Jason Kubel: 4 zillion bloggers can’t be wrong
Posted on April 10th, 2008 – 8:16 AMBy Howard
Hey Gardy,
There’s not much I can add to the discussion here other than to throw my weight around as a blogger who also works in the mainstream media. That makes my opinion count double, right? So here’s the deal: I’ve had your back fairly often when the “Fire Gardy” crowd has acted up and I think that you’re a better manager than most. It’s all the more apparent when a guy like Ozzie is in the other dugout, making sure everyone knows that he’s there and doing things like not having his lefty reliever ready to face your lefty, Jason Kubel, in the sixth last night.
But you gotta take my word on this: Jason Kubel is an everyday player. This is NOT an original thought, or a conclusion arrived at in the giddy aftermath of last night’s grand slam.
The best case for this was made last week by the blogger Aaron Gleeman, on his blog and then repeated at MinnPost. Aaron is the Godfather of the Free Jason Kubel! movement. But it should be pointed out that early last May, Section 220 offered up the radical idea that Kubel should be sent to Rochester so he could swing every day instead of popping off the bench every now and again at your whim. The point at the time was that “Jason Kubel is going to be an important member of the Twins for the years to come” and that sitting him was silly.
Now, Gardy, the point is that Kubel should be in right field every day pending Michael Cuddyer’s return, and then your everyday DH thereafter. Craig Monroe will make a nice 150 at-bat bench player, kind of your Punto-with-a-bat. It’ll make your life a bit easier in a season when you have enough other things to worry about.
other people are here too
80 Responses to "Jason Kubel: 4 zillion bloggers can’t be wrong"
Kubel has played in 8 of the 9 games so far. Gomez is the team leader in AB with 38. Kubel has 26 as a 6 hitter so it’s not like he’s being waisted so far.
But I agree keep playing the guy!
Seth at Sethspeaks has been on the “free Kubel” movement too if memory serves, before gleeman.
After last night, Gardy’s quote in the papers saying he wants to get him more at bats was encouraging.
I agree. Kubel is going to be a big part of this Twins team for quite a while, if he stays healthy. He needs to play everyday.
We have to remember, coming through the minor leagues, Kubel was a top 3 hitting prospect in all of baseball. More highly touted than our resident MVP. Usually those kinds of guys go on to have servicable, if not very productive careers.
Get him the AB’s and the numbers will be there.
With all due respect to Aaron Gleeman, I believe this movement should be officially deemed the “More Kubel!!” movement (pronounced “More Koo-Bell!!”)
Perhaps, for emphasis, we could even hyphenate it. “More KU-BEL!”
Howard, thank you. Finally someone in this paper said the right thing. LaVelle for some reason won’t address this, and it would make the Twins a much better team IMMEDIATELY.
Just watch though, Jason will still get benched against righties so Monroe can “get his at-bats in”.
Keep Jason Kubel Free!
I actually asked Gleeman if he’d wear a “Free Jason Kubel” if I made them….at the end of January.
I laughed at the people who said that Kubel was going to finally break out this year. I thought he was the 21st Century sadness that was Kal Daniels. That kid was going to be a Hall of Famer, but someone forgot to tell him he needed knees. He was out of baseball before he had a chance to be a star. I felt that Kuebel was on the same pace. He HAD a sweet swing, but without knees he just never put it together, but he is looking about 10 lbs lighter, and 3 years younger this season.
Howard,
Amen!!!
I think everyone has been on the Kubel bandwagon for the last year or so. (Except BC of course). I don’t want to get to excited about seeing Kubel everyday until Cuddy comes back, because Gardy could still go back to his old ways of “Platooning”. Once Cuddy comes back and Kubel still DHes everyday over a whole month I will finally feel that Gardy gets it. Until then I feel like Kubel is playing everyday because of injures and he might get yanked once Cuddy comes back.
After he injured his knee it was pretty obvious that Kubel was made to DH. Let’s hope Gardy finally understands this.
