Midday (non-trade) update
Posted on July 30th, 2009 – 12:58 PMBy La Velle
Joe C. and I have been of the opinion for weeks that the Twins won’t make a significant deal before the July 31 deadline. Nothing has happened lately to change my mind. The Twins are doing a lot of talking but, as of late last night/early this morning nothing seemed close.
Here’s some things to chew on as the deadline nears:
Pittsburgh wanted Aaron Hicks or Danny Valencia for Freddy Sanchez: Hicks seems to be too much but, given Sanchez’s ability to play third, should the Twins have thought about Valencia and kept looking for middle infield help? How much should Valencia be valued as a prospect?
Billy Beane doesn’t want to trade Michael Wuertz: Wuertz is under control for another year.
Is Orlando Cabrera a real upgrade?: He’s hitting .377 with a .909 OPS this month. Can it last? And he’s not a No. 2 hitter. I’m just not on him - which makes me worried this will be the move the Twins will make, if they make any move.
Washburn has many suitors: Was told about 10 teams have called Seattle about Jarrod Washburn now. And the Twins don’t do well when they have to beat out a lot of teams for players.
Pittsburgh doesn’t want to trade Matt Capps: Was told by a NL source that the Pirates view him as their closer for the next few years. I think he’d make a good set-up guy. Pittsburgh is willing to move John Grabow but he doesn’t address any of the Twins’ pressing needs.
Will Toronto move players not named Roy Halladay?: The Twins are still in on Marco Scutaro - if Toronto is willing move him. Here’s an update from Toronto.
That’s it for now. Will check on trade talks throughout the afternoon and will have a story in tomorrow’s ink edition. Will post here if there’s breaking news.
416 Responses to "Midday (non-trade) update"
Thanks LEN.
I’d take Marco Scutaro over Orlando Cabrera…….I’d probably take our current options of Orlando Cabrera.
BTW, I have a blog: http://dctwins.wordpress.com
Valencia for Sanchez was a no brainer-cant be stressed enough how big of an idiot Bill Smith is.
Just so disappointing.
Valencia is are starting 3B next year. Tell Oakland GFY.
I don’t think Cabrera HAS to hit 2nd if Mauer stays in that spot. Cabrera’s .270+ and handful of homers would look much better over one of Punto/Casilla even in the 7/8 spot in the lineup.
Also, even if Sanchez can play third, that means next year they’d still have the hole in the MIF again if they had to move him over to cover for the likely departed Crede.
If they could get him for something else and keep Valencia at 3rd and Sanchez at 2B next year, THEN it’s an upgrade.
Valencia has added pressure on him to produce now when he comes up in 2010, but I wouldn’t have given him up, and definitely wouldn’t have given up Hicks for him. I was thinking he was worth something like Hughes + A or AA pitcher
No. The Twins should not trade Valencia. Absoutely not, unless the person coming back to the Twins is a Halladay-type guy. I just don’t think Sanchez fits that bill. Valenciz is the Twins’ best third-base prospect, and they haven’t had one of those in YEARS.
That said, the lack of moves is really, really frustrating.
yeah… Sanchez’s value is as a 2B… as a 3B, his numbers fall below average. he doesn’t have the pop in his bat that Valencia (admittedly) might. Trading Valencia for Sanchez would have been crazy!!
Valencia for Sanchez was a no brainer?
Are you serious Sanchez is a decent player, but soudl not have gotten the Pirates a top tier prospect. That the Giants overpaid for a decent secondary player just goes along with how Brian Sabean works. A.J. was good, but not enough to land three prospects, Garko is a decent player, but you shouldn’t have to give up a top tier pitching talent to get him. And while i think Sanchez would have been a great fit here the Twins have nothing that could have beaten what SF gave up for him.
Bill Smith was wise not to try and top the Giants offer, it woudl have likely cost Valencia and Manship, which is just too much for Sanchez.
fcm, I would definitely trade Hughes for Sanchez… Hughes is not at all happy about being in AA again.
Granted they are different types of players, but valencia ceiling is at best a player of Sanchez’ level, nothing more. The rest of the team is build to win, make the trade, next year Sanchez plays third and its a wash…M & M boys arent going to wait around for this kid to develop.
Didn’t the Pirates get more than Valencia for Sanchez anyway? The Twins likely would have had to throw in another player to top Alderson.
People look and see that Alderson was ranked by BA as SF’s #4 prospect. What they don’t realize is he would probably be the Twins #2 prospect behind Hicks.
T LNP or Casilla at 2nd Harris is at SS and Sanchez at 3rd that’s upgrade I can believe in!
Sanchez is better than a “decent” player. Dont call a career .300 hitter and former batting champ decent just to try and get your point across.
Washburn please!!!!!! What has the future ever turned into? Oh yes I know! Matt Moses!!! That’s the future we’ve been waiting for! Bill, prospects don’t pan out often enough. Get somethin good.
Valencia for Sanchez may be a no brainer in the short term but we would also have to eat Sanchez’s contract this year and next like SF did. Also Valencia looks to be our starting third basseman next year when Crede departs.
There seems to be only 2 viable middle infield options in the 2010 FA class including Orlando Hudson, Mark Derosa, Miguel Tejada, Placido Polanco, Marco Scutaro, and Orlando Cabrera.
Would you trade Valencia for Sanchez, Mauer, and Morneau?
I would.
At some point, the Twins have to play for the moment. If not, the pieces that are just entering their prime will walk because the organization isn’t doing everything it can to win now.
It’s not like Valencia is some sort of guaranteed all-star. I completely agree with the person that Valencia’s ceiling (which is rarely met) is probably Sanchez.
I agree with LEN that I would be shocked if the Twins make any sort of trade, even a minor one. The Twins upper farm system is sorely lacking tradeable assets. They have very little pitching depth and other than Valencia have no real prospects that other teams are interested in.
Who’s fault is it that the Twins have view tradeable parts in the minors to go along with gaping holes in the big league club?
The organization has fallen flat on it’s face making decisions for the past 5 years. The scouting department should be embarrassed for it’s long string of misses and the GM should punch himself in the face for the moves (or lack thereof) that have been made during his tenure.
Sure would be nice to have Garza in the rotation and Barlett at SS right now, wouldn’t it?
If the Twins land Scutaro, that’d be a very good mid-season acquisition, but not for Valencia. Offer Hughes. Let’s not yet give up, still about 24 hours.
Halladay? Forget it.
Reusse’s article today was the perfect example of the old three part schtick.
part 1. Pick a subject that everyone is talking about, and take the opposite side of the majority.
part 2. Pick the dumbest possible reason for taking that side(Casilla going 2for3 after finding out Sanchez is now a Giant).
part 3. Sit back and watch the fun begin.
Very Peter Brown esque if you ask me.
When are people going to realize that the Twins do not, as an organization, believe that they should overpay in prospects at the trade deadline, or overpay for free agents in the offseason. They believe in building a deep farm system that can they can use to fill holse that develope during the course of the year.
I guarantee that if the Blue Jays had asked for more thatn Keilty the Twins would not have made that trade in 03. The only way the twins are going to make a significant trade at the deadline is if they are getting equal value in return and i think everyone knows that deadline deals usually always favor the seller.
What has the future ever turned into?
Joe Mauer, Justin Morneau, Johan Santana (though he was brought in from another club at a young age), Span, Liriano (again brought in young)
T LNP or Casilla at 2nd Harris is at SS and Sanchez at 3rd that’s upgrade I can believe in!
That’s IF you can get Harris in the lineup, which many believe to be a very hard feat to accomplish.
I agree with T. Why does Cabrera necessarily need to hit in the 2 spot? Keep Mauer there and put Orlando in the 7-hole to help beef up the bottom of the order. That would be an upgrade.
Im agree, glad someone else thought that article was a joke. When Reusse starts defending Bill Smith you know its all gone bad.
Those 2 should both be fired immediately.
Brainfreeze: I never listen to Reusse anymore. When the Twins win it’s rainbows and lollipops and when they lose it’s time to blow up the team and start from scratch.
LEN,
Any way to hear what the Twins’ counter-offers were? Sure they look ok by not trading Hicks or Valencia, but what did they counter with if anything.
Also, while I do like Valencia’s potential, is there any reason not to trade him for a 3-time all-star and former batting champ?
The way I look at is, is would you rather have Sanchez and Mauer, or Valencia and no Mauer?
If the Twins wanted to show Mauer that they want to win a world series and not play for 2 years down the road, they would have done this deal. They had the chance to trade what projects to be an average 3B for an all-star 2B and they turned it down.
Valencia projects to hit around .280 with 12-15 HRs and 75 RBI with an average glove. As shown by this past offseason, you can pick up a 3B that can hit 20-25 HRs with 75 RBI and a good glove fairly cheap (Blake, Crede)
I’ll take the status quo, because I’ve been a Twins fan long enough to expect only the status quo. That way I’m not disappointed.
harris doesn’t belong in the lineup.
Hughes should be pissed at the organization right now. He’d be better on the roster than Buscher. He is a good enough hitter to be in AAA (and probably int he majors for a ton of teams). He’s no fielder, apparently, but it’s ridiculous for him to be in AA again. Of course, this is the same organization that kept slama in A ball and Delaney in AA ball all last year….
This is the same organization that should rely on its great minor league system, and not sign FAs (even though it can’t come up with a package to get a MIF over 30 years old that works for both sides, of have anyone in its system that can hit over .200 at 2B in the majors).
IF the minor leagues are in bad shape, that’s on the scouts and Ryan, not on Smith (so far/yet).
Liriano had one good year in 4 so far. That’s not much . The fact that he got hurt only shows that there is always that risk, that the future may not be what you expect, and so when you have a chance, you should play for the more likely present.
It’s pretty obvious how good or not the Twins are right now, and where their holes are. It’s a WAG to know where they’ll be in 3 years. It’s way riskier to always play for 3 years out….way more.
“Valencia for Sanchez may be a no brainer in the short term but we would also have to eat Sanchez’s contract this year and next like SF did. ”
Sanchez offered the Pirates a deal in which he would get paid $6M next year, $6.5M 2011, and $7.5M 2012. That would have made sense for this team especially if you look at the contracts coming off after next season (Punto $4.5M and Cuddyer $8M or $9M)
Mike wants wins
completly agree with your assesment of hughes, he should not only be up in AAA, he should have Buschers spot as pinch hitter. What has Buthcher accomplished as a pinch hitter?
Disappointing as usual. I’ve been glued to mlbtraderumors.com on Google Reader all morning but have pretty much lost hope that a deal will be made. I wonder if the Twins hadn’t won 4 straight games if that would be the case? Maybe the Twins’ strong play of late has convinced Smith that we don’t need to make a move.
on luke hughes, you believe one of two things:
1. he simply was the IF that had to go to make room for better prospects at AAA.
2. the twins organization is pulling a fast one on hughes and all the fans. hughes is indeed better than buscher, harris, casilla, tolleson, etc etc… yet bill smith and co find pleasure in watching the over-informed public whine and moan on the blogs.
Valencia’s value is much higher to the Twins than it is to a partner team, making him the opposite of a good trade piece. Tim Alderson, the man traded for Sanchez, is the converse, a guy with a ton of value, but not to his own team. The Twins had no hope of outbidding the Giants for Sanchez, and Smith was right not to pull off that deal.
That said, I’d deal Valencia for the right player, but that player is not NOT Orlando Cabrera
How much should Valencia be valued as a prospect?
Valencia is the Twins best prospect at a position of almost immediate need. By definition, he should be off limits.
IMO, trading prospects for proven veterans works out more often than not (in favor of the team that trades for a vet) simply because prospects, more often than not, do not work out like they are projected and veterans have already proven what they can do. I’m all in favor of trading any prospect for a proven vet that fills a current gap and improves the team immediately.
Just because someone does well in the National league, doesn’t mean he will do well in the AL.
“How much should Valencia be valued as a prospect?”
If you can land an all-star player at a position of immediate need for him, then go for it.
Sometimes the best trade that a baseball club can make is to not make a trade at all. The Bill Smith (and FO) record in making deals the last two years in not exactly stellar.
If we use his past history as a window to the future, then the organization would probably be hurt once again.
The Santana and Garza trades have left the club short of starting pitching, and an everyday MLB SS.
Who knows what holes could be created by an overly aggressive move “just to make a move”.
The Twins have the best record against the AL Central among all Al Central teams and there is no reason to think that they can’t sustain that trend. If they do, they should win their division.
Sometimes “we have to win with the guys we have” is more than a cliché’
While this club, IMHO, has enough to contend for the AL Central, there are just too many holes to think that the Minnesota Twins, version 2009, could actually win a World Series.
They can then use the off season to pursue UFA’s to convince #7 that they are trying to win a WS in the future.
on hughes:
or the Twins are wrong, it does happen. That’s another possiblity, isn’t it?
I can come up with a slew of additional alternatives other than just the two you offered if you want me to…..
Problem is chinmusic, they will likely not use the offseason to pursue UFA’s either.
Sanchez also has a bad knee right now. And he would be coming over to the American league, where he has never played. I would say there is nothing guaranteed about him as well.
