Morneau’s metaphorical triumph
Posted on July 15th, 2008 – 9:02 AMBy Howard
The All-Star Game’s Home-Run Derby typically degenerates into a dull, repetitive and contrived contest described by TV windbags who often are trying to make something out of nothing — or, generously, very much out of very little.
Last night was different. In part, that was because hometown boy “Jason” Morneau won the thing and in part because of the incredible performance in the first round by Josh Hamilton, whose story of redemption combined with his self-acknowledged 24/7 struggle to remain sober is almost as stirring as a 500-foot home run (and certainly more meaningful). Here’s a link to Albert Chen’s fine story about Hamilton that was in Sports Illustrated last month.
My understanding is that the State Farm guy who presented the oversized check to Morneau afterward is a regular reader of this blog, and is a big fan of our frequent commenter Jason — therefore making his stumble understandable.
Morneau’s victory was a metaphor for the Twins’ season so far.
How so?
Simple: It’s not how many home runs you hit, it’s when you hit ‘em.
Similarly, I’ll take Joe Mauer’s .322 and five homers over Jhonny Peralta’s .261 and 16 or Adam Dunn’s .228 and 26.
Sure, I’d like to have both — a three-run homer makes life easier for all connected with it — but sheer power isn’t the be all of baseball as much as when you get your big hits. That Morneau can stroke a double into the left-center gap makes for a complete package with the upper deck shots to right.
And, that being said, you can be sure I’ll be at the Dome early this weekend to watch Hamilton take batting practice.
other people are here too
150 Responses to "Morneau’s metaphorical triumph"
Josh Hamilton is a drug abuser. It’s such a typical and cliche story of an overinflated ego, and since it’s the story of a poor person raising up and becoming something, baseball fans (other poor people) give him chance after chance, because they like to pretend if he can do, so can they, or their children. Don’t give people like George Bush a 2nd chance. I mean, it’s not like tripling the US economy in the span of 7 years was as big a deal as not smoking crack anymore.
There is general acceptance that President Bush abused recreational drugs, and by his own admission, he was an alcoholic.
Your comments are totally inapporiate and suggest to me you have a mirror to look into. Drug addiction is a medical condition.
The story of Josh Hamilton’s addiction isn’t over. It will never be over. I wish him the very best and believe his is a truly remarkable story of effort and redemption.
My recommendation is that you look into your cabinet for the bottle of pills called “Minnesota Nice” and take a few.
- T-Mouse, in da house
“The story of Josh Hamilton’s addiction isn’t over. It will never be over. I wish him the very best and believe his is a truly remarkable story of effort and redemption.”
Amen!
Did you just try to compare George Bush to Josh Hamilton? Thanks for trying that was the worst analogy possible. Just don’t bother next time please.
I respect Josh Hamilton. I really hate when people belittle the guy for the past drug use. We should give him credit for overcoming his condition, but at the same time don’t praise him too much, as he’s the only one to blame. However, he’s willing to admit the mistake and the constant struggle. He owns up to his mistakes, and for that reason we should respect and tell his story.
Anywho, onto baseball stuff. Morneau had the look of a drunk groomsman who stole the show on the dance floor. I loved that it became the Josh Hamilton show, only for Morneau to be the one standing at the end. Great stuff. That’s Twins baseball right there.
George W, tripling the economy in 7 years.
Funny….very, very funny
I am happy for Justin, I only wish that he would get just a tiny bit of credit for winning the thing. It’s nice when a guy who admits that he would like to be in the homerun derby actually gets invited when all of the A-listers decline and wins the thing.
Josh Hamilton is a great story and really hit well last night. You can’t help but be happy for him too.
Now if our Jason can only get a hit or two tonight!
So typical of American society today - ignore success and celebrate dysfunction. While I respect Josh Hamilton to a point for having the wherewithal to battle his addiction, Justin Morneau won the Home Run Derby and has never had a problem (as far as anyone knows) with drug/alcohol abuse. Yet, the one celebrated is the one with the dysfunction. Something is seriously wrong with America.
Since dealing with politics in one form or another fills a good portion of my work week, I’d really like to avoid having my favorite “distraction” (this blog) fall in to the abyss that is amateur politicial commentary.
I agree with Howard on the metaphor for the Twins’ season. Even beyond the basic “not how many but when” analogy. Last night we saw the “great story” make a big splash and get all the media/fan attention (see: Rays first 3 months) while the Twin did just enough to stay in the game and in the end, when the “great story” guy tired and faded, the Twin had enough left in the tank to win the contest. Let’s hope that metaphor plays out out through the end of the season. (It would also be nice if, rather than ruining Doc’s swing, the contest actually allowed him to find his HR stroke and he jacks about 25 the second half of the season.)
Of course, I personally think Hamilton flat wore down that poor old BP pitcher he brought along with him. Wonder how long it’s been since he threw 70-80 BP pitches in an evening. I’m 20 years his junior and I’d probably be unable to lift my arm this morning if that had been me.
Cicero, with all due respect, I think the one celebrated is also because he hit 28 balls out of the park in the first round while Justin hit 8. Just sayin.
Yes, tripling the US debt, er, economy was indeed a feat no other president has done. But I presume this is a baseball blog. I keep wondering if the Twins could have sent the Reds Garza and gotten Hamilton. Oh well. Kind of like that prom date in who had to find another ride home because I was passed out on the bed. No use wondering what might have been when I see her at the reunion with her husband and three kids.
Alright losers, back to baseball.
Maybe Morneau and Hamilton can have another contest when the Rangers are in town during BP. Maybe the Hefty Bag will keep some of those moon shots in the park.
Relax people, Plymouth was ranked the best small city in the country by cnn money. See they do like us they really really like us!!!
cmath, don’t be silly. The Twins never could have gotten Hamilton because they and the Reds have no history of making trades. Oh… wait a minute. Never mind. Too bad we were looking for a RIGHT handed OF instead of a lefty, huh?
As is, that trade between Texas and Cincy is pretty remarkable. Amounts to what are very probably the leading AL MVP candidate for the leading NL Cy Young candidate. Pretty much the definition of a win-win deal.
“Maybe the Hefty Bag will keep some of those moon shots in the park.”
I must have missed the announcement that the Twins have raised the baggy in RF to be 200 feet high. 
That coverage was unbelievable. During Morneau’s first round, they interviewed Josh Hamilton the whole time. During Morneau’s second round, they talked about Reggie Jackson the whole time. During the final, they said Morneau didn’t have a chance. After Morneau won, they pushed him out of the way and interviewed Hamilton! Not to mention the racist remark explaining why Morneau shouldn’t even be in the derby. And the sulking commentators at the end saying, “Nobody will remember Morneau” and “Josh bought dinner, but Morneau got to kiss the girl.” Morneau put in a solid performance and people always will remember the winner.
Morneau got upstaged because Hamilton set a record for hitting moonshots in the 1st round!! it’s a glorified T-ball contest who cares!! stop with the “MN sport inferiority complex” ESPN MLB writers love the Twins Tim K. just wrote a glowering article about the Twins.. move on!
