Snow fight: Why did a rush hour go awry?
Posted on February 7th, 2007 – 6:05 AMBy Roadguy
Make no mistake — Roadguy loves the Twin Cities and is usually ready to proclaim it loudly and proudly. But yesterday … well, yesterday, Roadguy was a little embarrassed: a two-inch snowfall brought the morning rush hour to its knees and spawned nearly 300 crashes. What is this, Atlanta?
The epicenter was on I-35 south of Lakeville, where dozens of cars piled up. In St. Paul, some legislators blamed the mess on a lack of transportation funding. But MnDOT said that resources were not the problem — drivers were.
Media coverage was extensive and occasionally curious. KSTP.com has a video clip that says I-35 itself contributed to the problem because it contains … a hill. Meanwhile, this story from KARE11.com includes a State Patrol investigator who exonerates the highway: “The road doesn’t cause the crash.”
(The Strib’s main story is here, with more commuter comments here. WCCO-TV’s is here, and KMSP’s is here.)
So what’s the answer? Could a higher gas tax improve winter driving? Shall every freeway hill be made low? Are we doomed to Darwinian demolition derbies every time it’s zero and snowing? Share your thoughts, and any stories from your commute, below.
(Roadguy note: If you posted a comment earlier in the day and it didn’t appear below, it should be there now. The spam filters were accidentally being hypervigilant. Sorry about that.)
113 Responses to "Snow fight: Why did a rush hour go awry?"
We are losing our edge in Minnesota. Maybe it’s our cell phones and navigation systems that are making us weak Northerners.
So what’s the answer? Where to start… First, as hard as we try, we cannot control nature. Many times it gets the best of us. We need to accept this and modify our behavior and expectations.
After that, next on the list of problems is drivers and their idiotic tendencies–too fast, too slow, tailgating, “if I can accelerate quickly with four wheel drive, I’ll have no problems stopping just as quickly,” lack of anticipation of what’s ahead, very short term memories (we go through this every bleeping year or multiple times a season if the snowfall isn’t regular), etc., etc., etc.
What’s the answer? I don’t know. All the educating in the world probably won’t change much. Mass transportation would get vehicles and their drivers off the roads, with light rail being the safest mode under such conditions. Other than that…???
the answer? two words. SLOW DOWN.
that’s really all it takes.
I just got back from spending two weeks in Antigua. Me thinks the residents down there could handle driving in the snow at least as well as most Minnesota residents. One thing a lot of people don’t have is patience in inclimate weather.
I agree with MNDOT - this mess was caused by people driving too fast, too close the the car in front of them, and not adjusting their driving to conditions.
It also may help to shut your darn cell phone off!
Maybe State Sen. Steve Murphy could use some of his hot air to clear the roads. There is NOTHING that MNDOT could have done yesterday except to close the highways completely to plow them without interference from traffic.
This idiot obviously wants to pass his pet gas tax and will use anything to advance his cause.
People simply don’t know how to drive! And somehow they don’t know what happens to any object on a frozen surface. Do they even teach about ‘black ice’ in driver’s training these days or in the Welcome To Minnesota manual for new residents?
I am a fast driver in normal circumstances (but courteous and use all required road signals). But when it is inclimate weather, even close to freeZing and ice on the road, I am extremely cautious. You just cannot drive at normal speeds when the road is an ice-rink! Nor can you tail-gate, or take curves as normal.
Really, people are idiots!
People are stupid. End of story.
Really. They looked at the snow and thought “two inches? No problem!!” and proceeded to drive like it was mid-July. Nevermind that it was below zero, so the ice-melt stuff doesn’t work and our exhaust is freezing on the roads.
The highways were better on the way home, but some of the side streets were still very dangerous. I drove on a short streach of American Blvd between Green Valley Dr and Bush Lake Rd at 4:30pm. That was a scary few blocks - I couldn’t take any of the curves without a struggle to keep the car going in the desired direction. (And I was only driving 15-20 mph!!)
Blaming the hill on I-35, huh? I grew up in Duluth where we have REAL hills. I’d love to try that excuse up there sometime…
I don’t understand it, either; it has been snowing in MN long before humans existed, but you would think that every snowfall was the very first snowfall.
People need to slow down and leave more space. It is that simple, but only in theory, I guess.
Yesterday, on a popular afternoon radio show, one of the hostesses said, and I kid you not: “People drive like pansies in the snow. I just plow through it and I have never had a problem. I am a good driver.” I couldn’t help but to feel sick after hearing that.
Slow down and stay back. It has worked for me–never had a problem in 14 years. Since I can’t control what other people do, I just do the best I can do and expect everyone to slide into me at any moment.
I loved your comment about “What is this, Atlanta?” It is so true. I lived there for three years and the traffic was horrible. Only to triple in horror at three drops of rain. And the few times it snowed, only the Yankees were on the road, everyone else was in the ditch.
The fact of the matter is that if it is snowing moderately hard, like it was yesterday, there is simply no way to plow the roads while rush hour traffic is on them — the same sort of thing goes on in Buffalo during rush hour when lake effect snow squalls roll in; the highways slow to a crawl.
What I find more amusing is the perception that after every snow fall, no matter how cold or how much snow there is, the roads should be magically clear within a matter of hours; as someone who grew up in the lake effect snow belt in NY, I think MnDOT does a pretty good job on the roads and highways around here, given the conditions they have to deal with. I would hate to see the wailing that would go on if we had a 2+ foot snowfall.
Inadequate following distance was probably the single biggest contributor. Some people didn’t seem to realize that you need to leave more distance between cars when the conditions are like that, because it takes longer to stop.
On 394, I saw cars cutting in front of other cars with maybe 2-3 car lengths of room. Maybe that could work on dry pavement, but with conditions like that it would set off a chain reaction of everyone hitting their brakes and hoping the ABS would help them stop in time.
I tend to agree that beyond heated freeways, there may not be much that can help when we have several inches of snow early on a sub-zero morning.
One of the things we’ve seen over the decades is a steady growth in the number of vehicles moved per lane per hour, beyond what traffic engineers ever thought possible. This is simply because drivers are more and more comfortable tailgating. But tailgating compromises any safety margin and we wind up with yesterday morning’s mess.
I’m not entirely sure that going any slower yesterday would have helped anything. I think people in general were going as slow as was humanly possible (at least on my 20 mile stretch of 94 through St. Paul and Minneapolis). Increasing following distances on that stretch would have just backed traffic up to Madison instead of Tomah.
Sure, people are stupid, and we all like to think that everyone except me is a bad driver. But in all honesty, I think people just failed to give themselves enough time to get where they were going yesterday. I think there were thousands of people like me who got up, swore at the sky, skipped my morning routine to get out the door earlier and still got stuck in traffic for almost two hours. Even though I left early, I knew I was going to be late when I left.
