Twins invite 15 non-roster players to camp
Posted on January 14th, 2009 – 2:07 PMBy La Velle
Just got a break from training and checked e-mail. Found out the Twins announced their non-roster invites.
Here’s the list. I don’t have time to break this down, although I’m glad they are bringing Delaney into camp.
The spring training invite list includes seven pitchers: lefthanders Mike Gosling, who has spent part of two seasons with the Cincinnati Reds, Sean Henn, who has made 36 appearances for the New York Yankees (2005-07), and Ben Julianel, who had 26 saves for Double-A New Britain last season. Righthanders Rob Delaney, who was signed by the Twins as a non-drafted free agent out of St. Johns (NY) University in 2006, R.A. Dickey, who has over three years of Major League service (Texas and Seattle), Bobby Keppel, who has Major League experience with Kansas City (2006) and Colorado (2007), and Kevin Mulvey, who was acquired by the Twins from the New York Mets in exchange for Johan Santana, February 2, 2008.
Two catchers have been invited to camp: Jeff Christy, the Twins’ sixth round pick in the 2006 First-Year Player Draft, and Danny Lehmann, the Twins’ eighth round pick in the 2007 First-Year Player Draft.
Three infielders have been invited to camp: Alejandro Machado, who was selected by the Twins in the 2006 Rule 5 Draft, then signed to a minor league contract, October 20, 2007, Brock Peterson, the Twins’ 49th round pick in the 2002 First-Year Player Draft, and Danny Valencia, the Twins’ 19th round pick in the 2006 First-Year Player Draft.
Three outfielders have been invited to camp: Dustin Martin, who was acquired by the Twins from the New York Mets in exchange for Luis Castillo, July 30, 2007, Luis Matos, who has over five years of Major League experience with the Baltimore Orioles, and David Winfree, the Twins’ 13th round pick in the 2003 First-Year Player Draft.
Discuss….
Update: Tom Kelly, Tony Oliva, Terry Steinbach, Rod Carew, Harmon Killebrew and Paul Molitor will be down at various times during camp as special instructors.
402 Responses to "Twins invite 15 non-roster players to camp"
Tolleson should have been there instead of Winfree and Peterson. I was hoping he could fight for the backup infielder job.
Also Slama and Swarzak are other omissions and would have been better to have a look at them than Keppel and Gosling and Henn and other never had beens.
Tolleson and Swarzak are roster players.
They don’t need invitations.
I thought Hughes might get invited. Would have been interesting to be able to watch he and Valencia on equal footing.
JC,
Hughes is also a roster player.
No invite needed.
Roster Players:
http://minnesota.twins.mlb.com/team/roster_40man.jsp?c_id=min
good point, sane… so is Hughes, right?
Yep, sane, I just noticed Hughes is on the 40-man already. My bad. Didn’t realize he was there.
right!
@JimC
Hughes is also on the 40 man roster and will be in camp. He didn’t need an invite.
I’ll be very interested to see what happens if Swarzak or Mulvey pitches really well and Perkins struggles. While I’d assume his spot is safe, he may get pushed into the pen.
Go to Hell Bill Smith.
FIRE HIM NOW, MR. POHLAD
Slama will get his chance to pitch in MLB ST games, when other pitchers are at the WBC, or the split-team games start to pile up.
Speaking of WBC, what kind of protection is a team provided should one of their players get hurt while playing in the WBC?
why no toby?
I predicted 12 out of the 15. I hadn’t heard about the Gosling signing, and i didn’t have Julianel, but that is warranted. I didn’t have Winfree or Peterson, but I’m happy for both of them, especially Winfree and his power potential.
I posted several thoughts on each of the players… if anyone is interested. (www.sethspeaks.net)
ggg,
Toby doesn’t need an invitation.
His Dad will take him to work every day.
Oops, I guess that would be 11 out of 15.
“Shortstops!
Get in line behind Toby!”
I’ve always felt the non-roster invites break down in to four categories:
1-Roster fillers that are needed to make sure they have enough players at key positions to have decent workouts and keep regulars from having to play too many innings in early ST games. You need a lot of pitchers for those early games when you’re limiting guys to an inning or two at most and you need plenty of catchers in order to make sure you’ve got guys to catch all of the workout sessions for all of your pitchers.
2-”hot” prospects that you envision having a real chance at a future with your MLB club within the next year or two (or that you want to showcase against MLB talent in order to maximize trade value).
3-”last chance” guys that you’re about to give up on and you want one last look at against MLB talent to see if there’s still a flicker of hope.
4-”long shot” vets that you’ve signed to minor league contracts in the off-season just to see if maybe they have enough in the tank to help you out at some point during the season.
Slama, Ward and Manship will both likely spend some time in big league camp as well. I mean, it’s the same complex. Remember that once someone from the 40 man roster is sent back to minor league camp, they can’t play in big league spring training games, but non-roster guys (whether invited to big league camp or not) can play, and the Twins do a good job of getting some of them some time.
As far as I know, there is no protection for teams if a player gets hurt in the WBC, which is part of why the participation isn’t there. What other American sport holds its only international competition immediately before its regular season? Stupid. They should have it in December, during the week, so that more guys would want to play, and if there was an injury, there would be less of a chance it would impact the regular season.
What are the odds that Gosling’s nickname is NOT “Goose’?
Honestly, who cares?
Me!
So basically there are 7 catchers in the camp (about twice the number of third basemen, a position of need)… Nice
I think Julianel and Delaney are in camp to see if they can help later in the year. Except for Mulvey, the Twins probably had agreements when they signed the rest of the pitchers, to bring them in for a look.
It will be good to see the position players in camp to see what they can do. I’m looking to see Machado can do.
now bring in Crede and Lyons.
Win Twins!
thrylos - need all the catchers that they can get to catch all of the bullpen sessions when they’ve got almost 30 pitchers!
What other American sport holds its only international competition immediately before its regular season?
What other sport holds a pointless exhibition series period?
So thrylos, given your quantity over quality argument, if the Twins went out and invited Tony Batista, Corey Koskie, and traded for Mike Lamb, you would feel that more attention was being paid to the need at third, right?
Catching bullpens is drudgery.
Catchers aren’t invited to camp.
They are sentenced to camp.
“What other sport holds a pointless exhibition series period?”
Football, basketball (college and pros), and hockey.
If the Olympics are pointless…..
anyone with an olympic sport….
Dan G,
the problem is that there is no much quality out there at 3B at this point… I am not talking about signing retread 3B, but taking a flyer in a couple of minor league free agents and inviting them to the camp (like they did for Gosling, Henn and Kepper) and inviting DJ Romero from within the organization would had been a start (he plays at Lehmann’s level and is a much better player)
I personally have no interest at all in the wbc even though I love baseball. How about you guys? You all for it?
There are NINE players with 3B experience in camp:
Buscher, Harris, Hughes, Macri, Valencia, Plouffe, Romero, Tolleson and Tolbert.
What was the point?
dana,
one good thing about WBC is that it showcases some of the world’s talent to MLB scouts who would not have a chance to see certain players. I just wish that the requirement to participate in the different national teams was more stringent (i.e. have only citizens of a country play for that country) so more unknowns were participating. I’d rather see an Italian player I do not know play at SS for Italy and not Punto, for example, because his grandpa was born in Italy.
I’ll watch it, but I don’t care who wins.
And thrylos - DJ Romero is already on the 40 man roster… he’s nowhere near ready for the big leagues… Valencia is probably close, and I can’t imagine a minor league free agent 3B available at this time being any better than Valencia… or Buscher… or Harris.
I forgot Punto.
Make it ten.
We don’t need any more players we have Punto the four million dollar man! 30 home runs 130 rbis and 30 stolen bases in 2009! Keep dreaming Twins fans! 77-85 at very best this year, then scuttleing all the good players in 2010 as we turn into the Pirates of the American League!
zzzzzzzzzzz
Gardy 6-16 in playoff games if you count the horrific 1-0 loss to Chicago last year. But blame that on the coin toss Gardy and not the fact your team is lacking in power hitting. As long as small ball is the theme, no World Series Championship for the Twins ever again!
Morgan ensberg, for example, would be a nice flyer.
sane,
you forgot to add Punto, Winfree, Brock Peterson, Redmond, Morales, Pridie and Cuddyer to the “people with experience at 3B” list. That makes them 16 
the point is that the FO is doing nothing (not even the little things they did for pitching) to address the lack of a right hand power hitting third baseman. But sure this team needed another light hitting fast outfielder (Matos) because he might get higher in the depth chart than the other 4 invited (Gomez, Span, Pridie, Martin)
that’s the point
Just more proof that the Twins are going to ride this new ballpark as long as the fans will fill the seats by spending as little a possible. Don’t be fooled when they say they’ll try to make a World Series run.
thrylos, pretty much any catcher in the organization with a pulse gets an invite. They need all they can get when pitchers and catchers report so they have enough to catch all the pitchers’ workouts. Catchers are also just about the last guys “sent down” before they break camp because they don’t want Mauer and Redmond to have to catch every inning of the last week’s ST games.
Has nothing to do with need, really.
Sane,
Of the 10 guys you’ve mentioned who have experience at third base only 2 have legitimate major league experience. Punto and Harris. Neither of these players should make twins fans comfortable. Punto’s stats are up and down every year so maybe this year he’s back to the neighborhood of hitting .220 with 1 homerun. Harris is a better average guy but again don’t count on being over .270 and 10 homeruns. Buscher again wont add any power to a team that arguably wins the division last year with one power guy. I don’t see how that fact can make anyone feel comfortable with returning the same team to the field this year. There are still two guys out there who can add pop to this team, Wigginton and Crede. With Crede you can probably offer him a low base salary with large incentives for playing many games and just as important producing.
I sure was hoping they’d have seventeen players in camp with experience at 3B.-
Eeyore
I can’t imagine a minor league free agent 3B available at this time being any better than Valencia… or Buscher… or Harris.
Tony Blanco .323/.385/.587 23 HR, 88 RBI in 390 AB with Tulsa at Texas league (AA).
not sure that he is “better” but has more pop on his bat and is a RH.
As a reminder Valencia was .289/.334/.485 last year at AA, Buscher’s career high in HRs in the minors is 14 and Harris’ 17 (but that was in the PCL)
Would have been a better choice than Matos or the retread never been pitchers they invited.
