Things remain interesting (and are about to get more so)
Posted on July 28th, 2008 – 8:53 AMBy Howard
After the ineptitude and frustration of New York, playing three games against a team that seemed intent on finding ways to lose was a nice change for the Twins. Despite jumping out to a 5-0 lead in the opener, and seemingly trying to kill both Gomez and Span in the process, Cleveland almost found a way to lose the opener before dropping the final two games of the series.
Yesterday, the Twins put together a fast-pitch softball type rally to take the lead (bloop double, walk, bunt single, 2 RBI grounders) and then won the game when Eric Wedge, the Cleveland manager, pretended that Rafael Perez (”Perez is one of the best relievers in the game against lefties,” he told the propaganda site mlb.com after the game) was a suitable match for Justin Morneau (.347 on-base percentage against lefties and a knack for big hits). Morneau’s double broke a 2-2 tie and Jason Kubel, who has struggled against lefties this season, got an RBI single for the final run.
For the record, opposing left-handed batters have a .321 OBP against Perez and a 1.37 walks/hits per inning. Opposing right-handers? .321, too. By comparison, lefties have a .262 OBP against the sometimes maddening Dennys Reyes this season and a 0.87 WHIP.
Thanks, Eric. You wanna help Ozzie manage the White Sox this week?
If nothing else, this weekend confirmed what has become increasingly obvious. Denard Span absolutely needs to be in the lineup every day, even when Carlos Gomez and Michael Cuddyer are considered fit for duty. Span, who made a stunning catch in left-center to keep Cleveland from scoring more then one run in the eighth, needs to be somewhere in the outfield. In his postgame blog, Joe C. had this interesting muse: “Span said he was playing straight away and deep, trying to prevent a double. So, if he was standing somewhere in from the 400-foot sign in center field, I’m guessing he ran 125 feet to get to the spot where he caught the ball. The catch came just in front of the 370-foot sign in left-center field.”
It’s also becoming increasingly harder to find reasons why Delmon Young, now batting .295/.338/.397, shouldn’t be in the lineup daily. But Span needs to be batting leadoff and playing in the field for the Twins to be putting their best team on the field.
Yesterday, on TV, Dick’n'Bert were making much of the fact that the Twins have played well as a whole against their division rivals — and that all but six of the remaining 25 games against AL Central teams are at the Dome, beginning with the four games against the White Sox that starts tonight. That’s a good thing.
But let me frame it in a way that brings more urgency to the next couple of weeks. The Twins are entering a stretch against the White Sox and Cleveland at home followed by series with awful Seattle and Kansas City on the road. This is a stretch where the Twins needs to be winning much more often than not. Not talked about on TV was the 13-game road trip to LA, Seattle, Oakland and Toronto that begins in a few weeks and runs until the Republicans leave town on September 4.
You don’t have to be a genius, or even a blogger, to realize that trip will have a major, major bearing on whether the Twins will be playing meaningful games for the final few weeks of the season.
The better they do starting tonight and running through the next couple of weeks, the less I’ll be worried about the four-city trip that will require more mental toughness than the Twins have shown on the road this season. No one can deny the Twins of July, through lineup shake-ups and individual improvement, are performing better than they did back in the April and May.
Now, it’s time to show improvement at the mental side of the game.
other people are here too
242 Responses to "Things remain interesting (and are about to get more so)"
Howard, when do we see people calling for Gomez to be traded in favor of Span being the center fielder of the future? I don’t want people to forget their age difference, but do you gamble and say that Gomez will be better than Span in the long run or do you go with a guy that is proving himself right now? Both of them are fantastic and I think the Twins are lucky to have two (potentially) great center fielders, but it seems like they are going to have to make a move in the off-season. Or, do we move Cuddy and make Span the right fielder? Bottom line, Span isn’t going back to AAA and deserves to play everyday.
Howard, we still need a pitcher for the 8th in. or at least to set-up JN. Reyes is hardly the answer for anything.
Unfortunately Cuddy’s trade value is very low now due to hand injuries and performance early in the season (prob. due to hand injury). Also, his salary could be a little much for what his performance might be if these hand injuries continue to linger. I’m sure another team would take a chance on him but his trade value has to be pretty bad right now.
Cuddy needs to be traded plain and simple. he will make 6.75M next year(bad enough considering his performance) but then an absurd 8.5M in 2010 and 10.5 in 2011.
Howard your not going to blame the Republicans if the Twins have a bad road trip now are you?.. let’s not make this a political blog..
cuddy is a great player for the team. Perhaps not everyday outfield, perhaps some first relief as well as 3rd base, but also great potential as a DH. There is room for for both Gomez and Span in the lineup, and Young has started to play to his potential. Buscher needs to play every day, harris has won me over, as well as Cassia,
Everett of the limp arm is waiting to join the big club too.. Twins have a coupld of moves they have to make..somehow Twin’s have to get rid of Lamb for next year, Buscher is better platoon player then him, Punto will be a free agent hopeffull he will not be enticed to stay.. so Tolbert/Macri can join the big club
Reyes has been much worse than his numbers. Inherited runners scoring, blown holds, etc. I appreciate the perspective that comes from comparing our bullpen woes to a truly bad bullpen (Cleveland). But there has to be a better option than Reyes. I would look internally. Move Perkins to that role and promote Liriano to the rotation. Maybe Reyes actually has some trade value based on his numbers.
By the way, how many times have the Indians been picked to win the division in the preseason rankings this decade? I would say six out of the nine years. How many times have they actually won? Twice. What happened the other four times? They had a horrible bullpen. Beyond the lesson about the incompetence of preseason prognosticators (they always underestimate the role of the bullpen), you would think Shapiro would learn his lesson. Williams certainly has.
I would love for the Twins to trade Cruddy. They, however, will not be able to. He is a average, to below average player, whom the Twins over paid. He’s had one good season. If they could get something for him this off season, they would have to make that deal.
Gomez may be a star someday, if he ever gets it at the plate, but he needs to be down in AAA now. We have a division to win, not to baby sit a kid who cannot get on base to cause problems for opposing teams.
Howard your not going to blame the Republicans if the Twins have a bad road trip now are you?…
Nah. But I wager those types of comments will be coming in due time. If it’s one thing people like more than a excuse to bash Punto is an excuse to bash Bush. 
If Gomez comes back healthy, he can bat ninth for a while (I don’t think he had time to adjust before getting hurt).
But Cuddy is the puzzle right now. Do the Twins let him take as much time as he needs in 08 to get healthy and decide what to do once we get to 09?
Everett won’t bump anybody, not when Punto is essentially the same thing but able to play more positions.
Tolbert will be in AAA to get his swing back in an everday role.
I’m not even going to bother talking trades, as we all know there’s only two ways that can go (and neither is a very intelligent conversation)
FIRE,
“Cuddy needs to be traded plain and simple. he will make 6.75M next year(bad enough considering his performance) but then an absurd 8.5M in 2010 and 10.5 in 2011.”
Unfortunately, all your financial reasons for trading Cuddy are the same reasons why he will be difficult (impossible?)to trade.
He’s going to be paid that money. If the Twins don’t want to pay him, potential trade partners probably won’t want to pay him, so the Twins will HAVE TO pay him.
The only alternative is to keep him as a bench player, and if he ever has a healthy year, he may revisit his 2006 hitting level. Then, he may become an everyday player again.
And if Gomez continues to struggle offensively, Cuddyer may be playing everyday (and soon), injured or not.
It is not a bad thing to have too many good players. It is just like in elementary school when one has four girls competing for the same guy (known from experience). However, to manage them and keep them all producing is no easy task - this much is readily observable. Cuddy may have to DH once in a while, alternate with a Gomez or Span once in a while, or start hitting lots of home runs to prevent from being traded or released like David Ortiz was in 2002 (although it is doubtful that Cuddy will come back to haunt us as much as Ortiz did). and on Liriano — he should be brought up one month ago — why not put the best team out there, instead of a team that still is inconsistent?
Too many talented outfielders… it’s a good problem for the Twins to find themselves in. The Twins just traded FOR Young and Gomez- they’re not going anywhere anytime soon. Cuddyer’s not going anywhere either, between the injuries, salary, and being the sort of team leader. It seems Span is the most obvious choice to be traded, but the Twins would have to get a pretty good offer to let him go. I say just keep all four of them in the game and DH Cuddyer often… and Young from time to time.
sane I was thinking sending Cuddy to Mariners for Beltre as replacement for Ibanez.. obviously more would have to go their way.. just a thought.. something like that would be plausible.. looking at Mariner’s salaries they like to throw alot of money at terrible/overated players.. Cuddy would look like a steal to them
Not saying that I am a big fan of this, but I see Span being moved at the deadline if we are to make a big splash. Span and one of our young pitchers might be exactly what it would take to get a quality player like Atkins from teh Rockies.
