An ugly play and a potentially ugly situation
Posted on May 28th, 2008 – 9:10 AMBy Howard
An interesting night that the Twins seemed to handle well, probably better than a lot of us who were watching when Delmon Young brain-cramped and went diving for the fly ball that he turned into a game-tying inside-the-park homer. My suggestion for Delmon is to make a trip to the hotel gift shop this morning and buy a few of those overpriced cards — a couple of the “I’m sorry” variety for Mr. Blackburn and Mr. Nathan, and the biggest “Thank You” card he can find to slip under Mr. Cuddyer’s door for the single that finally ended it all.
As Joe C’s reports in his game story and his blog, there was more than a little clubhouse unease even though the Twins managed to rebound and win, a game that should have been over in nine innings with Blackburn’s excellence being the center of attention instead of in 12 with Young’s foible dominating. I’m glad that Delmon owned up to his blunder to Joe C. and that Nathan was able to make his distress clear without throwing him under the Prius, even though that would have made good material for the rest of us.
Should Delmon have gone diving?
Bert’s initial response turned out, rightly, to be the minority view: “Do you dive for it or do you go after the ball? Aggressiveness says to dive for it.”
Sometimes, Mr. Aggressiveness is a fool.
“Well, you know what,” Bert continued. “On that play right there by Delmon Young, if he stays back on that ball, that ball may have done the same thing anyway. He had to go over there….”
Later, Bert concluded by saying, “I don’t know what else Young could have done.”
Uh, really?
Watching that, part of me was imagining Blyleven-the-pitcher watching that scene in the left-field corner unraveling one of his well-pitched games that went for naught back in the day. Bert expected competence from his teammates and he could demand it because he was so good and because nobody was tougher on Blyleven than Blyleven.
Because Ron Coomer answered completely and correctly during the FSN postgame, I figure his explanation is the best way to deal with what happened and why it shouldn’t have gone down that way. Coomer started by pointing out that the Twins outfielders were basically playing not to give up an extra-base hit, which is what he meant when he used the term “no doubles.”
Over to you, Ron.
“The bottom line is you’re playing ‘no doubles’ and the object of playing ‘no doubles’ is to not let the ball go past you. The one thing that Tom Kelly had in his office was a Superman shirt with a ‘buster’ through it. This play right here, for Delmon, I know he’s hustling, but this is the exact opposite of what you want to do. Play that ball into a double, that’s OK. You’ll have runners on second and third and you’re still up by two runs and you throw the ball back in. When you make the dive, you’ve got to at least knock the ball down. Now you’ve got big trouble, an inside-the-park home run. I mean, Joe (Nathan) throws one pitch and gives up three runs. That was a bad play.”
Later, in response to another LaPanta question, Coomer reiterated: “There’s no reason to try to make that diving catch. Just play the ball in the corner, throw the ball in and you still have the lead and you have the best guy in baseball to close it out.”
In Gardy’s post-game press gathering, he made a wan attempt to credit Delmon with hustle, but added: “I’m having a hard time with this one because I’m so disappointed. You can’t leave your feet in left field in that situation.”
Left unaddressed was Delmon’s jog to retrieve the ball after it rolled away and to the wall, which compounded the audacity of his hopeless dive. Nathan clearly wasn’t thrilled, based on his body language when Delmon tried to say something to him in the dugout.
But enough about that.
It seems proper, at this point, to call your attention to a comment left yesterday by Carlos G., who wrote in response to my criticism of the Twins’ corner outfielders: “It would seem almost a ‘lock’ with this blog from Howard that Cuddy and DY are in for a huge series against KC. Thanks Howard”
Well, Carlos, at least I got Cuddyer straightened out last night: 3-for-6, diving catch, game-winning hit. I’m not sure I can do anything about Delmon, though. Keep in mind that his fielding antics overshadowed an 0-for-6 at the plate, including grounding into a double play with the bases loaded and one out after Cuddyer’s single.
Maybe they should remake that commercial where “young Mr. Young” seeks advice from the Holy Twinity of Oliva, Carew and Killebrew.
What do you think they’d tell him today?
other people are here too
85 Responses to "An ugly play and a potentially ugly situation"
And if he didn’t dive, everybody would be blaming him for not putting forth enough effort and criticizing him for his work ethic.
Why is nobody blaming Nathan for pitching a belt high pitch with almost no movement?
