How much is Joe Crede worth?
Posted on February 13th, 2009 – 2:10 PMBy La Velle
The Twins were present today in Arizona as free agent third baseman Joe Crede took batting practice. The Twins remain interested in his services, but indications are that Crede wants $7 million guaranteed - up to $11 million with incentives - and the Twins aren’t going there.
Indications are that the Twins are willing to craft a deal that reaches $7-8 million with incentives. The incentives would occur right away, like getting $1 million or so for making the Opening Day roster.
It has become THE question of the offseason for Twins fans who are salivating over Crede settling into the Twins batting order and wearing out left-handed pitchers - how much is Crede worth?
I admit I would have taken the plunge at a base salary of $5 million with incentives to push it past $8 million. A $7 million base, to me, is risky when you’re talking about someone with back problems playing home games on FieldTurf.
So how much is he worth when healthy? Let’s take a look at some numbers.
His last healthy season was 2006, when he hit .283 with 30 homers and 94 RBI. Let’s say that Crede would go .280-25-85 as a Twin - that’s just me throwing out numbers without looking up projections. Now let’s who preformed that well last season.
Troy Glaus .271-25-96 - made $12.5 million last season.
Adrian Beltre .269-23-71 - made $12 million
Melvin Mora: .284-22-100 - made $7.8 million
Chipper Jones: .365-20-70 - made $15 million
David Wright: .302-33-124 - made $5 million in what would have been an arbitration year.
Aramis Ramirez: .290-27-111 - $15 million
Then you have players in the early stages of their careers - like Kevin Kouzmanoff, Edwin Encarnacion and Mark Reynolds - who made less than $500,000.
So it’s easy to see what the price of a good third baseman is. And it’s a little more understandable why Boras asked for what he did. I’m sure the Twins feel that Boras needs to consider the injury risk a little more - as well as where the market has gone.
As someone with the club pointed out, Crede couldn’t answer the bell for his free agent year, which is a bad sign. Someone else pointed out that Crede has had back problems while playing on real grass. What will happen if he plays on FieldTurf? And I have been told that Twins doctors have expressed some concern about Crede’s medical reports.
Other things to consider:
1. How much will the Twins learn by watching Crede work out in Arizona. Nothing will be known for sure until he tries to play a bunch of games in a row.
2. It’s not that far-fetched to think that Brian Buscher can improve this season. He’s not vacum vacuum at third but what if he does better than .294/.340/.390 with 4 homers and 47 RBI in 70 games? And that RBI rate isn’t bad.
3. A healthy Michael Cuddyer and another step forward from Delmon Young will improve the Twins’ slugging stats against lefties.
4. Do the Twins have Mike Lamb-itis? Tony Bautista disease? Do they feel that any third baseman they sign will fail?
5. Do the Twins think that C doesn’t stand for Crede but for chronic? And that’s chronic not, The Chronic. Not sure how good Dr. Dre’s glove is…..
Just some food for thought as this thing plays out.
I want to call your attention to this story. The Twins maintain this pitcher is still a first round talent and could still draft him. But you wonder how the kid feels after going through the ordeal. The Twins provided testimony for the case and told the truth.
Sometime next week, I will post a spring training guide of places to go in Fort Myers. I’m already getting e-mail requests from fans that are coming down for games and want the lowdown
199 Responses to "How much is Joe Crede worth?"
Nice analysis, LaVelle. Either Mr. Smith really likes Buscher and Harris, or he really does not like Crede and the other 3B options on the market. It seems strange that after their open pursuit of Casey Blake, they have gone into a shell in terms of other 3B. Did their opinion of their current options change?
Crede’s worth is not based on his bat alone he brings gold glove defense with him. If he can stay healthy $7 million is a steal.
I’d love to see it happen as $4 M base with $4 M incentives for at bats and other “availability” and performance incentives. But not for $7 M - at that point let’s keep H&B. Let Joe wait.
Thanks LEN3! I would feel comfortable giving Crede his guaranteed 7-8 million for the year IF he was completely healthy. He could play 1 game and be gone for the season - you just don’t know. On the other hand, in the past the Twins have thrown money around to free agents like Wall Street Bankers and got very little in return. I think they are playing the side of caution a little too much here. Unless they have a plan for that money - like locking up Mauer long term??????
first
ps vaccuum
I thought Blake was a better option. He could play 3rd, 1st, of, dh, and would be a good stick as a dh or any of those positions for 3 yrs. Crede is risky, but only at a 1 yr risk. He sounds cheap compared to Punto at $4m.
stupid dial-up
Man, when I saw those numbers from Beltre, I’m glad the Twins didn’t deal with the Mariners last year when they were trying to pilfer a few pitchers to dump some more salary.
I think you’re right about Crede, LaVelle. If he were “really” healthy, wouldn’t you think Scott Boras would have had him on a Field Turf surface so the Twins and others could see him getting down on a grounder?
ps: I wish I was there. How’s the weather?
If Crede is completely healthy and sure of his stamina throughout the year, he shouldn’t be afraid to sign a contract that starts with a $5 M base with another $2 or $3 M in incentives. If he won’t go for this then I have to believe that he’s damaged goods and we are better off sticking with Harris and Buscher. I love the idea of having a 3rd baseman with the power to hit 30 HR’s a year but if he only plays in 10 games, we aren’t going to see it.
If Buscher moderately improves on his batting line, it won’t make up for his terrible range, hands, and arm.
I agree with Ben W, and be afraid. Gardenhire seems to like Buscher more than Harris all things considered.
Worth the plunge on Crede in my book.
Joe Crede is worth nothing. The Twins should not waiste money on him. Buscher and Harris can adequately work third base. They have the potential to be just as good as Crede or better with far more good years ahead of them. Crede would only be a short term wonder if obtained by the Twins because the team has Daniel Valancia improving fast in the minors and is vastly more talented than Crede. The Twins need to wise up and save their money to play their own good players in the future.
Lavelle,
Do you know if the Twins will recognize St. Patty’s day this year in camp with different uniforms? If so, when? I’ll be down there that week. Thanks for the coverage!
If the Twins don’t waste money on Crede or anyone else, they’ll just pocket it.
quit writing about bush. Harris should be at third if they don’t make a move.
Buscher scares me playing third. He’s got that terrible throwing arm with that “herky-jerky” style that causes your heart to stop on every ball hit his way. Where’s the “G” Man when we really need him!
Seems to me the real question is not whether or not the Twins should throw big money at Joe Crede. Rather, it’s can the Twins really afford to have a left side consisting of Nick Punto and Brian Buscher? Are division titles and World Series won by having two dead spots in your lineup? Sign Crede. Give him plenty off rest by utilizing Buscher. It’s not only the right move, it’s the smart move. A guy like Crede could very realistically be the difference in a tight division race.
.
