Batting leadoff tonight … Denard Span
Posted on July 22nd, 2008 – 3:27 PMBy Howard
This is LaVelle’s news not mine, but he just called in and told one of the editors that he saw the lineup card for tonight’s game. Carlos Gomez has been dropped to the No. 9 spot in the batting order and Denard Span is leading off.
LaVelle will have more later after he talks to Gardy.
Start the chant: The people… united… will never be defeated!
other people are here too
122 Responses to "Batting leadoff tonight … Denard Span"
Thanks, Howard. Had a feeling it would be tonight.
Thank you Jebus!
FINALLY!!!!!!! Thanks Howard.
Now lets find out if it is the curse of the leadoff spot or not. My hope is Denard continues to roll.
HALLELUJAH!!!!!!!!!!!!
i can’t imagine what it’s going to be like with the potential for a runner on in front of casilla & mauer. oh happy day!
Twins fans rejoice your voice has been heard.
Gomez line tonight:
5-5, 12 RBI, 2 3B, 3 HR (1 GS)
After all the clamoring from the fans and Media Gardy just wanted everyone to know, IT WAS HIS IDEA!!Seriously,for Gomez’ sake this is the right move for know.
Yeah Gardy–you’re finally getting it! At this pace, hell will freeze over before Livan gets the hook and Liriano is promoted!
I don’t think it’s a curse–when was the last good leadoff hitter the Twins had?
Gomez?
Castillo?
Jacque?
The abyss that was the mid-90’s?
Gladden?
OK, maybe. 
I think it is a fair move. Many fear it would affect Gomez’s psyche as if batting horribly does not already. You reward production, because if a guy is busting his rump and doing well but kept down it is his psyche in danger. I am so happy they are doing this. Long term it can only help both players, and in time Gomez and Span 1 - 2 or vice aversa can allow Mauer to hit a more suited 3. This is more smart baseball and I think the Twins were just waiting to make sure Span’s numbers were not just fluky.
Not so fast!
Is Punto playing CF?
Is Span just filling in until Gomez returns to his spot tomorrow?
Inquiring minds…….
“the last good leadoff hitter the Twins had?
Lenny Green?
Last good leadoff hitter for Twins? Shannon Stewart.
Next stop, call up Liriano.
Shannon Stewart…
I’m a bit slow with the trigger finger, good call Plunkton.
What’s todays survey question?
Liriano or
Livan?
Free beer?
Didn’t Knoblauch bat leadoff?
“Last good leadoff hitter for Twins? Shannon Stewart.”
He had a good half-year as the Twins leadoff hitter. I did a blog a couple of years ago that showed that he was statistically one of the worst leadoff hitter in the league overall. I consider a leadoff hitter’s job to 1.) get on base and 2.) see some pitches. In both cases, Stewart was near the bottom of the league.
He’ll be the Twins’ best leadoff hitter since Steve Braun!
I always thought Chuck Knoblauch was a pretty good lead-off guy although he kid hit #2 as well. If Span can’t cut it you can always push Casilla up to #1 and drop Span down to #2 in theory. The way that “Slappy” Young hits it now, you could put him up to #1 or #2 but you would still only get him to look at about 3 pitches if you were lucky. Let’s give Gardy a little bit of credit rather than pick on his small miscalculations. Are there any other manager’s in baseball that could have done a better job with this line-up and this rotation? Let’s also reevaluate the job that Mauer is doing. He is not only the best hitting catcher in baseball, he is a #2 hitter who is holding down the #3 spot in the batting order, he is the best defensive catcher in baseball and calls a good game from behind the plate. He is in the Top 5 in calling games as well. He isn’t just the best catcher in the AL by a little, he is the best by a large margin in my opinion.
“Gomez batting ninth can steal 2B now, because Mauer and Morneau are now two batters away!”
Ok, I will make this observation on this move:
Why did this have to be such a ground-breaking development so as to warrant a huge fan push, followed by a columnist’s plea, followed by yet another denial by the manager, followed by a breaking-news sounder when it desparately came down to no other choice?