As someone else mentioned - even if the Twins were interested in trading Valencia for Sanchez - I am pretty sure they would have taken the Giants offer anyway.
mww: You’re assuming that Sanchez (and Sanchez alone) would be enough for this team to push over the top.
Could Sanchez be the difference between playoffs and not? Perhaps.
However, does Sanchez alone turn the Twins into a World Series team this year?
And since the rally cry the last few years from some of the more vocal bloggers is “Playoffs are not enough”, you have to look at the moves that can help this year and ALSO next year.
Frankly I think Cabrera puts the offense in a good position (hitting 7/8 still improves dramatically over Punto or Casilla), and could turn the Twins into a playoff contender.
However I think the SP being hurt and the bullepn would likely need to be fixed as well to make them WS hopefulls THIS year.
Do you think the Twins have the resouces to fix all three holes this season? I do not. But if they could fix it enough to get the Twins into the postseason this year (which I think can be done by patching one of those three holes) you show the team you’re willing to try and help as best you can.
It’s kinda like this offseason. The Twins were looking at holes in the BP and 3B.
The goal was to sign a fix for one and trade for another. The goal should be the same next season, especially with their trade chips a bit low at the moment.
Because as we’re seeing now, if they trade away too much down on the farm they hit a point they’re at now (too many holes and not enough patches while they’re looking for a fix)
New topic: thermonuclear dynamics. I suspect everyone will have the same level of actual knowledge and the same self-confidence in that knowledge.
chinmusic, I agree, sometimes the best move is no move. But, I don’t agree that the best move is ALWAYS no serious move. And, that’s what this organization has done during the season for a long, long, long time.
hahahaha, you think they’ll pursue UFA in their prime earning years that can seriously help this team? really? what evidence do you have to suggest they’ll do that?
The point isn’t that Sanchez isn’t a good player. He is. But not at third base. Yes, he can play there, but he is definitely not an all-star at the position. Valencia is not, but he has the potential to bring long-term stability to the position, something we haven’t had since Koskie. Trade Revere or Ramos or package a couple of starters, but not Valencia (or Hicks).
Regardless, I don’t think the Twins would have been able to match the SF offer unless they offered Hicks – it seems as if the Pirates wanted one really good minor leaguer.
As for Reusse’s column this morning, I actually agree. This wouldn’t be a problem if Casilla played the way he should be playing. And frankly it’d be better for the Twins if he did, because then they could use their few trading chips to get a starter, which they need most.
I don’t believe that the Twins front office understands the meaning of one word–NEGOTIATIONS! We keep hearing about how other teams demand players like Valencia and Hicks. Ryan was always a self-proclaimed “scout” and I don’t know what Smith is. But my gut tells me they don’t know how to close a deal. Maybe they should take some sales training courses!
We need Valencia far more than Sanchez in the immediate future. We have stopgaps at 2B and SS. Not ideal, no, but they exist. Who do you envision at 3B next year? Trade another prospect to fill that hole? And, as mentioned, it is not at all clear that Valencia alone would have gotten the deal done given the value of Alderson.
beetle,
The Pohlads have stated, more than once, that once they move into the new park, they will spend 50% of their revenue on payroll.
Now believe me, I’m no apologist for the Pohlad family, but I am willing to
give them a chance to live up to their word.
It could be one reason that they are hording their $$$ this year. They will resign Joe Mauer and he will be a Twin for many years to come.
I just hope that they leave a little $$$ for one or two decent UFA’s.
Sanchez is also signed for next year, and asked for a reasonable two year extension. Trading for Sanchez was NOT just about this year, but about the future also. That’s why I prefer him to any of the other alternatives we’ve heard about, because he fixes a hole for at least this year and next, not just this year.
If they acquire a rent a player (like Cabrera), then they have the same hole again next year.
As I’ve typed about a million times, it is about incremental improvement, not about 1 player. If it was about 1 player, Mauer would already have at least one WS ring.
No where on this or any other site did I say or imply that Sanchez was enough to take this team over the top. No where did I say they should be trading for a guy that only has 2 months left on his contract this year.
Can someone make a rational, informed guess at what it would take to get Scutaro? Based on his contract situation, age, etc…
Hopefully Mauer makes these guys prove that they are willing to do more than just contend in a mediocre division before he commits to being here long term.
Smith’s problem is he is gun shy.
After the Delmon Young trade, he knows his next trade needs to be one that works out quite favorably for the Twins. He’s therefore waiting for the perfect deal - which rarely materializes.
Also, how ironic if they do trade for Cabrera when they could have signed him this past off-season?
Smith doesn’t get it…at all.
mww,
As you know well, this club makes their serious trades in the off-season.
As for UFA’s, while I don’t expect them to go after the Texiera’s and the Halladay’s, they can certainly afford the next tier. That would be an upgrade over the Juan Castro’s and Rondell White’s of the world…
I’m convinced the Twins front office doesn’t understand the meaning of one word “NEGOTIATIONS”. Ryan was always a self-proclaimed scout and I don’t know what Smith is. We hear about how other teams demand players like Valencia and Hicks from us. Maybe they should take sales training classes to learn how to overcome objections and close the deal!
Jama, people do not ubnderstand that not only did SF give up their #4 prospect to get sanchez they gave up their #3 prospect to get Garko. It’s easy for us to sit here and say we could beat that trade they only gave up a AA pitcher, SF minor league system is 1 of the top 5 in the MLB. Look at the high prospects that teams have given up to get players so far this year and tell me who the Twins could have delt that would be equal to that package. We should have been able to get DaRosa by all accounts. Now the Twins need to go out and get Garland for the rotation.
Twinsdynasty,
Bill Smith’s problem is that he is really bad at making trades…
Scutaro - he’s having his first good year in the big leagues after being an alright utility player in Oakland for a bunch of years. He’s not young. His contract isn’t much this year. He’s not going to be a Type A (and maybe not a Type B). He will only be a rent-a-player before becoming a free agent. So, the value for him would be less than Sanchez, I would hope. But that’s not how JP Ricciardi is going to look at it. He will, like everyone, ask for too much. He’d probably want Ramos and Guerra, or possibly Benson or even Revere (after asking for Valencia and Hicks)? Then you can give up those guys for 6-8 weeks of a utility infielder who has had 3 really good months.
Sanchez is no longer an All-Star player. He’s good, and a good fit, but not an All Star. I would have given up Hicks or Revere or Gutierrez for him. But not Valencia.
“Also, how ironic if they do trade for Cabrera when they could have signed him this past off-season?”
Not that ironic. The Twins would have had to give up their first round pick (Gibson), and now they could probably get him (which I hope they do not try) pretty cheap.
“The Pohlads have stated, more than once, that once they move into the new park, they will spend 50% of their revenue on payroll.”
LOL Pohlads don’t spend 50% of their revenue now or in the past 2 years what evidence is there that Pohlad’s will suddenly spend money like a drunken sailor in Las Vegas
I don’t know our farm system well enough to comment, what I do know is that this current team with it’s starting pitching and holes in middles infield can not compete for a World Series. If trading a top “prospect” would get us a good hitting second basemen to stack our line up. Than mucking do it!! I mean it’s time and regardless, we will lose Mauer if we don’t…. If we lose Mauer, I will start to turn on Bill Smith a la Mchale
T is right. Twins don’t have enough pitching to beat the Yanks, BoSox, Angels, Rays right now even with Sanchez. Who wins these matchups
Sabathia/Beckett/Lackey/Shields vs. Blackburn
Burnett/Lester/Weaver or Santana/Garza vs. Baker
Joba/Smoltz/Saunders/Kazmir vs. ???
Twins would be in dire straits in each pitching matchup and undermanned in hitting as well.
“Also, how ironic if they do trade for Cabrera when they could have signed him this past off-season?”
If they had signed him in the offseason, they would have had to give up their 1st round pick to the White Sox. I guess I’ll take Kyle Gibson over the next 9 years rather than one year of a non-good shortstop.
The reality is that they could have had 3.5 years of a player that is guaranteed to be good in exchange for 6 years of a player that might be great, but might bomb out. That’s a trade you make. The money should not have been any issue whatsoever.
Keep drinking that Billy Boy Kool Aid. I hope Joe and Justin leave.
seth,
Scutaro is juiced-up version of LNP…
Once upon a time fans complained about the lack of trades to upgrade the team. There were holes in the outfield. The Twins had a host of young pitchers that seemingly refused to trade because “they never do anything”.
Behold, they traded one of the young pitchers and a shortstop for a young promising outfielder and a shortstop considered to be of similar value.
They did something … … and now fans complain about the time when the did something, because it did not work out. The point is sometimes doing nothing would have been better. And sometimes doing something is better. You just don’t know.
Why is Hicks such a valued prospect? He is performing Horribly in single A ball. Everyone says he’s a great hitter, really fast, and awesome in the field. He may be able to field but as of now he is barely hitting .200 and has less than 5 steals for his season.
LOL Pohlads don’t spend 50% of their revenue now or in the past 2 years what evidence is there that Pohlad’s will suddenly spend money like a drunken sailor in Las Vegas
Yes they do. And they’ve spent more than 50% in the past.
“Can someone make a rational, informed guess”
If you are going to set those kinds of requirements on our guess, we can’t help you.
unless hicks and revere know how to play another position other then OF, is there really any point to holding on to them and let them waste away in the minors like restovich and cuddyer did? restovich never panned out, and cuddyer has been hot and cold, never being a consistent quality player, though his paycheck says otherwise, though maybe it has been because of injurys. probably wouldnt give up hicks for something called sanchez either, but we shouldnt be afraid to pull the triger on a good deal just because they want a player. i’d rather see someone do well somewhere else, then see him sit in the minors behind 4-5 starting MLB players…
“Scutaro is juiced-up version of LNP…”
I agree… that’s my point… he’s a utility guy, having a really good season, and they Jays would be wise to milk that for all they can get. And for the Twins, it doesn’t make sense to give up anything near what I was guessing up there.
I sleep better telling myself as Joe C always says…”Twins fans just don’t know how good we have it” He is wiser than us
Waldo,
I for one never complained about the trade with Tampa. It’s painful the way its turned out and I wish they could take it back, but it made sense at the time.
You’re not going to win every trade and sometimes not making a trade is the right move. But the Twins have failed to make ANY significant trade in July for SIX years now. They have frustrated the stars of thier team to such an extent there is danger that all of them will walk away just as soon as they have an opportunity. That is not OK.
In any given year it might have been the right move to stand pat. But there is no way it has been the right move to stand pat EVERY year for the past 6 years.
This is so disappointing. Mauer and Morneau are one of the best combos this team has ever had, and Smith is going to waste them in their prime. Why would Mauer want to stick around, if the front office does not show that it wants to take the steps that are needed to win? Why would any player want to be in Minnesota? You have the richest owners in baseball, yet nothing ever gets done. They convince the taxpayers of Minnesota to build a new stadium, and the taxpayers go along thinking maybe this will bring in new revenue that will be spent on players. Wrong! Fans and taxpayers need to demand that something be done. Why do they hang on to “prospects” when all they do in this organization is languish in the minors? Hang on to Valencia? For what? What happened to Luke Hughes? Wasn’t he supposed to be the “future” 3rd baseman? So how many 3rd baseman prospects do they need? They keep building for the future, and the future never comes. Time to follow a different team.
Fire,
I know, I know. I too, am a long suffering Twins fan who grew up here, moved away and had the advantage of follwing the team from afar until my timely relocation back to the TC.
If my history serves me, they did not say they would spend the $$$ that they are raking in on the “farewell to the Dome tour ‘09″.
They have stated many times that they will spend 50% of revenue on payroll when they move to Target field.
We are all obligated as fans to hold them accountable for their words.
“Why is Hicks such a valued prospect?”
Size, Speed, Athleticism, Baseball skill. he’s 19 and only has about a month in Beloit, so dont’ look at batting average. however, note his plate discipline. He has about the same number of walks as strikeouts. The power will come. He’s got good speed. He’s a natural in the OF. He’s got a very strong arm. He will hit for average. Of course that is based on projection, but there aren’t a ton of 5 or 6 tool guys, even in the minor leagues. So if he can come to the big leauges with 3 or 4 of those things developed, he’ll be very good. I’ve been told he’s the best prospect the Twins have had in years.
Per MLBtraderumors.com, as of 7-25-09 Scutaro carries a Type A free agent status. As long as he doesn’t get injured or go into a major slump it looks like he’s in a good position to retain that status.
MLBTR Post…
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2009/07/elias-rankings-1.html
“but as of now he is barely hitting .200 and has less than 5 steals for his season.”
Hicks has played only 31 games (5 weeks)and has only 112 at-bats.
He is 19-yrs-old.
Release him!
The SOB shouldn’t be allowed to try our patience like this!
Seth,
If Hughes isn’t happy being at AA again, then he should clean up his fielding. Was pretty sloppy in GCL and first week in New Britain. Doesn’t make a very good impression that way.
Needs to move to LF.
This is the same regime who made Restovich an untouchable remember
Scutaro has never had a bad year. His worst year was a 79 OPS+. But he’s consistently about 90. He has a good eye at the plate and is a good defender at two positions. He would be an upgrade at either short or second.
