Sunday with Joe Crede
Posted on February 22nd, 2009 – 12:51 PMBy La Velle
Gotta write fast. The system is shutting down for several hours today for maintenance.
First of all, Joe Crede is big. Bigger than a lot of Twins remember him, Not in a fat way. More of a this-man-fills-a-doorway big.
Crede also is very polite. He stood straight up with his hands behind his back as he answered questions at today’s press conference. He then worked out with his new team. He lined the first two batting practice pitches he saw off the screen that protected the pitcher. He lifted one over the left field fence during his second round of b.p. He eventually made his way to the batting cages, where hitting coach Joe Vavra flipped him some balls.
He has a polished swing. No wasted movements.
Was it strange to not put on a White Sox uniform?
“It takes a little bit to get used to. But it’s a good change of scenery and hopefully it’s for the better.”
As for his back, Crede said it took him several days to recover from the first back surgery after the 2007 season. But he was on a plane headed home two days after his procedure last October in Dallas, once in which fluid that was pressing up against a nerver in his back was removed. He’s very confident he’s got it licked now.
Twins manager Ron Gardenhire said Crede will be allowed to back off workouts if he needs to.
As for reliever Juan Cruz, reports that the Twins are close to a sign and trade deal aren’t true, according to a person with knowledge of talks. And all indications are that this deal will be hard to pull off. It’s going to be hard enough to agree to terms with the agent. Getting the Diamondbacks to agree on a trade might be even tougher. Things could always change but, for now, there’s little reason to feel optimistic that the Twins can land Cruz.
One last thing. Fans of local product Ben Hendrickson take note: The Twins have signed the pitcher to a minor league deal. He’ll try to make Class AAA Rochester.
282 Responses to "Sunday with Joe Crede"
thanks La Velle
kinda depressing news on cruz for a sunday afternoon
La Velle
Any chance that you will show the Crede news conference on here sometime today??
w/out giving away the deep freezer, get Cruz. Hard to see the Twins not winning the division if we pick up Cruz. Really, our only hole except maybe LNP’s bat.
bigdawg, the two best free agent pickups for the Twins have been for Crede and Punto, that gives them a solid left side of the infield. If Casilla can play well, that gives them solid play at every position on the field.
I think that we already have an abundant amount of possible set up men. Crain, Mijares, and Ayala could all get the job done.
Hendrickson is from Sartell. His dad is super cool, calls into KFAN all the time. If you listened to PA and crackhead, you’ve heard Ben’s dad a lot. Ben is a lousy pitcher and this signing is for AAA depth I’m sure. There is little to no chance he actually pitching for the Twins.
How is Mijares’ head? Heard he had a dispute with the winter league coach.
Steve H says:
February 22nd, 2009 at 1:04 pm
bigdawg, the two best free agent pickups for the Twins have been for Crede and Punto, that gives them a solid left side of the infield. If Casilla can play well, that gives them solid play at every position on the field.
Punto can’t hit and Casilla is a lousy fielder and weak hitter. Nothing good about those 2.
I caught a Crede home run at the Cell on my birthday during that amazing 2006 season. After throwing it back on the field (maybe I was a little too jazzed up) I was screamed at by a few thousand Sox fans and then kicked out of the game.
I guess it all comes full circle with Crede now set to pick and rake for the TC. This guy is a 100% Twins’ brand player and I couldn’t be happier he is now playing for the good guys.
Hey Chicago - “He Gone!” - Ouch
Let me get this straight. Coming to terms with Cruz’s agent will be tough to do?? Maybe someone should tell him that spring training has already started and a team that some predict to win the AL Central wants him to be there 8th inning guy! What is he waiting for? Maybe he wants to pitch long relief for the Yankees or something.
Love the Crede deal, but it should be all hands on deck to land Cruz. The D-backs have a stellar starting rotation and then a ton of holes. We should be able to put together a trade package for them. We need some heat in the pen. Mijares has the tools, but maybe not the head for an entire MLB season. Cruz would make us a bonifide contender. How many games did we blow last year in the 6-8th innings??? Answer: Enough to lose the division! Cruz would be the difference!
Dan, I was being sarcastic about Punto, I would rather see Harris at short. I sill think Casilla has promise, otherwise maybe Twins can give Tolbert a shot there. Too bad the Twins didn’t get Hudson and then move Casilla to short, which may be his better position.
What is Arizona waiting for?? From what has been said Cruz has already threatened to sit out till June if he has to. If that happens Arizona won’t get anything in return for him.
Thanks La Velle! Keep it coming.
Hockey Guru
Stick to hockey; Casilla is a good defender with a .974 FP and can turn the DP like nobody’s business; he has a solid, scrappy bat as well. Punto can’t knock guys in, but he gets on base and scores plenty. Obviously he is overpaid, but you won’t get many more web gems out of any other guy than him. I am happy he is here (even with the headfirst sliding, poor run production and temper tantrum).
If Crede and Cuddyer can each hit 20 HRs that is all it will take to push the Twins over the fence to the playoffs. Power was the only thing they were missing last year.
Cruz would be nice! We’re going to need a big right handed arm if Crain doesn’t recover his 2005 form.
Harmon, you’re half-right - they were missing power and a reliable bullpen.
so he’s big, hope he’s not on the juice.
I’m not buying it. Loove your reporting, LEN, but this is just the company line. Last we heard something similar, the Twins and Crede were at a “stalemate.”. A few hours later, we learned the deal was done. I think this Cruz deal is nearly done. Before I said 20%, now I’m saying 50-60%, at least. And I think we could hear LEN reporting a different story in a matter of hours..again.
Imagine Crede, Morneau, Kubel, Cuddyer, and Young could all hit 20+ Dingers.
Power and cruz is what we needed last year….
He very well could have been on a very mild doctor prescribed steroid when he was recovering from surgery.
AM,
“Before I said 20%, now I’m saying 50-60%, at least. And I think we could hear LEN reporting a different story in a matter of hours..again.”
How do you set the odds on something, of which you know nothing.
Meaningless numbers are wonderful fodder for fools.
You guys I really think Crain and Mijares could handle the 8th innings. Crain was recovering from shoulder surgery last year and still put up descent numbers. He’s got good velocity and nasty breaking stuff. Assuming that he’s found his good control again he’ll be fine. Mijares also appears to be the real deal. Plus, we have Ayala now and he WANTS the ball in pressure situations say what ever you want about his stats last year.
Ben W
I understand what you mean but just think of how many games they would not ave had to rely on the bullpen if they could have had a bigger lead because of a few more HRs
Yup Nicky Punto gets on base… good enough for a career .319 obp. Which is actually pretty good for a Twin.
We could do worse than him at short, and Harris is a nice option to back up 2nd/3rd and play a little SS.
I think imagining Crede, Morneau, Cuddyer, Kubel and Young all hitting 20+ homers is going to be the only way it happens.
Time will tell Mr.Fatty Fat jason dumb head.
Crede is a good glove-no bat kind of player. He made a lot of errors last year however, due to his bad back, and probably getting old and worn out.
He needs to shorten his swing to protect his back. A back can’t take the twisting that a pull hitter exerts on it. He needs to learn to swing naturally. He needs to use his arms to take the ball up the middle or to right field. He should choke up a little, to help avoid swinging too big. Choking up will help change his mindset. Stay away from the uppercut swing. That is awful on backs too. Lower the plane of the ball off the bat.
In 1991, the Twins worked with Mike Pagliarulo to shorten his swing, and take the ball to the opposite field. He became a better player. He made the successful transition away from being a dead pull hitter, and helped the Twins win a World Series that year. Perhaps Crede can do the same.
kynlie:
“Power and cruz is what we needed last year….”
Not really, kynlie. LAST year at this time, we had question marks at all five (yes, five) starting spots in the rotation. We didn’t have answers at 2B, SS, 3B, CF, LF, or DH that people felt good about. Other than closer (Nathan), long relief (Guerrier), and setup, (Neshek) the bullpen lacked depth in the view of most, Consensus was 75 wins, tops.
THIS year, we were short RH power to protect Morneau, 3B defense, RP setup, and an everyday SS in the view of many.
[…] Twins Insider – […]
“Craig Goes Deep” what are you talking about? Are you a doctor? Crede is going to help this team out immensely. We now have an everyday 3rd baseman with power and great glove. It allows Harris to stick as a utility player, where he is best, and gives us some power from the right side. We didnt sign Crede to bat .300, we signed him to hit HR’s and pick it at 3rd…Im jacked about the signing and cant wait for the season to start!
The bully was charged with 27 losses near as I can tell. A full third of those to Matty G. Obviously, that’s alot of bullpen losses. Even the Tigers didn’t have as many. So clearly the lynchpin here lies in the starters shouldering an extra inning and not extending the previously talented bullpen. Juan Cruz could very well make a huge difference, but so too could RA Dickey and Luis Ayala, if not as much individually as combined.
The Twins were not lacking in HR power last year. They scored the third highest number of runs in team history. The two top run scoring teams in Twins team history didn’t have much HR power either.