La Velle,
the only issue I have with those contract numbers is that they were singed before this season. If you look at the numbers of the contracts signed after the market crash (Abreu & Giambi @ $5M a piece, for example, Wiggington @3M/2Y etc) I just don’t see how can Crede get more than $3M guaranteed. I would not mind if he gets $10M if he reaches all his incentives (if those include higher than 30 home runs and being selected the world series MVP 
)
Buscher is not a vacuum. He has the range (and the arm) of a paint bucket (ok, laundry hamper) at third. His power numbers last year (.096 isoP) were just a little better than Casilla’s (.095 isoP) and worse than Punto’s (.098 isoP). He belongs in Rochester.
Heck, worse comes to worse sign Orlando Hudson (Casilla at short) and have Punto platoon with Harris. That would be a better infield both offensively and defensively
Where else is Crede going to sign? It looks to me like BS is playing this one right.I wouldn’t mind Crede at 3B for the Twins,but there is no way he is worth 7 million plus incentives totaling 11 million,off two injury shortened seasons.If the Twins wait a week to ten days they might just get him at their price.If not go with the platoon.
[…] Neal just posted a nice piece on the value of Joe Crede based on the top performing third basemen last year. Right now Crede […]
Signing Crede is way too risky unless the base is $1.75M with incentives for up to ‘as follows.’ And the incentives shouldn’t start with being able to play on OD;, that’s ridiculous.
1. $750K for every 54 games played (games played to be defined to include as a game played, the usual day off he’d receive - this ‘usual day’ amount to be agreed to between the parties, but likely no more than 10 for the season). This could be $2.25M for 162. GP would be prorated after he played 54 games. E.g., playing in 81 games he’d earn $1.125.
2. $1M if not on the DL all year. (Necessity to go on DL to be determined by a majority vote of 3 neutral doctors agreed to between the parties or each party picks their physician and these two physicians select a third ‘umpire’ physician or each party selects its ‘third’ umpire and they toss a coin to see which party’s 2nd physician becomes the ‘umpire’ physician.)
3. $750K for every 10 HRs & pro/rata; e.g., 25 HRs = $1.875.
4. $250K for attaining or exceeding a fielding percentage to be agreed to between the parties.
5. $250K for gold glove.
6. Payment for BA as follows (base of $300K for hitting .270 and then additional amounts for each five points above .270, with no prorating for in-between percentages until he hits above .300, b/c BA doesn’t contribute that much. So, it be thusly:
a. .270 = $300K
b. .275 = $100K
c. .280 = $100K
d. .285 = $100K
e. .290 = $100K
f. .295 = $100K
g. .300 = $100K
h. > .300 = $5K for each % point.
7. RBIs as follows (base is $250K for achieving 80 RBIs and then additional amounts for going in excess of $250K, prorated when in between; e.g., 98 RBIs = $250K + $25K + $20K:
a. 80 = $250K
b. 90 = $25K
c. 100 = $25K
d. >100 = $2K per RBI
8. When he must move a runner to 3rd base from 2nd base w/no outs, all such situations are totaled for the year and the contract counts as RBIs, those he would’ve driven in had he not had to move the runner to 3rd base from 2nd base with no outs. So, if he hits .333 w/RISP, and he moved a runner to third from second with no outs 10 times during the season, he’d get three (3) ‘contract’ RBIs.
9. $100K for less than 80 Ks.
10. $10K for each walk off hit or GWRBI in the Twins’ last AB in a game.
11. $50 if he voted as AS team starting 3rd baseman.
12. $25K if he’s named to the AS team.
13. $25K if the Twins make the ALDS.
14. $25K if the Twins make the ALCS.
15. $50K if the Twins make the WS.
Items 1, 2, 3, 4, 6, 7, & 9 (which numbers are not much o/s of his 2006 numbers) would earn him $7.475M. Plus, he’d have a chance for more.
This is the only way I’d sign this walking orthopedic surgeon’s retirement fund.
Luke Hughes hit .319/15 HRs/40 RBIs in 285 ABs last year for AA NB Rock Cats. Maybe the Twins will try Harris and Buscher, see what happens, and then give Hughes a shot.
Again, the biggest problem with Crede is that he has very little plate discipline. Even at his career season in 2006 (3 years ago) he hit .283/.323/.506 107 OPS+ and his career numbers, .257/.306/.447 93 OPS+, are right up there with those of the much maligned Tony Batista, .251/.299/.453 92 OPS+.
If people were frustrated last season with Gomez (.296 OBP), Young (.336 OBP) and Kubel (.335 OBP) chasing bad pitches, wouldn’t be too hot with Crede…
Capcom,
Hughes is worse defensively at third than Buscher, if that could ever be possible… Valencia might get a shot, though if he has a super spring training
If Crede can pump out 25-30hrs and 90-100rbi’s, he’s definitely worth the money. And if the FO is worried about his back, let him DH every third or fourth game. His bat alone shows he deserves to be in the line-up. A year or two ago we were looking at Frank Thomas and Piazza and ??? as a RH power DH. Crede could put up numbers comparable to these washed power hitters.
$11 freakin’ million? Has he been paying attention to what’s been going on around the league? At all?
Burrell didn’t get 11 million. Abreau didn’t get 11 million. Wigginton and Blake didn’t get 11 million.
Jesus CHRIST.
My prior post, item # 11, s/b, of course, $50K (not fifty dollars) if he’s voted the AL AS starting 3rd baseman.
Of course, if he’s voted the starter, then the Twins promptly should pay him and then have the sole option to not allow him to play in the AS game, b/c the luck would be that he’d hurt his back in the AS game.
Also, the post-season payouts would be paid if and only if Crede met the minimum requiements for items 1 (games played), 6 (BA), and 7 (RBIs) and also hits 25 or more HRs.
What I want to know is where is Crede/Boras getting the idea that Crede’s price is going UP. First it was “looking for 5 mil”, then “7 mil”, now we find it’s “11 mil”?
Reports I’m hearing out of Frisco is that they were looking at a 3-5 guaranteed. And they’re the chief competition from the looks of things.
And as thrylos pointed out, sure…those guys got that money last year. But THIS year the market does not support that kind of contract.
There are better players getting paid far less than that. Crede and Boras can kiss off if they think they should get 7/11.
Where else is Crede going to sign?
San Fransisco
La Velle,
It is nice to finally see the NCAA get handed something like that from a judge. They have been taking advantage of these kids for years and I hope they get what is coming to them. As far as Crede, I think we should stay with what we have. It would be nice to see a guy hit a lot of homers, but I enjoy the small ball to much. Besides, if you do double the numbers Buscher and Harris will be just fine.
thry,
I like the range of a paint bucket in describing Buscher and you’re right - he belongs in AAA. If we don’t get Crede then I would be fine with Orlando H. at 2nd, Casilla at SS but am afraid that Gardy would have to play his little buddy at 3rd every day - no way! Clean up your post, T. Go Twins!
How do we pass on a guy that hits with power And play defense?!!! And for potentially half of Beltre or Ramirez’ contract.
Probably, it’s because that Boras would be the big winner, and the Twins can’t handle that. I would hate it too. He put the Twins on Beltre’s No-Trade list to jack up the price. So when the Twins pass on him, they are left with Crede as the only other option. That is why Casey Blake was attractive at the time.
