The Feeder frenzy continues!
Posted on June 26th, 2008 – 9:52 AMBy Howard
A few quick thoughts because it’s a busy day on the real job with the Women’s Open in town and the NBA draft tonight:
*Bottom Feeder Brendan Harris continued holding up the bottom of the order with a home run that caused TXT MSGs to flare up throughout the territory. I know there were people who thought after Tuesday’s game that Harris was one at-bat from getting benched in favor of Punto — before his ninth-inning home run — but I think that may reflect some of our own impatience rather than what’s going on in the manager’s office. I’m seeing a lot of calls for change from a team that’s on a serious winning streak right now, and that disregards the notion that subpar performance can be played through if the rest of the team is picking you up. Someone is always underperforming.
*Alexi Casilla made a great diving play last night. According to Joe C’s blog, it was steeped in a pregame session that Casilla had with Gardy about diving for balls on the backhand side. Interesting payoff.
*San Diego fans are boobs for booing Trevor Hoffman as they did Tuesday night. Total stupid boobs. They deserve what they have on the field. That’s Trevor Hoffman, you idiots.
*Calling for the heads of Monroe and Lamb in favor of Span and Tolbert (when he’s healthy) totally disregards the fact that it’s nice to have power potential on the bench. Come the end of August, if the Twins are still in the chase, that would be the time to add yet another bat or two when rosters expand. Keep in mind last year’s bench and know that would have seen Luis Rodriguez or Rondell White or (gulp) Jason Tyner hitting for Bass last night when Monroe homered.
*I hope Gardy sends a thank you note to Bill Smith for getting Craig Breslow. He’s been fine and he’s made Dennys Reyes better because he doesn’t need to be trotted out there every time a lefty is needed.
*And, finally, the Bottom Feeder update: Last seven games: 28 for 71 (.394) with 21 RBI. That includes pinch hitters in the No. 9 spot but doesn’t include pitcher’s at the plate. My nickname, my rules!
Day game today. You know what could happen if the Twins win and the White Sox lose, right?
other people are here too
110 Responses to "The Feeder frenzy continues!"
Love the idiot blast on the booing of Hoffman!
I wish Lamb and Monroe hit better than they are. But they are much better bench options than what we had last year. I’d like to see Span come up but who would you get rid of?
Yep, the Twins will have 43 wins and the White Sox will have 42.
A point of clarification on Padres’ fans booing Trevor Hoffman: Dick and Bert addressed this last night and the consensus was, after Dick talked to Tony Gwynn about it, the fans were more or less booing the team in general, which in my opinion is completely legit when you’re having the type of season San Diego was. Dick brought up another good point about how the teams from the NL West who seemed to be on the up and up last year with young talent suddenly have taken steps back (Colorado, Arizona, and San Diego). San Diego is in the thick of this decline, so I have little problem with their fans expressing frustration when a HOF closer gives up HRs to guys named Brendan Harris and Brian Buscher (that I have this mindset should come as no suprise to anyone–but I’m sorry, we’re not on the little league diamond…this isn’t play nice time…fans spend lots of money at these events and their voices should be heard).
Oh, the bottom feeders…even Perkins got in the act by laying down a bunt (only in the NL do you applaud a bunt when there’s already 1 out–all hail AL baseball!). We can argue the moot point all we want, but I am CONVINCED that if Brendan Harris strikes out in his last at-bat Tuesday night, it would have been Punto last night…
Which leads me to thoughts about today’s lineup…I don’t think they should mess with it too much…Redmond’s probably a shoe-in, which isn’t all that bad considering Mauer isn’t exactly red-hot since taking over that AL catcher vote lead (although the two-run double last night was huge!)…I am hoping Gardy resists the urge to pencil in the entire b-squad (Lamb, Punto, and Redmond probably shouldn’t all be in the same lineup), but we’ll see what happens…
Craig Monroe….is this guy a bottom feeder? I mean, his average says he is….his spot in the lineup says he is, but this dude can mash…I know we’ve given him his chance to play plenty, but I wonder if Gardy might be tempted down the line to give him a week’s worth of games either at DH or if Cuddy continues to plummet…
9 times…9 times!
This NL stretch has been fun….just hope we have enough left for the Milwaukee series so I can see some drunken ‘Sconnies with long faces…
Get rid of Punto! His defense is vastly over rated
Jason,
I heard the Dick’n'Bert spin on the booing and I just didn’t buy it. We can agree to disagree on booing because I firmly believe in your right to boo. It comes with the ticket. I just think booing Hoffman is dumb.
Monroe’s a BF only because he pinch hit in the 9-hole last night. That gave him temporary membership, like when you go in to check out Sam’s Club for the first time.
Punto would be the odd man out in my mind too, but Gardy wouldn’t easily go for that.