However, what I’m really upset with last night was not leaving Blackburn in. Gardy needs to let his pitchers grow. Leave him out there and let him build up his confidence and try to win the game. Instead he gets pulledand looks crushed in the dugout after the hit.
Oh well, at least we won.
The dive was a bad play that would have been much more forgiveable had DPD (double play Delmon) hustled after it!! Instead, he turns around to look at the ump to see if it was foul, then takes his sweet time jogging (as Howard described) back to the ball. It’s almost 1/3 of the way into this season, and honestly, Tyner would have had better numbers. Delmon is batting less than .200 with RISP and playing terrible defense. Think positive, think positive - I guess he’s got a pretty good arm.
What are the chances that Delmon gets a day or two off in the next week? I don’t care about his stupid games played streak he needs a day or two off.
Come on, Delmon is on only 22! Who cares that of the 30 players 24 and under (who have qualified) in MLB he is 27th in OPS? Who cares that his fundamentals are lousy? Who cares that he won’t listen to the coaches? I mean, he’s only 22, right?
Great post Howard. This is where Gardy either earns his money, or shows he just isn’t all that good a manager. I can’t imagine Nathan is that mad if this is the first issue with Delmon all year in terms of hustle and play. I still think Carl Crawford may have been onto something….
Delmon Young screwed up twice on that play. First by not keeping the ball in front of him, and second by arguing with the ump while the batter was circling the bases instead of running after the ball. The first one I might - *might* - be able to excuse, but the second is inexcusable. I don’t care if he likes starting every day or not, it’s time for him to sit out a couple games and get his head on straight. Can you imagine Gardy’s reaction if Kubel screwed up like that? He’d be benched for a week.
“And if he didn’t dive, everybody would be blaming him for not putting forth enough effort and criticizing him for his work ethic.”
Nobody wanted Young to dive. Nobody.
He’s done that type of play before, with less disasterous results, and I’ve remarked on it before.
It reminds me of Crawford’s sliding catch in foul territory when the Rays played the Twins earlier this season.
He went for the spectacular play instead of the right play. Just like Young did here.
I’m wondering if that isn’t a “Ray Mindset” type of thing that’s going on.
And Howard, while the press may have left the issue “unaddressed”…I’m going to wager Gardy didn’t.
To be a fly on the wall in the locker room last night. As I’m almost certain Gardy gave Young an earful once the cameras were gone.
Gardy and Nathan handled it well when asked to address it. Nathan refused to tear the guy apart through the press, and Gardy voiced his disappointment.
Tearing him up in the press would lead to nothing but trouble.
Agreed. Kubel wouldn’t see the light of day til after the All-Star break. Meanwhile, Young will be in the lineup today. What has he done that he deserves to play everyday, every inning?!?! Sorry, no one is catching Cal, so let’s sit the man and get his hunger back.
Good take, Howard. Nathan is a class guy, and my guess is he (and Gardenhire) will do some leadership/patch-up work with Delmon, without conceding anything. But I came away from the game excited about Blackburn. The guy has been giving up many hits and often seems to have trouble finishing off even mediocre hitters. But man that ball was moving last night, in the strike zone. Love seeing Mike Lamb and Brendan Harris busy with easy grounders. Also encouraged by Guerrier’s last few appearances, Casilla’s athleticism and Jesse Crain throwing consecutive strikes. That said, we need more consistently good at-bats from Kubel and Young.
If Blackburn would have been left in the game we wouldn’t be having this conversation about Delmon Young. I think there is plenty of blame to be shared on this debacle. At least we won.
All Blyleven was dawning his Homer hat as usual…I don’t think the guy has had one profoundly critical thing to say about a member of the Twins since he’s been on TV…D Young should’ve been “circled” after that play.
Dan Gladden also missed the boat on criticizing D. Young for the jog (which is pretty rare for Gladden), but he was quick to point out that Jose Guillen didn’t exactly hustle after he misplayed a ball hit by Brendan Harris in the 8th inning…bottom line there is Dan Gladden is the bomb–he played with nothing but hustle in his time, therefore, he is personally insulted and isn’t afraid to point it out when he sees lack of hustle on the field.
