This is a good problem to have, friends
Posted on July 11th, 2008 – 9:15 AMBy Howard
So there’s been some concern throughout the Territory about what to do when Michael Cuddyer returns to health because the Twins will, at that time, have four outfielders who are being judged capable of full-time play. In some circles, this is being described as a headache. In Section 220, this is called a reason to celebrate.
I mean, really, are our memories so short that we forget when the Twins felt like they had no alternative to starting Jason Tyner, Lew Ford or Rondell White in the outfield? Or, if you go back a few years, hoping that Michael Cuddyer would finally find a position after proving himself less than stellar in the infield. Fortunately, right field worked for him.
At this point, it is obvious that only a fool would return Denard Span to the minors. His performance Thursday — triple, three singles, walk — jolted his offensive numbers to .361 average/.466 on-base percentage/.475 slugging percentage. Granted, we’re talking about 75 plate appearances — but even a 100-point dropoff in OBP would put him fourth among the current everyday players behind Mauer, Morneau and Otnup Kcin.
What to do with four starting outfielders? Play three and have a weapon on the bench.
Against lefties, you can have all four of ‘em in the lineup. Yes, I know this turns Jason Kubel back into a platoon DH and relegates Craig Monroe to the status of exalted pinch hitter. But good teams have those weapons — guys who can come off the bench and deliver and, yes, guys who would likely be starting for other teams. Think about it: When was the last time the Twins had a player sitting on the bench who would be a starter elsewhere?
Gonna try some understatement here: I’m OK with that.
Today it’s being reported that Cuddyer’s finger-injury comeback is being delayed and that he’s frustrated. I feel his frustration and I want him back. But if the Denard debut isn’t a total illusion, everyone is going to have to understand that things have changed in the last few weeks — and for the better.
The good news is that, based on the way he handled Fenway’s right field, Span should be able to play all three outfield positions. In a week of baseball, there are 21 outfield spots. In a pure rotation of some sort, which isn’t going to happen, that’s “5.25 starts per week” for each player. Throw in starts against lefties and adjust for who’s hot and who may need a day — and the Twins should consider themselves outfield enhanced when Cuddyer is fit to play.
That would also be the cue for the Twins to go with 11 pitchers through the end of August and get Brian Bass back to Rochester, even though it includes the risk of losing him to another team via waivers.
For the sake of discussion, the Twins could field a batting order that looks like this: Span, rf; Casilla, 2b; Mauer, c; Morneau, 1b, Young, lf; Kubel/Cuddyer, dh; Buscher/Harris, 3b; Otnup Kcin, ss; Gomez, cf.
Then, the bench would include Cuddyer/Kubel, Harris/Buscher, Monroe, Redmond and Lamb.
Compare that bench to these:
2007: Tyner, Cheerful Jeff Cirillo, Luis Rodriguez, White, Ford, Redmond.
2006: Kubel, Tyner, Rodriguez, JuanCastro and the washed-up cast of Ruben Sierra/Phil Nevin/Tony Batista.
2005: Matt Lecroy, Castro, Rodriguez, Redmond, Terry Tiffee, Mike Ryan.
So what, exactly, is the headache?
A few other thoughts:
*Yes, Span has made some baserunning mistakes — especially the steal of second when Mauer was batting in the 10th yesterday. But I get the sense that he’s a quick study. After watching him play Fenway’s odd right field, I’m wondering what he did before the games started to figure things out.
*Justin Morneau is a game-changing monster: Second in RBI, third in average, 4th in hits and more than holding his own against lefties. The Twins are a rare team that can bat lefties No. 3 and 4 and dare the opposing manager to bring in the Bobby Seays of the world.
*Matt Guerrier is a class act, both in the way he handled his failure on Tuesday in Boston and in the way he bailed out the Twins yesterday afternoon by pitching the 10th and 11th. (Interesting to see Gardy go against the “book” by bringing in Nathan to pitch the bottom of the ninth in a tie game on the road, which was obviously the right time to break that “rule.”) Here’s a Guerrier stat: Since May 1, he’s allowed no runners or one runner in 25 of his 33 appearances. That’s pretty good shutdown work. By comparison, Jesse Crain has done that 14 times in 29 appearances and Joe Nathan 20 in 27. If they don’t get on base, they don’t score.
*On-base-plus-slugging percentage is a good way to get an all-around handle on a player’s offensive contribution: Morneau is at .902, Mauer .875, Otnup .838.
*Look, an entire post without going here!
other people are here too
132 Responses to "This is a good problem to have, friends"
Otnup Kcin! I didnt know we had any egyptian players!!!
“have four outfielders who are being judged capable of full-time play.”
The Twins need to seriously consider that Carlos Gomez may not be ‘capable of full-time play.’
Since the beginning of May, Gomez is hitting .259/.301/.658 with 67 strike outs and only 12 walks. His calling card - his speed - has been almost neutralized on the base paths. He is 10 for 18 in stolen base attempts. I’m also no expert in routes taken to fly balls, but it seems that Gladden is frequently making comments on how Gomez has taken poor routes to fly balls.
Where’s the harm in sending Gomez to AAA? Start Span in center, Young in left, Cuddyer in right, and Kubel at DH? To me, that makes more sense - everyone who needs to play every day is playing every day.
If Span doesn’t steal, I don’t think Mauer would have gotten anything to hit anyways - just changed the walk from “unintentional-intentional” to intentional.
Howard
In your lineup you have 2 CF’s and no LF. What is your thinking in moving Delmon back to RF?
Do you guys remember how Cuddyer was playing this year? I know he was injured for a portion of that time but he was pretty awful. I’d send him down to rehab in Florida until he learns how to hit above .250. I bet Bill Smith is already regretting that contract he gave Cuddy. They gave him at least $10 million more than he was worth. There are about 15 Michael Cuddyer’s in MLB right now. Would you give Ryan Church that much money?
Cuddyer back at third base possibly?
jama,
My bad. I fixed it. My “discussion” lineup should have had Young-Gomez-Span with Cuddyer/Kubel as DH. But I could see flipping Span and Young down the road.
Kloob,
I hear a clanging noise and it sounds like a baseball glove!
Give me a break about Denard Span. Michael Cuddyer is proven when healthy as a player. Span played awesome in the DET game but he hasn’t played in more than 20 games! My friend thinks we should trade Cuddyer or Young because Span is SO good. HAHAHAHA!
Here are his minor league stats. A MORE telling fact about his abilities.
2007 AAA - AVE267 HR3 RBI55 BB40 SO90 SB25 CS14 OBP323
2006 AA - AVE285 HR2 RBI45 BB40 SO78 SB24 CS11 OPS340
The guy is an average baserunner that isn’t good since he has plus speed. He has NO power at all and despite the eye he is showing now, he has never been able to draw walks to offset his lack of power AND he strikes out a lot. His fielding is average with a below to average arm. At BEST this guy is a 4th outfielder.
These numbers are pathetic! And guess what? You can actually take something from these numbers over a 2 year span than 75+ ABs in the big leagues.