Thanks Howard finally there’s someone else who can see the value of both Monroe and Lamb on the bench. I’ve also said before that i thought picking up Breslow was the best move BS has made so far. Props to the bullpen for doing a great job holding that lead last night. With another day game Sunday i don’t think they’ll rest Mauer today but i wouldn’t be surprised to see little nicky in the lineup somewhere today.
“I wonder if Gardy might be tempted down the line to give him a week’s worth of games either at DH or if Cuddy continues to plummet…”
No! He shouldn’t play over Kubel. And Cuddyer is hitting .301/.386/507 in June… how is that plummeting?
BC of ND - I’ll be on with Jack Michaels sometime this morning on The Fan in Bismarck…
http://www.fan710.com/main.html
Another “solution” to the bench is calling up Span and watching him succeed. Then, you have “he’s only 22″ on the bench as a pinch hitting option. Of course, there is no way of knowing if Span can succeed, but I think he’s earned a shot, and I think he is better than Young right now, and I think that gives the Twins a better chance of winning. I’m not suggesting givng up on Young, but it’s not like Span is some 31 year old never was….
I agree, Howard… you just don’t mess with a team on a roll. You don’t screw around with the starting line up and you don’t mess with the bench/role players either. Sure Lamb and Monroe have failed to live up to expectations, but they’re both guys that are capable of providing a big pinch hit at some point and they’ve been through playoff runs before. If you bring up Span or Tolbert, when he’s healthy, you aren’t going to put them in the starting line up right away anyway so now you’ve got two young guys sitting instead of getting regular ABs in Rochester. Makes little sense.
I was disappointed when Macri was shipped to AAA, but even he would just be getting splinters right now so there’s no point in having him up with the Twins.
By the way… you read that article about Chacon getting physical with his GM down in Houston? Now that, my friends, is a sign of a dysfunctional organization. Hard for me to imagine Boof reacting to his demotion to the bullpen by grabbing Bill Smith around the neck, throwing him to the ground, and sitting on him. Also hard for me to imagine Smith cussing out Boof in the club dining room in the first place, as well.
Yes, fans, no matter how bad it gets around Twins Territory at times, it can always be worse.
Well Seth, that stat on Cuddyer is a little deceiving since he was 6-for-8 in the first two days of June…take June 1 and 2 away and he’s hitting .246 in June…so yeah, I guess I’m not seeing the improvement…
As for Kubel, I was going to let it go, but you brought it up…since my ‘3-for-20′ call, Jason is well on his way this week at 1-for-8…so here’s where Gardy has the opportunity to go with my “Kubel in Moderation” theory and play D. Young (or Monroe, but unlikely) today in place of Kubel…we’ll see how it shakes out…
so bottom line, I agree Monroe appears to have some welcomed pop off the bench and that’s probably where he should be–but the guy’s not ancient, I wouldn’t hestitate to stick him in there for a few days if one of our outfielders or DH is struggling…
Jason,
Thankfully a black cloud in your sky.
Regards,
Dragon I hope not….I have golf league tonight…go away rain!
mww, I’m not sure what Span’s numbers look like in June for Rochester, but Young’s hit .309 with 7 doubles and a HR in just 18 games.
Everyone seems to love jumping on Cuddyer and Young, but it’s Gomez with the .250 average and sub .600 OPS this month.
Kubel’s been swinging a hot bat and with more power than Young, so I certainly have no qualms with him playing @ these NL ballparks. But when the Twins return home and get back to using the DH, I see no reason Young shouldn’t be back in that lineup and certainly no reason to bring up an unproven replacement from AAA.
at this point dfa lamb and monroe to be replaced by unproven minor league players like span/tolbert isn’t a good move. first you waste a bunch of uncle carl’s money and there isn’t any reason to think they will be better. now if you could bring in a 3b option say like atkins or kouzmanoff that hit for some power that would make sense. the only move i see is livan going after the all star break and liriano coming up. of course how they pitch until then could change that thinking. don’t really see any dh/of types out there right now that would be much better than monroe.
It is funny how a lot of us talk about trading away Livan…the guy’s on pace for 19 wins!
I realize that comes with somewhat of an asterisk, but having a veteran presence in the starting rotation is also a good thing, I believe (even if it is only for a second half push)
“but the guy’s not ancient, I wouldn’t hestitate to stick him in there for a few days if one of our outfielders or DH is struggling…”
Why? Monroe is not a good hitter. He just isn’t. In Monroe’s 33 starts this year, he is hitting .219/.276/.412. He isn’t good. I guess I just don’t know what else to say. You complain about Kubel’s hitting nearly every single day, yet want Craig Monroe to get more at bats? I don’t understand it. The only dimension that Craig Monroe brings to this team is power off the bench. He isn’t hitting nearly well enough to bench someone like Cuddyer or Young to make room for him. He isn’t even hitting lefties this year, which was his “specialty” coming in.
I understand resting a starter like Cuddyer or Kubel and playing Monroe for a game. Giving him a weeks worth of at bats would be a bad decision.