Not saying this will happen, but IF we are to make a big splash, I don’t see how we avoid moving Span.
first of all cuddy is on the dl and will be until thur which is the trade deadline (without waivers). second his contract is going to make it nearly impossible to trade him, his salary in 09 and 10 are way higher than his past production. if his first comeback is any indication it would take him a couple weeks to get back any swing, so it would appear span will have plenty of time to prove himself. when and if cuddy comes back he can replace monroe and pinch hit and dh with an occasional start. next spring they can sort the of out.
somewhat nice problem to have Young,Gomez,Span,Cuddy,Kubel for the 3 OF spots and DH.. it would seem 1 has to go though
Please stop the madness on Beltre
Why do people think other teams want our Junk?
Its very annoying to read that crap…
the only way to get Beltre/Atkins or anyother decent 3rd baseman is by giving up a decent pitcher.
That is not boof or Livan or Bass. Even if we pakcage all three we would still not get Beltre.
We would have to trade blackburn/perk/F-bomb/slowley/baker
AND cuddy.
Not worth it.
For anyone in Cleveland who actually cares about the Indians, Eric Wedge should officially be on the hot seat (if he wasn’t already).
I could not believe me eyes when they didn’t put Morneau on base after the 3-1 count…they probably should’ve walked him at the outset!
Thanks, Eric.
Cuddy should be the rightfielder when he is healthy…period….Let Gomez and Span fight it out for the centerfield job, may the best man win!…right NOW Span is the guy, Gomez WAS the guy a few weeks ago. That is the way it goes with young guys. To throw Cuddy under the bus for getting hurt is nuts!
If you want Span in the lineup daily, which I do, move him to LF when Cuddy comes back and have Delmon DH, he looks about like Manny in the field anyway.
Fire,
No politics here. If I were running for office, I’d tell you: “I have a track record of heading off such political talk on this blog, and will continue to do so — to the best of my ability and with the help of Congress, er, commenters.” Just using the RNC as a point on the calendar.
All,
I’m not sure that having 4 or 5 playable outfielders is a problem. I wouldn’t be surprised to see Gardy try Young/Span/Cuddyer at some point, if the finger is really healing. It’s a lot better situation than having Tyner or Rondell as your best option in left.
So whats going to happen with Everett i read that his rehab assignment ends today.
I bet if someone needs a defensive shortstop for late innings, the Twins could get a low prospect for him.
BC…Lamb get’s released? Oh wait, he can’t. He was the bullpen catcher yesterday! I guess we need him afterall.
Jason: I think E. Wedge took a page out of Gardy’s managing book in that instance! (you know, when we should have walked Manny Ramirez).
Hey, why dont we just trade Cuddyer for Manny??
CH says:
July 28th, 2008 at 10:13 am
Cuddy should be the rightfielder when he is healthy…period….Let Gomez and Span fight it out for the centerfield job, may the best man win!…right NOW Span is the guy, Gomez WAS the guy a few weeks ago.
you contradict your own point “may the best man win”. indeed let cuddy prove he is better than the other options and win his job back. he has done nothing this yr., before the injuries, to prove he is a better option.
Am I the only Twins fan who’s tired of hearing about these fantasy trade ideas year after year…
Can we all agree to end the speculation, since we know they aren’t going to make a major move?
Ggookguy/CH: “the best man wins” philosophy would be nice, then we would actually see Liriano up and in the rotation and Livan at the airport with his bags packed…
Just sayin’….
We’ve got 5 good young outfield options. A solid young starting staff. 2 stars at catcher and first base. We’re solid at 2nd now. Our bullpen in ok but has room for improvement. This team has a lot of potential. I’d hate to trade away our future depth and possiblities. Maybe its time to drop Lamb, Everett, and Monroe and see what the young guys can do.
the next series is pretty critical. If the Twins sweep they will be 1.5 games in the division lead and there are 4 days remaining before the trading deadline. All cylinders have to be clicking and the team needs to do things that they have not been successful this season:
The hitters need to be patient with junkball lefties (3 out of 4 Sox pitchers)
The pitchers need to stop throwing the gopher ball and maybe think about pitching a couple tight but out of the strike zone to home run hitters (Dye, Quentin, Thome)
Gardy and his coaches need to outmanage the opposition and manage the game (e.g. not making mistakes like not pinch hitting Mauer for Redmond late in the game last night)
Bill Smith and the front office needs to go out and get some help for this team. Bass/Boof/Everett/Monroe/Cuddyer/Redmond/
Punto/Reyes/Breslow/Buscher
and everyone in the minors not named Valencia/Revere/Soto/Delaney/Slama should be made available.
As far as the remarks about trading Gomez go, here is my take: If the guy was where most 22 year olds were (in A+ or AA and putting Revere-like numbers) everyone would have him in their “untouchables” list… give him some time. An outfield with Gomez LF, Span CF and Young RF would not be that bad next year…
I like how Howard said “playable”.
I noted you didn’t say “good”, there, Howard, and I’d agree with you. Of course, I’m not sure we have the opinion on Cuddy, as I’m in the camp of “1 good year out of 4….”.
If we are going to speculate on a trade….let’s focus on someone we might actually have a shot at….
Doug Mient-kie-wicz
Doug Mient-kie-wicz
On the upcoming schedule…
IF the Twins perform like they did in the last four-game series against the White Sox, no one’s going to care about that huge road trip during the RNC because it simply won’t matter–we’ll have long moved on to the Vikings by then!
One step at a time, friends.
Trade talks, ha, I just ignore them whenever the “Twins” are mentioned because we were never going to trade for anyone this year.. wishful thinking by most.
the team could make some moves internally that would dramatically improve the team in a hurry… you cut your bad moves and accept them as failures, holding on to overpaid players who aren’t contributing is foolish and will probably make it harder in the clubhouse for the younger players… Everett needs to be released as well as Monroe… Lamb is a decent enough bat off the bench that you can keep around… Bass needs to go and something needs to be done w/ Livan.
This is probably wishful thinking on my part, because if the Twins actually made moves that made sense, I’d have a stroke from shock!
MarkW…
Are they really going to bring Everett back to this team? IF so, will our infield look like this:
1B Morneau
2B Casilla
SS Everett
3B Punto
If so…either you’re looking at a four-way 3B platoon with Punto, Harris, Buscher, and Lamb…or you a complete jumbling of the infield.
Point being, the one thing the Twins could do at the deadline is eliminate some of its dead-infield weight.
jason,
You can put your Dougie Twins jersey up for sale on e-bay.
Its just not happening!
Re: Everett
there are reports today from the west coast that the Dodgers are interested in Everett, which is fine and great; however, unless there is the beginning of a package that might include someone like Garciaparra or LaRoche, it might not help the team this year.
thrylos98 - you needed to add:
and Gardy will part the Red Sea also!!
the list you provided demonstrates just how much has to go exactly right for the Twins to truly be contenders..
No way they should bring him back… it’s probably the easiest of any other move to release Everett.
I think you’ll still see a lot of Punto at SS and a mixture of Harris/Buscher at 3B… Lamb should be a player off the bench, not much more (they can figure out what to do with him after the season)
…I think you have to drop Monroe as well…with Span producing as he is, whenever Cuddyer gets back, there just isn’t room for him, IMO, he’s the odd man out (plus he’s been stinking it up pretty bad - minus the bloop double in Cleveland)
My guess is they just release Everett unless he agrees to stay on the DL until the rosters expand in September. There isn’t that much left on his contract.
Thrylos: I think getting rid of him helps the team plenty this year!
Sorry, I didn’t think it was such a bad signing (consdering the other options) but he’s been a complete bust and has been injured… if you can get ANYthing for him, do it.
I would consider it a win if Twins can get any live body for Everett,Lamb,Livian
What was Everett making like 4 mil this year? I agree saam either he gets cut or traded for a low level prospect.
it might not help the team this year.
Even if they dumped Everett for a bag of balls, it helps the team this year by not forcing them to make room for Everett on the roster.
Simliar to how trading Bass or Livan (or any of the much maligned pen pitchers not named Nathan) wouldn’t neccesarily bring anything back…but WOULD open up a roster spot for Liriano.
Addition by subtraction.
Sorry, I didn’t think it was such a bad signing
I didn’t think Everett was a bad signing at the time. Mostly because I figured Young’s bat in the lineup would be able to make up for Everett’s production.
