The Twins and Cleveland: misery loves company
Posted on June 12th, 2008 – 8:37 AMBy Howard
Last night, the Twins were out-Twinned by Cleveland. That’s why I’m having trouble getting too excited about the Twins ending their losing streak. Cleveland has struggled a bit more than the Twins and is two games behind them in the AL Central with its cast of underperformers.
Perhaps the most blatant example last night were the guys at the end of the bullpen, who have been out-Rinconing Juan Rincon so far this season, although that kind of ineffectiveness reaches a point where you have to ask whether Rincon (2-2, 6.11) is actually out-Borowskiing Joe Borowski (9.00 ERA and injury problems after 81 saves in the last two seasons) or out-Betancourting Rafael Betancourt (1-3, 6.75 and a failure at filling the closer role when Borowski was hurt.
Betancourt (who had a dazzling season as a set-up guy in ‘07) pitched a solid inning last night but, after Cleveland had closed from 6-2 to 6-5, Borowski gave up two runs in the ninth — a rally ignited by Gogomez and Casilla with their bats and base running — to lessen the drama.
In addition, injured Pronk is carrying a .217 average and four homers on the bench and Victor Martinez is .278/0/21. And after hobbling down to first base and getting thrown out on a grounder that even Matty Lecroy would have beaten out, he was pulled from the game — with an inflamed elbow. It’s tough all over for the guy.
Cleveland has two starting pitchers on the disabled list, and on and on and on.
All of this makes the incredible work of Cliff Lee (10-1, 2.52) that much more outstanding. Remember that Lee was booted from the rotation last season because he was terrible and spent a chunk of the season in the minors.
So this is the team that the Twins beat last night, as Gardy tried to give Boof a chance to look good in a set-up role (one hit, one walk, two batters retired) and Dennys Reyes gave Cleveland hope when Grady Sizemore mashed a three-run home to bring his team within 6-5.
Amazing that Cleveland can’t even find a spot for this guy on its roster, isn’t it?
other people are here too
43 Responses to "The Twins and Cleveland: misery loves company"
Coming off that ugly Sox series, at this point I’ll take victories wherever they come from.
The Sox seem to have slowed up against the Tigers and could possibly be swept.
If the Twins can build off the good starts by Baker and Blackburn, and use last night to remember their offense doesn’t suck as bad as they thought it did in Chicago then have a chance to bounce back with a nice series win (and if they get some help get back a few games lost this weekend)
Also, how nice was it to see Mauer take a collision at home last night? Saved a run, ended the inning, and that run saved ended up being a HUGE difference following the wackiness that was the Boof relief appearance.
I’d take this win every day. Several positives:
*Gomez and Casilla on top of the order are creating a mayhem for opposing pitchers and defences. Does anyone on the planet will even consider sending down Casilla once both Punto and Tolbert are healthy? I just hope that the coaching staff starts taking even more chances with these guys, especially with pitchers with deliberate deliveries
*The bats woke up yesterday (even Lamb hit a ball that would have been at least on the top of the baggie in the the dome) Just hope that it continues. If you look at the opposing pitchers that the team has been able to hit their ball fars (esp Morneau, Kubel, Mornoe, Lamb, Cuddyer), their majority are topping at high 80s. Mauer, Casilla and Gomez are hitting all kinds of pitches.
* Crain was impressive yesterday. Boof was not. He probably needs a change of scenery
t it must be hard on you being first nothing to cut and paste!
i agree the central looks bad if not terrible no good teams and its starting to look like which ever team sucks less will win it.
good to see mauer make that block, glad he didn’t get hurt!
last night someone made the point casilla hitting between gomez and mauer means he probably gets good pitches to hit. any thoughts as to that being part of the problem for harris? seems like he hit much better during the time he hit 2.
if they may want to trade boof for help he better stay on the bench or his value will keep dropping.
and t just kidding!
gobble,
Harris batting second: .250/.327/.354
Harris overall: .240/.308/.314.
The splits come from his baseball-reference.com page.
I don’t get it Howard. You’re not excited about the Twins winning a game, because the other team has struggled this season? You seemed to be excited when the Twins beat the Yankees twice and they’ve struggled this season. A win is a win. Are you saying they should have beat them 20-0 to make it convincing for you? I usually like your blog, but this was really lame.
not much better for harris.
this was in trade rumor today, last week they had a thing on jones being used to possibly pick up boof. boofs value may be declining however.
“We don’t know for sure, but David O’Brien suggests the Braves may have called up left fielder Brandon Jones to showcase him for a trade. Bobby Cox’s explanation for demoting Josh Anderson in favor of Jones didn’t seem to make sense.”
