StarTribune.com

If you’re warming up your car, know when to sit and stay

Posted on January 30th, 2008 – 6:05 AM
By Roadguy

ColdGauge.JPGTwenty below with a nice breeze, with windchills dipping to minus 43 — gotta love a January forecast like that. Waiting for the bus, biking, driving a frozen car — just about everyone feels some transportation pain on mornings like this. (Except maybe the heated-garage crowd.)

But remember, in some places — such as the fair city of Minneapolis — it’s illegal to leave your car running with the keys in the ignition*, even if you lock the doors. (A Minneapolis police brochure with winter auto-theft prevention tips is here.) Roadguy gave the cops a quick call yesterday, and they confirmed that it’s OK if you have one of those remote-start devices that prevents the car from being driven. But otherwise, if you want to warm up your vehicle, you need to sit and stay.

Not everybody does this, of course — perhaps not even you. If you’re a scofflaw who lets his or her car warm up unguarded, or if you have a related story to share, please take advantage of the anonymity of the Internet and post a comment below.

*UPDATES (posted at 1 p.m.):

  • Alert reader Subgenius is correct in his quotation of the Minneapolis ordinance — it only applies to cars parked on public streets or alleys, something the city brochure fails to mention. (The sergeant I talked to yesterday also failed to mention it; the one I contacted today cleared things up.)
  • If you’re warming up the car because you think it benefits the car, check out this link to the Car Talk archive. If it’s 10 or 15 above, the guys say just drive it; if it’s bitterly cold, a minute or two ought to do it.
  • The overnight low in the Twin Cities was actually a balmy 14 below, not the predicted 20 below.

47 Responses to "If you’re warming up your car, know when to sit and stay"

Mary says:

January 30th, 2008 at 6:17 am

For Remote Start, how about offsetting the national security costs and the environmental damage with user fees: $10,000/year and buy the right to use remote start even above 20 degrees. For $5,000 a year, you could use it above zero. It would cost only $1,000 a year to offset your pre-heating at temperatures above minus 10, and below that, it would add a mere $10 to your annual auto costs (plus whatever gas it burned). The yield from the fees could be split between funding the Iraq war and planting trees.

Stephanie says:

January 30th, 2008 at 7:16 am

So it’s illegal in Minneapolis, but what about all the rest of the cities around here? Is there a way to know the legality of letting your car warm up in the specific suburbs we live in?

pr says:

January 30th, 2008 at 7:28 am

What a joke! Is this the best use of the police we can find in Minneapolis? Just another example of the nanny state that MN has become.

Trent says:

January 30th, 2008 at 7:32 am

If someone is walking around today “car shopping” they need my car more than I do.

Sean says:

January 30th, 2008 at 7:36 am

Warming up your car for an extended period of time is a complete waste of energy anyway. This doesn’t mean you should start your car and drive off immediately, though, even if it is warm outside.

The rule of thumb is this: Start your car and wait for the idle to go down. Once it does that, you are ready to drive and any more warming up is just a waste. This is the open/closed loop process and only takes a few moments.

It really makes it easy if you have to scrape your windows because by the time you are done scraping, the car is ready to go.

To all the people who insist on letting their car warm up for a very long time, try this experiment…take a look at the temp gauge on your dashboard. You will notice that it never climbs very high until you actually put the car in gear and put drag on the engine, unless there is something wrong with your cooling system, of course. Your car will only get so warm until you make it do any work.

Also…when your car is below normal operating temperature, don’t blast the heat/fan until the car warms up, otherwise you are simply blowing around really cold air. The exception is blasting the defrost since anything is warmer than the windshield.

Illya says:

January 30th, 2008 at 7:44 am

In 2000, I left my car running in Mpls. When I came out, it was gone. Gone! So, it can happen. I didn’t get a ticket, though. Maybe I ruined it for everybody else. Sorry!

Joe says:

January 30th, 2008 at 7:50 am

I guess it’s our fault the cars get stolen then, not the theives! After all, they couldn’t help themselves and we left too much temptation by leaving our cars running. And if they ever got caught, you’d pay more of a fine than they would, what bull!

Jon says:

January 30th, 2008 at 7:52 am

I wonder if this law also includes warming you car up in your own garage with the garage door open?

Art says:

January 30th, 2008 at 7:57 am

Jon, don’t do that unless it’s a detached garage as you can still get carbon monoxide in your house!