I think it was just a bad combination of temperatures that were too cold for salt to work, just enough sticky snow at the wrong time of the day, and way too many cars on the road at the exact same time.
Maybe slowing down on 35 where the big accident took place would have helped. But all the fender benders and smaller accidents on the nearly stopped roadways (like my section of 94) were likely due more to frustration than to slippery roads. People got ticked that they had to sit in traffic for 2 hours and got frustrated and stopped paying attention. Or they realized they were going to miss that important morning meeting and started making phone calls and stopped paying attention.
I didn’t think the roads were all that bad, it was just too many frustrated drivers on roads that weren’t ideal.
When it starts snowing at 5 or 6 am on a weekday morning where the temp. is extremely cold, there isn’t much that MNDOT can do to clean the roads down to bare pavement before the mass of commuters hits the road.
Having said that, it is embarrassing to live in a Northern city (and I’ve been here 17 years), where people cannot handle driving in even a small snowfall. 240 accidents in the metro yesterday morning?? Unbelievable. How to avoid traffic? You can’t. Leave earlier? The main freeways are jammed by 6 am, especially on bad weather days. Some of us can’t leave earlier; we have kids to drop off at school or day care. Leave later and work later? Yesterday at 10 am the roads were still backed up. My solution: yesterday and today I took surface streets almost the entire length of my commute from the east ‘burbs to NE Mpls. Both days the drive has taken me longer than normal, but I’m always moving, and drivers are more patient, knowing they have to stop often for traffic lights or stop signs. Nothing causes road rage more than sitting in a near standstill on a freeway that you are used to cruising at 60 mph or higher.
True, Mike, but all it takes is that one idiot who’s driving way too fast and/or rapidly switching lanes to cause a huge pile-up. Even with “adequate” stopping distance, the icy conditions may not have allowed you to stop if you had to quickly hit the brakes.
I agree that the minor stuff is probably due to distractions, as Mike mentioned.
Far and away the worst drivers I see day in and out, are a fair number of people with larger trucks and SUVs that think the size of their vehicle entitles them the right of way over everyone else in all situations and everyone else better stay out of their way. They travel too fast and follow too close. They zig and ZAG between lanes and cut people off and pay zero attention to the posted speed limit.
I am sorry. People are sitting here saying. Drive slower, or leave earlier. The problem does NOT only lie when it snows. When its raining outside, I SIT parked on hwy 100, WHY???? god only knows. When its snows, I SIT on Hwy 100, WHY, God only knows.. But I do know this. When there is an accident, it takes me more than two hours to drive home, WHY… Because stupid people have to stare at the accident, creating more accidents. The fact of the matter is, people are idiots and NOBODY can drive in Minnesota. Left lane drivers!
Speed, speed, speed. That is why there were so many traffic problems yesterday. If people would just to slow down when it rains or snows then there would be a lot less problems in the grand scheme of things. Just my two cents worth.
I second the push for leaving yourself greater stopping distance. Yesterday, I witnessed a semi following a car in the middle lane with about a length of 2 cars in front of him. The car in front if him slowed to merge into the right lane and because the semi didn’t leave himself enough space, decided to swerve into my lane to avoid that car. I honked, moved over, and avoided hitting him but the little car behind me wasn’t so lucky. It spun out IN FRONT OF THE SEMI and got broad-sided by the semi. Ugh. When will people (and this rant is proportional to the weight/size of your vehicle) learn to recognize their power and drive smarter…with more space? My second push is for everyone to invest in snow tires. They have saved my little car from many a spin-out.
I think Mike’s got it right that people don’t pay close enough attention. Lots of people have gotten in the habit of driving as fast as they can until they come upon a car in their lane going slower. They they switch to another lane and repeat the process. This is annoying in good weather, but deadly behavior in bad weather, when the disparities between the fastest and slowest drivers are magnified.
I was making fun of all the people stuck in traffic for just a little bit of snow yesterday when I woke up and saw Highway 169 from my window.
That stopped as soon as I took 494 instead. While there were quite a few stupid people out there, I was going along nice and slow at about 25 miles per hour when I tapped my brakes to slow down a little and commenced to slide nearly sideways before I got it under control again.
Now, granted, I didn’t crash and was smart enough to know how to get out of the slide, but it didn’t take much yesterday to send a car spinning, even at slower speeds. So I have to question a little bit how the plows/salters were doing.
Did anybody care to ask if the salt they put on the roadways just can’t melt snow when it is so cold? From personal experience, if you don’t get the snow melting, it just turns into ice. That is the problem with Atlanta, they don’t have salt, so a small dusting turns to ice. However, a normal MN snowfall usually is near temperatures in the mid 20s in which the salt works quite well.
There is no such thing as a space cushion in the metro. Typically I commute on a motorcycle and if I try and leave an adequate space cushion - some nincompoop pulls in there as though it were their destiny. Two things are lacking in area drivers: Patience and Common Sense.
I have lived here all my life. Up until 5 or so years ago there was not the traffic levels you see today.
Summer, Winter, rain or shine, the Metro roads just have not expanded quick enough to accomodate current levels.
Population growth is inevitable and, unfortunately, the pile ups are too.
Todd B
There are just too many cars for our roads. As quickly as we expand lanes (which isn’t that quick anyway), there are more drivers taking up that space. As painful & expensive as it is, the only real long-term answer is mass transpiration that doesn’t use the freeways the way the current bus system does. Light rail is probably the most logical but too many people focus on whether or not it pays for itself. Quite frankly it pays for itself some, which is more than a freeway does. The bottom line is that we need a well thought out combo package of roads & mass transit.
It seems that there are two kinds of drivers in Minnesota when it slows: those who believe that they don’t have to slow down at all, and those that believe that they have to drive at 10 MPH everywhere. Neither of these solutions are the right one.
It’s snow, people. It’s not magical, it’s physics. Slippery roads means that it takes more time to change velocity: to speed up, slow down, or turn. That’s it. That means you drive slower, and you prepare to slow down or turn well in advance of any intersections where you might have to do these things (that means covering the brakes and letting off the gas as you approach a stop light, even if it is green, because it might change).
Honestly, I wonder where most people win their drivers licenses.
I had a minor accident ysterday, and there really wasn’t anything I could have done about it other than not drive. I was turning left onto 34th off of 5/494 in Bloomington, hoping to avoid problems on 494. I was third in line when the light changed to green. Halfway through the turn, I lost traction. Couldn’t stop, couldn’t turn, couldn’t do anything other than say, well, I guess I’m going to hit that curb. I wasn’t going faster than was appropriate - I couldn’t have been going more than 5-7 mph, and certainly was going slower than the person in front of me. Fortunately, it was a spot where there was no chance to hit or hurt anybody.
