‘Who’s more annoying?’ — scenic highway version
Posted on June 12th, 2008 – 6:05 AMBy Roadguy
So, here’s a peeve of mine — the unnecessarily bunched-up pack of cars on a scenic rural road:
For a while, I was stuck between the first car and the second car. Car 2 was, as they say, crawling up my butt, apparently in the hope that doing so would somehow make Car 1 go faster. I was in a leisurely mode after a full day of work in Winona, so I opted to pull over and let Cars 2 and 3 get past me. That way, Car 2 could pointlessly but directly crawl up the butt of Car 1, and I could keep a safe following distance.
So, today’s quiz show topic is “Who’s More Annoying?” The contestants:
Car 1: A law-abiding citizen, this driver went at or below the speed limit for many miles on a curvy road with few or no spots to pass. Never engaged in risky behavior, never pulled over to allow faster vehicles to get past.
Car 2: Unwilling to accept his fate stuck behind Car 1, he apparently had no ability to learn, as the butt-crawling never worked, yet he persisted.
Car 3: A large vehicle with the longest stopping distance, it had nothing to gain by riding closely behind Car 2.
And, of course, all the bunching up didn’t get anyone to his/her destination faster — at the stoplight in Prescott, leisurely Roadguy ended up right behind the white truck.
Share your thoughts, ventilations and judgments below.
74 Responses to "‘Who’s more annoying?’ — scenic highway version"
If I were in Car 2, I really be peeved with the driver of Car 3. There’s only so much you can do in that situation.
However, a bigger pet peeve of mine is when Car 1 is inconsistent with their speed. I’ve seen that happen VERY often when a driver is going slow. It’s not just that they’re going slow — it’s that their speed is yo-yoing by as much as 10 mph, and sometimes for no apparent reason. If they keep their speed consistent, I can pace them and keep my distance assuming I can’t get around them, but that’s not possible when speeds bounce up and down.
I got behind one driver once who continued to step on the brakes, again for no apparent reason, between towns on straight-aways at various times while I was following them. It made for a dangerous situation, and after about the 15th time their brake lights came on (and I’m not exaggerating that count), I honked my horn at them. I know, not very Minnesota nice, but my patience was shot.
I’ve been in all three cars’ position. I don’t butt-crawl. And when I’m #1, if I’m lost or just enjoying the scenery, I do what Roadguy did–I pull over and let the other cars by. No need to slow them down. I think they’re all a little bit at fault.
I share the pet-peeve of bunched up cars as the photo illustrates, except I use a more colorful term for ‘butt-crawl’. I like to say Car #2 is giving Car #1 a colonoscopy. My car is only four years old. Far too young for such a procedure so get off my rear.
All three cars are being stupid. Car #1 needs to push down on the accelerator and haul it or pull off and let them all pass. The scenery isn’t going anywhere. It’ll be there tomorrow.
Car #2 should realize Car #1 isn’t going to go any faster and enjoy the scenery because they certainly aren’t going to be able to legally pass until the next available point.
Car #3, the vehicle that is twice the size and four times the weight, is going to try to throw said weight around to get the other two Matchbox cars moving with some form of intimidation. I’ve had SUV’s and trucks nose up to trunk of my car a number of times. I like to see how long it takes for them to back off or move to the open lane. Yes, I’m dispicable.
I’ve also found I’ve needed to drive with my horn more nowadays than before. “Minnesota Nice” is just a red herring. Never been any such thing. There are plenty of drivers who are so self-absorbed in their cell phone conversations or dealing with their little Germ Urchins (tranquilizers will drop them like rocks and make your time in the car better without the need of the in-car DVD player) or just have that ‘holier-than-thou’ mentality that they need a little fire lit from the car horn behind them.
*honk*
#1 is the most annoying.
#1 is acting selfish and imposing costs (lost time) on #2 and #3. Absent an actual crash (which is unlikely), #2 and #3 do not cause any costs on #1. They may put #1 in more risk, but #1 must take at least some of the blame for that (since he knows that these cars want to get past him, but drives in a selfish manner instead).