By contrast, Punto is the very definition of inconsistent. He’s had two years with OPS+ under 60. His best year is Scutaro’s best year (prior to this year). To me, there’s really no comparison. And how long will it take before Punto starts throwing lollypops past Morneau and into the dugout? Morneau’s saved him several times already, and Punto’s throws are getting progressively worse.
“Hang on to Valencia? For what?”
To be the team’s 3B next year and hopefully for 5-6 after that.
“What happened to Luke Hughes? Wasn’t he supposed to be the “future” 3rd baseman?”
I don’t think anyone really believed that Hughes would be the future 3B for the Twins. Those who follow the Twins minor league system knew Valencia would surpass him. That said, Hughes can be a solid big league DH/PH/3B/2B/OF guy who can certainly contribute to a big league roster.
“Time to follow a different team.”
I think I’d speak/type for many who would say, “Go Ahead.”
lets hope these prized prospects are better than all these 1st round picks from the last 10 yrs we would never think of trading.
revere
parmale
sanchez
plouffe
waldrop
fox
rainville
moses
adam johson
garbe
mills
where would we be without these guys?
Re: Joe Mauer and Sanchez; Mauer wants to win a championship and lets face it Freddy Sanchez doesn’t get the Twins near the World Series. All that getting Sanchez, or anyone else for that matter this year is show Joe that the Twins want to win the Central, which admittedly is at least showing the want to win something.
Personally, I would rather see a couple big moves for younger (impact) players this offseason. Then signing Mauer.
Make the moves first, show him you want to contend for a championhsip 2010-2014 and that MIGHT get him to stay. But, unless they somehow trade for Pedroia, Halladay, and Hanley Ramirez in the next 24 hours, this team is not going to the world series. Don’t waste prospects/money on the Sanchez’s, Cabera’s, and Scutaro’s of the world because they might get you to the first round but not much farther.
On a related note, I hear Guzie is available, why not bring him back for posterity.
c-mat, I’m with you on Punto’s defense, that has definitely taken a step in the wrong direction.
And also, I realize Scutaro is clearly a better option than Punto, but an OPS+ of 90 just doesn’t get me terribly excited.
No one seems to remember the trade that sent AJP to the Giants brought us Nathan, Casilla, and Liriano. Some are good, some are not so good. But everyone dwells on the “not so good” ones.
“Time to follow a different team.”
The next bus leaves in 30 minutes.
Be under it!
This organization has a glaring lack of depth at the “minor-league level”.
I don’t know what was going on with their drafts here from 2000-2007, but it’s a huge liability for a franchise that HAS to consistently “build from within”.
Keeping top-rated prospects at every level has to be high on the club’s priority list.
There is no way that I would trade guys like Revere and Hicks for rent-a-players
who are not much better than who they have.
Otherwise, we could end up like the Indians and Pirates.
Seth,
I may have missed it, but what would you give up for Scutaro. Remember that he is a type A free agent, so basically the Twins would get Scutaro + another team’s first round pick in the deal.
I feel Sanchez is overrated. He hits for a good average, but doesn’t really walk that much - his OBP has been about .330 all year. He plays mediocre defense, I hear.
I’d rather not give up a top prospect and pay him $8 mil next year. Not worth it.
I’m fine rooting for the underdogs. I prefer it even. The Twins weren’t supposed to win the WS in 87 or 91 either. The best team doesn’t always win the World Series - just ask the Marlins, the Cards, the White Sox, and all the other non-great teams that have snuck in the playoffs and taken the whole thing. It happens.
That said, it would be extra hard for us to do that this year, what without a dominant starter or two.
Luke Hughes is a cant miss prospect.LoL
We will see Hughes next batting 6th and playing 3rd for Australia in the next Olympics.. along with Balfour and Michael Nakamura…
Hughes= .260 in AA
Doc,
“No one seems to remember the trade that sent AJP to the Giants brought us Nathan, Casilla, and Liriano.”
No one (including you) remembers that trade because IT NEVER HAPPENED!
Substitute Bonser for Casilla.
Casilla came in the AJ trade? I thought it was Boof?
seth, do you onl expect them to have good players at every position? the point isn’t that an OPS+ of 90 is great, the point is that it is many, many wins better than what Casilla has given the Twins.
It is about upgrading the position relative to what they have, not relative to the best players in the game.
Would you rather they keep around a guy that might be the worst every day player in baseball right now, or get a guy that is about average for his position?
As for the Young trade, if the Twins believed in advanced statistics (those evil things), they might not have made the deal…..
I agree with mttwinsfan, the Twins need to push for the first year of the park. I think the Twins have always been aiming for the first year of Target field. Signing a relief pitcher, second base/shortstop and a decent starter, then extending Mauer is a likely offseason goal. The free agent market won’t be much better this offseason and there will be some trade opportunities.
You are right, sy, on Bonser instead of Casilla….my bad.
Why is no one mentioning David Eckstein? He’s inexpensive, he’s got experience, and he can play middle infield. His regular season stats are nothing special, but he proven to pick it up in the postseason. I heard that he was available, but no one talks about him. I don’t feel it’s a coincidence that he won WS with 2 different teams. I look at him as a clutch version of Punto. Here are the postseason stats.
Cumulative Postseason Hitting Stats: Next Stats >>
SEASON TEAM G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI TB BB SO SB CS OBP SLG AVG
2002 Anaheim Angels 16 68 9 20 0 0 0 6 20 3 4 2 0 .338 .294 .294
2004 Anaheim Angels 3 12 2 4 0 0 0 0 4 0 1 0 0 .333 .333 .333
2005 St. Louis Cardinals 9 33 8 9 0 0 1 6 12 4 3 1 1 .375 .364 .273
2006 St. Louis Cardinals 16 63 7 16 4 0 1 6 23 5 1 4 0 .338 .365 .254
Career Totals 44 176 26 49 4 0 2 18 59 12 9 7 1 .345 .335 .278
Sorry so garbled., all you need to see is .333 to .375 in postseason.
sy says:
The next bus leaves in 30 minutes.
Be under it!
Oooooo….big internet tough guy huh? I have been a fan of the Twins since they began in 1961. The way this team is being handled now by the front office and management is embarrassing and discouraging. But, I guess as long as fans like you keep supporting them and just go along with whatever the geniuses in the front office do, then you will get what you deserve. Personally, I have gotten to a point that I have been let down too much, and it is time to follow someone else.
But keep reading these comments so you can jump on anyone whose opinion may be different than yours, or who might make an error with the players involved in a trade. Mr. Internet Tough Guy.
mww, I’m good with getting better, but it’s more about who you give up. Scutaro would probably be better than Casilla over the next 6 weeks. But at what cost. Someone up above mentioned that Scutaro is a Type A free agent. So the Blue Jays are going to want at least the equivalenty of two first round picks. That’s a ton for a guy with a 90 OPS+.
Dr.Don
“No one seems to remember the trade that sent AJP to the Giants brought us Nathan, Casilla, and Liriano. Some are good, some are not so good. But everyone dwells on the “not so good” ones.”
Amen. Or Knoblauch for Milton (Silva, Punto)Guzman, Brian Buchanan (Jason Bartlett).
Or Kielty for Shannnon Stewart
Or Matt Lawton for Rick Reed
OR Travis Bowyer/ +1 for Luis Castillo
Although these were when Terry was running the show.
DrDon
The Twins got Casilla for JC Romero. Boof was involved in the AJ trade.
By the way that AJ trade isn’t looking as lopsided as it did a couple of years ago. Boof has done nothing and Liriano had half a good season.
It has basically been Nathan for AJ, I still think the Twins easily won that trade but not at historic levels as was initiallly thought of.
Right now the Twins need a starting Pitcher more than a 2nd baseman, Play Harris at SS everyday and some combination of Grudz,Punto and Casilla at 2b send Buscher down and bring up Morillo for the BP.
We got Casilla from the Angels for J.C. Romero…
Dryburn, it is a free world, go ahead and follow another team. To quote Seth, he also said “Go Ahead”, but you didn’t jump down his throat… Selective bully yourself? Have a good day, and let us know when you pick your new team to follow.
Seth,
Do you see Hughes as a poor man’s ben zobrist? Or to put it another away, ben zobrist before this year? A guy with some pop who can play multiple positions but doesn’t play any one position particularly well
looks bad for the giants they only had aj for 1 year and he was a free agent. not a great roi.
Because it seems to be the cool thing to do:
hey, didnt we get Casilla for JC Romero?
Just one thing. A day late and a dollar short. The Twins seem to value there talent much much higher than it really is. They should try and trade for a starter (Garland or someone like that, someone to play secound base and a middle reliever. Trade Young/Punto/Busher/Perkins.
Take a chance. Saying that the talent they have on the time know is go enough to will the division is a joke. If that were true than they would not be such a up and down team.
Oh well just my thought.
Thanks
Note to Twins beat writers: What the other team WANTS has nothing to do with what they GET.
Its just another way for this do nothing front office to rationalize not doing their job.
If a front office works hard they can get value for players and make their teams better. If you only listen to the first offer and quit you will never accomplish anything.
The Twins are one of only a couple of organizations that haven’t caught on to this.
There isn’t one guy in our minor league system that should be “untouchable” for the right deal. Hicks might be close but he’s AT LEAST 4 seasons from being an everyday major leaguer. By that time you don’t have Mauer, Nathan, and maybe Morneau and you continue to have the same average team hoarding “can’t miss” 19 year olds who pan out 1 out of 5 times.
You think they’ll offer Scutaro arbitration? If so, he’d be a fool not to take it, and they’ll never get those two draft picks and be stuck with an old guy with a big salary.
But, I’d agree, if they need to give up much of anything for him, I’d not do it. Again, my targets would be guys that are younger, more expensive, and under team control for more than 1 year, but that’s not this team’s MO.
It’s hard to say they shouldn’t go for guys that are rent a players, if we know they won’t go for guys that are in the middle of their careers either. What is the alternative to those two?
but i agree with your general point, this is an exchange of assets, and that exchange needs to make sense.
btw, KLAW posted today that now that he’s seen Alderson for 4 more months, he’s no better than around the 100th prospect, and probably worse….
This talk of adding an infielder is moronic and I can’t believe the Twins would be interested in any of these names thrown around. The have a top of the line defense and sure the hitting is sub par. But it’s the starting pitching that was exposed in Anaheim. If any move is considered it should be a top line starter. And that just is not going to happen. So we win with what we have and pray an average rotation will win down the stretch.
If the Twins get Marco Scuatro - you can have even more fun in the Dome! The first base side yelling Marco! and the third base side yelling Polo! — that’s what happened at Nats Park in DC when the Jays were in town.
jama,
I still feel that was a very lopsided trade. Say Liriano doesn’t get hurt we get an Ace, the next great Closer, and a guy that at worse, did a heck of a job to help push us above detroit in 06.
Looking forward to next year the bullpen will be looking much better with Neshek coming back. Maybe Boof can find his old self and even help the rotation if not the bullpen again.
We did this analysis on Howard’s blog, but it’s a myth the Twins don’t make trades or sign FAs. Of the 25 players on the roster, 13 were NOT drafted by the Twins.
Of course, we did not analyze the effectiveness of those trades/FA signings….
Mike wants wins; Tyler and Mighty Casey:
You are ALL idiots. What makes you think Hughes as ANY value? Dumb butts all.Hughes is going down, not up. Real hands of stone and now not hitting a lick……..Can he play 3rd; never for a MLB team, can’t play 2nd so where are you going to play him. DH, over Kubel, I don’t think so……
You guys are cakes…………
mww,
Totally agree with you on arbitration. Just because somebody is a Type A or B doesn’t mean they will get offered. In some of those cases in this last off-season, teams did not offer to some guys because they were afraid that they would accept. So the draft pick compensation doesn’t even come in to play on those players. I think there will be even more of those cases this off-season
Liriano did get hurt, showing that it is much harder to know where your strengths and weaknesses will be in th future, and therefore you should play more for the present, when you know your strengths and weaknesses (assuming you are close to very good in the present. If you aren’t you should really tank and get rid of the stiffs, especially the older ones, but teams are rarely brave enough to do that and then follow it up with signing and otherwise acquiring talent the next year with the saved resources).
i’d say neshek coming back and amounting to anything productive ever again is very unlikely.
but heck, every other twins pitcher that had tommy john or some other major arm problem has done very well.
not to be pessimistic or anything… just think that fans and more importantly the front office can’t expect anything from neshek or boof next year.
“A guy with some pop who can play multiple positions but doesn’t play any one position particularly well”
In my opinion, absolutely, that would be a good comp.
Mike wants wins; Tyler and Mighty Casey:
You are ALL idiots. What makes you think Hughes as ANY value?
i was on your side on this one so chill out. maybe you misinterpreted one of my posts?
As for a trade- before September 1st.
How about a guy on a losing team who could bring some veteran leadership and quality pinch-hitting to this club?
I remember how a guy named Don Baylor
helped a certain team in ‘87.
a. Does this FO and Gardy have the cajones to bring someone like that in here?
b. Who out there would fit that role?
