Conference on the mound… broken bat… grand slam.
Posted on April 8th, 2008 – 8:20 AMBy Howard
The Twins lost in Chicago on Monday because couldn’t close out the White Sox after the offense couldn’t build a substantial enough lead to make the pitchers’ work easier. For those of us watching the game at work (without sound), who kept looking up to see Twins running the bases, it seemed like there should have been more than three runs on the board after six innings — and thus more than a 3-2 lead. Every starter except Adam Everett got a hit, but most of the hits didn’t come at the right time.
That didn’t provide Guerrier and Neshek much margin for error, and Neshek’s failure came as the result of an ugly two-strike swing by Jermaine Dye, who somehow managed to bounce a game-tying single to center, and a broken-bat grand slam by Joe Crede.
Neshek gave up the home run after a visit to the mound from pitching coach Rick Anderson and catcher Joe Mauer. After the game, Neshek told Joe Christensen : “I don’t really like to go inside, but [Mauer] really wanted to go in there. It was up a little. It had a little bit of a tail, where I was really surprised he got that up like that.”
I’m guessing that by the end of today, some will talk about whether or not Neshek was looking to place blame elsewhere for what happened — a/k/a “throwing his teammate under the bus.”
Don’t go there. Folks, this is what happens. Pitchers and catchers talk. Credit Neshek, a stand-up guy in good times and bad, with giving us an insight about what was talked about on the mound — and Joe C. for providing information I couldn’t find elsewhere.
Crede missed most of last season injured and was thought to be in line to lose his job in spring training. Jamming him, in theory, sounds like a smart thing to do.
Pitch doesn’t get inside enough, pitch is a bit up, pitch breaks bat.
Pitch sails in the April jet stream over the left-field wall in a park where things like that happen.
That inning was the kind, with all of its moving parts, that can be dissected endlessly. Had Neshek gotten Crede out, you know we could well be focusing on how he struck out America’s enemy, the muttering and torrid AJ Pierzynski, for the second out of that inning.
Instead, it’s a 3-5 record and an off day.
other people are here too
69 Responses to "Conference on the mound… broken bat… grand slam."
Nicely parsed, Mr. Sinker. : ) Now, how long until someone blames this loss on LNP… ; )
Dibs! If Punto hadn’t distracted Neshek while riding the pine, that ball would have sailed right past Crede.
I know it is way too early to pass judgement on this version of the Twins. While it seems to be business as usual, i.e. inability to string hits together, inability to mix in extra-base hits with all those singles, stranding runners in scoring position with less than two outs, wasting young pitchers’ good or decent starts…it is too early to say this is 2007 revisited. I am still hopeful that the offense will begin to click so that when they are four runs down, the fans still believe the Twins have a chance to come back. But with some decent power hitters on this team, I am starting to wonder if the field management’s approach is all wrong. Many of you who comment in here seem to understand what Gardenhire, Vavra, et al, are trying to convey to the hitters as the Twins’ style of hitting. I do not profess such knowledge. But whatever it has been doesn’t seem to be working too well. Any thoughts on that, Mr. Sinker?
The Twins still operate in that “move them over/productive out” mode of the late 90’s early 00’s. That’s fine if you are say, Adam Everett, but Morneau/Cuddyer/Young/Mauer all need to hit the ball hard. We don’t need 3-run HR’s every time but a double would be nice once in a while. If those guys are the ones “moving them over” who’s going to drive them in?
too many double plays… thats all it is.. i believe like 11 double plays now in the first week? come on… this isnt stringing hits together… its not going into so many freaking double plays…
1st 2nd one out first inning young up… double play inning over…
damn good point Howard.
It’s nice to see the honesty.
I still think Neshak is the most important Minnesotan on the Twins by a lot!
I like Neshek a lot. He’s arguably one of the top 5 most valuable Twins. While I admire his honesty, I’d be willing to bet he’d want to take his comment about Mauer wanting the pitch back. I was a little stunned when I read it, because it did give the appearance of placing blame on a teammate. I’m sure Mauer didn’t appreciate it.
