Twins-Royals: Postgame
Posted on August 12th, 2009 – 12:03 AMBy La Velle
Could have went so many ways with tonight’s gamer. The Twins’ season is falling apart, and it’s happening pitch by pitch, blast by blast, walk by walk.
Nick Blackburn sounded like a man on edge after the game.
“That wasn’t much fun. It’s getting kind of old, going out there and not feeling myself. Hopefully we can get something figured out soon,” he said. “Everything feels great. I think right now, my pitches are a little flat and up and we just have to figure out what it is.
“I know I can get guys out. I know I can pitch at this level. It is a matter of getting back to where I’m comfortable and where I should be.
“Some sort of adjustment needs to be made.
“I don’t notice any different than the beginning of the season. My arm feels good and feels strong. Something mechanically I have to deal with right now.
“To go out there and throw 1.2 innings is not going to be easy to take. It’s embarrassing and it’s frustrating. Just to be honest,, I’m getting tired of these outings.”
The 3 hour, 36 minute game destroyed deadline, then the few minutes I had left over were taken up by Bill Smith and Ron Gardenhire meeting in Gardy’s office.
(Strange moment after the game. We’re standing in the hallway waiting for the clubhouse to open. Carlos Gomez and Alexi Casilla walk out of the back entrance. Gomez has his shirt in his hands and is putting it on while walking down the hallway. Talk about wanting to get out of there…).
With Bob Marley music playing in the background, Gardy tells us that Glen Perkins is headed to the DL with shoulder tendinitis. They didn’t announce who was coming up.
My well-educated guess is that Jeff Manship will be the choice. He’s 4-2 with a 4.22 ERA in eight starts, and IIRC,he’s coming off a gem last week. The Twins probably will have him work out of the bullpen, but he could start if they decide to come up with a reason to put Francisco Liriano on the DL.
Good night…
106 Responses to "Twins-Royals: Postgame"
I’d love to see the Twins call up Manship. Great guy!
It’s close to over. But, if Blackburn doesn’t figure things out fast, it is over.
Liriano hasn’t pitched for quite awhile, so we really have no idea what to expect from him. Twins need a guy that can throw 5+ innings out of the bullpen, and no one else could. Manship is scheduled to pitch for the Red Wings Wednesday night, so he’s on schedule.
Depending upon how Liriano does, you could DL him and keep Manship around, or later in the week, you could send him back down and bring up a Slama/Delaney for short relief duties.
Call up as many prospects as you can. This season is toast. They are 5 games under 500. Done for the year. See how the prospects do.
The way this season is winding down could be the best thing to happen to this club.
There will be no more lame excuses for BS and the rest of theTwins “braintrust”, as this pitching staff is horrible and they will be forced to make some moves in the off-season.
Remember the good old days, pre-ASG, when the club’s biggest problems were LNP and a 8th inning guy?
Sheesh, that seems like a long time ago…
Wouldn’t bringing Mulvey back make more sense? Manship’s numbers don’t inspire much confidence. I doubt that 5.4 K/9 is going to cut it in the majors.
Twins need a guy that can throw 5+ innings out of the bullpen,
every day?
*sigh*
Hopefully Smith was putting Gardy out of his and our misery
Twins needs a starting pitcher who can throw 5+ innings.
I’m dying. My Twins are tanking right now. Dear God, throw them a lifeline.
Wade are you smoking something. It isn”t Gardys fault.. 2nd winning manager in Twins history…
Over achiever and staff believed it would follow,
Keep Mr. Pavanno. Cabrerra, and bring in another pitcher to eat up innings.
Win Twins!
Greg, he has lost this team…they look scared and lifeless out there…
In other news, former Twins minor leaguer Trent Oeltjen is up with the Diamondbacks and is batting 12/24 (.500) with 6 runs, 3 homers, 3 rbi and 2 stolen bases… in 5 games.
I think those numbers would rank middle of the pack on the current roster we’re throwing out there.
I’m as big of Twins fan as they come, but the more studied I become of other organizations, you start to see missteps this organization has made over the last 10 years that extend well beyond trading Delmon Young for a shortstop that has an outside chance of doubling as a league MVP this year (if the Rays contend through September).
The Twins are still in this, our division is horrible. Multiple stat gurus had our division pegged at fastest to ‘85 wins’ takes the cake, and its looking like thats what its gonna be.
I think bringing Manship up is a great idea, keep the revolving door rolling until someone decides to step out of sync and throw a good game.
