We’re not gonna take it anymore! (We’re not, are we?)
Posted on May 19th, 2008 – 7:52 AMBy Howard
Gardy pretty much summed up stuff after the game when he said that Sunday’s game was “embarrassing for the organization, and for our fans.”
I have a couple of ideas.
First of all, any fan from Minnesota who went to Denver to follow the Twins this weekend should show up at the Dome this week and demand free tickets for a home game. If the performance was that embarrassing — and it was — the fans who showed their loyalty are entitle to a make-good. We’re probably talking hundreds of fans and it wouldn’t really hurt the bottom line to make such an offer. It would hurt the bottom line even less if the players, Gardy and the coaches agreed to pay for the tickets as punishment.
The other thing is that Gardy and the media and everyone else have been going on and on and on about the mistakes that are being made and how major-leaguers simply shouldn’t run into outs, drop balls and kill rallies with lame at-bats with the frequency that the Twins have been doing those things.
Talk ain’t action.
How about if management does an imitation of 2006 and lets someone go, just like it did with the Batista/Castro purge of that June. I think it would get the attention of players who might be getting a bit complacent about their misplays and the “young team” excuse for players who aren’t so young. (No, that’s not Delmonic word play!)
The Twins are a crossroads where they could go one of two ways — understanding that they’re not good enough to win while playing mistake-enhanced baseball or benignly accepting the mistakes because nobody seems interested in doing anything more than talking about them.
Even when the Twins won on Friday night, Juan Rincon managed to make things more difficult than they should have been, entering in the eighth with a two-run lead and walking two batters before Dennys Reyes bailed him out of the mess. Sunday, for those of you who found other things to do, Rincon entered with the Twins trailing 3-2 and walked two more batters as the Rockies, with the help of Mitt Harris’ brick glove (he dropped a routine throw on a bunt) and Jesse Crain’s inexcusable walking of Colorado’s pitcher with the bases loaded, scored their final three runs.
Rincon’s raw numbers aren’t terrible, but it has reached a point where he can’t be brought into close games without expecting the worst. When Pat Neshek blew out his elbow earlier this month, everyone in the bullpen became faced with the challenge of stepping up and taking on more responsibility. It was a reasonable thing for the manager to give them that chance.
In other situations this season, there’s been some modest stepping-up.
The troubles with keeping middle infielders healthy allowed Matt Tolbert to show some promise — until his ill-chosen dive left him with an injured thumb. Denard Span showed some potential when he got a major league look after Cuddyer’s injury and, given some chances recently, Monroe has shown his value, if a bit inconsistently.
In Rincon’s case, though, he’s walked seven batters in the six innings he’s worked since Neshek’s injury. Almost half the pitches he’s thrown in that time (48 percent) have been balls. That’s a big number.
I’m going to cut Crain some slack because he’s in recovery from a major arm injury. In Rincon’s case, the fact that the Twins tried to unload him on Tampa Bay as part of the Young/Garza deal tells me that nothing would be missed if he were to be sent away. The sample size, dating back to last season, has been sufficient to push that button.
Obviously, Rincon isn’t the only one making mistakes. And while it’s not time to panic, it’s a good time to make a statement and eat a ($2.5 million) contract.
And one more thing, as long as I have your attention. Based on Slowey’s starts so far, when he was trying to get through the sixth inning, how many of you were yelling for Gardy to manage like a National Leaguer — bring in the reliever and make a double switch after Todd Helton’s home run tied the score at 2 and the next two batters doubled and walked?
Dick ‘n’ Bert were talking about how Slowey was due to bat third in the next inning, which they saw as a contributing factor to keeping him in. But Mike Redmond had made the third out in the top of the sixth and there was a guy on the bench named Mauer who could have come in to catch at the same time Gardy could have gone to his bullpen.
That way, Mauer bats third in the top of the seventh, Matt Guerrier stays on to pitch the bottom of the seventh (with a better chance of a 2-2 tie instead of inheriting a 3-2 deficit) and things have less of a chance of going all to Hades.
One more reason to ask for refunds, huh?
other people are here too
158 Responses to "We’re not gonna take it anymore! (We’re not, are we?)"
sometimes you hear that a coach or manager has lost his team, it “appears” that maybe gardy has lost this team. way to many games given away when the division is for the taking with just decent ball.
on the other hand mauer hit one to the track sat. if they put a team on mount everest the air may be thin enough for him to hit one out.
I can see dropping Rincon. He hasn’t been good since ‘times that we do not mention.’
Might be a good opportunity to bring up Danny Graves. I can actually see that happening soon.
Howard, I was thinking the same thing with the double switch. What a waste to have Guerrier get up, and then come in for only two outs. I really have started to question Gardenhire on his strategy, now that the team isn’t as good as it was during the division winning years. The lineup yesterday was a joke even with the injuries. I know Lamb is 1 for 19 against lefties, but when you rest Mauer and have no DH, why would you take a guy with the fourth most rbi’s on the team out of the lineup? Our last 4 hitters Sunday were hitting .190, .000 (Clark), .190 and
.000 (Slowey).
Seth,
I opted against going back to the ‘05 drug suspension because Rincon was pretty good in ‘06. Since then, not so much.
I’m intrigued by Danny Graves too — the former Reds closer who is trying to make a comeback.
As I recall, Rincon tailed off at the end of 2006. Wasn’t Crain givent he set-up role in the ‘06 playoffs because Rincon had slipped?
As for Gardy, I guess I’m getting a little tired of his finger-pointing. Yes the team has pretty much sucked the past week, but some of his management decisions haven’t helped matters either. Also, it should be obvious by now that publicly criticizing players isn’t effective.
The longer Gardy has been in control, the less well they have played fundamentally. I think it isn’t just the players that should be considered for new opportunities.
Face it, Smith doesn’t appear to have done a good job this offseason. Harris, Lamb and Everett have been much less than expected and don’t need to be on this roster (other than lack of other options - nice job building the farm system the last decade, Twins). Young has been bad, very bad. I don’t think he’ll stay this bad, but if someone with an extra 2B/3B prospect wanted an OF with some potential….Young would have already been sent down and Span brought up if Young wasn’t just acquired for Garza, I believe. This whole playing streak is really bad for him. There is no accoutability at all, and no option for it if they won’t sit him. Cuddeyer is making those of us that said 2006 was one year, and 2004, 2005, 2007 were three years look a little less stupid.
As for pitchers, I know Korecky isn’t perfect, but others have shown they aren’t either. I think he should get a shot. Bonser - he needs to be better, or I’d certainly consider him eligible for other work also (bullpen, tradebait).
What would this team be w/o Mauer, Morneau, Nathan, Hernandez (wow, I was wrong on that one) and Blackburn (whom the Twins had no thought of having in the rotation until others had issues)?
Someone said that the announcers were talking about how the Twins build from w/in. Have the announcers even looked at the roster? LF, CF, 3B, SS, 2B, Monroe, Punto, Hernandez, Nathan, Bonser, Redmond…..not one of them was drafted or developed by the Twins. That is 5 of your everyday 8 fielders, your best starter and your closer, plus others. Maybe the reason they don’t do the little things well anymore is that they haven’t drafted and developed any hitters/fielders other than the M&M boys in Ryan’s entire tenure as GM.
Anyone else notice that the Rays are winning now? Some players are great athletes, but not winners/teammates. Have we heard much about Young, other than he won’t take coaching? Maybe Crawford wasn’t wrong when he said the team was better off w/o Delmon and the other guy whose name escapes me.
Good column and good comments. This team has become an embarrassment to real Twins baseball. A sorry state…when all are healthy they should drop Lamb, Everett & Rincon. Also, Mauer gets too many days off! He needs to be in there. I grew up in NYC and watched Campanella & Berra play almost everyday with great success. Whatever they do, let’s hope he gets angry and for once take a hard swing at the ball, (Every swing looks like T ball)!
Some good points Howard. I’d rather see them try and deal Rincon vs. cutting him loose.