Don’t worry Howard, I’m not dissing you, this is, unfortunately, breaking news.
Back to my question…why is this seen as groundbreaking stuff; so much so that a move seemingly can only be made after a full Congressional investigation and evidentiary hearing? Why not make the move two-three weeks ago when it made sense?
To draw a parallel, Gardy seems to have the same attitude with regard to Mauer batting third (even with Mauer’s improvements here in 2008, everyone still is painfully aware that the guy is not a No. 3 hitter). A full offseason evidentiary hearing and Congressional investigation took place and Gardy was willing to roll with a change for a grand total of 4 games. Why? What’s so sacred about a spot in the batting order?
As far as I’m concerned….as an everyday Twins follower since 1988, there are only three players whose spot in the batting order was sacred: Puckett was your three hitter, Hrbek was your four hitter, Dan Gladden was your lead-off hitter. Everyone else is easily subject to mixing and matching.
And the same can be said for this batch of Twins–Frankly, Justin Morneau has molded himself into an ideal No. 3 hitter (even though he still works well at clean-up). Mauer would be the league’s best No. 2 hitter. But don’t count on it, folks…not without a full Congressional investigation and evidentiary hearing.
And even then, the experiment might only last 4 days.
Jason,
Hrbek hit 7th in the 87 world series against a lefty
Luis Castillo has some good “half years” at leadoff until his legs would die in July.
Jason,
Don’t forget Bombo.
It’s a miracle! What prompted Gardy to finally make this call?
Maybe Gomez’s July batting line? or stolen bases?
Jason,
“Mauer would be the league’s best No. 2 hitter. But don’t count on it, folks…”
At least not until someone agrees with you.
Right now, SURVEY SAYS………Mauer bats third!
“Hrbek hit 7th in the 87 world series against a lefty”
Excellent. Further proof that it’s okay to deviate. Again, someone explain this to me…why must a spot in the batting order be regarded as sacred to some players? Do you really think Joe Mauer would fall apart if they moved him to No. 2?
Speaking of horrible leadoff hitters, check out Dan Gladden’s numbers sometime… wow! He was not good!
Ha! Howard, you didn’t even post breaking news during the Santana negotiations, so I’m picking up that you are a little excited about Gardy’s move….
Gladden was never really a good player, although was sort of a glue guy
True enough Seth…but if you want to get into that argument, check out Kent Hrbek’s post-season numbers…and he’s on the wall instead of Kaat and / or Blyleven.
Gladden still is the best Twins broadcaster; he was no-nonsense as a player and it shines through in the broadcast.
geez Gardy are you SURE? Maybe you better come to your senses and have Go-Go bat cleanup instead…
Yes!! Get Gladden in the TV booth. I want to hear Gladden and Blyleven call a game. (no offense, Mr. Brehmer)
Because Jason, Gardy is stubborn, unable to admit he is wrong and therefore delays making a smart move so he can later say he made the decision on his own at the time he felt was right and not because the entire state and baseball press was beating him over the head for it.
Knoblauch was the last good leadoff hitter for the Twins that fit the prototypical leadoff mold. He may have been a pompous ass, but he was a tough out.
“Gladden was never really a good player, although was sort of a glue guy”
An unfair statement if you lived through his playing tenure.
Let’s not forget, Gladden’s hustle turned a single into a double to lead off the bottom of the 10th in Game 7, 1991. If not for that move, we might not win that game.
“Maybe you better come to your senses and have Go-Go bat cleanup instead…”
That would mean Mauer would break the intentional BB record for a season by the end of August.
i remember Jason, i lived thru. He was an ok player. Probably outplayed his talent
Gladden has to be given all-time broadcasting cred for calling out Matt Guerrier on-air for having a different kind of “magazine” in his hands during a pitching staff meeting prior to a series…Gladden said each pitcher is given a magazine with the scouting report on the hitters; Guerrier apparently was reading a different magazine.
