Tuesday (Hating the fans) edition: Wha’ Happened?
Posted on February 5th, 2008 – 8:09 AMBy Michael Rand
Say what you will and make all the jokes you want: But you can’t honestly say you dislike Tom Brady, the quarterback and person. He’s the American Dream: start with very little, get an incredible break, and never let go. You can dislike Randy Moss if you think he was a jerk in Minnesota, but you cannot deny that to watch him in full stride is a thing of football beauty. You can find plenty of reasons that Bill Belichick rubs you the wrong way. But you cannot argue with the absolute precision with which his team plays, how hard his team plays and how well he typically game-plans. What are we getting at here? If you dislike the New England Patriots in terms of their on-field product or their general existence, it is likely because of envy. You wish your team was that good, that cool. Are they cocky? Absolutely. But to a degree, they’ve earned it. They are not a team that, when you watch them from a pure technical standpoint, you love to hate. Belichick is the closest thing to a true lightning rod, but he’s too vanilla and awkward to take seriously. Besides, rarely does a coach define public opinion of a team.
So: What we’ve noticed in the past — and much more acutely in the past, oh, 36 hours — is that the anti-Patriots sentiment comes from a strange source: it’s not a dislike of the team, it’s a dislike of many of the folks who root for the Patriots. (Go ahead and Google “Patriots hate” and you’ll get a sense of this; that’s where we found the above image). People weren’t rooting so much for the Giants to knock off New England on Sunday as they were rooting for the chance to knock their Massachusetts-based friends down a peg the next day. Now: Maybe some of these fans bring it on themselves. Maybe they don’t know how to be good fans of great teams (this series of Deadspin e-mails explains this phenomenon very well, and the part about being down for so long making the fans insufferable now that the teams are winning strikes a chord and makes us really worried about the upcoming Peterson/Jefferson sports dynasty in the Twin Cities). Nonetheless, this seems a very peculiar phenomenon to us: Hating fans as a basis for hating a team. Then again, we laughed when we saw this the other day and wondered if we should send it to Boston friends. Still, we think it’s a pretty messed up reason for rooting against a team. Your thoughts?
Fasola-link! Obligatory Bobby Knight clip. (Plenty of naughty words, kids, so watch out).
Bonus Fasola-link! Vocab check. We could find some inappropriate uses of the word “repastinate,” that’s for sure.
33 Responses to "Tuesday (Hating the fans) edition: Wha’ Happened?"
Don’t you wish your football team was hot like the Pats???
I’m totally worried about the upcoming dynasty. In fact, I was so worried that I didn’t go into work today. I might not ever leave my house. The dynasties in Minnesota are inevitable what with McHale running basketball operations and the kick ass offense on the football end. I just hope I can get a signed “menu” of plays when it’s all said and done…
I think there is a line between cocky and absolutely obnoxious and Bill Belichick crossed that line about 2 years ago. I agree that he is a great strategist but as a person he is an absolute piece of work.
The whole running off the field thing with 1 sec. left doesn’t even bother me, it is just the fact that he shows so little respect for other coaches and teams that really gets me.
I actually don’t mind Pats fans, It’s those damn Red Sox fans that I hate. Oh wait …
On a lighter side, how about this story about recruiting. Poor kid.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writers/andy_staples/02/04/pryor.watch/index.html
I think that you could name this the “Bill Simmons Phenomenon”
That recruiting story is awesome. Reminds of the time Jim and Pam convinced Dwight that he was being recruited for the FBI.
I think the fan base is the root of all rivalries. Packer fans are the primary reason I hate the Packers. As you’ve mentioned in the past, there are legitimate things to like about the organization (the history, the success in the small market, fan ownership, blah, blah, blah). But all of this is overshadowed by the annoying arrogance of idiots in green and gold (not all Packers fans; some just ruin it for the rest.) And it got much worse after they won the Super Bowl.
http://www.startribune.com/sports/gophers/15296696.html
Seriously do Bobby Knight and Sid have some sort of secret love covenant?
My favorite part of the article:
“But there is only one person in the media that knows him as well as I do”
Let’s hope it isn’t Marv Alberts!!!
People have been hating teams because of their fans for years:
Green Bay
Yankees
Red Sox
Patriots
Duke B-ball
St. Cloud hockey
Gopher hockey (though this one is horribly misplaced. Those haters are just jealous).
I don’t see it as a bad reason to hate a team. I see it as a good reason to napalm a city and start over.
Nathan
Why would you hate St. Cloud hoc-key fans? Is it the excessive drinking? Throwing of batteries at the Gophs players? Or the fact that the Gophers no longer can walk over the Huskies?
