Good baseball trumps bad result
Posted on July 8th, 2008 – 7:52 AMBy Howard
You can pick at some of what went wrong for the Twins, most notably Delmon Young’s two first-pitch ground outs with the bases loaded in the first and eighth innings and the choice of Brian Bass to take over in the eighth instead of Crain or Guerrier. But facts are that Delmon has been hitting the ball well lately and Bass had put only 10 runners on base (giving up one earned run) in his previous 12 innings.
The former makes me wonder how well Delmon be hitting if showed a bit more patience at the plate and the latter, to me, constitutes enough of a sample size to have considered Bass to be on top of his game. (You know, sometimes I wonder how we managed to cover baseball back in the day before we had “sample sizes” to dissect and statistical acronyms the length of surnames.)
Sometimes you just lose.
For all of his struggles with control, Dice-K didn’t get to be 10-1 by throwing poop. And he caught breaks when Buscher lined into an unassisted double play in the seventh — Delmon had no chance to get back — right before Punto crushed a triple that would have been a homer elsewhere.
Denard Span continued to make a solid case for his future with two excellent plays in right field and Scott Baker manned up when he needed to.
For me, it was one of those games where I was simply glad to be able to sit back and watch it — muttering and sputtering and talking back to Dick’n'Bert and hoping for hits that didn’t come. A good night to be a baseball fan.
The only thing that’s making me feel a bit weird right now is that I’m actually feeling bad for AJ Pierzynski, who got left off the All-Star team despite a solid first half in favor of the Red Sox catcher, Jason Varitek and his .215 average. I don’t think it would be a bad idea for Varitek to step aside and let the more deserving player have that spot — even if it is AJ.
other people are here too
68 Responses to "Good baseball trumps bad result"
Howard. Its too early to rehash this. Its not even 9 CT. . .
AJ Pierzynski doesn’t even feel bad for himself. He likes Tek more too.
Come on Howard E
Even you had to be yelling at the TV when the Twins decided to put Bass in. Another case where Gardy and Anderson try to outthink the opponent and end up outthinking themselves.
I watched the ESPN guys…. much needed night off from Dick and Bert
jama,
With all due respect, I guess I was thinking back to last Monday when Crain/Reyes/Guerrier spit up that 3-run lead against Detroit. (I know it seems so long ago.)
I watched the ESPN guys too. Dick and Bert get old after a while and listening to non-homer insight by Phillips, Hersheiser was great.
Good game to watch, but not on ESPN. That network gives the feeling you are tuning in because the Red Sox are playing. Or the Yankees are playing. Sorry, I don’t watch their baseball for that. Dick and Bert are happy Twin’s fans tune in and you can feel it, and I like shameless homers.
The ESPN crew last night did just as much gushing about the Twins as they did Red Sox. It was a pretty even match. Nice to hear. And Peter Gammons was NOT present even though he is “Mr. Red Sox”.
Speaking of stepping down…I really hope that A-Rod just uses the ASG as a chance to step out of the limelight for a bit.
Because it’s going to be on FOX, and since they LOVE to talk about anything but baseball, I can fully imagine the first 5-6 innings next Tuesday to be all about the whole A-Rod, Madonna, Kravitz…thing.
ESPN commentary last night was pretty awful in spots. Early in the game they were saying that Gomez is a hacker and very strikeout prone, then they said Casilla is just like him. This is so offbase its funny. Then they mentioned that the Rays only have 1 allstar (arent Kazmir and Navarro both in?) Dick and Bert are by far the best duo in all of baseball. We are all lucky to have them as commentators. they are priceless.
Best duo in baseball? You probably haven’t listened to many others. Dick and Bert are ok, not great, not horrible, just ok, in my opinion. I don’t mind them but there are better ones. The Brewer guys are much better, in my opinion.
I do not like watching Twins games on ESPN. They tend to make rather un-insightful and sometimes flat out untrue comments about the Twins (you know, the 20 mins they actually spend talking about them) and it drives me nuts! It’s obvious that they don’t watch many Twins games, they just look at the box scores.
I love Dick’n’Bert! Ok, so maybe they are a bit repetitive, and perhaps they don’t blow you away with analysis, but they always have fun and always make me laugh.