The Twins scored a lot of runs, by getting on base and hitting for high average. Crede doesn’t add anything to that, so the Twins run production could decline. He’s a low OBP, low AVG guy. A handful more of HR won’t help make up the difference. Like Ozzie said, his fielding should help the Twins pitching staff. Pitching is what it’s all about, so it could be an okay move. Run productivity may drop, but you have to keep out the runs also.
Craig predicts that Crede will hit 9 HR in 2009. Remember, I predicted Delmon would hit 8-9 in 2008, when the Twins acquired Delmon. He hit 10.
medschoolmatt says:
February 22nd, 2009 at 1:25 pm
Hockey Guru
Stick to hockey; Casilla is a good defender with a .974 FP and can turn the DP like nobody’s business; he has a solid, scrappy bat as well. Punto can’t knock guys in, but he gets on base and scores plenty. Obviously he is overpaid, but you won’t get many more web gems out of any other guy than him. I am happy he is here (even with the headfirst sliding, poor run production and temper tantrum).
typical baseball “fan,” if someone shows up on web gems they must be good.
Harmon says:
February 22nd, 2009 at 1:26 pm
If Crede and Cuddyer can each hit 20 HRs that is all it will take to push the Twins over the fence to the playoffs. Power was the only thing they were missing last year.
actually, the Twins weren’t really all that good at anything last year. However, they had one of the highest averages in the history of the game with runners in scoring position. that is something that has no chance of happening again.
Not all the blame can go on the BP last year, most, yes, but how many of those 27 losses were due to errors that led to unearned runs which in turn led to BP losses? I would guess at least a third of those.
Hockey Guru Dan says:
February 22nd, 2009 at 1:09 pm
Steve H says:
February 22nd, 2009 at 1:04 pm
bigdawg, the two best free agent pickups for the Twins have been for Crede and Punto, that gives them a solid left side of the infield. If Casilla can play well, that gives them solid play at every position on the field.
Punto can’t hit and Casilla is a lousy fielder and weak hitter. Nothing good about those 2.
Casilla is a lousy fielder and a weak hitter huh???
Stick to hockey buddy!
As far as Cruz he’d be a nice addition but he’s not desperately needed. We have enough depth up here and in the minores to fill the 8th inning role.
The Twins obviously hated Buscher and Harris in the field. I can’t really blame them. They are awful hacks, and Crede potentially is a huge improvement.
Craig was opposed to signing Crede, and wanted to give Buscher and Harris another chance, but the Twins were right, Buscher and Harris are truly awful in the field.
It’s time now to release Buscher, Harris and Macri. The Twins don’t need those guys anymore. None of them can field. Time to free up some roster space.
The negotiations with Cruz/AZ are not dead and still fluid.
Does anyone else think Craig goes deep is off? Run production down because of Crede’s avg? I don’t think so craig.
Craig goes deep…
The Twins were not lacking in HR power last year.
Do you watch baseball? The Twins were 28th in baseball last year hitting something like 111 home runs. And thanks so much for telling us that Delmon WAS going to hit 8-9 HR last year and a big splash this year with 10.
Wow. Brilliant insight, there!
Pete:
What is/are your source/s on that info?
Crede will have the best BA of his career and hit 25 HR’s. You heard it hear first.
Craig goes deep….
Do you know how MLB rosters are formed. There are 40 guys on their MLB roster that are protected, and you want us to RELEASE THREE OF THEM, outright….
Who are you going to add to the 40 man roster, Corey Koskie..
My goodness there are some people that really think they know baseball but all they really know is my good friend, Jack __ __ __ __!
“Does anyone else think Craig goes deep is off?”
toemas,you must be new to this blog, if you have to ask that question.
“You heard it hear first.”
How does that compare to “book it”?
Which is potentially more innaccurate?
Before the start of last season, I prdicted Delmon would hit 8-9 HR. People were calling me names and saying I was way off. The name callers were saying he would hit 30-40 HR. Well, he hit 10.
Next season, I predict Crede will hit 9 HR. I think my prediction will come very close.
Nobody should respond to any of the Craigs at any time. It is not worth it. Ignore the Craigs, do not even discuss the Craigs, and you’ll be much happier.
“It’s time now to release Buscher, Harris and Macri. The Twins don’t need those guys anymore. None of them can field. Time to free up some roster space.”
You can’t overestimate the value of free roster space this time of year.
Actually, unless the Twins are planning to add players who need roster protection, I think you just did.
Craig:
How many HRs will he have THIS season in how many ABs? And, will Crede be playing with us next season or is that prediction for Crede with another team?
I didn’t realize you have to register to post on this so don’t jump on me for being new, been reading the threads for a while. Where does this talk about Casilla being a weak player come from. It’s interesting that here in Chicago more than a few commentators have said straight up they’d rather have him than Alexi Ramirez given age and potential. A .974 fp in his first full season at the position and a nice dp turn should put him above average in the field going forward. A .280 average, good rbi numbers, speed, and a knack for advancing runners which he undoubtedly has shown makes him a solid #2 hitter. Not saying he’s an HOFer, but a solid piece on a contending team. Finally add in the fact that statistics can’t account for, which was the energy the team played with (and amount of games it won) once he was firmly ensconced in the lineup last year. Such talk about Casilla furthers my feeling that the combination of the steroid era plus an overreliance on sabermetrics by armchair scouts has really devalued such solid baseball.
Incidentally, I don’t think the club should feel huge pressure to get a deal done for Cruz. He is a talent, but I think Ayala will help quite a bit and Crain should be better. Cruz is good and would be a great addition, don’t get me wrong, but I don’t think acquiring him is a must.
sy, is that like asking the difference between 1X0 and 2X0?
The Twins will lose a little run production by adding Crede, but if his his good fielding returns, he should be able to keep out plenty of runs.
Harris and Buscher are sentimental favorites of mine, but they are such awful fielders that it would demoralize the pitchers having those two in the field.
The Twins were correct to try and improve. Buscher and Harris are now pretty much useless. They can’t pinch run. They can’t come in as fielding replacements. They are slow-footed fielding hacks. Release them.
Hey Pete,
Keep the insightful reporting coming!!
Don’t tell anyone else your source though! 
At least you have given me some optimism today!
TwinsFanontheChiSouthSide - Casilla had a pretty good rookie season in my opinion. People on blogs just like to rant, as I’m sure you’ve noticed.
Furthermore, one who posts here often mentioned that Casilla had excellent numbers in winter ball.
He’s young and we really can’t be sure what we have there yet, but there is reason for optimism.
bop,
“sy, is that like asking the difference between 1X0 and 2X0?”
Its like asking the difference between “You heard it hear first.” and “you heerd it here first.”
TFCSS, welcome, and thanks for the thoughtful contribution. Casilla may be underrated, especially by the numbers guys, but exacerbated by some of his rookie mistakes and inconsistencies and the obvious frustration felt by some of his coaches. I’m optimistic about him. I see surprising strength, incredible athleticism, and a developing maturity and alertness about him. He will probably surprise, either on the down side or the upside, and he will be interesting to watch, fun to watch for me.
As for Punto, yeah, I’d rather have him as a a utility man than an everyday shortstop, and despite his knack for making pretty plays, don’t buy him as a top tier fielder, more of someone in the 8-15 range at short. That said, if you’re going to have an (slightly) above average fielder who’ll probably hit around .270 and steal 10-15 bases as your weakest link, most gm’s outside of NY and Boston I suspect would agree.
Aaron,
I think Crede will stick with the Twins for most of year. My prediction is 9 HR for his season total.
He could hit a couple more or less, but 9 is reasonable.
Hey TwinsFanontheChiSouthSide,
I am willing to bet that if the White Sox wanted to trade Alexi Ramirez for Casilla straight up the Twins would be throwing a party for years to come!!
Chitown Twins fan,
Nice post dude. You justed upped the average IQ of us posters 10 to 15 points.
Jeff-
Stop swallowing Pete’s BS about a girlfriend with inside Twins knowledge. You’re embarrassing yourself.
“Release them.”
Then what?
Keep the roster at 37?
or
Add youngsters to the roster who don’t need to be there for protection, so their arbitration / free agency clocks start ticking too early?
Crede was a no-brain move and a low-risk one. If he performs well he gets paid well if he can’t perform then he gets paid a lot less.
Cruz would be nice luxury but with the number of pitching prospects the Twins have it isn’t a necessity.
Small market teams simply don’t have the means to spend money like it is growing from trees. Baseball is a business first and foremost. The new stadium simply makes them more viable in this market. No money tree though. You need to make wise and prudent investments to be profitable.
As a fan I wouldn’t mind seeing Cruz added but the overall lineup is pretty decent and the pitching should be improved with a added year of experience for the young starting staff.
Go Twins!
Hey Larry,
Unless you personally know Pete you cannot gauge how much information he is actually privy too. I enjoy talking to him personally and enjoy the banter with him.
ChiTown Twins Fan, I htink you’re essentially correct about Casilla. My only problem with him is he tends to get lackadaisical (sp?) in the field. That may change as he matures.
If Alejandro Machado can finally throw again, he deserves a chance on this team.
I see Tolbert, Machado, Redmond, Young and Kubel as the bench.
Mauer, Morneau, Casilla, Crede, Punto, Span, Gomez, Cuddyer will be the regulars.
13 hitters and 12 pitchers.
