Thrilling times with the Twins
Posted on July 7th, 2008 – 8:19 AMBy Howard
Nice weekend, huh? First the Twins dismantle Cleveland on Friday and then pull off come-from-behinders on Saturday and Sunday in very, very different ways. It was a continuous assault of offense that allowed them to catapult to victory on Saturday night and a disciplined rally against the half-season’s best AL starter, Cliff Lee, that finished off the sweep. And for good measure, CC Sabathia has been sent to the National League.
Those who predicted in your comments that the Twins would be 12 games over .500 a week before the All-Star break can come down to Kirby Puckett place over the noon hour today and pick up your medals.
It’s pretty sweet right now. Watching the Twins maneuver and wiggle and shake things into all the right places has been almost as rewarding as watching, what Ms. Baseball calls, the celebratory man love that has been a staple of the dugout and post-game scenes. Success has been a combo platter of tangible and intangible, and I dare anyone to say that both don’t have a place in the team’s success.
Yes, as much as I like numbers, I think there’s something to the wisdom of an aging pitcher whose team has managed to win in 13 of his 19 starts, even though his statistics look like something out of a Carlos Silva nightmare. And there’s something to the presence of a veteran such as Craig Monroe, whose .222 average is secondary to the threat he poses from the bench and the advice he’s reportedly provided to Delmon Young (and probably others). I think there was something to the two-game sabbatical Nick Punto was given after his petulant and substandard return to action during the Milwaukee series the weekend before last. (You should know that, while gathered around the XM on the Upper Peninsula, Punto’s home run Friday night was greeted by more laughs than cheers among those assembled.)
Tangibles need a complement of heart and smarts to be successful over the grind that is the baseball season. Ray Miller, the frequently (and rightfully) maligned manager for parts of the 1985 and ‘86 season, called it getting your team in “position to win.” Unfortunately for Miller, he didn’t really know how to get ‘em there in the way that Tom Kelly did, and in the way that Gardy has done more often than not during his tenure.
What is the mix of tangible and intangible that makes a manager decide when to move around a bunch of infielders who can play multiple positions? The mix that led Gardy to resist whatever temptation there may have been to take his best shortstop, Alexi Casilla, and keep him at second base while installing the range-impaired but steady-gloved Brendan Harris at shortstop … and then picking the right time (this weekend) to flip Harris and Punto between third base and shortstop against left-handed pitchers?
How do you call Carlos Gomez on the maddening stuff — forgetting the number of outs, the two-strike bunts, the brain cramps on the bases — without taking away the aggressiveness that makes him the best defensive center fielder in the majors? (The “best” contention is based on the wonky and very useful “zone rating.” Here’s a link to the ratings and another one to an explanation– and, while you’re checking them out, take a look at where that Torii Hunter fellow ranks this year.)
Casilla, Brian Buscher and Denard Span have all been put to the best use at just the right time, and the same can be said to a lesser extent for Macri, Tolbert and even Howie Clark. The front office has resisted false pride and has not talked up the Triple-A pitchers received in the Santana deal (Humber and Mulvey) at the expense of the current staff. And the early-season Liriano mistake is becoming a distant memory, as are Rincon in the bullpen and Boof in the rotation.
Of course, intangibles mean little if Mauer isn’t second in the league in on-base percentage and Morneau in RBI … and Jason Kubel doesn’t slug homers and Joe Nathan doesn’t dominate the ninth … and the young starters don’t mature and the team isn’t third in runs scored (despite being last in homers). Tangibles beat studs Ben Sheets and Cliff Lee (20-2 against everyone else, 1-2 against the Twins) on successive Sundays, with intangibles sealing the deal.
By the end of the series, despite all the pain Cleveland inflicted on us last year, I was feeling a bit bad for ‘em. Minus Pronk, Martinez and Carmona — and with a closer who was just sent to the minors — they are a pitiful shadow of the ‘07 team and in the process of being dismantled and put back together. (Can the Twins get Casey Blake, please?)
Only a bit, though. I was too busy being thrilled about what the home team did this weekend.
One more thing: Nice to see the deserving Mauer, Morneau, Nathan combination get their All-Star props. Congrats to Johan and Torii, too.
What, they didn’t make it?
As TK would say, “Aw, that’s a shame.”
other people are here too
137 Responses to "Thrilling times with the Twins"
Great post Howard. Loved the snarky little joke at the end!
love reading your columns, howard. thanks for all your coverage
nice to enjoy this unexpected “contending” during a rebuilding time.. ride the wave as long as it lasts!!
I was genuinely surprised Johan didn’t wind up there this season. Hasn’t he gone every year since he won his first Cy Young? I thought for SURE he’d have been a lock once he moved to the New York market.
His numbers aren’t all that different are they? I know he doesn’t have as many wins (which we all know is the most important stat for a starter), but is the fact he’s now in the much more critical NY market the reason he got snubbed? Does his standard performance suddenly become substandard simply because of the spotlight?
Now Hunter? Torii’s only been twice, once via the fan vote and then…last year?…during his Contract Season.
But I saw he finished way down in 13th in OF voting, and I seem to recall him usually finishing around the top five or so in the OF. But hey, he’s over in another BIG market now. And he’s no longer the “face” of the team he’s playing for. Could that have killed his chances?
In other sectors, it’s amazing that Ortiz still manages to win the starting DH spot even after being on the DL for at least two weeks (during which his lead was actually INCREASING). Reminds me of when Nomar was still elected to the starting roster after suffering an injury halfway through May and being out until July. Up until about two weeks before the deadline he was buiding a steady lead in the voting. Face it, most baseball fans are dumb.
I did see Kubel took 5th in the DH voting. Though admittedly aside from the DH’s that finished ahead of him I can’t think of many other DH’s in the AL.
Glad Longoria got a nod as a potential bench player in the “Final Vote”. I think I’ll pass on sending another Yankee and instead give the rookie the chance he deserves.