The team is playing defeated right now, teams that have nothing to lose are playing at the top of their game. Padres, Royals, Pirates & D-Backs all have put together some solid games as of late. This club needs to relieve the pressure and resort back to actually having fun out there, because its obvious no one is.
Have you been in the clubhouse wade? What things ‘look’ like and how they really are is 2 different things. Alot of armchair managers in here.
When do the Wild start training camp???
This team is killing me!!!
At some point, we seriously have to ask how much longer Rich Anderson should be leading this group. The bullpen is horrible because Billy Smith didn’t address it at all in the off-season. The starters have been horrible this year because of leadership, and that comes from the pitching coach. The longer they’re here, the worse they get. I mean, other than his miracle with Latroy Hawkins, this guy’s never really done all that much, like his manager buddy, no matter how much credit he gets.
It’s time to clean house. Only Jerry White should be allowed to stay. The rest, get them the hell out of dodge.
Really, in what other organization would a pitching coach with this record overseeing pitchers (discounting the numbers put up by TK boys Radke and Johan) still have a job? In what other organization would stiffs like Punto and Casilla still have roster spots? In what other organization would a guy like Jesse Crain be released and then brought back for more fan torture? In what other organization would Bobby Keppel have ever gotten another chance???
Fire them all! This is so ridiculous that you can almost see them doing nothing in the off-season, knowing they have the new ballpark to draw fans for another couple years, no matter how bad they are. And, looking at the situation right now, you KNOW Nick Punto will be an everyday shortstop next year and that Alexi Casilla will be the second baseman. Gone will be Crede, with David Valencia in reality nowhere near ready for this level of play as he continues to die a slow death in AAA. Gone will be Cabrera as well. Gone will be Pavano.
Fire the whole staff now, including Billy Boy!!
Any chance the Twins go after Justin Speier?
BTW, Greg, Nora, it is Gardy’s fault! That’s why they call him a “manager”; because he’s SUPPOSED to “manage” the situation.
Other than the miracle of 2006, in which everyone played out of their head, he’s done little. The first three division championships belong to Tom Kelly’s group of A.J., Dougie, Koskie, Torii, Jacques, Guzie, Radke, Johan, and even Eddie G., Latroy, and Milton, to a degree.
Once the majority of them left, it was time for lazy-ass Gardy’s mediocre crap. He hates to teach. TK loved to teach. Gardy hate it, and that’s why Gardy is a worthless manager.
Here’s the deal. Gardy should have never had the job in the first place. It should have gone to Scotty Ullger, perhaps even Molitor, both much better baseball minds. Scotty’s minor league record, at every level, was unrivaled. In fact, in 1994, Baseball America labeled him the #1 big league managerial prospect in all of baseball.
Molitor has a brillant baseball mind, and many agree he’d make a wonderful manager.
But, Gardy got the job.
You want to rave about Gardy. Well, rave about this, about last year, about 2007, about 2005, because that’s the REAL Gardy. That’s the guy we get to see year in, year out now, and it’s not impressive at all.
Gardenhire is, without question, the most overrated manager in baseball today. In fact, he might be the most overrated in professional sports.
I always hear the phrase “you can’t fire the players.”
That being said, I understand it’s not Gardy going out there and getting lit up in the mound or swinging at pitches in the dirt.
But ultimately in sports someone has to be made responsible.
I have said before Gardy looks disinterested. He apparently doesn’t get fired up unless it’s at an umpire. At the dome he seems to sit a lot and he just looks burned out.
If Gardy sticks around he needs to shake up the staff. I actually think Vavra is mostly safe, but Anderson may need to go. I have seen varying opinions that Anderson tries to get every Twins pitcher to throw his way, the cookie cutter approach. Well that doesn’t work and for some reason that’s why I feel Pavano looked good the other night-he hasn’t been working with Anderson to get messed up!
Go with a pitchers strengths! Don’t scare them into not throwing balls and maybe walking someone.
Anderson needs to go-I hope this doesn’t become like Dick Such who always seem to coast along for years.
Agreed on Anderson, if he is so good why do the Twins send pitchers down to work with Cuellar when they are out of sorts. Bring Cuellar to the big club.
“how much longer Rich Anderson should be leading this group”
-Rick Anderson
“The bullpen is horrible because Billy Smith didn’t address it at all in the off-season.”
-Signed Ayala and Jason Jones. Offered arbitration to Dennys Reyes. His efforts in this regard failed. He also gave up on Breslow way too soon.