Gomez has too much potential that is realized from game to game he needs the game experiences - through last night he has only played 131 MLB games
this is still a 2 year rebuilding project despite Twin’s current run through mediocre NL teams the young players need development time
One quibble: I really don’t care if a guy is capable of hitting homers if he only makes solid contact twice a month. Lamb and Monroe have each made solid contact twice in June. Both of Monroe’s were homers. Lamb’s were a single and a line out. I would much rather have guys who make solid contact every third plate appearance without homers than guys who have made solid contact one out of every 15 plate appearances with homers.
Jason,
For someone who doesn’t trust many statistical metrics in baseball, you certainly like to selectively cite scripture for your purpose when the need arises.
The Twins have just beaten four Cy Young winners in five games. They are on an eight game win streak. Life is good.
pete if you haven’t noticed the players worth on this blog is equal to how many homeruns he hits.
that’s why we have people wanting span to come up replace young, span is a real homerun hitter unlike young who has never been one or claimed to be one.
I agree generally, Pete D…but we’ll see how things pan out; whether or not Cuddy or Jason drop below the Kubel line (.240).
Also, Monroe’s avg. is based on 125 at-bats. He has 7 HR in 125 ABs…a full season at that clip gives him over 30. And he’s a career .250 hitter…
Let’s see: 8 game winning streak, half place off 1st, for the first time the season scoring more runs than giving up, there is no reason messing up with the lineup, esp. sitting Mauer for Redmond. The team has a 3-9 record when Redmond starts (not coincidentally). Unless someone is hurt or exhausted, Gardy should stick with it given that there are off days in the schedule
Seth i caught you on the Fan today very nice job you had some great takes. I agree with your thoughts on the Twins management there’s a possibility that they might know more about the game then the majority of us.
Jason, Livan might be on pace for 19 wins because he’s had great run support. That “asterik” you refer to must be that he’s also on pace to be the first pitcher to allow more than 300 hits in a season since Atlanta’s Phil Nierko in 1979. He’s the only pitcher I get nervous about stepping on the mound. I really hope Liriano will be ready by the All-Star break.
Which is why I think Span deserves a shot. None of the Twins’ OFers is having a good year. IF Span has turned a corner, it would be nice to know that.
Young is 12th in the AL in OPS for LFers, even in his hot month of June (of those with more than 40 ABs).
Cuddy is 7th. Gomez 17th! (june numbers, AL, those with at least 30+ ABs).
Span has earned a shot. No one in the OF is irreplacable right now. He’s no less proven than Young or Gomez, so arguing he isn’t proven doesn’t make a ton of sense to me.
Cuddy compared to RFers in the AL, Gomez to CFers.
The stats of the Twins when Mauer is sitting are a little frightening, but I wouldn’t have a problem resting Joe today, just as long as Gardy sticks with what’s been working and doesn’t go with his B-squad lineup elsewhere, as someone mentioned earlier.
Jason,
The only thing that should be in done moderation is your constant “Kubel in moderation” rant.For someone who claimed the other day that he wants Kubel to succeed,you sure get a lot of pleasure out of seeing him (in your opinion)fail.
Monroe is lucky he has a spot on the bench to pinch hit from.There is no reason what so ever to take AB away from Young,Kubel,or Cuddyear in favor of Monroe.
BC of ND,
I often agree with Seth’s take, BUT after reading these blogs, it is obvious Seth is incorrect.
The Twin’s Management doesn’t know squat. Heck, the team is 6 games over .500. With competent management, they’d have 130+ wins already.
Regards,
“take June 1 and 2 away and he’s hitting .246 in June…”
Take away payday, and we’ll never get paid.
That’s how you have good months/weeks/years.
You get one hit per day and occasionally you have a 3 or 4 hit day.
Exactly how does that detract from the total?
As for Kubel, I was going to let it go, but you brought it up…since my ‘3-for-20? call, Jason is well on his way this week at 1-for-8…
Joe Mauer (1-for-9) is well on his way also. It’s not exactly a bold call, and again, if Kubel does go 3-for-20 he still has better numbers than Monroe for June. And better numbers against lefties, which is why Monroe is here in the first place.
I’m against tinkering too much with a team that has won 8 in a row. As Howard said, you’re always going to have someone on a cold streak. Hopefully you have enough other people on hot streaks (as the Twins do) to make up for it.
Chances are fairly good that someone will get hurt or play bad enough to give Span and Liriano their shot. But if the team stays healthy and plays well enough not to need them until September, so much the better.
Barring an injury or trade, you are not going to see Span in a Twins uniform until September. You can dream all you want about a call-up based on merit, but it’s not going to happen.
Buscher made the most of an opportunity in the way we all like to see it done. The provem major leaguer was struggling. Buscher got in there and has forced the issue. It had nothing to do with long-range plans or letting the veteran come around; Buscher got in the lineup and he’s made it difficult to take him out.
