From the huddle with Gardy
Posted on October 8th, 2009 – 11:37 AMBy La Velle
Thanks to Mike Herman of the Twins baseball communications department, we were able to grab Twins manager Ron Gardenhire following his main press conference to get more details on Jesse Crain’s sore groin muscle.
But it led to some interesting stuff from the Twins manager about Game 1 and the state of his team.
Gardenhire could have said nothing about Crain just to keep the Yankees guessing, but didn’t.
“I’m not hiding anything from them,” Gardenhire said. “I think I should let you guys know. That’s important. If he can’t pitch tomorrow night, you guys are going be going, `What happened to Crain? Well, he’s hurt.’ I don’t like that stuff. If you have something, just tell them.”
Crain was one of several players to get treatment on Thursday. Gardy was optimistic Crain would be available Friday.
“I didn’t throw,” Crain said. “I just did some cardio and some stretching and got in the hot tub. It felt better after all that stuff.”
I asked Gardy if that affected his bullpen decisions. Nope. Francisco Liriano was 0-1 with a 3.18 ERA in two starts against the Yankees this season and has a career 2.77 ERA against him. My take on this is that Liriano has had such a poor season and was on the bubble to make an 11-man postseason staff before the Twins decided to go with 12 pitchers (although Liriano probably would have gotten the nod over Bobby Keppel because he’s a lefty).
“Keppel, really didn’t want to go to him,” Gardenhire said. “He had thrown too many (on Tuesday). So you’re looking long (relief) more than anything else. We thought about trying to go inning-by-inning but those guys have thrown.”
Brian Duensing’s pitch to Alex Rodriguez was the moment that jumped out at him the most. He said pitching coach Rick Anderson told Duensing to be careful with the All-Star because the chances were good that he would chase something off the plate. But Duensing grooved a pitch.
“We gave up A-Rod’s first (postseason) RBI in five years,” he said. “Chrysler.”
Joe Mauer also came in for treatment.
“Joe, he’s a little sore,” Gardenhire said. “Play all night and fly all night. You couldn’t tell by his swing but he’s a little more sore, so he came in and got some treatment. And I think this is going to be a beautiful day off for him, Get some treatment and relax.
“He’s the one guy you really worry about. He’s taken a beating. You play a marathon game then fly until 4:30 in the morning.”
And as Joe C. mentioned in his blog, I did get stuck in the elevator with six other scribes for 20 minutes today. And, yes, I texted Joe a question to ask Gardenhire. While other people in the nervous in the elevator, I was cool. We were on the ground floor and just had to wait for someone to pry the door open. I might have felt differently if we had been a few floors up.
But the issue I have is with the Yankees and their $1.5 billion tribute to themselves? The elevator breaks down in the first year? Really?
154 Responses to "From the huddle with Gardy"
Lavelle, did anyone ask Gardy why Casilla (9-for-13 career against Sabathia) and Redmond (13-for-26) weren’t in the lineup last night? I thought Punto could have slid over to 3rd, Casilla play 2nd and Redmond should have DH’d. Tolbert had never faced CC and Harris was 3-for-15 in his career against the big lefty. It’s hard to argue with the success Alexi and Mike have had off Sabathia.
$1.5 billion tribute to themselves…love it.
It’s also hard to argue with the configuration that got the team to where they are now. I’m pretty sure Gardy just didn’t want to mess with what got them here.
I just can’t see after Kubes gave up at least one more ball that should be caught How any of our DH options are really bringing enough offense to the table to offset the defensive upgrade of Carlos.
I would have been totally shocked if we had won that game last night. I wish they just would have walked A-Roid and let Duensing go after Matsui. Matsui didn’t do anything in his first two
at-bats against him. Very much needed day off. We need a Burnett meltdown and a good sinker from Blackburn tomorrow night to even this thing up. Then pray for some Dome magic. It is so disappointing to see Liriano at this point of his career. The Twins haven’t had much luck with pitchers rebounding from Tommy John. Joe Mays and now Frankie. Let’s hope Neshek ends that streak.
Records of teams going up 1-0:
ALDS 14-14
NLDS 25-3
That’s weird. I really think the Twins will be better served with achieving the split with the second game.
Besides not calling for an intentional walk to A-Roid, I thought Gardy should have had Punto running during Span’s second at-bat when Denard hit into the DP.
I think Mauer was sore from pulling something when he slipped/fell rounding first the other night more than anything else.
Did anyone ask Gardy about his decisions not to bunt throughout the early part of game against Sabathia in perfect situations to do so? I thought we were all about doing the little things, the “Twins Way” and such. Looked like great opportunities to maybe at least slow down Sabathia and a chance to force A-Rod to make plays at third.
There were plenty of other reasons the Twins couldn’t get it done last night, but the bunting deal sticks in my mind a little bit.
If you’re too lazy to use the stairs, that’s what you get.
Especially since Gardy boasted on the pre-game show that he was going to make CC mad and to do that we had to bunt successfully. I agree with the poster who said it is time to put Kubes back as the DH he is a hinderance in the OF and put Go-Go back and live with his at bats. Maybe he’ll drive Burnett crazy.
Buff… That Span AB really was a tipping point. If his oppo smash gets by A-Rod, and the rest of the inning unfolds the same way - we’re celebrating a win here, most likely. Span had to have hit it hard for them to have time to turn that DP.