I had pushed for Everett to be one of “those guys” who got the brunt of the poor play. But now that Tolbert and Punto (who would be the bench option) are both hurt, it looks like Everett and Casilla are our SSs for the moment.
Yesterday I treaded into forbidden waters and suggested a shakeup along the lines of attempting to trade a guy like Cuddyer for a MLB-ready 3B (I used Atkins as my primary example…for reasons I won’t repeat unless someone wants to open that discussion)
I also suggested other shakeups, including moving Lamb to the bench and using Buscher until a new 3B can be found.
There was also putting Mauer 2nd and having Monroe 3rd until he’s either released or Young starts showing power.
The hitting coach situation (as I’ve said before) is a bigger problem than Joe Vavra, and thus it’d be difficult to address the issue in any sort of emergency situation. They could fire Vavra and let some guy interim while they scoured the league for somebody new (who thinks differently…not just teaches their way better). But it’s an organizational problem.
Going into tonight, I’d use the following lineup and stick with it until the obvious replacements are healthy (parenthesis).
Harris (Gomez)
Mauer
Monroe (Young)
Morneau
Cuddyer (Monroe)
Kubel (Cuddyer)
Young (Buscher)
Lamb (Harris)
Everett (Tolbert)
If they want to shake up…something like the following would be interesting.
Gomez
Mauer
Young
Morneau
Monroe
Atkins
Kubel
Harris
Tolbert
The way I see it, Mauer should be hitting 2nd, so Gardy should take one of his righties, put him in the 3rd spot, and leave him there until he either goes on the DL or plays so terribly that the Metrodome actually deflates from the suckage he produces.
Shakeups at this point would be helpful, but not at the cost of the young guys. I know the idea of trading Cuddyer would set off some of the more “heated” debates like we saw with the Santana deal, but at the moment Cuddyer was supposed to be this team’s #3 hitter, and he’s not shown that he can do it (he’s barely proven he can be a #5 hitter at it stands).
But…but…they’re competitive. Bill Smith said so.
Saam, you’re right on the nose wrt Gardenhire. Watching the game yesterday the double-switch seemed to be the obvious move. But then that’s why he’s managing a sub .500 team and we’re not.
As for Tolbert, the Twins should have a standing rule. The next player who makes a head-first slide is fined a week’s salary. You don’t get to the base any faster and injury is far more likely to result.
Bulk, “competitive” and “contender” are two different things.
A “competitive” team is one that doesn’t get blown out everyday and can hold its own with the big boys (Boston series)
A “contender” is one that play with the big boys (Boston series) but also doesn’t make mistakes against lousy teams (Toronto series).
The Twins are competitive. They play most of the games close. But their offense and the recent bout of mental mistakes is what’s keeping them from actually contending.
Another thought! Anyone have any thoughts or suggestions about a new hitting coach with real major league success and experience? Hate to criticize but so far I’m not too keen on Vaavra!
The Twins are right around where they should be: .500. After losing Santana, Hunter and Silva in the off season and with the new roster additions, I think all the pundits agreed this would be a rebuilding year. This team does not have the horses to make a sustained run in the division and the loss of Neschek kills the eight inning. You can’t trust Crain and Rincon, so they need to rely on Guerrer to get to Nathan. If and when Selig recommends a team to switch leagues, the Twins should volunteer. How many light-hitting middle infielders can one organization have? Harris. Punto. Everett. Casilla. Tolbert. Buscher.
This team has not had a DH since Chili Davis in 1991. It’s time to switch to the NL! We could swap with St. Louis so they can make Pujols a DH.
Cutting Rincon would be a terrible decision. For one thing, the Twins’ depth for the bullpen is very thin. If another injury happens (Crain and Reyes are coming off injuries) or Korecky blows up, who do they call up? For another, in those six innings you cite as reason to cut Rincon, he has a 1.50 ERA, a 1.17 WHIP and the Twins won three of those games and in the 6-5 loss to Toronto, Rincon pitched a perfect inning. Rincon has performed pretty well, the walks notwithstanding. Only his last two outings were poor and it’s not like he was walking the pitcher with the bases loaded!
Meanwhile, Crain has allowed 7 hits and 5 walks in 4.1 innings since Neshek’s injury. That’s a WHIP of 2.77! Matt Guerrier has an ERA of 4.05 and a WHIP of 1.2 since Neshek’s injury. Not bad, but still worse numbers than Rincon’s. I don’t know how you could justify this move with anyone, especially to the players’ union.
If Graves is coming up, it’s to replace Korecky so that Bass can go back to being just a long reliever, where he’s done a good job, and Graves can be a middle reliever. Honestly, I don’t see how this will help the team because I seriously doubt Graves is going to be much good no matter what he’s done in the minors this year.
Gardy has never been proactive so why would anyone expect it now. Give a pitcher one more batter … bam, failure; give a batter another swing … whiff, failure. How does a player get to the bigs and not have sound fundamentals? The Twins will have to start giving out free tickets because people aren’t going to pay for a bad news effort.
Ha Drop Rincoln… wow… Does anybody know anything about baseball? I guess not… Rincoln makes 2.5 million this season - by dropping him you still have to pay him 2.5 million for doing nothing. Despite his poor play who is going to replace him? You basically throw away a decent relief pitcher and replace him with Ricky Barrett? Give me a break. If he keeps an ERA under 4 and keeps up his strikeout rate he can be traded at the All-Star break. He is a free agent next year so no baggage. The only future prospect out of the Bullpen for the Twins is Zackary Ward in Double A. Yeah releasing Rincoln will send a message of stupidity. Have some loyalty the guy has been around a long time with the Twins and their is value left for a team contending later in the year.
And everybody also talks about Gardy sucking. And you are right he is but the most GLARING issue is Gomez as the leadoff hitter. A guy with a 299 OBP can’t leadoff. It’s that simple. Sure keep him around at the 9th spot. Mauer should leadoff he walks and hits at a torrent pace. He has an OPS of way over 400. He doesn’t get out he gets on base.
I don’t expect any serious shake-up of the roster. Sure, Rincon is probably expendable so if they want to make a move there, that’s fine.
But while it has been fun to take advantage of the unexpected suckage of the Indians and Tigers and flirt with the division lead for a couple of months, this organization’s sight is set on 2009 and 2010. There will be no drastic expulsions or demotions of players identified as core contributors the next couple of years. This is a “learning experience” season.
I would, however, agree that some sort of examination take place concerning whether the right people are doing the teaching. Whether it’s major league staff or minor league instructors (or both), there has clearly been a deterioration of the execution of basic baseball fundamentals. And that applies equally to some of the players and to the manager, who has failed to properly “manage” almost as often as his players have failed to execute lately.
There’s plenty of blame to go around.
Lamb and Everett stunk up the place for Houston. Why would anyone think they would be any better here?
Yes, there is plenty of blame to go around. And with the infamous 2010 date just around the corner Billy Smith needs to do something now. There needs to be momentum going into 2010 and it needs to be of the POSITIVE kind. Not this little league brand of play we have been seeing. As far as I am concerned, Gardy, Ulger, Vavra need to go as well as the punchless weak hitting infielders.
Agree with the Rincon move. I still do not understand why they offered him arbitration and then signed him in the off season. Korecky looks ok in the ‘pen too.
I am sure that there might be teams willing to offer a A player for him.
The single position player that has been the biggest disappointment has been Cuddyer. Another horrible off-season signing, which, unfortunately, would be harder to deal with because of that contract. If the Twins’ were willing to eat half of it, on the other hand…
Another shakeup is needed. This team has been coached and managed horribly. The non-double switch, the non-bunt signs with men on 3 and less than 1 out, the non-bringing Rincon to face Helton at the AB he hit his homer cost that team yesterday. Not to mention the other numerous coaching and managing mistakes this season. Gardy has gotten complacent. In the dugout he reminds me of Tom Kelly with the horrible teams of the late 90s. There is no fire there, Smith should light one. The Twins’ coaches (other than Anderson) are not ‘world class’, the least; a couple of them can pack it…
so, the Twins keep making horrible baserunning errors (happened all of last year, too) and are missing cut-off men and walking pitchers with the bases loaded……
When do the coaches and the manager take some responsibility for such shoddy play? It is a pattern. The baserunning, especially, has been much worse under Gardy than the previous manager.
