Twins-Rangers: Postgame
Posted on August 28th, 2009 – 11:32 PMBy La Velle
ROSTER MOVES
After the game, the Twins placed third baseman Joe Crede on the 15-day DL because his back is going to need a few more days of rest. But Twins manager Ron Gardenhire added that Crede was going to have a second epidural. The first shot went into the top of the problem. The next one will go in the other side.
And Crede wasn’t moving all the great as we saw him leave out the players’ entrance to the clubhouse while we waited to be allowed in.
Catcher Jose Morales was called up to replace Crede. Morales was 3 for 4 on Thursday to raise his average to .329 at Class AAA Rochester.
The Twins also sent righthander Armando Gabino back to Rochester. This will clear space on the major league roster for the arrival of Ron Mahay, which is expected to be announced Saturday. No word on what 40-man move they will make.
TUESDAY’S STARTER
Gardenhire hinted strongly that righthander Jeff Manship will get his first-ever major league start on Tuesday against the White Sox.
That, of course, could change if the Twins, ahem, acquire another pitcher before then.
Monday will be an interesting day, with waivers expiring on Rich Harden and Brad Penny. I think the Twins have a way better chance at landing Penny. Carl Pavano, his former Florida teammate, apparently likes it here and would make it easy for Penny to fit in.
One scout at the game tonight did say that Penny is better suited for the National League.
ABOUT RAUCH
Twins General Manager Bill Smith pointed out that new Twin Jon Rauch led the majors in appearances over the last three years.
Rauch also is set to make $2.9 million next season, so he’ll be in the bullpen mix.
“It helps,” Smith said, “We’re pleased about that. We’re glad to have him the rest of this year and next year.”
That also tips their hand a little about what the expect from righthander Pat Neshek next year - nothing.
Neshek hasn’t pitched since May of 2008 because of elbow problems. Club officials have told me that the safe route is to not expect Neshek to be available until he proves he’s available. By not counting on him, there’s no pressure on him to rush back.
PERK UPDATE
Lefthander Glen Perkins will throw an inning for the Gulf Coast League Twins on Saturday as he works his way back from shoulder problems. The Twins are going to be patient with Perkins too, to make sure there’s no more setbacks.
FINALLY…
When Joe Mauer threw out Elvis Andrus with a perfect throw in the eighth inning, I swear I heard Mauer yell. “Silly rabbit! Trix are for kids!”
O.K. I made that up…..
87 Responses to "Twins-Rangers: Postgame"
why not that guy, o whats his name… VALENCIA!!!
Firsy off, great info Lavelle!!!!, secondly Valencia will get his chance next week when rosters expand. Morales is another GOOD bat on the bench. NO to Penny!!! Rauch should help, not sure about Mahay and what will the 40 man move be???
I thought they would call up Buscher if Crede went to the DL so I’m pleasantly suprised….
What would we have to give up to land Harden?
I would be upset if they gave up Ben Revre, Angel Morales, Aaron Hicks or Wilson Ramos.
“Silly rabbit!….”
Get some sleep, LaVelle.
You are in no condition to begin your stand-up comedy career.
La Velle,
please read this (twice) and let me know that you didn’t chuckle:
Twins manager Ron Gardenhire added that Crede was going to have a second epidural. The first one was from the top and this one will be from the bottom.
…
Buscher and Tolbert are injured…. both are minor but Gardy wanted someone healthy and could help the team
Geez, it only took a week of playing shorthanded to DL Crede.
And who didn’t see that coming?
If Rauch produces this season, it would definatly take pressure off of Neshek to return before he is ready.
Proactive thinking, from MY front office? It’s more likely than you think.
think,
i don’t think the Twins would give up any of those players, Ramos if they also signed Mauer to an extension
Think1
I would give up anyone other than Valencia or Hicks for Harden, we have lots of depth in the outfield so I would have no problem if the Twins gave up Revere or Angel Morales
Im still a little suspicious tho that the Twins actually were the ones that claimed Harden… wouldnt all of the NL teams have to pass on him first for that to happen?
I would give up anyone other than Valencia or Hicks for Harden, we have lots of depth in the outfield so I would have no problem if the Twins gave up Revere or Angel Morales
How about BJ Hermsen and Rene Tosoni? (because this is what it looks like now - and much less than Revere and A. Morales IMHO)
what do you mean by “this is what it looks like now”, is that what you think the Cubs are asking for? If so I would be willing to give up Tosini for sure, but I would be really hesitant to give up on Hermensen due to the fact that he looks capable of being of front end starter in an organization full of back end strike throwers.
