Twins-Royals: Joe Crede scratched from lineup
Posted on June 29th, 2009 – 5:44 PMBy La Velle
So much for the Twins being at full strength.
Joe Crede has just been scratched from the lineup with a stiff lower back. The Twins said the move was made as a precausion.
Brian Buscher will play third and bat seventh in place of Crede.
Back to our program….
Sorry this is late. I chatted up the coaching staff for a long time before the game, trying to solve baseball’s problems. Then I ran into a couple scouts in the pressbox. The White Sox scout is here doing advance work for their series at the Dome, and I know him fairly well.
With the help of the talented Twins PR maven Dustin Morse, we have concluded that this is the most important game in the history of the franchise.
It started when we were trying to figure out the last time manager Ron Gardenhire had his best 25 players healthy. Denard Span was out from June 9 until last Thursday. By then, Nick Punto was battling sore ribs. Going back further, Alexi Casilla was up.
Over the last month, the Twins have had to make to deal with Casilla and Jesse Crain demoted, Punto, Span and Glen Perkins on the DL and Joe Mauer, Justin Morneau and Joe Crede needing days off for various problems. This was written before Joe Crede was scratched from today’s lineup.
Despite all of this, the Twins are 14-11 this month. “A win today ensures a winning month,” Morse said.
“And a winning road trip,” I added.
Then we both remembered that the Twins have never been two games over .500. And they are 39-38 going into tonight’s game.
A winning June. A winning trip. The high water mark for the season. So much on the line. The tension is building!
O.K., I’m hamming it up. But a win tonight would mean a lot.
Punto is back in the lineup, but Gardenhire warned that if he has any problems, he’s headed for the disabled list.
Lineups
Twins (39-38)
1. Denard Span, CF
2. Brendan Harris, SS
3. Joe Mauer, C
4. Justin Morneau, 1B
5. Jason Kubel, DH
6. Michael Cuddyer, RF
7. Joe Crede Brian Buscher, 3B
8. Delmon Young, LF
9. Nick Punto, 2B
Nick Blackburn, RHP
Royals (32-42)
1. David DeJesus, LF
2. Willie Bloomquist, RF
3. Billy Butler, 1B
4. Mike Jacobs, DH
5. Mark Teahen, 3B
6. Alberto Callaspo, 2B
7. Miguel Olivo, C
8. Mitch Maier, CF
9. Tony Pena, Jr., SS
Luke Hochevar, RHP
307 Responses to "Twins-Royals: Joe Crede scratched from lineup"
Punto at SS and Harris at 2B???
FREE GO-GO!
We know Delmon Young will be enigmatic as always, Gardy, just play GOMEZ!
That warning is just going to make Punto play through pain and make stupid mistakes….
This looks like a 2-over-.500 lineup to me. As long as Nick Blackburn has had a chance to work on his throws to 3B, that is!
twins put up 3 runs in the first, royals shut them down over the next 7 innings.
blackburn pitches 7 shutout innings, gardy pulls him out after 7 because he has 97 pitches.
henn gives up 4 in the 8th.
4-3 royals.
Why not give Cuddyer the occasional day off and let Gomez play?
I’m not trying to be a Cuddyer hater, but I actually think giving him more days off would be better for him in the long run. Keep him fresh and keep Gomez more active.
And if not, just send Gomez down to AAA already. The kid was just starting to show life and now will be approaching a week with no PT. At least he can get some regular time down there. Man up and do it already.
How does a major league baseball team find itself in the position of having Willie Bloomquist playing RF AND batting second? With Alberto Callaspo batting 6th?
It could be worse, Twins fans.
The Red Wings should be able to beat this KC lineup (if Swarzak or Mulvey are starting)
I did’nt want to say this after a loss, because it would probably look like an over-reaction, but is there anything about this team that makes anyone think they can go on an extended hot streak this season. I’m not trying to be a jerk, but I just don’t see it right now.
1. the starting pitching is average.
2. the bullpen is below average
3. the lineup has more power this year, but this team all too cannot execute on the bases
4. the defensive numbers are better this year, but the best offensive lineup leaves some holes on the defensive side.
Any thoughts, or is it just me?
OK, that Harris and Punto flip-flop makes no sense to me whatsoever. I’m hoping it’s a typo. I can’t imagine why playing SS rather than 2B would be any easier on a guy’s ribs.
Yeah I know there’s a loud contingent wanting Gomez in the lineup, but actually I like having him available for the last 2-3 innings of a game to be plugged in at an opportune time and then finish the game in the field.
all too often is what I meant to say
I remember before Game 6 in 91 thinking, “This is a pretty important game… but I got a feeling June 29, 2009 is gonna be even more important. Just a hunch.”
I was pretty smart for a pimply 8th grader.
Adam, what I like about your prediction — unfortunately — is the way you target Henn with your squirtgun of justice. If anyone can find any statistics that support Henn’s throwing at this level, please cite them.
Question — why have we abandoned Mauer in the two spot? I know how well Harris is playing. And Denard is Denard. But I’d rather see Harris one slot ahead of Crede.
Punto is at SS tonight because it is Gardy’s way of testing everything about his ribs — long throws, more ground to cover, et cetera. This says to me Gardy does not believe what Punto is telling him.
Let’s not get too down out here. Not many teams with our limited access to capital have a four straight of Mauer, Morneau, Kubel, Cuddyer. And Blackburn is sharp. I still love our Twins, even if we did pay Punto $4M/year, even if Bill Smith is our GM, and even if Sean Henn is still wearing a TC cap.
T-Mouse
Glad to see Young in. Its been way too long since he was in the starting lineup and he is hitting better as of late.
Would not mind seeing Gomez though either. He could use some at bats as well.
onthemark - I’m sure it’s the other way round, must be a typo.
This is a relatively big game. We have demonstrated the ability to beat NL central teams on the road, but if we’re going to compete for the division it’s the AL Central road games we need to win, especially in Chicago and Detroit.
They just announced that the lineup is a mistake. Switch Punto’s and Harris’ positions….
Wow. The Royals lineup is pitiful.
Of course, I thought the same thing about the Cardinals if you subtract that Pujols fellow.
Icon, you were right about the Cardinals lineup if you subtract that Pujols fellow.
Of course, as Kevin Slowey learned on Saturday, it isn’t quite so easy to subtract Pujols.
The good news is that nobody has ever mistaken Billy Butler for Albert Pujols.
Thanks LaVelle… that makes a lot more sense.
to bad the twins are always the only team with injuries!
Thanks LaVelle, agree with JC, the Puntz at 2B, Harris at SS makes much more sense.
I like having Gomez available for the last 2 or 3 innings as well, but I just don’t see the kid progressing sitting as much as he does. Send him to AAA, let him start down there, and bring him back up if somebody goes down. This is not doing him any good.
And when he does get back in the lineup, after inconsistent starts like this, and struggles, we will all hear the “Gomez is a bust” contingent.
Well Butler wears blue and Pujols red… so that makes it easy to tell them apart. 
Just don’t take anything for granted against the Royals. This is the team that has won two of three in the last two series in Minnesota.