On who should be getting more ABs, I think we’ve been spoiled over the last few years by the weak-hitting bench, if that makes any sense. Normal major-league teams customarily have a few guys on the bench who, on their good days, look like they should be getting 400-500 at-bats. Here in Minnesota, we’ve had the everyday guys and then we’ve had Luis Rodriguez, et. al. The decisions were always comparatively easy. Now Gardenhire can throw a bench guy in there who at least has the potential to cause damage.
Thanks, Doug…
Well, of course I want Kubel to succeed–I want every Twin to succeed! But if I’m hearing you right, that means I have to refrain from voicing an opinion about how I would use certain players and what I believe their potential to be?
The “Kubel in Moderation” thing is satire…don’t you get that? It’s a play on the ridiculous notion that Kubel needed “freeing”, as though Gardy has been using him wrong all this time–a movement held for a long time by many fans on this blog and culiminating with an explosive internet campaign a couple months ago after one of his hot streaks.
The satire is this–whether it be frustration over sharing time with Rondell White, Jason Tyner, or Lew Ford of all people, or platooning at DH with Craig Monroe this season, the fact is Gardy has been right all along on Jason Kubel…he’s not a Kirby Puckett in the making…if he was, we would have known it by now. So all I’m doing is dousing the flames shot off by those who have for months and months (if not years) continue to attempt to hypnotize us into thinking we have something other than what we have.
In any event, maybe he goes off today and shuts me up…not likely though, correct? (and by that I mean either scenario)
“Chances are fairly good that someone will get hurt or play bad enough to give Span and Liriano their shot. But if the team stays healthy and plays well enough not to need them until September, so much the better”
YUP–I agree with that–lets see Twins have won 8 in a row–beaten 4 former CY winners in the streak. Why the griping??
Keep the lineup intact and dont destroy the chemistry–played NBP (for those of you who remember Bat Girl) once a week for Mauer–maybe LNP once a week too.
DAM
sane…the argument was Cuddyer has been plummeting…Seth’s comeback was look at his June numbers (as if the stats point to the fact that he’s not plummetting), the comeback was yes, but take away the first two days and the stats still point to the fact that the plummet continues…I didn’t say take away Tuesdays and Thursdays…my comeback was consistent with my point. I’m guessing most understood that.
Cuddy has actually had 8 games in June where he did not get a hit he has regressed and shown none of his previous power.. he has gotten 7 hits in his last 21 ABs to raise his average above .250 so perhaps his season long slump is over..
Dragon that’s a good point if only they would follow the advice of the overreacting bloggers and make personnel decision on a game by game basis they would easily be undefeated this year.
Span will get his (second) chance this year come September. In the 2 weeks he was here he did not light the place on fire. He had no extra base hits and his OPS was .582 (for comparison Monroe has a .714 OPS, Kubel .764, Cuddyer .705, Young .692, Gomez .685.) And whether or not he deserve a(nother) shot is arguable. McDonald and Ruiz should be called up before him. The last thing this team needs is another light hitting left handed outfielder at this point.
Jason,
If he is hitting .254 for the season and .246 for the last 3 weeks, IMO that’s not plummeting.
That’s hitting .008 below your crappy season average.
In fact, if you want to break it down even further on Cuddyer, if you take away the four-game series with the Yankees (I know this requires a little imagination), he would be batting .233 on the season with 2 HR and 29 RBI.
Combine that with 2007, and I think “plummet” is a fairly accurate term…the idea that June 2008 is an exception to this rule is skewed only by the fact that the first two days of June was also part of that Yankees series…
Am I spinning the stats too much there?
I wanter if the expectant father situation was a stress factor for Cuddyer this season and now we could expect things to become better.
wrong excuse, thrylos….La Velle gave it to us on KFAN yesterday…it’s the finger(s) injury.
thrylos98,
If you think Span “did not light the place on fire”, check Darnell McDonald’s one crummy single in 10 AB with three strikeouts in last year’s audition.
He was so overmatched that I (and probably he) hoped he could escape to AAA with a little pride intact.
He had no clue on MLB breaking balls and couldn’t catch up to fast balls.
In some cases (McDonald and Ruiz), AAA stats just don’t project to MLB.
Jason,
Am I the only one missing your “satire” I think not.Your constant pronosticating Kubels down fall is done only slightly less than your more constant patting yourself on the back when you occasionally hit on something.The Kubel line(.240)is a Jason fabrication, since Kubel is a lifetime .260+ hitter and the only time he has had more than 400 AB he hit .273(last year).
As for shutting you up,I wouldn’t want to deny you the pleasure of reading your own material.It’s quite obvious you are enamored in your own writen words.
it has got to be a factor.. I have always taken 3 weeks or more time off from work when my kids were born.. what did Cuddy take.. 2 or 3 days?
Am I spinning the stats too much there?
Yeah, I am having a hard time keeping up AND doing my Special Ed homework.