Whether it was Morneau or anyone else in the derby ESPN would have had the same response. It is not an anti-Morneau scenario. It would have been the same no matter who else would have won it.
“it’s a glorified T-ball contest who cares!!”
Very well said. While I’m happy that Morneau won and I agree with Howard’s comments, there’s no need to take this thing so seriously (or personally).
Joe Morgan, Rick Reilly, Steve Phillips and Chris Berman. That’s gotta be the biggest bunch of jackasses ever assembled for a single broadcast in the history of sports.
Kind of fitting W used to be part owner of the Rangers and I think he meant to say “crippling”!
“Don’t give people like George Bush a 2nd chance. I mean, it’s not like tripling the US economy in the span of 7 years was as big a deal as not smoking crack anymore.”
All,
The one time I shut down a discussion thread here was when it turned to politics. I’d like not to do it again. Your cooperation is appreciated.
Howard
“it’s a glorified T-ball contest who cares!!”
Exactly, can we get rid of it? Nobody wants to be in it, and then when 8 “white” boys show up to participate then it’s sad that nobody of “color” is in the HR contest, so it’s not really a contest anymore? please… can we just give the teams 3 days off and not have an all-star anything? It’s a popularity contest, like voting your best friend to be homecoming king…
Can we move on to how the Twins will sustain a playoff run, even with the odds stacked against them?!
Just read JoeC’s article that mentioned the Tigers owner inviting Justin, Joe and Joe to fly to NY from Detroit on his private plane with Leyland and Guillen. Pretty classy on the Tigers’ part, I think.
so should the twins make a trade for some help, stand pat or wait until next year?
imo we do what it takes to get beltre and street, going to cost a lot, but there are no super teams and with those players we could make a long run. we’d have both players next yr and could get prospects back next yr if we’re out of it in 09.
dump livan and bring up liriano.
Leyland probably thought it was a fair gesture for not pitching to Justin for the rest of the series!
What is wrong with celebrating the “prodigal son,” who returns with repentance and donates time to work with kids and society to ensure others do not tread on the same path he did. Josh H deserves support and our society needs a positive example in the midst of all the negativity and cynical attitudes. I, for one, stand up and applaud this healing young man and hope you do likewise. As for “Jason,” the State Farm man who is a fan was a bit nervous and slipped, no doubt - how embarrassing. Kudos to JUSTIN and the Twins and to America in general!
Honestly, I dont see them trading for any help… I mean, the last time we did it was Shannon Stewart.. it just doesn’t happen especially w/ our front office - despite it being a new GM, I still dont see it happening… the best moves to be made is to cut bait on a few guys and handle things internally… as much as I like Beltre and think he’s a HUGE upgrade at 3B, I dont see us spending the money to get him… (Just think if we hadn’t wasted the cash on Livan, Everett, and Monroe!) Bass has to go… Livan should be replaced by Liriano, but I dont see it, I dont think they dump him or move him… which is the Twins being stubborn as usual…
Justin Morneau. Home Run Derby Champ. That’s all that matters right?
A’s will not give up Street for a song they scout other teams as well as the Twins do and they want premium players - we do not have what it takes to pry him away
Beltre could work, Mariners are messed up enough to trade their 1 good hitter
Look up Beltre and see where and when he gets hits and especially HRs - it’s not how many, it’s when.
I lost ALL of what little respect I had left for the ESPN commentators after their ignoring and belittling of Morneau’s presence in the Derby after whoever’s:
‘Its a bad day to be an atheist’ comment during Hamilton’s second round.
ludicrous.
Ya, Hamilton’s story is nice, he turned his life around from a bad addiction he admits he still battles and takes a baby sitter with him everywhere he goes to keep an eye on him, but any ‘good’ human being would never put himself in that position, especially one who’s been handed a silver spoon for life by being the #1 overall pick in the draft.
And I’ll take a Morneau and his graciousness that embodies the Twins organization for a role model over a recovering Heroin addict any day of the week, no matter what he’s done or is doing to change his life.
And I also believe Justin Morneau deserves a LOT more respect than Josh Hamilton as a baseball player at this point in their careers, and Justin got ZERO respect last night.
Granted, Hamilton’s display was borderline superhero, but the rest of the event and players were IGNORED for the rest of the show. POOR POOR and BIASED broadcast by ESPN.
he has more HRs then Morneau pretty sure he is better then Buscher/Punto/Harris
MarkW - it really won’t cost us that much this year to pick up Beltre, over half the season has been played which means over half his salary has already been paid this year, and it is not uncommon for a team in Seattles position relating to this to eat more or all of this years salary.
And he won a GOLD GLOVE last year….
TNGuy: That may be true (about the salary) but we’ll have to pay him next year and then he’ll be due a contract, do you pay him Morneau money then for 4+ years? I dont know that the Twins will (based on our past signings)… and I do think he’ll be looking for that type of money, $14-15M per year, he is 30 yrs old next year too… he could be a cheap guy to get for the remaining of the season, but again, I dont see us “renting” a guy and then not having a plan for him…
If they trade for Beltre its about THIS YEAR. Next year would be a bonus, we’d still have a lower Salary than last years team with that added.
And if he performs awesome, Why not try to keep him after that? we’ve been missing a good hitting(and fielding) 3B since Koskie left…
It’d be pretty much the same situation as Torii Hunter had. That worked out okay don’t you think?
I guess I’m saying I’d have no problem with ‘renting’ him.
As for a trade, he has a limited no-trade clause in his contract, 8 teams he can say no to, one is San Diego, but who knows about the others… he’s due $12M next year (which is reasonable, but like I said, then what?)
His Agent = Scott Boras.
Right, I agree with what we SHOULD probably try to do, but I’m just saying they WONT do it, based on what they’ve shown and how they spend money… I’d be okay with renting him and having him in 2009 as well and then letting him go even (sure that leaves a big hole in 2010, but who knows w/ the draft and other FAs, maybe you can find something else)… I just say its highly unlikely that the Twins make a move for him… regardless of need for this year.
Hell even Morneau graciously admitted “it was all about Josh tonight” when Erin Andrews finally got around to interviewing him.The HR contest is a made for TV event,don’t put to much stock in what happens or is said.
I say when you have a chance to win it all, you go for it. Unless you are the Red Sox, you only get so many chances. Imagine if the Twins had gotten a real DH in the early part of this decade. They’d have at least on WS championship, I believe. Hopefully they’ve learned from their overly conservative ways….
then what? - I don’t know. By that time maybe Luke Hughes would be in position to take over.
I think its a trade they should seriously consider, but then I don’t know the type of player Seattle is looking for in a trade either. I would doubt they would want a struggling MLB SP (Livan) from us due to their Silva debacle.
And I personally don’t think Livan still has a place on this team.
