Liriano scratched with a sore forearm but not serious. Duensing to start
Posted on July 29th, 2009 – 3:27 PMBy La Velle
Lefthander Francisco Liriano has been scratched because of swelling in his left forearm. We’ll have more details later after Gardy has his presser around 5 p.m.
So it’s the battle of the replacement pitchers, as lefty Brian Duensing will start opposite of righthander Jose Contreras - who is filling in for righthander Bartolo Colon, who has been placed on the 15-day DL with a sore elbow. Lefthander Randy Williams has been called up from Class AAA Charlotte to replace him on the roster.
The most shocking development of the day is that the lineups have been released! Earliest of the season…
Update: It’s officially being called forearm irriation and no one thinks it’s serious. If fact, the Twins plan to start Liriano on Wednesday at Cleveland. He’ll rest a couple days, then throw in the bullpen over the weekend.
Liriano even sounded upbeat as he talked about his condition.
Update 2: According to Dejan Kovacevic of the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette, Freddy Sanchez has been told not to fly with the team to Phoenix and remain at AT&T Park. Not good news for the Twins
White Sox (51-50)
1. Scott Podsednik, CF
2. Gordon Beckham, 3B
3. Jermaine Dye, RF
4. Paul Konerko, DH
5. Alexei Ramirez, SS
6. Mark Kotsay, 1B
7. Carlos Quentin, LF
8. Jayson Nix, 2B
9. Ramon Castro, C
Pitching: Jose Contreras, RHP
Twins (51-50)
1. Denard Span, LF
2. Joe Mauer, C
3. Justin Morneau, 1B
4. Jason Kubel, DH
5. Michael Cuddyer, RF
6. Joe Crede, 3B
7. Carlos Gomez, CF
8. Nick Punto, SS
9. Alexi Casilla, 2B
Pitching: Brian Duensing, LHP
608 Responses to "Liriano scratched with a sore forearm but not serious. Duensing to start"
A sweep would be a beautiful thing.
Casilla’s walk to break up Burhle’s perfect game earns him another start amd benching of Harris???
Who is the next pitcher up from AAA?
Why bench Harris?
With Punto and Go-Go on a tear, we can live with a defense-only 2B (Casilla).
it goes without saying but it is absolutely tiring to see other teams make these deals that put their teams in prime position and it would be nice as a fan to have a reason to be excited for the last 2 months of the season. that twins line up is like having the pitcher bat TWICE! its tough to win like that and it isnt fair to the fans, the players on the team or the manager to have to put up with that. punto and casilla combine to hit less than .200 for favre sake 
Wow, has Gardy finally decided to stick with Gomez over Young? While it is not good for Young at least 1 of them is back full time. I suspect Young is just platooning at DH against tough matchups when it presents.
big D:
I hope it is Manship.
LaVelle,
Where is Delmon going to end up? I think it’s clear he’s going to be traded but who has interest?
i’m not a dr. but i play one on a baseball blog, and in my blog medical opinion any time a pitcher has swelling in the arm he throws with it isn’t a good sign.
fire are you surprised that harris is on the bench?
As long as Punto gets one hit every two games he’ll be in the lineup.
Are Punto and Casilla better left handed hitters?
Disappointing, but not surprising, to see Harris is the IF on the bench.
Punto is not on a tear. Sitting Harris in favor of both Punto and Casilla for the 3rd time in a week is laughable. Come on Gardy.
Would be interesting to have had (and may well have soon) two leadoff players with such names: Putzitniukniuk (aka, Podsednik) and Grudzelaniukniuk (aka, Grudzielanek).. kind of a stooge lineup
When is Delmon going to play again if ever, he was starting to play better awhile ago and then got benched, now the twins will not get anything in a trade for him
“With Punto and Go-Go on a tear, we can live with a defense-only 2B (Casilla).” Sarcasm? I hope so, Casilla is below the Mendoza line, how could you possibly start him with Crede back?
I hope they call up Phil McKracken, Stu Padasso, or Manny Kanblo.
“how could you possibly start him with Crede back?”
Crede is playing 3B.
I love my Twins, but I don’t know how much longer I can keep watching when pathetic Casilla plays every day and Harris gets spot duty. Somebody needs to tear into Gardy’s butt soon or it may be time for him to go. Maybe it’s just that he loves guys with names he can put his ridiculous “y” on the end of like “Nicky” and “Lexi”, but even he realizes that talking about “Harry” sounds stupid.
Maybe DY isn’t playing, because he’s at the center of trade talks… Sorry, I couldn’t even type that with a straight face.
Colon’s elbow is still sore from the hot dog eating contest on the 4th of July.
This is agonizing waiting for a trade(s) that probably won’t ever occur. C’mon Billy………We would rather see you go down swinging than go down looking like you usually do!
I’m not sure why anyone would prefer Casilla over Harris, but either Gardy does, or the GM has told him to.
Either way, it is an odd decision. Just odd.
it is clear, to me, that gardy sees harris as a sub. nicky is his full time ss and any warm (cold, maybe even dead) body is his 2b. harris has not been considered a starter unless someone is injured and he has no other choice. at least that is the way it appears to me.
if somebody sees this another way feel free to show me the error of my ways!
It’s not just odd, it’s one of the worst displays of coaching judgment I’ve ever witnessed. Can’t imagine what Harris does to deserve his stays in Gardy’s doghouse.
“how could you possibly start him with Crede back?”
Crede is playing 3B.
No kidding Sy. Then we put Harris at ss and Punto at 2nd
is Harris incapable of turning a DP? cause if not, I don’t get it either.
THE Solution to Our Infield Problems
We don’t need Sanchez or Cabrera.
I got three words for ya… Denny… Hocking… comeback.
Punto plays the same position as Harris. Punto is hot right now, Harris is not. Not really a hard to call situation, really not one to want the manager fired over…
Lavelle, could you please corner Gardy and get a competent answer on why Punto and Casilla can suck and Harris gets no play. Seriously he is losing me as a fan. Can you also show him every Fielding metric out there that shows that Punto is below average in every category and Harris is above him. Is Punto is love child, becasue he is horrible. Can you please ask him a tough question.
How long before Punto gets injured again? It seems to be the only way that Gardy will keep him out of the lineup.
BC of ND says:
July 29th, 2009 at 3:59 pm
Colon’s elbow is still sore from the hot dog eating contest on the 4th of July.
That’s funny because my colon is still sore from the hot dot eating contest.
Sy: you are an idiot
Is Harris just that terrible against Contreras? Maybe Contreras is so terrible that Gardy figures the whole lineup will click against him regardless of who is out there.
Sweep!!!
Sy: you are an idiot
But bigdawg, LNP kisses better than Harris and Casilla needs to be out there to build his confidence.
unbelievable! not only is the FO out of its friggin mind by basically giving up on the twins, but gardy wants to start casilla over harris. and people say gardy is a good manager, give me a break, a dumbass could figure out how to make a lineup better than him.
Harris not playing over Punto and Casilla is an afront to the game of baseball. Casilla is easily a worse defender than Harris. AND Casilla and Punto are two of the worst hitters in the majors, while Harris is about average at his position…
Perhaps Harris is about to be traded…along with Young.
Gardy must want as many piranha’s as possible against Guillen. That’s my only guess as to why they have Casilla instead of Harris in the lineup.
Can anyone tell me how Nick Punto took the job back from Brendan Harris? It confuses me. The Twins called up Casilla to give him one more shot at 2nd base. They were hoping he could return to his 2008 form and fill the gaping hole the Twins had at 2nd. This makes sense. What doesn’t make sense is they took the gaping hole that they had at 2nd and move it to short stop. Couple this with the fact that Casilla has proved that 2008 was a fluke and is somehow worse than Punto and the Twins went from having one terrible infielder to two terrible infielders. Like I said, very confusing.
I know Harris isn’t that good. In fact he is a tick below average. However, he’s certainly better than Casilla and Punto. I can’t believe that Harris never complains. Because he is, quite frankly, being screwed. Gardy needs to quit overemphasizing fake hustle and Casilla’s two month hot streak from last year and play the best players. Right now that is Harris and (gulp) Punto. And soon to be Harris and (meh) Grudzielanek. Over and out.
i cant wait for another head first slide and horribly errant throws on routine plays and maybe a sacrifice bunt double play. hey punto help out your team by injuring yourself, remember it is for the good of the team!
ben says:
“a dumbass could figure out how to make a lineup better than him.”
ben,
The jobs yours, you obviously have the qualifications.
Regards,
sy: I’m not sure how closely you’ve been following the Twins, but with Crede out, the best line-up they could do with current personnel would be Harris 3B, Punto SS, and Casilla 2B. With Crede playing 3rd, they can then move Harris to SS and Punto to 2B, where they played when Casilla was in Rochester. Hopefully Grudzy will be able to play well and they can bench Punto too.
Hmmm, haven’t seen Delmon in awhile and Liriano is scratched for “swelling” in the arm. Trade in the works maybe??
“Harris not playing over Punto and Casilla is an afront to the game of baseball. ”
Nick Punto and Alexi Casilla, in general, are an afront to the game of baseball. Harris doesn’t even have anything to do with that part. How are they on teams?
Any chance that the Twins may be trading Harris?
Gardy keeps running Punto and Casilla out there instead of Harris to show the FO that we need to deal for middle infielders.
With Franchise scratched, we have a MUCH better chance of winning. Not only that, there’s an AWESOME chance the bullpen won’t come into play until the 6th innning instead of 3rd.
there should be a “hands across minnesota” fund raiser to a.) help buy the twins a real 2nd baseman and b.) throw the pohlads in jail for baseball fraud
Yea really! Bench Casilla for Harris and bat him 7th. Then Gomez 8th and Punto 9th.
what is swelling in the forearm? arms swell up from fatigue, injury, or alergic reactions, bug bites, what is swelling of the forearm?
I can understand Punto playing - there are 4 million reasons why. Let’s say you overpay for and Edsel, and everybody laughs at you, you still drive it anyway just because it was your mistake and you’re stuck with it. However, Casilla playing every day makes me feel like a Nationals fan…
realfan says
Punto plays the same position as Harris. Punto is hot right now, Harris is not. Not really a hard to call situation, really not one to want the manager fired over…
Real if Punto is playing around here they ask for Gardy’s head daily. That is just the way it is. lol
Personally I have a hunch that Casilla is on his last leg here. I bet once the deadline hits, Casilla hits the bench if he is still with the team.
To be completely honest, I don’t think I’ve seen a Punto, Harris Middle IF since Casilla came back. The only time he’s received was at third. So while he may be about to be traded, I don’t think that’s the reason for the sitting.
Not to mention how stupid it would be to trade our best middle infielder unless we’re getting two.
Any truth that Colon hurt his elbow while diving for the kicked bucket of gum on Monday night?
I just don’t see the Twins trading any of the current starting five. With no one obvious in the minors that would mean they need a starting pitcher, a relief pitcher, and a middle infielder.
That is an awful tall order for Smith-even if he was in the mood to trade which I doubt and if he could find a buyer for what the Twins are selling, which I highly doubt.
the Dragon says:
July 29th, 2009 at 4:20 pm
ben says:
“a dumbass could figure out how to make a lineup better than him.”
ben,
The jobs yours, you obviously have the qualifications.
Regards,
Touche’ the Dragon! Only problem is Gardy has the qualifications too!
Is DY still on this team??? Gomez plays harder period! that’s why he’s playing over Young. DY is a mediocre hitter who is a below avg OF. Gomez is a below avg hitter who is an exceptional OF, therefore he plays and DY sits. As for Harris I’d play him over Casilla but my guess is gardy wants Punto’s range at SS and another LH bat in the lineup with Alexi. it is funny how the most important thing about this blog is Duensing making a HUGE start in a HUGE game and nobody even mentions it. Everyone continues their fascination with Punto/Casilla/Harris/Gardy.
Seems that Casilla is being given every opportunity to dig himself a very deep grave. He’s hitting .105 since he’s been back. This is his very last shot. Punto over Harris at SS? Cause Punto got 2RBI last night and Harris only got one?????
Dragon,
thank you for that inciteful piece, but you and punto should really get back on your knees gardy needs to shower before the game.
an amber alert was just issued after twins front office people noticed no one had seen or heard from bill smith in days. one person said he may have become confused and went back into hibernation, which he has done before during the winter meetings and the july 31 trading deadline.
please report any sightings to mauer and morneau!
My prediction for the Twins trading deadline moves. They won’t trade for Freddy Sanchez, instead they acquire David Eckstein (Nick Punto Sr.?). Then looking for starting pitching depth, they sign Odalis Perez (after being rebuffed by Tom Glavine) off of free agency, siting how he was a one time all star and who just needs to work with Rick Anderson to return to form. Plus they’ll say how they need someone with experience for the rotation. Then the Twins will send down Brian Deunsing because he’s gonna get drilled tonight, and they will call up Robert Delaney. And remember, they just signed Grudz, so that’s four additions that will “help” the Twins get over the hump. Oh and obviously in this scenario, Punto becomes the starting shortstop, Casilla gets sent to the minors (or traded for Eckstein), Brendan Harris never plays again, and the Twins finish the season 81 - 81. But at least Bill Smith will get to say that he tried.
Castilla couldn’t crack the Nats lineup
Casilla couldn’t crack the Nats lineup!
Tom it is part of Punto Derangment Syndrome PDS. Duensing will probably give us 6 innings today and that should be enough.
Perhaps Harris is about to be traded…along with Young.
I hope we get Garza and Bartlett in return!
Punto is not hot. He sucks. Incapable of being hot.
Can Luke Hughes be that far away? Do we really have to watch Casilla/Tolbert for another year and a half? Come on already. Let him prove he’s not ready in the bigs.
if BS makes a deal– I can’t see getting anything much better than~ Lamb, Monroe, Everett, Batista, Boone, Nevins etc.
Maybe some of our old retreads are better options that what we have now.
Twins big “move” will to bring Grudzielanek from AA once he get’s in a resemblence to game shape. That has been there plan ever since they figured out Alexi Casilla could not hit anymore. I would have to think that the big Dogs, Morneau and Mauer, and even Nathan are rapidly tiring of Bill Smith and his inability to help the big league club beyond the organization. Cuddy he will always tote the company line but let’s face it Morneau and Mauer know they will never get a ring here with Bill Smith running the show.
I wonder if Tony O. can fill in at 2nd.
Luke Hughes is very far away. He has had a disastrous season. I think he may have got sent back to AA when Valencia got promoted to AAA.
Is it really worth all this effort to debate Casilla v. Harris v. Punto? The sad reality is that Gardy has to play two of them, and none of them is a reasonably competent major league middle infielder. That’s not Gardy’s fault. You gotta play the cards you’re dealt.