For the last 30 days, Cuddyer is htting .293 or 58th in the majors with 19 RBI’s which is bested by 23 major leaguers.
I totally get the value of Monroe and Lamb and value - they are on the bench and not in the lineup. Someone had the nerve to mention Lamb included as power on the bench
Jason, in the past 24 hours, Morneau has gone 0-4 and committed two errors. Mauer’s let his BA slip about five points in the past two days. Maybe we should bench them for awhile, huh? YES, you’re spinning the stats too much. I agree entirely with the point sane made earlier. You can’t pick apart days to try to make a point. Every player has good and bad days, and you need to look at the overall picture.
Jason,
I apologize for the last paragraph I wrote.I can disagree with you,as i almost always do,but I don’t need to get mean spirited about it.
tim,
“For the last 30 days, Cuddyer is htting .293 or 58th in the majors with 19 RBI’s which is bested by 23 major leaguers.”
I guess that is what Jason meant by plummeting.
No prob Doug, nothing but love here
…if you think loving to read one’s written word is a trait held by me alone (i.e., if you don’t think it’s held by almost every other commenter here, not to mention the authors of the blogs, not to mention columnists and reporters across the country, well, then we see it differently).
As for the merits of my arguments…I think I’ve been right quite a bit here if you break it down:
1. Was dead wrong about Lew Ford (still saddened to this day)
2. Predicted Cuddy would have a down year following a huge signing…we’re seeing it with our very own eyes
3. Predicted the Twins would go on a tear through the NL portion of the schedule (probably not to this degree, but was correct)
4. Opine that Kubel is an average outfielder at best, when you add it all up–average, power, and speed.
Where you’re misunderstanding the issue and why I continue to monitor No. 4, is because of the equally laughable and unyielding force we get from the other side (i.e. those who argue and argue that Kubel is a rising star and we should just sit back, let him do his thing, and marvel at the results)…that mindset has carried the day on these blogs for so, so long…it’s been argued that Gardy was holding him back, it’s been argued that bad luck has been holding him back (cause he hits so many balls hard for outs), and it’s been argued that lack of a steady roll on the team has been holding him back….
The reason I keep going back to the well is because I want people to admit they were wrong on this thing and no one will. So I feel the need to be equally absurd in expressing my viewpoint on this topic; hence the satire. It’s not driven by bitterness, it’s not driven by a desire to see one fail (cause I’d much rather be wrong and have the Twins win than be right and have them lose)…sorry for boring everyone, there.
sane, you’re the one doing the spinning with that stat, not me…take away June 1 and 2 and re-work the numbers…
Jason - not boring at all
Jason,
What is your definition of the word “YEAR”?
I presume you mean a season?
If so, On what basis is constant comment appropriate to either confirm or rebut your prediction?
I guess I was in error in presuming THE season was actually 162 games long ending sometime in late September.
IF you have the precise numbers Cuddyer will have for the season, and guarantee any losses, I’ll take them and make some nice money, investing on same.
Regards,
Jason,
Take away the last 8 games and the Twins are a marginal loser.
Take away ALL their wins and they are a disaster.
Regards,
Dragon…that’s why I said “we’re seeing it”…Cuddy has the second half to prove me (and other doubters) wrong, you’re absolutely right.
But my opinion differs from that of La Velle, who was so bold to opine on KFAN yesterday that Cuddy will come on strong in the near future. I like La Velle, respect his opinion, he’s a heck of a lot closer to this team than I am, but you won’t hear me making that claim…the regression has been steady for a year and a half now…if Span replaces anyone for next year, it just might be Cuddyer, who knows.
Jason,
“take away June 1 and 2 and re-work the numbers…”
I’d rather just use ALL the numbers until June 1 and June 2 are legally removed from June.
Its called cherry-picking, when you remove any data which fails to prove your point.
Jason,
It would be interesting IF we ever happened to watch the same game(s).
Also, you can diss an injury and opine it’s inconsequential, I think history is not on your side in that discussion.
Doubters CAN NOT be proven wrong, they will just find convenient subtractions from the statistics to find proof for their hypothesis.
Reminds me of what my Freshman College Statistics class Professor(1971) said in the opening of the class…”Figures NEVER lie, BUT liars figure”…Then he explained that to mean that the statistics are what they are, yet each user cuts, slices, dices…to reach that perfect stastic to justify their argument.