Denard Span is equal to if not worse than Lew Ford and Jason Tyner based on what he has accomplished in the minors. Both Ford & Tyner had some accomplished seasons in the Big Leagues and WAY better minor league stats.
Once the scouting report is out on Span (if he even gets enough At Bats) he won’t be doing half so well. At least with Casilla he has been a proven player in the minors (though not last year) and has rated above average defense and plus speed with solid baserunning skills. Have him bat leadoff.
Sean,
Can you please find me some Casilla numbers (above AA), going back as far as 2005, that give any hint of what he’s done with the Twins this season? Thanks.
Why are stat geeks incapable of taking their eyes off the numbers on their computer monitors, and actually watching the games?
Anyone who can’t SEE the difference in the play of Span and Casilla compared to last year (and previous years) is too myopic to have any player evaluation credibility.
Eve if Span and Casilla had NEVER gotten a minor league hit in their careers, but showed the hitting approach and swing that EVERYONE CAN SEE NOW, their chances of present and future success would be fine.
But stat geeks can never let go of their precious numbers from the past and realize that sometimes the “light suddenly goes on” and renders past performance to the trash heap.
Sean
What has Cuddyer proven? That he is an average hitting Right Fielder?
you are correct Howard.. sometimes young players gain experience and improve!!
Anyone think the Twins should throw a no risk decent reward contract at Richie Sexson. I know his numbers aren’t great, but a pinch hitting righty with pop. Plus you could get him for a little bit of nothing with the Mariners paying for his big contract. Just a question. I would eat a contract of Lamb, Everett, or someone else for Sexson. Any thoughts?
Sean, have you been WATCHING the games lately?
Kloob, Cuddyer did not do well at 3rd and he looked and said that he was not comfortable there. His offense took off when they moved him to RF. Of course, he has not looked so good this year.
“Why are stat geeks incapable of taking their eyes off the numbers on their computer monitors, and actually watching the games?”
sitting in the bleachers with the hot sun beating down isn’t as much fun and playing with your keyboard. stats can be made to support any arguement and often both sides of it. sitting in the stands or just watching a lot of games a good baseball person can “feel” who is good and who doesn’t have it. that’s what scouts are paid to do and why some are better than others, they all can read the stats but not all can judge who has “it”!
“But stat geeks can never let go of their precious numbers from the past and realize that sometimes the “light suddenly goes on” and renders past performance to the trash heap.”
I think it is pretty rare that a “light goes on” for a player at the Major League level and they thy become as successful as Span and Casilla have been. Do you have some examples?
With some players - such as Casilla - it’s hard to tell. He is only 23, and he moved quickly through the minors. Do I suspect that he is going to continue to slug .430? He doesn’t seem to be that type of player. But his batting average and on base percentage are pretty close to his career minor league numbers.
As for Span, the numbers he is putting up this year - in both the majors and minor leagues - are pretty crazy. Do you honestly expect him to continue to have an OBP over .400?
They are both having a great run, and are showing that they can compete at the Major League level. But to expect them to continue on their current paces is expecting too much, in my opinion.
From the sounds of things the Twins won’t have to worry about their new found outfield glut for awhile.I think Cuddy is probably two or three weeks away.This will give D-Span the opportunity to get more AB’s and give everyone a better sample of what he might be capable of.
I like Howards idea of the four headed outfield though.TK was always a master at putting players with flaws into situations that they could succeed in.This would give Gardenhire the chance to do the same.As an example wouldn’t it be nice to have D-Span as a late inning defensive replacement for Delmon the Defensively Challenged? A rotation of these four could really be an asset.
The theory that a:
1)fast, athletic, skilled player who NOW has a compact and explosive swing, but:
2)his poor past numbers make future success unlikely–
is crap.
you could field a great team of guys with not very good #’s but who were really good ball players.
isn’t sexson a tall monroe?
PeteD,
“But to expect them to continue on their current paces is expecting too much, in my opinion.”
Their current paces don’t have to be maintained for them to stay solid MLB players.
Their current approaches and strokes DO have to be maintained for them to stay solid MLB players.
My point:
Forget the #$%&@ numbers.
Concentrate on the process and the technique and HOW they play NOW.
The results will take care of themselves as the end result of the process!
This is what Cuddyer has proved.
2006 - AVE284 HR24 RBI109 BB62 OBP362! 102R! If you get 100R and 100RBI in a season… Well that’s outstanding.
2007 - AVE276 HR16 RBI81 BB64 OBP356 R87
Plus he has a cannon for an arm in right.
That’s what he has proved. Span has proven he has 75ABs and has hit well in those at bats. That’s it. Cuddyers numbers the last two years in the Bigs show he can play. Its crap to give up on him cause he has been injured. Wow he is hitting 252 this year in limited time. I guess he should be cut… Give me a break.
Casilla hasn’t palyed more than one year of AAA ball. His numbers when he did play AAA ball were better than Spans.
AVE 269 HR3 RBI20-BB34-SO50-SB24-CS-12-OBP345
He also won a little thing called the Twins Minor League Player of the Year. Between A and AA he hit 318 84 Runs 46 RBI and 50 Stolen bases.
He is also considered to have an above average glove.
When you look at these things about Casilla you say okay this guy can hang around.
Casilla has way more than 61ABs this year as well.
When you look at Span he hasn’t done anything to justify starting over Cuddyer or Young. If Span keeps hitting and playing the way he has for more than 20 games then we can talk. We can talk about keeping him around as a 4th outfielder. The Twins don’t need another OF starter who can’t hit for power.
I happen to be a big believer in minor league track record as an indicator.
I happen to believe that a light can go on and a player can become better than his previous numbers would indicate.
I also believe in the concept of small sample size. I know that teams develop scouting reports and pitchers are able to find a player’s weak spots and attack them.
I also believe that the really good hitters find a way to adjust back to what the pitchers are doign to him. Plenty of players have been good for up to a half season and never made that adjustment. Others have and their careers last longer and are better.
Span’s sample size is too small to make any certain claims, positive or negative.
I believe that he has shown enough in his small sample to 1.) be a little excited about and 2.) warrant additional playing time.
As someone who has played and coached, I can also see what Span brings to the table. I LOVE his approach at the plate and the number of pitches he sees and the fact that he isn’t just a slap hitter and it appears that he has turned some corner (I say appears because again, he will have to continually make adjustments).
Defensively, I absolutely think he is big league caliber. (So is Gomez)
As a Twins Fan, obviously my hope is that he is what he is right now, that he has made all the adjustments and is truly ready to shine in the big leagues. that’s obviously what we all want.
Mr.sane, Re: your posts at 10:18 & 10:43, AMEN!! Howard, Great post..few teams ever lose becuz they have too much augmenting talent. Don’t forget that both Sexson and Beltre really made their bones in the weaker NL and Beltre’s great year in LA may have involved some juice. On the geek’s behalf, don’t forget that last year at this time, the Indians had a phenom 2B named Asdrubel(sp?) Cabrera, who now is playing for Buffalo (AAA). In short, play the hot hand, amass good talent who can play the game with smarts and sit back and enjoy.
