Life without Casilla. Let’s get at it.
Posted on July 30th, 2008 – 8:29 AMBy Howard
You know, it was going to be a day to praise Justin Morneau to the heavens and mark the beginning of his MVP campaign.
Now, I’m writing about another hand injury. Tolbert… Punto… Cuddyer… and now Casilla. Throw in Adam Everett’s shoulder and it’s been a crummy year for Twins middle infielders and their upper bodies.
Based on Joe C’s blog, Casilla is gone for several weeks for sure and could be gone for the season. The immediate fix is that Everett, who was being asked to go to Rochester, now has a spot on the bench for now. It looks like Punto will be the most-of-the-time second baseman because, for the rest of the middle infield assortment, second base is pretty much their weakest position.
Do not try to make the argument with me that a returned-to-health Cuddyer should get a shot at second. During the one season (2004) when he played a significant number of games at the position, his defensive statistics were miserable. He simply didn’t get to balls and, four years removed from playing there, the thought of him trying to turn the double play or show any instincts there is profoundly unfair.
Today, it’s time for Bill Smith to even out last season’s Luis Castillo mess.
You remember, the trade to the Mets that brought so little in return that players spoke out in frustration. Whether right or wrong, the perception was that the Twins did a salary dump without any regard for improving themselves — immediately or down the road.
For a team that has battled and scrambled and put itself in position to do the unexpected, the front office needs to step up and do better at second base than the options available on the bench. My choices: Get the old man, Mark Grudzielanek, from Kansas City. He’s a .300 hitter who plays better than average defense. He also has a .468 on-base percentage against left-handed pitchers, which means he solves another problem the Twins are having. Or look into Brian Roberts, who’s signed through 2009 with Baltimore, providing Minnesota isn’t one of the four teams on his no-trade list. That’s more of a long shot, even though both are said to be available. (Kansas City needs to be convinced to make a trade within the division.)
(Afternoon update: Joe C reports that the Orioles have taken Roberts off the market, according to sources.)
I like Grudzielanek because if Casilla can return in a month, he’d provide both offensive and defensive depth on the bench. With Roberts, the Twins could look at playing him at second base (at least through next season) and moving Casilla to shortstop.
Otherwise, the pickings are slim. There are a lot of mediocre players who may have had a big moment or two during their careers but wouldn’t bring any more to the Twins than their current assortment. Luis Rivas got three hits for Pittsburgh last night? Big whoop. That brings his OBP to … .287. Don’t try to sell me the Marco Scutaros or Augie Ojedas of the world. I’d stick with Punto and pray.
Stay away from Jose Lopez in Seattle, who can hit but fields haphazardly and is said to have a penchant for bad mistakes, and Mark Ellis of Oakland, who has a sore shoulder and a big-time slump in progress. You may hear those names in the hours until tomorrow’s 3 p.m. (non-waiver) trading deadline. But you’ve got to inspect this stuff from all angles.
If you hear hype about Lopez, for example, check out this sad review from the very good U.S.S. Mariner blog.
One other thought. If Casilla’s departure is going to have a negative impact on the Twins offense — and without getting Grudzielanek or Roberts that seems to be the case — it increases the need all the more for the Twins to improve their bullpen. Fewer runs produced means the late-game margin for error, already small with the current group, has shrunk even more. Late-inning relief help is out there … and the stakes just got higher.
One irony of all this is how Casilla was such a disappointment last season that some people in Twins management had serious concerns about how much he’d ever contribute as a major leaguer, concerns that seemed justified when he was called up from Rochester in May despite a .219 batting average.
Today, his injury is going to be widely viewed as a setback to the Twins post-season hopes.
It kind of reminds me of a couple of years ago, when the same thing pretty much happened to Francisco Liriano and it seemed like all hope was lost. Remember that?
other people are here too
223 Responses to "Life without Casilla. Let’s get at it."
Nice blog, Howard! Yes, it’s time for Billy Smith to let this hit him in the gut so he can drum up a trade but without giving up the farm. Grudz would be a nice addition but how often do teams trade with a division ‘rival’?
One thing that Nick Punto allows the Twins to do here is add almost any infielder instead of having to target a second baseman specifically. It wouldn’t be a stretch at all to add someone like Beltre and have Punto move to second to cover for Casilla.
Hopefully it will be a moot point, and Casilla won’t have to miss much time at all, but realistically, I think this really forces Billy the Kid’s hands.
Good observations Howard. I agree that suddenly 2B seems to be the biggest hole (especially with the gaping maw that it leaves in the #2 spot in the lineup)
The only downside is that Twins are suddenly desperate for a 2B and don’t have much time to work the phones. Teams know this…which means they could go ahead and ask the moon/stars for the guys the Twins are shopping for.
It’d probably take more to get Roberts, but that’s also the better bet. For the same reasons the Twins didn’t end up with Blake.
The Indians (and now the Royals) wouldn’t want to give the Twins anything that would help them out. And the Twins wouldn’t want to give the Royals anything to help them out.