Neshek comment - Don’t you think people are reading way too much into it? He simply stated the thought process that went into the pitch. People want athletes to be honest, and when they are, people jump in em. No win. Is it any wonder most give blah answers?
ds,
My point exactly!
ds and Howard. I agree with you, I like the honesty. But do the players? When Mauer reads the remark, is he going to be pissed?
EVERYONE HATES NESHEK RIGHT NOW!!! though it really wasnt his fault.. it was the winds fault! now stop being so harsh on him its just a ga,ga,ga,ga,ga,ga,ga,GAME.
wow im upset now just like you guys!!! lets go hate neshek.. he lost us a ga,ga,ga,ga,ga,ga,ga,ga,ga,game and now its the end of the world!!!!!! we will never win the playoffs now!!!!!!!! NOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
I wonder how many times in the past Mauer could say “Pat wanted to throw outside put i kept calling for it inside finally he relented and we got the guy out” It goes both ways nothing at all worng with what Pat said.
During the broadcast yesterday, the announcers were talking about the Sox and the hitting coach’s new approach to playing small ball. The announcers said it was helping the big hitters improve because they weren’t focusing on hitting the ball out of the park, they were just trying to get the ball in play. Just a thought for the “swing for the fences” commentators.
Better than the usual cliche athletic blather about ‘letting one get away,’ or ‘you just had to tip your hat to him’ or ‘they just got some good wood on the ball today.’
the twins have way to many baserunners out there all of the time with no bats to bring them in the double play balls are killing them and a good hitter wouldnt hit into one. and as far as i am concerned neshek is just being honest and i like that in a guy who cares what his big baby catcher thinks he is just telling the truth.
My point is that there’s a reason we seldom hear that kind of honesty. Because these ballplayers are a sensitive lot, and easily take offense to one teammate shifting blame to another. Yes it’s refreshing for us fans, but at what cost…Howard brought up the “throwing under the bus” comment because it occurred to him when he read the remark that it might be taken that way. I occurred to me as well before I even read Howard’s post, so I’m sure it occurred to many readers. So Pat should have phrased it differently, such as: “we debated about going inside, but ultimately agreed to give it a shot”. But hey, we all make mistakes I’m sure JM won’t hold a grudge for too long.
There’s the problem right there…Too many people are too sensitive.
I think it actually gives a lot of credit to Mauer - whether he sees it that way is completely his own busines. To me, it says that Mauer calls the pitches and in the end, his pitchers go with his judgement whether it ends up being right or wrong. They trust him and because he’s right WAAAAY more often than he’s wrong, they have great teamwork out there. It’s what makes him one of the best catchers in the game frankly.
EVERYONE HATES NESHEK RIGHT NOW!!!
Uh. No they don’t. Unless a number of people here don’t count as anybody.
This kinda stuff happens. I mean, wasn’t it last year some time when an Angels reliever gave up a three-run blast to Nick Punto to cost them a win?
Neshek is a good pitcher, but even great pitchers make mistakes. The bummer is he made his mistake when there wasn’t any room for error, and Crede went and got it.
As far as what he said about Mauer, there’s nothing wrong there. That’s what happens in baseball. Typically the catcher calls the pitches and the pitcher tires his darndest to put them there.
Mauer called for the pitch, Neshek tried to put it there, and Crede managed to get solid contact.
No controversy here. Move along folks.
People are also ignoring the last comment by Neshak, “the bit of a tail” which suggests to me, “I kind of hung it a little.” Maybe splitting hairs, but I can’t look at this as an under the bus comment too much.
Long run, would it have mattered? Bases juiced, no outs (or was there one) and a single scores two. Twins only got one more anyway.
To put this story in perspective. People hate the white sox, I know I do, so losing in “Grand Slam Fashion” to one of the most overrate “Powerhitters!?” on that line up is really what makes us sick.
And even worse, it was the bullpen, THE SUPPOSED STRENGTH OF THE TEAM, that did it. That’s what really punches you in the stomach.
Well, no use discussing any more, T says we have to move along.
Justin CB,
I just have to tip my hat to you for that comment!