Still waiting for someone to tell me who we traded DY for. He’s been MIA for a long, long time.
The Twins should pummel Contreras tonight, so Punto and Casilla’s D might be more important tonight than their O.
Well if the Twins trade Liriano, who Pitt asked for in a Sanchez deal, they are going to have to make a deal for a starter.
I nominate for POD:
“”"”"the Dragon says:
July 29th, 2009 at 4:20 pm
ben says:
“a dumbass could figure out how to make a lineup better than him.”
ben,
The jobs yours, you obviously have the qualifications.
Regards,”"”"”
The reason is, Dragon, your 4:20 comment applies to many of the commentors on these blogs.
Thanks….Doc
tedge that sucks.. he hurt? or just over rated or over matched?
So what exactly does Billy Smith do for his paycheck? Answer phones for the Pohlads and maybe occasionally fire up the grill for the annual front office company picnic?
if bill smith manages to pick up sanchez i am putting 1000 dollars down on some powerball numbers (i dont know if powerball is still available, but i will be involved in some sort of gambling)
it is funny how the most important thing about this blog is Duensing making a HUGE start in a HUGE game and nobody even mentions it. Everyone continues their fascination with Punto/Casilla/Harris/Gardy.
I don’t see a reasonable alternative to Duensing starting, at least not one within Gardy’s control.
See how that’s differenent from the middle infield situation?
Try to keep up.
Contreras is better now. Check out his stats since he has come back from the minors. They are pretty good. His ERA is around 3.5, whip around 1, K/9 close to 9, K/BB 4:1. All since being recalled from the minors. Lately, is hasn’t been quite as good, but certainly then better than some commenters consider him.
Well if the Twins trade Liriano, who Pitt asked for in a Sanchez deal, they are going to have to make a deal for a starter.
Pittsburgh asked for Liriano? Thanks Pittsburgh!! Why isn’t it a done deal?
Tedge:
I know. But I still say against the Twins lineup, he gets pummelled. It’s a history thing.
Casilla is getting every possible chance to regain his 2B job, because if he can hit like 2008MLB, 2009 AAA, or winterball, he will be the answer to the 2B hole.
If not, here comes Grudz.
Punto plays SS ahead of Harris until he starts popping up again.
Then Harris regains SS (offensively) and Punto becomes the defensive SS replacement.
agreed Walter, if they can get Sanchez for the “new” Liriano…..even if Sanchez only has 1 knee left..take it. I think we could probably proceed to trade for another starter with a plus 5 era and is at least 4-10
I even hate to ask but can someone remind me what LNP (Punto) stands for?
I think Hughes did get hurt, I also think that in AAA he was playing 3B and was really struggling defensively which led to him struggling offensively. When they sent him down to AA they moved him back to 2B to get him back to being comfortable on a baseball field again. I think to say that his status as a prospect has diminished significantly this year. It’s not over for him just a huge step backwards.
I am worried but think that the jury is still out on what the Twins will do. For example, as recently as 4;35, ESPN is reporting that there is no Sanchez deal with the Giants and that the Pirates are still talking to the Twins. I just wonder who the Twins are going to give up. I don’t assume there are many players in whom other teams are interested at this point.
Little Nicky Punto
LNP= Little Nicky Punto
I think if Billy Smith could aquire a Dirty Sanchez, things would really escalade from there!
Pirates want Liriano for Sanchez and Liriano gets pulled from his start. Hmmm.
I thought that LNP, because he has so many fans on these blogs, stood for Love Nick Punto.
There is only on way that this could make sense, that Casilla could play over Harris. It must be that they are giving Casilla one last chance before…. something happens. Perhaps he will be waived if he doesn’t hit better soon. With Grudz ready soon, it could happen.
Casilla is getting every possible chance to regain his 2B job, because if he can hit like 2008MLB, 2009 AAA, or winterball, he will be the answer to the 2B hole.
Casilla did NOT hit in 2008. Can we please put that urban myth to rest, once and for all?
He hit for a month.
Which doesn’t even address the issues of a shaky glove, questionable instincts, and unreliable concentration.
I even hate to ask but can someone remind me what LNP (Punto) stands for?
Like Nothing Perceivable
USA you are correct….Casilla makes more “mental” errors at 2b than most HS players…..and one month of adequate hitting does not a career make.
Scratch that Luke Hughes still appears to be playing 3B in AA. I did here the AA or AAA manager say that he thinks that Hughes is ultimately a 2B.
Thanks for the early lineups, LEN3. Nice to see Kubel back in there against a right-handed pitcher.
Little to No Production
both gardy and bill smith should be taken out and verbally abused…harris should be playing hands down, and either punto or casilla sitting, as either of them couldnt crack the fargo moorhead redhawks team…i feel they are trading harris, as gardy just doesnt like him for some reason-just more reason to question gardys smarts…
On the plus side Luke Hughes has a career era of 0.00. Albeit, in only 1 inning in 2007.
Hughes started off at AAA he was decent with the bat .260 with decent power…. problem is he isn’t a 3B though they keep playing him there, when he got hurt Valencia was called up to Rochester and has tooken off…. Hughes didn’t have a position at AAA so they sent him to AA to get AB’s…. but they are still playing him at 3rd…. he has batted .240 at AA but I don’t think its a worrysome .240 but at the same point he isn’t ready for a callup….
At least Gardy figured out that Gomez is better than Delmon Young.
Little Nicky Punto
what is swelling in the forearm? arms swell up from fatigue, injury, or alergic reactions, bug bites, what is swelling of the forearm?
That is a great question in this case… And another one is where on the forearm. Recent TJ surgery patients can have swelling due to complications. If it is high on the forearm close to the replaced ligament, its a problem…
With this all crazy talk about the Twins getting a middle infielder, given the facts that the middle infield positions are primarily defensive positions and they got a possible upgrade in Grudz, this team should get at least 3 pitchers ASAP either one or two starters and Perkins to the pen or a starter and 2 relievers (Duensing and Keppel go). The rotation at this point is not a post-season caliber rotation. It has one decent pitcher (Baker), a rookie question mark (Swarzak), a guy who is up and down and pitched over his head all season (Blackburn), a guy who is better suited to be a reliever with arguably personality issues (Perkins) and Liriano (who might be seriously hurt and has been up and down all season)… And Duensing and Dickey are the fill ins.
Not acceptable competitive rotation.
liriano scratched with a phantom ailment, has to be going somewhere with delmon?…pit. im hoping im right on this one
“He hit for a month.”
If Casilla now hits for TWO months, (which is NOT an outrageous extrapolation) it will be worth the shot he gets while waiting for Grudz to arrive.
If not, its a couple weeks of Casilla instead of Punto.
Not much of downgrade.
I may have missed this…but did anyone notice Sanchez not in PIT’s lineup today? Wilson got traded…so now they CANT play together. I say we give up something to get him…
They might be getting ready to deal Gomez. While his bat is not yet there, he can play centerfield for a contender right now.
Walter, what makes you say that?
The thing about Middle Infield is if we got Sanchez he would resign with the team for 3 more years…. We don’t have anything near Sanchez ready on the farm and I really don’t like sending out Punto and Casilla day after day…..
im feeling a DY/Liriano/Humber for Sanchez/Grabow/Capps deal in the making baaaaby
Or that Lexi can hit lefty and Harris is righty.
Or that it’s been well established they don’t like Harris at 2nd for his issues turning a DP from that spot.
If Harris plays it will only be at short or 3rd (barring injury).
Walter, what makes you say that?
Because sometimes I don’t think before I type.
LNP = LITTLE ‘r NO POTENTIAL
Freddy Sanchez had his injured left knee examined by Giants’ doctors on Wednesday.
There were no significant issues found, but it remains to be seen if the Giants and Pirates will work out a deal for the infielder. The latest indicator that a trade could be coming soon is that Sanchez has received permission to spend Thursday’s off day at his home in Phoenix, so that if he gets traded to a West Coast team he’ll already be in the vicinity.
Source: Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
I mostly agree with thrylos there, I’ve been saying SP is THE problem for some time. However, it’s darn hard to deal for SP. That’s why I want Sanchez (and Snell too). They’ll still have 2B to fix next year, even if they somehow fixed the pitching. While 2B is generally a defensive position, the Twins’ current players are SO BAD on O, that they actually manage to cancel out how good M&M are. That’s no easy feat….but between the 2B, SS, and occasional LF, the black holes have been black holes.
But, trading for players is wrong/bad/evil, a team should ONLY rely on its draft picks (too bad the Twins don’t have enough good ones at 2B or SP to be better this year, but I’m CERTAIN the guys in the minors will fix everything next year).
When the Twins last faced Contreras, Casilla went 3 for 5 and Punto went 2 for 5. Casilla scored 2 runs, Punto scored 2 runs, and Punto had 2 RBI. Casilla and Punto accounted for half the Twins runs that night.
This shouldn’t be that hard to understand, if Punto plays 2B, then Harris can play short. Harris is better than Casilla. I’m not sure what isn’t clear here….
THRYLOS..what are perkins ‘personality issues’?
With Ian Snell traded, the only way I see Liriano included in any trade to Pittsburgh is if we get Zach Dukes in return. And frankly, I don’t think the Twins would make up an injury to scratch him from this start. They have indicated he went to a Dr. last night. Unless they are flat out making things up, he really is injured.
mike wants wins, well you aren’t getting Snell as he was sent to Seattle earlier today.
Harris & Young traded?
Walter,
“Because sometimes I don’t think before I type”
That has never been a requirement for any of us.
t michael, the fact that he insists he is hurt everytime he gets absolutely rocked.
Freddy Freddy Freddy Freddy
Lets take from the pirates while they are in the giving mood. I dont know how many more times my blood pressure can stand another Casilla strikeout/pop up/weak grounder to second ect ect ect
I agree that the starting rotation is a weakness. But I don’t think the Twins are willing to give up what it takes to get a starting pitcher of any quality. They do have what it takes to get Freddy Sanchez. Plus as far as the Twins weaknesses, 2b is equal to SP. They are getting absolutely 0 production there. It’s a massive hole.
Less Nick, Please!
Or is he scratched because he is involved in the trade for Freddie!!! One can dream right…
If Casilla now hits for TWO months, (which is NOT an outrageous extrapolation) it will be worth the shot he gets while waiting for Grudz to arrive.
It’s possible. But when you consider he has 1800 minor league and 800 major league plate appearances that indicate he WON’T hit much, and then consider that Grudz is 39 and hasn’t played in a year, I’d say the chances aren’t good the Twins get much from second base this year.
If not, its a couple weeks of Casilla instead of Punto.
Not much of downgrade.
Sad but true. Not something I’d be using as a defense for the front office’s inactivity, though.
“Harris is better than Casilla. I’m not sure what isn’t clear here….”
Over the long haul (1-3 years), THAT isn’t clear here.
Nickie is an awesome UTIL player and a good teammate…….but my GOD not a starter…this has to be obvious to everyone….right?
Some Freddy info… 3yr $20M is reasonable. All-Star, .300 hitter..
Only $2m a year more the LNP.
From MLB Trades
Pirates Turn Down Sanchez’s Offer; Trade Next?
By Ben Nicholson-Smith [July 29 at 4:52pm CST]
4:52pm: Ken Rosenthal and Jon Paul Morosi of FOX Sports hear that the Pirates are talking to the Giants, Twins and at least one other team about Sanchez, but don’t have a deal in place.
4:43pm: Kovacevic reports that the Giants’ doctors found no major problems with Sanchez’s knee and consider him day-to-day.
3:31pm: Kovacevic hears that the Pirates turned down Sanchez’s offer. He proposed a deal that would have paid him $6MM next year, $6.5MM in 2011 and $7.5MM in 2012
but mike when gardy makes out the lineup card nicky will be at ss not harris, gardy doesn’t like harris at 2b so the only one left is casilla.
nicky is gardy’s ss period! why don’t people understand that?
what are perkins ‘personality issues’?
If you haven’t noticed twice this year he played sick after 2 bad starts. Last season he chewed Casilla on the field after an error by the later and then managed to implode on the mount.
it’s darn hard to deal for SP.
Look at what the Mariners gave up for Snell and Wilson (+$3M):
A problem child with no position, a younger clone of LNP, 2 average A level prospects and an A level not prospect
bringing in pitchers from the pirates in no different than bringing someone up like philip humber.
Thanks, but no thanks, for the devil’s advocacy, thry.
You like Swarzak, and he’s doing well. And Blackburn is definitely an acceptable MLB pitcher — and did well in the “playoff” situation v. the Sux last year. And Baker’s okay. I’ll grant you some of your Perkins pessimism though.
True, there’s no ace and foreseeable big-game pitcher — especially for the post-season. And that’s because Slowey and Liriano are injured.
So, there’s your problem. These are big losses. What’s the solution, get a couple of Swarzak/Blackburn type pitchers?
we could actually use you Houston Jimenez…still got ur glove oiled up?
People don’t understand it because it is the incorrect decision.
Yeah, I meant to say “and why I wanted Snell” (knowing he was gone). Bad typing on my part.
ggg, I was trying to talk to the people posting here, not gardy. I have no illusion gardy would listen to me. But, I get your well made point….
Remember when the Twins traded Gary Ward to Texas for John Butcher and Mike Smithson? Neither of those two were top pitchers, but they really solidified the rotation for a couple of years.
What’s the solution, get a couple of Swarzak/Blackburn type pitchers?
No. If you look at starting pitcher’s who are still potentially available (too bad the Ian Snell bird flew away) someone like Washburn or Kasmir might go long ways. There is a second tier of starters also available and any one of them would be an improvement over what would happen if Liriano is out for a while
Liriano stinks and Duensing is straight unaccaptable. He should have NEVER seen the majors.
Career .185 hitter… He would fit in!
damn right he would
he was a star in the 80s
Casilla’s long lost uncle
ggg,
Your supposition that Gardy would play LNP ahead of a legitimate shortstop may be true, but I think that it is unproven.
It is unproven because the last legitimate shortstop (Bartlett) DID play ahead of Punto.
Since then, they have all been illegitimate.
I know.
I checked thir birth records.
LaVelle-
Any serious trade talks of any sort going on involving the Twins?
First team to 8 runs wins tonite….I’m guessing that Duensing/Dickey will give up 5-7 BEFORE the 6th inning. Twins need a sweep…a loss makes last nite’s effort against Buerle meaningless… Milty
Washburn I think is the most over-rated pitcher out there, he is a fly ball pitcher who has the best defensive outfield behind him, playing in the best pitchers park….. he is also a Boras client who just like every single other of his clients seems to be a lot better in contract years then they are for the rest of the season….