I’ve actually been in this situation quite often when driving up north (for my job - before I get snide comments). I’ve had to ride cars not to encourage them to speed up, but to be able to pass at the first instance. I’ve also been Car #2 - knowing that Car #3 was riding me because he wanted to go past both of us as soon as he could.
Car #1 is within their rights and posing no hazard to good drivers. It is probably saving fuel and the environment by driving more leisurely. The others are a problem. If they have no intention of passing they should lay back, enjoy the drive, and allow others the opportunity to pass.
Have these people ever thought of what 60 mph versus 55 mph really means in their life. If you are traveling 30 miles it is only a 3 minute time saving and as pointed out by the author, a stoplight can even that up. Sorry to say but there are a lot of selfish, unthinking people on the roads.
Driver #1 is most annoying. If they did as Roadguy, the other two would be on their merry way, and the situation would resolve itself. Not to say the others aren’t annoying either, but Car #1 does have the choice of whether to let #2 or #3 tailgate them.
Prof. S. - what is the correct speed car #1 should go? What if you unknowingly become car #1 and someone is riding your bumper because he thinks you’re the selfish one?
For those in a rush, car 1 might be ‘annoying,’ …But, for safety and courtesy, it’s the LEAST annoying.
If this were a big wide interstate, that would be different. It’s a curvy, two-lane, where a lotta deadly crashes can happen.
If car 1 pulls over, that’s nice, but it could be more dangerous. He would be safer going 55mph than zero.
And the shoulder of these country roads are used by pedestrians, bike riders, farmers, etc.
If time is money, then I would go for the interstate.
Car #1 is saving cars 2 and 3 money. Every story in the news lately mentions the fact that vehicles get better mileage at 55mph than at higher speeds.
For car #1, if you can’t or don’t want to drive the speed limit on a 2-lane road, that’s fine, but at least have the courtesy to pull over from time to time and let others pass. For car #3, what’s #2 supposed to do, drive over #1? Either pass or back off.
A pet peeve of mine is RV drivers especially out west driving 10-20 mph below the speed limit on the 2-lane roads who never ever turn out. They couldn’t care less if they have 50 cars behind them. If they’re out for a leisurely drive, then the rest of the world must, too.
Driver #2 is most scary because of its high aggression mixed with its inability to know how to pass properly.
Is the picture showing raindrops? It looks like the road is pretty dry. A road is most slippery at the beginning of a rain, perhaps car #1 is aware of this and changed its driving accordingly. Perhaps Car #2 and #3 saved a lot of money by not going into the ditch due to high speeds on an oil slicked wet road.
How is simply following the rules being selfish?
Car #1 is doing nothing wrong and should not pull over.
It’s a road; not a race track.
Barry, I once was pulling a trailer in an old car on slippery roads and had to drive much slower than other traffic. While I agree it’s not always safe to pull over on the highway, every town I got to I pulled over to let those behind me pass.
I prefer car #1.
Cars #2 and #3 are equally annoying and are acting selfishly, placing car #1 and everyone else on the road at risk.
If car #1 pulls off to the side of the road to let cars 2 and 3 pass, then car #1 is bearing the full lost time costs.
Pulling a car to the side of a highway for any reason is a safety risk and it’s unfair to ask car #1 to do that just because someone else wants to drive faster.
Arguing that cars 2 and 3 are incurring lost time costs because they are unable to exceed the speed limit is only valid if you assume that speed limits are arbitrary and that following them provides no benefits.
Ed, I think you did the right thing. I just don’t think car 1 should be forced to pull over on a 90-degree curve, just because one or two cars behind are giving him the horn or a ‘colonoscopy.’
There are enough big freeways around that can handle 80mph–this little country road is not one of ‘em.
Barry, agree. I think we’re both saying pretty much the same thing: Be courteous.
If you’re driving slower than normal, pull over when you can and it’s safe. If you’re driving faster than normal, don’t bother others. Either pass or back off.
So, people are blaming car #1 for obeying the speed limit, eh?
That’s ridiculous.
Prof S. once again, you need to figure out that the world does not revolve around your and your precious “Time is money” mentality. Deal with it and get over yourself.
Sheesh.