I’ll pose the same questions for Howard’s readers as I did on Joe C.’s blog in reflecting on last night’s game…
1. Is Michael Cuddyer off the hook with last night’s performance? A lot of time and energy has been spent on him in recent weeks, and for good reason, but he did come through (although it was a 1-2 count cookie he was given–if he makes an out there, he ends up leaving men in scoring position with one out in both the 10th and 12th innings…not good…we’ll give him a day’s stay of execution).
2. Now that Justin Morneau has his average up to .313 (closing in on the Chosen One), isn’t it time to say that he–not Mauer–is the face of this franchise? I know I’ve been arguing this a lot lately, but I think what Morneau has done, with Cuddy hitting behind him, has been nothing short of superb.
3. A disappointing game for Kubel. Those who want him ‘freed’ now understand why Gardy has him ‘out on parole’…he backs up a game winning grand slam with an 0-for-5. As I’ve said all along, Jason Kubel is most effective when used in moderation…when he’s freed, he’s a .238 hitter.
4. Pat Reusse has been arguing for a while now that the Twins don’t have the guts to send D. Young to the minors. When you’ve been playing every game, treading water, and then come up with an 0-for-6 effort (nevermind the defensive gaffe), the point becomes magnified. Is Reusse right? What do we do with this guy? I don’t think you send him to the minors, but an off day wouldn’t be the end of the world.
5. I hate to pick on a team when it’s down (Royals have lost 9 straight), but when I was in K.C. in April, Royals fans stood in line for hours in the freezing cold waiting for their Billy Butler jerseys. Butler is supposedly K.C.’s new power hitter and they were unofficially ushering in his era that night with a sellout crowd for a 45 degree game…come to find last night that Butler, who was not in the starting lineup, is batting .265 with 1 HR!!! The Royals can’t buy a break, it appears (see also: we give them a game-tying inside the park HR in the 9th and they still don’t cash in with a win).
6. Finally, on the positive (because I like to be positive), good to see the bullpen have a night with Reyes, Crain, and Guerrier each pitching scoreless innings. I know it’s the Royals, but let’s hope last night starts a trend and wasn’t a one-shot deal.
Nathan makes the big money for getting outs in the ninth with the game on the line. I have no problem with him being brought in.
I would have liked to see Nathan pitch in the 10th. 10 pitches? Seriously? What are they paying this guy?
So, these appear to be my themes this year:
I was wrong about Livan and Kubel
Young was a mistake so far, and I’m not sure these are the coaches to fix that
Nathan needs to pitch more
I’m glad Blackburn got a chance, as the Twins didn’t think he was this good
Cuddy’s 2006 was the aberration year
Gomez is much, much better than I expected
I may just copy and paste those….
Why didn’t Nathan Pitch the 10th inning also? He threw 10 pitches in the 9th inning I think he could have gotten another 3 outs.
mike wants wins
Nice to see we are on the same page.
Jason, I’ve also been wondering about Delmon and a trip to Rochester for a week or two. He must still have options, so there’s no risk of exposing him to the waiver wire. I mean, the club rightly decided that Liriano needed to gain confidence and find his groove. I see the same need for Delmon. A couple of weeks (maybe even a month or two) of being aggressive against AAA pitchers might be just the thing he needs. And it wouldn’t hurt to send him the message “you are NOT an untouchable…yet”. I believe he can become an integral core part of this team, but not this season.
I’m more bothered by Bert than Delmon. I couldn’t believe what I was hearing. How long did he play the game? How long has he been a broadcaster, following a team every game? How could he say such stupid thing?
I was already pissed at him for denying the obvious fact that Cuddyer’s would-be two-run double landed on the chalk line. The camera doesn’t lie. But here’s Bert saying, “It was a good call.”
Still compared to not believing your own eyes, not understanding such a basic thing was just shocking. People are saying Delmon needs a day off. Maybe so. I think Bert needs a longer lay off to get his head on straight.
This is the third inside the park home run I’ve witnessed in real time. The other two were in the playoffs and were the the result of Hunter playing too aggressively. When Hunter did it, the Twins lost both games and everyone patted him on the back and told him to stay aggressive. When Young did it, the Twins won and everyone is railing on him.
It was stupid when Hunter did it and it was stupid when Young did it. But ease up on him. The Twins won. The season goes on (unlike in the playoffs)
Jason - great post. You covered it all.
I hate to sound too positive, because this was such an ugly game, but a win is a win. If we’re lucky this will be a close division race. If you can steal a game here or there early in the season (or, in this case, hold on to a game after a horrible play), the team is in a better position for the second half. We’ll see . . .