Hoosier,
There were 2 out when Crede hit the homer.
Man, I can’t believe Neshek would throw his teammate under the bus like that. Who does he think he is? Peyton Manning?
Then its not only a punch to the guy, but a follow with a cross to the jaw. Good thing you caught me on that before I took that comment to the water cooler and really got berated by pale hoser that surround me down here.
You know what makes this even worse, A certain player who use to play for the Twins hit 2 HR’s yesterday and one of them was a walk off grand slam. I’m not saying, just saying.
P.S. I was all for trading Hunter during the season last year.
Howard and Justin CB-
Don’t forget
“We just have to overcome adversity”
and
“We’re taking it one game at a time”
and the ever-popular
“It is what it is.”
Check out coomer’s stats he actually as scary as this may sound would make an excellent DH. Compare his stats to Kubels. He has more power and a better avg as well as a better personality.
Is it true that Boof tried smoking astro turf?
Send him down to Rochester!!!
jama we should have received at least something for Hunter. We should have done a sign and trade at the very least
That might explain OOF’s weight issues.
jimmy 2 things:
1. Have you ever heard of a sign in trade in MLB?
2. As I told you yesterday: Go back to bed!
there is nothing ‘finger pointing’ wise going on with Nesheks comments, and I’d bet Mauer didn’t even think twice about what he said if he heard or read the remarks or even blinked an eye. Neshek even said “it was up a little bit”, which to me says he didn’t put it where he wanted it, even if he was surprised crede hit it like he did.
You people who expect the Twins to win the world series every year need to stop looking for anything to bitch about when the team doesn’t meet your inflated expectations. and it was the 8th game of the year for christ sake. Ya, they lost in a situation you would expect them to win, but that happens to every team every year.
Howard couldn’t have said it better:
“Don’t go there. Folks, this is what happens. Pitchers and catchers talk. Credit Neshek, a stand-up guy in good times and bad, with giving us an insight about what was talked about on the mound — and Joe C. credit for providing information I couldn’t find elsewhere.
Crede missed most of last season injured and was thought to be in line to lose his job in spring training. Jamming him, in theory, sounds like a smart thing to do.
Pitch doesn’t get inside enough, pitch is a bit up, pitch breaks bat.
Pitch sails in the April jet stream over the left-field wall in a park where things like that happen.”
I didn’t see the homer, but it sounds like Mauer was right to ask for an inside pitch. Sounds like Crede just got very lucky. Shattered bat, wind aided grand slam?!?!?
I’m not really second guessing, but I thought Gardy would have brought in Reyes to face Thome in the 7th and then have Neshek try to get Konerko for the final out and then pitch the 8th. It sure would be nice if Rincon starts to come around and give us some more options when we have the lead.
Who is actually a better pitcher Boof or Lohse
Uh Keep who exactly are you ripping on i don’t think theres anyone on this blog today who disagreed with Howard.
Too early to write off the season, but the following stats are not surprising based on what little the Twins front office did to “improve” the team:
Twins vs the rest of the American League
4th in Batting Avg
2nd to last-Runs Scored
2nd to last-Slugging %
Tied for last-Home Runs
7th in ERA (middle)
2nd to last in opponents batting average.
Yep…a sub .500 season and more excuses to come from the front office.
What is the chance any of these young “studs” that are coming up through the system can be turned into relievers/closers? If you look at the bullpen right now, there are 3 guys that I see being on this team for more than this year and next. Neshek, Nathan, and Guerrier. Plus those are the only 3 that I have any sort of confidence in right now. The bullpen has been a strength of this team over the last 5-7 years, I would like to see that continue.
Guess I’ll be the lone dissenter here. Major league teams play 162 games together. That’s spending literally half your year or more with the same 20-something other guys. I don’t think there’s another sport where clubhouse “chemistry” is nearly as important as it is in MLB.
If youre the ‘27 Yankees (or maybe even the ‘08 version), you can get by on talent alone, even if your SS and 3B never speak to one another. But a team with little (or no) margin for error had better do everything it can to make sure clubhouse distrations are kept to a minimum.
