Funeral services for Carl Pohlad announced
Posted on January 6th, 2009 – 4:05 PMBy La Velle
In case you didn’t read the official obit, here are details of funeral services for Twins owner Carl Pohlad, who passed away on Monday at age 93.
The wake will be held at Washburn McReavy Funeral Chapel, West 50th at Hwy 100, Edina between 4 and 8 p.m. Wednesday, January 7.
The funeral service will be held at The Basilica of Saint Mary in Minneapolis Thursday, January 8 at 1 p.m.
134 Responses to "Funeral services for Carl Pohlad announced"
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alot of nice, well deserved comments about carl in the last 2 days ….well deserved, as it seems this man did alot for the town besides baseball..i wish his family the best and hope the sons will carry on very successfully…..go twins…
just read a great article from nick & nick on their blog regarding trading b. revere…very interesting and they really seem to know what they are talking about and i couldnt agree with them anymore….we definately have a glut of outfielders from the same mold….
RIP Mr.P. Maybe you and another Mr.P. can share a laugh together again soon:
mj1,
re: Ben Revere:
here is the kicker: The guy was drafted as a second baseman. The Twins do not have many good middle infield prospects (Tolleson and Singleton, maybe Plouffe and Dinkelman; that’s about it). I would not be surprised if he is turned back into a second baseman with Casilla moving to his natural SS position. Plus, DY will be eligible for arbitration in 2010, Gomez in 2011 and Span in 2012. Hicks, Revere and Morales project to be ready about 2011-2012, so there is not really that much of a rush
Many awful things were said about Mr. Pohlad on this blog over the years. I think T said more horrible things than anyone about the Pohlads. It’s just my opinion, but I think T was by far the most nasty.
The OF is the Twins biggest weakness. Here’s is an evaluation by Craig:
-Denard is excellent.
-Gomez throws to the wrong base and his hitting is dreadful. He can run and catch the ball.
-Cuddy is a mediocre hitter and a terrible OF, but he’s 10 times better in the field than Delmon.
-Pridie can run and catch it, but can’t hit at all.
-Kubel should never play in the field, unless the only other choice is Delmon. Kubel needs to be platooned almost always. Can’t hit LHP.
- Luis Matos is a talented veteran. Not a great player, but he can field and run and also hit a little. He should make the team by default.
- Bill Smith says the Twins have guys Delmon’s age in AA. Or was it class A?
Anyway, Tender Loving Craig agrees that’s where Delmon belongs, but he prefers instead that Delmon be traded to a team run by a gullible GM. The Twins need a back-up SS/utility infielder. I expect a trade in January.
Summary:
Denard is solid. Craig can hold his nose when Gomez bats. One of Cuddy-Delmon-Kubel is more than enough. Matos needs to be on the team.
Craig, now’s really not the time for trolling…
Matos needs to be on the team.
Gesundheit
Revere wasn’t “drafted as a second baseman”.
He was switched to centerfield while still in HS to better utilize his blazing speed.
The dual purpose was to help his HS team AND make him a better prospect for the first year player draft.
did someone just say trade DY for a back up infielder, glad ur not in charge.
You’ll live a longer, healthier, happier life, Miller, if you just learn to ignore anything and everything posted under some version of the name “Craig.”
Why are there so many ‘fans’ so obsessed with the dumping of Delmon Young ! The guy is what 23? Talent scouts have long considered him at the top of the list of players with raw talent and he hasn’t exactly tanked on the field. Impatient fans want him producing like an allstar NOW and forget that players find their groove at different times and places. Remember Torii didn’t become the player that thrilled us all until his 4th or 5th year, and fans were frustrated by David Oritz’s mediocre play here too. I remember ‘fans’ not that upset when Oritz was cut , now every one of those ‘fans’ bitch that the Twins let him go. Fans also ,this time last year, were crying “trade a pitcher -trade a pitcher -get some solid bats out there!” So they traded Garza and the fans are bitchin ‘why did they get rid of HIM!’ Mark my words , if the Twins trade Young and even if they get someone OK in return , they will bitch and moan when Delmon hits his stride and makes an allstar team for another team.
It looks like I was pretty much dead on with predictions that Young start to take over Punto’s job as “most hated Twin (be it rationally or not is up to you)”
Maybe that’s why Punto’s worth 4 million a year to the Twins, to keep the fans off Young’s doorstep.
