Comments on: Wayzata and Hopkins have filed appeals http://blogs2.startribune.com/blogs/preps/2009/07/06/wayzata-and-hopkins-have-filed-appeals/ The best of Minnesota high school sports Mon, 23 Nov 2009 18:55:58 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.3 By: Wayzata Dave http://blogs2.startribune.com/blogs/preps/2009/07/06/wayzata-and-hopkins-have-filed-appeals/#comment-6949 Wayzata Dave Thu, 09 Jul 2009 15:40:09 +0000 http://blogs2.startribune.com/blogs/preps/2009/07/06/wayzata-and-hopkins-have-filed-appeals/#comment-6949 Chuck - And what you said is exactly the problem..."will be in the best interest of the students in their respective schools..." instead of as John pointed out... "Work for the good of all students" That's an important difference - Is the Classic Lake sin-free? I seriously doubt it... But is the Lake also guilt free? and the NWSC? If you dig deep enough you'll find issues any place. Since apparently no one wants to decide or has the authority to decide what is good for all students, we are stuck with the local thinking and precieved or real slights that have occurred. What these Supers need is a strong governance body to come in and say this is how the conferences are going to be - Period. We don't have that apparently with MSHL. Chuck -

And what you said is exactly the problem…”will be in the best interest of the students in their respective schools…” instead of as John pointed out… “Work for the good of all students”

That’s an important difference - Is the Classic Lake sin-free? I seriously doubt it… But is the Lake also guilt free? and the NWSC? If you dig deep enough you’ll find issues any place.

Since apparently no one wants to decide or has the authority to decide what is good for all students, we are stuck with the local thinking and precieved or real slights that have occurred.

What these Supers need is a strong governance body to come in and say this is how the conferences are going to be - Period. We don’t have that apparently with MSHL.

]]> By: Chuck http://blogs2.startribune.com/blogs/preps/2009/07/06/wayzata-and-hopkins-have-filed-appeals/#comment-6947 Chuck Wed, 08 Jul 2009 23:58:51 +0000 http://blogs2.startribune.com/blogs/preps/2009/07/06/wayzata-and-hopkins-have-filed-appeals/#comment-6947 John, Whatever decision the Lake administrators end up making will be in the best interest of the students in their respective schools. Neither they nor the administrators in the NWSC are responsible for the situation that the Classic Lake schools find themselves in, and neither they nor the NWSC are responsible for fixing it. The Classic Lake schools have repeatedly made overtures to many schools seeking new members, and the results are always the same, thanks but no thanks. Their repeated failure to retain former members and recruit new ones is more a result of how some of the schools treat each other, rather than any success they have achieved in athletics. Think not? check with the folks in SLP, Richfield, Cooper and Armstrong. John,
Whatever decision the Lake administrators end up making will be in the best interest of the students in their respective schools. Neither they nor the administrators in the NWSC are responsible for the situation that the Classic Lake schools find themselves in, and neither they nor the NWSC are responsible for fixing it.

The Classic Lake schools have repeatedly made overtures to many schools seeking new members, and the results are always the same, thanks but no thanks. Their repeated failure to retain former members and recruit new ones is more a result of how some of the schools treat each other, rather than any success they have achieved
in athletics. Think not? check with the folks in SLP, Richfield, Cooper and Armstrong.

]]> By: John Millea http://blogs2.startribune.com/blogs/preps/2009/07/06/wayzata-and-hopkins-have-filed-appeals/#comment-6946 John Millea Wed, 08 Jul 2009 22:43:00 +0000 http://blogs2.startribune.com/blogs/preps/2009/07/06/wayzata-and-hopkins-have-filed-appeals/#comment-6946 Dave, I can confirm that hard feelings remain from the long-ago days when the current Classic Lake schools broke loose from the Lake. There aren't many current Lake administrators who bridge that time period, but some apparently have passed on those hard feelings to their successors. It certainly makes no sense to me, especially for people who supposedly work for the good of all students. Dave, I can confirm that hard feelings remain from the long-ago days when the current Classic Lake schools broke loose from the Lake. There aren’t many current Lake administrators who bridge that time period, but some apparently have passed on those hard feelings to their successors. It certainly makes no sense to me, especially for people who supposedly work for the good of all students.