I’m just glad the starting 9 for the AL won’t be the typical BoSox/Yanks 60/40 us AL fans typically have to suffer through (which is why for the past 5-6 years I’ve been rooting for the NL).
I have to hand it to the NL crowd, they tend to really follow the overall picture, as usually the best team is the one best represented, though it may not always be the right guys.
And with the voting now available worldwide, can we just pencil in Ichiro and Fukudome into the starting OF for their respective leagues? I don’t think you’re ever going to see a voting contingent that’s going to bump those guys when they’ve got an entire nation backing them.
Let’s just hope that one doesn’t ever find his way on to a team in the other’s league. We’d have the most bring OF ever.
Francona’s said he’s likely going to name Bradley the AL DH in Ortiz’s absence. There’s no word who will take the role for the NL (though everybody wants it to be Pujols)
With that in mind…what kind of lineup does the AL and NL put together? I think the only things set in stone are Ichiro leading off, A-Rod cleanup, and Pedroia 9th. From there…?
Suzuki (speed threat at the top of the order)
Mauer (ability to get on base, see lots of pitches, can’t picture him hitting in the bottom half)
Ramirez (start slugging early and often)
Rodrqiuez (a-duh!)
Bradley (this lineup just won’t quit)
Hamilton (you could make an argument for any arrangement of 3-6)
Youkilis (great hitter, but also pop incase some how there’s men on base after everyone that’s hit before him)
Jeter (I just can’t see him hitting much higher with all the power in this lineup)
Pedroia (boy among men)
This will likely not even be CLOSE to what the AL puts out there. But it’s a way to start things off.
I should note that if this lineup was the one they actually put out there…Hanky would find a way to fire Francona for daring to put Jeter anywhere other than the top of the lineup at Yankee Stadium.
Though the panic attack out of New York and ESPN over-analysis of the decision to do so would be HILARIOUS pre-game entertainment.
these last couple weeks have shown that you need to win when the chance is there. the indians were 1 game away from the series last yr and the favorite along with the tigers (the best team ever assembled) and look what happened. after a great 06 the twins stunk last yr. win when you can the breaks may not go your way for long. with that said imo we need a rh bat at 3b and should try to trade for atkins or kouzmanoff, add some power and balance out a very lh hitting team.
it makes my heart warm and fuzzy to see the skipper get his little buddy in the game everyday at least until toby is ready to be called up.
anybody still think nicky won’t get a new contract for the next yr?
after another Punto meltdown this weekend I certainly hope he does not get another 2M a year contract who else would pay him that much? a NL team?
Overall, Punto has not done that bad since he has been back. Good defensive plays and some productive at-bats. Why do you hate Punto so much? As long as he continues to play ‘well’ he will remain at least on the bench as long as Gardy is in control. What does that mean for Tolbert when he is healthy? Lamb and Everett are gone next year so there could be room.
Keep Johan and Torii at any cost,
You can have them both as dinner guests as you watch the All-Star Game on television.
The Twins did keep Morneau, Nathan, Mauer and $215 million, so the FO decisions look pretty good in retrospect.
I’m not a big Gardy guy- but it seems to me he does a lot right- the team has been successful during his tenure- although many of us “analysis guys” cringe at some of his decisions and (particularly for me) his talent judgment this team is awfully fun to watch.
a couple of things:
1)Gardy loves PUNTO too much not to make him a mostly regular starter
2)this team can’t afford to keep a “bench player with late game defensive specialist skills” for 2M when they already have youngsters like Macri/Tolbert etc for peanuts
3)PUNTO represents the TWINS backwards cheap drafting of hitters - no power, not a great hitter, decent speed, DEF can make as starter for cheap money
Excellent post mr. sink–you highlight something that hasn’t been talked about much–for the first time since this team started contending a few seasons back they actually have a really valuable and useful mix of seasoned vets, productive talented young guys and stars. In other words: depth. You touch well on the attributes of all–basically (along with the hardest working coaching staff in baseball) every guy is doing exactly what he’s supposed to so far. There’s no dead wood here and I get the sense that the manager enjoys the options and may even be learning some about the art and science of the matchup game which will be very useful in the postseason.
One other thing–I really like what Young has done for this team so far. Sure, some bumps in the road defensively but he’s learning–his mistakes are more mental not physical but he made it to the majors pretty quick in an organization not exactly known for teaching and emphasizing the fundamentals. Offensively, he’s becoming the reliable and dangerous right handed power bat the twins always have a need for. And he hits when it counts.
FV&G:
Punto has hit well since his return from the DL. Including a homer (and yes I didn’t notice it feeling a bit colder afterwards) and a very much clutch base-clearing DBL and an RBI hit during yesterday’s rally.
Like I’ve said before, Punto seems to be the only player for the Twins that actually is hated more the better he plays.
I didn’t get a chance to peruse the comments following the 12-3 thumping on Friday night. But I’m curious just how angry everybody was that Punto put together a 2 for whatever (Dinger + 3RBI DBL) night.
I picture much tearing of clothes and gnashing of teeth.
I have said in the past that I wasn’t a fan of Gardy using Punto more than once a week. But I can’t argue with what Nicky’s done with his ABs.
It’s just like I was disappointed to see Monroe getting the start the other day against the Tiggers, and he promptly deposited the ball over the fence for a 3R-HR.
I don’t like seeing Buscher’s starts being limited (I always feel benching a guy because he “hasn’t leraned to hit L/RHPs” is sorta defeating the purpose), but I can’t argue with winning.
I DON’T want Punto to ever smell a regular starting role with this team again. But if he can continue to produce in spot starts, I could live with it through the end of this year.
But hey, maybe Nicky’s putting together a good resume for trade once Tolbert’s ready…mmm?
That could be a behind the scenes motive for putting different lineups together right now. You’ve got guys like Span (and even Punto) holding hot bats. So find ways to get them in the lineup while they’re hot so that you can advertise them for potential suitors.
FIRE,
“1)Gardy loves PUNTO too much not to make him a mostly regular starter
2)this team can’t afford to keep a “bench player with late game defensive specialist skills” for 2M”
You got it!