Life is serious enough and I spend enough time analyzing things at work. When I get home at night and turn on the game, I want to be entertained. Dick’n’Bert do that for me, as does LaPanta’s “hair.” Just saying…
Plus, you never know when Bert will slip up again with the F-bomb (or bombs, as the case may be) again. 
I don’t fault Gardy for any of the moves last night…
I think it’s obvious that Gardy has more confidence in Bass than Crain at the moment. Crain had every opportunity to step up following Neshek’s injury and has failed to do so…now it’s true, he probably would’ve been better suited to handle the pressures of Fenway than Bass in that situation, but I just hope Bass learns from that experience and will get the job done next time around.
A lot of you will talk about pinch hitting for Kubel–honestly, I guess I could go either way on that…but it does go to show you that Gardy will do it his way (Kubel was benched Sat / Sun for Monroe as well and that seemed to work)…and on that note, I still think Gardy deserves a ton of credit for 50-39.
Walking Manny in the 8th? I thought about it at the time, but again, I was looking for him to strikeout. I guess if you’re a Twins fan you can point out what Gardy could’ve done, but the one thing you can’t change is what truly mattered–the fact that the Twins failed to drive in the go-ahead run multiple times throughout the game.
Is Buscher one bad game away from Mike Lamb re-emerging as the everday third baseman? Stay tuned, I guess…
As for Dick and Bert…Howard, you should’ve went with ESPN…it’s always nice to hear a national perspective. Although one thing I will say that gets old with Steve Phillips–we get it, you were a GM…you don’t have to play the “as GM I would do this…as GM I would think that…as GM I wanted this…” card every inning. Believe it or not, there’s nothing freakishly unusual or special about being a baseball exec…it’s not like you were blowing guys away with 98 mph heat.
I was up at the cabin and missed the game.
Did Baker look as good as his stats indicate?
JP, true, Dick and Bert can be entertaining and you are correct in that sometimes you just want to be entertained and listen to them without being inundated with over the top analysis. I agree with you there. Do you remember last year or the year before when LaPanta actually did play-by-play for a series? He did pretty good. Dick must have been on vacation or something. I know Coomer filled in for Bert when he was ’suspended’. He didn’t do too bad either.
The players voted in Varitek over AJ. What’s THAT tell you?! Players think more about just stats.
Well, look, if you want to throw reputation into the mix (or intangibles), how about Pudge? I know the guy is old…but he’s a perennial All-Star, a HOF’er, doesn’t have to wear a fake-hyped “C” on his uniform to authenticate his role as a leader….and, oh by the way, the guy’s hitting .290.
Mr. Overrated should take a vacation and let a real All-Star (Pudge) play in that game.
Tanderson… yes. I thought he looked fantastic, even if the ESPN speed gun seemed pretty generous to all the pitchers.
Howard, I’m not as anti-AJ as most people are but even I don’t feel sorry for him. It’s fine if you want to make a career out of being the antagonist… being the guy that deliberately rubs opponents the wrong way… tries to get in their heads. But there are consequences for making that choice and one of them is that your peers aren’t going to like you or even respect you very much. And they certainly aren’t going to vote you on to an All Star team if there’s someone else to vote for.
That said, I suspect if you gave the players who voted for Mauer another chance to vote since he got elected by the fans, Veritek would not get most of those votes. It just shows that even some players simply don’t give much thought to their votes.
The worst part about Manny getting that hit last night was that he was right there on page 1 of the Strib sports section this at 6:30 a.m. today. It’s almost enough to put one off one’s Cheerios.
What’s priceless is when Dick Bremer or John Gordon get so excited their voices crack on “the big play”! ! !
You just can’t get that anywhere else!
yes Mudcat, if by “the big play”, you mean a routine fly ball to center.
you mean Bremer’s call - “DEEPPPPP TO CENTER FIELD …. he’s under it for the out..”
Crikket…
Thanks much. With a young team like the Twins, I’m always looking for the silver lining. Seven shutout innings from Baker is a good sign, especially against Boston at Fenway.
A 1-0 defeat should be labeled a “Blyleven”.
I treasure every time Dick and Bert on the MLB Extra-Innings feed… I had the choice between ESPN and the Red Sox Network… Is that really a choice? Ummm… Death by hanging or a bullet to the head? Either way, you are dead. Not to put a damper on the discussion, but sometimes you just have to sit back and enjoy the game for what it is… Baseball. Enough said.