]]> By: Wayzata Dave http://blogs2.startribune.com/blogs/preps/2009/07/06/wayzata-and-hopkins-have-filed-appeals/#comment-6944 Wayzata Dave Wed, 08 Jul 2009 20:47:24 +0000 http://blogs2.startribune.com/blogs/preps/2009/07/06/wayzata-and-hopkins-have-filed-appeals/#comment-6944 Ok - did some digging and found that the vote on Armstrong was in November of 2008, so that means that the current Wayzata administration was in place... so no pleading ignorance or turnover on board or any out that I can see. Going to try and corner a Wayzata Board member and see if I can get some insight...but my guess is that he'll plead ignorance. Guess this is going to fall into the you made your bed, now sleep in it category. Wayzata didn't want Armstrong around (vote was 4-1, with Armstrong being the one No) now they and Hopkins will have to deal with the placement in the Lake Conference. What will be interesting is to see how the Superintendants of the current Lake Schools react to all of this and if they truly do vote on leaving the Lake Conference. It's also interesting (and I think that John pointed this out at one point) that Wayzata had applied to the NWSC and was denied. So basically the one conference that made sense for them turned them down... Finally - I can't (ok - maybe I can) believe that there are still hard feelings from the Lake Conference schools from 16 years ago when the Classic Lake was formed. Ok - did some digging and found that the vote on Armstrong was in November of 2008, so that means that the current Wayzata administration was in place… so no pleading ignorance or turnover on board or any out that I can see.

Going to try and corner a Wayzata Board member and see if I can get some insight…but my guess is that he’ll plead ignorance.

Guess this is going to fall into the you made your bed, now sleep in it category. Wayzata didn’t want Armstrong around (vote was 4-1, with Armstrong being the one No) now they and Hopkins will have to deal with the placement in the Lake Conference.

What will be interesting is to see how the Superintendants of the current Lake Schools react to all of this and if they truly do vote on leaving the Lake Conference.

It’s also interesting (and I think that John pointed this out at one point) that Wayzata had applied to the NWSC and was denied. So basically the one conference that made sense for them turned them down…

Finally - I can’t (ok - maybe I can) believe that there are still hard feelings from the Lake Conference schools from 16 years ago when the Classic Lake was formed.

]]> By: Fisherman http://blogs2.startribune.com/blogs/preps/2009/07/06/wayzata-and-hopkins-have-filed-appeals/#comment-6941 Fisherman Wed, 08 Jul 2009 02:08:46 +0000 http://blogs2.startribune.com/blogs/preps/2009/07/06/wayzata-and-hopkins-have-filed-appeals/#comment-6941 Wayzata Dave seems to make the most sense here. Granting the appeal will not change the NWSC or the Lake Conference - at least for a year or two. Both conferences will be able to accommodate the new schools with creative scheduling and divisions in football. Granting the appeal will work better for Dave Stead as well, making up for the absurdity of the Placement Committee's decision that was not based on the 4 criteria established by the league. The Lake Conference's presentation at that meeting covered all 4 of the criteria while the NWSC dealt only with socio-economic issues. These issues were off topic for the committee as stated by the MSHSL guidelines. This finding by the PC was analogous to the Supreme Court "inventing" a privacy clause in the U.S. Constitution. Wayzata Dave seems to make the most sense here. Granting the appeal will not change the NWSC or the Lake Conference - at least for a year or two. Both conferences will be able to accommodate the new schools with creative scheduling and divisions in football. Granting the appeal will work better for Dave Stead as well, making up for the absurdity of the Placement Committee’s decision that was not based on the 4 criteria established by the league. The Lake Conference’s presentation at that meeting covered all 4 of the criteria while the NWSC dealt only with socio-economic issues. These issues were off topic for the committee as stated by the MSHSL guidelines. This finding by the PC was analogous to the Supreme Court “inventing” a privacy clause in the U.S. Constitution.

]]> By: Wayzata Dave http://blogs2.startribune.com/blogs/preps/2009/07/06/wayzata-and-hopkins-have-filed-appeals/#comment-6940 Wayzata Dave Tue, 07 Jul 2009 21:01:18 +0000 http://blogs2.startribune.com/blogs/preps/2009/07/06/wayzata-and-hopkins-have-filed-appeals/#comment-6940 If appeal is granted then I think everyone gets what they want (after a fashion) Wayzata and Hopkins go to the NW Suburban which makes sense. EP stays in the Lake (where they are now) and the Lake adds 2 teams to replace the 2 that they are losing. Remember that the reason the "placement" didn't sit well with the Lake conference is because it was 4 teams, not 1 or 2. I think that if the appeal is upheld everyone will be somewhat happy... Wayzata and Hopkins will have some explaining to do at the appeal - why did they vote for kicking Armstrong out? (see my previous comment for why I think Wayzata went along with it) and Why would they now be okay with playing in a conference with Armstrong? Hint: Chace Anderson may want to read my previous comment and claim it was all his predecessor's fault...Also it wouldn't hurt to send Jay Hesby and Greg Rye (the two new board members) to the meeting to plead ignorance. Then and only then - they may have a chance... Not sure what Hopkin's story will be... Peer pressure? If appeal is granted then I think everyone gets what they want (after a fashion)

Wayzata and Hopkins go to the NW Suburban which makes sense. EP stays in the Lake (where they are now) and the Lake adds 2 teams to replace the 2 that they are losing.

