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	<title>Comments on: It is indeed a warning to the MSHSL</title>
	<link>http://blogs2.startribune.com/blogs/preps/2009/06/29/lake-conference-says-goodbye-to-eden-prairie/</link>
	<description>The best of Minnesota high school sports</description>
	<pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 01:58:10 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Jim Skelly</title>
		<link>http://blogs2.startribune.com/blogs/preps/2009/06/29/lake-conference-says-goodbye-to-eden-prairie/#comment-6901</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Skelly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Jul 2009 22:39:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blogs2.startribune.com/blogs/preps/2009/06/29/lake-conference-says-goodbye-to-eden-prairie/#comment-6901</guid>
		<description>Here's some food for thought:
1. I'm a member of the Lakeville School Board.
2. Without John Millea's personal interest and persistence on this topic, I would have ZERO information on any of these issues.
3. We have over 2000-3000 students who would be impacted by this decision.
4. Our district has had three years of progressive cuts and fee increases.
5. The best solution for us - and all of our neighbors - is a South of the River conference.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here&#8217;s some food for thought:<br />
1. I&#8217;m a member of the Lakeville School Board.<br />
2. Without John Millea&#8217;s personal interest and persistence on this topic, I would have ZERO information on any of these issues.<br />
3. We have over 2000-3000 students who would be impacted by this decision.<br />
4. Our district has had three years of progressive cuts and fee increases.<br />
5. The best solution for us - and all of our neighbors - is a South of the River conference.</p>
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		<title>By: EPRunner89</title>
		<link>http://blogs2.startribune.com/blogs/preps/2009/06/29/lake-conference-says-goodbye-to-eden-prairie/#comment-6780</link>
		<dc:creator>EPRunner89</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jun 2009 06:39:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blogs2.startribune.com/blogs/preps/2009/06/29/lake-conference-says-goodbye-to-eden-prairie/#comment-6780</guid>
		<description>As a former Lake Conference competitor, I am sad to see it die. I loved competing in Lake Conference b/c it was so competitive. Although having 14 schools in 1 conference is probably just too many, I think it would be great to have the 4 Classic Lake schools join the Lake and make a Mega conference w/ a majority of the top teams in the state in 1 conference. It is more fun to compete against the best and it brings every one competing to a higher level. I would also be okay with EP joining w/ the 4 classic lake schools b/c then all the Mega schools would be in one conference, although I think 5 isn't enough schools for a conference. I would like to see those 4 classic lake schools join the current lake conference, which would make 14 teams w/ Chaska/Chanhassen leaving the conference. Bloomington seems to not quite fit in the lake conference in  a lot of sports (particularly Kennedy), so maybe Bloomington would be better off moving to a smaller conference and then Lake would have 12 teams which would be a reasonable number and it would be even stronger than before. This is unlikely to actually happen, but I think it would be sweet if it did. I would rather place lower in the ultra competitive lake conference then blow away everyone year after year is a less competitive one. If the other schools really are just trying to boot EP from the conference, that is just dumb b/c EP is not unbeatable-EP only won like half the conference championships this yr which means the other schools won the other half. It's sad they are fleeing good competition. Even the titles EP won, were close battles for the conference title in a lot of sports, and the winner may be different if the competitions were redone. Personally, I want to compete against the top teams, not avoid them

As far as complaining about Eden Prairie and Wayzata being too big and needing to split into two schools, that is completely irrelevant in regards to placing schools in conferences, b/c individual schools boards make those decisions, not the conferences or mshsl. The only people who think these schools need to split are the people who don't live in these cities who are jealous of Eden Prairie's success. While large enrollment numbers are an advantage to fielding competitive teams, the role this factor plays in being over emphasized. Burnsville has close to the same enrollment numbers as EP, but is not nearly as competitive as EP in the conference. Lakeville and Eastview are not as big as EP, but both are very competitive in the conference and state. I can remember unbeatable Marshal and Willmar boys cc teams in state competition a few yrs back-both much smaller w/ less money than the mega schools. The city schools are power houses in badminton against monster schools like EP and Burnsville. In girls alpine skiing, where money plays a huge role in success, EP girls' team is terrible despite having a large student base to draw from and many wealthy families. Yes, money and large enrollment numbers increase chances of success for schools, but schools like EP, Tonka, Wayzata, Hopkins, Edina, etc. do not win year after year just b/c they have large schools and lots of money. They have established good programs and have students who work hard to succeed and communities that support these students.