I just wrote a play called “We Want Kubel.” Here it is:
(Angry mob stands protesting outside 34 Kirby Puckett Place)
Guy with bullhorn: What do we want?!
Angry Mob: Jason Kubel, in the lineup every day!
Guy with bullhorn: When do we want it?!
Angry Mob: NOW!!
Howard — there’s this neat newspaper in town called the StarTribune — check it out. It had this quote from Gardenhire in it today:
“He had a big night,” Gardenhire said of Kubel, who finished with six RBI. “I’ve always said, I really believe this guy can hit. And you know what? He’s going to get plenty of opportunities this year. He had 450 [plate appearances] last year, and I think he’s going to get more than that this year.”
Sounds like he’s a step ahead of you on this one.
Sandwich,
When I came into the office, driving past the Dome, the mob had switched to:
One, two, three, four,
We don’t want Monroe no more!
Five, six, seven, eight
Get Jason Kubel to the plate!
GBG,
I read words all the time. Words into action will be proof!
My son named his dog “Kubel” Last year. Now we need to get the dog a Kubel Jersey.
Eight, nine, ten, eleven
Kubel’s better than Phil Nevin
I’ve been on-board as a Kubel backer. He definitely needs the majority of DH at-bats, but I wouldn’t gripe if Monroe DHed more often against LH starters. Kubel still doesn’t look real comfortable against lefties (witness the AB against Thornton), but he is, right now, a better hitter than Delmon, you can look it up.
Twelve, thirteen fourteen, fifteen,
sixteen, seventeen, eighteen, nineteen!
Amen and Amen.
The DH is not a position that should be “platooned” and Kubel deserves every chance in the world to get regular AB’s.
I’ve always said, Kubel needs to play on a consistent basis. The kid can hit! He just needs to get out there every day and hopefully he stays healthy.
Thanks Mike!
Jason Kubel will get 500 AB this year, if he stays healthy. I don’t know what we are “freeing” him from.
He is a career .239 hitter against LHP and he has a terrible history of getting hurt. He also is also the worst defensive OF on the team (to be fair, the rest of the OF on the team are above average)
I love the idea of him starting at DH against all RHP and average LHP, but when the the Twins face the top LHP in the league, or if Kubel needs a day off to rest, they use Monroe.
I also think that he needs to DH, not play RF. Why take chances of an injury by putting him in the field?
Kubel only needs 737 HR’s to pass Bonds for the HR record the only question now is will he join the 500-500 club as well.
Twenty, twenty one, twenty two, twenty three
Don’t worry about Kubel’s knee.
Eh…
I like the phrase “Punto-with-a-bat”. It sounds like a game Argentine children might have played at all the various festivals and what-not years ago.
It’s so nice to see the support for Kubel from all the way down here in Texas (I’m from SD so I’m one of you). I am a huge Twins fan, always have been, always will be, and I actually remember playing against Kubel when I was a kiddo in Sioux Falls and he lived in Belle Fourche. He was a stud then, and he is a stud now! I’m glad to see him doing well and firmly believe that he should get 500+ every season. On a side note I also played against Mauer in High School…dude went 4-4 against us with 3 HR’s and a 2B off the top of the wall and threw out EVERY base stealer by a mile. I can’t remember Kubel’s stats…GO TWINS!
Kubel has had good weeks before. Kubel has even had good weeks which included grand slams before. I hope his current streak will continue and he will finally live up to his pre-knee injury hype. But until he shows he can do it continuously, not a few weeks here and a few weeks there, let’s stop annointing Kubel as our answer to DH.
Now that Jason Kubel has been freed, methinks that we need a Free Randy Ruiz movement
one grand slam does not make him mickey ruth, but nice hit and lets see what happens from here on in….
wouldnt a bit more fire in his belly make kubel a much better ball player…??i have always thought this..improve the attitude
By the numbers, in September 2004, Jason Kubel was the best hitting prospect in Twins history. That includes Oliva, Carew, Hrbek, Puckett, Knoblauch, Cuddyer, Mauer, and Morneau.