Really, I think the bottom line is the bottom line. There is an expectation that you get to work and be productive even when that is the last thing you should be doing. This kind of mess could be easily avoided if employers were more willing to call off work on days when the commute is hazardous. But that costs money, so they won’t do it.
People aren’t following the basics:
-Clear your car completely before you start, so other people don’t get chunks from your roof in their faces.
-Newer tires with decent tread. Yes it costs money. Yes, your wages are flat. Suck it up and buy them.
-Slow down.
-*Don’t Stop*. Remember Newton’s law of inertia.
…and finally, remind your elected officials that you want LOTS of salt and snow plows, instead of publicly-funded sports stadiums. Per capita & square-mile of road, you bet your ass we have less snow-removal services than ever, and it’s a major contributer.
Slow down.
Your 4-wheel drive won’t save you.
I don’t care how awesome your pickup/SUV is.
Just slow down.
I think that people need to use SNOW tires on their vehicles. We don’t live in Florida anymore, Toto. Summer tires (aka all season tires) don’t perform well enough when it is cold and slick. IMHO
heated freeways! i love that idea.
and heather, i grew up in duluth, too. i loved the camaraderie/cooperation there when it snowed. people knew that if you were toiling up one of those steep hills, you couldn’t stop or you’d never get going again. and so you were free to ignore the stop sign and people on the flat streets would stop for you and let you pass.
you need that momentum on those slick hills.
not a lot of camaraderie and cooperation down here yesterday morning. not on my commute, anyway. there’s a certain minivan, weaving in and out of traffic and speeding up behind cars going 10 mph slower, who really got my goat….
Brakes are the worst thing to use in this weather. Applying breaks means sliding: sliding to (or through) a stop, sliding into ditches, sliding into other cars. Judicious speeding up and slowing down, with plenty of room on the road to accomplish these maneuvers, is what will get us safely from one place to another. Relying on your brakes will get you hurt or killed.
en Florida I ain’t never seen nuthin like what I seen here. You Menisotans are flat out crazy drivers hoo like the drama it brings. Floridans now how to driv. Its time yall did two!
… there’s nothing new to this situation. I’ve lived here all of my life and it’s always the same with the first snowfall and with subsequent snowfalls where there has been a large time gap between snowfalls: people drive too fast and leave too little room for error. If we had another snow like this on Thursday, we’d see maybe 50 or so accidents.
Now, the fact that the blogmeister seems confused or amused that a hill could create accidents shows a frightening lack of knowledge. Having driven EB 494 from Eden Prairie, the road descends gradually from 5 to 169, then rises sharply and veers left. Traffic would always slow under the bridge, but you couldn’t see it until you were on top of it because brake lights were hidden by the cars in front of you. Having driven it often enough, I knew that traffic was going to slow. But at least twice a week, there would be someone who didn’t and the result was a fender bender or worse. Of course, that would eventually cause the gawker slowdown fender bender on WB 494. So, yes, there are places on the highways out there where the way the road is designed has a direct bearing on the number of accidents.
Growing up in Chicago, whenever weather forcasters predicted freezing rain or snow, the city/county/state snowplows were out the night before putting down salt on most major interstates and highways. Even in below freezing temperatures this makes a huge difference.
For some reason, here in MN, the plows don’t go out until morning rush hour, at least as far as I can tell.
And, as for the way people here in MN drive, snow or not… you’d think everyone gets their drivers licenses from gumball machines…
I can’t figure out why people are in a hurry in the morning, most of them are going to work. Now if it was in the evening and they are heading out on a hot date or going to a party, I might forgive them for driving like an idiot
What is the problem? Stupid drivers! They drive too fast for the road conditions, they tail gate, they cut people off, etc.
This morning, I was on Hwy 5 on the bridge going over Hwy 312. People on the bridge were spinning out. I had plenty of room in my lane, but even so, I started to slow down. Unfortunately, the people in the left lane didn’t want to slow down for the person spinning out in their lane so they cut me off. When they cut me off, they started sliding. I thought for sure I was going to at least bump the guy cut in front of me but I managed to stop just a few measly inches for the other car. Then I it looked like somebody was going to tag me from behind.
We no more cleared ourselves of that little jam when a guy in a small pickup decided to tromp on the gas and started spinning across both lanes of traffic.
People have to learn to slow down, leave plenty of room between themselves and others, don’t cut other people off, start up and stop in a slower manner.
Have a confidential talk to the plow drivers in big cities that border the interstate and have that same confidential talk to the snow plow employees (not supervisors) of the DOT. You’ll get your answer as to why suddenly after Plawlenty and his side kick Molnau took over that the roads are in the worse driving condition in Minnesota history. You’re reporters, do your jobs and wear out some shoe leather for once. Quit playing the he said she said game from the press releases and the political spin. Go get the darn story.
The answer is that Minnesotans are not from Minnesota anymore. There are too many people on the road that either have never had to deal with really bad weather, or they never received the proper drivers ed needed for these conditions.
I will also throw out there, that I grew up here and moved around the country and the world, then came back and I have never seen worse drivers then those on the road here, even in good conditions. I would take the drivers in Beijing over Minneapolis. It is a relief driving in Manhattan compared to the Twin Cities. Perhaps it is our license requirements that need to be overhauled and not the roads.
I agree with a number of posters. SLOW DOWN. Just because you own a SUV or a car with 4-wheel drive doesn’t mean you are invincible and the laws of physics don’t apply to you! I can’t tell you how many times driving to work in a snow fall where SUV’s are driving I swear 70 mph plowing by people. Like others said, give yourself distance, and the tailgating, come on people, when there’s traffic you honestly thing tailgating me is going to help? And even if ya do pass me, 9 times out of 10 I’ll catch up to ya at the next stoplight!
….and what’s up with the folks who have no hands on the steering wheel, especially in the slippery conditions? I encountered five of them in a 2.5 mile stretch on 35-E yesterday. What were they doing? Smoking, while talking on the cell phone.
Oh….and one other guy was taking the tweezers to his nose, gazing at himself in the mirror and talking on the cell phone…concurrently. Although it was dangerous behavior, it was funny to watch.
And these people wonder why they end up in the ditch or in the trunk of the car in front of them.
Why is it that every time something goes awry certain members of the government believe that it can be cured with money. All the money in the world cannot stop the stupidity of drivers who did not plan ahead.
A gas tax raise would not have changed a single thing but someone who does not live in the metro wants to fix our “problem” which was not a problem for those who slowed down.
Not to minimize the “because drivers are idiots … other drivers, not me, of course” factor, but there was something about the type of snow and the low temperatures than made the streets even more devilishly slippery than usual for a 2-inch snowfall.
Even driving to work on city streets in slow-motion mode there were several spots where I was surprised to find: steering wheel turns right, car keeps going straight. Yikes. It was like driving on grease.