I completely agree with JimCrikket: ESPN’s gun was off. I don’t believe for a minute that Bass throws 96+ and that Crain was hitting 98; the readings were consistently 2 MPH higher than FSN’s (I flipped back and forth).
I completely agree with JimCrikket: ESPN’s gun was off. I don’t believe for a minute that Bass throws 96+ and that Crain was hitting 98; the readings were consistently 2 MPH higher than FSN’s (I flipped back and forth).
Although that certainly must make the Yanks feel special since Joba was hitting “100″ quite often Sunday night.
“A lot of you will talk about pinch hitting for Kubel–honestly, I guess I could go either way on that…but it does go to show you that Gardy will do it his way (Kubel was benched Sat / Sun for Monroe as well and that seemed to work)…and on that note, I still think Gardy deserves a ton of credit for 50-39.”
Gardy will do it his way, this is true. I guess the only thoughts I have on it are that I would rather have Kubel and Monroe bat than Monroe and Punto later. Also, in that situation, you don’t need a home run - a walk scores a run. So, even if you don’t want Kubel to bat against a lefty, go with someone else off of the bench who stands a much better chance of getting on base than Monroe. I guess I would have sent up Redmond in that situation, looking over the bench options…
Oh well. It was a great game to watch, that’s for sure.
And Jason, I’m with you. I’d watch Pudge play anytime, anywhere. It may be a long time before we see another cather like him. He truly commands the field when he’s in the game. There are other great catchers for sure (and I’m not dismissing Mauer), but none as good as Pudge (IMHO).
this is refreshing all the young haters are on joe’s site. was nice to hear a new perspective even though it sounded like they had been fed info by the twins brass. i liked the comment on how youthful players can really feel the media (souhan and co.) and fans get on them when things go poorly, veterans tend to have go with the flow. it doesn’t hurt to remember this is a young team, it was thought to be a rebuilding yr and here in july and only a couple games out. enjoy while we can!
Pudge is so washed up it’s ridiculous. He has been living off his reputation for the last 3 years or so. I don’t know who is more overrated right now Pudge or Jeter?
Plunkton,
Yes, I do remeber LaPanta and Coom as replacements, they were a bit of alright. I still say that most of the time I’m ok with LaPanta, but sometimes, just sometimes, he comes off as a bit snarkey and not so nice.
Three huge blunders by Gardy last night.
First, you don’t bring Brian Bass and his 4.09 K/9 into a tie game to face the top of one of the best lineups in baseball. Just about anyone else in the bullpen would have been a better choice - including Boof.
Bass certainly should have been pulled after Pedroia’s double. Breslow has significantly better stuff and the left-handed J.D. Drew was up to bat.
Then - for the second time in a week - the best pitcher on the team was left sitting on his butt with one out in the 8th inning. Once again, the Twins lose the game on the next at-bat. I said it last week and I’ll say it again: the Twins are paying Nathan big money to save games. He needs to be on the mound when the game needs saving, whether it’s a “save situation” or not.
When Young struck out why in the world did he go to seek Gomez’s help?
peter i will agree with you on that one. sometimes the save is in the 8th but the use of nathan only in 9th inning save situations will not change, cast in stone!
Peter - the injury to Neshek has caused Gardy to shuffle his bullpen obviously and he has to put pitchers in positions where they need to “step up” in order for the bullpen to be effective.. Bass just didn’t get the job done last night.. Nathan just blew a save against Brewers.. it happens plus Nathan’s numbers when being used in a non-save situation are not as good as SAVE situations
Pudge washed up? What about his ability to call a game or handle pitchers or all the things a catcher does that don’t show up in stats. It’s only in some fantasy world that you look at a guy’s batting average and pronounce him washed up.
Fire - here are some Joe Nathan 2008 stats for you:
Runners on: 0.42 WHIP, 0.95 BAA, 8.3 K/9
RISP: 0.64 WHIP, .125 BAA, 15.0 K/9
RISP/2 outs: 0.33 WHIP, .000 BAA, 15.0 K/9
That looks pretty dang good to me, and supports bringing Nathan in with the game on the line.
what are his stats when game is tied or Twins are behind when he enters the game that’s what I was referring to not whether runners are on base.