In fact… I would argue that in a situation like this, where you really aren’t sure who your starting 3B is going to be, you bring FEWER of them to camp than you might otherwise because you want to get as many reps (not to mention ABs and innings in the field during ST games) as possible for those guys you feel have a legitimate chance to be your starting 3B this year.
You don’t waste a lot of time with guys who have no chance just because you want to see what they look like or because they might be an option 4 years from now… which is something you CAN afford to do with outfielders, catchers and firstbasemen, since you pretty much know who’s going north with you already.
The WBC, in theory, is great. But, if it screws up player development and conditioning for the upcoming year, than it is a waste of time. So… bottom line don’t care
thrylos- they signed Matos as a roster filler at AAA, a la Darnell McDonald. What’s so wrong about extending the man the professional courtesy of a sring training invitation?
But blame that on the coin toss Gardy and not the fact your team is lacking in power hitting.
I don’t recall Gardy ever blaming the coin toss.
Twins fans on the other hand…
[…] Twins Insider – […]
JC,
Your 3:26 PM post is totally on target.
I’d be on board with playing the WBC in Nov/Dec. Give us something better than the Winter Meetings to talk about. It wouldn’t affect guys getting ready for the following season and any minor injuries could heal before ST.
Football, basketball (college and pros), and hockey.
When does the NFL hold pointless exhibitions? They have training camp and preseason…
I play 3rd for 5 years 128 million
Purple Vader,
Go back and f### up the Vikings like you normally do.
Leave the job of f##king up the Twins to us professionals.
T,
football = soccer
The World Cup is the pointless exhibition of which we speak.
Didn’t Winfree have 3rd base experience?
Anyway, I hope Slama get’s a look. The guy should have gone to NB last year. He’s getting relatively old as a college pitcher in the minors, his numbers have been excellent and we certainly are in need of a setup type arm. He seems to be that type of pitcher. Delaney too though both had terrible seasons in the AFL.
Two points:
The WBC is not so much different, OK, quite a bit different than the World Cup in soccer. However, season where players play on their professional teams in whatever fall/winter, is totally different than the world cup, summer.
Is this the biggest news we can hear? Inviting 15 non roster players to camp? Bill Smith is really annoying me
You bring Matos in for a couple of weeks in the MLB camp for a simple reason.
When Gomez and Span crash in to one another and are both going to be out for a couple of weeks, Gardy is going to ask Smith who’s available to call up… and Smith is going to say “Matos is looking good”.
Then Gardy will say, “We looked at him in ST and he looked good/sucked”. Either way, there’s some level of familiarity.
The invites are not all (or even mostly) about guys they expect to earn a position in April.
The World Cup is the pointless exhibition of which we speak.
Ah. My bad. 
Kevin: Well, I suppose LEN3 could post some more entries about who the Twins have been in talks with…but people would just spend the whole time calling it lies and not moving any discussion along.
“Is this the biggest news we can hear? Inviting 15 non roster players to camp?”
In BIGGER news, the economy is in the toilet and we will all soon be jobless.
On a lighter note………
I would argue that in a situation like this, where you really aren’t sure who your starting 3B is going to be…
The Twins aren’t sure who their starting 3b is going to be in 2009?
Who from that group is going to take the position away from Harris/Buscher?
Invite me 4 years $103 million
sane:
Get a life. Or get back to work - whichever.
“Who from that group is going to take the position away from Harris/Buscher?”
Who, from that group, will be available when Harris/Buscher give it away?
jim,
Got a life.
Retired.
smith call citi bank they are selling everything off maybe they have a good 3b on one of their softball teams you can get cheap.
The Twins have become very very good at being “NOT QUITE GOOD ENOUGH.” Count on the Twins finishing a close second or third in 2009. They will be only good enought to keep the fans interested and the total team salaries as low as possible. However, there is one bright spot, the Twins will remain the Major League’s best source for obtainable underpaid players.
“Who from that group is going to take the position away from Harris/Buscher?”
Who, from that group, will be available when Harris/Buscher give it away?
Good point, Sane.
I’m not sure which of those statements makes Smith look worse, by the way. 
I was speaking of NFL football as a pointless exhibition, namely that we don’t need 4 exhibition games, especially considering that most starters will only play a series in that 4th game. Owners like preseason games because they get ticket and concession revenue, TV stations like them because they get to show live football instead of summer re-runs, and the media likes them, because they get to write analysis on third-string linebackers and practice squad OT’s, rather than have to work for a story.
Case in point that the exhibition season is pointless? The 0-16 Detroit Lions were 4-0 in the pre-season.
“Gardy 6-16 in playoff games if you count the horrific 1-0 loss to Chicago last year. But blame that on the coin toss Gardy and not the fact your team is lacking in power hitting.”
Purple Vader, I think you could attribute a 1-0 loss to the other guy’s pitcher having a great game as well. It’s also worth noting that the White Sox had a wait-for-the-homer lineup last year, but only managed to score 1 run. Arguing that having another power hitter in the lineup for that game would’ve meant victory is ridiculous.
well, since predictions are being made let me make mine…last year I predicted the Twins to finsh a couple of games above .500 (83 wins). This year I predict 88 wins and a 2nd place finish without an upgrade at 3b and relief and 92 with a 1st place finish with a good upgrade…for whatever it is worth.
USAFChief, I would imagine the Twins are open to the possibilities of either Harris or Buscher claiming the job full time.
Regardless, they’re going to want to give those guys more reps and more ABs and more innings in ST than they will care to give players they know have positions locked up.
doesn’t smith have to have some kind of deal for a 3b in the works? i just can’t see banking on a buscher/harris combo making the team better.
You bring Matos in for a couple of weeks in the MLB camp for a simple reason.
When Gomez and Span crash in to one another and are both going to be out for a couple of weeks, Gardy is going to ask Smith who’s available to call up… and Smith is going to say “Matos is looking good”.
There is already Pridie and Dustin Martin in the team to fill these roles and Hughes, Peterson and Winfree could all fill in the corner outfield positions, not to mention there will be 5 outfielders already in the 25 man roster…
ok so i play 3rd for 3 years $78 million
“i just can’t see banking on a buscher/harris combo making the team better.”
so ggg, you adhere to the theory that self-improvement is impossible?
I was speaking of NFL football as a pointless exhibition, namely that we don’t need 4 exhibition games,
MLB already has an equivelant to NFL exhibition games…it’s called 30 spring training games.
The WBC is completely different. It’d be like if the NFL scheduled an international tournament in late July and took NFL players out of camp to do it, and then resumed the exhibition games after the tournament was over.
Whether or not the NFL NEEDS four preseason games (or MLB needs 30 spring training games) is another issue altogether.
The preseason is pointless for about 80% of the rosters that are settled before a single ball is thrown or kicked. For the rest of the 20% of a roster is nothing but pointless.
Its always nice to see how fair weather many Twins fans are. Its also amusing how so uptight many of them get if we don’t do something right this minute and placate the masses. I have faith in the FO - Smith was hand selected by the same Terry Ryan who helped bring the Twins out of obscurity. I envision them signing Crede in early to mid-February to an incentive laden contract (1yr) and see if he can handle things. Maybe even a 1yr with team option or option picked up dependent on games played and ABs. They will also get one of those bullpen arms to solidify the bullpen and perhaps trade one or more of our “6th” starters for minor league depth for the left side of the infield and middle bullpen. Have patience.
And don’t compare the NFL to MLB. There is no comparison to be made.
Its always nice to see how fair weather many Twins fans are.
I think that you are confusing frustration with the way the team is managed with supporting the team. The 2 things are not conflicting. For example, one can support their country no matter what, but that does not prevent them from not liking (and being vocal about it) the way it is run.
It would not be ideal, but a Buscher/Harris platoon is not the end of the world. They could very conceivably have net stats at 3B of .270, 12-15 HR and 80-90 RBI between them…and I feel that is pretty conservative. Not bad for the 7 hole.
That statement was related to these blogs in general…not just this one.
They could very conceivably have net stats at 3B of .270, 12-15 HR and 80-90 RBI between them
12-15 HR would be very difficult. Harris’ career high is 12 in 137 games and Buscher’s is 4 in 70 games. If the third base job is handed to Harris 90% of the time he could possibly get those numbers. Give Buscher more than 20% of the plate appearances and it is not happening.
In Buscher’s defense, you have a very small sample size to look at. He had moderate power in the minors and also has very good gap power (which can easily translate to higher HR numbers) and could very well get 6 in those 70 games. Harris could also get 6+ in the leftover 90 games, which he has proven he can do in the past. I think those stats are very realistic…
Now defense…that is another argument!
dan g, imo both harris and buscher are what they are. they are both in their prime yrs not 22-23 on the way up. just don’t see them making some kind of major jump in production at this stage of their careers. been wrong before, however.
“12-15 HR would be very difficult. Harris’ career high is 12 in 137 games and Buscher’s is 4 in 70 games. If the third base job is handed to Harris 90% of the time he could possibly get those numbers. Give Buscher more than 20% of the plate appearances and it is not happening.”
Unless you subscribe to the theory that maybe with some MLB experience under his belt, Buscher might be a better hitter, as well as fielder this year.
I think that Delaney or Slama will be for our BP this year what Neshek was for the 06 BP and what Mijares was for the very late 08 year. All this talk about the twins should go outside the org to fix the problem/deficiencies could all blow up in our faces.
Look if the Twins trade Young for Kouz that would be terrible. If they trade Slowey and Span for Atkins that would be terrible. If they give away a bunch of young talents(Revere ect) for Beltre that would be terrible. Signing Wiggs could blow up in our faces like the Lamb thing did(not likely but could).
We know that the team we have right know is competitive barring injury to M&M and our top three starters, so why complain?
If we’re lucky, Guerrier bombs in spring training and unexpected opening is given to Delaney(never happen). More likely Guerrier will be the new Rincon and we’ll have to suffer until the all-star break watching him be horribly ineffective. Never fear Gardy and company will bring some one good from the minors to replace matty about two weeks after all the die hard fans had to go to their doctors and beg for Xanex!
I can hit 25 homers in the leftover 90 games if you platoon me an buscher. That would be good for more Manny Time.
I don’t think Guerrier is going to be the next Rincon. Rincon’s stuff fell of the earth when his numbers declined. Guerrier was still sitting 92-94 with that good slider and nasty curveball.