His knee injury was the most devastating injury the organization has suffered in this decade, ahead of Mauer’s knee and Liriano’s elbow. If not for that injury, Kubel would likely have started in right field in 2005 and beyond. He would be a perennial all-star by now.
He didn’t get 100% healthy until August of 2007. When he did, he became the Twins best hitter (with a .950 OPS), finally fulfilling the promise he showed in the minor leagues two and a half years after he would have, but for the injury. That’s what we are seeing now and what we will continue to see for the rest of his career. He is the best all-around hitter on the team. And he will be one of the best hitters in the league for years to come.
cmathewson,
The statement of Kubel as the Twins best hitting prospect ever, made me look up some numbers:
Kubel in 2004 had .352BA, .416 OBP, .590 SLG, 1.006 OPS, 22 HR, 100 RBI, 96 runs in AA and AAA. Those are great numbers but:
Ortiz in 1999 had an extremely similar year in a full AAA season:
.315BA, .413 OBP, .590 SLG, 1.003 OPS, 30 HR, 110 RBI, 85 runs
Puckett never really played above A-ball (other that 20 games of AAA before he joined the Twins), same with Hrbek (but he had an astronomic year in Visalia when he was 21.. In less than a full year: .379BA, .446 OBP, .630 SLG, 1.076 OPS, 27 HR, 111 RBI, 119 runs). Carew played in the majors when he was 21, Killebrew when he as 18 and Oliva when he was 22 and he was named rookie of the year with .323BA, .359 OBP, .557 SLG, 916 OPS, 32 HR, 94 RBI, 109 runs in the majors
So I would certainly not put Kubel above that bucket of players. The concept of “prospect” is a fairly recent concept, but I am sure that the organization had more hopes about Carew, Killebrew, Oliva, Hrbek and Puckett when they were 22, than about Kubel. Kubel is an above average player, very valuable for this team and should play every day and his ceiling is probably higher than Hrbek’s, but comparing him to Killebrew and Oliva (Carew & Knob were different kind of player) doesn’t make much sense.
cmathewson,
let’s slow it down just a little. I appreciate your excitement, and I like Kubel just as much as you, but I am not sure he is the best all-around hitter on the team. I would have to think that both of the M&M boys scare opposing pitchers (especially southpaws) more than Kubel at this time. Now, I’m not saying they enjoy pitching to him by any stretch of the imagination, but we have an MVP and a batting champ in the order hitting in front of him.
I agree with Gamer except I think it’s OK to play Kubel in the OF sometimes.
His defense isn’t bad and he has a really good arm so he fits with this group whether he’s filling in in LF or RF.
Sure cmath’s conclusion that Kubel was the best hitting prospect in Twins history was exaggerated. But Kubel came close, and the rest of what cmath said is decent and wise.
And I’ve been blogging a lot that Kubel produced HR’s and RBI’s last year at a faster rate than Cuddy — for the WHOLE YEAR, injury recovery and all. And no one came close to him the 2nd half.
So why wasn’t he a starter on opening day this year!!?!
Gardy only created more pressure on Monroe to produce instantly, because everyone knew Kubel could produce.
And that wasn’t a decent and wise decision.
“Free Kubel” doesn’t have quite the ring of “Free Bartlett” from the halycon days. But “More Koo-bell” is brilliant. The 11-year-old goon of the house even promises to bring his “Eat More Chik-n” cowbell won at a recent minor-league game on his next trip to the Dome if it helps.
romer,
Kubel is a better batter than Cuddy. His fielding is not as good, not that Cuddy’s (other than the arm) is great, and he has knee issues that the team was afraid that would get exaggerated by playing on turf. He should have more than 80% of the bats at DH for the next several years unless he gets really good medical clearance to play the field. I thought that the Cuddy long term signing was a bit of overkill, but, that’s old news… If Kubel has a good year (and he should) the Twins should sign him long term just because there are not many powerful bats in any level of the organization right now…
As far as him minor league numbers, they were very good (since 1994 only 7 Twins had OPS higher than 1.0 in AAA) and he is one of them:
Mario Valdez 1.022, 2000
Marty Cordova 1.009, 1994
John Barnes 1.006, 2000
Jason Kubel 1.006, 2004
David Ortiz 1.003, 1999
Todd Walker 1.000, 1996
But as you can see from that list high OPS numbers in the minors do not always translate in greatness in the majors.
