Twins make Kevin Mulvey their No. 12 pitcher
Posted on July 15th, 2009 – 12:38 PMBy La Velle
The Twins have selected the contract of righthander Kevin Mulvey from Class AAA Rochester and have optioned catcher Jose Morales to Rochester.
Mulvey was 3-6 with a 3.93 ERA in 17 starts with the Red Wings. He lost his last start on July 9 against Syracuse but held the Chiefs to one run over eight innings on seven hits and a walk.
That was an example of how strong some of his outings have been. But Mulvey has struggled to be consistent all season. He gave up five earned runs in two separate outings before he faced Syracuse. He threw a complete game shutout on June 11 but was knocked out on 3.2 innings after that.
Mulvey is one of four players the Twins received for Johan Santana before the 2008 season and is projected to be a mid-to-back of the rotation starter.
The Twins have gone the last month with a 11-man pitching staff. Twins manager Ron Gardenhire said part of the reason was that no one has stepped up from the minors to deserve a call up. If that’s not enough motivation to go hard after a reliever from another organization, I don’t know what is. The Twins have shown interest in Matt Capps and John Grabow from Pittsburgh and have called Toronto about their relievers (Scott Downs? Jason Frasor? Brandon League?) Where’s the follow-through?
Morales finishes his third stint with the Twins this season. He’s been up primarily as insurance on the days Joe Mauer and Mike Redmond are the lineup. It’s too bad the Twins couldn’t work his bat into the lineup a little more. The switch-hitting Morales batted .343 in 32 games, but it’s become obvious that it’s a delicate situation with Morales and Redmond on the same roster.
Redmond is respected in the clubhouse, is more familiar with the staff and has better catching skills than Morales. I’m sure that’s a big reason why Redmond got the nod on the days Mauer DH’d. You also got the sense that Gardenhire didn’t want to touch a nerve with the veteran. Redmond is batting .236 and is at his best when he shoots the ball through the hole on the right side of the infield when there’s a runner on first.
Experience vs a young hitter. The numbers scream for Morales but you can’t measure what it means to have a savvy guy on the bench who’s popular in the clubhouse.
Morales was originally a second baseman but couldn’t cut it and was moved to catcher. He still takes grounders and second, and sometimes at third, but would have been used in the field only if the Twins were in an emergency situation. If he could still play in the field I’m sure it would be easier to keep him.
My guess is that we haven’t seen the last of Morales. They way the ball finds Redmond, the Twins probably will have to recall Morales before the season is over.
276 Responses to "Twins make Kevin Mulvey their No. 12 pitcher"
Yay for Mulvey. I’m intrigued to see how the second-to-last piece of the Santana deal does in the majors.
Too bad for Morales though.
I would have let go of Redmond or Buscher here to be honest, especially considering if somebody got hurt, we could bring up Valencia who couldn’t be much worse than Buscher. And Morales is just so much better than Red Dog at this point it’s ridiculous.
Very surprised that Buscher wasn’t the one to go.
I am sure this is excatly the move that Mauer and Morneau were looking for. I am getting so fed up with this front office. The next thing is this and the Casilla move are just like trades…. Ughhhhhh
I agree I’m not sure what else Morales has to do to prove himself. I like Redmond but honestly he isn’t as big of an asset as he used to be.
I’m ok with who was called up, I think keeping Redmond makes no sense at all, at least from what you can see on the field.
I also don’t get what Buscher brings to this roster, but whatever. None of this nibbling at the edges matters unless the starting pitchers turn some mythical corner or they fix 2B (either with Casilla or something else).
Red isn’t what he once was, but he can still hold down the fort as back up catcher, Morales isn’t gonna get better at calling the games behind the plate pinch hitting once a week, he’ll get four or five starts a week in AAA and next year he can succeed Red.
I am sure Redmond will finish out ther year as a Twin…You don”t cut him now in midseason.
Plenty of time for trades. See how Casilla responds or doesn”t.
Then two weeks to audition or make the moove.
We need a plug with Mulvey.. he may be auditioning also for someone.
Win Twins!
Greg, if you are trying to win, why don’t you cut Redmond? Is he has good as Morales in your mind? He cannot hit, and can no longer throw.
mike wants wins -
Redmond may call a MUCH better game than Morales. Catcher has GOT to be a tough position to evaluate. Sure, Morales is better at the plate, but what about behind it?
“More details to come…”
Len 3 are you teasing us with possible trade news?
First off: small potatoes; Mulvey is a middle innings guy. That being said, his peripherals are pretty good. Lots of GBs (51%), decent strikeouts (but too many BBs), some poor luck (.337 BABIP) even with his average numbers. All in all, the Twins brought the right pitcher up.
At least it wasn’t Crain… I think my head would have exploded if they brought that deadwood, batting practice, puss-arming, straight ball, homerun-serving, launching pad of an exuse for major league relief back to the team.
Morales will get his chance. I do buy that Red is an asset in the clubhouse despite his struggles at the plate. Backup catcher rarely makes or breaks a season.
Morales gone but Buscher stays?
Terrible. That’s all I’ll say.
As for Mulvey, I think this is a tip off that Slowey isn’t ready to go, right?
I’m right with Tom at 12:45.
Boy, nothing like letting one of your best options off the bench be sent down AGAIN in favor of someone like Buscher.
This front office has become a bigger joke than that of the Timberwolves.
Could mean an impending trade… I don’t know why, but i doubt it. More details may be more along the lines of 40 man roster news, or the trickle down affect in the minor leagues… Or more quotes from someone to explain the move a little…
Or, maybe it could signal an impending trade. 
you don’t send bucher down because if your going to be down a position player you need flexibility on your roster, you hold onto buscher because he can play multiple positions and morales can’t. morales can hit, but he still lacks defensively, would i had preferred they keep morales and just release redmond, probably, but the twins have to much class to do that to a guy like him
In case anyone was curious, Morales had just 14 at-bats in June and July. He ended up 4-for-14.
It’s almost as if the Twins are scared to get better…
I am sure this is excatly the move that Mauer and Morneau were looking for.
If only trade were as easy to complete as callups. I can see the call now:
“Hello, Pirates GM? Hi, this is Bill Smith. Yep, with the Twins. Well, I’m calling because the fans here have me on a very strict deadline to fix this team and they’ll only accept Freddy Sanchez. Yep, I know he’s a big name…but you are looking to deal him right? Good good.
Well, I’d love to have him in a Twins uniform by the end of the day so the fans will finally approve of me as a GM. What do I have to offer? Well, since we’re going to have a new second baseman…how about you can have Casilla. No? Not enough?
Well, everybody here hates this Nick Punto fellow…I suppose I can throw him in. Why are you laughing?
Listen, I don’t have time to actually negotiate anything. Just send over Sanchez and I’ll get back to you when I come up with- Hello? Hello!? AH HECK!”
“you hold onto buscher because he can play multiple positions”
I wouldn’t say he can “play” multiple positions. It’s more accurate to say Gardy has played him at multiple positions (two).
This is another stupid move designed to cover up the front office’s completely ineffective offseason. You send down the most deserving player at AAA to make room for a mediocre AAA pitcher on the MLB roster? Why? Because Mike Redmond is here? Because Mulvey was part of a trade for Johan, a pitcher that simply wanted out, that we had no chance to retain and were lucky to get ANYTHING for???
Here’s a thought: Tell Mike Redmond it’s time to retire and give him a coaching job somewhere in the organization. Hell, give him Gardy’s job if it means getting him off the field. But to send down Morales, a guy that CLEARLY belongs at this level??? What nonsense.
There are probably a half-dozen teams that would love to have Morales catching for them right now. Why not explore trade options instead of burning out yet another talented player by continually banishing him to the hopeless hell-hole that is AAA minor league baseball???
Stupid move, Billy/Gardy. You both should be looking for jobs elsewhere with your “management” decisions this season.
Morales gone but Buscher stays?
Morales can’t play 3B or 1B.
Also, inb4 “Neither can Buscher”.
Hahahahahah
There it is our big mid season move. That coupled along with recalling Alexi Cassila. We are on our way now. Watch out Central Division.
Lets face it, we are talking about a backup catcher spot here. What do you need most in a backup catcher? Defense. Now I agree that Redmond’s arm isn’t very good, but neither is Morales’s. Redmond has more experience calling games and does a good job with that. Morales needs to catch more regularly in AAA and I believe he is being groomed as the backup for next season. Redmond’s bat isn’t great but he has proven to be able to pick up that right field single in clutch spots at times.
OB, I agree this is just small potatoes stuff. Backup catcher and middle inning reliever.
Hopefully, the Twins make that “big trade” that Gardy hinted he is waiting for.