Last time I checked there wasn’t a big freeway to Winona so through traffic and scenic traffic are both stuck on the same road. The North Shore Drive is another example of this. Probably the best situation is to build a high speed road parallel to and away from the scenic route, as was done on the North Shore Drive between Duluth and Two Harbors and is being discussed for portions of US 61 between.
I always drive the speed limit but when I’m on a two lane road I’ll pull over every 10 miles or so conditions permitting to let traffic by. In Washington state it’s a law to pull over if there are more than a certain number of cars behind you.
People who think that car #1 is the most annoying are the most annoying.
If he’s following the speed limit and obeying the traffic laws he has a right to drive without being hassled for not wanting to break the law or drive unsafely.
Acting selfish by taking up exactly as much of the road as he’s entitled to? Give me a freaking break. By that logic everyone on the road is being selfish simply by using it. Prof S, grow up and realize that other human beings using the same road as you is part of the fixed time cost of travel. I have no problem with complaining if another car is traveling consistently below the limit, but to say that a car traveling the speed limit is being selfish is absurd.
I’ve been in all three places in that chain of cars and I realize that two lane roads with limited passing opportunities are going to result in some “butt riding” I always try to assist cars in passing me by keeping an eye out for passing zones and adjusting my speed to help them get past quickly and safely, but pull over and stop because some jerk doesn’t think I’m going fast enough? Screw that idea.
Botski: No raindrops, just lots of murdered bugs.
Also, fyi, I pulled over at an intersection, so as to give myself more room to get out of the way without having to drive on the shoulder.
My son (a new driver) has been told that he is responsible for paying any tickets he receives as well as paying the jump in insurance premiums that will be imposed for a violation on record. He tries to do the right thing legally BUT he complains that driving the speed limit he constantly is being tailgated no matter what lane he is in. He asks me what he should do - speed up and risk getting ticketed down the road? How many times does he have to pull over to let the tailgaters go by? Might as well park it then…
On a side note an officer acquaintance told me that he is occasionally tailgated driving his unmarked squad - he says the tailgaters find out how much full of FAIL that can be.
Pete says: Car #1 is saving cars 2 and 3 money. Every story in the news lately mentions the fact that vehicles get better mileage at 55mph than at higher speeds. - But if they cost them more in time, then it’s a net loss for those people.
Dave G says: Prof S. once again, you need to figure out that the world does not revolve around your and your precious “Time is money” mentality. Deal with it and get over yourself.
Time IS money. It is. That’s why we drive Dave. If we were ONLY concerned about money (and never time) we’d walk everywhere (since it’s free). You could spend 2 hours walking into work and 2 hours walking back, and still have plenty of time to get other stuff done at home - all to save a few bucks in gas and parking. If time isn’t money, why do people ever turn down extra shifts or overtime? How people miss this very basic point is beyond me.
Take my example, in which I was “on the clock” so to speak. I had about a 250 mile drive, which I made multiple times. If I averaged 70 instead of 55 (which I could do on the flat roads on the route I took), it was nearly an hour shorter - (4.5 hours v. 3.5 hours). This means real world dollars saved to my customer, which is charged far less because I spent less time on the clock. Multiply it by the several round trips I took up there and we’re talking thousands of dollars.
I really like the wisconsin solution, with the passing lanes on the scenic highways every 10 miles or so.
Even that can be amusing, especially when the slow guy speeds up when in the passing lane, then slows down when in the single tracks again.
But still, those lanes save a bunch of frustration. Wish MN would do that.
What is slow anyhow, the speed limit? I get much better mileage at 58 than 70. If I got time to burn, I slow down, though the guy behind me might be getting paid by the hour.
Intimidation is not the right tactic. Forcing the people ahead of you to bunch up creates problems because it makes it more difficult for people coming up from behind to pass. That works alright on an Interstate where people typically peel off from the tail end of a line toward the front, but that’s no good on a 2-lane highway (I can pass two or maybe three cars at once, but no way am I going to attempt eight or ten all at once).
I agree with the idea that cars behind should either back off or pass. Granted, sometimes you have to stay fairly close to be ready to take a passing opportunity, but many folks nearly grind bumpers and often have little intention of passing, which isn’t necessary.