Not true, lots of people ripped Hunter for that Oakland play, lots of people.
the difference between, atleast the first hunter miscue and this one, was that the first one happened on the very first batter of the game, when only one run was basically on the line, and it’s ok to be more aggressive like that early in the game, but not in the bottom of the 9th with the best closer in the game on the mound
Great to hear that everybody likes Cuddy again… Wasn’t he supposed to be benched so Craig Monroe could get at bats?
Now we just need Kubel to start instead of Young… Oh wait what did Kubel do last night? Well he did get an RBI when he got lucky and they didn’t turn a 2nd double play on him.
Sean
Did you forget what Delmon did at the plate last night? Last time I checked 0-5 was better than 0-6. I’m not saying Young should never play again, but a night off wouldn’t be the worst thing for him would it?
DY is not a good teammate: I bashed Young last week when he didn’t dive for a ball during Livan’s bid for a perfect game. Someone disagreed with me and I tried to explain to them it’s about knowing the SITUATION. Diving for a ball when your pitcher has a perfect game going in the later innings with nobody on base is being a good teammate. Sliding (not diving as some people don’t seem to know the difference) with runners on base with a three run lead in the ninth is just not smart. And it is inexcusable to not hustle after the ball when he missed it. He needs to sit occasionally to get his head right with ball as the expression goes.
Oh wait what did Kubel do last night?
Not cost us a lead with a dumbass play in left?
Another thought:
With all of our infield injuries this year, the only hope we have from not seeing a steady diet of Little Nicky Punto–who now has a revised version of his jewelry store spot airing on the radio (one where he doesn’t embarrassingly utter ‘tell ‘em Nick Punto drove you in’)–is Alexi Casilla. Casilla went 3-for-6 last night and almost had a fourth hit in the 12th inning. Is it good enough, or will Gardy go with LNP when the Twins face the Yankees this weekend?
I honestly think the next couple games will be the deciding factor–if Casilla keeps the average above .300 and keeps getting on base, you can’t really bench him, can you?
Too Young is right: You have to know the situation and what is called for in said situation. And I don’t care that he is only 22…he’s been playing baseball since he was a little kid, probably for around 17 years already, and has no baseball common sense what so ever.
I’m sure I’m in the minority, but I want to see an infield of Casilla at 2nd, Punto at SS, and a Lamb/Harris platoon at 3rd. Harris also serves as the first back up at the other two spots, with Clark also on the roster until Tolbert comes back. Macri goes back down this weekend when Punto is activated
The only part of Bert’s homerism that bothers me is when he’ll say something negative about a player on an opposing team, then a few innings later sit mum when a Twins player makes a similar blunder.
You’d like to think that Young’s problems are primarily about being 22, but you begin to wonder when you see his lack of judgment, and concomitantly, the Twins’ reaction to it. I sensed from the way Nathan and Gardenhire treated last night’s nonsense that they are just plain bothered by him and as such aren’t inclined to cut him much slack. This would then endorse the opinion of at least one former teammate. If Cuddyer had been the guy who screwed this up would Nathan have tuned him up in the dugout like he did Young?
I know we’ve heard a lot from the Twins about what a fine gentleman Delmon is, but something about the team’s treatment of last night’s mistake(s) makes me suspect this guy has a way of getting on people’s nerves.
I think Casilla’s job is safe for the time being - someone has to fill the power void left by Delmon Young.
Punto is an ideal defensive replacement for Harris or Lamb, but if they don’t start hitting better we’ll see a lot of Little Nicky at 3B and SS.
Jason,
I think you can call Justin Morneau the face of the franchise if you want. Free country and all. But what happens if his average dips down, who should we call face of francise than? Also, haven’t people been calling Mauer and Morneau the face of the franchise for a while now.
The M&M boys are a team when it comes to being the face of the franchise. Kind of like Moss and Culpepper from a few years back. I don’t think either Mauer or Morneau, on thier own, is thought of the way Garnett was with the Twolves. I know I’m mixing sports, but that is the way I see it
some good points from Brent and fcm, but I guess the whole M & M idea seems to be gone and most of the marketing in this town focuses on Mauer (and the absolute best measure of this is when the Twins were on ESPN Sunday Night Baseball a couple weeks ago and Jon Miller introduced us at the top of the show as “Joe Mauer and the Minnesota Twins”).