Tender Loving Craig Hillarious
Ron, but they didn’t get a solid bat for that pitcher. Delmon was terrible compared to other LFers last year. He might get better, but he might not. Many experts (BA and ESPN) are now wondering if they were wrong about Delmon. He has not hit more than 13 HRs since AA. He hits a very high percentage of his balls in play on the ground. He doesn’t walk. He looked pretty challenged as a fielder last year. He didn’t steal bases.
Now, can he become good, sure. But, there are now three years of not so stellar results that indicate that either he’s been rushed to the majors too soon, or he’s not as good as we all thought he’d be 4 years ago.
Delmon runs like Lamar Latrell from Revenge of the Nerds and looks like him too.
http://www.luminomagazine.com/2004.10/spotlight/nerds/images/lamar/lamar1.jpg
“Many experts (BA and ESPN) are now wondering if they were wrong about Delmon.”
Were they wrong then?
Are they wrong now?
Are they really experts?
So much to consider.
sane I think DY will end up being around a .280 hitter with minimal power numbers 8-14 HR’s a year? Just my guess. Nothing special just a solid hitter with a poor glove
jb,
I think after two years experience and hitting .290+ as a 21 and 22-year-old,
he has a good chance of improving.
But your guess, my guess, ESPN’s guess and BA’s guess are all guesses with a similar lack of validity.
Don,t really think that ESPN, is an expert, at anything, and sports Ills. is even worse,
sane do u think that DY has a chance of getting Diabetes as his brother did. I feel they both (DY and his brother) struggle with weight problems
jb,
If you think that Delmon will fail as a hitter, develop Diabetes, and get fat - then you better hope the Twins get rid of him.
He played 162 games as a rookie.
None of the games he missed last year were due to injury or illness.
He is durable as hell.
Contrast that to the Cuddaver, who just took his outfield job.
DY will hit better then cuddaver for a higher avg with less power. They both have no range in there fielding ability but Cuddaver has a stronger arm and he can do magic tricks. The Twins FO does not like to admit mistakes so the new Cuddaver contract will remain with the Twins till the time on it expires.
Was there an announcement I missed about raising ticket prices in ‘09, because once again they have. Check your old schedule or the seating they still have up on the site against the season ticket plan page for ‘09. Unbelievable.
Seriously? They raised ticket prices, even though they are more than $15MM below their stated budget, we are in a huge economic downturn, and they have huge, huge money coming in 2010? And, they did the temporary lower prices last year? Not the marketing move I’d have made, but I don’t have all the data they do.
I always wonder when sports will finally price itself out of consideration for more fans.
sane, so no one has an opinion that is more educated or valid than someone else’s? Everything is just a guess? Then why pay any GM anything? Why not hire you to be GM?
I think that the Twins should get rid of Mauer, Morneau, Cuddy and Punto and trade them for prospects before the players I just named become to expensive to keep. I wonder what the payroll would go down to without those contracts adding against the Twins payroll
This news just in from MLB Trade Rumors. The Twins have no new news regarding getting a MR or a 3rd Baseman yet
They dropped ticket prices starting last June in two levels (upper club, lower reserved), related to higher gas prices, which helped the walk-up folks…but ticket prices in 2008 were also increased over 2007.
Denny’s Reyes is still unsigned. Anyone have an idea on if the Twins will resign him
mike,
“so no one has an opinion that is more educated or valid than someone else’s? Everything is just a guess? Then why pay any GM anything? Why not hire you to be GM?”
Some opinions have more validity to some people.
I value the BA scouts’ opinions more than others because they are out in the field evaluating and they have more experience.
Their ability (inability?) to predict the future success of young players is only limited by the uncertainty of that process.
Not as limited as you and I perhaps, but limited nonetheless.
As far as my being GM, I prefer my past and present jobs in which I gave people sh-t, rather than having it handed to me, like Bill Smith.
Also, if you think BS is the point man in player evaluation, I don’t think you realize that he is a general MANAGER in the true sense of the word MANAGER.
Knowing his background, IMO he leaves player evaluation to the “experts” in the FO and just acts on their evaluations after proper discussion with the rest of the FO team.
Also, the same people who predicted greatness for Delmon earlier are predicting much less now.
Like I said:
Were they correct then?
Will they be correct now?
I don’t think the validity of their opinions can increase BECAUSE they were previously wrong.
If they were wrong before, the validity of their current opinion should have decreased.
Sane….you just melted my BRAIN.
jb, re: Dennys Reyes, http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2009/01/dodgers-made-of.html
T,
Sorry.
My goal was to be logical.
What the hell.
