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	<title>Comments on: Links: Teen driving, fatalities, transit and more</title>
	<link>http://blogs2.startribune.com/blogs/roadguy/2008/04/29/links-teen-driving-fatalities-transit-and-more/</link>
	<description>Travel along with our transportation geek</description>
	<pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 21:29:42 +0000</pubDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.3</generator>
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		<title>By: DGB</title>
		<link>http://blogs2.startribune.com/blogs/roadguy/2008/04/29/links-teen-driving-fatalities-transit-and-more/#comment-13412</link>
		<dc:creator>DGB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 May 2008 01:46:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blogs2.startribune.com/blogs/roadguy/2008/04/29/links-teen-driving-fatalities-transit-and-more/#comment-13412</guid>
		<description>Matty says: " Thankfully, we’re planning for the present and the future where regions with a diversified mobility system will thrive while auto-centric communities will suffer as the cost of driving continues to climb. "

What a bunch of horse manure!  Hope you choke on it.  

Socialism is alive and well, atleast in your own mind.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Matty says: &#8221; Thankfully, we’re planning for the present and the future where regions with a diversified mobility system will thrive while auto-centric communities will suffer as the cost of driving continues to climb. &#8221;</p>
<p>What a bunch of horse manure!  Hope you choke on it.  </p>
<p>Socialism is alive and well, atleast in your own mind.</p>
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		<title>By: Matty</title>
		<link>http://blogs2.startribune.com/blogs/roadguy/2008/04/29/links-teen-driving-fatalities-transit-and-more/#comment-13372</link>
		<dc:creator>Matty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 May 2008 13:08:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blogs2.startribune.com/blogs/roadguy/2008/04/29/links-teen-driving-fatalities-transit-and-more/#comment-13372</guid>
		<description>P.S. Prof S.- please point out where I suggest that &lt;em&gt;everyone&lt;/em&gt; ought to abandon the car all of the time?  When you realize that you can't, please stop dragging out this tired slur against me.  Thanks.  :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>P.S. Prof S.- please point out where I suggest that <em>everyone</em> ought to abandon the car all of the time?  When you realize that you can&#8217;t, please stop dragging out this tired slur against me.  Thanks.  <img src='http://blogs2.startribune.com/blogs/roadguy/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /></p>
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		<title>By: Prof. S.</title>
		<link>http://blogs2.startribune.com/blogs/roadguy/2008/04/29/links-teen-driving-fatalities-transit-and-more/#comment-13371</link>
		<dc:creator>Prof. S.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 May 2008 12:52:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blogs2.startribune.com/blogs/roadguy/2008/04/29/links-teen-driving-fatalities-transit-and-more/#comment-13371</guid>
		<description>P.S. Matty - Some form of autonomous, controlable, mechanical individual transport will always be with us.  Always.  Sure, it might eventually run on tracks, might run like a slot car, or (more likely) be just like the auto today but with different fuel and more automation.

If you are hoping that everyone will abandon the car someday, you might as well be hoping that we all ride unicorns or magic carpets to work.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>P.S. Matty - Some form of autonomous, controlable, mechanical individual transport will always be with us.  Always.  Sure, it might eventually run on tracks, might run like a slot car, or (more likely) be just like the auto today but with different fuel and more automation.</p>
<p>If you are hoping that everyone will abandon the car someday, you might as well be hoping that we all ride unicorns or magic carpets to work.</p>
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		<title>By: Matty</title>
		<link>http://blogs2.startribune.com/blogs/roadguy/2008/04/29/links-teen-driving-fatalities-transit-and-more/#comment-13367</link>
		<dc:creator>Matty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 May 2008 03:43:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blogs2.startribune.com/blogs/roadguy/2008/04/29/links-teen-driving-fatalities-transit-and-more/#comment-13367</guid>
		<description>How kind of you DGB.  I'd be for razing and burying you and your car, but that would be mean.  If we were building our metropolitan area for the 1950s, your auto-centric vision is what we'd get.  Thankfully, we're planning for the present and the future where regions with a diversified mobility system will thrive while auto-centric communities will suffer as the cost of driving continues to climb.  