Bobby Abreu just signed for 5 million. At this point if the Twins wait they could get Crede for 3 million. It turns out that they overspent by about 6 million on Punto. If somebody shows up and actually signs Crede for 5-7 million it’s their loss. He’s injury prone and awesome at striking out and not getting on base. He can field and hit homeruns. That = 3 million.
And the ALCS and WS incentives would be paid out only if he met the minimum requirements (per my prior post) & hits 25 or more HRs (per my prior post), AND, plays in the ALCS and WS, but he wouldn’t have to play in the ALDS to get the payment, only meet the minimums and hit 25 or more HRs.
They could even provide other incentives for his post-season performance.
All of the above in the contract, otherwise, there’s no way that I want to take a risk on Crede.
You could also sign Crede for $7 mil, his back does stay healthy and pain-free year, yet he still hits .230 and is a liability. I think you evaluate his health only to the point of deciding to sign him or not. After that pay him for what you would assuming he’ll be healthy all year. $5 or 7 million seems like splitting hairs.
Hey Len3 if The Chronic did wonders for Michael Phelps maybe that’s all Crede needs to make it through the year.
BC,
The Chronic would certainly take care of any residual back pain.
Of course you could also sign Crede and he hits .300 with 30 homers, 100 rbi and plays great defense. It is a crap shoot and the Twins need to make their best assumption and act.
It’s like saying you’d be willing to pay $7,000 for a used car if you were pretty sure it ran well, but would only pay $3,000 for it if you were afraid the engine might blow up after a few weeks. If that’s your thinking, DON’T BUY IT AT ALL!
Walter J
All he would need to do is borrow the Wizinator from some of the Vikings and he would be home free.
I thought that contracts could include things like plate appearances, but not performance based incentives? Am I ‘hangin with Phelps’?
Walter
But if that used car is a Vette - I’d take my chances 
Walter J,
You’re right; but this is MLB and $1.75M isn’t too much to risk, b/c ya gotta figure that you’re going get something for that, even if it ain’t as good as the minimums I’ve listed in my posts.
matt,
Even a Corvette that doesn’t run still looks good parked in your driveway.
Have the Twins and Boras discussed money at all yet?
Who cares how much the Twins give Crede? It’s the Pohlads’ money, and they should spend it!
Blaine,
You gotta be a liberal, because you so quick to throw around other people’s money for your satisfaction.
The Pohlads we’re real quick to take the public’s money for their private enterprise, weren’t they?
thrylos: Everything I’ve read about Frisco is that they weren’t looking at anything more than 5 or so.
The Pohlads we’re real quick to take the public’s money for their private enterprise, weren’t they?
Shouldn’t have elected weak-spinned reps who approved it.
Joe and T:
I guess you like it when rich people f u c k you up the ass.
yes Walter, $$$$$$ have been discussed. That’s why we know about the 7-11 request and the OD roster bonus.
Joe, your base salary is waaaay too low.
Blaine,
The Twins have about the cheapest tix in MLB. Also, the Pohlads contributed almost $100M towards Target Field and the Twins have had several years wherein they lost money, which, on a PV basis, may well wipe out the unrealized capital gain in the value of the team.
The Twins need to always exceed 3M in attendance each year, and really need about 35K attendance every game every year. As I’ve stated in other posts, if this attendance had been reached every year from 2001 - 2008, then today, Santana would be wearing a Twins uniform and the Twins could’ve offered Hunter something around $18M for 4 years, before he became a FA.
The Pohlads also contribute large sums to various charities and other community organizations.
What do you contribute to charity and community orgs?
Go to the games.
The Twins are one of the winningest teams this decade and haven’t come close to averaging even 25K per game over this 8-year period.
Joe, your specifics are hilarious! I love you calling Crede “this walking orthopedic surgeon’s retirement fund”.
I don’t think player’s contracts are that specific. Which manager or player would want to be counting the ~$50k incentives every few games. Most players want to just play.
“Who cares how much the Twins give Crede? It’s the Pohlads’ money, and they should spend it!”
But if they spend it on someone (or soomething) that will get us more wins than Joe Crede, that is why I care!
If you don’t care, because you don’t know enough to care, then I don’t care if you care.
Take care!
Lavelle,
It’s not way too low; it’s what Crede would be worth if his back goes out before he contributes much to the Twins.
Creds’s too big of a risk. If he gets injured early in the season, then he’s Rondel White.
Blaine,
I sincerely hope that you’ve a good medical plan, b/c you need a dose of valium and some therapy.
Settle down, son. I can see that you’re one of those folks that envies the success of others. Since you’ll have to live with this your entire life and it’s clear that you’ve adjustment problems, you’ll need the valium.
Care ful, Sid, you’ll send Mr. Blaine off the edge.
“Care ful, Sid, you’ll send Mr. Blaine off the edge.”
WHO CARES!
j-sin,
Thanks, glad you got a chuckle out of the Crede descrption.
I have no idea of the length, complexity, or detail of players’ contracts.
And “j” means? Just curious.
Sid,
Plain Blaine likely goes to at least one game a year, so we wanna keep him around for that.
LaVelle,
Since you’re in Florida, are you smoking Cuban cordobas?
Joe:
I guess you define “success” as stealing from taxpayers.
Blaine,
Sheesh. I don’t see Pohlads name with Madoff’s. When was he convicted of tax fraud?
Man, you gotta get the envy out of you; you’re going to give to yourself ulcers.
Michael Blaine says:
February 13th, 2009 at 4:43 pm
I guess you like it when rich people f u c k you up the ass.
Glad to see you’re taking a mature approach to the conversation.
I guess you define “success” as stealing from taxpayers.
It’s not stealing when the government gives them permission.
Perhaps you should complain to them. Since they’re the ones that voted for the stadium.
Michael Blaine,
it is not unusual for the state (cities/counties) to subsidize private corporations. That is a decision that is made by elected officials. I am not sure that there are a lot of people who complained when the state of Minnesota bailed out Northwest Airlines with $250+ mil. If there is someone you should complain about, if you disagree with the stadium funding, is your elected officials who passed the bill.
To further the Northwest Airlines analogy, the MSP airport is built with public money by the Metropolitan Airports Commission (a state-owned corporation). So basically, Minnesotan’s built and take care of an airport (that costs more than a stadium). They recover the cost by charging taxes (that the passengers pay). The county gave the Twins some money for the stadium and they will recover by ticket, hotel and food taxes. I don’t see much of a difference other than the Twins are not losing money and Northwest is running itself to the ground.
j-Sin,
Come to think of it, Boras (his staff, actually) would keep track of the numbers, based upon the official scorekeepers’ books and so would the Twins’ accounting dept. So, I don’t see churning the numbers as any big deal.
It’s not like they have to do it for every at bat and then stop games from time-to-time in order for the Twins to cut a check and run to the dugout to pay Crede on the spot.
[…] Twins Insider – […]
Good post LaVelle! I’m surprised. Sure all those other “elite 3B” are making big money, but they all signed their contracts when the market was inflated and out of control.