I tend to agree with the above two words………….SLOW DOWN! The drivers with four wheel drive tend to be among the worst offenders for overdriving their abilities. Just because you have four wheel drive does not mean you have four wheel STOP. If you must tailgate behind me because you think I’m going too slow; back off and wait until its completely safe to go around me. I can only go as fast as the vehicle in front of me.
“Brakes are the worst thing to use in this weather.” Ummmmm….really? My car takes a lot longer to slow down and stop when I don’t use the brakes. I’d need a following distance of a quarter mile to avoid running into other vehicles. Hey, maybe that isn’t such a bad idea.
I think the biggest problem with winter driving around here is a lack of patience and the poor driving habits that are predominate in the Metro Area.
People have forgotten how to merge, signal, look further ahead than JUST the car in front of them, 1..Mississippi…2…Mississippi, and finally, common courtesy. The lack of these ’skills’ is tough enough to deal with on dry roads… add a bit of rain or dusting of snow and all our problems are compounded 200 times.
There needs to be a new Public Service Campaign that hi-lites these ’skills’ and how important they are in ANY weather and driving conditions.
riley, I definitely miss that cooperation!! I didn’t drive often when I lived by UMD so I didn’t notice it, but I wonder if the college students from the metro area picked up on that concept…
Based on the accident I saw at 530AM in the Crosstown Commons yesterday, it’s people that do not want to believe that the road conditions are “bad” that are the problem.
With the advent of ABS, traction and stability controls, it’s no wonder that people drive like idiots. In my opinion, people with all of these gizmo’s think they’re invincible because their computer will save them when they’re jerks. And it will likely get worse as more and more vehicles get these systems as standard equipment.
However, the real icing on the cake was the comment from State Senator Steve Murphy saying that it comes down to MnDOT not having enough money to hire plow drivers. More plows would not have helped yesterday’s situation because no amount of de-icing solutions would have helped because it was too cold for them to be effective. Additional snow plows would have just exacerbated the situation by further backing up traffic with their conga lines on the freeways. And based on comments from the union that represents snow plow drivers, people don’t want to be snow plow drivers, so no amount of money is going to change that unless it’s the Senator’s idea to offer six figure deals for plow drivers.
No, this comes down to a driver issue. Having sent my sons through the current version of this State’s driver’s education system, I would say we need to focus more on teaching people to actually drive. Not talk on the cell phone. Not eat their lunch. Not shave. Not read a book or newspaper. Drive. When I learned to drive an eternity ago, I spent more time behind the wheel just for driver’s education than both of my sons have to day and they’re 24 and 19. Driving is a skill and needs to be practiced a lot. Yet, my sons had possibly three, maybe four sessions of driving with their instructor and that was during good weather because they cancelled on “bad” weather days.
So, it was up to me to teach them how to drive in bad weather by taking them out on frozen lakes and unplowed parking lots with front and rear wheel drive vehicles. I doubt all people get such an opportunity, but I thought it was important for them to know to give them a fighting chance to stay alive.
In other countries it can cost a fortune ($2,500 USD and up) to obtain a drivers license and the requirements to obtain a license are very rigorous. In the UK for example, new drivers’ cars have “learner” plates until they have proven they are responsible drivers. In Germany, there is rigorous training and testing since they have places where there are no speed limits.
Maybe Senator Murphy should focus his efforts on drivers and not MnDOT. The problem lies with the people in those cars, not the organization that provides them with the surfaces to drive on.
All things considered, I think MnDOT did okay yesterday.
This wasn’t a simple problem of “BAD DRIVERS”–the snow plows were not out sanding & salting those roads in the early morning hours (I KNOW–I was up and didn’t see any preventative measure being taken to help those roads). If you wait until the snow actually starts to accumulate–it’s too late. Sorry people, blame this one on the transportation departments failure to plan ahead!
People drive like idiots - that’s the problem. 4-wheel drive does nothing for slippery. Slow down. Give other drivers some space. It’s basic MN winter driving.
I also try secondary roads in attempt to continue moving albiet slower. Fortunately I have the oppurtunity to work from home and delayed my departure 2 hours to allow but found the roadways still backed up.
My opinions are that drivers should drive slower but also STEADER to allow a smoother traffic flow.
Second, the south metro forces traffic to very few routes due to the finite number of river crossings available. Think about it, ten lanes available on 3 bridges; H169, I35 & Cedar for the majority of the south metro.
For my commute yesterday it all came down to visibility. I wasn’t sure if it was better to stay close enough to the car in front of me so I could actually see them if they were to crash (if they got more than 4-5 car lengths ahead they disappeared), or if I should just hope that by staying back I would be able to stop in time. Unless MNDOT has machines to make the wind stop blowing the snow around, I don’t see what they could have done yesterday.
It’s like us true-Minnesotans forget how to drive in these conditions! Strange what 8 months of decent road conditions can do to our abilities… 
But I drive well in these conditions… just so you know.
I drive that stretch of I-35 North through New Market toward Lakeville (the infamous “I-35 dip” at about Miles 78-80) every weekday on my way to work in the Metro Area. Yesterday’s weather-related pile-up was the worst I’ve ever seen in that area since I started commuting through there in the winter of 1998). I reached that spot at about 9:15 AM. The road and weather conditions at that time south and north of that stretch (in Rice County and Dakota) were not good but not nearly as bad as on that part of I-35 in Scott County. Going north past Route 2 (Exit 76) downhill into the dip, conditions suddenly got worse: the road was slipperier and the snow started blowing up in a near white-out. Actually the white-out may have been a good thing because it forced drivers to slow down enough not to get more seriously hurt if they ran into the mess of crashed and spun-out cars and 18-wheelers that quickly came into view at the bottom of the the dip. At 9:15-9:30 AM, I estimate that about 10-15 vehicles had crashed, with as many off in the ditches on either side of I-35 North. Already at 9:15-9:30 AM, there were too many incidents for the police to handle. I only saw one state trooper on the northbound lane and one Scott County police car tending to the one accident across on the southbound lane (that car might have actually crashed in the northbound lane and ended up in the southbound lane).
It is the hill theory…look at rush hour elsewhere.I35 at minnehaha. you have a dip and a hill going south to crosstown..conjestion…take crosstown east at penn ave..another hill conjestion…minnesota people are plains dwellers. now add a curve in the mix and you have a mess…MNdot should not allow any construction with these two elements..when they can not see over the top it just means hit the brakes
A lot of the comments here are laying the blame on idiotic drivers. Bad drivers are surely a factor (although overly cautious drivers can pose as much a danger as alert, assertive drivers) in yesterday’s mess. But frankly, the state and city governments did an extremely poor job of preparing for this “storm” (by which I mean there was no preparation). Having lived in upstate New York (which does not get as cold but get much more snow), I have seen how they do things elsewhere. Based on that, I offer some observations:
1. There is some weird fixation here with sand, which does not work nearly as well as salt. USE SALT - it lowers the freezing point of water and provides much more traction than sand.