Can we please trade Liriano and Perkind during the off-season for a right handed power hitter, either at 3b or as a DH? Please? Liriano and Perkins are done.
Casilla and Redmond may have nice numbers lifetime against Sabathia, but I wouldn’t have used that as the reason to put them in the line-up. Neither has done well at the plate this season, so good numbers from the previous years skew the lifetime numbers.
It’s a gamble one way or the other: go with the warmer hitters, or the guys with the lifetime averages. In the end, I don’t think that decision factored into the outcome.
Rest ‘em up and get after it on Friday. Can’t win in NY if your too tired to battle your tail off.
I agree on getting rid of Perkins, but Frankie is still just a year from surgery. I think we need to at least see what he brings next Spring. If not then, then never. Need to sign Pavano or another vet pitcher and O-cab. Then dump Perkins and something to get a 3B. Let Punto/Casilla platoon at 2b then keep Tolbert and let Harris go.
Bob……. If Liriano and Perkins are done, then the power hitter your going to get is probably done also.
If the Twins had the history and tradition of the Yankee organization, and if the fans supported the Twins in ALL ways like Yankee fans do, then Target Stadium could have been a palace too. But when you don’t support, I guess you just have to shop at “Target” instead. Don’t hate the Yankees because they their fans support the organization and the organization actually reinvests in the fans by getting the best players and facilities.
A-Roid should have been walked.
The Mattman, I wouldn’t exactly say Tolbert and Harris have been knocking the cover off the ball either. Redmond has playoff experience and Casilla has come through in big games in the past. I’m not saying it would have been the difference, but those guys have enough at-bats against CC that I think their success off him is more of a trend than a mirage.
Have people changed their opinion on Cabrera cuz of 2 good weeks, or do all of the errors and lack of offense for 90% of his season mean more?
I blame Gardy for this game. I didn’t like how he pulled out Duensing, should have left him to pitch, if you didn’t want him to go after ARod should have just intentionally walked him.
Secondly, I agree with some of the previous posters. He should have played GO GO and Alexi!1. To try to get in CC’s head. 2. Why not they are coming of a high and wouldn’t have been as worn out. He should have played the loose canons! In my opionion it would have been much better to have them in the game against CC rather than Kubel and Harris.
At least the elevators will work at Target Field.
Mr.”It’s on me” drives me nuts too Seth.
all the errors? No offense 90% of the season? What does a guy have to do to please people on this list? Be perfect in the field and hit .750?
OCab has been a godsend. Don’t rag on him Seth.
Gman is right Bob. You don’t trade away crap and expect to get a power hitting 3B. Unless Perkins and Liriano come back next year and show they can stay healthy and pitch effectively, you’re not going to get anything substantial for them.
“Unless Perkins and Liriano come back next year and show they can stay healthy and pitch effectively, you’re not going to get anything substantial for them.”
there is the rub, if Perkins and Liriano stay healthy and pitch well you wouldn’t want to trade them then anyways..
Seth, I assume that was rhetorical, right? Of course people have forgotten just how bad OCab has been ALL YEAR.
Did Duensing really groove that pitch? I didn’t get to see it, but from two other sites I’ve visited, they said it was a good pitch that ARod happened to hit.
I am a Minnesotan living in NY who hates the Yanks and loves the Twins. So first of all I got to a few tussles with Yankee fans. Nothing major just protecting our Twins!
I agree with Gardie letting Span hit away because he knows it will take the Twins more than 3 or 4 runs to beat the Yanks.
I also thought that Mauer should have been moved to DH, Redmond at Catcher, Go Go in right, Casilla at second and Punto at 3rd.
In my opinion we weren’t winning yesterday’s game anyway so mgiht as well rest Mauer and hope that Casilla and Redmond continue their solid numbers against the Yanks.
The only thing that might save us in this series is that the Yankee players seem to view this series as a mere formality. I don’t care what their comments are in the media their body language shows them to be very apathetic. Aside from Jeter and Sabathia (true pros) everyone else seemed to take the game lightly.
Take the Twins lightly and you will lose!
Fair question, Seth. But the question has two parts. While you can’t afford to fall in love with Cabrera based solely on his stretch drive performance, at least that’s a couple of productive weeks more than we’ve become accustomed to getting from Twins’ shortstops. Therefore, the second part of the question is, “If not Cabrera in 2010, then who?”
Can’t speak for anyone else, but I’m not bowled over by the FA market for the position this year and I’m not sure there’s someone significantly better ready to step up within the organization. Would you prefer to go back to Punto at SS instead?
O Cabrera clearly makes some errors, which is a little problem, but what he allowed the Twins to do is to have Punto play 2nd base, and keep Cassila on the bench. It goes without saying that the Twins have to address the infield over the off season. Tolbert would be Ok for a utility player, but 3b must be addressed. Try to trade Cassilla, if possible, and platoon Tolbert/Punto at 2nd.
Depending on if Slowey is able to pitch effectively I believe they have 4 quality starters in Baker,Blackburn, Slowey, Duensing and then one of Pavano, Perkins and Lirano for the 5th spot.
Bullpen is a mess and will need a substantial upgrade. Possibly Perkins to the bullpen. But the 7th/8th inning relief corp needs improvement if the Twins are to reach the 95-100 win season.
Seth,
It’s hard to argue with Cabrera’s stats since coming to the Twins: .289/.313/.430. From what I’ve seen from him during his career, he’s a streaky hitter, but he’s also a gamer and it’s nice to have his experience and enthusiasm in the line-up. You are right, he’s no gold-glover at this point in his career, but I think the positives outweigh the negatives.