Fire sale anyone?
Time for trading
Crede,Cuddy,Young,Blackburn,Liriano,ect.
Why make a deal…..the stadium is built! The Twins only offense at 2B is Lexi doing his best Eddie Goedel (3′5″) impersonation. There’s 100’s of guys playing beer league softball that could put up the Twins middle IF numbers.
As per MLB Trade Rumors.
Instead of making a scheduled flight to Phoenix, Sanchez has apparently been asked to stay at AT&T Park in San Francisco, reports Kovacevic. Looks like we’ll find out the details of a deal very soon.
Uh oh for the Twinkies.
walter they solidified the rotation on some poor teams. do we have a gary ward to trade? only one close is cuddy and gardy would have to go in that trade.
-I can’t believe only one person brought up the fact that Gardy is clearly playing Casilla every day hoping he continues to do bad to pressure Bill Smith into finding him a decent 2B. Gardy is brilliant!!
-At least after no trade is made again this week we’ll be able to console ourselves knowing the front office once again protected our minor league system. Of course, non of those games are on TV, and nobody really cares about the minor league teams. But who would want to mortgage the future for a World Series winner when we can have years and years of “contending”.
-Just one simple question: are you saying there isn’t a single body in our minor leagues that couldn’t hit above .165 and play second base? Really? Nobody? Well, there goes the theory of the Twins great minor league system.
Tedge:
They have flights from SF to Minneapolis, you know.
Beer League softball players couldn’t kiss a MLB players’ @$$…including Lexi’s.
The don’t have flights from SF to SF, though.
Here is what is going on with Sanchez and the Giants:
a couple days ago, the Pirates and the Giants agreed to a deal (reported as done today by some media outlets). Then the Giants backed off because of concerns about his knee. He was seen by a SF doc today. If he is deemed healthy that deal will fly.
NO!!!!!!!!!
Source: Giants acquire Sanchez
According to one source, the Giants have acquired Pirates second baseman Freddy Sanchez in a one-for-one deal for a minor-leaguer. I am seeking more confirmation.
Posted By: Henry Schulman (Email) | July 29 2009 at 03:41 PM
Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/giants/detail?&entry_id=44521#ixzz0Mgw7WBQr
walter they solidified the rotation on some poor teams.
You don’t think our present rotation fits that description?
MLB trade rumors says is for a Minor leaguer, straight up
He’s a giant. Boo Bill Smith. A pox on you.
sane i would be happy to be proven wrong!
there isn’t a single body in our minor leagues that couldn’t hit above .165 and play second base?
There are about 3 at this point:
Mark Grudzielanek
Steve Tolleson
Luke Hughes
Brian Dinkelman could also do it
take your pick.
“there isn’t a single body in our minor leagues that couldn’t hit above .165 and play second base?”
Yes, but they all hit worse than Lexi at did at AAA.
So the best possibility to hit above .165 for the next two weeks is sill Lexi.
Breaking news:
Sanchez traded to Giants for Tim Alderson, Class AA pitcher
Sanchez for a AA pitcher & we couldn’t top that deal??? guh!
there isn’t a single body in our minor leagues that couldn’t hit above .165 and play second base?
Tolbert could hit at least .179 and play second base.
Alderson was the Giants’ 2007 1st round draft pick and has been pitching ok but not exceptionally in the minors so far
You have to be kidding me!!!!!!! One AA pitcher for Sanchez and BS couldn’t make this trade happen. Makes me sick…. Sick I say! UGH!!!
we couldn’t do Guerra and Tosoni?
“they wanted too much”
“we have better options in our system for next year”
“we didn’t want to weaken this year’s team”
“it was too much money, what with having to (not) sign Mauer next year”
“Grudzy will be here soon, we didn’t need him”
“we like the team we have” ”
“trust us, we’ll fix the team next off season”
Somebody, anybody, please tell me Tim Alderson was a top prospect. Lie to me, I don’t care.
Alderson is better than anything we have.
1st round pick in 2007.
13-4, 2.79 ERA in high-A ball in 2008.
6-1 at AA in 2009
6′6″, 217 lbs.
You’ve got to be kidding me, what’s this guy projected to be?
“Tolbert could hit at least .179 and play second base.”
Don’t set the bar too high, Walter!
Alderson was listed as the #4 Giants’ prospect by Baseball America if that matters
CHEAP AS CHEAP DOES this proves it. TERRY RYAN, TERRY RYAN, TERRY RYAN, TERRY RYAN. The pupiteer still pulls the strings and Bill Smith is a puppit, what a fricken Joke. Sanchez get’s traded for one minor leauger straight up and we could not or would not beat that deal. These two guy’s could not win a championship in a one car parade where they were the only show.
shazel is back here too, spewing venom and bad, really bad smelling BS.
SF number 4 overall prospect….
Mike, I prefer:
“we had a lot of talks, but we just couldn’t find the right fit”
Wow, you mean the Pirates wouldn’t take Punto for Sanchez?
Boy they are greedy!
Alderson also had 124 SO against 34 BB in 2008.
A few seconds late. Hard to beleive we couldn’t match this.
In 26 innings in A ball this year Alderson had 20 SO and 3 BB, this kid must have some stuff. In a combine 98 innings this year 66 SO and 17 BB.
yes, I forgot that one Mac…thanks.
Wow, well here come the excuses. Shocking result from BS and company. Now watch as we give up more than the Giants and get Cabrera instead….
Sickening. It is always the same.
Boo.
Sanchez traded for AA Tim Alderson
t98 would alderson compare to gutierrez?
Alderson’s numbers:
http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=alders001tim
Alderson is better than anything we have.
I beg to differ. Look at the peripherals in AA this season:
5.7 K/9 3.29 K/BB 1.239 WHIP.
He is 20.
Here is Deolis Guerra’s numbers in AA this season:
1.360 WHIP, 9.0 K/9, 3.57 K/BB
He is also 20.
I can’t wait to see how they fix 2B next year! If I ever listened to BS (which I cannot stand to do), I’d be interested in which standard quote he’d use.
LaVelle, how about some commentary on this? Honest opinion, or would that jeopardize your press credentials?
Alderson was pirates 4th best prospect
Alderson was the Giants #4 rated prospect (#2 pitching prospect) per 2009 Baseball America Prospect Handbook.
Comparable to Swarzak who was Twins #6 prospect and #2 pitching prospect in the same source.
Thank’s Joe, was great having you, you will be missed.
I really don’t care about what Alderson has done in AA doesn’t equate into a MLB pitcher. Doesn’t mean anything. UGH!!!
ggg,
Alderson is not a strikeout pitcher. He is a control pitcher who puts the ball in play and hopes for outs. In that respect he compares to Gutierrez
Yea, A Class AA pitcher who according to BA is the #4 prospect in Giants system, rated by many as one of the Top 5 in the Major Leagues.
Regards,
Alderson has also given up more than a hit per inning this year, and has a K rate of 6 per 9. Less than that at the AA level. His WHIP are decent, but not extraordinary.
A nice prospect, and only 20 years old.
Nothing real special though, especially when you consider TINSTAAPP.
Hard to believe we couldn’t match that.
Hey, did you guys hear that Sanchez was traded and Alderson was the Giants #4 prospect? True story!
Dragon,
So I’m confused, so the Giants have (had) 4 of the top 5 prospects?
In other probably more important news, Liriano was diagnosed with a “forearm inflammation” (what the hey is that?) and he has no structural damage. He is scheduled to start next Wed.
What do you think BS will say to Mauer, Morneau and Nathan? Seriously. What could he possibly say to them at this point that would make them feel like he’s going to make the team better (not try to, but actually going to)?
No more excuses the Twins can lie all they want BUT THEY ARE TO CHEAP TO WIN A CHAMPIONSHIP. This was strictly dollars all the way not just a one for one prospect. Twins could have beat this deal, they did not want to take on the salary otherwise they would not have been sniffing around Scutaro or Exkstein.
No more excuses the Twins can lie all they want BUT THEY ARE TO CHEAP TO WIN A CHAMPIONSHIP. This was strictly dollars all the way not just a one for one prospect. Twins could have beat this deal, they did not want to take on the salary otherwise they would not have been sniffing around Scutaro or Exkstein.
No more excuses the Twins can lie all they want BUT THEY ARE TO CHEAP TO WIN A CHAMPIONSHIP. This was strictly dollars all the way not just a one for one prospect. Twins could have beat this deal, they did not want to take on the salary otherwise they would not have been sniffing around Scutaro or Exkstein.
Alderson was the Giants #4 prospect (though he wasn’t on the same level as Bumgardner)…. similar to Swarzak is about right…. Pirates must be taking on some of the salary though…. also the Twins could of matched this with a Casilla, Plouffe and Fox type of deal….
thrylos98:
I will grant that it appears Alderson and Guerra are similar. Would you have given Guerra for Sanchez?
“Hard to believe we couldn’t match that.”
If the Twins could match Alderson, THAT guy would be pitching tonight instead of DUNCE-ING.
that’s ok we’ll be trading harris for grudzie in a week or so.
Tim Alderson
http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/A/Tim-Alderson.shtml
45th best prospect by Baseball America heading into the season. Listed among, `the next 25,’ on BA’s midseason Top 25 prospects.
Who’s the Tim Alderson of the Twins’ org?
Guerra’s stats in AA are in 5 games.
His A whip is the same. But K/9 are 5.9 and K/BB is 2.28. His single A numbers are more in line with his career numbers.
Way to cherry pick Walter.
Ok, calmed down from my initial blow-up.
I don’t really know why any of us are really that upset. Could the Twins have gotten Sanchez? Yeah, they could’ve, probably along with Capp/Grabow, but they would have had to give up a pretty impressive arm (and a marginal prospect or two for the reliever) to do so. It just doesn’t happen in the Twins’ system.
Bummer deal, but at this point, I don’t really know why I even get worked up. We all knew that we weren’t going to get an impact player
I just hope that BS doesn’t go hard after lesser players (i.e. Cabrera) who won’t offer much help anyway….
Hopefully this doesn’t negatively affect Mauer’s decision to play here in the future, but…. how could it not?
Win tonight Twins!
The hysteria here is amazing.
I can smell the estrogen coming off the internet.
Would you have given Guerra for Sanchez?
Nope. (But I would have given him for a decent starter, in a package, or a very good reliever)
I just don’t think that middle infield should be the priority of the Twins right now.
Then give them two prospects! Tosioni, Guerra, or Hunt, or Guitterez -
aside from Cabrera who else is there to get?
is Uggla get-able?
Way to cherry pick Walter.
You meant thrylos98, right? I never posted any of Guerra’s stats.
twins should trade for the A’s Justin Ducherer. that’s an ace in the rotation for a small price.
La Velle, I don’t care.
The point is, this team has once again not acquired a player. Just as Nick Punto is outclassed by pitchers, this organization (which is supposedly so good at drafting and developing players) was once again outclassed by other organizations. If they don’t have anyone in the minors to deal for a 2B that is over 30 and isn’t cheap, then they have a crap organization.
Where’s the evidence this organization is good at this stuff at all right now? They have no one in their system that can hit over .200 at the MLB level (and be trusted to field the position) at 2B. How is that even possible?
I’d give Mulvey for Sanchez straight up and that would be comparable…. Guerra is only 20 and I listened to his one start and the other teams radio guys said his fastball was 93 with run, he had a major league hard curveball, a really good straight change and an inbetween pitch a changeup/curveball type of pitch that they were really impressed with….
If the Twins could match Alderson, THAT guy would be pitching tonight instead of DUNCE-ING.
You know better than that, sane.
Or are you suggesting Guerra should be starting tonight?
Sorry Walter.
Camden says:July 29th, 2009 at 6:04 pm
“Dragon,
So I’m confused, so the Giants have (had) 4 of the top 5 prospects?”
Camden,
My wording was inartful.
I was trying to say the Giant’s Minor League system is regarded as a Top 5 system.
The #4 rated prospect would probably be better than Humber and Watkins. 
Regards,
You know, if they don’t acquire a legit player at the deadline this year, after their best players went public, I’m not sure why I should care anymore. I’ve never understood why I care anyway, maybe this is the excuse I’ve been looking for to excise them from my dna….
Guerra was (is) a three year bust in A-Ball, who was promoted DESPITE his Fort Myers numbers.
He has had a little success at AA, but is NOT CLOSE to Alderson’s level or ceiling.
In the minors, maybe Jeff Manship is comparable.
huh? Guerra, Swarzak and Mulvey are all similar to Alderson….
I re-read that later, and guessed that’s what you were intending.
We cannot even trade a AA prospect to get established 2nd baseman, what a piece of junk Smith is. The only trades he has done were lousy. I will not spend my money on a middle of a road team.I already spend enough in taxes for this “B” team. Get ready to say goodbye to Mauer, why play for a proven B team, at least Mcphail would pick up someone. How many of the “A” prospects will even make it in the show, most are a flash in the pan
it could be worse we could be giants fans and the gm is trading all the good prospects away to try and win now. think how bad we’d feel if that happened!
I agree there should be less hysteria. This comes as no surprise. I just think that Sanchez was a perfect fit for the Twins, this year and next. I think people share this sentiment and are simply frustrated at the Twins unwillingness to make a deal.
Also, people say the Twins are too cheap. That’s not true. They are too afraid to make a deal. I doubt it was about money; it was about prospects and (over)valuing them. The Twins always have done that. Sometimes for the best and sometimes for the worst.
No excuse for not topping that Smith. Get lost.
All Star 2nd basemen straight up for a AA minor leaguer!!…
The real kicker will be if Pitt is paying any part of Sanchez’s salary the rest of the year
Chief,
Guerra and Alderson are not comparable.
Maybe Manship and Alderson are.
Guerra is a bust, so far…but he is only 20.
Guerra was a 3 year guy in A ball who was still older then 90% of the players there, he was the youngest guy pitching in the FSL 2 years in a row……
Maybe Swarzak would have gotten Sanchez. Stupid Bill Smith for not doing that deal.
Regards,
Guerra part of the Johan deal??
Tedge-
I agree, but the Twins front office needs to prove that they are willing to spend some money pretty quick…. Attendence is great, and they are well below the budget they set a couple years ago.
The Giants have one of the best farm systems in baseball. They can afford to trade some of their prospects to make the playoffs this year.
” Guerra, Swarzak and Mulvey are all similar to Alderson”
Guerra, Swarzak and Mulvey are not even similar to each other.