“dan g, imo both harris and buscher are what they are. they are both in their prime yrs not 22-23 on the way up. just don’t see them making some kind of major jump in production at this stage of their careers”
GGG, from a physical standpoint I agree with you. I think Harris has probably plateaud, and will not continue to improve. However, I think as Buscher gains MLB experience, he will learn to identify pitches and pitchers, and become better at selecting the right pitch. That is, I think his mental approach to the game will improve, leading to increased production.
I hope I’m wrong about Guerrier and that he’s not done. I as a fan of course don’t want him to ruin another season. I don’t even want him to get the chance to lose any games for us if he doesn’t look sharp in ST. My opinion is that he should have been shelved or released last year after the final west coast swing.
My criteria for a regime change away from Harris/Buscher:
1)RH power hitter capable of protecting Morneau
2) better than average defense
3) No trade involving Baker, Liriano, Slowey, or Young
That seems to limit the possibilities to Beltre and….
That seems to limit the possibilities to Beltre and….
Glaus and Rolen
if you are ok with just better defense than Buscher, you can add Wigginton, Mora and maybe Encarnacion
If Crede is healthy a better option, no players get traded. low risk, high reward. Platoon with
Buscher and help his back out.
Twins win!
thrylos, it’s very questionable (doubtful?) that Rolen or Glaus project as better than average, middle of the order hitters at this stage, isn’t it? Are either really a huge upgrade?
And no, I for one am not interested in slightly better defense, or some other partial solution. We have a partial solution in place with Harris/Buscher, so why spend resources for an unsure and small incremental improvement that probably won’t change the final results for the season? Either solve the problem completely or leave it alone until a better solution can be found.
Glaus hit .270/.372/.483 29 HR and 99 RBI last season. He is a solid middle of the lineup hitter and just 31. Rolen has been hurt the past couple of years but has 7 gold gloves…
Greg,
Maybe the thought that Crede is getting over a chronic back condition that has persisted for some time is wishful thinking. If it wasn’t, don’t you think some team would have upped the ante for him by now?
thrylos, you might be right about Glaus in particular. Is he an option? Cost?
I think as Buscher gains MLB experience, he will learn to identify pitches and pitchers, and become better at selecting the right pitch. That is, I think his mental approach to the game will improve, leading to increased production.
Wouldn’t it be just as likely that as the pitchers he faces ‘gain MLB’ experience they will also improve their mental approach, leaving Buscher with the same production?
The problem with Buscher is, even if he does hit enough to justify a semi-regular spot in the lineup–which is not a given–he’s so bad defensively he still hurts you.
And no, I for one am not interested in slightly better defense, or some other partial solution.
“Slightly better” would’ve worked out pretty well last year, IMO.
USAF, what was last year’s alternative to Harris/Buscher?
thrylos,
I know you can back up your position regarding Glaus with stats. I watched him for a full year when he was in AZ. When runners were on the bags or in high pressure situations, more often then not he would strike out on breaking ball pitches. It seemed he got most of his rbi’s on his homeruns with nothing on the line or in blow out games.
I believe there is a reason why Rolen and Glaus were traded for each other. Because neither team wanted the player they had and neither did any other team in baseball.
Bill Smith better got off his hands and get a third baseman or I for one will not give up my hard earned money to watch this team struggle but not quite be able to get over the hump because of their unwillingness to get in the game and make a deal that will help this team…
Janet, that’s been my intuition, that projecting forward, most GMs may no longer regard either Glaus or Rolen as worth the money as 5-hole hitters or as defenders. But my intuition may not be reliable either.
and Glaus won’t come to Minnesota. He isn’t going to play on the turf that he blames for hurting him one full season.
Yes, when Glaus was traded to Toronto he had to have his contract extended to waive his no trade clause.
So, based on the criteria in my 4:50pm post,with the clarification that .280 and 25-30 HRs is a good indication of a superior RH power hitter, who besides Beltre, assuming the Mariners become reasonable and so does Boras, are available options for a 3B upgrade this off-season for our much-maligned GM?
I’ll be interested to see Gosling - I remember when the Twins drafted him in 1998, took a flier in the mid-rounds because he was going to Stanford and would be a tough sign, and sure enough they weren’t able to sign him. Baseball America called him “the one that got away” that draft I believe. He did end up as a 2nd rounder and he’s posted numbers that are far from horrid. He may be a lefty option from the pen.
bird,
Joe Crede’s last healthy year (2006) he hit .283, 30-94.
I haven’t seen Mora play much, nor do I know his contract status, but he intrigues me.
I say get Wiggs if the market for him doesn’t prove strong and his demands drop. Otherwise lets rock with what we got and see what these kids are really made of!
I would love mora at third for us…but it aint gonna happen!
sane, why do you think he’s receiving so little interest? Don’t you think his injury might now be a chronic problem, and is thus causing pause to GMs?
Janet, is Mora enough of an upgrade in your opinion to deal Blackburn and another top 20 prospect for him (to throw out random cost thoughts)?
Mora reminds me of Figgins with less speed and more pop.
Mora’s good enough to trade even up for Cuddy! HaHa
And do you really want someone named Melvin on the roster?
sane…
Exactly, Crede’s last healthy season was in 2006. Not saying it’s impossible for him to be healthy again but it’s unlikely.
From mlb trade rumors site:
The latest on the Giants and free agent third baseman Joe Crede, courtesy of Henry Schulman:
Source tells me the Giants are on the “fringes” of talks for Crede, who can be had for a one-year deal.
There hasn’t been much buzz this winter on Crede, who is represented by Scott Boras. The Twins, Angels, Rangers, Astros, and Brewers are other clubs that could be considered unsettled at the hot corner.
Whelp…there’s your 1-year stopgag. Whether he would want to spend half that year in the Dome, who knows.
But, hey, who cares. Buscher is just bound to improve right?? Instead of throwing into the second row, he will lower his throws to the first row seats.
bird,
I’d say that any back problem has the risk of becoming chronic.
And Scott Boras is definitely a chronic problem if not a one-man epidemic.
Our Defense on the left side of the infield would be pretty solid with Punto at SS and Harris at 3B. Reminds me of Scott Leius and Gagne. Everyone forgets that in 91 we had a less then spectacular 3B platoon of a Leius and Pags.
Buscher/Pags= Good contact hitting lefty with no power.
Leius/Harris= Natural SS moved to 3B has some pop and good glove.
When I say Harris has some pop I mean he’s capable of 50+ extra-base hits.
I like Blackburn alot, I wouldn’t want to part with him. I believe the Orioles need a left fielder. Brian Roberts is in the last year of his contract, and they will probably trade him at the deadline, because he will not re-sign. So we do have outfield and pitching depth, and to replace Roberts with a Macri type.
I would trade Blackburn even up for Beltre if he waived his NTC and agreed to a 2nd year at $10M.
Trade for a second baseman Casilla can’t hit or field.
The advantage the Twins have inviting these guys to spring training is the wealth of instruction opportunities available.Bert and Anderson for the pitchers and Molly,Carew,Killer,Tony O, and Steinbach for the hitters.Molly and Carew will be invaluable teaching Go-Go, Casilla,Span and even Punto how to bunt and steal bases.
birdoprey-Be a birdoprey and get the Beltre trade done.Of course,we all know that BS and the FO would drop the ball!
“sane says:January 14th, 2009 at 3:35 pm “T,football = soccer” “The World Cup is the pointless exhibition of which we speak.”
sane,
I guess that depends on your definition of pointless.
I think it is the most watched sporting competition in the World and dwarfs the Super Bowl.
As an aside, personally I find it unfortunate that it is played ONLY every 4 years, as the last two have been a financial BONANZA
Regards,
2008: 81(+/-)2=INCORRECT
Still think that the only way Busher, makes the team is, more power out of him, this year. otherwise I think it will be tolly/haris, Shazel,, Gardy is the one lost that final west coast swing late last summer, by the way he handled the pichers,in that trip, remember it well,
squad still hasnt found a legit #3 hitter. bullpen is a mess. 80-82 in ‘09. does 3rd place get paid? gardy cant handle a staff. 1 true power threat and he disappeared on sept1 last yr
Remember, the way for the Twins to prove their done signing stopgap aging veterans is to sign Joe Crede.
…an aging, stopgap veteran.
shazel says:January 14th, 2009 at 6:15 pm “Mora’s good enough to trade even up for Cuddy! HaHa”
Where does Cuddy fit in with the Orioles? Center and Right are locked down. Luke Scott probably a fixture in left as well.
Regards,
youre going to get that new ballpark shoved down your throat all summer long. the less of a factor the boys are in the AL Central, the more theyre going to dial it up.dont kno who’s a bigger homer, bremer with twins or greenlay with wild.. sad thing is.. i enjoy both of them
If they go via Free Agency, their best option is Ty Wigginton.
If they go vai trade, the best “option” is Adrian Beltre. Though that option will be a tough one to exercise. As they have to overcome not only a FO that’s overvaluing one year of Beltre, and an NTC that may make negotiating an extended contract rather difficult.
If I’m the Twins, and I can get Beltre over here with a package starting with Slowey or Perkins and supplemented with minor leaguers…then I’m willing to talk. However, I do not agree to any deal that doesn’t also grant me a window in which to extend Beltre’s contract. Because if I’m giving up what is likely to be some good young talent, it better damn well be for more than a year of improvement at 3B.
If I get Beltre at the table, I start with 3 years, and see what he’s expecting annually. I’d offer to pay him more in his first few years, and then drop that going into his third year…indicating that it would give not only the Twins more payroll flexibility as their young guys grow up, but also to make him more attractive to other clubs should the Twins find themselves needing to deal him at some point.
I would try to avoid a full NTC, and would instead offer him some kind of flexible NTC for maybe a handful of teams. Which he cannot change without my approval. (So he doesn’t pull what he did against the Twins….and tie my hands should I attempt to deal him)
I should be more specific, I wouldn’t “drop” Beltre’s pay. I’d take what he’s looking for and front load it some (since the Twins have more flexibility now than they may later).
As far as the NTC goes, I’d allow him to renegotiate the teams once per season, preferably BEFORE the season starts, but no later than June 1st. (This gives me two months to figure out a trade partner)
T, I’m with you Wigginton. I heard the Orioles like him, but only for a 1-year deal.
