On Jesse Crain: Speed alone doesn’t kill
Posted on April 16th, 2008 – 7:08 AMBy Howard
Jesse Crain was probably the logical choice to throw the eighth inning, even if the thought of him trying to protect a one-run lead doesn’t exactly fill a blogger with confidence.
Crain’s performance should serve as a reminder to all of us whenever we hear about a “hard-throwing pitcher.”
Throwing hard doesn’t mean much if you don’t have any movement on those hard throws.
Scott Baker pitched well enough — three runs in seven innings — while keeping the Tigers pretty much off balance with fastballs that maxed out at 90 and an assortment of breaking pitches. Crain pumped up the TV radar gun as high as 95, but there was no movement on his fastball.
The Tigers seemed willing to let Crain try for strikes with his breaking stuff and sit on the hard stuff — and hit it all over the park. Three runs, one inning, ballgame.
Baseball 101 refresher: Most major leaguers will not be overpowered.
One more thing: The bullpen, widely considered to be the staple gun of the 2008 Twins, is kind of suffering. The four right-handed up guys — Neshek/Guerrier/Rincon/Crain — have an 8.38 ERA in 19 1/3 innings. When that happens, it hardly matters that the starters have been solid for the first couple of weeks and there’s a guy who saves games (with hard stuff that sizzles and moves) and hasn’t allowed a run in his five innings.
(Wednesday morning update: Here’s an interesting post from the Rake’s Brad Zellar about the historical excellence of the Twins bullpen, dating back to the post-RD era.)
That’s enough for now. Eat some innings tonight, Senor Smoke Free.
other people are here too
33 Responses to "On Jesse Crain: Speed alone doesn’t kill"
Our bullpen is killing us. I’m skerred.
Hey, Detroit is a good team. Better then the Twins. Just the facts, madam.
I watched Crain, and I know how good he has been in the past. To see him hitting 94 and 95 on the radar was very exciting to me. The slider at 89-90 is a great second pitch, and the slow curve at 76-77 is a great third pitch. To me, this early in his comeback (also from fairly major arm surgery), those numbers are very positive and give me hope that he will return to the level he was at before the arm struggles.
i thought his fastball looked straight last night. he may need some time in aaa to get command back. there is no excuse for having your 4-5 best pitcher going against the 3-5 hitters like the tigers have when you have nathan rusting away in the pen.
seth do any of these relief guys have option problems?
I think it will turn around with time, but do they have any AAA options? I can’t think of any that give me confidence.
Most of our bullpen guys have been around for a few years, so I sincerely doubt they have any minor league options left on their contracts. They’ll figure it out. We’re only panicking because its the beginning of the season so the numbers look awful. The Twins still won’t be too impressive this year, but the bullpen at least will settle in.
Two observations:
1. If Crain throws his curve ball about 4 inches lower the pitch before THE pitch to Cabrera, he’s gone… either bounce out to short or strike out looking - the next curve he threw was beautiful.
2. There was a 6 inch home-plate extension on the right half of the plate (from center field looking in) when the Tigers were throwing. Pudge figured this out - he’s smart - and set up 4 inches off the plate every pitch.
You expect even a good bullpen to give up a run here or there but these last two nights have been total collapses. We haven’t seen that in quite a while. The only pitcher I trust in the Twins pen is Nathan.
I have to agree with Seth.
“but do they have any AAA options?”
Mariano Gomez LHP 1.08 ERA, 8.1 IP, 2H, 10K, 2BB, 6 games
Bobby Korecky closer 2-0, 2 SV, 0.00 ERA, 8.2 IP, 7K, 3BB, 6 games
If the bullpen falls from above average to below average, this team could lose piles of games.
Howard were you watching a different game. Crain looked real sharp last night. Both his breaking pitcher were over the plate and had the hitters buckled. M Cabrera (24 year old 4 time all-star) hit a good pitch. 96 mph letters high. Most of the time that’s a strike out. M Ordonez (batting champ) hit a decent slider. If anything you could have wrote this whole blog entry about the walk Crain gave up.
The Twins still won’t be too impressive this year, but the bullpen at least will settle in.
The big thing it’s early enough in the season where there’s chances to make changes. Either by shuffling some guys in AAA…or yes…maybe making a few deals (though I don’t know who in the pen would be worth anything)
That’s the problem with Jesse Crain. His fastball has always been straight even before his injury. I wish Anderson could come up with some new kind of grip for him to see if he could get better movement.
Jared,
I think we have different takes on the same game. It looked to me like the Tigers were willing to let Crain throw his breaking pitches knowing they could get a fastball to drive. There were some good breaking pitches, but not enough to set up the heater.
Our disagreement is another one of those things that makes baseball discussion, and the resulting disagreements, worth the price of the Internet.
I’m going to update my post in a couple of minutes with a link to Brad Zellar’s blog, which speaks to the historical excellent of the Twins bullpen.