Guerra - High A failure (so far)
Swarzak - MLB success (so far)
Mulvey - MLB failure (so far)
Swarzak would have gotten Sanchez in trade….and left us with a trashed MLB rotation.
sane says:July 29th, 2009 at 6:18 pm
“Chief,
…Guerra is a bust, so far…but he is only 20″
sane,
Wasn’t Swarzak a “bust” in AA last year? Got promoted to AAA and now in ML.
How does that happen?
Regards,
I read 3 reports saying Pittsburg got the better of the deal, I guess it depends on Sanchez’s leg, and how this kid developes. Had we gotten Sanchez and he went on the DL I could see 1/s the posters on saying how BS was an idiot…. He can’t win if he makes a trade or not.
Why would anyone think Washburn is available now that Seattle is a buyer not a seller?
The sad thing is, this season is a bust because Slowey and Liriano are.
People are surprised we didn’t get Sanchez? Really? And if not getting Sanchez is going to make you stop attending games, great, but we really don’t need to hear you whine about it.
I’m not an apologist at all…I still seeing what kind of move Billy makes. He has 24 hours left and I don’t think he’s stupid enough to sit on his hands and let the trade deadline pass without doing anything. Especially after the comments from Morneau and Nathan earlier this week.
“”"Walter Johnson says:
July 29th, 2009 at 5:17 pm
“Walter, what makes you say that?”
Because sometimes I don’t think before I type.”"”
Then….”"”"”sane says:
July 29th, 2009 at 5:25 pm
Walter,
“Because sometimes I don’t think before I type”
That has never been a requirement for any of us.”"”"”
Walter and sane…this exchange is
Absolutely 100% true for most of the “experts” on these blogs who do and know nothing. Like me, but I do not let everyone know that.
I don’t know why everyone is so upset about missing out on Sanchez, we still have uhhh Phil Nevin, uhh Batista, uhh Cirrillo, uhh Grudzielanek waiting to get the call up, that is just like a trade right?
Dragon,
“sane,
Wasn’t Swarzak a “bust” in AA last year? Got promoted to AAA and now in ML.
How does that happen?”
Beats me!
But sometimes an undeserved promotion gives a kid a shot of motivation that he couldn’t get at his previos job.
Maybe I do understand it!
Does’nt seem like much does it, I have no idea about this Alderson fellow or what the Twins were offering. LaVelle can you FIND this out!!!!!!!!!!!
David-
I don’t really think that is true–too many people just want to see a significant player brought in mid-season. Sure, there would be disappointment, but at least BS would show that he was trying to help the team win this year.
Trades don’t always work out for the best, but they never work out if you don’t attempt them (and they rarely work out when you trade for over-the-hill/marginal players).
Oh well, getting over all of this now. Still gonna be pretty tough to stomach if the Twins lose Mauer and he cites the lack of desire to win (in the front office) as his reason for leaving….
Mulvey pitched on inning in relief….. they all project similar to the guy the Giants gave up….
Tom,
Read the comments above.
LaVelle may be busy for a couple of hours.
I’ve heard a few people here mention Kevin Mulvey as a top Twins prospect? Really? I’d dump him in a minute.
He doesn’t possess front-line starter ability. His fastball is 93, which is average for a 25 year old ‘prospect’.
The Twins could not have traded Mulvey for Sanchez, because the Pirates wouldn’t have taken him…in my opinion. Guerra is the one and only player from that Santana deal that has any long-term potential. Sorry Carlos Gomez…you’re just holding down CF until Ben Revere is ready in 2011.
Straight off of MLB Trade Rumors: “no money is being exchanged in the Sanchez deal, which makes it all the more impressive for the Pirates”.
if i read this right we don’t have a good farm system and can’t spare any of the prospects we have to pick up a quality player at a postion of need. we have a team that is 1 game over .500 after 100 games and a budget that doesn’t allow for signing decent free agents. on top of that our best players are unhappy and the face of the team will probably leave next year to try and win.
other than that everything is going great!
win twins!!
Obviously the knee injury seriously dropped Sancez’s value. Maybe the Twins thought it too big a risk.
Justin, I do think BS is dumb enough to sit on his hands and let the deadline pass.
This is the same guy that let Santana and Hunter walk while trading away Garza and Bartlett for a benchwarmer in his first month on the job.
A pitching prospect for Sanchez? Wow, our front office is absolutely on fire.
kkkkkkk
sane says:July 29th, 2009 at 6:27 pm
“Beats me!
But sometimes an undeserved promotion gives a kid a shot of motivation that he couldn’t get at his previos job.
Maybe I do understand it!”
sane
Wasn’t busting your chops. Just wondering IF after 3+ yrs in FSL, presumably with changed mechanics by Twins, a promotion was needed to see IF it has worked?
Regards,
Keith Law recently ranked the 20-year-old Alderson the 26th-best prospect in all of baseball.
LaVelle-
With just less than 2 days to go before the deadline, do you see BS & the Twins making any move for some bullpen help?
Hey, at least we don’t have to watch anymore hissy-fits between Cliff Lee and Go-nuts
It is a sad day when the T-Wolves are more exciting than the twins (and
I can’t stand b-ball). At least they are willing to make deals in an attempt to improve the team. Hey Bill, you might as well start saying “buy” to Mauer and the rest, that is unless you still have some blockbuster in your backpocket. but I doubt it.
first of all, I will say that the Pirates got quite a bit for Sanchez, especially since they are sending no money…. however I think that the Twins could of made a more attractive offer
maybe a Mulvey, Tosoni, Winfree, Plouffe? maybe a Bromberg? I know its a steep price but when you are bad as the Twins are up the midle there is a point where you say its worth over paying for
Everyone this is not old news. Every year the Twins are one or two players away and the front office never pulls the trigger on a deal. We have way better prospects than the Giants do. This had nothing to do about prospects it had to do about money. Why pay Freddy Sanchez a 8 million option for next year when they can pay Alexi Casilla $500.000 it is that simple. Joe Mauer is a winner and wants to stay in Minnesota. However, he wants to win a world series more than he wants to stay in Minnesota and will leave because of it. The front office has made it known that any player is expendable. See Carew, Viola, Brunansky, Gaetti, Knoblauch, Hunter, Santana and the list goes one and on. Mauer & Morneau will be next.
Guerra may have spent almost 3 years in the FSL but was still one of the younger players there….. its not like that 25 year old who can’t get above AA its a 20 year old pitching in the FSL who has been there since he was 18…..
I know that writing in caps can be annoying but,
FIRE BILL SMITH
FIRE BILL SMITH
FIRE BILL SMITH
It looks like I’m screaming because I am. If you don’t prove your worth you don’t have any.
With Billy “Terry Ryan” Smith as the GM, this team is going no where. The owners and the front office are okay with a mediocre team that challenges for a very weak division title but can’t beat the AL East Powers.
Dear Bill Smith,
If you don’t plan to make a trade for a middle infieleder,please have Mr. Gruedzielanek major league ready ASAP.
Thank You,
Twins Fan
La Velle has posted over and over that he does not believe this FO will make a deal mid season that matters. Maybe that opinion changed when M&M&N came out with their thoughts, but maybe not.
So Matt by saying trades don’t always work out for the best- but they do not work at all if you do attempt them. So if that s the cause no one should bitch about either trade that Bill Smith has made. So far the 2 trades he made have not been great but he made trades so we should all be happy. People seem to forget it takes 2 teams to make a trade, maybe Pittsburg did not like what we had to offfer, maybe we wanted Pittsburg to take on some of the salary, maybe we never talked to Pittsburg at all. None of us no what is going on. My guess is the front office is out looking for a mid level SP to replace Slowey and or Liriano if his injurie lingers, and has given up on a 2nd baseman for now. Also alot of players are going to move through waivers so hope is not totally lost. I just wish people would look at what other teams need or want before saying well we could have trade these 3 guys… for so and so and it would ahve been a better deal….if it was a better deal for the team you want to trade with do you not think they would take the deal.
Jack… Scary but true, I was just hoping that since we just built the Pohlads a new stadium, and because we have the best core players in Mn Twins history to build around, that maybe we would get aggressive.
I’m a little to young to remember but didn’t we spend some money in ‘87 around some core players?
If Bill Smith is unable to get a deal done, hopefully we see Gruedzielanek for some middle infield help before the end of the season
CHief & T98-What is the report on the prospect of Revere? I have heard his defense (in particular his arm) leaves a little something to be desired. True?
Revere- needs to cut off men when thrwoing in from the OF
I agree that Mauer and Morneau with get tired with the excuses by this team and will leave to play for a team that wants to win and will do what it takes to win, not sign stiffs like they have over the past 4-5 years and letting top players walk or trade them for junk.
If the Twins would have kept Garza, Bartlett, Santana and Hunter, they would have a rotation of:
Santana
Garza
Baker
Blackburn
Slowey/Perkins
A Line up of:
Span
Bartlett
Mauer
Morneau
Hunter
Cuddyer
Kubel
Crede
Casailla/Punto
And they would have players in their system they could offer in a trade like Swarzak to get better.
David-
Your perfect rationalization does not take into account losing M&M&N. If we had the strength to compete I would agree with you, but we dont, and our top players know it. It is time to start taking some chances, but the FO is anemic.
I think that if Colon has to go on the DL, the Sox will call up pitcher Herman Rectum from AAA.
Repeating myself but:
The Twins have NO PITCHING PROSPECT IN THEIR MINOR LEAGUE SYSTEM RATED AS HIGH AS ALDERSON. (#36, #46 OVERALL PROSPECT by BA Prospect Handbook)
The Twins could not have matched that offer……Alderson is TOO highly rated!
A great trade for the Twins would have been to give up Casilla and Punto to get Alderson.
CC,
We spent some money but nothing out of the ordinary. Andy Mcphail was in charge back then and not afraid to spend some money to improve the team. However, the direction of the team has changed to the future, the future, the future. Johan Santana was right when he said that is all the front office ever talks about. Tell me when we will ever have three core players like we do now and the front office refuses to even add one piece to help them. Target Field will be sold out for the next 15 years regardless of how the team does and the front office knows this. Bill Smith believes why spend money when the team can be mediocre and he can get a bigger bonus check for saving the team millions.
ATTN HARRIS LOVERS:
1. Punto had 2 professional AB’s v. the “greatest pitcher in the world” when he inside-outed Buehrle. It didn’t work one time; but it really worked the other.
And this was with Punto hitting from his weakest side of the plate. So I’ll go with Gardy’s hunch that Punto is good to go for tonight.
2. And Casilla finally comes through for his coaches with patience and draws a couple walks.
So hail to Gardy’s other hunch that we can see Casilla on the basepaths tonight…..because he could still be the future at 2B if he achieves a decent OBP.
“Span
Bartlett
Mauer
Morneau
Hunter
Cuddyer
Kubel
Crede
Sanchez”
Looks like the World Series Team we’ll never have.
I think this is the best lineup the Twins can put out there with the personnel that they have.
I hope Gardy sticks with it, except to sit Kubel against lefties.
Harris and Redmond are good on the bench, but I would like to see the likes of Tolbert and Pridie replace Young and Buscher. This would add some speed and also improve the fielding.
Young and Buscher could be removed from the 40 man roster to open up some roster spots, in case of a waiver deal of some kind later in the season.
“Ben says:
July 29th, 2009 at 6:34 pm
Keith Law recently ranked the 20-year-old Alderson the 26th-best prospect in all of baseball.”
The Twins have NO ONE rated that high.
Aaron Hicks is probably in the 40-50 range.
No Twins pitchers are even close.
Casilla can’t even bunt his way on. Gardenfire is in an ugly situation having to deal with castoffs and a team that closely resembles the Pirates of the NL.
thry, are you reasonably sure that there are starters out there in your second tier of starters who would be an upgrade over Perkins besides Washburn?
Kazmir is the only hope now?
What is the report on the prospect of Revere? I have heard his defense (in particular his arm) leaves a little something to be desired. True?
Lemme put that this way: At the same point in their careers, Revere has had a higher OBP and BA than Span and a much higher speed (both on the bases and at the outfield). Their arms are exactly the same (Ramen noodles) and Span had slightly more home-run power. Revere has a Gomez-like speed both in the outfield and the bases with a slightly less than Mauer (when he was the same age) selectivity at the plate.
He projects as a good defensive CF with no arm and a threat on the bases. Whether he will be Otis Nixon or Vince Coleman or Willy McGee or Kirby Puckett has yet to be determined…
Kieth Law of ESPN had Alderson rated as his 25th best minor league player for this year…….If I remeber correctly the Twins did not have anyone in the top 100, I could be wrong on that but I’ll try and look up the artical on ESPN.
Should have said 26th best not 25th.
bill smith sure knows how to make friends….what an effen loser he is…bill please just fire yourself……
romer,
there are starters, but that second tier hold a lot of questions. If one clicks he would be better than Perkins. These guys are the likes of Bronson Aroyo. You never know…
On another note… from Keith Law’s blog regarding the Lee trade..
“For the Phillies, this looks like a steal. In Cliff Lee, they acquire one of the best pitchers in the American League over the past 18 months while retaining their top two prospects and trading four guys who all have serious question marks.”
Go ahead and swap out the Mets for the Phillies and Johan Santana for Cliff Lee and he could be talking about the Twins, eh?
BA has Hicks, Revere and Ramos in the top 100..
Pirates suck and need help everyehere you would think you could package some prospects together
David-
First, I wasnn’t trying to attack you.
Second, I was specifically speaking about a mid-season trade–as an honest attempt (i.e. not going after Everyday Eddie) to make the team better.
You are right that lots of people say the Santana trade was bad, and the Garza/Bartlett trade was probably worse. There are some differences, however, with these trades: they were not mid-season, and the Santana trade was obviously not an attempt to improve the ball club.
Lots of people were upset about the Santana trade because the Twins didn’t resign their best pitcher; lots of people complain about how terrible the Rays trade was, but at least BS was trying with that one. He traded from a (perceived at the time) strength to a (perceived at the time) weakness.
What those trades were not, is going after a missing piece of the puzzle half way through the year to try to win a World Series. Its much easier to know what pieces you are lacking at mid-season than at the start of the season. That is my point, I guess, and I think that most people just want to see some life out of the front office around the deadline.
Anyway, I rambled on–hopefully it made some sort of sense 
Tough break not aquiring Sanchez, but life goes on.
I know LaVelle has said he does not see this team making a move for anybody, but do any of you fans see the Twins making a move for a starter or some bullpen help??
“Whether he will be Otis Nixon or Vince Coleman or Willy McGee or Kirby Puckett has yet to be determined…”
I’d settle for Kenny Lofton.
:)>
I’d settle for Kenny Lofton.
Hey, add him to the equation between McGee and Puck.