Regards,
One thing that needs to be said about Kubel is that he had been steadily improving on fly ball vs line drive power. Here are his raw numbers the last 3 years:
2006: 220AB 53H 8 2B 0 3B 8 HR 12 BB 45 K
2007: 418AB 114H 31 2B 2 3B 13 HR 41 BB 79 K
2008: 231AB 56H 7 2B 3 3B 10 HR 21 BB 43 K
would he be an elite player? Here is an interesting comparable for another power hitting lefty (David Ortiz) when he was 24, 25, 26 years old like Kubel was from 2006-8:
2000: 415AB 117H 36 2B 1 3B 10 HR 57 BB 81 K
2001: 303AB 71H 17 2B 1 3B 18 HR 40 BB 68 K
2002: 412AB 112H 32 2B 1 3B 20 HR 43 BB 87 K
Ortiz’s peak was reached at ages 28-31 (his second year in Boston) when 2 things happened for him: He developed fly ball vs line drive power (hitting more HRs than doubles) and developed better pitch selection. Kubel so far this season has already shown that he developed one of them. I think that it is critical to develop better pitch selection, because that is what separates David Ortiz from David Kingman. Whether he will end up like Ortiz or like Kingman, is too early to tell, but it’s worth a shot to wait and see and work with him on pitch selection, before reaching premature conclusions (like this team did with Ortiz and the rest is history).
Seems to me if you took away any player’s best two days in a 30 day period, his stats would not look as impressive. But hey, what do I know?
I don’t know if people are griping or not. I wouldn’t put suggesting ways to make them better in the class of griping.
Here’s how I view it:
Everyone would trade Book for ARod right now - therefore, eveyone is willing to change the lineup even when they are winning 8 in a row. The question is, how far down the utility curve are you willing to go? I think most would trade Boof for Atkins or however you spell his name from SD - that is certainly down the curve from ARod. I would also be willing to go even further, and go down to cutting Lamb and bringing up Span (or Monroe, but i think Monroe has more value than Lamb).
So, it isn’t really a question of “they’ve won 8 in a row - I’d never make any change”, but “they’ve won 8 in a row, how marginal (in terms of utility and risk) of a change are you willing to make?”.
Book = Boof, btw…
I’d trade Boof for Book.
I say we throw out everyone’s multi-hit games when computing averages. It will restore statistical parity to the league.
a very sane trade indeed
“We can argue the moot point all we want, but I am CONVINCED that if Brendan Harris strikes out in his last at-bat Tuesday night, it would have been Punto last night…”
You must love being able to come up with excuses as to how you were still right.
“Oh Harris saved himself from being benched. Prove me wrong!”
The best part is, doubters make statements like this all the time…and then when proof comes (from statements from players or coaches or front office staff, you’ll just call them liars)
boof needs a change of teams but can they get anything for him selling low? doubt it, but a decent young arm somebody might take a chance.
how about (one of) our favorite players to hate kyle lohse? 9 or 10 wins who would have thunk that? he’ll place higher in the cy young than santana!!
The sun will rise in the West someday.
Prove me wrong!
Hey guess what… sure Morneau is hitting .304 for the month of June, but if you take out June 9 and June 12, he’s only hitting .262 for the month.
Someone tell Gardy to sit the bum down.
“Seems to me if you took away any player’s best two days in a 30 day period, his stats would not look as impressive.”
No kidding. Without Ozzie’s Series win and he’s a terrible manager.
Take away 500 saves and who the heck is Trevor Hoffman?
If we just ignore the 600+ homeruns, is Griffey really that good?
Heck, the Yankees have horrible postseason success (if we ignore the 26 or so championships)
What I find most humorous about Jason’s usage of cherry picked, largely irrelevant, small sample sized stats, is that he won’t hesitate to rail on someone who actually uses relevant and telling statistics simply because he doesn’t understand them.
“Someone tell Gardy to sit the bum down.”
And if you ignore all of 2007, Nick Punto’s a dang fine hitter.
Why hasn’t Gardy been starting this guy more?
And if you ignore all of 2007, Nick Punto’s a dang fine hitter.
Assuming of course you also ignore the entirety of his career, sans 2006.
T: “You must love being able to come up with excuses as to how you were still right.”
i may have missed it T but i don’t ever remember you admitting when you were wrong, but you are always free to point out when i am, or anyone else is wrong which of course i may be now! how about when you called me stupid on the rincon cut/cleared waiver deal?
I’ve enjoyed the insight…like I said, “cheerypicking” June 1 and 2 is relevant because they barely made the cut for June…the fact that Cuddy’s hit .246 since June 2 is more instructive of a recent trend, if you ask me….
a heck of a lot more instructive than simply saying “he’s hit .301 in June; he’s had a hot June”
But hey, like I said, keep ‘em coming…
T–I was never asked to be proven “right” or “wrong” on the Harris / Punto thing…just saying I was convinced of that…if I would’ve been wrong, so be it!
thrylos98
great post on kubel at 12:18. best read i’ve seen from a blogger in a long time. interesting comparison to ortiz.
the funny thing to me is I wonder if Jason watched the first two games of the series. Kubel in game 1 drilled the ball the first three times he was up with one being caught a step in front of the wall in dead center. last night went 1-4, BB Run, and had another drive to center that again just missed. if we were in the dome Kubel is hitting 3-8 with 2 HR. but we’re not and Jason the poster and his prediction is on his way to being correct.