To all or say #1 has no fault, we ALL know that if #1 doesn’t do anything, #2 & #3 will feel just fine about being stuck behind #1 and drive within the laws for the rest of their lives!!! We all WIN!!
I lived in Ireland, and the roads there are all 2 lane rural roads. EVERYONE pulls over for someone wanting to pass or drive faster. I have never seen so much courtesy driving in my life. If only we were all nicer to each other . . .
Keep in mind the speed limit is an Upper Limit, not a Lower Limit. Most highways have a 55mph max and a 40mph minimum. So car #1 could be cheerfully driving along at 41mph and be perfectly fine.
I say this as a reformed butt crawler. Slow people used to be my biggest driving pet peeve. After a while I realized that no matter how fast I drive there’s always going to be somebody going slower in front of me and always going to be somebody who thinks I’m not going fast enough.
I also realized that the extra 5-10mph I was trying to drive was not much of a net time save and it just wasn’t worth the aggravation. Slow down, you’ll enjoy the ride more.
Schedule The Parade says, “what is the correct speed car #1 should go?” Interesting Question.
Even if Car #1 was going 10-15 miles over the speed limit, Cars 2 & 3 would still drive in the manner that they are.
I don’t know how many times I’ve been driving over the speed limit and the vehicle behind me is upset because I’m not driving faster.
Intimidating the driver in front of you is not the answer. That results in road rage.
“Who’s more annoying?”
There is not enough data available to answer the question. If car 1 is varying its speed, perhaps it is doing so because the driver feels they cannot corner safely at the same speed they attain on the straights. This is not necessarily ‘annoying’ behavior.
Really, though, the problem is that so few people are willing to do what roadguy and esayer are talking about. If somebody’s riding your bumper, you can either get righteously indignant about following the rules & the other guy not - or you can just let them buy to seek their own speed. Nothing feels better than letting a tailgater by & passing them later when they’re pulled over by law enforcement. Give them a chance to let you feel some schadenfreude.
Whether this scenario occurs on a scenic highway in the middle of nowhere or on an urban highway makes no difference. It’s a very simple rule, really; do not impede traffic! You have no way of knowing why the person behind you wants to drive faster than you do. Maybe they’re late for something. Maybe they need to go to the bathroom - bad. Maybe they’re trying to get somewhere for a medical emergency. Maybe they’re fleeing the scene of a crime. The point is, by not pulling over at the earliest opportunity to let them pass, you are being an ass and deserve any intimidation you feel if they are tailgating you. Some drivers slow down because they’re afraid, enjoying the scenary, or to be fuel efficient. All the more power to them, but you have NO RIGHT to intentionally impede traffic (it’s actually illegal). If you find yourself frequently in that situation, perhaps YOU are the one in the wrong - no matter how self-righteous you may feel about your driving.
Car #1 is the most annoying, and is the cause of the problem. Totally unaware that he’s holding up traffic? We drive because we want to get somewhere - as quick and safely as possible. Driving is not a sightseeing excursion.
I agree that #1 is the most annoying. People are assuming they are going the speed limit. Mostly I am stuck behind people going under the speed limit, often by alot. If you can not go the speed limit in good conditions it is time to turn over the license. Sorry but true.
Minnesota Drivers are Tailgating morons and should have there liscenses taken away for reckless driving by this stupid intimidation style of driving. The reason they have only 2 and 4 lane highways unlike everywhere else is because they haven’t graduated to more lanes. You have to be able to drive on 4 lane highways before you can move up to 6 and 8 lanes. The other day I saw a Geo Metro tailgating a semi. How bout a person tailgating a motorcycle. I say take away there right to drive a car and make them ride a scooter and get pushed around a bit and see how they feel being intimidated. How bout making people have there phone numbers for there liscense plate number. Moron Sotan drivers
Given the way Roadguy described the situation, it’s a toss-up between #1 and #2.
For #2, if you’re less than half-a-car length behind the car in front, you’re *WAY TOO CLOSE*. This happened to me this morning.