BTW, if BC and the rest want to see Kube’s grand slam, FSN is currently rebroadcasting the game. It’s the 5th inning……7-3 Twins.
BTW again, it would have been 5-3 if Gomez hadn’t delivered his patient, right-field double with its 2 RBI’s.
Ortiz’s 99 numbers are a bad comparison. PCL was a hitters league, Eastern League much more pitcher friendly. Although I don’t think I would label Kubel the greatest in terms of minor league performance.
It’s a bold statement, yes. But notice I said, “by the numbers”. Ortiz might have had a better AAA than Kubel, but Kubel had the better overall minor league numbers. Killer, Tony, Rod, Hrbie and Puck never spent a lot of time in the minors, so they were never allowed to put up the kind of numbers Kubel put up before his injury. They were better prospects by scouting and all that is holy, but not by the numbers.
One thing we can say: Kubel put up better numbers than three regulars on the roster who did have significant minor league careers: Mauer, Morneau and Cuddyer. That is saying a lot. And now that he is finally healthy, he can contribute at least as much as those guys do.
cmathewson,
now that he is finally healthy, he can contribute at least as much as those guys do.
I totally agree with this statement and actually think that he can contribute more than Cuddy.
thrylos,
Every one of those OPS numbers you posted, with the exception of Kubel’s, occurred at Salt Lake City. This must be taken into consideration given how favorable the conditions were toward hitters there.
Many hitters went through there that fooled a lot of people due to a lack of understanding park factors.
I agree with Seth.
Please no more negative comments about Punto. He ROCKS and he is Judy’s “Peanut”
There is an elephant in the room. It’s easy to say all this in support of Kubel after hitting a salami last night. But… he has had some troubling strike outs this year. I hope we can write them off as “every big hitter strikes out often”, or perhaps “it’s because he doesn’t bat enough”. I hope those backward-Ks don’t persist.
Ok, I’m a Koo-Ball fan, I’ve always thought he’s had some pop in his bat, but all this talk of minor league performance is getting a little ridiculous…especially the david ortiz comparisions.
first off, ortiz is an entirely different hitter than when he was with the twins.
Second, its the minor leagues are just that, the minor leagues. I’m sure Mike Vick has a 80% completion percentage in prison ball just as Canseaco can still take my dad yard in softball.
Finally we’re less than 15 games into the season, I love the optimism but do we really think Kubel will contribute equally than Cuddy (they don’t make those things out of Styrofoam ya know), The Canadian, and Baby Joe?
Anyways, go Koo-Ball, prove me wrong, earn the long term deal, and i’ll buy a jersey and make a “circle me Bert” sign that says I was wrong about you.
Go Twins
Kubel ain’t a problem. Pitching ain’t a problem. And since it’s obvious that Harris and Lamb are going to produce, offense ain’t a big problem.
But there’s a problem……..Everett. He’s got a wuss arm and likes to throw rainbows with it. And he’s an automatic out. And his replacement is Punto. And his long-term replacement, Casilla, has the mentality of a high school kid.
Looks like a black hole at SS.
And there’s no use for Everett as a bench player —- not a pinch hitter or a defensive replacement (weak arm). So if he’s not a bench player, how can you pretend he’s a starter?
Yea! More Ku-Bell (Ku-bel? Koo-bell?)! Both the sentiment and the statement are brilliant.
If Punto is someone’s “Peanut”, that means he’s one peanut down, given the old anatomy thing.