Jason-
I’ll chime in with you on Kubel: he’ll have hot streaks, but I think Gardy is handling him correctly. For those of you who think the manager is mis-handling him, just look at the Casilla situation. Alexi is doing the job, so coach is sticking with him. If Kubel could show that consistency, he would be penciled in on a daily basis, home or away, NL or AL opponent.
Let’s give a little credit to the coaches on the field. They MIGHT know a little bit more about baseball than those of us who just like to read our words on this blog…:-)
Jim Crikket & T
Cherry-picking the 2 best days is fine, the rule of cherry-picking IS NOT violated until you eliminate the 3 best days.
Please bone up on the Rules of Cherry-Picking.
Regards,
yes thrylos i’ve watched every AB of the series…and I apologize for not adding in the extra “Kubel” points for how hard or far the ball was hit…because no one else in baseball has those things happen, as we know…
I also failed to cite his “Line Drive Percentage”, which means I really don’t get it.
Now do you guys see why I keep going back to this well?
thyrlos actually wrote this:
“if we were in the dome Kubel is hitting 3-8 with 2 HR.”
That’s what I’m up against.
my bad thrylos, I meant JP…but thrylos is a co-conspirator by going back to the “line drive percentage” card….
(I’ve yet to hear one baseball commentator–print or broadcast–reference “line drive percentage” as a stat in my entire life)
I’m also up against this mindset:
“Whether he will end up like Ortiz or like Kingman, is too early to tell,”
wow, and you guys thought I dreamed too much about Lew Ford’s ability…it’s too early to tell if Jason Kubel can average over 40 HRs in a five year span (Ortiz 2003-2007)????
Umm…I’ll go out on a limb and say he won’t at this early stage of the game, I guess.
You’re up against? lol its phrases like that I just giggle at. Do you realize you sound like a tool when you post stuff like that? Actually more of a narcissist.
You don’t need to add points for Kubel for hitting the ball hard. There is a big difference in saying a guy will struggle and go 3-20, and watching the guy have GOOD AT BATS against PEAVY (one best pitcher in baseball when healthy) and Maddux (a very good pitcher).
But whatever. I grew tired of this last year when you argued against Kubel and promoted Tyner and Ford. And its boring me again this year.
fair enough, JP…and I’m equally tired with hearing about how Kubel would be nothing short of an All-Star if not for the baseball Gods, who constantly direct his smash hits to the gloves of the opponents or send his long fly balls to the deepest parts of the ball park…
let’s just let the stats play out and go from there, shall we…and as I’ve said, if I’m wrong on Kubel, I will be the first to admit it…I was wrong on Cuddyer in 2006, and I became a huge Cuddy fan by season’s end!
I’ve yet to hear one baseball commentator–print or broadcast–reference “line drive percentage” as a stat in my entire life
Well, that seals it. It must be a worthless stat.
The facts (which I’ve repeated before) are that Kubel was at one time the best hitting prospect in the Twins organization, and that he was the team’s best hitter from mid-May through the end of last year. He had an ugly 2006 coming off of a career-threatening injury, and he had a lousy month from mid-April to mid-May of this year. Despite that awful stretch, he’s second on the team in SLG & HR (minimum 100 AB). He’s outhit Craig Monroe (the other DH option) against RHP and LHP. Call it setting him “free” or whatever you want, Kubel is the team’s best option at DH, period.
I wouldn’t have a problem with Monroe getting at-bats at DH against nasty lefthanders, but to this point he’s hitting worse against lefties. Given that, his role on this team is exactly as it should be - emergency power threat off the bench, and nothing more.
“(I’ve yet to hear one baseball commentator–print or broadcast–reference “line drive percentage” as a stat in my entire life)”
Are these the same broadcasters who won’t consider a guy Cy Young material until he has 20 wins?
Or are these the same broadcasters who look at David Eckstein and Augie Ojeda as high-impact players on a roster?
“if I would’ve been wrong, so be it!”
That’s just it, you made a statement that can never BE wrong. Because like everybody who isn’t you has pointed out, you’ve just asked us to prove a negative.
Harris’ starting spot was never on the line because Gardy himself said Punto’s not walking into a starting job.
That and Harris has now started EVERYGAME SINCE PUNTO’S COME BACK.
“let’s just let the stats play out and go from there, shall we…”
The stats have been playing out for a while now. You’re just watching the wrong game.
it’s too early to tell if Jason Kubel can average over 40 HRs in a five year span (Ortiz 2003-2007)????
yes it is. It was too early to tell whether Ortiz could do that when he was at Kubel’s age, and the team gave up on him. All I am saying is a. do not repeat past mistakes and b. Kubel needs to develop better pitch selection before he gets at the Ortiz level and the coaching staff should focus on that. The numbers say that Kubel at 24-26 has numbers pretty similar to Ortiz at 24-26.
as much as I hate to admit it the self-appointed “Blog Monitor” has some valid points (clap clap clap)
“i may have missed it T but i don’t ever remember you admitting when you were wrong”
I’ve said countless times that I was fooled just like everybody else on Punto after 06.