Gardy will make Punto the full-time SS and that solves problem #2. (for Gardy)
I sat through the ugly 3-game sweep at Jacobs Field last August. It’s the only time I’ve ever been heckled by an usher in another team’s ballpark. The Indians are a bunch of jackasses, their fans are worse, and I don’t feel bad for them at all.
GoGo is #1 in range factor by a pretty wide margin too. The general public seems to measure defense by “number of Web Gems” - I’m not sure if anyone tracks that stat, but Gomez has to be doing pretty well there too.
Gee Peter,
Don’t you have any opinions about Punto?
C’mon, people. No, I’m not looking to restrict discussion/debate/whatever — just trying to keep from reading the same stuff for the 1,001st time.
T we agree Punto should be a part-time player as I have always advocated.. Gardy just needs to be saved from himself and his mancrush on PUNTO.. if Punto can be useful in spot duty I don’t think anyone thinks that is a bad thing
Does anyone know why the ZR for Jacoby Ellsbury is not listed in CF or LF?
Is it because he has had too few chances in either position?
sane you hit the nail on the head. nicky will be the everyday ss imo. gardy has said over and over how he loves his defense and has shown he wants him to play every day. i see him as a good utility guy who does well in that role but has shown he does not do well playing every day (long term).
at this point harris is the utility guy and we have 1 to many lh hitting 3b. everetts contract is easy to eat but lambs is not and that rules out finding a good rh 3b to add.
casey blake may be a good add but at what cost and who goes?
sane you really think Gardy would bench Harris? all i keep hearing is that Harris is terrible defensively? so how could Harris be useful as a late game defensive specialist? honestly who do folks want at SS Harris/PUNTO/ or Casilla with ? at 2nd
FIRE,
“Punto can be useful in spot duty I don’t think anyone thinks that is a bad thing”
There are posters in blogland that think Punto in a baseball uniform is a bad thing.
I am not one of them.
The only problem I have had with Nick Punto’s return from the DL is the fact that Harris is playing third instead of Buscher. Buscher’s bat was to hot to sit him. Punto has made some spectacular fielding plays and has had some clutch hitting with runners in scoring position, although I think it might be wise to start Harris at SS then put Punto in later in the game for his defense if the Twins have the lead. Keep Buscher playing 3rd though.
Howard as an official scorer(though former I recall) what are your thoughts on Harris’s range? what about PUNTO’s def? overrated due to web gems that hide some boneheaded errors or is PUNTO truly incredible defensively?
FIRE,
“sane you really think Gardy would bench Harris? all i keep hearing is that Harris is terrible defensively? so how could Harris be useful as a late game defensive specialist?”
Gardy would play Harris at 3B as a late game defensive specialist for Buscher.
He will also platoon with Buscher at 3B against LHP’s.
The unanswered question (as of now) is the SS rotation (if there is a rotation).
sane,
On the ZR question about Ellsbury. Click on the link in the post and then click on “unqualified,” which lists fielders with fewer games/innings played. You’ll find him well down the list near Lastings Milledge.
Gee Peter,
Don’t you have any opinions about Punto?
I talked to him at TwinsFest once and he was a really nice guy.
sane there is no rotation unless gardy has a big change in his thinking. seems like everything he has done lately has worked so nicky may well hit .300 the rest of the yr. and those of us that think he is a utility guy will look stupid, which i’m used to by the way.
I know this isn’t Punto-related, sorry, but what is A-Rod thinking? Mrs. Rod is divorcing him and it’s gonna cost him $100 million! He’s gonna leave her for 50 year old Madonna. She’ll be Mad-Rod I guess. But the former Mrs.Rod is seeing Lenny Kravitz, who is the son of some movie star, but can’t sing as good as Madonna and isn’t 50.
This is the worst trade since Babe Ruth for………….whoever.
You were in the UP this weekend Howard? Damn, you could have watched the game at my house, Puntos HR had to be seen to be believed.
Mudcat,
“This is the worst trade since Babe Ruth for………….whoever.”
FYI,
That was Babe Ruth for “No,No Nanette”
I can’t find any stats for Nanette!
great post Howard. One of the best in a long time from any of the strib guys no offense to LaVelle or Joe.
Howard,
Thanks for the info.
If ZR has any validity, it appears that choosing Gomez over Ellsbury was a slam-dunk defensively.
gobble,
“so nicky may well hit .300 the rest of the yr. and those of us that think he is a utility guy will look stupid, which i’m used to by the way.”
If Nicky hits .300 for the year, I will volunteer to take your place in the stupid line, whenever you need a break!
Howard,
What do you think the Twins SHOULD do when Cuddy comes off the DL?
I would argue that Cuddy would rank 4th on the list of current OF’s who should be playing. Is there any chance he doesn’t start when he comes back? Maybe a R/L platoon with Kubel as the DH?
sane what happens when cuddy comes back and what do they do with boof when frankie comes up?
SANE:
I don’t have time to Google Nanette, but I’m thinking he (she?) was a hard throwing southpaw famous for a no hit no run shutout. Thus the name No-No.
But I could be all wet.
The whole A-Rod thing is completely stupid. As somebody on the radio pointed out…A-Rod’s wife stuck with him after he was caught with a stripper.
But now that it’s Madonna things are over?
Boy…just goes to show you were Madonna ranks on society’s totem pole these days.
Cuddy picked a bad time to go on the DL (though it could be a blessing if Span continues to produce)
The two injury trips this year could hurt Cuddy’s trade value, but Span stepping it up lately could make him very attractive to a team looking for OF.
I wish I could give proper credit, but somebody here (who’s name escapes me) put together an excellent breakdown on why Span would be the perfect fit for the Padres as part of something to get Kouzmanoff over.
I’ve put together a similiar break down in the past with Cuddy (or even Kubel…though I’m less inclined to deal him now) to the Rox for Atkins.