Where do you see him going, and for how long/how much?? (I’m excluding the Twins as an option).
I meant, with you on Wigginton, not calling you Wigginton per se…
Anywhoo, Wiggy wants a multi-year deal. I can’t for the life of me come up with the likely team to land him.
Actually…mmmmmmmm. Maybe the Rangers would be a good spot for Wiggy. He could DH for them if there is no spot in the field.
Why not Beltre? Give him an extended contract, he might like to play in a brand spanking new stadium in his second and third year. Twins may not have to give as much as expected the closer it gets to Spring Training time.
jku: Wiggy would likely take “Blake money” at this point for 3 years minimum.
Hey folks:
Speaking of available 3rd basemen, I see the Pirates are releasing Doug MEN-KAY-VICH, and further, that Doug-the Glove had been preparing to play some….you guessed it…….3B!!!!!!
The Twins problems are now solved…..Doug the Glove at 3B, slapping the ball all over the field, to the tune of .247BA, with 1 Hr and 58 RBI’s in 400 at-bats. Stud. With that power line, our 3B woes are settled for at least 10 years. Wo-hooh!
But who would likely give Wiggy that “Blake money” at this point I wonder??
I just haven’t heard of anybody having any interest in giving him something like that. Of course, there’s still time, but I’m just intrigued by what team(s) makes the most sense for him and what they could put up.
The Twins were apparently interested in Wiggy for Blake Money, but were under the impression he wanted more than that.
Now that times gone by and the best rumor we’ve heard recently is 1-year, I would expect he’d be more open to Blake Money if it meant having a job for a few years.
Apparently the Twins FO was right in their assessment of Wigginton’s worth.
Great idea, rayreiner! Dougie Baseball is even more allergic to RBIs than LNP.
Careful where you mention Dougie…you may inadvertantly summon Jason.
Just heard a chain saw…
T,
The market is the assessment of Wigginton’s worth.
T, are you not a big fan of Slowey? Do you think comparisons to Maddox are premature?
rich hill out of options– we should trade for him. Also, Morgan ensberg is available. Last year I said we should grab mcpherson; he hit 42 HR in AAA. Ensberg could do some damage for cheap. Worth a shot.
Sign Orlando Hudson cheap, like 3 years 12-15 mil. Move Casilla to SS. It would be worth giving up our #24 (or whatever it is) pick to have a solid middle infield for the prime of the Mauer/Morenau years.
To not do it so that we can pick this years’ Trevor Ploufe is silly.
Dragon,
I recognize the world-wide popularity of soccer. However, as a baseball guy, we battle soccer for field usage all year and have a extremely heated relationship.
We insult each other’s sport, which is a sport in itself. (probably more competitive than baseball or soccer)
So my comment was just another cheap shot in that war.
One of my favorite insults is saying that “soccer is a sport played in Third World countries where they can’t afford baseball equipment”.
I actually respect soccer, but it is more fun to insult it.
Morgan Ensberg resigned with the Yankees on a minor league deal with an invite to ST.
sane and Dragon-with all due respect,this a baseball blog.Most of us are enlighted by your baseball knowledge.There are other sites for other sports.
Orlando Hudson? Was that the guy who played Winston in Ghostbusters?
Bet the Twins wouldn’t give Wiggs much more than Punto money. 3yrs 15mil tops. I don’t think he’ll get anywhere near Blake money. There just doesn’t seem to be any demand for his services. Which shouldn’t be all that surprising since he’s been released by multiple teams.
Andruw Jones will be leaving Los Angeles on Thursday.
In a prearranged deal done about two weeks ago, Jones and the Dodgers agreed to a separation Jan. 15 for the center fielder. If the team isn’t able to trade him (and there’s no reason to think they will be able to do it in the next 24 hours), the Dodgers will give Jones his release.
As stipulated in the agreement, Jones agreed to defer all but $5 million of his $22 million salary in 2009 in exchange for his freedom. It’s believed that if he can find a taker willing to pay $1-to-2 million, the move is expected to turn into basically a financial wash for Jones, who knew his time was up in L.A.
Bet the Twins wouldn’t give Wiggs much more than Punto money. 3yrs 15mil tops. I don’t think he’ll get anywhere near Blake money.
Considering that their initial offer was “Blake Money” I would gladly take that bet.
Six years later, Bartolo Colon is returning to the South Side, SI.com has confirmed.
Pending a physical, the White Sox and Colon have agreed to a one-year contract. The deal was first reported by FOXsports.com.
Colon, 35, started seven games for the Red Sox last season, going 4-2 with a 3.92 ERA.
I hope Barney, Goober and Floyd don’t get to depressed over not getting the call. The Mayberry Pub and Grub will be full of depressed players, who once again have had there dreams crushed.
Have a beer on me boys!
HAVE FUN!!! GO TWINS!!!
Do you suppose John Castino would consider a comeback?
I sure can’t wait for that outdoor baseball stadium to be finished. It sure would be fun on a day like today
sane & GENO,
Baseball & Soccer, My 2 main sporting interests.
Twins 50+ years, AFC Wimbledon 7 years. The sports overlap PERFECTLY. Twins play April (mid-Feb with ST) through Sept/Oct., Euro Soccer Mid-August thru late April/early May.
Twins as a lifelong fan, Wimbledon as voting member of Fan owned team (currently 6th level in England…3 promotions in 6 seasons, currently 2nd in League).
My soccer interest has taught me patience. In baseball, stat’s seem paramount to fans decisions, soccer being less stat’s based, observation helps determine current form and expectations.
Money rules both sports at the highest level, in Baseball the World Series has a more random possibility of non-$$$ team winning the Championship, Soccer with promotion/relegation, Cup competitions, etc, offer far more opportunities for lesser monied teams to achieve some level of success without winning the League.
GENO, I will attempt to leave soccer to the side Although, I like the fact that in soccer, the BAD teams have incentive to improve or be relegated, in baseball, if you are woeful long enough, like the Rays, even by accident, you may acquire enough talent to compete at the highest level.
Regards,
Caveat above
T, do we know that the Twins offered Wigginton “Blake money”? My recollection is that the word coming out of Twinstown was that they weren’t pursuing him because they had heard he wanted “more than Blake money.” I’m too lazy to go back and find the articles at the time.
Funny thing is that I remember the Astros saying when they let him go that they’d love to keep him but didn’t feel their payroll could handle what he’d get in arbitration… but that they hoped to have the opportunity to talk to him about returning later in the offseason. Everyone kind of laughed because they assumed he would get signed for decent money rather quickly.
Right now, I wouldn’t bet against the Astros getting him back for a lot less money than he would have cost them before. I don’t think the Twins (or anyone else) are going to go anywhere near what Blake is getting from the Dodgers for Wigginton at this point.
Heck, if Blake had decided to wait things out, I’m not sure he would have gotten “Blake money.” The guys who had decent early offers and took them are the fortunate few this year.
the Dragon I still love watching the videos of the people jumping up and down and the stands falling over in soccer. I wonder what it would be like to watch Scottland vs Ireland or England vs Scottland in a game.
JC: You’re right in regards to the wording. My interpretation was that the Twins were looking at that amount of money as their cap for his services.
Also: http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2009/01/astros-could-be.html
It’s possible the ‘Stros don’t really care about getting him back.
If a team like Houston or the Orioles offers Wiggy a one-year deal, I’d like to think the Twins would come over the top of that with at least a second year.
“Baseball & Soccer, My 2 main sporting interests.
Twins 50+ years, AFC Wimbledon 7 years. The sports overlap PERFECTLY. Twins play April (mid-Feb with ST) through Sept/Oct., Euro Soccer Mid-August thru late April/early May.”
You and me both - nothing better than getting up early on Sat. and getting a 5-game fix in before noon, with that 3-game flip around 9am. Setanta and FSC = awesomeness. Love me the English and Scottish leagues.
I thought Wimbledon = MK Dons now, is that wrong?
As I tell my soccer fan friends;
I ‘d rather watch two people fish.
T that was Ernie Hudson. Do you think they might ever make a Ghostbusters 3?
“sane says:
January 15th, 2009 at 9:26 am
As I tell my soccer fan friends;
I ‘d rather watch two people fish”
I would rather watch womens tennis. Im luvin it with those outfits. Uh hum back to baseball
Steve H: You’ve just summoned my inner nerd.
There isn’t a new Ghostbusters movie in the works, but from what I understand…the new Ghostbusters video game is supposed to be what they’d want in a 3rd movie.
Reports are that all the stars are going to be doing the voice work (Murray, Akroyd, Ramis…even Hudson)
Whoops - never mind about AFC Wimbledon = MK Dons, quite the controversy there - sorry.
I would rather watch womens golf then soccer.
I would rather watch Kerry Walsh and Misty May play beach volleyball
jimmy bee=soccer hooligan
jhawk90,
You are correct that Wimbledon FC(WFC) = MK Dons aka Franchise Scum.
The FA (football Association) allowed WFC to move to Milton Keynes, a 1st in UK history (which was not due to a merger). 2 days after the decision, the WFC supporters started their own club and began our assult on the pyramid at what is now Level 9.
During the fight against the move, I was quoted indirectly in several London newspapers. (My 15 minutes of fame).
GENO, I really do promise
Regards,
Mud wrestling here…
“MudCat says:
January 15th, 2009 at 9:33 am
jimmy bee=soccer hooligan”
jimmy bee=jimmy bee
jimmy bee=ric flair
All for now. Sorry to dissapoint
This is America and it’s not allowed to enjoy soccer unless Beckham is playing.
“birdofprey says:
January 15th, 2009 at 9:36 am
Mud wrestling here…”
Jello wrestling???
jimmy bee,
UK soccer, and I suspect Euro soccer= excess alcohol.
Soccer tends to be community based, rather than metropolitan area based as US professional sports. Other than NY in Hockey with 3 teams, I believe 2 is max number of teams in any US Sport.
In England Premiership, 5 of the 20 teams are based in Greater London.
Also, due to geography, a decent percentage of any teams supporters go to away games. Typical of this is the plans of which pub, pubs to congregate at pre-game to tank up before going and “singing” to/for ones side for 90 minutes.
Regards,
Did anyone ever see that video of John Daly playing a round of golf for charity with no shirt on drunk. Strange stuff out there.