When that didn’t pan out, the Everett signing turned into a bust.
While I’m on the subject, I still hate the fact the Twins went and got Lamb. It should’ve been Buscher starting from day one this season.
I don’t get all the Cuddy bashing. Give the guy a break, he’s been hurt most of the last two years. When healthy, he’s exactly what this team needs: A productive right-handed bat in the middle of the order.
Here’s a piece of trivia: Before Cuddyer did it, who was the last right-handed Twins hitter to hit 70 extra base hits, drive in 100 runs and score 100 runs?
Answer: Kirby Puckett, 1988. He was third in the MVP voting that year.
Everett makes 2.8M this year Lamb makes 3.5M this year and 3M in 2009..:(
Wow, i think we ALL agree on what to do with Everett… amazing.
I believe he got $2M this year.
Are the lineups ready yet!!
Who’s going to the game tonight?
Span is playing very, very well right now, but he’s no right fielder. Defensively he leaves absolutely nothing to be desired, but he simply doesn’t have enough power to justify playing right field. Obviously, Cuddyer hasn’t really fit that description either so far this year, but Cuddyer’s track record gives him a little more offensive leeway than Span.
Here’s a piece of trivia: Before Cuddyer did it, who was the last right-handed Twins hitter to hit 70 extra base hits, drive in 100 runs and score 100 runs?
Answer: Kirby Puckett, 1988. He was third in the MVP voting that year.
that was 1988 - PRE Steroid ERA.. now those numbers are maybe top 10 for MVP
LOL sane…maybe not, but neither is Beltre or Atkins.
I’m just making a point.
Anyway, in hindsight, the Twins should’ve gone after Dougie (and not Lamb) in the offseason….bargain price and way better player.
Who’s going to the game tonight?
I might act on impulse and run up there yet. They’re doing the AYCE seats right? I’m curious as to what kind of feedback people have been hearing about that promo.
I know they cut it off in the 7th or so, but I’m wondering if people got their fill. (Or at least their money’s worth)
Yeah, Atkins is pretty much a no-go. Reading reports around the web, Atkins is off the table due to the schizophrenic “Are we/aren’t we” going on in Colorado.
It also sounds like Helton’s hurt. So they need Atkins all the more. Does he also play 1B or something?
No cuddy hate here, I just think he’s over rated.
2005 - 10th in AL RF OPS (taking out guys w/o enough ABs to matter)
2006 - 5th
2007 - 9th or so (lots of guys in the 100-200 ABs in RF that year)
2008 - 9th or 10th.
So, 1 good year out of 4.
I think Gardy’s going to have to have a talk with Cuddy about playing 3B again.
as much as many like to write off gomez (who imo needs to slow down) compare:
gomez; .248 ave, 5 hr, 33 rbi and .282 obp.
ellsbury; .265 ave, 5 hr, 27 rbi and .331 obp.
crisp; .248 ave, 5 hr, 23 rbi and .307 obp.
melkey; .250 ave, 8 hr, 35 rbi and .305 obp.
looks like all the speculated trade offered cf are about the same.
Funny thing at the Twins website - Tuesday night’s starter is listed as TBA, though it should be Perkins’s turn.
If Cuddy’s numbers aren’t good enough for RF…what would that make them for a 3B?
Well, Liriano can’t start on Tuesday. That is way too soon after yesterday’s minor league start. It is odd, though.
Tuesday night’s starter is listed as TBA, though it should be Perkins’s turn.
*gets knocked over by trade winds*
….
People please give up all this talk about trades, its just not going to happen! Instead let’s support our team as they punish the White Sox like they did to us the last time we were there. even with all this dead weight players on this team that for some unknown reason,(BS) Bill Smith can’t get rid of any of them. Let’s hope for the best with what we got. There will come atime say after this season we can all chew out (BS) for his dumb decisions….
I wonder if the Twins are going to move Perk to the bullpen. I doubt they’ll trade him.
I say anytime we have a player get hurt or is in a slump we trade him and somehow package this player with Boof or Lamb.
I should ask, what are the other starters listed? Is it JUST Perk’s start or is it “TBA” through the whole series?
Just Perk. Tonight is Slowey, Wednesday is Livan, and Thursday is Baker. Tuesday is the only one TBA.
Ben: Perk would be good out of the pen, but to move him before his Tuesday start would leave a hole in the rotation. (Unless the Twins skipped a starter on their off day last Thursday)
Liriano couldn’t pitch Tuesday after starting Sunday…
It’s certainly odd. Just yesterday FSN has all four games lined up.
Everett to the Dodgers?
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?entryID=3508008&name=mlb_trade_deadline
ESPN.com still has Perkins in tomorrow.
Cuddyer issue: I think he’s a slightly above avg defender in RF, and he’s been slightly below avg offensively for RF (see Jermaine Dye as above avg)
Atkins - I think he can play some 1B
T says: the all you can eat seats, here’s what I’ve heard and read about them. They only had one concession stand open, the food items are smaller sizes than what you would normally get if you were paying, you can only take 2 food items and 1 drink item at a time… I read it took 2 guys almost 3 innings during the game to leave their seats to go get “seconds” and come back, due to the one stand, they later opened another stand… I think they’ll have a little better operation this time around, but still… if you say ALL YOU CAN EAT, you better mean it.
GGguy: the numbers are similar, but 20-50 pts in OBP sticks out… really it comes down to patience, not striking out once every 4 ABs. He just shouldn’t leadoff.
t atkins has been playing 1b for over a week and stewart 3b. helton could be hurt not sure.
Shawn, I believe the Twins website over the Eastern Sports Programming Network. Maybe Boof has a spot start on Tuesday, preparing for Liriano’s return?
What in the world would the Dodgers want with Everett? Aren’t they in the playoff hunt?
Thanks for the heads up on the AYCE, Mark. I was worried it may be something like that.
You don’t trade Cuddy. Period. You rotate the outfield.
On the road you DH Cuddy with Gomez in Center and Span in right. At home You have Span in Center Cuddy in Right and DH Kubel, or Monroe depending on matchups and Gomez sits.
Lamb goes to make room for Cuddy.
Buscher at 3rd, Harris at short unless there’s a lefty then it’s punto at short Harris at 3rd.
Lirano is called up and Blackburn becomes 8th inning guy.
There it is. The blueprint for the rest of the season.
Memo to the Dodgers - Take Everett, please!
“GGguy: the numbers are similar, but 20-50 pts in OBP sticks out… really it comes down to patience, not striking out once every 4 ABs. He just shouldn’t leadoff.”
i agree 100%!
Not that there is any legit talks of moving him back there, but how was Cuddyer defensively at 3B when he was there a couple years back?
If Perk’s start is suddenly TBA, it wouldn’t be to move him to the pen. As that would mean a guy like Boof would be taking the ball in the interim AGAINST the Sox. (I don’t know about you, but I trust Perk more than Boof against the Sox)
Liriano won’t be ready until Friday. So they’ll make that callup official likely Thursday night, just in time for him to arrive and pitch Friday.
If Perk’s TBA is a sign of anything, it’d be that HE’S being traded. Not a pen guy.
SI says the Rockies are buyers now and not sellers
Ben: that actually makes sense, if Liriano is coming up, I’ve assumed it would be Perkins moving to the pen (he has the most relief appearances) and our FO and Manager are too stubborn to move Livan from the rotation… I’m suspect of giving Bonser a spot start, but crazier things have happened!
Seriously T… not sure what the Dodgers are thinking, they dont have anyone in AAA that’s a better option??
Also, for those wondering if the Twins care more about ticket sales…what better shot in the amr than to promote Friday night as the triumphant return of Liriano?
If the Twins play the Sox well enough, they get boosted sales from a Friday night + boosted sales from a closer divisional race. Put Liriano’s return on top of that and you maybe get a sell-out (or at least MASSIVE walk ups)
If they don’t do well against the Sox, you still have Friday boost + Liriano boost.
T: they probably just do this crap to make us all crazy…
All speculation right now, but you gotta think Liriano is called up by Friday…
Maybe they just slide everyone up 1 day and Liriano starts Friday?
No no no…this doesn’t make sense.
If they’re simply DFAing somebody in the pen (Bass for example), then they can do that whenever they want.
Why would they do it now if it was simply to bring up Liriano? He’s not even going to be ready until Friday.
Putting Perk in the pen forces Boof to the rotation, which is a WAY lesser chance of going well.
The only way this makes sense is if Perk is the guy being dealt, or if they’re doing a LOT of shuffling and we’ve got a new starter coming in.
I don’t think there’s been ANY talks of the Twins shopping for a starter…which means the only option that makes sense is Perk is potentially in the middle of trade talks at the moment.