If Liriano continues his dominance like in his last 3 starts though, he’s gotta come up. Word is he’s hitting 96 MPH on the gun and the slider is again a ‘plus’ pitch, not ‘06 plus, but very good, and his changeup is even more devastating than Santana’s was.
if they get beltre and don’t re-sign him after 09 he would have good enough #’s to be a type “a” free agent like torii and get us 2 1st round picks back which wouldn’t be so bad we could pick up a couple control pitchers or toolsie position players. no homerum guys!!
crap, that should have read
‘I personally think livan still has a place on this team.’
take out the don’t…
We’ll give them Lamb for Beltre, straight up. That is a perfectly fair trade. Lamb will light it up in Seattle. Their fans will love him.
Well I was wondering where you were going with this when I read the headline.
I am VERY happy you didn’t go with the “Media screwed us over by making Hamilton the story”.
Hamilton was the story, there can be no doubt about it. “Jason” Morneau won the thing fair and square (I can’t begin to tell you how insulting that is when folks do that–I get referred to as ‘Justin’ often in life, and although Justin Morneau is my favorite Twin, that is really annoying), but Hamilton clearly ruled the night.
He was the story before the competition, during the competition, and after the competition. There should be no complaints about the fact that the media handled it that way. People watch this exhibition to see a guy hit bomb after bomb…which is exactly what Hamilton provided. The fact that he happened to have 95 RBI heading into the All-Star break and have this amazing life transformation to go along with it, made for the only truly compelling story among the 8 competitors.
Now having said all that, I will say I’m proud of “Justin” Morneau in that he handled everything beautifully–he understood what was happening that night and was even seen cheering for Hamilton. However, he accepted the trophy graciously and made it clear that it was important to him, which I also think was cool. I was cheering him on hard the entire way…unlike the 50,000 plus at Yankee Stadium.
One critique about the broadcast…Rick Reilly embarrassed himself by proclaiming at the outset by questioning whether or not Morneau even deserved to be part of the competition (as a late entrant), particularly in light of the fact that there was no black or hispanic (psst, Rick, it’s Latino) in the field. Then, when he had the opportunity to acknowledge the egg on his face during the commentators’ closing comments, he conveniently avoided the issue.
Best stick to writing, Rick.
Morneau proved once again that he’s the closest thing this franchise has seen to Kirby Puckett since Puck retired abruptly in 1995. Way to go, Justin!
Regardless of Hamiltons past what he did last night was incredible. He made hitting 500ft HR’s look effortless while Justin did not.
I think they should consider it as well… what to give up, probably some pitching prospects which we have and will always have… I dont think they want Lamb
… I think Livan has a place too, in the bullpen only to be seen in 7+ run games.. eat innings that way.
GGguy - you are right, he SHOULD be a type A free agent, getting us 2 picks in the draft, i’d be just fine w/ that instead of paying a 30 yr old that kind of money (which was the issue w/ Hunter and what I feel was wrong about signing Cuddyer)
Also, last night was an excellent lesson in why CEO’s of corporate sponsors should not be allowed near a television microphone. We see it all the time…and it never, ever provides anything substantive. You already have your corporate name awkwardly and artificially spread throughout the proceedings…there’s no need to further poison the event by having some desk nerd who doesn’t have a clue about baseball tell the world that his company is proud of the champion, whose name he doesn’t even know.
Embarrassing, awful, unacceptable. Note to TV execs: Get rid of that garbage. No one wants to see that guy.
State Farm sponsored the event.
The guy probably just stumbled over the name of a guy that he just learned had won the HR contest.
Like I do everytime I am introduced to someone new, and then I run into them two minutes later at the same party.
I have no problem with the Hamilton story, but let’s give him some time, before we start exalting him. He’s not Steve Palermo, Jim Abbott or Mike Utley. He brought this on himself. Let’s not talk about a Canadian kid who grew up playing hockey, and turned himself into a heck of a baseball player (let’s not even talk about him at all when he’s batting.) Once again, I respect Hamilton for everything that he’s overcome. He could be the next Cris Carter. He could also be the next Steve Howe or Daryl Strawberry.
Beltre would be a 1.5 year rental, till Valencia is ready. As far as $ for his contract goes, this year the Twins are about $15-20 mil under budget and next yearm Livan, Rincon, Everett, Monroe and (hopefully) Punto would be off the books, which adds up to about $16 mil that would be enough to cover Beltre’s salary next year and leave about $4 mil for the arbitration cases…
what would it take to bring him to the Twin cities? By looking at couple of similar trades of highly rated batters who were owed a decent amount of $ (Alomar to the Mets from Cleveland and Abreu to the Yankees from Philly) not that much. Given that the Mariners have no 3B real prospects higher than A ball, Buscher or Macri would probably be gone. Given that the Mariners need starting pitching and that Bonser failed in the TC, weight loss and all, but he is a decent pitcher who could benefit from a scenery change, he could be wanted by the Mariners. Add another prospect who is wasting 40 man roster space (take your pick from: DePaula, Humber, Mijares, Sergio Santos) and should probably be enough if the Twins are (and should be) willing to pay Beltre’s contract.
Thing with Livan is about 1 of 3 starts he absoulutely baffles a team.
The other 2 he struggles but still manages to keep us in the game some how.
And I do think there is something to be said about the veteran presence he has provided for Baker, Blackburn, Perkins and Slowey. They rave about him and how he helps. I honestly believe they would not be the same staff without him.
Liriano should be called up, but I don’t know what you do with the Rotation then, and I can’t see the logic in waiting til rosters expand to get Liriano up here, He has, to quote one opposing manager in AAA, ‘Absolutely dominated’ in his last 3 starts.
Another manager said this about his fastball, slider, change combo:
“It’s a lethal mix,” Terry Lovullo said. (manager of Buffalo Bisons)
He also said “When hes right like this, hes a major leaguer”
Liriano, the International League Pitcher of the Week, is 7-0 in his last eight starts and has a 21 1/3 scoreless innings streak with 24 strikouts to only 3 walks in that span.
Here is the thing that bothers me about Livan:
If the Twins make it to the postseason and Livan is still with the team, knowing Gardy’s tendencies, it is almost guaranteed that he will be pitching at least 2 games every series…
not good
Howard just referred to mike lamb as a “very fine 25th man on the bench.”
Thrylos98: Agree on the Livan assumption, he’ll be almost for certain given the ball in Game 1 of the first series… not good at all… At best, he’s a 5th starter or spot starter in long road trips… I dont trust him to continue the “luck” of keeping us in games… it’s just not likely he’ll contribute to the team (other than veteran presence on the mound) which may or may not have benefited the rest of the young starters, but still… you can’t have someone on your staff with those numbers.
With all that being said, i still think he stays and we dont see Liriano (if we do, Perkins will probably be sent back down or to the bullpen - as Bass should get released)
Beltre trade: I can see Macri being a piece, but not Buscher (no real value there for the Mariners) Macri, Humber/Mulvey, Depaula, something like that, possibly a draft pick as well..
so sane, you’re saying the SF exec spent that two minutes slamming down shots of tequila before having to remember Justin’s name? (just kiddin!)
You aren’t going to rid tv sports of the sponsor execs handing out checks and trophies until you get rid of corporate sponsorships. And that’s going to happen… well… never.