The thing is this…trades are not the be all and end all and we all know it. However, given the call from the players for more help, given that BS says that the Pohlads are willing to spend, given that the team has a new stadium, given that the team is still in the hunt for a division title, given that the attendence has been good, given that the fans are engaged and excited for a reason for hope and given that the team has several holes to fill it would seem to make sense to make something happen. I am a believer in keeping most of your own talent but a reasonable look would show that all championship teams are a mixture. No minor league system can be expected to develop a championship team all on it’s own and in the same year. You take your best and fill out the holes by trading and signing to fill the remaining holes. That is where the Twins have failed. They have produced some very good talent but have failed in trying to fill in the holes through free agents and trades. Just my take.
Gardy is getting back to the basics. He’s looking for pitching and defense.
Span, Gomez and Cuddyer is the outfield Gardy wanted from before the season began.
Morneau, Casilla, Crede and Punto are the infielders he wanted from day one.
Punto was signed to play shortstop. That is what Gardy said when Punto signed. Punto has always been Gardy’s first choice to play shortstop.
The team is finally starting to take form. It’s the form Gardy wanted in the first place.
“These guys are the likes of Bronson Aroyo. You never know…”
I’d go for it if I’m Smith. Need starting pitching insurance more than ever with Liriano’s thing today.
And as someone already posted, it could allow for Perkins to fill the hole in the BP.
Sanchez traded for one mediocre prospect to Giants…Why can’t we ever pull the trigger?
“an honest attempt (i.e. not going after Everyday Eddie) to make the team better”
everyday eddie has given up zero runs, earned or otherwise, in his last 12 appearances on a team with a 56-42 record.
I’m kind of glad I wasn’t around here for all the hysteria when the Sanchez deal was finalized. I’ve been saying I would love Sanchez but just don’t see that the Twins matched up well with what the Pirates were needing.
The Twins only hope was if the Bucs would agree to quantity over quality and accept 2-3 lesser prospects instead of the blue chip that SF made available. The Giants simply have a better and deeper organization right now.
Not exactly a surprising development and I don’t think it means the Twins aren’t making an effort… just that SF had what the Pirates wanted and were willing to part with it.
The Twins got 2 minor leaguers a few years ago for Castillo who didn’t amount to anything….we couldn’t give up one or two guys who probably wont amount to anything to get a 3 time all star?
t98-
I have heard a few times that Revere may be switching positions (to 2B)…. I know very little of the minors, but is there any validity to this statement? That could be pretty exciting, having a slick-hitting MI prospect…. if he can field, anyway. He sounds like a great athlete, but how often to prospects move from the outfield to the infield?
Thanks-
Detroit up 1-0 on Granderson’s leadoff homerun.
Revere throws left.
the Giants paid a hefty price for Sanchez, and kudos to Pittsburgh. I am not sure the Twins could have packaged enough to beat Alderson without giving up Hick, Revere and maybe Manship which would have been way too much for a year and two months of Freddy Sanchez.
I hope that they focus on pitching. It is good news that it didn’t take Drabek and Brown to get Cliff Lee that means that lesser pitchers likely won’t fetch as many top quality prospects.
Get Grabow and a serviceable SP and take your chances.
What the chances we make a deal for Scutaro (sp) and Downs, Marco has had a better year than Sanchez anyway..
Revere throws right.
Great inning for Duensing…
“everyday eddie has given up zero runs, earned or otherwise, in his last 12 appearances on a team with a 56-42 record.”
Great point, he is having a good year, but are you really suggesting that EDE was the missing piece of the equation last year?
(Not trying to get into a pissing contest here )
Twins’ farm system is being highly overrated here. At this point there is no comp to Alderson in the system. Beyond Ramos, Hicks and possibly Valencia few prospects carry any significant weight with other organizations.
Duensing 9 pitches and three outs not bad kid.
Adding a 2nd baseman to this team is not going to win a world series, may not even be enough to win the central with the condition our rotation is in. We need to add 2 starting pitchers but I doubt we have the bullets to do that. Lets assume we win the central and the Yankees/Red Sox win the wild card…do we really think that we could beat them if we had added a 2nd baseman.
Baker vs CC
Liriano VS Burnett
Blackburn/Perkins/Swarzak VS Pettitte
Or
Baker vs Beckett
Liriano vs Lester
Blackbrun/Perkins/Swarzak VS Penny/Smoltz/Bucholtz/Wakefield.
This is so like the Twins, four or five players away from putting together a contending team, and they don’t make the deals!!
Bunting Twin,
“Revere throws left.”
“Revere throws right.”
Gotta love that versatility!
anyone else see eddie g versus jimmy ley last night?
The Giants always give away their prospects for old timers. That’s why they are usually the cellar dwellers.
Twins are smarter.
“Great point, he is having a good year, but are you really suggesting that EDE was the missing piece of the equation last year?”
just saying that adding and subtracting players is largely a crap shoot. look at adam everett — last year a bum who got run outa town, this year the everyday tigers shortstop. you just never know.
Bunting Twins, except for the fact that the Giants are currently leading the NL Wild Card this season.
I agree that the Farm System looks to be overtated right now. So, the question is…what is being done to change things areound? Have any heads rolled? Have any new hires or changes in philosophy occured? Or is this just a game of chance and the Twins have had bad luck?
Did anyone honestly think we’d get Sanchez?? This GM will never be able to pull off a trade for a caliber player…We won’t even get Scutaro…Let the GM tell everyone that Gee the Pirates wanted too much…Hell they GAVE away Wilson and Snell…Why weren’t we in on that??
WJ,
“This is so like the Twins, four or five players away from putting together a contending team, and they don’t make the deals!!”
I disagree.
The Twins may be four or five players away from being two or three players away from putting together a contending team.
“Revere throws left.”
“Revere throws right.”
No eraser once you post.
Daved, a serious question aand not trying to be argumentative…given your assessment of where the Twins are at what would you do for this year and beyond?
Bunting Twins,
You had ‘er covered.
One can almost promise no one is going to be traded for this year. What pressure does this cheap organization have on it? None, other than a few quotes from its acceptably-vocal players who are not playing contract years.
I have heard a few times that Revere may be switching positions (to 2B)…. I know very little of the minors, but is there any validity to this statement?
Not much validity. He was drafted as a second baseman (that’s probably why the ‘rumors’) but switched to the OF since day 1 in his pro career.
well done billy, just lost an allstar 2nd baseman what a friggin idiot!!!
Cuddys up. Here comes an out.
I would like to trade the three whiners. The Twins won’t do it, so the point is moot.
That said, I like the team as it is. Tweak the bench and call it good.
We know that it’ll be a miracle if we make a single trade let alone two. We need a starter more than a 2B.
With Sanchez out of the way, BS can now focus on getting us that starter.
Two days left Bill. Tick. Tick. Tick.
Bunting Twins, that might be the dumbest thing I have ever heard in my life. Yeah go ahead and trade your three all-stars who actually want to win and see where that leaves you.
Mr. (not)Clutch Cuddy does it again! Should have traded him straight up for Sanchez. Pirates wouldn’t be dumb enough to make that deal.
Lexi hit .280 plus last season. The guy can play. What fair-weather fans. Every player hits a slump. Give him a chance.
I agree with Ben. It would be stupid to trade the twins back to the stone age
Who are the three whiners to trade?
Agree with you Ben, re: Bunting Twins…but that is not his first, nor second, nor God knows how many.
they should show some video of the pohlad household with everyone celebrating with thousand dollar champangne and searching to purchase their own 200 ft yachts. f this
“Two days left Bill. Tick. Tick. Tick.”
Tick. Tick. Tick Tick………phffffftt!
Rofl Cuddy isnt the problem Span should have been sent a long time before Kubel got his hit……if you dont notice when watching other teams guys with speed get on they steal bases…..FIRE GARDY HIS TACTICS ARE NOT WORKING.
“Yeah go ahead and trade your three all-stars who actually want to win and see where that leaves you.”
Without whiners?
Forget it, Ben. The three smAll-Stars aren’t going to be traded. You will get to listen to them piss and moan.
Granderson with a 2 run shot in the second to put Detroit up 3-0.
But, an AA pitcher for a recent batting title winner, who happens to play a position where we have a big hole, seems like a no-brainer.
Cuddy is gonna hit .275 with 25-30 HRs and 90 RBIs. Yes we should jettison that kinda success right away. lol
Bunting Twins, you consider them whiners because they actually said something to the local media about the fact that the FO never makes a much needed trade around the deadline. The truth hurts, doesn’t it?
Ben W,
“the pohlad household with everyone celebrating with thousand dollar champangne and searching to purchase their own 200 ft yachts. f this”
Who is jealous and bitter about their own lives because of @#$%@#$% rich people?
THEY are not capable of making normal people that unhappy and bitter.
You are doing that to yourself!
Can”t blame the Twins for not trading #4 propsect in the system or #5 , #6 for what the Pirates gave up.
Lots of 2nd base out there.
Adam Kennedy comes to mind…
Win Twins!
Walter, except for the fact that we had nobody of equal value to offer them.
How about this Duensing kid……
“Who are the three whiners to trade?”
The three whiners were reported by La Velle to be Morneau, Mauer and Nathan.
I just would like to trade them, because I like tough guy players who lead the charge, not crybabies.
It’s never going to happen, so forget it. The crybabies are staying.
Yeah, that Mauer, Morneau and Nathan just never shut up do they? They are so outspoken. Oh brother.
“But, an AA pitcher for a recent batting title winner, who happens to play a position where we have a big hole, seems like a no-brainer.”
Too bad the Twins don’t have a AA pitcher that the Pirates want.
Too bad MVP didn’t come through in the 1st. Duensing needed that.
Romer the kids is throwing strikes seems unafraid. Let’s get him some runs this inning with Punto coming up it is guaranteed you know.
“Bunting Twins, you consider them whiners because they actually said something to the local media about the fact that the FO never makes a much needed trade around the deadline. The truth hurts, doesn’t it?”
It doesn’t hurt me, Ben. I like the team as it stands. Even with the crybaby whiners.
Bunting Twins, so if you like the team as it stands, why do you want to trade the All-Stars?
I think the reason Young and Harris aren’t in the lineup is that they are going to e traded. Only reason I can see.
Bunting….give it up, you are getting very sickening.
So BT, you’re not disappointed that BS hasn’t been trading?
Cuddy has had plenty of clutch this year. He had the 2 run HR two nights ago that won the game!
I’m all for criticism, but the whining is a little over the top tonight.
How much time should you put in, deciding whether or not to jettison Mauer, Morneau and Nathan?
It’s obviously worth the time.
Okay now that both Wilson and Sanchez have been traded can we take a look at Brian Roberts.
LEN-3 — what had the Cubs offered for him last off season? Any reason the Twins can’t get him?
Also I heard that Doc Holiday didn’t have us on his list of trade options. Too bad. I would have loved to see the Twins offer a package of Slowey(yes I know he is hurt but Toronto is looking towards next year), Casilla, and two top prospects for Doc and Scutaro.
Maybe it wouldn’t be enough but it would have been worth a shot.
Great at bat by the “Whipping Boy”
Nice hit for Alexi
SUCK IT, SANCHEZ!!!!!
“Bunting….give it up, you are getting very sickening.”
Happy to oblige, DrDon. There is nothing left to be said about it.
Bert just told us “once the trading deadline is over and the Twins don’t get a second baseman”
Wow!! the bottom of the lineup might be mostly responsible for the sweep here.
Gomez is looking pretty good lately.
As far as Sanchez, hey, it seems pretty likely that the player that they wanted from the Twins wasn’t someone that they were willing to give up, or perhaps, the players that the Twins were offering just plain weren’t good enough. Dang, here I thought we could package Punto, Crain and that bag of balls that so many people seem to want to get rid of so bad
Piranhas!
man.
I really dislike Bill Smith.
Unless of course he makes a good trade that takes us over the hump.
then he poops gold
Cuddyer has been part of the solution and not the problem. The Twins are lucky to have him right now.
Harris is not playing because Contreras would have him bailing out on the sidearm.
Gardy is a @#$%king genius!
Lets get back to Punto and Harris, can we…..You all know Harris is not going to start with Crede back at 3rd. Logical for him to move over to SS and Punto to 2nd but makes just too much logic. They want to give Casilla all of the chances possible. I like Harris at SS and Punto at 2nd myself.
Why can’t the Twins win the its current lineup and team of 25?
think how the sux fans must be reacting when a .167 hitter raps a double driving in 2 runs.
“So BT, you’re not disappointed that BS hasn’t been trading?”
No. I really like the team as it stands.
“Why can’t the Twins win the its current lineup and team of 25″
they need help in the bullpen over a MI
Ben W-
I see your unemployment extention must of ran out huh? Like him or not, Carl made himself a billionare out of nothing.
“Carl made himself a billionare out of nothing.”
And his son made himself a billionare just by being born.
easy!
romer says:July 29th, 2009 at 7:45 pm
“So BT, you’re not disappointed that BS hasn’t been trading?”
WHO exactly would you trade? Would you trade Swarzak for Sanchez?
IF not, why not?
Regards,
“”"”"Bunting Twins says:
July 29th, 2009 at 7:53 pm
“So BT, you’re not disappointed that BS hasn’t been trading?”
No. I really like the team as it stands.”"”"”
Then why in hell are you asking BS to trade the “whiners”? Get a clue, little one.
We are going to watch Crede, Punto, Casilla and Gomez come alive in the final two months and help the other guys win the division.
touche’
Doc,
You aren’t paying attention.
Climb the wall, Denard.
GoFar,
Point taken, but his kids did what to earn their money? Oh thats right they did some house chores for a couple million and kept their rooms clean.
Could Dick help out Mrs. Nathan a little bit here, please!??
Justin you are such a caring individual. Dick did pick up the slack and got the save though.
Too bad MVP failed again. Coulda been a comfortable lead for Duensing.
Maybe he doesn’t need it.
Scutaro is also availble and would be a good pickup at ss or second, I think Washburn is out of the question because with the M’s now looking like they were huge buyers. I think getting Scutaro and trying to get the reliever from Oakland Weurtz would possibly be the only moves able to be made. The SP trade market for 2nd tier Sp looks pretty bare though..
Cliff Lee & Ben Francisco, ace pitcher and starting OF, got traded for minor leaguers. The Twins can’t get a nibble on offers, either the other teams are afraid of getting screwed by the Twins FO or the teams prospects aren’t all they are cracked up to be.
Ben W-
Point taken. I guess I’m just overly frustrated like the rest of you guys.
Sorry to take it out on you. I just wish we knew for sure that they told BS he could spend and it’s him making the decision not to do it.