I took a shot at it.
sane,
I believe Delmon did about as well as we could reasonably expect last year. 22 yrs old. New team. History of less then stellar “ethics”. His dad in his ear as maybe his only “stable datum”. I think he put up great numbers given his situation. And he stayed out of trouble. And he didn’t react to Crawford lipping off. And he played hurt. And there appeared to be effort to conform to the “Twins” way. I think if he can get comfortable in LF we can expect big things from this kid.
mike-sane has actual baseball experience,how about you!
GENO
Let’s not get personal. To my knowledge there are no professional scouts who post here.
T Thank You regarding the Reyes article Reyes is a Dodger.
sane you just melted the retinas out of my skull
Ticket prices have been increasing steadily ever since we gave the Pohlads a new stadium - we are being eased into a new era in ticket pricing rather than being clobbered all at once. Clever. Note that there will be no “cheap seat” season tickets in 2010 (and they go to $10 in 2009). The flex plan also dies off. 20 game package holders will need to bring binoculars (or rent tham???).
Ben, I took a look at Yankee ticket “options” once just for comparison.
Let’s just say if you think you’re getting the gouged at Target Field, Yankee fans are getting pillaged.
Indeed. But, I wasn’t doing a comparison and am not a Yankees fan - although there apparently are a great many folks who feel that watching the best team on the planet is worth the price of admission.
Ticket prices are set by marketing geeks with one goal in mind: max revenue.
A greatly simplified example:
If they think they can sell 1 million tickets at $1 (total revenue = $1M)
and
they think they can sell 750,000 tickets at $2 (total revenue = $1.5M)
but
they think they’ll only sell 300,000 tickets if they raise prices to $3 (total revenue = $900,000)
Then they’ll go with $2 per ticket, because that price point maximizes revenue.
Of course it’s a lot more complicated than that. There are multiple ticket prices to consider, and they must factor in concession sales, hat/jersey sales, TV ratings if they alienate the fan base, and I’m sure a myriad of other thing, etc.
But the primary driver of ticket prices is, “what price maximizes revenue.”
there apparently are a great many folks who feel that watching the best team on the planet is worth the price of admission.
It’s the chicken/egg scenario.
Do the Twins sign better players to hopefully increase attendence and thus sustain a higher level of payroll?
Or do the Twins raise ticket prices to hopefully increase revenue and thus sustain a higher level of payroll?
And keep in mind that Yankees haven’t won a World Series since 2000. And have “only” been there twice. So your measurement of “the best team on the planet” may not be entirely accurate.
“there apparently are a great many folks who feel that watching the best team on the planet is worth the price of admission.”
Because it takes less time than driving from NYC to Philadelphia to see the ACTUAL “best team on the planet”.
saam,
“To my knowledge there are no professional scouts who post here.”:
If anyone wants to take a pay cut, but get to travel 24/7/365, answer the following Ad by google:
Baseball Scouts needed:
Get paid to scout baseball in your area. Training available.
Mike wants wins.
Interesting your take on Delmon Young.
Take a look at Joe Mauers 1st 3 years in the ML, and place it alongside Delmon’s.
Each had a piece of a 1st year. With 1(2) exceptions, they are virtually identical. That exception is the BB/K ratio for Mauer…which oddly enough there is more than modest complaint in these quarters. Just one other small fact, Joe Mauer was 1 year older in each of those years.
Twins fans, you got to love them. Complain about signing “washed-up” oldsters, and also complain about 22/23 year-olds who haven’t yet made the Hall of Fame by that age.
I suspect most of these fans “Hated” Kirby Puckett…I mean he was SO BAD he couldn’t make the ML roster until he was 24.
Regards,
My baseball background is limited to being mediocre in the field and having no bat in little league.
I don’t recall the records, but who won more games last year, the Yankees or the Twins? I’ll check, hold on….The Yankees. They just happened to be in the best division in baseball. All that money actuall bought a lot. They won 89 games while losing three of their projected starting pitchers to injury (or just being really bad). That money bought the depth to nearly get over those problems. Now they’ve added to very good pitchers and a great defensive and offensive first baseman. (just checked, they also allowed less runs than the Twins last year, who’d have thought?)
I don’t hate Delmon. I just don’t think he was all that good last year. I’ve rarely predicted how well he will be in the future, because as sane accurately points out, I am not informed enough to do that. Most of my arguments on these boards are about what he did, not what he will do.