I would think that Crain would have two options left. he was called up in 2004 at the end of the season (and added to the 40 man). He started 2005 in AAA (which would be one option). He hasn’t been sent down since. So, I would say he would have two options left, at least one.
Neshek was called up in 2005 and that was an option year. He hasn’t been sent down since, so he’s got a couple.
Guerrier is out of options. Bass is out of options. I don’t know on the rest.
Crain really struggled before his season ended, including blowing a couple of wins for Boof. Was he trying to pitch through the injury at that point or was he healthy but just ineffective? Anyone know the story?
I thought Crain’s stuff was great and location was OK most of the time.
Sometimes the hunter gets the bear.
Sometimes the bear gets the hunter.
Cabrera is certainly capable of hitting good pitches from good pitchers.
I looked at some stats yesterday and since 1990, other than the 2001 team, this is the only team whose relievers have higher ERA that its starters for the season (in the 80s and before it was 50-50, for comparison.) This is a pretty amazing feat by itself.
I am not panicking yet: All the bad bulpen performances (other than Rincon’s) came outdoors in the cold. The next “cold-weather” game is in Chicago May 3rd. If up to then, things don’t improve maybe a change might be necessary.
Nathan, Reyes and Bass (after the butterflies have been worked out) are fine. Guerrier, Crain and Rincon are not. Biggest issues with the first 2 is that Guerrier can’t find the strike zone whereas Crain uses it too often. I really don’t get the reason they offered arbitration to Rincon (other than the fact that he is the only perceived successful member of the Venezuela academy.) He was done last year. Hopefully a team with a decimated bullpen might want him.
A name you don’t often hear about but should keep in mind is Mariano Gomez, a 24 year old lefty in Rochester, who is tearing it up. The book on him is that he has a control issue that on his first year in the Twins’ organization seem to be doing much better.
“but do they have any AAA options?”
Mariano Gomez LHP 1.08 ERA, 8.1 IP, 2H, 10K, 2BB, 6 games
Bobby Korecky closer 2-0, 2 SV, 0.00 ERA, 8.2 IP, 7K, 3BB, 6 games
Sorry about repeating myself.
“Speed alone doesn’t kill”
It does, if you are Sid Finch and you throw 150 mph.
I can’t believe Jared watch all of Crain’s pitches and then made that statement.
As his inning progressed, Crain lost his command, and Detroit was sitting on the FB. Sheffield even got a decent swing on an eye-high 95 mph (or was it 96?) fastball.
A moment later, they continued handling the fastballs and Crain tried a curve but had NO command on it. So much so that I then actually called Cabrera’s 2-run HR on Joe C’s blog, because I knew a FB would be coming.
Crain is overthrowing. He has a great drop-curve and a good slider. But he left the slider up a little on Ordonez’s rightfield double.
Howard is right —- stop overthrowing and get better command.
Crain will be fine.
I agree with a few others, I thought Crain looked okay. He shouldn’t be pitching in that situation right now, that was the problem. He looked much better than Liriano after having a much more serious surgery. The bullpen isn’t as bad as it looks and the starters aren’t as good as they look either. It will all even out by the end of the season.
Here is an interesting (albeit technical) tidbit about Neshek, which might explain some things. From Josh Kalk’s excellent site, here (http://baseball.bornbybits.com/2008/Pat_Neshek.html) are Neshek’s pitch graphs in 2008 and here are those of 2007 (http://baseball.bornbybits.com/plots/Pat_Neshek.html).
If you compare the vertical movement and the release points in the 2 years, his 4 seamer (indicated as a “sinker” and “fastball” in the graphs) has been consistent. However, his 2 seamer (indicated as “slider” in the graphs) has been thrown by a lower release point this year compared to last and has much more downward movement that than of last years, which usually results in a ball…
Great site, go have some fun 
Crain should have been in that spot, given the options with Nesheck struggling right now. You need to see what Crain has.
That said, I’d think that if Nathan is really that good, that he could come in at some point in the 8th.
If we’re in the market for relievers, I bet Tony Fiore’s not up to much. Go go gadget palmball!
Tony Fiore. I know his wife. She use to bartend at the Dog Water Cafe in Tampa.
I see nothing wrong with bringing in Nathan to pitch the 8th on occasion. The Yankees bring in Mariano early all the time. What’s a few extra pitches if it means 1-2 more outs and no runs given up?
Now, how does the R.A. Dickey trade look after all this?
Well, Dickey’s pitched 1 inning this season and recorded a single strikeout.
So using blogger logic, he projects to be this season’s Cy Young and the was the dumbest trade the Twins ever made.
T,
he doesn’t project as a Cy Young winner, but he could have help the team more this season and for the foreseeable future than the Twins’ return in that trade and yes that was a dumb trade.
Howard: tell me Tolbert is dead? kid was on fire so the put him on the bench? Whats the deal?
Thats like putting Smo on the bench when he’s 7-10 on 3’s.
arenal,
Smo has many more 3’s than Tolbert has at-bats. If I needed someone to come through in the clutch, I go w/ Smo.
