Believe it not, this is about JUAN CRUZ
Posted on February 15th, 2009 – 9:55 PMBy La Velle
I touched on this in my story for Monday’s ink-on-paper editions.
A new wrinkle has come up that could make it easier for the Twins acquire someone like righthander Juan Cruz, who’s considered one of the best set up men of the free agent class - and someone the Twins have talked about internally.
Cruz, 30, was 4-0 with a 2.61 ERA last season for Arizona and has struck out 535 batters in 515 career innings - although he’s been known to walk a couple more batters than he should. Cruz also is a Type A free agent, which means any team that signs him would have to give up their first-round pick in the June draft - and the Twins aren’t willing to do that.
There have been rumblings that Major League Baseball, which is aware that Type A free agents like Cruz and infielders Orlando Hudson and Orlando Cabrera have been hindered by the compensation rules, are willing to make it easier for teams to sign then trade those free agents. For example. Arizona could sign Cruz to a contract that the Twins are willing to take on. The Twins and Diamondbacks would then work out a trade for Cruz. The Twins could land Cruz without losing a draft pick.
“I have heard the rumor,’’ Twins GM Bill Smith said about the sign-and-trade possibility. “I It’shave not received anything official from Major League Baseball.’’
I’ll repeat that a couple hoops would have be to jumped through for the Twins to pull off a transaction for Cruz. But if a sign-and-trade possibility exists, there’s no reason why the Twins can’t at least have a talk with the D-Backs about Cruz.
53 Responses to "Believe it not, this is about JUAN CRUZ"
Let’s try this:
“But if a (sign-and-trade, trade, free agent signing, contract extension) possibility exists, there’s no reason why the Twins can’t at least have a talk with the (other team, other team, agent, agent) about (player).
Yet, somehow they keep finding that “no reason”, eh?
What the eff?
This isn’t about Joe Crede.
If Cruz can be had without giving up a draft pick, the Twins would not be the only team interested.
I’d rather see Hudson than Cruz, but either one would probably upgrade the team.
Frankly, I’m surprised the Yankees haven’t signed him yet because all it would cost them is a FOURTH round pick.
Coupled with the fact that they could just sign any international player they want with the the $ they have.
I haven’t heard anything about the Yankees even being interested in Cruz. Maybe it’s because they overrate their own pitching prospects as much as the sportswriters do.
Seems odd that they would make this sort of ‘adjustment’ to what’s considered acceptable practices so late in the off season. If I were a team that signed a Type-A already, giving up my draft pick, I’d be a bit upset.
In fact, if I were the Brewers and lost some Type-A’s and I was looking at getting low draft picks instead of 1st rounders when I could have done a sign and trade and gotten more value, I’d really be upset.
I also agree with Ben that there would be several teams talking to the D’Backs… but yeah, the Twins should definitely look to take advantage, especially since it appears they may have some roster issues.
Congrats, LaVella, for uncovering this angle — perhaps the Twins have a spot for you in the front office! 
I’m with JC here. While this sounds cool for guys who still haven’t been signed, it seems like a HUGE slap in the face to those teams that already have.
But then again, when’s the last time ol’ Selig has actually done what makes sense vs. what’s been a knee-jerk reaction.
This would set an interesting precedent if MLB was to go forward — either in terms of making the draft pick compensation for losing/signing free agents “optional” or adjusting the way Types A and B free agents are determined (I believe those definitions were adjusted only a couple years ago anyway).
I highly doubt that the Twins would be the ones to benefit first from such a development — no doubt other, more aggressive, risk-taking (others would say “competent”) front offices would be quicker to jump on this, but it definitely bears following.
One would assume, of course, that the player (Cruz, in this case) would condition his signing with his old team on their willingness to trade him to a team of his choosing.
I mean, would Cruz sign back with the DBacks knowing they intended to flip him in a trade, without wanting any say in the team/situation he goes to? That would seem to be unlikely to me.
[…] Twins Insider – […]
Crikket, I’m sure he would come to terms with a team he preferred, sign with the old one for similar terms, then be traded. Maybe a little restructuring after the trade.
But we would have to assume the trade could be written right into the one he signs with the old team. You can put anything into a contract now days.
La Velle, I think you should mention also that this would make sense for the Twins since Ayala hasn’t had his physical yet, therefore he still isn’t officially a Minnesota Twin. Maybe they would quickly void his contract a la Gagne?
lots of whining little excitement what a joke.we have alot going good, open your eyes. Still time to sign crede or someone that could help.dont jump ship quite yet.