Also, Gardy needs to be able to bench players and/or let players not play for extended periods of time. It seems like he feels like he has to let everyone play every few days, allowing no one (among the rotated players) to get full confidence or into a rhythm.
The new 2b, SS and 3B appear to be busts. I just hope Gardy (or upper management) don’t hold on too long before doing something about it. When Tolbert and Punto are back, at least one of the new infielders will have to go.
Oh, and Mauer should be able to play every day - just DH him on day-after-night games if need be. Guy is young and fit and, if you believe him and Gardy, his injuries have been on the bases and never behind the plate. Let the guy play every day.
Agreed about Mauer. Has Posada taken day games off during his career?
It’s also time for Gardy to start looking in the mirror a little when he’s deciding where to shoot blame to.
I believe Morris said the Twins were 1 for 12 with RISP during this series, and as he noted, that is flat out unacceptable. This is not a new problem - we are well into year 2 of this problem with occasional outbursts of offense that deludes some into thinking our offense is just fine. To shake things up, I would start with releasing Rincon and replacing Vavra.
One other thought - Cuddyer has not played well since coming back from his early season injury. Why not move him down in the line-up for now and bring up Monroe/Kubel?
Speaking of Cuddyer - someone did mention Cuddyer, right - has anyone else noticed erratic play in right field lately? It appears that he’s not concentrating. Pretty sorrowful for a right fielder who can’t hit.
talk ain’t action
I love that. How about some extra infield? How about filling out a line-up card that does not have Craig Monroe hitting third? It sounds suspicious to me that Gardy is calling out his players and not taking responsibility himself.
The one move they have to make sooner rather than later is to get Harris the heck out of the everyday line-up. I know for a fact that they work with him everyday and he still can’t catch the ball. If a player puts in the work and still never learns, when do do cut bait?
The fact that Tampa requested Bartlett as pat of the DY trade should have given us an idea about the quality of Harris’ defense.
Re: Mauer’s taking games off,
every catcher in every league takes games off at least from playing catcher. Since Posada is mentioned, in his teams 45 games last year (when healthy) he took off 9. Mauer took of 7 of the Twins’ 45 games this year. Some teams (like the Dodgers and Braves) are putting their catchers at 1B when off catching. The Twins cannot do that. What is needed is a better back up catcher…
sup all,
I was just goin through MLB.com and checking on how all our minor leaguer’s were doin and had a name jump out at me that I had never heard before:
P Anthony Slama
0.37 ERA, 16 games, 24.1 IP, 37 K’s.
I know its only A-ball(Ft. Myers), but does anyone know anything about this guy? like where he’s from, drafted, etc…?
On the shakeup front: I would like to see someone like Garrett Atkins in a Twins uniform, BUT, colorado ain’t trading him at the moment, but there is another option on the same team that I have discussed trying to get before. The Rockies have a good AAA 3B prospect stuck there because of Atkins named Ian Stewart.
he’s hitting .289 with 12 HRs and 42 RBI in 41 games for the rockies AAA team. though I do see he also has 14 Errors, far more than anyone else on that roster. But lamb hasn’t looked spectacular in the field either. Just another name to throw out there if we’re talking trades.
Why would Colorado take Cuddyer in a trade for Atkins?
Exactly right, sir. All of the miscues were an awful sight to behold. Nonetheless, Gardy was outmanaged today from the moment he handed in the lineup card. Delmon Young batting second??!?!?! It was a typical “we’re not really trying” Sunday afternoon lineup from Gardy. I’m a little surprised he didn’t find a way to start Casilla.
And it’s more than a little bit of “cognitive dissonance” to hear the same manager who says “we’re gonna let them swing” and “we can’t take away they’re aggressiveness” complaining about how the other pitcher was “trying to walk us” and “we weren’t letting him.” Does he not understand that the two things are even slightly related?
But, it was just a bad game - and there are about 120 left. Hopefully no more like that one.
It may be time to make a move - but I’m not sure simply eating Rincon’s contract is the only choice. Relief pitching is at enough of a premium that there ought to be a motivated buyer out there right now. If not, injuries will make it so within a matter of weeks.
On the other hand, I think it might be worthwhile to let Slowey recover his confidence alongside Liriano in AAA and let Perkins or Mulvey or Humber or another of the young arms get some starts. We’ve got 3 spots open on the 40-man roster and Neshek should be dispatched to the 60-day DL to open another slot.
TR
Cuddyer does not have much trade value. There is no way the Twins can get Atkins for him. And trading him would be accepting that the contract extension was a mistake, which this FO will not do at this point
Harris is a terrible defensive liability,Everett, can’t hit, and Lamb is a below average 3rd baseman.I’d never thought I’d miss Punto, but I do and Tolbert too. Morneau is the only consistant home run threat.Pitching wouldn’t seem so bad if we could score more than 2 runs a game and give them some defense. I was embarrassed on the Twins performance with Colorado and also Toronto.Most of the so called starters on this team need to start playing up to their potential
Lamb…. Chop!
Although a great guy, Redman needs to move to his next career. We need a you catcher to groom.
With the Log jam of OF’s maybe Cuddy needs to move back to the infield.
Go with
Gomez CF
Mauer C
Young LF
Morneau 1B
Monroe DH or RF
Kubel DH or RF
Cuddyer 3B
Harris 2B
Punto SS
It´s hard to win at chess when all you have left is a king, a queen, and a bunch of pawns. Most of the above Twins fans observations are right on target, well thought out and quite perceptive. You could continue playing this chess game, but the outcome is inevitable as your opponent has proven his worth. Perhaps it is best to clear the board and start anew. Admit that other than the Gomez acquisition, the new players are at best mediocre and at worst abomidable. As for Cuddyer, Why do you think the wedding band is never paid until AFTER the reception? The manager and the coaches have had, like Bush´s wars, a media white-wash cheering section to keep us from looking behind the cutrain. Fortunately, we still have enough democracy left in this country to allow us to vote with our feet.
Why don’t we cut Lamb loose and let Buscher have a chance for everyday 3B. He will do no worse for average and in his 80 ABs last year he at least had 2 home runs. Still not a Slugging percentage anywhere close to what a 3B should have, but what have we got to lose.
Although Rincon has not been great, he has been servicable. Meanwhile, it seems like every time Crain makes an appearance we can pretty much count on a loss. Crain keeps on getting breaks for his performance because of his arm issues. The guy is terrible and should not be in the major leagues at this point. Let him sort out his arm issues in the minors and then bring him back if he ever gets it straightend out. Crain is Bob Wells to me.
Here’s an idea Twins fans. If you don’t like how your team is playing, boo them. I know everyone is “Minnesota nice” up here, but it’s okay to show your displeasure if the team is not playing how they are supposed to. You don’t have to put up with bad baseball.
Here is my 2 cents: I am sick of the Minnesota Twins being a training/development grounds for players to become great and then letting them go to other teams once they’ve developed. What it comes down to is money - the unfortunate ‘Bottom Line’. If the Pohlads would loosen up the grip on some of their Benjamins and maybe spend some money then Minnesota might have a fighting chance at winning a World Series. So far it seems the Twins have simply been a training/development grounds for players to become great and then when it takes a little more money to keep them, the ‘higher ups’ dont show up for the bidding and end up letting these great players leave for other teams - all b/c the Twins organization wont spend the money to keep or acquire great players . . . look at Santana, Hunter, etc. Until more money gets spent - things wont change for the Twins. And there is nothing against the guys on the team now - they play hard and do well, but the ‘higher ups’ arent putting (or keeping) great players on the team - but instead they opt for the lower price tag and go for the new, younger guys . . . and the cycle starts again . . . new, younger guys develop into great players with the Twins, their price tag goes up, and the Twins let them go. As an existing veteran player on the team, that would get very frusterating - how are you supposed to win a World Series with that?