As far as asking Bass to “step up” - part of being a good manager is understanding the abilities of your players, and - more importantly - the limits thereof. Bass has a long enough track record that we pretty much know what he is - a mop-up guy who pitches to contact and doesn’t strike people out. He may have a role to play on the team, but shutting down the Red Sox in the 8th inning of a tie game definitely isn’t it.
Nathan seems to relax and brings a different mindset when he come into a game that is not a SAVE situation.. I wish I could find the stats breakdown to show you.. this was brought out a few years back when discussing this same topic..I will attempt to find something later…
The number of outs and whether there are runners on have more influence on a pitcher’s performance than the score. The numbers I referenced are the right ones to look at.
If you bring Nathan into a tie game in the 8th because the rest of the Twins bullpen can’t contain the Sox, then someone else (Bass?) loses in the 9th or 10th inning and neither of them are available today.
I can’t refute your assertion without real data until I can find a save/non-save stat breakdown
Everytime another reliever fails, the idea that Nathan should have been pitching is nonsense.
The other relievers have to do THEIR jobs, so Nathan is rested and prepared to do his.
No matter how well Bass has pitched over his last 12 games, throwing him into the bottom of the 8th in a 0-0 game in the playoff atmosphere of Fenway was a horrible decision. Why try that now? The only reason for that would be to audition a player to see how they handle it so they can fill a need or if you have no other choice. Neither was the case. That was a bad choice by Gardy.
Another bad choice was pinch hitting for Kubel. Monroe is 9 for 65 against LHP and Kubel is 9 for 37 against LHP. Have a better understanding of your player’s abilities and don’t let convention dictate your decisions. Or if you do, be consistent and don’t bring in your long reliever in the pressure cooker 8th inning.
Yeah, it was a good game. It was well played and entertaining. The fact is though that it was our game to win. We let it slip away and wasted ANOTHER good outing from Baker. It seems we do that way too often.
If you bring Nathan into a tie game in the 8th because the rest of the Twins bullpen can’t contain the Sox, then someone else (Bass?) loses in the 9th or 10th inning and neither of them are available today.
If someone else pitches the 9th, then Nathan would have only gone 2/3 of an inning and would be available today.
And again, bringing in Nathan wouldn’t have been necessary if Gardy hadn’t brought in Bass to start the 8th.
Nobody (including Bass or Bonser) is on the staff JUST to mop-up or get the Twins through blowouts.
They all have to perform in game-deciding situations (although they all fail sometime).
If they can’t perform in the clutch and the staff thinks that they never will perform in the clutch, they need to be replaced.
When Nathan, Neshek, Guerrier, Crain, Reyes and Rincon were all pitching well, no one was being hidden from clutch situations.
Since Neshek and Rincon are yesterday, Breslow, Bonser and Bass have to put their face in the fire occasionally and become battle tested. You can’t pitch the same three relievers every night hoping that tomorrow’s game will be a blowout.
Honestly, I’m glad I can come over here a few times during the day so I can get my laughs in. It does make the work day easier to get through. The childish “my stats are the right stats” stuff is always good for a laugh.
Not only can everyone find just the right stat to back up his case for what the Twins do wrong, but no matter what happens in the game the night before, it seems like everyone finds a way to bring their pet subject in to the discussion.
Last night provided fertile ground for all of the Gardy/Punto/Monroe/Young haters AND since they finally lost a game they very well could have won, it also allows all of the general “Twins do everything wrong” people back in to discussion. It must have been just killing them to have to sit through a month of almost constant wins!
There’s no debating the fact that this month’s schedule is far more challenging than June’s was. The Twins will be have to play very well just to survive the next 4 weeks with a .500 record over that period.
Fortunately, that should give everyone plenty of opportunities to bitch and moan… and make up for having to endure the pain of being relatively silent for the past 3 weeks.
Breslow, Bonser and Bass have to put their face in the fire occasionally and become battle tested.
It’s not a matter of being battle tested. It’s a matter of whose skills are most appropriate for the situation. In the late innings of a tie game, the ability to record outs without putting men on base is at a premium. The only Twins reliever with a higher WHIP than Bass is Boof, but at least Boof has a decent strikeout rate.
Whats up ya’ll.