What the hey, sign Cruz and both Orlandos as well as Crede and call it an offseason…
This would be the best thing the Twins could do. Regardless of who’s manning third, this team will be as good as it’s BP. That’s just the way it is in baseball today.
[…] clear of free agents Juan Cruz, Orlando Hudson, and Orlando Cabrera because of their Type A status. MLB could try to hep these players by allowing some sort of sign-and-trade deal between teams. From the Star Tribune: There have been rumblings that Major League Baseball, which is aware that […]
I’ll never happen.
It’ll never happen
[…] was all over this […]
You’ll never happen.
This actually makes it worse for the Twins chances IMHO. Not only would more teams get involved, but Arizona would expect a decent prospect in return since they are foregoing a first round draft choice that they will get as compensation.
I think the Twins should sign him to a one-year deal now, give up the draft pick, then if/when he walks next year as potentially still a Type A, we get the pick back. Not entirely sure how the classification works - anyone know if he would be likely to keep Type A if he is a set-up man instead of closer?
If they can sign Cruz,great.Some people worry about how signing too many RP’s will affect the futures of Boof and Humber.A mid-market team can never have too many major league caliber players.We can always trade them to teams that can pick them up without having to worry about waiver wires.The Yanks needed a 3b(like we do now)they just bought the best player in baseball,AROD,we don’t have that luxury.
Interesting. This would mean, as JC says, that already signed Type A’s would have missed out on a broader list of suitors–but so did last year’s Type A’s too. In this financial climate, government steps to loosen up the market is warranted, and that’s what this would be.
Currently, it looks like the Brewers will get nothing for Sheets. If MLB makes this rule change, I wonder if MIL will do a sign and trade to get SOMETHING for Sheets?
Would the Twins have to trade for Cruz–would Humber do it?
Meant to write “what” would they have to trade to get Cruz?
let’s start a chant for crede and see if this will get bill smith all fired up to finally pull the trigger on a nice free agent pick up…..ALL TOGTHER NOW CREDE,CREDE,CREDE
There is a flow in this.
1. Cruz is an unsigned free agent and is not the property of Arizona. If the Twins and Arizona were to discuss a player that is not there property it could embark upon claims of collusion.
2. Why would AZ go through this sign and trade. Cruz will sign and they will get a 1st round pick, regardless? Why blink and settle for something less? I could see AZ doing this in April or May but not in Feb.
There is a flaw in this.
1. Cruz is an unsigned free agent and is not the property of Arizona. If the Twins and Arizona were to discuss a player that is not their property it could embark upon claims of collusion.
2. Why would AZ go through this sign and trade. Cruz will sign and they will get a 1st round pick, regardless? Why blink and settle for something less? I could see AZ doing this in April or May but not in Feb.
IMO, teams that avoid Type A&B FA signings because of the Draft Pick loss, would also hate to give up prospects in the proposed sign-and-trade deals.
I’d bet that the rule change will have minimal effect on the unsigned Type A&B Fa’s.
Maybe instead of of the Twins losing the first round pick, they just give AZ one at end of the round.
It seems like this would be simplier
Cruz might be threatening to sit out past the draft before signing, which means the D-Backs wouldn’t receive any compensation.
“Why would AZ go through this sign and trade. Cruz will sign and they will get a 1st round pick, regardless? Why blink and settle for something less?”
Steve is right.
Anything that this rule change adds to the buyer’s (Twins?) motivation, it takes away from the seller’s motivation.
So Cruz, Cabrera and Hudson’s potential FA deals will now be stymied by their former teams instead of by their potential future teams.
On the other hand, Arizona could ask for MORE VALUE than just a #1 draft pick if they thought they could get it.
Personally I’d just give up the draft picks to sigh this guy…
LaVelle,
“Cruz might be threatening to sit out past the draft before signing, which means the D-Backs wouldn’t receive any compensation.”
Yes, but they would have a signed contract with Cruz and they could hold on until the right deal was offered.
That would pretty much take away FA status from Cruz.
Can we give them Matt Moses? He was a first round pick.
[…] Hudson and Cabrera, along with outstanding setup reliever Juan Cruz, are wearing that Type A compensation tag, and all three are way too good to not be working. La Velle E. Neal of Startribune.com suggests MLB might follow the NBA’s sign-and-trade lead to get those three back on rosters. […]
Not good in the big picture
The compensation for free agents lost is one aspect of the collective bargaining agreement that helps tilt toward competitive balance. Were this to be watered down it would work, however slightly, to the disadvantage of non-major market teams.
