I think Everett would’ve stuck as our SS.
4)Punto ranks 7th in terms of plus plays for third basemen over the last three years. I think all of the Punto haters are missing the value of his glove. If we were alright with Everett at SS, Punto should be ok; especially if he can bat above .260 again. He can draw also draw a walk.
5)Nothing new, but Gomez is phenomenal in center. Already pretty much the best in the league, along with Beltran.
6)Span is amazing, as well, already climbing the leaderboards.
7)Cuddyer is a terrible defender, more than 20 minus plays per year. Young is also bad, but misses a third of the plays that Cuddyer does.
My takeaways:
1)Punto at SS–not too bad. He’s not a great hitter, but the average ML SS isn’t, so we don’t lose much in terms of offense, and we are in fact gaining on defense.
2)For our 3B options, if we can get Beltre, (no trade clause notwithstanding) it’s worth it. Wigginton might be worth pursuing, but realize that he is going to hurt us a lot defensively. (From 06-08, Beltre is +63 at 3B, while Wigginton is -26. Thirty plays a year is definitely a difference.)
3)The Cuddyer contract was pretty bad, and boxes the Twins in to some bad decisions. Hopefully one of them won’t be trading DY, but I’m afraid it might be.
Here’s a bold prediction, well not so bold for me, but for a lot of you out there:
Blake, overall, WILL have a better year than Wiggington. That’s it. He simply Will.
Two and three years down the road might be different, but this year, Blake Will do better.
That being said, now that Blake’s gone, I Definitely would be happy to get him.
define better year TK?
I don’t see how anyone can knock Wiggintons defense we did put up with Buscher for most of last year and Wigginton is a hell of a lot better than that.
theres no doubt that wigginton is going to get the offers….for that reason i am pleading with mr bill smith to get off his arse and get this guy signed now….i know the reds and others are very interested in him because this guy can flat out hit—i predict if the twins sign him he will be better than blake - just go to mlb.com and look at his stats and check a few highlites on him…it convinced me that hes the guy we need…dont waste time mr bill–maybe we need to petition bill smith to sign wigginton…think he would listen???
mj1,
Having fired obscenities at Bill Smith repeatedly in the past year, your signature probably wouldn’t help the effectiveness of that petition.
mj1,
However, I support your opinion that Wigginton is exactly what the Twins need and would sign that petition ASAP.
From mlbtraderumors:
“Ty Wigginton has received calls from four teams since being non-tendered by the Astros.”
sid -
Reds, Indians, Angels, and Twins?
The Reds are thinking of him as an OF and he isn’t their first choice.
The Twins and Indians obviously want him as a 3rd baseman.
But what do the Angels want him for?
sploorp - the Angels have Figgins at 3B who is more of a utility guy at this point. that and they can spend money as they please these days (5 years 90 mill for Hunter…) and I just have a hunch is all
So I’m guessing if the Reds and Twins were “equal” in the bidding war…Wiggington would likely side with a team offering him his “natural” position.
Hey La Velle, we have a honest to goodness real life BLIZZARD up here on the frozen tundra. How about another update on Twin’s news. Bring a little summer warmth to my thoughts. THANK YOU!
I love how the Reds are so open on who they are interested in.
Figgins is NOT a utility player.
Only Hunter, Garrett Anderson and Vlady had more at-bats or hits than Figgy who also led the Andels with 34 SB. (Torii 2nd on the team with 19 SB)
Figgy is the Angels’s regular 3B, although he has the skills to play OF, there is no room for him there.