I guess my point is (”gasp”), while Joe Mauer is a very good player who we want to keep around forever, where would this team be without Justin Morneau? I don’t see the two as equals…good compliments, yes, but if I get one or the other, I’m taking Morneau–hands down.
Didn’t anyone notice that Young only was able to hit into the 12th-inning double play because Teahen didn’t move from first base as the high popup landed near him on the warning track. It was one of those rare at bats when the hitter really deserved to be responsible for THREE outs.
The last time someone (Prince Fielder) hit an inside the park home run off Joe Nathan (June 17, 2007), it ultimately landed Lew Ford in Koshien, Japan. At the very least Delmon needs to ride the pine for a day or two after last night. His poor judgement on the fly ball may be excusable to an extent, his lack of effort after missing the catch is not. Gardy needs to show Delmon who the alpha dog in the clubhouse is, and he needs to do it today. No need for a public or private dressing down, simply deleting him from tonight’s lineup card will send the message loud and clear, to Delmon and the rest of the team. Failing to do so will simply compound what appears to be a disturbing attitude problem on the part of Delmon. To quote a great sage of the game, baseball in 90 percent mental, the other half is physical. Nobody doubts Delmon’s physical talent (much), but his attitude needs immediate adjustment.
Great post, twayn. We’ll see if Gardy agrees.
Yes, DY needs to sit tonight, while the rest of the A line-up is out there. The same message won’t be sent if he sits on a day that Redmond is catching, Morneau is DHing, ect.
Agreed, Twayn. It’s like Delmon wanted to make ESPN highlights worse than winning. He made the highlights, alright.
I understand the sentiment that you guys are referring to, but I am not so sure a bad attitude had anything to do with last nights play. It was boneheaded to be certain, but it wasn’t like he gave nathan the finger after the play, it seemed (on tv anyway) that he tried to own up to it, and admitted to a mistake after the game.
If he needs to sit it is because he is playing poorly not becasue his attitude is bad.
The last time someone (Prince Fielder) hit an inside the park home run off Joe Nathan (June 17, 2007), it ultimately landed Lew Ford in Koshien, Japan.
Then it was all worthwhile.
This is the second time that Gardy robs his starting pitcher from a complete game shutout this season. Blackburn was 2 outs away from it and had thrown less that 90 pitches. Why don’t you leave him in?
Gardy’s horrible management of his pitchers and not Young’s mistake should be the story of the game, because mistakes & freaky plays happen and are not usually repeated, but awful pitching management will be repeated game after game by Gardy.
“The last time someone (Prince Fielder) hit an inside the park home run off Joe Nathan (June 17, 2007), it ultimately landed Lew Ford in Koshien, Japan”
An embarrassing play, but an oversimplification.
Delmon needs at least a bench trip shortly to adjust that behavior, with the threat of Rochester present at the moment.
But let’s not start researching tickets to Tokyo already. 
I think it’s great that Nathan glared at his teammate out in the field and then game him the cold shoulder in the clubhouse. After all, Delmon messed up his consecutive save streak. Who cares that we won the game.
sane,
I never said Lew Ford in Japan was a bad thing.
T,
Oversimplified? Sure. Overstated? Probably. Does Gardy tend to coddle some players while putting the hammer down on others? Absolutely. Does Delmon need an object lesson? Undoubtedly. And that, really, was my primary point.
I see significant overreaction to Young’s play. When fate bites, we have a human tendency to want to blame someone.
This was a windblown pop that kept going away from him; it landed 6 inches inside the line; it took a huge twisting first bounce high against the foul fence before rolling along the fence back onto the playing field.
For all the 2nd guesser’s, what was the proper play, in your 20-20 hindsight? I have seen lots of suggestions he should have just played the hop. Well, the hop went 30 feet sideways and nearly went into the stands. Should he have foreseen that hop and run straight to the foul fence? Or should he have foreseen that it would roll back into fair territory? Should he have run toward the foul line? Or, straight back to the fence to field it as it came rolling along?
This was a damned if you do, damned if you don’t fluke, and I find a lot of piling on of the 22 year old kid who was victimized by a bad bounce. And that includes Nathan’s icy glare and Howard’s second guessing.
Yes, it was terribly unfair that Blackburn’s great performance was soiled and that Nathan blew a save. But, that’s baseball. Sometimes the baseball gods are fickle. Deal with it.