I was amazed by Hamilton’s performance like everyone else was. Anyone who watched and says they didn’t realize he was the star of the night, is lying. His performance alone was enough to warrant that spotlight. His story just magnifies it. I also have no qualms whatsoever with his statement of faith because it clearly is something he feels is critical to his ability to get and stay sober and have the second chance he’s got. It was not artificial or contrived.
I’m VERY proud of Justin Morneau and the way he not only performed with the bat, but conducted himself before, during and after the event. Everything he did came across with competence, humility and class.
Finally, ESPN is what it is… a business that markets sports programming, with an emphasis on “business”. Of course they are going to play to their biggest markets and of course they are going to latch on to whoever is the biggest story that arises from a made-for-TV event. To expect otherwise is pointless.
Regarding possible trades… I agree that making a “big” deal would be quite un-Twinslike. But there are two major differences this year that make it worth at least having some fun speculating about what could be done. First, it’s Bill Smith calling the shots instead of Terry Ryan. Say what you will about some of his offseason moves, but he was far more active in the offseason than TR had been known for being. Maybe he’ll step outside the TR mold at midseason, too.
Second, much of the Twins lack of midseason activity in the past has been a result of being fiscally limited. This year, the salary levels at the start of the season were something like $20 million below “allowable budget”. That theoretically gives Smith a lot more flexibility than TR had.
The fact that they’re even TALKING to Seattle about Beltre is evidence that Smith is feeling financially constrained.
sorry.. lost a “not” in that last sentence. s/b “The fact that they’re even TALKING to Seattle about Beltre is evidence that Smith is NOT feeling financially constrained.”
JiomCrikket,
“so sane, you’re saying the SF exec spent that two minutes slamming down shots of tequila before having to remember Justin’s name?”
I am saying that the State Farm exec picked up his 9th DUI driving home from the Stadium, but his rates DID NOT GO UP!!!
JCrik: I agree there may be a different “feel” in the front office w/out Terry Ryan, but let’s not forget that he is still there (as a scout) but I wouldn’t doubt they still ask him for his opinion, even though Bill Smith is the one calling the shots… it is nice that there are “talks” going on w/ Seattle and that we can speculate on the possibility…
As the payroll goes, we are about $14.5M under what we were last year.. and if I add up all the useless contracts we are paying, you’ll being to pull your hair out… starting with… Juan Rincon $2.475M (granted we got almost a half season worth, but not for what we paid him)
that should read “BEGIN” to pull your hair out…
my bad.
Sane: funny stuff!
See:
*Senior Advisor to the GM Terry Ryan
Howard… biggest disappointment? Delmon?
Interesting,
-Twins shopping Hernandez?
It will be interesting whether the Twins try to package Michael Cuddyer and Livan Hernandez in a trade for a slugging third baseman before the July 31 deadline, saving $20 million in guaranteed money to Cuddyer and $2.5 million to Hernandez. Denard Span ($390,000) would replace Cuddyer in right field, and Francisco Liriano ($400,000) would replace Hernandez in the starting rotation. One problem, though: finding a team willing to take on the salaries. The Twins say they haven’t had room for Liriano in the starting rotation. (St. Paul Pioneer Press)
Salaries: I couldn’t resist… but since we are on the subject…
Livan H. 1yr/$5M, plus $2M bonuses (which I believe is “innings pitched”, why should we pay someone a bonus for doing what they were brought here to do = EAT innings?? it’s like paying CC Fatbathia $1000 if he can eat a package of OREOS!! cripes…)
C. Monroe - 1yr/$3.82M (ouch, brought in to hit lefties… my niece could do a better job, she’s 4.)
Lamb - 2yrs/$6.6M, paying him $3.5M this season… tough one to swallow as we all thought he would be better than Buscher, Macri, or Punto at 3B… hasn’t worked out…
Everett - 1yr/$2.8M, again an okay signing, but he failed and now is injured, time to release…
Punto - 2yr/$4.2M (getting $2.4M this season) I know there are some Punto fans (I’m not one) but he’s been “avg” for a bench player, I just hope we dont resign him after this year when other players can do the same for about 1/8th the money. (heck, pay me $2M to slide into first base…grrr…)
So what is that? $17.52M w/out Livan’s bonus, almost $20M with it.. which he’ll most likely get… and if we take out Punto’s contract even, that’s still $17.12M… u could also throw in the rest of Rincon’s salary we are eating right now…
So if you are looking for a reason why the Twins won’t sign Beltre, look no further than the above wasted contracts for this current season…
MarkW, if they’re $14.5M under last year and you add in another $5-6M that they had talked about allowing payroll to increase, you get $20Mish of room to play with.
Yes there are some buried costs (Rincon… maybe even some combination of Lamb/Everett/Monroe/Hernandez). But fortunately this is one year (perhaps the only year in recent memory) where they can afford to write off those bad investments and still take on additional payroll at midseason.
Certainly Ryan is still involved in discussions and he’s obviously helping with scouting. To me, that’s great! But Smith is the one making the decision whether to take a chance or not… spend money or not… and while it’s pretty early to judge fairly, he doesn’t seem to be as risk averse as TR was… AND he’s got money to play with, which Ryan seldom had the luxury of.
sane… so now you’re saying that State Farm exec has his insurance with Allstate? wow.
this is from cot’s baseball contracts site:
Carl Pohlad bought the Twins for $44M in 1984.
Forbes magazine valued the club at $328M in April, 2008.
Opening Day payrolls for 25-man roster
(salaries plus pro-rated signing bonuses):
2008: $ 56,932,766
2007: $ 71,439,500
2006: $ 63,396,006
2005: $ 56,186,000
2004: $ 53,585,000
2003: $ 55,505,000
2002: $ 40,225,000
2001: $ 24,130,000
2000: $ 15,700,000
2008 payroll obligations for former players:
$ 2,475,000 (Juan Rincon)
JimC: yep, i agree, again, I think the possibility is more so than in years prior (when TR was in charge) and I hope they are more active, even if it’s getting an arm for the bullpen.. I’m just hesitant to say they will throw $12M a yr at another guy in the middle of the season… it’ll be interesting to monitor though…
TNG: is that a good source from the Press?
I dont mind them getting whatever they could for Livan, as we have an obvious replacement…
I took that from SI.com’s MLB trade talk link on the homepage, I don’t read the ‘press’ so I don’t know if its a good source.
But I could see Cuddyer being a piece in a trade, even after investing that money in him…
Gotchya… I just checked MLB trade rumors, nothing was on there, so I just wonder where it originated… either way, I think they SHOULD be shopping Livan… with or without Cuddyer, but yeah, what team is going to take on those contracts? the Giants!? who else makes bad decisions… ?
What does comparing Mauer to Jhonny Peralta’s numbers mean? I’m missing the point here Howard! That’s like apples and oranges? Comparing a shortstop’s numbers vs. a catcher? WHY?!
PLUS you would rather have a .323 hitter with 5 home runs vs. guy who has 26 SO FAR?! Mauer’s great, but I’m guessing 26 HR’s win more ball games. Unles his name’s Ichiro, I’ll take the 26 dingers!