Maybe they called those two up to showcase them for trades later this week.
I have long been a fan of Tallet from Toronto, even though he struggled a bit as a starter this year. I’d like to see that trade happen.
In all of LaLa’s ranting, a kernel of truth: Morales as part of a trade. His value will likely never be higher.
I think Morales has proved himself in more ways then one when it comes to playing in the majors. I can think of a different person that should have been sent back to Rochester instead of Jose.
Now who’s going to kill the White Sox when they are back in a couple weeks?
agree with twinsfiend exactly, morales has a much superior bat, but is probably much worse defensively, and when it comes to the back up catcher you need to count on there defense.
What is the official word on Gambino? Why don’t they like him?
Why don’t they like Slama?
Could we please see some reporting on this?
I think Jason finally hit the nail on the head, the Twins are afraid to get better. They literally tremble in fear of being good, quake in their boots at the thought of improvement, convulse violently when presented with options at getting better.
Jason is a dumb butt.
Morales can’t play defense. Its that plain and simple.
I must be blind because i’ve yet to see these superior defensive skills that Redmond has over Morales.
Given that they have a catcher who they want to DH at least once a week and probably should more often then that, it would have been very nice to find a way to keep Morales on the roster. If they would truly committ to Punto being the utility guy, they could stand to part with Buscher. Punto could take the 1-2 starts a week at 3rd when Crede can’t go, and another 1 per week at SS and 2B. Gardy could keep his guy in the line-up 3-4 days a week, ‘picking it’ all over the place and Morales could slide in at 2B in an emergency (or Cuddyer for that matter).
I’ve resisted screaming for Bill Smith’s head like some, because I think he was handed a raw deal by Terry Ryan with Santana, and the Young trade was a reasonable gamble that didn’t work. But he clearly suffers from the same extreme reluctance to pull the trigger on trades that Terry Ryan did. I don’t believe for one second that the Pohlads are really the issue here. We have the money. And we have a few prospects we can reasonably part with. Either go after a large contract where you don’t have to give much up, or be willing to part with some prospects. But do SOMETHING. They always say you don’t make a move just to make a move. But I don’t think that’s always true. Soemtimes you need to make a move to show the guys currently on the roster that you really to give a darn whether they make the play-offs or not, and don’t spend your entire time focused on 2013. If the Twins continue to stay within striking distance and do nothing, I believe thier chancs of signing Mauer to an extenstion this offseason will be signifanctly damaged. And they simply cannot go into Target Field with him playing out the string. Talk about a cloud hanging over your new stadium.
Well said fiend.
As for Morales v Buscher over the past month:
BA: .286 v .273
OBP: .286 v .429
SLG: .286 v .409
And, lastly, Buscher is not garbage in the field. Subpar range at 3B, but errors not a problem.
Well said fiend.
As for Morales v Buscher over the past month:
BA: .286 v .273
OBP: .286 v .429
SLG: .357 v .409
And, lastly, Buscher is not garbage in the field. Subpar range at 3B, but errors not a problem.
The Twins needed a 12th pitcher. That’s why Mulvey’s up. In no way does should the FO be excoriated for minor roster adjustments. If they don’t make a major move before the deadline, though, I’ll lead the charge.
exactly, BC.
This move irritates me more than it excites me. Like Seth said, there has to be more to it.
Send down our one promising bench bat in place of a pitcher who has an ERA of nearly 4.00 at AAA????
I think this move makes us worse off, even if we do get to add that coveted 12th pitcher.
“you hold onto buscher because he can play multiple positions and morales can’t” … great, now we have 3 players to play 3B (Crede/Punto/Buscher) and 1B (Morneau/Cuddyer/Buscher). The Twins do not need another guy who can be the third guy at either position, they need a guy who can come off the bench and give them a good AB - which is what Morales has been doing.
clutterheart: Gabino’s peripherals are pretty ugly. I linked the stats in JoeC’s blog if you want to look at them.
nice take, howeda.
But I don’t see a potential trade as a “move just to make a move”.
We’re 4.0 GB and subpar at a handful of positions. We need a move to make us better, period.
What this latest transaction does is leave us more thin than ever on the bench. I would love to see a veteran right-handed bat to come in and replace Buscher. The Casilla for Tolbert move made sense; this one does not.
What player would play worse if Remond wasn’t in the clubhouse? How does his clubhouse presence manifest itself in play on the field?
What is the ERA of the pitchers with Red vs Morales?
What does Red do that Morales can’t, on the field (or off, that manifests itself on the field)?
Again, not really all that important. The backup catcher will not determine the fate of this season.
As for getting lots of time in AAA behind the plate, we already know that won’t happen, based on what happened last time they sent him down. There is another catcher down there already.
Again, we are arguing about something that is nibbling at the edges here.
I take issue with some of La Velle’s defense of Ron Gardenhire on the Morales / Redmond thing, particularly this made-for-PR line:
“Experience vs a young hitter. The numbers scream for Morales but you can’t measure what it means to have a savvy guy on the bench who’s popular in the clubhouse.”
Perhaps La Velle can’t measure it, but I’ll measure it this way: 45-44, 4.0 GB. If status quo was working, I wouldn’t complain about not promoting Morales or only giving him 14 at-bats in the last two months.
But that’s not what we have here. So I’m starting to really not care how “delicate” the situation is, we need to make a run already and start playing like a playoff team. And we really need help in the weak spots of the lineup, which is precisely what Morales could have given us.
I’ll just put out the statement for the FO…
“This and Casilla is just like making a trade.”
I also find the timing of this odd. After managing to go a month with 11 pitchers, the time we have to go to 12 is RIGHT AFTER a 4 day All-Star break? Couldn’t they at least have waited 5-6 days. It’s not like the bullpen is going to get taxed right away. But with as often as Morales was playing (1 start in a month) I guess it doesn’t matter.
And let me cut in front of the person who’s going to come back with “why are we making a big stink about Redmond’s spot when he only plays once a week?”
This is true, but the weak spots in our lineup are a nightly reality. That’s the part where Morales could make us better, whether through the occasional DH or as a key pinch hitter.
Jason -
What about this line?
“Redmond is respected in the clubhouse, is more familiar with the staff and has better catching skills than Morales.”
Looks like a good reason to keep Redmond around, no?
right on for Lala72. Redmond has absolutely no bat speed . there will be no big trade because the twins will not pay for a big time player.
I’m popular and savvy how do i get a spot on the Twins bench? Dont tell me i need to be a good player either.
Good riddance to Redmond after the season’s over. Popular clubhouse guy? Who cares? Personally, I think the excuses he makes for the team get a little sickening after a while. Him and Cuddyer seem to be the “Twins way” patrol.
BC of ND -
You need to have some sort of actual baseball ability. That would probably help.
Mulvey AND Casilla in one week, look out Yankees. WE’RE COMIN WE’RE COMIN.
No.
What evidence is there that this respect has led to players playing better, pitchers or others?
tell you what, tell me which player will play worse if they cut Redmond.
“Popular clubhouse guy? Who cares? ”
Probably the other 24 guys in the clubhouse. Plus the manager and other coaches.
I’m a Redmond supporter, but if moves are being impacted by how the backup catcher feels about the presence of a .343 switch-hitter on the roster who plays the same position, then Redmond’s presence may not all be on the positive side of the ledger.
But Redmond’s got the contract, as well. There was no way Redmond was leaving the club mid-season. The real question is Buscher vs. Morales.
Pete D-
After reading the Jim Souhan Mauer article, I think some in the clubhouse would “respect” the team a lot more if they erred on the side of putting the most talent on the field. As for “respect in the clubhouse”, that only goes so far for me, especially when the guy who apparently commands the respect is a once-a-week .230 singles hitter with no speed. As for this claim that Redmond’s defensive skills are superior to Morales’, that’s a convenient assumption by those who endorse or defend this roster move, but I think we all know the reality is Morales would be every bit as serviceable as a back-up catcher, given how little time our back-up catcher sees the field. Where he would undoubtedly help is in our lineup, giving us good at-bats–something badly needed from hitters 7-9.
It’s rather amusing to watch fans debate clubhouse atmosphere. One can have an opinion but in no way can back it with facts.
After watching last night’s All Star coverage on Fox and ESPN, my guess is President Obama would also be a popular clubhouse guy.
Should we give him a roster spot?
mike wants wins -
“tell you what, tell me which player will play worse if they cut Redmond.”
Perhaps the entire pitching staff?
A major league 2B is what is needed followed closely by a set up man. Everything else is trivial.