Jeff,
How long are we giving Pete to make good on his promised 2nd deal (not Crede and not Cruz) before we start piling sh-t on him, like he was piling it on LaVelle?
One more rant on Casilla. I read somewhere recently about stuff getting lost in translation, literally with his instruction. I also read a while ago that the Twins are one of only a handful of teams left that don’t have a fluent Spanish speaker on the big league coaching staff (this could have changed, or I could be wrong about this). I do remember though how Johan did a lot of translating a few years back for Liriano. As much as I love Gady, Anderson, etc., this seems like an obvious and eminently fixable problem. A lot of Anglo managers have gone out and learned the language in the offseason. Just put a 50k bonus in their contract to do so and I’d bet the rewards in development for a player like Casilla or Liriano would be well worth it
DeepCraig, I find myself in shock, because I agree with your assessment to a great extent on both Buscher and Harris, both incomplete players as we all know. I disagree with your proposed solution on Harris. Buscher? I’d look for an early opportunity to make room foe Tolbert over him, He’s just not a great bench player, probably adequate as a LH PH, but so what? And he’ll taks AB’s away from real prospects at AAA. Harris? Look for a team that would maybe take him at the trading deadline? He’s best-suited as a platoon 3B, not a great utility guy, because he’s way below average at SS and 2B. So, I’d look to REPLACE them, but Harris at least should command some value in return. And there’s no rush to do anything, at least with Harris, because the alternatives (Tolleson, Hughes, etc.) can benefit from a full season at AAA.
Kunza,
Thank you for stating the obvious about the Twins lack of HR hitting in 2008 (and recent years)-I guess some folks just don’t realize the Twins will be hard pressed to hit over .300 with RISP (again if that is so “easy” how come only the Twins did that last season).
Welcome Joe Crede-I can’t wait to see rub it to the White Sox fans at work tomorrow.
Cruz- I wonder if a guy like Humber could factor into that trade? Hell, Humber/Cuddyer for Cruz. Do it.
The Phoenix paper was saying that they aren’t interested in resigning him either and that they are focused on getting compensated for him. They also mentioned that since the Yankees have already signed 3 type A guys they would only have to give up a 4th round pick for Cruz. You’d think the Twins could get them someone who would be worth more than a 4th rounder and an extra supplemental round pick.
Oh oh. Another 5 points.
shaun,
D-Backs are dumping salary.
So, how is the Cuddyer contract going to help them?
The Twins may have Crede bat eighth and move Punto up to seventh. Punto has a slightly better bat.
Crede has that low OBP Batista-like bat. Sort of an out machine.
Hi Sid,
Give him a deadline and then feel free to start piling on the sh__ to him! He is a big boy and since he can dish it out I think he can take it!! 
One would think that Cruz’s agent would realize that SP has already started and every day he sits around without a team hurts him somewhat. However he has already made the threat of sitting out till June if he has to. I just hope we can get the deal done.
We don’t have many MLB arms who are bull pen experinced
That is why Cruz could be so valuable. Also Nathan has been unusually healthy. Knock on wood but it would be nice to have someone who could step in if Nathan goes down.
Craig why do you post here? It obvious you are just putting out BS just to rile people.
Do you consider that fun?
juanie,
“Craig why do you post here? It obvious you are just putting out BS just to rile people”
Asked and answered.
A bit of context on the Ramirez v Casilla comparison. A couple local beat writers were fielding questions on local radio about Ramirez. Sox fans, as they are apt to do, were quite awed by his power numbers and were flabergasted to the point of mania that neither saw Ramirez as a longterm elite 2b on his way to cooperstown. Their reasoning was basically 1) most people think he’s actually 31 and combined with the # of games he played in Cuba is going to wear down quickly, leading to 2) that his range is bottom tier and will quickly get worse, given his age. Apples to oranges now that they’re moving him to short, but both beat guys said they certainly would rather have DeRosa this year and over the long term probably Casilla within the division.
bird,
If I had to take Buscher or Harris, I would probably take Buscher. Buscher can pinch hit for Gomez, while Harris is all but useless.
Interesting to note that Morneau seemed to be advocating for Buscher on MLB.com.
People are way to high on Crede. Yes he plays great defense, but does not hit lefties and his career splits are .257/.306/.447. That is very average and a platoon of Buscher/Harris would be very comparable as Buscher hits righties well and Harris hits lefties well.
Brian,
” a platoon of Buscher/Harris would be very comparable”
Comparable offense but night-and-day comparison on defense.
You don’t get to bat until you get the other team out.
juanie,
If I say that I think a guy will only hit 9 HR, it’s because I believe it. Everyone was angry at me last year when I said Delmon would hit 8-9 HR. I was off by one. I wasn’t trying to rile anyone, it’s what I believed, based on the information I had.
I think Crede will hit 9 HR next season, and when the season is over, I believe you will see that my prediction will be very close.
well, I have read most of the posts in here so far and have come to one, and only one conclusion…Craig Goes Deep is an idiot, plain and simple…the rest of you have at least shown a little intelligence, Craig has shown his utter, genuine, stupidity…
That is all…good day…
I agree with Steve H. I would rather see Harris at SS and use Punto as a utility backup or late inning pinch runner. I like to give Casilla first shot at 2B. It is going to be fun to see who the 6 relief pitcher turn out to be. Any update on Boof. We do not want him on the roster if he is not 100%, he wasn’t that good last year.
Sane,
No doubt the platoon will give up more runs of defense compared to Crede, but with Credes ability to only hit homeruns and not get on base, compared to the platoon, it hurts the lineup. I think what the platoon gives up on defense they get back on offense. What it comes down to is why pay someone 7millio when you can get almost the same play out of 2 guys who make a combined 1 million. If it was Adrian Beltre we are inserting into the lineup it would be different. Crede is just not that great of an upgrade or one at all.
If Crede can return to his previous form in the field, he will be a dramatic improvement in the field over Buscharris. Crede is a veteran guy who knows how to play. A fading hitter, who never was that good. He can still be a decent all-around guy.
People should just not get too excited about what he can contribute. It’s not like the Twins acquired a free agent superstar for their 2.5 mil.
Hey Alex,
Do you want to take the IQ challenge?
I didn’t think so.
Aahhh Craigy-poo defensive, time for nap nap…
Anyways, you talking to your other personality there or something, because you answered your own question before I could…oh well, guess I won’t then since he said no already…
Brian,
Couple things to consider when comparing Bushar and Crede is, in certain situations, Crede will affect how pitchers pitch to the 2 or maybe even 3 batters in front of him. And, defense for some reason is undervalued by most fans. “D” is 1/2 of the formula for winning.
I think Brian brings up a good point: Is this an overall upgrade?
I think a reasonable argument could be made that it could even be a downgrade.
My opinion is that overall it is a very slight upgrade, but a reasonable person could argue just the opposite. Of course, I place a VERY HIGH value on fielding.
Brian,
I thought that you originally said their offensive was comparable.
I would agree with that.
Are you saying that the platoon’s offense is better than Crede’s?
I disagree.
And Crede’s defense is light years better than Buscher-Harris.
Crede’s improved defense is worth $2.5 million by itself.
If the Twins get Crede2006 (.283 30-94), its worth all $7 million and obviously the FO agrees.
Poor fielding was a big negative factor last season for the Twins.
Gardy and the front office have addressed the two weakest links in the fielding: Delmon and 3B. Nice to see them take charge.
A batter’s OBP increases when he walks with runners on 2nd and 3rd.
His OBP DOESN’T increase if he drives one runner home (and the other to 3B) with a long sacrifice fly.
I’ll take Crede.
La Velle,
I love your postings and you usually do a great job. However, you were a little slow Friday night reporting the Joe Crede signing. We all found out the information out from another reporter in Chicago who wrote about it while you ate dinner. When you finally did report it you told everyone the Twins also had made a contract offer to Juan Cruz. Now today MLB.com reports the Twins never mave a contract offer to Juan Cruz at all. How can any reader believe what you print when mistakes like that are made. Please respond to this!!!!!!!
Paul,
Could not agree with you more on defense. I am a coach and I stress defense all the time. But when it comes down to it, is a defense upgrade going to make up for his mediocre production and is it going to be worth 7 million? I don’t know, we will just see. It was not hard to see that the defense was down last year compared to previous and not just in terms of errors, but in range as well. Errors are a terrible way to measure a defense.
Delmon, Kubel, Buscher and Harris constitute too many poor fielders for the bench. Too many slow footed guys when you Redmond is also on the bench. Delmon can run a little.
They need some better athletes for the bench. Kubel has a contract and Bill Smith is still hoping Delmon somehow turns into a beautiful butterfly. Buscher and Harris need to go.
Sane,
I think the platoons offense could be a little better, if gardy were to use it right. Hey and if we get 2006 Crede, I am all for it. But not for someone that hits his career average splits.
Brian,
“Errors are a terrible way to measure a defense.”
How about THIS as a measure of defense:
Use the number of potential outs LOST on bunts and choppers in front of the third basemen. (Buscher-Lamb-Harris)
Compared to how often Crede makes tha play flawlessly.
Or use the number of sinkerballs grounded into the 5-6 hole that were first fielded by the left-fielder.