What do you think?
Id hate to give up Hermsen. That said, Harden comes with 2 first round draft picks if he’s offered arbitration and declines. Have to think you could use those picks to replace him.
I still just don’t think the Cubs will let him go for anything but a ransom. I hope I’m wrong.
Tyler,
What do you think?
let me start from what I know:
-Hermsen was pulled off a GCL game after an IP with no injuries (and no reason) at about 7PMish ET tonight.
-The Cubs would get 2 1st round picks for Harden if they keep him
-Tosoni is more than blocked in the Twins’ organization as far as outfielders go
-Hermsen and Tosoni are surer bets than 2 first round picks
What I think:
- there are better pitching prospects in the Twins’ organization than Hermsen right now
- the Twins are trying to work on an extension with Harded (I semi-know that)
- Tosoni is viewed as expendable (I semi-know that too) by the Twins…
here is my take on this deadline (and what I am doing about it) http://bit.ly/NDffp and feel free to follow
Wow thanks for all the info thrylos… I would definitely go for it if they signed him to an extension. I completely agree with you that Tosoni is blocked due to depth in the OF, but BJ would be tough to deal, but you have to give something to get something I guess… who do you think is a more capable front line starter in the organization than Hermsen tho? Guerra? Robertson? I dont think anyone is, and I think we would be giving up our best pitching prospect for Harden, which I would be fine with if they signed him to at least a one or two year extension
who do you think is a more capable front line starter in the organization than Hermsen tho?
let me count the ways:
Pedro Guerra
Deolis Guerra
Tyler Robertson
Carlos Gutierrez
Dave Bromberg
Steve Hirschfield
Brad Tippet
Ceasar Cuircina
Tom Stuifbergen
Adrian Salcedo
and on and on… (about 10 more)
What I like about this move is that the Twins are (finally) re-adopting a win-now mentality that was apparently lost when Andy McPhail was gone. Chili and Morris…
and to add to this… because some probably did not hear it before:
At some point (1988-1992) the Twins had the highest payroll and the highest attendance in the majors. And it’s not about cash. It’s about figuring out what you need to win and making that happen. (and getting rid of that bad karma and them bearers of it in the way). The Twins won 2 world championships with a 30-something GM and a 30-something manager. Now the latter is quasi-deified (and runs horses and takes ground balls in ST for a living) and the former is an Oriole.
Lessons learned or lessons forgotten?
How can anyone possibly dispute the fact that our Joe Mauer is the best player in MLB? He is darn it.
Nobody has criticized Bill Smith more than me but picking up Jon Rauch and Ron Mahay were good moves. I doubt the team will acquire Rich Harden but Brad Penny would be nice.
Jack,
you’d be surprised… it sounds like Harden is already in the bag (they are working on an extension) and I’ve heard of at least one more (that might be valid) move that might happen before Tuesday… It looks good and looks ok in the standings: The Twins have to mind their own business: They beat their opponents, they have this thing wrapped and they have 3 decent SP in the post-season…
Believe… 
i dare say the season ain’t over yet.
Thrylos,
Could you clarify? Are you saying it looks like the Twins have acquired Harden and are working on an extension?
And what other moves are there that might coming by Tuesday?
If the Twins were able to trade for Harden, giving up Hermsen and Tosoni would not be too much. I wonder if Parmelee would be a match? He is finally showing a little more promise this year and is also blocked in the OF and also at 1B.
The only way I would include Wilson Ramos is if Harden was signed to an extension at the time of the trade and you were really sure you can re-sign Mauer. (back up the Brinks truck)
I can clarify (up to a point):
-from what I hear the Twins and the Cubs have agreed on a compensation for a Harden trade in principle (i.e. I give this you get that)
-the Twins are holding it up because they want to sign Harden to an extension
(whether anything will happen is up for grabs and we all will find out come Monday)
-as far as the “other moves” are concerned, I better take the fifth. (WJ is that an appropriate usage?)
2-3 more days… Patience. But I got to say that my admiration for Bill Smith (and the Pohlad Jrs) has gone up umpteen-fold based on what is going on…
Wow, thrylos. I read on the bleacher report that there was a report that the Twins withdrew their claim. But I take your word over theirs, thanks for the info.
Honestly, I don’t see the Twins catching the Tigers this season. So I see these moves as trying to figure out where the Twins are as a team and what further moves need to be made in the off season. Crede? I wouldn’t be surprised if he doesn’t play another game as a Twin. But, if Valencia doesn’t work out next spring I’d take Crede back if he’s healthy and cheap.
thrylos98 says:August 29th, 2009 at 1:16 am
“-as far as the “other moves” are concerned, I better take the fifth.”