2. Send out road crews BEFORE the snow starts falling. If snow is on the way, preparation will mitigate the effects of the snow. If crews had been out salting the roads before it started snowing, the roads would have been a lot cleaner.
3. It is ridiculous that a few inches of snow will linger on secondary and tertiary roads for weeks. Minnesota is a very high tax state - basic services, such as keeping the roads clear, should be better. I’m not sure if this is a local or state problem, but it is a consistent problem and ought to be addressed.
This happens all the time (though a big pileup is actually a rarity…) - snow and accidents go together. What is the solution? There is none. You heard me. Until we get people off the road, it will continue to happen. You can rail against driving habits, or ‘hills’ or the weather, but until we all live closer to where we work, and can get there without cars, it is going to keep happening. I got into work on time and I walked to the train.
I had to smile at the question, “What is this, Atlanta?”
My good friend recently told me that when she was living in Atlanta, it snowed an inch and while consulting with her boss if she should go into work, the response was, “For your safety, do not come into work. I know you are from the midwest and know how to drive in the snow, but we don’t and I fear you will get in an accident.”
Concerning why we all behaved poorly yesterday, I can’t offer any suggestions. Maybe we should all stop driving, for our own safety.
I have a solution that will solve most of the problems: Get some winter tires. Most people have crappy tires for snow and they don’t even know it. Why? Tires are tires. They are all-season so I should be able to do the same thing in July as I do in January. WRONG! I’m willling to be that 25-30% of all tires on the road right at this minute needs to be replaced but the car owner doesn’t know it. Slowing down is an obvious solution, but that too will cause log-jams. You buy a car that has all these safety items but you ignore the most important safety item of all-your tires.
Get off the phone and keep two eyes ahead of you. It doesnt matter if its snowing or not. If your on the phone and not paying attention to whats ahead of you. We are all going to pay.
Shut Up and Drive.
Think about it this way, most of minnesota views it as if a rain drop hits the windshield (during the summer) everyone slows way down, but yet if it snows everyone speeds up thinking they can handle it. The roads were extremely slippery south of the metro yesterday. There were many accidents that could have been prevented. Always keep about 4 car lengths between you and the person in front during unsafe conditions.
I think the end of the article on yesterday’s conditions says it all. After assorted bigwigs deny that the situation resulted from any lack of funds, an actual snowplow driver says he just couldn’t keep up on his route alone. To me that translates into the opposite of what the article stated: more manpower might have helped.
I thought most of the roads I traveled yesterday morning were in the same condition as they would have been if there had been no plowing whatsoever. People were going very slow and except for a few idiots, most folks were leaving a fair amount of space. But even my little 4WD Subaru, which usually holds the road amazingly well, was slipping around in spots. 494 in Plyouth was a sheet of ice and obviously very little had been done to the roadway. Everyone seems to want to let MnDOt off the hook for this mess, but I continue to believe that they could have done significantly more to alleviate the problems.
Inexperience, short memories, an impatient society, the false sense of safety (four wheel drive, etc.), selfishness, mild winters and just plain stupidity. Things like this didn’t happen ten years ago.
Just one more reason I love metro transit. I’m luckily able to drive less than 2 miles and take the train every day. I will move or find a new job if I ever I face having to drive to work again.
Greg, I agree in general with your comment. I think that this pile-up on the southern fringe of the Metro Area was a rare, once-in-a-decade event (when looking only at this smaller area). But there are already some “solutions” and behavioral changes that made this incident less bad than it might have been in the past: first, one big change is that apparently everyone who crashed was wearing a seatbelt. ABS and airbags also help. Mobile phones probably help a bit, too (maybe not in this particular case, with a pile-up of such magnitude). But other factors contributed to the problem: yes, the fact that more and more people choose to live in the exurbs like New Market where land is cheaper but commutes are longer and there’s no mass transit. More people are moving into the fringes of the Metro Area, so there are more cars but the highway infrastructure and emergency services can’t keep pace. Unlike closer in to the Twin Cities, there are no traffic cams or electronic incident warning signs, and then not enough cops or snow plows in relation to the amount of traffic that now travels that part of I-35. It’s great that you’re able to walk to the train, but the reality is that not everyone can so easily make the same choices in life that you did, with other considerations that come into play, like taxes, property values, schools, childcare, proximity of friends and family, and, unfortunately, the absence of widespread commuter rail and other adquate regional mass transit in the Metro Area. The Mew Market area in the South Metro could have been served by the “Dan Patch” commuter rail line, but that proposed rail line has been killed by the state government.
I agree with what these folks are saying. This does happen EVERY winter! And the problem is definately not the roads themselves. It’s the people driving on them. I saw people doing things on the roads yesterday that would be dangerous if it were sunny and 70 degrees. Cutting people off, tailgating, driving too fast… these are problems year-round.
With all the cell phone use, and other distractions that contribute to people just plain not paying attention, makes our roads scary enough when conditions are dry and sunny. It only makes sense that a little bit of snow mixed in with that, is going to turn our freeways into a disaster area.
Put the phone away, and pay attention to what is going on around you!
Down with hills and curves. They took the ridge away from Ridgedale when they made 394… why can’t they take the “W” away from 35? Maybe we could put a retractable dome over the freeway. Support free-snowfall. I would have taken the light rail to Minneapolis if it came all the way to downtown St. Paul, but I guess I’m going to have to wait until 2014 for that.
So as a native Pittsburgh’er - where there are REAL hills, ALL OVER - I would have to say that saying that the I-35 hill caused the wreck is pretty lame. I drive that stretch from the TC to Northfield and back on a regular basis. Most people drive that stretch like they own the darn highway. For some reason 70-75 mph isn’t fast enough for them. So I’m leaning on the idea that people not driving cautious enough were to blame on that one.
However, my commute from New Hope to the U of M was terrible. 394 was the worst. Traffic was backed up for miles - a true “parking lot” feel. There wasn’t even an accident from 100 to the 94 pickup but it was incredibly slow. Why? - well I would have to say that MnDot dropped the ball on that one. 394 was completely covered in compacted snow. It looked as if it wasn’t even plowed once. No cleared tire tracks to follow… hell, no lane markers in most spots. So it was snowy, icy, and very slick. Where were ya MnDOT???
At least most people driving around me were very cautious and driving slow. A normal 15 minute commute took 1 hour and 20 minutes.