Pete D I wouldn’t need much obviously and i’m not opposed to walking around naked either.
if any of you who are ripping the twins up and down because of this and are saying that because of this the twins honestly don’t want to get better, truly think that this move will cost us the division, you are more delusional then i previously thought
d-roy, I was the one who suggested the Twins were “scared to get better” and I obviously meant it in jest.
Although it clearly is not true, one could surmise such a theory considering they apparently are going to limit Harris’ playing time in favor of Punto and are sending Morales to the minors, eliminating the one true bench threat we had.
Twins FO is pathetic it’s getting very trying being a fan i am not going to go to anymore games and spend the money until they improve the product, i gurantee mauer leaves they won’t spend more money my guess is they will trade him in the offseason
Gardy should be held accountable for the Redmond and Buscher over the Morales decision…
Some people’s goals are to contend for a division, and some people’s goals are to contend for a World Series.
Jason -
It’s also convenient to just disregard the opinions of baseball people because you can’t look past offensive statistics.
Morales is a 2B that was moved to catcher. Redmond has 12 seasons of MLB experience behind the plate. Is it really that big of a stretch to assume that Redmond might actually be better at catching a game than Morales?
If a backup catcher isn’t that important
then why did the Twins re sign Redmond in the first place, why not just go with a cheaper option?
Pete, do you have any statistical evidence the pitchers are better with Redmond? If not, then no effect exists, because if you can’t measure the outcome, it isn’ there.
Because I have plenty of statistical evidence that Morales is a better hitter.
We’re not going to agree here, Pete D.
You’re right, I won’t look past offensive statistics just like I won’t look past our 45-44 record and our horrendous performance 7-9 in the lineup and the offensive statistics of those who sit on our bench.
I think we’re all very aware that being a veteran of the game brings an intangible value to a team which statistics cannot measure, but we’re also smart enough to see that in this case we can’t afford eat up valuable roster spots when portions of our lineup and bench are on life support.
Put another way, if the Twins could afford to bring in a right-handed power hitter to replace Buscher and a true MLB second baseman, then I think we’d all be just fine with keeping Red Dog around, a likeable guy to be sure. As it is, keeping him here to the detriment of a clearly more versatile catcher–both with his bat and legs–is a recipe for a .500 team.
From BA on Mulvey, the Twins #8 prospect. I’ll skip over the obvious parts…
At his best, Mulvey competes hard with pitchabilitiy and above-average stuff. His fastball can reach 94 mph, though it usually sits at 87-91 with sink. He can vary his plus slider, giving it more tilt and bite or shortening it up to almost a cutter. He throws his curveball and changeup for strikes and has good mound savvy. Mulvey rarely had his best velocity, life or command last season, and his pitches generally were less sharp than they had been when he was a Met. Twins officials theorize the pressure of the trade and a desire to get to the majors prompted him to go for strikeouts, leading to less efficiency, deeper pitch counts and some overthrowing that sapped his stuff. He’s not as good fielding his position or holding runners as he needs to be. Mulvey and Humber will compete for a job as a middle reliever/spot starter during spring training. Mulvey projects as a #4 starter, but Minnesota needs him more in the bullpen in the short term.
btw, most people that have analyzed the situation believe catcher ERA does not exist, it’s the pitchers, not the catcher….
Is it really that big of a stretch to assume that Redmond might actually be better at catching a game than Morales?
ok. Let’s assume that is the case. To test that hypothesis, let’s look at the Twins’ pitching staff Opponent OPS when Redmond catches vs. when Morales catches. If Redmond is better at “catching a game, the pitching staff should allow a lower OPS when he is catching vs. when Morales is catching. Makes sense? Here is the data:
Opponents OPS for Twins’ stuff when the following are catching:
Mauer: .734
Morales: .757
Redmond: .769
ok. Another test. CS%
Mauer: 30%
Morales: 38%
Redmond: 17%
I think that “Redmond is a better catcher than Morales” is an urban legend. He is a worse catcher and a worse hitter…
BC,
When the Twins re-signed Redmond, he was hitting over .300 and at times was used in the No. 3 spot in our lineup.
Times have changed.
I’d imagine Mulvey out of the pen should sit low to mid 90’s with that fastball. Similar to Keppel is what I’d imagine.
Asset in the clubhouse? That’s complete garbage.
When does someone in the local media catch on to this sham? When the front office calls someone “good in the clubhouse” it means their performance isn’t good enough to be used as rationale for being on the team.
You have 3 of the top 6-8 players in the American League and you are a .500 team. This team needs TALENT and PRODUCTION not minor league bullpen help and good clubhouse guys.
Some thoughts:
Obviously, ‘backup catcher’ doesn’t have as big an impact as does any regular, but…
I agree that Buscher was easily more deserving to be sent down than Morales. That said, if Morales is just going to sit on the bench I’d rather see him down in AAA getting regular at bats and refining his catching skills so he can really be an asset next year when Redmond retires. Too bad he can’t play second, we could sure use someone there.
Good for Mulvey, I just thought Morillo or Delaney would’ve been better for the team.
mww -
Do you have any statistical evidence the pitchers are worse with Redmond?
You know as well as I do that defensive metrics are VERY hard to measure. Probably even more so for catchers than other positions. Morales does have 4 passed balls and 2 errors while playing catcher for 147 innings compared to 2 passed balls and 0 errors in 225 innings for Redmond. Comparing CERA would be a little pointless, considering how few innings each has caught this season.
People in the know - mainly the Twins baseball people - feel that Redmond plays better defense than Morales. Why should we assume otherwise?
Jason i agree with you i was just pointing out that the backup catcher position has greater value then others think it does. Especialy when your backing up a 2.5 time batting champion.
What about this?
Toronto - you can have anyone on our current roster except for the following players: Mauer, Morneau , Span, Blackburn, Nathan. Anyone else you want - (pick two) and then pick 2 -3 minor leaguers (no one there is off limits) and ship us Halliday. Please
if Morales is just going to sit on the bench I’d rather see him down in AAA getting regular at bats and refining his catching skills
If he was getting 80% of the catching in AAA, that argument might stand. The reality is that this year in Rochester Morales caught 14 games, while used as a DH in 16 and sat in 8. So he is catching 37% of the Rochester games… Not good.
On a related note… What about pursuing Marco Scuttero in Toronto? The guy can play middle infield, bat at the top of the order and score runs. Plus, he is only making like 1.4 mil/year and is a free agent next year. Much better option than Sanchez in from the Pirates.
Ok one more thought. If we are looking for more offense, why not try a combination of Kubel/Morales at DH/LF??? I have no idea if he could do it, but it would eliminate one of the black holes from the bottom of the lineup and give us a solid hitter in the 2 hole. Thoughts???
Span CF
Morales DH/LF
Mauer C
Morneau 1B
Cuddy RF
Kubel DH/LF
Harris SS
Crede 3B
Casilla/Punto 2B
i think we should all have a little more faith in a manager with the 4th highest winning percentage among current MLB managers.
not to mention he has accomplished this with very little talent of which to speak, especially pre-2006.
bring on the “how many world series rings has he won?!?!” …so i can laugh.
thank you
People in the know - mainly the Twins baseball people - feel that Redmond plays better defense than Morales. Why should we assume otherwise?
Because the same people think that Punto is an exceptional fielder. Read Gardy’s comments on the subject on Sid’s last column…
if morales isn’t good enough to catch at the AAA level, what does that tell you?
“People in the know”
These are the same people who traded Johan Santana for Carlos Gomez and Kevin Mulvey.
These are also the same people who traded Matt Garza and Jason Bartlett for Delmon Young and Brendan Harris.
These are also the same people who inked Nick Punto to a 2-year, $8.5 million deal.
I’m certainly not claiming to be smarter than Ron Gardenhire or Bill Smith when it comes to baseball, but to suggest that this move must be supported because it was made by “people in the know” is a bit to shallow for me.
thrylos98 -
I think that “Redmond is a better catcher than Morales” is an urban legend. He is a worse catcher and a worse hitter…
You are using a pretty limited sample size. Morales has started 15 games at catcher this year, Redmond 27.
Jake,
My thoughts are it’s kind of a moot point at the moment because as of today Morales is no longer on the 25-man roster.
Kubel is an albatross in LF and Morales would likely be worse. That’s my thoughts Jake.
//got submitted early by mistake…//
but…
1. Every roster spot is important to Wins and Losses. MLB teams only have 25 players at a time. Each player will either contribute to wins, contribute to losses, or sit there and occupy a space without doing either, in which case you’re playing with a 24 man roster, which has it’s own set of consequences. Bottom line: every player is important, right down to the last man on the bench and the last man in the bullpen. They will have some impact on the season, and one of the reasons teams like Boston, NY etc are able to win consistently is, in addition to paying for front line starters, they are able to outspend teams like the Twins on the bench and in the bullpen.