Howard (and most of the rest of you), if you hate the Twins so bad, why do you watch them? Wouldn’t it be a better use of your time and better for your high blood pressure to watch a team you like? If teams gave refunds for every poorly played game, there wouldn’t be professional sports for you to constantly criticize. And guess what, criticizing this team does nopt make you a genius which some of you think you are. It’s amazing to me how little most of you know about baseball. Odds are good most of you never played it. Sports are for enjoyment, not to give yourself ulcers and heart attacks when a player makes a base running mistake. None of you on this blog who criticize Gardenhire are even qualified to sniff his jock. He is one of the best and most respected managers in the league and has always done a great job with what he has to work with. Nothing is easier than monday morning quarterbacking as you all do. It’s sad that negativity gets the most attention. Way to play into that, Howard.
Good column.
Rincon needs to go. I don’t think they should bother trying to trade him he has no value.
Lamb should make way for Buscher
He can’t possible hit worse than Lamb
Stupid baseball should be punished immediately so the player is aware that he won’t play if he plays bush league.
I want to see Humber get a chance in the bullpen. He’s not cutting it as a starter in AAA. Plus he was perfect in 9 relief appearances in spring training. I haven’t seen him alot but what I did see was a guy with good hard stuff but doesn’t change speed enough to be a starter.
We’ll see Graves first and maybe that will work.
they need for Gardenhire to accept responsiblity is long overdue, and the guy truly seems to manage this team with his eyes and ears closed. this link to a NYTimes article on the yankees/mets game on sunday should be required reading for Gardy. Girardi at least knows who to blame for the team’s bad showing….
check it out…
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/19/sports/baseball/19yankees.html?ref=sports
I’m not sure what the front office thought would happen with the line up they put together. Mike Lamb could be the worst 3rd baseman I’ve scene in a long time and it doesn’t help that our best fielder is sitting on the bench. Other than that; we need to give the young kids some time to develop. I don’t remember Hunter and Jones winning any gold gloves thier first two seasons in the Bigs.
Was at the games this weekend and just wanted to say: Nice Stadium…..hope the Twins new one turns out well; We will always struggle in National League Parks as our bench is so weak. When you add a few injuries to that we are in a world of hurt when it comes to switches; Gardy left Slowey out there to try and get him a win, and some confidence. That is what good managers do with young pitchers early in the year. There was no other reason to leave him in as everyone could see he was running out of gas; Everett’s effort on the pop fly was one of the worst I’ve ever seen by a major league player. He was just LAZY. Don’t know if they showed it on TV but Lamb was going to bat for Everett if the game continued and I think Gardy just wanted to make it very clear what he thought of that effort.
The only bright spots from this series is it looks like D Young might be heating up finally. I think the Twins are missing a true leader. I’m sorry Cuddy but it’s hard to be a leader when your hitting .240 and making bonehead plays in the outfield. Justin is the guy who should be the leader but i just don’t think he’s got it in him.
Ha, I wanted to pull Slowey in the 6th (after he got Matt Holliday(?) out) before he faced the left-handed-hitting Todd Helton. His pitch count must have been near 90 at that point, and, with the Twins taking the lead in the previous 1/2 inning and with Slowey being winless, to that point, I would have handed it over to the bullpen then. And, yes, I agree with cutting Rincon loose…
Leave these guys alone they’re trying!
When Punto gets back we’ll go on a win streak, he’s the guy who stirs the pot, plays gold glove infield (and outfield if needed) drives in runs and makes Gardy a better manager.
Gardy just has his hands tied with his best player out.
Girardi’s quote from the NY Times is worth posting here; Gardy should take a hint:
“We all have to do better,” Girardi said. “It starts with me. Put it on me. We need to play better, we need to pitch better, we need to play better defense. This was probably the toughest week that we’ve had offensively, but that’s not the sole reason that we’re 20-24. It comes down to all aspects of the game.”
Asked specifically what he could do better, Girardi said: “I’m the leader. I’ve got to find something. It all comes back to the leader, and the leader has to take charge. We have to find a way to win games.”
I can”t believe from these posts that anyone is a Twins fan!
!0 Gardy has the lost the team. LOL.
2) Bring Graves up–yes yes best one really.
3) Fire Vavra..well maybe a reasgin yet his firs year the team was up on top.
4) Move to national league–LOL..actually they are playing like it.
5) Get rid of Lamb…6.5 mil he makes to next season.
6) young starting to hit..he is on his way.
The team acquired players, had to trade their ace pitcher, lost 2 free agents and the team is 2 games out of first place…..almost .500.
New faces still take time to jell as a team and Twins way is still being implemented.
Win Twins!
keep,
Anthony Slama is from SoCal (Garden Grove, Ca.
Mater Dei H.S. (Santa Ana, Ca.)
University of San Diego.
Twins drafted him in 39th round in 2006.
I coached him in travel ball when he was 15/16 yrs old.
The amazing thing about him is that, as he advanced from USD-Freshman to USD sophomore to Rookie Ball to Low-A to High-A (now at Fort Myers), his stats have gotten better and better as the level has gotten tougher and tougher.
I don’t mean marginally better.
I mean significantly better every year and every jump in level.
For Anthony Slama’s stats:
http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/S/Anthony-Slama.shtml
Here are the totals for D. Young for May:
62 AB .323/.364/.403 and .767 OPS
Since he does not walk much, his batting average will need to be in the .300+ range.
Now,the question is, can he boost that ISO power of .08?
Kay,
“Asked specifically what he could do better, Girardi said: “I’m the leader. I’ve got to find something. It all comes back to the leader, and the leader has to take charge. We have to find a way to win games.””
I would say that Girardi’s answer contained NOTHING which fell under the request for “What SPECIFICALLY…?
In fact, that answer is evading the question. Nothing specific in the answer.
“The Rockies have a good AAA 3B prospect stuck there because of Atkins named Ian Stewart.”
The reports I’ve read from places like ESPN and FOX Sports is that the Rox would prefer to go with Stewart and trade Atkins instead of vice versa.
As to why the Rockies would want Cuddyer, the bigger trade talks surrounding them at the moment involve Matt Holiday.
So if they lose Holiday, they might need an OF. Cuddyer’s arm can be an asset in that huge outfield, it’s just a matter of his contract.
Cuddyer/Atkins would not likely be straight up. I’d expect there to be some minor league players involved.
And yeah, it would be admitting that the signing wasn’t the best idea by the Twins FO, but I think the message it would send ot the clubhouse (we won’t tolerate people not earning they’re keep) as well as what it would show fans at home (we’re willing to make drastic changes to fix issues) could be beneficial.
I could see some fans trying to argue it’s another cheap skate move by Pohlad and Co, but it needs to be done.
As far as Sunday’s lineup….Gardy really didn’t have much in the way of options.
The pitcher has to be in there, that takes away the ninth spot.
Casilla or Everett at SS is more the lesser of evils vs. one or hte other.
Lamb could be in the lineup, but he wouldn’t have a place anywhere higher than 6th in an NL lineup.
Mauer got a day off. OH NOES he doesn’t play everyday. Not a lot of catchers do. Those that do play at other positions, and as one perosn pointed out…the Twins already have a guy at 1B who isn’t too shabby.
So if we all agree that Monroe, Lamb, Young, and Harris have no place in the lineup (or at least no place hitting above Morneau…then what kind of lineup can Gardy put together?
hey sane,
thanks a lot for the info. (I had already looked up his stats and stuff on the cube, but I wanted some other info like what you just gave)
if you coached him, do you know anything about his stuff? what he throws and is good at? what needed improvement?
Greg,
I have been trying to wait for Lamb.
We can only wait so long! Start to hit or your D liability isn’t worth it!
If Graves is a joke, and I’m not saying he isn’t, them how do we fix our bullpen?
Crain needs to step up and solidify the set-up role. If that happens then maybe the bullpen fixes itself. Right now Rincon needs to go. He is a liability at this point and the least liked current Twin. He’s never been major league material without the juice.