I was actually driving southbound on 35 during and immediately after all of this took place. I’ve been driving this road for 14 years and I’ve NEVER seen anything like this. Given all the usual factors that have already been rehearsed above (which no doubt play a major role in these snow related accidents), the other thing going on was that the blowing snow made it impossible to see more than a car length in front of you. Sadly (as you may have guessed) this didn’t seem to deter people from driving fast, either. So people were flying up on my tail-end, getting too close and breaking at the last minute. Truly frightening.
I think everyone got caught off-guard by the snow… goodness knows I did (although I didn’t wreck).
I think there’s an adage floating around that says that under a certain temperature, snow is not possible. I don’t think people thought that it COULD snow when it was as cold as it is, but then found out otherwise.
People also tend to forget about black ice during cold weather and with the snow obscuring the glare, more problems occured.
My Top 3 Reasons!
1. No one expected to wake up to snow!
2. Plows and salt and sand trucks didn’t appear until after the snow stopped.
3. People irritated because not only is it below zero, now we have to deal with the snow thus creating mad people on the roads!
I was getting on to 35W at Industrial Blvd yesterday morning at about 10:30 am. There were 4 plows going up that ramp just in front of me (which was cool). The plows went in tandem to clear all 4 lanes and almost everyone on the road at that point SLOWED down, except for one person (a woman in a new 4 wheel drive SUV) who decided she was in too much of a hurry to wait for the plows. Well try as she may, she couldn’t get around them (which was probably a good thing)…anyway the moral of the story is….when the weather makes the driving difficult, slow down and increase the distance between you and the vehicle in front of you (you can’t control the one behind you).
The only thing in your control in these situations is yourself.
Do something like this:
Pass a law that states a person living more than 10 miles from their place of employment cannot be fired or otherwise disiplined for appearing 15-30 minutes (30-45 for 10 miles) late during “commute emergencies” as declared by the Commissioner of Transportation or the Governor.
Exclude the usual police/fire/medical workers, and companies that initiate a “poor weather” reminder service that alerts their own employees of the need to leave for work early.
I witnessed two accidents during yesterday morning’s commute. Both were due to driving TOO fast for the conditions. One person in the first accident admitted, “I was running late to work already, now I’ll really be late”. Allow time, have patience…get there safely, even if it means getting to your destination late. How many times have we heard the advice, “better late - than never”.
I live in Atlanta - trust me, when we have a 1/2 inch snowfall you don’t read about 35 car pileups! We can drive just fine!
One of the big problems is that many of our drivers were at the helm of an ox cart in rural Mogadishu ten months ago.
MN needs better drivers’ training. No one here ever looks at their speedometers except to see how much faster they can go. Result: “I was just going with the flow of the traffic” which is about 20 miles over the speed limit. I took a defensive driving course and finally became aware of the NEED to drive the speed limit or below, if road conditions warrent it. MN drivers never drive the speed limit (drivers are constantly passing me and giving me dirty looks — even on side streets). I could go on and on about how MN drivers don’t even know traffic laws, nor do they obey them when they do. Instead, I walk to work.
I agree with the previous entries stating the drivers are just too stupid - end of story. Ain’t it the truth? We are a nation of idiotic, multi-tasking fools who choose to operate an unnecessary cell-phone call while switching CD’s or radio stations, all while eating, applying make-up, and/or working on an open laptop PC on the passenger seat. Don’t laugh - I often ride the bus and you can peer down into cars to see what the drivers are up to. Oh - I also forgot reading a novel spread open on your steering wheel. Yup, it’s done frequently, and every single day.
I’m of the minority who choose to actually STOP at a stop sign and red light, who does not tailgate, and who allows for proper stopping distance in bad weather. I refuse to drive an SUV because I have no need for the extra space, 4-wheel drive capabilities, or the extra wasted fossil fuel. Check out 9 of 10 SUV’s - they’re drivers are not hauling a thing, they have no passengers, and they expect their 4-wheel drive to help them stop and avoid slipping.
Since when did leaving the MN DOT driving course mean we take leave of our senses and stop using turn signals, stop having the lights & wipers on during rain, and other such infractions? The police, who are ever-so-worried about speeding, should focus on turing around several generations of poor drivers who refuse to follow the basic driving laws.
It is funnier still that people were crashing all over the place TODAY, when there wasn’t any snow.
I don’t know what it is.
-Joe PR Professional
Uhh, the answer is slow down, use common sense, watch the road, get off people’s a**.
Just because you have a truck, a jeep or an SUV doesn’t mean you can drive like a mad-man (or woman).
Snow is never a surprise in Minnesota — dumb drivers aren’t either.
I drove highway 100 south yesterday and it was crazy. People were cutting in front of each other like yoiu would’t believe. Needless to say, I got off the highway and took back roads the rest of the way. I think MnDOT does a great job getting the roads in condition. They are not to blame. So many people think that because they have four wheel drive or big SUV’s, they are invincible. Hello…you can still cause accidents. When conditions are such, people need to concentrate on their driving and not who’s calling on their cell phone while weaving in and out of traffic. This would make the roads a whole lots safer and make a lot of people more happier.
The car makers’ ads would have us believe that a serious Winter driver can buy an SUV and safely drive as though it were summer. SUVs and their drivers are less safe, not more. They can’t parallel park or negotiate tight areas, nobody behind them can see driving conditions ahead, and occupants of normal cars are probably a lot more likely to be killed when hit by an SUV than by another normal car. Their weight and inertia make them helpless to stop on truly icy roads. When parked near corners on the street, they make it impossible to see oncoming traffic. Their drivers are least likely to respect the rules of right of way. Is that cause or effect?
Any car can make it through winter driving season, with (properly inflated) snow tires and sand tubes, and hopefully, front wheel drive or all wheel drive.
Drive as though you have ice under your tires and a cop behind you, and you’ll never have a problem.
I agree that slowing down, paying attention, and anticipating changes in traffic are important. At the same time, the people who drive too slowly are accidents waiting to happen. They make even the most even-tempered drivers go crazy, which causes accidents.
I don’t see what the big deal was yesterday. I got stuck driving my husband’s truck–no 4 wheel drive and no sandbags in the bed. It’s heavy, loves to fishtail, and takes forever to stop (ok compared to my car). I didn’t have any problems yesterday, and I was driving to work before the plows were able to get all of the main roadways.
I, too, wonder how some people got their license. However, I don’t think MnDOT really could have done anything better. Blame the DMV…
SUVs and their drivers are less safe, not more. They can’t parallel park or negotiate tight areas… Their drivers are least likely to respect the rules of right of way…
Timber, is that just your opinion or do you know of facts that back up those comments?
Great generalizations.
I think it bears repeating AGAIN in this thread that SALT DOESN’T WORK VERY WELL BELOW ZERO (or really even below 20 degrees). There, maybe that will catch someone’s eye as they scroll down the page on their way to complaining about how salt trucks weren’t out yesterday morning. MNDot was saving us money yesterday because they know simple science.