Lavelle I agree with Jon. You did report the Twins made a offer to Juan Cruz and today mlb.com is telling us the opposite.
sane,
That’s a good point about OBP and the sacrifice. It shows statistics only tell part of the story.
Paul Molitor told the story about when someone asked him about his OBP, and he said he had never heard of OBP. It’s sort a faddish thing.
Jim Thome usually has a very high OBP, because he’s so slow the pitchers neutralize him by putting him on base. They did the same for years to Harmon.
OBP is only a part of the picture, and maybe a lot less important than many want to beleive.
Brian,
“If we get 2006 Crede, I am all for it. But not for someone that hits his career average splits.”
I understand that point, but I think Crede is a much better hitter than he was earlier in his career. Especially when you factor in that he has been batting with back pain in 2007-2008.
Craig, one thing you are missing in your whole bench scenario…Kubel will be on the bench, when he isnt hitting!! he will be the team’s DH this year…you seem to forget that the Twins are an AL team, so they can use a DH…that is why we have Kubel
in his situation, you are putting too much value on fielding…he is not expected to field all that often…the rest of them, though yes, arent great fielders, they are average, which is all you can expect out of bench players…they are there to spell a guy when he needs a day off…Buscher and Harris have decent enough bats to warrant a spot on the team, and are good enough at fielding to warrant being on the bench…obviously they are in the majors for a reason, and in Harris’ case, was for another team or two as well…its justified, dont bother arguing its not…
Sane,
If his back troubles are truly gone and up his offensive numbers then this will be a steal. But Sane do you think this is what puts the team over top?
Craig,
Crede will hit 10-15 HRs on the road alone (if healthy). His total at the Dome will be less (maybe 5-8). If healthy for the whole year his HR potential should be 15-23, closer to 23.
Craig, care to give a recap of your other predicitions last year? how about your predicitions for Mourneau and how the Twins would finish. from what i recall you thought the only way the Twins could compete last year was to trade Mourneau while he still had value!! lol…
Also, not to be underestimated, Crede alows Punto to cheat towards the middle in some situations.
Jon makes a strong point and me and my wife agree with him. Your job is to talk to sources and verify information. How did the Juan Cruz contract offer get messed up. Lavelle to need to respond to this!!!!!!!!
Jon,
While you’re complaining, I hope you’ve sent a rather pointed criticism to the Arizona Republic, whose reporter noted a deal was in the D-back’s hands with an answer likely Saturday.
It appears this wasn’t made up, but you are what you are.
Regards,
OBP a fad?
Yow.
Keep going pal, you might set teh record for foolish posts.
Sane,
3:47 on the money. Wish more of the youngsters understood that.
MLB Network aired Mark “the Bird” Fidrich game vs NYY from June of 76. I saw the last part of it. It was pretty neat seeing the Old Tiger Stadium, what what was the best is, it was just a regular season game and the fans stayed after the game was done and were chanting “we want Mark” until he came out. He was all about the joy of the game no matter his quirks, too bad we only had his rookie season to really enjoy him. I know the game will be replayed if anyone is interested.
Man who predict everything, predict nothing.
Jake -
I agree that Crede will help out immensely, but I also found Craig Goes Deep’s analysis very interesting and there might be a lot of truth in it.
All winter, whenever Crede’s name came up as a possible 3rd base option, somebody always mentioned the turf in the dome. I’m not a doctor and I’m way out of my comfort zone here, but it seems to me that turf is more of a problem for knees and ankles. I don’t recall ever reading anything that said a player was having back problems due to the surface he was playing on. I’m thinking about all the back problems Don Mattingly had during his career. I realize that he wasn’t playing on turf, but there was a lot written about his swing and how it was aggravating his back problems.
What really made a light bulb go off for me with Craig Goes Deep’s post was another post Thrylos98 wrote. He has it on his blog if anybody wants to check it out. Basically, he was looking at why Crede’s OBP and OPS showed a fairly steady decline from when he first came up (2002) to the present day. The reason for the interest is that Crede experienced this drop off in spite of the fact that he was striking out less and getting walks more.
There was some stuff in his post about BABIP, but Thrylos98’s basic conclusion was Crede stopped hitting line drives as he starting pulling the ball more and more to hit home runs. Thrylos98 has all Crede’s career line drive percentages listed and there is indeed a steady, nearly uninterrupted, downward trend in line drives.
Another personal observation I would like to toss in there is: how many back problems have Twins batters had in the 26 years they have been playing on turf. I can’t recall anything major and most certainly don’t recall anything that reoccurred or lingered. Another observation/coincidence: the Twins stress fundamentals, hitting to all fields, hitting behind the runner, etc. There is much less importance placed on pulling the ball and hitting it over the fence.
Putting all those observations together, it becomes easy to make another correlation: the more Crede pulled the ball, the more problems he had with his back. I would be curious to find out if Crede had any other back problems prior to injuring his back. Were there any pains that he played through? That kind of thing. You know, warning signs. I’m thinking along the lines of something like carpel tunnel: a slow build up to something that eventually requires surgery.
Once again, I am not a doctor and I have no idea what Craig Goes Deep’s pedigree is either (though I suspect he knows quite a bit more about hitting mechanics than I do), but there are a lot of parallels and coincidences here that, in my mind, merit a much closer look by people much more knowledgeable on the subject than anybody likely to be posting here.
Maybe a good steady dose of the “Twins Way” is just the elixir Crede needs to cure what’s ailing him. One thing I will say for sure: I would gladly take a decline in homers if it means keeping Crede’s glove in the line up everyday. Who knows, maybe his OBP and OPS will start to trend back to what it was earlier in his career. That would mean we were getting a better all around hitter as well.
To the dragon
The posting about Juan Cruz being offered a contract was first put out by Lavelle. It was picked up by MLB trade rumors and then MLB.com. Lavelle’s job is to find out information and then verify it which is why he is given a three week trip to spring training. Who cares what happened in Arizona the bottom line is we the public were given bad information and that should not happen EVER……….
“But Sane do you think this is what puts the team over top?”
Last year, MAYBE only one win would have put them over the top into the playoffs, where their momentum would have swept them into the World Series…….or not.
The BEST team occasionally wins the World Series.
But the better team has a better chance to win more games and make the playoffs, at which point nobody is in control of anything.
Let’s hope the Twins can get to that point.
More bizarre postings.
Crede is a Twin now.
If he back goes it goes.
let is all go!
Find something productive to do on a Sunday..
Win Twins!
Thomas,
LaVelle’s post said precisely: “Also heard tonight that the Twins have made an offer to free agent reliever Juan Cruz as part of a sign-and-trade deal with Arizona”
I totally believe that Lavelle heard what he said he heard.
He may have heard it from a liar.
If you have proof that he NEVER HEARD THAT, and just made it up, then show us the proof.
Otherwise, just shut the @#$% up!
Buscher can pinch hit for Gomez
yeap. I’d love to see E5 play CF and try to run down long fly balls (in a spring training game, not one that matters)
What does pinch-hitting have to do with replacing Gomez in CF?
Crede doesn’t look any bigger in the pictures, but maybe I don’t look at another man’s frame all that much lol
Oh and the pioneer press said Liriano and Mijares won’t be in the WBC for sure.
Craig Goes Deep are you from deep in Whits Sox country?
IMO, Crede’s BA & OBP will go up playing at the dome. The turf should add a few more hits compared to grass. The deeper fences will take away from his home run totals. Chances are, he will be encouraged to hit the opposite way more often & go for the fences less often. Probably more singles, more doubles, more fly outs to the warning track & fewer homers as compared to the bandbox the White Sox play in. He should also have more runners on base when he bats compared to Chicago ( & they will be faster). Hence, more RBI with fewer homers. But his increased THREAT of a home run should help give protection to the hitter(s) in front of him. On the other hand, he has 4 stolen bases, so he will clog the bases a little bit.
White Sox country?
Jim Thome usually has a very high OBP, because he’s so slow the pitchers neutralize him by putting him on base.
“Least insightful post of the month” award winner, right there folks.
And believe me, the competition was stiff.
Jon,
I am not trying to offend anyone. My point is to verify information and sources before you put it in print. After the posting MLB trade rumors and MLB.com picked up the story. It even flashed across the screen on the MLB network while they were showing 30 clubs in 30 days. I was only defending Jon’s original posting from above. If Lavelle wants to put out information like the National Enquirer that is ok with me.
The Twin’s FO plays everything close to the vest. Agents lie as often as they breathe. La Velle does a good job, so back off you hoseheads. All you guys complained about was why don’t the Twins sign Crede & now that they did you just look for something else to complain about. Get a life & a real job.
From a few days ago:
TK(2) says:
February 21st, 2009 at 6:56 am
The only bad news about all of this is that they HAVEN’T ACTULLY HAPPENED YET. Don’t forget that. I feel 130% more confident on the Crede move than the Cruz move right now…
Good news, IF they happen.
Now admittedly I got caught up in the excitment, but don’t celebrate until they’re finalized.
Thomas,
LaVelle said “he heard ….”
Any deeper significance that you put on that statement is your own doing.
He is not required to verify that he “heard” something.