Sorry, beetle, I just don’t see it that way. Whether as a starter or not, Gomez plays a role for the Twins. Unless/until they fall out of the race, you don’t send him down without having a better bench option available. The name of the game is to get as many wins as possible. I also think it doesn’t necessarily hurt a guy to learn that you sometimes have to accept a lesser role than you’re accustomed to.
Brainfreeze, what are the pitching stats the last 30 days?
Really don’t care to revisit the good ol’ days of May with an injured Perkins, and Humber, Breslow, and Crain.
So yeah — I looked it up — the Twins are 3.35 ERA the last 30 days, 4th in the League.
Gomez was the best player on teh field the last 2 games he started. His reward is to ride the bench for 4 games now.
So stupid imo…the kid showed an improved approach. Not just results…we are talking a new approach. This OF situation needs to be resolved permanently.
This is our very best lineup and we have Blackburn on the hill with a chance to go two over .500. A game worth watching tonight!
I have to agree with Mr. Crikket. It is best to have Gomez in the majors for the reasons he spelled out.
Also, if the Twins sent Gomez to Rochester, they would have to call up Jason Pridie or some other AAA player to be their top backup in the outfield. Essentially, that would mean that they would not have their best players in the big leagues. No contending team should be in that position.
I’m confused. If Gomez starts isn’t he available for the last 2-3 innings if you don’t pull him from the game?
AaronK….maybe the OF situation is resolved, just not to your satisfaction?????
Maybe I missed the metaphor…why is this a HUGE game?
1. Brendan Harris, SS
2. Joe Mauer, C
3. Justin Morneau, 1B
4. Michael Cuddyer, RF
5. Jason Kubel, DH
6. Joe Crede, 3B
7. Denard Span, CF
8. Delmon Young, LF
9. Nick Punto, 2B
Young in the lineup and Morales on the bench. Sigh…
But……..LENII, the Twins are already assured of a winning month this June.
Of course, Fredo. But you lose the ability to insert him at the point you can best make use of his limited talents (say as a PR in a close game). It leaves you with pinch running options of Morales, Tolbert, Buscher, Redmond and Young.
Ron Gardenhire = growth stunter for Gomez and Buscher
I don’t get why Gomez isn’t playing; he is far better defensively than Young, he showed big strides at the plate in Milwaukee whereas Young will probably see 5 pitches in 3 ABs, and Gomez has a .667 career ave. against Hochevar.
Gardy says that if Pun-terrible has any problems, he’s going on the DL. Brilliant move! If he goes on tomorrow, he’s out until July 13th. If he went on the DL this very moment, they could make it retroactive to last week, thus allowing him to play a week or so earlier.
BTW, Pun-terrible gets all of this praise for playing the “Twins way” and being a team player, yet he continues to hamstring the team by not being available and giving them a shorter bench.
Way to be a team player Nick. Keep up those head first slides buddy. You’re awesome!!!
I don’t think Gomez has been the “best player on the field” in any game he has EVER started for the Twins. He may have an occasional statistically good game. That does not make him the “best player on the field.”
I’d rather have my best defensive center fielder in the game for nine innings. An outfield with Span and Gomez in it makes me feel better than any configuration with Young in it. I don’t believe that Gomez’s offense vs. Young costs us that much when you mix in the defensive aspect. I’m kind of a holistic guy that way.
OK well I can see where this thread is headed already tonight. Time to check out other options before game time. You all enjoy your “whine and jeez”.
Why is thinking that Gomez is a better outfielder than Young whining?
I completely agree with Gomez. And all I am saying is that people need to ease up on Gomez if this is what his role is going to be at the moment. He’s a young player getting inconsistent at-bats. Not exactly a recipe for progress.
JimCrikket,
Fine he was the best performer his last 2 starts. Forget the stats, which are pretty good…he ignited the team and had great AB’s.
Dr Don,
The OF situation is far from resolved. They will jerk Young out of the lineup again…just like he has been the last 5 games or so.
JC…I could not have said it better than you did.
What good is Carlos Gomez doing on the bench every day? He may be an energetic body in the clubhouse, but his enormous potential cannot be tapped into without his playing regularly - either at Rochester or Minnesota.
I meant that I completely agree with Fredo’s point.
Wow, some grouchy folks tonight. I don’t think anybody has said anything outlandish in regards to the PT of Gomez. I think it’s a real issue that needs to be addressed. He is not going to improve under this current OF guise in my book.
Having 2 23 year old players in and out of the lineup all the time is not best for them or the club longterm. Especially when both players are considered high ceiling prospects. That is just the way I feel.
I mean if you don’t want to read peoples opinions why would you come to a blog? That is the entire reason the blog exists. While I get annoyed by people who spew nothing but hate, this is a far cry from that.
Twins Fix:
I would much rather have Carlos Gomez on the bench than Jason Pridie! And that’s exactly who would be here if we sent Gomez to AAA.
Also, while Gomez is here he isn’t just sitting on the bench twiddling his thumbs. He still takes batting and fielding practice and he has plenty of opportunity to work on his hitting techniques with Joe Vavra. Just because he doesn’t play every day doesn’t mean he is doing nothing.
Also, if you accept that the only way for him to get better is to face major league pitching, then playing every third day in the majors is still a lot better than playing every day in the minors!
maybe we are just playing cuddyer every day as a means to up his trade value to fill the black hole that has been middle relief.
frankly, i love the young/gomez/span outfield. cuddyer is just the kind of player that can be magically transformed into a reliable bullpen arm.
sorry, i couldnt resist the magic jab, either.
Actually, I’d rather have Pridie up here, Gomez as a starter in CF and Young in the minors. That can’t happen due to the contracts so I’d rather have Gomez playing every day in AAA and Pridie doing what he did here the last two weeks. Did he get in? That’s what a backup OF should do if you have healthy and productive starters.
Gomez should not be sitting on the bench if he’s the best defensive center fielder on the team. “Twins’ Way…pitching and defense” Right, let’s let the best CF sit and watch.
I have no problem with how Cuddyer is playing (at least recently), and fully understand he is a Gardenhire “favorite” so he will get his regular PT.
But why not give him more days off here and there and mix in Gomez more? Keep
Cuddyer and his fragile fingers fresh for the long haul this year, and Gomez gets some more at-bats and general experience. I just don’t think it should be an automatic that Cuddyer is in the lineup every night, not with this many good, young outfielders.
True, Pridie did not play while he was here. That’s becuase the Twins were playing without a DH, though, and Kubel was in the OF. He’ll be back at the DH spot now, and all of the outfielders will be playing from time to time, including Gomez.
And completely agree that it makes more sense to have Pridie up right now. Let him be the reserve off the bench and waste away.
Best line-up possible. Gomez at CF over Span is crazy. Don’t listen to that 98 guy. He’s off his rocker.
This line-up will take the Twins to the World Series.
Icon, read JimCrikket’s 6:24 post. It does no good to try argue some sense with bloggers who don’t have it their way and “whine and jeez” all night. And the game hasn’t even started yet.