Hating fans as a basis for hating a team.
Not messed-up at all, and perfectly valid. I offer you the fans of the Duke University Blue Devils college men’s basketball team as Exhibit A. Waterboarding’s too good for them.
some etc. comments:
a) Belichick is a true football genius (whatever that means)and like many geniuses is a geek that can’t handle a letdown like this. The Vikes lost 4 !! Superbowls and easily got quite accustomed to it.
b) the 18 - 1 tshirt will be a collector’s item, but only since, like I wrote yesterday, is there a fan out there who really wouldn’t want their team finishing at 18-1 ? After all, a record like that isn’t like kissing your sister. It’s much more like kissing someone else’s sister.
c) and lastly, AZ when you wrote ” But all of this is overshadowed by the annoying arrogance of idiots in green and gold (not all Packers fans; some just ruin it for the rest)” I feel quite confident you count me in the former group….
Jama - What makes you think it’s a secret love covenant? I believe Sid has been telling anyone who will listen that he’s close personal friends with Knight for years. And lots of people who weren’t listening (or were trying not to).
Jama, I was at the U during the Mark Parrish through Mark Hartigan years. I’ve seen enough of a shift in power during that time, but it has nothing to do with the men on the ice, it’s the d-bags in the stands that make St. Cloud State the armpit of America.
Bill Simmons has undergone a major transformation. People used to root a little extra for Boston teams because they could relate to the poor guy. Then the Mass. teams started winning and Simmons started giving off the Arrogant Evil Goateed Simmons vibe, and now has become the flash point for a country that hates the Patriots.
Seriously, I was thinking about this; I desperately wanted the Patriots to lose on Sunday, partially because of Tom Brady’s smarmy “We’re only going to score 17?” moment, but mostly because “Patriots fans are annoying.” And then it struck me: I don’t know any Patriots fans, and I read the writings of only one.
RE: SCSU. For the record, we prefer “endearingly obnoxious state-school drunks.”
I agree that it’s “envy” of a well oiled machine like the Pats that can cause some fans of teams that drastically need the oil to dislike them. But there is a little more to that idea up here in “Pardon Me” land. Meaning, if someone acts arrogant (and the Pats fans do (but not the Packer fans ..no, no, no), people up here, probably because of their Scando heritage, get all arrogant about someone else’s superior than thou attitude whether that attitude be from the Patriots or the manager at Menard’s.
So is our home grown arrogance towards someone else’s arrogance any different ? I found that question posed in the Bible, so don’t make light of it…the T-ball coach’s bible that is..
Thanks Stu, you are much more elegant with your words than I am. You could argue that most of the “d-bag fans” are imported students from the Metro but I’ll try to avoid that route.
AZGopherGirl should win a blog Pulitzer for the paragraph on hating the Packers because of there fans. I couldn’t agree more. Fans of any Boston team are also annoying, I was in the service with someone from Boston and he was just as annoying. I think they love to hear the sound of there own accent.
Or was it Percoset?
I would have to say that one of the reasons I am a closet (way back in the closet) Yankee fan is because of there fans. They turned being obnoxious into an art form.
Gotta remember, one and all, that it might be easy to hate the Viking fans (actually it is but you can’t really see them through those ridiculous Hansel and Gretel paint jobs), but it would be easier to hate them if they..actually…won !
So a team and it’s fans can’t gloat or be arrogant about anything, I feel, if they are always also rans, smelling the fumes of the winners. Yet, I don’t really hate Vike fans, but I do feel very sorry for them. Cris Carter, Moss, Culpepper, Smith..and what did you do with these guys and more top notch players ? No, people hate winners, not losers. Period. Sorry to have you smell the glove….
What about teams that have a good fan base?
I suppose that it’s possible that a team with a losing record, a team with a long time losing record, particularly a team that has always stumbled at Heavens Gate, ala Monica choking on the Big One, could still be arrogant about their play and their fans could still be as rabid as if they had a good team.
I say that since Margaret Mead, anthropologist, once noted that in a colony of Lepers she once visited that the inhabitants compared the size of their lesions and those with the largest gained a manner of respect. In that respect, I can understand Viking fans being proud of their team since, with their team oozing at the pores as much or more than most teams in the league, maybe these fans have the right to fire their cannons indoors (why ?), and get righteously arrogant about the arrogance of others. For me, personally, I think it helps to have a winning program in order to justify copping an an attitude about anyone else.
P3, I was trying to think of something gracious to say in response to your assumption that I’d lump you among the annoyingly arrogant idiots in green and gold. Your last post speaks for itself. Thanks for saving me the time and effort!