I think he was one of the worst hitting every day LFers in the game last year. Part of what makes Mauer so valuable is that he plays catcher, not a corner OF spot. Compare Delmon’s offense to other corner OFers and get back to me. Is he young? sure. Can he improve? sure. Am I as confident about him as I was 4 years ago when he was destroying AA pitching? No, I’m not. He was actually worse in 2008 than in 2007. That’s not a good trend * note, two points don’t make for a good measure of a trend*
As for Mauer, I’ve never complained about his approach. I have said that he isn’t necessarily quite the offensive force some make him out to be.
Easy for everyone! Fangraphs comparison between mauer and young:
mike,
I agree.
If the Twins spent the Yankees money, the Twins would be improved.
With the Yankees resources, the Twins would not have to be careful with FA’s or trading prospects for established major leaguers.
But the real Twins can’t afford to make Pavano-like mistakes.
So the Twins spend their time kicking the tires and end up with a lot of cheap lemons.(Monroe, Batista, Livan, etc)
yeah, I’d rather they stop going that route, and give youngsters a chance. At least with youngsters they might get good. Of course, I’d rather they spent another 10-15million and get Dunn or Abreu and a RP, but that’s not likely either. so, if my choices are old washed up (or never good) guys, and young guys, I’ll go with the young guys.
MWW I think I would go with and old and washed up team
and more expensive too jimmy!
Actually, sane, I don’t think the Yankees can affore Pavano-like mistakes, either. At least not in terms of on the filed performance (the pocketbook is something else). They did make the playoffs three of the years he was on the payroll, but didn’t do anything because their pitching was so bad. I’m with mike wants to win in the sense that I would rather see the Tolberts and Harrises of the world playing in lieu of the Monroes and Batistas, but would it kill the club to spend some money now and again? All contracts are risky to some degree (see, e.g., Mays, Joe), but hey, take a shot and see what happens. I hate the “let’s live in fear” mentality.
Boneyard,
IMO, if the Twins would have picked winners instead of losers (Monroe, Batista,etc.) in previous forays in the FA market, their butt cheeks would not be so tight now.
Success breeds confidence, and right now the Twins FO has a lot of reason to be timid.
One or two GOOD FA signings would be the best cure for their constipation.
jimmy is that a picture of when they were shaking on contracting the twins out of existence?
Agreed, sane, but in order to have success, you actually have to take a run at someone who could be good. Batista, Monroe, Everett, Lamb, Hernandez, Ponson, et al. were all has-beens or never-weres. None of them had any chance to be good when the Twins signed them. At least with Joe Mays (not a FA, but it was an expensive 4-year investment) they signed a young guy who had had some recent success. I don’t fault the FO for the way that turned out. I do with the other signings I mentioned because they never had a chance.
GGG evil pic isn’t it
I disagree that the Twins list of failed FA’s were “never weres”.
They all had “their years” and the Twins Scouting Dept. (incorrectly) identified them as possibly capable of re-approaching their past levels.
Nobody purposely signs FA’s who obviously have “no chance”.
Lamb’s past numbers, for instance, looked hopeful. So much for hope.
Sometimes you can’t stop rolling snake-eyes, even with honest dice.
“”Or do the Twins raise ticket prices to hopefully increase revenue and thus sustain a higher level of payroll?”"
I don’t think you understand how businesses work, T.
The Twins are ALREADY setting their ticket structure at the point they think maximizes revenue.
Why wouldn’t they? Do you think they are currently INTENTIONALLY leaving ticket money on the table?
The only way for the Twins to increase revenue is to increase demand, allowing them to sell more tickets at the same price, or fewer tickets at a higher price, but a price which still results in more revenue.
“their butt cheeks would not be so tight now.Success breeds confidence, and right now the Twins FO has a lot of reason to be timid.One or two GOOD FA signings would be the best cure for their constipation.”
sane, LOL! Your incredible command of the English language is exceeded only by the depth of your baseball knowledge! By the way, your comment above encompasses both. I wish the Twins FO would roll the dice on a free agent of quality where the odds for success were a little more stacked in their favor. Then perhaps the confidence would come for the future.
Delmon does not “get after it”. He does not play “the Twins way”. He does not “do all the little things”. He is “stubborn”. He does not play the game “the right way”. He isn’t a “gamer”. He is not all beefed up on “intangibles” (like Punto). He has the longest tail of any Twin. He has not “battled his tail off” at all. Walk around with a big old long tail like that, and you don’t last long with the Twins. Gardy and Tender Loving Craig are on the same page on this one. Good bye Delmon, and good riddance.
Tender loving Craig-How many times have you been told,good bye and good riddance from the web master of this blog!
