Educating young players
Posted on May 1st, 2008 – 6:08 AMBy Howard
JoeC’s story about yesterday’s game chronicles all that is maddening and fun about Gogomez: hits in the three innings when the Twins scored their runs, an ill-advised base running move that almost worked (I saw the replay and I think he came up just short of the plate) and the fundamentally flawed catch in center field that earned a shared-with-the-sportswriters “I’ll pull your butt if you do that again” threat from Gardy. All of that is part of the education of a gifted player whose talent needs to be turned from raw to baked just right, an ongoing process that won’t be done by the end of this month or next — or even this season or next.
From this distance, the thing I see in Gogomez is a player who is battling himself to do the right things while reverting to stuff he did in the minors without really hurting his team. Major-league pitchers will go dirt/outside on him until he shows he can resist that pitch more often than he’ll flail at it.
Like your teenager with the car, Gogomez needs to make good choices consistently. Joe C’s term, “Project Gogo, ” is an apt one for what the Twins are going through with the youngster. You can be encouraged by the fact that he’s 7 for 15 in his last four games — or discouraged because it’s been 22 days since he’s gotten a walk and his stats are .265/.279/.373. The havoc he plays on the bases juices those numbers a bit but the 12:1 strikeout-to-walk ratio sucks them a little bit dry.
More than anyone else I’ve seen in the majors, Gogomez simply needs to be ridden and reinforced by the coaching staff every day. Praise the good, talk through the bad, get him to slow down the game in his head so the bad choices happen less and less frequently.
It’s not the sort of thing that typically happens in the majors, but this is such a special case that Gardy better load up on carrots and sticks next time he goes to the hardware store.
The other puzzle is Nick Blackburn. Another good outing yesterday means that he’s had four solid ones in six starts. In the two other games, the offense has given him a five-run lead to work with. (You think Bonser wouldn’t kill for a lead like that? Just once?) After losing that lead in Texas last week, Blackburn acknowledged that he was offering up to many fat pitches, which led to the Rangers comeback. When he lost the lead in Detroit, the hits also came in sudden and rapid succession.
A lot of times, you’ll hear announcers talk about a pitcher with a comfortable lead being in position to simply throw strikes and let the other team take its hacks. It should only be that easy. Throwing strikes still means using the entire strike zone, working batters who will dig in if there see similar pitches coming over and over and over. During his 2007 call-up, Gardy said that Blackburn was fine until he got to throwing the same pitch — a cut fastball — repeatedly. That’s good enough for Rochester, but not for Minnesota.
The contrast in the close games Blackburn’s pitched has been stunning. In his 7 2/3 shutout innings against Cleveland, he worked the plate and changed speeds like a Radke without the home-run problem. Same thing in his first start against the Angels (the 1-0 loss) and I assume — I only saw the 30-minute replay of this start — that’s what he did against the White Sox. Blackburn needs to understand that, in the majors, you’ve got to pitch pretty much the same way with a five-run lead as you do when your team is up or down by a run. Don’t believe the TV guys and the box-seat pitching coaches.
I’d like to see the Twins get him another five-run lead and see what happens. I’m betting on Blackburn to get it right next time, and thereafter.
other people are here too
56 Responses to "Educating young players"
Blackburn has been a pleasant surprise. This kid is good and should only get better. He has definitely picked up the rotation with the struggles of Liriano.
Great article Howard!
To be fair… the Texas 5 runs came with help from the mis-cues and non-plays on the defensive side. It was discouraging for Blackburn not to have some plays made behind him. But, I agree with the essence of the comments above. He did become a little too BP-like with his location and pitch selection. I see a bright future for Blackburn and of course, the enigmatic, dynamic, and electrifying Carlos Gomez.
Carlos Gomez…….sheesh.
We coulda had Phillip Hughes.
What?
OK, never mind.
Liriano’s stats from yesterday
Player IP H R ER BB SO HR ERA
Liriano (L, 0-1) 4.1 5 4 4 5 3 1 7.56
I’d say his control is months away from being acceptable.
His line is also here
Nice article, Howard. I think the Twins should ask Rod Carew to come on board for the regular season and assign him GoGo as a babysitting project. There is so much raw potential there that it is worth the extra effort.
sid, there seems to be a curse around the players the Twins could have had.
Hughes, Kennedy…I haven’t heard much about Bucholtz or Lester.
Ellsbury seems to be doing well.
jama I’d say his velocity is still down too!
All this talk about his control…..I think he’d throw more fastballs in the zone if they were 93-97 with movement
I’d be scared th throw that weak fastball to right handed hitters if i were franchise.
I don’t mean to keep ripping franchise…I really mad at the team for trading away Santana….when Johan got traded the only way I was able to calm down was by telling myself we still got the BEST lefty in franchise!