I don’t understand all this heat Cuddyer takes on this blog… People are probably frustrated with the injury and all but I don’t think this organization can afford to get rid of one of 3 or 4 guys on the whole team who at least have the potential to hit 20hr/100rbi… we’re just talking about 2006 here when he exceeded those numbers. Contract year yes, but really, the Twins should not be trading away (potentially) live bats.
t i think you have it right if he was going to the pen it’s be after liriano was up here like the weekend, he may have an injury, however. nice if we could get some insight from the trib guys. doesn’t make sense to start boof in this big of a series!
Maybe they just slide everyone up 1 day and Liriano starts Friday?
Doesn’t that put the whole rotation on four days rest?
the pitching may be an oversight…. in a series preview article on twins.com it also has Thursday as TBD
Man T, i just dont see a trade happening… confusion officially reigns!
…yeah, after I think about it, it doesn’t make sense to give Boof the start over Perkins if he’s just being moved to the pen…
cripes, what the crap is going on!?
however. nice if we could get some insight from the trib guys.
Like Shawn says, it could just be a mistake. It’s something that they may note now that we’ve brought it up…but I doubt they’d catch that on their own.
I’m sure the Stribers don’t go to the media site daily to check that kind of thing. But now that we’ve noticed it they could start asking around about what may have happened.
I’m not saying Perk being on the block IS what’s happening, just that I think it’d be the most likely scenario if that were the case.
4 days rest - i think just for the week until the off day next Thursday, but yeah, dont know why they’d do that either.
As Shawn in Btown says, I think it’s just an error on the website or someone is pulling a fast one on us.
How about the Twins atleast make a minor trade for somone like reliever Jason Frasor from Toronto. A few weeks back La Velle mentioned him.
He has a high strikeout rate and throughout his career he has allowed fewer hits then innings pitched. His weakness seems to be that he walks a few more batters than you might like.
I like the idea that he would be going from a hitters park to our pitchers park. Maybe Rick Anderson could improve his control a bit?
He might be a good fit to fill the 8th inning role the team needs to fill without having to give up alot.
Five Man Rotation = 4 days rest
Whether or not Perkins was in trade talks, he would remain in the rotation.
IMO, TBA means NADA!
By the way, was anyone else thoroughly annoyed by FSN doing their studio show from Wisconsin Dells?
What the heck was that? You think YES Network would broadcast from Martha’s Vineyard?
Not that I really look to that crew for ANY baseball insight at all whatsoever, but I still found it annoying.
I can’t believe all the kool-aid drinkers here….this year’s Twins are a .500, third-place team. They are in their current position only because of a soft schedule to-date that will begin to bite them now. When all is said and done, they will be 8-10 games off the division pace.
The Twins outfield battallion is a little above average overall. Teams that have “five options” in the outfield do so only because they don’t have three good ones. Every Twins outfielder has a major deficiency:
Cuddyer - durability.
Kubel - lefties, defense.
Young - inattentiveness in field, predictability on 1st pitch, lack of team attitude.
Gomez - he’s Carlos.
Span - short track record.
all this typing has made me hungry, time for lunch.
Also we should get into some lineup projections with the Whities going with three lefties this series….assuming Go-go is a go….do you give Monroe three starts for this series?
“If it’s one thing people like more than a excuse to bash Punto is an excuse to bash Bush.” LMAO! No excuses needed to bash Bush. He provides enough valid reasons without having to resort to excuses. Now why does Gardy always reflexively remove a starter who is doing well just because they have nearly 100 pitches? Several games have been lost this way and yesterday was nearly another. If the starter is still looking good and strong, why not let them continue?
blah - blah- Denard Span
The Series Preview now has Perkins starting tomorrow. (It was fun while it lasted.)
the rockies have an open spot and are talking calling up guy with a not to impressive record. my prediction is an atkins for perkins trade with other players of course. an uninformed guess but doesn’t cost anything.
t i meant if anything is going on it would be nice to hear what it might be. remember the santana trade we heard from a blogger from ny and got really very little from the local guys as it was happening.
Dose, every player in MLB has a deficiency, not just the Twins outfielders. And I don’t agree that Delmon has a “lack of team attitude” - he’s been pigeonholed by Twins fans because of some stupid stuff before he came over. Since joining the Twins he’s kept his nose clean and he deserves credit for that.
Hey Ben - Charles Manson was kind to animals. Enjoy that kool-aid with your lunch.
You’re obviously not worth my time.
Does anyone understand what Dose just said?
“Does anyone understand what Dose just said?”
Does anyone give a cr-p?
Isn’t Manson still in prison? I don’t think he’s ever met Delmon.
Charles Manson has no place in a baseball blog comments section. Dose, clean it up.
That had to be a White Sox plant.
Yeah, I wouldn’t expect a bunch of seam-head wannabe’s killing time on the job to have a clue.
Enjoy your 3rd-place Twins!
Um…you better check the AL Central standings, OVERdose.
Enjoy your overachieving old Sox. Everyone, just ignore the Overdose.
That had to be a White Sox plant.
Who? Dose? No. I’d wager he’s from the same ilk as herb, Herm, Mr. Baseball.
Of course, is it really a group when it’s just one schizo who got to have a computer in his cell?
By the way, was anyone else thoroughly annoyed by FSN doing their studio show from Wisconsin Dells?
Does Minnesota even HAVE a place like that to broadcast from? Closet thing I can think of is Valleyfair…
But in the long run, I noted it and moved on. There was baseball to watch.
I saw no mention of Delmon Young and Charles Manson together in my Baseball Reference Guide. I consider the matter closed - probably just another sick, twisted Chicago White Socks fan.
I’m buying a new broom for Thursday’s game!!
I consider the matter closed - probably just another sick, twisted Chicago White Socks fan.
Or you.
t3h Twins r dum! evrybuddy pay atenshun to mee!!!!!!
Man that strange fellow sure was strange. And certainly wasn’t me.
This is ridiculous. I’ll see you guys when the game blog opens up.
Charles Manson is in prison, but that doesn’t prevent him from commenting on this blog.
In fact his moniker is……
tomjh, I wouldn’t expect much better…
In fact, I’d probably consider this to be the call before the store. Especially once the lineups get posted.
*calm before the storm*
Freakin’ mondays.
“You don’t have to be a genius, or even a blogger, to realize that trip will have a major, major bearing on whether the Twins will be playing meaningful games for the final few weeks of the season.”
Howard,
Don’t you mean: “You don’t have to be a blogger, or even a genius….”?
T i think Bert made that call. j/k
Why would you want to trade Gomez? If anything, it means you put Span in RF and Cuddyer at DH. Then you trade (if anyone) Kubel.
i dont think manson and ozzie guillen have ever been photo’d together, hmmmmm
Why trade anybody? DFA Monroe when Cuddy comes back and use five guys for four spots. What’s the problem, again? Two guys sit twice a week, the other three guys sit once a week, depending on match-ups. It’s a good problem to have in the dog days of the season.
Dose of reality was creative.
I’ve never heard that kool-aid thing before.
I’ll bet the Dodgers would love to dump Andruw Jones. I can’t believe how bad he’s been this year.
2-21 NNP since back from DL…that is great grit
Would someone tell me why this guy plays everyday and what would possibly be criminal about playing Busher at 3rd and Harris at short all day. You mean busher against a lefty is a better possibility that LNP batting whatever way he wants.
I know the manager would never get to text him BFF ever again, but why does this guy get 437 chances to show he can hit. I know he is a great glove and a great pinch hitter…but he should rarely bat except in Thursday day games and pinch run in late innings.
Please oh please …elaborate…I know the media won’t so let’s hear it bloggers….what role should he play on this team or could he ever get traded
I’ve never heard that kool-aid thing before.
No kidding. Next somebody will try and suggest the one of us works for Bill Smith (or IS Bill Smith).
Then somebody will make some “Little Buddy” or “BFF” comment about Gardy and Punto.
what role should he play on this team or could he ever get traded
Hmm. I think as everybody’s been saying for…like ever…Punto’s role right now is best off the bench (now that his bat went cold again)
You’re not going to find anybody to trade for Punto. Because he’s only got two months left with the Twins.
What are you people going to do when Punto’s not a Twin anymore? Are you going to jump ship to whatever team he goes to and whine over on their blogs instead?
I assume you mean LNP, Brian, and I totally agree.