The recent reports seem to be hurting the chances of my suggestion working out (Rox don’t appear as high on Stewart at the moment, and Holiday’s name isn’t in trade talks as rabidly as they were earlier this year).
I think the risk/reward with Span/Kouz is a better fit than Cuddy/Atkins (especially if you consider the potential intangibles that dealing a clubhouse guy like Cuddy in the middle of a playoff race could bring)
Span may have turned it around, but there’s still risk that he could regress or find himself unable to adjust once pitchers start to hear about him.
Twins know what they have with Cuddy, and can better structure the roster/lineup with that knowledge. In the middle of a playoff hunt, the devil you know may prove more beneficial than the devil you don’t.
Trading Cuddy would cause an even worse drop in morale than Castillos trade last summer. Even tho they like Span, the guys would see that any trade with him would be for the benefit of the team.
T:
You’re right on, on all points. Madonna’s just a material girl. And I don’t think she’s like a virgin at all.
But I’m afraid we won’t be able to count on Cuddyer much this year. After all, Joe Morgan said we don’t realize how much a hitter’s hands mean to him.
(brother!)
gobble,
“sane what happens when cuddy comes back and what do they do with boof when frankie comes up?”
I think the lowest pitcher on the totem pole at the time should go when Cuddyer and then again when Liriano returns.
Thoughts on the Cuddyer return:
When Cuddyer comes back, Span makes a fine 4th outfielder/sometimes starter.
Cuddyer makes a fine RF and emergency third baseman (behind Buscher, Harris, Punto.)
Lamb’s contract gets swallowed or the Twins try to go with 11 pitchers.
Or someone else gets hurt and we revisit all of the options.
While Howard didn’t mention the “Luck” thing. I think it is great IF one’s opponent thinks/believes you are “lucky”. It allows them to underestimate/disrespect your abilities to their detriment.
There’s also a maxim “Good teams cause their own luck.”
Regards,
mudcat,
“I don’t have time to Google Nanette, but I’m thinking he (she?) was a hard throwing southpaw famous for a no hit no run shutout. Thus the name No-No.”
I think you broke the case, Detective!
While I would like to see the pitching staff trimmed by one when Cuddyer returns, I don’t think that’s likely, unless it’s done via a trade.
When Cuddyer comes back, Span will go back to Rochester. But that will just be temporary. Next roster spot that opens, he’ll be back up and he’ll certainly be with the Twins after Sept 1.
Liriano won’t be coming up to the Bigs unless/until one of the current rotation blows up. There won’t be changes made as long as those 5 pitchers are producing at current levels. I don’t see the Twins trading Livan as long as he’s doing what they brought him in to do. I also see no reason to bring Liriano up only to work out of the bullpen. He’s better off getting regular starts in Rochester. He lost his spot in the rotation through lack of performance. He won’t get it handed back to him again until someone currently ahead of him falters or gets injured.
Howard,
“Cuddyer makes a fine RF and emergency third baseman (behind Buscher, Harris, Punto.)
Thats one hell of an emergency that incapacitates three 3B. The Twins need to keep those four guys apart!
As for Cuddyer and Span, I think Span would provide quite a bit of value off the bench in late innings as a pinch-runner/defensive replacement for DY. They need to keep him around, even if he “gets rusty” not playing every day. I agree with previous posters about dumping their 12th pitcher, which is probably Bass - again, Bonser is too highly thought of in the organization for some reason - they should trade him if a team is willing to take him, but then they’d have to stop running that funny commercial with the pitching staff singing Ode to Joy.
Whatever Punto lacks in offensive skills this year, he is a fine shortsop/infielder, and most contending teams have an upper-end defensive infielder with lower-end offensive skills.
all 3 3B attempt to adjust the “swivel” on their hotel TV and cut themselves!!! FYI - happened to Bartlet I believe a few years ago..
I’m also going to go on record predicting Cuddyer does not get activated immediately after the All Star break, unless the Twins have a roster spot opened up by another injury or a trade. As long as things are going well with Span, I think Cuddyer’s finger is going to remain “sore”. Expect to hear things like, “we’re going to give Cuddy all the time he needs to get that finger completely healthy.” Then, miraculously, the finger gets completely healthy exactly the same time someone else gets banged up a bit or one of the starting OFs goes a week without getting a hit.
Y’all haters oughta man-up and admit that you were wrong about Punto, and that he can contribute to a winning baseball team. Watching his detractors double down on the angsty hatred everytime he performs well (all the damn time, of late) is growing tedious. Comes a time when you gotta admit, if only to yourselves: this ain’t Lew Ford.
There is no way Cuddy will sit on the bench when he gets healthy. Not only is he a right handed bat with *a little* pop, but he’s an important part of this team’s chemistry. I know some will scoff, but the chemistry, or the intangibles as the venerable Mr. Sinker says, has played a huge part in the team’s recent success. Yeah I know, Cuddy has been injured for most of it, but the fact that he’s there is important.
If anything, we should trade Span while his stock is high. Package him and Buscher with a minor league pitcher or two and we could get a solid, everyday 3B like Beltre.
While Span is in the lineup he should play LF and DY should be in RF. It’s his natural position and his arm would be a huge upgrade over Span’s. Cuddyer can have RF back when he returns to the lineup, but for now it doesn’t make any sense to not maximize the talent of our players. DY’s arm is wasted in LF and as we’ve all seen, he’s not the most comfortable out there.
And for the record, I think we should keep Span and try to deal Cuddyer. I just don’t think that will happen.
“What, they didn’t make it?
As TK would say, “Aw, that’s a shame.”
Thanks for that, Howard. Brilliant post today.
Good day all:
Great thoughts today. And why not. Twins are +12. Pinch me!
“T”–the Span/Kazmanouf piece was mine a day or so ago…thanks for the love! I wrote something somebody else loved. I feel great!