Howard…I’m in 100% agreement with you on the team’s batting order and bench roster. If I see one more “suggestion” from the readers/bloggers that Cuddyer should be moved from RF to 3B…I’m crackin’ skulls!!! Also, no matter what, Go-Go stays up with the big club, listens-watches-learns when he’s not in the lineup.
Would you have 4th outfielder Span, or somebody like starting 3B Kouz/Atkins/Beltre?
If the Twins go hunting in the trade market, these are the types of decisions they’ll have to make.
Personally, I like the idea of improving 3B more than keeping a freshly minted stud in Denard Span on the bench.
But Cuddy being out (likely past the deadline) throws a wrench in the whole thing.
Bring in the new 3B, Buscher and Harris become bench options along with Monroe and Redmond…and that’s not a bad bench.
That’s provided they find something to do with Lamb.
I think that they are just going to have to eat Lamb’s salary and cut him. We need his spot for productive players. They’ve given him plenty of chances, for whatever reason, he’s just not getting the job done.
We have to keep Bass. You put him on waivers and he is gone. If we have to move someone when Cuddy comes back it should be Lamb. He was a waste of money and Bass has a future in the big leagues and he should remain a TWIN.
T
I wouldn’t trade Span (or anyone else with potential) for Beltre.
Check out this new webcast… good Twins info.
http://media.myfoxtwincities.com/livestream/webcast/archive.htm
cuddyer had one good year, that is it. all he has proven since is that he can flail around like he is just coming out of the womb. All you have to do is throw him 3 sliders and he will strike himself out. just watch the games and you would see this. Its more likely his one year was a fluke than it is that span will be a flop. you want to look at numbers look at them before that year. He is a .260 hitter at best. I don’t care if you hit 20 hrs if you aren’t ever on base otherwise.
Who’s gonna take a guy that was good for two weeks, and gives up ENORMOUS innings? The mark of a good pitcher, especially a reliever is what Nathan did yesterday. Work out of trouble, even if it’s your own. If Bass walks the bases loaded yesterday, all three of those runs come around and score because he throws a ‘get-it-over’ fastball and the Tigers pound it into the gap, if not over the fence!
I think he could sneak through waivers if you really wanted to keep him. 12 pitchers is one too many anyway.
solid analysis
Someone please save this conversation and let’s see what happens in 2 months. The chances, despite Sane’s ranting, are in favor of Span and Casilla regressing to the norm. Like Seth says, it’s not a given, but the chances are very much in favor of that.
Don’t even get me started on Punto.
sane -
“Their current paces don’t have to be maintained for them to stay solid MLB players.
Their current approaches and strokes DO have to be maintained for them to stay solid MLB players.
My point:
Forget the #$%&@ numbers.
Concentrate on the process and the technique and HOW they play NOW.
The results will take care of themselves as the end result of the process!”
I agree that they can both be solid MLB players. I’m not trying to argue that they cannot. Casilla has obviously played well enough to stick with the team the rest of the year as a starter, and Span has earned some playing time. But as Sean stated, Cuddyer has earned his playing time with good offensive years. The past two years, he had an OPS+ of 124 and 111. Cuddyer had a terrible May, but a very good June. The homers have been lacking, but he still slugged .481 for the month.
Giving playing to Span at the expense of Cuddyer and Kubel seems like a bad idea to me. Span has been very good in the time he has spent up here, but those other two players have very good track records at the major league level.
It is possible that a light “turned on” for Span. It is more likely that he is having a hot streak, and his numbers will come back down below those of Cuddyer and Kubel. It’s not a problem at this moment, because Cuddyer is on the DL. However, if Span is still hitting this well when Cuddyer is set to return, the Twins should probably take time away from Young and Gomez - not Kubel and Cuddyer.
“cuddyer had one good year, that is it.”
He has actually had 2 good years, the past 2. And judging by his numbers in the minors and the way he hit in June this year, it appears that he is probably an above average hitter. Add to that his cannon in right field, and he has a place in baseball.
Correct Pete D. And congrats Brian your post was pathetic. Probably the worst one I have seen. The two years before his two really good years in limited time he hit 263 both years. He also had decent OBP in both those year 330s which is better or equal to a lot of current twins players. Which means besides striking out he also walks a good amt of the time. He also hit 12 homers in both seasons and batting in 40+ runners. That was in he played a below average 3B. But he was still more productive than the Mike Lamb, Brendan Harris, Brian Buchser are now in his worst seasons.
And its obviously you hate Cuddyer and that you don’t know anything about baseball except you watch the game and “know” what you see. But lets say he is the worst player around. He also has two more years after this year on his contract and about 15 million bucks. Unless you flat out can’t perform anymore you start when you are healthy.
“Compare that bench to these:
2007: Cheerful Jeff Cirillo”
Hahaha! I actually laughed aloud at that one.
Remember when he blooped a game-winning hit last year and then seemed annoyed that he was being interviewed after the game? Weird times in the Twins clubhouse last year.
I like the four outfielder rotation. I like limiting Monroe to the bench (where he can pinch-hit three run bombs). And I like the Guerrier stat.
Moreso, you should bring that to Gardy’s attention next time you are guest-scoring the game, so he knows to pull Matty when the first couple runners get on base…
Go-Go is definitely going through a tough stretch. As the games get more crucial, I believe Gardy will be less forgiving of his shortcomings. Early in the season his sometimes downright comedic at-bats didn’t smart so much. Now they’re going to hurt a little more.
Be it in the minors or the majors, Span has been a different guy this year. If the proverbial light was going to be switched “on” for a ballplayer, I think this is how it would be done; it’s not the setting that is different for Span, it’s the season.
We’ll now see what lighting a fire under one’s bottom does to some of these guys. I don’t know that motivation has ever been a problem for Cuddyer or any of the other outfielders, but now he and they must know that they better make themselves useful if they want to stay in the lineup. That’s something new for the Twins. With Tyner, Ford, et. al., waiting in the wings that was never the case. They were obviously complementary talents. Do you think Cuddyer sat up nights wondering if Jason Tyner was going to take his job? Comparing Span unfavorably to those guys is preposterous.
To Sean - way back at 10:03 AM..
In your mind players can’t improve? Great research on PAST stats, but lets give the coaches that prepare the players some credit that come up from the minors.
Span seems to be getting more comfortable and CONFIDENT with the majors, as did Casilla. Experience and repetition are needed to be successful in any business. Just seems to me that Span has just “got it” in the last couple fo months, so throw your past stats out the window and let him play.
In my mind, the Span vs. Cuddy vs. Gomez discussion is completely moot as long as Mike Lamb continues to steal Grandpa Carl’s money while occupying a roster spot and giving us zero production. He has no role on this team. Cuddy can back up Justin at 1B. The Buscher / Harris platoon is doing fine at 3B, and if one of them tanks or gets hurt we can bring Macri back up. Monroe has shown the ability to come off the bench and knock one out of the park.
The only decision here is whether we pay Lamb to sit on the bench and block the path of better players, or pay him to go play golf the rest of the summer.
“Just seems to me that Span has just “got it” in the last couple fo months, so throw your past stats out the window and let him play.”
And that’s how guys like Adrian Beltre get 5 year, $64 million dollar deals. He “got it” in 2004, and then went back to the player he always was.