Sorry, but women’s tennis is always entertaining for some reason.
I love womens Tennis
“jimmy bee says:
I love womens Tennis”
I didn’t know that you played womens Tennis.
I don’t sy I just watch it
So when are the Twins going to make a move on 3rd baseman? I am getting worried that the Twins FO is just a few excuses away from starting the season with what we have right now. the Dragon is a betting individual. What are the chances or odds that the Twins will get anyone else in FA or via trade
Jimmy bee,
Have NO CLUE of the odds.
Way back in October, I predicted trade rather than FA.
I’m not convinced anything is needed, AND I don’t make those decisions.
FA odds 2-1 against (-150)
Trade odds 3/2 against
Nothing 1-1
I wouldn’t book those odds, NOR bet them
Regards,
I love the enthusiasm Maria Sharapova puts into it, or maybe it’s just the grunting.
BC of ND,
Yes.
I also watch Maria Sharapova closely.
Especially her enthusiasm and grunting.
Those were my two favorite features of Anna Kournikova, also.
Did I not sound sincere?
sane I got to agree that the effort with the groaning really shows the competetive nature of the sport.
I was watching women’s tennis one time. Somebody in the other room could only hear it…and mistook it for something else.
Maria Sharapova?? Wow, this blog has been reduced to this. What an offseason.
So, the off season is so boring we’re reduced to talking about women’s tennis? Oy. Anyone remember Gabriela Sabitini?
JIMMYBEE:
Who is more fun to watch, the Williams sisters or the Williams Wall?
Anyone remember Les Straker?
T,
That’s a great cover for watching “alternative” television!
“Oh no dear!
“Its just women’s tennis!”
MudCat Williams wall is more entertaining for me personally. Williams sisters make me think of DY in drag. I am more of a Sharapova, Anna Kournikova, Hingis fan
Alternative TV and women’s tennis both have a lot of girl/girl action.
Ah, Les Straker. 1987. What a year.
So, Boneyard, who’d you rather have as a #3 starter, Straker or Slowey?
…OK, back to thoughts about tennis and jello wrestling…
JB, please don’t EVER bring up imagery of DY in drag. EVER.
I’ll bet the Williams sisters could hit a baseball farther then half the Twins lineup.
birdofprey,
“who’d you rather have as a #3 starter, Straker or Slowey?”
My vote is for Slowey, because he is younger.
I’d take Slowey any day, birdofprey. But I’d also take Gaetti over the vaunted platoon of Harris/Buscher.
Well, brining up th eimage of DY in drag is one way to clear a blog.
Straker would be pitching with 20 years between starts.
I still contend if TK leaves Straker in, Twins win game 3.
Ah, Gabby Sabatini. All that and talent ta boot. If only Graf wasn’t around to ugly things up for you, so to speak…
Boneyard, you appear to be a little rattled at 10:46.
No one has seen nor heard from Straker since that fateful game 3 day when TK prematurely pulled him.
Tracy Austin hearts Gabby.
Boneyard, my vote is Harris and Buscher over Gaetti. They’re younger.
man, I cannot believe how boring the Twins talk has gotten, that we’ve “sunk” to this topic.
There are also several good reasons to watch women’s golf these days.
On a serious note, I find women’s tennis more entertaining than mens’, regardless of the fringe benefits. Actual hitting of the ball back and forth is much better than 120 mph serves that aren’t returned.
And I struggled picking Harris/Buscher over Gaetti.
Graff was pretty uuuuuugly
Martina was no prize either.
jimmybee she wasn’t the cutest girl but man she had a killer body.
Mudcat, I was multi-tasking. I’m not good at it, either.
Wow, this blog has been reduced to this. What an offseason.
You should see the regular season. During games even.
I think one time we were discussing quantum physics and the possibilities of time travel.
No joke.
BC of ND I googled up a pic of Amelie Mauresmo and nearly threw up on my keyboard she is by far the ugliest tennis player. Uglier then Graf
Interesting line of thought. Going into the season how did 87 Twins compare to 2009 Twins?
Liriano vs Viola? I would take Liriano. I would take Liriano. Previous 2 seasons Viola had slightly better than .500 record and mid 4 ERA
Baker vs. Blyleven I would take Baker who had a pretty good year in 2008 and is on the rise. Blyleven coming off 2 ave years with 4+ ERA. Some could make the arguement he was the aging retread veteran at the time.
Slowey vs Straker Straker wasn’t bad but I would give the edge to Slowey as well.
Blackburn vs Smithson Smithson had a lousy 1987 but without knowing you would probably say it was a toss up or slight edge to Blackburn
Perkins over aging Niekro.
I did not go over the history with the bull pen but I would take Nathan over Rierdon.
You could go through the lineups and get similar results. Obvious advantages of Puckett and Gaetti over 2009. Probably would go with Bruno in right though personally I always thought his stats were inflated with the less meaningfull homers when the Twins were up or down by a bunch. In contrast to Gaetti and Puckett and Randy Bush who seemed to get theirs when it counted most. Big advantage to Mauer. I would go with big advantage to Morneau as well though Herbie was the best fielding 1st baseman I have ever seen. Obviously we all have fond memories of 87 but that was their breakout year and they still won fewer in the season, socred fewer and gave up more than the 08 squad.
Des how bout this. I would take the 1987 WS Championship team over these current Twins whom didn’t even make the playoffs this year
Of course, after they won it all, but you wouldnt have taken them over this squad in January of 87
Des, I think you’re right in that the current staff is deeper and stronger than the ‘87 staff, although I’m not sure we currently have a set up guy as good as Berenguer. Positionally, though, in addition to the huge advantages at 3B and CF, Gagne was a better everyday SS than Punto and I’m not so sure I wouldn’t give the edge to Gladden in LF. Morneau does get the nod a 1B, but I wouldn’t say that was a big advantage (I believe Hrbek hit 34 dingers that year). The ‘87 squad was built (inadvertently, maybe) for a short series in that the rotation wasn’t deep, but there was talent at the top and the lineup could mash.
Found this on a Women’s Tennis Blog but I’m not going there. She used to date the Viking’s Brian McKinnie:
http://www.sportsviews.com/blog/10474/Serena_Williamss_photoshoot_for_h_magazine
“There are also several good reasons to watch women’s golf these days.”
I can think of two - Natalie Gulbis.
Des, yes I would have taken the ‘87 squad in January of ‘87 over the current bunch. Don’t forget the ‘87 squad was a lot better defensively than the current unit.
Thelma Lou. Uh hum let me repeat myself here quickly for you. The Williams sisters look like Dy in drag.
Aw, jimmy bee, not again. Excuse me . . .
Boneyard, I agree that a lot of the positions would be up for debate. How about this? If this blog existed pre season 1987 posters would be talking about how we had a catcher that couldn’t hit his weight, a very weak hitting 2nd baseman. A 250 hitting shortstop, an average left fielder who shouldn’t be batting leadoff. No team speed. A rotation without a true ace and no depth. The general consensus would be that the team would be lucky to win 75 games and that they need to spend millions to take the team to the next level. The next level being contending for the division title much less the WS
jhawk90 I just googled Natalie Gulbis. Not to be done at work but great choice of people.
I agree about the defense, but a rotation without a pitcher that had a sub 4 era in any of the previous 2 years? I have great memories of 87 but without the hindsight you would not have picked them to be successfull. 1987 was their breakout year and a very strong arguement could be made that they were the 9th best team in baseball.
Des, you’re right in that there were big questions about the club in ‘87. However, we knew, absolutely knew, the team could rake (that’s why you can afford a “steady” guy like Gagne) and we knew Viola and Bert and Reardon could pitch. Reardon and Gladden were recent additions brought in to help the club, incidentally, something this team has failed to do. The ‘87 club could pick it, a feature this club lacks. And I wouldn’t say the ‘87 club was devoid of team speed. At the time Puckett and Gladden could both run a bit, and a lot of the other guys were average (not Herbie!). If this blog had existed in ‘87, I probably would have argued for a better catcher and one more quality starter (the back end of the rotation was pretty weak). Giving Lombardozzi a shot at 2B was okay with me. I liked the rest of the club, I really did.
Hey Des who would you pick the 87 Yankees/Red Sox or the 09 Yankees/Red Sox to me that’s the biggest differance. The Twins may have a better team now then they did then but there are a lot of other teams that can say that as well.
Here’s the difference between ‘87 and the current club. The ‘87 team actually won in the playoffs. Viola was a big game pitcher. Puckett was a big game player. Blyleven did his part. Gagne was clutch. Gladden was clutch. Those guys did not make big mistakes,at critical times, and they made enough positive plays at critical times to win the thing. Didnt hurt the old West Division was a rag that year, and that St. Louis was missing some of their bats to injury. But Detroit was a great team, and our guys pounded the Tigress’s into oblivion in the ALCS. They were champions. They proved it by winning in the clutch. This squad has yet to prove they can do that.
Good point, BC of ND, although I don’t conced this year’s club is better. The AL West was not exactly fearsome in ‘87. The Twins clinched woth 5 games to go and mailed in those last 5 games.
Um, that’s “concede” and “with.” Multi-tasking again . . .
Wow, no love for my Orlando Hudson idea… if we can get him cheap for say 3 years, it would be worth giving up the first round pick…
rayreiner…
I agree 110% with you. This team doesn’t even have the personality types that I think can be big game performers. The only ones that come across as big game types are the three kids Gomez,Span, and Casilla. Those three seem likethey want the big scenario’s, like they want all eyes on them,they aren’t intimidated by anything. Anybody have any other thoughts about who are big game guys are? Obviously Blackburn showed us something, can Liriano be a big game pitcher?
RW…
Twins don’t ever give up 1st rounders.That just their track record.
shazel your right there’s a big difference between a great player like A-Rod and a great leader like Kirby.
Who is the worst team to ever win a WS and who is the best team ever to not win a WS.
The operative word is “yet”, rayreiner, when you consider that last year was the first full season in MLB for the entire rotation and half the lineup practically.
Morneau has a tendency to be clutch, he just wasnt in Sept this year.
But a towering HR off Joel Zumya a few years back sticks in my mind…
The difference between 87 and 91 and now is an extra round of games in the post season and the fact that 2 more teams from each league are getting into the post season.