Kaz would be a good fit. SD would want youth and potential, so Span fits the bill, and probably a pitcher at AA or even AAA to make it work. Ultimately, Twins mgmt will have to decide on Lamb. Personally, I think they need to swallow hard and let him go. If they can find a trade partner, maybe eat 1/2 the salary or something, fine, but that’s doubtful. They need to solidify 3b if they want to stay in this thing, and by this trade, they would do that, and also solidify SS, where Harris/Punto can fill in nicely.
And besides, the Kaz trade still gives us the potential for Boof and Oof together…..what a great day that will be for Gordo and Dazzleman.
Folks, have a great day, be well. I have to go back to work. Peace.
JimCrikket,
Good post regarding Liriano and Twins starting pitchers. Theirs no need for adjustments at this point.
On the subject of adding somebody at the trading deadline. Although the Twins may not need to make any trades, here is my two cents.I suggest they trade for Brian Roberts.
Baltimore was interested in moving him at the beginning of the year, and since they are 11 games out of it, I don’t see why they would not be willing to trade him now.
Casilla can be moved to SS. Harris and Busher can platoon at 3B (if Harris is not involved in the trade).Punto is the utility infielder.
He has a 1 1/2 years left on his contract and IMO this should not be considered a team waiting to make a run in 2010.Therefore, Roberts could help them continue their run NOW.
Trading Cuddy would cause an even worse drop in morale than Castillos trade last summer.
The big blow to team morale from the Castillo trade wasn’t that Castillo was dealt, it was that the Twins didn’t make an effort to get anything that would immediately help the team (or ever for that matter).
If Cuddyer was dealt, there would be some fan backlash (I would imagine the term “Cheapskate” would be the focal point).
However, I feel that if immediate help was brought in (IE, a guy who will be in the everyday lineup) the more important blow (team morale) would be relatively small, if there even was one.
Especially when you’ve got Gomez and Casilla as sparkplugs (did you see them in the dugout yesterday?)
But if they deal Cuddy for nothing more than prospects, then yes…there would be some backlash. Especially in the midst of a playoff hunt.
The guys like Cuddy, but they also understand the Front Office has a job to do, and that’s win.
Great job, Howard. You are right, it is hard not to feel for Cleveland. I read the letter their owner, Larry Dolan, sent to fans regarding the CC deal. As a Twins fan, I don’t think this trade was all that good. It doesn’t help us this year, as the Tribe are too far out to compete. Next year, though, and the year after, LaPorta will be tearing us apart. You heard it here first. 
Glad to have you back, Howard!
AMEN, Clerihew. Give the Punto bashing a break, will you? ESPECIALLY Mr. “FIRE VAVRA & GARDY!!!!” (by the way, where would the Twins be now if they had fired those 2?) Maybe it’s time for a new name.
Here’s constructive advice for the Punto bashers - re-direct your energy to Lamb (and Everett). If they’re both gone, we can talk more about Nicky being the bottom of the totem pole, ok?
T, does Cuddy being the union rep increase his chances of being traded, or is that management-union thing passe? Can a club thrive without a magician? I’d worry about losing a decent RH bat (unless we got a better one in trade).
WHAT HAPPENS WHEN….. what happens when Tolbert, Everett and Cuddyer are all healthy? Can you really send down Span or Buscher? And what about Macri now tearing it up in AAA? It’s a nice predicament to be in, but it is a predicament…………….. Will the Twins have to release Lamb and/or Everett? Will they send hot-hitting (and win streak contributing) players like Bushcher and/or Span to AAA? What to do? What to do?
Kevin in Dallas - I started with this moniker and need to keep it for identification purposes.. how are the Rangers and Astros doing?
Nice to see the Punto love which Gardy has always had. He understands how great a player Nick is and how important he is to this team winning. They struggled without him and need to give him a contract extension so we will see him playing every day when the new stadium opens.
Well, to his credit, Fire did drop Punto from his moniker.
Who is this Michael Cuddyer people keep talking about?
Just a quick two cents…(better than my usual 2 dollars)…
Twins fans are on Cloud Nine as the NL dominance has, contrary to the beliefs of many fans, carried over to the AL Central.
One thing that bothers me is the lack of national love the Twins are getting…hopefully that will change tonight when the Twins take on Boston on ESPN (where I believe the Twins are undefeated when on ESPN this year). Sportscenter today focused on the Yanks / Red Sox, the Tampa Bay Rays (who I have to admit I’m getting a little tired of hearing about–it’s still way too EARLY), and the C.C. trade.
As for our club…again, kudos must go out to Ron Gardenhire. All the angst of April and May and here we are right where we have been pretty much all decade, and our manager has been the catalyst. Kubel had to sit a couple days over the weekend–which I know infuriates many of you–but again, Gardy does it his way and his way has worked for the most part.
As for Nick Punto…it’s a stay of execution, folks. Sooner or later, he must return to the bench.
It was really fun to see Papelbon and his ugly tight-lipped stare get beat last night…now it’s our turn to beat the ugliest team in baseball.
yep Me Too I did that awhile ago when Nicky went on the DL.. the current moniker still sufices for identifying.
imo cuddy isn’t going anywhere. tolbert stays at aaa until sept 1, everett gets dfa or traded for a “later”, lamb gets traded or dfa to give cuddy a spot. span is more valuable now than lamb, of course this could change if somebody gets hurt or a young guy tanks.
does anyone else have a real problem with varitek making the all star team hitting .220?
Interesting with all the complaining that if you look, there are only five catchers with more games or innings than Mauer. Looks like other catchers get just as many days off.
“As for Nick Punto…it’s a stay of execution, folks. Sooner or later, he must return to the bench.”
I remember thinking that last year.
Columbo-
“On the subject of adding somebody at the trading deadline. Although the Twins may not need to make any trades, here is my two cents.I suggest they trade for Brian Roberts.”
The reason that trade with the Cubs didn’t go down is because the O’s were asking for a lot. We don’t have the prospects to deal for Roberts and while he’s a good player, our middle infield is crowded enough. I think 3B is our greates need and Beltre/Kouz/Atkins would all be significant upgrades. I wouldn’t complain if we got Roberts though.