Graves over Rincon. Humber over both of them!
I think it is interesting that Gardy is getting a fair amount of the blame for the Twins’ current situation. While losses ultimately fall on the manager’s shoulders, it seems worth mentioning that Gardy has, with consistency, been very diplomatic about the Twins’ belt-tightening over the years. Realistically, he couldn’t have been too thrilled to lose Hunter and Santana at the same time, and in this current season alone a majority of the starters have missed some time for injuries. Gardy, however, sticks with the same formula that has worked historically for this organization. There could have been a lot of complaining on his end, but that would have been very unprofessional.
What we are seeing now is product of belt-tightening: several players expected to compete at the major league level who simply cannot consistently play at that level. Whether they need time, or whether they will ever obtain success is really out of Gardy’s hands. He has to play the players he has been dealt. Blame belongs to management, and also to those of our veterans who are not playing up to their contracts.
I’ve been puzzling over Rincon for the past couple of years. His stuff actually still seems to be good. His fastball is registering 92-94 on the radar gun, and his slider seems to have good action and velocity. If the problem is that he can’t throw strikes, maybe he’d benefit from a change of scenery.
keep,
He has a sinker (2-seam fastball - low 90’s) - and a slider from a LOW 3/4 arm angle.
Very difficult to hit the ball in the air off him. Gives up about one HR per year.
When I coached him he was about 6′-1″ 150#, age 15.
Now he is 6-3″, 190#, age 23.
HUGE difference in strength.
T - if you’ve heard that as far as Atkins/Stewart, we’ve read conflicting reports.
But, I will say that I just don’t see a team trading its BEST player at the moment over a AAA prospect who has 43 career MLB at bats unless they don’t think they can sign him, and I don’t even know if thats an issue with him. And there have been Atkins trade rumors the past couple seasons but they never pulled the trigger because he was playing so well. This year he’s started off even better than any of the past 2.
But whatever, go after them then, I’d be happy with either so its a wash anyway.
good stuff today T agree on the atkins take, brought that up last week no one seemed to care. there have been rumors for a while he is available. i could see sending cuddy and a pitcher, only guys i’d want to keep are baker, perkins and blackburn. i think those guys are the rotation core for the next several years, hoping liriano gets back sometime this summer. problem is our minor league is kind of bare for tradeable prospects or guys to bring up if we we cut 6 guys.
keep,
If the Twins leave Slama as a one-inning relief pitcher, he needs to change almost nothing.
If he becomes a long reliever, he probably needs to develop a change-up.
He was a very quiet, polite 15-yr-old, but after 2 years at USD, I am guessing that stage is over.
sane - thanks again. I hope he keeps it up and moves up through the system. Sounds like a good kid and appears to be a steal if they got him in Round 39 and he keeps it up.
Well, comparing his stats in the minors and Nesheks, they look pretty similar, I’d say keep him as a set up guy, he seems to thrive there, why change it?
Thanks Shameless. At least I didnot get thrown under the bus.
I want lamb to doget going to and hope he can perform. i like the way he stands ready in the field!
Win Twins. We have over 121 games to go!!!!
Thanks Shameless, at least i wasn”t thrown under the bus! I hope Lamb get its going! He should do well here. I love his stance when he is in the field.
Win Twins we still have over 121 games to go.
howard, I agree with your logic on Rincon. He needs to go… he’s a wlaking flame thrower every time he enters a game it does not go well. Maybe the arm is done and he can coach somewhere in the organization. Seems like that happened to a few of our relievers, we cut them off and they go away. Who was the guy we sent to the Angles and he was out of baseball after 12 months. Same thing here with Rincon.
Someone mentioned it already but this notion of the Twins having a great farm system is seriously flawed. Mauer, Morneau and Cuddyer are the only position players brought up through our system. Slowey, Blackburn, Perkins, Baker also, but these are #3-#5 type guys.
The sad fact is, there is nobody down on the farm that is cant miss. Look at other organizations, they have STUDS that are in AA and AAA. We have a bunch of pirahna types (Revere, Span) and a crapload of #4 starters. The future doesnt look bright I’m afraid….
line dr.:i think you are talking about jc romero and he signed a nice contract this winter. don’t know how he is doing this yr. i think we got casilla for him???
Yeah, Romero was traded after 2005 for Casilla. He’s making a nice little living in Philly as a LOOGY. 21 games, 18 IP and a scrawny 1.50 ERA.
Rincon is one of Gardy’s boys he does things the right way (except for the roids)unlike Romero and Lohse. He’s not going anywhere.
BC,
“He’s not going anywhere”
I’m not so sure.
If his arm had been healthy in December, he would now be in Tampa Bay as part of the Delmon-Garza trade.
I haven’t trusted Rincon since he gave up that 3-run jack to Ruben friggin’ Sierra in the 2004 ALDS. My stomach is still lodged in my kneecaps from that debacle.
btw, Eduardo Morlan’s 2008 Pitching Statistics
TEAM LEAGUE W L ERA
Montgomery (SL) AA 0 0 8.10
Can anybody help me with this? Who is the number 3 catcher on the Twins roster (if there is one)? If not, could that be the reason that the earlier mentioned double switch involving Redmond and Mauer was missed? Waiting to hear. Thanks sane for the background on Slama!
daniel,
No.3 catcher is Lamb, I’m pretty sure.
If the twins don’t try and make a move before the trade deadline this year they are going to lose a lot of fans. Everyone is getting sick of them always talking about the holes and who is not producing, and then doing nothing about it. We need to make a move not only for this club to get better, but also to hold fan support.
Yeah, I heard that Lamb caught a few games in the minors and a couple more in Houston (though I haven’t looked it up). Kind of thin right now. However, at least we are carrying two catchers (unlike Detroit, for example). I remember cringing when I heard Inge was starting at catcher when Pudge needed a day off…
Rincom sans juice = spare
sane the problem is even Tampa didn’t wan’t him thats why he’ll be hard to move. Finding someone to take Nesheks role is going to be a problem.
I thought Justin was the emergency catcher.
twinsfan, considering the team is at a point where they’re looking more at youth vs. short term help….it’s difficult to see potential trades.
Most of the “older” talent is essentially worthless on its own (Lamb, Everett, Monroe) while the younger guys that are expendable (Kubel, Casilla) aren’t exactly lighting it up this year.
Livan is valuable to this team as long as it is within striking distance of the division, provided he continues to perform at his current level of success.
Cuddyer has been frustrating, but would still be an attractive option (provided the Twins can supplement him with some other minor league talent). He’s currently the only guy on our big league staff that would be both “expendable” and likely worth something. Kubel could potentially draw some interest….but considering his knee “issues” it may be tough to get an NL team to bite.
Thanks to injuries to the middle infield, and the loss of Baker, Neshek, and Liriano’s lack of progress…the pitching staff and bullpen (at the major league level) isn’t exactly ripe with potential trade bait either.
You have to give quality to get quality.
The boys surprised us when the were in first and clobbered the Red Sox pitching … but that was just a nice surprise. The real team should be applauded if they finish above .500.
I like the young guys … Gomez, DY, Tolbert, etc … they really hustle and show fire. I like M&M and Nathan (what’s not to like).
But I HATE LAMB. there was play ( I think against Toronto) where the guy on 2nd would’ve been caught in a rundown, but the pitcher threw it away into LF. Lamb instead of faking having the ball and keeping him in retreat (he didnt see the ball pass) just like gave up… he just slouched his shoulders and stared at LF with his hands to his side. I know if it was me… i’d at least fake having the ball. from that day i knew he was just a bum. he shows no fire. ditto to what’s said above re: Everett and Harris.
“sane the problem is even Tampa didn’t wan’t him thats why he’ll be hard to move.”
Tampa Bay would’ve accepted Rincon as part of the Garza/Young trade.
There were questions about an injury that were holding up the deal (elbow or shoulder…can’t recall) and the Twins quickly decided to replace Rincon with Morlan to prevent the deal from falling through.