I don’t think Pridie played against Houston and Pitt while here. As for Gomez getting practice with Vavra and not playing as some kind of benefit…they should have done the same with Casilla then. They have a glaring need in the MI and they could have kept him around working with the ML coaching staff and Vavra. They could have done that with Bartlett back in the day, or Baker,Liriano, etc. instead of send them down. I don’t buy that. Send Gomez down and let him work on his game there if you’re only going to use him as a defensive replacement when he should play every inning and provide that defense.
Cake.
Fredo….Casilla played himself out of the lineup and back to AAA by being inept on defense.
But Dr. Don, arguing is one of my favorite parts of being a fan!
UPDATE:
Bert just said Crede is scratched.
I know, DD, I was just illustrating that sitting on the bench in the ML is a good thing because you get to work on your flaws with the ML staff. That just sounds like a rationalization to me and not what is conventional wisdom for the Twins when they send down players to “work on their game, their leadership, their hitting, etc.” I don’t think that that should be a reason to keep Gomez on the ML roster earning service time while he sits.
I presume Buscher.
I prefer Tolbert.
Buscher?
Oh no, not Buscher!
Butcher in. Just confirmed.
Well, so much for having the regular lineup…it has been an issue to gaining consistency and traction. Whatever one’s notion of what the “regular” lineup should be it has to be admitted that the entire palette of options hasn’t been available much.
Khaaaaaaaaaaaaannnn!!!!
I mean “Buuuuuuuusssssccccheeerrrrr!!!”
Well……I’ve been getting a more positive take on Buscher lately.
Here’s his chance.
So if sucks was a DL-able injury could Punto be put on retroactively to sometime early in 2007? So please Mr. Smith if your going to settle for “healing the bullpen from with in”, get us a viable second baseman! Is that asking too much?
So as long as you make an argument for the decision made by the staff it is ok? You can’t make arguments from another perspective? Wow, what an exciting blog that would be. That is the American way these days I suppose
That’s the spirit, Romer.
Maybe Buscher can go yard tonight!
I know that I’m starting to go crazy because not only am I seeing this giant rabbit with me all the time I’ve contemplated a lineup against righties with Cuddyer at 2nd, Kubel in right and Buscher as the DH.
Kill me now.
KREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEDEEE!!!!!!
(I smell a bad back.)
I don’t think Buscher for Crede should be too much of a problem vs. Hochevar.
Yeah, clast, he and Harris can be buddies in the field and at the plate.
Cuddy at 2nd would clear the outfield logjam and relegate Punto to his proper role. Might be worth a shot.
Great. I’m calling it, then. Buscher will hit a 375 foot home run in the second inning tonight.
Mark my words (if I’m right).
we don’t need anymore excuses it’s time for the twins to prove they aren’t a .500 team. to much talent on this team to have a worse record than the mariners. start kicking some a** or blow the thing up.
(I smell a bad back.)
The official reason for the scratching was a “tight back”, so you smell well
I don’t think Buscher for Crede should be too much of a problem vs. Hochevar.
I think that Buscher for Crede will be a bit of a problem on ground balls/line drives hit towards 3B.
Icon,
It’s a given. Buscher will hit a home run and,hopefully, not cause MVP’s arm to be ripped off by Callaspo. I have small goals.
Very bad news re Crede.
Romer, can you smell RBIs too?
What’s the bad news re: Crede?
Good start, Denard Span!
Terrible bunt by Harris.
Bad start, Harris…..
romer,
he should be hitting not bunting there…
thry, either he should not be bunting or if your philosophy is to bunt in that situation is to bunt, he should not be batting second as he has not shown the ability to lay it down this year.
sorry, kind of repeated myself with the “is to bunt” in the last post
I like the fact Gardy has tried Harris in the 2nd spot in the order. With that being said…the more I see it the more I realize he is better fit in a run producing role. 6-8 type role fits him better imo.
You’re forgiven, Ben.
Well, Buscher got that one all right.
No question about that AK. Move M&M up.
Crede’s back acting up? Everybody cross your fingers that he can rest it out.
I’m starting to think that Crede’s inevitably going to wind up on DL. These little twinges and tweaks here and there are going to add up at some point.
Hochevar is running up a lot of pitches so far. I don’t think he’ll last too long tonight.
Okay, Buscher. Prove me right.
Well, Buscher made a mockery of my 6:57 post by walking. So I’m wrong unless the Twins bat around in this inning and Busher smacks one in his next at bat.
Hochevar didn’t give him a chance Icon.
According to Dick/Bert yesterday, Crede was going to spend Sunday night at his home in Linn, Mo. Wonder what he and the missus were up to….???
A Punto homer would be even better than a Buscher homer…
2nd time through the order is Hochevar’s bugaboo.
Aww crap.
Twins spent too long in interleague play…I was sitting there thinking “Hopefully Punto gets it done bfeore the pitcher comes up”
And that kids is why you ALWAYS run it out.
Great clutch hitting again.
Late to the party, sorry…
1. Bunt in the first inning. Ugh.
2. On Crede, let’s hope it’s nothing serious, but with his history I think if the Twins get 120 relatively healthy games out of him, that’s the most anybody could’ve planned for.
3. WTF Cuddyer? Hand them a run.
Leadoff double, three weak fly balls.
Well done.
It’s Luke Hochaver, fellas.
Awful, just awful.
can someone remind me why delmon young is on the twins again?
Bats need to wake up.
Because he is an RBI machine Mighty Casey.
The bottom of our lineup sucks..
Time to give some new guys a chance….Either send those three down or trade one or two…They do nothing for this team….
OB,
It nighttime, so the bats should be awake, because, as you know, they’re nocturnal animals.
Mighty Casey……because he swings at first pitches and makes the games go faster.
the bottom of the lineup does suck…
at least punto offers stellar defense and baserunning. young is worthless in all facets of the game. buscher is also less than serviceable - although he is only in today due to crede’s bad back.
Rough inning. Not the end of the world, though.
One hit through 5 innings off a guy with a 5 plus ERA. Pathetic.
Is Nicky Punto the most hardheaded player in baseball, is he the biggest idiot on the Twins or is Vavra just not earning his paycheck. Look Punto, you are NOT going to hit any home runs, shorten your damn stroke when you have two strikes and hit a seeing eye single or a bloop anything other than your little can of the corn to the outfield that you love to hit with men in scoring position. Gomez gets scorched for swinging from the heels in similar situations but LNP keeps getting love. Bleah!
If Gardenhire is the one responsble for keeping Buscher and Tolbert and Gomez in the majors he needs to be canned. If he is the responsible for having Morales on the club and never using him, he deserves to be shown the door. Ridiculous…
stupid play by delmon
Boy this team has trouble scoring runs. We’d be a horrible team if not for Morneau, Maurer and Kubel.
Young, Tolbert, Punto, Gomez, Buscher and Young should all be down at Rochester.
For who tbob?
Attaboy Span, show Delmon who is the only real player in the OF. Gotta love it!
I’m starting to have visions of post-game comments by Gardenhire and others….Something like;
“Well, we battled our tails off out there but that Hochevar kid through the hell out of the ball. Not much we could do.”