Easier to get in, harder to win it all.
Big difference.
It’s way too early to label this ‘09 team as one comprised of big game performers or not. I believe this collection of players, especially the starting pitchers, in terms of TALENT, stacks up very favorably against the ‘87 WS champs.
jimmybee the best team always wins they may not be the most talented though.
Are the Twins gonna go with a straight five man rotation this season? Or will the fifth starter be given more days off? If the fifth starter isn’t used regularly then Blackburn,are only proven big game pitcher and team leader last season in innings pitched, will be the odd man out about every other fifth day according to the planned rotation announced by Gardy on the Twins website. I’m sure they’ll go on a straight rotation, but sometime that extra day rest makes guys over strong and erratic. I’m sure as long as there’s consistency from the start of the season then the starters will acclimate and take more or longer BP sessions if they are going to have an extra day between starts.
huh?
I think the TALENT of this ROTATION stacks up against almost any team in baseball even the D-bags,redsux,and yanks. Assuming Liriano’s really back and can stay healthy.
As far as comparing this rotation to 87 it’s obviously better on the back end but can Liriano and Baker really stack up to Viola and Bert? Not yet!
shazel,
First, where is on the Twins’ website that Gardy says Blackburn is #5?
Second, the Twins have used a straight 5 man rotation under Gardy’s entire tenure.
The rotation should be: Baker,Liriano,Slowey,Perkins,Blackburn.
You could swap Perkins and Blackburn, but I think Blackburn would benefit from following Perkins more than Slowey.
birdofprey…
When the Twins don’t have five games in five days, so basically anytime they get a day off they could skip the last(worst)starter. A lot of managers like to skip the 5th starter in these circumstances because an extra days rest for your 4 good starters could make them strong and therefore struggle with control.I can’t believe you’ve never heard this. Bert talks about it frequently. But I don’t think this rotation has a worst starter. So who would be skipped if anyone? Gardy seems to think that Perk is going to be 4th in the rotation.Does he intend to skip Blackburn once in a while?
SweetOne…
It’s in the article about Perkins on the Twins website. The rotation is going to go 1.Baker 2.Liriano 3.Slowey 4.Perkins 5.Blackburn
And Gardy has been known to skip a fifth starter although rarely.
there is a rumor that bill smith is within a week or two of waking from his winter long hibernation! lets hope he realizes that the same team that wasn’t good enough last year probably won’t be this year without at least some help! imo.
ggg….
I think that this team was good enough last year,but Gardy and company never really figured out how to best use the new talent. I think the year of continuity and a whole year of Span and Casilla at the top of the order will improve are record by several games all other things withstanding of course.
Shazel,
It is only sinker ball pitchers that suffer from being too rested. Power and control/finesse pitchers don’t suffer from being too strong.
The reason that many managers skip the 5th starter when they can is because:
1. The 5th starter is barely adequate to do the job so they want to use him as little as possible.
2. It gives their top starters a few extra starts though out the season.
ggg…
however, I think that we still need to improve to be good enough this year. I think that Cleveland is going to be back to dominant form this season. They finished strong last year and they bought in Wood to solidify their BP. I honestly think they could win 95 games this season, and the wild card more than likely will end up with the second place eastern division team. The Twins need to win 95+ GAMES AND THERE’S NO WAY THIS ROSTER CAN!
SweetOne…
Point taken. Just thought it was interesting that our 5th starter is blackburn. That’s an impressive rotation.
Dragon-Very moving protrait of how your 2 favorite sports interwine.By your reponse,it obivious that you understand that the remark about keeping it about baseball was directed towards others who think this blog allows them the freedom to talk about anything they darn please!
I agree with Baker,Liriano and Slowey being 1,2,3. So that leaves Perkins and Blackburn at 4 & 5. They could do it in any order at still have the 2 lefties split up, but since Blackburn is a sinker ball pitcher he would benefit from following the lefty instead of the right handed soft throwing control pitcher (when both pitchers are going against the same team).
Batters wouldn’t have to adjust as much when going from Slowey to Blackburn as the would going from Perkins to Blackburn.
I’d rate are starting 5 as 2 #2’s (w/Ace potential) and 3 #3-4s.
the same team that wasn’t good enough last year
The “same team” that wasn’t good enough last year started the season with the following guys playing on a regular basis:
Hernandez
Everett
Lamb
Monroe
Rincon
Bass
And the following guys NOT playing on a regular basis
Span
Casilla
Liriano
Buscher
Mijares
That rotation doesn’t designate Blackburn as the #5 starter.
It designates Blackburn as the starter on the fifth start of the sequence which begins Opening Day.
The main purpose of that sequence is to go R-L-R-L-R.
Gardy will try to skip (his perception of) the least effective of the starters.
I would suspect it would be Perkins OR Blackburn - whomever fails the stink-test at that time.
whoever not whomever!
Sorry, Miss Nelson.
I really did my English homework.
Sweetone i’m curious as to who you think the two potential aces are because i think there’s three Baker,Liriano and Slowey.
Economic Recession??
http://www.twincities.com/news/ci_11461746?source=rss
You would think the team would reward its fans with like, an effort to improve the team or something….
Roy, according to many folks around THESE parts, the Twins HAVE made an effort to improve.
Haven’t you heard? They were “interested” in Kawakami. They were “interested” in Blake. They’re “interested” in Brandon Lyon. They’re “interested” in half a dozen third basemen.
And don’t forget, they made a rule 5 pickup.
They’re “trying” Roy, they’re “trying.”
t the first half of the season they were 44-37 and the second half they were 44-37 so the addition of those players didn’t have a great impact on the record. in a normal year the central takes about 95 wins last year it was 88 plus 1 in a very down year. it would be expected at least 2 of the other 4 teams would be improved so it will probably take a 5-7 win improvement to win it. chances are that some of our young guys will improve and some will take a step back so where will the extra wins come from?
i’m not sure.
Last year, every starter was down for some period of time due to injury. I believe the L-R-L thing enters heavily into the sequence decision, but pitchers will inevitably be forced by injury to skip turns in the rotation, and the then both the sequence and the participants can change. The reason many of us still believe the “abundance of MLB-ready starters” theory is overstated is that pitching is both mission-critical and fickle.
Don’t mind Cheif, Roy. The way to prove to him that something is being tried is to actually do it.
Since, you know, he’s never failed at anything he’s attempted. Ever.
Roy Hobbs,
Pick me out a winner, Bobby.
so the addition of those players didn’t have a great impact on the record.
I argue that some of that is from young guys getting used to the bigs. If Span, Casilla, and Buscher start the season with the club instead of Monroe, Lamb, and Everett…it’s possible they struggle a bit but start paying out much sooner than they did last season.
The late collapse of the Twins bullpen makes the second half comparable to the first half.
For the most part the team was obviously improved after April-May.
“sane says:
January 15th, 2009 at 2:03 pm
Roy Hobbs,
Pick me out a winner, Bobby.”
That movie is one of the greatest baseball movies ever
The truth is Bobby gave Roy a corked bat.
The record may not reflect it, but the team clearly got better.
Way to come through in the clutch, Bobby!
I just love the part where he breaks the lights out of the tower. Second best moment was when the ball came out of the cover
Yeah, those were good times…I also liked when I struck out Babe Ruth, who actually looked in shape in that movie..
Anywhoo…I’m just sitting here, chilling in the Giants dugout wondering why the Twins have failed to adequately address their bullpen…No big deal.
I, like many others, am just licking my chops at the thought of taking a Matty Guerrier hanging slider about 480 feet into some stadium lights. Man, that would be a good time.
I think the splitting up of pitchers based on left or right handedness is overrated.
GENO,
I find the juxtiposition of being a fan of the Twins vs. a supporter and voter of a fans owned squad particularly interesting.
Take this blog for instance. None of us (that I am aware) have ANY direct influence on decisions that the team makes (AND of that I am glad). We’re fans; we praise (seldom), condemn/criticize (often), offer suggestions (incessently), etc.
NOW, extrapolate that to 2,000 - 2,500 of us who pay @$50 (25 pounds sterling)per year to vote on the direction/management of the Twins, like we do at AFC Wimbledon. Can you say blood on the floor?
Luckily, for AFC Wimbledon, there have only been a few battles. EVERYONE remembers the fight, the demonstrations, the marches…AND the club has also done well so far. A much larger problem arises when/if the club advances to Level 2 or 3. MANY of the supporters have such a bad memory of our last time in the Premiership & Level 2, I wouldn’t be surprised that many/most would be happy to settle in the 2/3/4 levels and compete there.
EVEN when a team is successful, supporters agreeing on a future course of action can be a nightmare, and possibly destructive.
Regards,
Roy Hobbs,
Your “thought of taking a Matty Guerrier hanging slider about 480 feet into some stadium lights” is even more fictional than you are.
so we’re going with all of our guys will better next year and none of the other teams will approach?
Gobbledy, that seems to be the corner the Twins have painted themselves into, yes.
I think the splitting up of pitchers based on left or right handedness is overrated.
Some of that too is switching up pitching styles. Taking a fastball slinger and following them with a knuckleballer (though the Twins don’t have one)
You hope that in any given series the oppoent doesn’t get comfortable in the box and the pitching remains somewhat unpredictabe.
ggg,
“so we’re going with all of our guys will better next year and none of the other teams will approach?”
Nah.
I am going with “I have no idea who will get better or who will get worse.
So, since its all a bleeping crap-shoot, I am giving someone else the bleeping dice.
Chief is secretly Gil Renard from the hit movie the Fan.
I understand switching up based on pitching styles, but I would question whether a Perkins is really so similar to a Liriano that it would be easier for batters to adjust just because they’re both left-handed.
Different types of starting pitchers require different preparation.
If you pitch identical SP’s in consecutive games, you give the opposing team twice as many reps to prepare for your second SP.
Consecutive LHP’s may not be identical, but much of the preparation for any LHP is applicable to all LHP’s
I think it’s just over-managing. It’s not chess, it’s baseball.
Before DY became a pro ball player he was a childdhood actor who acted in some 80’s movies such as “The Kid From Left Field” where he played a young child who loves to watch his favorite team at the time the San Diego Padres
The movie Mr Baseball starring Tom Sellick inspired Lew Ford in this day and age to go to Japan to become the next international baseball star
In the cult classic movie “A League of there Own” Jimmy Dugan (Tom Hanks) portrays the Part of Howard Sinker in his younger years as a drunken womens softball league manager
Wait a minute, wait a minute, wait just a gosh dang minute, jimmy.