He KNOWS that he “heard” it and that is all that he asserts has happened.
If you want to run to the bank with that flimsy of a rumor, go ahead, but don’t be outraged that it isn’t a “true rumor”
LaVelle didn’t say it was “true” - he said that he “heard it”.
The fact that he “heard” it, WAS PROBABLY TRUE.
My only advice to LaVelle would be:
Don’t repeat what THAT source tells you any more, unless you preface it with:
“an UNreliable source told me tonight that……”
Good news. Thanks, La Velle!
Very impressed with my first impressions of Crede. He sounds very much like a Twin; well-mannered, not cocky, and just a good guy. Mid-western personality, and very easy to talk to, right?
It will be great to have him standing right of Punto. Best defensive infield in the league?
As to the Cruz (non) news, I figured as much. I’d bet quite a bit on the fact that there are more than two teams in on that reliever. Why would Arizona let him go in the first place?
It’s possible that the source was incorrect and it’s also possible that the Twins are lying when they say they didn’t make an offer for Cruz.
Might the Twin’s make a low ball offer to Dennys Reyes? He might be open to it now that he sees the grass is not always greener on the other side. This would add more depth to BP. My question is, could he be sent to AAA w/o being exposed to waivers? Or would that only be if he signed a minor league contract? it’s looking like he might have to settle for a minor league contract or a relatively “small” contract. Teams do not seem to be lining up to sign him.
sane
you are dead on as always. obviously, john, thomas, whomever this guy is is just trying to get people annoyed (jon is already a victim), and he is reiterating what [insert expletive here]’s saw from La Velle over the weekend and are whining that it didn’t turn out as planned (cruz would be great, but its hardly the end of the world if he doesnt end up here).
i can’t imagine how the guy in AZ is getting shafted for at this moment - oh wait he’s not because a) they don’t have a free blog like this most likely, and b) people there get that journalism is NOT an exact science. All I can say to the whiners out there is GET OVER IT, and be happy that La Velle, Joe C, Howard and the rest of the crew here do a great job giving us blogs and information when they can and as best they can.
Craig goes deep
Yes, ok, so you were right about Delmon. Big deal - get over yourself. Its not hard to think that a guy in the previous year hit only 13 home runs in a decen’t hitters park would come here where hitting the other way is Gold and hit less HR’s (you went with 8-9, he got 10 total). Others were just being optimistic and going off of potential (not the best thing to do - did anyone see that same potetial in Span, Casilla, Blackburn, etc? probably not).
I do believe however your 9 HRs are quite low for Crede and here is why. The guy always hits HR’s, especialy against us and especially in the Dome (Thry help me out here). He hit more than 9 last year in half a season. IF he’s healthy and plays at least half a season, you honestly think he will hit only 9? I highly doubt that. Or maybe you just have this fixation on the number 9.
Crede can hit; yes his OBP is low, but its not horrible. I’d venture to guess he may learn to go opposite field when he gets here and bring that average up. Then and only then will he hit less home runs - its his swing that does it (that and his size, as La Velle pointed out). You also fail to mention he is one of those guys with the intangibles, especially his reputation as being ‘clutch’. With that in mind and his great glove, he is more than a ’slight’ upgrade over Buscher and Harris.
With regard to Crede clogging the bases …
Mauer and Morneau aren’t exacly the fastest players on the basepaths either. If Crede is batting behind Morneau, I don’t think they will be clogged anymore than they already are.
To those of you demoralized about the Cruz thing…Remember, Lavelle was the guy who said that they would never get Crede.
Mauer can run at above average speed, and Morneau has gotten faster over the years (at least from what I’ve seen). Crede being slow is not that big a deal. When compared to the pirahnas, everyone looks slow.
YANKEE SRPING TRAINING TICKETS
I have 2 tickets to the Yankee game on March 20(sold out)sect 202,row 5 seats 7 and 8.Also 2 seats to Blue jays on the 22nd and Orioles on the 23rd.
timcook19@yahoo.com
medschoolmatt,
I believe Crede has only hit 5 HR’s in the Dome ever. He had most of his at US Cellular when he was playing us.
twinsfan
yeah you are right. even so, it was 49 total games in his career and he hit 5 home runs. that is more than Mauer could hit and he pulls it to the Baggie.
twinsfan,
Crede has 19 HR’s against the Twins. 5 in the Dome and 14 away. Interestingly, 8 came last year, with 1 in the Dome.
Without playing the Twins last year, his stats would look meager.
Regards,
medschoolmatt
I’m definitely in agreement with you about him hitting more than 9. He just will more than likely hit the majority of them away.
His overall numbers on turf kind of worry me, but hopefully he’s better than that and I think he will be.
Hopefully he’ll continue to kill divisional opponents. He’ll need to get better against the Indians though. I see them as our main competition. And I really hope he crushes the Sox, especially in their ballpark.
Dragon,
actually Detroir and KC are his favorite victims… (good for the Twins)
Dragon,
You’re right about that. He really crushed us all by himself last year. I can just remember that grand slam he had the first time we played them last year. I think twice he had back to back games where he had HR’s too. I’m glad he’s on our side now.
Video for Crede is up on the Strib
And you can put him on our teeeeam… YES!!
thrylos,
I liked your analysis on Crede being a strong LD hitter when he came up.
IF Vavre could get some of that I would be happier.
Regards,
I wonder what Hawk Harrelson has to say about Crede now?
Dragon,
If anyone could help him hit to the opposite field, it is Vavra. And Crede is a player who will be better if he hits the ball to all fields.
I wonder what Hawk Harrelson has to say about Crede now?
Chicago traditionally has the worse homer broadcasters. I am sure that Crede is now one of “the bad guys”
Looks like La Velle is busy:
http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss146/Twins_Territory/LaVelle.jpg
I wish people would get off Lavelle’s case. He’s top notch reporter that gets the scoop on Twins news more than any other reporter I can think of. He’s also right on in his reporting a lot more than he’s not. A true league leader and MVP among sports journalists. I’m constantly seeing him quoted by other reporters and bloggers all over baseball.
With regards to the Cruz back biting, try this one on for plausibility …
Lavelle hears from a source that the Twins are involved in a possible sign and trade for Cruz. The source is credible enough that he posts it on his blog. Trade Rumors and others pick up on it and a few turn to their own sources to verify it. An Arizona reporter states that they are close to a deal and takes it a step further stating that the transaction is expected to be completed on Saturday.
Then, the Twins FO, whom normally play everything annoyingly close to the vest, release a statement denying any such deal.
Let’s see, on the one hand we have a top notch journalist with an outstanding track record of timely and accurate reporting. On the other hand, we have a team FO with a notorious track record of denying everything and even flat out lying about any deal they may be discussing until it’s all done.
On top of all that, Kelly Theiser has reported in the last few hours that no formal offer has been made. She chastises any potential fan optimism that a deal will be made, but also goes on to say that the Twins are definitely interested. There were also reports when the whole sign and trade thing started to come to light that Smith and Co. were looking into the details.
Could it possibly be Lavelle is dead on right and the pathologically lying and denying Twins front office are just doing what they do best? Another thought I’ll through out there just for fun: maybe the Twins FO went so far as to ask Lavelle to back off his statement until a deal is in place and the ink has dried?
Of course, nobody will know anything until a deal is finalized, but even if Cruz signs elsewhere, that doesn’t mean the Twins FO wasn’t trying and Lavelle is indeed right. The truth of the matter is Lavelle is in a much better position to find out things than any of us. And being such, he always deserves the benefit of the doubt.
To paraphrase a certain Britney Spears fan on YouTube: “leave Lavelle ALONE!!!”
Thrylos,
3 ideas running around from you and Seth, if pieced together would put together a variable and difficult line-up IMHO.
1.) Crede work on LD, hitting to ALL fields.
2.) Use Seth’s allocation of AB’s among 5 OF/DH’s. Basically all play 8 of 10 games.
3.) When Young is in bat him 2nd/3rd, Mauer 2nd/3rd, In this scenario, have Casilla, Gomez & Punto as the bottom, When Span doesn’t start, lead-0ff with Casilla or Gomez depending who is “hot”. Young should see good pitches, and, can hit the other way. Once through the line-up, you have the 4/5 speedsters getting on ahead of Young, Mauer, Morneau, Cuddyer/Kubel & Crede.
What you think?
Regards,
I’m not getting on his case. I’m just showing a picture of Crede I found with him with a front row seat.
I think La Velle does an awesome job, and I personally know how hard he works to get information and post it. Ecspecially when his first priority is the actuall articles.
There is absolutely nothing contradictory between:
As for reliever Juan Cruz, reports that the Twins are close to a sign and trade deal aren’t true, according to a person with knowledge of talks. (today)
and
Also heard tonight that the Twins have made an offer to free agent reliever Juan Cruz as part of a sign-and-trade deal with Arizona. (yesterday)
Could it just be that Cruz’ agent did not like the offer? (the simplest possible explanation…) Not everything has to turn into major drama/conspiracy
T.T.,
he is not in a front row seat, just behind the cage. The front row is about 50-60 feet at least from home plate in Ft. Myers.