“This is the second time that Gardy robs his starting pitcher from a complete game shutout this season. Blackburn was 2 outs away from it and had thrown less that 90 pitches.”
“Why don’t you leave him in?”
So he doesn’t LOSE THE GAME after pitching so well.
obie,
“Should he have run toward the foul line? Or, straight back to the fence to field it as it came rolling along?”
He should have given ground by backing off the catch to keep it in front of him. He ABSOLUTELY SHOULD NOT HAVE DIVED! He should have stayed on his feet to pursue the ball in case it got by him. (which it did)
None of that is split-second decision. It is a basic principle of the “no doubles” defense.
I’ve seen Delmon play since he was 15 yrs-old. He is a good player. It was a bad decision which he freely admits.
We all make bad decisions.
Thats why I’m not a multi-trillionaire.
obie, no doubt it was a fluke play. And, if Delmon had a history of hustle and good fielding and some hitting, he’d get more of a pass. But, some people here keep defending him like they KNOW he’ll be good someday. Well, right now, he’s not playing well. Most players in this situation would either be benched for a few days, or be sent down. Delmon appears immune to being held accountable, and admittedly, that is frustrating to me at least.
If you truly believe Young thought the ball was foul, then diving for it was the right play. catch it or not, he’s got nothing to lose.
immune to being held accountable? what the h are you talking about. Benching someone isn’t the only way to hold people accountable, and in a lot of instances can be the least produictive. It wasn’t as if gardy said he had no prob with the play, or Nathan gave him a pat on the back and said good try. I think Delmon got the hint that he screwed up, and held himself accountable. I am still wondering where people keep getting this idea that he isn’t hustling. Is he supposed to slide head first into 1b when he grounds out, becasue that isn’t hustle, but stupid. The misplays he has made in the OF have come from bad reads or poor judgement, but not hustle. His hitting has been poor and it is fair to say that he needs to improve or he shouldn’t be starting, but i don’t buy lack of hustle.
You guys are all reading a little too much into this thing…this isn’t about hustle, this isn’t about attitude, this isn’t about one bad play in the field….
It’s about a .260 singles hitter with no homeruns…he had an 0-for-6 night…it’s time for a day off. Period.
Obie,
The bad bounce and approach to the ball I can forgive. But you failed to mention the extremely lackadaisical retrieval of the ball when it got away from him. I think that is what truely drove most people over the edge.
GypsyBiker,
“If you truly believe Young thought the ball was foul, then diving for it was the right play.”
Young must KNOW its foul with 100% certainty, or he must stay on his feet.
If he THOUGHT it was foul, he should have stayed on his feet because he didn’t KNOW it was foul.
And I like Delmon.
Gypsie,
You’re right on…I thought the ball was going to be foul myself, so diving (or sliding, actually) was the right play if he felt that were the case. But again, trotting to retrieve it was sick. Let him play a game or two so as not to totally humiliate and demoralize him, then give him a day off.
First off, I think bringing Nathan in was easily the correct call in that position. 2 on, 1 out with the tieing run at the plate in Teahen is not a favorable matchup for Blackburn at 90 pitches. I am not putting the blame on Nathan for this one but if you watched the pitch compared to where Mauer was set up, he left it over the plate when Mauer wanted that down and away corner that Nathan always paints. The only way I can let Delmon off the hook is if he thought the ball had no chance of landing fair. If it is foul it’s the correct slide and that corner of Kauffman is tough to play. Having said that, if the ball is questionably fair, under no circumstance should you make any attempt to catch it. Delmon has proven to us over and over that his baseball sense needs a game off to sit and watch while learning from his coaches as the game is being played. His potential is there at 22 but it seems his development has slowed. And Cuddyer needs far more than one good night at the plate to regain my confidence in him. It’s a great start and I hope he can snowball from it. My heart goes out to Blackburn on an amazing pitching performance. Stay confident.
you guys are all laughable…these are professionals we’re talking about…Average Joe, you must be kidding with this rationale, right?
“Let him play a game or two so as not to totally humiliate and demoralize him, then give him a day off.”
Boo, hoo, hoo…he has to sit after a bad game…he might never regain that .260, powerless form of old if we sit him tonight, right?