Players can absolutely improve. Span’s improvement this year, however, is a HUGE jump over anything else he has done in his professional career.
Ask Kleiner and sf. Good points. Let all of them feel comfortable & CONFIDENT. That said, let competition determine who plays and when. Then you find out who can play and who is not up to it. Good ole Puck was a great player, leader and competitor. Hope this group has, at least, one like him.
Lamb HAS to go……period.
I also cant see where we will have a place for Everett if he ever gets healthy , but I think we can at least dump him for some babseballs. I doubht we can get a can of pop for Lamb.. We need to biteteh bullet and release him.
LOL Hit button before Spelling check.
I type like Lamb hits!!!!!!
Pete D
Cuddyer’s stats last year are actually below average for RF’s in the AL. So last year was not really even a good year. I will agree that 2006 was a good year but it wasn’t a great year. Do you know how many players hit .284 with 24 HR’s? It’smore than you can count on your hands and toes. Those were Cuddy’s stats in 2006. I’m not going to start the RBI argument again, but that stat can be very misleading.
I’m not saying you don’t give Cuddyer a chance, but he is not nearly the player that people think he is.
A few years ago, Chone Figgins came up with the Angels, more or less without a position. But he played everywhere, and as I recall, the Angels did (and still do) a lot of winning in his lineup. Let’s see how all this works out in a year or two — a pleasant dilemma to have. I don’t think it’s far to judge players on what they’ve done in a half-season, and I hope people aren’t rushing to deal Cuddyer. Who knows, maybe he can be moved back to third base next season to solve that position (kind of like how the Indians have done with Casey Blake)
Ha a player can improve yes but usually after 4 years in the minors you see that improvement as they go along. Not suddenly this year he is an All-Star once he gets a chance at the Majors. He has 61 At Bats. WooHoo. He has played some good games so far so that’s cool but it’s stupid to think this guy should replace Young or Cuddyer. Also Gomez is the future at Center not Span. With Span say even if he hits 280 with an OBP of 340 and 25 SB and 50 RBI a year isn’t good enough to start in the outfield in the majors. If he played short or second then yes. But he is never going to hit 10 or more home runs in a year or drive in 70 or more in runs. That’s a problem for an outfielder unless you can bat 300 with 15 homeruns or steal 60 bases. Gomez has way more upside he can do what Span does but better and he also has possible power.
PeteD,
“Just seems to me that Span has just “got it” in the last couple of months, so throw your past stats out the window and let him play.”
“And that’s how guys like Adrian Beltre get 5 year, $64 million dollar deals.”
I am totally against giving Span a 5-year, $64 million dollar deal.
However I am very much in favor of playing him for the MLB minimum as long as he plays like he is currently playing or until Cuddyer AND Gomez AND Young can all out-perform him.
what i hear is cuddy had a good yr so keep him beltre had a good yr so don’t want him.
beltre in an off yr this yr would lead the twins in hr’s 16, and be 2nd in rbi 46.
career wise he is better than cuddy but not by a lot.
both 29;
cuddy career ave. full season 18hr, 79 rbi, .269 ave, .344 obp, .442 slg.
betre ave full season 25 hr, 89 rbi, .270 ave, .327 obp, .458 slg.
so if cuddy is good enough i’d say beltre is also good enough.
by all accounts beltre is a good fielder and a good guy, and being a dominican could be a good guy for casilla and gomez to learn from.
buscher, macri or harris are not going to come close to his #’s and he is probably a better fielder.
“And that’s how guys like Adrian Beltre get 5 year, $64 million dollar deals. He “got it” in 2004, and then went back to the player he always was.”
I get your point, and actually agree with it. However, Beltre is a somewhat poor example on your part. The player Beltre ‘always was’ is a solid, everyday thirdbaseman, one of the best in the American League.
I realize that Punto is injury prone and spent all of last year trying to figure out his swing, but he appears to be the heart/soul of this team. When he is playing well, the rest of the team feeds off his heart and fiesty play. I think he is underrated by many fans, but Gardy knows his value to this team !!
I’d love to send Gomez back to the minors, but I have to think his presence on the team has helped Casilla realize his full potential. I want Gomez to continue to stay in the majors, learn the game more, and have fun. More importantly, I want his energy to continue to feed Casilla, and I want Casilla to continue to learn from Gomez’s frequent mistakes. Gomez’s numbers haven’t been great, but he’s still a threat at the top of the order.
And I’m going to go out on a limb and theorize that Cliff Lee is responsible for Gomez’s recent slump. I think he got into Gogo’s head a little, and his teammates need to help him exorcise that demon.
Beltre makes 13 Million a year. The Twins would never take that contact on and it’s still got one more year left on it. He’s a solid player but overpaid. Cuddyer is close to him in stats (different positions) and makes half as much. Twins invest well. Tori Hunter is a joke at 18 million a year. A joke, I laugh at LA for signing him to that much. I laugh at Seattle for signing Silva for 13 million a year. I laugh at the Mets for signing Santana for 23 million a year. And not just the amounts but the LENGTH of the contracts.
jama -
I’m not trying to claim that Cuddyer is one of the better RF’ers in baseball. He is, however, one of the better hitters the Twins have, and has been for the past 2 seasons.
Cuddyer is a good MLB hitter. He isn’t a good hitting RF, but he has an amazing arm, and seems that RF might be the best place for him defensively.
For example, if he was still at 3B, his numbers would look a lot better. But then we have a worse RF.
I guess I’m not concerned how he hits relative to his position. I’m more looking at it compared to the league, and Cuddyer was a good hitter last year, compared to the rest of the league.
I don’t know what the Twins are doing with Gomez. Are they just letting him do up there and do whatever he wants? Or does he not listen? The reason why he sucks right now watching him swing. He hacks at everything and when he swings it’s poor. He is off balance and doesn’t have a set swing. Thought they might have taught him some stuff by now. He still has more talent in his thumb than Span but he needs some coaching. He should still be able to hit 270 just with his speed and talent alone. His range in CF is also amazing. But again I thought he might be starting to figure it out by now. He’s not. Move him to 9th for the rest of the year. If he still does the same stuff next year with no improvement. Then we have a problem.
“I get your point, and actually agree with it. However, Beltre is a somewhat poor example on your part. The player Beltre ‘always was’ is a solid, everyday thirdbaseman, one of the best in the American League.”
I used Beltre because his name is being tossed around a lot here. I probably could have come up with a much better example, I agree.
Interestingly, if Cuddyer had been playing 3B last year, instead of RF, would you have been happy with him getting paid what Beltre is? Because Beltre hit .276/.319/.482 last year, while Cuddyer hit .276/.356/.433. Their OPS+ were 112 for Beltre and 111 for Cuddyer. You give up some OBP for some Slugging if you choose Beltre over Cuddyer.
Beltre is certainly a solid player. But pretty badly overpaid at $12 million a year.
let’s see the heart and soul of the team was on the dl we had a ten gm winning streak and 12-1 and since he has been in the starting lineup we are around 5-5.
i will keep working on figuring that one out ………..