Ohmygod I cannot contain myself after reading about how everyone should SLOW DOWN.
This may sound counterintuitive, but it is the people going ridiculously slow who ARE THE PROBLEM. They act like they have never seen snow before. And I am not talking cautious rational people. I am talking about the people who grip the wheel with both hands and go 15 mph an hour on the highway. THAT is what causes a backup with SO LITTLE SNOW. If there is ice, I am all for going 15 mph on the highway. But come on, we had like an inch or two of snow. And when people are going THAT slow, better drivers have no choice but to try to get out of the lane and ahead of them, to keep our sanity. Changing lanes causes accidents. And going a reasonable speed limit and suddenly coming upon someone going 10mph causes accidents. That\’s why there is a minimum speed limit on highways even when the roads are clear. Super slow drivers are just as much of a hazard as fast drivers. I\’ve read that IQ correlates with driving ability, and it couldn\’t be more obvious during bad weather. People with slow processing should not be driving, their snail-like tendencies are MORE of a hazard than those who speed.
1.. There WAS ice yesterday. (Or at least a frozen layer of snow.)
2… Yes slow drivers on the highways can be problematic, but if you’re driving a reasonable speed and paying attention, you should be able to SEE that slow driver early enough to make a correction.
i agree that mndot should have salted and sanded in advance of the snow.
but all the weather reports i saw predicted no snow until noonish. did anyone know it was going to start snowing at 5 a.m?
ps to heather–i don’t know if twin cities students picked up on the no-stopping-if-you’re-going-uphill-on slick roads in duluth. i do remember, though, when i lived on top of the hill, my little car churning up the hill through the snow and people stopping and waving cheerily as i trundled past….
i’d be afraid to try that here.
amanjo is right, when it is as cold as it was yesterday, salt won’t work. The legislators that are whining that funding is the problem need to do some simple science. The fact is that for every degree the temperature drops it takes exponentially more salt to lower the freezing point of the water to a point that will melt the snow. For instance it takes 5 times more salt to melt the same amount of snow at 20 degrees than at 30 degrees. Figure that for -10 like yesterday and it takes so much salt to melt the snow, that while possible, it’s so impractical as to be a near complete waste of resources.
The plows were out yesterday, but as many people have said, the accidents and backups started so early, that as soon as the plows were out they were stuck in traffic. Sure they could have come out the night before, but what good would it have done? The salt wouldn’t have melted the snow because it was too cold.
I was in front of a line of 5 snowplows on 94 and they were doing little more than backing up traffic even more. There wasn’t much on the ground to plow, and what could be plowed was really only clearing off the packed down snow/ice already formed. They would have to dump so much salt on that stuff to melt it that it was little more than an effort in futility. Sand may have increased traction, but we don’t do that in MN, so we have to deal with the weaknesses of the methods we do use.
No amount of gas tax increase or funding would have fixed yesterdays problems. Simple science says it was just a really bad combination of natural factors and stupid drivers.
I just wanted to chime in and be a jerk and comment on my lovely normal commute on the express bus yesterday morning. That’s one option there’s no arguing with on days like yesterday, provided service reaches your area. Funny, I was just thinking a couple days before about how nice it would be to have a car…
Ms. Hilburger-
Just because there is a minimum speed limit on the majority of our freeways, does not mean you HAVE to go that speed no matter what! I am one of those ‘overly cautious’ drivers you seem to abhor and I am an Electrical Engineer. Are you still going to insist that my IQ causes me to be “slow”?. Get yourself in a nasty accident; which was no fault of yours, because of icy conditions and maybe you will slow down as well.
Hey Melissa, I know some EEs with low IQs. What you say about the minimum speed limit indicated on freeways and expressways is untrue. You can be cited for violating the minimum speed limit the same as the maximum. I am a traffic engineer (I know some of us have low IQs too), and studies show slow drivers can be as deangerous to the flow of traffic as fast drivers, if not worse. Even more so if they hang out in the farthest left lane, which is meant for passing.
Riley said: “i agree that mndot should have salted and sanded in advance of the snow. but all the weather reports i saw predicted no snow until noonish. did anyone know it was going to start snowing at 5 a.m?”
Yes, the NWS forecast as of Monday night was for light snow starting sometime after 3 a.m. Tuesday and ending around noon.
The surprise was in the amount. Forecast was for a half-inch to an inch in the metro, 2-4 inches to the south and west. Actual was 1-3 inches in metro, 4-6 inches south and west.
There are stupid people every where. They are the cause of most accidents. Just like when you go to the movies. Surely, there will some jackass that will be talking during the movie. We can’t escape them. They are loud. They talk on their cell phones while driving and they like to tailgate. There are no solutions. There are no fixes. In fact, as I write this, another stupid person was just born. He/she will be causing accidents in 16 years.
It’s seems like in most things, timing was everything. The storm intensified just as the commute started and I’m guessing it wasn’t “snow driving amensia” or inclines on 35, just bad timing.
I work at home and there are days when I wish I could banter about the Super Bowl commercials around the water cooler, but today I was happy to be lonely and stationary.
Hey Dave-
I understand that you can be cited for violating the minimum speed limit on some of our freeways and interstates; but that is if you’re driving in IDEAL road conditions. I also understand that extremely slow drivers can be as dangerous as those that insist on driving too fast. I used to drive I-94 everyday from Big Lake to Plymouth and was more than happy to keep up with traffic in the left lane, provided road conditions were dry, etc. But, when snow/ice warranted slower speeds, I was the first to be in the RIGHT lane. My statement about being overly cautious has to do with the fact that I slid off the road in icy conditions with a small child in my back seat because I assumed that because everyone else was doing at least 50 mph, I-94 was fine. I was wrong (overly confident). I refuse to risk my life and the life of my child because everyone else assumes they will not spin out, etc. Those that are overly confident are more of a danger than those of us that place more value on our lives and the lives of others than those who are worried about getting to work on time.
p.s. Glad to see that you admit that some of you traffic engineers have low IQ’s too.. hee hee. I still wonder how some of my cohorts ever got their degree!!
Dave-
As an FYI………my ex Father-in-Law was a State Trooper. Hence the reason I understand the minimum speed limit on the interstates. He had never cited anyone going what everyone else deemed “too slow” because the road conditions were less than perfect; as long as they were in the far right lane.
Hope you understand my point of view.
Of course, speed and innatentive driving contribute to our problems. But has anyone noticed that the state uses very little sand today? Sand has to be cleaned up in the spring, costing money and time. Salt is not helpfull when the temps are this cold. Add the cost of someone throwing down that sand (or not) and it becomes an issue of the state looking at it’s (our) dollars and cents.