With Everett coming back, we’re about to have this problem with our infield:
–Buscher is too young and hasn’t shown enough yet to prove he’s your everyday 3B guy…
–Harris has yet to find a role on this team
–Everett sucks
–Lamb sucks
–Punto is Gardy’s favorite player
I don’t see this as a good thing, folks. I see it as the exposure of yet another gaping hole the Twins have yet to fill….think about it…Tony Bautista, Brett Boone, Nick Punto, ect…they HAVE to fix this thing.
BC, I can. He was that bad last year too. Many, many people predicted this kind of year for him. The Dodgers and some baseball writers didn’t, and now the Dodgers are very unhappy.
cmat: I agree, in general, with your comment. But, would Gomez advance more as a player in AAA, playing every day? That to me is a question that deserves pondering. Most “experts” thought he should start in AAA this year to learn more…
Why not bring in Breslow earlier in relief and before Reyes instead of mop-up only?
Buscher is not young. He’s 27, what should be the prime of his career. He is MLB inexperienced, but he’s not young.
#8 never telling me to “drive in” to continental diamond again = season ticket holder instantly
40,000 tonight going to see 4 separate instances of fake bunt, foul off the face of someone sitting in the front row for strike two, and then an outside pitch on the conrner and we turn around to Tschida like he got screwed over once again.
“dose of reality” confused Charles Manson and Jim Jones re: kool aid…
mike your right he was bad last year but not .160 and only 2 hr’s bad that’s still quite a drop off.
Buscher is too young
Buscher is older than:
Mauer
Morneau
Casilla
Harris
Young
Gomez
Kubel
Span
Am I crazy to think that Bill Smith should call up Kevin McHale *cough*Freddy Hoiberg*cough* for some lessons on how to dump overpaid veterans who simply take up a roster spot? My thinks have changed.
I’m an eternal optimist when it comes to the Twins, but I’m going to turn the tables a bit here, to spark some debate.
How likely do you all feel it is that Buscher(.333/.363/.467), Span (.324/.413/.438), Casilla (.314/.350/.427) will continue to perform at this astronomical rate? If (when?) they level out some - where is the extra production going to come from? Young has been heating up, but Mauer & Morneau have been their typical brilliant selves. Kubel has been about what we expected..
If we end up dropping Livan (doubtful) we’ll have 5 young starters in our rotation. Even with Livan, we have 4. As these kids begin to pitch more innings than ever - do you honestly think they’ll hold up over a full season?
in reading that article about twins not pining for help, it is so very apparent, morneau is asking for help…he wont come right out and say it, but if you read into it just a bit, its so plain and simple he would like to see the twins f.o. make some moves. i am so disgusted that on the eve/day of the biggest series of the year and coming off a rough, rough, road trip (thank god for yesterday)that bill smith has done absolutely nothing….like morneau says, how often do you get to be this close at this time of the year….now is the time to help these kids win. they may never get another chance, you just dont know….again bill smith, i beg you to get off your big ass and get to work and do something for the guys and the fans…we both deserve better than youre giving….you wont last this way…
T: “What are you people going to do when Punto’s not a Twin anymore? Are you going to jump ship to whatever team he goes to and whine over on their blogs instead?”
We can only hope so.
This lack of trading for help is why (among millions of other reasons) Hunter left, and why I was surprised Morneau re-signed. I thought he’d see that the FO always plays for next year, and leave at the first shot.
JC: I think that’s part of the reason no team wants to aquire Punto. The local papers wouldn’t be able to handle the influx of Punto whiners on their servers.
Meanwhile the Trib would LOVE to be rid of him, as they’d be able to free up resources for some legitimate discussion.
But, would Gomez advance more as a player in AAA, playing every day?
I don’t think sitting a couple of days a week is such a problem at this stage in the season. I don’t know what he can learn in AAA. Guys in AAA don’t throw sliders on the outside corner at the knees consistently. If they do, they get promoted lickety split.
This lack of trading for help is why (among millions of other reasons) Hunter left
There are 90 million reasons Hunter left Minnesota. The 8 other guys in the lineup are not amoung them.
If they do, they get promoted lickety split.
With the exception of Liriano, of course.
The Twins new motto for going into 2009: “The better we play, the more you hate us.”
“You’re not going to find anybody to trade for Punto. Because he’s only got two months left with the Twins.”
T: i’d be willing to bet punto will be a twin next yr and the yr after or until toby is ready to come up and take his place. gardy would have a fit if he didn’t have his little buddy around!
Hunter who?
Nice comeback gook. Very original.
It’s a good thing Gardy doesn’t sign the contracts now isn’t it?
Glad to see that all the regulars are hard at work making the economy grow. No shirkers in this group, thank goodness!
I’m actually a beta tetser for the Strib blogs. If you don’t see my posts it means I’m not doing my job…
mj1: you wont last this way…
Hate to break it to you - Terry Ryan was considered amongst the best GM’s in the league, and this was the way he operated, for the most part.
After seeing the Garza/Young trade, I was optimistic about what Mr. Smith would do if we found ourselves in a pennant race. Morneau is not outspoken like Johan was last year - but I do believe that is his way of saying “c’mon man, give us a chance”.
At the same time, this club is going to live & die by the young players. We just don’t have enough “star players” come up through our system, specifically on offense. Look at all the young studs the marlins, brewers, rockies have. Without that infusion of talent from our farm system, we have to trade some of our young pitching to get it, a la Delmon Young *crosses fingers*
well t i think he’ll be a twin next year. we’ll see who is right at a later date.
Gomez should not be in the lineup even without Cuddy. He needs to go to AAA and learn how to hit. Someone please explain to me why you see potential in this guy? Being fast doesn’t make you a great hitter.
Look at all the young studs the marlins, brewers, rockies have.
I wouldn’t trade Mauer and Morneau for any young duo from those teams. Take any four players from those teams and stack them up against the top four position players developed by the Twins and I think you might change your mind.
I’d like to pick up someone who can legitimately make a difference but I have to say that from what I’ve read, the prices teams are asking for anyone of any talent at all is pretty rediculous. Maybe prices come down as you get closer to the deadlines and deals can get made. But I don’t think being unwilling to pay twice what a veteran player is worth in young talent is a fault. If Seattle or Colorado wants one pitcher, that’s one thing… but if they’re asking for a bushel full of the Twins’ top young talent, I’d tell them “no thanks”, too.
Just don’t think it’s fair to criticize a GM without knowing what kind of swaps are on the table. It’s like the idiots who criticize him for not trading Santana for Yankee/RedSox packages that were rumored but never actually offered.
But then, I guess being “fair” isn’t exactly what this place is about anyway.
Being fast doesn’t make you a great hitter.
No, but he beats out a lot more grounders than anyone else we’ve seen, and can turn singles into doubles, and doubles into triples.
I don’t know that go-go would learn more in AAA than he would here. Up here, he’s getting a chance to face the best pitching in the league, with the major-league coaches & major-league hitters. Compared to other 9-hole hitters we’ve had in the past (now that Span/Casilla have locked down the top 2 spots in our lineup), I’d say he’s an upgrade.
well t i think he’ll be a twin next year. we’ll see who is right at a later date.
A LOT of it depends on how Tolbert recovers from his injury. But I don’t see them giving Punto more money to play a bench role, and he’s certainly not earning his current “starter” salary.
“Kubel has been about what we expected..”
Unless you’re Aaron Gleeman, in which case you expected to see a .290 hitter with 25 HR and 95 RBI.
I’m back, what I miss! Looks like kool-aid and charles manson discussions, weird.
T: I hate to say it, but we’ve been known to waste money on mediocre talent before!
I can see us giving him another 2 yr deal at about what he’s making now… Ridiculous? YES. Possible? VERY MUCH SO
Tolbert, IMO, is #1 replacement for Punto next year. Gardy likes him due to his ‘grit and for battling his tail off’. Plus he will do better at a far cheaper price.
I wouldn’t trade Mauer and Morneau for any young duo from those teams. Take any four players from those teams and stack them up against the top four position players developed by the Twins and I think you might change your mind.
I wouldn’t argue that point either. I was referring to “everybody else”. Mauer & Morneau aren’t exactly “young guys” anymore.
The Marlins have a track record of developing a ton of young talent, not just 2 guys. The brewers have Ryan Braun, Corey Hart, Prince Fielder, JJ Hardy, all young studs. Even Bill Hall and Ricky Weeks at least have some pop in their bats. The Rockies? Garret Atkins, Matt Holiday, Troy Tulowitzki, even guys like Brad Hawpe… oh and some guy named Helton still hanging around.