I find “Southern Comfort” works well in these situations.
Regards,
Congratulations Brian Duensing! That wasn’t luck he pitched exceptional. Using all his pitches and both sides of the plate like a real pro. Were you watching Perk? How about you Franchise?
Oh yeah I almost forgot Bring on Harden and the Twins will tame the Tigers. T you heard it here first.
I would give up any minor leaguer in our system for Rich Harden.. As far as I am concerned one of the PTBNL can be Perkins
Thanks for all the info, T98.
Anything can happen from here on out. All of these moves also make me feel better about F.O. doing (and being willing to do) what they need to do to extend Mauer’s contract –not just his own salary but trying to put some players around him.
Take the 5th for now Thrylos but if the item on which you are mum does not work out, can you tell us later anyway???
Just keep in mind that if the Twins want momentum into Target Field….which of course they do…then the aim is to both:
a) finish the season with a strong move for the division;
b) lock in some players that generate enthusiasm for next year;
That’s the reason you’re seeing the work on Harden. I would be not at all surprised to see this deal completed, with the required extension. (As we know, the Twins know they need starting help for next season.)
Go Twins.
… I’ve heard of at least one more (that might be valid) move that might happen before Tuesday…
This is very inappropriate behaviour on your part.
i have to give smith credit for at least trying to improve a very bad lot of pitching. it would have been nice a month ago when we had more time to catch up but at least there is some hope now.
harden would be great, when not injured, in the rotation next year along with backer and slowey. filling 2 spots of course will be easier than 3. not much out there for starters in fa.
don’t go back into hibernation bill keep working!
I think he said “Elvis has left the bases”.
In my 9:59 post the end got truncated. After inappropriate I said you should at least give us a hint.
Thrylos, if it is indeed Tosoni and Hermansen for Harden, AND they work out an extension (hopefully at least two years), I will forgive you for all of the “Cuddaver” posts at the end of last season and the beginning of this season.
A while ago I posted how the Twins should go after Harang. If they wind up nabbing Harden, I would be impressed. He’s considerably better than Harang.
Also very much approve of the Rauch pick-up, Mahay, is not bad either, especially getting us another southpaw.
apparentely the Twins did not claim Penny. so its harden or nothing
apparentely the Twins did not claim Penny. so its harden or nothing
As for Duensing’s start, I’m reminded how going into ST 2008, Perkins and Duensing were both considered legitimate candidates for the 5th spot. It’s not surprising that he can put up a great performance, but I wouldn’t want either him or Perkins to be a long-term/key part of the rotation.
Harden, Baker, Slowey, Liriano, Pavano. THAT’s a 2010 rotation I would like to see!
more likely rotation if we can get harden is
Baker
Harden
Slowey
Liriano
Blackburn
to finish my 10:06 comment, he then blew on his pistol finger, put it down by his side and said ” Thank you, thank you very much”.
thrylos/anybody–
Can the Twins actually negotiate an extension with Harden? Can they have discussions with a player on another team?
Thrylos, do you know who were the other 3 players we offered to Pavano? It was said they picked Pino off a list of 4 players.
Now, let’s hope the “other move” involves a player that rhymes with “Hey Hey Party.”
AM,
I believe they can come to an agreement and he would technically sign the extension with the Cubs, then be traded to the Twins.
Does anybody here think the reason they called up Morales instead of the butcher, or tolbert is because the Cubs or somebody wants another big league look at him?
What has Liriano done (post 2006) that puts him ahead of Duensing / Manship / Swazszack / Perkins / Blackburn?
And I realize the obverse to the question is true as well
NO Liriano in the rotation…his 3 months of fame were over 3 years ago.
Regards,
I think Bill Smith started out as GM ready to make moves to address weaknesse. Then his splashy start didn’t work out as he’d hoped (DY, Gomez/Guerra), and he’s gotten gunshy. Now, a year and half later, he’s willing to get back to his natural instincts (prodded by Morneau/Mauer threats for moves).
The DY move didn’t work out as he’d hoped, but he targetted a top young hitter, and he got him. Span’s surprising development helped keep that move from being a disaster.
Now he’s targetting a top pitcher, who’s attainable because of his injury history. If he lands Harden, that will be a great risk to take for the stretch run, even if it costs us some prospects.