Mark - heres the link, 3rd story down.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/baseball/mlb/07/15/trade.talk/index.html
Did SI skim that Cuddyer/Hernandez rumor from a Shooter column? Any GM who would trade “a slugging third baseman” for Livan and Cuddyer should lose his job.
I see, thanks for the link…
I find it hard to believe they would shop Cuddyer (not only his injury this year) but his contract is fairly large for a subpar performance this season… and not a great one last season…
I’m on board w/ dumping Livan on whomever will take him!
Livian Hernandez contract isn’t a problem for a contender because it’s one year. The question is if someone wants him? The answer is probably if he puts a few decent starts together in the next couple of weeks and NL team will want him as a innings eater.
Michael Cuddyer isnt’ going to be traded, SI is almost a bigger joke then ESPN on rumors and stories. You don’t sign Cuddyer to a 3 year deal and then trade him before 1 of the years is up. Also like any team besides a contender would want him. And I thought the Twins WERE contending so maybe not wise to trade the only power hitter you have besides Morneau, Monroe and Kubel. Yeah I get it, he has 3HRS. Most likely the cause of that is that he has been playing with broken fingers most of the year.
Denard Span has 0 Home Runs. And Yeah I get it he will still have 0 when the season ends. Oh okay well maybe 1 but not 3.
Oh yeah and Rick Reily is really a piece of work and always has been. Just a realy pile. He should fit in well at ESPN.Com.
Deadline trades are usually buyers (in the race)giving up prospects to get higher priced vets from sellers (out of the race).
Cuddyer/Hernandez for a high salary 3B is just someone playing fantasy baseball.
If the Twins are really buyers, they would be giving up top minor league prospects for the desired 3B (Beltre?)
Not their usual stance but they have payroll room THIS year.
If the Twins fall out of the race, they might then become sellers and try to unload Hernandez for someone else’s prospects.
But players traded for players (no prospects involved) is very unlikely until the off-season.
The story is, Hamilton failed and MVP didn’t.
Hamilton should have EASILY set the record for this Derby thing. But he pedered out.
Morneau should have EASILY gotten beat. But instead he showed what an excellent MLB player is all about. And Hamilton is behind him on that learning curve.
That’s reality. That’s the story. That’s why Morneau is the champ. THAT’s the triumph.
And everyone, including Jason and ESPN, sucker for the latest flash-in-the-pan hyped-up story — ironically reinforcing a culture which produces the likes of a Hamilton who turns to drugs instead of the self-respecting approach of a Morneau.
[Note: ESPN as of this writing is still giving top prominence to and hyping the Hamilton story.]
As I’ve said (perhaps too many times) before, IF the Twins go out and get anything similar to Beltre and Houston, expect your “Top 10 Prospects” list to take a major hit. No team is going to trade a “power hitting 3B” for any combination of Twins major league spare parts and injured regulars.
wow I am honored to be reading the words of the most perfect human beings ever!!! all you rubes that are bashing Hamilton for beating an addiction have never made a mistake… INCREDIBLE…
FIRE,
I’ve made a million mistakes.
I don’t expect to be congratulated for any of them.
JimC: agree, as I’ve read on the other blog sites, people’s trade proposals to get Beltre are absurd… as we both know, it’s going to take a couple of top pitching prospects (we dont have much else) to get Beltre, even perhaps a draft pick involved… Good things for us are 1) his age 2) how bad Seattle wants to dump him and his salary 3) his injury
Bad things 4) price 5) what Seattle asks for in return 6) FA after 2009
I just dont see it happening… as TNGuy and I talked about already…
My views on Hamilton:
Good for him that he found god and was able to turn his life around from a very serious addiction he admits he still battles.
BUT - ESPN is turning it into way to ‘feel good’ of a story in my opinion by celebrating it so much. Hes not the only guy ever to have an addiction, and he’s not the only one ever to recover. What he is is one of the select few who were handed a silver spoon for life by being the #1 draft choice and threw it away. He’s back now, but they’re treating him like hes the best role model out there, which he IS NOT.
As I said before I’ll take a Mauer or Morneau and their non-checkered past over a recovering Heroin addict as a role model for my kids any day of the week.
I am glad for Hamilton, but he is not the person ESPN is making him out to be. Its a good story, but there are better ones not involving drugs. Like Mauers interview with Erin Andrews during the derby…
MarkW,
Draft picks are untradeable.
I’m not familiar with Seattle’s minor league system but it seems logical they might want a 3B prospect in return.Not sure I would want to part with Valencia at AA.But thats the kind of prospect,along with others it might take.If the Twins could get him for young pitching talent only, I’d be more inclined to do so.The Twins organization could probably weather that.
Here’s my point, illustrated. Everyone talks about trading Cuddyer, Hernandez, Punto, Buscher, Everett, Lamb, one of the bullpen guys, or some other banged up major leaguer or spare part for someone like Beltre, Street, Atkins, etc.
But if JoeC or LEN break a story here that the Twins have traded for, let’s say Atkins for the sake of argument, and in return have sent to the Rockies: Tyler Robertson, Ben Revere, Jeff Manship and Deolis Guerra… what’s the reaction? What if Liriano is included in a trade?
I’m curious because I’m pretty sure that’s the TYPE of deal it would take to get someone who would come in and have the sort of immediate impact that fans seem to want.
Is this team already filled with enough young talent (Casilla, Span, Gomez, Young, Mauer, Morneau and the “big five” starting pitchers) that it can afford to let it’s farm get raided to fill a missing link or two with the Twins and jump start a run of what would hopefully be several years of playoff contention?
I suppose what I’m asking is… who is “off the table” in trade talks?
You guys forget there is a guy ready to get bumped to AAA who plays third, was chosen for the Futures game, and has turned into a slugger.
Luke Hughes…
I’d do something like Valencia, Korecky, and one of the Fort Myers starters not named Guerra or Robertson. Plus whatever throw in of Macri, Lamb, Buscher, or Tolbert the team were trading with would want for a hitter.
Is that enough, I don’t know, but thats not that big of a blow to the system.
TNGuy, I’m not sure I’ve read anyone suggesting Hamilton is a “role model” for kids. Even Hamilton himself would no doubt push M & M as better “role models” for kids to follow than himself.
But what he can do (and apparently is doing) is tell kids what it’s like to make the wrong decisions and go through hell as a result. He’s fortunate enough to have survived his trip to hell and back and I do think he has something valuable to offer by holding himself out as an example of what choices not to make.
There is room, I believe, in society for the Mauers and the Hamiltons… and both have value as examples for others to learn from.
Tyler Robertson, Ben Revere, Jeff Manship and Deolis Guerra for Adrian Beltre is WAY too much.
Seattle would take about .0003 seconds to accept that trade
MarkW:
I agree that it will take good players to get Beltre. But it can’t be draft choices since you can’t trade draft picks in baseball.
One thing to consider, though, is that Beltre’s value won’t change much before he becomes a free agent. He likely will be a Type A free agent at the end of 2009 and the Twins would get two draft picks for him. What they give up should at minimum be the equivalent of two players who are valued as first-round quality plus a player or two.