And that, in a nutshell is why this team continues to be average.
If Young, Tolbert, Punto, Gomez, Buscher and Young should all be at Rochester, please tell us who from Rochester is better and should be up?
send them down for…………..???
Can Blackburn wiggle out of this?
I’ll believe at after 9 beetle.
There is no offensive help in Rochester. Casilla is the only major league player down there.
OB, bring up Valencia as Crede’s back up at 3b, Tolleson to play 2b, Hughes as the utility infielder. I mentioned Young twice, lol, sorry about that. I would like to see him packaged in a trade.
Valencia is going to be the 3b next year, he can back up Crede and DH this year. Tolleson and Hughes are both better than Tolbert and Buscher. Punto? If he would quit trying to be Nicky Homer and become Nicky scratch single and hit .250-.260 he’d be fine. The problem is he won’t.
Tolleson for Tolbert perhaps. Glove is a question mark, though.
Valencia is going to be the 3b next year
That is exactly the reason he needs to be in Rochester playing every day.
man..gardy is such a baby and argues about the dumbest stuff.
Gardy went out there with the express purpose of getting tossed.
“That is exactly the reason he needs to be in Rochester playing every day.”
exactly.
I think they need a new hitting coach. One who can at least see that Delmon swings without much success at the first pitch too much and can get him to stop. And one that can teach Gomez and Casilla how to bunt and put the ball on the ground and use their speed to get on base. Also, can fix Crede’s problem of popping up so much. Start with that.
I still don’t get why the ump was so thickheaded about not even asking another ump.
Fellas, I say again. It’s Luke Hochaver.
They’ve got six more outs, topps, then it’s Soria time.
Exactly, T. After all, Kubel and Gardy were right.
Hughes is hitting .259 in Triple A and Pridie .246 - stiffs.. I would take Randy Ruiz over both 15/66/.322
What is going to make Mauer want to stick around on this team?
Wrong or right romer, the ump should at least CHECK to see if there was anything else going on.
Blackburn…Blackburn…eck.
maybe as a precausion against losing we could start to play some baseball like big-leaguers. This game = yuck.
Gardy fired up the wrong team.
Gardy woke up the wrong team.
It’s not the umps fault the Twins are trailing 3-0 to Luke Hochaver, and have given up back to back HRs to Callaspo and Olivo.
If Tony Pena homers, I am writing off this season.
oops sorry darren
Im done listening to this crap.
DeJesus is high up on my list of ‘most hated Twins killers.’
Dude can’t hit a lick until he sees Twins pitching.
If Tony Pena homers, I am writing………just kidding.
how much longer can the twins afford to run out a below-average SS everyday?
to answer my own question… Casilla’s struggles have proved to have an enormously negative impact on this season to date.
I hear you on DeJesus. Far from the worst though. I am of the opinion if Mike Sweeney went blind for some reason, or lost a limb, or both, he still would hit a HR if a Twins pitcher pitched to him.
Twins are mailing this one in. Typical of this below average team to piss down their legs after a decent weekend in St Louis. One step forward two steps back. At least we don’t have to talk about this manufactured idea that Blackburn is anything but a #4 pitcher in the rotation. This talk about him being an “ace” and a “stopper” was getting a little foolish.
Can Harris DH for Punto
how much longer can the twins afford to run out a below-average SS everyday?
to answer my own question… Casilla’s struggles have proved to have an enormously negative impact on this season to date.
That situation can more accurately be traced to the decision by Bill Smith to give Nick Punto the starting shortstop job last December, IMO.
When, predictably, Punto proved unable to play well enough and/or stay healthy enough to keep the position, the dominos start to tumble.
Casilla playing as poorly as he has shouldn’t be a shock to anyone, either. He had a good 2 months last season, but has been pretty execrable other than that.
Blackburn 6 IP and 2 ER and he struggled - I would take that any day.
2 ER’s for Blackie tonight, savvyspy.
Lavelle does not need to bring up the “big game” again anytime soon. The last big game was #163 last year and the bats did the same exact thing.
Yay!! Being one-hit by a guy with a career ERA of over 5….WTG Twinks!!
Anyone who still thinks this team has what it takes to win the division with our team as is is smokin some heavy $hit that I’d like to have….
where do the twins rank in come-from-behind wins this season?
seeing eye single or not, i’ve had enough of delmon once and for all……
I don’t blame Smith for re-signing Punto for 9 million. I blame Gardy. I blame our bullpen on Smith. Henn for Breslow? 1.3 million for Ayala? Jesse Crain being on the roster costing us game after game? That I pin on Smith.
where do the twins rank in come-from-behind wins this season?
I bet it’s well below where they rank on the ‘come-from-ahead-losses’ list.
Nick would have been safe if he would have head-firsted.
Slacker.
Alrighty then….Back to the DL you go Nicky. Thanks for playing.
Nice job Punthead. Next time do one of your patented head first slides into first.
Punto to the DL after that AB. Pun-terrible will whine about his ribs hurtung and that’s why he can’t causing Gardy to put him in the DL…THANK GOD!!! See you in a couple weeks LNP
Good one Chief! I think you are right on!
I don’t blame Smith for re-signing Punto for 9 million.
Gardy may have wanted him, but he didn’t ink that contract. Smith did, and if he didn’t think it was a good idea he wouldn’t have done it. Or shouldn’t have done it.
Go out and find a better shortstop. Gardy would get over it.
If our starters are gonna be pansies, it’s time to get some decent reserves. Tolbert, Redmond, Buscher, Punto should be a reserve. Y’ish.
The Minnesota Mighty 500’s need a big 8th and 9th to pull this out.
I wonder if Dickey can hit at all. If so, plug him in to this lineup.
I have one word. . .embarassing!
Span’s been quiet for a few games.
He leads off.
can anyone give Hochevar credit for pitching a good game?
Freddie Sanchez anyone:)?
No. He is a pitcher the Twins need to perform against. Period.
Yeah, AJ……..win one for Ulger!!!!
Go out and find a better shortstop. Gardy would get over it.
really?
Gardy had a better SS last year (they didn’t re-sing him and he let him rot on the bench last September- see what he does for the Tiggers now). Gardy had a better SS this year but he let him ride the pine for a while.
It’s more than that. Even if the Twins had Hanley Ramirez and Ian Kinsler in the roster, Gardy would have find a way to play LNP everyday unless he got strongarmed.
You have to be friggn kidding me.
Another nail in the coffin.
if mauer, morneau, and kubel go hitless against a pitcher (especially a 1st rd draft pick)… i will give that pitcher props. the defense tonight has been a joke, however.
And as they speak well about Dickey he goves up a single and a triple…Crap award gets handed out to the whole team…
really?
Gardy had a better SS last year (they didn’t re-sing him and he let him rot on the bench last September- see what he does for the Tiggers now). Gardy had a better SS this year but he let him ride the pine for a while.
It’s more than that. Even if the Twins had Hanley Ramirez and Ian Kinsler in the roster, Gardy would have find a way to play LNP everyday unless he got strongarmed.
You may be right, you may be wrong. I believe when Punto played last year, he was the generally the best option. That’s on the GM.
