Tuesday (Clearing the air) edition: Wha’ Happened?
Posted on July 22nd, 2008 – 9:22 AMBy Michael Rand
Patrick Reusse was right on the money this morning with his Vikings stadium column, and we’ll tell you why (hint: it’s not just because we work with him): football is not baseball. We do not know a single person who aspires to attend a football game because of a particular stadium. Unlike baseball, which has countless road trips planned and mystiques embellished based on ivy, monsters and new amenities, football fields are a means to an end. We frankly wouldn’t care if the Vikings played in a sparkling new stadium, a scaled down but still nice stadium or an upgraded Metrodome (because for as bad as the Dome is for baseball, it’s at least adequate for football). We’re just not sure how much fancy bells and whistles add to a gameday experience in a sport with 10 home dates. The action is in the parking lot and (primarily) on the field — and we’d guess the vast majority of football fans feel the same way.
*We just drove from Minneapolis to St. Paul (near Como Park), then to the airport, then back home. We are now convinced there is not one part of the interior metro area that is not under some sort of crippling road construction. Living near 35W and 46th street (overpass? Demolished.) and also near Lyndale (44th-50th are closed! Whee!) made us suspicious of the truth we just spoke of. It was just so nice to confirm it. Have you been enjoying getting around this summer as much as we have?
*Fasola-link! Stubble is where it’s at.
48 Responses to "Tuesday (Clearing the air) edition: Wha’ Happened?"
Living near 35W and 46th street (overpass? Demolished.) and also near Lyndale (44th-50th are closed! Whee!)
My friend, attorney and brutal fixer lives in that general vicinity, too, and trying to get there from St. Cloud last month was, how you say? Ah, yes: impossible.
What’s worse, trying to get into the interior metro during rush hour or trying to get out of the metro on a Friday afternoon?
Heading up to St. Cloud on a Friday after work is a 3 hour experiment on how to avoid road rage. I generally fail.
Going south on 35W on the way home from work isn’t too bad. I’m assuming that will change in Mid-September.
However, we do not have the 76th street bridge over 35W near my house, which is unfortunate. However, apparently, trucks had been running into it for years, so replacing it and making it regulation height were probably good ideas on the whole.
This is a rather ignorant column. NFL fans take road trips all the time. You are REALLY going to try to sell us that road tripping to places like Soldier/Lambeau Field, Arrowhead, etc is somehow not as meaningful as going to a freaking baseball game? Baseball is fun, but it was replaced by the NFL long ago, and that includes most of the stadiums.
Do you realize that Yankee Stadium being demolished soon? I guess the new Yankee stadium is just a means to an end.
Patrick Reusse was right on the money this morning
Eagerly awaiting the next sign of the Apocalypse…
/Rant ahead
re: Stadium
As usual I will disagree with you Rand. The reason the Vikes want a new stadium is to increase revenue. You will not increase revenue by building a smaller stadium. Also, as a resident of Hennepin County, if you are going to use my tax dollars, I know I won’t contribute that much, I would like to see some return. Without a roof there is no chance of ever getting a SuperBowl or Final Four in Minneapolis. Those are the events that bring in large amounts of other people’s cash. Without a roof the stadium would only get used for football and maybe soccer and lacrosse. With a roof couldn’t it be used for much more?
I agree that $1 billion seems a little excessive but building on the cheap doesn’t make a whole lot of sense either.
Plus if the NFL has no salary cap in the near future, yes it’s possible, you better hope you cheer for a team that is bringing in lots of revenue or an owner that won’t mind paying out of pocket for players. A better stadium generally means more revenue which leads to more spending. Just a thought.
/Rant over
“…experts in human evolution say that that facial hair may be a signal of aggression because it boosts the apparent size of the lower jaw, emphasising the teeth as weapons.”
Watch yourself. I got a whole mouth of these bad boys and they’re looking for action.
VikingFan, a road trip for a football game isn’t as meaningful. It’s not. It is usually over the course of 2-3 days and only to one different city. A baseball road trip is usually, if done correctly, over a span of 7-10 days and would cover 5-6 different cities.
Would you ever go to a game between the Dolphins and Falcons in Atlanta just because you thought the Georgia Dome was a great venue?
I don’t feel that many people would, but they would go to an Indians v. Mariners game because Safeco is a wonderful baseball park.
Jama, you make good point with the revenue aspect. However, I would like to see our fine city do more than bank on large sporting events once every 10-15 years to draw in tourist revenue.
“…experts in human evolution say that that facial hair may be a signal of aggression because it boosts the apparent size of the lower jaw, emphasising the teeth as weapons.”
Yep, that’s why I only shave once a week. Not because I’m lazy.
MC
They could alternate hosting the Republican and Democratic natioanl convention every 4 years!