Jim, the only player you listed I’d be hesitant to deal is Liriano. However, I’d even deal him in the right deal. He’s been injured more than healthy in his career.
You have to give talent to get talent. I’d try to get Matt Kemp from the Dodgers. They seem to have soured on him for some reason. He’d look good in left or right field, I think. That probably can’t happen as long as you have Cuddy and Young on the team though. Laroche is another Dodger I’d probably go for. Can play 3B or any other position, but can likely hit in the bigs. I can’t remember, though, if either of those guys is right handed.
As for Atkins or Beltre, tough choice. I think Beltre costs less in prospects because of the size of his contract though. He’d cost a good pitching prospect, plus Hughes or Plouffe, and maybe a mediocre/bad pitching prospect, I’d guess (maybe a tad less, but I’m not sure). Seattle needs to unload salary, and to get some prospects. I don’t know if I fully trust Atkins for some reason, though he’d surely be an upgrade.
Carlos Gutierrez made his debut at Ft. Myers…
1 IP, 1 H, 2 K’s
Shooter Hunt has pretty much the equivalent of a No-hitter to begin his minor league career…
8 IP, 0 H, 16 K’s in 2 starts
who is “off the table” in trade talks?
In no particular order:
Morneau
Mauer
Gomez
Casilla
Young (yes, Young)
Buscher/Harris/Casilla (one or two, but not all three. depending on what position is being filled)
Cuddyer/Kubel (one or the other, again depending on position filled)
Nathan, Baker, Blackburn, Liriano/Perkins (one or other), Guerrier (since Neshek’s out)
Quick list off the top of my head. I’m more than open for suggestions otherwise. (Think of it as starting a dialouge)
Sid: i guess i meant to say those we just drafted (Hicks, etc) or a player to be named later… forgot that you can’t just give up your 1st round pick as in the NFL/NBA.
As for players that are untouchable (basically what I think the Twins won’t do) is trade: Liriano, Gomez, Young or Casilla… I dont think anyone else in AAA or AA or A are untouchable as this point… it would just be a shock if they did pull an Atkins type blockbuster… we’ve seen one in Santana, I doubt we see another…
TNGuy, see that’s my point. I wasn’t “suggesting” the Twins make that kind of offer. But as cmath points out, his “worth” to the Mariners if they wait out 2009 and let him walk is 2 first round quality picks. So he’s going to cost more than that right now. I think people have a tendency to underestimate what it takes to get the kind of player they say they want the Twins to trade for.
And Hughes is a great story, by the way. Can he sustain the OPS levels he’s shown this season (almost 200 points over his career average)? He’s certainly one offensive prospect that’s stepped up this season. That said, I do worry about the language problem. Do the Twins have any coaches at the major league level that speak Australian?
JimCrikket,
I understand your point but I think you are over stating it a bit, to say the least.The recent trend in MLB is not to offer four or five top flight prospects for one player to get you over the hump.Thats not to stop Seattle from asking.But this was proven rather vividly in March when all Twins fans thought they could get the world for Johan.And Beltre or Aikens is no Johan,even with an extra year on their contacts.
But you are correct that The Twins will have to give up something good,perhaps in IMO,two quality prospects,a lower tiered one and/or maybe someone off the Major League roster to make room for someone like Beltre.
As for Roberston,Manship,Revere,and Guerra (or Liranio) that is laughable and BS would never do that.I’ll ask you this about Valencia.Would you include him in a trade,with perhaps a Manship OR a Robertson, for Beltre? Seattle wants young players to be sure,but I think they are just as interested in getting rid of his contract.
T covered the obvious players not going anywhere… i left them off my list to start…
Cmath: the more I think about it, the more i like getting Beltre and dumping him after 2009 for the picks (especially if he HELPS us this year in a playoff run) Only problem is the Twins will have to fight the urge to keep him after all the fans that say “we can’t let him go, he’s such a big part of the team!”
Trading for a game changer player (with a large contract and at the latter stage of his career) does not always have to break the bank. Case(s) in point:
Roberto Alomar traded by the Cleveland Indians with Danny Peoples and Mike Bacsik to the New York Mets for Matt Lawton, Alex Escobar,Jerrod Riggan, Earl Snyder
Bobby Abreau traded by the Philadelphia Phillies with Cory Lidle to the New York Yankees for Matt Smith, C.J. Henry, Carlos Monasterios, and Jesus Sanchez
Carlos Guillen traded by the Seattle Mariners to the Detroit Tigers for Ramon Santiago and Juan Gonzalez (the other one)
Jermaine Dye traded by the Colorado Rockies to the Oakland Athletics for Todd Belitz, Mario Encarnacion, and Jose Ortiz.
Rentaria traded by the Boston Red Sox with cash to the Atlanta Braves for Andy Marte
Mike Piazza traded by the Florida Marlins to the New York Mets for Preston Wilson, Ed Yarnall, and Geoff Goetz
Sheffield traded by the Los Angeles Dodgers to the Atlanta Braves for Brian Jordan, Odalis Perez, and Andrew Brown
Alfonso Soriano traded by the Texas Rangers to the Washington Nationals for Brad Wilkerson, Armando Galarraga, and Terrmel Sledge
Also,if push comes to shove, I think most teams will take a player(s) already in someones minor league system with a good track record rather than rely on unproven draft picks in trade scenarios.Seeing what a player does under pro conditions is a more valuable rating tool than some draft pick beating up inferior competetion.A team looking to unload an over priced guy would lean heavily towards minor league players IMO.
I’ll throw out a list of ‘Tradeable’ prospects that would be good enough in the right deal to land a hitter…
AAA:
Randy Ruiz, 1B/DH (old I know)
Jose Morales, C
Matt Macri, 3B
Garret Jones, 1B/RF
Jason Pridie, CF
Kevin Mulvey, SP
Philip Humber, SP
Danny Graves, RP (i know he’s not a prospect)
Julio DePaula, RP
Carmen Cali, RP
Bobby Korecky, RP/closer
AA:
Dustin Martin, CF
Daniel Valencia, 3B
Matt Moses, LF
Brock Peterson, 1B
Ben Julienel, RP/Closer
Robert Delaney, RP/closer
Ryan Mullins, SP
A:
Wilson Ramos, C
Edward Ovalle, OF
Cole Devries, SP
Alex Burnett, SP
Mathew Fox, SP
Blair Erickson, RP
and that’s where I think it goes back to the money issue… leaving out the rest of this year (where at most, we’d owe Beltre around $6M), in 2009, would the Twins pay $12M for him… A) Even if he is worth it and we have the room on the supposed “budget”… I still dont see, even this GM, paying him that amount…
Would I? probably…
Thrylos98,
Great research and cases in point!I think It is more likely that a guy like Beltre will go to whom ever makes the first quality off,it doesn’t have to be a system buster.The M’s want to unload his contract and start over.
romer is wrong on the issue of media coverage of this event…Jim Crikket hit it dead-on.
Guys…this is an exhibition…it’s not like a golf tourney where the second place finisher is hitting 360 yard drives, but the winner, who is more consistent, is getting duped of the proper pub.