“The Fan” was a HIT movie??
On the other hand, I absolutely love watching ‘drunken womens softball.’
“I think it’s just over-managing. It’s not chess”
IMO, its not chess.
Its more like checkers, because everyone thinks they can play better than the winner.
And neither the winner nor the loser is considered very smart by the people standing around the table.
The late collapse of the Twins bullpen
suburban legend
Bullpen ERA by month
Mar/Apr 3.54
May 3.94
Jun 3.27
Jul 5.21
Aug 4.13
Sept 3.68
(league average bullpen ERA = 4.10)
OPS
Mar/Apr .666
May .740
Jun .770
Jul .802
Aug .771
Sept .739
(league aveage OPS = .749)
Rotation ERA
Mar/Apr 4.74
May 4.43
Jun 4.70
Jul 4.28
Aug 3.09
Sept 4.92
(league aveage rotation ERA = 4.44)
it was the bats & the rotation that collapsed, not the pen
And as the numbers show, there is much more of an issue with the rotation (which only 2 months were at or better than league average) than with the pen (which only one month was worse than league average). I am not sure whether the perceived non-need for at least one starter is another way of the Twins to be cheap or is something that they feel will fix itself.
The pen was fine
sane,
Excellent analogy!
Hey Thrylos, any way you could dig up the win/loss record of lefties following lefties in the rotation?
How many leads were blown in the last two months.
Blown lead = loss.
Or vice versa…
Gary Kasparov couldn’t manage a baseball team it would drive him crazy because the logical moves aren’t always the best moves.
What a board of whiners, With the exception of a few (Seth, Sane). They haven’t made any moves cause they do not need too.
Q. 25 man for 25 man who has a better roster in the AL central?
A. Nobody
The Twins are a very young & talented team with alot of depth. Would they like to improve in some areas, sure, do they need to panick just to have something happen? No
Anybody here read BTF?
The comments section of the article about the White Sox signing Bartolo Colon is hilarious. It broke out into a contest to see who could pen the best headline using the word ‘colon.’
Samples:
“Doctor to probe White Sox’ Colon”
“Ozzie hopes Colon can handle pressure”
“Overworked Colon leads to runs”
“Ozzie hopes Colon will make terrific #2 starter”
There’s like 50 of em.
t98,
All those numbers show it that the SP had a higer ERA than the BP. Those monthly averages cannot describe what happened in actual games. For example, the Twins might have won all the games where the starters had the high ERAs. Plus, many of the runs relievers give up are charged to the starter, not the reliever. One error by Punto on the third out and the next few guys that homer aren’t charged to any pitcher.
thrylos it looks like it was team effort all year one part carried the other 2 and they switched spots when they got tired.
FA the only reason that Seth and Sane don’t whine is their tear ducts are all dried up.
BC,
I stand corrected, Slowey does have the potential to be an Ace pitcher.
I think so to Sweetone all he needs is that knockout pitch and he could be great.
So Guerrier, Crain, Reyes, Bass, Rincon, Bonser, and (eventually) Nathan were NOT a problem.
I guess that I wasn’t paying close enough attention to what I was watching.
Why would I whine?
I’m livin’ large and lovin’ life.
Or something like that.
I’m not sure the bullpen did “collapse”. I thought they were pretty bad all year.
The best “Colon” headline to this day was still the one posted on MLB.com when the Sox first signed him so many years ago.
“Chicago gets whiff of Colon”
I regret to this day not grabbing a screen cap of that.
To be fair sane: When Nathan blew that one save in Oakland, the two runs surrendered weren’t earned.
T,
Did that wiff come from a colon or a cologne.
Different fragrances.
the best one I’ve ever seen on that…
Colon takes a pounding again in stinkfest.
T,
I agree that “there is no justice in baseball”, BUT
Nathan in September2008 was not the Nathan that we all know.
I don’t need numbers to tell me that.
i feel bad questioning the front offices lack of action this winter. i stand corrected, all is well in twins land!
i’ll echo sane, how can life get any better?
Irritated Colon blows up at teammates.
ggg,
“how can life get any better?”
Go with it!
Its infectious!
WJ,
“Irritated Colon blows up at teammates”
WE HAVE A WINNER!!!!!!!!
Contract Negotiations Leave Colon Torn
Congrats Walter Johnson… you actually beat a real one… the one I used was actually a headline I saw once in Maxim
*ahem*
“Twins pound Colon in first half of double-header”
…I’ll leave now.
Johnson dominates Colon in Monday night pounding
Fans Chafe After Another Colon Blow-Out
Hanging balls spoil clean Colon performance
Red Sox Colon to be examined by team doctors
Colon Sore from dealing the Hard Stuff
Check out these unfortunate Bartolo Colon headlines:
At the risk of being banished…
“Benches clear after Colon ejection”
Hot Shot Up the Middle Leaves Colon Bloody
“Jenks relieves Colon, Sox hold on for win”
Colon falters after Giant runs
Colon meets former Sox SP, Dick Pole
Friction between Colon, Johnson mounting
T at 4:07 the winner so far.
My humble entry:
“Colon gas suffocates Twins offense”
Hail to the Chief!
“Sox Announcer Harrelson rips Colon”
Great blog today womens tennis and colon jokes. Loving it. LaVella should go get Bill Smmith and demand some new news
Don’t remind me. I have to suffer through both Ken Harrelson and Steve Stone this year.
“Ozzie: Better Movement key to Colon”
Great blog today womens tennis and colon jokes.
And drunken women’s softball.
I’d pay to see that.
USAFChief I would to
You can’t make this stuff up:
Ricky Henderson says he’s still available to play. Asked about the WBC, he responded “What’s (the WBC), wrestling?”
So what happens if a retired player (in the HoF) comes back and plays…do they get booted out of the Hall?
T,
ask Michael Jordan
It’s tough for a non-roster player to make the team. Usually the front office thinks the roster players are worth keeping. They generally are very reluctant to move off someone who is on the roster in order to make room for a non-roster guy.
I think Machado and Matos are better than some of the players that will likely make the team. Gardy could fall in love with one of them, but barring a load of injuries they will probably start in AAA.
The sooner they release R.A. Dickhead the happier I will be.
Against LHP Jason Kubel is the Designated Out. He batted .232 last year against LHP. He has a career .238 average, so he is getting worse.
Although he is “stubborn”, at least Delmon Young can hit a little. He hit .300 vs. LHP in 2008, and a respectable .280 something vs. RHP. Delmon, despite his troubling approach to the game, is a far better athlete than Kubel.
Since Delmon won’t work on his fielding, let him DH until he decides he wants to go to work.
Kubel can be relegated to a pinch hitter agaist RHP. That’s his best and highest use as a player. One dimentional players like Kubel are a dime a dozen.
I think the Twins have written off Delmon, but if Billy Smith can’t deal him, Delmon should be the everyday DH.
Thanks to all for some great laughs today!
vs. right-handed pitching, career:
.287/.321/.400/.721 - Delmon
.275/.327/.464/.790 - Kubel
last year:
.286/.330/.390/.720 - Delmon
.283/.336/.497/.833 - Kubel
I don’t know about anyone else, but a .400 SLG is the last thing I want out of my “everyday DH”.
birdofprey-One thing i think we all can agree with,this blog is a barrel of laughs!
“Most team members frustrated with offensive slow-down, but Colon still doesn’t give a cr*p”
I’m onboard with a Gagne signing; LENIII’s article sounds more serious than the usual “expressed interest”
Gagne WAS a great player. But I get that feeling his best years are behind him. Has me feeling the same way I did when they brought back Guardado.
Sometimes relivers bounce back, so if Gagne is cheap enough, I am ok with signing him. But I hope the FO does not just expect plugging him in for Reyes makes our bullpen much better…
I guess if Mujires throws well and Gagne can even put up numbers like post AS break, then the pen could be better. But those two could just as easily underperfom, leaving us in trouble.
Lots of good reading and originality here. I’m not a regular poster but enjoy the comments and getting off topic is what makes blogs interesting. I was going to add to the Bartolow headlines but all I could come up with is “Colon Is Spastic in Rubber Game” and I was ashamed to post it.
Gagne is 33- a lot of relief pitchers have some good years left at 33.
Brad Lidge comes to mind as a guy that was toast and turned it around.
Granted the roids may have had an impact on his prior performance and the shape of his body now…
“Gagne WAS a great player. But I get that feeling his best years are behind him. Has me feeling the same way I did when they brought back Guardado.”
Gagne is probably still a better option than Boof Bonser. I’d expect him to post Jesse Crain type numbers, and that wouldn’t be bad if they could get him on a 1 year deal.
“Colon needs surgery for torn ligament”
From mlb trade rumors site….
Brandon Lyon’s agent is telling teams he has a two-year, $9MM offer in hand (Kyle Farnsworth money). The Tigers or Twins are possibilities there, while the Cardinals may have offered one year.
I would have to say I would rather lock down Lyon than Gagne…..Who knows if he would rather try closing again or return to his best role thus far, which was a set-up man.
AM-I agree with your Gagne take.It,s a matter of how injured his arm is.Anderson has proven to do wonders with pitchers.He and Gardy do a great job of monitoring pitch counts!
Keep in mind that with Gagne, the Twins will likely overpay no matter what due to the Boras connection. I would rather that money go towards getting a Lyon type guy, or go to the Wiggy pot*
*a man can dream, can’t he???
Wow. Eric Gagne actually had a lower WHIP last year than Brandon Lyon.
jku: Good point on Lyon. I’d like to think that if the Twins can convince him they’ve got the strong staff + Nathan behind him that he could still get a good amount of “stats” to pad his resume.
Yeah…From the limited info I can find on him, it seems that he better suited in the set-up role. Some doubts as to whether or not he has the stuff to be a solid closer for someone.
But teams desparate for any kind of half-decent closer option (i.e. Tigers) could go ahead and overpay for his services.
GENO,
IMO Andy does a much better job with young pitchers than he does with veterans. Gagne may end up like Ramon Ortiz, Sidney Ponson, Juan Rincon, Brian Bass, Kyle Lohse, JC Romero, Joe Mays, James Baldwin, Aaron Fultz and Rick Reed.