“but the pitcher threw it away into LF. Lamb instead of faking having the ball and keeping him in retreat (he didnt see the ball pass) just like gave up…”
That would work if you were basing your plan on the assumption that nobody for the Blue Jays (including the 3B coach who would be staring right at Lamb) saw the ball go flying into LF.
To danimals,
You say that you like the way DY hustles…..please provide an example. He needs to sit a few games and get his head right with ball as the expression goes. DY seems to be preoccupied with his consecutive game played streak. I keep thinking about Livans bid for a perfect game and Young doesn’t even dive for the ball. I’m coming around to Carl Crawfords thinking.
Bottomline we won’t make any trades.
If we fall far out of contention and a trade does happen it will be Nathan to go he’s the only one tradeable with value.
Didn’t Delmond Young have seven hits in the last three games? Just Curious.
come on guys, you’re being a little hard and nitpicky with Delmon, He hasn’t had any of the problems here that got him run out of tampa bay.
Nobody has said how he’s been a bad teammate, nobody has said that he doesn’t listen to coaches, he’s just taking a little while to get going hitting wise and you guys are trying to make him into what he was in Tampa to justify your feelings on the Twins play the last 2 series.
Do not compare his attitude in Tampa to his attitude here, because its a Night and Day difference and you know it.
The only thing I would like to see with Delmon is for him to become more patient at the plate, not Mauer patient, but at least get to some 2-0 and 3-1 counts sometimes. Hitters who hit well above .300 do that all the time because they know they are going to get a better pitch to swing at in those counts than on the first pitch or 0-1, 0-2, 1-2 like he seems to always be in because he hacks at almost everything.
Being far too hard on Delmon, and if you want him to turn into Tampa delmon keep it up. In some cases I think the fans are imploding this team.
How many of you honestly expected the twins to be .500 right now or in 1st when they were? it should have been NOBODY, then all of the sudden they are playing well and in 1st place and immediately everyone goes back to expecting nothing but greatness and anything short of that is terrible. They’ve had 2 bad series in a row (granted, pretty pretty bad) but EVERY TEAM has that during the course of a season. Quit expecting ferrari performance when your driving a fiat. ridiculous.
Give Buscher a chance. The Twins haven’t played him consistently enough to know what he can do…..He has shown that he is a very good hitter at AAA because of consistent at-bats. If he was given the 3rd base position and given the at-bats Lamb has had, I promise you all of Minnesota would be suprized..His defense is greatly improved as well and he is by far the best option for the Twins.
I can’t believe they call up Howie Clark and need another ‘middle’ infielder yet play him at 3rd base. Clark hasn’t played 3rd base all year at Rochester…….Again, Buscher has bee consistent and shown some power in his bat with six homers.
All I am saying is give him a chance…..And I don’t mean a 15 day stint while someone is on the DL and play maybe to games and a few at bats.
Be fair to him and play him consistently and the Twins will see that they have solved their 3rd base problems…
T says:
May 19th, 2008 at 1:22 pm
“That would work if you were basing your plan on the assumption that nobody for the Blue Jays (including the 3B coach who would be staring right at Lamb) saw the ball go flying into LF.”
Lamb gave him just enough time to turn back around from near 2nd and score. Initially the runner had his back to the throw, didnt see error, and was heading back to 2nd. When he looked back, he saw Lamb drifting back to 3rd, dejected look into the outfield. True, the 3rd base coach should be yelling, but in that situation a nice fake by Lamb wouldn’t hurt and if a runner going toward 3rd sometimes gets crossed up with his coach’s instruction, just imagine how much harder it would be in a situation like that? Lamb showed no brains, but it was more than that - he’s a veteran and his body language just said all the wrong things.
T
Are you sure that was the only reason?
Too Young to play everyday,
“You say that you like the way DY hustles…..please provide an example. ”
You’re right, i dont have any examples per say. but it’s just a general impression based on his style of play. but that’s separate issue from your point of not treating him like Cal Ripken, which i agree with. he’s 22 and will be good, IMHO.
“Lamb gave him just enough time to turn back around from near 2nd and score. Initially the runner had his back to the throw, didnt see error, and was heading back to 2nd. When he looked back, he saw Lamb drifting back to 3rd, dejected look into the outfield. True, the 3rd base coach should be yelling, but in that situation a nice fake by Lamb wouldn’t hurt and if a runner going toward 3rd sometimes gets crossed up with his coach’s instruction, just imagine how much harder it would be in a situation like that? Lamb showed no brains, but it was more than that - he’s a veteran and his body language just said all the wrong things.”
that is honestly one of the most r-tarded baseball game playing related comments I have ever read. There is NO WAY you can blame a play like that on a guy who didn’t ‘fake’ that he had the ball. I’m sure the crowd reaction or them going ‘oooooohhhh’ or ‘go! go! go! go!’ would have a much larger impact than him seeing the 3rd baseman standing ‘dejected’. Did you happen to see what the 2nd basemen did? did he fake like it was an awesome throw or did he have the look of ‘oh crap’ on his face? maybe the runner saw him and its his fault… would you feel better if lamb had taken off running after the ball? that would have been more obvious I think…
stupid logic, very stupid.
Keep (blah blah blah),
I think you’re just not getting the point. It’s not about what could’ve/would’ve happened. it’s about effort and gamesmanship. you HONESTLY think that the runner wouldnt have a slight moment of hesitation if Lamb tried to hold him for a second with a fake. its such an automatic huh? i’ve been watching games for 25 yrs and have never seen such a poor body language as lamb had for that type situation. it was just bad! the guys scored from 2nd EASILY from a soft toss into LF. come on!!
As poorly as the Twins have been playing of late, the last thing I want them to be worrying about is whether they should try to fake on plays where only guys whose heads are in the wrong place might get caught. Hit the ball. Throw the ball. Catch the ball. That’s all they need to be working on right now.
if he scored ‘EASILY’ from second then I don’t think it would have mattered a shred danimals. you should take a debate class.
put harris at third and sub second around. lamp doesn’t even look like a ball player.
i agree ditch rincon and tell slowey if he can only go 5 ing. he’s now a middle releiver
Wasn’t it Mr. Young who retrieved Jesse Crain’s errant throw to Lamb as it nestled in the Twin’s bullpen? Sounds like some hustle was involved there.
Keep, you’re such a fool and getting lost in the wrong points. i dont think you’ve ever played a pickup game, let alone competitive sports. If you had even seen the play, i’d give you some credit. but you didnt see the play and you missed my point.
looking for “debates” on post it boards instead of having a decent discussion makes you look like a loser!!! go back to trolling for underage girls or whatever you do when not here!! FOOL.
Garza’s last outing this past Saturday vs STL…4 1/3 innings, 10 hits, 7R, 6ER, 2BB, 1K. ERA is now 4.86. I do miss Bartlett’s athleticism and ability to seemingly come through with two out hits while he played with the Twins.
Anthony Slama is 24 years old pitching in High-A ball. That’s like a senior in high school pitching to 7th graders. Sorry, but that don’t translate well in the big leagues.
Bench Delmon now?
Just as he is getting his stroke?
Terrible idea.
Daniel
Twins fans who don’t miss Bartlett right now are probably in the minority. Punto and Tolbert are out, I’m not too high on Casilla and Everett’s supposed great defense–which was supposed to make up for his putrid bat–hasn’t materialized. The middle infield is a mess right now.
Switch Bonser and Guerrier. We’ll see how he does tonight, but Boof seems to be susceptible for the big bad inning. Leave him out there long enough and it will eventually happen. If you put him in the bullpen, you can send him out for 1-2 innings or until he gets a few people on base, then replace him. Guerrier has started before and could stretch out to be a good starter. He has matured a lot, can throw up to 92 mph has a great curve and could be a solid 4 or 5 starter. We need another 4.00 ERA guy right now. Sure, Guerrier’s been good in the bullpen, but we need more quality starters to take the strain off the pen right now.