The whole purpose of this event is to wow the TV audience with long homerun after long homerun and Hamilton did it in unprecedented fashion. This point simply cannot be rationally refuted–even Morneau would admit that the story of the night was Hamilton.
So as much as I love to rip ESPN, I cannot do so in this instance (except for foolishly embarrassing comments by one Rick Reilly, as I chronicled above).
Now, having said that, Morneau won this thing fair and square. As impressive as Hamilton was in round one, he was equally pathetic in the finals–which is where the competition is won or lost. Therefore, you’re not going to hear me say “hand the trophy to Hamilton” the way a lot of Rangers’ fans are saying today. Still, the trophy isn’t what people tune in for…they tune in to be wow’d by long homerun after long homerun and only man provided that last night.
Twins Notes Guy
Valencia and Delaney are as tradeable as Mauer and Monroe at this point. I’d add Swarzak to your list and everyone in AAA not named Liriano.
Pitching prospects in our system that should be untouchable in my opinion are:
Liriano (not really a prospect)
Deolis Guerra
Tyler Robertson
Anthony Slama
Jeff Manship
Brian Duensing
Every other one is tradeable, but the ones I listed above I believe are the only ones someone would want.
“i guess i meant to say those we just drafted (Hicks, etc) or a player to be named later… forgot that you can’t just give up your 1st round pick as in the NFL/NBA.”
Hicks and the 2008 draftees are also untradeable for one year after signing.
Thrylos,
Hopefully you meant Morneau not Monroe!I agree on Valencia 100%.He isthe 3B of the not to distant future.I’m sure the M’s might ask however.
thrylos - not sure I understand that comment…
my list is of guys I think they could trade and get a hitter…
are you saying they are ‘untradeable?’ if so why?
Valencia -> Hughes is vastly outplaying him.
Delaney -> was moved up when I felt Anthony Slama should have been. both are good, but I’ll take Slama’s ridiculous 84 K’s in 51 IP.
just for reference, Valencia and Hughes at AA:
Hughes: 60 games, .328 avg, 15 HR, 37 RBI,.589 Slugging, 4 SB.
Valencia: 27 games, .270 avg, 0 HR, 4 RBI, .340 slugging, 0 SB.
and hughes has an OPS 300 points higher…
I just want to know your feelings on Valencia being the 3B of the future over Hughes?
TNG,
Valencia is the 3B of the future, Hughes projects more like a middle infielder. He is a converted 2B, with not much range in the field and not too good of a bat (he is playing 2B now that Valencia is up)
Delaney is much more advanced than Slama. He has a ridiculous 16K/BB and 10.3K/9 at AA vs Slama’s 5.6 K/BB and 14.8K/9 at A+ and is a year and a half younger. I see both of them as critical members of the Twins bullpen sooner than later
I would add the following names to your pitching prospect untradable list alphabetically:
Santos Arias
Robert Delaney
Jarrad Eacott
Blair Erickson
Carlos Gutierrez
Shooter Hunt
Andrei Lobanov
David Martin
Michael McCardell
Bradley Tippett
Just because Hamilton put on an impressive show in the 1st round, surely nobody can argue that Morneau was swept aside! Maybe it is a made for TV event and means nothing, but at least acknowledging that the man won and getting his name correct is just a matter of respect for gods sake! He was all but ignored the entire night, until they had to eventually acknowledge they had to give him the trophy, and then they got his name wrong. ESPN, State Farm, and all the announcers and writers should be embarrassed…..
oops, I meant “not too good of a glove” up there for Hughes. His bat is more than fine
I’ve heard Rantz say that the Twins project Hughes as more of a 2B than a 3B.He even used the word “utility plyer” if I’m not mistaken.Also I could be wrong but hasn’t the ‘08 season been a real breakout year for Hughes? Valencia is a natural 3B and hit at both Beloit and Ft. Meyers.
thrylos- I’m not sure I see those stats the same way you do, heres their numbers at A+ this year:
Delaney: 1-2, 1.42 ERA, 31.2 IP, 34 K’s, 4 BBs, 6.82 hits/9IP, 9.66 K/9IP, 0.88 WHIP.
Slama: 3-9, 0.71 ERA, 51 IP, 84 K’s, 15 BBs, 5.29 hits/9IP, 14.59 K/9IP, 0.87 WHIP.
Delaney got called up to AA about 2 weeks ago, I find Slama’s number far superior, but they’re both good…
I think a realistic trade for Beltre would be two mid level prospects and a player to be named later. Seattle gets to build their farm system back up a little, unload a salary, and obviously, the Twins get a slugging 3B right hander. The Twins do not need to dismantle their farm system, but having too many prospects and not a contending MLB club doesn’t do a team any good either. The real money is made at the major league level, and I’m talking about money for the owner, not the players. P.S. $12 million a year for a 29 year old gold glove 3B who could hit 25 or more HR’s a year is a great deal. Or do we need to keep more high level pitchers and outfielders in our farm system who “might” make the major league roster in three years? Our major league squad is so young at key positions, we should be worrying about replacing those positions with guys that are in high school right now, not guys that are at AAA.
Thrylos- Slamas numbers at A+ this year are far superior than Delaneys were, you do know he just got called up to AA like 2 weeks ago right?
I just screwed up my post comparing their stats, they are both Awesome numbers, but Slamas are off the charts in comparison, and Slama has more Pitching experience than Delaney does….
and I can’t see how you can say Valencia may have a superior bat to Hughes when the numbers are so far in Hughes’ favor…
slama should be 3-0
double oops,gotcha thrylos…
Aren’t Delaney and Slama just a tad bit old for the level they are playing in?Slama was 24 in Jan. and Delaney will be 24 in Sept.
Valencia does have a better track record, but his avg and power numbers have gone down as he’s moved up while Hughes have gone up.
TwinsNotesGuy - Who are we going to get as a hitter with the list you provide of players that are available? I’d say nobody worth anything. Certainly not Beltre or Atkins that’s foresure. Carlos Gutierrez IS untouchable as you can’t trade a pick you just signed. They have to play a year for you first.
To get a real impact bat and not a Boone or Phil Nevin you are going to have to give a top prospect. AND again I want to point out all the guys you mentioned besides D. Guerra and Liriano are NOT top 100 prospects overall in the major leagues. Luke Hughes is not a top prospect he is not highly regarded and has lots of issues overall. That’s not saying he could be good but he doesn’t translate into a top player in the majors.
I’m not saying the Twins have to pull a big deal to get to the playoffs but if they want to win the World they do.
To get a Beltre they will need to give up at least one of the Twins top prospects, and a decent secondary prospect and then a maybe a throw in.
To get Atkins it’s going to take at least two top prospects and two secondary prospects and then I doubt Colorado even wants to trade him. To get Fuentes it would take one top prospect and two secondary prospects. The only guys that should be off limit are Ben Revere, Liriano & D. Guerra. If Seattle said Luke Hughes, Anthony Swarzak and Denard Span would get the job done I’d jump at it. Probably take a little more than that though.