Took a great trip over 4th of July, road tripping out to Denver To see some Colorado Rockies games. Was fortunate enough to be in the stands for the most entertaining and fun baseball game I’ve ever been too or seen on the 4th, the 18-17 come from behind victory by the Rocks.
Me and my 2 friends, since we are all Twins fans at heart, came to the game deciding to cheer for offense, we wanted to see some scoring. Boy did we get our wish. The game was incredible, and by the end of it, we couldn’t help but be Rockies fans.
The very first pitch of it, thrown by Greg Reynolds of the Rockies, was crushed by Hanley Ramirez to dead center about 5 rows in front of us, we were in row 19, at that park (Coors Field) thats about a 440+ ft shot. Later in Florida’s half of the inning Matt Treanor hit a 3 run shot that put Colorado in 5-0 hole before they even batted.
became an Instant fan of Rockies CF Ryan Spilborghs the second his music came on for his leadoff at bat of the game for the Rockies, its a selection of Michael Jackson’s ‘Thriller’ that just seemed so right for this guy, unexpected and awesome, fans there seem to think its cool too, seemed there was more of an applause and reaction from fans for that. Spilborghs himself had quite a day as the game went on, 2 HR’s and a 3B shy of cyle.
Anyway, game was odd (but awesome) to say the least, rockies scored 1 in their half of first but gave 2 back making it 7-1 before they hit in the 2nd, they were able to add a couple in their half making it 7-3 (Rockies scored in every inning except the 8th).
In the 4th the Marlins blew up on Colorado Reliever Cedric Bowers and added 6 more runs to push their lead to 13-5 after the 4th inning. By this time me and my buddies were happy to see the offense but disappointed in the home teams showing to that point. You just got the feeling though that everyone else in that park didn’t feel the same way, bummed they were, but hope was not fleeting. Thats how I’d describe it, was just weird.
Next 3 innings the Rockies went off, plating 11 total runs in the 5th, 6th, and 7th, putting on a display of power that I’ve never seen (though I’m sure Rox fans have before in the thin air). Spilborghs hit one 435 ft down the LF line in the 4th, landed on the concourse not in the seats, LF Matt Holiday and C Chris Ianetta added blasts in the 5th, and 3B Garret Atkins hit a two-run shot in the 6th in addition to Spilborghs second of the night to pull the Rockies back, making it 13-12 at the end of 6. Rockies fans were goin nuts, but not for long as Colorado’s pen gave up 4 runs in the 7th, to the Uneducated bout the Rockies me, I thought this put a fork in ‘em after all that effort to crawl back after being down by 9. Wrong.
Marlins reliever struggled to keep guys off the bases and loaded them with nobody out to face Matt Holliday. He crushed a low and outside pitch (not a strike) into the fountain beyond the fence in Center field, Grand Slam and 2nd HR of the day to bring them back again, now 17-16. Holliday’s reaction after hitting it was awesome, bat flip and ‘hell yeah’-thats-outtahere-Sosa-esque hop. Got a good Pick of him rounding third and slapping hand of third base coach. By this time we were good and sauced along with all the other local fans, needless to say, craziness ensued in the CF seats.
In the 9th we dawned the Rally Caps and hoped for a dramatic end as the Rocks couldn’t tie it in the 8th and were still down by 1 as they came to bat. Loud, inebriated screams of ‘RALLY!!’ erupted after clint barmes singled to start the inning, and Holliday followed with another single moving him to third. Enter Garret Atkins who with 5 hits already in the game makes his first out of the night a dramatic one, as he lined out to LF, scoring Barmes from third on the Sac Fly. Nuts crowd, Nuts. Which I think threw off Hanley Ramirez, as he dropped the assisting throw from 2nd on a double play ball that could’ve ended the rally and kept the game going. Instead Chris Ianetta pushed a slow roller through a drawn in infield for the winner. Great pic of Rockies celebrating, reminded me off what they probably looked like after winning the NLCS last year.
Nuts man, even more so than what you guys probably saw or heard on SportsCenter, incredible in person. Most entertaining game ever, thought I’d share.
Got to go down on the field for Fireworks after the game as well, pretty cool.