My point is - the Twins can develop young pitching, this we know. But for every Morneau we’ve had (can’t miss prospects who actually didn’t miss), we had 5 Michael Restovich’s, Michael Ryan’s - guys we wouldn’t move at the deadline for the one or two players we needed to get over the hump. If we can’t develop solid young hitting, we need to trade young pitching to get it (see Matt Garza) - I’m just saying Billy needs to do more of that if we’re going to compete in the long run.
I heard from a knowledgable source in LA that the Dodgers and Twins have been discussing a deal that would send Everett and cash to the Dodgers in exchange for Andy LaRoche a right-handed hitting 3rd baseman who has fallen out of favor in LA. LaRoche is projected to hit for power but has not shown it yet. He also has excellent plate discipline, walking more than he strikes out, a character trait that the Twins love.
Jason: I think Kubel will end up with numbers very close to those, he has 13 HRs, I’d say he finishes with around 20-23 on the year… RBI - I dont really care, it’s pointless… but his OBP is .327, w/ 31 walks… BAvg, not a big deal if he hits around .270, he’s there to provide power, which besides Morneau, is all we have.
Unless you’re Aaron Gleeman…
Don’t you have your weekly “Morneau’s the real face” rant to get to?
Unless you’re Aaron Gleeman, in which case you expected to see a .290 hitter with 25 HR and 95 RBI.
Well Kubel is on pace for 21 HR and 84 RBI’s, not too far off that pace. As a career .265 hitter coming into this season, I wasn’t expecting him to hit .290. I was hoping for improvement, but from .265 to .290? Not me.
Forgive me if it’s been talked about already, which I’m sure it has, but does anyone disagree it’s time to bring up Liriano and put him somewhere, rotation or bullpen?
I dont really care, it’s pointless…
Careful what you say there. Because now you’ll be called a moron for dismissing RBIs.
LOL LA GM should be fired if this is true and Billy should have pulled the trigger ..like yesterday!!
Dan, Liriano needs to be moved to the rotation. Stopping him off in the bullpen will only hurt him.
I think the assessment by many that they’re waiting until after the deadline to have as much time as possible to make roster moves before bringing Liriano is accurate.
It’s past time, Dan… but at this point, since Liriano pitched yesterday, there’s no reason to bring him up until he could take the mound again, which would be Friday… and would also be after the non-waiver trade deadline. So no reason not to wait a few more days now.
T: Oh I know, I’ve had that brawl with plenty on here… I’m prepared to go at it if they are.
Dan: I think we are way past bringing Liriano up, as in, we all know it should happen, it’s whether Billy Smith will act on it sooner rather than not at all…
Actually, we feel Thursday night he’ll be getting the call… and starting Friday - cross your fingers!
Dodgers can’t be THAT dumb!
LA GM should be fired if this is true and Billy should have pulled the trigger ..like yesterday!!
No kidding on the LA part. I think Smith didn’t pull the trigger sooner (if this is the case) because he never thought it’d be possible.
I think we can all agree if Smith gets LaRoche for Everett it won’t matter how it turns out because he’s not giving anything up.
Yeah I agree T on waiting until the deadline. I’m not so sure about the rotation. It’s a damned if you do, damned if you don’t type thing, which actually could work out great for us with all the talent we have.
I wouldn’t mind seeing the mentioned “6-man rotation” for maybe two weeks, just to stretch out a few days off, then plop someone in the bullpen. Liriano has been on fire but it is hard to justify him taking anyone’s rotation spot at this point.
“He also has excellent plate discipline, walking more than he strikes out, a character trait that the Twins love”
ummm.. have you watched Twin’s baseball in the last 20 years? this team thinks a walk is a disease!
You know, given the fact that we have so many young arms, perhaps going to a 6-man rotation wouldn’t be a bad idea.
I question how Livan would handle it though - I believe it was Livan who said, after his first start post-ASG, that he struggled early because of the layoff.
Pitchers are nothing, if not creatures of habit.
If the Twins are considering dealing a starter, it would make some sense to keep Liriano down until the deal is done. (Or not done if Smith can’t find a fit.)
“You know, given the fact that we have so many young arms, perhaps going to a 6-man rotation wouldn’t be a bad idea.”
I really like this idea. We have no one in Cy Young contention, no one in legitimate ROY contention, and no plausible 20-game winners, so why not stretch out those starts a little more and see what we can do.
“RBIs are pointless”?
I guess if you consider scoring runs to be overrated that may be true.
Yes T, I do have a “Morneau is the face of the franchise” rant to get to…he won another game for us yesterday!
“he won another game for us yesterday!”
This Canadian Clutch-hitter is worth everything we can give him and ought to be right up there again in MVP voting.
…he won another game for us yesterday!
And your the only one who noticed…
if bill smith is wondering what to do about everett and cash for laroche, he does need to be replaced… he should have said yes the minute LA gm opened his mouth and not give him a chance to change his mind or realize what he just said…i hope thats just rumor, because i couldnt take it if bill turned it down….
“The Case Against the RBI”
Q: What is a hitters goal?
A: To get on base
Runs Scored is a different stat, and just as pointless…
You dont control what the rest of the batters do during the game… If someone is on 1st and you get a hit and they get thrown out at home, is that your fault? I mean, that’s a lost RBI right? No, you did your job, you got the hit… whether someone scores because of it isn’t up to you.
No way the Dodgers do that. While the Dodgers are down on LaRoche, no way the rest of baseball is that down on him. I’d do that trade so fast….
If Smith gets LaRoche for Everett and some stiff prospect (or even decent prospect), he’s GM of the year material.
Speaking of Morneau and MVP…how are the various Derby participants fairing thus far?
I’ve heard Braun has gone absolutely nuts for the Brewers, and I’m sure the world would’ve ended by now if Hamilton were to have gone on a slump.
We’ve seen Morneau for ourselves, and saw Sizemore this weekend…
Doesn’t look like anybody was cursed this time around.
And your the only one who noticed…
ESPN pointed out this was the 2nd time he had a game winning hit against Perez this season.
Steve Levy also pointed out that Span is becoming a regular on web gems/Top Plays.
It was delicious.
I could be wrong but I think Hamilton started the second half a little slow but has done better lately.
Yeah Braun has had a huge July all-around, not just post-ASG.
Hamilton has hit a few bombs since the break - obviously none against us, but mashed a 3rhr against the White Sox, and I saw a highlight for him recently, I believe his 3rd or 4th HR since the break.
i hope thats just rumor, because i couldnt take it if bill turned it down…
If the trade is more than just a rumor, and it ends up “breaking down”. I doubt it’d have anything to do with the Twins backing out.
The only “hang-up” that could delay (if it’s more than rumor) is how much cash.
You dont control what the rest of the batters do during the game
I wouldn’t bother making the argument, it’s been made before and a lot of people turn their heads and ignore it.
Often they return with “Well EVERY hitter has an opportunity for at least one RBI in every AB.” failing to realize that there isn’t a hitter alive who can put one over the fence every time.
They’re the same ones who look at Livan’s W/L and immediately say he’s a great pitcher.
Paul Allen on KFAN this morning was wondering if it’s time to be getting Mauer in the lineup as much as possible. He was saying in Saturday’s game, when we were up by that many, why not rest Mauer and put Redmond in then, and then start Mauer on Sunday?
I think he’s right. His point is that in this stretch where we can’t afford to be giving away any outs or games, we need Mauer’s bat and production every game. I’m all for Redmond’s clubhouse presence, and he really is a top backup catcher in the league, but if at all possible I think we need Mauer in the lineup.
scooter, I was being sarcastic. Jason’s on this kick that apparently nobody in Minnesota appreciates what Morneau does.
And then he argues that the national media doesn’t give him enough love, and that’s also somehow the Twins fault.
As if the national media is anything but a bunch of bandwagon hoppers.
ESPN LOVES Nick Punto. Heck, they comparred a Brian Roberts play to Nick Punto. And he wasn’t even in the Web Gems that night.
why not rest Mauer and put Redmond in then, and then start Mauer on Sunday?
Gardy did that last Saturday against Texas. I was suprised when he didn’t do it again vs. Cleveland.
T: I agree, but I can’t let that slide by without at least a response… if they want me to go on, I will… otherwise I wont bother.
Wait, what do you mean? that Livan IS NOT a great pitcher??! but he has so many WINS!!
The fact that the Twins are contending is pure luck. This team is loading for 2010. They’re not going to trade for a one year rental, and they’re definitely not picking up Beltre’s $12 million contract. Enjoy this run while you can, and think about what a beautiful thing a Liriano, Baker, Slowey, Blackburn and Perkins rotation will be to watch outside.
Right on T - haven’t followed the blog lately to notice the trend.