Was anyone else bugged by the smugness of A. Rod and D. Jet? What a couple of tools. Now that the awe is over about being back in Yankee Stadium, let’s get a split!
LNP isn’t a gold glover either but O-Cab out hits him by a Country mile!
I truly believe, after being at yesterday’s game, that the Twins will steal Friday’s game and close the Yanks out at the dome.
Since yesterday’s game went exactly the way the Yanks thought it would go they will get a little too comfortable and forget that the Twins lost a few one run games to them at Yankee stadium, and that the twins have been playing playoff type baseball for the last three weeks.
We all know the kind of tear the Twins have been on coming into the playoffs, one loss does not halt that momentum.
Get em on Friday boys!
mickster: Just a FYI: Liriano had his surgery three years ago..2006.
It seems to me that 2B, SS and 3B are all up for discussion this off-season. And what you do with one will definitely affect what you do with the others.
Despite Gardy’s love for Punto, I’m not sure that Gardy really wants him to be his full-time starting 2B man. I think he’d love the luxury of having LNP as a true utility player — able to bring him in where he needs him.
I’m not sold on O. Cabrera at SS. I’m not unalterably opposed to him either. But it depends on how much money he wants and what you do with 2B and 3B.
That Yankee lineup is dangerous…this Twins pitching staff is a diaster waiting to happen..these are professional hitters that communciate constantly between AB’s and if you do not adjust..your out by the 5th/6th inning wiht 5 runs hung on you…yanks are set up with Pettite in game 3 as he is almost impossible to rattle as he blocks everything out…Burnett is the only chance..maybe the NY pressure gets to him..if not…not good…
The fact that Perkins passed an invitation to be at the Dome’s final home game last Sunday means he knows he won’t be back. I wonder what was going through his head when he saw that game Tuesday and then the clubhouse celebration? And he’s a local kid to boot..and a dumb one at that.
I think JJ Hardy could be the answer at SS.
On the bunting issue, Tolbert faked a bunt in the 7th inning and got drilled in the hand by Sabathia later in that at-bat. The Twins never did retaliate, and I thought they should have.
Bufftwins..why would Sabathia want to put on a 9th place hitter in Tolbert?
Do you actually think that was on purpose?
Perkins is too busy running around with his matches and gasoline can, burning every bridge he comes to.
Bufftwins…I’m glad you brought up Liriano’s surgery date bufftwins. The time to give Liriano a free pass is OVER!!! I’m not saying give up on him. But, he did struggle last year…until late in the season after his call up…then he was back to being solid, not as dominant, but very solid. How has he gone from that to being one of the worst starters in the A-L? He should have progressed this season if we was going to regain his form…not regressed. I don’t know if something mental is going on…or a masking of something physical…but he is nothing more than a batting practice pitcher. He has little on his pitches that are straight and too hittable. He is the WORST pitcher on the team now. If they can’t get him straightened out for the pre-season in 2010…he should be cut loose. It’s sad…but his future looks dimmer with each failed performance.
JimC also makes a great point. What are their options at SS?
I had more, but it was beating a dead horse.
Since we are talking about next year, biggest needs:
Starting Pitcher (x2?)
3B
SS
2B
Decision on Gomez/Young?
You think that ANYONE is going to want Perkins or Liriano after this season? I can see, maybe, Frankie. He still has potential and may improve on a different team. His attitude doesn’t seem right at this point.
But, Glen Perkins, after this stuff where he’s sulking in Florida, is done.
Isn’t Liriano 2+ years removed from surgery at this point?
Does anyone feel soon-to-be free agent Dan Uggla would be worth the considerable investment?
Rumor has it he could play 3rd as well as 2nd.
It’s been three years for Liriano, post Tommy John surgery. He should be progressing now…not getting worse!!! Not a good sign that he has a good future in baseball.
On a side note..I was at the game Tuesday. Why the hell was Hubert’s closed after the game? I wanted to go for a few victory beers and it was closed shut! Memo to Hubert’s: Take advantage of Twins games while they are still playing across the street! The only thing I can think of is that they closed up to host a Twins office party or something. I could see that a few of Hubert’s staff were in there sitting in the dark. I was just baffled they were closed.
I think O-Cab and Punto are good to keep around next year in the hopes that between the two of them, they can help teach Casilla and any other youngsters how to stay in the game mentally, and learn some of those nifty defensive plays the two both occasionally pull off. Essentially, let’s let them train their replacements.
Teo. I think The Brewers with their frustrated shortstop might be an excellent trade partner for the Twins
Dear Delmon: In the field, please stand ten feet closer to home plate, so every ball hit in front of you doesn’t bounce. Please throw all the way to the cutoff man. You do have a major league arm, right? And please, PLEASE pretend you are batting against the Royals, not the Yankees. Don’t automatically swing at every first pitch; it just makes you look silly flailing at lame curve balls two feet outside. I’ll leave it at that. Go Twins.
Why don’t we trade someone for Chamberlain? He grew up 5 hours away in Winnebago Nebraska.