Unscientific projection or not, I think that the .280-25-85 line is pretty optimistic for Crede. He had similar numbers in 2006, but he was 27 years old that year, and 27 is the age where baseball guys tend to peak. Plus, Crede’s career numbers are nowhere near that solid. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again until someone finally acknowledges it: Crede is a terrible on-base guy. He has a career .257 average and .306 OBP. My projection is that if he signed with the Twins and miraculously stayed healthy all year, he’d be closer to .250-18-60 in this pitchers’ park.
So I don’t know how much the Twins are willing to pay Crede, but I would be willing to send them a $100 check if the promise NOT to sign him! Anyone else want to contribute?
But I’d rather give to Hughes or Valencia a shot at 3rd. I just can’t root for FAs. How many of you root for Blackwater Security Services?
Eat what you grow. (You libs should love this.)
All this talk about what Crede and Borass want is pointless. It’s a buyers market right know in MLB. Take what you can get or take your broken back back to Chicago and play with those losers. Oh yea, they didn’t even offer you any contract. Bish!
As for the stadium finance issue, I think that there is a valid public interest in using tax money to fund a stadium. It generates commerce and is a major source of civic pride. Plus, in this economic climate, anything that provides jobs for the tanking construction industry is a major boon.
But most importantly, baseball players are millionaires, and millionaires pay a lot in income taxes to the state. And every time those grossly-overpaid Yankees and Sox come to town, they all have to pay out-of-state entertainers’ taxes to Minnesota. I admit that I don’t have numbers to back this up, but my instinct is that MN taxpayers will recoup the investment in the Twins’ stadium pretty quickly.
Being the optimistic Twins fan that I am. My guess is that if the Twins do sign Mr. Crede he will have a great first couple months, then get injured, and be out the rest of the year. If he signs somewhere else he will hit 35 bombs, drive in 115 runs, and win the gold glove. Did Buscher really only play in 70 games last year, because watching him play defense, it easily felt like 100+.
It would be fine not to sign Crede, if Brian Buscher disappeared or broke his leg or something of this nature. But if we don’t get a “proven” 3B then we’ll be stuck watching Butcher TRY and play the field. Harris or Crede! NO BUTCHER!
Prediction: The Twins ignore their own doctors’ warnings about Chronic Crede. They offer a VERY fair deal, something like $4.5M guaranteed, incentives to $7.5M. Crede turns it down. Billy Smith walks away, as he should, and in concert with the consensus opinion on this blog, mind you. Immediately, a new truth emerges on this blog. The Twins are lying just to trick us, they’re cheap, they’re idiots, they’re rich (a serious crime in the eyes of so many) …I can here the shrill keystrokes from our pal B.C. Beneke already. Another prediction: Crede p[lays in fewer than 90 games in 2009. As has been argued, why the need for above-market upfront money if he’s healthy?
Do the deal! Our payroll right now is $14 million less than it was in ‘07. It’s not a big risk because they have a solid backup plan in Buscher/Harris. A healthy Crede is the missing piece we need! He’s a great defensive third baseman and could hit up to 30 HR if he’s healthy. If he’s not, we have a good plan B. There’s no reason not to do the deal. Sign him now!
Buscher doesn’t have 3B locked up by any means. He is projected to platoon there with Harris, but there are a couple of other options: Luke Hughes and Matt Macri. Hughes showed some hitting prowess last year in the minors, though he probably isn’t a natural fielder at 3B.
But the bright side is that the Twins whole lineup is MUCH better off right now than it was at this time last year. I would much rather risk playing a young player at third base, even if his fielding sucks, than have to rely on the likes of Adam Everett and Mike Lamb for the left side of the infield!
Actually Joe the Twins avereged 25K+ per game 2005-2008. And if you actually avereage out the last 8 years attendance, they averaged 25,464 per game the last 8 years in the dome (If you’re talking 01-08)
One thing that nobody seems to have brought up:
The Twins don’t need to spend all that money right now just because they happen to have it. Why don’t they save some payroll money right now so that they can take on a veteran to fill a need at the trading deadline? I wouldn’t want to spend money on a loser like Crede, and then not have any left in July when actual GOOD players are being shopped around by all of the teams who can’t contend.
I think the Twins should do what the Angels did last year with Hunter. Fly in, meet with Crede, offer him $5 million and incentives for up to $3 million more. Tell Boras and Crede this offer is open for 48 hours – no more.
If they take it fine. If not, move on. Give them a chance to sign on the dotted line. If they choose not to, then cut off all negotiations, and go with Buscher and Harris.
Iconoclast, I believe the trading deadline possibilities factor into thier decision. Is Seattle stupid enough to hang onto Beltre and move him at the deadline? History say yes.
Lee, my guess is that’s pretty damn close to what’s happening right now.
I won’t “call [you] stupid, b/c I was wrong on the number; I thought that “paid” attendance was less than 25K, but, never mind, you’re missing the point, only 25K plus per game is terrible.
If you want high paid players (to me high paid means just signing what you developed when such player become superstars or a notch below), then you need to average at least 35K per game.
Period, no discussion, end of story.
Go to the games.
Gotta go, dudes, time to hit Via Brazil on 46th street in the City.
Catch up with you later.
Lee,
If they cut off negotiations, and later Crede signs with someone else for $3 miilion, everyone will hate that plan.
The Hunter deal involved the Angels giving Hunter WHAT HE WANTED.
Your Crede deal is NOT WHAT Crede WANTS.
It’s not the same thing.
I guess Beltre would be a decent deadline move this year if the Twins are leading the division.
I would rather see if someone better is available, though. My hope (maybe not too realistic) is that once the Nationals lose 55 games before the All Star Break, they’ll be ready to shop Ryan Zimmerman. I think he would look great on the left side of the Twins’ infield.
Or the Rockies might be more reasonable about trading Garrett Atkins when they find themselves with no hope of competing even in the weak NL West.
Sane:
I wasn’t referring to the high salary that hunter got, but the negotiating STYLE. From reports I read, the Angels did not negotiate with Hunter – they simply said here’s the number, it’s fair. Take it or leave it. They didn’t leave the player, the fans or management twisting in the wind, waiting for a decision. They acted. Quickly. They put a deadline on it.
That style, not the seemingly endless give or take that might be going on.
And if Crede signs with someone else after rejecting that offer, then Twins fans, and management should not hate the outcome. Crede might, for not taking the offer, but that’s his problem.
That’s what I meant.
Right now, I’m smoking Cohiba. But I’m a big Rocky Patel fan.
T and shazel….clean up the language please.
Lee,
I see what you are saying.
I just think that technique works better when Angels-Hunter-type money is offered.
I would rather just wait Boras & Crede out, while preparing for Harris to play 3B.
“How much is Joe Crede worth?”
To answer the question posed by the blog: I would pay him $100 and a case of beer to play third base for my co-ed slow-pitch softball team (we need another dude). But I would be just as happy to send that $100 to Bill Smith if I could convince him to promise NOT to sign Crede.
So, in conclusion, Crede is worth $100.
I would rather just wait Boras & Crede out, while preparing for Harris to play 3B.