Eden Prairie chose not to split a long time ago b/c they've seen what has happened to other schools who have split and then the population decreased and they had to close the 2nd school. 
As a recent Eden Prairie grad, I can say I feel that most of the students at EPHS enjoy the unity of having one high school that is successful in many areas and likely would not be in favor of splitting. While having a large school makes it harder to make a varsity team at EP, there are still plenty of playing opportunities on all different levels in most sports. For example, Most team sports have 3-5 teams for each gender along with an extensive intramural program which many kids enjoy participating in, not to mention the numerous clubs at the HS and club sports programs outside the school. Most of the individual sports at EPHS do not make cuts. The football team does not make cuts. Mike Grant does a good job at giving all 100+ guys a chance to play. Often when EP is up by a lot, nearly every guy will get in for at least one play. The guys who don't get to play a lot in varsity games get to play the JV games as well. We had 2 girls move here who went from being the top cc runners at their old school to middle JV on EP's team. They have improved a lot since coming here and have run much faster on JV in EP than they probably ever would have run on their varsity team at their old school. The people who feel their kids don't have a chance of making varsity in EP and have an issue w/ that either move or send their kids to private schools or open enroll in neighboring districts. The only people who complain about EP being too big and not having enough playing opportunities are the people who do not attend EP schools and are not affected by it anyways. While I agree Mike Grant cares more about football than the other sports, he still is a great guy and I wish people who do not even know him would stop hating on him.  

Also, the argument about having to drive too far in the current Lake Conference is dumb. A 30 min drive once in a while to play the conference members on the other side of town isn't a big deal.