“The starters have been horrible this year because of leadership, and that comes from the pitching coach. ”
-April, Baker and Bonser to the DL. June, Perkins to the DL. July, Slowey to the DL. August, Perkins to the DL again. Liriano has missed a number of starts without a DL visit. As fans, we tend to project automatic improvement (he won 10 games last year, he should be good for 13 this year.) Sometimes, especially with injuries, guys have a bad year. A whole bunch of the arms on this staff have had injuries and inconsistency.
“other than his miracle with Latroy Hawkins, this guy’s never really done all that much”
-Dennys Reyes 2005, 5.15 ERA with San Diego. 2006, 0.89 ERA with MN.
In 2008, Craig Breslow came to the Twins with a career 2.95 ERA. He had a 1.63 ERA for the rest of ‘08.
Last year, he got 10+ wins out of 5 different starters.
Carlos Silva’s ERA as a Twin= 4.42
Carlos Silva’s ERA as a Mariner=6.77
“Really, in what other organization would a pitching coach with this record overseeing pitchers (discounting the numbers put up by TK boys Radke and Johan) still have a job?”
-Johan was a reliever with a career ERA of 5.90 when Rick Anderson became pitching coach. All his years of dominant starting pitching came during Anderson’s tenure.
“David Valencia in reality nowhere near ready for this level of play as he continues to die a slow death in AAA.”
-DANNY Valencia’s “slow death” in AAA:
all of 44 games, .288 avg, 5 HR, .466 SLG.
“why do the Twins send pitchers down to work with Cuellar when they are out of sorts?
-The minor league affiliates’ primary job is to help the major league team, not to win games. They can give a pitcher any innings that can be beneficial to him without regard for win-loss record. For example, if a rehabbing starter needs to throw 60 pitches in a game and he gives up 5 earned runs in the first, he’d be pulled in the majors, but he’d get to keep throwing in AAA because what matters is what’s best for the big club.
The highlight of last night’s game for me… the girl who was featured on FSN with Marney holding up her butchered “Cirle Me Bert” sign. And on the radio, John and Dazzle spent the entire second inning talking to some PGA golfer and didn’t even do play-by-play. Not even an little commentary at the end of an at-bat! It was literally an interview with the golfer the entire inning, and then, “oh by the way, KC has scored two more and Blackburn is leaving the game.”
On a side note… the Twins as a business have to feel pretty fortunate that attendance is up this much in a year when the team has drastically underperformed in a down economy. I can’t believe they’re selling out the lower bowl on a Tuesday in August vs. KC at several games under .500.
“Once the majority of them left, it was time for lazy-ass Gardy’s mediocre crap. He hates to teach. TK loved to teach. Gardy hate it, and that’s why Gardy is a worthless manager.”
-Do you realize that for 8 years straight (93-2000), TK’s teams finished no better than 4th in their division (4 of those years, they finished 5th). In his final year (’01), they finished 2nd.
Gardenhire took over in 2002:
‘02 finished 1st
‘03 finished 1st
‘04 finished 1st
‘05 finished 3rd
‘06 finished 1st
‘07 finished 3rd
‘08 finished 2nd
I see no 4th place or 5th place finishes. If the manager has an impact on record, this guy is very successful.
Accept a bad year for what it is, a bad year. The team and the whole world knows the pitching needs to improve next year. Do you dump some young arms and buy some help? Do you give a few guys a mulligan and hope they can get back on track with a fresh start in 2010?
I’m undecided, and it really doesn’t matter because, like you all, I’m an observer.
Boy everyone here has all the answers. The problem isn’t the manager the problem is we don’t have the talent pool needed to compete on a regular basis. Starting pitching has been poor at best, and Punto needs to be in Rochester if not lower. The problem is, who do we play instead? Casilla can’t find confidence, Harris continues to have to cover for Crede who has been a bust from a playing stand point. When he has been in, the power numbers are there but that is about it. The Twins are going to have to shake up policy a bit and fill from outside a little bit this coming offseason. Our talent pool in the organization is a bit low right now. Let’s see if Bill Smith has a good trade in him this offseason. He hasn’t pulled off a good “Ryan” trade yet. Let’s see if we can pull the wool over another GM’s eyes and get a great deal somewhere.
Danny Valencia’s “slow death” in the minors (combining AA and AAA) this year:
.286, 381 AB, 28 2B, 12 HR, .475 SLG, .823 OPS
On the big league team, only Mauer, Morneau, Kubel and Cuddyer have higher than an .823 OPS this year.
Of course, that’s comparing minor league stats to major league stats, but he hasn’t exactly been struggling.