This makes sense and Harris at 3B as a starter makes sense, but we discussed ad noseum why this will not happen with the manager of the millennium at the helm… Solution: Sign Nomar Garciaparra as a bench player (part time DH/SS/3B/1B) and send Buscher to Rochester. If they sign Crede, Harris and Garciaparra are on the bench and Tolbert in the minors. I would have much more faith in Nomar pitching hitting for Punto in the 8th in a close game, than Tolbert. Worse case scenario the bench is better.
thrylos98,
It is your opinion that Gardy will choose Buscher over Harris forever.
That is NOT MY opinion and NO ONE KNOWS FOR CERTAIN THE ACTUAL OUTCOME.
I’ll go with my opinion and you can go with your opinion, but neither opinion should be presented as some kind of fact when it is conjecture at best.
And the past doesn’t predict the future with any degree of certainty.
I like the idea of saving the money for the trading deadline. But what is there in the Twins past to indicate that they would spend to upgrade in any real significant way at the trading deadline. I know about Shannon Stewart but that seems to be the exception rather than the rule.
they simply said here’s the number, it’s fair. Take it or leave it.
The problem is that Hunter’s agent isn’t Scott BOras.
Wouldn’t it be more logical to see how much Joe Crede is worth to this team by comparing stats that measure his worth to a team? BA and RBI might be nice, but don’t really help this anaylsis. Let’s look at OBP to see how often he’ll be on base for Morneau to drive in, and let’s check on slugging pct. to see how often he can drive in Mauer the OBP machine. That way we can see how valuable he’ll be hitting between the two (a logical spot for a RH hitter).
MLS,
OBP-BAD!
SLG-GOOD!
Conclusion-??????
MLS - your proposal is reasonable, and Sane’s response is correct. Crede has a pretty good SLG% but a terrible OBP, even when he’s healthy.
But there is absolutely no way that he would be batting between Mauer and Morneau. That would make him the cleanup hitter, and I don’t think that even those who are in favor of signing Crede would propose batting him there! He would likely be the number 6 or 7 guy in the Twins’ lineup, right behind Jason Kubel.
If Crede2006 re-appears, he could bat 5th after Morneau.
Cuddyer 2006 could bat there, too, but I wouldn’t stake my life on either one reappearing!
Crede batting 5th to break up Morneau Kubel wouldn’t be a bad thing (if he’s healthy)
That puts Cuddyer or Young 7th, Punto 8th and Gomez 9th.
If the Twins can put together a lineup with a guy with Young’s potentional batting 7th, that’s really not that bad.
Icono: 2006 Cuddyer would be batting cleanup just like he did in 06
Good point.
If Crede doesn’t drop his price to 5 million or below, don’t do it. I think Buscher and Harris platoon would be perfectly fine. Harris wasn’t all that bad last year and Buscher played well enough last year for him to have more playing this this year.
I can see the Twin putting Cuddyer back at third. Span, Gomez and Young are your OF.
Cuddyer is not going back to 3B any time soon. That was a disaster.
I think a lot of people are making a bit too much out of Buscher’s defense. Sure, he sucks at fielding and throwing, but I think the Twins can afford to have one bad fielder in the infield. Especially since Nick Punto is at short. Say what you will about Punto’s hitting (which was decent last year), but he can catch the ball. His good range should allow him to get to some balls that Buscher can’t.
I don’t know…what’s frustrating about that argument is the supposed reason they didn’t actively go after Wigginton was because of their emphasis on defense at all costs. Sooooooo….if it isn’t actually that important after all, then one should reasonably ask why Wigginton isn’t a Twin right now.
If they saw something in his medical report or something, then so be it, but I would’ve been in favor of bringing his bat and versatility into the lineup for the contract he ended up signing.
Plus the fact that ole’ lobster hands has yet to figure out how to consistenly throw a baseball. Which kinda of a big thing for a 3b.
Iconoclast,
I think you’re right on in your thinking about Buscher’s D. I’m sure his D is acceptable to Gardy because of Punto and Casilla. They can shift towards 3B to cover some of his area. Not optimum, but acceptable. This would not work with Harris at SS because of his limited range.
We’ve been played for saps:
‘Subsequent studies by other academic economists, including a major book on the subject published in 1997 by the Brookings Institution, have largely confirmed Baade’s findings that sports teams and their facilities have little measurable impact on the economic vitality of a community. Perhaps more alarming is a 1999 study by Professors Coates and Humphreys at the University of Maryland. After analyzing business activity in 37 metropolitan areas from 1964 to 1994, they conclude that “In contrast to other existing studies, we find evidence that some professional sports franchises reduce the level of per capita personal income in metropolitan areas and have no effect on the growth in per capita income, casting doubt on the ability of a new sports franchise or facility to spur economic growth.” Why this occurs, they believe, is that sports facilities divert money from other public infrastructure, public safety, education and other forms of economic development, or increase taxes.’
‘As pro team owners hunker down to protect their interests, it is the hapless taxpayer who will get stuck holding the bag for non-performing assets, not to mention the collateral damage from non-performing schools. This is the choice many communities now face, and hopefully more will choose wisely in the future than have done so in the past.’
It’s not fair that we baseball fans in general, and the Pohlad family in particular, make everyone pay for our little hobby — WHETHER THEY HAVE ANY INTEREST IN BASEBALL OR NOT.
It’s disgusting greed on the part of the Pohlads and their henchmen, and selfishness on the part of the Twins fan base.
Just because WE love baseball, doesn’t give us the right to pick someone else’s pocket for it.
Carl Pohlad died with $3 billion in his pocket, with more money rolling in on the backs of even the poorest, most hapless residents of Hennepin County; that’s majorly f@#$ed up.
Mike Blaine,
While I share your distaste for the current state of afairs concerning public financing of sports facilities, It’s not really fair to blame the Pohlad family. One of the first things taught in business is “Don’t leave money on the table”. Carl Pohlad, as well as every successful businessman, understood this. This is the free market business model at work. He asked, we said OK. Without a fundamental change in the model the only way I’m aware of to change this state of afairs is to say no. But the strong interest in their product and the lack of competition drives us to say yes. There have been rare exceptions to this rule. There are a few privately financed facilitys. I think the Redskins stadium is one. The exceptions seem to be “eccentric” team owners.
“It’s not fair that we baseball fans in general, and the Pohlad family in particular, make everyone pay for our little hobby — WHETHER THEY HAVE ANY INTEREST IN BASEBALL OR NOT.”
They actually don’t have to. Don’t purchase anything in Hennepin county, and you don’t pay anything towards the stadium.
affairs, affairs…geesh
The exceptions seem to be “eccentric” team owners
or visionary developers like those folks in LA who are paying 900mil to build a state of the art football stadium and looking for a team to lease it. And they will make money. Lots of it.
The key is in the tax law. Every year a corporation can take as a loss of a 1/27.5th of the value of a building. If a company runs and takes revenues of all the food and shops and a percentage from each ticket, they can break even in 5 years.