Scutaro would be a nice pickup imho. He is a solid bat and defender.
mackdaddy says:
July 29th, 2009 at 8:07 pm
Cliff Lee & Ben Francisco, ace pitcher and starting OF, got traded for minor leaguers. The Twins can’t get a nibble on offers, either the other teams are afraid of getting screwed by the Twins FO or the teams prospects aren’t all they are cracked up to be.
That was when Terry Ryan was GM. After the last two deals by BS, other teams should be jumping at the chance.
I think maybe players don’t want to come here now. DY was supposed to be huge, Gardy has him buried on the bench. Harris is way better than Punto or Casilla, yet look who plays. Morales should be on the big club, yet Red Dog is the back up catcher. Maybe guys figure Gardy’s got “his guys” and don’t want to come here to sit on the bench.
Too bad the Twins don’t have a AA pitcher that the Pirates want.
And just how do you know that, sane?
BTW…bunting twins is just c-r-a-i-g by another name.
Ignore him and he’ll go away for a while, or get banned again only to resurface under (yet) another name.
Kudos, though to you, c-r-a-i-g for dropping the whole third person schtick.
The Twins don’t have great prospects sans Hicks. Valencia is the only third basemen the team has so he’s “untouchable” so it’s hard to trade anything when you don’t have squat to give up.
You are 100% correct mackdaddy. Include Cuddy as one of “his guys”
WOW how bad is that Dick and Bert interview the County Comish on the new park while the Twins brass get a free pass why don’t Dick and Bert have Smith on and ask him why he has not done anything to help this team in 2 years and ask him where D. Young is and about the worst trade in twins history but Dick and Bert don’t have the guts to ask Smith tough questions. The joke is on us.
What are the odds Crain loses the game for the Twins?
1-1
5-1
10-1
20-1
Cuddy is on a pace to set a record this season: Most men left on base… Gardy wants to help him set it. That’s that. And he likes his magic tricks
Tim Alderson for Freddie Sanchez.
We couldn’t top that?
Four second-tier prospects for Cy Young winner Cliff Lee.
We couldn’t top that?
There’s absolutely no doubt that Terry “The Cowardly Lion” Ryan is still running the show from behind the scenes. No doubt whatsoever.
Mauer’s so gone in 2011.
Who’s coming in for Duensing?
about the worst trade in twins history
That would be Bruno for Herr
@LaLA72 We couldn’t top that?
No, the Twins couldn’t. Twins don’t have pitching prospects who touch Alderson or Crazy Carlos Carrasco.
t98,
I agree - worst trade!
daddymack,
You are putting up some wise words tonight. Keep them coming.
GoFar,
no biggie, just frusterated because whoever it was, be it the owners or the FO i believe it really was a huge mistake. I believe they will lose mauer if they dont do something (joe basically came out and said it). i mean if that isnt motivation enough to give a little more than you want, then i dont know wtf is going on.
Mr. (not)Clutch Cuddy does it again! Trade him, go with last years outfield (when Cuddy was hurt, again) it’ll be better defense and DY, given the chance, will replace Cuddy’s production, and get the clutch hits.
Ahhhhh…. yes 2011 - Morneau and a bunch of young (read:CHEAP) kids will challenge for the Central division title only to fall short in the last week because the team couldn’t bridge the young (read:CHEAP) starting pitching to the future HOF’r Joe Nathan.
Another great move by Gardy, Duensing’s pitching a great game, take him out. Fire Gardy Now!
el combusto enters the game
MackDaddy, no way do the Indians make that trade in their Division. To bad, but it is just the way it works. As far as Sanchez, well, who honestly know’s what they wanted? If you noticed, Sanchez isn’t exactly a power hitter, but he is getting paid pretty dang well for a singles hitter. The Pirates didn’t want to carry the salary, and they were looking to dump it on another team, for a prospect. I don’t know what prospect/s they were asking of the Twins, but as of right now, the Twins have very, very little pitching depth, and if you noticed, that is apparently what they were looking for.
The New and improved Crain…just what the doctor ordered…
Sanchez to SF for their #4 prospect, a AA pitcher. Wilson and Snell gone to Seattle for Ceneno, Clement and three others. On and on it seems to go each year while our FO watches as the team scraps, competes and often beats more talented AL Central foes only to fall short at the end.
Memo to the Pohlads and Billy Smith: The stadium will be ready next year. Our 3 All-Stars have called you out for the purpose of adding some additional reinforcements from teams looking to deal. We seriously lack depth at 2B and on the pitching staff. Please wake up Mr. Smith, work those phones and call Toronto, Arizona, or San Diego, heck, anyone. Nothing short of a starting IFer and immediate pitching help. The future is now and this team is built to win now. Also, how far are you into the Mauer negotiations? Kiss Mauer good bye after 2010 because he will be deemed “too expensive” because we waited too long and never seem to care at trade deadlines in July. Oh, and one more thing, call up Morales because he can flat out hit a baseball.
thry is right on with the Bruno/Herr trade being the worst in history.
Eric Milton for Carlos Silva and Nick Punto. Hands down.
the twins should trade for Justin Ducherer from the A’s. he is an ace who would come cheap.
FireGardy,
that is not happening. Cuddyer is going for an MLB record: He leads the majors on runners left on base (4 tonight). Gardy will play him every day so he will get it.
Ben W-
I hear ya, I’m just sick of what’s going on. But, what can I do, turn into an Astro fan? No way!
Umm..I can’t see so well, my contacts aren’t in. Is Jesse freaking Crain really in the game right now??
Duensing was only at 64 pitches, He was pitching great except for two mistakes. And bring in Jessie. Well, at least we took two out of three.
Seriously right now after the trades have happened, the Twins couldn’t have done any of them. While the Mariners gave up little the Twins have no one with as much value as Clement, who is right now at his lowest value ever.
jessie crain at it again, put him in when you are down 10 runs not, a 2-2 tie in the 6th. come on gardy
Crains return from the minors and Grudzie will be tht Twins moves for the year. Exciting, huh? I do like Grudzie and think he is good hitter but at 39 who knows what he has left.
wow ill eat my words, crain well done
Easy easy, TDH.
He is still awful
thrylos98 says:
July 29th, 2009 at 8:41 pm
FireGardy,
that is not happening. Cuddyer is going for an MLB record: He leads the majors on runners left on base (4 tonight). Gardy will play him every day so he will get it.
Get a clue Thyroid, who is gonna take Cuddy’s place, DY??? Are you kidding me??? He sucks at what he does, almost as bad as what you do.
PG Jeff,
Maybe the 3 All Stars could contribute tonight…OR are they pouting?
In case you didn’t notice Morneau has ALREADY left 4 runners on. I guess he want’s a new contract.
Regards,
I never said nor thought that the Twins would get Cliff Lee, I’m just thinking out loud that other teams are asking for our supposed best prospects then trading for less with other teams. Wilson and Snell for Cedeno, Clement and 3 nobody’s? Get real. Pittsburgh wouldn’t take Punto/Casilla, Morales (who has no future with the Twins), and 2 or 3 nobody’s? That is basically what the Mariners gave them. And Philly gave up no one for CY Lee and Francisco, so Cleveland might have dealed with anybody!!!
About this trade inactivity. Here is my take:
this team is being run by the same old people who ran it in the olden days when “wining” was not a priority, but keeping prospects (see: cheap MLB players) was. Smith is a titular figurehead. Unless this organization gets rid of the “mortgaging the future” mentality (hey, the “future” has been “now” in several seasons recently) and gets rid of those who propagate that mentality, forget about the Twins wining anything (other that a division title here or there) soon…
It seems that what most are saying is an idictment of the minor league system of the Twins. Given that they apparently have so little that is wanted or that they can afford to part with, what if anything have you guys seen to rectify this problem? Are the Twins even admitting that it is a problem? I am in Alaska and miss all of the radio and TV shows.
@dana Are the Twins even admitting that it is a problem? I am in Alaska and miss all of the radio and TV shows.
The local media never questions the Twins or asks them questions any easier than pure softballs, so “NO.”
That is too bad. Sounds like our mational media with the government. Clearly if the Twins have so few prospects then there is a problem tht needs to be addresses.
So. bunt Gomez to give the RBI machines of Punto and Casilla the chance to drivbe in the run.
2010 line-up:
C Mauer
1B Morneau
2B Casilla - again - ugh
SS Punto - again - ugh
3B Valencia - too young, good upside
LF Span
CF Gomez
RF Cuddy - again
DH Kubel
Young, Harris, Morales/Ramos, Plouffe/Tolbert/Buscher.
OUCH…no improvement here.
It is logical baseball and Casilla comes through. Gardy is a genius.
Whelp..That’s it. I bet Bill Smith uses the last couple of games as his reasoning for not making a move to help the infield.
Funny part is, why do I have a suspicion that ole’ Alexi and LNP will go back to their old ways after this week is over?
dana,
the manager of the millennium sure has a solid strategy in his mind with that move… don’t question him.
See
So. bunt Gomez to give the RBI machines of Punto and Casilla the chance to drivbe in the run.
I think Bill Smith is thanking the lord that Casilla is having this kind of game today. Also, way to go Casilla. Also, I wanted Sanchez more.
this next day and half will be interesting to see who the twins will “try” and get
Casilla had to have a huge game. There was just too much Casilla bashing on this blog for him not to have a huge game.
thrylos,
Watch the game…IT WORKED AGAIN!!!
Regards,
ps: It will be interesting to see IF they get any help from the RICH crybabies.
As a Twins fan, I can say good for Alexi for his game today.
And as a Twins fan, if no move is made to upgrade the middle infield by Friday, I will be beyond nauseous.
Once again the bottom third is killing the Sox three game in a row. lol
Worst trade in Twins history?
I’ll take Rod Carew for Dave Engle, Paul Hartzell, Brad Havens, and Ken Landreaux.
The first three are dreck.
Landreux spent 2 years with the Twins, then was traded to the Dodgers for Kelly Snider, Mickey Reeves and Mickey Hatcher.
Pretty much all dreck.
So the Twins traded HOFer Rod Carew for 2 seasons of Landreaux and Mickey Hatcher.
That dwarfs Bruno-Herr IMO.
romer,
Gardy’s hunch or blind faith in the face of mounds of evidence to the contrary?
Don’t get me wrong I’m glad it’s worked tonight & last night.
By the way Harris had a hit last night too so it’s not like he stunk the Dome out.
Tigers leading 8-4 top of the sixth…
Remember, we also get Boof back next year, who has to go to make room for him? And Neshek, but that’s one to the good.
The big 5 for the Twins are 1 for 12 so far.
I’m actually hoping that this game will convince another team to take Casilla on in a trade. A man can dream.
Yes, I bow humbly at his alter Thrylos. As a coach I have the same strategy but given the BA’s of those two I was skeptical. Oh me of little faith.
BJ that is the problem. I hope this is the beginning of a long winning streak and the beginning of some fundamentally sound baseball for the rest of the year. But every time I have thought that this year they have reverted to a .500 team. I am hoping like crazy that is not the case this time but will not hold my breathe.
1 for 13……
The Pusilla tandem is on fire, Freddie “330 OBP” Who?? Marcu “Career Year” Scutaro Who??
Maybe we can get Freddie Sanchez from the SF Giants for Crain and Buscher.
Watch the game…IT WORKED AGAIN!!!
I invested my life savings in the lottery…and IT WORKED.
Must have been a smart move.
It will be interesting to see IF they get any help from the RICH crybabies
Yeah, it will be interesting to look back at the end of the season and see IF they got any help from the rich crybabies.
Will Mauer be batting over .300 on August 31?
Regards,
Right kirby91, there was a good case for starting Harris tonight as well.
I am assuming the rich crybabies remarks are sarcasm.
How about we say this….If Bill Smith again fails to make a decent move at the deadline for the second straight year, and if the Twins once again come very close but miss the postseason when it’s all said and done for the second straight year, he should be fired, plain and simple. But, since it’s Minnesota, he will be fine and dandy.
you know what I hate?
When people say calling up a guy from AAA is like making a move especially when the guy(s) in AAA are far from any prospect…
When a player comes back from an injury, like Span did earlier, then it is just like making a trade.
Casilla and Punto have both hit around .280 in the majors, that means they can do it again. [/Bill Smith Logic]
Pusilla POWER!
Well, I must say Crain is looking good tonight
Joe, I know what you mean but I am betting that will be said of Grudzie.
sux to be a sux fan
Well, in the case of Crain, the guy that was sent down, sure didn’t look like the guy that is pitching tonight. Maybe, in this case, it is just like making a trade
We can hope, can’t we?
jessie crain got it done, but all i saw him throw was straight fastballs, thats it. Several of those outs were smoked, i dont understand why he refuses to use his other pitches, you would think the mastermind gardy would be calling the pitches.
Meat of the order how about breaking this thing open? Even GAS CAN got the job done for two innings!
Sorry, Me Too. The Sux look bad, not Crain looking good.
Where’s the movement on his pitches?
Another inning to wait now for the run producer to get up again. Hurry up get rid of these slugs. Seriously Cuddyer is due though.
BS traded the bad (Punto, Casilla, Crain) for the good (Punto, Casilla, Crain), at least until August 1st or 2nd (after the no-waiver period expires).
The worst game of the year for Morneau?
Monry looked awful.
Mackdaddy, you’re on fire!
Nobody says we HAVE to sit on a one run lead.
“How about we say this….If Bill Smith again fails to make a decent move at the deadline for the second straight year, and if the Twins once again come very close but miss the postseason when it’s all said and done for the second straight year, he should be fired, plain and simple. But, since it’s Minnesota, he will be fine and dandy.”
BJ,
there is no question if i were mauer i would request a trade or leave outright after 10′.
Hmmmmmmmm, a post-deadline trade, huh mackdaddy?
“Who could it be now?”
Of course we will hear: the deadline does not mean that a deal can not gt done. We will scour the waiver wires and work our tails off, as we have been, to get a deal that is a perfect fit for this team.
1 for 16.
Mauer would have to hit less than 28 for 145 (.193) to hit below .300 by August 31st. That is assuming he plays in every single game and gets five at bats.
Somebody tell Morneau that in three days it will be August, not September.
It’s eerie how spot on that will be, Dana.
It will be interesting to see what Mauer and Morneau’s number will be over the next week or so and see how they add up since they made their public comments about needing Billy to step. While right in logic and emotion I wonder if that sort of spotlight pressure from off the field doesn’t sit well with two pretty quite guys.
There was movement on some of his pitches. He threw alot of sliders in the 6th. How short your memory must be.
Just to show the love - Mauer, Morneau, Kubel & Cuddy are 4-37 in this series and the Twinks are in position to sweep! If the rest of the line-up had hit like this all year I think the team would be running away with this division.
isnt it sad that our reliever (guerrier) has more wins than our starting pitcher (liriano)
Getting Guerrier back pitching well, is just like making a trade!!!
gatty,
He’s under .300 for July (barely) and his trajectory from May is sharply down since.