I think you’re spot on, Dan. You go back to the Redmond line-out with DY sitting on 2nd… if Mauer comes in and knocks him in, and we end up winning the game… how many potential wins like that could we give up? We’re gonna need every win we can get to take this race down.
“think about what a beautiful thing a Liriano, Baker, Slowey, Blackburn and Perkins rotation will be to watch outside.”
All those young arms in late March/early April, freezing in the dugout while the Twins are up and the snow is falling….hmmmm………..
The fact that the Twins are contending is pure luck.
Enjoy this run while you can, and think about what a beautiful thing a Liriano, Baker, Slowey, Blackburn and Perkins rotation will be to watch outside.
I think the fact that these kids are pitching so well NOW is exactly why it will be such a beautiful thing. Luck? Nay. With the 2010 logic, these guys that are producing now are the ones we were counting on to produce come ‘10. In order for them to be the studs we were hoping for, it was necessary for them to take the jump from AAA prospects to legitimate major leaguers, and they’ve done just that.
if Mauer comes in and knocks him in, and we end up winning the game…
Mauer couldn’t PH in that situation, he was already batting 3rd.
…Heck, now that I think back. Mauer had already gotten a hit in that inning and come in on Morneau’s dinger.
Yeah that was the game Gomez impaled himself upon the wall, and Redmond came in to DH I believe because Kubel went to RF and Span moved to CF.
Sidenote: Livan gave up a lot of smoking hard-hit balls Friday night. Taking that into consideration, and seeing how Gomez got hurt saving one of those sharply hit balls, it’s debatable that Livan should be arrested for attempted murder of Carlos Gomez.
I hang my head in shame.
I should have referred to the 9th inning yesterday after Casilla hit the double to left.
Keep that head up scooter I knew which one you were talking about.
dan you are missing the fact that he was eating innings in a way his veteran presence could only do. the fact he nearly put 2 outfielders in the hospital for eating the wall trying to save his rear end is not important.
Gus, I don’t see why they wouldn’t pick up Beltre’s contract, if anything, the contract is what makes him more desirable. He wouldn’t be a 2 month rental, he would be around for a full year, and, assuming it would be necassary, they could always trade him themselves next year.
The contract is large, but it is for a position of need on the Twins, and he is a very good fielder as well.
I don’t see them making the trade, not because of the cost of his contract, but the cost of talent that Seattle would want for him.
BTW, Livan is a good pitcher in the only way that actually matters. I’ll take bad stats with a W anyday over great stats and a L.
My Arrogance Radar is lit up like a Christmas tree. This from Chicago Sun-Times:
Knowing what was coming, pitcher Mark Buehrle gave the media what they wanted Sunday after the White Sox’ 6-4 loss to the Detroit Tigers in front of a sellout crowd at Comerica Park.
”Yes, it’s the biggest game of my entire life,” Buehrle said sarcastically of his start tonight against the Minnesota Twins, who are 2½ games back in the Central Division. ”I’m nervous, I’m scared. I’ve been [going to the bathroom] all day, and I can’t eat. I hope they scratch me so I won’t have to face them.”
Mark Buehrle takes the hill tonight against the Minnesota Twins.
(Chris Sweda/Sun-Times)
» Click to enlarge image
Right-hander Javier Vazquez had another poor outing. He allowed six earned runs and 11 hits in seven innings.
(AP)
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Tigers 6, White Sox 4
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Then he laughed, reminding that while the start against the Twins is big, he has two World Series games on his resume.
That about summed up the attitude in the clubhouse.
I’m always amazed at the geniuses who post here. The inside information they have astounds me. It’s incredible how they know that Punto is Gardenhire’s favorite player just by sitting on their couches at home and watching TV. My guess is that Gardenhire doesn’t have “favorite” players, but he does like players who hustle and give 100%. He also likes defense and Punto happens to fill the bill on both counts. I’m not a huge Punto fan, but I think he gets way more abuse than he deserves on these blogs. Way more. I hope he isn’t back with the Twins next year so he can play for a team who’s fans appreciate him. He seems to be the most hated man in Minnesota just because he had an off year last season and the jackals and hyenas that frequent these blogs just can’t get over it.
No I’m not missing the fact that he ate innings because I was just joking about the murder thing.
I flipped back to the game later and saw he was still pitching in the 8th and made the comment myself that at least we saved our bullpen, and that people would be impressed he was able to buckle down the rest of the way.
Livan is completely hit or miss. We’ve won something like 15 games he’s pitched in this year, yet it’s hard on a team to have to come from behind often like Friday night (just like Radke used to constantly put us in holes early). I like Livan and think it’s worth it to at least keep him ’till the end of the year.
Jeez, Dan what a downer you are 
I’m big on Nick Punto myself. I don’t have any kids right now but I can only hope that when I do and I’m teaching them how to play the game of baseball, there are still guys like Nick Punto on TV where I can show them what it means to hustle for everything and not give up.
With all the computer jocks they have at ESPN they should try and compute an effort/hustle formula and see where players stand, and go by that for salary. Something like that would make Punto one of the highest paid players in the league.
Ugh - Livan. I understand the philosophy behind having an innings-eater in your rotation. I also understand it’s a luxury (assuming FL can come up to the bigs & pitch well) to have 6 SP’s, especially if one goes down, especially given the lack of experience on our other 4 young starters (although FL is getting up there in IP too..).
The problem I have with Livan lies not in his start-to-start inconsistency, but with his inning-by-inning inconsistency. Yes, all of our pitchers have given up the big innning… but when Blackburn has been absolutely lights out for 5 innings, I’m not so worried that in the 6th he’s going to give up 7 solid base hits and 6 runs. With Livan, he can shut down 10 in a row, then give up 5 straight hits.
It’s maddening to watch!
Q: What is a hitters goal?
A: To get on base
Not always. Runner at third, one out. The hitter’s goal is not to walk but to make contact and get the ball past the pitcher. Taking a walk actually reduces the chances of scoring by setting up the double play. Same goes for hitting behind the runner at second with no outs. Making an out increases the chances of scoring in that case. And, yes, I’ve seen all the arguments to the contrary. They’re abstractions from reality.
Punto is a fan favorite, so is Carlos.
Just because alot of commenter’s on these blogs hate him/them, doesn’t mean that the average fan does.
The complaints that are often seen in here are not what you would normally hear if you were going to a Twins game. Heck, when I went to the Twins games in Colorado and in KC, I saw an awful lot of Twins fans, and quite a few had Punto jerseys on. Couldn’t believe it either.
Thanks Dan and Me Too. Then there is still some sanity left in the world.
Wait - they sell Nick Punto jersey’s?
“Taking a walk actually reduces the chances of scoring by setting up the double play.”
Average runs scored per inning by situation:
3rd base, 1 out: 0.983
1st and 3rd, 1 out: 1.243
So taking a walk does not “reduce the chances of scoring.”
Q: What is a hitters goal?
A: NOT to make outs (is another way to put it)
You can’t control the situations, bottom line is you should be looking not to make an out (no matter how “productive”) you are being… you are getting into situational hitting and that’s not what the topic is.. it’s RBI and the over hyped stat that it is… so in the simplest of forms, a hitter should be looking to reach base (not produce an out).
Shouldn’t MORE people on base, INCREASE your chances of scoring MORE runs?
What Tomjh explained as well…
CMATH: you are playing for 1 run in one specific instance of a ballgame…
we are discussing the RBI stat and how much a hitter actually has no control over whether he gets one or not (except HRs) but that’s another story.
bottom line is producing a run.. and that is not overhyped.. Scott Baker knows first hand that runs scored is not overhyped, he has lost 3 times 1 - 0 this season
Fire: once again, the only time an individual hitter can PRODUCE a run is by hitting a HR… you can’t just produce a run if nobody is on base, that’s why their job is to GET ON BASE (and not make outs).
You do this enough during a game, you score runs…
Scott Baker should also know that he shouldn’t look at his W/L record to know he pitched well… but you have proven that not getting a WIN doesn’t mean you sucked at pitching correct?
then can you say the same about a hitter having a good day despite not “producing” any runs?
your logic is dizzying.. what exactly is your point? the Twin’s offense could produce more runs consistently if they didn’t need 3 singles for every run!! you can’t dismiss 1 - 4 with a HR as being just as good as 3 - 4 with 3 bunt singles and a run scored
Fire: My reply was to Jason above about the stat RBI and it being pointless when discussing a hitter’s productivity and ability over the course of a season.
You are throwing out arbitrary hitting lines that we could argue all day about one being better or more beneficial than the other… that isn’t the point.
My point is someone with 100 RBI during the season is not necessarily better than someone with only 70 RBI… you (as the hitter) dont control 100% when/where/or who gets the RBI.