I have defintely not been impressed with Bill Smith’s tenure as GM thus far, however, I have to say that I agree with the decision to not make a move at the deadline this year. Although the Twins FO cannot say this in the media, I think it’s clear that they do not want to waste prospects and resources on this team. Deadline deals should be made to put good teams over the top and set them up for a run in the playoffs.
The 2009 Twins have floundered around .500 all year, found all kinds of ways to lose games and generally underacheived. In contrast, it was an absolute crime that TR failed to make a move at deadline in 2006. That team was around the best record in baseball all year….featured Mauer, Morneau, Hunter, Santana, Lirano(most of the year)Radke, Nathan, a great bullpen and the very effective Pirannas. TRs failure to land a starter at deadline may have cost THAT team a WS when the staff was hit by injuries late in the year.
Has anyone watched the 2009 Twins v. Boston, NYY and LA? They have not just failed against them….they have been destroyed. Does anyone think the addition of Gonzolez, Scuturo, Eckstein, Cabrerra, a good reliever, etc. make the Twins competetive against those teams? Very wishful thinking.
In other words: Why waste prospects and money to gain a chance to win a terrible divison and get hammered in the first round of the playoffs?
If they need to mollify the stars they should do that in the off season by signing some REAL free agents or making a trade to put a team in the new ballpark that really does have a chance to get to the WS.
Go ahead and stand pat this year Bill.
“New topic: thermonuclear dynamics. I suspect everyone will have the same level of actual knowledge and the same self-confidence in that knowledge.” Yes, because baseball is just as complex. Man if non-knowledgeable fans ever quit caring and being opinionated, baseball is in trouble.
The only player last year who was a Type A free agent that was not offered arbitration was Adam Dunn (there were other players not offered arb, but those players ended up retiring)
A player like Scutaro would be stupid to accept arbitration. Coming off a career season like the one he is having, he would almost certainly want a multi-year deal. There is no point in him taking arbitration since he probably will not have another year like this year. There are teams like the Yankees/Red Sox that would probably sign him.
Dodgers get Sherrill. He and Broxton would make a pretty nice combo out of the pen
dodgers picked up sherrill for 2 prospects guy named bell their #8 guy and steve johnson not in the top 10.
these guys any good seth?
Dryburn,
Nobody is an Internet tough guy.
Nobody threatened you.
The only person threatening future action was you threatening to find another team if the Twins don’t do what you want.
My response was the same always to people who threaten to leave if they don’t get their way.
THE DOOR IS OPEN.
CLOSE IT AFTER YOU LEAVE, PLEASE!
chinmusic:
I think Don Baylor is still available.
Bill Smith sucks. He’s an idiot for not making any moves. And if our ‘hot’ prospect gets hurt in the winter???? Becomes worthless. Learn from Zigy. If someone is willing to trade their star, go get him. Jared Allen didn’t turn out so bad now did he?? You can’t tell me guys from a couple of high picks will turn out to be a guy like him. Twins will never learn.
I can’t imagine teams lining up to give Scutaro a multi-year deal if they have to surrender a draft pick.
Dryburn,
I agree it has been frustrating watching a team we feel as being so close not getting a piece to put us over the top. However, to say this organization has been embarrasing? There plenty of teams that easily take the success we’ve had over the last 7 years. Nats, Pirates, Mariners, Orioles, even the A’s to name a few.
matt,
But look how not accepting arbitration backfired on so many of the 2nd tier free agents. It obviously did not hurt sabathia and teixeira.
GGOkemos,
Good one, what’s his OPS this year?
the days the twins start modeling themselves after the vikings is the day where i go down to mow lawns with brett the hick.
yeah, I’m with saam on that one. I just can’t see it, especially with the economy the way it is. I think we’ll see plenty of teams not offer players arbitration next year.
(and often they shouldn’t. Lots of guys that get a few million here and there are replacable guys)
Too bad BS didn’t address the bullpen problems in the offseason - Jeremy Affeldt would look great on this team (.190 RH BAA / .228 LH BAA), especially since he would have been cheaper than Punto.
Is Harris really THAT BAD at 2B that we can’t trade for Cabrera and have a somewhat normal/good line up?
I want Cabrera, not cause he’s a great player, because he plays hard. He’s an intense guy, the Twins never have that. They had a spark last year when Gomez/Span/Cassilla/and Punto were all having better years. Cabrera is that same type of weapon, not an energy guy anymore, but fast and has a mean streak. The guy likes to win, sign him up!
What does Bill Smith do all day? or winter?
Note to Twins beat writers: What the other team WANTS has nothing to do with what they GET.
Note to whiners, it’s hard to make a deal with a team if what they WANT isn’t what they should get.
Because you don’t just give them what they WANT if what they WANT is too MUCH.
(Typing in all caps is fun)
The Giants gave up a good prospect. Their 4th best, and I believe he is ranked 45th or so in baseball by some.
With his health and low OBP, it’s better to not give up our potential future 3B in Valencia.
At this point I’d take Scutaro and his .291, 8 HR, 46 RBI. He has a $1.1 million deal this season and we’d be paying less than half of that. They say he may be connected to Halladay meaning if Halladay is traded they’ll look to move him too.
Is Harris really THAT BAD at 2B that we can’t trade for Cabrera and have a somewhat normal/good line up?
I want Cabrera, not cause he’s a great player, because he plays hard. He’s an intense guy, the Twins never have that. They had a spark last year when Gomez/Span/Cassilla/and Punto were all having better years. Cabrera is that same type of weapon, not an energy guy anymore, but fast and has a mean streak. The guy likes to win, sign him up!
I dont know how ANY player would want to stay here. I say that as a die hard fan. I won’t blame Joe Mauer when he sign elsewhere and then when Morneau wants out.
Your team just SWEPT the White Sox saying “HEY! we are still in this and we want some help” if you can’t respect that and make a move….I dont know…. As always….one piece away.
The one time we made a move we made a SERIOUS run. The shannon Stewart deal. Make a couple deals…MAKE A RUN!
Wuertz is signed for 2 seasons until after 2011
mww,
I completely agree with you on your 3:03
I have a feeling that the ‘09 offseason will be very similar to the ‘08 offseason. There will be no excuses for this team’s FO to not find quality FA’s at a reasonable price.
i think sherrill would have looked good in the 8th. still under team control for a couple years. doesn’t look like alot for him.
Reusse’s article was right on! I’d rather strengthen the starting pitching or help for the middle relief corp than add a mid-level infielder. Pitching will determine if this team wins the division. Morneau, Kubel, Cuddyer, Mauer, Span, etc should be able to generate enough runs. They should be enough to offset, the no-hit / good defense, middle infield. No bat that is now available is a difference maker.
One team’s fans are bummed because they didn’t get Halliday, and had to settle for the 2nd best pitcher avaiblable.
Another team’s fans are disappointed they didn’t get Sanchez, and had to settle for Casilla or Grudz.
For all of you saying, “it could be worse”, it could also be a lot better. That team just won the WS, has a better farm system, and is as likely to win again this year as any top contender. So, yeah, sometimes the grass is greener.
ggg, “you cannot trade from the prospects for the present” “the other team wanted too much” “the Twins couldn’t have matched that offer” “they need x position more” “making trades is not the Twins’ way” “making trades is not winning the right way”……
casey-I hate to burst your bubble,but BS doesn’t care what bloggers on this site think!Overpay for Washburn.
mww,
Maybe Dryburn could become a Phillie’s fan!
“As always….one piece away.”
And that piece is…………..Babe Freaking Ruth, LHP-RF!
Let’s go get Marco Polo! C’mon Smith!
geno-
what?
Jama, you wrote,”People look and see that Alderson was ranked by BA as SF’s #4 prospect. What they don’t realize is he would probably be the Twins #2 prospect behind Hicks.”
BA’s “guesstimate” was before the season started. I think Alderson might have struggled to crack SF’s midway-point prospect ranking.
While Alderson is a big kid, his fastball has not gained velocity since they drafted him and he has had trouble with “good” hitters at the A and AA level.
I would rate him lower than thae top four pitchers in the Twins system. In fact, I don’t believe he will reach the majors, as a starter, before the Twins #1 pick in 2009.
“I would rate him lower than thae top four pitchers in the Twins system”
Hunt, Mulvey, Gutierrez, Manship (BA preseason).
Disagree.
Only Manship is doing better IMO, and he is 24-yrs-old.
I fully realize that some of the very best trades in Twins history have been one’s that were not made. That said, I don’t know how much more of Minnesota Mediocrity I can take!!
You all should listen to sane,he actually has baseball experience!
Ouch, if those are the Twins’ top 4 starting pitching prospects right now, ouch.
I think Guerra may have re-captured a top 4 spot, and until Hunt shows he can pitch more than 1 strike per batter, I don’t think he’s there anymore.
Mulvey may (or may not) be a shining example of why keeping prospects is a bad idea. If he’s as bad as he looked when up here (which I doubt), they should have dealt him when people still thought he could be a legit SP…..
if there is any single GM or scout who altered their opinion of Kevin Mulvey based on one big league outing, then that person should be fired.
The Twins Are Frauds
Oh, I agree Seth, I agree. Maybe I should have used Hunt as my example….or even Guerra on the other side of the coin….
“I think Guerra may have re-captured a top 4 spot”
Really? His last outing:
2IP, 6H, 5 ER
Jack Hammer
I’d be shocked if more than 1 GM said any of those pitchers have more value than Alderson. I completely disagree with you, he would still be either #1 or #2 ranked if he was in the Twins organization. That is how bad the Twins farm system currently is.
The Santana trade was suppose to help restock the farm system and unfortunately that has not been the case. The AAA team’s lack of prospects is pretty embarrassing considering the Twins traded one of the top 5 pitchers in baseball 2 offseasons ago and only have one of those players with the big club.
“he would still be either #1 or #2 ranked if he was in the Twins organization. That is how bad the Twins farm system currently is.”
Keith Law had him ranked #26 overall - so he would be either the #1 or #2 ranked on most teams right?
seth what do you think of the sherrill trade?
First of all anybody referencing the AJP for Nathan/Bonser/Liriano trade as in have we forgot about it, we havn’t we hear it nearly every time we watch Nathan take the mound in a save situation. Its also fair to mention that this was 6 years ago. Now the Dodgers have made a move to get Sherrill for 2 guys that would have been the equivalent of an Angel Morales and Trevor Plouffe. I can’t believe we have the connections we do with Baltimore and we are looking for relievers and we can’t get a crack at Sherrill. Of all the moves and not moves that annoy me this year, this one is gotta be the most disapointing.
What does it matter? Even if we made a huge trade we would still get crushed in a five game series with the RedSox or Yanks. One trade won’t put us over either of the two AL East front-runners. Maybe a couple of high spending off-seasons would, but not one deadline trade!!
Trading for O. Cabrera is a bad move. He’s slow, commits too many errors at shortstop, and isn’t that good of a hitter. In fact, Punto and Cabrera have identical on base percentages. I would easily start Punto over Cabrera any day of the week.
KLAW had him rated that at the beginning of the year. In his chat today, he said he’d be lucky to be in his top 100, probably just out of it, if that high.
jama, I agree. They also dealt a legit SP and SS and got nothing much in return so far. If ONE of those trades had been good to great, things might be different right now.
Only 23 hours left…
I also keep reading that the Cubs are close to Grabow. Unless they are sending Vitters, Samardzija, or Cashner I don’t understand how we miss out on this too. It’s getting absurd.
I find it curious that a franchise that claims to value their minor leaguers and building from within has absolutely no value stashed away in the minor leages. There is nothing down there that can help this team.
There is no need to make a trade this year because this team isn’t going anywhere. Maybe we can trade Gardy away.
Looks like Fishwrap East side interviewed Billy. Here’s a question that scared me.
“Q: The time is nearing to re-sign Joe Mauer. Do you feel pressure to show him that the team is willing to spend money or assets to acquire players and win now?
Smith: I’m not going to comment on that. I’m just not going to comment on that whole scenario.”
my bad mww … I just read the KLAW article and he said this about Alderson:
“But right now none of his pitches grade out as above average, and he projects as just a fourth or fifth starter in the majors.”
That’s too bad, because the Twins have a ton of minor leaguers that project as fourth and fifth starters if not higher.
The window for the infielder is closed, unless somebody not yet on anyone’s radar somehow gets placed in the trade pool. However, there is still time to land Jon Garland and/or Doug Davis from the DBacks. Our starting pitching is easily the worst part of this team, especially with Slowey gone for the season and Liriano either hurt or just bad. Picking up a quality starter, even a #2 or #3, strengthens the bullpen by allowing Swarzak or Perkins to move there. It does seem that once we get to Guerrier in the 8th, we’re OK, and that Mijares and MAYBE even Crain can hold the bridge in innings 6 and 7.
Larry
Saying all the Orioles got for Sherrill was the equivalent of Plouffe and Morales is idiotic at best. I can’t believe how much value Twins fans put on these prospects. First off neither Plouffe or Morales are pitchers, which Johnson is. Add to that the fact that Plouffe has much less potential than Bell and you have your anwer on why the Twins didn’t get Sherrill.