I suspect he’s much closer to .300 than .358 by then.
Regards,
Goodbye Mauer it was fun while it lasted and as soon as he leaves Morneau will be asking for a trade as well. Bill Smith is the worst GM in baseball. I wish he would pull a stunt like the Mets VP of player personel and be fired. This is ridiculous.
Sending one of our guys to play for another team, and getting one of their guys to come play for us, is just like making a trade!
Over the last 14 games Morneau has hit .321 with an OPS of 1.1 with 5 HRs. I think the guy has earned a little slack…
nice contribution there Morneau.
MVP doesn’t take his AB’s out to his defense!
Chicago beefcake players get upset and homer to deep center.
Twins throwing strikes tonight. 74/100
I have $100 that says that Mauer will be hitting better than .300 by the end of August. Any takers?
nice play by Morneau
Twins throwing strikes tonight. 74/100
That’s like making a trade!!
You don’t get it do you gatty?
Casilla got a big hit tonight. HE’S THE BEST!!!
Mauer and Morneau haven’t gotten a big hit tonight. THEY SUCK!!!
Astute fans rarely look past a player’s last plate appearance, and NEVER look past tonight’s game.
Mauer’s career batting average in August is .299, so he’ll probably hit around .329 using that number. Probably a bit higher since he won’t bat in every game, nor will he get 5 at bats in every game.
Wonder if this comment by d-bag Tim McCarver during the All-Star game made it’s way back to Morneau. To paraphrase:
“In addition to being great hitters, the AL has some of the great defensive first basemen in the game: Texiera, Pena, Youkilis…”
What should be the Twins everyday line-up
C Mauer
1B Morneau
2B Casilla
SS Harris
3B Crede
LF Span
CF Gomez
RF Cuddy
DH Kubel
Package Young, Punto and a pitcher for something. Package Morales, Buscher and a pitcher for something. Both of these packages should get something, after seeing the trades being made today.
did anyone hear John Gordon on radio say, we finally made a move. did he make a mistake or not.
Casilla player of game?
Don’t get cute, Joe N.
Man, looked like Denard coulda got that on his shoes.
Casilla: .298 .371 .375 .746
hitter in the minors. He’s not a great hitter in AAA, so his sucking at the majors isn’t a surprise. unlike Dickbert can we stop salivating over one good game?
USAFchief is my hero.
Lead-off man on 3 innings in a row. Yikes, that’ll cost ya sooner or later.
This Beckham kid is getting awfully annoying.
MackDaddy, which pitchers do you intend on moving?
Both of these packages should get something
sure… especially the Punto and Buscher one: a hangup on the other line.
Joe earning his pay again tonight.
Mauer missed April, so really it’s like he’s batting in June here, so in August he’ll be batting in July. So in October…um, nevermind.
Looks like the cardiac kids are at it again…
Read this from FanGraph and see how silly the Sanchez trade was for SF and than tell me how the Twins could made a better trade for him.
Freddy Sanchez for… Who?! Seriously?by Marc Hulet - July 29, 2009 · Filed under Daily Graphings
One of the most enjoyable parts of writing for a site like Fangraphs is “hearing” the banter between writers behind the scenes. After news broke of the Pittsburgh-San Francisco deal that saw second baseman Freddy Sanchez head from the Pirates to the Giants, these comments were made from some of Fangraphs’ finest:
“What the hell?”
“The best pitching prospect of the day doesn’t get traded for Cliff Lee, but for Freddy Sanchez. Awesome. Nice job, Cleveland.”
“My lord, Sabean, what are you doing?”
Just when you thought it was safe to love San Francisco prospects again, general manager Brian Sabean tossed away the club’s second best pitching prospect for an injury-prone, veteran second baseman in his free agent year (although he has an $8 million option that is way too high). Oh, and the Giants organization just gave away its third best pitching prospect (Scott Barnes) to the Indians for a league-average first baseman. Madison Bumgarner is suddenly very, very lonely.
Alderson is just 20 years old and he’s holding his own in double-A. The 6′6′ right-hander also has above-average command and control for his age. He can throw in the low-90s and has a plus curveball and a developing changeup. In 13 double-A starts, Alderson allowed 76 hits in 72.2 innings of work, while posting a walk rate of just 1.73 BB/9 and a strikeout rate of 5.70 K/9 (which will no doubt rise as he gains experience). The 22nd pick of the 2007 draft had hit a rough patch lately with three straight “meh” starts, but, again, he’s 20 years old and pitching in double-A with exceptional command and control for his age.
Sanchez is currently hitting .296/.334/.442 with six homers and five stolen bases in 355 at-bats. The 31-year-old could slot into the No. 2 hole in the lineup for San Francisco. Defensively, he plays a solid but unspectacular second base, which will help fill a season-long hole for the Giants. Sanchez definitely has an edge on defense, but is his offense really that much better than current second baseman Juan Uribe’s triple-slash line of .284/.314/.431? Is the slight offensive edge plus Sanchez’ glove really worth Alderson?
Sanchez is a nice complementary player, but he definitely should not have cost an A-level pitching prospect. In five years, this (panic?) trade is going to hurt.
P.S. The Pirates just got more value for Sanchez than Ricciardi could drum up for Halladay. That has to burn.
I say get Sanchez from SF for Bonser. they may not remember …
Bit of tension in the dome and on this blog…
Beckham is a stud and will probably be a thorn in our side for a long time. Dang it.
You have to give up something of value to get something of value. Packaging up your two or three of your biggest turds ain’t gonna do it…
Why does FSN always show that behind the catcher view. That is literally like a wasted pitch for the audience…
This is how Eddie used to get his saves.
Only makes sense, Duensing does OK, Nathan blows the save.
Twins baseball!
And packing Punto would require the Twins to put Hicks into the deal just to make up for the awfulness.
Alls well that ends well. Nice day of rest for the Twins tommorrow…
Have you been watching the trades that have happened today? There is no give to get anymore. Its all salary and potential and who can blow more smoke up the other guys a$$. Value is all about arbitration years, how long can you control a players earnings, and the Twins have lots of young players that are not arbitration eligible, hence controllable, for years, and should be attractive in trades.
This team is so cheap, it makes Mother Teresa look like Madonna. how can any of you stand it?!
Great 3 game series…now to see if this is one step forward to be followed by 2 steps back. They need to build on this now and not let up.
Nice game For Duensing and Jesse and Matt and a good win for the Twins.
Who do ya go after, mackdaddy?
Well at least Nathan threw mostly strikes too. 11/21
Beckham needs to be taught RESPECT - - a few under the chin pitches (or plunks where it hurts) and treat him like a rookie.
USAF Chief (9:30)
I agree in the longer view. The “Sacred Cows” get that, and deserve that.
On these blogs, the disliked/hated get a colonoscopy every at bat or pitch. Yet somehow, many posters don’t like the “sacred cows” getting similar criticism.
I just thought it would be interesting if I took the “sacred cows” and slaughtered them together.
Tom Kelly, on last nights game made the most assinine comment I think I have ever heard. He talked about “team” and each member brought special contributions/skills to the “team”. AND, yes, some contributed more than others, BUT ALL contributions were needed.
Have you ever heard such garbage?
Regards,
well now for the big trades to come on a day off …….could be interesting
congrats twins on the sweep…..
the Dragon:
Good to see you back here again. You bring alot of insight to the table.
Cabrera, Wuertz, Jered Weaver is said to be available, Washburn, etc… SHOOT FOR THE MOON and deal from there!
Jared Weaver is available? really? He has struggled as late but is a very good talent. Would love to see him but what would the Angels want? That is the question.
Could you imagine the rotation SF could have had if they did not need hitting and traded Jonathan Sanchez and the 2 prospects that they gave up for Garko and Sanchez to the Jays for Halladay.
Lincecom
Halladay
Cain
Big Unit (on DL)
Zito
Lowry (on DL)
And TK fully understands the Front Office and their unique point of view.
Cabrera… no way! Bad, bad presence in the clubhouse. Notoriously so. Next choice?
scutaro, grudz, weurtz and washburn would look pretty good to me….
big nite for crain… lets hope hes on the big track comin back-he has it all if he can do it…would be a big help along with weurtz….
If the twins didn’t overvalue their prospects would Span and/or Kubel still be with the team?
Duensing pitched well, bottom of the lineup was good, and the bullpen held the lead. Good game for the Twins.
M’s are still in the WC hunt, just acquired Snell.
Why would they rid themselves of Washburn?
We need starting pitching. Weaver? Really!?
ARE YOU KIDDING ME???
San Francisco sent minor league pitcher Tim Alderson to the Pirates for the 31-year-old Sanchez, the 2006 NL batting champion.
Good question Lollipop. And if they weren’t just who would? Maybe some players better and maybe not.
Duensing, yes.
Crain, ???
He threw a lot of straight balls. I think he looked better his last 2 outings.
Tomorrow will tell…. only because its an off day…. Thursday and Friday will show how serious this team is.
Weaver would be great. He is 10-3 with a 3.71 era and is just 26. Of course the Angels will not part with him I would imagine.
Feeling good about the lineup.
Hope M&M sleep all day tomorrow.
Wonder if the Strib will have a live chat tomorrow. Someone has to be on duty to cover the big trades.
:)>
i think we will be saying goodbye to delmon, casilla , buscher and couple of prospects….for whom i dont know, but my wishes were posted earlier….
the Dragon
Heres a long view.
Mauer career avg. .322, obp. .403, ops. .876
Morneau career avg. .285, obp. .354, ops. .864
Crybabies.
Punto career avg. .248, obp. .319, ops. .643
Casilla carrer avg. .241, obp. .299, ops. .605
true legends of the game
I am fairly confident in the Twins chances in winning the Central Division. As is, or with additions.
Detroit & the Twins have similar away records and Tigers have a bit better home record. Chicago better away and worse at home.
Outside the Division Twins toughest remaining opponents LA Angels 3 at home, Texas(7) 4 away 3 home and Toronto 4 away.
Detroit outside Division…Boston 4 away, LA Angels 3 away, Tampa (7) 4 home 3 away and Toronto 4 away.
Chicago outside Division…NY Yankees (7) 3 home 4 away, LA Angels (6) 3 home 3 away, Boston (8) 4 home, 4 away and Seattle (6) ALL away.
That was a quick run through the remaining schedule and I think I got it right.
I like the Twins chances here.
Twins remaining Division Schedule:
Detroit (10) 3 H 7 A
Chicago (6) 3 H 3 A
KC (12) 6 H 6 A
Cleve (12) 6 H 6 A
Let’s get ready to RRRumble!!!
Regards,
I really think the Twins will add pitching if anything. Maybe a starter like Garland or D. Davis…and hopefully Wuertz
And best regards to you too, Dragon.
I vascillate, but agree with you on the Twins chances. But I’m wary of the starting pitching.
So, thanks for your schedule summary. Very valuable.
BTW, we played the Sux at just the right time. They’re slumping some, and are tentative and a little choky on D.
Gonna be interesting. Take care, Dragon.
So did anyone else listen to the Chicago feed? Pretty amazing stuff. My blog: http://dctwins.wordpress.com/
Has anyone considered the possibility that Casilla’s performance so far this year is the anomoly rather than the good 2008, good winter league, good spring training and good minor league season? Since he has stopped chasing pitches so much he has walked 5 times in 5 games and now has a couple hits cuz he is swinging at better pitches. I know one or 2 games doesn’t mean a great deal but better at bats are a big upgrade over what he was doing before this.
Most of you wanted to get rid of Cuddyer and Guerrier early this season. Maybe Casilla can turn it around also.
dragon
your assessment of the twins chances to win the division is spot on, but your defence of punto, casilla, and a front office either unwilling or, through incompetence, unable to make a trade to improve the team’s chances, to not only win the division, but make it interesting in the postseason, is inexplicable.
chief,
“Too bad the Twins don’t have a AA pitcher that the Pirates want.”
“And just how do you know that, sane?”
That was mis-stated by me. I should have said:
“Too bad the Twins don’t have a AA pitcher that the Pirates want as badly as they apparently wanted Tim Alderson.”
None of the Twins starters at AA (DeVries, Mullins, Fox, Rainville, Mata) are ranked in the BA TOP 30 TWINS prospect list.
Alderson was the #4 BA Giants prospect.
I can find no AA Twins pitcher ranked anywhere close to Alderson in any player evaluation publication.
I assume the Pirates agree.
-Dragon I hope that you are right but I still feel that there are too many light hitters in the lineup and that the pitching is still too inconsistent. But who knows. I predicted 89 wins before the season started and am stuck with that prediction.
We don’t even have a prospect as good as the kid from SF. According to BA he was ranked 26th in baseball. The Giants system is so much better than ours it’s not even funny.
22 more losses this year and they will win the Div with 90 wins. I am counting them down.
Bill Smith should be fired yesterday. But he wont because hes running the team exactly like the Pohlads want him to. On the cheap. There is no way that the Twins could not have beat the Giatns offer. Bill Smith is a disgrace. People are saying this sweep might convince Smith not to make a move. We cant win. If the Twins lose, they say there is no point to trade when we are losing. If we win, they say there is no point to trade if we are already winning. The bottom line is Pohlads are cheap.
The Twins just sweep the Sox and other than Dragon,nothing but negative posts.A lot of sick puppies out there!
Game highlight: Dick/Bert trying to explain away Casilla’s awful season by saying he’s felt the pressure of the team looking for a new 2B. Hello!!! They’d have never even thought to scour the market for one if Casilla hadn’t played like dog shhh since opening day!
Bill Smith is utterly worthless. One AA prospect for Sanchez. No way the Twins could not have bested that offer….if they were actually trying to make a deal. Smith isn’t trying to do anything, He’s just sitting on his keister and collecting a paycheck for doing absolutely nothing to help the team.
Mauer is going to LEAVE, Billy, and when he does we will remember situations like this. Do the honorable thing and resign.
The Pohlads are CHEAP!
The Pohlads are CHEAP!
The Pohlads are CHEAP!
The Pohlads are CHEAP!
The Pohlads are CHEAP!
The Pohlads are CHEAP!
The Pohlads are CHEAP!
The Pohlads are CHEAP!
The Pohlads are CHEAP!
The Pohlads are CHEAP!
The Pohlads are CHEAP!
The Pohlads are CHEAP!
The Pohlads are CHEAP!
The Pohlads are CHEAP!
The Pohlads are CHEAP!
The Pohlads are CHEAP!
The Pohlads are CHEAP!