Absolutely priceless stuff, there. I hope the dude never gives up that job…he’s the one guy we can count on to tell us what’s really going on.
Jason,
While most people agree with you that Mauer is not a #3 hitter, if he is moved to #2 who bats 3rd?
SweetOne,
Umm..how about a guy hitting .318 / 15 HR / 73 RBI….just so happens we have one of those.
Whiteness,
LaVelle would have posted it on his blog, but he can’t be in 2 places — manager’s office and press box — at one time. We’re just trying to get the news out to a public that seems hungry for it.
I typically leave breaking news to the guys on the beat.
Jason,
Do you analyze your golf-league putts as intently as you analyze blog posts? Just wonderin’!
Jason…I’m afraid to ask what kind of magazine…. so I won’t.
Gladden’s career OBP is 40 points better than Gomez. His K/BB ratio is less than 2:1, Gomez more than 5:1, and his ERA is 4.50.
Plunkton,
Gordo said it had to have been Sports Illustrated or something and Gladden was quick to point out “Nice try in covering for him, John”
Howard,
My putting has been horrendous the last week…really, really bad…so maybe less would be more as far as that goes…as for my posts…that part’s easy: I think, then I type.
The ROAR you hear is coming from 95% of the Twins fans around the globe approving of Span leading off or better yet, that Go-GOmez moves to 9th spot (for the time being)
The people… united… will never be defeated!
I want to go on the record by saying that moving Span to the lead off spot may not help his development. Its not like Denard Span has proven much yet. He has only been at the Big League level for a couple of weeks. I think Casilla would be a better choice but what do I know. Either way, getting Gomez out of there is the best for the line up even though the Twins win streak has occured with him at the top.
I remember the first game of the year…Gomez led off with a bunt hit, stole second, Mauer was hitting second..singled and bam its 1-0 before you can blink. Cuddy hit third to start.
bisonaudit,
Compare Gladden to a “good” leadoff hitter - Ricky Henderson? - Luis Castillo? - Curtis Granderson?
Gomez’s stats are incomparably terrible for a leadoff hitter.
I like Gomez at 8th better than 9th if LNP is in the lineup
“Let’s not forget, Gladden’s hustle turned a single into a double to lead off the bottom of the 10th in Game 7, 1991″
That’s a pretty small sample size of one… He hustled, I’ll definitely give him that!
Jason,
If we move Morneau to #3, who bats cleanup? Kubel?
They already IBB Morneau in clutch situations to pitch to Kubel.
Gladden’s stats are underwhelming but then: 36 HRs used to lead the league.
“That’s a pretty small sample size of one… He hustled, I’ll definitely give him that!”
Let’s see…we’re talking about an absolutely clutch play on the biggest of possible stages (extra innings of Game 7)
I’m going to give that sample slightly more deference than the average play, thanks very much.
Nothing like replaying the same old arguments with Jason!
I’d rather leave Gomez at leadoff than have to go through that crap a…..
Never mind!
Cancel that alernative!
Not saying he was a world beater just trying to combat the idea that he ‘was not a good player’
I’d say Gladden was servicable in the lead off spot. 350 OBP would qualify as above average even from the lead off spot.
How about Randy Ruiz, SweetOne? He leads the Redwings in almost every offensive statistical category…yet no one says a word about him….
Nah, I’d say at this point if you went that route, you could go Kubel…but you bring up a good point, without Morneau, we don’t have a classic clean-up hitter, either. So the Span, Casilla, Mauer, Morneau approach is probably best for the balance of this year.
Still, to my original point: why does it take such a massive movement to try something different?
who wouldn’t hustle in the 10th inning of Game 7 of the World Series?
I hope someone’s attached to Gomez’ hip on suicide watch. I’m sure his confidence in himself is at the breaking point over this.