In my opinion (you know, one that isn’t worth squat) the Twins aren’t going to do any moves at the deadline. Maybe will afterwords, but not before.
They have a spot that needs work at third, but as we all can see, they have alot of options to keep the hot bat in there. This team this year isn’t lacking for bench-options, and this is a VERY good thing. Can’t remember the last time they had power actually riding the pine.
Since the Twins are supposedly in a rebuilding phase, I find it highly doubtful that they do anything to bring in a rent-a-player. Only thing I can see is if they do another Garza style trade and trade pitching for another player under team control for several years. Sadly, there aren’t too many Garza’s left in the system to trade for a good , longterm bat.
for everyone missing Jason Bartlett his fielding % is .967 Harris’s is .983 which is better then little nicky’s .979 Harris has 4 HRs to zip for Bartlett Harris has 25 RBI Bartlett has 20 I don’t think Twins lost out trading Bartlett for Harris
gobble, I really don’t see Lamb getting DFA’d to make room for Cuddyer. I know defending Lamb is about as popular around here as defending Punto, but I just don’t see him going anywhere this season and I’m fine with keeping him.
It’s funny how quick we are to say that a guy who’s performing better than his career stats would indicate will eventually fall back to something near those career levels, but when a guy starts out well below levels his career stats indicate he should have, he’s a bum and should be disposed of without regard to cost. Sometimes, teams are a bit hasty about that kind of thing (see: Padres re Jim Edmonds). Right now, the Twins don’t need Lamb much and that’s fine. I hope they can contend the rest of the season without having to rely on him. But I suspect if they release him, they’ll end up wishing they hadn’t.
As for Veritek, it’s interesting that he made the AS game as the backup catcher based on player voting, getting significantly more support from his peers than AJ, who clearly has had a superior season and is more deserving of a spot. Pretty clear indication of what his peers think of AJ, don’t you think?
contrary to the beliefs of many fans
Please don’t confuse “many” with “the vocal majority” 
Fire, that simply isn’t true. The Twins screwed up royally by trading Barlett away. Surely you don’t have an opinion that differs from some of the experts on this list, do you???
Bartlett has showed the Rays how to win, and if he was here, he would be showing the Twins how to win too, instead of this disasterous year we have been forced to watch because of the horrendous offseason trades that our worthless front-office bungled.
Yup, Jason, no love for the twinkies. Best kept secret in baseball.
Which is fine by me, we’re winning games and we got the first place Whitie Tighties right where we want them.
Patrick,
I agree with your assesment that the Cubs thought the O’s wanted too much.But, as the clock is ticking on his contract, the asking price should come down. I think the Twins should atleast make an attempt.
The middle infield would be set…no more rotating players.I think we can get by at third base with what we have
…just my opinion.
yep call me a contrarian!! LOL
I’m pleased as hell about the Twins being where they are a week before the break. I knew there was something special about this team from the get-go this spring. Sure, I was hoping that Liriano wold return, if not to superstar form, at least passable. And he may yet before long. Sounds like things are going better for him in AAA.
Twins as American league champs? I think so. They better, cuz I’m getting 70-1 odds for them to win the Series this year!
Money where my mouth is, and all that.
“I dare anyone to say that both don’t have a place in the team’s success.”
I’ll dare to say it! Baseball is all hype; There has to be a winner and a loser and I have better things to do with my time than see if the coin lands heads up or heads down.
The next couple of weeks are going to tell us (and the front office) a lot about the Twins’ chances.
I don’t favor having the Twins trade anyone that they have a reasonable expectation to contribute either this year or the next couple of years, but at the same time, no matter how good you feel about your future, if you’ve got a legit shot at post-season play in any given year, it only makes sense to make a deal that will improve your chances. (You absolutely KNOW the WhiteSox will be looking to add someone.)
The new “currency” in MLB is clearly youth. The Twins certainly have it and there are clearly guys on their 40-man roster and down in Rochester that you can not legitimately imagine breaking in to the line up any time soon. Pridie, Ruiz, McDonald, Humber, Mulvey, Cali, Daigle, Mariano Gomez… how many of them do you really project playing key roles with the Twins? Some of them are having decent years, some aren’t. But I’d have to bet there’s a market for them somewhere out there. It’s worth exploring, IF the Twins stay in contention heading in to the last week of July.
I would love to see Tolbert, Span and Maci on our bench. Those three can back up any position on the field and we would not miss a beat.
Howard,
Good post. Like you, if I were GM I’d swallow Lamb’s contract. But I don’t see them just giving up on that investment. If they could get a low-level minor leaguer, OK, but to just swallow the contract, while it would be nice, seems unlikely.
Smith is going to have to make some tough decisions though with Tolbert, Cuddy and Everett to come back eventually.
And in the outfield. All of a sudden the Twins have depth. Monroe/Kubel/Young/GoGo/Span/Cuddyer and then Pridie in the minors.
I think they should package either Pridie or Span and a couple other prospects for a veteran right-handed 3rd baseman or a good set up guy.
MIKE:
What do you think of a Twins/Devil Rays ALCS?
THAT would be sumpthin’, huh?
I keep reading here how people think there’s going to be some big decision to be made when Tolbert becomes healthy. Someone needs to explain the big deal to me, I guess.
My recollection is that he was doing well… but he was no savior at 3B. He was simply doing better there than Lamb had been doing. He was hitting .265 with almost no power.
There are going to be decisions to be made, certainly, but to me the decision with Tolbert is a no-brainer. He goes to Rochester and if he does well, maybe comes up when rosters expand in September (or earlier if we see that catastrophic rash of injuries to all of the Twins’ 3Bs that was discussed earlier in the thread).
if Twins took division right now they would play Rays in ALDS since presumably Red Sox get WC they can’t play Rays in ALDS
FIRE:
The key word is “presumably”.
THAT would be sumpthin’, huh?
I think Tolbert is the Twins future 2B,With Casilla at SS and Buscher if he can improve his D at 3b. Tolbert will be on the team as soon as he is healthy.