Who is saying Span is headed to Cooperstown? He’s been very productive and that productivity has led to some victories. Because that, they should play him whenever and wherever they can until he shows them he can’t do it. Because he doesn’t hit it out much, his top-end is not extremely high – I think everyone is aware of that. (It also makes you wonder why you take an outfielder in the first round who can’t hit it out, but that’s a debate for another day.) The great thing about Span is that he’s getting a shot and he’s making the most of it. Isn’t that something to feel good about?
I guess I’m missing the part of my rulebook where it says that HRs, hits (or any offensive stat) counts for more if it’s hit by a RF or 3B player than by, say, a shortstop. If Span’s hypothetical 25 SBs would be ok if he was a second-baseman, but not ok as a rightfielder, does that mean that stolen bases by an infielder count double? He gets to go to third instead of stopping at second?
OK — I know the answer is no. You all know that there is no “missing section” of the rulebook. So why do people keep talking like there is one? A guy’s worth to the team depends upon his contributions on both sides of the ball, but it doesn’t matter if he hits for power from a so-called “power position” or not. 40HRs from a 1B, 2B, SS or 3B are still 40 HRs. 25 SBs are the same regardless of the position of the player stealing them.
Now regarding Span, you can’t just ignore for convenience’s sake his AAA numbers this year: .340/.434/.481. If you want to talk about his minor league numbers, why are you ignoring his most recent 150+ ABs at that level?
I like that line-up. I don’t know if we want to relegate Cuddyer to the bench, though. I suspect Delmon will get more bench time than Cuddy when he comes back. But I agree with your assessment. This is potentially the deepest outfield this team has had since the days of Puck, Danny, Bruno, Country and Bushie. And it sure beats the crap out of the pathetic teams with two good outfielders and a bunch of scrubs.
sane -
“I am totally against giving Span a 5-year, $64 million dollar deal.
However I am very much in favor of playing him for the MLB minimum as long as he plays like he is currently playing or until Cuddyer AND Gomez AND Young can all out-perform him.”
Right now, Span is out-performing everyone on the team. Would you start him at DH over Morneau? Of course not. ( At least I hope not. )
Span is having a great stretch of games. There is no doubt about it. However, the odds are greatly in favor of him coming back to the player that he has shown to be in the minors. So, part of the game is guessing who is going to be better from here on out. And the odds are very good that Cuddyer, Young, and Kubel are all going to be better than Span over the course of the rest of the year.
Gomez, on the other hand, I’m not so sure about. He has no track record in the minors to go off of, and he has been pretty unspectacular in his play at the major league level.
I agree that Span should be playing until he shows he doesn’t belong. However, I don’t think it should be at the expense of others who have shown they do belong. So that leaves me to conclusion that you start Span over Gomez. Of course, I also want Gomez to be playing every day, so I send him to AAA.
Pete: Other factors include Beltre’s excellent defense at 3rd, and the relative scarcity of thirdbaseman vs right fielders. Beltre’s numbers are also hurt by playing at Safeco (check his road splits).
I would have no problem with the Twins paying Beltre $12M per year to play third. I don’t think in this day and age he’s badly overpaid.
it’s easy to ignore minor league stats because they don’t mean anything where he’s playing now. he is doing really well now let him get 150-200 ab’s and everyone will have a better idea what he can really do.
major league stats get you better paid, minor league stats mean nothing once you put the big league uniform on!
garrett jones hits lots of hr’s in aaa but can’t get it out of infield at the major league level (that was for bert).
“Now regarding Span, you can’t just ignore for convenience’s sake his AAA numbers this year: .340/.434/.481. If you want to talk about his minor league numbers, why are you ignoring his most recent 150+ ABs at that level?”
I don’t mean to give the impression that I am ignoring them. They have, however, came out of nowhere. His OPS is 237 points higher than last year. Only once during the 5 previous season in minor league ball did he end up with an OPS over .700, and now it’s up to .915? They don’t seem to be the norm for him.
Again, it is possible that he all of the sudden “got it”, and can continue hitting like he has. The odds are against it, however.
Who is Otnup Kcin? Is that the name we gave to the 2006 Punto?
Pete D,
“I agree that Span should be playing until he shows he doesn’t belong. However, I don’t think it should be at the expense of others who have shown they do belong.”
Unless Cuddyer can off the DL flying, Span’s playing time should be at his expense.
Cuddyer’s playing time should come solely from giving Young, Span and Gomez each one-day-week R&R, until Cuddyer is able to out-perform SOMEBODY, but not before that.
sane -
Here are the numbers of the Twins outfielders since June 1st.
Cuddyer - .291 / .385 / .481
Young - .328 / .352 / .484
Kubel - .316 / .407 / .621
Gomez - .231 / .268 / .295
Monroe - .149 / .259 / .362
Span - .467 / .590 / .700
We have 4 spots for these 6 players. Is it really that hard to see which ones should be playing? Span’s playing time should come from Carlos Gomez.
Howard,
I am on record as probably the biggest Denard Span basher in Minnesota. With the history he has shown in the past… he made that very easy.
However he is playing out of his mind this season, and it could very well be to the laser eye surgery he had, and as I’ve been screaming for the last year on here, LaVelle’s and Joe’s blog… OB% is HUGE! Span is playing like a legit future leadoff hitter. He deserves to be in the lineup with the way that he’s playing.
Hell as much as I get sick to my stomach watching Punterrible play… he deserves to be in the lineup… you have to play the hot hand when you haven’t got a legit SS on your roster.
Right now I would go with this line up.
RF Span
2B Casilla
CA Mauer
1B Morneau
LF Young*
DH Kubel
CF Gomez
3B Buscher
SS Punterrible
Punterrible has been playing well, and getting on base… so he makes a better 2nd leadoff man in the 9 hole than Gomez who has more pop in his bat, and could benefit from being lower in the lineup and being forced by Vavra to watch the pitcher pitch for an inning or two before he gets up to the plate to help him develop as a hitter.
Break up having 3 lefties in a row in the lineup by putting Delmon in the 5 slot. He has been swinging better…
I still would fine the idiot 10K an atbat that he swings at the first pitch… it’s so annoying that they should look at what the Braves did to Jeff Francquer (or however his name is spelled)
ckm,
I was trying to sneak a reference to you-know-who past the unconditional haters. I think we have ‘em fooled. 
Do you think Span’s drastic improvement this year is a direct result of having Lasiks? Maybe the better approach is just a result of being able to recognize pitches sooner. That sounds a little more plausible than him just getting “it”.
Havning four good OFs definitely is not going to hurt our chances, the real key to success for the rest of the season is road pitching. As of now we’re 10 games over .500 pretty much because we’ve had 8 more home games (32-18) than road games (19-23). So far, our pitching staff has given up 2+ more earned runs per game (3.35 v. 5.59) on the road yet our run production has been relatively flat (5RPF home v. 4.8RPG road). Not to mention our batting has improved each month (April:258/302/361 May:273/341/399 June:286/335/435) Road ERA is our tipping point (for the Malcolm Gladwell fans) to make a playoff run. Bring the road ERA down and we may win 90 games but keep with the 5+ ERA on the road and we may looking .500 in the eyes come October. What I don’t know is whether we need to make a move to bring in a pitcher or just work on focusing this young staff on the road trips.