That is why it was stupid for Hennepin county not to start a corporation (state owned corporations get the same tax breaks as privately own corporations) and lease the stadium to the Twins (the profits will be money in the tax pool and might actually help reduce the taxes in 5 years) and it is stupid that they do not do the same for the Vikings. Short sided people who do not look further than the end of their term in office.
Dear Michael Blaine:
The Pohlads didn’t force anybody to pay for the new stadium. Your representatives in the Minnesota gov’t took care of that for them.
Sincerely,
Logic
PS: Common Sense is here too.
Just because WE love baseball, doesn’t give us the right to pick someone else’s pocket for it.
And those people who are paying the tax that don’t give a crap about baseball will likely also not give a crap about all the extra money that starts rolling in when the stadium opens right.
Oh wait…
I have read these blogs for weeks and not once have I heard any comment about the possibility of Buscher (who I believe is a developing player) continueing to improve his skills (both defense and offense). After all wasn’t last year just his first in the bigs, and didn’t he earn that chance. Also I do not think his production was all that bad as a platoon (except for power). I am in the ‘very cautious’ camp about Crede, bad backs never completely heal. I agree that if he were as healthy as his agent is saying, he would have no problem with a more incentive laden contract, didn’t Ben Sheets agent say he was good to go and wanted a big guaranteed contract?
“they conclude that in contrast to other existing studies we find evidence….”
“IN CONTRAST TO OTHER EXISTING STUDIES”?
That’s quite a qualifier.
Is there not a medical proceedure in which the back spine of Buscher can be removed and transplanted in order to replace Crede’s? Or that Crede is signed for the purposes of detatching his arm so that it can be used to replace Buschers? Or perhaps your medical proceedures are not yet that advanced.
For the record I am a bigtime Twins fan as I am sure most of you posters are. Having said that, I think the Twins are going to be great this year, I love all their pitching (SP and RP), I believe the quality of their starters AND relievers are going to surprise many. I think BS has done a sneaky good job this off season given all circumstances for now and the future. The only thing I would love to add is a .280+ AVG 25+ HR hitting player (see Delmon Young). I think adding that batter to the line up improves every other bat in the lineup!!!
[…] La Velle E. Neal III of the Minneapolis Star-Tribune reports on the gap between the Twins and Joe Crede: […]
‘Surprise! Stadiums Don’t Pay, After All
by Doug Bandow
October 19, 2003
Doug Bandow, a former special assistant to President Ronald Reagan, is a senior fellow at the Cato Institute who writes frequently on economic and legal issues.
. . .
Public finance experts Roger Noll of Stanford and Andrew Zimbalist of Smith College found in a recent study that “no recent facility appears to have earned anything approaching a reasonable return on investment and no recent facility has been self-financing in terms of its impact on net tax revenues.”‘
The Twins effectively steal from single mothers and the working poor . . . end of story.
It’s immoral.
Trade Thrylos98. He’s an idiot…..
Here is what it boils down to…
Crede is a major health risk, no doubt. Signing him would be a gamble. But, a one year gamble. The twins have shown numerous times in the past they are willing to shell out dollars for one year gambles… so give him 5 mill, up to 8 mill in incentives and lets see what happens. This in no way effects the dollards of players we want to sign long term. After this next year hughes will be at 3b anyways.
Doug Bandow
I bet you don’t know who Doug Bandow is, do you? (At least based on your website)
he is a stern vocal proponent of paleolibertarianism (if you don’t know what this is google it) the author of this book ( http://books.google.com/books?id=Cl73oKs4Ha0C&dq=Doug+Bandow&printsec=frontcover&source=an&hl=en&ei=dTqWSfWUEtKgtwfJmailCw&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=5&ct=result#PPR7,M1 ) most of the text is online and a guy who went on record to say that Bush Jr. was too liberal.
Man, check your sources
Is there any other team interested?? The Giants have already stated they won’t go to 7 million guaranteed and I have not heard of any other teams in the conversation. Is Boras trying to get the Twins to pull a Timberwolves thing and bid against themselves???Crede should take what he can get and start working towards next years contract….
Topp Dogg,
I am fairly convinced that you are either Brian Buscher or you are related to him in some way. Is this true?
This is Doug Bandow:
Douglas (Doug) Bandow is a former columnist with Copley News Service and former senior fellow at the Cato Institute. He served as a Special Assistant to President Ronald Reagan and as a Senior Policy Analyst in the 1980 Reagan for President campaign. Bandow completed a J.D. degree from Stanford in Palo Alto, California in 1979.
In any case, the econometric studies show that public financing of sports stadiums is a terrible deal for the public.
It’s yet another way that the powerful fleece the average taxpayer.
A simple fair contract for Crede:
3MM to attend Sring Training
1MM for making opening roster
2MM for being on team (including IR) June 1
1MM for 20+ HR (need plate appearances to get that many, kills 2 birds with one stone)
1MM for 25+ HR
1MM for 100+ RBI
2MM more for 35+ HR
If the back is as good as you say, you are practically gauranteed 6 million, if it stays good and you produce you get the big bucks you are looking for.
You could maybe add anothe 1MM if you win the Gold Glove (again you have to play most of the games to win this)
Blaine, I’m a subscriber to CATO’s publication and Mr. Bandlow’s numbers are, first and foremost, outdated. They’re also exclusive of income, sales, property, and other taxes paid by the athletes who play in the stadiums. Also, it assumes a certain % of tax forebearance or deferral for income earned from the stadium. It also ignores the recent trend of naming the stadium after the highest bidder.
Most important, and this is why Seattle built Safeco, it ignores the alternate use of the money. For example, if a community were to use the money to increase welfare benefits, then this cost would be many multiples of the loss, if any, a community incurs from building a stadium. It like saying, let’s not build a park in DC this year, instead, we’ll offer free prescription medicine to all medicare clients. This would be a big time loser for hard working taxpayers. Oops, too late, those RINOs already goofed up this.
Blaine,
read that link I posted earlier and see whether you agree with what he has to say as a whole.
Thyrlos 98:
Your 8:21 pm post isn’t good for the Twins. First, no governmental entity can run a pinball tournament, let alone the business of running a stadium. All this would guarantee is that in no time, there’d be overflowing toilets.
Also, the govt. would be an overbearing landlord with constituencies screaming to get more of the stadium’s revenues. So, the govt. would take more than its share and, accordingly, profits wouldn’t be reinvested in the team; e.g., paying to keep home-grown performers, such as Torii and Santana.
Fan guy,
for that $12 million, I’d rather have Beltre (or Rolan)
That’s great, LaVelle; enjoy the life, you most very likely worked off your butt to get to where to are today. If the cigars are Cuban, it just confirms one of my biases; that being that the number one industry of FL is crime; so I figure you can buy a good Cuban cigar at any 7/11.
Joe,
if the government can run an airport profitably (look at the MSP financials) why can’t they run a stadium? Same concept, different application
Blaine, IRO your 9:21 pm post, conjunctions and nouns (”and” when you mean ‘end’) can be very confusing to anyone with an IQ of less than zero. All of us here are Twins’ fans, so we want to help you. Hey gang, let’s buy a first grade reader for Blaine.