I agree with T, let’s build off of the good starts of Baker and Blackburn, who have at least been consistent this year. (when not injured in Scooter’s case.) I really like the future potential of our rotation in 2009 to the future:
Liriano
Baker
Perkins
Blackburn
Slowey.
Having the future Kevin Tapani as our 5th man is something I look forward to.
I believe the Twins knew for awhile about Boof and Rincon and shopped them around over the winter. I seem to recall that both were mentioned at different times in the Delmon Young deal. With no takers in the off season, I think they were hoping the guys would get it together.
Tyner hit another HR in April!
i agree on that rotation and think it’s getting close to time to get what you can for boof and livan. we have several more guys in the minors to try that may have a future.
maybe our minor league guru’s, like seth, know what guys could step up and start if liriano isn’t ready yet. any thoughts all you experts?
imo harris and casilla look ok. harris isn’t flashy and his range isn’t great but he has been steady and i just don’t think sticking punto in there right away again is the answer.
I think Harris could be serviceable in a limited role. I think Casilla is in the process of establishing himself as a solid 2B. I’m not completely sold on Harris at SS yet, but I don’t like Punto there any more.
Lamb has been a disaster at 3B, unless runners are in scoring position. I just hope the Luke Hughes studliness isn’t a false hope. He could fit in nicely.
So whereas I see a solid rotation for the future, I’m not completely sold on our infield. I think the OF is set, assuming Delmon pulls his head out of his….At the same time I like Denard Span as well as what Ben Revere is doing so far, so who knows how we find a spot for them. I’d say that’s an issue, but having minor league talent is always a plus.
I am not sure that the Twins knew about Rincon in the off season… otherwise they wouldn’t tender him an offer (which would have been a good thing)
Howard, let’s talk bullpen shall we:
I had this thought as I was watching the game last night: how bad is our bullpen when Boof’s demotion makes him as our 7th inning guy?
Then I turned to my wife and said: “Cleveland’s going to get some runs this inning”.
Now they ended up getting runs off Reyes, but make no mistake about it, that was Boof’s screw up. A 7th inning guy is asked to basically do what a closer and set-up guy does, except he does it earlier, where the opposition isn’t going to make all their bench moves and pull out all their desparate stops to try to get guys on base and tie the game.
Translation: less pressure.
During our amazing run in 2006 we had a fantastic bullpen: Reyes was unhittable, Guerrier was coming into his own, and a weird-throwing dude named Pat Neshek was screwing everyone up. It was no coincidence that our previous playoff teams this decade also included solid bullpens (although I wouldn’t go as far as Dick Bremer did a couple weeks ago when he said that two years ago Juan Rincon was one of the best set-up men in either league).
Back to last night…Boof didn’t get the job done and Reyes delivered a pitch that Grady Sizemore was absolutely sitting on–an inside fastball (the same one he fouled off two pitches earlier)–and presto, 6-5 Indians. I hate it when I’m right, sometimes.
Then in the 8th, we turn to Jesse Crain. A buddy of mine and local media guy sent me a text pleading with Gardy to use Joe Nathan for 6 outs. I whole-heartedly agree, but the manager obviously has a different philosophy when it comes to how to use Nathan…Crain ended up letting a guy reach base but ultimately got out of the inning, which I would describe at this point as “dodging a bullet”. Then the offense bailed the bullpen out by extending the lead to three runs in the 9th inning.
The point is this: to be a contender you need a solid bullpen…most teams have starters who will get you six innings nowadays, but not every team has a shut-down bullpen like the one we had in 2006. Heck, our team appears to barely have a ‘damage control’ bullpen at the moment. So considering all of this, why wouldn’t Gardy consider using Nathan for 5-6 outs at times? We saw Nathan warming up during that 8th inning last night, but I’m convinced the ONLY scenario where he would’ve entered the game is if Crain would’ve allow two runners to reach base with two outs…if Crain allows two guys to reach with less than two outs, Gardy would be gun shy to bring Nathan in for that situation, where he needs to work out of a tough spot AND have to get through the 9th (assuming they don’t shell him in the 8th). The only other alternative is to bring him in at the start of the inning–which I realize isn’t baseball 101, but then, neither is having a non-RBI guy bat third.
In the final analysis, we got lucky last night. Boof’s troubles were painful, but we had a four-run lead at the time. Reyes not getting his man was disappointing, but The Big Sweat has been pretty solid for us, all things considered. Crain’s outing was, at this point, fortunate, in my opinion.