For #1, and to answer the question of what’s the proper speed, if there’s nobody behind you, it doesn’t matter. If there are people behind you, the proper speed is a CONSISTENT speed. And in good weather and in daylight, there’s no reason not to go the speed limit.
Speed variability irks me far more than those who go at or under the limit (as long as the latter are keeping a consistent speed).
I see, and am in, all three cases on a daily basis…(12.5 mile commute, mostly on a 2-lane rural road).
Monte hinted at it with Washington state (though in their case it has to be a designated stretch of shoulder), but there are other states that require slow drivers to pull over if a certain number of vehicles are waiting behind them. Virginia is one that comes to mind.
Lastly, I thank Roadguy for having the courtesy to pull over.
I like to wait till the tailgaters are drinking out of a coffee cup and then I slam on my breaks for them
“Driving is not a sightseeing excursion.”
DGB is apparently unfamiliar with the ’sunday drive’, or saturday night cruisin’. Dude, it has been part of our culture for at least 50 years to drive merely for the sake of driving.
Then when you get the chance to pass the moron in car #1 will speed up. But I solved that with twin turbos - they are but a speck in the rearview mirror.
I agree with Melissa: if you can’t drive the speed limit, it’s time to turn in your license.
Question: Who is the most annoying? Answer: All three are annoying, who cares to what degree?
Most annoying to me - anyone who cannot and does not get the concept that the road is a shared commons and that not everyone is going to use the road and their car/bike/tractor/semi/etc on that road in the same manner and thus thinks that everyone else should get off the road or get out of their way.
Your trip is most assuredly not the most important trip happening on any given road on any given day - EVER. Unless you are in a life and death situation; shut your cryhole and deal with it like an adult. Roadguy had the right idea, don’t like what’s going on - pull over for 60 seconds and let the idiots go by.
For every car where you point out a “bad driver” - there are five other drivers in cars pointing at you.
We are all bad drivers! The worst driver in the world is the one you see in the mirror every day. Accept it.
Tailgaters, by far are the most annoying and dangeous drivers.
I’m really sick of people who proclaim by their actions that their time is more valuable than mine, or anyone else’s.
Ha ha ha ha ha ha I have actually tried this pulling over idea and then 3seconds later the next moron sotan starts tail gating me. I have pulled over 2 x on my way home in one trip both when I was going 5-10 mph over the speed limit and both times was greeted by the next moron sotan. I don’t have time to pull over every 10 minutes or so on my way hoome each day. I did the smart thing though I bought a truck with a big bumper a tow hitch and if someone hits me I will surely laugh at the damage the other drivers vehicle sustains
Wow, how poignant. I just started driving a little slower and I’m worried about my trip to Winona this weekend, since there are several spots where it is two lanes - one lane in each direction.
I think #2 is the most annoying. If they are NOT passing the person in front of them, by tailgating they are making it harder for drivers behind them to pass both cars when possible. #3 isn’t doing this if there’s nobody behind them. When you finally get into a passing zone on a two-lane road, its very difficult to pass a caravan of cars.
Whatever happened to the crazy lady that fictitously was thrown to the groundby a fictitous person whom did it was never fictitously caught
Prof S. I would agree with the idea of not impeding traffic, except that your definition of “impeding traffic” would seem to be “driving less then 15mph over the speed limit or getting in my way for even a second, whichever comes first.”
As long as I’m using common sense and not breaking the law, I have the right to use the road too, and I will not be intimidated, nor will I be swayed by arguments like “They might have to pee really bad.” or “They might have a medical emergency or be rushing to the hospital.” (driving while distraught is a very bad idea, get someone else to drive you.) I drive the speed limit and allow cars to pass whenever possible in passing zones, but I’m not going to pull over for every lead foot who thinks their business is the most important thing ever. As another poster pointed out, I would be pulling over every ten minutes or so on many roads.
If using the road in a safe and sane manner seems selfish to you, then I can live with that, I really really can.
It’s interesting how many people want to justify their poor driving habits. How do we define “proper driving”? Is it following the rules established by the state? Or is it whatever we THINK other drivers should do?