JC: With Tolbert, I think the train there was that he would basically be Punto for less money. Flexibility in the infield + a modest bat in spot starts or late inning duty.
Nothing to write home about, but has more potential than Punto at this point.
Now that Punto’s bat is heating up (odd eh?), Tolbert’s best home is AAA where he can continue to pad his numbers and look good in a trade.
You made an excellent point in your second to last post. The Twins have some great young talent in their system…but how many of them are going to breakthrough any time soon.
And if guys like Gomez, Young, Harris, Buscher, and Casilla are going to fill roles over the long haul, it may be a good time to make a few gutsy trades with the youth and strengthen those last few holes.
The farm club may take a bit of a hit for now, but if guys stay healthy then you’ve got talent a little further back that would be ready in a year or so to fill up the holes left.
Trade, but trade smart. No sense giving up a bunch of guys on a whim (See Train, D- and Cabrera, Miguel)
I really enjoy reading all of the posts in here. One thing most have to admit, is as Twins fans we love to watch the team. I would love watching this team if they were -12, bonus that they are +12 in the rebuilding years. I can’t wait to see what the flexibility does in trades the next couple of years. The lineup in the new stadium could be even better than we thought.
I think the last comment about Casey Blake is the right one. Blake would be a perfect 1b/3b fit, add power and he’s a good clubhouse guy. He can be had cheap because Cleveland will want to see if Marte is good enough for them long term.
It’s pretty rare that you would see a trade between division rivals like Minn and Cleveland. Not impossible, but unlikely, imo. Not so much that the Tribe would care whether they made a deal that improved the Twins’ chances this year, but rather I think the Twins would hesitate to turn over decent prospects to Cleveland that we’d turn around and have to compete against for years to come, potentially.
The Indians did everything right by small-market standards and, after a series of tough breaks, are officially in the tank a year after just missing the Series. It demonstrates how quickly things can change, even for a franchise that has successfully committed itself to all those long-range survival strategies we hear so much about around here.
I hope at the All-Star Game Joe Mauer can do his part to help patch things up between Lee and Gomez. Life is too short to have those two a fightin’ an’ feudin’ all the dang time.
Gomez can’t let things like what Lee said get to him that way. The best way to handle that kind of thing is laugh about it. He was clearly still upset an inning or two later… perhaps even all the way through the game. That tells opponents that they can get in to HIS head instead of the bunting getting in to the head of the pitcher. Look for more opposing pitchers to try to goad Gomez into similar reactions in the future, unless/until he proves it won’t have that kind of emotional effect on him.
Anyone notice Juan Rincon is 0-1 with an 8.10 ERA and 3.30 WHIP for Buffalo. Teammate Jason Tyner is hitting .222 with 13 RBI.
Why is Youkilis starting? Morneau beats him in EVERY category. The NE fans went nuts this year and voted as if they had nothing else to do.
SoCal:
Watch ESPN tonight. Twins/Red Sox. That Ukelele guy sometimes is a Twin Killer. Maybe Morny will school him tonight.
Youkilis beats morneau in avg, obp, slg, homeruns. I don’t have a problem with him starting.
Will do - love it that games start at 4pm or 5pm here, as I work from home. I am fed up with East (least) coast mumble jumble / blah, blah, blah (diarrhea) and would LOVE to see the Twins show ‘em!!
avg? not so fast! How about fielding? Youky is many eons behind Morneau and will NEVER win a MVP - Morneau will probably win one more.
youks is batting .311. morny is batting .307. They both play a pretty mean first base.
JimCrikket,
“The best way to handle that kind of thing is laugh about it.”
Another way to handle it.
Gardy should say publicly “that the bunting is MY decision and Gomez is following instructions.
Anybody who has a problem with that, come see ME!”
Youkilis is 34 ABs, 9 hits, 12 RBIs, 2 walks behind and Morneau edges Youkilis in fielding (kicks his butt in DPs)
I actually have less of an issue with Youkilis getting the start than I do Jeter. He’s not even close to being the most deserving shortstop in the AL this season. I’d also take issue with 2/3 of the AL outfield. Neither Ramirez nor Ichiro deserve to be starting. IMO, the NL fans did a much better job of voting their best players in to the starting line up. If the NL wins the ASG and thus home field advantage for their league for the WS, the American League will only have its fans to blame.
Morneau overall wins out, so (again) why would Youkilis “earn” a starting spot over Morneau, pray tell?
I disagree. I think youkilis is every bit as good as morneau at first, if not better. He can also play third pretty well.
The way Gomez needs to handle it is to tell Lee to F off. Telling a burner like Go-Go who can lay down a bunt is ridiculous and should be treated as such. Bunting is part of the game, just like walking in the tying run. Another way for Go-Go to handle it is to go out and get the game winning hit… wait, he did that. (and by hit I mean ground out. Close enough)
Youkilis had a record errorless streak at 1B that just recently ended. He also play gold glove calibur D at 3B. Don’t get me wrong, Morneau is the better player and will have better numbers at the end of the year, but Youk deserves to start.
Hey! Lay off the crapulous comments about Nick Punto. SO WHAT if he was PO’d a couple of times in one game–geez, after what he went through last year (with professionalism, I might add, & no whining)–and the marvelous comeback he’s having this year, I think you should show a bit more discernment in your comments. He’s a defensive god, and deserves your respect. Yeah, sure–I’m a big fan of his; but I admire his tenaciousness and professionalism. Wish there was more of it around the AL. Some people will gripe about the most silly things. Its a “grow up and act like a professional writer” time. And lay off Nicky, all of you scoffers. I say NYAAAAAH to you all. Yeah, that’s me being unprofessional. Too bad. ‘Nuff said.
Patrick,
Gardy’s publicly taking responsibility might save Gomez a beaning, warnings, ejections, brawls and suspensions.
If a manager is supposed to “protect his players”, then Gardy should man up and take responsibility for his bunt calls, instead of getting in an umpire’s face and flapping his wings like a wounded vulture.