Remember that the reason the “placement” didn’t sit well with the Lake conference is because it was 4 teams, not 1 or 2. I think that if the appeal is upheld everyone will be somewhat happy… Wayzata and Hopkins will have some explaining to do at the appeal - why did they vote for kicking Armstrong out? (see my previous comment for why I think Wayzata went along with it) and Why would they now be okay with playing in a conference with Armstrong?

Hint: Chace Anderson may want to read my previous comment and claim it was all his predecessor’s fault…Also it wouldn’t hurt to send Jay Hesby and Greg Rye (the two new board members) to the meeting to plead ignorance. Then and only then - they may have a chance… Not sure what Hopkin’s story will be… Peer pressure?

]]> By: Obamanation http://blogs2.startribune.com/blogs/preps/2009/07/06/wayzata-and-hopkins-have-filed-appeals/#comment-6939 Obamanation Tue, 07 Jul 2009 19:45:15 +0000 http://blogs2.startribune.com/blogs/preps/2009/07/06/wayzata-and-hopkins-have-filed-appeals/#comment-6939 Appeal denied = A new 5 school conference (EP, Edina, Hopkins, Tonka, Wayzata) Appeal granted = A new 5 school conference (EP, Edina, Tonka, Jeff, JFK) Bloomington may have enough political clout to be annexed into the Dakota Conference. Appeal denied = A new 5 school conference (EP, Edina, Hopkins, Tonka, Wayzata)

Appeal granted = A new 5 school conference
(EP, Edina, Tonka, Jeff, JFK)

Bloomington may have enough political clout to be annexed into the Dakota Conference.

]]> By: John Millea http://blogs2.startribune.com/blogs/preps/2009/07/06/wayzata-and-hopkins-have-filed-appeals/#comment-6938 John Millea Tue, 07 Jul 2009 19:13:31 +0000 http://blogs2.startribune.com/blogs/preps/2009/07/06/wayzata-and-hopkins-have-filed-appeals/#comment-6938 Wayzata Dave, I agree with your prediction. I also think there's a chance that Bloomington Jefferson and Kennedy could be left hanging if a Dakota County conference takes shape. We might see Jefferson and Kennedy tossed in with EP and the four Classic Lakes. Wayzata Dave, I agree with your prediction. I also think there’s a chance that Bloomington Jefferson and Kennedy could be left hanging if a Dakota County conference takes shape. We might see Jefferson and Kennedy tossed in with EP and the four Classic Lakes.

]]> By: Wayzata Dave http://blogs2.startribune.com/blogs/preps/2009/07/06/wayzata-and-hopkins-have-filed-appeals/#comment-6937 Wayzata Dave Tue, 07 Jul 2009 18:14:09 +0000 http://blogs2.startribune.com/blogs/preps/2009/07/06/wayzata-and-hopkins-have-filed-appeals/#comment-6937 My prediction: Appeal is denied for the reasons that you (John) have laid out above. Classic Lake finishes after the 2009-2010 year. The 4 classic lake teams go to the lake conference in 2010-2011, but before then - the orginial Lake Conference members vote to pull out and form their own league. Classic Lake then reforms with Hopkins, Wayzata, Minnetonka, Edina and Eden Prairie. Basically the CL gets what it apparently wanted: A conference of equals (although someone probably needs to double check Hopkin's numbers on Free / Reduced Lunch) which includes EP but doesn't include Armstrong. My prediction:

Appeal is denied for the reasons that you (John) have laid out above. Classic Lake finishes after the 2009-2010 year. The 4 classic lake teams go to the lake conference in 2010-2011, but before then - the orginial Lake Conference members vote to pull out and form their own league. Classic Lake then reforms with Hopkins, Wayzata, Minnetonka, Edina and Eden Prairie.

Basically the CL gets what it apparently wanted: A conference of equals (although someone probably needs to double check Hopkin’s numbers on Free / Reduced Lunch) which includes EP but doesn’t include Armstrong.

]]> By: John Millea http://blogs2.startribune.com/blogs/preps/2009/07/06/wayzata-and-hopkins-have-filed-appeals/#comment-6934 John Millea Tue, 07 Jul 2009 16:56:47 +0000 http://blogs2.startribune.com/blogs/preps/2009/07/06/wayzata-and-hopkins-have-filed-appeals/#comment-6934 The chances of the Lake splitting appear to be very strong. Here's what I was told by a school-board member from a Dakota County school district: "There is no chance politically of sending our kids and families to Wayzata or Hopkins when we have neighboring schools in the number and quality there is today." The chances of the Lake splitting appear to be very strong. Here’s what I was told by a school-board member from a Dakota County school district: “There is no chance politically of sending our kids and families to Wayzata or Hopkins when we have neighboring schools in the number and quality there is today.”

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