I’ve been saying for a while that I was wrong about Monroe being outright dumped, and could serve a purpose as a bench option.
From the moment he was aquired, I had Delmon pegged as batting 3rd by the end of the year (between Mauer and Morneau), and because I figured Delmon would produce better than he has…figured the rest of the lineup could pick up Everett’s light bat.
I’ve admitted when I’m wrong. The difference is that when I realize I’m mistaken, I don’t back into a wall and start recahing for whatever cherry picked stat I can find. I just say “Good point”, shut up, and move on.
I’m not going to read 90 plus posts but RE: Booing Hoffman
We aren’t talking about Trevor Hoffman circa 2000. Hoffman has fallen into the Todd Jones and Joe Borowski level. Just because he was your closer for so long doesn’t mean he has to be your closer until he retires. He has been below average for the last couple of years. If I were the Padres I would look to move him for whatever you can get. An old over the hill closer on a horrible team should be traded while he still has some value.
i truly apologize T
That’s a valid point, T
…on being wrong, admitting it and moving on, but where am I wrong on Kubel? Like you said, the stats have panned themselves out…and unless you’re digging into the vault of stats which include “line drive percentage” or “hit right at them percentage” or “deep fly ball percentage”, the stats show that he’s an average outfielder / DH, thus, there’s really no harm in platooning him with Monroe…he doesn’t need freeing.
“i truly apologize T”
About the Rincon thing, I don’t remember what it was I said. But if I was rude about it I do apolgoize. From what I do recall, it was something to do with me saying that we would’ve heard about it in the Strib if it were true.
Though they’ve been scooped before on stuff. I don’t normally mean anything malicious behind what I say. I’ve been working on the snark level a bit. Hopefully it shows.
“as much as I hate to admit it the self-appointed “Blog Monitor” has some valid points (clap clap clap)”
Hey now! YOU gave me that title! And I’m starting to wonder when I’ll start recieving a benefits package. I’ll accept tickets, souveniers…and maybe a roster spot. 
Jason,
A better question…Where are you correct on Kubel?
Oops… I forgot that from 9:57pm on Tuesday through 10:01pm Tuesday you may have been correct.
Regards,
jama
you would move Hoffman? WHAT? This is the ML all time leader in saves. the HEART and SOUL of this team for quite some time. yes he is not as dominating as he used to be, in fact just a slightly above average closer now. but he has earned the right to retire AS A PADRE. if the team needs to have a discussion with him on when that happens, so be it. if you’ve every been in the san diego area, he is a CLASS ACT, very active in charity. and i’ve talked to several people who have had the good fortune of buying him a beer and hanging out with a good ole boy.
Dragon…
Umm, well let’s not leave anything out and just go with his career numbers:
.264 avg / 33 HR / 136 RBI in 929 at-bats…
that’s everything; that’s the whole shooting match…although i’m not sure if it accounts for hard-hit outs or long fly-ball outs…
still, looks pretty average to me.
you’re losing me with the ‘Bottom Feeder’ stuff Howie. Plain and simple: it’s a bad nickname. Please do us all a favor and let’s let Ozzie come up with the nutty names.
T - I can’t take credit someone else gave you that moniker.. as far as benefits - you get free mental health coverage by attending these blogs!
Jason,
“That’s a valid point, T
…on being wrong, admitting it and moving on, BUT……”
The “BUT” says it all!
The next time that you admit that you were wrong will be your first time…… lifetime.
Anyone see that Brian Runge got a 10game suspension for bumping Jerry Manuel? Anyone think Manual would’ve only gotten a game if he’d bumped Runge? Yeah, neither to I.
Jason - that’s everything; that’s the whole shooting match…
Including 2006, when Kubel was recovering from a major injury. There’s every reason to think that he’s better than his career line, when his career line is put in proper context.
Speaking of Kubel, he just doubled and scored to give the Twins the lead.
Sorry, that should say “1-game suspension.”
Sweep! Sweep! Sweep! I can’t wait for Harris to go through puberty.
Also, I’ve begun using Nick Punto as a derogatory word.
Example: What a Nick Punto.
Bring back Macri!
Next time I rip Bill Smith, remind of how magical McHale was tonight with his two 2nd round picks.
This team ain’t broke - quit trying to fix it!
sploorp, so you’d turn down ARod for Boof? Probably not. The question is, if you can make the team better, why not do a deal? The “it ain’t broke” philosophy is widely credited with the utter demise of the US auto industry. You should always be trying to get better, always.
Mike Lamb “power potential on the bench???????” What a joke. Lamb and Everett need to be back in Houston or down at New Britain. Everett is over the hill and will be lucky to hit .200. Lamb is a never was who will hit .215 and give you the potential of a weak ground ball or a pop up off the bench. Release Lamb and recall Macri. Everett needs to go also and not take up a roster spot.