The Pohlads are CHEAP!
The Pohlads are CHEAP!
The Pohlads are CHEAP!
The Pohlads are CHEAP!
The Pohlads are CHEAP!
We are called realists, GENO. We are happy the Twins won, but that does not mean they cannot be better. They will need to be better to have any chance in the postseason, should they get that far.
Think of it like this. If you were given half of a Twix bar, you would be happy, because Twix bars are delicious. But if you were given BOTH Twix bars, you would be happier, because in addition to eating delicious Twix bars, you would be taking care of any slight hunger you might have had, tiding you over ’til your next meal.
the Pigman From Return of the Jedi says:
July 29th, 2009 at 10:34 pm
“dragon
your assessment of the twins chances to win the division is spot on, but your defence of punto, casilla, and a front office either unwilling or, through incompetence, unable to make a trade to improve the team’s chances, to not only win the division, but make it interesting in the postseason, is inexplicable”
I have a couple of questions for you. WHAT exactly would it have taken to get Sanchez?
Would you have traded Swarzak for Sanchez?
What player(s) should the Twins FO trade for to GUARANTEE a chance in the Post Season?
WHAT would it take to get Him/them?
Please explain HOW the quite mediocre 1987 Twins WON the WS?
Please explain HOW the quite mediocre 2006 Cardinals WON the WS?
Please explain HOW the mediocre+ 2008 Phillies WON the WS?
Regards,
I’m with you on one thing, at least, dragon.
The hard part is GETTING to the post season.
Once you’re there, anything can happen.
I don’t know if the Twins can even win a very winnable AL Central, but if they do, they would not be prohibative underdogs in any series. No team would be. It’s baseball.
“Too bad the Twins don’t have a AA pitcher that the Pirates want as badly as they apparently wanted Tim Alderson.”
That’s possibly true. Maybe even probably true.
“Would Bill Smith pull the trigger if the Pirates DID want a minor league Twins pitcher more than they wanted Alderson?” is also a fair question, IMO.
i didn’t mention sanchez.
I would like to answer your questions with questions.
Please tell me WHY you think the only player under discussion is Freddy Sanchez?
Please explain WHAT Billy Smith has done to instill the confidence you so clearly have in him?
Please explain WHAT B.S. gave up to get Delmon Young?
Please tell me IF, you were a betting man, you would put any significant amount of money on these Twins to win it all?
Please tell me, WHEN is the future the Twins front office keeps telling us about going to arrive?
Please tell me, WHEN WAS the last time a team won the world series without adding a significant piece, through trade,at some point during the season?
that’s a fun game, i like talking down to people.
pigman-Why is BS a GM for a major league team and you are a mere poster on a Trib website?Life is not fair!
Ohh please it is alwasy easy to sit back after the fact and laugh at the GM. People all over baseball including the fans of the Twins were excited that the Twins finally traded a pitcher for a promising power bat.
Now, because that bat hasn’t arrived yet you want to dog him. You are probably the same person who was begging for a move like that then and are ironically complaining for another right now.
GENO, Just because a person has a job, does not mean that the person in question is good at it. I would list Les Steckel, Jim Wacker, Nick Punto, Troy Williamson, Chevy Chase (as a talk show host), Jimmy Carter, and George W. Bush as some examples off the top of my head. The logic implied in your post exposes you as a dimwit.
twins alone in second place, two games back, two games over .500 with a winning streak at four after a sweep of the big-city rivals. on the heels of a road trip that could’ve sunk them.
life isn’t always fair but sometimes it sure is fun.
Aaron you are right and wrong. I was one of those that thought that was a good trade. But i am not one of those that dogs young. You can check back through old posts if you want. I usually post as You’ve Got To Be Kidding Me, and i have always been a young supporter. I think he gets a raw deal sometimes, from Gardy, and from the fans. And I still believe that he will turn out to be a very good player, but not with the Twins. I brought that trade up to point out that our GM is not infallible, as that trade has not worked out quite the way that BS thought that it would.
Personally, I could give Smith a pass on the Young-Garza trade. It was defensable on many levels, even though many at the time said he got the short end of the talent stick.
I might give him a pass on the Santana deal. He walked into a tough situation, but clearly handled it poorly and got about as little as humanly possible for a stud starting pitcher.
I might give him a pass for ignoring the team’s bullpen woes last year and over the winter…for giving Nick Punto $8.5M dollars while ignoring other MI options over the winter, including one who he’s now interested in TRADING for.
I might give him a pass for not helping the team so far this season, if he had spent his bullets elsewhere.
And on, and on, and on.
But when you combine all those things, and add in not having Mauer signed yet…well then it gets pretty hard to keep defending him, IMO.
can’t argue with that assessment, chief. well done.
i do think bill smith has been a bit unlucky.
everett was a decent move and would still be paying off. the vaunted starting pitching hasn’t exactly panned out. even guardado is working out for texas this year. those red sox and yankees offers for santana may have never really been on the table. and who knows to this day about delmon?
but i’m still not arguing, chief.
Funny stuff from Ozzie and the Chicago Sun Times…
Guillen can at least take comfort in knowing the trips to the Dome are almost over.
”I want to see the piranhas in a different lake next year,” Guillen said. ”Let’s see those mother [bleepers] hit when it’s 20 degrees outside. They’ll have a little different record at home.”
Huh. If Ozzie and his Fighting Whities are playing in the Metrodome, then it stands to reason that the temperature is the same for both teams. They must not be able to hit in the windless, sunless, 72 degree metrodome. On the other hand, his players apparently enjoy hitting when it’s 20 degrees out.
From Ruesse’s column:
“The Twins don’t have a minor league pitcher anywhere close to Alderson. The only comparable pitcher to offer was Anthony Swarzak, and he’s now a necessity in the Twins’ rotation.”
For once, Ruesse is exactly right.
For once, Ruesse is exactly right.
I disagree, but if Ruesse is exactly right, what does that say about the Twins minor league system? What does that say about the people responsible for running drafts that annually spend a lot of high picks on pitching?
How is it possible the Twins don’t have a comparable pitcher somewhere in High A, AA, or AAA ball? Alderson’s a nice prospect, but not even in the Garza category for pitching prospects.
Not to mention TINSTAAPP.
Anyone know what the FA pool is for 2B next offseason?
Is there a chance - with better odds than pigs learning to fly - that BS knows what he is doing? I’m just saying…………..we’re only 2 back from the Tigers.
the Pigman From Return of the Jedi says:
July 29th, 2009 at 11:22 pm
“i didn’t mention sanchez.
I would like to answer your questions with questions.”
I brought Sanchez up since he is/was the angst of the day.
“Please tell me WHY you think the only player under discussion is Freddy Sanchez?”
On some/many Fantasy teams?
“Please explain WHAT Billy Smith has done to instill the confidence you so clearly have in him?”
I think he handled the Santana situation as well as it could have been handled.
For the “DO ANYTHING” crowd he did the Garza/Young deal. Everyone seems to cry for Garza, maybe he will figure it out, BUT he’s alot like Liriano. 1 spectacular game in 5/6, 1 real stinker and 3/4 pedestrian starts. Garza’s ALCS spectacular start is evidence of this, and seems to fuel love, his WS stinker is ignored (doesn’t seem to fit the template).
“Please explain WHAT B.S. gave up to get Delmon Young?”
See above. I am not as down on Delmon as most, AT THE TIME of the trade, you could routinely find many comments on this sit by obvious baseball professionals, that Denard Span was a huge “BUST”, the “WORST” draft pick in Twins history. Per usual, that analysis has, at least for now, been completely incorrect. A sketchy outfield, at the time of the trade, became quite full with Denard “BUST” Span producing, Carlos Gomez added from Santana + Cuddyer. I am more optomistic on Young than most, the only question to me is has he finally started to learn to listen & take coaching? I’m not there, so I don’t know.
“Please tell me IF, you were a betting man, you would put any significant amount of money on these Twins to win it all?”
I invest in sports EVERY day of the year (profitably I might add). I already have put a modest amount on exactly that occurance. I WOULD NOT put a significant amount on that proposal (or ANY, ante-post proposition), ONLY because, I can achieve a far better return, doing that in essense, day-by-day.
“Please tell me, WHEN is the future the Twins front office keeps telling us about going to arrive?”
4:38pm EDT August 17th, 2009?
Considering we are dealing with human beings, unpredictable. The team is about 4/5 games worse then I expected at this time. Pre-season, many put the Starting Pitching as 4th or 5th need on the team. IF the starting pitching had performed at 85% of 2008, we’ed be complaining from a position of 5-7 game lead. I rate the SP performance as closer to 60% of 2008.
“Please tell me, WHEN WAS the last time a team won the world series without adding a significant piece, through trade,at some point during the season?”
I’ll bite, WHEN?
“that’s a fun game, i like talking down to people.”
Whatever floats your boat.
Regards,
I didn’t see a lot of the game, but caught bits and pieces in the background last night.
Great sweep, nice to see Duensing put up a fairly respectable first start. Did he happen to get the win?
It sounds like the Sox had a few more lapses in the field last night, hopefully it’s a sign that things are starting to get a bit topsy turvy in the dugout (as the Sox tend to do when things start not going their way)
Hopefully the FO can find somebody with good MIF help that can take a few minor leaguers (or can accept a package including a guy like Casilla or Buscher) to at least replace one of Punto/Casilla up the middle.
I don’t think Cabrera is a bad option. .270 with a few homers would look pretty good in the 7/8 hole (Twins don’t “need” a number two hitter if Mauer’s going to hold that spot down)
T, Crain got the win.
Don’t like O-Cab much. I think you could get just as much out of Harris. Would rather see them go after Scutaro but the Jays don’t seem to know what direction they’re going.
“How is it possible the Twins don’t have a comparable pitcher somewhere in High A, AA, or AAA ball? Alderson’s a nice prospect, but not even in the Garza category for pitching prospects.”
what does that say about the Twins minor league system?”
It says that the current talent is badly overrated by those who assume the Twins farm system is some kind of model for the industry.
“What does that say about the people responsible for running drafts that annually spend a lot of high picks on pitching?”
It says that drafting HS pitchers is a crap shoot, even worse than drafting in general.
#1 picks become Kyle Waldrop, Jay Rainville, Ryan Mills, BJ Garbe, Adam Johnson, Matt Moses, etc.,
While lower level picks become Morneau, Neshek, Kubel, Blackburn, Baker, etc.
Not just for the Twins…the draft is a pig-in-a-poke for all the MLB teams. It’s just predicting thefuture with all its inherent uncertainties.
If the Twins scouts are lucky, they are called intelligent and “had foresight”.
If they are unlucky, they are called stupid and close-minded.
Fire them all, but the people who replace them will be less experienced and possibly unluckier.
Duensing in the rotation and franchise to the pen. Guerier, Mijares, Liriano and Nathan in the pen. I like the sound of that. Dickey for innings eater.
Baseball America rates minor lg systems each year.
Twins: 05-4th; 06-6th; 07-8th; 08-15; and 09 22.
As you can see the heralded Twins farm system has been going down hill for some time. Problem is the thinking on these things lag the actual not unlike a player still getting gold gloves long after his fielding has gone down hill.
The common persception they have a good farm system is now wrong. Part of the reason may be they were cheap for many years always drafting under the pay slot to save money. Some due to poor drafting and bad luck. Most people think you make your luck, however.
This along with Smith appearing to be over his head means the chances of the Twins being a world series caliber team while the big three are here is remote. The only hope would appear to be gut the crappy farm system to win now and hope the scouts and BS draft better and make better decisions in the future.
This group does not appear to be a serious playoff team and next year doesn’t appear to have much upside from here.
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/9871032/MLB-trade-deadline-buzz:-Thursday’s-edition?From=MSNHP&FG=FOX_Pipe
Martinez next to go for Indians? — 9:57 a.m.
The Indians traded left-hander Cliff Lee in part because they believed his value would never be higher. Many clubs anticipate that prices for free-agent starting pitchers will plummet this offseason, making it difficult to get value even for former Cy Young Award winners in trades.
Catcher Victor Martinez might better hold his value through the offseason and next year’s deadline, but by how much? Martinez is in the same contractual position as Lee — any contender that trades for him in the next day will control him for two pennant races instead of one.
Martinez, who also plays first base, has always made sense for the Red Sox as a buffer against declines by catcher Jason Varitek, designated hitter David Ortiz and third baseman Mike Lowell.
Consider Varitek’s month-by-month on-base/slugging percentages this season: .881, .824, .750, .697. For the Red Sox, Martinez could be the perfect bridge from Varitek to the Twins’ Joe Mauer, who is eligible for free agency after next season.
The Rays also have pursued Martinez, in large part because Dioner Navarro has the lowest OPS of any catcher with enough plate appearances to qualify for the league leaders. Other, unidentified teams are believed to be interested in Martinez as well.
The Twins may as well trade Joe Mauer now to the Red Sox because all they’ll do is let him go for nothing and then tell the fans they tried to get a deal done but Joe just doesn’t want to play for a mediocre club with no chance of getting to a World Seriez.
If we keep Morneau, we can call him and Morales the M&M boys still, right?
600
From what I am reading, the Twins do not have anybody that anybody wants (as far as for a trade). Were the Twins even in the hunt for Sanchez?
“Were the Twins even in the hunt for Sanchez?”
Not after the Giants offered Tim Alderson.
Before that?
Possibly.
So now Ortiz may have been using steroids in 2003?
Wow. This may silence a lot of critics in regards to the whole “FO let Ortiz go” thing.
“This may silence a lot of critics in regards to the whole “FO let Ortiz go” thing.”
it may. but probably not.
Sane
If they ever were in the hunt, who were they willing to part with? Are they in the hunt for anybody else?
“If they ever were in the hunt, who were they willing to part with? Are they in the hunt for anybody else?”
1) I am guessing that once the Twins targeted Sanchez, it probably was up to the Pirates to ask for specific Twins minor leaguers.
The Twins reportedly turned down a Hicks-Valencia package and the Pirates moved on and asked for (and received) Alderson from the Giants.
Game Over!
2) I have no idea who they are targeting now, but the same process is probably in motion:
a) Select target
b) Target’s team suggests Twins minor leaguers they would accept in trade.
c) Twins balance target’s value vs. cost to procure target.
d) Trade, ask for another package, or move on.
boys and girls there is a reason the twins are in the predicament they are in every year…we spend no money…why do we continually complain about our team when we dont spend the dough?…there is a reason the Yankees and Red Sox compete every year and we play .500 ball….we should all just be happy until we decide to fork over the dough and our glorious leaders…aka the Pohlads decide they want to start winning world series…were not the Nationals at least…or the Pirates!