Jason, I agree that Mauer and Morneau could be the best 2-3 hitters in the league and Casilla would be a great lead off guy. But that would still require finding someone to hit with a little pop in the cleanup spot and I just don’t see that guy on the roster at this point. Until the Twins have a more traditional #4 guy, I think we’ll see those two guys stay where they’re at. Maybe next year.
“So the Span, Casilla, Mauer, Morneau approach is probably best for the balance of this year.”
Amen!
I’d say Rickey Henderson was better than a good leadoff hitter. He was probably the best ever.
Ruiz hit a huge bomb at the spring training game I was at.
Duh, it took you long enough Gardy!!
Jim Crikket,
“I hope someone’s attached to Gomez’ hip on suicide watch. I’m sure his confidence in himself is at the breaking point over this.”
No problem.
Gomez doesn’t know yet.
He’ll find out when he goes up to the plate to start the game and Span is in the “other” batters box.
when these #’s start to even out maybe you switch them back.
last 14 days: gomez .075 ave, .098 obp;
span .382 ave, .462 obp.
last 28 days: gomez .177 ave, .218 obp;
span .370 ave, .477 obp.
Morneau is a 3, he just looks like a 4 becuase we don’t have a 4.
Mauer is a 2 and we don’t have a 1 either.
Something has to give. I’m a sucker for OBP so if I had my druthers I’d say Span, Mauer, Morneau,…
What’s the big deal about a 4. How many first inning grand slams are hit out of the 4 hole a season? Zero? one?
Jim Cricket
That is why the Twins need Beltre!!!
they could have a lineup like this
1Casilla/Span
2Mauer
3Morneau
4Beltre
5Kubel
6Young
7Casilla/Span
8Punto
9Gomez
Now thats a godd lineup, who care if we have to give up one of our young SP’s, we can then bring up Liriano, and mulvey or Duensing will be ready next year, know doesnt that make sense?
Dating myself here… but Zoilo had a pretty nice year leading off for the Twins in ‘65.
Maybe.Hopefully. Gomez has talent, but he’s sooooo raw. Needs to see more pitches, walk more, K less. Hopefully he can get there. Full of potential.
“I’m a sucker for OBP”
Billy Beane in the house…
It has been an interesting rollercoaster ride for Go-go, has it not? Earlier this season, some of us (myself included, I believe) argued he should be the No. 3 hitter…now he’s finally down to No. 9 (where he should’ve been a month ago).
The main reason this move had to be made in my estimation is the strikeouts. You can’t have a lead-off guy strikeout that much…even if you don’t have the greatest average or OBP, at the very least you do have to know how to put the ball in play at that spot in the order.
sane… Span and Gomez both in opposite batters boxes to lead off… hmmmm… might be on to something there.
Tyler, I like that lineup. Now if we could just get past that pesky detail of the M’s wanting our best young pitchers to get the guy.
Don’t you think that Seattle has gotten their fill of overpaying for our 4th starters and middle relief yet?
We’re not getting Beltre.
Tyler, I like it too, but you’re dreaming, man.
In fact, ANYONE’S dreaming if they think Gardy is going to pull Mauer from the 3-hole.
By the way, did I mention I really like Gardy and have an autographed Ron Gardenhire #35 ball in my car?
(In case anyone was wondering–due to his Game Day attire–Gardy does wear #35)
I’m actually glad Gomez is still in the line up and not sitting down. If ever there was a ballpark (or should I say “cathedral”?) where you want some wheels in all 3 outfield positions, it’s that place.
Randy Ruiz?? I can’t believe i just read that.
“Span and Gomez both in opposite batters boxes to lead off… hmmmm… might be on to something there.”
At least Span could hit the low-and-away slider that Gomez can’t handle.
I would be curious as to the playoff teams and contendors, who actually has a roster that fits the technical “leadoff hitter” “#2 hitter” “#3 hitter” “cleanup guy.” My guess is that by most of your standards, most teams wouldn’t qualify as a prototypical lineup.