Bob Marley again huh? They should’ve been locked out of the locker room and forced to drive home in their uniforms after that debacle last night.
And Rick Anderson should lose the locker room key all together.
I like Lala72’s thinking….LET’S GET MOLITOR in there! Yes the players have to perform, but when there is a lack of fight which has been all to often this year, a change is needed. Molitor is the man to get it done.
Good thing this 2nd half is the easier part of the schedule! LOL WOW
Molitor as GM; Carew as Manager; Oliva as Bench Coach; Blyleven as Pitching Coach…
“Could have went…”. The Twins need ballplayers and the Trib needs someone who has basic knowledge of the English language and it is not you.
The ownership needs to take a serious look at Billy Smith’s job so far. I know we all had high hopes for our starting five this season, but it was foolish to go in to the season with no other starting options besides possibly Swarzak and an empty cupboard in the minors.
Lavelle made a great point on the radio the other day about the “talent pool” issue. He named a bunch of their draftees from ‘03 and ‘04. Their top picks haven’t panned out and the backlash is hitting now. Smith tried to patch this hole with trades, but they have failed. This team’s success is predicated on drafting well, and they didn’t succeed in ‘03 or ‘04.
From the 2003 draft, only Scott Baker has helped the Twins. Matt Moses was their sole first round pick.
2004 gave us Perkins, Swarzak and Tolbert, BUT, they had 5 1st round picks that year. Trevor Plouffe, Matt Fox, Kyle Waldrop and Jay Rainville haven’t helped the big league team.
There now appear to be a few players wanting to get the heck out of town… well, let them.
I think the whole team looks listless. It is the manager’s job to keep his players ready to play. I know they are professionals but they are (for the most part) young adults who still need an occasional kick in the pants. That would be Gardy’s responsibility and he does not appear to be good at that. Need a change.
SoCal:
Who are you referring to?
Seth Speaks is reporting Manship is on his way to Minneapolis to take Perkins’ spot on the roster.
coyotetom– read Lavelle’s article–Gomez and Casilla
This team lacks heart.
Including the good players.
Response to Marty McFly…God only loves the Yankees! Teams like the Twins don’t exist in the eyes of God or the commissioner of baseball who thinks he is the second coming.
my view is both the team and the manager are totally disheartened by the clear impression that the Pohlads and Bill Smith have absolutely no interest in improving this team and never will. The Pohlads are sitting on their pile of money knowing people will come anyway to the new stadium paid for on the backs of taxpayers.
Hey, as a buddy of mine said last night, “at least we don’t have to go to cleveland to see crappy baseball.”
No interest in improving the team? Have you heard of Orlando Cabrera and Carl Pavano? Sure, you can say the only reason we got those guys was to please Mauer, Morneau, and Nathan, but we got them didn’t we? We obviously need more help than that, but saying they have no interest in improving the team is BS. Hmmm. BS. Yeah, maybe you’re right.
How about making legit quality moves between the months of Dec and Feb.
Cabrera and Pavano are band-aids for his earlier poor decisions and there lack of adding quality major leaguers between the months of Dec-Feb.. Bill “Retread” SMith
Retreads thats all the Twins go after
“I don’t notice any different than the beginning of the season. My arm feels good and feels strong. Something mechanically I have to deal with right now.” - Blackburn
It’s the pitching coach’s job to see what’s wrong, mechanically, mentally, or strategically. If Rick Anderson can not do that, it should Buh-bye time. One pitcher might be a lingering injury or other personal problem, but when the whole staff melts down, it seems to me that you just have to look at the coach.
They should make good on their commitment to spend more when they get in the new stadium. That IS what they said right?? They made no commitment to spend b4 they got into the new stadium as far as I’m aware
Liriano’s mechanics are bad, then Baker’s mechanics are bad, now Blackburn’s mechanics are bad?
People were crying for Vavra’s head when the young team wasn’t hitting good.
Now that they’re older and tearing the cover off the ball he’s cool.
Anderson has a bunch of young pitchers to work with and teams know them better than last year so they are loosing confidence when getting knocked around a ton. Injuries to Slowey and Perkins, Liriano throwing batting practice and now that Blackburn probably feels like he has to carry the whole pitching staff makes for a very bad year. Anderson is one of the best pitching coaches out there getting rid of him would just be another stupid move by BS (I don’t think getting rid of coaches is the answer)
Forget the season…it is over. Do as the earlier comments suggest…bring up some fresh talent and see what they can do, it can’t get any worse!