Sanchez is a defensive liability. Look at the CWS series to see the value of defense. Punto can save runs and generate some occasionally. Damned sure didn’t need Sanchez!!!!!
Where is the year-long outcry for easy and immediate help in the bullpen. If I ignore his performance this year, Guerrier has been terrible. Mijares also stinks and those who thought he was the answer were likewise wrong. The truth is that the Twins now have 2 8th inning guys. BS has done nothing - signing Keppel and Dickey hasn’t paid off(1-2 bad outings for Keppel, 2.37 ERA for Dickey with several long stints in support of not so great starting staff thru 7/1)
chinmusic,
The Twins have used 50%-52% of their revenue for payroll in the past, even though they have dropped below that recently.
Good stuff LaVelle!!! I would have given up Valencia for Sanchez. We basically have a BIG hole at second and have a guy at third that won’t be there next year (and only plays part-time now) and there will be a BIG hole there after that as well. So in my eyes, Sanchez shores up either 2b or 3b through at least next year, and then you just have one hole to worry about, knowing that you can take the best guy available for either and have Sanchez work around it. Still, isn’t the point moot? Why would the Pirates have taken Valencia when they could have Alderson?
Jama
alright Shooter Hunt if you want a pitcher. It is equivilant the 2 prospects the dodgers gave up aren’t any higher on anybody’s list organizationaly than Plouffe or Morales was my point ie… equivilant. We definetly have talent that can match that.
Let’s face it, the Twins are basically a farm team. Call them AAAA, because they don’t seem to want to compete with the premiere teams. They are more or less a developmental squad for the big city teams on the coasts.
“Why would the Pirates have taken Valencia when they could have Alderson?”
Because Alderson projects as a 4th or 5th starter in the majors according to Keith Law
Nevertheless, Alderson is a higher-ranked prospect by Baseball America, and I’m not going to pretend to know more than them.
One piece away? What piece is that? I think we’re MAYBE one piece away from the division. World series? 3 pieces MINIMUM! SP, 2B, RP. Even if we added those three, I still don’t see how we can compete with New York, Boston or Anaheim. I’ll continue cheering, but this team has some holes and to say we’re one piece away is just wrong.
Keith Law is not god! He hates the Twins too btw.
It will be interesting to see how many games Sanchez sits out for the Giants before his sore knee allows him to play.
“That’s too bad, because the Twins have a ton of minor leaguers that project as fourth and fifth starters if not higher.”
They also have 12 MLB pitchers that project as fourth and fifth starters if not higher.”
a little harsh sane!
do you know anything about the dodgers guys traded?
Everyone is the next Mickey mantle in our system. During the MLB draft, the commentators (I know just their opinion) said both Hicks and Revere were “stretches” in the 1st round. Our sandwich 1st round pick in 2008, a pitcher whose name escapes me is horrible. He was mediocre in college, pathetic in the World Tourney and has been stinking up the minors. “Shooter” has been subpar. Look at the last ten years of 1st round picks and the Twins apparently are going with lesser talents that they can sign. Maurer, of course, was the exception. The reason the farm teams are in the shape they are is alarming. Remember when New Britain had Hrbek, Brunansky, Laudner, Gaetti, Viola etc. The spinmeisters make the fans think we have all these hidden gems in the minors who are destined for greatness when instead we have a bunch of Tolberts and Macris.
I yawn at the thought of any of those players.
Russ Ortiz is available now. I am sure Bill Smith is already on the phone…
How about Young & Harris to Tampa for Bartlett & Garza? There’s still time
How about Young & Harris to Tampa for Bartlett & Garza? There’s still time
How about Young & Harris to Tampa for Bartlett & Garza? There’s still time
Well, yeah. Grabow to the Cubs. Of course, he would’ve been a solid, veteran lefty addition to the Twins ‘pen.
But, alas…nada.
I agree with points from both sides of the argument going on today.
But what I will not be able to forgive is yet another trade deadline passing without Bill Smith making a move to add to the bullpen, in an adequate kinda way (not a pathetic Eddie Guardado kinda way.)
That would be indefensible. Grabow just went off the board who made the most sense in my mind.
ggg,
“do you know anything about the dodgers guys traded”
Bell was #8, Johnson #15 in BA Preseason Prospects.
That’s about all I know about them.
Except (I believe) that no one out here is complaining about getting Sherrill.
“not a pathetic Eddie Guardado kinda way”
Can we get our Hamburger refunded?
No, I don’t remember those New Britain teams. Probably because our AA team at that time was Orlando, Hrbek made the jump from A ball, and Brunansky was in AAA went the Twins traded for him.
There will be no trades. If you are Buffet Bill, why trade the next Nolan Ryan or Albert Pujols for any established major leaguer? The spin has already started on Sanchez. Thanks Reusse. Ignore the fact he WANTED to play for the Twins, that he is all-star and that he hits .300. Instead talk about how he can’t field like Punto. Ditto Cabrera. Yes he might hit .290 but he is too feisty and might not get along with all the warm cuddly Twins in the locker room. Cabrera would inject some fire in to a team that plays each game like it is another day at the beach. Smith can’t sign him because then he will look like an even bigger fool than he already is because he could have gotten him in the off-season for much less than we are paying LNP.
Liriano should have been traded. We need to quit thinking he will ever regain his past form. Delmon should have been gone too. Hard to believe Billy couldn’t have traded both of them for some relief help or a middle infielder. I am getting so tired about all the “but Delmon is still young, he will be great someday.” He won’t. I’d rather have Gomez who as ditzi as he is, plays with passion and actually helps the team. Besides he is now hitting the same as Golden Joe Crede, .235.
Sherrill = Flat bill on hat.
Flat bill on hat = unsavory
I wish we could.
I may have missed it, and if so, I apologize, but has anybody discussed how the players who spoke up (Morneau, Nathan, Mauer) possibly hurt Bill Smith’s trading power/position? Of course, there is no way of knowing that for sure, but it makes sense to me that other clubs may have played a little more hardball-ish with the Twins FO knowing that the players were pressing them to make a move.
Just a thought.
Also, Halladay for a piece of ABC gum. I just know the Blue Jays would fall for that.
You’re right airhole, it was Orlando then not New Britain. They moved there later. The point I was trying to make was that Gaetti, Laudner, Viola DID play for them, Herbie was in the system, even if he jumped from Class A. We used to have some real players in the minors. No Pucketts at Rochester or New Britain now, no Radkes, and on and on.
To sweeten that trade for Tampa, we could throw in LNP and add Jerry White to seal the deal.
Sanchez is an average second baseman who makes 9 million next year who doesn’t get on base that much and is a medicore fielder. He would obviously be an improvement over what the Twins have and get a couple of more wins for them but I don’t think he is what they need. I don’t think bullpen help is needed either from the outside. Robert Delaney and Anthony Slama should already be in the bigs for the Twins. They are better than Bob Keppel, Sean Henn, Luis Ayala, RA Dickey, Brian Duensing, Jessie Crain, Juan Morillo, Phil Humber and Kevin Mulvey at relief. They have good stuff and they strikeout a ton of batters. As 6-7inning guys this year they would be good. What the Twins really need though is a #1 starter. They ain’t going to probably get that for a long time unfortunatly. Baker is a #3, Blackburn a #4, Slowey a #4 Swarzak a #5, Perkins a #15 and Liriano a headcase that has #3 type stuff now. Baker and Slowey are good pitchers to have. They need a #1 to get behind though. Swarzak and Blackburn are fine in the rotation as well. It’s time to say bye bye to Perkins though. Obviously the Twins can’t get Holiday but maybe someone will come on the market for a trade this offseason that’s a #1 or #2. That’s what they need. The starters ERA for the Twins this year is a joke. They have lost too many games due to the starters getting rocked or giving up leads. Liriano makes Livian Hernandez look like Santana this year. That’s what needs to be done because nobody in the minors has #1 ability besides Shooter Hunt and he looks like a wreck right now. Jeff Manship, Tyler Robertson, Deloris Guerra and Carlos Gueteriez look like the best starting pitching prospects the Twins have and they aren’t close to the majors or close to be a #1 or #2 starter.
We need help on the mound. A decent older starter. Glavine?
Mark the Mouse’s words. Grudzie is going to be a real value add.
We’re going to win the division. So long as we don’t take another meaningful injury to the starting staff.
That’s why…I’d at least talk to Glavine.
T-Mouse
Looks like the Orlando Cabrera asking price for red sox was two 26/27 yr old AAA filler non prospects…basically not much…twins could get him for minimal price
Rumor Mill: Sox pass on season two of the OC? 07.30.09 at 11:10 am ET
By DJ Bean
Conflicting reports this morning in regard to the Red Sox potentially bringing back shortstop Orlando Cabrera. Dan Barbarisi of the Providence Journal has the Sox turning down an offer Tuesday of Cabrera for Chris Carter and Fernando Cabrera, while Susan Slusser of the San Fransisco Chronicle refutes the notion, citing an Oakland representative.
http://fullcount.weei.com/sports/boston/baseball/r ed-sox/2009/07/30/rumor-mill-sox-pass-on-season-tw o-of-the-oc/
Fernando Cabrera AAA
Chris Carter AAA
“Robert Delaney and Anthony Slama should already be in the bigs for the Twins”
I think if you bring them up before Sept 1st– you waste an option year and a year at the minimum salary. There is a reasaon they haven’t been called up.
Slama and Delaney are bullpen guys. You don’t need to worry about option years. They are never going to make more than 4 million a year. Making that would be lucky. If you need bullpen help they are what would help.
The only real top pitchers for free agency are Rich Haren and John Lackey in 2010 so the Twins need to trade for a top #1 as they are out of the Twins price range unless they really mean it and increase payroll with the new stadium. Ain’t happening.
I think it is important to the Twins as an organization to finally have a decent home-grown third baseman.
“You don’t need to worry about option years. They are never going to make more than 4 million a year.”
The issue is moving forward the year in which they have to be waived (not optioned) to be sent to the minors.
No, I don’t remember those New Britain teams. Probably because our AA team at that time was Orlando
And Tom Kelly was manager. The next year (1983) Charlie Manuel started managing the Twins A club in Wisc. Rapids.
T-Mouse,
Your should never be allowed to comment again. Tom Glavine? Please. He’s 8000 years old and isn’t good anymore. I get the idea, a veteran starting pitcher for free. You just can’t convince me that he’s even an upgrade from Deunsing.
“The issue is moving forward the year in which they have to be waived (not optioned) to be sent to the minors”
and the year they become arbitration eligible.
and the year they reach free agency.
“Tom Glavine? Please. He’s 8000 years old”
Age discrimination?
The Twins will call up Delaney before Sep 1. Mark it down. He’s their bullpen arm that they are trying to acquire at the deadline. They may even call up Slama too. I actually like this idea because relief pitching is very unpredictable and these guys have shown in the minors that they have ability.
Sane,
I guess you could call it age discrimination. What I am actually using is talent discrimination because I only want players that have it. I won’t give bad players the time of day.
Let’s wait until next year, that’s our mantra. Next year. Next year. Next year. Next year. Let’s see that’s four next years. By then I think Mauer, Morneau, and Nathan will have left. Probably Kubel too. So let’s just keep waiting until next year. Next year.
what, Mark Grudzleak doesn’t count as a big pick-up. Every year this is embarrasing. Why not give up a couple top guys and go get a Roy Halladay. Just once I’d like to see the Twins go get a star in FA or Trade Deadline.
If Slama and Delaney were that good they would be here. If they were that good then package them to get Halladay.. or quality starter..
Scutaro right now is basically Sanchez minus a batting title and 7 million dollars/year. He’s a great fielder at 2B an has an excellent avg and OPS. We wouldn’t need him to play third with our precious Valencia coming up next year anyway. He would be a great addition.
La Velle, pleaae, no more updates unless it includes a legit trade rumor.
They’re good. The Twins are just extremely carefully and for some reason, extremely patient.
Well patient doesn’t cut it if we want to use farm talent to win a title, or be right there by the time Mauers contract is up.
I have seen Delaney and Slama pitch. They are at least as good as the lesser relivers in the major league pen right now. They are not good enough to get Halladay but they are good enough to be up, not sure why they are not.
I didn’t say their patience was a good thing it’s just what they are.
I know I’m in the minority, but the Twins should stand pat unless they get an amazingly good deal. Even with an update - one person won’t make that much of a diffence. To win we need 1)good quality starts 2)solid relief pitching 3) timely hitting & 4) a little luck. Just think where we would be now if we had just said NO to the Rays.
Well said GW. I agree mostly, except that 2B has been so bad that the Twins need to do something there. I guess that’s why they signed Grudz because he will at least be a marginal upgrade, if a “good deal” can’t be found.
these guys have shown in the minors that they have ability
so did sean henn
Yeah GW I’m starting to lean that way too, especially with Sanchez gone now. Not a Cabrera fan, if we could have gotten him on the cheap I say go for it, but he is just so old, I’m sick of old guys. He’ll probably get stuck in a rut once he gets here anyways. Bullpen will get better on its own next year, I’d like to see some starting pitching, but that can be done in Free Agency as well.