The U needs to give up before it wrecks this whole deal.  Catering to cars is a losing scenario for Minnesota and the U should embrace the original design of its campus--a design without a four-lane motorway cutting through its heart.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How kind of you DGB.  I&#8217;d be for razing and burying you and your car, but that would be mean.  If we were building our metropolitan area for the 1950s, your auto-centric vision is what we&#8217;d get.  Thankfully, we&#8217;re planning for the present and the future where regions with a diversified mobility system will thrive while auto-centric communities will suffer as the cost of driving continues to climb.  </p>
<p>The U needs to give up before it wrecks this whole deal.  Catering to cars is a losing scenario for Minnesota and the U should embrace the original design of its campus&#8211;a design without a four-lane motorway cutting through its heart.</p>
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		<title>By: DGB</title>
		<link>http://blogs2.startribune.com/blogs/roadguy/2008/04/29/links-teen-driving-fatalities-transit-and-more/#comment-13362</link>
		<dc:creator>DGB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Apr 2008 19:08:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blogs2.startribune.com/blogs/roadguy/2008/04/29/links-teen-driving-fatalities-transit-and-more/#comment-13362</guid>
		<description>I have lived in numerous larger metro areas.  Mpls/St Paul seems to have been constructed with small in mind.  Small lots, narrow streets.  There are many towns with 6 lane (3 lanes each direction) secondary streets.  These streets serve as alternate routes for the more savvy motorists.

I don't think we can afford to carve up these major secondary roads (University Ave, Washington Ave) with LRT.

I would be for either burying the LRT or razing the buildings on one side of the road - in order to widen the road - for on grade</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have lived in numerous larger metro areas.  Mpls/St Paul seems to have been constructed with small in mind.  Small lots, narrow streets.  There are many towns with 6 lane (3 lanes each direction) secondary streets.  These streets serve as alternate routes for the more savvy motorists.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think we can afford to carve up these major secondary roads (University Ave, Washington Ave) with LRT.</p>
<p>I would be for either burying the LRT or razing the buildings on one side of the road - in order to widen the road - for on grade</p>
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		<title>By: barryS</title>
		<link>http://blogs2.startribune.com/blogs/roadguy/2008/04/29/links-teen-driving-fatalities-transit-and-more/#comment-13361</link>
		<dc:creator>barryS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Apr 2008 18:26:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blogs2.startribune.com/blogs/roadguy/2008/04/29/links-teen-driving-fatalities-transit-and-more/#comment-13361</guid>
		<description>Building it "right"; it would seem; - is unfortunately the most costly method (tunnel under Wash. Ave).  

I'm not opposed to the Northern Alignment anymore... mostly because I see two things playing out:

Step 1. One day after Central Corridor opens with the Northern Alignment, Minnesota and the UofM give the finger to the Feds and build the &#38;*&#38;@#$! tunnel anyway - using state funds.

Step 2. the Northern Alignment is extended along the of U of M transitway to the St Paul campus, the State Fairgrounds and north-easterly points beyond.

Why do I think this would happen? Because the UofM doesn't see the "transit mall" as a temporary solution.  It's (rightly or wrongly) an all or nothing situation in their opinion. If the traffic mitigation is successful, they would never get a tunnel under Wash Ave. But if they 'redirect' to the Northern Alignment - they can come back at any time and say - screw Uncle Sam - let's build that tunnel now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Building it &#8220;right&#8221;; it would seem; - is unfortunately the most costly method (tunnel under Wash. Ave).  </p>
<p>I&#8217;m not opposed to the Northern Alignment anymore&#8230; mostly because I see two things playing out:</p>
<p>Step 1. One day after Central Corridor opens with the Northern Alignment, Minnesota and the UofM give the finger to the Feds and build the &amp;*&amp;@#$! tunnel anyway - using state funds.</p>
<p>Step 2. the Northern Alignment is extended along the of U of M transitway to the St Paul campus, the State Fairgrounds and north-easterly points beyond.</p>
<p>Why do I think this would happen? Because the UofM doesn&#8217;t see the &#8220;transit mall&#8221; as a temporary solution.  It&#8217;s (rightly or wrongly) an all or nothing situation in their opinion. If the traffic mitigation is successful, they would never get a tunnel under Wash Ave. But if they &#8216;redirect&#8217; to the Northern Alignment - they can come back at any time and say - screw Uncle Sam - let&#8217;s build that tunnel now.</p>
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		<title>By: DGB</title>
		<link>http://blogs2.startribune.com/blogs/roadguy/2008/04/29/links-teen-driving-fatalities-transit-and-more/#comment-13352</link>
		<dc:creator>DGB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Apr 2008 16:33:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blogs2.startribune.com/blogs/roadguy/2008/04/29/links-teen-driving-fatalities-transit-and-more/#comment-13352</guid>
		<description>When the solution to a problem (transit) is to destroy (create a transit mall) the current system ( auto's on Washington Ave) - which is used by 95% of the citizens - this is totally without logic.

I have attended several major Universities.  They all have their "college avenues".  It's easy access for parents, visitors, out of state people, etc.  Additionally the streets ajacent to the University are inadequate, confusing, don't connect, poorly laid out, and abutt the Mississippi River.  