Starting 5:
1) Livan
2) Baker (when healthy)
3) Blackburn
4) Perkins
5) Guerrier
Fry
Guerrier isn’t an option for a fifth starter. He could be a spot starter in an emergency, but nothing more.
Fred,
College guys pitch hi-rookie at 22, Low-A at 23, and Hi-A at 24 with normal one-promotion per year advancement.
There is a 25-yr-old and three 24-yr-old pitchers at Fort Myers and the average age is about 23 for the whole roster. Slama is not like “a senior in high school pitching to 7th graders”.
More like a Senior pitching to Seniors and Juniors and a couple Sophomores.
Like real life.
saam, I think Guerrier could. Granted, he would have to stretch out over time but he could get there. Age and maturity wise, he is where we want all the new young pitchers to be in 3-4 years. He has the starter’s “long body,” the velocity and variety of pitches that a good starter needs.
My bet is that by switching Boof with Guerrier - it could be 3-4 more wins and/or 3-4 less losses by season’s end. In a division where everybody is around .500 it could help.
As I recall, the Twins had a pitcher named Dave Goelz (sp?) who pitched for them in the 1970’s. I mention this only because Mr. Goelz also had a problem with getting behind in the first inning. The Twins coaches were perplexed because he invariably would settle down and pitch quite well thereafter. I believe they helped Goelz get through his dilemma by having warm up (game ready), sitting him down for ten + minutes, and warming up briefly again. The illusion was to get him into a 2nd inning state of mind. He went on to win 20 games in ‘78 or ‘79. I wonder if such a tactic would help Mr. Bonser?
Daniel1966,
Who did you expect to retrieve the errant throw when it ends up in the left field fould ground area? Just because the left fielder gets that ball doesn’t mean there was any “hustle” involved. I keep thinking that during the sixth inning of a potential perfect game by the best starting pitcher for my team, I’d show some “hustle” by diving for a fly ball. Of course there’s no guarantee he’d have caught it but that would have been an example of a good teammate displaying some real hustle.
sorry howard didn’t read the headline close enough to recognize this was your howard beale impersonation….. just thinking of faye dunaway in her prime!
The Twins need to come to the realization that this IS A REBUILDING year, and play accordingly.I don’t care if they are treading water in a weak division.Anyone looking objectively can see this team has major holes.Bill Smith tried to fill some gaps and stay “competitive” but its not working.
There was talk in the paper today about Gardenhire getting ready to make changes until the injuries to Tolbert and Punto piled up.Make them as soon as they are healthy.Put Punto at second until Tolbert is ready,then make him the secondbaseman.Harris might be better suited at third,he can’t do any worse than Lamb.Everett,who was signed as a one year stop gap,should be shown the door and replaced by Casilla.
The Twins IMO need to give Casilla the same rope they are giving Gomez.I realize Gomez has a ton more ability than Casilla,but Gomez has been given plenty of oportunities to screw up and not be sent to the dog house.Casilla,two years removed from being the Twins Minor League Player of the Year,needs to be given the same chance,if he is still in the Twins long term plans.
Once Baker is healthy,Slowey needs to be put in the Bullpen,where his average stuff might keep him in the Big Leagues long enough to earn his pension.He doesn’t have the pitches to get hitters out more than one time through the order.If and when Liriano comes back another decision will have to be made.Although he has looked good in his two starts, Perkins might benifit the Twins more as a second Lefty option out of the bullpen.
I don’t by the theory that Crain should be given some slack because he is coming off an injury.If he can’t throw strikes because he is recoving from said injury, he should be doing it In AAA just like Liriano.
There, I feel better already.Now if someone would just listen. LOL!
Too,
“I’d show some “hustle” by diving for a fly ball. Of course there’s no guarantee he’d have caught it”
If he dives and misses, he has gambled to prevent a hit and has maybe given up potential run(s) in the process.
No-hitters are PERSONAL achievements, but runs allowed can lead to losses and those are TEAM failures.
Who has more homeruns thus far…. DY or Adam Everett? I know, I know…..DY has him on doubles….six to five and two more triples. What can we expect from a LF compared to a big hitting SS like Everett?
Hey Daniel i like that idea. What differance does pitch count make if he can get through the first inning. Both Radke and Santana had similar problems of giving up runs early just not as many as Boof.
Sane,
That ball wasn’t going to get any further away from him either way. He didn’t get a glove on it when he tried his wimping slide catch and no run scored. Do you really think he was jeopardizing an inside the park homerun or an extra base if he had dove? You must have saw a different play that I did.
Perkins and Guerrier have been a combination of starters and relievers over the past couple years. They have some experience and some savvy to earn a spot in the rotation as 4th, 5th starters. I think Slowey and Boof need to go the ‘pen and become relievers for at least this year or when they can prove command over enough good pitches. Then in a year or two maybe they can move up to starters too.
Everybody chant with me.. ‘VAVRA MUST GO..VAVRA MUST GO!!!’
all this talk of lack of hustle and mental mistakes all point back to Gardy and his reign(of terror) The team needs a strong leader to get them focused.. Gardy obviously isn’t it . he is too busy excusing his terrible hitters - “we ran into a buzzsaw today” “we had some chances today the pitcher just made the plays” “we have to just get after it”
Mr. BC of ND, You would probably have like Dave Goltz. As I recall, he was from western MN…Pelican Rapids comes to mind. He was a burly 6-2 to 6-4 and threw a good fastball but his out pitch was a knuckle curve. Too Young… should I conclude that you’re not one of Delmond Young’s biggest fans?
Too,
If the ball was a bloop going nowhere, then you are right. That is when an OF should lay out in an attempt to catch the ball.
Potential gapper for an extra base hit? then the OF must not let it get by him even if it means letting it land.
I didn’t see the play so I will go by your description.
Doug
It is pretty unlikely that Casilla could win, let alone keep, an every day job as long as Gardy’s the manager. He would be replaced by Punto as soon as he made one of his inevitable mistakes.
Have we fired, cut, released and knee-capped everyone yet?
Speak up quickly.
We don’t want anyone to be left out.
Daniel1966,
I guess I’m just very dissappointed in his play when it appears he has so much natural talent. I think he needs a kick in the rear to get him jump-started. Something to get his attention that more is expected from him and this type of performance won’t be tolerated any longer.
Sane,
That ball DID get by him for an extra base hit. What exactly did DY have to lose by diving for it? There was no one on base (remember - it was a perfect game). What play were you watching?
Daniel i’ve never heard of him but i checked his stats and his numbers weren’t that bad. He actually won 20 games in 77. If that doesn’t work for Boof maybe wearing a garter or something might help.
Sane I added 1 more for you benefit
sane says:
May 19th, 2008 at 3:36 pm
Have we fired, cut, released and knee-capped everyone yet?
Speak up quickly.
We don’t want anyone to be left out.
sane i’m just happy it’s multi player bashing instead of the onslaught on LNP like last year.
Boof in a garter… (throwing up!!)
maybe that can be the punishment the next time a player makes another boneheaded mental error
Too Young, I’m sure that we can all empathize with your feelings of disappointment. It’s hell being a fan, hey? Hang in there. As an aside, it seems that the competitive nature of the team was higher when, prior to all the injuries, there seemed to be a competent replacement waiting in the wings. Whenever aany position or status is given without being earned, it can bring about an element oflethargy.
tonights lineup:
1) mauer c
2) morneau 1b
3) redmond 3b
4) livan of
all the other players have been cut, traded or sent to aaa today.
saam- While I agree with you that it is highly unlikely Gardenhire will ever let Casilla out of the dog house,I think that if the Twins have any plans for him in the future,Gardy needs to learn to live with those mistakes and see if Casilla can learn from them.
Gomez has made plenty of mistakes the first six weeks.Defensively,offensively,and on the basepaths,but as the center piece to the Santana trade, he seems to be getting a lot more freedom to make those mistakes and keep playing.
Everett does nothing for this team now and certainly not in the future.And I happen to think Punto has value as a utility guy.If Casilla doesn’t pan out then there will be another search for a new SS next winter Given his young age he deserves a chance during what is shaping up to be a long season.As always IMO.