Michaelr says:

January 30th, 2008 at 7:58 am

If I’m sitting in the car while it’s warming up, I’m defeating the purpose of warming it up in the first place. No Thanks! This is one law that I break regularly. Yes, I deliberately disobey this law. However, at least I am not sitting in a cold car freezing my rear end off. This is a perfect example of idiotic law making. Those that pass these laws and enforce them are totally out of touch with who it is that they are supposed to be working for.

Patti says:

January 30th, 2008 at 8:00 am

Well, for all of the comments here, like the law or not, if you leave your keys in your car, and it’s stolen, forget about your insurance to cover anything that happens while theif is driving your car. The Minneapolis Police ARE protecting you and your lack of common sense.

Yes, even if you car is in your garage, door open, car running, it’s your fault if your car is stolen.

It’s called common sense, folks!

If you want to find out if your community police department has the same law, call you local police!

Matty says:

January 30th, 2008 at 8:19 am

Thanks for the great comment Patti; this isn’t about tempting thieves, but about enabling them.

I think that motorists leaving cars unattended is the main root cause to violent crime in Twin Cities today. This theory is in contrast to the theory of Hennepin County sheriff Stanek who believes suburban marijuana farms are to blame for the violent crime we might witness around us in the Twin Cities these days.

I think Katherine Kersten is blaming radical jihadists in her column today. . .

Randolph says:

January 30th, 2008 at 8:54 am

I have a remote control starter that I purchased a couple of winters back while it was on sale for about $100 installed. The main reason why I did this is because I have young children, and I didn’t want to leave them exposed to the cold for too long as the car warmed up, I didn’t want to leave them unsupervised in the house while I waited outside for the car to warm up, or risk the vehicle being stolen from my Minneapolis neighborhood as I left it unsupervised. Of course the remote control car starter is anti-theft, where it turns the car off automatically if the brake is stepped on. Also, it turns off automatically if left on for 15 minutes.

michelle says:

January 30th, 2008 at 9:33 am

Alot of my friends have gotten their cars stolen this year, especially older model Hondas and Toyotas. I live in a neighborhood where cars do get stolen with some regularity. Still, I sometimes leave my car running (while I’m looking out the window) with a “club” on, still illegal I suppose, and I think if they are ambitious, car theives could still drive the car a certain distance with the club on as long as they avoided sharp turns. (When the ignition is off, you can place the club on the steering wheel in that ‘locked’ position. When the car is running, the steering wheel moves freely.

Monte says:

January 30th, 2008 at 9:37 am

I thought this was only illegal on public property in Minneapolis, am I mistaken?

For the record, I do have a remote starter- best $50 I ever spent. I keep my vehicle in the driveway at home and right outside the windows at work so I can just activate it from inside. Helps a lot to have both basic electronics knowlege and a service manual if you want to install one of these yourself as I did.

Rico Suave says:

January 30th, 2008 at 10:16 am

Didn’t Roadguy post something just recently saying that modern, fuel-injected cars don’t even need to be warmed up? If you’re warming up your late-model car, it’s solely for your own comfort. Dress for the weather, start ‘er up, and hit the black ice!

Betty says:

January 30th, 2008 at 10:25 am

Hahahaha only in MN do they WANT you to freeze your butt off! Yet another reason I’ll be putting an auto-starter in my car.

Bruce says:

January 30th, 2008 at 10:49 am

I call it the “stupid factor”. It is evident everywhere - this is just another case of it. The law is there to protect those stupid enough to leave the vehicle unattended and running. A lot of the reasons are identified above - insurance, enabling thieves, etc. Another is safety - guess who is liable if something happens with an unattended vehicle. There is no good reason to leave it run. It burns excess fuel, they don’t cool down that fast - not even on a day like today. The newer vehicles don’t warm internally like they used to when sitting and idling after being started. So again - it has to be the “Stupid Factor”.

Barry says:

January 30th, 2008 at 10:52 am

Ooo, Matty, I gotta take a serious disagreement with ya. Stolen cars do lead to violence, but I assure you, it’s not the number-one cause.
I have done the leave-the-car running in ten-below thing… I live very close to a gangsta hood to the north and a meth-maniac area to the southeast. They all will do their crime no matter what. I had hoped that my compact winter beater would not be usable to a thug, but I can’t be sure of that, too.
I agree with the law and the insurance to a point. Leaving the car running is no different from leaving food out on a camping trip. You will attract the animals either way.