I finally had the chance to read through all the comments on here before commenting again, and I just can’t help myself — the one word that I haven’t seen mentioned that typifies what caused the pileup is ARROGANCE and that is exemplified perfectly with a late comment by one of your readers.
Drivers like Amy Hilburger are one of the reasons I take mass transit. Railing against drivers going slowly in inclement weather by saying “they act like they have never seen snow before” is indicative of the incredible arrogance of Minnesota drivers when it comes to driving in bad conditions — you think because you drive here often, that makes you a top-notch driver when the weather turns terrible.
The funny part is you’re still a Minnesota driver no matter what the weather is, and in my experience (driving not only here but also in Chicago, Milwaukee, and New York City) that usually means your driving makes good drivers tense and nervous because you’re unpredictable and rash, often on the cellphone or doing half a dozen other things instead of paying attention to the road.
When I find someone going slowly in inclement weather, I’m often grateful because it gives me an ‘excuse’ to drive more cautiously as well, rather than try to keep up with the crush of idiots thinking “Oh, it’s only a couple inches, I can still go 75, no problem. I’m a Minnesota driver, after all.” Give me a break. I can’t tell you how many times I wish I had a device that allowed me to display a huge upraised middle finger in my back window for all the tailgaters on my butt when I’m already going a few miles over the speed limit.
No way am I buying a car while I still live in Minnesota. It isn’t worth the mental stress. I thought driving in NYC was bad, but it’s absolutely nothing compared to how tense and uber-defensive I feel when I’m driving amongst Minnesota drivers.
Perfect… Thank you to Amy for getting people like Vicki off the road. Easing our congestion one transit user at a time. (I take the train to work, but not because I\’m afraid of the world around me).
Dave, you are funny. We should go driving together and road rage all sick.
The more I got to thinking about my driving pet peeves, the more I realized that it isn’t about how fast people go.
The real irritation, regardless of road conditions, is when slow drivers are either oblivious or passive-aggressive and refuse to get out of the fast lane (far left lane) to let it flow smoothly. It is dangerous when those in the fast lane have to resort to lane-change maneuvers to get around people going 50 in the left lane.
And it’s arrogant to judge those who are driving fast. How do you know if they are just late to work, or rushing to the hospital to see a loved one? Rushing their pet to the vet? These emergencies do happen.
Whenever I am in the fast lane, and someone comes up behind me, I get over. Without fail. Even if I am already going 60 in a 50 zone. Even if it slows me down momentarily. Then I get back over if I need to.
If someday I am in a hurry because of an emergency and someone is parked in the fast lane doing 45mph, I swear I will go postal. It will be my breaking point from an already constant irritation with seeing this everyday. There are a lot of people on the road who think they are the center of the universe, and by golly they are not going to get over for anyone! Puulease…
Vicki-I have also fantisized about having a neon sign above my car where I could type anything I wanted, backwards, so the person in front of me could read it in their rearview.
Oh, and having some sort of device attached to the front of my car that would kindly place slow drivers in the right lane.
I love how everyone is posting about how everyone else are idiots, while misspelling and using improper English.
Esayer, I do not see an abundance of misspelled words. As for the improper English, most of us do not have all day to spend editing and reviewing what we write. We just want to get our point across relatively quickly. It’s a forum, not a dissertation.
Granted, I can understand the frustration with slow drivers in the left lane, but when inclement weather is a factor, I think everyone should lighten up and slow the hell down. I don’t care what your emergency is — you could cause 10 more emergencies for everyone else with rash driving in crappy conditions, and you know it. Your emergency isn’t necessarily the most important thing in the world to everyone else on the road. Those are reserved for the big trucks with the flashing lights and the sirens, remember?
If I’m passing a slow driver in the right lane and someone roars up on my butt in the left lane while I’m passing at my normal speed, it irks the crap out of me that they expect me to go 80 just to get out of their way as fast as possible. They can slow down for the five seconds it might take to pass the slow driver in the right. I just don’t believe that any arrogance on the road is warranted, fast or slow.
I love my bus ride. We cruise down the shoulder right past all the stopped traffic.
I just got nabbed for a DWI and will be taking the bus from St Paul to lovely Eagan beginning next month. It will take 40 mins. more each way compared to driving, but the freedom from dealing with MN drivers - close to the worst in the nation - and added exercise walking from said bus will benefit my AA recovery program. I think I will keep the car in storage until I move out of state or donate it to the Mormons.
Vicki, you are so right, there are no worthy emergencies unless an ambulance is involved. And I am no longer talking only about bad roads, but anytime.
If a pet is dying in the car, sick, on the way to the vet.
Family member in the hospital in critical condition (ambulances don’t pick up the whole family, remember?).
Oh, and best of all, the HEADLINE on today’s Trib about the woman who had to give BIRTH ON HWY 100!! Yeah, they should have just dropped their “arrogance” and went the speed limit. I love how black and white your world is when it comes to right and wrong.
And the more I got to thinking about your comment that MN drivers are more hostile than New Yorkers, the harder I laughed at the ridiculousness of it.
I do not get offended when people in the fast lane approach quickly from behind. That is their signal that as soon as I can, I should get over. If you don’t give people in the fast lane a hint, they just park there. Even when they know you want to pass, they often stay there.
This is the last I’m going to comment on this issue, but clarification is necessary: ‘hostile’ was not the word I used to describe MN drivers. I said that driving in MN makes me more tense and defensive than I ever felt while driving in NY.
In NY, the feeling one gets is that there is a certain flow to things, and those who drive regularly in the city are aware of the subtle nuances of what it means to drive there; you drive aggressively, sure, but not stupidly and not without any consideration for your fellow drivers on the road. And you don’t see a whole helluva lot of drivers in NY messing around with peripheral junk that distracts them from the task at hand, because they understand that to do so risks injury and death, not only to themselves but to those around them. I simply don’t get that feeling when driving around MN drivers; I feel as if those around me are driving with the impression that they are islands unto themselves and their actions do not impinge upon anyone around them. I’m sorry that the distinction was not clearer for you. NY drivers may be slightly crazy, but they know what they’re doing. There is a synchronicity there that isn’t present in MN, for whatever reason.
Emergencies… like I said, everyone has their own definition of emergency. But I don’t feel anyone else has the god-given right to cause an emergency in MY life through reckless and irresponsible driving simply because they’re attending to an emergency of their own. When you choose to drive, you choose to take on the responsibility of managing a vehicle that could cause harm to others, and that includes wielding it responsibly regardless of the situation.
Sorry, Roadguy! I’ll stop fueling the fire now.
Wanting to pass in the fast lane is by no means equivalent to “reckless and irresponsible.” Obviously I am not advocating that people run others off the road in an emergency. But, as you said, MN drivers are self-centered, and fail to see or care when they are in the left lane and should not be.