I am keeping the faith during this rough stretch…I think the Chicago series is behind us and I think we can pick up ground during this interleague stretch–but to do that, the bully needs to be there for us; that might mean asking Nathan to do just a little more to earn his millions.
“seemed to be excited when the Twins beat the Yankees twice and they’ve struggled this season.”
The Twins never seem to matchup well with the Yankees. To split the series and play as close as they did in each game was a huge plus at the time.
Gosh Howard, love the blog, but when are you going to get it right?
It’s Go-Go Gomez.
Jason,
I agree with the “keeping the faith” part. This team should continue to improve through the year and next year, as well. But, I expect more ups and downs for the team, which is going to drive many people here nuts. Lots of folks on here have trouble with 1 game losing streaks.
Injuries have been tough for us. Losing Baker and Neshek, along with last year’s loss of Liriano are big blows to the pitching staff.
Injuries to Tolbert, Punto, Everett, and Cuddy have messed up the defense and hitting. Cuddy looks like he might finally be getting his swing back.
I don’t agree with your thought that we should have brought in Nathan to start the 8th. Crain was already in the game. He struck out the side along with a 4 pitch walk(semi-intentional, IMO) to Garko, which was just fine with me. Yes, he “dodged a bullet”, but with a one run lead, that is pretty much what you’ve got to do.
I think in order to “keep the faith” with this team, we have to (try) to “keep the faith” with most of the bullpen. If we can’t trust Crain, there isn’t a whole lot left to get us from starter to end-of-game.
Injuries to Tolbert, Punto, Everett, and Cuddy have messed up the defense and hitting
I am not sure that the above being healthy would have produced better hitting. Actually, I think that with the first 3 injured giving the opportunity for Casilla to play, improved hitting.
Again, hitting is not the issue. This team is hitting better than last year’s team and close to that of 2006, and it still early June.
The defense is ok. You cannot look at the errors only. This team has a much better range than previous teams. The average range factor (i.e. taking into account all the players who played a particular position) is way above the league average in every position but 2B and 3B. For comparison, last year it was better than league average only in 3B, SS and LF. Big improvement.
I think that with a few fixes the bullpen will be fine. Nathan is fine, Guerrier is fine and should be the every day set up man instead of this mixed role. Crain/Reyes/Breslow can handle the 7th inning. Pick one of Bass/Bonser as the long man, get rid of Rincon and the other one from Bass/Bonser and maybe bring in a good right hander, if they decide to go with a 12 man staff (which I think is a mistake) Addition by subtraction might be the name of the game there…
MC,
No, it’s Gogomez… like Ronaldinho, Nene and Ichiro. One name. I was first with a nickname; all others are knockoffs!
“what guys could step up and start if liriano isn’t ready yet”
That’s the tough part… Brian Duensing is probably the closest, although his numbers don’t scream call up. he’s been better the last couple of starts again. Kevin Mulvey has shown that he’s got some work to do. He has a solid future ahead of him, but he could use the whole year in AAA. Humber is looking more and more like a reliever, and now his elbow is sore.
I don’t think any of them are “more ready” than Liriano or would perform as well as Liriano right now, but I might call them up first just because Liriano is The Franchise and you want to be more sure with him. (if that makes any sense)
At AA, I think we all felt Anthony Swarzak would dominate and be up at AAA by now, but he definitely hasn’t. Ryan Mullins has been very solid, but he’s a soft-tosser, so he wouldn’t be called up to the Twins (but probably to Rochester soon). Yohan Pino is just coming back from the DL. Jeff Manship should be called up to New Britain from Ft. Myers, but he’s probably about (or at least) a year out.
Not really any options right now.
Thrylos,
For the first 3 names (Tolbert, Punto, and Everett), I was talking more about defense than offense. However, not having Tolbert or Punto to give Lamb a break at 3b probably has cost us on both defense and offense. You are right that we do have a silver lining in that we found out that Casilla might have a great future.
I am interested in knowing how Harris scores out over a longer period of time at SS. He “appears” not to have average range to me, although I like the other parts of his play there.