AM,
Trading is all about risk. Not every trade works out (obviously). Even many that seem to be a sure thing are complete failures. But the way I see it, nothing ventured, nothing gained.
thrylos can you please share the source from which u have heard that the Twins and Cubs have agreed on compensation for Harden? I would love this move and I beleive this would propel us into the playoffs and with 3 solid starters give us a chance to go far into the playoffs.
Am, my understanding is that the Twins can ask for permission to talk/negotiate with Harden with the permission of the Cubs/MLB.
Well, one guy with a source doesn’t think the Twins are in on Penny:
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/9999728/Source:-Marlins-making-run-at-Penny
If that is to be believed and if T98 is correct and there are other possible pursuits besides Harden what other possiblities might there be?
Drayton MacLane was in the Chronicle today hinting strongly that the Astros will get a big facelift. Maybe they want a head start and would move Oswalt, especially after his comments lately.
Or maybe since the Twins already have chatted with the Dbacks that they’re trying to get rid of some “d”….Haren, anybody?
For T98 to be encouraged with BS and the Pohlads one has to believe that something more than Penny is in the gunsights.
Hopefully, whatever they are doing works and reduces the need to act desperate in the offseason to restore the rotation.
Fingers crossed that they surprise us.
2010 Rotation
Baker
Pavano
Slowy
Harden
Duensing
Liriano and Blackburn to the BP.
2009 is not over. We have 7 games left with the Tiggers and 6 with the W-Sox. Its late, but still possible. Plus we have the easiest schedule out of the 3 and IF we land Harden… I like the Twins Chances of keeping us in our seats until 10.5.09, the last game.
Hypothetically speaking, if the Twins make the move thrylos is saying has been agreed to in principle, and realease, say RA to make room on the 40 man, the headline will be:
“Twins release Dickey once they get Harden.”
I am pretty excited about this new-found desire to take some risks in the FO. Keep winning, Twins! And, Bill, keep-up the…. *cough, cough*…. good work!
Thry:
I went to your site; good stuff! I’ve bookmarked your page!
“The DY move didn’t work out as he’d hoped, but he targetted a top young hitter, and he got him. Span’s surprising development helped keep that move from being a disaster.”
AM, I hear what you’re saying and would agree with your assessment in principle. However, I think DY can still work out; the caveat is that 1.) he needs to play everyday next season; 2.) one of the outfielders (unfortunately, either Kubel or Cuddyer) needs to be moved. No more of this 5-to-4 nonsense.
Todd,I agree with your assessment in principle.Yes,DY still can,and I think will work out provided he is given playing time.However it doesn’t have to,and probably wouldn’t be Kubel or Cuddyer.I would not be surprised if Gomez is not quietly shopped.DY has proven he a can take instruction this summer.I’m not sure the same can be said about GoGo.I could certainly live with a Delmon,Span,Cuddy OF for 2010.
T98,great stuff! I hope this comes to pass.Harden is just the kind of pitcher the Twins should target.
Garland is also an option as he has cleared waivers.
T98 … It would be nice to see a little credibility with some source. I still remember when your sources claimed last year that Manny was officially traded to the Marlins (from the Red Sox) and that wasn’t the case.
Todd Anthony and The Pro from Dover–
I disagree with your assessment in principle and in totality. DY has hit fairly well of late, that is true. However, he still walks 3% of the time and has posted a -17 UZR in LF. Span, on the other hand, walk 12% of the time, is hitting .300+, and has posted a +17 in LF.
Note that Span’s defense in LF is 3.5 games better than DY. How many games are we out of first place again?
Simply put, Span is all we could have hoped for when we traded for DY.
If DY’s recent hot streak has regained any of his trade value, we should trade him. (How about DY for JJHardy?)
On top of this, Gomez has recovered from his poor defensive start to the year to post solid numbers in CF. The Twins should be starting Span, Gomez and Cuddyer each game.
Keep this outfield together for next year, and then let’s see if Revere or Hicks is ready to step in by 2011.
Like Jack Steal, i have also been extremely hard on mr bill smith, both on joe c and lavelles columns over the last year or so…i will gladly take back everything ive said if he continues to produce like i am reading about today, wow….thanks big time to thrylos for all the advance info and speculation…..and also thus far it looks like its getting done without losing any of our core players- i have no problem losing most anyone in the farm system right now (except a few of course)to get this team in shape for a serious run at the tigers and also readying for next year….gotta get thru this season and win this thing but ahead i could see …
Harden
Baker
Slowey
Duensing
Pavano
with a bullpen of …Nathan, Mijares, Guerrier, Rauch, Blackburn, Crain and Liriano….that still leaves Perk, Neshek, Bonser, out in the cold or ???
and according to thrylos there maybe someone else unknown, but what i made of it a big name pitcher on the way- lets hope and this could get very interesting in the next few days, but all moves must be made soon to be eligible for post season play i believe…maybe someone knows the ins and outs on that for certain…..