Tony,
I use to have 14/18 vision which is very good. I threw a curve, it hung, and it hit me uner the left eye, and I have required glasses ever since… When I had that vision it was almost as if the ball was in slow motion, and once I came back from my eye injury it was as if a 75 mph fastball was 120 mph… so I really think that it’s the best explination as to why he is taking quality at bats like he is now.
When a player “gets it” they improve. What he’s done is become a completely different ball player… a completely different aproach… Remember Span is the guy that didn’t even know how to hold a freaking baseball bat properly when he was drafted by the Twins.
So “gets it” seems like an easy way out so it looks like you and I agree.
I realize that Bonds is an enigma in the clubhouse, but wouldn’t he provide a great threat to other teams as our DH or pinch hitter?
I bet at this point he would sign for minimum money…just a thought
I also want to throw in that I wasn’t very good with great vision… so it’s not like I was using myself as a baseball example, lol.
So that leaves me to conclusion that you start Span over Gomez. Of course, I also want Gomez to be playing every day, so I send him to AAA.
No. If you were paying attention on Wednesday, you might have noticed that a lot of balls off of Boston bats dropped in the outfield. Some of those drops came from Kubel and Young. But Span had a tough day out there not getting to balls that Gomez has in his hip pocket. That trapped ball comes to mind, but there were five or six lost outs because of Span’s range vs. Gomez. I would not favor having Gomez sit or go down for the sake of offense. Not on a team full of contact pitchers.
Completely agreed with Pete D. Gomez clearly doesn’t have the polish to be a starter on a team competing for the pennant. I understand completely why they brought him up to start the season as they didn’t figure to factor into the playoff race. They now find themselves in the thick of the race, and need to get more reliable production out of the leadoff spot. Time to re-evaluate.
…says:
You’re right on target. Pitching is key, and the stat’s you cite between road and home is impressive. Sign of inexperience? I dont know…..Guerrier, Bass, Reyes, Crain…they all have plenty of experience. Some of the starters, less so. But I’m not big on chalking up inconsitency to inexperience. If they decided to roll the dice, and make a play for Fuentes from Colorado, would that help this team? Maybe. I harbor some doubts about the advisability of rolling the dice this year. I’m not sure any one player is going to be a difference maker. The whole pitching staff, especially middle relief, needs to do better on the road.So I dont think demoting Bass is a good idea. We need the extra arm. Personallly, I think they need to bite the bullet on Lamb and see what Buscher can do the rest of the season. Then we can keep Span on either as a temp replacement for Gomez or as the 4th outfielder when Cuddyer gets back.
BC: Considering how much you loathed Span at the beginning of the year (does the word “FLUSH!” come to mind?)…the fact you’re willing to let up on him after a few weeks means you should probably let up on “Punterrible” (lol?).
The guy’s been contributing just as much for almost as long. I mean, I didn’t like the idea of him everyday as much as anybody else here (well, okay…maybe not to the point of wishing crippling career-ending injuries [Erik]…but still didn’t like it), but we as fans can’t ignore what he’s been doing the past few weeks just because he was a fun guy to blame all of 2007 on.
I figured it out: Otnup Kcin = Tonic Punk. Howard is using code to talk about some new band.
Gomez will not be sent to AAA. He’s the plan for center field in 2010, and they aren’t going to mess with his head over his most recent slump (and he’ll have more slumps, too). He’s just too young and too talented to mess with his head all because Span is playing out of his mind right now. And Span obviously deserves to stay. Oh, and not only will Cuddyer be back from injury, but so will Tolbert at some point. So, there are two roster spots that need to open for them. what to do, what to do……
Next stop for Cuddy is selling used cars in Tidewater.
Oh, and Young will stay full-time in outfield for same reason Gomez will: long-term plans of the franchise. Span will get his at-bats as spot fill-in for all three outfield spots and as running and/or defensive replacement late in ballgames. If, in this role, Span shows his recent play is for real, then the Twins will have more options this coming offseason.
PeteD,
“sane
Here are the numbers of the Twins outfielders since June 1st.
…
We have 4 spots for these 6 players. Is it really that hard to see which ones should be playing? Span’s playing time should come from Carlos Gomez.”
If you are assigning equal defensive value to Gomez and Monroe (or Gomez and Young or Gomez and Kubel or Gomez and Cuddyer) you are missing something.
If you are ignoring defensive value you are not giving Gomez his props.
rayreiner
Yeah, I’m not sure if it is the inexperience (e.g. Boof 9.13 & Livan 7.48 road ERAs) but I definitely think our otherwise talented staff is “off” on the road. Hopefully it’s a matter of focus which might improve if they change their routine a little. Worst case is their intimidated on the road, in that case they need a lesson from Mr. Morneau on how to stick it to the home team (e.g. 5-5 w1.5HR).
“Young will stay full-time in outfield for same reason Gomez will”
And because he has been crushing the ball the last two months.
malachy,
“He’s just too young and too talented to mess with his head”
So was Torii, Casilla, Span, Buscher, Slowey, Baker and thousands of others who had a cup of coffee in MLB, went back to the minors and then came back to stay.
I love Gomez, but if you don’t think his head is already “a bit of a mess” you don’t know many wide-eyed 22-yr-olds baseball players.
I WOULD LOVE TO HAVE BARY BONDS HERE!
malachy,
I am not advocating sending Gomez or Young to AAA, but their “heads” are not as fragile as you think.
And over-protection is also detrimental to their development.
i have to disagree with the punto earned the starting job. when he cam off the dl we had a 10 gm winning streak and were 13-3 when he got the starting ss job. when he got the job he had been 1-10 since his return.
he is made a full time starter based on 1-10 and gardy likes him, not because he earned it. we are 6-3 with him as the ss.
having said that he has been hitting very well and has looked like a different player.
I think a less pressure filled spot in the batting order wouldn’t hurt Gomez either. On days Span plays, maybe put Go-Go at 9, so he can see the pitcher through the course of the game and learn something. Plus Span’s current OBP is outstanding. It may not stay that way, but while he is hot, give him the at bats.
cmathewson and sane -
I’m not ignoring the defensive value of Gomez. However, I fear you two may be over exaggerating it. Gomez is averaging 3.3 put outs per 9 innings so far this year. How many of those do you really think are ones that Span wouldn’t get to? 1 every few games? 1 a week?
I think we can all agree that judging defense is tough. But I have no problem substituting Span in center field for Gomez. In my opinion, Gomez is not a good fielder - he is just fast. He seems to take terrible routes on balls, throws past cut off men, and makes other “mental” mistakes in the field. His speed allows him to cover up for some of those mistakes.
Would Span make those same mistakes? I don’t know. But with the way that Gomez is hitting right now, he is hurting the team - even with his defense.
i would think span leading off and gomez 9th until the all star break would be a logical try.
PeteD,
I will agree the Gomez-to-Span defensive comparison has some validity.
But
Monroe-to-Span/Gomez?
Kubel-to-Span/Gomez?