I say there is no reason to nitpick on batting order, when we have one that works. Morneau is a power threat and a guy we want at the 4 spot. OK Mauer doesn’t drive in runs, but he still gets on for Morneau. We might not have that prototypical leadoff guy with a .420 OBP and 55 SB, but we have guys who work. I guess I’m not being very technical, but I’m saying that we can analyze a lineup all day and realize that it doesn’t really matter after the 1st inning, who our cleanup guy is. It’s the truth, many baseball minds have said that.
Don’t forget the cathedral in Colorado.
I like Gardy personally. He shops in my former liquor store and was always gracious and chatty.
Can we start the LIVAN revolt now too?!
GET LIVAN OUT! GET FRANCHISE UP! GET LIVAN OUT! GET FRANCHISE UP!
I wonder when the last time was that Gardy actually WORE a jersey with #35, or any other number for that matter, on it. I know managers got an “edict” from MLB that they were to wear full uniforms, but you sure don’t see it.
I think Gardy actually enjoys concealing his number…can’t put my finger on why, though.
Jason,
“By the way, did I mention I really like Gardy”
Gardy and Gladden.
Grumpy Old Men Part III - Return to Minnesota
I dont think I am dreaming too much hear. I mean why not offer the M’s Perkins,Morales and another prospect, and again it would be worth it, that is just what the Twins lineup needs,and rumor has it there is some good pitching prospect in AAA with like 30 something consecutive shut out innings, MAKE THE DEAL!!! COME ON BILLY BOY
mulvey shmulvey.
bison, don’t be silly. A building must be sacred ground to be a cathedral… a place with a name that evokes solemn reverence.
Not a place named after a bad beer. Sheesh. Have you learned NOTHING in the past week?
back to yankee stadium memories, i think this is it’s last yr, not sure. my first baseball memory was of a sat tv game with dizzy dean annoucing and enos slaughter, playing rf, leaning into the right field seats to take a hr away back when the fence was about 300′ away. strange thing to remember soon it will be gone. sigh.
Rotoblinders:
Lets adjust expectations. Last year only 3 guys in the whole league stole 55 bases and the only players w/ a .420 OBP or better batted in the middle of the order.
Henderson’s career OBP is only .401.
My Fav Yankee Stadium moment was being at Game 2 of the 2004 ALDS. My buddy a die hard Yankee fan insisted we leave after the Hunter HR put the Twins ahead in extras
fortunetly i was gone when a wiped Nathan/JC gave the lead back
“(or should I say “cathedral”?)”
Ha! Good one, Crikket.
All this ‘The Stadium’ fauning reminds me of a movie I saw once:
“Your true love lives. And you marry another. True Love saved her in the Fire Swamp, and she treated it like garbage. And that’s what she is, the Queen of Refuse. So bow down to her if you want, bow to her. Bow to the Queen of Slime, the Queen of Filth, the Queen of Putrescence. Boo. Boo. Rubbish. Filth. Slime. Muck. Boo. Boo. Boo.”
After all my comments today, it pretty much goes without saying that my favorite Yankee Stadium moment is yet to come… sometime this off season when the wrecking ball starts knocking down the place.
as you wish
All,
LaVelle’s post from the stadium is up. I won’t be at all hurt if you continue this discussion over there. Glad to be able to bridge the gap from startribune.com Baseball Central here.
Enjoy the game.
Howard
My Favorite Yankee Stadium moment will be when they blow the SOB up!
I hope don’t do the whole sappy music while remembering old yankee stadium moments thing again tonight. I have a hard enough time watching the Masters golf tournament because they do the same thing with augusta national, complete with stupid nicknames for ponds, trees, and so on.
1987 was a very good year.
Bison,
I was being outlandish on purpose. I was essentially trying to point out that our expectations of each slot is way too high.
Glad Livan’s still on the team to be a big brother to Go-go.
I am constantly amazed at how things change…not a negative post about Denard Span in weeks yet last winter we all were in favor of cutting him loose. That is what is great about baseball.