I was disappointed that Valencia and Tolleson were not brought up for the September 1st call up. I understand Smith’s reasoning, I guess, that to bring them up is like burning a guy’s red shirt year for the last couple of games of the season and he only has 3 years instead of 4 to play, but with the questions we have at 2b and 3b it would have been nice to give them some playing time. Now they will have to totally prove themselves in the Spring and hope they get brought North, something which may be doubtful since they will probably get jacked around the way Span was a couple of years ago.
Early Bunting Situations Last Night:
1st Inning: Span on 2B, no outs, O-Cab up
3rd Inning: Punto on 1B, no outs, Span up
O-Cab K’s and Span hits into a double play
Would have like to seen the results of laying down a bunt in these situations early. May not have changed anything, but it would have been nice to see them running around the bases and forcing the Yankees to make plays. Outside of Teixera and Cano (and maybe Melky), that club is getting older and appears to be a little less athletic in the field.
You have to try and take advantage of anything you can against teams like this and I think the Twins should have at least tried.
Rant done. Get ‘em tomorrow.
Liriano and Perkins: At this point it looks like both of them may wind up as middle relievers, simply because they break down too much as starters. I don’t mean this as a criticism of either man; physically, most guys cannot take the strain of throwing a baseball 90+ mph for very long, not to mention the extra strain of throwing big curves and fast sliders. Major league pitchers are constantly flirting with injury as they throw the ball over and over as hard as they can. Even the ones with “perfect” mechanics can hurt themselves, and nobody has accused either Perkins or Liriano of having perfect mechanics.
I thought the pitch Duensing through to ARod was a good pitch. It was certainly low in the zone, if not low. He certainly did not “groove one”. I don’t like the idea of pitching scared. If he wanted to get around ARod, he should have just walked him.
Isn’t Gardy talking out of both sides of his mouth? Is ARod a clutch hitter in the playoffs or isn’t he? If he thinks he isn’t then they should go after him with pitcher’s pitches (which is what Duensing did) and he shouldn’t complain about him getting off the bad streak. If he thought he was clutch, then he should have walked him. Don’t put your pitcher in that spot.
The last thing I want from a leader is someone to chew me out in front of everyone. What a downer. That was a joke move.
Cuddyer’s play at first is a pleasant surprise. He clearly has infield skills, and what a plus if he could move over to third. Then you could put in a great glove at SS, keep Cuddyer’s bat in the lineup and solve the glut of outfielders at the same time. (You can dream.)
OK, this is about the dumbest thing I have ever seen:
jimbo92107: Yeah, last night Delmon struck out on 3 pitches and only one of them was a strike! Big difference between CC Sabathia and Lenny Dinardo.
That, and Perkins might be the odd man out anyway. Baker, Blackburn, Slowey are 1-2-3, Pavano likely back 4, Duensing has done fairly well 5.
So unless Pavano doesn’t come back and the Twins don’t pursue a vet arm, Perkins would have to beat out Duensing (& Liriano,Manship, Swarzak, etc)for a starting spot.
Seth Spoke
O Cab .285 9 hrs and 75 rbi’s in the 2 hole not bad… Very comparable to Palcido Polanco… Hard to post those numbers in the last two weeks my friend..
C’mon guys. How can you second-guess anything in a situation like that. They were exhausted and had to ignore whatever ailments they had. The Yankees, with the opportunity to set up such a situation (whether Twins or Tigers) and use a 3-man pitching rotation in the ALCS, took advantage. My question: how could MLB just allow a team to have the authority to make such a decision? Should not the MLB executives weigh all of the implications and decide how to handle it (or already have a policy for this type of situation set in place - duuuh)? Hopefully these players are young enough, and their ailments minor enough, to shake it all off and come out aggressive and pissed off on Friday. We are at enough of a disadvantage as it is.
Perkins is a head case… He thinks he is Frank Viola when he is more like Carlos Pulido……..
MWW, you asked, “Did Duensing really groove that pitch?”
Not at all… it appeared to be at the knees and on the insider corner… if not a little off the plate.
My question on Orlando Cabrera was really a discussion topic, not a statement sentence. I think it’s a very fair question and an interesting topic.
Bob - Bringing up Valencia and Tolleson wouldn’t have cost anything in terms of years of development. First, neither would have been sent down after their call-up, so you don’t waste an option year. Second, Tolleson is already on the 40 man roster, so his option for 2009 was already used. Third, Valencia would have needed to be added to the 40 man roster, but there are several currently on it that will be taken off this offseason anyway.
Does anyone here feel soon-to-be free agent Dan Uggla would be worth the considerable investment for 2010?
Rumor has it he could play 3rd as well as 2nd.
WildMN- don’t forget Rob Delaney and Slama will probably be on the team next year, starting in the pen (Slama is the closer of the future) and there is no room for Liriano and Perkins. Both are sulkers and we will already have Boof busy sulking in the pen next year because he is not starting. If Liriano and/or Perkins starts next year, Gardy needs to be fired.
I have heard that the Twins don’t plan on bringing Pavano back next year. Anyone heard anything to the contrary?
Duensing did a great job against some of the best in baseball. While I don;t pull for the Yanks, their high price warriors have gotten along with each other and are playing more as a team than the Yanks of the last 10 years. I too was surprised that Span didn’t bunt last night and even the night before when the situation should have called for it. He certainly could have beaten one out for a hit one of the times and at least the runner on first would’ve been on second base.
Houston, don’t forget that to true stat heads every at bat happens in a vacuum, and thus, RBI is a meaningless statistic.