I think Boof needs to gain weight to get better…might make it hard to wear a garter though
Doug
I agree 100%. I just don’t see Casilla getting an every day job unless he really catches fire which is pretty tough to do when you are on the bench.
Everything will get better when Punto gets back!
Punto will make a great coach or manager he can teach these loafers how to slide into first.
All these guys need to dive at more balls and slide head first more often and show they’re getting after it.
Mr. Munson, You might have something there re: Casilla. Also, regarding Bonser, do the Twins utilize in season conditioning? He may have lost 30 ugly pounds but he still looks frumpy on the mound. Some ab work looks like it might help and, who knows, maybe he’ll lose another 10-15 lbs. and finally look like an athlete.
sane says:
May 19th, 2008 at 3:36 pm
Have we fired, cut, released and knee-capped everyone yet?
Speak up quickly.
We don’t want anyone to be left out.
What about Brian Bass? I’m pretty sure he’s made at least one mistake… Or Reyes - didn’t he walk a guy yesterday?
Daniel1966- I think this is a big start for Bonser.He hung his hat on pitching fairly well and not getting any support at the start of the season But he has been awfull his last three starts.The problem is ,until Baker is healthy and Liriano shows he is ready to contribute,guys like Bonser and Slowey will get run out there.Its called starting by default.
it was “catch and release” on Bass
.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸ >
Doug: We can do better - Start Guerrier, send Boof to the ‘pen
Fry Dog- Guerrier is the only reliable righty we have in the bull pen right now besides Nathan. IMO he needs to stay.Once Baker is back ,and if Liriano can find himself, we might be able to look at Bonser and Slowey in the pen,where they probably belong.
The Things I would do if GM:
1. If Rockies are interested, trade Livan, Cuddyer, and top prospect for Atkins.
2. Cut Everett, demote Lamb and Harris to bench, and have Atkins, Punto, Tolbert start at 3B, SS, 2B.
(Granted in limited ABs, I think Punto is better this year, and definetely better than Everett offensively, defensively, and on the base paths, and in the energy/ignitor role).
3. Cut (or attempt) to trade Rincon and Crain bring up Graves, Mulvey, and Humber
4. DO NOT BRING IN REYES EVERY TIME FOR SIRUATIONAL HITTING!!! (especially when Guerer is in a grove
5. Maker Guerrer perminent opition for holds and tie games.
OF: Young,Gomez,Monroe
IF: Atkins,Punto,Tolbert,Morneau,Mauer
Bench:Redmond,Cassila,Lamb,Span,?
Hopeful Batting Order:
CF-Gomez
LF-Young
C-Mauer
1B-Morneau
3B-Atkins
DH-Kubel
RF-Monroe
2B-Tolbert
SS-Punto
Slowly does not belong in the pen!!!
Tyler - You are right.He probably belongs back in AAA, but I’ll bet given the choice he would take the pen over AAA.
Doug
He does not belong in either, He belongs in the starting rotation. Are we watching the same pitcher? He has done a very good job so far after recovering from surgery. His only issue is endurance which he will recover probably in his next 2/3 starts.
Doug, I hear you, but at the same time just because a guy does well in the ‘pen doesn’t mean he has to stay there. Guerrier over 2007 and 2008 is about a 3.00 ERA, has good velocity, a great curve and a long body that can stretch out into more innings. Can’t say that for Boof (89 mph, not a lot of ball movement, high ERA). Boof always has that big blow up inning. If he’s in the pen he can come out for 1-2 innings and be pulled if he’s not on. Who knows this might be the role for him to eventually develop into a quality starter. In the meantime, we need another quality starter to take the pressure of the pen. I think its more likely another good reliever will emerge than a starter.
Fry Dog
Guerrier is not going to become a “quality starter.”
With everyone on our current team now cut, traded or released, I am starting on the replacement players.
Please cut Atkins. I can’t take 50% more errors a year than Lamb (currently projected based on 6 to 4 errors).
LOL
saam, sure he can. He has the stuff and has matured a lot. If he was coming up right now as a minor leaguer, he’d most likely be cast as a potential starter and the bloggers would be asking for him to start over Boof, Slowey, etc….
Tyler -Yes, are we watching the same pitcher?What surgery are you refering to? In 86 big league innings he has given up 22 HR.He doesn’t have the pitches to get through a lineup more than once.Yesterday was another example of him throwing to many pitches(over 100 in 5 2/3 innings),losing command as he tired,elavating the ball in the strike zone,and feeding his gopher again.it’s been his MO nearly every start in the ML.He doesn’t have one above average ML pitch.Sounds like Bullen material to me.
Fry Dog
Guerrier isn’t coming up right now. He will be 30 this summer and has a total of three starts at the ML level. Besides, he’s doing well where he is. Why mess with success?
“We don’t want anyone to be left out.”
Don’t forget Wally The Beerman. I’m sure he’s been involved in this mess somehow…
“The Twins need to come to the realization that this IS A REBUILDING year, and play accordingly.”
They have. I think its the fans who need to catch up with the FO.
There’s a difference between “competitive” and “contender”.
The Twins are playing competitive close battles. But the “closeness” against teams like Toronto and Colorado is why they aren’t a contender.
saam, mess with it because the rotation is not working. In the long run, a good quality starting rotation is more important than a great bullpen. Its also easier to develop more middle inning relievers than a good starter. Guerrier would be more valuable to the Twins if he were to be an above .500 starter.
On his age…exactly, he might have been an unproven/unknown 5 years ago when the Twins didn’t have a starting spot for him. Now he’s maturing and has a lot more to offer today than Boof or some of the other young arms. Let the young, struggling guys with promise develop in the middle innings if they can’t cut it yet as a starter.
On the other hand, this is a young team, sprinkled with mediocre veterans (and a few prime time stars who are holding up their end of the bargain usually) that just isn’t any better than .500 and isn’t more than marginally coached anyway (Anderson is the only one I would rank as above average). Competing for a division title? that’s silly talk anyway…
saam, I rest my case…
dangit Reyes…
and sorry but I had to respond to this post as I left work and never saw it until now…
“danimals says:
May 19th, 2008 at 2:23 pm
Keep, you’re such a fool and getting lost in the wrong points. i dont think you’ve ever played a pickup game, let alone competitive sports. If you had even seen the play, i’d give you some credit. but you didnt see the play and you missed my point.
looking for “debates” on post it boards instead of having a decent discussion makes you look like a loser!!! go back to trolling for underage girls or whatever you do when not here!! FOOL.”
I’m pretty sure the point of a blog is to have debates AND discussions about any topic started by our beloved STrib writers, in fact the two words are synonyms for eachother. And I’m sorry for making you react in a such a way saying I ‘troll for underage girls’, much lower of a blow and far less class than my statements about your post.
And as for your statement on my ability in ‘pick up games’ and lack of experience in ‘competitive sports’, I hate to give you access to my real name and any other info you might use to rudely insult me but check out the following web address, http://www.ballcharts.com/colognehollanders, that happens to be my name under the heading ‘Player of The Game’
come on kid of destiny…
C’mon now, as terrible as the Twins played against the Rockies the other day, there is absolutely no way you should be asking for a refund you ungrateful fair weather fan. Rincon is horrid and should be released as soon as possible. Aside from that, you cannot sit there and tell me the Twins go onto the field and purposely try to play bad. I’m sorry those of you who took the trip to Denver got a bad show, but mistakes, sometimes a lot of them, happen. For one of the younger teams in the league, the Twins have done pretty well. They were portrayed by ESPN as one of the worst teams in MLB and expected them to finish ahead of Kansas City, but not by much. The Twins is no way are going to be the calibur of team we have seen in recent years, but they will sure as hell hold their own playing small ball in a home run hitting league. They have in the past and I don’t see that changing anytime soon. Everyone wants results immediately, but sometimes you can’t have your cake and eat it too. Give the Twins a year or two instead of whining about how one terrible game ruined your vacation to Denver. Get over it.