To close Washington Ave to autos is just plain stupid.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When the solution to a problem (transit) is to destroy (create a transit mall) the current system ( auto&#8217;s on Washington Ave) - which is used by 95% of the citizens - this is totally without logic.</p>
<p>I have attended several major Universities.  They all have their &#8220;college avenues&#8221;.  It&#8217;s easy access for parents, visitors, out of state people, etc.  Additionally the streets ajacent to the University are inadequate, confusing, don&#8217;t connect, poorly laid out, and abutt the Mississippi River.  </p>
<p>To close Washington Ave to autos is just plain stupid.</p>
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		<title>By: Prof. S.</title>
		<link>http://blogs2.startribune.com/blogs/roadguy/2008/04/29/links-teen-driving-fatalities-transit-and-more/#comment-13345</link>
		<dc:creator>Prof. S.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Apr 2008 13:09:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blogs2.startribune.com/blogs/roadguy/2008/04/29/links-teen-driving-fatalities-transit-and-more/#comment-13345</guid>
		<description>K Anderson - Look at the comments to the post on Metro Transit ridership.  You'll see I completely agree with your position.

David - experts almost inevitably conclude what you want them to conclude.  I am willing to bet a significant amount of money that the U's study will show that the northern route is the best.

As for Washington being a through street or not, I somewhat disagree.  As a downtown resident, I've used Washington to get to places right there on campus or immediately to the east of it.  Also, once the new stadium is up, you'll see all sorts of increased traffic through there.  

Furthermore, as the U has pointed out, creation of the transit mall will have a material negative impact on the businesses (such as the hospital) in the area.  I hosted my wedding reception at Coffman Union and it was hard enough trying to get people there (most of whom were from outstate or another state).  I can't imagine having a transit mall muck it up worse.

I continue to think that the northern route is the best overall option and one that addresses the highest number of concerns.

Let's not build it cheap because we can.  Let's build it right because we should.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>K Anderson - Look at the comments to the post on Metro Transit ridership.  You&#8217;ll see I completely agree with your position.</p>
<p>David - experts almost inevitably conclude what you want them to conclude.  I am willing to bet a significant amount of money that the U&#8217;s study will show that the northern route is the best.</p>
<p>As for Washington being a through street or not, I somewhat disagree.  As a downtown resident, I&#8217;ve used Washington to get to places right there on campus or immediately to the east of it.  Also, once the new stadium is up, you&#8217;ll see all sorts of increased traffic through there.  </p>
<p>Furthermore, as the U has pointed out, creation of the transit mall will have a material negative impact on the businesses (such as the hospital) in the area.  I hosted my wedding reception at Coffman Union and it was hard enough trying to get people there (most of whom were from outstate or another state).  I can&#8217;t imagine having a transit mall muck it up worse.</p>
<p>I continue to think that the northern route is the best overall option and one that addresses the highest number of concerns.</p>
<p>Let&#8217;s not build it cheap because we can.  Let&#8217;s build it right because we should.</p>
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		<title>By: Art Vandelay</title>
		<link>http://blogs2.startribune.com/blogs/roadguy/2008/04/29/links-teen-driving-fatalities-transit-and-more/#comment-13343</link>
		<dc:creator>Art Vandelay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Apr 2008 02:33:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blogs2.startribune.com/blogs/roadguy/2008/04/29/links-teen-driving-fatalities-transit-and-more/#comment-13343</guid>
		<description>I'm not an architect, but I pretend to be :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not an architect, but I pretend to be <img src='http://blogs2.startribune.com/blogs/roadguy/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /></p>
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		<title>By: Curmudgeon Geographer</title>
		<link>http://blogs2.startribune.com/blogs/roadguy/2008/04/29/links-teen-driving-fatalities-transit-and-more/#comment-13342</link>
		<dc:creator>Curmudgeon Geographer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Apr 2008 02:14:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://blogs2.startribune.com/blogs/roadguy/2008/04/29/links-teen-driving-fatalities-transit-and-more/#comment-13342</guid>
		<description>I absolutely do not trust the assessments on how much it will cost to run rail on the aging Washington Ave. bridge. As soon as construction begins I predict that we will learn of "unforeseen" issues with bridge that will require extra money be found to do it right and safely.

I'm just sayin' . . .</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I absolutely do not trust the assessments on how much it will cost to run rail on the aging Washington Ave. bridge. As soon as construction begins I predict that we will learn of &#8220;unforeseen&#8221; issues with bridge that will require extra money be found to do it right and safely.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m just sayin&#8217; . . .</p>
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