What does it matter who it is if you get that performance
What does it matter who it is if you get that performance
well it does…
right now the Twins are a bit messed up. If you noticed the Ayala trade has not been official yet. Wonder why? They need to get someone off their 40-man roster, which they haven’t accomplished yet. If they sing Crede, they would need to get another player off their 40-man roster. They cannot drop the people they added last fall to protect them from the rule 5 draft, so unless they trade a couple, this gets really really hairy…
Punto is a spectacular ss when the game isn’t on the line, put a little pressure on him and he folds like a cheap suit.
I like Buscher, but I like Harris better and would like to see him get the most playing time, seems like times when they need a hit bad, Harris delivers.
for crying out loud sign Crede even though he is a one of the stinking White Sox
Fan guy, I’m a few to the wind; thank God the little wife was able to navigate the Lincoln Tunnel on a Friday in the City. I agree that the variables can be adjusted, but the minimum should be no more than $2M. I prefer my 1.75M, but LaVelle says it’s “waaaaaaaaaaay too low.” I’d prefer to up the variables and at most, go $2M on the guarantee.
Hey Paul says, IRO your 8:10 or so post, amen.
Good point, trade for Beltre
Thylos, 98, is it run by the gov’t or contracted out by the gov’t? Besides, while there always will be exceptions, overall, gov’t. can’t do squat. How has the gov’t done with Soc. Sec. and just about everything else it touches?
Ben Franklin: Those who choose security [from the gov’t.] over freedom will have neither.
T. Jefferson: A gov’t. that can give to anything, can take everything.
Live free or die. Let the Twins run the Stadium and let the gov’t. tax it, subject to the constituency’s right to vote’em out.
That TJ quote s/b “give TO YOU”
Joe,
the airport is a separate corporate entity (to get those depreciation tax breaks I mentioned earlier) that is run by the government. In 2007 MSP made about $125 million (that’s profit after salaries after everything). Same principle with a stadium: Sell food and junk and get a percentage of an airplane ticket (vis a vis a ballgame ticket)
Thrylos 98, listen: Do you want the Twins or the gov’t to get the profit? Do you want the Twins to have the NP and RE to pay for the homegrowns that become quality, if not superstar, players? Besides, do you know that most gov’t agencies don’t have to comply with GAAP accounting principals? For example, Fannie Mae and Feddie Mack, the real culprit in the current financial crisis. Pushed by Democrats such as Barney Frank, Bill Clinton, and Jimmy-boy Carter.
I trust the gov’t. and gov’t. accounting as much as I’d trust Madoff.
From your comments, I can tell that you still are a potential investor to be tapped by Bernie Madoff.
The 40-man roster isn’t that much of an issue. Jones won’t stick with the team anyway and there’s a good chance the Twins will try to trade Humber in a minor league deal. Neshek will be added to the 60-day DL eventually which will allow another move.
Macri and Korecky need to show something to stay with the team as well, and if the Twins pick up Crede there’s a good chance Buscher’s days are numbered too. So they’re not without flexibility.
So, Fannie and Freddie never could’ve passed a SEC examination, thanks to Barney ‘the idiot’ Frank and Smucky Shumer of NY. Good thing that they didn’t have to pass a SEC exam, due to gov’t. exemption.
The Twins effectively steal from single mothers and the working poor . . . end of story.
Oh for crying out loud…they also effectively steal from murderers, drug addicts, and rapists.
And also puppies. I heard Jim Pohlad kicks puppies for sport.
Thanks, T says; that was doggone funny; enough for me to hit the hay; it’s midnight in the City that never sleeps.
Later,
Joe,
I do want to Twins to get the profits but all I am saying is that a government paying for a stadium (or part of it, like it did) could not be such a bad thing (like some commenters here suggest; and I am setting the political stuff aside). Even the mighty Yankees could not afford a stadium on their own.
Ben W,
Neshek cannot go on the DL before opening day. Ok about Korecky, that takes care of Ayala.
As far as Macri goes, here is his career slash line in the minors .277/.344/.467 and here is Crede’s .291/.346/.462. Would you take Crede + some million over Macri?
You know, I think the biggest problem with public subsidies in any industry, is the portion of the public whose take on the deal leads them to harbor a sense of over-entitlement. We have an investment in the stadium, and we have some rights. They are limited.
And for those of you who think the government should not “subsidize” the capitalist system whatsoever, then, to start with, put your money where your mouth is and stay off the highways.
This statement is coming from a guy who opposed public subsidies for the stadium, and was willing to watch his beloved team move or “contract”. This was not because of some bizarre hatred of wealth and all things Pohlad, mind you. I would have dealt with the heartache and clung to my memories of Pedro Ramos, Johnny Klippstein, and Hal Narragon (look ‘em up). But I also understand the need to balance various private and public interests in a very complex time in our history.
Friends, we have a stadium, we have a team to cheer for and to cheer us up, we have each other. We are blessed!
“right now the Twins are a bit messed up. If you noticed the Ayala trade has not been official yet. Wonder why? They need to get someone off their 40-man roster, which they haven’t accomplished yet. If they sing Crede, they would need to get another player off their 40-man roster. They cannot drop the people they added last fall to protect them from the rule 5 draft, so unless they trade a couple, this gets really really hairy…”
As soon as Ayala passes his physical exam at Training camp Monday or Tuesday, ITS OFFICIAL!
Korecky and Macri are disposables.
Stop making up crises that don’t exist! You are starting to convince me that Topp Dogg is a genius.
sid, you’re so mean. You big meannie. Now you apologize, right now.
Neither Korecky nor Macri make Gleeman or Seth’s Top 50 prospects (or anyone else’s that I’ve read lately). Considering that the Twins can’t seem to land their top prospect among all of baseball’s Top 50, my gut tells me that either they won’t be claimed or they should be claimed for the Twin’s benefit.
Sid - Please get some sleep. There should be nothing so confusing as to make a man think Topp Dogg is a genius.
As far as the government paying for part of the new ballpark, how much did they pay for Orchestra Hall? Or the Guthrie? The 2 million + that see the Twins are far more than those other buildings see in a year. Entertainment for the working class! OK, it’s more complicated than that. I just wanted to throw that into the mix.
[…] La Velle E. Neal III of the Minneapolis Star-Tribune reports on the gap between the Twins and Joe Crede: […]
La Velle,
When you get near Tampa, make sure you get to Tampa Sweethearts, for some Arturo Fuente love.
LaVelle…
Sorry. I get a little worked up.
Capcom67, Hughes is projected as a 2B at the MLB level.
Trade for Melvin Mora and be done with it.Should be able to intrigue one of the worst piching staffs in baseball.he would not clogg the bases like mr crede and would be someone they could sign for a few years.Sick of these one year busts we have been getting.Just dont trade Delmon. I think he pressed last year and will be a more solid player this year.
go cubs and brweres twins suck
…Good for you ryan.
Her head grazing the Barney mobile dancing above the crib, ryan’s mommy looks down at him with consternation as he sleeps, sucking his thumb, his constant angry expression in place, the smell of his awful dirty diaper rising to her nostrils. She saunters back to the couch and tries to lose herself by channel surfing the small television that is her only joy.