I cracks me up that Gardy is PO’d at Duensing for giving up the hit to A-Rod, but doesn’t say anything about the 2-run HR given up by Lariano. They were both told how to pitch the batter and both screwed up… not fair to Duensing.
Cronn, it might also go to show what Gardy has come to expect of each of them.
why does gardy keep bringing in Mijares, ever since he beaned what’s his name and got scolded by everyone on the team, he hasn’t been worth a s*** I think he’s ticked off and is trying to lose. Watch him-he’s the least excited man on the bench when something good happens. what do others think?
Thanks Seth.
So Gardy decides not to intentionally walk ARod, his pitcher makes a good pitch that ARod happens to hit, and it’s the pitcher’s fault?
Must remind self that Gardy is best enjoyed from afar….
Dood, here is the problem with RBI as a judge of effectiveness:
span singles, steals 2nd and is sacrificed to third by Cabrera. Mauer hits a routine fly to the OF with weak armed OFer catching it, and the player makes it by a step (because it was hit so shallowly).
Did Mauer really create any offense there? Did he really do anything that he should be rewarded for in terms of adulation?
Span did nearly all the work in creating the run.
That routine fly ball Mauer hit is useless if Span didn’t get on base. So, the fly ball out is only valuable in the context of someone else on the team doing something more valuable. Yet, mauer gets the glory stat for hitting a routine fly ball.
that’s why counting stats and RBI in particular are over rated in their ability to judge the impact of a player on the outcome of a game (though in context with other stats, they may have some meaning).
If you think it is “just losers in their basement” like Reusse does, I suggest finding the comments from the Boston GM about why JD Drew is valuable to their team, even w/o RBI numbers that pop out at you.
mike,
Perhaps Gardy’s desires were lost in the tranlation through Andy. The kid didn’t want to walk Arod. Cool. But don’t let him beat you. To me that means well outa the zone. Like at his back foot or in his eyes.
MWW,
This is not entirely accurate. If Mauer, or any other good hitter, comes to the plate with a runner on third and less than two outs, they know a fly ball will score a runner, so they approach that at-bat differently than they wood, with say, a runner on second. He would be trying to hit a fly ball to the outfield, so yes, he was creating offense.
ES16, if Mauer is changnig his approach in the first inning to hit a routine out, we have big problems in approach.
MWW,
I’m not saying he’s trying to hit a fly ball to the outfield, but he’s probably trying to drive it to the outfield, knowing that if the ball is caught, it will still score a run. If there’s a runner on second, he may be trying to hit it the other way to advance the runner to third. That’s a different approach, but it’s all about creating offense. It’s not just a random flyball, as you seem to suggest.
Why have they not released the times for the games here???
I think it is pretty random, but I’ll wait for sane and come and educate me.
MWW,
If you think good hitters just go up to the plate swinging away with no plan for the at-bat, you don’t know much about baseball.
I thought Twins fans were better than Red Sox fans but you guys are worse. “A tribute to themselves”? And why should a team spend a fortune building a stadium and make it a tribute to any other team? It’s YANKEE Stadium after all; not Baseball Stadium nor American League Stadium. I have been there a few times this year and the elevator has worked flawlessly each time. FYI — elevators everywhere break down the second the mechanic leaves. It’s just the way things are made: to be fixed!! And stop with the Aroid garbage. You guys are sooooooo behind in everything. When the ENTIRE list is revealed the you can poke fun at him but guess what? It’s OLD news. Over! Get over it; get a life. You guys are watching an old mercenary quarterback your team. He is the same guy you vilified when he was on the Packers. If A-Rod was on the Twins you would be cheering him on. The Twins are a decent team that would have finished third in the East and out of the playoffs. Nothing more than that. I’ll watch superior teams play here in every sport while you guys can ride every working elevator in Minny-St. Paul.
RBI is not a terribly useful statistic primarily because not everyone has the same amount of opportunities to drive in runs. The more relevant question (at least in my mind) is how many guys does a hitter drive in vs. the number of runners left in scoring position?
I hate looking ahead when the Twins are still in this thing, but a Hardy for Liriano trade may be a possibility. The Brewers desperately need pitching and the Twins need infielders. Both guys have a track record, but both had horrible years in ‘09. Who knows?
I’ve read that article where Epstien defends his overpaid Drew contract by making himself sound like an idiot. Epstien is obviously not an idiot, so I am forced to conclude he was giving a quick answer to a question he didn’t want to address again (”Why did you sign that bum Drew?”).
Obviously RBI is not a good place to stop when measuring the overall skill of a baseball player.
There is very little about fanalysis that can actually tell you if a player is good or not. Every single statistical measurement in baseball is impacted by myriad factors, so a scientific approach to comparison is completely invalid.
The numbers can tell you what someone has done but never can tell you what they will do. Baseball is a religious experience and all sabermatricians are doing is giving weight to their faith with numbers and calculations. Its a game where anything can happen and often does. That’s why it’s fun.
It’s a game where a dude can be called “the worst offensive player in the American league” (Ken Rosenthal on Orlando Cabrera) and yet that guy can nearly win the pennant for a team with a home run.
Huberts had a power failure or some problem where had to evacuate for 4 hours at that most inopportune time.
I’ll take 70 some RBI from a #2 hitter every year. Span also has great rbi numbers for a leadoff hitter. RBI stats can be a great stat.