The Twins’ front office will never gain any confidence in free agent signings if they are only willing to go after over-the-hill veterans and failing castoffs who had one good year…5 years before.
I think the Twins would be able to trade Delmon and Kubel. There is no high demand for players like that, but a prospect for each might be possible. They have cheap or reasonable contracts, as long as Billy Smith doesn’t go nuts again and sign the marginal Kubel to a multi-year deal.
Cuddy is untradable with his preposterous contract, but if he plays right field and gets off to a good start in 2009, I think the Twins might be able to dump him off before the trade deadline, to some desperate team hit by a series of injuries.
It’s obvious by the Tiexiera deal that the Twins will not be able to afford Morny when Morny’s contract comes due. The sooner they trade Morny, the more they will get in return. Waiting until Morny has only a year left puts them in the same bad position they were in with Santana. All the Twins received in exchange for Santana is an OF who can’t hit and three bad pitchers. The Twins need to get more than that for Morny. I hate to lose Morny, because I love Morny more than anyone, but Morny has no long term future as a Twin.
The small market Twins cannot build a sustainable team around HR hitters. Those guys make too much money. Fans love the thrill of the HR. HR hitters draw fans. Teams pay big money for those type of players. A winning team will also draw fans. As we all know the Twins have proven that they can score plenty of runs, and win without HRs.
A team of little scrappers all beeefed up on intangibles is the way the Twins need to go. Spend money on vital pitching (also expensive) not on a fun luxury that is not needed (homeruns).
The Twins need to look for players that produce a high OBP. OBP correlates to runs scored. All OBP is not created equally. The important thing to look for is high quality OBP. That OBP produced primarily by hitting (average). Be wary of low quality OBP. OBP generated largely by bases on balls (walks).
The Twins must also return to their focus on quality outs. Worthless strikeouts must be minimized. Terry Ryan was so aware of this. Tender Loving Craig recommends not allowing a Twins player to strikeout more than once per every 6 AB. Any major league hitter should be able to accomplish such a lax and minimal standard if he puts his mind to it and works at it.
GENO,
Where is the love?
La Velle has never said goodbye and good riddance to me. I have tremendous respect for La Velle. He put me on probation for a time, and I didn’t return until he gave me the OK to do so.
I think it was largely a misunderstanding.
I have led the league in blog participation for several years, posting the most thoughtful, highest quality, and most informative posts. Triple crown winner. Every once in awhile a superstar gets off track, and that happened to me with my brief ban, which happened long ago.
The Tender One is not the same snarly blog participant he once was. Tender is now much more relaxed and laid back about everything. TLC is just entering his prime as a bolgster and is brimming with confidence, while at the same time exuding tenderness and love.
Accept the love, GENO.
Bask in the love, GENO.
Return the love, GENO.
TLC
Now I would like to address T calling me a troll. Nothing could be further from the truth. A “troll” as I understand it, is trying to get a reaction, or interfere with ongoing dialog. I don’t interfere with anyone elses conversation, and I don’t care at all whether anyone responds to my posts. I don’t care if no one reads them. I read them and enjoy them immensely.
If all you can say is something nasty I would prefer you not respond. T has always been a name calling type of individual toward his fellow bloggers and that is his playground style. Now I call players a name or two, but they don’t read this trash, and it’s all in fun anyway. T, on the other hand, has no understanding of the concept of polite discourse engaged in by civilized human beings. His approach is either childish or street gutter unsophisticated. I’m not sure which. I’m not bothered by it at all. T is just fine with me, despite his obvious limitations.
Chief: I think sometimes a business will be willing to “leave” money on the table if the trade off is wider fan turnout. Because while they could probably hit the same amount of revenue at one ticket price as they could the other…they last thing they’d want to do is jack up the ticket prices as high as they *could*.
Especially when a team (such as the Twins) is attempting to build a bit of goodwill.
One last note: jimmy bee is the man. jimmy bee understands that baseball is fun and that blog participation is fun. It is entertainment.
There are too many people who take a far too serious approach. If someone has a differnt opinion than you, it is okay. The world will not end.
A lot of people on this blog have the same mentality of wife beating, heavy beer drinkers. Guys who kick the dog when it won’t obey. I know some guys like you, and you are real sick people. You are used to bullying and having your own way. The Tender One is not intimidated by such sociopathic types.
Now, jimmy bee and I often disagree about baseball. So what? We are friends on the blog, emotionally stable individuals, and enjoy the entertainment of it all in a healthy way. There are others who also take the same approach as jimmy and I …. Then there are the real sickos. You know who you are.