Correction, those are UZR/150 numbers. Span has posted about 2 wins better defensive numbers than DY in LF.
AM The Brewers are pretty deep with their corner outfielders and would want pitching. I have proposed Liriano for Hardy in previous posts as both players need a change in scenery and changing leagues would help both.
is it my imagination or are there more guys getting on base with infield hits to the ss area- seems as OC arm is either a bit slow,weak or both?? he has made some nice plays and i like his bat, but i am a bit concerned with his coverage in the hole….the other thing is if ss is alexis best natural position, we have except for maybe one game or so, never seen him play at short-
espn just reported the yankees wanting to sign b.penny…whats with that i wonder- are we out of that deal?
Liriano will be in the rotation next year… its fairly obvious that he had physical and mental problems. If he can condition his arm, he will be a goo starter, not as good as before, but good enough
Also, Pavano will prob. not be back
Harden
Baker
Slowey
Liriano
Perkins?
I liked Perkins at the beginning of the year.. I think its mental with him too.
How may mental headcases do we have as starting pitchers?? Sometimes it looks like they are about to cry out there on the mound.
mj1–
Take a look at OC’s UZR numbers on fangraphs–he’s posting negative numbers, which means he’s making fewer plays that the average SS.
(Not that I’m currently advocating for him, but Punto’s UZR numbers are above average.)
JJ Hardy would be a big improvement on both. Not sure I’d be willing to give up Liriano to get him, but certainly I’d be willing to give up some good prospects. (I think Liriano deserves another year back from TJ surgery.)
And I know, that there are those who would say “DY is young, we can’t give up on him yet.”
I say we know most of what DY is. Maybe he will develop more power. But that’s an “if” and at this point almost all of the rest of his game is below average, at best.
Tons of speculation on here, with little to zero reason on why we should believe it. However, it is still very nice to read the positive speculation here than the “we’re done” comments that were posted as early as last week.
Even if the Twins do not get Harden, or do not catch the Tigers, at least a few of these late season moves will set them up better for next season so as to not have as many holes to fill. It would be nice to have the pitching staff almost set for next year so we can focus on the holes in the infield.
I also like the fact that Bill Smith is once again taking some “risky” moves. The Yankees make a ton of moves that don’t work out. And a ton that do. I realize with the economics of Twins baseball they can’t take as many risks, but if every move you make works out, that means you aren’t making enough moves. In other words, you are being entirely too cautious if you are only making moves that are a “guarantee”.
funny how a strong start faltered on dickey.
Sound familiar
Ramon Ortiz, Sidney Ponson
matt,
I agree-Brewers need pitching. I listen to a lot of sports radio out of Milwaukee and that comes up all the time.
I would send Liri to them for JJ.
joe c has a new posting………
I thought Andres was safe at 2nd. The tag was on the knee or thigh. It was pretty close so super slow mo might show he was out - but I wouldn’t have been surprised if he was called safe.
It would be nice if Dickey stays in the Twins system. I think in a couple years that he could develop his knuckleball more and end up having a career similar to Wakefield. Wakefield has had a couple years where his ERA has been well over 5.00. While Dickey has been bad for a decent amount of the season, he only has thrown the knuckleball for a couple years now. His biggest problem this year was walking people and then he would have to throw his straight 85 mph fastball and would get shelled.
has anyone thought us claiming harden on waivers was just so that detroit or chicago would beable to…
I don’t understand how all these teams can be in on Penny or say they want him. The Twins claimed him on waivers. The only way another team can even have a shot is if Penny declines. If he does, he would lose all the guaranteed money he still has coming. I can’t imagine that he would want to be a free agent this late in the season.
If 98’s speculation is true, then it looks like the Twins might be landing two starters on Monday.
lavelle what takes so long to post the lineup Joe is always way ahead of you on that. It is a half an hour before game time you can’t tell me that you couldnt of found time to post it yet
im with you travis.. sometimes this gets pretty silly…gameday…and almost gametime, no story—weak
“you can’t tell me that you couldnt of found time to post it yet”
Maybe LaVelle was studying English, so he wouldn’t write “couldnt of”, and get publicly criticized.
I know, I came to rip Redmond and Punto being in the lineup….