Here’s to Roadguy for pulling over. Car #1 is driving within the law (the speed limit or within less than 10 mph under the speed limit). Therefore, car 2 and car 3 are not only breaking the law (following too close), they are creating an unsafe situation for all three cars.
In defensive driving school they teach that if you are behind someone and can’t speed up and someone is tailgating you, the safest thing to do is slow down to create a greater breaking distance between the car in front of you and yourself. This way you can compensate for the too little distance between the moron behind you.
I’ve got news for many of you…the road is NOT just for you! It’s for all of us to get to where we want to go SAFELY.
I just find it amusing that people who haven’t mastered simple spelling rules like to call me and my fellow drivers “Moron sotans.” Mee and Jimmy Bee, I’m looking at you.
Thanks Erin I will bet the article and all the complaining on it are about people like you. Keep driving real close and see who you make mad one day they might not be nice like me.
Betcha a fiver that #3 has a headlight blindingly out of alignment.
botski here lets ask. Erin do you have a headlight blindingly out of alignment?
Nope sweetie, I don’t. And I don’t generally tailgate. Sorry to disappoint.
FINALLY, a topic that brings us back to why I enjoyed this blog so much.
Here’s my two cents: 1st of all, I disagree with anyone who says that driving to get from point A to point B is the only reason to drive, and that it must be done at nothing less than the speed limit. I drive that road (I’m assuming from RG’s mention of Prescott that it’s Wisconsin Hwy 35) all the time. We love to take trips down to Pepin, Alma, Trempealeau, etc. The scenery is incredible, and the small towns, with all their quaint shops and old buildings, are awesome, like stepping back in time.
I like to take my time. I may only drive 40 or 50 mph in spots. That said, I am also aware that this road, as rustic as it may seem, is a fairly well-traveled Wisconsin State highway (so much for Mee’s MN drivers rant. Stupid Cheesehead drivers), and as such I do as Roadguy did and pull over as often as necessary to allow others to pass. (as a side note, the shoulders in the pic look very safe for briefly pulling over). All too often it seems people in this situation (#1) don’t know what their mirrors are for and are oblivious to the traffic backed up behind them.
There is no winner in this scenario. #1 may be well within their rights and the law, but they are still being self-centered jerks for not allowing other traffic to pass. What’s wrong with a little common courtesy? If you’re not in a hurry, why not pull over? Still, I also agree with others who say that #’s 2 & 3 need to accept their fate and back off. Tailgating generally just makes the slow pokes more obstinate.
As for passing lanes, MN does have some, on hwy 12 west of Wayzata. Why there aren’t more throughout the state is anyone’s guess. Probably $$.
O.k. Looks like my two cents turned into dollars. Oh well….
Well said, Morg. Kind of what we supposedly learned in kindergarten: Playing nicely works wonders.
I have driven in the US,and Germany. I see all of the drivers at fault here. Legally car number one if they are obeying the speed limit is doing nothing wrong. This is not an example of holding up traffic, but if everyone behind them is in such a hurry to die than Car #1 should pull over and let them do that. It’s the courteous thing to do. Find a nice and safe spot to do so, please. Car #2 lives in the world that “my time is more important than yours, and I will force you to comply to my views”. The only thing they are doing is following too closely (which is illegal) and making for a very dangerous situation. Sit back and enjoy the ride, or pass safely when you can. The bigger idiot is the person in the White Suburban. Number 1 they are driving a SUV and number 2 they have a greater stopping distance because of size and weight. They are making this situation even more dangerous. Road Guy is smart to stay back. I think it’s funny when I pull up to the next stop of lights on a highway and you are with all the people who drive crazy to save seconds. It’s not worth it, plus it costs more money and stress to drive fast.
Pete2 says: you have NO RIGHT to intentionally impede traffic (it’s actually illegal)
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Ummmm, actually according to my Minnesota State Statutes Traffic Book you do not have the right to impede traffic in certain situations. Car #1 is not doing anything illegal if they are driving the speed limit. Car #2 and Car #3 are breaking the law by following too close, or in your language “tailgating”.
Morg: I don’t think it’s WI 35…that route has gravel shoulders as I recall, not the paved shoulders of the route Roadguy was on.