2. A backup catcher is even more important than, say, a backup middle infielder, because catching is incredibly important to a team in many ways, and because a backup catcher will play 1 or 2 times a week, guaranteed, whereas a backup at any other position might not see that much playing time in two months. Mauer can’t catch every day…ergo the backup catcher is going to get regular playing time.
All of that tells me this decision IS important–doubly so because the Twins regularly use their primary catcher as a DH when he’s not catching, meaning they’ll have TWO catchers in the lineup many days–and I cannot for the life of me figure out why the Twins would choose to keep an aging, declining option over a young and hopefully improving one.
Or, for that matter, find a way to call up another pitcher (which was inevitable) without losing Morales OR Red off the 25 man.
why should we assume otherwise?
…because “people in the know” in the twins organization haven’t seen enough or understand baseball as well as star trib bloggers. duh.
“You are using a pretty limited sample size. Morales has started 15 games at catcher this year, Redmond 27.”
And we have just 73 games left in the season. So thrylos’ sample size works for me. I apologize if I’m not going to factor Redmond’s 2003 World Championship season statistics into the equation.
I missed that column Thry, thanks. He says, “Nicky can hit too.” So I would say Redmond with 12 years MLB experience and .290 lifetime BA should feel pretty safe.
Speaking of small sample sizes… How many PAs does Morales have?
I’m so sick of hearing about “clubhouse guys”. Is that the new way of saying he stinks as a player but we don’t have the nerve to cut him? I’d like to see more “field guys” and “batters box guys” and fewer “clubhouse guys”. How many do we need anyway?
Ugh, are we trying to win the World Series of Mr. Congeniality?
I’m tired of Punto, Redmond, and Cuddyer scraping by on their clubhouse guy persona, who cares…I want to see the Twins win!
jason, learn the lingo. “mute” point and fake “hussle”
CS% at THT has 4.8% for Red and 7.1% for Morales. I think they negate the pickoffs the count as a CS.
You need clubhouse guys. I’m glad the Twins are a classy enough organization that they would allow a fan favorite and respected player the year to finsih up rathern then throwing him away mid-season. Thats classy.
All you people saying we should just toss Red Dog out because you “know” he sucks are classless and should quit pretending you are Twins fans and go root for the Yankees.
I’ll give you Punto and Red kI, but Cuddy has performed.
I think that we’re seeing the beginning of the end of this Twins era. Both Ms will be gone and we’ll end up with Cleveland again.
It may be a moot point, but we talk about trades that aren’t going to happen every day also. Everyone wants to improve the lineup, but one thing to remember is that we may have to sacrifice defense for offense in order to do that. Kubel in LF is not much different than Delmon in my opinion. It probably won’t happen, but Morales hitting 2 as the DH would give Mauer and Morneau another high avg/high OBP guy to bat in.
and how can Morales get better at catching when all he ever does is pinch hit in the bottom of the 9th with 2 outs. Seriously. I hope this kid gets a chance somewhere because he obviously has some talent.
I’ve got a trade suggestion. How about we trade Deolis Guerra, Kevin Mulvey, Carlos Gomez and Philip Humber to the Blue Jays for Roy Halliday?
Opponents OPS for Twins’ stuff when the following are catching:
Mauer: .734
Morales: .757
Redmond: .769
ok. Another test. CS%
Mauer: 30%
Morales: 38%
Redmond: 17%
I think that “Redmond is a better catcher than Morales” is an urban legend. He is a worse catcher and a worse hitter…
According to your stats, Morales is a better catcher than Mauer.
Behold the power of small sample sizes.
I nominate Puckstopper1 at 2:33 for post of the day.
How about DY, a middle infielder and Morales for Yunel Escobar.
It’s hard to compare “Opponents OPS” for catchers. I can only see it being valid if each catcher caught against the exact same line-up.
Lets say Redmond started at catcher when facing Boston, New York, and Detroit. Morales starts against Oakland, Cleveland, and Pittsburgh (lets say because Gardy doesn’t trust a rookie in big games). Who is most likely to have the higher “opponent OPS ?”
How about DY, a middle infielder and Morales for Yunel Escobar.
And Escobar will rot on the bench as long as Punto is on the team with Gardy as the manager…
OB,
Kubel is actually a pretty decent outfielder. He generally takes good paths to the ball, covers way more ground than you might expect and he has a better arm than Span.
“How about DY, a middle infielder and Morales for Yunel Escobar.
And Escobar will rot on the bench as long as Punto is on the team with Gardy as the manager…”
not if LNP IS the middle infielder in the deal!!!
thrylos-
I would worry more about Harris rotting on the bench if that trade happened. If the front office makes a move like that they will expect Escobar to play, but we all know Gardy doesn’t like Harris at 2B. So, unless Escobar can play 2B I’d be more worried about Harris, IMO
Let’s slow down a little.
I like Morales also but some folks are making him sound like he is the catching version of Roberto Alomar(he has his swing,stance) etc..
Morales over Redmond or vice versa aint gonna make or break the season.
Its time for the GM to do something. The manager, catcher and 1st Basemen will let their feelings be known like Torri Hunter did.
I like the “less Bill Smith” attitude, but Fire swayed my opinion.
I agree with everything you said ES16 except his speed (range like Cuddyer). If Kubel didn’t tear that knee up he’d be good in the OF.
Because Toronto would never, ever, ever bite on that?
You all forget that the trade deadline is still over 2 weeks away. Don’t bash the Twins until the trade deadline comes, if we don’t make a move that is…
Jeez, I hope Gardy reads these blogs, I’m sure he would appreciate all the free advice from all the professional baseball people…
Sorry my late comment is re: that Halladay trade proposition
Red dog’s ability to work with the pitchers gave him the edge, especially with 3/5th’s of the rotation struggling right now it was smarter to keep Red. Of course Morales is a better hitter but most likely we’ll see Morales again. At worst he’s our backup next season and let’s be honest guys backup C is the least of our problems. We need a 2B and a RP we all know that.
“Morales over Redmond or vice versa aint gonna make or break the season.”
Like I said, Houston, who are back-up catcher is, to me, is not the issue here. The issue is our lineup has portions of it on life support and our bench is horrendous. That will make or break the season, I believe.
Short memory, eh PB?
I don’t see why they can’t cut Redmond but make him some kind of a coach. Then he can still have the bench(((presence))) and can walk around in the clubhouse naked. The Twins keep Morales up. Everyone wins.
Nobody is going to cut in front of you to make a commentJason because nobody cares to.You are a legend in your own mind!
Yeah, dang work getting in the way of my Twins speculation.
Jason- I agree. The holes in the everyday lineup are the main concern.
Indeed.
Maybe this has been mentioned as I was trying to skim the posts and might have missed it, but when Morales has been behind the plate the Twins pitching staff has actually had a lower ERA than with Redmond behind the plate. That coupled with the fact that he has a higher percentage of throwing out runners make it rather difficult to believe that Redmond is better defensively.
None of us are legends, GENO, just here passing time.
But now that you mention it, I am smarter than everyone else
If not mistaken Mulvery is not on the 40 man roster so another move will need to be made.
Boof to the 60 day dl?
Most teams would love a backup catcher that his .250 and has the respect that RedDog has….take it easy on him. Morales hasn’t played enough yet to say he should replace a calloused vet like Redmond…
Man, if this is a ploy to showcase Casilla and Mulvey in an effort to jetison them to Pittsburgh for Freddy Sanchez, then I take back everything I said, haha.
Your’e exactly right PB. Red should be a coach. He stays in the clubhouse which apparently is very good and off the field which would be exceptionally good. He would appear to be a good fit in that role. But to have him in the line up, that won’t cut it.
Given that Morales is currently better on O than Red, someone needs to show he’s better on D, or it’s hard to argue to keep Red. so, there is no onus on Morales’ supporters to prove he’s better or worse on D.
But, I’ve spent way too much time on the backup catcher, its about starting pitching, 2B, SS, LF and DH against lefties…..
Joeiscool12- I thought the Casilla move was a regular “improve the line-up” move but now with Mulvey called up, you’re right. Does make sense. Then again we are talking about Bill Smith and the Twins here, so…..
if you go back to spring training, when they realized mauer wouldn’t start the season healthy, the race was for who the 2nd catcher would be morales or i believe drew butera, butera had the defense and morales had the bat, if you read between the lines a lot of the pitchers were basically saying they preferred butera because they didn’t have much confidence in morales to call a game or even block a ball in the dirt
This will be Redmonds last year behind the Twins plate. Let him finish it out. They might bring Morales back at the end of the year anyways. This also will give Morales more game experience in AAA. Promoting Mulvey, looks like either the Twins or a potential trade partner wants to see what the Mulvey can do in the bigs. Meaning, the Twins might be trading him if another team like him, or the Twins might trade someone else, knowing that Mulvey can step up. But to me it looks more like another team wants to see him in the bigs first before they make a trade with the Twins for him and probably one of our middle infielders, (Casilla most likely the case).