Young-to-Span/Gomez?
Cuddyer-to-Span/Gomez?
Any of those four can give up PT to Span or Gomez on defensive value alone.
Their offensive value, however, works in their favor.
sane -
Gomez can absolutely cover more ground than Kubel, Monroe, Young, and Cuddyer. But for that matter, I’m pretty sure Jason Pridie can as well. We aren’t going to call him up, however, to take over for one of the others.
I don’t want Kubel or Monroe to play much outfield. I think their place is DH - with Kubel getting the lion’s share of at bats. But Young, while not a very good fielder, can still cover a lot of ground, and does have 8 outfield assists. Cuddyer, while not as fast as the others, only has 1 error on the year, and 6 outfield assists from right.
I want Gomez to play every day. He has a ton of talent, and is the future center fielder for this squad. However, he isn’t hitting anywhere near good enough to justify leaving him up in the majors, when we are competing for a playoff spot and there are other - and better, in my opinion - options.
“BC Beneke says:
July 11th, 2008 at 1:26 pm
Howard,
I am on record as probably the biggest Denard Span basher in Minnesota.
However he is playing out of his mind this season…OB% is HUGE! Span is playing like a legit future leadoff hitter. He deserves to be in the lineup with the way that he’s playing.
…Punterrible play… he deserves to be in the lineup… you have to play the hot hand when you haven’t got a legit SS on your roster.”
Howard,
There is some imposter using BC Beneke’s moniker.
The imposter completely blew his cover by saying good things about Punto and Span. What a ridiculous security breach!
You would think an imposter would do a minimum of research into his subject.
Anyway, I thought I should bring it to your attention.
Your thanks is expected and you’re welcome.
As I was watching the Twins Squeeze Play on FSN I couldn’t help but notice how Gladden wrongly accuses Gomez of taking poor routes to the ball!
I, for one, think the Twins have benefitted from Cuddyer’s absence and am in no hurry to see him back in the lineup. I would like to see Span in left, moving Young over to right field where he played last year.
It was interesting to note that ESPN ran down the teams that are contending for the playoffs and named each team’s “Achille’s Heel”. ESPN said the TB Rays weakspot was lack of a right fielder, and this is what would keep them out of the playoffs.
WHAT!! GLICK Brewing guy never makes a mistake does he? ” Livan Hernandez throws out SPAN!!”
Gluek’s
WJ,
“ESPN said the TB Rays weakspot was lack of a right fielder, and this is what would keep them out of the playoffs.’
Did ESPN say what would keep the Red Sox and the Yanks out of the playoffs?
Oh, I forgot, that could NEVER HAPPEN in ESPN’s little world!
Nobody in the national broadcasting or advertising worlds wants to see a small market team like TB in the playoffs.
I thought it was an interesting comment, though. The Garza/Bartlett trade for Delmon Young is supposedly what has made TB into a playoff-caliber team, yet losing Delmon is what will keep them from holding off Boston and NY.
Walter,
i disagree. ESPN would love to see TB make it…. along with the Yanks/Sox and a 2nd cinderella
Dear Friends:
Bottom line is this team is built to win with solid pitching and defense, as it should be. They should not make a habit of sacrificing pitching/defense. I mean, if they knew in January what they know about this team now, would they make the Garza/Bartlett/Young trade? Maybe that trade looks better next year or 2010, but this team would be better this year if they had Garza in the rotation and Bartlett at short. Ergo, they should think long and hard before demoting Gomez, or scrubbing Punto at the first sign of a slump. They have defensive stability up the middle, which is covering up for defensive sins at 3b and the corner OF positions. Don’t mess with that part of the equation please. Any moves they make need to consider this question: Will this promotion, trade, line-up, whatever; will this help our pitching and defense get better? Everything else works off of that questiion.
WJ,
That’s why I hope the Rays (and the Twins) can shove it up their corporate –ses!!
“I, for one, think the Twins have benefitted from Cuddyer’s absence and am in no hurry to see him back in the lineup.”
How is that? The Twins are 7-5 since Cuddyer went on the DL, after going 13-2 in their previous 15 games. I’d like to hear what you think has gone better.
“but this team would be better this year if they had Garza in the rotation and Bartlett at short.”
Why do you say that? I assume that would mean a lot more of Monroe playing in left instead of Young, and Garza would take Blackburn’s spot in the rotation? How is that more beneficial to the Twins? Bartlett has been TERRIBLE at short this year for the Rays - both offensively and defensively.
The upgrade of Garza over someone like Perkins or Blackburn isn’t going to be enough to make up for the downgrade to Bartlett and Monroe.
I think this team is still just coming together. If the bullpen can hold up and the starters continue to improve, this will be a solid team, especially down the road. And so many young guys. Offensively, there are some problems with individuals, but as a whole, I can’t complain about it. We’ve scored 10 more runs than Chicago with 62 fewer HRs. Same number of RBIs. I think the HRs will improve (we now have one more homer than Toronto!).
me,
“I would trade Otnup Kcin”
Who the hell would want Otnup Kcin?
The Twins don’t want Otnup Kcin!
What that would mean is a place for Span. If he plays out the year here, he may end up with better power #’s than Young. Did we really expect to get a guy who is going to maybe finish at .290, with 6 or 7 HR’s, and is an adventure with every ball hit to him? Has anybody from the Twins brought up the Vlad Guerrero comparisons lately? Nope. As for Bartlett, the TB mgr loves him and the way he plays. Great story in the St Pete paper earlier this week on how highly Bartlett is valued for his play and intensity. It’s not all about stats! He’d be doing fine in this line-up, and I would prefer Bartlett to Punto, Everett, or Harris at SS. When we traded Garza, we traded our #2 guy at the same time we traded our #1 guy and lost our #3 guy in FA. The transition has gone OK, so far, but ask yourself if this team is better with Garza or Hernandez filling out the rotation? All I’m saying is that for this season, the Garza/Bartlett trade has hurt the Twins. They didnt expect to contend. If they did, would they do it all over again? I really really doubt it.
Don’t say bad things about LOK (Little Otnup Kcin).
Pete D.
I think the 7-5 mark is more due to bullpen meltdowns than Cuddyer being out of the lineup. He was on a little roll right before he got injured, and maybe he had turned things around. But when he does come back, how long will it take him to be comfortable. It took him a long time after his first injury this year. If he is back on the team, he will be in the lineup everyday, probably back in the five-hole, even if he’s not ready.
rayreiner,
“As for Bartlett, the TB mgr loves him and the way he plays.”
Sounds like Gardy talking about Gomez.
Who was the last MLB manager to bitch about the guy that the GM (his boss)traded for?
Sounds like a great plan for career advancement!
funny espn says the rays need a rf and mlb has guzzie possibly going to the rays because they need a ss that can hit.
Next stop for Cuddy is selling used cars in Tidewater.
I don’t think Cuddy is due for his next stop for a few years yet. But when he is, it will be Coom Dawg or Telly Hughes or somesuch who will be looking for a new job. Cuddy has “future TV personality” written all over him.
The Twins are 7-5 since Cuddyer went on the DL, after going 13-2 in their previous 15 games.