Sorry, this turned into a long rant, but I just wanted to clear some stuff up about EP, since many people here who know nothing about EP are hating on the Eagles just b/c they are jealous EP wins a lot of stuff.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a former Lake Conference competitor, I am sad to see it die. I loved competing in Lake Conference b/c it was so competitive. Although having 14 schools in 1 conference is probably just too many, I think it would be great to have the 4 Classic Lake schools join the Lake and make a Mega conference w/ a majority of the top teams in the state in 1 conference. It is more fun to compete against the best and it brings every one competing to a higher level. I would also be okay with EP joining w/ the 4 classic lake schools b/c then all the Mega schools would be in one conference, although I think 5 isn&#8217;t enough schools for a conference. I would like to see those 4 classic lake schools join the current lake conference, which would make 14 teams w/ Chaska/Chanhassen leaving the conference. Bloomington seems to not quite fit in the lake conference in  a lot of sports (particularly Kennedy), so maybe Bloomington would be better off moving to a smaller conference and then Lake would have 12 teams which would be a reasonable number and it would be even stronger than before. This is unlikely to actually happen, but I think it would be sweet if it did. I would rather place lower in the ultra competitive lake conference then blow away everyone year after year is a less competitive one. If the other schools really are just trying to boot EP from the conference, that is just dumb b/c EP is not unbeatable-EP only won like half the conference championships this yr which means the other schools won the other half. It&#8217;s sad they are fleeing good competition. Even the titles EP won, were close battles for the conference title in a lot of sports, and the winner may be different if the competitions were redone. Personally, I want to compete against the top teams, not avoid them</p>
<p>As far as complaining about Eden Prairie and Wayzata being too big and needing to split into two schools, that is completely irrelevant in regards to placing schools in conferences, b/c individual schools boards make those decisions, not the conferences or mshsl. The only people who think these schools need to split are the people who don&#8217;t live in these cities who are jealous of Eden Prairie&#8217;s success. While large enrollment numbers are an advantage to fielding competitive teams, the role this factor plays in being over emphasized. Burnsville has close to the same enrollment numbers as EP, but is not nearly as competitive as EP in the conference. Lakeville and Eastview are not as big as EP, but both are very competitive in the conference and state. I can remember unbeatable Marshal and Willmar boys cc teams in state competition a few yrs back-both much smaller w/ less money than the mega schools. The city schools are power houses in badminton against monster schools like EP and Burnsville. In girls alpine skiing, where money plays a huge role in success, EP girls&#8217; team is terrible despite having a large student base to draw from and many wealthy families. Yes, money and large enrollment numbers increase chances of success for schools, but schools like EP, Tonka, Wayzata, Hopkins, Edina, etc. do not win year after year just b/c they have large schools and lots of money. They have established good programs and have students who work hard to succeed and communities that support these students.</p>
<p>Eden Prairie chose not to split a long time ago b/c they&#8217;ve seen what has happened to other schools who have split and then the population decreased and they had to close the 2nd school.<br />
As a recent Eden Prairie grad, I can say I feel that most of the students at EPHS enjoy the unity of having one high school that is successful in many areas and likely would not be in favor of splitting. While having a large school makes it harder to make a varsity team at EP, there are still plenty of playing opportunities on all different levels in most sports. For example, Most team sports have 3-5 teams for each gender along with an extensive intramural program which many kids enjoy participating in, not to mention the numerous clubs at the HS and club sports programs outside the school. Most of the individual sports at EPHS do not make cuts. The football team does not make cuts. Mike Grant does a good job at giving all 100+ guys a chance to play. Often when EP is up by a lot, nearly every guy will get in for at least one play. The guys who don&#8217;t get to play a lot in varsity games get to play the JV games as well. We had 2 girls move here who went from being the top cc runners at their old school to middle JV on EP&#8217;s team. They have improved a lot since coming here and have run much faster on JV in EP than they probably ever would have run on their varsity team at their old school. The people who feel their kids don&#8217;t have a chance of making varsity in EP and have an issue w/ that either move or send their kids to private schools or open enroll in neighboring districts. The only people who complain about EP being too big and not having enough playing opportunities are the people who do not attend EP schools and are not affected by it anyways. While I agree Mike Grant cares more about football than the other sports, he still is a great guy and I wish people who do not even know him would stop hating on him.  </p>
<p>Also, the argument about having to drive too far in the current Lake Conference is dumb. A 30 min drive once in a while to play the conference members on the other side of town isn&#8217;t a big deal.</p>
<p>Sorry, this turned into a long rant, but I just wanted to clear some stuff up about EP, since many people here who know nothing about EP are hating on the Eagles just b/c they are jealous EP wins a lot of stuff.</p>
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		<title>By: Lakefan</title>
		<link>http://blogs2.startribune.com/blogs/preps/2009/06/29/lake-conference-says-goodbye-to-eden-prairie/#comment-6778</link>
		<dc:creator>Lakefan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jun 2009 01:38:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blogs2.startribune.com/blogs/preps/2009/06/29/lake-conference-says-goodbye-to-eden-prairie/#comment-6778</guid>
		<description>Chas,