“so (again) why would Youkilis “earn” a starting spot over Morneau, pray tell?”
Er… by playing better? By putting up better numbers over the first half of the season?
Look, the East Coast fan base juggernaut voted in players who don’t deserve to play (Jeter and Varitek anybody?) but Youkilis isn’t one of them. He deserves to start.
There may be some debate about this but the Twins are only six games above .500 not 12 like the article contends. A .500 record would be 44-44 through 88 games. The Twins are 50-38 which is six games above that record. Twins Rule!
Yeah, but Gardy getting his player’s backs and Gardy fighting their battles for them aren’t the same thing. I don’t think him saying publicly that he decides when Gomez bunts would be effective or accurate. Especially when Gomez is batting with 2 strikes. Gardy wouldn’t make that call and Lee knows it.
I hear what you’re saying, Sane, but I don’t necessarily agree. Doesn’t mean you aren’t right though. 
Varitek was voted in by the players, not the fans. Jeter obviously shouldn’t be starting, but I would say pedroia over ian kinsler is probably the biggest fan voting error.
Dain-
A .500 record would be 38-38. The Twinks are 50-38, 12 games above .500.
Patrick,
“The way Gomez needs to handle it is to tell Lee to F off.”
My Spanglish lip-reading is not precise, but I believe Gomez already covered that ground.
Sorry, “bunting with 2 strikes” not “batting with 2 strikes”.
“Patrick,
“The way Gomez needs to handle it is to tell Lee to F off.”
My Spanglish lip-reading is not precise, but I believe Gomez already covered that ground.”
Heh, good point.
Punto will likely still be a Twin when the new stadium opens. In Twins history, only Cesar Tovar was a better utility player, and he also had years when he took over an “everyday job” for one reason or another.
dain they are 12 games over .500
they could lose the next 12 games and they would be 50-50.
the nl has better voting with more accurate winners because the fans aren’t fed a steady red sox/yankee diet on every possible tv outlet (espn and fox especially). the nl doesn’t get the time on air like the rest of the al. it is a 2 team major league with 30 minor plus teams hanging around for fun.
Sane,
I don’t think Gomez knows any “bad words”, like the one that Lee said to him. He is too nice a kid to say anything like that. But, he be very mad. If he can channel his anger, that will be ok. Or, if like yesterday, the team can channel it, then we are ok. And, the day before Gomez ran so fast from 1st after getting plunked, that he nearly caught Span at home. Good times.
Did you see the brief scene with Casilla and Gomez sitting in their apartment/home eating and laughing. Casilla says he always gets a #1. Gomez likes the #7. Casilla says he orders the #1 because he doesn’t know how to say #7. Good stuff from these kids.
“In Twins history, only Cesar Tovar was a better utility player”
Apparently someone forgot about Denny Hocking. I kid, I kid.
And the problem here is that Punto isn’t used as a utility player. He’s used as a starting player. Yes, he’s had some good at-bats recently and he’s made some good defensive plays, but still… He shouldn’t start consistently for a team in a race.
Cuddy should be packaged and traded…if we weren’t in playoff contention!!
Span will just have to take his weak ass back to the minors!!His speed doesn’t trump cuddy’s power. especially on a team that doesn’t have much power!!
Patrick,
“Gardy wouldn’t make that call and Lee knows it.”
If Gardy didn’t make the call or give Gomez general orders to bunt often and in random situations, then I am wrong and you are right. I am only asking Gardy to take responsibility when he IS, in fact, responsible.
If my lip-reading was accurate, Cliff Lee said “You don’t do that (crap) with me” meaning he was ready to field that bunt in the first inning. It was a pretty low-key comment in the heat of the battle, I thought, and Lee was quoted today that the whole thing was nothing. I think it’s a dead issue and Gardy didn’t/doesn’t need to do anything.
jake,
If that’s really all that Cliff Lee said, then Gomez needs to chill.
did the tigers pitcher ever get any heat from the league after leyland said they were throwing at mauer. i know pitchers have been suspended before for that.
When Cuddy returns: Span stays, Lamb gets shipped elsewhere (for someonething/anything), and the Twins’ outfield is 5 deep until someone gets hurt.
When I pitched and struck a batter out (not that often), I usually said (not that loud) to even close friends and relatives:
“AMF!”.
That meant “adios m-f-!”
No one took it personally, it was just competitive juices.
When a hitter ripped one off my forehead over the wall, I’m sure he enjoyed that, too.
Not a big deal.
I guess I can only speak to what was said on-camera. Didn’t see any effenheimers from Lee, but Go-Go had a couple for him after his infield hit the second time up. I’m sure more was said than what the TV-watcher saw.
Sane–Nice of you to refer to your strikeout victims as “my friend”!
jake,
“Nice of you to refer to your strikeout victims as “my friend”!”
Thats really what I meant!
When in Hawaii, I would substitute aloha m-f- for adios m-f-.
Still “AMF!”
In France, “Adieu!” In Germany, “Auf Weidersehen!”
Thanks, Jake.
I could have used that info when I was still pitching and travelling.
Gotta go now–AMF!
And AMF to you, buddy.
sane,
The “bad word” and the heat came not after the bunt. That was the start when Lee challenged him about it. But, Lee picked it up after Gomez got his IF hit and was stranded at 1st. Lee decided to “talk” to Gomez on the way off the field (and not while cameras were on). Who knows what he said, but my man Gomez says “he say bad word to me”, so I gotta go with Gomez.
No big deal probably, but just wanted to give you the rest of the story, as I saw and later read about it.
It may be partial a problem with translation. Maybe Gomez took issue with something that Lee said, but possibly because of the way he said it, not necessarily what was said.
The sad part is alot of these conversations aren’t caught on tape, so there is alot of speculation about what was said, or not said.
I’ll take Gomez at his word, I just hope he learns not to let what others say effect him. I still remember when the umpire said something and he had a terrible day.