I agree we all get tired of cliches and a bit of candid honesty is refreshing. But there’s a reason cliches become cliches. You want to avoid even the perception that there’s finger pointing going on… and when the reporters get in to that clubhouse after the off day today, you can bet this is what they’re going to be asking all the players about.
Media savvy ballplayers learn to avoid saying anything that will even possibly be interpreted in a manner that casts a team mate in a negative light. Neshek’s going to have that made clear to him this week from coaches and team mates… count on it.
If they do it right, they’ll use this off-day to all get their stories straight on what everyone’s response is going to be when they’re asked about this… and hope it goes away as a topic quickly.
BC - my comments were kind of out of context for this thread…but they were aimed at people who were bad mouthing Neshek for his comments, there was no “throwing under the bus” of Mauer with his statements.
keep Mauer ( baby Jesus ) is never wrong he could be the next OJ and we would still never say hed ever did anything wrong
If Mauer and Morneau got into a fist fight ever who would people side with. Also is AJ as good as Mauer
Neshek low-balled his ineptitude.
Gladden said the pitch had “‘hit me’ written all over it”.
Dick/Bert said Mauer wanted it low but Neshek missed the target.
I say he missed by one foot and that it was a cookie, a hanger.
I’d rather have A.J. than Mauer. No question about it.
Why did we ever get rid of AJ was it to replace him with someone just equall to him that just so happened to be from minnesota.
sandwich - got any extra of what you’re smoking? I’d definitely like to try it…
“I don’t really like to go inside.” What the hell kind of statement is that. Every good pitcher should be able to go inside when the situation calls for it. I thought his quote sounded ridiculous- and he was definitely pointing a finger.
The issue wasn’t calling for the inside pitch- it was that Neshek put it on a batting tee belt high.
A.J.’s career highs: (7 full MLB seasons)
avg: .312 (.263 last year)
HRs: 18
RBIs: 77
OBP: .360
has thrown out 26% of base stealers in career, most attempts in 1 season: 115.
Joe’s career highs: (3 full MLB seasons)
avg: .347 (first ever C to win MLB batting title remember?)
HRs: 13
RBIs: 84
OBP: .429
has thrown out over 43% of base stealers over his career, most attempts in 1 season: 58.
you are smoking some bunk crack with your thoughts of A.J. being better than Mauer, unless you were just kidding?
I agree with liondragon too many double plays!!!!
if even two of Morneau’s DP’s were hits we might have a winning record right now.
DP’s are bad enough but when they come from the middle of the order it’s a psychological blow to the whole team!
COME ON GUYS PICK UP THE PACE!!
The tope end of AJ’s talent just barely reaches the low end of Mauer’s potential, imho.
That said, we turned AJ into Nathan, Liriano and Bonser, if memory serves.
Not bad when you consider we have nothing left to show for Randy Moss…
… and when the reporters get in to that clubhouse after the off day today, you can bet this is what they’re going to be asking all the players about.
That’s the tragedy more than anything. I don’t think Neshek’s comment was anything off-handed or uncalled for.
But being the hounds they are sometimes (read: ESPN, CNN, FOX)…they’ll take that one comment, analyze it for a day, and force a player to respond one way or another.
Unfortunately that’s what’s happening here. Neshek could make the comment, Mauer could dismiss it, but now that’s all we’re going to hear about for the next week I’d bet.
All Neshek has to do is say “I f–ked up”.
“Mauer was doing his job and I didn’t execute a pitch that I am expected to execute. END OF STORY”
The vultures will then move on to the next carcass.