Second, you’re right in that money is partly why there aren’t more passing lanes. They’re roughly $1.5-2 million a pop. That said, MnDOT has been adding them on routes here and there. US 2 between Grand Rapids and Duluth has several, and MN 7 west towards Hutchinson will have a couple added this year. MN 371 south of Brainerd had a couple (added back in ‘85) before they finally 4-laned the whole thing a few years ago.
Am I seriously sharing the road with all of you people?
Geez.
How did most of you get a license in the first place?
Umm… Stober - look again:
Minn. Stat. s. 169.15
No person shall drive a motor vehicle at such a slow speed as to impede or block the normal and reasonable movement of traffic except when reduced speed is necessary for safe operation or in compliance with law or except when the vehicle is temporarily unable to maintain a greater speed due to a combination of the weight of the vehicle and the grade of the highway.
So - impeding traffic by varying your speed while under the speed limit (i.e. not necessary for being in compliance with law, since you could go faster and still be within the law) is illegal.
The speed limit is a maximum, not a minimum.
And how fast should car 1 be going? If you interpret the law in the way you do, Prof S, everyone would have to either go the exact same speed. Otherwise if I’m going 95 and you’re going 96, you bunch up behind me and I’m apparently impeding traffic with my slow speed.
I don’t think going at or slightly below the speed limit would be interpreted as normal and reasonable movement of traffic, and I doubt you’d find many patrol officers or court judges that would disagree with me.
Now I better understand why 50% of the drivers in MN drive they way they do. Tailgating, running red lights and stop signs, excessive speed, failure to yield all make me appreciate the comment on how did these people A) get a license, and B) keep it…. I drive to my cabin on the highway of death US 8, through Chisago Lakes, and witness the type of situation described all the time. Would I like to get to my cabin earlier? Sure. But 5-10 minutes is not going to kill me. Tailgating might….
Prof S. - I’m not sure your interpretation of Minn. Stat. s. 169.15 is accurate. My take of “No person shall drive a motor vehicle at such a slow speed as to impede or block the normal and reasonable movement of traffic except when reduced speed is necessary for safe operation or in compliance with law…”
Isn’t “compliance with law” the speed limit, as well as 10 mph under the speed limit?
Roadguy stated, car #1 “went at or below the speed limit for many miles on a curvy road.” As long as they were within 10 mph under the limit, it seems their driving behavior was “legal”, albeit annoying to some.
It seems that our increasingly “it’s all about me” culture is also increasingly evident on the roads.
“Sure. But 5-10 minutes is not going to kill me.”
Dude, it’s all about the cost. TEH COST!!!!!11!1!11!
I would concede that the “…in compliance with the law…” statute would be interpreted to mean driving the speed limit, but hardly 10mph under it. Assuming car #1 was actually driving below the speed limit, it was guilty of impeding traffic. And yes, that includes driving 1mph below the limit. Most drivers are quite capable of driving above the speed limit, and do. If they are 1mph over the limit, it would negate car #1’s culpability in this situation; otherwise, car #1 is impeding traffic and violating the law. Car #1 should have pulled over at its earliest convenience. Cars #2 and 3 should have been patient and waited for their opportunity to pass. If car 1 did not pull over when it could - the other two were, in the court of public opinion, well within their right to ride 1’s bumper. I belive most drivers will be patient and tolerant with you, until you behave like a selfish ass. Then, as far as I’m concerned, you deserve any derision you get.
Botski: If you want to debate the “cost” then equate the cost of each vehicle’s gas mileage at speed driven. It’s provent that higher speeds = lower gas mileage. Also, factor in the cost of a ticket starting at $140 for speeding and the potential cost of an accident or loss of life. Driving is a privelege not a right and if people would remember that, they might not decide to drive like flippin idiots…
JBD….add in the increased insurance costs for a ticket and/or accident, possible lost income, car repair if not fully insured, health costs. etc. and the “cost” is substantial. I agree with you. The “cost” of 5 to 10 minutes is negligible and is typically passed on to the consumer. Some here want us to believe they “speed” to save their customers money…PUH-LEEZE!!!