Punto is clearly the best option at 2nd base right now. That’s on the GM.
Harris IS playing short, and has been for some time now.
And if you’re right, and for some reason Gardy just can’t help himself when it comes to Punto, it’s up the GM to tell his manager Punto won’t be on the roster this year, rather than sign him to a ridiculous 2 year contract and then sit on his hands for the rest of the winter.
take punto out and replace him with…..
i do blame gardy for putting a worthless Delmon Young in the lineup everyday. inexcusable for a team trying to win this season.
Just can’t handle sucess. Dickey goes a long time giving up nothing, then everyone starts talking him up, now he falls apart in two straight games..
Whoops…forgot to turn off the italics.
sorry.
On June 22nd, I golfed in a Heroes and Cool Kids charity event at the Edgewood CC in River Vale, NJ. Our “celebrity” golfer was Joe Pignatano (80 YO). Joe was a coach with the Mets and knows and likes Gardy. He had a lot of good things to say about Gardy and Gardy’s knowledge of the game. He said that Gardy is well respected in MLB by other managers and by coaches, players, and FO folks. But, hey, Joe likely isn’t nearly as smart as all of us bloggers and can’t possibly know as much as do we.
(He knew that I was a Twins fan, because of my Twins’ head covers and golf towel.)
FINALLY a bunt!
the diamondbacks killed hochevar 2 starts ago………… so not that much credit. our boys have to hit, they are good hitters, right? gomez can hit like span is hitting.. and better defense. shame to cool him off by not playing him.
Why does this team always make Olivo look like Oliva? He is hitting .262 and he hits the Twins like batting practice. Someone is getting him out. Where are our advance scouts? Looks like we are the only team that doesn’t know how to pitch to him. We keep waiting for the Twins to shake out of it. But will the bottom drop out first! We just can’t hit. We score 10 runs in 3 games in St Louis and got lucky and win 2. You have to be a better scoring team then this team shows night in and night out to have a shot at any kinda title. To many bums.
whattodo:
Your name and e-mail were in my boxes, you should register on the blog with a fake e-mail address, there are a lot of mix ups here.
i agree with you Chief, that if Punto is on the team it is the GM’s responsibility, not Gardy’s.
remind me who was a better alternative to Punto in the free agent market though?
take punto out and replace him with…..
Tolleson
or a trade
and Punto, is not really the problem here.
Bunting in the blasting first inning is a problem, playing Redmond over Morales, thinking that Buscher can make plays at 3B (he messed up 2 tonight), leaving the best fielding OF on the bench, are the main problems (tonight for starters)
if mauer, morneau, and kubel go hitless against a pitcher (especially a 1st rd draft pick)… i will give that pitcher props. the defense tonight has been a joke, however.
a) It’s Luke Hochaver.
b) I go back to the first inning. Hochaver walks the leadoff hitter, and he and everybody in the stadium is going ‘oh no, here we go again.’ What do we do? Bunt on the first friggin pitch. Easy out. Hochaver and everyone in the stadium relaxes.
You DO NOT sacrifice bunt in the first inning. EVER. Period. It’s losing baseball. Ridiculous.
Hochevar had a good start it happens.
Hello! Bloggers in St Louis were probably saying the same thing about Liriano yesterday!
remind me who was a better alternative to Punto in the free agent market though?
Cabrera, Hudson
and if you don’t want to go free agents: Tolleson, Hughes.
Someone else is posting under whattodo as well. Shaun I hope it is not mine but I am registered.
comeback time; I may stay at work now until the game ends.
Orlando Hudson signed for a lot less than Punto. Maybe not a SS, but then again, Punto isn’t playing short now either.
you’ve got to be kidding me
joe needs a rest. he just looks tired. time to see what morales can do.
You DO NOT sacrifice bunt in the first inning. EVER. Period. It’s losing baseball. Ridiculous.
So, Chief, are you agreeing with me that Gardy was wrong with that move? And maybe the manager needs some blame here?
Hudson is a 2nd Basemen
Mauer should sit out another month. Wow what a pathetic game all around by our Twinkies.
Most people would like to see what Morales can do. Not Gardy though.
Thank you Morneau. Dang you Mauer.
alright, next, back-to-back-to-back.
Gardy needs to move Mauer back to the #2 spot where he was producing more hits and runs!!
Just to be clear, I do like Gardy as a manager. He obviously relates well to his team and generally gets the most out of the talent he has. My one huge complaint is that he plays favorites, sometimes to the detriment of the team.
bunting in front of 2 of the best hitters in baseball is not a bad move in any inning. potentially hitting into a double play would be a bad move.
the problem is the player the twins run out to SS cannot execute simple baseball plays.
“remind me who was a better alternative to Punto in the free agent market though?”
anyone.
romer @ 6:14, thanks for the stat. Like I said, it could just be me, but I just don’t see it happening this year, and I can’t think of any single trade that will make this team a contender.
Hopefully I’m wrong.
So, Chief, are you agreeing with me that Gardy was wrong with that move? And maybe the manager needs some blame here?
Yes, absolutely, unless Harris bunted on his own.
I am a Gardy defender, that doesn’t mean I agree with everything he does. I do think the answer involves better players, though, not a better manager.
Hudson is a 2nd Basemen
Who would look damn good playing second base, no? Many bloggers were calling for the Twins to sign Hudson this winter.
thrylos98 say sat 5:56 pm: The Red Wings should be able to beat this KC lineup (if Swarzak or Mulvey are starting)
where are the redwings when you need them?
I do like Gardy as a manager. He obviously relates well to his team and generally gets the most out of the talent he has. My one huge complaint is that he plays favorites, sometimes to the detriment of the team.
That sound a bit conflicted.
If he plays favorites, he does not “obviously relate well to his team and get the most out of what he has”. Because the ones who are not his favorites (read: Lohse, Garza, Bartlett, Young et. al.) will not perform at their best…
bunting in front of 2 of the best hitters in baseball is not a bad move in any inning
Yes. Yes it is.
You only get three outs per inning. Intentionally reducing that to 2 outs per inning is silly, particularly early in a game when you have no friggin idea whether you’ll need 1 run to win, or 10.
That we have 2 good hitters immediately following Harris is the exact reason NOT to bunt. One big inning can win a ballgame, witness Morneau’s three run jack in the first yesterday.
Sign Hudson and move Casilla to short? No one predicted Casilla would flop this year..
orlando cabrera would not be a welcome addition to any baseball team i am in favor of…
orlando hudson would have been nice… but that would have been risky. a risk the twins should have taken, in hindsight.
steve tolleson and luke hughes simply are not ready to play major league shortstop, especially with a team so dependent on the defensive play/leadership of the shortstop.
Well, Gardy certainly is a polarizing figure. I do think we could do a lot worse, but I do hear you on guys who are not his favorites doing better elsewhere.
steve tolleson and luke hughes simply are not ready to play major league shortstop, especially with a team so dependent on the defensive play/leadership of the shortstop.
second base. Not SS. Harris would be the SS
chief-
i’d glady manage against you, my friend.
gardy has to do everything in his power to make sure mauer and morneau come up with guys on base every single time they come to bat… guys in scoring position is even better.
he is relying heavily upon the guys in the order that can hit… God knows everyone else in the twins lineup doesn’t know what to do with a bat.