I think that it should be me at short and Bradon Harris at second, that guy can hit!
jason kubel huh? just kidding he’s from south dakota my home state and the best state their is i wanted him to be sent down prior before the allstar break last year but after the allstar break i was pretty impressed with my homestater
“And his replacement is Punto. And his long-term replacement, Casilla, has the mentality of a high school kid.
Looks like a black hole at SS.”
Tolbert is Everett’s replacement until Casilla gets out of 6th Period Detention.
they should start tolbert at short leave harris at second and lamb at third till some stud comes along
Tolbert could start. Just give him some caffeine and he could play all 3 infield spots at once. Everett and Punto seem redundant, late inning defensive replacements
How about this line-up vs righties
1.Gomez
2.Mauer
3.Kubel DH
4.Morneau
5.Young
6.Cuddeyer
7.Lamb
8.Harris
9.Tolbert SS
Tolbert is looking like a good option to have SS and so is harris ultimately.
Casilla will figure it out or be out of this organization
I’m just not ready to jump on this wagon yet, I guess. Kubel is by far the least scary DH in the league… unless you count Aubrey Huff, in which case, he is the second-to-last scariest DH in the league.
<>
Puckett, Hrbek and Carew all fell short of 1,000 minor league ABs. (Ah, so much easier to acclimate when you don’t have to adjust to a wood bat.)
Killbrew and Oliva were about a season short of Kubel’s minor-league ABs. They spent more time in the minors than people might think.
Kubel 1654
Oliva 1254
Killebrew 1188
Carew 945
Hrbek 940
Puck 903
Kubel should be the best Dh the Twins have had in the last few years (since Molitor?). This is assuming his knee holds up running around on the turf. If he can be even league average Dh, we will be far advanced over the last few years. At his age & experience level, there is also room for improvement. Lets hope for the best.
the least scary DH in the league
bit of an overstatement. Here is a list of less scary DHs in the league (alphabetically):
Milton Bradley
Billy Butler
Aubrey Huff (you got that one)
Cliff Floyd
Gary Matthews (arguably, but I’d rather have Kubel)
Mike Sweeney
Jose Vidro
In order for kubel to get consistent at bats, Ron Gardenhire would have to maintain a steady lineup like most mlb teams, not going to happen. kubel is lookin at about 400-450 at bats at the most. since the twins offense is so woeful, Gardy feels that he needs to tinker with the lineup everyday and not let the lesser guys have a steady spot in the line up. what he really needs to do is work with the players on their approach at the plate. Most good hitters will take pitches while waiting for a certain pitch in a certian area over the plate that they can drive, besides mauer and morneau the twins only take pitches because its the twins way and they end up striking out on bad pitches while they took the fastball down the middle
carlos gomez has been phenonimal
moreneau is getting his power back
harris is doing great
young is doing great
mauer is doing great
and then kubel with his second homer being a grand slam
i like what im seeing this season
but craig monroe needs to give us hits and rbi’s and we need to hit in these runners in scoring position plays and stay out of double plays
All this Tolbert talk. He played 6 games at SS last year at AAA.
You all think he’s ready to be a major league SS?
What? Did I miss the meeting at Craig’s today?
I can’t believe someone found something to rymthe with Nevin.
Howard — first, sorry for being snotty. I stand behind what I said, but the tone was uncalled for.
But — Kubel was 6th on the team in plate appearances last season, despite dealing with some injuries. Additionally, he batted .240 in May and June last year, despite being in 43 games during that stretch. I just don’t buy the argument that he’s not been given a fair shot.
Look back (if you’re really bored and have lots of time to kill) at my postings last year, and I was pleading patience for the guy. I still think he can be effective in the bigs. I’m just not convinced at the strawman that’s been set up so people have something to gripe about!
“I can’t believe someone found something to rymthe with Nevin.”
Its easy.
As soon as the Twins picked up Nevin.
I knew they were going to he…….
You’re right, it doesn’t rhyme!