Steve says:

January 30th, 2008 at 10:59 am

What a joke. Like any police officer is going to sit in -20 and write a ticket for this.

JKP says:

January 30th, 2008 at 11:09 am

I have one of those remote starters in my car and I just LOVE it. I don’t want to have another car without it. Yes, call me spoiled, but with an infant, it’s sure nice to have the car warmed up without having to go outside in the cold to start it.

LB says:

January 30th, 2008 at 11:20 am

The brochure seems to indicate that the keys cannot be in the car at all unless the driver is also in the car. That would mean we’re breaking the law if the keys are in the car while we scrape the windshield, load the trunk, or buckle our kids into the backseat.
What does the actual statute read?

Ed says:

January 30th, 2008 at 11:21 am

Well, I for one can think of a good reason to let it warm up. Look at the cars you drive by where that is the only reason the lazy people in this city can see where they are going . Turn on the wipers for a second and drive away. Don’t bother to clear the windows(front side and rear),tail lights or your Plate,(also illegal to have an obstructed license plate). If these jokers don’t let there cars warm up they are putting us all at risk because they are lazy. So let them warm them Up. Oh and I had a car stolen with out the keys in it when I lived in the wonderful city of Minneapolis. So key or no keys if they want it they will take it

Nate says:

January 30th, 2008 at 11:28 am

As harsh as this may sound, I would say it is ok when people die or are victim of their own stupidity (like driving without seat belts, drunk to death, stolen car, etc). Its just Darwin’s evolution theory at it’s finest, natural selection of the fittest.

esayer says:

January 30th, 2008 at 12:02 pm

You all are such curmudgeons. On the 3 days a year when it’s -30 I will break the law in my driveway and warm up my car. It’s my fault if it gets stolen, but I’m willing to risk it, considering my breaks don’t work unless they’re warmed up a bit.

esayer says:

January 30th, 2008 at 12:05 pm

BTW, Nate, it’s called ’survival of the fittest’ and I have a hunch based on your grammar you are not one of the ‘fittest.’

Mark G says:

January 30th, 2008 at 12:09 pm

I bring my lab out and she sits in the car while it’s warming up. Is that illegal?

subgenius says:

January 30th, 2008 at 12:20 pm

Every year this comes up, it never ceases to amaze me that the articles and various police advisories always leave out this one important detail.

Here is the WHOLE story - the restriction applies to public roadways only, NOT private property. There are good reasons not to do it there either (e.g., neither a thief nor your insurer will likely care whether you’re parked on a street or your driveway), but you cannot be ticketed for the practice by the police.

Here’s the text of Minneapolis’ ordinance:

478.160. Duty to lock ignition, remove key. Every person parking a passenger automobile on a public street or alley in the city shall lock the ignition, remove the key, and take the same with him.

Michaelr says:

January 30th, 2008 at 12:50 pm

Sorry, but for those of you that think it is stupid to leave your car warming up on a day like today, I’d like to offer this:
It’s far more dangerous and Very Stupid to be sitting in your car, warming it up, when the carjackers approach you. Go ahead and preach self righteously about the merits of this law if you must, but, to me, it’s just a car. I’d rather be safe…and warm…Thanks.

Matty says:

January 30th, 2008 at 12:54 pm

Carjackers? Michaelr must have read KK’s column today. It kind of scared me too.

Joe Schmoe says:

January 30th, 2008 at 12:58 pm

Thanks for clearing that up, subgenius. I was trying to understand how it could be illegal for me to have my car running in my own driveway.

I don’t have a remote starter, but I wish I did.

Dan says:

January 30th, 2008 at 1:02 pm

I agree with esayer. Some of us drive cars that are not 2008 models and have some issues. He needs to get his car warm in order for his breaks to work, and mine does not shift well until warm. To say you don’t need to allow your car to warm up a bit is ridiculous. You idiots keep driving immediately after starting it and see how well your car holds up.

Suz says:

January 30th, 2008 at 1:03 pm

“478.160. Duty to lock ignition, remove key. Every person parking a passenger automobile on a public street or alley in the city shall lock the ignition, remove the key, and take the same with him.” This sounds like it’s also illegal to leave the keys in the car when it’s not running. Is that right?