TwinsTerritory:
I’m not getting on any one particular person with my support of Lavelle - I’m just frustrated with all the posters ripping on him. With some bloggers it seems like he’s damned if he does and damned if he doesn’t.
I see. I too was a little mad with some of the comments yesterday. It’s not as easy as calling one person for him to get the story. It taks some time…
“It’s going to be hard enough to agree to terms with the agent”
I think that you are right again Thrylos98 after reading today’s reports.
It’s not as easy as calling one person for him to get the story. It takes some time
plus there is another thing that should be in consideration here: It is not like it is the winter meetings where one’s job is to try to get the breaking news on signings and trades. The main news are how players are in spring training and how they are look after the off-season and how any position battles look. When a transaction might break, it would be difficult to dig if one is focus on his/her primary goal (spring training coverage) and esp if he/she is down there…
Dragon,
Crede work on LD, hitting to ALL fields.
that’s a no-brainer to me. (I actually edited that analysis late last night and got spray charts from when he was a high OBP player -2002- to last year; link here if anyone cares: http://tenthinningstretch.blogspot.com/2009/02/bill-smith-made-sizeble-splash-in-free.html )
Use Seth’s allocation of AB’s among 5 OF/DH’s. Basically all play 8 of 10 games.
I don’t like it. I think that Cuddyer will have to win a job this spring training and if he doesn’t perform better than the other 3 he should be an occasional RF/DH/1B/PH; think Monroe last year.
When Young is in bat him 2nd/3rd, Mauer 2nd/3rd, In this scenario, have Casilla, Gomez & Punto as the bottom, When Span doesn’t start, lead-0ff with Casilla or Gomez depending who is “hot”. Young should see good pitches, and, can hit the other way. Once through the line-up, you have the 4/5 speedsters getting on ahead of Young, Mauer, Morneau, Cuddyer/Kubel & Crede.
You are preaching to the choir. I have been saying all along since last year, that the best spot for Young is the second spot. That will let him see better pitches in front of M&M and that would give 5 speed guys in a row.
Right on Thrylos right on. When a player vitimizes teams in our division it is always nice to watch him with the good guys.
I just want to see how he vicimizes the white sox
that is going to be fun. Really fun
Holy buckets, has this gotten out of hand!
First of all, I stand by my Cruz report. There is NO doubt that Cruz’s agent, Barry Praver, is aware of what the Twins are willing to spend on his client. An offer HAS been made. I don’t care what else is out there.
Second of all, for those who are still mad about the Crede report: It won’t be the last time. There will be times when I’m out, not in internet range, traveling, etc., when something goes down and I can’t jump on it right away.
Thirdly, many times in this business people tell you what they want to tell you, not what you want them to tell you. Historically, the Twins are less chatty the closer they get to a deal.
Fourthly, I’m going to get beat on stories. No one bats 1.000 in that category. But trust me: There’s an incessant pursuit of being first with news. Joe C. and I like our chances in that area.
Fifthly, we’re going to have to figure out who keeps the Joe C. nickname - Crede or Christensen.
It’s the weekend. It’s not surprising to see the annoying people were let out of their cages.
Thanks again, La Velle. Any other news to report?
I must say, I do agree that Young should move way up in the order, but I see him more as a three hitter. Maybe I too compartmentalized in my thinking, but I like the idea of bunching all the power together in a line up, then bunching up all the speed in front of the power.
give us hell LaVelle
Janet, the link is useful but just because the GM says nothing is happening as far as notiations are concerned does not mean anything. GMs tend to try to hide things until the deals done. That might just be the usual GM bs.
LaVelle good reporting you give us a lot to talk about. Even though it might not be positive.
La Velle,
We got your back!!!
Regards,
ps: How far in advance do you and Joe plan who is going on which road trips? Do you guys know which of you will be in Baltimore May 6 & 7?
If a deal does go down with Cruz who do the twins trade. Humber? Macri?
I have noticed like La Velle said the twins do quiet down when something like this is comming up. I wonder if the recent quietness is a good sign.
Okay La Velle good for you! Stick by what you understand is true. I like that. At this point I gotta believe you that his agent knows what the Twins are offering him. Hopefully this kid will want to start playing somewhere soon. It might as well be for a contender who wants him for that 8th inning spot like the Twins. I hope this progresses and they can still get this done.
“Fifthly, we’re going to have to figure out who keeps the Joe C. nickname - Crede or Christensen.”
That’s an easy one. Christensen was here first. Just like a player’s jersey number, Joe C. is Christensen’s nickname to keep or give up as he sees fit.
So, until he tells us differently, Christensen is the official Joe C. of the Minnesota Twins.
m,
I don’t know is anyone has the definitive answer, BUT does the sign ‘n Trade deal replace only the teams #1 pick which would be lost (with say Arizona getting the sanwich pick regardless), OR does it replace BOTH the #1 and the sandwich pick?
Regards,
[…] 1:27pm: Neal is back with another update, though not a pleasant one for Twins fans. Neal writes that the reports saying the Twins are […]
sploorp,
Maybe Joe C can sell the nick to Crede…sort of like a uni #
Regards,
From what I understand, it’s both. If Arizona does a sign and trade they lose their 1st round and sandwich picks in favor of what they get from the team signing their Type A player.
Oooo! Now that is something I never thought of - selling the nickname. I like it!!
m,
I agree, I thought the link was good because it says the Twins need to get it done with Cruz’s agent first, which leads back to Len3’s reporting. Sounds like we are in negotiations still with the agent. The Twins want to get out the negative info for a negotiation tactic.
Thanks again La Velle. Many of the posters here are envious of the job you have & how good you are at it. Keep the updates coming!
Dragon,
as far as i know the team who signs the type A will lose its first round pick. but I have heard if you resign a type A you will not. I think it was said like this:
The team that signs a type A free agent gives up their first round pick to the team who loses him. If a team resigns that free agent it gives that pick back to itself.
Basically the D-backs would lose nothing since they don’t want Cruz back to begin with. They only gain
Dragon
How credible that info is I can not tell you but right now there is so much stuff flying around it is hard to tell what is True vs. False
Janet
Historicaly like La Velle said I would guess the twins are up to something because it got suddenly quiet on their end
Who else out there think salary caps should be enforced in MLB
Mainly just to keep the Yankees in check
Ben Hendrickson throws smoke. I was an above average baseball player in high school and he made me look stupid. Great minor league signing.
Yup, yup, yup, I will keep my ears open down here in AZ.
Personally, I think a sign a trade should only involve the 1st round pick. The sandwich pick doesn’t have any negative impact on the team signing a Type A free agent. It’s the 1st round pick that’s creating all the problems.
I would also have to think it would be easier to pull off a deal like that if it were just the 1st round pick that was getting compensated for. The team on the receiving end would be thinking, “sure we lose our draft pick, but we get player X who helps us now and we still keep our sandwich pick.” I’m guessing the Type A player would also benefit in that the team wouldn’t have to give up quite as much to his former team. They might be inclined to pay him more.
It’s probably something the union overlooked in their rush to get the ball rolling and their members signed ASAP.
I dk a lot about Cruz besides that he’s got a live arm and piches for strike outs. But i have read a lot about him having control issues. I wonder if that can cause trouble for us if we manage to land him
offer them Humber, an IF (plouffe? macri?) and a decent pitching prospect (mulvey? jones? others?) and hopefully thats enough
m,
I understand that as far as it goes. Yet IF Cruz signs somewhere prior to the draft, they get the signing teams 1st Round pick if not protected + a sandwich pick.
IF the Twins just signed Cruz, Arizona would get the Twins #23 pick (I believe) + Arizona would get a sandwich pick.
IF the Sign ‘n Trade deal has to compensate Arizona for both #23 and sandwich, it is an interesting concept, because the Twins would be compensating something they don’t stand to lose…Sandwich pick.
Regards,
sometimes the unions cause more trouble than they claim to fix
m says:
February 22nd, 2009 at 7:40 pm
sometimes the unions cause more trouble than they claim to fix
[insert marriage joke here]
Dragon
It will be interesting how it works out if it works out
msm
I would not offer Plouffe just yet. I would like to see how far he develops first. As far as pitching prospects, ive always been high on keeping the ones who show potential at success in the biggs
The D’backs already have something like 4 1st round picks. We’re talking a major outlay in bonus money. I could easily see them rather getting a couple of MLB READY prospects. Other teams would have paid their bonus money & they would have already successfully made it through the minors. It makes sense in several ways. Hope it happens.
msm
clever
coco
that is why i think if cruz accepts the offer. AZ might not be hard to deal with
Cruz definately has control issues, he can be frustrating because he has such great stuff.
Dragon -
Thanks. That is my point exactly. Let the receiving team keep their sandwich pick. The sign and trade should only be about alleviating the stickler that is keeping the player from signing the deal.
I’d rather keep Tolbert, Tolleson and Machado than Plouffe. Its a crowded infield in AAA
Sorry, that should have read, “the stickler that is keeping the player from getting a deal.” My bad.
Medschoolmatt,
It seems like Ploufle has been around forever, BUT he is only 22 years old.
Regards,
La Velle,
Thank you for answering my question. I sure as heck did not mean to stir up everyone. Who do you think the Twins may go after for the 8th inning if they pass on Juan Cruz and would they trade Delmon Young to get them?????????