See what I mean?
T,
It will be interesting to see if the “Maximizing” Revenue model changes in the new stadium.
It is my understanding that currently their lease precludes them expoliting/benefiting from certain revenue streams 29 other teams enjoy. Thus, they have to maximize from a reduced number of streams.
Time will tell.
Regards,
I accept your thanks in advance for the helping you poor confused people. I do what I can for you, and always have you in my tender loving heart. Good night.
I’m beating a dead horse, but how about signing Morgan Ensberg to a minor league deal? He was tearing it up until he got hurt in 2006, and hasn’t gotten regular playing time since. (in part because the astros went with wigginton.). Ensbergs defense, surprisingly, isn’t bad, kind of average. Way better defender than Wigginton, Atkins, or Buscher. Check his values on fangrsphs; he’s put up $23million and $14 million valued years. He’s 33, worth a flyer.
werbellik,
Thanks for the kind words.
Reusse joins the chorus wondering where the Twins GM has been hiding these last few months.
Spot on, Pat. Spot on.
Atta boy Reusse. While some of this specific points are certainly debatable, at least somebody is calling out Smith. Good for him.
While I agree with some of the points Ruesse makes…I find it a little tasteless that he sequed into the article through a comment on Pohlad’s funeral.
I don’t agree on DeRosa (the answer at 3B is NOT a career MIF), and I don’t believe the Twins can be held responsible if a guy like Lyon refuses because the other teams are offering full-time closer jobs.
I am surprised that Ruesse didn’t bring up Wiggington, since that is a guy who seems like a better fit than Blake.
Hmmm - mlbtraderumors.com
Heyman confirms that the Yankees are accepting trade offers for Xavier Nady and Nick Swisher.
I don’t recall what they gave up, but the Yanks just got Swisher this offseason. What’s up there?
Twins Geek has an excellent article posted today…”Of Budget and Betrayal.”
He looks at the Twins payroll, supplies much relevant data, and asks the question many have been asking for a while now…why is the Twins payroll going DOWN, two years in a row? This despite a contending team, clearly identifiable needs, upgrades available at relatively inexpensive prices, and a new stadium opening next year?
One of Swisher/Nady might be available due to some guy named Tax, or Tux, or something like that…apparently the Yankees picked up this guy recently to play first base. Surprised it didn’t make the local papers.
Edited: One warning for you. We don’t celebrate people’s deaths on this blog.
USAF, where do I find this Twins Geek article you are referring to?
Kevin: click on the “Twins Geek” link in the blogroll under LaVelle’s picture, top right of this blog.
Kevin,
TwinsGeek is on Lavelle’s blogroll on the top of this page on the near right
thanks USAF and Shawn
T,
The Yanks want to trade Swisher because they got Teixiera… they must not have thought they would be signing him when they made that trade.
I figured a team like the Yankees could afford to keep a guy like Swisher as backup. Especially since they’ve lost Giambi, and it sounds like Shelly Duncan (I think that’s the guy) is shopping around for a contract.
my wish had been that this robber baron Cheap Carl would never see the opening of his cherished stadium.
Hi Kevin, welcome to Monday, why don’t you read La Velle’s 12:15 post here: http://blogs2.startribune.com/blogs/neal/2009/01/05/the-twins-search-for-bullpen-help-continues/.
Here’s a question that I’m blanking on…who was that 1st baseman the Tigers had a few years ago that opened the season on FIRE and by the end of the season was cut?
Was that Duncan?
When Nick Punto is your 4th highest paid player, you know your team is not serious about contending, is cheap, and is all the other negative things people say about them. Seriously, can anyone argue that if Punto is the 4th highest paid player that this team is serious about putting the best team out there it can?
Revenues are up, and salaries are down, again.
mike someday nicky will have his jersey retired for all his getting after it, battling his tail off and needless sliding into first base.
he is the definition of “gardyball”!
I ran into Dick Bremer at the health club Sunday, I see him there sometimes, though don’t claim to know him at all but he is gracious enough to give me a few minutes of time to chat Twins. I dont know how plugged in he is, but Sunday he told me he pretty much thinks the Twins roster is as it will be opening day. He sees no deals coming.
Where does everybody get “4th highest player” for Punto? I mean, I know Cuddyer was hurt for most of 2008…but he’s still around.