Proof about Morales D is unattainable due to sample size.
Nonetheless, while pERA and CS% have been discussed, consider this one:
WPs and PBs per game:
Red: .439
Morales: .672
That should be considered too.
Count me among those who don’t understand what all the uproar is about. I know a lot of fans are antsy for the FO to do something and I hope they do, but the decision to keep Red Dog is a reasonable one even if a case can be made for Morales.
Yes there are holes in the lineup, but an upgrade at the position of backup catcher isn’t going to fix them. There is no way for us to measure the “clubhouse effect,” but I’m fine with the team’s decision to not upset the players and/or coaches for the sake of an arguably small upgrade.
The Twins only had 38 guys on the 40-man prior to this move. With the addition of Mulvey, there are 39. No other moves need to be made.
“Proof about Morales D is unattainable due to sample size.’
Agreed. I’d add that there is also an issue with sample distribution since Morales has done very little catching of late.
Cuddy plays first, Tolbert plays short, Harris plays third. I would sure have like to see Morales play second for just a week.
Ben -
Unless you take into account that Morales has started only 15 games behind the plate, and Redmond only 27. That’s a pretty small sample size.
For example :
Morales has caught 2 Scott Baker starts, while Redmond 5. When Morales is behind the plate, opponents have a .627 OPS against. When Redmond, it’s .991. However, look at the opponents. Morales caught against an early season Tampa squad, and a Kansas City team. Redmond caught against a hot Toronto team, Boston, Cleveland, and twice against the White Sox. Can we really compare the two?
just like making 2 trades. better than anything on the trade market! cheaper, paying minimum and not trading anyone for them.
that’s how we operate, and have for years. when was the last big mid season trade. even the stewart trade wasn’t looked at as a big trade until after stewart got hot.
10 game road trip, anyone think we’ll still be over .500 when they come back home?
I nominate Puckstopper1 at 2:33 for post of the day.
A post identical to Puckstopper1’s already has been awarded PoD in the recent past.
Puckstopper1 does not win PoD and is ineligible for consideration for a period of 30 minutes.
You missed a “this is just like a trade” Chief.
That means PoD competition is wide open. My entry: We called up Casilla because he can throw the ball to who?
Whoever it is drops the ball and the guy runs to second. Who picks up the ball and throws it to What? What throws it to I Don’t Know. I Don’t Know throws it back to Tomorrow, Triple play. Another guy gets up and hits a long fly ball to Because. Why? I don’t know! He’s on third and I don’t give a darn!
Stewert was most definitely a big trade at the time. Ripped off the Jays too.
You missed a “this is just like a trade” Chief.
I’m waiting for T to let me know if any of these count or not.
Right, when was the last time they made a mid season trade that actually made an impact? generally we get end-of-career guys that ride the pine the remainder of the season.
I’d just like to jump in with my two cents. The catcher isn’t the only one who “calls the game” They are frequently looking into the dugouts getting signs from the coaches.
Hopefully this year kI.
None of this crap matters! This team is weak in the rotation as well as the BP! Phillies get Pedro and they are trying to trade for “Doc”. That sounds like an organization trying to win KNOW. It’s not even like watching the Twins when I watch this group….it’s more like watching the WhiteSox any year but 2005. Our pitching is TERRIBLE and the guys we got in return for trading out 2 best pitchers(Santana/Garza) ALL STINK! I’m done with the Twins and Billy Smith. Furthermore, if he doesn’t bring in a Halliday or Bedard type KNOW then I think that M&M will walk from here frustrated just like Hunter and Santana did 
Chief,
Thanks for having my back.
Speaking of 2B, O-Dog has looked pretty good lately. I have heard rumors that he was more interested in going to either a “major market” or a team with a chance to go to the playoffs.
Either way, its too bad the Twins FO couldn’t have convinced his agent to at least consider coming here.
If I recall, he signed for less money per year than LNP.
His bat in the 2-hole would have solved alot of problems…
thanks Northstar!!!
I meant NOW
Any chance of getting Jason Bartlett back? Gardy always batted him ninth, but he looked good batting second.
Bartlett is hitting .347 with a .393 OBP and a .930 OPS. He has 8 home runs and 19 steals (caught once).
Nice to see Casiila has returned. He has tremendous natural baseball skills. He put up good numbers at Rochester. The question mark is whether he has a head for the game.
Shortstop is a concern. Punto is rangy, but an inconsitent hitter and injury prone. Harris is durable and has more punch, but is plodding. Neither is a good choice. I think Gardy will more often choose Punto in the second half, especially if he shows a little more hitting.
The Twins don’t need 2 reserve catchers. Redmond is a much better all-around player than Morales. That was an easy decision to send Morales down.
Was the comedy intentional or unintentional shazel?
Go Twins!! win KNOW!!
shazel,
I wouldn’t get to worked up over Pedro.
He will be starting his stay with Philly on the 15-day DL…
I’m sure that Philly fan is most accepting of that…
I’m guessing since Bartlett was the team MVP last year, inexeplicably I might add, we aren’t going to get him back. Either the team loves him like the Twins players love Red Dog, or the manager loves him like Gardy loves Punto. I’m not sure who picks the team MVP, but those two examples explain how he won it.
chinmusic: Don’t mention it. I take my arbiter responsiblities veerrrrrry seriously. 
BTW, you are the current leader for PoM as well. Lots of month left, though.
What’s sad is Bunting Twins might actually be Bill Smith.
*vomit* This is a waste of a call-up… when is he going to see action except for in mop-up situations. Couldn’t we just use Young there? Maybe that’s DY’s true calling.
Bunting Twins says:
July 15th, 2009 at 3:54 pm
Any chance of getting Jason Bartlett back?
Only if we are willing to give up Delmon Young for him.
Just curious.
Am I the only one round here that understands the Twins personel decisions are made by people that are better informed than we bloggers? By, in my estimation, a factor of at least a hundred.
Maybe, but when you put all of our heads together we are really, really smart.
PB,
Well said my man, well said.
Paul,
Keen insight like that could land you an intern gig with grandpa sports.
No. I’m not Bill Smith.
I don’t think all the decisions that are made should be considered to be Smith’s. The GM tries to please the field staff if possible.
“Any chance of getting Jason Bartlett back?”
Yes. The Rays have a SS prospect at AAA so Bartlett may be moved soon. I would consider him an upgrade over Punto or Harris, but he is into his arb years and will turn 30 after the season. Not really a long-term solution and not enough of an upgrade to trade for, IMO.
Anyone here think Bartlett even makes the All-star Team if his own manager isn’t the AL manager this year?
Most bloggers are really just “battling our tails off” and “good clubhouse guys” who “can really pick it”…
chin,
Ah, My genius is recognized!
NorthStar,
Have you seen his line?
Fartlett: .347/.393/.536
Miserable!
I think the Twins will want use Redmond’s roster spot next season for younger players. I don’t think he will be back.
Right now, Redmond is the best choice as the back-up. Morales still has problems catching. Morales has hit better, but that’s in very limited play.
Redmond has a history of being able to hit major league pitching. Morales doesn’t have much to prove he’s a bonafide major leaguer. He might be, but no on knows.
Back to MLB, the only way that I see the Twins pulling off any kind of trade that has value would be to do what the Braves FO did this year.
There are teams out there who are struggling due to the economy, and even if they have a chance to win, may shed payroll.
The question is;
Which teams will deal and who will be available?
“Anyone here think Bartlett even makes the All-star Team if his own manager isn’t the AL manager this year?”
Since he was voted in by the PLAYERS, I would say the answer is an unqualified ‘yes.’
Might as well give Redmond a lifetime contract. Obviously his performance on the field doesn’t matter. He plays a great game of cards in the clubhouse and gets laughs in the showers so he stays.
the moral to be learned is that a happy, fun clubhouse with magic tricks and great pals to spend time with is much more important than a world series title!
“Anyone here think Bartlett even makes the All-star Team if his own manager isn’t the AL manager this year?”
Norstar, Bartlett got named by the players vote, not the Managers so yes he would’ve made it even if Maddon wasn’t the AL Manager.
saam beat me to it.
FYI, the manager only gets to name 8 of the players to the team.