Doug Munson,
yes they are a bit old, but (believe it or not) Slama is only on his second pro ball season and Delaney in his third….
These guys could replace Boof and Bass in the Twins’ pen today and the pen would be better…
Doug - they both pitched 4 years in college… not uncommon for their to be those types at that level when they are 2 years removed from being drafted…
Sean,
top prospects are not necessary when you are getting a high paid position player just at his prime years. See my 2:42 pm comment for examples…
Seattle wants a contending team. It is not the Marlins or Pirates, so they would like major league ready players for this and more importantly next year.
I think that a combination of one or 2 from Bass/Buscher/Bonser plus one or 2 minor leaguers from Lis/Plouffe/Peterson/De Paula, might actually do it…
I never mentioned Gutierrez in Trade talks, only that he made his debut, and i do think that a package of:
Swarzak, Valencia, Cole Devries, and Korecky + one of the fill in MLB infielders would be enough to get a Beltre or an Atkins….
Anthony Slama’s stats have improved every year (and every jump in level) since he was a USD Freshman.
He is better than Delaney and was rated better than Delaney by Baseball America 2008 Prospect Handbook.
I coached Slama in Travel Ball, so don’t expect objectivity on that subject from me.
Team ERA
USD 6.18
USD 3.18
Elizabethton 2.46
Beloit 1.48
Fort Myers 0.73
Thrylos and TNG-Thanks for the comments on Slama and Delenay.I guess I personally wouldn’t get overly excited about their stats, for the simple reason that because of their age age and physical maturity they SHOULD be dominating youger less experienced competition.
As far as Valencia and Hughes TNG,Valencia’s AA stats are a small sample.He has out performed Hughes at every other level.They are both the same age by the way!
As far as replacing Boof and Bass,that wouldn’t take much IMHO.
hell add one of our ‘toolsy’ outfielders thats failed but was a high pick as well… and maybe Plouffe, though I still have hope for him
Time to go, my typing is getting worse than usual!Enjoy the Mid Summer Classic everyone!
doug i’ll quote myself
“Valencia does have a better track record, but his avg and power numbers have gone down as he’s moved up while Hughes have gone up.”
later Doug!
Took a break and got some work done. I’ve really enjoyed catching up on the comments, though (and how often is it one would say that?).
I do think it would take a very substantial package to get Atkins… assuming Colorado is even willing to part with him. I just don’t see that happening.
I agree with thrylos that Beltre SHOULD come cheaper, based on similar trades in the past. Yet, you also admit that Seattle is most likely going to want ‘major league ready’ talent in return, unlike what a lot of your examples were willing to take in order to dump salary. I think Seattle is going to look to make a deal that will go toward making up for losing the talent they sent to Baltimore for Bedard. That’s why I don’t think Beltre comes to the Twins for mid level prospects. At least one or two players in that deal are going to have to project to being in the M’s starting lineup Opening Day next spring.
Should add “…and/or on their major league pitching staff Opening Day.”
Cricket then Span and Buscher along with a minor league pitcher or 2? is in the ball park??
and if the only untradeables in our system are Liriano and Guerra, theres better guys than beltre and atkins we could land…
JimCrikket- I was in Denver on the 4th to catch a few Rockies games (including the 18-17 game) and the mood around the stadium and in the papers was the Atkins OR Holliday were probably on the way out. Most people said they’d prefer to get rid of Atkins if they had too because a guy named Ian Stewart is ready at AAA to take over for him…
JimCrikket,
“Took a break and got some work done”
Now thats the attitude we want from posters on this blog. None of this “I took a break from work and came back to the blog”
You’ve got your priorities straight. Thats why we are all “jobless”!
How bout this deal:
Span, Boof, Cole Devries/Swarzak, Tolbert/Buscher/Macri/Lamb for Beltre or atkins?
how close is that?
well, good talks today, time to go home
sane: You’ve got your priorities straight. Thats why we are all “jobless”!
…or soon to be?
While I admit I continue to have doubts about Span’s ability to keep up current levels of productivity over the next couple of years (and maybe not even over the next couple of months), I don’t see him being included in a trade before the deadline now that Cuddyer’s return has been delayed indefinitely. I suppose that wouldn’t preclude him from being included as a possible “player to be named later”, but I’m still doubtful.
I do not see Span get traded (even though arguably he has the most trade value of any Twins’ outfielder in the majors) but when Cuddyer comes up the Twins would have the problem of having 6 OFs in the 25 man roster (Cuddyer, Gomez, Kubel, Monroe, Span, Young). Something has to give; not sure what, but the value of the OFs to the franchise, based on salary, age, potential and performance is (in descending order):
Young
Gomez
Kubel
Span
Cuddyer
Monroe
Logic says that one of the bottom 3 would be gone by then…
“The whole purpose of this event is to wow the TV audience with long homerun after long homerun”…”This point simply cannot be rationally refuted–…”
The whole purpose? So why are there those silly things called rules and why is there that silly thing called a “winner”. And why don’t they just measure the length of HRs and award the trophy to the one with the most total distance?
And why……I’m sorry, I forgot I couldn’t rationally refute what Jason says.
My bad.
OK…Hamilton has a single and Morneau has a double. So, so far at least, Hamilton is better tonight because he’s a starter, right?
Right?
Hamilton did better in the beginning, so he’s better than Morneau, right?
I’m going to try and get to one of the game’s this weekend.
If you’re there, and here a guy trying to start a chant of: “His name’s JUS-TIN!” you’ll know I made it.
Hamilton did better in the beginning, so he’s better than Morneau, right?
Also, the NL scored their 2 runs earlier in the game than the AL. And were also the first to score 3.
So naturally, they’re really the story of the All Star game, as they scored the first go ahead runs.
Right romer. But congrats to J.D. Drew anyway. You’ll never believe what I found on Wikipedia:
“J.D. Drew American Baseball Player.
Justin David Drew (born November 20, 1975 in Valdosta, Georgia) is a Major League Baseball right fielder for the Boston Red Sox”
Just skip over that last one T. sorry.
Morneau got screwed again, this time by J.D.Drew in the MVP award. Besides not deserving it, why does Drew need that Four Wheel Drive he won, in Boston? There ain’t any snow there! ! !
And Tahoes run on Ethanol. They don’t have E85 in Boston either. The only kind of gas they make in Boston is from Beans!
Sorry that was uncalled for, but when I get riled up I resort to bathroom humor.
I think giving a professional ball player a car is stupid. It’d be cooler if they donated money (Equal to the value of the car) to a charity instead.
If I were ever a player (at the MLB level) and they tried to do that, I’d turn it down on national TV and donate the value myself.
New Stadium: Wouldn’t this make sense?
1) Build the new Stadium in Bloomington close to the Mall of America.
2) Build some huge hotels, shopping malls, restaurants, Parking Garages in between New Stadium & Mall of America
3) Construct some easy mass transit (i.e. light rail) that would make it EASY to go back-and-forth between the New Stadium & Mall of America & new constructions in between the two.
4) Talk about a boost to the economy!