Why wouldn’t a fan buy a $9.99 #8
t-shirt instead of a $23.99 #33.
As is the case on the field, you get what you pay for!
Mark - how would you propose we gauge a hitter’s ability to impact run production?
What is the most important run statistic there is?
It’s actually an interesting question.
The guy who is consistently being driven in is just as valuable as the guy who is driving him in, isn’t he? You can’t compare a leadoff hitter to a cleanup hitter - most likely the cleanup hitter is batting with more guys on base than the leadoff hitter is.
That said, the reason the cleanup hitter is batting 4th is because he’s the guy most likely to drive in the runs, isn’t he?
How do you compare one player against another on his team? How do you compare leadoff hitters? Some teams are very weak 7-9, so the guy hitting 1 doesn’t have as many chances to drive in runs. Some teams are weaker 3-5, so the 1 hitter doesn’t score as much.
How WOULD you determine most valuable run producer - aka the guy who has the greatest impact on his teams overall runs.
I would leave out run stats entirely, you can’t control the guys after you to hit you in if you are on base (i think we all know that). And you can’t control the guy in front of you to score even if you do get a hit.
OBP, SLG%, OPS, extra base hits, all determine a hitters ability, not to mention HRs and walks.
Give me a hitter, then tell me how many times he comes to the plate and DOES NOT make an out. That tells me 1 thing…then tell me what he is doing to get on base (walking, hitting singles, hitting HRs, etc) That will tell me what kind of hitter he is and probably would go a long way on where he should bat in the lineup.
What about stats such as:
AVG w/ RISP
AVG w/ RISP, 2 outs
OBP/SLG/OPS/etc in critical situations (i.e. 7th inning on, teams within 1-2 runs of each other)
Lets go back to the RBI - for grins. Clearly you’d rather have the guy who drives in 100 RBI’s, with most of them in critical “game-changing” situations, than the guy who drives in 100 RBI’s when, for the most part, the game is out of reach, correct?
I think in the long run, those people who have become Carlos Gomez detractors need to realize that much of his talent is still being developed. Denard Span has spent several years in the minors and even at the beginning of this season, he did not look nearly as polished as Gomez did. Granted Gomez is sometimes over aggressive at the plate and has made a few boneheaded defensive plays, however, he is still performing at a major league level far superior to what many teams field with veteran players in some instances. It is my belief that Carlos Gomez has the potential, not too far off either, of becoming a superstar. The Mets did not want to get rid of him in the Santana trade. Denard Span is going to be a steady force in the Twins line up too, I would be more inclined to see Delmon Young find another position in the Twins lineup rather than talk about getting rid of Cuddyer. Cuddy is a defensive asset for this team, and aside from the injury he has had to his finger this season, he has been a productive player the past 3 seasons. I am really not impressed with Delmon Young, either for his defense or for the sporadic offense we get from him, he can go 3-4 one night and then go 0-3, 1-4, 0-4 and 0-5 in a stretch. Not to mention his me attitude.
Mark and scooter - check out the stat called BaseRuns. It even takes baserunning into account (or tries to). Bill James is crazy about it.
Well, you are getting into situations now, that not every player finds themselves in enough times to draw conclusions from…
AVG w/ RISP is nice, but it doesn’t paint the whole picture…
Basically you want to see who comes through in “clutch” situations or when the “pressure” is on… thats something you can’t contain in stats, but if you have a good hitter up in those situations, the majority of the time, his numbers will be pretty good, since he’s already a good hitter.
Not making outs is a decent definition, but it doesn’t capture it all. If it were the only important thing, no manager would use the intentional walk, or the sacrifice. Managers do that kind of stuff because they’re playing the odds and the odds change from player to player and situation to situation.
you can also look at VORP and WPA (win probability added)
Both determine a players value over the avg player and how many “wins” over zero a player is worth during the season…
There’s a lot of crazy ways to determine a players value rather than using RBI or Runs Scored…
BaseRuns, I’ve heard some about, but haven’t gotten to into it… My friend is a huge Bill James guy, I’ll have to ask him about it.
Twins need to bring in a juicer. Like the Sox did with Quentin.
Yeah I’ve read the columns on ESPN about VORP and WPA.
I’ve never heard about BaseRuns - will have to check that out.
Long & short of it? Go Twins!
Thankj yoy for being a baseball writer. You write good. I like baseball. Can you please tell the Twins to play good and win the games. thakj you.
CMATH: again, those are specific situations and the “batter” can’t control if his is walked intentionally… you can also sort those IBBs from BBs per player…
anyways, that’s why I said in the “simplest of forms” a batters responsibility is not to make an out…
Yes, gotta finish work and then it’s off to the ballpark…
regardless, I hope we score more RUNS than the Sux tonight!
If the Twins are considering obtaining Hawkins to improve the team in the race for the division championship, things don’t look good at all. All of Billy Smith’s great trade ideas have come up labeled as “STUPID.” I think the Twins organization needs a better mind running the acquisition game. If the team could just trade Bonser, Hernandez, Bass, Punto and Cuddyer for even one quality player, they would be better off this season and next. Hey, when was the last time the Twins got a really good player in a trade during teh season? Don’t expect much from an organization known for having alot of talent, but never able to win the pennant.
And if not, I blame it on Mark & his statistical ways!
Wish I could join ya at the dome tonight - too much work, not enough time.
Mr. Baseball,
I don’t think the Delmon/Harris trade was “stupid”.
The only way the Twins could have traded for a quality player mid-season was to trade Garza (2006-2007) or Liriano (2005). Because those were the players other teams always demanded (unless the FO was lying)
Mr. Baseball I wouldn’t count out Bill Smith quite yet.
I think there are a lot of indications that Delmon Young is going to be a great pickup for our organization. With the young pitching doing as well as it has, having Perkins/DY is much better than Garza/Tyner. That was a trade I don’t think TR would have ever made.
As far as this trade deadline. Our two needs are 3B & Set-up. Virtually every contender could use a setup man (CHW are discussing because of injuries, DET, STL, MIL, CHC, NYY), so that’s a tough place to battle. And 3B? The two we’ve heard about - Adrian Beltre commanded too much (would YOU give up Slowey & a top-tier prospect for somebody hitting about what Jason Kubel is?), Garret Atkins is no longer on the market (Rockies are buyers, not sellers, now).
It’s just not a good market for dealing.
teshara (tiexeira) is on the block, maybe he still has some 3B left in him, if not DH. remember the last time we had a DH? ahh those were the days.
Aaron K, your logic is misguided. It will take a pitcher, perhaps a Slowey, and a CF, plus a hot class A pitcher (Davie or Robertson perhaps) to land Atkins. And that’s a good trade for us. We have those spare parts right now. But there’s NO way that CF is going to be Span. That CF will be Gomez. Span isn’t going anywhere. Gomez is just another overhyped New York prospect that may never pan out offensively. Span is proving himself every day. And there’s next to no difference defensively; they both rock.
Also, keep in mind that Span was appointed the heir apparent to Torii by…Torii himself. And Gardy and Billy respect that wish.
The truth is that the Twins unloaded Santana as a salary dump more than anything. What they got back was just a bonus; it was not instrumental. If it were, they’d have traded with Boston a month earlier and got better players.
If it were, they’d have traded with Boston a month earlier and got better players.
That’s assuming that Boston deal was ever actually on the table. If it had been, they would’ve taken it.
The Twins aren’t the only AL Central team that have yet to make a move. Look at the Sox. With all of their needs, they still haven’t brought anything in either. (Though that could be a different tune by the end of the day Wednesday)
Kenny Williams has gone on record saying the trade market isn’t very good for what he needs at the moment.
I think we can trust BS to make the right move if it’s there. So far that doesn’t seem to be the case.
Do we KNOW that it’s Slowey Seattle wants? Or is it Baker? We just assume that since they want a “young starter” that the Twins can fling Slowey at them and be done.
And now, at least according to national reports, the player everybody is mentioning when the Twins come knocking is Span.
And once again, that’s a guy who’s factoring into the playoff hunt NOW. Twins can’t catch a break.
Howard say’s “Span needs to be batting leadoff and playing everyday”. Agreed. Both Wallbangers need to be on the field for the Twins to be putting their best team on the field. But keep Gomez in center because when he tries to kill himself, he hangs onto the ball and gets it back into the infield! ! !
This is out there I know, but what about a trade for Teixeira…He could play third, if I remember he started out as a 3B. Maybe trade buscher, blackburn/perkins, and a high minor leaguer…He would definitely provide the pop we need and is a huge asset being a switch hitter.