Like I said above…sitting him tonight is the right move…not because of lack of hustle, not because of attitude, not because of one disasterous play….it’s because the dude has hit into three double plays in the last two games, is 1-for-his-last-20, and is batting .260 without a homerun and is coming off an 0-for-6 night.
That’s why you bench him…if those things aren’t all true, we’re not even talking about the merits of benching him over one silly play.
Young must KNOW its foul with 100% certainty, or he must stay on his feet.
If he THOUGHT it was foul, he should have stayed on his feet because he didn’t KNOW it was foul.
100% Correct.
The difference between this play and the ones by Hunter mentioned earlier were that in center, the RF and LF can and should at least be moving that direction to back you up. Not that they have to be on the dead-out sprint, but moving that way should be enough to avoid the HR. Down the line on either side, you’re on your own. He made a bad choice and deserves to be barbecued a bit it.
As for Nathan, he was unavailable for the 10th because he was in the clubbie throwing darts at a picture of DY…
It was a bad play by DY, but he didn’t bean a guy in the foot and didn’t throw the two pitches that resulted in hits, which set the scene for his blunder. Everyone makes errors. The best you can do is learn from them and not make the same mistake again. I’m guessing DY will remember this one for a long time.
i thought the ball was foul- that’s why he looked up to the umpire- hind sight is wonderful-what has Nathan got to bitch about?/ he always been treated with kid gloves- doesn’t come into a game UNLESS he has a chance for a save- he’s making BIG MONEY- he’s not the best closer in the game ! good yes but not the best-how about the chosen one can’t play the next day after a night game and the next game is a day game- needs rest?? he’s only 24-25 should be able to play every day period -lots of babying for a slap hitter - the franchise player?/hardly ! don’t they play every day?? as for pitch count(100) these are grown men usually big men - they should be able to throw at least 130 pitches a game also they only pitch every 5 th day not like the old days ( every 4th day) does any body miss Jason Bartlett?? the Rays are very happy with that trade also Matt Graza is pitching well last time a four hitter - he’s 3-1 - he will be a big winner in the future- does any body besides Tom Kelly think that he invented baseball ?? it was his way or the highway - i still think he has a LOT of influence on the running of the ball club- back to the ( wonder boy)he gets EVERY break in the book - never gets charged with a pass ball, questionable hit ball(maybe an error)he’s alway given a hit at home- he’ll be lucky to hit 300 this year - those ground balls will be finding a home in some body glove before the season is over - i enjoy the posts
Tom Kelly won two World Championships and helped build the club that won three straight division titles…ripping on him will not fly with me.
Everyone makes errors. The best you can do is learn from them and not make the same mistake again. I’m guessing DY will remember this one for a long time.
Manny Ramirez looks like a goof in the outfield sometimes, too. The difference is that Manny hits the crap out of the ball, all the time. When Delmon starts doing that, he’ll hear less criticism of his boneheaded plays.
It’s so easy to place blame and use big talk about sending Young to the minors etc. But if you are into the criticizing, how about Gardy and Nathan. Gardy for leaving Blackburn in to start the 9th and Nathan for not showing more class and treating a team mate with some respect. Maybe we need a new manager? Someone that manages by situations rather than “What would TK do now?”
Oh, I think you have it wrong on Nathan, there, trebsum…
Nathan’s a veteran who just watched a young player botch a play, then punctuate it by not hustling after a ball and allowing an inside the park homerun…confronting that player (i.e. letting him know it actually matters when you don’t hustle) is absolutely prudent in that instance…it’s not a classless move at all. 10 years down the road when Young is a veteran and some rookie pitcher forgets to back up home plate on one of his throws because he’s too busy barking at the ump for not giving him more strike calls, then Young will be in the right to confront that player, too.
If Delmon wants respect, he should start hitting the ball, be more aware of the game situation when he’s in the field, and wait until the play is over before he argues with the umpire. Nathan wants to win, and the team won’t get better by coddling the young guys in the name of “respect.”
I’d like to see someone post to this blog and defend DY’s “hustling” to the ball after he got back up. I can’t believe we have people here completely ignoring that aspect of the play. We can debate if he should have left his feet but seriously, all you DY defenders, tell me why only being 22 (or any other excuse you can offer) is an excuse for just jogging over to the ball.
“confronting that player (i.e. letting him know it actually matters when you don’t hustle) is absolutely prudent in that instance”
Agreed.
But do it later and privately.