I took the tour of Safeco last week and it is a very nice stadium, I hope the Twins stadium is close to as nice as that. And of course it has a retractable roof, as does Qwest Field next to it.
I don’t know that I agree with Michael’s “destination” take, but I do know that I agree with Reusse’s “paying $225 million to play the Prep Bowl indoors” take. It’s the one big-time sport where a roof is absolutely unnecessary. Spoon that, and I think something might get done.
Dave
When did you start shaving once a week? I didn’t know Peach Fuzz grew that fast. Doesn’t it take you a couple of weeks to get a 5 o’clock shadow?
Baseball is just ingrained in American culture in a completely different way, and outdoor baseball parks mean something that NFL stadiums can’t. Baseball is summer, and baseball is America… Football doesn’t have that.
At the same time, the picture of that stadium makes me want it, and I think “what’s another three cents on a $20 purchase?”
I haven’t shaved since 1990.
fasola… You must be packing some serious weapons.
How long until this gets front-paged?
Help! Help! Governor Potholes a’Pawlenty has taken Kingfield and Tangletown hostage! All escape and resupply routes are down! We are running short on supplies and Simon Delivers is gone!
(Rand - I do know a top-secret route to Kowalski’s. Will send map by carrier pigeon. Please inform the pug.)
Baseball hasn’t been America for 20 years. It was surpassed by football as ‘America’s game’ long ago.
Oh, it’s been front-paged alright.
SCH
It’s already on the front page. I think we just got lucky today and all the AV crowd is heading to Mankato for the weekend.
(Rand - I do know a top-secret route to Kowalski’s. Will send map by carrier pigeon. Please inform the pug.)
+1 ramon
Don’t tell the RBBH though, she’s a spy.
Who is this Stu character?
It is far easier, with greater opportunity to go see a baseball game on the road then it is to see a football game on the road. For one, baseball is primarily in the summer when it is usually easier to get time away. Plus, there are more baseball games to get to. I sat next to a guy at the dome from DC that was on a business trip. He said when he travels; during the evening he makes his way to the hometown ball game. (That’s a nice gig.) You can’t do that with a football game unless it happens to be on a Monday night, or now Thursday’s after Thanksgiving, or you will be in London or Canada.
As for the construction… it’s not just limited to the major highways cities. In Apple Valley this morning I tried to go to a gym located on a road where there are business parks and a gas station and the only way in or out was to go over the freshly paved asphalt. The poor guy on the steamroller kept going back and forth over the intersections smoothing out the tire tracks.
Not to mention they were scheduled to tear up our curb the day we moved in to our new house. Not surprisingly that got delayed though. (Phew!)
VikingFan: While I agree that football trips can be fine destinations, I don’t think it’s necessarily the stadiums that makes them so. In fact, I would say Lambeau might be the only NFL stadium that I would like to see purely from a “stadium” standpoint. Otherwise, it’s all about games and atmosphere — not the structure. Baseball is different. You want to see the dimensions. You want to sample ballpark food. You want to see the little features that set them apart.
Jama — you are correct about revenue potential being greater. I wasn’t arguing that point, just the visceral feeling point.
The Viking should just grab box cutters and cut the roof off the dome. It will be just like brand new.
Revised Comment:
I live in SW MPLS and my girlfriend lives in StP. Getting back and forth is an adventure, to say the least — especially for her, given her less-than-stellar route-finding skills. I’ve had to create several new maps for her over the past year.
Original Comment:
YYYAAAAAAARRRRRRGGGGGGHHHHHHH!
One reason you don’t see football stadiums as destinations is because they are all very similar. Unless you are in Canada or an Arena stadium the football fields are all 100 yards long with 10 yard end zones. For some reason MLB let’s baseball teams decide what the dimensions of baseball fields should be. I have never really understood this practice. Shouldn’t all games be played on the same level? Stadiums should not effect stats in sports and that is what happens in baseball.
On a side note some stadiums other than Lambeau that I would like to see:
Qwest Field- I couldn’t tour because someone named Michelle Obama is important.
University of Phoenix Stadium
The new Cowboys stadium when complete
Arrowhead
The Horseshoe
The Big House
Jama: Each team in MLB is allowed to have there own dimensions because each ballpark is designed for a different location. When MLB teams first started building ballparks in the early 20th century they were built within the exisiting city street system and each city block is different. This meant each ballpark needed to be designed differently to fit into those blocks. And I am assuming since baseball is so concerned with history and tradition that MLB is not willing to change that.
I hate to be critical, but Qwest has no retractable roof. Minnesota doesn’t “need” a roof. Seattle does. If Safeco didn’t, most home games from April until June would involve some sort of rain delay.