Then he comes out and stinks it up early in the season leaving this fan feeling like there’s little to be hopeful about until Guerra hits the bigs even he won’t be able to dominate like santana did.
You don’t let guys who are the very best at their position leave your team!
Howard,
I would like to get your thoughts on the Twins hitting instructors. There has been more than a little talk about how Vavra is handling the players. What do you think about Vavra and how can the Twins as an organization turn around their horrible reputation when it comes to plate discipline?
Thanks for the article. I prefer analysis to the more, um, creative blogs.
Yes, this is not a project of the month; it’ll take years. I think it’s good to repeat that as everybody expects change overnight. Same with Young.
shameless,
“I really mad at the team for trading away Santana….You don’t let guys who are the very best at their position leave your team!”
If you have 1-2 players in that category and 23 JAGS (just a guy), you will get your butt kicked six times a week.
The Twins (and I) prefer to have a contending team rather than Santana dominating? (15-13, 3.33 last year) every five days while the team finishes in 3rd place, 17 games out.
Great post written by Aaron Gleeman today. It basically points to the whole reason this whole organization is screwed and will continue to be screwed if things don’t change.
santana was determined to get top dollar and while it is real disappointing because he is only 28 it had to be done santana would have gotten too much of the team salary, lord knows pohlad wouldnt pull the financial strings like wilf has to make a real contender shame, santana is a sad loss
Speaking about Gomez, here is an interesting comparison:
2007 numbers for the Twins in the LF position:
.248/.303/.374; 13 SB in a year. Fielding: FP .988, RF league +.02
2008 numbers for Gomez:
.265/.279/.373; 10 SB in a month. Fielding: FP .987, RF league +.56
So, arguably, Gomez about equals the Twins’ LF production in the bat from last year and surpasses its production on the bases and is a superior fielder. That’s a plus and he can only get better. The last few games he has been taking more pitches. To his defense, credit his strikeout yesterday to Gardy who called an illadviced hit and run play with 3 strikes and LNP on 1st.
Speaking of the devil, Gardy has to quit talking to reporters in that tone about his players and especially people who need (as you say) guidance and education like Gomez. Did he publicly threated to “pull Cuddy’s butt” after his head first slide into third that hurt himself and the team, how about after that head first slide of LNP’s to 1B yesterday? As a fan it is hard to deal with that inconsistency from a manager.
Blackburn leads the Twins in IP
(projected to 220 for the season with Boof close second; his project to 216) and ERA (his ERA so far 3.52, is not that far from Santana’s 3.33 for 2007). I think that without Liriano this year, the Twins are having a good rotation. With Liriano projecting to take Hernandez’ position next year and if he works his issues in the minors, and the rest getting another year of experience, this can be a great rotation next year.
thrylos
The only problem with your comparison is that Gomez is playing CF and not LF. LF was a huge whole last year so to say that he is out-performing them isn’t saying much. That’s like saying that Lamb is playing better than Punto did last year. That doesn’t mean that Lamb is having a good year.
jama,
my premise in this comparison is that Gomez would be better that the LF last year and Young better than the CF last year, by season’s end… I think that this would be a more appropriate comparison based on the styles of offensive players the Twins featured at those spots.
if you want to compare defense, Hunter’s Range Factor last year was league -.03.
Are you saying you expect Young’s production at the end of the year to be close to Hunter’s last year? Young is really the only guy on this team that I am completely disappointed by. And I didn’t really expect him to hit 25 HR’s and 100 RBI’s but what he has done so far is nothing short of bad.
jama,
I have been a bit disappointed by Young’s AB this year and yes “expect” might be be a strong word, but here is my thinking:
Last year Young was: .288/.316/.408 with 93 RBI (mostly batting 5th) For comparison Hunter last year was: .287/.334/.505 with 107 RBI. Close enough numbers to hope that with one more year under his belt, Delmon would equal those of Hunter.
So far his performance has been: .265/.306/.314 8 RBI. He is a slow starter. Last year after the end of April he was: .257/.276/.396 13 RBI. Comparing his early months between the 2 years, his batting and OBP has been higher this year but his SLG has been lower. In the last 2-3 games, he has been pulling the ball, which is a good indication that his power numbers might come up. I think that with the relative increase in the contact and on base numbers, if his power numbers rise to the relative level of last years, getting close to Hunter’s numbers from last year would not be out of the question.
Young’s numbers are a little misleading when you look at RBI’s. His slugging was almoat 100 points less than Hunter’s last year. That is a pretty significant amount. He had a lot of RBI’s because he had a lot of guys on base for him.