Tolleson can’t possibly hit worse than Tolbert is right now. I still like Tolbert as a utility player in the future though.
Hughes would be an upgrade over Buscher for the 3rd string 3B job/PH specialist
There was a stretch were Harris was getting on base…. then getting erased in double plays aren’t going to give Morneau RBI oppunities… it seems like Mauer has been hitting into a lot of DPs lately….
thrylos-
..got ya
in my opinion, harris is not ready to be a major league SS either…
contrary to blogging opinions, i believe gardy has completely done away with his so-called “favoritism” towards punto at SS by sacrificing all facets of the SS duties to a guy who can hit better than Punto… but glaringly struggles (especially compared to a Punto) is other important facets of the game.
We don’t give up the homers to those two pantywaistes and we are in position to win. Impossible to get three off Soria.
No one predicted Casilla would flop this year..
That is completely, utterly false. More accurately, nobody could have possibly predicted that Casilla would have a good month and a half last year.
You have a poor memory, or don’t read anything beyond this blog.
give us two HBPs.
good husle buscher
If favoritism is gone, then why does Redmond play every game Mauer doesn’t instead of Morales?
So you predicted Casilla flopping? Hudson at 2nd , Punto at short and Casilla as the extra MIF..
Why was Mauer moved out of the no. 2 spot? and Morneau out of the no. 3? Because they were producing runs? Gardy is an idiot. Stick with what works, who cares if it is by the “book”?
I used to think it was Morales’s D, but I don’t think it is that bad. Not like Buscher anyway.
No one predicted Casilla would flop this year..
That is completely, utterly false.
I second that emotion
A .500 team if I ever saw one…..
We hope that Detroit will lose to Oklnd.
Well, this one’s in the books, looks like we’ll have to take TWO out of three. We always do.
2 hits in 7 off Hochevar says it all.
If favoritism is gone, then why does Redmond play every game Mauer doesn’t instead of Morales?
Because as Gardy said (read La Velle’s blog a couple games ago): Redmond is his second catcher.
And who is to argue with the manager of the millennium?
That was a fitting end to that game.
luke hughes is hitting .259 in AAA (.370 against lefties but in 27 at-bats). plus his glove is said to be made of stone.
he’s barely the answer in rochester.
12 hits for the royals, 5 for the Twins. No one can bitch too much, it’s hard for Gardy to field a line up when all he has to work with is only a handful of good players, and the rest, Triple AAA at best.
well, good thing this game was HUGE.
This game was Exhibit A as to what this team becomes when Mauer and Morneau do not hit.
We can thank Morneau for the 2 runs, but how often is that enough to win a baseball game?
This game also should serve as Exhibit A for Bill Smith to do something about three enormous glaring holes on our ballclub (Punto, Buscher, and Tolbert–Punto and Buscher because of their continued poor play and Tolbert because he’s been bad enough to warrant putting the other two in the starting lineup).
Don’t hold your breath for change…Bill Smith is not Obama.
Was there ever a reason from Gardy why he stopped the Mauer/Morneau hitting 2 and 3 in the line-up? I know he said he likes that “slasher, hit-and-run” guy hitting second in the line-up (cuz the book says so), but I don’t exactly peg Harris as that guy. I love Harris’s bat, but more of a 8 hitter, he can drive in runs at the bottom of the order guy. He’s a good sac fly producer, unlike a Young or a definitely a Punto.
Delmon Young is just terrible, Gomez needs to play every day, and Span in left. Young is overmatched almost every at bat.
Why is everyone so riled up? All I saw tonight was a team that battled their collective tails off and there was nothing they could do against Luke Hovechar. I mean, the guy does have an ERA of….wait a second. Over 5 on the year?
Yeah, that game sucked.
Anyone seen Bill Smith lately? Is he on any milk cartons?
Young’s bat is slow so thru the zone its pathetic. The bat drags thru the zone like he is using at 39 oz bat
Side note: Houston Jimenez is my second favorite Twins shortstop of all time, trailing only Lenny Faedo.
“Young’s bat is slow so thru the zone its pathetic. The bat drags thru the zone like he is using at 39 oz bat”
t98 will have a stat for this I bet…..
Don’t hold your breath for change…Bill Smith is not Obama.
Jason,
so far I’ve been defending BS. But I am just about over the edge (I don’t know whether it is a play to get Gardy out of there but) he so far has listened to every of his quams: re-sign Punto at 4 times the going rate, send Casilla down to the minors (if anyone does not think that Gardy did that, please read Souhan’s column of 2 weeks ago) and pretty much expose his decisions. For sure it was a power struggle: BS is the new kid on the block and Gardy was around for a while. I think that it is about time that Pohlad Jr. does end this charade and fired them both (and the other stuff that comes with them). At least just to put some butts on the brand new seats in the brand new (mostly) tax-payer paid stadium. This team has been below mediocre since October 2006. This says a lot.
if i listen to the tv guys after the game they lost because of the heat in st louis.
if i read this stuff the twins would be 6-10 games ahead of the tigers if delmon wasn’t on the team.
truth is this is a .500 team and has been for 2 1/2 years now. they are who they are mediocre!
I’m sure old T98’s keyboard is going full bore, and his pocket protector has beads of sweat rolling off of it trying to find some shred of evidence that Delmon Young actually helps this team…
I know we have all been here before with the Twins trailing oing into the All-star weekend only to catch fire. And, I am on record as stating that I think they will be in it until the end, but they are really starting to fall behind in the loss column and seem unable to sustain any momentum they may generate. It is not just one fact of the game but a different one it seems each time. I still think the starting pitching will be fine but the BP, the bench, and the defense are all problems. I am starting to believe that Detroit is for real and will be tough to catch. I do not know if there is much that BS can do right now but he needs to be checking out all options or this season could get away really quickly.
Pete,
thanks for your concern.
Keyboard is fine, and I am not sure what a “pocket protector” is. But I suspect you know…
I almost hate to bring this up, but after seeing Valencia’s numbers in AA, and AAA, if the Twins can’t close the gap by the trade deadline would we look to trade Crede since he won’t have enough plate appearances to be a type B free agent?
i’m sure pete will blame everything wrong with this team on delmon!
2008 -lets see on May 27 Casilla was hitting .306 and on Sept 10 he was hitting .300 seems like more then a month and a half of solid hitting…
So you predicted Casilla flopping?
Again…LOTs of people questioned Casilla. Many people. Not just me.
Casilla has parts of four seasons at AAA, and produced a .274/.352/.339 (.691 OPS) line there. He never once achieved even a .700 OPS above AA ball. His defense has always been unreliable, and he’s something of a head case.
He had an insanely hot May when he was called up last year, to the tune of a .937 OPS. THe rest of the year:
June: .742
July: .718
August: .622
Sept/Oct: .574
There is nothing to get exited about over Casilla. Nothing. Never was.