I’m really curious on How Hughes will turn out
you hear about Dellucci and Guillans stories
Jon - you ’sure as heck’ did try, especially acting as someone else and referring to yourself in that post…
and no way Delmon - an everyday player (whether Gardy and Cuddy like it or not), gets traded for a set-up man unless he’s top notch.
Dragon - so is Delmon, but everyone rips on him. whats your point?
medschoolmatt,
Just offering that tid-bit, because until recently I had thought he was 24/25ish.
He’s been young at every level he’s been at. Don’t know if he’s a super star, but I think he’s too young to show the door.
Regards,
Personally, I really like the whole sign and trade thing and I wouldn’t mind it becoming a permanent option. Especially, if the team losing the player gets to keep their sandwich pick.
I would even take it a step further: a team losing a Type A player MUST receive compensation from the signing team, either through the current first round and sandwich picks, OR via a sign and trade for the 1st round pick (sandwich pick remains unaffected).
If a team doesn’t have a 1st round pick to give up and can’t work out a sign and trade, then they can’t sign the player. None of this, they already gave away their 1st round pick, so the receiving team gets a 2nd or 3rd rounder stuff.
I’m thinking here of preventing what the Yankees pulled this winter with CC, AJ and Tex. Let’s face it, Milwaukee and Toronto got hosed and the Yankee fans are probably still laughing about it.
Jon,
No way do the Twins trade Delmon for a setup guy ever!! Now if they broaden the trade and include Delmon for a Webb, or a Harden that is different but I doubt that will happen.
Delmon is not going anywhere. Too much upside and he is still relatively cheap.
Dragon - well said; what would your package be instead?
sploorp - the yankees have been doing it for years, at the sake of their farm system (thus they are old and overpaid every year).
Cruz has already stated that he could sit out until June to get the right deal. If he did that then Arizona would receive nothing in return. I just don’t see the Twins giving up much to Arizona for him at this point because they really don’t have to. I was thinking of a Humber, Macri, or Machado for him is all. I think the Twins would want to hang on to Plouffe and Tolleson for awhile to see how they develope.
I think Gardy spreads the at bats around between the four outfielders and Kubel - similar to what Seth suggested. About a quarter to a third of the way through the season, the outfield sorts itself out. By the end of the season, we either forget there ever was a controversy or the eventual solution seems so obvious in hindsight that we wonder why there ever was a problem.
Medschoolmatt,
I think it could take one of the Swarzk, Mulvey, or Duensing, and another piece or two.
Caveat: That sage information adn $1.29 will get you a cold cup of coffee at my local 7-11.
Regards,
IF the Sign ‘n Trade deal has to compensate Arizona for both #23 and sandwich, it is an interesting concept, because the Twins would be compensating something they don’t stand to lose…Sandwich pick.
Here is how a sign and trade thing works (and should be called re-sing and trade; I am using Cruz and the Twins as an example) :
1. the free agent (Cruz) and the new team (Twins) agree to terms of a compensation. No signing yet.
2. The new team (Twins) and the old team (Dbacks) agree on a trade that will send players (let’s say Humber and Duensing) from the new team (Twins) to the old team (Dbacks). They have 48 hours after #1 is done to do this.
3. Once everything is done above, the old team (Dbacks) signs the player (Cruz) in the contract that the new team (Twins) and the player (Cruz) agreed up and then trades him to the new team (Twins) for the players (Humber and Duensing) they agreed upon.
This is pretty tricky, because in steps 1 and 2 above, there is nothing binding… just a handshake.
I think that with this newfangled “sign and trade” business, (and bear in mind everyone is feeling their way on this a bit) the Twins CAN’T make an offer, or else they lose a draft pick. Only AZ can make an offer. LaVelle’s recent post is careful with language–the agent is aware of what the Twins are willing to pay. Perhaps the Twins FO is nervous that it is out there that they made an offer, so they are trying to reel this in a bit, first to LaVelle, and then Thesier.
The Twins are still, from what we have heard, the main team involved heavily in this, and still have to be heavily favored for Cruz. That doesn’t mean AZ won’t listen to other offers, or that other teams won’t try to keep this from being really easy.
Craig–how many HRs will DY hit this year, give or take 1?
LaVelle, thanks for the clarifications.
So Crain, Gurrier and Bonser it is. If we can get 2005 Crain and 2007 Gurrier, and keep Bonser on for long relief, the bullpen will be in decent shape. Hopefully Ayala will regain some form and be the 2005 version, or something close to it.
and no way Delmon - an everyday player (whether Gardy and Cuddy like it or not), gets traded for a set-up man unless he’s top notch.
the only set-up man who has similar value to Delmon is Joba Chamberlain. Even though, I would hate that trade, too…
Thrylos,
You are exactly right about the sign and trade from everything that I have read. You are also right about the Delmon for a set up guy too. The Twins might consider Chamberlain if they thought they convert him to a starter.
Medschoolmatt -
I know they have been doing it for years and it drives me up the friggin’ wall!
I’m just thinking how nice it would be to have some kind of rule in place that said, “I don’t care how much you offer the player, you can’t have him!”
If a rule like that were in place, maybe Tex would have wound up with the Nationals or the Oreoles. Or maybe they would have stayed off CC and let Milwaukee have a chance at re-signing him like they wanted.
There would have been a little more parity in the east and Tex would have been playing much closer to home than NY - which he claimed was the whole reason he didn’t want to re-sign with the Angels.
I don’t think the players union would ever go for it - they want the Yankees out there driving up all the prices - but it’s nice to dream about it.
I think the best way to think of a sign and trade is to think of it more as an “in lieu of” deal. As in, if the Twins can cut a deal with Cruz, they can work out a trade with “Arizona” in lieu of surrendering their 1st round pick and Arizona receiving a sandwich pick.
I think the biggest hurdle right now for the Twins getting Cruz is the dollars they are offering. I am sure that they had envisioned making much more this year on the open market but 2009 free agents have to deal with coming down to reality. Hopefully the Twins and his agent will get this done as I am sure that Arizona would be a eager trade partner with Minnesota.
IF we get Cruz
BP looks like Nathan, Breslow/Mijares as lefties, Ayala/Cruz as righties, then insert one of crain/guerrier/bonser/humber (whomever is left if we trade one) and thats a very formidable BP.
As far as pitching prospects, ive always been high on keeping the ones who show potential at success in the biggs
Do you suppose there are people out there ‘high on keeping’ the ones who show NO potential at success in the big leagues?
Sheesh…
Jeff -
I’m thinking along the same lines as you are.
I know that the “trade” part of the sign and trade is the last step, to pull it off the signing team would have to know what they would give up in players. The cost in players would have a direct affect on what a team would be willing spend in dollars for the player.
I’m thinking that Minnesota has already been talking with Arizona. If a deal isn’t already in place, then the two teams have a very good idea of what it’s going to take. It would be pointless to discuss terms with Cruz unless they knew they were on the same page with Arizona.
If and when Cruz and the Twins come to an agreement, the whole thing should come together very quickly.
As far as players the Twins would be trading goes, I think the whole appeal for the Twins is if they’re giving up only players they are apt to lose by the end of ST, or a player that doesn’t fit into their plans and might be blocking a more desirable prospect at a lower level. I can’t imagine them trading a prized prospect and losing a player or two who are out of options.
From Arizona’s side I’ve read several things on non-Twins blogs that they are cash strapped and in need of pitching and/or mid infield help. I’m also thinking they would want players fairly close to major league ready.
I would say scour the roster for prospects at or near the major league minimum. Pitchers and mid-infielders who are out of options or blocking a lower level stud and aren’t likely to make the 25 man roster.
I’m thinking Humber almost for sure and possibly Macri. Though, I’m not as sure about the later as the former.
Do you suppose there are people out there ‘high on keeping’ the ones who show NO potential at success in the big leagues?
Two words:
Armado Gabino
(in the 40 man roster)
dis team da bomb yo! They gonna win most games out of all of dem! But dat just my opinion yo, don’t hate. They come to da world series to pop some mofos, holla!!!
As a die hard Minnesotan and Twins fan living in Chicago, I have watched Crede for 14 years and he’s a stud and a quality person. He’s a total steal for 2.5 just to have him in the clubhouse. If he has something left in the tank it could be a great year for the Twinks.
From Arizona’s side I’ve read several things on non-Twins blogs that they are cash strapped and in need of pitching and/or mid infield help.
I live in Arizona, and I’ve heard/read nothing about Arizona being “cash-strapped,” although I would guess most teams are watching their payroll in this economy.
I think they like their starting rotation (Webb, Haren, Davis, Garland, Scherzer). They have Steven Drew at short, but it could be that they’d like to upgrade at second base. Right now Felipe Lopez looks to have that job.
They also currently have a full 40 man roster, and already have 4 of the first 43 picks in next years draft.
Not sure what that all means, but IMO they’ll be in no hurry to do any ’sign and trade’ deal. I think they’ll just take their chances on Cruz eventually signing with someone before June 15th and getting the picks.
As I posted a few days ago, if the Twins are interested in Cruz, probably the best way to go about it is just sign him and give up the pick.