Baseball players who show temper publicly draw the attention of opponents who will find ways to set that temper off to their advantage.
Why do you think bench jockeys rag selected targets in baseball?
They find someone who “can’t take it” and detonate him like an unexploded bomb.
Too,
How do you defend “not hustling”?
That’s why no one is trying to do that.
sid,
Many people on this board have defended DY. Saying it was a youthful mistake (him only being 22), saying that he was being aggressive, that we are ganging up on him, that we are overreacting, etc. Go back and read the posts. Many people are making excuses for DY which is a form of defending his play. And I ain’t buying it.
Too,
That play is not defensible.
He screwed up and admitted it.
Anyone who defends that play is talking contrary to Delmon’s own admission.
His character is not as bad as that play was.(I hope)
Sid,
Please refresh my memory as to when DY addressed not “running” after the ball. I must have missed that part of his admission. I only saw where he discussed that he thought the ball was foul. When did he talk about not going after the ball once he saw that the umpire ruled it fair?
Too,
You are right.
He didn’t say “I loafed” anywhere.
He needs to address that issue specifically, or his admission is lacking closure,
The Sophomore Jinx jinxed Young in a strange way on that play last night.
I hope this lights a fire under him. I won’t be calling for his head until at least the all star break.
And I hope Gardy isn’t afraid to give him a day off down the line so he remembers how good he has it as a starter in MLB.
OK, Delmon young screwed up. He and everyone else knows it - let’s hope he learned something and get on with the season.
Young is arrogant and obviously not very good.
Jason….. Tom Kelly won two world series in ten years, the other eight years his team was in last place or close to it.
I thought the “no doubles” defense was played deep and guarding the lines, even with a left handed batter. Especially with Nathan’s fastball. If these rules are followed then its a fairly easy catch.
The only thing I would have done in the ninth was to keep Blackburn in the game. Blackburn is a groundball pitcher, so with men on base with at least one out, that is an ideal situation to have Blackburn out there. I know Joe is a good closer, but I don’t think Blackburn would have given up a home run in that situation because the wind was blowing hard in from left field, and Blackburn’s fastball was sinking nicely during the game. If there were no outs in the inning, bringing Nathan out would have been a no-brainer, but I still think the Twins would have won the game in the ninth, maybe giving up a couple runs in the process. (I just can’t see Blackburn giving up the game in that situation to a team he owned through 8 innings)
actually it was right field where the wind was blowing in, but that is were the HR would have been hit. (I just mixed up left and right)
kmack,
“I thought the “no doubles” defense was played deep and guarding the lines.”
“Guarding the lines” refers to first baseman and third baseman.
The outfield is deep and must defend the gaps as well.
1. Blackburn should not have remained in the game. Joe Nathan is the closer, his one role on the team is to be the closer, and the game at that point needed to be closed.
2. It doesn’t matter how old Delmon is. When Delmon first got here he played the whole “I’m ready to grow up” card perfectly. If there are seriously character issues here we’re going to have a problem. The Twins are not the type of team that can overcome them. We’ll leave those problems to the Whitesox and Tigers.
This whole Delmon thing, I think the twins have handled it tactfully and maturely. How many other teams would do that?
If Delmon had made that play in a Yankees uniform…they’d still be talking about it a week from now on ESPN.
I think this is the first game I have watched all season, including the Tiger games, where I feel embarrassed to be a Twins fan. Though this team can find a way to win, they are also equally capable of throwing games away. (literally)
Delmon’s two errors in the same inning were not enough to drive me away from the game, nor was letting Billy Milk-Truck Butler get an infield hit in the same inning. I was foolish to think that the Twins might have a chance to actually win this game but right on cue, Micheal Cuddyer misplayed a ball allowing another run to score. Four bad plays in one game, only two of them counted as errors, but all four were definitely bad plays. That is unacceptable. Alexi Casilla made a great play at second, saving 2 runs in the process, only to see those runs be given back and more. That is embarrassing.
I know a lot of people are going to say that Young’s throwing error was on Mauer but Young should have thrown it to Lamb, which Mauer should have expected and did.
Inconsistency
© Minnesota Twins 2007-2008
The Twins keep finding ways to win! It will be interesting to see how well they handle the Yanks this weekend.
It is time to play Monroe, He has a power bat, I really want to see how Delmon would react to that. I think that would give the Twins the best chance to win.