According to the state police, Pete, “impeding traffic does NOT include traveling a a legal speed. If a driver is going 5 miles under the speed limit, they will NOT be cited for impeding traffic. However, the “tailgaters” WILL be ticketed.
Pete, you scare me. Hope you are just saying all that for a little Friday-the-13th fun…
Last time I checked the MN Drivers Manual, I did not see anything stating you have the ‘right to ride one’s bumper.’
Did the rules change? Do they teach tailgating in ‘defensive driving’ classes?
After reading the many different views, I contend, “common sense is relative”. Therefore, the laws must prevail.
Prof. S. says:
June 13th, 2008 at 8:03 am
Umm… Stober - look again:
Minn. Stat. s. 169.15
No person shall drive a motor vehicle at such a slow speed as to impede or block the normal and reasonable movement of traffic except when reduced speed is necessary for safe operation or in compliance with law or except when the vehicle is temporarily unable to maintain a greater speed due to a combination of the weight of the vehicle and the grade of the highway.
So - impeding traffic by varying your speed while under the speed limit (i.e. not necessary for being in compliance with law, since you could go faster and still be within the law) is illegal.
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Ummm, No, once again. Driving below the speed limit is not illegal even if you are adjusting speeds. Look it up. Key words here are “reasonable” and “normal”. This law can be argued so many different ways that it would make your head spin. Ultimately it is left to the OFFICER to interpret was is “reasonable” and “normal”. Most freeways have a minimum and maximum speed. You can fluctuate as much as you want on these road as long as you stay within the limits. On a highway there are minimum speeds usually, but they are typically not posted, so you would have to research what the exact rules are in each situation. Yes, I will say a car driving 20 mph in a 55 mph zone or a bicycle taking up a lane of traffic and not letting traffic pass, this would be a clear example of impeding traffic. More often than not in my experiences as an officer it is the idiots who are tailgating and speeding and trying to drive aggressive that have caused the majority of the problems. Car #1 as Roadguy has described by his actions has done absolutely nothing unlawful.
Prof S says:
So - impeding traffic by varying your speed while under the speed limit (i.e. not necessary for being in compliance with law, since you could go faster and still be within the law) is illegal.
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You made this part up. This is not in my traffic code book. This is your interpretation and unless you are a judge or a legislator I guess you are going to have to live with it.
Pete says:
June 13th, 2008 at 12:26 pm
I would concede that the “…in compliance with the law…” statute would be interpreted to mean driving the speed limit, but hardly 10mph under it. Assuming car #1 was actually driving below the speed limit, it was guilty of impeding traffic. And yes, that includes driving 1mph below the limit.
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Once again I reiterate to you “reasonable” and “normal”. Your argument has many flaws. So many flaws that I do not have time to address them all. Driving 1 mph below the speed limit is not “unreasonable” or “unnormal”. No one who is a professional (judge or officer) is going to enforce such an idea.
You could be right, Froggie. I am assuming it’s on the Sconi side of the river because otherwise RG would have had no reason to go thru Prescott on his way back to Mpls, unless he was tending to other business.
Another peeve of mine: drivers who easily catch you on two-lane roads–and then sit on your bumper instead of passing, even when they’ve got a clear view of the opposing lane.
I missed the part about Prescott earlier, so it may well have been WI 35. I just don’t remember shoulders on WI 35, though admittedly it’s been several years since I was last on it north of La Crosse…
As for your other pet peeve, that’s a common sight down here in the Deep South.
I thought RG might have piped in by now for clarification. Another clue that he’s probably in Sconi: the bluffs look like they’re on the right, so the river would be to the left.
Car #2 should pass. If they can’t they should back off. Driving at or near the speed limit is not illegal. If #1 feels like pulling over, they can, but they dont’ have to. Perhaps they are pissed. Perhaps they are laughing at #2 and #3.
Speed is actually the greatest cause of the slaughter on the highways. As Canned Heat used to say, “Speed Kills.” Although that was a song about “Amphetamine Annie.” Maybe speed kills … twice.
Ummm, who took the picture? I sure hope Roadguy didn’t do that while he was also driving? That’s even scarier!