RE Gagne,
Positive: Since coming off an injury he has had a lower strikeout rate , but it’s still above average.
Negative: His walk rate has increased and now gives up an amount higher than average.
Wild Card: He gave up 11 homeruns in 46.1 innings in 2008. In 2007, he gave up just 3 in 52 innings.
The difference is related to his HR/FB%. His flyball ratio has been steady at around the 38% area every year, but his HR/FB ratio has fluctuated.
In 2008, he gave up homers on flyballs at 20.4%. In 2007, at 5.2%. His career average is 9.3%.
He will strikeout hitters, he will walk a fair number of guys, but will he keep the ball in the park at reasonable rate?
The projections expect him to improve in this area. I think his value to the Twins will depend on if he can keep the ball in the park.
Good morning!
Q: What do the Twins have in common with Willie Bloomquist? To find out, check out this fascinating piece by Joe Posnanski, link attached
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/joe_posnanski/01/15/dunn.bloomquist/1.html
Gagne sucks and it sucks that they are considering him!LOSERS NOT WELCOME.
I always thought Gagne should be a Twin. I think he could put the smack-down on opponents coming out of the pen:
Say, for the sake of argument, that the “per year” price tag on Gagne is the same as what’s being reported for Lyon…
Would you rather bet $4.5mm for one year of Gagne or guarantee Lyon $9mm for two years?
Personally, I think I’d lean toward Gagne (and I would think they could get him for less guaranteed money plus performance incentives).
Being a Boras client doesn’t enter in to the equation since you’re only going to sign him for a year anyway and aren’t planning on him being retained next year. Though maybe if you pay a little above market value for 2009, you might get a club option for 2010.
If the Twins sign Gagne, that would kick the door wide open to a subsequent Bonds signing.
Do we really have to spend another first half of a season watching some washed up failure lose enough games for us that we actually give one of our young guys a chance. Delaney and Slama could both easily out perform this steroid taking basterd.PLEASE DON’T BRING IN WASHED UP LOSERS. NO MOVES IS BETTER THAN BAD MOVES.
Good analysis JimCrikket…
At least, for me, I would rather bank on Lyon for a two-year set-up.
I understand Gange got better after July last year, but just way too many question marks, even for just a one-year tryout.
I think in addition to some other cons about him, the thing that stands out for me is how injury prone he seems. It would suck to give him 4 mill, and then lose him for 2-3 months due to a quadricep or something…
AM,
Great!
Sign Gagne and Bonds and then let the DEA open a local office in the Metrodome.
Lyon and Gagne are washed up losers. If they pay one of these guys punto money and wiggs signs a one year deal in Baltimore then the FO really missed the boat.
I’m not sure Lyon is “washed up.” Although, I will agree with you shazel, that if Wiggy signs a 1-year deal with someone like Baltimore, my blood pressure will reach an unimaginable level.
Something tells me Wiggy will be able to fanagle at least a 2-year deal out of someone though.
You remember, the guy with the career .298/.444/.607 line? In 2007 he hit .276/.480/.565 with 28 HR, but we couldn’t have used that kind of production in our lineup last year, because he would have taken away AB from Kubel and would have been a bad influence on Delmon Young.
HELLO THE BIGGEST PROBLEM WITH GAGNE IS THAT HE’S A CHEATER!(REMEMBER POST JUICING RINCON, DO WE WANT THAT AGAIN?)
HELLO THE BIGGEST PROBLEM WITH LYON IS THAT HE’S NOT A POWER PITCHER!
I DON’T WANT EITHER OF THEM PITCHING WHEN THE TWINS HAVE THE LEAD!
OK so maybe Lyon’s not washed up, but he’s still just another fly ball pitcher. We need a power arm in the set-up role. A real power arm not one with track marks!
F U to all pro athlete juicers!
So what if Lyon is not a power pitcher?? He is an experienced set-up option that this team needs in some form.
I like the idea of somebody like him complimenting Mijares for that role.
You would rather trot out Guerrier, Crain and Boof in that spot after what happened last year? I’m not comfy with that, I’ll tell you that much.
Why doesn’t the league ban all these guys permanently? I hope Clemens and Bonds rot in federal prison.
It’s embarrassing for the Twins to let it be printed that they are even considering Gagne.
I want guys who strike out a ton of people.I want Slama and Delaney! Remember out BP when we had Balfour to pitch the 7th, juiced up Rincon to pitch the 8th, and of course Nathan in the 9th. It didn’t matter if A-rod was up or who ever. Those guys would over power even the best hitters. I want to feel like I can turn off the game after 6 innings if we have the lead(even though I won’t). I want to taunt Yankee’s at the strip club after the game because they looked so foolish trying to hit 95mph fastballs and sliders in the dirt.Which I was fortunate enough to do back in 04! It was great!
Giambi was the toast of NYC last year, with everyone going overboard with the “stache” and pushing for him to be voted in as the “fans choice” for the All-Star game. Why, by the way, do you suppose MLB put him on that ballot? Why, if you are trying to crack down on steroids, would you choose an admitted user to put on the fans choice ballot, when you know for sure that getting on that ballot would lead to a big campaign for him.
Seems like a pretty huge double standard to me–Bonds is blackballed, Giambi is celebrated.
I agree to a point. Bonds still says he’s the best homerun hitter of all time and that he didn’t knowingly cheat. Giambi at least in the public eye seems repentant.
AM in Giambi’s defense he’s one of the only players to admit to taking steroids not that it makes what he did right but i can forgive someone who admits they were wrong.
Anybody else seeing different names and emails in the comment boxes today? Strib tech issues? Is it really getting that bad, even in Ch 11?
I should clarify my earlier comment–I think Giambi should be allowed to play (but maybe not as celebrated.) Once you have a testing program in place, that’s what you have to live and die with, not who apologizes, not innuendo against a player who has a sudden jump in their stats one year. Live and die by the test. Fail the test, do the time.
Bonds never failed a test, so he shouldn’t be blackballed.
And he’s certainly the best homerun hitter and best hitter that I’ve ever witnessed. He changed a game more than any other player I’ve seen. I think that was driven more by his control of the strike zone than anything else.
Columbo’s post is actually rayreiner.
Giambi failed the test!
AM:
I appreciate your argument to a point, but the fact remains tests are not adequate in and of themselves. Players use effective masking agents, and the cat and mouse game will always evolve between the masking agents and the testing capabilities. That’s why evidence outside of testing use has to be considered. Bonds and Clemens are prime examples. The hard evidence presented against them has not been refuted. Until there is a positive defense, the evidence against both of them is overwhelming, and damning, in my opinion. I think all professional sports in the USA need a gut-check in the face of PED use: do we want credibility, or do we want a popularity without accountability for the integrity of the sport? Right now, MLB continues to straddle the fence. The league, owners, and players union are more interested in protecting profit margins than integrity. It is for that reason alone that the Giambi’s and Gagne’s of the world continue, and it is why eventually we will have hand wrining when Bonds, McGwire, Clemens, et al, come up for HOF voting.
I personally think some of you are underestimating the experience factor with regards to a set-up arm. Maybe we have a couple of minor leaguers who can throw the ball 93mph, but that does not mean they can be relied on for that critical 8th inning.
(We could get in to a whole discussion about whether Nathan should pitch “critical” innings whenever they occur, rather than only the 9th, but that’s a discussion for another day.)
I used the $4.5mm for Gagne because it was easy and comparable to the annual money being discussed for Lyon. I suspect he’ll end up signing for considerably less… probably only a couple mil in guaranteed money.
I guess I’m jaded, but as for the ‘roids issue, I honestly don’t care what a guy did or didn’t do… I assume a lot more did them than we’ll ever know, so unless we’re going to just say, “we won’t sign anyone who played in the majors before testing”, all I really want to know is whether he’s a reasonable bet to do the job now better than what we have.
I think for a couple of million, Gagne is a reasonable gamble to take… more reasonable than crossing your fingers that Guerrier, Crain, Mijares, or someone from the minors will be effective right from the opening bell.
AM/rayreiner I have a question for you guys. Under what circumstances would you accept the use of PED’s? Do you think it’s wrong because it improves the players performance or is it wrong because it’s illegal? Personally the only problem i have with PED’s is that they can or may cause health problems and i dont like the idea of young uneducated kids using them. If down the road they find out there is a safe way to use them then i have no problem with it.
If your SMART enough to not get caught then it doesn’t matter what you do. Stupid cheaters deserve everything they get and more.
My problem with PED’s is that sports id supposed to be played on an even playing field. Unfair advantages are just that. As far as the law, I could care less. The constitution was formed to protect persons and property. What anyone wants to put in their own body doesn’t bother me. But when you get some egocentric punk like Bonds walking around with the homerun record that really sticks in my craw. The guy could at least be humble since HE knows for sure that he CHEATED!
JC: Good post at 10:34.
“I honestly don’t care what a guy did or didn’t do… I assume a lot more did them than we’ll ever know, so unless we’re going to just say, “we won’t sign anyone who played in the majors before testing”, all I really want to know is whether he’s a reasonable bet to do the job now better than what we have.”
Very well said, JC. I agree with this point entirely.
rayreiner–Using “evidence outside of testing” is a very unfair standard. Some players have FBI agents going through their trash, and some have zero outside evidence against them.
BC–I think it is correct to try to limit PEDs in baseball, because it was giving some players an unfair advantage.
Sure, there are plenty of other things that do that (Denard Span’s lasic surgery comes to mind), but creating a drug test to limit the impact of steroids on baseball seems like a legitimate endeavor to me.
LaVelle’s got a new thread started re: Gagne.
JC,
I feel the opposite. I’d much rather put my trust in Mijares or Crain than Eric Gagne.
I feel the opposite. I’d much rather put my trust in Mijares or Crain than Eric Gagne.
I’d rather the Twins had the option of going with whichever works out, rather than banking on just the existing options.
It’s not like the money will be better spent elsewhere, nor is it the last of available payroll space.
shazel,
“If your SMART enough to not get caught then it doesn’t matter what you do.”
“My problem with PED’s is that sports id supposed to be played on an even playing field. Unfair advantages are just that”
How can you argue both sides of the same issue?
It doesn’t matter?
It does matter?
PICK ONE!