Keep: Sandwich wants AJ and you puts up stats. I hate to rely on the “You can’t measure heart” cliche but I would guess that’s what he means when preferring AJ over Joe–the intangibles. I am a White Sox fan but I admire the Twins, and getting AJ was the best thing this organization ever did. Without AJ they did not win the World Series. He changed that team to winners. They refused to accept mediocrity. The Twins are a far superior organization to the White Sox in terms of development, but I’m not sure I see Mauer and Morneau as leaders. They seem to me to both be quiet, confident guys who might be leaders by example but do not provide the so-called fire necessary to lead a team. Maybe I’m wrong, but even with their incredible numbers they don’t scare me when they come up to bat. They just don’t. You know who scared me the most all-time? Hunter. And now I’d say Cuddyer. That might sound odd but those guys may not have the baseball pedigree of M and M, but they are just players. You guys are a different team without Hunter. I know you all know that, but I’m just repeating that notion from an outside view. All day yesterday I kept waiting to get nervous–and I realized it was because I was waiting for Hunter to bat. Anyway, this is too long as it is, but may M and M just need to mature. They are very young.
sane, let’s see if that’s how Neshek handles it… and if in fact that becomes the “end of story”. I have my doubts on both counts.
T, it’s fine to cast aspersions at the “hounds” of ESPN, CNN, FOX, etc., but I will be shocked if the local beat reporters don’t press for comments from players and coaches, too. How long and how far will be based on the answers they get (and whether they, in turn, lead to more questions) and how quickly the next “story” presents itself.
Regardless of what his intent was or wasn’t, he made a comment that clearly IS a story. I would be willing to bet that every one of us, when we first read Neshek’s quotes, thought, “whoa… I didnt expect to hear THAT from him.” That makes it a story that reporters are almost obligated to follow up on… and that makes the quote a mistake to have been uttered in the first place.
I wish all the pitchers that I faced would have said out loud “I don’t really like to go inside”.
I could still hit if I could attack the ouside corner without risking getting hit in the neck.
That was an exaggeration.
At this point, I couldn’t the Queen Mary floating through the strike zone.
I think it’s reassuring that Neshek isn’t perfect, and doesn’t claim to be. That would be an insult to the gods.
maybe it could be ,that Crede is a dam good hitter, and maybe we should have went and traded for him, when we had the chance,,,
Okay you guys, it’s totally my fault. No sooner did I say, “My goodness do I love the looks of Neesh’s non-existent ERA” than BAM! Grand salami. I’ll try harder not to jinx next time.
Neshek will replace Wally the beer man when the new stadium opens, book it.
That makes it a story that reporters are almost obligated to follow up on… and that makes the quote a mistake to have been uttered in the first place.
And what’s the answer to make it stop now that it’s started? Does Neshek have to apologize for something that Mauer may not even care about?
Does Mauer have to come out and tell everybody to just lay off Neshek?
I already stated in my first comment what I think they need to do now.
If they do it right, they’ll use this off-day to all get their stories straight on what everyone’s response is going to be when they’re asked about this… and hope it goes away as a topic quickly.
popbelly,
Crede’s a good hitter. The Twins never really had a chance to get him because teams don’t trade within their division.
Sooze,
Methinks Neshek was still thinking about your posse in Section 138 on Saturday — and he was distracted from what he should have been thinking about!
JC,
I write that something isn’t an issue and it becomes one. Just like parenting, eh?
Howard, I took your message to be that this “something” shouldn’t become an issue and I might even agree with that. But if you’re saying it ISN’T an issue or won’t be an issue, that’s where I disagree. And I think that’s what I tried to say.
In fact, the very fact that you felt it warranted a blog entry to tell us it wasn’t an issue would indicate that you felt it probably WOULD be one! 
And even if that doesn’t justify my comments, I’ll just fall back on what the kids said to me all the time…
You’re not the boss of me!
Hey Howard, JC, and LENIII,
whats your gut feeling on Liriano’s timeframe for coming back? Sunday? after another AAA start? after a month?
Mauer is the least of the Twins problems and they are fortunate to have him. Being from outside of Minnesota I guess I am not able to understand the anger that I read on here from many Minnesotans towards Mauer. There must be something I am missing. I see a talented 24 year-old catcher who is still growing and developing.
Mauer, is a very fine hitter,and still growing and developing,,but still lets too many balls over the plate go by, we cant be Minnesota Nice, all the time we still like to call him,little JC, just cuz, we can,,
I write it off to Twins fans, collectively, being just a microcosm of society. We love to annoint heros… and then we love to tear them down.