Our hitting, while not being “the problem”, has suffered with Cuddy’s injury and time to get his stroke back. And, I believe our hitting has suffered with Tolbert being out. A little more hitting, even when it is “not the problem”, still gets you a few more wins.
i take from what you’re saying seth that our vaunted minor league system doesn’t really have anything (at least with major league talent) ready to help until the earliest next yr.
do you have a sense as to why the talent, the last couple yrs, with the exception of some pitching has been so poor? poor drafting, drafting cheap, bad coaching, luck, other?
it seems the organization under Andy MacPhail developed position players with much greater success then current regime (Terry Ryan/Billy Smith)
the foundation for 2 WS wins all came from the minor league system with a few free agent additions
gobble…
I woudln’t say there is no talent, but like with the hitters, some of the high-end prospects are in Beloit and Ft. Myers right now. But in terms of guys ready right now, I can’t say there are any that I think could step in. Again, I like Duensing and he could be adequate. Mulvey will be good, but he’s only had 2 months above the AA level.
That said, I think it’s important to remember that guys like Slowey, Duensing and Mullins were 2005 draft picks (2nd, 3rd and 3rd round, respectively). Mulvey was a 2006 draft pick. So was Manship. Blackburn and Baker are still 26, as if Bonser. They’ve developed good pitchers and continue to do so. Their college pitching draft picks have done well. They haven’t had the same success drafting high school pitchers lately.
And in terms of bats, there are a lot of very good hitters with some hope in those lower levels.
Does anyone know the reason Cleveland released Breslow?
With the Indians apparent bullpen problems and bloated ERAs it seems perplexing that they would DFA a lefty releiver who has been great for the Twins. Not that I’m complaining!
there has been mentioned often that tolbert will help the infields lack of hitting problem.
if you look at the trend he hit .300 with a .340 obp in april and .212 ave and .257 obp in may. as often happens young guys get a chance and do well for a while and then the scouts get a look and start to exploit the holes in their swings. he was not one of the highly rated prospects for the team so to expect him to be anything other than a utility player is asking a lot.
all hope is not lost remember the skipper’s little buddy will be back soon that has to add booming hits and big rbi totals to the mix along with his hot dog fielding plays.
Cleveland needed a spot on their roster when Borowski came up, thus they dfa’s Breslow. I guess they thought that he might clear waivers and that Rafael Perez would be fine as the only lefty in the pen
Also, remember that Tolbert trailed off badly in AAA ball last year. Perhaps being out for an extended time will keep that from happening while he with the Twins. I see Tolbert’s role as a utility player. With the current dearth of candidates at short though, he may have a chance to become a regular there. I don’t see him as a third baseman.
agree on tolbert… remember last year at Rochester, he was hitting about .390 eight weeks into the season and ended right around .300 which tells you that he didn’t do a lot in the second half either. He’s a better-than-Punto utility player.
Thanks thrylos.
Speaking of misery: Bradley apparently attempted to storm the KC annoucer’s booth last night…
Is that really how you want to respond to a guy questioning your ability get on “the right track” ?
Bradley leads the league in SLG, BA, OBP, OPS, is 7th in RBI, 3rd in Runs scored and 5th in HRs. He is having an MVP year and it’s too bad that the Twins did not sign him instead of Monroe for their full time DH.
The incident, according to Dallas morning new was:
Lefebvre said, from what he remembers, that he was complimenting Josh Hamilton and how he’s been accountable for his mistakes and said “it doesn’t appear Milton Bradley has done the same thing in his life.”
“It is an interesting contrast between the two guys,” Lefebvre said. “We also spent a lot of time complimenting Milton Bradley, but that’s not what he heard when he was in the clubhouse.”
Bradley was in tears after it all. Earlier he had hurt his leg and got out of the game. Overreaction, yeah… but the KC announcer had no grounds to make that comment, especially compared to Hamilton’s lifestyle choices, Bradley has been a choir boy. He is nuts and intense on the field, but there is no comparison…
the link is a related post from the Rangers blog
http://rangersblog.dallasnews.com/archives/2008/06/my-take-on-milton.html
What good is it having Buscher in AAA, he has some pop in his bat, let him play everyday with the twins, worse case scenario back to AAA.
On the Bradley thing:
As I’ve stated earlier on this blog, Ryan Levebre is one of my favorite baseball announcers and it absolutely floors me that we had him, now he’s gone, and we’re left with baseball for toddlers.
However, you have to be pretty careful when you’re making statements about a player’s personal life when its not based on strong personal knowledge. Even the simplest conclusions we hear announcers make from time to time, such as “he’s a nice guy” or “what a class act”…these phrases get thrown out a little too much and again, unless it’s based on strong personal knowledge, journalists can end up with their hands in the cookie jar over stuff like that.
So even though I didn’t hear the full context of what Levebre said, as I read the quotes, he definitely made some negative conclusions about Milton Bradley–the only question is were they fairly based on strong personal knowledge. Well, based on his reaction to the story, they certainly were not (Levebre basically went with ‘oh really, I said something negative…ahh, I recall actually complimenting Milton’–nice try, Ryan).