The Brewers desperately need pitching and the Twins need infielders. Both guys have a track record, but both had horrible years in ‘09. Who knows?
the twins desperately need an ‘ace’, as evidenced by last night… (and the entire season). liriano has that kind of potential, albeit hard to see for fans right now. the twins need pitching more than infielders. no question.
Bufftwin,
I think Tolbert leaned into the pitch. Also, Punto was running when Span hit into the DP; it appeared to be a hit-and-run.
Trade for Zimmerman at 3B and learn to live with a Punto/Tolbert platoon, who’s hot plays.
Punto would’ve made a diving stop on one hard shot that Cabrera fielded but didn’t throw out the runner.
Also, agree that Punto at third, Go-Go in CF, Casilla at 2B, Mauer at DH, Redmond at C, and Kubel on the bench to pinch hit would’ve been a better lineup for the start of the game.
I haven’t read the whole blog, but has anybody asked Gardy why he allowed a 3 hour party after the tie-breaker game on Tuesday night? I just think he might have given them a 1/2 hour to have their fun and the hustled them onto the bus and the plane. The could have been in NY by midnight instead of 4am. Just seems to me that the revelry lasted too long and was not necessary under the circumstances.
I just wonder what Liriano would do if we traded him to St. Louis. Dave Duncan turned Kyle Lohse, Ryan Franklin and Joel Pineiro into good pitchers! Unfortunately, I don’t think Liriano’s future is here.
I would like to keep O-Cab, but the guy has been on 757493 teams for a reason.
I am more worried about Gomez. Kid has tons of talent. Can we lock him into a batting cage with Tony O this offseason?
KP-
it helps that st louis is in the national league.
Gardenhire
I think the Twins got to the playoffs not because of Gardenhire but inspite of him.
LaVelle,
Sounds like you got the “shaft” this morning. ;*)
Sorry if that’s already been used.
LaVelle,
Just curious, but how do the Yankees get away with these SEVEN-minute 7th-inning stretches every year in the post-season since 9/11? I can remember Radke saying how he stiffened up out on the mound waiting for all the songs/tributes to be played. No other team does it to this extent, why do they allow it there?
Mark,
Also, would someone tell the Yanks that you aren’t supposed to take off your hat for God Bless America. When they panned on the WP Cadets, they had on their hats and weren’t saluting.
It’s an insult to the National Anthem to show such respect to a pop song. I kept on my Twins hat during the playing of God Bless America. Sheesh, you don’t even lower the American flag during the playing of another nation’s national anthem.
It’s no wonder that transplants are head of many businesses headquartered in NYC.
Too soon to cut the cord on Liriano. A whole lot of talent in there somewhere, if he can overcome the physical and mental effects of surgery.
LaVelle, were the scribes in the elevator all out-of-towners? If so, maybe it didn’t break down…!
“I think the Twins got to the playoffs not because of Gardenhire but inspite of him.”
Yup. Five of the eight years he’s managed. Almost six (2008). It’s amazing how they consistently overcome that awful Gardy.
I have to admit, some of the things Gardy does drives me crazy, like pulling pitchers out too soon or too late, or not bunting when he should, not putting Liriano to pitch,, but at the end of the day, he must be doing something right
geez, who cares JOe the First???? if the Y anks take off their hats on God Bless America, thats not the worst thing they can do. That song is not our national anthem, nor is it a pop song. Baseball players do not use the same protocol as West Point cadets
Orgasimal Kevin,
Don’t have a fit. It’s not up to the Yanks to determine what’s protocol for the National Anthem. Over the loud speaker, they ask fans to remove head covers during the playing of the national anthem and that’s wrong.
Under your theory of idiocy, the Yanks protocol could be to fly the US flag upside down and it’d be okay, because, well, it’s the Yanks’ protocol.
That should read, ‘during the playing of God Bless America’ not the National Anthem, of course.
God Bless America is not our national anthem, but a traditional song honoring America. I am not saying what the Yankees did was right, I am just saying that is not my biggest concern
So what? You cares what’s your biggest concern? I merely was pointing out that the Yanks don’t have enough sense to know the protocol.
I like God Bless America, and if I like it, then it makes sense, I do not care what others think
looks to me like Joe 1st and Orgasmal Kevin are in a pi$$ing contest into the wind.
Doc Don,
Is it Orgasmal or Orgasimal?
agreed, lets argue about what it will take to sign Mauer
Joe, I googled both, orgasmal is the correct spelling. We learn something new everyday. 
I do not know any dollar amount, Kevin, all I can guess is $LOTS.
His upcoming new contract will be so many millions that the Twins will also be forced to buy insurance on his contract in case of career ending injuries which will cost additional millions.
well, what I heard he has said is he does not necessarily need to be the top paid player in baseb all. What he does need is to be convinced the Twins will field a consistantly winning team. That may cost more than giving Mauer himself a top contract.
Whew you crybabies are really going to be howling when Mauer is a FA after next year and signs with the Yankees.
We do and I did; thanks, Doc Don.
The Twins have some talented catchers in the minors.
I want Mauer to stay, but that is all but impossible.
Mauer is a great player, but the Twins will be just fine without him. Look what happened when Morneau went down. This isn’t boxing or wrestling, it’s baseball. Baseball is a team sport.
I’ve seen plenty of superstars leave their team and the team improve their record the following year. Losing Mauer is nothing to worry about.
“What he does need is to be convinced the Twins will field a consistantly winning team.”