It’s not like it was in TK’s day when the manager got to name all of the reserves.
gobble-
Don’t forget about walking around taking BP naked…
Who is a better all-around major league shortstop than Jason Bartlett?
I’ll bet you could name all the better ones on one hand.
Furcal, Rollins, Jeter, Cabrera, Hanley Ramirez?
I’d rather have Bartlett than most of those.
Please don’t tell me Jonny Peralta or JJ Hardy.
Anyone here think Bartlett even makes the All-star Team if his own manager isn’t the AL manager this year?
Anyone here think NorthStar wishes he could retract that post?
Here’s a new trade idea, Adam Kennedy from the A’s to play 2nd base. He is having a solid season and the price should not be to high. Then work on getting Capps or Grabow along with Snell from Pittsburg. Snell is not having a great year but he is pitching well at AAA and has a career winning record with the awful teams he has played on in Pittsburg.
“Since he was voted in by the PLAYERS, I would say the answer is an unqualified ‘yes.’”
I think with his numbers, he was in either way.
But the players’ vote is stupid. They vote for the starter at each position. If their starter is chosen by the fans, the players’ number two vote getter is the backup. This isn’t necessarily the same as their collective #2 choice.
Here’s an example (using 100 votes) for catcher:
Mauer - 99
Redmond - 1 voter who likes to see him naked
Everyone thought that Mauer was best except the Redmond fan. Mauer was chosen by the fans, so #2 Redmond is chosen as the backup. If you asked the other 99 players who their #2 option was, they probably would say Victor Martinez. But they weren’t asked for #2, so the guy who likes Redmond’s balls got him into the all-star game.
Oooo Chief,
jay’s last paragraph just might deserve consideration.
Soooooooooo….does this mean the players might have voted in Bartlett as #1?
Was Cuddy the guy who voted for Redmond in the above example? Did he make something disappear? I’m going to stop right there for fear of having my posts monitored for the rest of my life.
Jay, Love your example, but you can make an argument against any system.
My guess is a certain number of players would vote for someone other than Jeter/MauerPujols because they knew those guys were a shoe-in.
“Here’s a new trade idea, Adam Kennedy from the A’s to play 2nd base.”
Age 33 is old for a middle infielder not using steroids. He could suddenly take a rapid, natural decline.
Did Red vote for himself?
Mulvey will get smoked, you heard it here first.
Any chance Iwamura or Zobrist become available when Iwamura comes off the DL? I’m guessing Zobrist would cost quite a bit to acquire with the year he is having.
Look at backup catchers in the majors,Redmond is one of the best.He would be claimed as soon as he went on waivers by many teams.Morales needs to play every day.The FO are paid well because they are good at what they do,not just some kid whose mommy let’s them play on the computer.
Iwamura won’t be off the DL (assuming he can recover) in time to help the Twins. Zobrist is Punto with a big stick and several years before he becomes a FA, so they would have no reason to trade him.
I would like to see Bartlett return, but I think the chances are next to none.
Gardy will mix and match at shortstop. Punto and Harris. Neither are that bad. For the seventh game of the World Series, I’d probably prefer Punto over Harris. If Nick’s groin was too sore to play that game, I wouldn’t feel bad that Harris was playing.
Bunting Twins, Kennedy would only be a 1/2 year rental and would not cost as much to get as Sanchez plus Sanchez’s $$$ for this year and next.
Good thing we didn’t sign Pudge in the offseason, as some people suggested, because Morales is so amazingly good.
The disturbing thing about Barlett is that once you are in Gardy’s doghouse you stay there to some degree.Watch for movement of Casilla for the same reason.It’s something he learned from TK( the name Big Papa comes to mind)
Thx for the scouting report. Mulvey sounds quite a bit like Matt Guerrier. He’s almost certainly better than Bobby Keppel, Brian Duensing or Sean Henn in the long run and not bad for the 7th guy in the pen, too bad he’s more like the 5th option right now. Keppel will get lit up soon, that’s a guarantee.
I’d love to see Freddy Sanchez but would settle for getting Felipe Lopez and Jon Rauch from Arizona.
For me, keeping Red Dog is an easy choice over Morales. However, I think I would have kept Morales over Buscher. With Casillas back, do they really need that many utility infielders? Like someone said earlier, in an emergency situation, Morales could play in the infield.
Geno is absolutely correct.
Just as well that Morales was sent down when Overrated refuses to play him anyway.
People….
Casilla is your second baseman. Have you given up on him or do you think he can play like it’s 2008? What say you?
Vote NOW!!!!
WJ,
who’s Overrated?
The Twins are clueless when it comes to backup catchers. That’s why more than one of every five (>15%) teams in Major League Baseball has had or currently has a former Twins catcher on its 25-man this season.
Skeptical? Pierzynski, Bowen, Moeller, Valentin, Corky Miller, Ardoin, Damien Miller, Blanco..who am I missing?
And don’t come back with some response about how lousy all these guys are. Give the Twins a little credit instead.
GENO: Who is “Big Papa?”
Casilla is your second baseman. Have you given up on him or do you think he can play like it’s 2008? What say you?
He can, esp. when he is not under the microscope every day and if his mishaps are treated the way others’ are (e.g. Punto) by the field staff.
Or perhaps, bop, this suggests that backup catchers are a dime a dozen.
It is foolish to assume that given 50 more atbats that Reddog would continue to hit just .230, or Morales to hit at a .340 clip. Neither one of them has much power. They both are about .280 hitters at this stage. And then there are the Huge intangibles. I would have made the same move they did.
Hopefully a precurser to a trade. See if Casilla can get it together, if not, pull the trigger on a Sanchez trade. I would push for a BIG trade! Sanchez, Capps, and Grabow for Casilla, Mulvey, and Rene Tosoni/Matt Fox.
Casilla is your second baseman.
I’ve been trying to tell people that since his call up. Alexi does represent THE big move to shore up the middle infield. Forget any trade ideas.
Have you given up on him or do you think he can play like it’s 2008? What say you?
Why would anybody be happy with the Alexi Casilla of 2008?
He posted a .707 OPS in 2008. That’s not Nick Punto-type bad, but it sucks nonetheless.
He hit .340/.417/.520 (.937) in 61 PAs in May 2008.
June: .747 OPS
July: .718 OPS
August: .622 OPS
Sept/Oct: .574 OPS
For his career, he has 768 PAs with a .617 OPS.
He has 703 PAs at the AAA level, with a .703 OPS.
He has 1875 minor league PAs, with a .745 OPS.
Why is everyone convinced the 61 PAs Casilla had in one month represent “the Alexi Casilla of 2008″ and the entire rest of his minor and major league career represent the fluke?
Alexi Casilla has never, ever demonstrated any ability to be a good hitter. Ever.
Now, maybe he’ll be just the spark the Twins need in the 2 hole for the rest of the season.
But there’s no evidence–none, zero, zippo, zilch–to suggest that’s at all likely.
OB, backup catchers may be a dime a dozen, I don’t know. Help me answer the question about why so many “commodity” catchers (8 guys on 31 teams, this year alone, which means representation on about 25% of all teams) come out of the Twin’s system. My bias is to believe the organization can take some credit for this.
(8 guys on 31 teams, this year alone, which means representation on about 25% of all teams) come out of the Twin’s system
Here are the ones you mentioned, where they came from and their history with the Twins:
Pierzynski (Twins - we know this guy)
Bowen, (Twins -total 43 PA with the Twins in the majors as September call up, last in 2004)
Moeller, (Twins, half a season in the majors with Twins - 2000)
Valentin (Twins - 4PA in the majors with the Twins this millennium, last Twins’ season 2002)
Corky Miller (Reds - Twins’ history 12 PA as a Sept. call up in 2005 - single season in Twins’ organization)
Ardoin (Oakland- single Twins’ history 40 AB in 2000)
Damien Miller (Twins. 71 AB for the Twins in 1997, since then elsewhere)
Blanco (Dodgers; a year with the Twins -2004- too many AB due to Mauer injury; .206/.260/.368 career line with the Twins)
so, other than AJP, not many quality Twins’ catchers playing in other teams these days…
The point is still acutely valid, thrylos. Why are these guys holding jobs with other teams? Because the Twins have better options and the teams employing them don’t. The number of PA’s with the Twins doesn’t invalidate anything.
bop,
this is like saying that since Luis Rodriguez, Augie Ojeda or Juan Castro (add Bartlett, Guzman etc and Rivas & Tiffee who will get called up by the Cubs & Phillies in September) have major league jobs this year, the Twins are good in developing middle infielders.