A good lesson for not only broadcasters, but journalists in general….should refrain from making conclusory statements about one’s personal life (either way–positively or negatively) unless it’s based on strong personal knowledge.
Actually, Hamilton only hurt himself and anyone counting on him for money (including his teammates and the organization that drafted him). Bradley’s choices involved physically hurting others. I’m not sure how hurting others compared to hurting yourself makes you a choir boy, thrylos98.
As for comments about your behavior - if it effects your team, then it is fair game to be commented on. If you don’t want to take the heat, don’t work in a job where people pay you millions of dollars to be in the public spot light.
To Howard’s topic:
I think this just reminds us that the Twins are an average team, that will win some and will lose about the same number (or a few more), and that getting all emotional one way or the other every game is tough in a 162 game season.
“Actually, Hamilton only hurt himself and anyone counting on him for money”
mike
I don’t know Hamilton so can’t speak to his case, but substance abusers DO hurt others in their personal life through their behavior. One of the twelve steps involves taking responsibility and making amends for the pain you have caused others (or something like that).
saam, mike others:
Here’s a link to the 12 steps:
and here’s a link to what Bradley said about his situation today
thrylos98,
Ask and we shall receive.
The Baseball America draft database has indicated nine signed Twins draftees as of today.
Maybe I have friends in high places.
Or maybe June 12 is the magic day.
Or maybe nothing…..
That website is:
http://www.baseballamerica.com/draftdb/2008team.php?team=1023
sane,
told ya 
the best place for draft info
i think boof bonser needs a long trial as a middle to late reliever who may pitch two inning he may be the kind of guy that needs to air it out and i think he could succeed with that nasty curve ball he has if he can get it over the plate regularly, my fantasy is that he fills an important role coming in the fifth sixth or seventh inning of a game that is still winnable and can at times dominate with the fastball and particularly his curveball, couple of innings max
jimbo,
That sounds like a plan.
I’m in!
I kind of think the Twins need a mysterious injury for Livan Hernandez. Put him on the shelf for a while, then dust him off right before the trade deadline give him two starts and if he pitches well maybe he has some value to a contender in the NL?
I also would designate Bass for assignment and bring up Danny Graves. Either as a starter or a reliever, and audition him around the major leagues as he has a track record, and a name… so if his arm is healthy… maybe we could pull a deal with the Yankees who think they are still in it, and we could get Hillgoss or Wordekemper, possibly both? An Aball C- prospect, and Wordekemper a AA closer that no one else has heard of.
Monroe, should be getting atbats to see if we can trade him, or have to eat his contract.
Lamb should be looked at as trade bait to a team like the Dodgers who could use a backup 3rd baseman with so many injuries. I don’t think we could get more than a Dru Butera kind of piece of crap for him, but it’s still 6 million less.
This team could be a .500 team this year which is amazing in and of itself, but that’s one of those close only counts in horse shoes and handgrenades senerios. Moral victories are for high school teams.
They started this season way better than I ever expected.
I am also going to over-state the obvious one more time. Joe Vavra, and the hitting coaches throughout the organization need to be fired, and we need to change the philosophy. You think I’m crazy because Morneau won an MVP 2 years ago, and Mauer won a batting title. blah-bity blah blah. The numbers don’t lie. This organization is not bringing enough talent through. We have 31 A to C- level pitching prospects, but Hicks becomes our number 3-4 offensive prospect in the minors the day he signs, and the say he plays his first game he becomes number 1. How sad is that?
A list of the tallent that is failing for the twins in the minors right now…
AAA - Jason Pridie last year out of the organization 32D, 11T, 14HRs, 66RBI, with 26 steals. This year… he is doing his best Nick Punto circa 2007.
AA - Winfree, Moses, (the amazing .289 hitting Derick Martin and the .194 hitting Dru Butera = so much better than Castillo!)
A+ - Whitney Robins a DH with 2 homers, Ramos was supposed to be a hitting prospect,
A - Joe Benson and Chris Parmalee
AAA - Fire Ingrim, AA - Floyd Rayford GONE! A+ - Jim Dwyer - goodbye, A - Rudy Hernandez (who the sam hell is Rudy Hernandez? MLB.com didn’t even know anything about him. A reletive of Vavra it seems?) Fire Joe Vavra take his uniform and burn it at home plate, and pray that the baseball gods allow the twins to at least hit some doubles.