Now we’ll probably find out that Casilla can’t hit with zero outs.
Several of you need to learn the difference between the words “know” and “now”!
IMPORTANT:
Almost forgot……..Jim Kaat’s wife passed away (from cancer).
I can’t think of a classier Twin ever. And a superior player.
Remember when he retired from announcing and they wanted him back for something like the last part of a season….or something. I forget.
But I remember he declined saying he was in the motor home, and that was IT. His plans were to travel and have a wonderful time doing it.
And now I think we know why. A farewell tour with his love.
[Brings tears to me. He’s a wonderful man.]
All my best wishes and prayers to you and yours, Jim. God bless you.
Bill Roemer
I for one was NEVER in favor of cutting him loose. I always thought he just needed a chance and he was out everyday centerfielder (see any plays he has made latley in right?). With the Santana trade, we should have got us a right-handed power hitter (DH or 3rd baseman). When Cuddy gets back, we have too many outfielders!!!
JayTEE
He has reinvented and redeemed himself… for the moment. We Twins fans are a fickle bunch.
He always did it the Twins way……..
agreed on Kaat, romer. Class act all the way and clearly a man with the right priorities.
sane says:
July 22nd, 2008 at 4:42 pm
“My Favorite Yankee Stadium moment will be when they blow the SOB up!”
My favorite moment in stadium history ANYWHERE is when the implode the dome. I will pay nearly any amount for a front row seat!
I don’t get the constant call for Livan’s head. He’s got 10 wins, leads the team in innings pitched and is the only veteran pitcher in the bullpen. He’s an innings eater who for the most part has kept the Twins in every game. I’m all for youth, but having a grizzled vet taking the hill every now and again isn’t the worst thing for a team. Perhaps one of the young righties (like Blackburn) needs to visit the pen for a while in order to get Liriano up.
I agree, Livan is doing his job.
We DO NOT want 5 “near” rookies starting for us in a year the other central teams are begging us to win the division!
span cf
casilla 2b
mauer c
morneau 1b
BELTRE 3b
kubel rf
young lf
buscher dh
harris ss
get some courage and put that trade to get this guy, even if it costs us a couple of good prospects, as we have plenty, as i think this lineup would be pretty solid…yes gomez is on the bench for now….he can come in late for defense, pinch run and occasionally start…jmho
The lineup will look a lot better with a healthy Cuddy and Punto in it!
Even more then needing another hitter, to win the division, this team needs set-up help. Losing Neshek hurt more then people realize. We have blown more late inning leads then normal this year.
Gardy’s just trying to shake things up after yesterday. Look for GoGo back at #1 within three weeks.
No, mj1. We need Go-go roaming in CF.
But otherwise, “get some courage and put that trade to get this guy [Beltre]…”
Right on.
This game went from yay we have the lead to yay we are getting embarrassed again.
Favorite Yankee Stadium moment: 2008 All-Star game. Justin Morneau scores the winning run while the three Twins all do very well.
Beltre trade doesnt he have like a really expensive contract and he is in the prime of his career so….I dont think it would be worth giving up some of our top prospects. I heard this in tonights game by Dick and Bert they say that when cuddyer comes back span will play center cuddyer will play right and gomez will get sent down i think span is better than gomez . Gomez is one dimensional all he has going for him is his speed and span has been the lone bright spot in our boxscores lately oh and one last thing LET LIVAN GO AND CALL UP FRANCISCO LIRIANO!
Beltre trade doesnt he have like a really expensive contract and he is in the prime of his career so….I dont think it would be worth giving up some of our top prospects. I heard this in tonights game by Dick and Bert they say that when cuddyer comes back span will play center cuddyer will play right and gomez will get sent down i think span is better than gomez . Gomez is one dimensional all he has going for him is his speed and span has been the lone bright spot in our boxscores lately oh and one last thing LET LIVAN GO AND CALL UP FRANCISCO LIRIANO!!!!!!!1