Three of the five losses were against the Red Sox. I think the step up in competition from AAAA (aka the NL and the injury-plagued Tribe) to the Beantowners is a factor.
WEll, Gardy isnt exactly effusive in backing DY. It’s not that I’m trying to bash DY either. He does some things really well for such a young guy. Most “power” guys dont hit to the opposite field. So, I have to give DY some love for the subtleties of his approach. But nobody is picking up the Vlad comparisons anymore, because they realize that what they have in DY is another sortof-toolsy OF, with power POTENTIAL, and defensive liabilities, who is a ways off from delivering on that power potential. What they gave up for the right to develop DY’s potential was infield stability and starting pitching depth….two invaluable commodities. If this was a rebuild year, than it’s a trade that gets evaluated in 3 years time. But the team is on the cusp, and what they have needed and will need later on are two pieces they shipped to TB.
If Little Otnup Kcin keeps it going and the pitching holds up, the Twins will be playing well into LOKtober this year.
Pos Player HR RBI AVG
CF Gomez, Carlos 5 31 .260
2B Casilla, Alexi 4 36 .306
C Mauer, Joe 4 39 .328
1B Morneau, Justin 14 68 .324
DH Kubel, Jason 13 44 .268
LF Young, Delmon 3 35 .288
3B Buscher, Brian 1 17 .306
SS Punto, Nick 1 16 .320
RF Span, Denard 0 7 .361
P Perkins, Glen (5-2, 4.27)
from the trib
gobble,
Six .300+ hitters and Delmon at .288 and rising.
Hmmmmmmm.
boy would beltre drag that down with his.256 but the 16 hr and 46 rbi would be ok.
“Three of the five losses were against the Red Sox. I think the step up in competition from AAAA (aka the NL and the injury-plagued Tribe) to the Beantowners is a factor.”
And two of those losses were by 1 run. Does Cuddyer make the difference there? I don’t know. But with the way he was hitting, it sure didn’t help to have him out of the lineup.
Of course playing Boston in Boston is tougher than playing the Padres in San Diego. Cuddyer had been hitting well for a month or so when he went down. He’s a good hitter who had a bad month.
Was Cuddyer hitting better than Span has since?
Doubtful.
yeah, i think michael cuddyer belongs in the starting lineup. good point that winning teams have guys on bench who could be starting elsewhere.
sane -
“Was Cuddyer hitting better than Span has since?
Doubtful.”
No chance. Span has been on fire. However, he is batting in the 9 hole most of the time. Cuddyer would have been in the 5 hole. Cuddyer is also a right handed bat, while Span is a lefty.
Does that make a difference? I have no idea. Does Cuddyer play better defense than Span has? Perhaps. There were some balls that Span got to, but there were some bad plays he made as well.
As it is, I don’t think this team is better off since Cuddyer went down. If Span replaced Gomez, then I think it would be.
“Howard,
There is some imposter using BC Beneke’s moniker.The imposter completely blew his cover by saying good things about Punto and Span.”
sane,I’d don’t care who you are, that’s funny!
BC, I love the fact that you found kind things to say about Span and Punto. I’m glad that your previous pleas to keep these two inept players out of the lineup were not heard by the Twins. Neither are likely to be as good as they have been lately forever, but they’re nowhere near as bad as you made them out to be earlier this year. Now, if you drop using the Punterrible name I’ll know you’re really coming around!But at least you have the courage to acknowledge them now!
Finally, a I know that a big portion of the blogs is speculation with regards to trades, etc. and I’m good with that. However, with the potential “log jam” that may exist in the Twins outfield, I think the Twins should employ the old Bud Grant rule; “make no personnel decsions before you have to”.
Fran:
Keeping min mind a number of those games were against such “washed up losers” as Randy Johnson, Brandon Webb, Jake Peavy, Greg Maddux, Trevor Hoffman, Ben Sheets, and Cliff Lee.
when he got the starting ss job. when he got the job he had been 1-10 since his return.
Kinda hard to earn playing time through performance if never given a chance to perform now isn’t it?
Span is not a great fielder and has a weak arm you can’t leave him in RF on a full time basis. Yes he is hot now, but lets see how he does over a longer stretch of time. I am not saying he isn’t any good I’m just saying he is not a RF. Also Span has little power and nobody and I mean noboby is saying he will ever have good power. Cuddy at least can challenge 20 HRs per year. So my take is leave Span up in the majors and evaluate him but by no means try to plug him in as a starter until he earns it.
I have been a big Gomez supporter, but it is time for him to take a break. I worry about what it is going to do to his confidence by taking him out of the lineup or batting him ninth;however, his confidence is taking a beating the way he is going and he is hurting us badly.
ginacorrina,
“I worry about what it is going to do to his confidence by taking him out of the lineup or batting him ninth;however, his confidence is taking a beating the way he is going and he is hurting us badly.”
What if Gardy keeps Gomez playing and leading off every game even though he is struggling?
What will it do to his confidence if (when?) the fans turn on him for playing because he “must be” Gardy’s (new) “little buddy”.
Its a real danger if Gardy won’t react to his struggles by giving him a break.
I believe it is Otnup Kcin Elttil
On Gomez to AAA: He really has one huge hole in his game–recognizing and laying off the outside-and-low slider with two strikes. Almost all of his strikeouts this year have come on that pitch. But I don’t think he’ll learn how to make that adjustment in the minors. Very few pitchers in AAA can throw the slider exactly where they want to. But guys like Gallaraga yesterday can paint with it. So he has to learn to make that adjustment at the major league level.
He might learn from the dugout once in a while. And he might also learn quicker if he hits from the nine hole cause he’ll be able to watch the pitcher throw to the first eight guys before needing to face him. But he isn’t likely to learn in the minors.
As to his confidence: I think he knows what he needs to do. He even said as much after the game against Cliff Lee: “He can throw me four sliders in a row and I won’t yell at him. He’s just doing his job.” The implication is he knows he struggles with the slider. And he will eventually learn. We just need to be patient. And we need to minimize the impact of his hole by hitting him ninth and play the hot hand (Span) in the lead-off spot.
Pete D. Defense is the hardest thing to reach consensus on. I doubt I will convince you with facts such as Gomez leading the league in Zone Rating if you don’t already believe that Zone Rating is the best stat we have. But let me correct your misconception that Gomez is just fast but has no other defensive skill. Whether he takes different routes on balls than, say, Torii Hunter or not, he gets to more balls than Hunter ever did. Hunter was relatively poor on the shallow flies, for example, because he typically played deep like his mentor, Kirby Puckett. Gomez plays medium deep and so gets to both deep and shallow fly balls. I don’t care about his routes on balls as long as he catches it.
Incidentally, it’s one of the things I hate about Dan Gladden. When he calls play-by-play, he focuses on the jump or the route an outfielder takes (esp. Gomez and Young). He almost seems disappointed when they catch the ball despite an non-optimal read on a ball. Thing is, it’s easy to get a read on the ball from the booth. It’s much harder to get a read on the ball from the field. Hunter was great at this. Others are less so. But who cares whether a guy reads it perfectly as long as he catches it?