Our pitchers have bad mechanics which I agree with. Who is supposed to solve and help them with this, a PITCHING COACH! We need a PITCHING COACH, I don’t like him smiling and showing no emotion on the bench or to his players…aren’t you competitive?!
“Anderson is one of the best pitching coaches out there”
How do we know this? I’m not saying he isn’t one of the best, but how do we know if he is any better than any other pitching coach? A couple of examples of pitchers who have done better (or worse) under Rick Anderson doesn’t mean much one way or the other unless you can show that the same isn’t true of other coaches.
On a positive note … at least Delmon is hitting the ball with some power … he reminds me a lot of Carlos Quentin … Quentin was a rookie at 23 and hit .253 with 9 HRs and then at age 24 hit .214 with 5 HRs - after that a light bulb went off and he hit .288 with 36 HRs. Hopefully that light bulb is going off now for Delmon.
Rick Blaine 8:00 - Players not wanting to talk to the media does not imply they no longer want to play for the Twins.
“Hopefully that light bulb is going off now for Delmon.”
IF I had a dollar for every time I heard this…
Call Me Stupid,
You are correct. There are two major components to pitching: the mental and the physical. With young pitchers, the mental part can be the biggest hurdle they have to clear. Blackburn was not pitching smart last night. He got behind in the count and then panicked. Then he threw the ball right over the center of the plate and BAM! Most of the pitches he was missing on early in the count were outside. He wasn’t coming inside at all to move them off the plate. He got so focused on just getting the ball over the plate, he was serving up batting practice.
I think its safe to say the whole pitching department is reeling right now. There is enough blame to pass around the entire organization. To try to pinpoint it to one guy is an exercise in futility.
ES16:
thats a pretty fair assessment. When he couldn’t hit that down and away spot, I knew he was in for a short start. He just couldn’t hit that spot last night.
fcmlefty I agree with your assesment and I’ve never been one to rip on the manager or coaches but i can’t help but wonder what Anderson and Gardy are doing to help right this ship.
fcmlefty,
Success and failure at the team level in baseball is contagious. A few bad pitching performances in a row puts more pressure on the next pitcher, who tries to do too much (overthrowing, etc); then the next pitcher, who failed his last time out, puts more pressure on himself to have a good outing and it goes on and on and on…
ES16
Your right. I guess I’m not surprised by the struggles of all these young pitchers but i still think it’s the mgr/coaches job to make this a learning experience instead of a complete disaster.
it would appear that when they win it’s because of the greatness of gardy and his coaches and when they don’t it’s because of bad players. as long as that keeps getting sold as the truth we remain a mediocre team. it’s closing in on 3 years of mediocre baseball now. if that makes you happy keep what you have in place!
Popriveter’s 7:50 reference to LEN’s comment about “talent pool” is on the mark. Beyond this year we are perilously close to falling into a years long also ran status. So-so drafts, the struggles of our system’s recent top prospects (the pitchers), failure to convert trading chips (Santana, Garza) into much and the inexplicable trading of Bartlett have put us in a position to need to rebuild.
The Sox and Tigers have done an admirable job of rebuilding on the fly. The Sox, in particular, have gotten young and fast. Is Bill Smith up to the task?
We have only one potential impact player near major league ready (Valencia). To build on the fly we need to add pieces beyond replacing Crede/Cabrera/Pavano. With a new stadium and Mauer/Morneau in their prime that seems the only option.
Still, if Billy can’t pull it off we need to throw in the towel and start over. The alternative is going years without being in contention.
Lala, my understanding is that Molitor was the Twin’s 1st choice but when approached he said he did not want the job. Gardy was their 2nd choice.
Regardless of whether Gardy might have been a good manager for this team at some point, he and Anderson have clearly lost their players. I think Jacque Lemaire was and is a great hockey coach, but does that mean he should have kept the Wild job forever? No. Being the great coach that he is, he looked around and realized he had lost his players. They were not listening to him anymore so he did the very right thing for the good of the organization by stepping down. I wish Gardy had that same courage - but you can see it with his scared look in the dugout when we play the Red Sox or Yanks and you can see it by how he calls out players individually in the press: Gardy lacks that courage.
As far as Anderson exiting, we all know how gardenhire treats his little buddies, worthy or not.
Hockey Anybody?? Your right “Greatski”, time to move on to Wild training camp.
Baseballs to Pucks! From LaVelle to Russo’s Rants.