Hudson and Cruz had an option: agree to the arbitration offered. It is in the union’s interest to change the provision. As such it should be used as a bargaining chip, when negotiations reopen, in an attempt to mitigate the effect of the runaway spending by the Yankees (Mets, red Sox, Mets…)
What happens if the twins sign 3 type A free agents? What do they give up then?
Since the Yankees would have to give up only a 4th round pick to sign a Type A while a team who owns the rights to the Type A pick would be giving up the chance to get a 1st round pick, why wouldn’t teams just trade through the Yankees where the value of the player going in return would have to be less?
Just a thought…
They dont give anything up exept $$$ in this sign and trade thing so stop sayin prospects
The D-backs would NEVER give up an A type free agent like Hudson or Cruz without a 1st pick draft agent or an equal equivalent.
Can somebody tell me what the love affair is with Joe Crede? Is he a good player? Yes… when he is PLAYING. Have we all missed the fact that the guy played less than 100 games last year. And more importantly- he missed those games with a bad back. Anybody who knows the game of baseball, knows that a back injury is one of the worst kinds of injuries you can sustain. It is, nearly, impossible to maintain any type of work-out routine, and it is one of the worst injuries, in terms of chance of recurrence. So what we have here, is a gamble. And when is the last time that the Twins WON a gamble? I am fairly young, so I will concede, that I dont know everything there is to know about the history of the Twins. What I do know, is the Twins recent history of bringing in guys that were past their prime, or had issues (whether it be health, charecter, or otherwise). Everett, Lamb, Hernandez, White, etc. Even Delmon Young. He may not even make the major league club, this year. So, do you really think it is a good idea, for this team to take a chance on Crede? I hope I am wrong about this, but I guarentee, that if the Twins sign Crede- he plays less than 100 games. For the money that we are going to have to pay him- is that a good idea? I dont think so. The Twins have thrived for years on prospects. Not every superstar that has come through the Twins organization, was drafted by the team. But the majority were acquired at a very young age and spent some solid time in our farm system. I love my Twins, and certainly dont wish them any bad luck… I just cant see this turning into anything other than a money eating mistake.
Also I could see the D-backs holding on to Cruz. The only reason Cruz didn’t resign with the D-backs was because he wanted to test the Free Agent market since he had never done that before and the fact that at the time the D-backs didn’t have the resourses to keep him.They have since freed up some money and giving up a chance at a first round pick and keeping Cruz for themselves frees up the money aloted for the free agent which they could easily cover in Cruz’s contract. Az wants him back so they won’t give him up for anything less than a 1st round pick, a top prospect,something better than the last 2 mentioned or cash.
Rosenthal has some additional info. http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/9227990/MLB-may-amend-Type-A-free-agent-rules?CMP=OTC-K9B140813162&ATT=49
As he points out, the DBacks have some motivation to make a reasonable deal. Getting even a couple of low-to-mid level prospects is still better than getting nothing… and nothing is exactly what they’ll get if Cruz doesn’t land a home until after the June 15 draft.
There’s a reasonable chance to take, if you’re Cruz, that a couple of teams will have injuries or performance issues in their bullpens by June and you’ll command more from desperate teams than you are able to get right now. If I were him, I’d wait it out rather than re-sign with AZ for a fraction of what I’m worth.
ANDY-When was the time the Twins won a gamble,try Johan as a Rule5 on for size.I wonder if they are still complaining on the Astros board?We hear constantly about all the mistakes that Terry Ryan ever made.
My guess is Cruz will sign for 3 years, the twins would likely give up Humber (since boof is hurt) and a low level prospect.
Not sure if the Twins will like the length of contract (usually a bad deal, but AZ doesn’t care and MN will have no say in the deal). But the price will be ok.
DO IT!!!
The Twins should get this guy. I would rather see Cruz in the ‘pen than Crede at third.
They should trade Humber or Bonser if possible, since those guys are out of options anyway. But I wouldn’t blame Arizona for not really wanting either one.
This is the guy we NEED. Cruz in the eighth Nathan in the ninth. Plus he strikes out alot of guys. This guy is worth the twins probable late mid first round pick. 71 strike outs in 51 2/3 innings.
Geno- thanks for not paying attention to my entire blog, and therefore making my point for me. Johan was brought in as a prospect, not a veteran with questions. Since you are so eager to answer my questions- perhaps you can answer the initial one. What is with the love affair for Crede?
Cruz would represent a power arm for the back of Minnesota’s pen; his average heater was 94.3 mph in 2008. Cruz’s big-time strikeout stuff is accompanied by poor control, however.