BTW - even more depsressed that Twins stadium isn’t opening for 2 more years. Coors Field is incredible, took the tour and everything, can’t wait for it because it does make such a HUGE difference in going out to enjoy a game when you’ve got an awesome park. Atmosphere was a lot different then the dome’s.
The new Mile-High is friggin’ crazy too, I can see why the Metrodome is so crappy, there is no-way it could come even close to generating the type of revenue these stadiums produce with their Club level seats and other various ammenities and attractions the Dome is lacking, even if they Renovated it still wouldn’t come close.
thanks for reading through all that if you did 
The childish “my stats are the right stats” stuff is always good for a laugh.
So I assume you have actual evidence that save/non-save splits are more predictive of a pitcher’s performance with RISP than his past performance with RISP?
Crickett:
““my stats are the right stats” stuff is always good for a laugh.”
I thought going against the book last night almost worked and we almost got lucky! Sometimes you’re better to be lucky than good.
“Sometimes.” LOL!
It looks as though Bass is with the club to stay (at least for 2008). So it makes sense to put him into some “pressure” situations…so that he has some exposure to them. Also, he has been effective of late.
I’d rather have him falter in July and learn a little something from it than have his first “real test” come during the pennant race in September or a playoff game.
kinda looks to me like the mighty red sox won last night’s game with small ball. little guy doubles, moves to third on an infield out, scores on a single. hmmm. very interesting.
Peter,
“It’s not a matter of being battle tested. It’s a matter of whose skills are most appropriate for the situation.”
Stats measure past performance, not “skills”. Thats why player’s stats improve. When a pitcher can now execute his pitches because the situation no longer adversely affects his execution, then he has “skills” and his stats improve.
If you think all players with good stats have more “skills” than players with lesser stats, then you haven’t played much.
You are ignoring the experience factor and how that factor can calm a pitcher and allow him to better execute his pitches.
Skid Row is full of pitchers with “skills”
Sounds like you had a great time, TwinsNotesGuy… I know some of the most fun I’ve had at ballgames have been games where I didn’t have a true rooting interest and I love getting the chance to see as many MLB ballparks as possible. Haven’t been inside Coors Field for a game yet, but it’s on my ‘must see’ list.
Peter, you really do make me smile. You missed my point entirely but that’s fine. It’s not that I have “evidence” of anything. Could I point out that Nathan’s career BA-against with the Red Sox is .275 and that his WHIP against them is close to 1.50? Sure I could. But my point is that it’s simply entertaining to see so many people so convinced they’re friggin EXPERTS at running/managing a major league baseball team and not only do you think your stats are the “right” stats, your mind is completely closed to any other possible opinion!
It’s like people can’t sleep unless they’ve convinced the whole strib-blog-reading world how “right” they are! LOL
The bottom line for the Twins last night was that they couldn’t catch any breaks. They kept hitting the ball right to Red Sox players. The best example was when Punto tripled and Span lined out right to Lowell. Then there was the line out to first that doubled Young off of first. If they keep hitting the ball hard tonight, more are bound to fall in.
Interesting comments…
I’m standing by my “I won’t second guess last night” take. I know I second guess just like everyone else, but it’s always based on a first-guess, and I wasn’t overly bothered by any move as it happened, so I can’t claim to be mad about it now. I stand by Gardy’s calls…which have been right the majority of the year, and I’ll just chalk last night up to one that didn’t work out.
That said, I would like to explore the option of using Nathan more outside the 9th inning bounds…I know this isn’t the way Gardy has done business in the past….however, in the past, there was always a reliable set up man as part of the equation…since we don’t have a super reliable bullpen for clutch situations, I would like to at least toy with using the one clutch guy we do have to get 4-5 outs once in a while…
You are ignoring the experience factor and how that factor can calm a pitcher and allow him to better execute his pitches.
How does “the experience factor” argue in favor of Bass, a rookie who’s been in the majors for three months?
Could I point out that Nathan’s career BA-against with the Red Sox is .275 and that his WHIP against them is close to 1.50? Sure I could.
And I would’ve given you credit for raising a fair point had you done that.
Jason, I second guess with the best of them. When I saw Bass on the mound last night, I thought “what the hell is Gardy thinking?”. Nothing wrong with second guessing. It’s a fan’s right. It’s only when we start to feel like we know everything that we start sounding pretty silly.