I don’t know any hardcore New England fans personally, but if I did, I’m sure I wouldn’t like their act very much. Not because of their team, but because they are hardcore.
Anyone who just goes all out — the jersey + hat + jacket combo, paint colors, flags on their cars, etc. — is inherently annoying. So you like the [insert team here] … good for you! Now shut up already.
I commented on Sunday that the Patriots are “the worst team in the history of professional football,” but obviously I was exaggerating to make a point. They’re really quite good. I wanted them to win, not just because I like to see winners win, but also because I really wanted Mercury Morris to shut his fat, old yapper.
I like the Patriots for the same reasons I like Tiger Woods. Or Roger Federer. Or Adriana Lima. They’re the best, they know they’re the best, and they welcome anyone to challenge their dominance. In this case, the challenge was met. Bully for them.
Even Tiger and Roger lose, sometimes.
Ms. Lima, on the other hand, is no loser.
Az, let me just say this and it is gracious. I agree “envy” is involved when a fan dislikes a team like the Yankees or Pats, but consider this closer to home example. Closer to home up here, not to AZ.
Looking for a moment at how fans envy, go over only these 3 variables…a) comparable stadiums (would a team and it’s fans like to play at Lambeau or the Dome ?
b) a knowledgeable fan base ..S.I. consistently labels Pack fans as some of the most football savvy in the league
c) and three, of course, which is the better team.. The Packers lined up position by position and as a team as a whole compared to the Vikings.
I lay that out since I’m sure you know envy and jeaalousy are ugly but still kissing cousins. So, I ask you and anyone else reading this “Do you feel the Packers and their fans would be in ANY way jealous of the Vikings i.e. want to play in their Muffin for example. Also, if Viking fans were honest, would they not acknowledge that their animosity toward the Packers may well have something to do with the Packer’s supposed “arrogance” but also has much to do with the long term festering “envy” of this cross state’s team success. Jealousy is an ugly thing, and I really can’t believe the Packer’s covet anything at all here in MN. However, the reverse can’t be true, and that’s the problem. So, if you want to stop hating the Pack or Yanks or other “arrogant” teams, the answer is simple…win or just choose to stay jealous. Your choice.
What differentiates Tiger or Roger from the Patriots? Tiger and Roger win with grace. With respect for an opponent.
It’s not like they’ve never been cocky – and when it’s the spirit of competition that leads to that cockiness, it’s right, and it’s to be expected. But the cockiness the Patriots displayed this year seemed to be from a darker place. It wasn’t to compete, it was to maim. To embarrass. Who wants to cheer for that?
Did the 85 Bears win with grace? Hay-ell, no. They were all up in our faces about how good they were, about how they were going to win it all, blah, blah, blah. But that’s a team that seems to be universally loved.
Look — Belichick is a [redacted]. No doubt about it. He’s a bad loser, but then again maybe that’s what makes him great.
But that doesn’t mean the team as a whole is hate-able and graceless. I thought both Brady and Moss’ post-game comments were entirely graceful.
I don’t know if this is a football saying but I heard it from a football coach on the bus after a big loss.
He said “If you want to put something behind you, make up something twice as big in front of you”
And that’s the Viking’s (fans) problem. Rather than put all that energy into the future (new coach, qb..whatever that imagined plan may be), these fans live in the past.
So, translating that coaches words, if you want to escape all this nonsense about some other team’s “arrogance” (who cares, anyway) or get over being envious/jealous of another team’s success, win YOURSELF, win and keep winning and you won’t notice anything else, any other team. Now, that’s not happening up here. Instead, we pi.s and moan about everything that makes no difference anyway.
StraightCashHomey is exactly right. The Pats, Red Sox, Yankees, Dookies, Cowboys and their collective fans are the didactic opposites of Federer and Woods and their fans. One might even say that the fans learn from actions and words of those whom they follow.
Sassbottom – you’re dead on about the ‘85 Bears. But, didn’t they at least win with a sense of self-deprecation (e.g. the Super Bowl Shuffle)? They were shameless and wore their cockiness on their sleeves, which as time passed made it almost endearing. The Pats, on the other hand, were businesslike – coldblooded killers. They didn’t show the emotion that the Bears did, and that doesn’t give the fans a role. Unlike the Bears, they put themselves above the game.
A team takes on a persona..esp a winning team on a roll. Whether it’s a bunch of cheap gangsters, an endearing pack of easy going playmakers or a bunch of “cold blooded killers” is it our business how they go about winning ? Is it important that we like them ? Those are questions asked by fans of losing teams. Once those losing teams begin to win their fans won’t care either how they are perceived