Scutaro and a SP would be the moves i would like to see be made.
The only player worth pursuing at this point is Jarrod Washburn. I do think that Bill Smith needs to send a positive message to the fans and players that he’s is working to improve the team by making a deal for Washburn. However, I realize that the Twins have quite a few holes to plug, i.e., the middle infield and the bullpen for starters.
Twins should really only trade for a starter or Adam Kennedy. The only problem is that I can’t think of one that would be worth trading for without crippling the Twins future. Maybe Justin Dusch. from Oakland but he hasn’t pitched this year and might cost too much (in prospects) to trade for. Any opinions on starters that we could/should go after?
Twins 2b tandem is well below league average in every offensive category; Twins 2bmen have the worst OPS, Avg, RBI and total bases IN THE MAJORS, and in most cases ITS NOT EVEN CLOSE. With Crede able to play 3b at least part-time and Guerrier/Mijares looking decent, 2b is by far, by far the biggest hole on a team with a lot of holes.
If they could at least rent Cabrera or Kennedy to play 2b for half a season for a reasonable price, I’d take it at this point. Not ideal, but it needs to be done unfortunately. As bad as those guys are, they are a big upgrade from what we got jogging out there every night. At least Kennedy gets on base once in awhile.
I wouldn’t call kennedy bad. He seems quite good (at hitting) to me.
.295/.348/.430 with 8 HRs and 15 2B.
The only problem is that I think that I read that Oakland wants to hang on to him. Also, he ruined the Twins playoff run when he was with the Angels about 6 or 7 years ago.
BREAKING NEWS
Twins trade Young Casilla Liriano Hughes Hicks Revere for Halladay and Scutaro
Just kidding but I can dream can’t I?
They need a starter badly, i’d say thats the #1 need for the team. Sloweys out and now Liriano has another health problem. The Twins need a vet starter in the worst way.
Kennedy isn’t bad (at least not Twins bad), just average. Which would be a big improvement. I guess I should have said that.
I can’t believe the Twins can’t get some help by trading Delmon Young. Young hasn’t been out of Gardy’s doghouse in a week or more. Don’t tell me his trading value is low, he has more potential then lots of the minor leaguers that are currently being traded and he is not making a lot of money. Leaving Delmon parked on the bench will do nothing to increase his trade value for the off season either. Smith should trade him now while he can still get something. This is so d*&% frustrating that the Twins can not get any help. Maybe the Twins over value their minor league players……….you think?
Twins don’t have the resources or the wherewithal to get an impact starter. They can find a better guy at 2b.
Here’s the kicker: Adam Kennedy was acquired by the A’s in May for Joe Dillon (33 year old AAA roster filler).
Ya know…middle infield help was out there–IS out there–if you have a GM willing to admit he needs it.
Just in the past two weeks, the Brewers, Red Sox, Rockies, Cards, Giants (twice), White Sox, Mariners, Phillies, Dodgers and Cubs have completed trades in an attempt to better their chances of getting to the post season.
It ain’t as hard as Bill Smith makes it sound, people.
Here’s the kicker: Adam Kennedy was acquired by the A’s in May for Joe Dillon (33 year old AAA roster filler).
Ya know…middle infield help was out there–IS out there–if you have a GM willing to admit he needs it.
Just in the past two weeks, the Brewers, Red Sox, Rockies, Cards, Giants (twice), White Sox, Mariners, Phillies, Dodgers and Cubs have completed trades in an attempt to better their chances of getting to the post season.
It ain’t as hard as Bill Smith makes it sound, people.
La Velle,
Any rumblings about the Twins taking a look at JJ Hardy? I have seen several rumors linking him to Seattle for Washburn…any chance the Twins could or would put together a package for Hardy?
Player A:
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?playerId=5315
Player B:
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?playerId=4157
player A got traded for a top 50 prospect, player B is a rental but costs much less
Not that he is on the block but my wish this past off season was for the Twins to get JJ Hardy from the Brewers. I would still take him:)! Their top prospect in the minors is a SS and they just got a 2B from the Dbacks. Just a wish!
As someone who has actually seen Valencia play this season (as opposed to the rest of the morons here), I can say trading him for Sanchez would have been a monumentally stupid move. Sanchez will never be better than he is now — a slap hitter who is a mediocre fielder. Valencia has a lot of upside: a true power hitter. His fielding is adequate and can better with some good coaching — which many do not he’s getting in Rochester.
“I find it curious that a franchise that claims to value their minor leaguers and building from within has absolutely no value stashed away in the minor leagues.”
No kidding. Except for Valencia and Tolleson (who’s a lot better player than the folks hanging out here think), the cupboard in Rochester is pretty bare. LaVelle would do well to spend a few days out there when the team comes back from the road trip and see for himself.
how about Bloomquist & or Bannister?
Olney says they’re on the block. Would would that cost?
Anybody know whats going on with Valancia? Is he injured or just in a big slump?
It does suck watching other teams make moves…is our farm system so replete of talent that we can’t make a trade? Are we so afraid to add a little payroll? In the future if we sign a FA or two (QUALITY FA, not the dregs we’ve been prone to sign in the past), then you may NOT necessarily be in a position, as we are now, to trade a prospect in order to upgrade the team.
Is one move going to put us over the top, no, but it would least show the top players that we are trying. If Bill Smith would go out and pick up a couple decent Mid level free agents this past off season we might not have 4 or 5 needs at the trading deadline. This is where we are at every year. The lack of activity by the front office is almost embarrasing. It really is like we are a farm system for the top level teams in this league. Very Sad I feel bad for coaches and players that can see they will not get any real help from the front office/ owners. This is the frustration for the fans and the players
Just filed my story for tomorrow. Bill Smith was very short with me on the phone. Said he had too much going on to talk. Twins brain trust hunkered down in Smith’s office.
I have uncovered no evidence that the Twins are about to break this cycle of non-trading at the deadline. I will give them all kinds of props if they do something by 3 p.m. tomorrow.
One thing I did include in my story: There is very little interest in Delmon Young.
LEN,
How much stock do you put in the rumor that the Pirates wanted Valencia or Hicks for Sanchez? To me that makes no sense and I find it hard to believe.
Bad move by the GM if there is no move made..
The situation with Mauer is different then any other player who has left here. Great player, hometown hero and the face of the franchise-.
Mauer has a direct effect on the Twins bottom line. Tickets, marketing, etc..
Should be an intersting 18 hours..
I am saying Mauer is the greatest Twin ever(yet) but the combo platter he brings with his popularity and hometown makes it a different dynamic then any other player who has left here.
Make a move Bill dont piss off Mauer.. A happy Mauer and Morneau has more value then the top 50,100 - Twins prospects combined.
so lets face it the Twins are probably not going to make a trade……so i came up with a ridiculous solution…. bat punto in the 2 hole hes starting to make some contact with a couple pitches hitting in front of mauer might make opposing pitchers be forced to give him some decent pitches to hit.
“Anybody know whats going on with Valancia?”
Little slump. He actually hit the ball pretty hard when I saw him in the Pawtucket series last week, but nothing was dropping. People do not realize what a pitchers’ park Frontier Field is: it’s very spacious, to say the least.
Stand pat, Bill Smith. Stand pat. Hang in there buddy. The best deal is often the one that didn’t get made.
Bunting Twin stop it your killing me!
The team is sorely lacking in leadership, but I think that could change.
I see Cuddyer and Span providing the leadership for the rest of the year. I think they will step up to fill the void. That void you would expect to be filled by All-Star types, but we know how the All-Stars dropped the ball.
Houston,
Billy isn’t going to be suckered again. He’s hanging tough, turning down junk like Freddy Sanchez.
i am just sick, as a twins fan that we have such a loser for a gm and even weaker management for keeping him- its not fair to the players and is surely not fair to the fans that are paying all of their silly salaries and for the stadium..
even the stadium is roofless because they were too damn cheap to invest in a roof….cheap gets old
I know I’m chiming in late, but after looking at the information LaVelle gave us… this means that Bill Smith is not going to be able to help the team unless it comes after the non-waiver deadline. With his track record so far the odds of him helping this team in any way at all are slim to none. It’s going to be a swan song for baby jesus next year at the new stadium.
The best deal is often the one that didn’t get made.
Well, C r a i g, in that case the Twins have managed to make the best deal for six years in a row now. Going on 7.
Sweet.
Delmon Young, Kevin Slowey, Francisco Liriano, Brian Buscher, Boof Bonser, Alexi Casilla for Halladay and Scutaro. Jays aren’t going anywhere this year, they can wait for Slowey and Boof to be ready in 2010. We have Halladay, Baker, Blackie, Perk and Swarzak as starters in 2010. With this one trade (if Halladay could be persuaded to drop the Twins from his “NO” list), Smith could redeem himself and start working on signing Maurer and bullpen relief over the winter. He could actually leave a legacy other than as a fool. Too bad the trade won’t happen, and he will ultimately go down as the guy who killed the Twins when in 2012 with Maurer and Morneau gone, we become the Washington Nationals.
No interest in Delmon Young? Shocking.
The team is starting to gel, now that Young and Harris have been relegated to part time roles (cheering from the bench). Gardy always called Harris a “role player”. I love Harris and he’s a good fit for his new role.
There still is a chance the Billy might send Young for a class A guy, or something of that nature. Free up some bench space, but Delmon might be perfect as a cheerleader. That’s what I think. Stand pat, Billy. Don’t take any ridiculous gambles.
BOB your smoking good stuff
the Twins need to get Pridie up here to join Young and Harris. Those three guys would be great in their proper roles.
should we speculate at which free agents the Twins will not bring in to open the brand new stadium with? Maybe we could talk about how the entire opening Roster will be home grown, and unfortunately too many people around here will applaud the lack of effort as some kind of Minnesota badge of honor like celebrating 20 below zero, or making a bad decision in trading Santana.
Bob…every time you come on this blog, you refer to our catcher as “Maurer.”
It’s Mauer.
M, A, U, E, R.
Just one R.
You’re welcome.
One last comment to Bill Smith: Stand pat! Lexi is just starting to rip the ball. Give the kid a chance, for crying out loud. Punto will turn it around. Don’t worry about anything. Keep the players you have.
How long do ya figure ya got, C r a i g, before you’re found out and kicked off the blog again?
you refer to our catcher as “Maurer.”
Close enough.
USAFChief,
I don’t know this person, but he must have left an impression on you. Show me one of his posts. I’ve looked but can’t find any.
Thanks Chief, I get so frustrated at this team that sometimes my spelling isn’t purfect 
Mauer, Mauer, Mauer. OK, ok it!
maybe were going after this all wrong…since this ass named smith wont make a deal to build this team- why not trade off all the stud talent thats going to waste here and let them be winners elsewhere… we could probably put together a pretty good bunch of youngsters for the likes of morneau, mauer, nathan, cuddy, and kubel….lets rebuild around gomez, and morales, valencia-at least it would be interesting-its pretty pathetic when thoughts like this even come into ones mind…..
Bill Smith said that he had too much going on to talk? The pizza guy must have been at the door.
At least everyone’s on MY page this year. Last year a large majority said to save all our starting pitchers because a trade wouldn’t matter, they didn’t want to make the playoffs just too lose, etc. What a difference a year (and a one game playoff loss) makes! Best thing is, the Twins only need a 6 or 7 hitter or average reliever to make this team noticeably better, but the front office just doesn’t have the collective intellect to put a deal together. Stingy, stupid and starving the masses as usual. Heads should roll if nothing is accomplished… THAT MAKES SENSE. I don’t think a SP is affordable or needed as much.
Brainfreeze-
Awesome! How much does BS make a year (including food allowance)?
This is almost as bad as Bill Smith’s screw-up in off season free agency. Particularly with these blog’s prescient opinions.
Endless Blog Love for Adrian Beltre. Granted an injury, BUT would have surely out done Harris/Buscher. .259/.291/.664 5HR 31RBI
The bull-pen would have been solidified by Juan Cruz. 6.54 ERA, 1.477 WHIP, K/9 6.5 BB/9 5.1
J J Hardy… .235/.299/.679 11HR 45 RBI
Many willing to part with several of Blackburn/Perkins/Swarzak/Mulvey.
What was Bill Smith smokin’? This team would have 15 more wins with those HOF performances.
I admire the passion of the posters here, the personnel choices not so much.
Regards,
you might as well forget about this team ever contending. they will never trade for a semi-decent player again! joe mauer will be gone after next year and they can forget about seeing sellout crowds at target field next year and for years to come! i hope the pohlad family is happy with themselves. it just goes to show what greedy owners in this town are! good luck joe in either boston or new york in 2011 you’ll be a definite winner in either one of those cities.it it just sickens me how much this team isn’t committed anymore!they have no heart and are an underachieving team!until they prove me wrong i’ll be spending my money elsewhere instead of at the new ballpark! ’nuff said!
Dragon,
Please read ggg’s comment at 2:18.
No one has mentioned anything regarding Ortiz and Ramirez, any thoughts? Think Manny got Ortiz started on the juice? Big Papi might be juicing again after seeing what he did in the game today.