This team has gone downhill in fundamental skills since Tom Kelly left. These players still need to be taught and it ain’t happening. They all, with the exception of Cabrera and Mauer and a little DY lately, look lifeless and clueless. Gardy and Anderson need to go. Keep Ulger, White, and possibly Vavra (hitting hasn’t been the biggest problem).
When are the Twins going to call up Mark Grudxnxnfnynek????? Oh, never mind.
Maybe Kurt Rambis can pitch.
There is enough blame to pass around the entire organization. To try to pinpoint it to one guy is an exercise in futility.
But to the average Striber, it’s too difficult to wrap one’s head around the concept that maybe (just maybe) this failure is a team effort…
Though it is fun to whine about one specific person over and over to LOOK smart.
“we just have to figure out what it is.“
“Some sort of adjustment needs to be made.“
“Something mechanically I have to deal with right now.“
Aren’t all of those, by definition, Rick Anderson’s job?! If my performance at work was this terrible, I’d be in big trouble.
This is Gardenhire’s eighth season as manager and if the Twins finish below .500 it will be the second time (the first was 2007 when they went 79-83 which isn’t terrible). The Twins are in contention every year and win the division half the time–that is an excellent record.
And if he has “lost the players” then why are Mauer, Morneau, and Kubel having career years? Why are Span and Cuddyer having great years?
If you want to look at the Twins problems, Gardenhire isn’t anywhere near the top of the list.
1. Slowey injured
2. Perkins injured/ineffective
3. Liriano ineffective
4. Blackburn ineffective
5. Crain, Keppel, Dickey ineffective
6. Casilla playing poorly
Winning a division is just hunky dory, but it is time to move beyond that. We are going backwards. We have won in a division that has been pretty bad at times. This team is just not fundamentally sound anymore from fielding to base running to bunting. Gardy does not make sure of fundamental soundness. The so-called Twins Way was TK’s way, not Gardy’s.
Matt,
Certain players just can transcend the other failures of the team. Johan Santana is a prime example. He has pitched pretty well with the Mets but they so many other issues they stink.
If the Twins don’t lay the blame with Gardy or Anderson, then they need to get rid of the dead weight, such as Perkins, Liriano, Punto, Keppel, Crain, and Casilla.
I agree with randi-time to stop thinking winning the almighty AL Central is the pinnacle of a good season. Other than 2006 the Twins won a pretty bad division and the was really obvious in the playoff chokes in 2003 and 2004.
Oh, and BTW, the pitching sucks…
Wade doesn’t know baseball. Any team would look lifeless when you’re playing behind the kind of pitching the Twins have been getting. It all begins with pitching, period! Did the Twins look lifeless behind Pavano the other night? Was Gardy a better manager when Pavano pitched his shutout? Get a clue Wade.
To Shaun:
The problem is, I don’t think some of those guys are dead weight. Guys like Casilla and Liriano have potential but for one reason or another it’s not being realized here.
Shaun,
I was responding to the claim that Gardy has “lost the players” which I think is just silly. Lots of guys are playing great. Has he only “lost” the bad players? Also, basically everyone but Morneau and Nathan are playing for future jobs or future contracts and are highly motivated.
It is ridiculous to blame the manager for a team looking lifeless when the starter gets shelled–as has been the case quite often lately.
Haha to everyone suggesting Anderson and Gardenhire to go. Though Gardenhire does make a lot of bone-headed decisions, he’s not the one going out there and serving up meatballs to the opponents. All the blame needs to go on the pitching. End of story.
Gardenhire has managed some the of the best Twins in the history of the franchise (Mauer, Morneau, Santana, Nathan, Hunter) and has nothing to show for it except for a few playoff failures.
That game was embarrassing to be at last night and we had 5 KC fans right behind us that wouldn’t shut up.
Anyway, I think it’s kind of hard to blame Anderson for the staff when most of the starters had pretty promising years last year. I don’t think he probably did anything different. I think Gardy can definitely be questioned for his bullpen use and for writing LNP in the lineup 6 days a week. Bill Smith KNEW we had a weak bullpen and didn’t address it. By the end of June he should have known we had a weak starting staff and adjusted by acquiring someone. Carl Pavano in August doesn’t count either, we needed help before and still do.
Blyleven as pitching coach! That’s a good one! There is no way in hell he would want that job.
Dan,
Do you think they would benefit from the old change of scenery?
Matt,
This is probably apples to oranges, but I am in management at my job. One important aspect of my job is keeping morale up and motivating my team, in addition to the day to day duties.
Now, if Gardy isn’t working to address issues or is doing so in a manner which isn’t working, then that is on him.