The Twins have done that seven of the past eight years. He should be thoroughly convinced.
what they have done is fielded a team that has barely won what is usually a week division, then consistantly go NOWHWERE in the playoffs, except in 2002
What Mauer will want is to be on a team that has good chances to win World Series, when I say that, maybe win or 2 WS during his career as Puck and Hrbek did
God bless America.
Before I leave the office, I want to return to the pi$$ing contest. I like Whiter Shade of Pale, so, Orgasmal Kevin, whenever you hear it played, please remove your head cover and place if over your heart. Thanks.
Love and kisses, Joe
Land of the free.
Live free or die. So, don’t support politicians.
Joe, I am neither crooked enough nor shady enough to be a politician, as are most red blooded Americans.
DrDon,
Are you saying most Americans are or are not crooked and shady enough?
Yes, thank you for clarifying my confusing statement.
What I meant was, most are NOT.
We just vote for the ba$tards, regardless of party affiliation.
Kevin,
I think only the Yankees could convince any player that they will likely go to the world series if they sign with them.
As far as hats and caps coming off. They come off for the National Anthem only. That’s it…….oh, and when you sit down at a table for a meal, unless you are a certified moron.
Gardy chewing out Duensing was bush-league. The pitch was not grooved, it was at or slightly below the knees and A-Rod went down and hit it like a professional hitter. If Gardy is upset about it, he should be upset at himself for not walking A-Rod in the first place.
I want Mauer to stay, but that is all but impossible.
I believe it is a but impossible that the Twins let Mauer leave.
It’s not just about his elite play on the field, Mauer brings fans in droves, his local rooted marketing brings in a LOT of money, and the Twins know that if they lose him, they lose out on way more than his salary.
My guess is that they will take care of business and try to get something done before Opening Day with an announcement coming when they kick off 2010 at Target Field.
He won’t come cheap but I’m willing to bet he won’t take a greedy stance that many others would. I believe that his agent is the same agent Cal Ripken Jr. had as well as Puckett who were both single team players…so that helps, I hope.
I don’t know Joe Mauer and I don’t know what’s in his head or his heart.
But I think it would be a heck of a lot more fun to win a World Championship (or 2) with guys you came up with (like the Herbie and Kirby and the boys in ‘87 and ‘91) than it would be to win it with a group of mercenaries (thanks to whoever used that phrase earlier today — it is quite apt). That’s not to say that if he signed with Boston, NY or one of the L.A. teams that he wouldn’t develop a camaraderie with them but I do think that there is a bond among the core of the present team.
I’m going to assume that the money won’t be an issue (Twins will come up with the $$$ and Mauer won’t demand to be the game’s highest-paid player a la A-Rod). So the issue is what kinds of guarantees he’ll want on talent to surround him.
And interestingly enough, making the post-season may affect his thinking. The eventual outcome of this year’s playoffs may affect his thinking, etc. There are NO GUARANTEES that you will win a World Championship with any team — witness the “Evil Empire”. Despite all the money they’ve poured into players, they last made it to the World Series in 2003, last won in 2000. That may or may not change this year.
You cannot BUY a World Series. All you can do is put yourself in a good position to be able to get to the playoffs and win one. Yes, the Twins need to do more. The discussions between Joe and the Twins will need to focus on “how much more”.
Agree with you Eddie Shore, but the comment on greed, whether applied to the players or the Pohlads isn’t fair to the players or the Pohlads. If and when any of us were/are given the/a chance, we’d negotiate our salaries for top dollar, relative, of course, to other considerations and if any of us ran a business, we’d run it to make a profit.
It was a combination of my job and the anger and angst of the blogs that caused me to take a breather from blogging, especially after the blog comments following the sweep of the Twins by Angels in the Dome. And this applies to comments/posts made in response the Stribe’s news stories about the games.
Even playing for the Twins, Mauer will be able to get national/international endorsements. Baseball fans in Japan well know of him and his accomplishments.
Joe the First, I understand where you are coming from on the anger in the blogs but you did miss about 3 1/2 weeks of good game threads. Lots of drama and lots of fun.
jbHawkee,
I missed 2.5 months, but I was out of the country for over one month.
jb, and the usual pi$$ ants, thankfully in the minority.
Doc Don, I followed your comments for awhile, but you and Romer were overrun during the Angel series. It just got to where I said to myself, ‘take a pause and let’s see where ends up the Twins. And, by gosh, they done well.
Well, welcome back, Joe the First. And thanks for the new name! I don’t know if I can take this weekend. Twins on Friday and Sunday with Michigan playing my beloved Hawkeyes on Saturday.
Originally, I’m from SD, so I’ve always rooted for, and you’re gonna hate this, in this order, either the Gofs, Nebraska, Iowa, Iowa State, WY, or Boise State, b/c, until a few years ago, the only Division I teams in SD were the SDSU rodeo team and the Black Hills State Teachers’ College downhill skiing team, and I wanted an Upper-midwest area Div. I team to root for in FB, basketball, and BB.
Now, SDSU, USD, NDSU, and UND are Div. I, so I’ve added them to the list. I’m an Augiestaner guy myself - and post-graduate of USD.
Hey, but I don’t like Wisc. or any other Big 10 team.
What part of SD, Joe? I live about 12 miles from the border. About 65 miles southeast of Sioux Falls.
OOPs, missed the Augie reference and grad-work at USD. Know them well.