Brainfreeze says:July 30th, 2009 at 9:47 pm
“Dragon,
Please read ggg’s comment at 2:18.”
And your point is?
Regards,
Brainfreeze,
Also, too bad the Twins screwed-up drafting Mauer because he was a hometown boy, RATHER then the more heralded Mark Prior.
Regards,
I would do JJ Hardy for Glen Perkins in a heart beat. Still can get rid of Perkins for a quality player while he still is decent without being hurt.
Hardy makes all the plays in the field
and hitting behind Span I think he would do a lot better than hitting behind Kendall. This seems to be the spot that we can afford to move. Still think Duensing can pick up Perkins spot and run with it, have always thought that. Duensing has good stuff when he get’s on a roll. He is better the longer he goes. Brewers have a hot shot SS prospect in Escobar, Twins and Brewers seem to fit each others needs and should hunker down and hammer out a deal,
The only good thing that has come out of this is that those Twins fans who were slow or even unwilling to criticize Buffet Bill in April have seen what a nimcompoop this guy really is. I know the Pohlads are cheap. I get that. But Smithers is a joke as a GM. He is huddled up in his “war room” acting like he is Eisenhower planning the D-Day invasion. He’s probably watching Family Guy and stuffing his face with pizza.
What do you guys think of the comparison of Bill Smith and J.P. Ricciardi here: http://dctwins.wordpress.com/
Great article Phil. I hope the jerk on here who slammed me for saying that one of the packages for Santana included Jon Lester reads this. He said I didn’t know what I was talking about and no such deal ever existed. Ah, sweet vindication
Bob,
Please explain how much this team would be better with the blog sensations of Beltre/Wiggington, JJ Hardy & Juan Cruz, with the subtraction of Blackburn & Perkins.
“Don’t do this at home.”
Regards,
“Gopherdudepart2 says:
July 30th, 2009 at 10:02 pm
“I would do JJ Hardy”
Take him out for dinner first.
Bob says:July 30th, 2009 at 10:12 pm
“Great article Phil. I hope the jerk on here who slammed me for saying that one of the packages for Santana included Jon Lester reads this. He said I didn’t know what I was talking about and no such deal ever existed. Ah, sweet vindication”
You conveniently forget the word “reportedly”.
IF you need, I can post a definition.
Regards,
bob
Many of us are disapointed, even angry, by the twins’ front office lack of action. But you just come off as a dimwitted, venomous troll. It kind of balances the Dragon, though, as he is a polite, Twins can do no wrong kool-aid drinking troll.
Pigman @ 10:19 -
You fall under the “Everybody who disagrees with me is a koolaider” type troll.
I think Bob is the guy that last year was posting all the time about how gardy was obese, and stupid for juggling the lineups all the time. Also, he kept rambling about the “curse of the Cuddyer” and posting under jim, bob, paul, and other names that were linked to nonexistant blogs.
One thing I did include in my story: There is very little interest in Delmon Young.
But he’s the perfect player to trade. He has no value to the team, has no future, and nobody here likes him!
Har har, talk about taking a statement out of context. It’s late and doing a trade Hardy for Perkins makes a lot sense for both teams. Each team is strengthened by making that trade and each team has a capable player to step into the former players role. you can take Hardy out to dinner I will take your wife or girlfriend.
T
Nope, I’m no troll. It’s just that they are both extremists, on opposite sides of the spectrum. Like the right wing NRA gun nuts, and the left wing anti gun nuts. Most people fall somewhere in the middle. Me, I think the Twins generally do a good job, but I find their lack of action frustrating at times.
Competition for a reliever just got tougher, Zumaya done for year.
Dragon,
My point is that there is no guarantee that any of the prospects that the team refuses to give up will ever make it to the big leagues. Whereas the players they would be getting in return are most often established major leaguers with a track record of success at the major league level.
Obviously Beltre is having a bad year, but as far as Hardy goes, I would take 11hr and 45rbi over what we have gotten from short this year, and it’s hard to know whether Cruz would be as bad if he were playing for a team in contention.
I did’nt think that I would have to explain all of that, but it’s hard to tell others comprehension level.
Regards,
Having said all of that. I did put on here a couple of weeks ago that I did’nt think that there was one trade the team could make this year that would turn them into a World Series contender, and I still believe that.
I’m just fed up with the whole giving away the future bs, and that line of thinking was here long before BS. We can’t sign free agents because we’ll lose draft picks, and we can’t trade for anyone because we’ll be mortgaging our future.
I’m not talking about going after every big name free agent, or always going after every big name at the trade deadline, but at some point you have to decide to go after the big prize. Guys like Morneau and Mauer only come along so often, and if you’re not going to go for a World Series with those guys, then what exactly are you waiting for.
Dragon
Sure, Bill Smith didn’t go after cruz because he knew that cruz was going to be awful. Instead, he signed the ever brilliant luis ayala. What incredible foresight he has.
…Been a while, and other than maybe tomorrow, might be a while again.
Trade for Orlando.
The Twins, trade or no trade, should win the division.
The Twins, also trade or no trade, should lose in round 1 of the the playoffs.
Good luck guys. You’re going to need it.
dragon: you’re a year behind. It was last year at this time many people wanted Beltre.
This year many said the play was to sign free agent Casey Blake to play third.
Don’t let facts get in your way, though.
looks like these sources have more info than lavelle
Look for the Twins to trade for 2B David Eckstein of Padres or 2B Adam Kennedy of A’s instead of SS Orlando Cabreraabout 3 hours ago from web
BNightengale
Bob Nightengale
Twins making progress in pursuit of A’s Cabrera — 12:06 a.m.
The Twins finally are making progress in their attempt to acquire A’s shortstop Orlando Cabrera, according to a major-league source.
The teams continued their discussions on Thursday and plan to continue talking Friday.
Twins manager Ron Gardenhire has talked openly about his affection for Cabrera, and first baseman Justin Morneau and other players have implored general manager Bill Smith to make a move.
ESPN right now Olney said Cabrera to twins for a prospect close to complete
Hmmm, La Velle’s new post says the A’s upped their asking price for Cabrera (to Valencia) while Buster Olney at ESPN is now saying that the two sides are closing in on a deal. I hope that’s not the cost because I agree that he isn’t a huge upgrade. On the other hand, players were lobbying for Cabrera so it might be a good move for the clubhouse morale.
I don’t get how this is an upgrade. Harris basically puts up the same numbers. Who would be the odd man out? Buscher? At least Cabrera could get his usual #18…unless the Twins retired that number in honor of Luis Ayala.
if i am hearing right our minor leagues must also suck, if we dont even have decent prospects that would draw interest from other teams…i am confused, as i thought that was our strength- the minors…havent we always been told that we grow our own, etc…..if we are so poor, whos to blame for that, who has let the minors go to hell- all this crap makes no sense- i believe we just dont have clever enough management to make a deal- they all sound like the next harmon killebrews when we sign these kids, so what happens ???- plouffe, macri, lis, revere, parmalee, etc dont have any value to anyone??? maybe we just dont know how to promote anyone and sell to other general managers…i also dont think bill knows how to counter and maneuver a deal, i dont know, i just see others doing it and we cant seem to get any kind of deal done…theres a dark hole there somewhere……
Source: Cabrera could go to Twins
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By Buster Olney
ESPN.com
Archive
The Oakland Athletics were making steady progress late Thursday night toward a deal that would send veteran shortstop Orlando Cabrera to the Minnesota Twins, a source told ESPN.com.
The Twins have been looking for infield help of late, having spoken with the Pirates about Freddy Sanchez. Cabrera is hitting .280 with four homers and 41 RBI, and he’s batted .377 in the month of July. Cabrera, 34, is signed to a one-year deal, $4 million.
Earlier this week, some Twins players had publicly called for the front office to make moves to augment Minnesota’s playoff chances.
Buster Olney is a senior baseball writer for ESPN The Magazine.
Not a fan of Cabrera. His .280 batting average is largely inflated due to his ridiculous July (in which it jumped 40 points)… and I hate the idea even more as I don’t understand what we’re gaining here. Of the feable interior infield rotation, we’re looking to replace the comparable, and better of the bunch, Harris?
Even though he’s a LH bat, I think I’d rather have Kennedy instead to fix our 2B.
Ultimately, there’s always a sense of excitement with adding pieces, but any of the infield moves mentioned do nothing to fix our bullpen and rotation issues.
Trading for Cabrera–meh. But it wouldn’t be terrible. I’d much rather see a Qualls or a Bell. Or JJ Hardy. Problem is injuries–it’d be hard to trade Perkins or Swarzak to the Brewers now that our rotation is in shambles.
The Twins should be alright. Any deal that is made is just to please the players, and won’t be a big upgrade.
The idea that the FO has “too much going on” to talk to LaVelle is hilarious. Is there any team out there that has done less during the trade deadline than the Twins? Yes, we signed Grudzielanek to a minor league deal.
don’t underestimate the Grudzielanek deal. that could be huge, if he puts up his regular numbers, and if that is not the only move thetwins make.
USAFChief says:July 31st, 2009 at 12:11 am
“dragon: you’re a year behind. It was last year at this time many people wanted Beltre.
This year many said the play was to sign free agent Casey Blake to play third.
Don’t let facts get in your way, though.”
USAF Chief,
You are partially correct. Last year, IT WAS Beltre 24/7.
You might remember that the Twins DID make an offer to Blake. AND, he was the first FA to sign, very early, comparitavely.
I HAVE NOT gone back to the archives, BUT I would expect to find that FA love for Wiggington & Crede, trade love for Beltre.
Regards,
Anyone know why Brian Roberts hasn’t been part of the trade rumors? I thought last year and during the winter he was on the trade block especially to the Cubs. He would look great in a Twins uniforma and in the #2 black hole.
Maybe a Slowey,Casilla, and Valancia would work. Not likely the Twins would even make the call but there has to be a way to upgrade the MI. An no Cabrera isn’t it.
i have to say today was one of souhan’s best!
i think robert’s signed a big contract extension last winter.
trade rumor says the cabara trade is likely. not sure what that means for our 4 million dollor man ss. 2b i guess with harris full time on the bench.
i heard possible prospects to go to oakland for cabrera are bromberg or or ramon santana
“Maybe a Slowey,Casilla, and Valancia would work.”
FOR ROBERTS???? ARE YOU DRUNK????
Well according to USA Today he is making 8 million this year. Haven’t found out his contract length but if it is close to that he would be a better option then Cabrera or what Sanchez would have been.
Sorry but if the Twins do the Cabrera deal it is a waste. He is a FA after this year with no picks allowed for letting him walk.
Hey I am open for ideas on Roberts. Just looking at guys who were available last year or this year.
Maybe getting a veteran guy like Cabrera would help out guys like Casilla and Gomez whom the Twins have had a tough time coaching.
When is it likely they’ll have three All Stars on the team for 3-4 years in a row?
When will they have the best player in baseball, the best closer in baseball, the best run producer in baseball?
If they aren’t willing to build around these guys in their primes, when are they likely to ever build for the present?
Benny W says:
July 30th, 2009 at 8:45 pm
No interest in Delmon Young? Shocking.
Maybe the Twins should trade Delmon to Thrylos 98. He’s the only person who has an interest in him. Maybe they could swap him for one of T98’s pocket protectors…
roberts is signed for 10-13 at 10m yr.
no way the twins would take on 40m in contract, maybe for nicky.
http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.com/
has all the contracts on it for ref.
Roberts signed a 4-year extension @ $10M/per year through 2013.
“When will they have the best player in baseball, the best closer in baseball, the best run producer in baseball?”
When they trade Nick Punto for Albert Pujols.
ok, second best player, but thanks for your contribution
IF not NOW, when will they ever have three sublime talents like they have now? How often will that happen for a team that won’t sign FAs?
Who are the free agent 2Bs going into next season?
Personally, I don’t think this team is one or possibly two pieces away from seriously contending THIS season (beyond a weak division) title… the holes in our roster go much further than an infielder and include our bullpen and now a shambled rotation.
I’m all for making a solid move before the deadline, but not for an O-Cab. I want someone who we plan on keeping for more than a couple months… a rent-a-player for this season makes no sense to me.
MMW…
What(or who I guess) do you honestly think this team needs to add in order to compete for a title “this” season?
mike, I agree with you that they need to make their move soon. I just don’t see any solid moves they can make at this point.
Before Slowey went on the DL I felt that an improvement at one of the MI positions gave them a legitimate shot at holding their own through the post season. Now I feel they are several players away. While that doesn’t preclude them making a serious move, it does change the picture somewhat.
sp? [MWW] … sorry
Now, includes next year….
So, Sanchez would have been ideal. He fixes problems this year and next.
My process remains unchanged, get players that are better than the players we have, that are under control for more than 1 year.
I won’t get into naming names now, as I doubt they’ll do anything meaningful at this point. I doubt they’ll ever do anything I consider significant in terms of acquiring a player in his prime (ability and earning prime both). Given that, I’m not sure why I’d particularly care about anything other than watching the games anymore.
mike, I just don’t see anyone availalbe right now that helps them next year. Given the weak farm system, I think they have to suck it up and pay for a free agent during the offseason.