1) Nathan - $11.25
2) Morneau - $10.6
3) Mauer - 10.5
4) Cuddyer - 6.75
5) Punto - 4.00
6) Kubel - 3.50
Yeah, he’s “5th highest”, but when the dropoff from 3rd to 4th is almost 4 mil, and the drop off from 3rd to 5th is more than 6 mil…that’s being a little less than genuine.
That being said, it’d be nice to see a Wigginton type guy slide in there between Cuddy and Punto (or Cuddy and Mauer…who knows)
ggg Punto should get a new nickname like slide-oh or dirt boy.
I should’ve actually gone down to #7 on that list…which would be Mike Lamb.
Yep, one of the top ten highest paid players on the team, isn’t even on the team.
When your entire rotation, your LF, CF, RF, 3B, and 2B are all young pre-arbitation players, and Punto just signed a FA contract, that’s when Punto’s contract becomes an anomaly.
That is not a denial or excuse that the Twins are thrifty (cheap), just a partial explanation.
Kevin, I ran into Marney Gellnar at the health club on Monday, and she said that she thinks Dick Bremer is full of it.
I once used a urinal next to Ahhhhhhnold Schwarzenegger.
Mike lamb, singed with the Brew crew, for this year, are the twins still on hook , for 5 mil,
sane: Based on 2008…who do you think the Twins would be most likely to look at getting signed vs. taking to arbitration?
Because I think they got Morneau to tear up a few arbitration years…did they not?
popbelly: Yes. The only way the Twins would’ve gotten off the hook for Lamb would’ve been to deal him last season. As it stands they are on the hook for his 3 mil this year.
Which is why the Brewers could afford to sign him for “5″, as I think they only have to pay the 2 mil difference…
Sorry, I forgot about Cuddeyer (easy to do).
The reason all of those players are pre-arb eligible is that they’ve gotten rid of most of the players that were more expensive (*which is sometimes the right thing to do, but they nearly always do it).
It is a self-fulfilling prophecy. If you nearly always deal (or let walk) your expensive players, you always have the excuse that “we only have young players”.
If they do manage to re-sign Mauer, how many of these other players will be around post-arbitration? Not many, but they’ll be dealt for younger, cheaper guys, and that will be why they only have 4 or so guys making more than $4MM per year.
While there may be circumstances explaining why Punto’s salary ranks where it ranks, I think mike has a point. Punto is, at best, an end of the bench guy. Who else was willing to pay him that kind of money (or any money, for that matter)? Even if all those arbitration-eligible guys pass him up next year (which they won’t and some of them will find homes elsewhere) his comparative salary will still be above what an end of the bench guy should be getting. The bottom line is Punto was apparently Smith’s offseason priority. That does not speak to a commitment to improving on 88 wins.
Popbelly: The Brew Crew will pay Lamb the MLB minimum (approx $400K), which comes off what the Twins owe him.
The Twins will pay Lamb approximately $2.6M this year.
Plus, by the way, a $100K buyout on 2010 team option. Pray Lamb doesn’t reach 510 plate appearances in 2009, or the 2010 option becomes a player option, and the Twins would be on the hook for $3.5M in 2010, too. (Source: Cot’s)
If we still owe Lamb 2.6m this year why didn’t we just pull a marbury and pay and then sit him
jimmy bee: the roster spot is too valuable. Keeping Lamb means someone has to go down.
T,
I don’t have a list of arbitration eligibles, but IMO the possible signees would be led by Liriano and Baker.
Others may be Delmon or Crain, who need a good year to convince the Twins that they are keepers.
Plus, at least the Twins only have to pay him 2.6 instead of 3.0.
Boneyard with a surplus of OF’s we should maybe have kept Lamb and then sent Gomez down to learn how to hit a curveball
jb: The Twins would rather have the roster spot than Lamb.
Chief: Thanks for the info on Lamb. Didn’t realize the Twins had a third year option on Lamb… Since he’s no longer with the team, does that option become the Brewer’s?
But Punto will not be an “end-of-the-bench” player this year.
He will be the everyday SS.
He got that designation from Gardy before they re-signed him.
jimmy bee, that plan might be a reasonable one, but the argument can be made that Gomez, as is, helped the club more offensively than Lamb did. I don’t know, I’m just glad to see all of last year’s rummage sale signees gone. I never liked any of the signings, so maybe my prejudice is just bleeding through.
If anything, the Twins have “improved” their approach by not simply hitting the bargain bin for new FAs.
Perhaps the theme is “one step at a time”? :{
Very positive view there, T.
Yes, sane, I realize he is slated to be the starting SS. That does not mean that’s what his actual ability level is. Only those who drink the tasty Kool-Aid think Punto deserves 500 AB. His ‘09 will, unfortunately, be much closer to his ‘07 than his ‘08.