On a combative sidenote (it’s what I do), a list of baseball stadiums that I would visit:
Camden
Fenway
Yankee Stadium, old and new
Jacobs Field
Kaufmann
Wrigley
Busch
PNC Park
Petco
AT&T Park
Angel Stadium
Dodger Stadium
Safeco
Ballpark at Arlington
Bank One Ballpark
VikingFan is the recent football fans scare the bejeezus out of me. They act as if the NFL is a family member.
Since moving to California three years ago I have made it my goal to make it to all 5 baseball parks within the state and to the BOB in Pheonix. I still need to make to Oakland before the A’s move to there new stadium and the BOB. I have never once thought about going to a football game, unless of course the Vikings were playing out here.
Petco and AT&T Park are far nicer parks than the other ballparks in California. Dodger Stadium might be the fourth oldest MLB stadium but it lacks character when compared to Wrigley Field.
MC:
Camden is nice, but the “game experience” is lacking. They rely too heavily on their HD scoreboard and don’t interact with the fans at all. All of the dumb promotions between innings are what I love about Twins games. I hope they keep the Hormel Row of Fame (and its song), various seat related giveaways, various trivia giveaways, and, if possible, DodgeBall at the new stadium.
I hope the Twins don’t get lazy like the Orioles, just because they have a new HD scoreboard…
MC
You’re right, Qwest doesn’t have a roof. I was wrong, again!
Speaking of Seattle Stadiums. After visiting I can understand why the Sonics left Seattle. Key Arena is an albatross of an Arena. It looks like HS basketball would be too good for that place.
@Brandon: “reason,” not “recent.” Idiot.
After the Yankees move, isn’t the Dome going to be the 4th oldest stadium in MLB behind Fenway, Wrigley, and Dodger stadium next year?
A note to MC - beloved BOB is now Chase Field (almost as pretty sounding as AT&T Park, right?)
Brandon:
Don’t listen to Brandon. Who does he think he is, the Comment Police?
JAMA: Angel Stadium, McAfee Coliseum, and Kauffman Stadium are older than the Dome also.
I agree that baseball is more about where they play. It’s like golf courses, sure the game is the same but the layout is different enough to provide a unique challenge. I want to go to Fenway to see Torii Hunter bust his ankle in the corners, or Delmon Young make a bonehead move with a ball off the monster. I can watch Adrian Peterson rush for 300 yards at a high school field, it still would be just as amazing.
Merx
I should have mentioned stadiums that haven’t had renovations in my previous comment. All those stadiums have had face lifts equal to Joan Rivers.
Somebody needs to welcome the Cardinals organization to the 21st century. I think the Vikes have done this for at least 5 years haven’t they?
Dave- I will be right next to you protesting if they eliminate the Hormel Row of Fame. One of my favorite parts of going to a Twins game is singing the song at the top of my lungs and watching the reaction of the neighboring fans.
Trust me that is his favorite part.
I’m the same way. Paul MN and I sing it at the top of our lungs. We’ve been complimented on it from time to time.
As a former Twin Cities resident and lifelong Viking fan, I’ve always considered the idea of the Vikings moving away from Minnesota to be blasphemous. But if you people don’t wake up and appreciate what you have and do what it takes to be competitive in the NFL, then so be it. Welcome to Los Angeles, Vikings!
Dave MN
I agree, if they took away the promotions it wouldn’t be as fun. I think that is what makes a baseball game as fun as it is. I love the hot dog song as well. They can’t get rid of it. If they did, the terrorists have won.
JAMA
Key Arena is a complete dump. I’ve heard some Seattlites argue that the Sonics didn’t need a new stadium. Absolutely crazy.
Brandon
Don’t hate.
The best solution to stadium funding is to use the millions of dollars a year that is collected from pro athletes from other teams by the state. Make Brian Urlacher and his new contract pay for a new Vikings stadium.
Also as far as a cheap stadium is concerned if you are going to do something you should do it right. Don’t just take the easy way out.
Rand, you said “Otherwise, it’s all about games and atmosphere — not the structure. ”
There is no atmosphere in a terrible stadium like the dome. That much is true for baseball and football. Your posts make it seem like football can have a great atmosphere in a bad stadium. Occasionally that is possible but more often than not it sucks just like being in the dome for a Twins game sucks.
The Vikes need a GOOD stadium this time around. If they would have done it right the first time we wouldn’t be having this conversation.
Merx - wasn’t Kaufman renovated in the late 80’s? We could’ve done the same thing to the old Met they did to Kaufman - but nooo… we’re Minnesotans. When it gets old we destroy it. Memorial too.
The Dome is just a building. The key issue is the land it sits on. Why did it take this long to figure out you could save tons of money tearing the building down and rebuild on the land?