Given that, I’m not sure why I’d particularly care about anything other than watching the games anymore.
Amen.
I agree, saam, but what would make you think they’ll ever do that, given over 40 years of history of not doing it?
what free agent is out there that is young and cheap? that’s the only way any free agent can be productive and signable by this team
any free agent Twin’s have signed with few exceptions has been washed up old veterans that none of the other 31 teams wanted
“The Oakland Athletics were making steady progress late Thursday night toward a deal that would send veteran shortstop Orlando Cabrera to the Minnesota Twins, a source told ESPN.com.”
What the hell does “steady progress” mean?
The Twins asked for Cabrera and the Athletics have targeted some players that the Twins will not give up?
Once the Athletics have identified ALL the players they have ANY interest in, and the Twins have rejected ALL those possible offers, the steady progress ends at 1 PM today.
sane you make it sound like Twin’s will never give up any prospects under any circumstances?
“what free agent is out there that is young and cheap?”
A “young” free agent is an oxymoron.
A player earns free agency by putting in his years.
Until last year, a “cheap” free agent was also an oxymoron.
if Billy could pull of trading LNP for a bag of chips this blog would explode in delight, the sun would come out, Harris would play SS upgrading MI,
now that’s CHANGE I CAN BELIEVE IN!!
“The Tigers acquired pitcher Jarrod Washburn from the Tigers, according to Mike Salk of ESPN radio Seattle.”
FIRE,
‘you make it sound like Twin’s will never give up any prospects under any circumstances?”
That wasn’t my intention.
But what is “steady” progress in the process which I imagined is taking place?
sane you just made my point about Twin’s signing any productive free agents
I dont understand Seattle’s strategy. Why would they trade for Jack Wilson (seemingly a move to make a push in the AL West) and then trade away Washburn?
As long as the Brewers don’t get Washburn, the Twins MIGHT have a chance to sign him next offseason.
So, while the Tigers getting him would be bad for this year and the Twins, it might not be bad for the future.
How was that for glass half full?
how did Tiggers get Washburn??
I thought their farm system was more destitute then Twin’s 
mike and FIRE, I don’t know who is out there that they would have a real shot at signing. They may need to get creative and do something like sign an OF and then trade Span. (I’m just thinking out loud here.)
I am also becoming rather discouraged. I have defended the FO in the past, but the need for infield help was so obvious and Smith did nothing.
Seattle wanted to take a chance on the pitcher. Wilson comes with him. It also gives them a chance to watch him play for 2 months, and decide if they want to re-sign him or not.
Strangely, some teams have multiple strategies in play at once.
Washburn traded for French and Rubolet -sp? (two Tiger pitchers)
Lucas French (LHP)
Maurico Robles (LHP)
Maybe the M’s think they can flip Wilson to someone else?
That sucks.
And when Washburn leaves after this season, the Tigers will get two draft picks.<br
Detroit gets Washburn for practically nothing.
Maybe Seattle is still fuming about getting Carlos Silva after his stint with the Twins.
Wow, good trade for the Tigers.
Now will go on record as saying the Twins are being cheap and must not have wanted to take on Wasburns contract, because after the trade Detroit made last year to Florida they have no good prospects left, there is no way the Twins should not have been able to make that trade with Seattle, we could have given, any of Blackburn,Perkins,Liriano and 1 or 2 minor league pitchers. The Twins may want to win but they want to win cheap…..I would expect to see alot of quit in this team now unless Smith pulls somthing out of his ass to get, a 2b,rp a starter.
Twins—DO SOMETHING! If Mauer goes because nothing is done (as usual) Fans will go too!
“They may need to get creative and do something like sign an OF and then trade Span”
how is trading their only leadoff caliber hitter and a piece to starting outfield going to improve the team?
I know you frustrated as are most of us save the Twin apologists who think the Pohlad business model is doing great
Twin’s can draft cheaper to sign pitchers and stock pile for a rainy day to fully utilize that stockpile they need to convince other GM’s to give up hitters for them.. look at their lineup how many were drafted by Twin’s - 4 Mauer,Morneau,Span,Cuddy
Did we even inquire into Washburn? They gave up nothing! Those 2 guys are not even in BA’s top 10 of prospects for their org.
Wow we couldn’t offer anything better? Sad
And no I don’t think Cabrera is the answer! It sounds like thinks are getting close there.
FVG– I am pretty sure Kubel was drafted by the Twins also.
If Washburn signs with another team the Tigers would get only one draft pick and only if they offered arbitration.
Really annoying by Seattle to give him to a team rival. Where were all the suitor he apparently had? This can’t be the best deal they had.
Washburn projects as a type B free agent so they will only get one pick for him. It is still a great pickup for the Tigers and a huge blow to the Twins if he can pitch this well for the remainder of the season.
sorry Rick I always forget about the DH yep Kubel was at 1 time the Twin’s top hitting prospect.. glad he is coming on finaly after a devastating injury
Boy you would think we could have done better than that. I mean especially with Slowey going down he would look nice in our rotation.
If we get Cabrera– what happens to Punto, Harris and Casilla? Unless one is included in the trade– the MIF will be crowded. But I am sure Gardy will make sure they all get their at bats (sarc)
I read somewhere that Gardy wants Cabrera– does that mean Punto to second?
Where are the geniuses who will tell us there is no way the Twins could possibly give up what it took to get Washburn?
Semms like Twins were looking at only Cabrera. It seems like it at least. We do need other things like some help in the bullpen and a starting pitcher.
This last 48 hours has really been an indictment as to how far our minor league system has slipped. As we can now see, teams aren’t even interested in what we have besides Valencia and Hicks. Sad.
I must echo….
The Twins couldn’t top that for Washburn??????????????
yep Rick that means LNP to 2nd Harris is best at SS so Gardy will not hesitate to keep Harris on the bench unless Cabrera can play 2nd?
Problem is the minors have already been raided pretty good the last few years by pitching alone.
Well once again the Twins miss the boat on a player. They tried last year to get Washburn and he goes out this year and has a career year. No doubt since he is a Boras client the Twins will be all over him when he files as a FA after Detroit wins the division.
Washburn this year vs. Twins
14 IP 1 ER
My hope is that what is taking so long for the Cabrera deal to finalize is that the Twins are trying to squeeze Weurtz in to the deal as well.
But, hey, who knows. My actual instinct is that Bill Smith is at home laying on the couch watching ESPN. And just found out that all it took to land Washburn were 2 marginal prospects.
“you cannot trade from the prospects for the present” “the other team wanted too much” “the Twins couldn’t have matched that offer” “they need x position more” “making trades is not the Twins’ way” “making trades is not winning the right way”……
This last 48 hours has really been an indictment as to how far our minor league system has slipped. As we can now see, teams aren’t even interested in what we have besides Valencia and Hicks. Sad.
Nicely put.
these 2 guys don’t show up in sickels detroit prospect rating top 20 or the 12 next in line so they maybe 35-50 range prospects for the tigers. no way we can give away prospects like that!
Washburn to Detroit…that makes it tough on the Twins. I think the Twins need a starting pitcher with Slowey out for the year.
I think the Mariners obtaining French is a good fit for them long term. An extreme flyball pitcher who has suppressed HR’s and now will head to a pitchers park with a strong OF.
Plus, he’s just 23.
Getting a guy for the MIF is a need, but Scutaro, O. Cabrera, Kennedy for what? I suppose for the short term I like Scutaro the best, but I would not give up much.
mww, don’t forget “bringing up Jesse Crain is just like making a trade”
That’s right Benny….And don’t forget about “hoping” things is like making a trade too. As in, the Twins are “hoping” Casilla, Crain, Liriano, etc. return to some kind of form. And that “hoping” AAA guys like Duensing, Keppel, etc. are stabilizers for the bullpen.
Just a whole lot of hoping going on. Better than trades.
And the daddy of all, MWW: “Hey, there’s still the waiver wire.”
Just say “No” to Orlando.
usa, good point. I forgot these:
“this is just one deadline. We can still make trades for the next month.”
“the Twins have been successful. They are smareter than us. We need to just trust them”
sigh………………………
LENIII’s story in the Strib is headlined ‘Twins try and try again.”
Talk about your inaccurate headline.
“Twins DON’T EVEN TRY yet again” sounds more like it, no?
I just read that the Tigers acquired Washburn for Luke French and another minor league pitcher. Certainly the Twins could have matched that trade proposal. Washburn could have steadied the rotation, been resigned for next year and been a good influence on the other rotation members. I have been willing to give Smith some latitude but he just doesn’t seem up to the challenge.
Everybody got a pen and paper?? Good. Here we go. In about 4 hours from now, you will hear or see this:
“We worked very hard to identify the right match to improve our club. But, unfortunately, we just couldn’t find that match. We have complete faith in the guys we currently we have. We will continue to seek out ways to improve our club through the waiver process throughout August.”
And, then, at that point, I will head to the bathroom for a while to lose about 8 lbs. in stomach fluid.
I don’t doubt they are trying. I just think they are as good at it as Matt Tolbert is at hitting, or AJ is at throwing out base runners….
I’m not sure what’s more pathetic
1)Twin’s FO doing nothing to improve team
2)us fans thinking that somehow after years of evidence to the contrary that THIS year would be different
2
prospect rating guesses aside, Luke French is probably equal to Swarzak. I don’t know about the other guy.
FIRE,
Well hell I thought the thinly veiled threats by Mauer and Morneau coinciding with the injection of stadium revenue on the horizon would have been enough for the front office to change their M.O.
GCOkemos joke’s on us I guess
SO…should Bill Smith have traded Swarzak + for Washburn?
Get to take on $3.8 mil of sallary, HAVE to offer arbitration to get supplemental pick.
HOW does this help now or in the future?
French=Swarzak…2 Rookie starters with minimal ML experience.
I understand the emotion of the moment, just curious HOW this could have helped?
Regards,
ps: Just shows how stupid Bill Smith was when he took a bat to Slowey’s wrist.
I 2nd Mike’s theory…….Billy Smith is trying but he is just incapable and in way over his head. You can almost picture a typical conversation “Hi this is Billy Smith from the Twins, ah, er, ok, I’ll just say it, what would it take to get Freddy Sanchez from you folks”…….”Billy, we would need Valencia in return”…….”Ah, okey dokey…..click” …….Pitt GM ponders?……click?..no counter offer?…no I’ll get back to ya?…wow
So Twins are going to do nothing after taxpayers pay for part of the new stadium. This is disgusting. Whats is the plan here Twins? What is good about getting a new stadium if you aren’t going to improve?
They’re still playing in the Dome aren’t they?
Not sure how closely French compares to Swarzak, but the Tigers didn’t have to give up an MLB pitcher to get Washburn.
For almost any 2 Twins minor league pitchers I might have made that deal. Regardless it’s a good move for the Tigers even if it isn’t so good for the Twins.
“Hi this is Billy Smith from the Twins, ah, er, ok, I’ll just say it, what would it take to get Freddy Sanchez from you folks”
This is pretty funny.
Dragon La Velle’s thoughts on Washburn going to Tiggers
“Not sure if there’s another starting pitcher out there that the Twins can deal for. But I’m surprised that the Twins couldn’t land Washburn based on what Detroit gave up.”
when the team’s knowledgable beat writer openly questions the Team multiple times on deals not made
it should be obvious it’s not just random rantings from disgruntalled fans
regards
prospect rating guesses aside, Luke French is probably equal to Swarzak
Really? I think you’re just pulling that out of your arse.
Swarzak’s minor league numbers are better than French’s across the board. He’s been rated higher, much higher. He was drafted higher. He’s had more MLB success, although the sample sizes are small for both.
There is no way those two are equal.
French is just as much a MLB pitcher as Swarzak.
He is 1-2 with a 3.38 ERA in five starts for the tigers.
Benny W,
Lucas French born 09/13/1985 6′4″ 220 LHP 7games 5 starts 3.38ERA 29.1IP
MLB Debut May 15, 2009
Anthony Swarzak Born 09/10/1985 6′4″ 225 RHP 8games 8 starts 3.74ERA
MLB Debut May 23, 2009
Other than the Left/right difference, and 3 days of age and 5 lbs of weight, seem quite similar.
Regards,
“the other team wanted too much” “the Twins couldn’t have matched that offer”
I though French looked very decent when he pitched against the Twins this year. I really think that Swarzak and French are about the same in talent.
From MLB Rumors
11:56am: Susan Slusser of the San Francisco Chronicle says Cabrera to the Twins is “very close.”
In a related story the White Sox and Tigers GM were seen shuttering in fear at this development.
12:08pm: Yahoo’s Tim Brown says it’s a done deal, with the Twins sending Tyler Ladenorf to Oakland for Cabrera.
Cabrera, 34, is hitting .280/.318/.365 on the season in 448 plate appearances. He has $1.75MM remaining on his contract, once you factor in a $250K bonus for being dealt. Though he profiles as a Type A free agent after the season, Cabrera’s agent wisely negotiated a clause disallowing his club to offer arbitration. So, no draft picks for the team for the loss and no impediment to signing Cabrera from the player’s point of view.