I never mentioned Burnsville.  And Kennedy to Apple Valley in 10 minutes?  Not even at 2 AM.  My point is, put conferences together based on proximity.  Kennedy, Jefferson, Edina, Hopkins, EP, Tonka, Burnsville, AHA???  Football is just one sport.  It's one game a season, the kids will live.  Eight teams, send Wayzata North somewhere.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chas,</p>
<p>I never mentioned Burnsville.  And Kennedy to Apple Valley in 10 minutes?  Not even at 2 AM.  My point is, put conferences together based on proximity.  Kennedy, Jefferson, Edina, Hopkins, EP, Tonka, Burnsville, AHA???  Football is just one sport.  It&#8217;s one game a season, the kids will live.  Eight teams, send Wayzata North somewhere.</p>
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		<title>By: eaa</title>
		<link>http://blogs2.startribune.com/blogs/preps/2009/06/29/lake-conference-says-goodbye-to-eden-prairie/#comment-6777</link>
		<dc:creator>eaa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jun 2009 01:29:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blogs2.startribune.com/blogs/preps/2009/06/29/lake-conference-says-goodbye-to-eden-prairie/#comment-6777</guid>
		<description>If the Lake could have just taken Edina and Wayzata, this would be settled.  They didn't want Hopkins and Tonka and when they got all four it was over.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If the Lake could have just taken Edina and Wayzata, this would be settled.  They didn&#8217;t want Hopkins and Tonka and when they got all four it was over.</p>
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		<title>By: WhatAboutBob</title>
		<link>http://blogs2.startribune.com/blogs/preps/2009/06/29/lake-conference-says-goodbye-to-eden-prairie/#comment-6776</link>
		<dc:creator>WhatAboutBob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jun 2009 01:06:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blogs2.startribune.com/blogs/preps/2009/06/29/lake-conference-says-goodbye-to-eden-prairie/#comment-6776</guid>
		<description>A new conference with only five teams is not the MSHSL's problem - it's the problem of the five schools who make up that conference.  And any conference realignment that doesn't put the mega schools (EP and Wayzata) together is foolish.  Seems to me that's why there was this secret committee that gathered the information and they decided, based on the data given, that the four Classic Lake schools fit best in the south.  NOW, the Lake Conference wants to say, "well, we'll take two or three, but not all four."????  Why didn't they just accept two or three when they applied in the first place?  Talk about changing their tune!  It's no wonder the "sources" that Millea talked to today regarding the Lake Conference meeting are changing their stories - they've been disingenuous from the start.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A new conference with only five teams is not the MSHSL&#8217;s problem - it&#8217;s the problem of the five schools who make up that conference.  And any conference realignment that doesn&#8217;t put the mega schools (EP and Wayzata) together is foolish.  Seems to me that&#8217;s why there was this secret committee that gathered the information and they decided, based on the data given, that the four Classic Lake schools fit best in the south.  NOW, the Lake Conference wants to say, &#8220;well, we&#8217;ll take two or three, but not all four.&#8221;????  Why didn&#8217;t they just accept two or three when they applied in the first place?  Talk about changing their tune!  It&#8217;s no wonder the &#8220;sources&#8221; that Millea talked to today regarding the Lake Conference meeting are changing their stories - they&#8217;ve been disingenuous from the start.</p>
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		<title>By: tonkaboy</title>
		<link>http://blogs2.startribune.com/blogs/preps/2009/06/29/lake-conference-says-goodbye-to-eden-prairie/#comment-6775</link>
		<dc:creator>tonkaboy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jun 2009 00:49:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blogs2.startribune.com/blogs/preps/2009/06/29/lake-conference-says-goodbye-to-eden-prairie/#comment-6775</guid>
		<description>There's a lot of noise here from folks who have little knowledge of how the school-district boundary lines actually happen out here in the burbs. Like this statement:

"It’s a painful process, but ultimately, the board has to figure out a line that splits the district into two areas. Lakeville’s district also goes beyond its city limits."

This is meaningless. Kids in eastern Minnetonka are in the Hopkins school district. Kids in northern Eden Prairie are in the Minnetonka school district. And kids in northeastern Chanhassen are in the Minnetonka school district. The vast majority of kids in the Wayzata school district do not live in Wayzata. The city boundaries nothing to do with the school-district lines.

As for being scared of the megaschools: that's not the fault of the megaschools. Take the principal of Minnetonka HS, for example. Yes, Dave Adney is committed to athletics. He's also as passionate about things like debate, speech, mock trial, et al. He's as likely to be at the student film festival as a football game. 