Is the full video of the press conference available online anywhere?
So Joe Crede has a polished swing? Great. Keep him away from Vavra. He’d be hitting singles to the opposite field in no time.
They also currently have a full 40 man roster
this makes a re-sign and trade possibility even harder because they would have to empty a spot to re-sign Cruz before they trade him, which means that in addition to the 2 draft picks they would lose, a team would have to compensate them for the loss of a player…
its hard to believe they have a full 40 man roster with all these FA’s leaving from there
I’ve read a lot of stuff on a lot of different sites, so it’s hard for me to point to any sources and say see, there it is. There also have quite a bit of conflicting opinions as well.
If I remember correctly, the cash strapped part is half sagging economy and half paying off differed salaries.
Thank you Twins Front Office! For a moment there I didn’t think the Twins would pull the trigger. And the best thing is if he dosen’t get AB’s we still save considerable money from the 5-7 mil base salary that originally was being negotiated. If he’s healthy and gets at bats I think he will do well. And his glove will be great. I would like the twins to get Cruz but I don’t think it is absolutely nesecary; so don’t give too much for him. Man this team is turning out to be a lot like the teams that won the division. Great defense. Complete (mostly) offense. Good bullpen. I’m feeling pretty good about this year’s twins. When neshek is back in 2010 teams better watch out because we will finally be scary. The key will be Crain, Gurrier, and Bonser. I think Crain will do well now that he’s healthy. Bonser was a downgrade last year from the previous year. The jury is still out on Gurrier. A lot of good points have been posted… except that Craig Goes Deep is a ____________ (fill in the blank). Crede if healthy will hit 15 at the minimum. He was a great addition. Now imagine this scenario. Twins sign hudson for 2b. Move casilla to ss. Then you have for third base: Punto, Tolbert, Buscher, Harris, Cuddy. If you don’t like what you see out of them, sign crede. Infield: Morneau, Hudson, Casilla, Crede. Now THAT would be scary. Please respond.
USAFChief -
Is that 4 of the first 43 picks include the Cruz picks or is that in addition to the Cruz picks?
In my previous comment I meant 15 hr.
Yo Dog -
I think the Twins are done with position players. I must admit, the whole offer to Cruz thing took me by surprise, but that makes more sense than adding a second baseman and benching Punto. Gardy would never do that.
Arizona already has those picks. They haven’t gotten any picks for Cruz (yet.)
..yo dog - hudson was already signed and crede is signed? i dont get what u are talking about to be honest.
Yo Dog
Hudson would be great if he hadnt already signed with the Dodgers.
Sorry for the delay. Let me start over. I’m talking about waaaay back in the begining of the offseason before hudson and crede were signed. Now here is my situation. The twins sign hudson, move casilla to ss. Then evaluate 3b and if you don’t like your options sign crede. Understand?
As long as Crede’s swing dosen’t hurt his back I don’t think it should be changed. La Velle made it sound like his swing looked pretty good.
I don’t know, but some (call it weird) reason everyone who has a $dog$ in their userame makes me think of Brian Buscher…
speaking of,
La Velle, got any interviews from E5, since Crede got into the camp?
Cruz would be nice sploorp but again I don’t think we HAVE to get him. I’m really ticked off that we didn’t keep reyes. It seemed like the twins never appreciated him for what he was worth. He was a very sound pitcher for us.
Are you suggesting something thrylos98?
Are you suggesting something thrylos98?
just check the archives
I know that you have suggested that the twins made the BIGGEST mistake by calling up Toby Gardenhire to play catch with the twins. I know that you are not a big Gardy fan (father & son). I know that you have done some snooping around to find some cons to the Crede signing. Shall I continue…
. Shall I continue…
what is the saying… something like “a finger pointing to the moon and someone was gazing at the finger”
I meant the “dog” reference, as in Brian Buscher’s alter ego…
The truth is that i did have hesitations about the Crede singing, but since a. he gets Buscher to AAA and b. his OPS could be fixable, I am more than fine with it
It seemed like you were inviting me to continue. Oh well. If Brian Buscher is a dog, what is Boof Bonser??
Crede will benifit from shortening a swing with two strikes. More RBI and better average. I think Vavra is very underated as a batting coach. He has the Twins producing alot of runs with little power and this could only help.
The Twins also get more on base than Chicago. Crede could hit 290 20hr 115rbi. I will take that over 30hr and 90rbi with 270 batting average, and more strikeouts. I just think Vavra gets way more heat than he deserves. Delmon tried to hard to impress and Vavra didn’t take his power away, besides whats wrong with hitting opposite field on occasion.
Hockey Guru Dan = Not too smart
Hockey Guru Dan is a puck-head.
I think hockey guru got kicked of the wild websight.
Joining this late, but I am at least encouraged that the front office made the move. I’d like to see more details on how the Twins swung the negotiations with Crede/Boras — seemed like they were standing firm on wanting guaranteed money. Also, some have alluded to Crede’s overall numbers dropping in recent years, maybe as he swung for the fences. The whole Sox team seemed to do that after 2005, when they won the Series playing Ozzie-ball — more emphasis on speed, base running. Last couple years, just slugging. Ozzie wants to be speedier again this year. I wonder if the Twins staff works with Crede his overall approach at the plate will get better?
Much better bleach61 team first for starters not A hr hitting contest.
i dont know if this got posted but its great news i just got off of work
Liriano to skip WBC
Twins pitching coach Rick Anderson checked with lefthanders Francisco Liriano (Dominican Republic) and Jose Mijares (Venezuela) and learned both pitchers will skip the World Baseball Classic, which begins March 5.
Someone mentioned Crede hitting 15 homer’s minimum.
My prediction (IF!!!!! Completely Healthy):
No fewer than 25 HR’s.
.278 or higher.
90+ RBI
7 or fewer errors.
And he’ll be ‘clutch’.
He’s going to have a Monster year… if he is in fact completley healthy.
TRIVIA TIME: the early risers (or night owls, whatever) can tackle this one first. There have been 19 players who’ve manned 3B since Koskie. Can you name them all? Here are some starters — Lamb, Buscher, Harris, Macri, Punto, Tolbert (he did, didn’t he???), T-Bat…. Who else?
1. Lamb
2. Buscher
3. Harris
4. Macri
5. Punto
6. Tolbert
7. Bautista
…Gee, I don’t know. They’ve all been so un-memorable.
8. Chris Gomez (I think that’s who it was…)
9. The guy who cost us the game with one error at 3rd. I think he’s still in the leauge, (AZ maybe) but can’t think of his name…
10. Tommy Watkins?
11. That one guy.
12. Generic name.
13. Faceless.
14. Nameless
15. He sucked.
16. Talentless.
17. A gamer…oh no wait. If he was, he’d still be on the team.
17. Steve.
18. Martin.
19. Bust prospect.
Do I win?
I researched it for a while and could still only come up with 15.
One name I’m sorry I didn’t get though was Cuddyer.
Came up with two more…one I don’t remember AT ALL. But I’m beat. 17.
romer,
Am I to understand that, because of the Twins’ Joe Crede FA signing, you have decided (once again) to forgo sex in order to follow the Twins this season?
I thought that we had already discussed this, and that you were planning to take the appropriate corrective action.
I cannot emphasize enough, as someone who used to respect your opinions and judgement, how very disappointed I am, with your choice of priorities.
I hope, for your sake, that you will, once again reconsider this unwise decision.
Sincerely,
Dr. sane, PHD,
DeVry School of Psychotherapy
Terry Tiffee, Luis Rodriguez, Jeff Cirillo - there’s three more for you.
Oh, and Glenn Williams too.
Howie Clark.
Gomez said: Now no holes in our line-up. What a joke: What about that BIG hole in his swing? Strike out king. Slap bunt is all he can do.
Grede not 100%. Last time I watched a MLB game players had to run. Crede can’t even run 100% yet.
Topp Dogg, Crede runs just fine when compared to Buscher and Harris.
CUDDYER played 3B in 2005.
Juan Castro played 22 games at 3B in 2005.
Good call with Castro. Somebody already mentioned Tommy Watkins.
I love a parade.
Crede can backstoke as fast as Buscher can run, but IMO Harris runs OK, which would be the fastest in that heat.
I can only come up with 15:
Cuddyer
Castro
Punto
Rodriguiz
Watkins
Cirillo
Macri
Buscher
Harris
Clark
Tolbert
Tiffee
Williams
Batista
Lamb
Augie Ojeda and Alex Prieto played a few games at 3B in 2004 when Koskie was still with the Twins.
Harris runs a bit faster than Crede, but you don’t have to run fast to do a home run trot.
Michael Ryan played ONE INNING at 3B in 2005.
Walter, I’m pretty sure that Pioneer Press blurb was incorrect when it said Crede is the 19th 3b since Koskie. But I guess I don’t blame them for losing count.
BRILLIANT! GENIUS! great pick up in JOE CREDE thats gotta hurt WHITE SOX unfaithful. Prediction! White Sox finish behind the Royals. From first to worst.
Were are the negative people towards BS been over this last weekend,you know they have to always post something?There seems to be alot of new monikers praising BS.That ok,you negative types can go back to your old monikers when BS’s moves backfire.