I’m also very surprised at how well Blackburn has pitched. He reminds me a little bit of Radke only Crede’s HR is the only one he’s given up this year. I have a love hate relationship with Gomez. I know he’s a work in progress so we will see a lot of ups and downs for the next few years. The thing that worries me is that Gomez and Harris have more strikeouts then Kubel and Morneau.
I’d love to see the stats on that, but it seems that several of Harris’ strikeouts (and at least a couple of Gomez’) are in hit and run plays with 2 strikes. Kubel is an issue, esp if he bats in front of Young. His swing looked as bad as Gomez’ at times… These 2 probably need to be switched in the batting order.
Alternatively, since Gardy doesn’t want to bat Mauer 2nd, maybe that would be a good spot for Young
“Alternatively, since Gardy doesn’t want to bat Mauer 2nd, maybe that would be a good spot for Young”
Thats a good idea i think everyone has a misperception of Young being a power hitter but he hasn’t show that thus far.
Since Gardy for some unknown reason refuses to bat Mauer #2 would you prefer for him to bat #3 or lead off with Gomez hitting #9?
I am actually leaning toward having him leadoff rather than bat #3. The 6-8 hitters would all probably suck but the 9-5 could have a little bit of a different look.
Gomez has to start the game lead off… I would bat him 3rd, after Gomez and Young. With those 2 up there, there is great speed on the top of lineup.
Gomez
Young
Mauer
Morneau
Cuddyer
Kubel/Monroe (and Monroe has to play more)
Harris
Lamb
Everett
Here are Harris’ splits:
batting 2nd: .265/.321/.367
batting 7th: .375/.407/.458
methinks its a no-brainer where Harris should bat…
Why does Gomez have to bat lead off? This way he gets less AB’s but still bat’s before the “big” boys.
I think that the team is better with Gomez starting the game, esp. if he gets on base.
“it seems that several of Harris’ strikeouts (and at least a couple of Gomez’) are in hit and run plays with 2 strikes”
I hope it was run and hit (rather than hit and run) with two strikes.
Forcing a batter to swing at all pitches on a two strike count is not a good idea. Making him swing at expanded strike zone pitches with two strikes is much more sensible.
That’s the problem, he doesn’t get on base.
sane,
i know that’s its not a good idea. Apparently Gardy doesn’t.
It’s always a little perplexing to me that people have such an obsession about the batting order. How often does the #3 batter actually bat third during the course of a game? Does a leadoff hitter end up with an appreciable number of at-bats compared to the #7 guy?
bird,
The batting order issue is also about when you bat RELATIVE to the other players.
For example Gomez ahead of Harris ahead of Mauer ahead of Morneau, etc.
rather than:
Gomez-first
Harris-second
Mauer-third
Morneau-fourth
etc.
Hey Howard check out this link i know you’ll apreciate it.
http://blog.oregonlive.com/breakingnews/2008/04/the_best_tale_of_sportsmanship.html
BC,
You can also find that story here…
http://www.startribune.com/sports/.
Nice story. I’m sure AJ Pierzynski and Nick Swisher would have done the same thing.
Sorry i actually heard about it on the radio first. I think AJ would have done a pile driver on the other leg.
Since I don’t think the Twins will win more than about 76 games or so, this year isn’t about winning for me. It is about finding out who can play, and who can’t, and for helping players learn and get better.
So, the question isn’t “Is Gomez better than Span”, it is “will Gomez learn more up in MN, or down in Rochester”. I’m conflicted on this. I don’t see a lot of evidence that either place really helps players be better. I certainly don’t see it at the major league level. How many Twins players do better in the majors than we thought they’d do after watching their minor league career? Not many / none appears to be the answer for the last few years (or longer).
I’m not really so sure that Blackburn has pitched all that differently in his “good” starts vs. his “bad” starts. When he has a good game, it seems to be because he “threw strikes and let his defense make plays behind him”. When he has a bad game, it’s because he “threw too many fat pitches.”
I suspect the real difference is that on one day, the balls come off the bats and find gloves and on another day, they find gaps (or the gloves fail a bit). He’s pitching well enough that I hope he doesn’t make too many adjustments at this point.
well I do believe Joe C. wasn’t talking about a “Project Gogo” this time last week…he was flat out calling for the kid to be sent to AAA.
I’ll take “Project Gogo” over “Project Punto”, our renewed lineup impedement, any day of the week.
Gogo is playing a very good centerfield, too.
Thyrlos98
“As a fan it is hard to deal with that inconsistency from a manager.”
Haha, you make me laugh.
Gomez has had 3 mini-seasons — the first 10 games (very good), the next 10 games (horrible), and the games since (excellent).
No surprise. It’s only been a month…..too early for conclusion of any kind.