But I have to tell you that when it comes to college ball in SD, I hear the most about the University of Sioux Falls. Great small school football program.
Yea, great small school sports program, but not much of a FB stadium. Augie really does have one of the best Div II (or even Div. I) FB stadiums in the country - new this year. I saw the Concordia St. Paul/Augie game a few weeks ago in the new stadium. It’s much better than some of the Div. IA stadiums. SDSU’s FB stadium is a pit.
JpHawkee, I grew up in Sioux Falls and my oldest son and his wife and kids live there and he teaches in SF, SD. I moved east about 25+ years ago.
It really does tork me off when pitchers (especially youngsters) don’t listen to the pitching coach. It’s like throwing a fastball to a hitter on the first pitch when the scouting report tells you he’s a first pitc fastball swinger. Gardy’s mentioned that a lot since he’s taken over. As did TK back in the day.
The key to me with OC is the positive influence he’s had on GO-GO and Lexi.It’s to early to tell if it will carry over on to the field.I think his leg injury has hurt his fielding.I think he likes it here and will not ask for the moon.IMO,we all have thought we should a latin speaking coach,why not a ss?
If you want to take off your hat during God Bless America, that’s fine… and if you want to take off your hat to help TC sing “I Got Friends in Low Places” that’s fine too.
Of course stats can’t tell you what will happen with certainty, but that is true in all of life. By the logic of some here, we should abandon all effort to predict the future using science. Thankfully, those who run companies, build cars, basically do everything that is done don’t agree, and we actually do try to use science and math to predict the future. I’m constantly amazed at the fear and hatred of using math in this society.
Mike, baseball stats are not science. They are simply a record of what has happened. A scientific approach is to isolate individual factors that can be studied. Things like bat speed and pitch break can be measured scientifically.
Baseball is truth, not fact.
Applying scientific principles to what has happened to predict what will happen, that’s pretty much math/science right there. That’s all some people try to do. Some people say that’s stupid (not you, but some people). I’ve never understood that.
Mauer will sign with the Twins.
He just bought a car dealership. His best friend Morneau says he won’t speak to him ever again if he doesn’t sign with the Twins.
Mauer will sign.
My guess: 6 years, $140 million.
The problem with using past performance in baseball is that you can’t isolate any of the variables that lead to each outcome beyond the individuals involved. No two hits are exactly the same. Wind, time of day, energy levels of players, it goes on and on.
You can do plenty of accounting to feel safe in your investment in a player, but you can not know for anything resembling certainty that the performance will continue as previously observed.
That is a major reason why I love baseball more than any other sport. It is truly unpredictable.
I understand the need to feel in control of one’s own expectations and how sabermetrics gives a person a way to at think they have realistic expectations. I just cringe at people who think they have it figured out, just ‘cuz some numbers line up.
This isn’t to say numbers are completely useless. They’re not. They do give you some idea of what a player has accomplished and suggest likelihoods. But they’re nothing more than trends. Trends are useful over the long haul like a season. But they are useless in a sort span of isolated events.
The scientifically verifiable advatages that the Yankees had in game one are now many fewer.
The Twins players should have less muscle and emotional fatigue and probably are on a similar footing again (provided the team has a similar fitness program for the players).
The Twins will have time to return to a more standard preparation regimen.
The Yankees will still have the benefit of the crowd and familiarity with the playing field.
The Twins, however, will have the same number of left handed hitters (one more if Gardy insists on keeping Morales at DH). Remembering that Molina will be catching tonight.
They have greater defensive speed and also have a unit that is focused on winning and not bickering about who should be playing.
And to some it may seem like mental illness, but I see the Teams as being very able and very likely to win tonight. Love it.
Dood…interesting post. All I know is I know nothing about anything. So I just say let the players prove everything on the field, and may the team that scores more runs will win the game. Hey, that I know!!! GO TWINS!!!!!
Darn right, DrD. Just battle the tails right into the off position. Y>0, Yankees X, Twins X+Y. That’s all the math we need.
Dood,
Very nicely articulated post. This touches on the essence of so many fans confusion with some of Gardy’s actions. Gardy is with the players all work day. It’s his job to observe and stack the blocks the best way. Some fans look at whatever their favorite numbers are and figure Gardy is a moron or insane because he doesn’t come to the same conclusion as them. They think he’s hallucinating instead of wondering just what he sees that they don’t.
Anyway, nice job.
First off the team with the best record in the league has the option of deciding on which series they want one with 1 day off or 2 days off, they didn’t just let the Yankees decide that because they are the Yankees.
Secondly, the Yankees play God Bless America in the 7th inning to honor the 3000 PEOPLE THAT DIED IN A TERRORIST ATTACK ON NEW YORK CITY. and I would bet that at least 1/2 of the people in the seats either lost someone they knew or knew someone that lost a loved one. How about a little compassion, while I’m sure life hasn’t changed one iota in Minnesota, things here in NY are drastically different. Cops and Military at all bridge and tunnel crossings and all mass transit hubs, access to some roads restricted or no longer accessible…metal detectors in all places of public gathering,long slow lines to get into all games and concerts, causing most New Yorkers to arrive at least an hour or more before event time to assure that you’ll get in on time. And…it’s not like the Yankees arent “stiffening up” during that delay like the Twins are.
Dood-Gardy just makes up the lineup card,the players have to produce on the field.La Ruca(sp),Torre and Leyland play hunches,last time i checked,they are future HOF managers!