If its the players who aren’t responding despite good coaching, then there has to be consequences for them.
Matt, could you make anymore excuses for gardy? You forgot one….GARDY=ineffective! It’s still about playing with fire, and it is the managers job to get them fired up. The pirhana days seem to be long gone. We need to get some new help and Molitor is the guy!
There has been no better example of a lapdog than the years of Dick Such (A strong temptation to misspell his name). Radke (on one of his bad days) said Such came out to the mound with this sterling advice. “Throw strikes. You’re pi@@ing off the manager.” Wow!! Sheer coaching genius! When the front office wanted to fire Such, Kelly threatened to quit. They should have let him go.
It is ,indeed, Anderson’s JOB to analyze pitching mechanics and try to correct what it being done wrong. It is Gardy’s JOB to make sure that Anderson (and the rest of the coaches) are doing their job. If he needs to get in their faces to do that, he needs to do it instead of trying to be everybody’s friend.
There is nothing more divisive, in any organization, than a boss who has favorites. The workers who aren’t on the list quickly get discouraged and apathetic. As far as I am concerned, Gardy’s “manlove” for Punto is reason enough to get rid if Gardy
If Manship is being called up to replace Perkins, who is getting bumped to make room on the 40-man roster? Or is Slowey going to get moved to the 60-day DL?
a little perspective:
the twins are now as close to the indians as they are to the tigers!!!
gobble,
I noticed that. Go figure that the Indians do a fire sale and then play better baseball.
Earlier in the year Bill Smith patted himself on the back, in Sid’s column, for holding on to Span instead of dealing him at a deadline to improve the squad. Good move? Yes. Note:Also untouchable at the deadline last year Perkins, Blackburn, Liriano, Baker. Blackburn and Perkins were never considered by baseball people to be big prospects with great stuff yet their value was high due to good early numbers. Now there value has shrunk because low velocity and little movement catches up. Bill Smith is a fat moron. That much can’t be argued.
The problem is the team continues to go out and make the same misatkes over and over again. Gardenhire fails to address the problem and correct it. Gardenhire has lost control of his team and players won’t play hard for a guy they don’t respect. Tick tock because Gardenhire and Smith’s future are on thin ice if this continues. Target Field is not sold out yet. Big changes need to be made to improve this club for next year.
at this point in the season, player merit should be the decider. for example: 1. delmon should never push kubel or span out of the lineup. 2. delmon should never push gomez out of the outfield. 3. punto should never push harris out of the lineup. 4. crede should never push harris out of the lineup. 5. liriano should never push the top minor league prospects out of the rotation. and for gods sake mauer should ALWAYS hit 2nd in the order. kubel should ALWAYS hit in front of morneau because he kills fastballs and waffs on breaking balls.
i wonder, is bill smith or someone saying to gardy “put crede at 3rd base today; after all we’re paying him 2.5$ mil!” if thats the case, then management needs to change. if gardy is the one making asinine calls like that, then he is playing favorites and not managing according to players’ merit and should be fired.
Slowey will go to the 60-day DL (official release off the main website)
I believe Milwaukee has sent JJ Hardy to the minors and recalled Escobar.
I’ve been saying ‘buy low’ on Hardy all season. Make it happen Bill. Make it happen.
There’s your shortstop for the next half decade.
They sent Hardy down, designated Hall and fired their pitching coach after a strech slightly better than the Twins…. but they are still in the playoff chase, oh wait….
one team wants to win and one team wants to compete! well kind of compete. we can compete if everyone else really sucks.
I am with you Chief! I wanted Hardy going into this year. Plus I think he is flexible enough to be moved to 3B or 2B if needed. I think the Brewers had that in the back of their mind to get their top prospect up next year.
Don’t blame it all on pour pitching. The entire team sucks………
Where of where is Crede?????
Can we stop the Delmon experiment now?
He and Gardy need to go!!!
I don’t believe Gardenhire should be completely left off the hook for the this dismall season. But with his past record he certainly deserves another season.
I understand that the Angels and Mets overpaid for Hunter and Santana, however who is the leader of this team. Not one pitcher hasv even remotely taking the role of an ace. Not one position player has shown any signs of being a leader. The team seems to have lost the chemistry they had when they were going to be contracted.
I know it sounds loke a broken record, but the blame should start with the lameas* GM. He should shoulder the blunt of the responsibility for the lack of pitching depth in the entire organization. After all he made the trades of Santana and Garza and received no value in return.
If anyone should go he would be my first choice.