. Kubel is by far the least scary DH in the league
Player A:
August 2007 OPS: 758
August 2007 OPS: 965
Player B:
August 2007 OPS: 919
September 2007 OPS: 1098
Player C:
August 2007 OPS: 947
September 2007 OPS: 989
Player D:
August 2007 OPS: 803
September 2007 OPS: 755
Player E:
August 2007 OPS: 555
September 2007 OPS: 784
Which one is Kubel? Player C.
Player A is Hafner. Player B is Thome. Player D is Billy Butler. Player E is Sheffield.
Since August 1, Thome is the best DH in the division, followed closely by Kubel. Of course, you have a lot of teams with worse DHs in other divisions. The A’s, the M’s, The Rangers, The Angels, The Rays, The O’s, and the Yankees. The Jays have a comparable DH over that period in Thomas and the BoSox have a better one in Ortiz.
Since August 1 2007, Kubel ranks third in the league in OPS among DHs. Not coincidentally, that was when he stopped limping. A lot of GMs would love to have this guy at DH, not even factoring in the fact that he’s only 25 and still cheap.
More Ku-Bell. I wonder what it would take to get that playing in the dome. Maybe we could bring cowbells to the game and wear undersized Kubel jerseys.
If the Twins were to actually now play Kubel everyday Gleeman would find a way to be unduly critical.
He’s like Little Mikey from the Life cereal commercials, though the jury is still out if he even likes Life cereal.
No in-depth response to my 3:29 post.
The Tigers got trompped again tonight. Looks like the Twins could compete for the WC with the B Jays and Mariners and such (KC? A’s?).
SS could make the difference for the Twins.
More Ku-Bell. I wonder what it would take to get that playing in the dome.
At the next homestand, get a bunch of people with “Needs more Ku-bell!” signs or something of that nature.
They get on TV, DnB comment on it (if they get it) and it starts to roll from there.
At .095 I’m with you on Everett. But i think he’s suppose to hit .250
With Punto on the bench I’ll take the .250. Wuss arm or not he’s still about the best there is on D. I like tolbert too but not proven at SS. tolbert would be a good #2. If Gardy decided to move the lineup down I’d be for a tryout at SS to fill out the lineup otherwise I prefer the solid D of everett.
Maybe get some of those plastic helmets and those little wooden bats. Or just a cowbell and the little wooden bat.
If he hits .250, fine.
But I’m wondering if his defense is only a little above average all-around because of the weak arm.
GBG,
Snarky? Yes. Snotty? No. And a little bit of snark is a good thing. Those of us who do these things have to be able to take it as well as dish it … and you made your point in a way that didn’t bother me at all. I hope Gardy stands behind his words. (For those of you who are wondering what the heck we’re talking about, you need to go back about 60 comments!)
“I can’t believe someone found something to rymthe with Nevin.”
Its easy.
As soon as the Twins picked up Nevin,
I knew they were going to hell.
You’re right, it doesn’t rhyme!
What do we want?
Kubel!
When do we want him?
…………………..Brains!
Here’s an idea…we’re lacking depth at 1st base. WE should start grooming Kubel so he can play outfield, 1st and DH.
I agree with thoughts about on Kubel, he is a stud. But please, STOP BASHING PUNTO, he is amazing defensively, has a good eye and a better bat than most think, and is a hell of a hard worker… so shut up, NICK PUNTO is GOOD
Not only should Kubel be playing every day, but Tolbert has earned his “everyday” play card as well.
Dear Howard,
Being the influential man you are, I’d like to enlist your help. I think it would be great to get the crowds to bleat, as in “Baaa!” when Mike Lamb comes to bat. Kind of like a Leeeeeeeew, thing. What do you think? My fiancée, Gaetti, thinks I’m crazy. I’ll defer to your judgement.
Yours truly,
mmm
One grand slam and Kubel is the Jesus of baseball. I have some straws over here if you want to grasp at them.
I agree with Nick and Laura. Lay off of “Judy’s p’nut”. He rocks!