What’s your point, thrylos? Help us out. If every team changed their backup each year, wouldn’t every team have one former backup catcher out there playing on another roster? Why do the Twins have several former backups out there? By the way, this pattern of having an excess of MLB-calibre catchers, albeit mostly backups, has persisted since you were in grade school.
Unless the Twins bring in a stud starting pitcher, this season is over.
The offensive numbers are good enough, the starting pitching is not. The Twins do not have a top of the rotation pitcher. Liriano is living off of his rookie season. He was good when he returned last year until his last couple of starts, when he got shelled.
Liriano’s end of the year, unfortunately, was a portent of this season.
Baker has lost it somewhere and needs to get it back.
Nick Blackburn has been very good, but, defense saved him against the Sox.
Blackburn is not a top of the rotation pitcher, though.
Where is the Twins answer to Cliff Lee, CC Sabathia, Zack Greinke, etc?
So, move on to middle infielders then, thrylos. My conclusion is different regarding middle infield talent. My sense is they are exceptional at developing catching talent. But saying the Twins are “good” at developing middle infielders is probably accurate.
When a number of players aren’t capable of making your roster, but can make someone else’s, that tells most of us something positive about our management team. Of course, thrylos, you will find a way to reach a different conclusion.
“People….
Casilla is your second baseman. Have you given up on him or do you think he can play like it’s 2008? What say you?
Vote NOW!!!!” - La Velle
He can play like it’s 2008! I think he can be even better. Great baseball skills. He needs to mature. Maturity may come with experience. He has the talent to be one of the best players on this team.
I hope Lexi is successful. But, as Chief noted, the evidence is to the contrary.
Bunting Twin, I think your assessment of Casilla matches that of a segment of the Twin’s field staff. I think Gardy might be leaning towards the notion that this guy might be a perennial problem child and that you can’t raise a low baseball IQ. In my view, there are two questions: 1. Does he really have the talent people think he does; and 2. Is he another of the many goofballs that fail despite enormous talent, or will he develop the emotional maturity to make it.
The skepticism is warranted.
will he develop the emotional maturity to make it
Alright…
here is the thing (and be objective) :
How many mental errors does Casilla make?
How many mental errors does Punto make? (that includes sliding into first base)
How many times has Gardy called Casilla’s mental errors this season?
How many times has Gardy called Punto’s mental errors this season?
How many times has Gardy said anything nice about Casilla this season?
How many times has Gardy said anything nice about Punto this season?
I apologize for changing the subject, but:
Yesterday, we played El Segundo HS(CA)in a Legion playoff game.
El Segundo is/was coached by Jonn Stevenson who:
1) Is 75-years-old
2) Has averaged 20 wins per year in his 50 years of high school coaching. (1057 HS wins. Counting Legion games, he has probably averaged 40 wins per year for 50 years.
3) Coached George Brett, Ken Brett and Scott McGregor in high school.
It was difficult to decide what to say to the guy during pre-game and post-game handshakes.
Just saying “what’s new?” didn’t seem appropriate.
Amazing man!
That’s JOHN Stevenson and an unclosed parentheses for me.
John is obviously sharper than I am at 75-years-old.
chief-I just noticed my error in typing.Yes chief,Papi,sorry for living smart arsh!
sane,
(and I am glad that you changed the subject). You are somewhat of a legend of you own as far as high school coaches go, so own it
I met a hall of famer out of the blue on vacation last week, when he, his wife and daughter were looking at a restaurant posted menu the same time my wife and I were looking at it. I was wearing a Twins cap, he was wearing a 2006 Cardinals world series T-shirt. I don’t know how the discussion turned into baseball (it was the women) but his wife said something like “you know, he played ball, back then”. Spent about half an hour with them. Of course baseball made him an me hit it of. I got the point about the Twins beating the Cards in ‘87 through, he educated me a lot about American Legion games (he played with Joe D and Ted Williams). He told me that Babe Ruth once came to those games and signed balls for the players and he still has one of them (but 2 boys who collect memorabilia and does not know who to give it to); I popped up my iphone and showed him that his Cardinals were blanking Milwaukee 3-0. To make a long story short (and yes, I found out that Feller could throw more than 100 mph back then), the conversation ended like this:
“Do you know that in a recent ESPN poll 75% of the responders said that Albert Pujols is the best Cardinal hitter ever?”
It was answered by a head nod…
sane-You are one of the few on this board that has actually baseball experience,let me ask you.Do you think that if Crede has a second half similar to the first half and stays healthy,should we try to resign him?If not,are Valencia or Hughes ready and if you think they are,will we need DY to become a power hitter?
thrylos, you come by your by your belief in the unequal treatment of Punto and Casilla by Gardy honestly. I honestly reach the conclusion that he treats both of them fairly, but certainly differently, as all great leaders in any profession do. You and I observe a small part of the picture. We don’t know the story. There are no spreadsheets that illustrate how a catcher handles pitchers. Contending that OPS against data for a dozen 2009 appearances is relevant is either naive or disingenuous.
Apply the same thoughts to every decision between any two alternatives, like Cuddyer vs. Young, and you will find yourself being partial at times to the one who has yet to develop “emotional maturity.” These are judgments. I don’t trust my own judgment in these matters, because I don’t really have much of a clue. And I certainly don;t trust your judgment, as you know.
The logic that just because someone has a job, they are good at it is baffling. As sports fans, have you never heard of Matt Millen or Kevin McHale as GMs? By your logic, not GM or coach or player should ever be replaced.
“The skepticism is warranted.”
Yes it is.
Casilla may have the natural athleticism, but the jury is definitely out whether he has the mental skills. I am optimistic.
thrylos is correct in that Gardy gives a longer leash to some than others.
thrylos, good story on meeting (I am assuming) Stan Musial?
time to let redmond go and punto too. We aren’t going to win with either of them. Morales should be here any other team in the majors would like to have morales as thier backup catcher.
thrylos,
That list of catchers produced by the Twins organization is very interesting.
Do you, or does anyone know how many players are in the major leagues that were produced by the Twins organization?
If it’s over 25, I would say that the organization is successful at producing major league players.
Mike wants wins…
Just as baffling is the thought that since you haven’t won a Championship that means you are garbage.
Of course there are some idiots who think Dan Marino was a good quarterback, WHAT did he ever win. Just a big loser.
Regards,
I have never once described the Twins as garbage, never once, but thanks for putting words in my mouth.
GENO,
“Do you think that if Crede has a second half similar to the first half and stays healthy,should we try to resign him?If not,are Valencia or Hughes ready and if you think they are,will we need DY to become a power hitter?”
Try to sign Crede?
Yes, but not at ANY cost.
If he wants Target Field ownership rights?
No.
Hughes can’t play 3B in MLB, IMO.
Valencia can play 3B well enough at a minimum price, which may enable the Twins to sign Mauer, and/or upgrade the pitching staff (or elsewhere).
That is how I would do it, while Valencia demonstrates his MLB readiness (or lack thereof).
Gardy should be held accountable for the Redmond and Buscher over the Morales decision…
B.S. (on two levels:))…
At the game level, and field management if you want to hold Gardenhire accountable for who sits and starts, go nuts.
Personnel is Smith’s responsbility and although he most certainly uses the field staff’s input and observations, the decisions are ultimately his.
The weakest link this year has been the starting pitching, by far.
Blackburn has been the only consistant starter.
Liriano & Baker have been basket cases, Liriano more so than Baker.
Slowey has been the most fortunate, maybe injury had something to do with it.
While the bullpen is not great, there IS NOT a bullpen in baseball that can sustain superiority when they have to pitch 4/5/6 innings constantly. In early/mid- June when the starters were consistantly going into the 6/7/8th innings the bullpen was very good. When the starters are going 3/4/5 innings not very good.
At different points of the season, ALL elements of the team have been very good, rarely so far have ALL elements been good at the same time.
Regards,
thrylos - don’t leave us hanging, please, was it indeed Musial?
Segue to this: it is mentioned that Minnesota cannot compete with the Yankees, Red Sox, Cardinals fiscally to consistently field a powerhouse baseball team. New York and Boston I can certainly understand but I see no reason why the Twins cannot become a Saint Louis type franchise cornering the market in their trade area. I’m talking overall results at the gate plus interest in the franchise as a whole. I believe they could sew up interest from not only Minnesota but ALL of the surrounding states if the people really running the franchise went about it correctly.
I would like to see arguments as to why or why not this could be accomplished.
thrylos - don’t leave us hanging, please, was it indeed Musial?
the last sentence should have given it away (the ESPN poll about who the best Cardinals hitter ever was…)
At the game level, and field management if you want to hold Gardenhire accountable for who sits and starts, go nuts.