I find it fairly amusing how when things are going good everyone says how great a job Gardy and Anderson do and when things go bad they say how bad they are. Last year this same group of pitchers supposedly “overachieved” and the “young” and “inexperienced” players were able to keep the team in the race until the end and a lot of credit by the fans was given to Gardy and Anderson for their ability to get the most out of the players. Did they lose that ability this year? Naw, I think these guys are just sucking it up. Maybe it has more to do with the fact we lost Knapp to the Tigers, is that why the pitching sucks? He hasn’t been there to mould the guys through the minor leagues. Naw, I don’t think that’s it either. While I don’t always agree with Gardy and the things he does, I think its pretty harsh to blame this all on him when what this really comes down to is performance of the players on the field.
While I don’t always agree with Gardy and the things he does, I think its pretty harsh to blame this all on him when what this really comes down to is performance of the players on the field.
The reality is that this manager does not get the most of his players this season. Someone should be held accountable for that and unless you want to turn your team into Cleveland or Pittsburgh, your manager (and coaches) has to go.
I think its hard for you to ask for more out of guys like Mauer, Morneau, Cuddy, Kubel, Nathan, and a few others who are having anywhere from incredible to mostly respectable seasons. I think its also hard to speculate that another manager could get more out of players like Crain, Keppel, Punto, Casilla, Young and others who simply are not very good. It’s fine to criticize Gardy for losing control over this team, which to some degree i agree with, but I dont agree that he is the singular person that needs to be held accountable and I would be pretty disappointed if they fired him based on what has happened this season.
“It would appear that when they win it’s because of the greatness of gardy and his coaches and when they don’t it’s because of bad players.
I’d say that argument is about 50/50. The same could be said when they win, it has nothing to do with Gardenhire and when they lose, he’s to blame.
Someone said it earlier on this board and as short and sweet as it is, it was dead on… the team is in this position because of pitching(primarily the rotation), end of story.
Injuries and youth are the reality, not Gardy and Andy getting exposed as bad coaches. I would be dissapointed to see the coaching staff get let go due to more factors than they have controll over
Injuries and youth are the reality, not Gardy and Andy getting exposed as bad coaches.
Really?
The same players a year younger last season had a better season as a team and individually.
They screwed Blackburn by messing with his schedule. Ever since then he has sucked. Blame that not the pitcher, they are creachers of habit.
the team is in this position because of pitching(primarily the rotation), end of story.
I don’t think it’s the end of the story.
Clearly the pitching–primarily the rotation–recently melted down, and you just can’t overcome any extended stretch like that.
But it’s false to believe starting pitching has been the only problem this year. It’s also false to claim starting pitching has let the team down all year.
This team had an excellent 3.31 team ERA in June…and managed to turn that into a 15-12 record.
They had a respectable 4.43 team ERA in May, and turned that into a 14-16 record.
I don’t much hold Bill Smith responsible for the meltdown of the starting pitching. I don’t think that was forseeable, and I’m not really sure what he could have done to prevent it anyway.
But there are deep flaws in the bullpen that have plagued them for 2 seasons now, and he seems incapable or unwilling to make any adept moves to fix that.
There is no excuse for handing Nick Punto $8M dollars with the expectation that he can be your starting shortstop for 2 seasons. None.
There are no excuses for the trades he’s made. None.
Having Crede is certainly better than NOT having Crede, but in no way was signing him for one year better than other alternatives.
The outfield situation is a mess, and the team is really no closer to knowing who it’s outfield will be in 2010 than they were in 2008.
Yeah, the starting pitching has sucked lately, and that’s an understatement. But that’s not the sole reason this team is 4 games under .500. They have been a .500 team all season, even while getting good pitching.
Great post chief.
Thrylos-
You can not fire a coach every time the team underperforms. The Twins tied for the division last year after 162 games. They were not expected to even compete for the division. The Tigers were horrible last year with a lineup that looked packed with all stars. Does that make Leyland a bad coach? Should he have been canned? I certainly haven’t been in love with a lot of Gardy’s moves or comments this year (seems like he makes a lot of excuses), but it’s pretty hard to take anything you say about him seriously when everything you post is so one sided. He has to make due with the team he’s given, and right now it looks like we have a bunch of AAA and (should be) DFA players on our team.
LAVELLE:
Maybe your Twins season is falling apart, but I didn’t give up or quit following them til the last out in 2008 and I’m not quitting on them this season either. I don’t give a dam if they don’t make the playoffs or world series.
There, I said it.