I love the flambouyance, individualism, and fun spirit he has. It can be very productive — for lots of reasons. If the Twins suppress it too much, they could hinder his development.
Looked like Gomez was safe at home, but who knows.
Angels manager Scioscia would have been pleased. Gardy is outraged.
Re: Blackburn
I noticed that Baker suffered nearly the same fate against Texas that Blackburn did. They both got hammered the second time through the order. Why? Because Andy teaches pounding the strike zone and the Rangers started swinging at the first pitch. This is a case where the coaching made the player too predictable for the opponent.
That’s why I’m a little wary of overcoaching Gomez. PArt of his success is the unpredictability. As Tom Powers said today, “You just never know what he’s going to do.”
Oh, and on that play: It was partly Ulger’s fault. Gomez says he thought he saw the steal sign. But nobody should ever try to steal third with two out and a 3-1 count on the number 3 hitter. So he later admitted the mistake. But Ulger made the bigger mistake when he sent Gomez home after the ball kicked away from Crede. If Ulger doesn’t send him, he stays at third and he’s not out.
cmath,
It probably wasn’t Ullger’s decision.
The runner often makes the split-second decision in that case.
There is little time for coach decision, coach to player communication and player reaction to that communication to take place.
Any runner who delays his reaction long enough for that process to take place is an over-cautious (poor) baserunner.
What’s a third base coach for if the runner makes all the decisions? Ulger should have been screaming at him to stay put. That’s his job. If Gomez ran through that, it’s Gomez’s fault. But no story talks about Ulgers’ role in this. It’s his job to keep Gomez at third.
cmath,
“What’s a third base coach for if the runner makes all the decisions?”
A third base coach makes those decisions in which he actually has time to relay them to the runner in time for the runner to react.
Ullger may have been screaming (or not)for Gomez to stay at 3rd, but Gomez was likely reacting instinctively to what he thought he saw.
“It’s his job to keep Gomez at third.”
No, thats wrong. Its his job to TRY to keep Gomez at third.
“Ulger should have been screaming at him to stay put. That’s his job”
THAT is correct.
That is from approximately 45 years personal experience as a 3B coach.
I think the Twins will be reluctant to play a weak defense behind Blackburn… He’s shown a tendancy to induce ground balls and needs that support to avoid the big innings.
MC,
IMO you are correct, although that reluctance is very much justified at 3B and SS. Lamb/Tolbert is unacceptable; Lamb/anyone is not good. Punto/Everett is the best the Twins can do and then hope that they can score enough runs to overcome two defensive specialists in the batting order.
cmath,
My point is that no matter how clear the instructions, the baserunner may react contrary to those instructions.
Sometimes the baserunner’s adrenalin can take over his brain.
And witnesses often incorrectly assume that “the coach sent him”.
i didn’t see the play in question. but in general, sane, your comments sound exactly right.
Gomez is the most exciting thing to come to the Twins in a very long time. He is a very talented kid who is much better then his stats would have you believe. I would be curious to find out who this Johan Santana guy is that Twins fans keep talking about. Can somebody help me out on this?
Oh - Gomez was safe. He was already getting to his feet when the ump called him out. It was a very bad call on what might have been a very memorable play.
My point is that no matter how clear the instructions, the baserunner may react contrary to those instructions.
Example: Hunter. I seem to recall him running through stop signs on more than one occasion.
Agreed on what you’re saying sane. The 3B coach isn’t making EVERY decision for the baserunner. One of their most important jobs is to be the eyes for a guy rounding second. When going from first to 2nd, you pick up the 3B coach, who’s going to be watching the play (which could be behind you) to tell you if you can advance or not.
Because you don’t want to be turning and looking for the ball, you just want to run until somebody either waves you through or tells you to stop. (Or slide)
But a good player also will recognize their own opportunities. In the case of Gomez, if he sees that ball get away, he gets up and runs full speed. Ulger may not have seen the play develop as quickly as Gomez did.
He was already getting to his feet when the ump called him out.
Gomez beat the throw, but Hall was sitting right on top of home. Gomez slid into Hall and stood up, but he never actually hit the plate.
I think Gomez’s odds of scoring by trying to take home at that point were better than the odds of Mauer getting a hit and driving in Gomez. He was only out because the catcher made a good play in blocking the plate. Mauer had about a 30% chance of getting a hit. I think Gomez had a much higher chance of scoring than 30%. I think trying to steal with 2 outs was a bad decision, but trying to take home after the throw was a good decision that just didn’t pan out.
mike wants wins,
I actually didn’t see the play real time.
But if there were two outs at the time, and the play was THAT close at home, Gomez definitely made a good risk-reward decision by trying to score on the play.
And you are correct, the ONLY negative was the final outcome of the play.
Good decision, bad result.