LNP is best used as a one day on one day off again role playing utility man. Ala Mickey Hatcher
T: Nope. The option is the responsibility of the team that signed him to the contract (in the case of a player who’s released.)
All this contract stuff is readily available at Cot’s Baseball Contracts, a handy site to have in your favorites.
If Punto hits .284-.290 again (even if it is RBI-free again), please pass the Kool-Aid.
According to Cot’s, the only Twins arb-eligible in 2009 are Guerrier and Kubel.
Will do, sane.
mike wants wins,
You might want to take a look at Twinkie Town, where someone did a salary analysis a couple of days ago.
It appears 2009 is NOT a problem, BUT 2010 and beyond the worm turns dramatically.
I am not aware of many FA’s that are willing to sign a 1 year deal.
Of course another answer is to spend the $150-200 mil/year local broadcast revenue like the Yankees and Red Sox, rather than pocketing this money.
Regards,
Not if he’s the 5th highest paid player. You need to puzzle together a team. For a team willing to pay for a real 3B and corner OFers and RP with more than 2 years experience, Punto might be worth $4MM per year. For a team unwilling to do that, I’m not sure he is.
Also, why do you keep only posting BA lately? He could not slug his way out of a paper bag, not even compared to other SS. (though interestingly, his OPS is higher than Orlando Cabrera last year).
Dragon, way to throw out a straw man argument that I have never made. It may be good rhetoric, but it isn’t good logic. I’ve never asked them to spend $150MM, never, never, never. I’ve asked them to spend to the budget they’ve told us they’ll spend to.
As for 2010, if they sign Mauer, do you really think they’ll sign more than 1 or 2 of any of the other arbitration eligible players?
True, Punto’s ops is higher than Cabrera’s, but Cabrera is a terrible hitter. Also, Punto thrived early in the year when he was not playing everyday. He took an offensive nosedive the last 2 months of the season when he got the bulk of his AB.
I keep posting BA for Punto, because his other stats are not good.
Are we NOT supposed to use ONLY stats which prove our point? (Like the left-fielder-only stats which don’t account for age?)
The problem with Punto’s .284, Sane, is that it comes with precious little else.
He hit .284/.344/.382 last year.
I agree, if he can hit .280 again, he’s not totally useless. But even at .280, he’s a very weak offensive player. He manages to draw enough walks to keep his OBP around .060 higher than his BA, which isn’t terrible, but he has never gotten his SLG up to even .400 in his career.
And there’s no guarantee he’ll be able to hit .280 over a full season, at which point he starts to become worse than very weak.
LNP = Modern day Mickey Hatcher
“”It appears 2009 is NOT a problem, BUT 2010 and beyond the worm turns dramatically.”"
2010…2010…why does that year ring a bell?
What is it that happens in 2010? Can’t seem to put my finger on it.
“New” something or other?
Can somebody help me out here? What is about 2010 that I seem to recall changes the Twins’ financial picture?
Regards,
Chief,
I agree with everything you just said.
Punto’s BA inflates his true offensive value.
But he is not “totally useless.
BTW he hit .284 and .290 in two of his last three years. (And close to ZERO in 2007)
USAF Chief,
There may be two realities relating to 2010. On the plus side is the “new” stadium, on the negative the National economy.
Until recently, the former would be expected to ADD nicely to revenues, NOW it is possible that the latter makes a lateral revenue possible/likely or wishful dreaming.
Thus, my use of the word problem, should have added the qualifier “possible”.
Just for the record, I AM NOT against spending more money on FA’s (I have my own list) or fast cars, or trips or whatever; it happens that I am not qualified to make those judgments, AND I am not convinced that anyone else here is qualified as well.
Some/many on here see spending as Nirvana, and it might well be, yet these blogs were dreadful in predicting within 20% the Twins record last year.
The Twins FO seems to have a plan, I think they have done well in the past year or so, most others here disagree. I live in the DC metropolitan area, we have 2 teams which have gone into the tear the team down and build from scratch. For the Capitals, it has worked in spades, for the Nationals, the fans are leaving in droves.
The future will hold all the answers, the present only angst and maybe clues.
Regards,
That’s a very valid point about the economy.
As to the Twins ‘plan,’ it’s just my opinion, but it seems to me to be pretty obvious that it primarily revolves around using payroll space to ‘pay down’ the Twins contribution to the new stadium rather than improve the team.
And that really torques my jaws.