I don’t mind Harris, I beleive he could be a good player, however if Gardy will play Buscher for more than 100 games at third than Crede is a must sign. He is a gold glover, unlike Buscher whos errors put pressure on the pitchers and lose games. Harris proved to be ok deensivley, however I would still prefer crede. Bottom line: Sign Joe Crede, the Twins have too much salary room, resign Mauer and call it done.
Is there any chance that Crede doesn’t get a deal done with any club until Manny is taken care of for Boras?
Thrylos, I think you are overvaluing Macri.
The Rockies thought so much of him that they traded him for a 3-month rental of Ramon Ortiz. The Twins still have him behind Harris and Buscher on the depth chart, and Hughes and Valencia are close to passing him as well. So he’s definitely expendable.
I have to cut the Twins a break if he won’t go below 7/11. 5/8 seems more then fair. He’ll cave and sign with someone in the next two weeks. I say wait him out. If not, we get 3 months to see if one of our internal options works out. I wonder if Boof, Humber, and another pitching prospects would be enough to get Mora from Baltimore? They aren’t realistically going to contend this year, and he makes a lot of money.
For Blaine and the others b!itching about the stadium. Even if you had valid points, (which I don’t happen to think you do) you’re 3 years too late. This was debated for 11 years. The legislation passed 3 years ago. Give it up already.
Defensively, I find Macri more painful to watch than Buscher.
I can imagine why Crede would want to play here with the FieldTurf!!
If i had a hurt back for 3+ yrs, i would not risk it at the Dome. Only way he signs here over SF (if choice similar $$$) is if he wants a better chance of winning and if he doesnt care for the double switch like i dont…
should have said “I *CAN’T* imagine why…”
I just don’t want to pay the guy $7 million and then watch him sit the bench while we have Buscher and Harris out there anyway…
Like he did for his team last year.
I am getting tired of waiting for Crede, get Kouzmanoff now!
Mora’s a little long in the tooth guys.
Kouz isn’t going anywhere.
Joe Joe the late inning hero is the best option available.
Why don’t the Twinkies go with what they got. It was almost good enough last year! Buscher will be a pleasure to watch at 3B.
Okay, is this a joke? I still don’t understand why so many commenters want to sign Crede. I wouldn’t pay the major league minimum for him!
He has a CAREER OBP of .306. His batting averages the last two years were .216 and .248. He has NEVER walked more than 34 times in a season (just what we need with Delmon Young already saving on opponents’ pitch counts!). Only one time has he hit higher than .261 in more than 200 at bats. The year that he did that was his ONLY good season at the plate, when he hit .283 with 30 home runs. He never came close to duplicating those numbers, despite the fact that he played in a hitters’ park. Move him to the Dome, and he’ll be even worse.
Want some perspective? Crede’s career average of .257 is just six points higher than the Twins’ 2006 3B failure Tony Batista, whom we all remember much too well. And Batista actually has a higher career SLG. Crede is only 2 years younger than Batista was when he signed with the Twins. And whereas Batista had spent a year playing in Japan, Crede has spent the better part of two years on his couch recovering from injuries.
I understand that many fans are frustrated because the Twins have not made any major moves this offseason. But that is not a justification for this move. I would rather see the Twins do nothing than watch them sign this guy and make their team worse!
ditto. unless $1 million with incentives…
That’s the key dick smothers…It was almost good enough last year. I’m sick of “almosts.”
Buscher a pleasure to watch play 3b?? I can see that if you were injected with horse tranquilizer or something, but that’s about it.
His nickname is lobster hands for a reason.
Twins right now are better than the Yankee’s. When Buscher hits his stride this year you all will be glad the Twins past on the over paid often injured Joe blow Crede.
The biggest problem for Crede (besides $$) is artificial turf.
Do you recall a certain 2B who played sometimes for the Twins a few years back before being traded to the Mets?
Joe,
First of all, thanks for the amen.
But, you’re pretty much an antagonistic SOB when you’ve had a few, ain’t ya. You were a little mean spirited in a couple of your posts directed at Blaine. Don’t be so hard on him just because you understand the dynamics involved better than him. You don’t treat children that way when they show ignorance do you? I know you don’t treat your kids like that.
I hope what I read came from alcohol. Cuz I like your mind sans that stuff.
Nice Chronic reference LEN!
You never been on a ride like this before, with a producer who can rap and control the maestro.. At the same time with the dope rhyme that I kick… You know and I know I flow some more funky shhhhh.
Fo shizzle…
The Twins have the money to spend on a one year deal for Crede. If he doesn’t pan out, its not going to affect the signing or salary talks going into 2010. A recent MLB.com article by Kelly Thesier states the Twins are still interested, while the Giants have backed out. It seems right now, based on the market, the Twins may get their wish of a $7-8 million deal that includes incentives. If that’s the case, there should be no reason not to take a chance on a Third Baseman who won the Silver Slugger Award in 2006, and was an All-Star in 2008. Also keep in mind he won a World Series ring in 2005, batting .289/4 HR/11 RBI in the playoffs, including 2 HRs in the World Series (in 4 games). Crede is 30 years old, relatively young. When we signed Batista, he had missed the entire 2005 season, didn’t even play. Crede played last year and showed he was dominant until his back flared up again. Should we not sign Joe Mauer to a long term deal because his knee might flare up again? Should we dump Liriano because he had surgery? Injuries are a part of the game, and many, many players come back from injuries and perform at a high level. I don’t believe the FieldTurf will be an issue, but I suppose the Twins can talk it up and use it as leverage to get Boras to come down. Even if Crede only plays between 100-130 games this season, he will produce more than our other options. If we would have signed Blake for $14 million (37 years old), why not take a chance on Crede? I see the Twins signing Crede before Spring Training starts.
Satan (Boras) heard Pohlad publicly admit he would like to see Crede in a Twins uniform. Boras is playing the Twins against themselves. As a huge fan, this is getting old. The Giants are not expecting Crede to sign with them but made an offer that is obviously not to Satan’s liking. If Crede was represented by anyone else he would already be a Twin.
done. bored. exhausted.
move cuddy to 3B after giving him some midol.
move DY to RF.
move Span to LF.
blellef,
You might have some great points in that. Boras is a scumbag, but he’s the best agent in the game, and kind of goes hand in hand with being a scumbag. I think that The Twins need to put an offer of 6 million guarenteed with up to 3 million dollars more in reachable bonuses, and make it a firm offer.
An offer would atleast show me that the Team is serious, and not just insulting us like they have every year for the last 6 (going to bring in that big free agent from Piazza to Frank Thomas to Garciaparra that never happened… to the Casey Blake’s, Ty Wigginton’s and for some stupid reason not going after Cabrerra or Hudson for the infield…
blellef: Pohlad said he wanted Crede, but also that we would trust his FO to work out the contract.
Pohlad’s going to put his faith in the FO to get the right deal and will sign the contract if it comes.
Those of you apoplectic at the thought of the Twins spending a little money can relax.
It’s not going to happen.