Personnel is Smith’s responsbility and although he most certainly uses the field staff’s input and observations, the decisions are ultimately his.
not sure that this is the case in many levels… for reference see Souhan’s column last month or so where Gardenhire is quoted to say: “I sent Casilla down”…
[Thrylos98] See my response to your other, similar jab towards Gardenhire on LENIII’s blog
t98: GMs are responsible for personnel decisions. I’m sure most, if not all, look for and consider field management input, but in the end the GM makes the call.
IF that is not the case in Minnesota–and that’s a pretty big IF, IMO–then the organization has larger problems that need to be addressed.
Blame Gardenhire all you want for decisions regarding usage of the 25 man roster.
But put the blame where it belongs for decisions regarding who comprises that 25 man roster. It’s on the GM. He has the responsibility and the authority.
[Thrylos98] Sorry, I responded in JoeC’s blog regarding your “Souhan reference”.
oldguy,
“I would like to see arguments as to why or why not this could be accomplished.”
I’d bet a nickel that the Twins BOD has exactly that as a main part of their mission.
And I’m sure they would welcome any help available.
thrylos98,
Was it Vinegar Bend Mizell or Country Slaughter?
WJ,
both are dead…
Remember when the Twins had a middle infielder whos head wasn’t in the game and he could barely hit his weight? I think his name was Jason Bartlett. Still, I wonder if Casilla will ever turn it around. I’m hesitant to trade him unless the Twins get a 2B whose under contract for a couple years.
both are dead…
My next guess was Rabbit Maranville.
My next guess was Rabbit Maranville
lol
it was Stan the Man (I did not ask him who he was and I did not ask for his autograph, btw.) And he is sharp as a tack and cool (no ego whatsoever and a totally unassuming person) and the whole interaction was just like talking to a guy older than you who has a lot of hands on experience about something you love. His parting words were “see you at the All Star game”; I said “I got tickets for the Dylan concern that date, so probably not”. One thing that he told me (and I agreed with him and discussed body armor and all) is that hitters these days are not as good as they were the old days. (Add the higher pitching mount back then and reach your own conclusions)
And, yes, it was a social situation outside of baseball and it was not an interview-type of thing (like zero pressure), but like a couple of families vacationing at the same place and shooting the bull.
Pretty cool.
prediction: Twins sign Julio Lugo to play SS
lets see: city pays for new ballpark, pays for tickets, watches them on tv. and they get: to watch 2 of the best players to put on a twins uniform wasting their amazing talent on a mediocre team, a bunch of owners who dont care how to team does as long as they make some sort of profit, a gm who would rather sh** his pants than trade for a free-agent (those precious minor leaguers are making one hell of AAA team). i guess FO IS making a good move they have got us hoping for a good team but will never produce it, f that.
Oh i almost forgot we get to watch a shortstop who gets payed 4 million dollars to bat .200 and slide into first base like a frigging moron and get praised by his manager for “busting his tail”.
i feel bad for M&M and dont know why i support an organization that pulls this crap.
i love it how even the writers try to justify the FO’s unwillingness to make moves, i am sure the pohlads give them a hefty sum for explaining how “hard it is to make a move”. its not hard!! you just have to be willing to trade something to get something and put extra money into it! oh but wait, there is no way they can afford it they are a “small market” team. the owners are only the single richest owners in baseball!!! i wonder if the pohlads even like baseball, i hope they sell the team to a billionare who actually cares about producing a good product on the field.
julio lugo? dude you are shooting way too low the twins are trade brendan harris and going for tony pena jr, he is a stud. he and punto can combine for the single lowest batting average for a ss and 2b tandem. their averages combined would be less than mauer’s :).
the pohlads have much better places to spend their 3 billion dollars evidently.
at least lugo is hitting .284
ben,
I’m a little worried about this. I don’t think I’m a sadist, but I kinda enjoy reading your stuff.
You know what ben, that’s one I wish I could take back. Sorry dude.
well atleast ya read it, its a bunch of bull and I am just venting, but watching the twins potential go down the drain is frusterating as hell
come to think of it and looking back at my angry spouts, not only is my english terrible, but damn that was ridiculous, but sometimes it just has to be said.
good luck to the twins in the 2nd half, i will continue to root for them no matter what and probably yell at a combination of billy, nicky, sometimes gardy and most of all the pohlads (i feel bad for your dad, but come on give the twins a little hope and open up your gigantic pocketbooks).
go twins!!!
Morales will benefit more from catching in AAA than riding the bench here. Same goes for Buscher; they should bring up Tolleson or Valencia to spell Crede. Buscher has shown that he simply doesn’t platoon well, but with enough regular playing time he may sharpen both his glove and his bat.
ben,
I try and look at it as the glass is half full. The team has normally been situated well above average this decade standingswise. At the same time keeping enough resources in reserve to ensure the same for the future. It’s pretty hard to win consistantly year in and year out. The Twins market, as the owners see it, will not sustain an effort like the Yank$, Bo$ox, the Chicago$ and the LA$. One thing about businessmen. They got this thing bout making money. It becomes academic. To them losing money is a huge sin. Kinda like you or me trying to pour milk on our cereal and intentionally pouring it all over the table. Hard to do. Seems stupid. Goes against our grain. Try seeing baseball as you would a piece of art or a good song. Find the joy in just witnessing the best players in the world. It’s outa our control.
Sorry if this sounds sorta preachy. But life is too short.
paul,
agreed, carl did not become a multi-billionare because he was a spend thrift, so managing money and crunching numbers is the most important. however, it seems like other teams are willing to actually make the leap and invest in the team (however it is very risky) by spending more up front in hopes that it will pay off in the end (ie going to the playoffs).i feel if the twins dont show that enthusiasum towards winning then they would jepordize losing “Mr. Minnesota” and financially i think that could huge. I did not major in finances, but they can look at the situation two ways, either spend a large sum of money each year (20 mill/yr) to keep him if he even wants to stay or trade him for a bunch of cheap minor leaguers and a few starters and avoid the large economic hit to endure by signing mauer. This would cause a huge backlash by all of minnesota and would dramatically reduce ticket sales, but the question is by how much, will the die hards still pay to go to games, most likely, but the casual fan maybe not. Financially it could be the better decision, but then again, they might have to recruit body guards from the secret service to protect anyone responsible for losing mauer, which could be costly. So the team saves lots of money. Signing him would assure the ticket sales, if they find lightning in a bottle and make it to the playoffs yeah for them, they make more in ticket and merchandise sales. I wonder how much a team makes for in terms of extra profit for making it to the playoffs. Super long winded, and i probably have jumped around for several hundred words but you get the idea. assured if they do let mauer go, i will fill the entire blog with the worst possible language and insults that come to me.
oh and what do you really do with 3.1 billion? you would think after 200-300 million there would be nothing else to buy, maybe a country or something.
on another note the profit sharing is also almost an inhibitor to increasing your spending. not sure if this is correct, but dont you lose that profit sharing spend over x dollars. If that is the case if the twins buy a player for say 10 mill and that puts them over the line for profit sharing, they lose the extra money they are getting for profit sharing so a 10 million dollar player just became a 15 million dollar player due to the profit sharing. dont know, enlighten me if you actually have an understanding as opposed to my ignorance.
ben,
I don’t know how MLB runs their profit sharing. But I believe the team understands Joe’s value. Just like you stated. I’m sure they know that to NOT resign him would be more costly than resigning him.
but thats the thing i am not sure they are taking seriously, just by giving mauer 20mill/yr wont get him signed necessarily. having a quality team behind him will probably be more important than the actual contract size (look at morneau’s comments). if they balk this summer and after the season’s end, i think mauer walks (obviously after his ‘10 season) or asks for a trade. hell if i was in that position i probably wouldn’t stay, who wants to be a star on a crappy team?
Joe Mauer will become the Twins third baseman (at some point)that is if they can sign him to a new contract. I don’t believe ha can catch his whole career and stay healthy.
[…] also spoke with Smith about today’s roster move, which La Velle discussed earlier. The Twins promoted RHP Kevin Mulvey to the big leagues and sent C Jose Morales back to Class AAA […]
Red Man is what he is, an efficient backup catcher who is well respected in the clubhouse and who is in his last year. Trade Morales and a good prospect and Young (who no one wants) for an arm from Pittsburgh, Toronto or Arizona. Chris Coste could be acquired for our backup catcher next season. Ben Revere will get a September 2010 call up and be the everyday LF in 2011 with Span in CF. Sanchez in a Twins uniform will not happen. Billy Smith is too gun shy from last season’s trade disaster and the Bucs are looking to lock him in long-term along with their SS Wilson. By the way, way to go Garrett Jones, possible NL Player of the Week.