For the record, over the winter I advocated signing Casey Blake, Rafael Furcal, and Orlando Hudson, in that order. I’m sure T can vouch for that…we had enough arguments over it.
Once none of that happened, I advocated signing Crede, if for no other reason than I could not bear the thought of watching Brian Buscher play 100+ games at third base.
I’m glad they have Crede, and hope he can stay healthy. Imagine if they didn’t have him. But the Twins would’ve been better off with Blake at third, and he wasn’t that expensive.
I almost hate to bring this up, but after seeing Valencia’s numbers in AA, and AAA, if the Twins can’t close the gap by the trade deadline would we look to trade Crede since he won’t have enough plate appearances to be a type B free agent?
Depends on where the Twins are. If they are close, they will not do it. But if they are way back they should absolutely do it. (But if they are that much behind, they better get the manager and his staff out before that point)
Thrylos,
I do. It is one of two things.
1. A device used by nerds like you to protect the pocket of a shirt from bleeding pens. Or,
2. A device used by DrDon to protect his pocket from “bleeding” procto instruments when out on the town with Romer.
There you have it.
gobbledygookguy says:
June 29th, 2009 at 10:18 pm
i’m sure pete will blame everything wrong with this team on delmon!
No, not everything, just one outfield spot.
Chief,
you and I might not agree on many things, but we both agreed that Casilla was a mirage last season…
here is my (then 10/08) take:
http://tenthinningstretch.blogspot.com/2008/10/middle-infield-market.html
(and, btw, this argument was made using numbers and not making numbers fit to the argument…)
Oh Goody, more cool, and useless numbers from Thrylose
I would love to sign those guys but Bill Smith aint Mr. Rourke and were not on fantasy island…
Guy hit over .300 for 4 months thats not to common. Tolbert and LNP are bareley doing that combined in 2009.. Be realistic if he would have kept that pace up he would have beat Mauer out for the batting title….
So your first choice was Blake so your 2nd basemen would have been Casilla. If you sign Furcal Casilla is your secund basemen if they sing Hudson are in that camp that said put Casilla at SS?
If you were thinking they would sign two of those guys off that list then your really off..
Pete (and re-pete),
dude, you have some anger issues, methinks. Drink a beer or a glass of wine (if you are old enough to drink) or if you are not, you might want to ask mommy and daddy to make some psychologist appointments. And please, do not cut yourself. That will not accomplish anything…
“2. A device used by DrDon to protect his pocket from “bleeding” procto instruments when out on the town with Romer.”
Pete, Pete……don’t be so CRABBY,
:)>
(and, btw, this argument was made using numbers and not making numbers fit to the argument…)
touche’
You should follow that model more often. 
I can backup Chief because I wanted Crede, Furcal, and Orlando Hudson, and he was one of the few people that agreed with me on anything. I also wanted Juan Cruz and Brandon Lyon.
Pete, here is a visual aid of two movie stars sporting pocket protectors:
http://www.80srewind.net/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/80s-nerds.jpg
Your welcome!
Chief,
I do.
If I make a statement, is because I believe in it. And I usually believe in it because I have numbers to support it.
It might look live “selective use of numbers”, but how about “selective use of statement”… because that what it really is.
Shaun, thanks for the link. Except, they aren’t movie stars, it’s Thyrlos and his girlfriend on the way to the Hall of Fame to dispute numbers…
What do you think the Twins could get for Crede since they probably aren’t going to sign him for next season?
We’re cool, t98. I disagree with some of your conclusions, and I’m sure you disagree with some of mine. I like looking at your numbers, even if I think you’re sometimes missing the big picture, or leaving out more complete information.
But I try not to get personal, and if we can’t argue about baseball on a blog, what’s the point of the blog? I find 300 posts of ‘Twins rule, Sox drool’ pretty boring.
Pete,
Do you have a foaming-at-the-brain protector? If you don’t know what is such a thing, I’ll tell you. It keeps your brain from bleeding angry nosense onto a blog site.
And Pete, you’re out of line.
Grow the $*$# up.
Hey,
a couple of things to note here:
a. Chief, it’s all good. Disagreement and intelligent conversation is all good and it is extremely appreciated
b. There are some people who would have not ever say things in front of people’s faces and they do in they anonymity of the internets (sic). It’s ok. Really. At some point you got to draw a line and keep it (and ignore that noise). It’s all about self-respect y’know…
A. Just a big mouth.
B. Nothing useful to say.
C. Doesn’t know what he’s talking about.
D. Just trying to sucker people into an argument.
E. A classic troll.
F. Ignore him. (In other words, “F” him.)
Thrylos,
While I don’t always agree with you, and I know how you’ve felt about my opinions. I tend to like your passion for baseball, and for numbers.
I think I’m more with Chief on this one. There are other things that are as important as numbers sometimes even more so though.
Roger Pavlik always put up great numbers in the minors, but if you ever saw his delivery you knew he was a walking time-bomb. A terrible batting stance, poor glove work, and other things that you can only get by seeing a player play.
E451,
if you looked in Pavlik’s minor league numbers, you’d see that he walked too many. Not unlike Henn.
And yes you can see a lot of things from people playing the game and I am not opposed to that. Case in point: Brian Buscher. DickBert said he had “no errors” at 3B this year in this game, but I suspect you know better…
Some simple observations from tonight’s game. T98 & Chief, Appreciate your input but fear you are are debating with a multiple personality using many names and all mutually supportive. This game gave me pause when I heard that Larry Vanover was behind the plate. Vanover is inconsistent at best and damn near criminal when he’s at his usual worst. The Twins were flat, in part, because of STL and the heat and hoopla of that series. Lastly, as ggg posted, this team is mediocre sans Mauer, Morneau & Namath and seems to lack leadership, both on and off the field.
Thrylos,
Exactly. Range is something that is still not 100% properly qualified in numbers. I am pretty sure that Buscher is never going to start more than 30 games a year unless it’s due to injury. He is a 23rd guy on the roster, and Dick/Bert, and even worse Gordo and Gladden giving opinions and facts have to be taken with about a 5lb bag of salt, and double checked.
Daniel1966,
I am not sure about that multiple persona(lity) person you are referring to (and not that I care), but here is Vanover’s strike zone tonight:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3376/3673615733_815aba8527_o.png
you gotta to admit, that it was mighty fair and good
The Twins aren’t mediocre; the competition is tougher in the last few years. Teams are better at drafting. Look, the Nats took 2 of 3 from the Yanks in NYC.
Baseball is a game of endurance; it’s a 162-game season. Due to the many games, flukes, chance, luck, & etc. have an outcome in more baseball games than any other sport. Some poor teams play well against some good teams. Some players hit well against certain pitchers. Some pitchers throw well against certain teams and hitters.
The Yanks have a problem with short-throwing pitchers and rookie pitchers making their first start against the Yanks.
Just as some don’t want to read blogs that consist of nothing more than the Twins rule and the Sox drool, some don’t want to read unsubstantiated negativism. For example, T98, there is in baseball (and I know that we both follow the some stat sites), much controversy over what impact a manager has on a team’s ability to win.