Millea is reporting accurately what he's being told. He's one of the best in the biz.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There&#8217;s a lot of noise here from folks who have little knowledge of how the school-district boundary lines actually happen out here in the burbs. Like this statement:</p>
<p>&#8220;It’s a painful process, but ultimately, the board has to figure out a line that splits the district into two areas. Lakeville’s district also goes beyond its city limits.&#8221;</p>
<p>This is meaningless. Kids in eastern Minnetonka are in the Hopkins school district. Kids in northern Eden Prairie are in the Minnetonka school district. And kids in northeastern Chanhassen are in the Minnetonka school district. The vast majority of kids in the Wayzata school district do not live in Wayzata. The city boundaries nothing to do with the school-district lines.</p>
<p>As for being scared of the megaschools: that&#8217;s not the fault of the megaschools. Take the principal of Minnetonka HS, for example. Yes, Dave Adney is committed to athletics. He&#8217;s also as passionate about things like debate, speech, mock trial, et al. He&#8217;s as likely to be at the student film festival as a football game. </p>
<p>Millea is reporting accurately what he&#8217;s being told. He&#8217;s one of the best in the biz.</p>
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		<title>By: Chas</title>
		<link>http://blogs2.startribune.com/blogs/preps/2009/06/29/lake-conference-says-goodbye-to-eden-prairie/#comment-6774</link>
		<dc:creator>Chas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jun 2009 00:38:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blogs2.startribune.com/blogs/preps/2009/06/29/lake-conference-says-goodbye-to-eden-prairie/#comment-6774</guid>
		<description>john... As of right now, mobile.startribune.com still has only your orginal posting and none of the updates. You might want to communicate with whoever's responsible over there to update the link.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>john&#8230; As of right now, mobile.startribune.com still has only your orginal posting and none of the updates. You might want to communicate with whoever&#8217;s responsible over there to update the link.</p>
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		<title>By: EP33</title>
		<link>http://blogs2.startribune.com/blogs/preps/2009/06/29/lake-conference-says-goodbye-to-eden-prairie/#comment-6773</link>
		<dc:creator>EP33</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jun 2009 00:21:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blogs2.startribune.com/blogs/preps/2009/06/29/lake-conference-says-goodbye-to-eden-prairie/#comment-6773</guid>
		<description>I dont see the problem with teams playing each other during the regular season. They split all the powerful teams up pretty well come section time anyway. Having EP play Wayzata, Minnetonka, etc. just makes for more interesting regular season games.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I dont see the problem with teams playing each other during the regular season. They split all the powerful teams up pretty well come section time anyway. Having EP play Wayzata, Minnetonka, etc. just makes for more interesting regular season games.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave</title>
		<link>http://blogs2.startribune.com/blogs/preps/2009/06/29/lake-conference-says-goodbye-to-eden-prairie/#comment-6772</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jun 2009 00:21:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blogs2.startribune.com/blogs/preps/2009/06/29/lake-conference-says-goodbye-to-eden-prairie/#comment-6772</guid>
		<description>John - 

You went with the facts as you had them and confirmed them with multiple sources.  I'm sure there were a lot of emails, phone calls and buyers remorse going on.  If it was a public meeting and they had a public vote - than that is a matter of record and you're talking some pretty serious stuff if they change / alter the minutes of that meeting. 

Bottom line on the conferences - why don't they (MSHSL) just take all of the teams and divide by geography? Wayzata, Tonka, Armstrong, Cooper, MG, Orono, and Hopkins would make a nice quick travel league. 

Just to put the topic of Wayzata splitting to bed... It's so ridiculous that it will never see the light of day. Wayzata enrollment (actual kids in seats) is declining. The school board is scrambling to find new bodies. Plymouth is 85% developed. MG (the part in Wayzata District) is about 75% developed. They aren't going to have unlimited kids forever.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John - </p>
<p>You went with the facts as you had them and confirmed them with multiple sources.  I&#8217;m sure there were a lot of emails, phone calls and buyers remorse going on.  If it was a public meeting and they had a public vote - than that is a matter of record and you&#8217;re talking some pretty serious stuff if they change / alter the minutes of that meeting. </p>
<p>Bottom line on the conferences - why don&#8217;t they (MSHSL) just take all of the teams and divide by geography? Wayzata, Tonka, Armstrong, Cooper, MG, Orono, and Hopkins would make a nice quick travel league. </p>
<p>Just to put the topic of Wayzata splitting to bed&#8230; It&#8217;s so ridiculous that it will never see the light of day. Wayzata enrollment (actual kids in seats) is declining. The school board is scrambling to find new bodies. Plymouth is 85% developed. MG (the part in Wayzata District) is about 75% developed. They aren&#8217;t going to have unlimited kids forever.</p>
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		<title>By: Thor Von Clemsen</title>
		<link>http://blogs2.startribune.com/blogs/preps/2009/06/29/lake-conference-says-goodbye-to-eden-prairie/#comment-6771</link>
		<dc:creator>Thor Von Clemsen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jun 2009 00:14:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blogs2.startribune.com/blogs/preps/2009/06/29/lake-conference-says-goodbye-to-eden-prairie/#comment-6771</guid>
		<description>I'm no big Mike Grant fan, but how is that arrogant to say "nobody wants to play you" when literally every team in your conference is likely leaving?  Come on, how is that not what's happening</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m no big Mike Grant fan, but how is that arrogant to say &#8220;nobody wants to play you&#8221; when literally every team in your conference is likely leaving?  Come on, how is that not what&#8217;s happening</p>
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