Just Sayin says:

January 30th, 2008 at 1:04 pm

Dont get your car stolen in St Paul after leaving it running unattended with keys inside. The police there have an official policy to ticket anyone reporting their car stolen if their keys were inside. Talk about adding insult to injury.

Pete says:

January 30th, 2008 at 1:13 pm

Just remember, you’re getting 0 mpg while your car is warming up…

Michaelr says:

January 30th, 2008 at 1:43 pm

The furnace in my homes gets 0 mpg as well, Pete, but I leave it running anyway!

Barry says:

January 30th, 2008 at 2:36 pm

Haven’t read Kersten, today (I swore I would never go back, cuz a couple of the commenters gave me the creeps.)

But, if carjacking is that prevalent in your ‘hood, then it’s time to get all your neighbors together to march on the capitol and demand some serious public safety measures.

If there’s enough police to ticket you for leaving the car running, then there’s enough police to take down a carjacker.

JACC says:

January 30th, 2008 at 2:58 pm

I keep my car running and the doors locked.

The workers at my morning SA stop are always telling me about how the cops ticket people for leaving cars running while inside.

I’ve noticed it doesn’t keep the Maplewood police that hang out from leaving their cars running while in the store.

Matty says:

January 30th, 2008 at 3:12 pm

Nice point JACC, but that’s not limited to Maplewood. The Minneapolis PD is fond of leaving idling squad cars unattended as well. I see them quite regularly.

Suz says:

January 30th, 2008 at 3:37 pm

Mark - “I bring my lab out and she sits in the car while it’s warming up. Is that illegal?” I don’t know if that’s illegal or not but you reminded me of my former coworker.

We used to have an instrument in our lab that would run overnight. So every Sat. we’d take turns coming in to turn it off and take out the samples. One time when it was my coworker’s turn, she left her car running with her dog in it. He knocked it into gear and it crashed into the wall of our lab.

Art says:

January 30th, 2008 at 3:58 pm

I can’t take it anymore and I have to vent!!! esayer and Dan, those “thingies” that stop your car are BRAKES, not breaks!!! A break is when you have your coffee at work. I know it’s childish to point out, but it drives me crazy to see it in sooooo many posts on here.

Barry says:

January 30th, 2008 at 4:46 pm

Or a break is what happens to the windshield and headlights when your dog tries to drive your car.

subgenius says:

January 30th, 2008 at 7:10 pm

They don’t mention it because they don’t want you to know. Could it be they’re ticketing (such as in an SA lot or other private property…) where they shouldn’t be? If you don’t know, you’re more likely to roll over and pay up.

cowboy says:

January 31st, 2008 at 6:40 am

Art, you beat me to it. esayer, you probably shouldn’t be knocking people when your own spelling needs a little work.

SrThomasJN says:

January 31st, 2008 at 9:38 am

Joe said- I guess it’s our fault the cars get stolen then, not the theives! After all, they couldn’t help themselves and we left too much temptation by leaving our cars running. And if they ever got caught, you’d pay more of a fine than they would, what bull!

And yes it is your fault if your car gets stolen because you leave the car running without you in it. The thieves of course are also to blame, but it’s called a crime of opportunity, if you didn’t leave your keys in your car they might not have stolen it.

I use my automatic starter when I can, usually for 1-2 minutes before I get in the car. I have to let my car start up because my drive time is too short and the battery doesn’t get enough time to recharge after starting the car when it’s cold out. So anytime it’s under 0 I have to let the battery get a chance to restart or after a couple days it will be dead or unable to start my car when it’s cold out.

Devin Quince says:

January 31st, 2008 at 9:17 pm

My vehicle has no issues with being warm when I need it, oh wait I ride a bike and yes even this week when the temps were -15! All you drivers need to realize we live in MN and suck it up.

Leave your caged world and really feel life on a bike!

Brian says:

February 14th, 2008 at 9:25 am

Yes, I’m late posting here, but haven’t any of you folks ever heard of plug in block heaters for cars? Put them on a timer to start up a few hours before you normally leave with the car.

At normal winter temps your car will be almost fully warmed up when you start the car. When it is well below zero you won’t get much heat initially, but much better than not using a block heater.

If you or your kids can’t handle a few minutes in a cold car then you probably need to be wearing more clothes. What would happen if your car stalled and you had to wait for help?