LaRussa has a great reputation, but he has won only 2 WS and his first with the A’s featured a steroid fueled line up. In 2006, with a team that won 83 games and won some very flukey games in the post season following unusual performances by non-stars. Look at Bucky Dent’s HR against Boston.
Sheesh, folks, and this includes Souhan’s column of tonight, get a perspective on the game of baseball. It’s an everyday sport with a long season.
Joe,
Baseball is getting tougher, but not in the AL Central. The Twins are not playing well enough to be better than they are, but it’s not due to the competition. It’s because they are not playing well. No excuses. This team can win the division because they have the talent to, but they aren’t playing well enough to do it.
The Twins aren’t mediocre
The Twins are 39-39. They haven’t been more than a couple games above or below .500 all year, and we’re almost halfway through. Since the start of the 2007 season, they are 9 games over .500, with a third place finish, a second place finish, and are currently tied for second place.
That sounds like the very definition of ‘mediocre’ to me.
“…this team is mediocre sans Mauer, Morneau & Namath…”
Daniel1966 and ggg, Cuddy and Crede are kind of neck-and-neck on track for 45 HR’s and about 153 RBIs combined at season’s end. Likewise, Kubel at 27 HR’s and 87 RBIs.
72 HR’s and 240 RBIs for three guys. That’s an average of 24 HR’s and 80 RBIs each of ‘em. Not mediocre.
Blackburn at 3.10 ERA with 107 innings already. Not mediocre. Slowey’s 10 wins not mediocre.
Dickey amassing about 40 innings out of the pen already with a 2.45 ERA. Not mediocre.
Guerrier and Mijares with a combined 57 innings and a combined 2.65 ERA. Not mediocre.
That’s 8 players besides M&M and Nathan.
Then we can argue about Perkins’ and Baker’s chances at being mediocre the rest of this year.
You’d also have trouble getting people to agree with you that Span is merely mediocre.
Cheer up a little, and come out from under your rock more often.
Joe,
That would be an interesting point if WS wins was a largely relevant point in judging a manager. If it was I guess Gardy would be on a long list of tied for worst managers ever in baseball.
I don’t know anyone in his era, based on reputation and/or record, who can claim to be a better manager than LaRussa. There may be some who are just as good, I just don’t think anyone can claim they are better.
If you want to pick on someone pick on Torre as just a guy who wins because he has high payroll/great players…
Just came in from the deck and watching the sun go down over the mountains of the great Southwest. T98, I could care less about what Vanover’s overall stats were…it’s the 2-3 critical calls each time he wants to be the great equalizer that annoys me. Thanks to all of you responders for not mentioning my faux pas of calling Nathan/Namath. I appreciate your courtesy. Mr. romer, I admire your positive outlook re: the Twins personnel, but their so-so play is either reflective of their talent, their leadersship or both. To Mr. Joe the First, Sheesh. (Sigh).
“Thanks to all of you responders for not mentioning my faux pas of calling Nathan/Namath.”
actually, i like it better with namath.
lots of good posts tonight.
Chief,
What you just read could also be looked at as consistantly good as well. It depends on your perspective. I’m a life long Pirates fan. How do you think that the Pirates would feel with 3 seasons of being 8 games over 500? They would feel like world champs. Look at the Rangers…
but what the Twins have done is bread consistantly above average, and failed to make the moves that could make them contenders.
Giving away Castillo for a mediocre OF prospect, and a catcher that couldn’t hit water if he was chained to the Titanic instead of bringing in a hitter.
Not bringing in a reliever last year.
Not bringing in a bat 5-6 years in the last decade.
I think the players overall are over achievers. I mean look at Punto. He doesn’t belong on a town team, and here he is getting 4.5 million a year.
The team has to overcome it’s management every season.
Mediocre (some definitions): average, ordinary, indifferent, middling, pedestrian, commonplace, vanilla (slang) insignificant, so-so (informal) banal, tolerable, run-of-the-mill, passable, undistinguished, uninspired, no great shakes (informal) fair to middling (informal)
In my estimation, a .500 record is mediocre.
Not consistently ‘bad’ like the Pirates.
Not consistently ‘good’ like the Yankees.
Mediocre.
And the shame of it is, they have some very, very, un-mediocre players. Great players even.
And some mediocre ones to fill in.
So far, so good.
They just seem to be willing to put too many very, very bad players into everyday roles, and these bad players end up wasting a lot of the contributions of the very good players, often dragging the results down to ‘mediocre.’
If they had the will, smarts, money or sack (whatever they’re lacking) to stop settling for filling out the roster with the bad players, they wouldn’t have to settle for mediocre.
A suckhole at second base wasting a great catcher is pretty much the same as two average players at the positions, IMO.
How dare you call Punto a suckhole! Ok, I’m kidding, I think he’s the worst player in major league baseball, but I don’t think that .500 is a mediocre number because less than half of the teams in baseball finish with records at .500 or better.
last year the twins picked up adam everett and he got run outa town. this year the guy is hitting .262 with 9 2b, 2 hr and 27 rbi in less than 200 plate appearances. if he had those numbers for the twins this year the front office would look pretty smart.
the twins picked up the right player a year too early. can the gm be faulted for that?
Mickey Mental,
Timing is everything.
Mickey Mental -
Bill “on his own” Smith is a failure so far any way that you look at it, not many of his decisions have paid off other than Nathan and long term to Morneau.
my point is not to run interference for the twins front office. but dickey and crede have worked out pretty well.
Crede has had his moments, but too few, and too far between to announce him the solution at third. He has missed 19 games this year, and is hitting below .240. He is about the same as Punto, except with more power.
last year the twins picked up adam everett and he got run outa town. this year the guy is hitting .262 with 9 2b, 2 hr and 27 rbi in less than 200 plate appearances. if he had those numbers for the twins this year the front office would look pretty smart.
Then why didn’t Bill Smith have the courage of his convictions, and bring Everett back for another year, rather than handing Nick Punto $8M and committing to him at short?
I don’t think that .500 is a mediocre number because less than half of the teams in baseball finish with records at .500 or better.
I’m not going to get into an extended debate about the definition of ‘mediocre’ but that’s just a silly statement.
As of this morning, 14 of 30 teams have a better than .500 record, and another 3 are at .500. Last year, 16 of 30 teams finished above .500, and 1 team finished right at .500.
Baseball is a zero sum game. For every win, there’s a loss. MLB, as a whole, finishes .500 every year.
Crede’s back problems are why the Twins have held onto Brian Buscher, and it was last year around the All Star break that Crede’s back last gave out on him.
If history repeats itself (with Crede’s back), we may finally get to see Brian Buscher play 3rd base for more than one game every couple weeks. When he played on a consistent basis last year, Buscher got better and better.
Nobody’s claiming that Buscher is going to be the next Joe Crede, but I’m certain that Buscher is much better than what we’ve seen in his occasional cameos this year.
“Then why didn’t Bill Smith have the courage of his convictions, and bring Everett back for another year, rather than handing Nick Punto $8M and committing to him at short?”
because it’s all about educated guesses and rolls of the dice.