It could be that Gardy was thinking, “Ive got Cuddy coming back in a week and a tough decision to make about who I don’t keep around for the second half of the season. Bass has looked good lately, but let’s find out how he handles a tight situation so I know whether I can count on him when it matters.” Or maybe he and Andy just flipped a coin… I dunno.
I’d like to see them get more creative with Nathan, too. But I’m not sure this is the point in the season when you start expecting him to go more innings. I want him strong in September. Like a few others, however, I do subscribe to the theory that it probably makes more sense to use your best guy when the best part of the opponents’ order is coming up, regardless of whether that’s the 9th inning. Doubt we see that philosophy adopted any time soon, however.
“Breslow, Bonser and Bass have to put their face in the fire occasionally and become battle tested.” - sane
“It’s not a matter of being battle tested” -peter
“You are ignoring the experience factor and how that factor can calm a pitcher and allow him to better execute his pitches.- sane
“How does “the experience factor” argue in favor of Bass, a rookie who’s been in the majors for three months?”- peter
How does Bass get experience, unless he puts his face in the fire occasionally and becomes battle tested?
Your solution would have half the bullpen still on Mother’s milk in September. If so, those guys will still be wetting their pampers down the stretch and you will be asking Nathan and Guerrier to pitch 2-innings-per-game, every game, while we hide the other relievers in the closet!
TESTING - leads to success - leads to confidence - leads to continued success.
NO TESTING - leads to no confidence - leads to failure.
Bass, Breslow and Bonser have to take the first path, or the Twins will circle the drain down the stretch.
Crikket - It was awesome, definitely go see Coors, I don’t have any other ‘newer’ stadiums that I’ve been too to compare it with, but its gotta be right up there, you can see the field from anywhere on the concourses cause they’re open (unlike the dome, think more like Xcel) and everything was ‘closer’, scoreboard is awesome too, have both teams lineups and pitchers on it all times along with info on the batters previous at-bats, really cool, and friggin huge, bigger than probably 6 of the Dome’s screens if you put them side by side and on top of eachother. Would wan’t Club Level seats if I went back again, the facilities and seating on the tour we took from there were incredible. Felt like a 5 star hotel on that level, carpeted flooring in its concourse, open bars, air conditioned. Would be a Really sweet place to take in a game.
How does Bass get experience, unless he puts his face in the fire occasionally and becomes battle tested?
He earns the right to pitch in high-leverage situations by his performance in lower-leverage situations. That’s how Crain, Guerrier, and Neshek all earned their spots on the team. It would be one thing if Bass was a supremely talented youngster with ridiculous numbers (like Neshek in ‘06), but he’s basically an average pitcher with a below-average K rate.
Bass didn’t fail last night for lack of “battle testing,” he failed for lack of pitching ability and because his manager put him in a situation where his likelihood of success was low relative to the other options in the bullpen.
TNG, so far Coors is in the same category as the new ballparks in San Diego, Houston and Arlington… I’ve seen them but not been to a game there yet. I’m hoping to get to a game in Arlington next month. Probably not going to make Denver this season 
I suppose that’s one way to look at it, Peter.
Another way to look at it is the ONLY reason Bass is thrown into that situation last night is because Crain has repeatedly failed in big spots thus far in 2008.
Therefore, you give Bass a chance to succeed on a big stage. Now I will agree that Bass was probably overmatched for that particular situation, but once again, I will back Gardy on that move–you hope Brian Bass learns from that experience so next time he will be better prepared.
As a previous poster noted, he almost struck Manny out. But that even being said, it doesn’t say much for Jesse Crain that the manager has more faith in Bass at this point.
Let’s face it. Bass is a downgrade from Guerrier (as middle inning guy)and Guerrier and Crain are not up to the standards set by the “Rincon of old” and Pat Neshek. Apparently Bonser gets to pitch when they’re ahead 7-0 and Breslow is getting the Travis Miller chair. Makes me long for the really really good old days when “Birmingham Al” Worthington came in in the 8th with runners on 1st and 2nd, one out, and you could bet your weeks pay there’s be a sinkerball hit to the short stop for an inning ending double play. Then he pitched the 9th and closed out the game. Not any more.
I thought that the 1-0 game was tough to swallow. Little did I know that twenty four hours later that loss would pale in comparison.