Especially when you consider (in both situations) the Twins would be aquiring an older veteran comparred to the youth they’d likely give up to bring him in.
Which means the new guy would help the Twins knock around the Tribe/Gentry for a few years, but then after that the Tribe/Gentry would use their new guys to konck the Twins around.
If you think it feels ugly to get beat by Ponson, Hawkins, or any other former Twin…add to that the ugliness you’d feel if the Twins were directly responsible for that player being in that uniform.
Like if the Twins end up being the Wild Card and (god forbid) have to face Matt Garza in Game 1 of the ALDS. I can already hear the teeth gnashing and clothes tearing…
Royals are so bad can it really be considered a rival? if I were their F.O. I would trade with anyone to get better
Remember that? That was not awesome. I don’t know if this is at that level. There is a chance he could be back for the postseason, judging by Tolbert’s recovery.
But if the Twins can get either of those guys without mortgaging their future, I would say they should. Punto can hold his own in the field. But I hate the thought of him hitting second everyday. He just does not make enough contact to be a good second place hitter. But you could plug Roberts or Grundy into the second slot and not miss a beat at the plate, while losing just a bit in the field.
I have been a Brian Roberts wonk for sure and would welcome a trade for him. Otherwise a SS or a 3B upgrade would diminish the loss at 2b
While I don’t disagree with what you wrote I think the FO can be flexible if a better situation exists at 3B. If you can find a top notch righthanded bat to play third (Insert favorite bandied-about hot corner candidate here)then I am fine with Punto playing second and Harris, backed up by Everett. Punto is a credible 2nd baseman and if his offensive shortcomings are overcome by (insert favorite bandied-about hot corner candidate here.)
The main point, though, is that the FO now has to DO something to either send the message to the healthy that they believe that the team can contend or they can send the same message as last year and do nothing or one of their classic underwhelming mini-moves.
I think it would send a very poor message to stand pat even if you don’t believe in the chances this year…a lot of these guys will be here next year and the year after. The FO really needs to show the players and coaches that the FO is an active part of the organization and want to contend as much as they do. A repeat of Ryan’s actions last year will destroy this team’s mojo, maybe even for beyond this year.
The Reds have a bunch of guys who would be decent to good as starters, such as Jeff Keppinger and Jerry Hairston. Keppinger in particular is a good player, but he has had a hard time since returning from injury earlier in the year. Still, it might be worth a try.
I know Ellis is a little dinged up but that just means you could get him for a little cheaper. He’s proven that he handles the pressure of a playoff push well and is a great defensive 2B. Plus he’s a South Dakota guy that would love to play for the Twins.
Roberts is obviously the first choice but he is going to cost much more than the Twins would be willing to give up.
Are there any SS out there that the Twins could get for a modest price?
the Twins need to just stick with plan A and continue to try to get Beltre. The Twins biggest weakness is a power hitting righthanded batter. Beltre fits that criteria, espicially at 3B. You put Harris at SS, Punto at 2nd, and move Young to the 2 hole. Young is hitting close to .300 now, and hitting behind Mauer and Morneau should get him better pitches to hit.
Lineup
1.Span
2.Young
3.Mauer
4.Morneau
5.Beltre
6.Kubel
7.Harris
8.Punto
9.Gomez
Dont forget the Twins biggest need. A hitter with power.
If your KC you trade with whoever will send help, but if your the Twins…you don’t want to do anything that would help KC out of the gutter (like sending them a young starting pitcher)
If your KC you trade with whoever will send help, but if your the Twins…you don’t want to do anything that could help KC out of the gutter.
this is just another reason to take a dose of reality and “stand pat” Twin’s have too many flaws to be cured in 24 hours - the Beltre and Roberts trade suggestions require too much talent from a weakened minor league system as it is just for a rent a player that in my mind doesn’t push the team into true World Champion contender status
and hitting behind Mauer and Morneau should get him better pitches to hit.
I think Mauer/Young/Morneau is a better lineup than Young/Mauer/Morneau. The idea being that one of Span or Mauer would be on base already, and Morneau would be hitting behind Young.
Like a lot of people were saying going into this season, Morneau protects Young better than Young protects Morneau.
It’s why I was in support of Gomez/Mauer/Young/Morneau/Cuddyer.
Now I see Span/Mauer/Young/Morneau/TRADE? as a new option.
Here is my 2 cents: losing Casilla isn’t nearly as bad as losing Liriano 2 years ago. Both Punto and Harris have been playing very well this year. Having both of them in the lineup won’t be much of a come down from having Casilla and one them in the lineup. And Everett is a proven defensive wiz and a veteran. Not a bad choice for a backup.
Cuddyer should be given a shot at 2B.
Hank-
Cha-ching!! I think you’re right, losing Liriano killed us two years ago, we still won the division but it would’ve been nice to have him pitching in the playoffs.
Casilla is in a way irreplacable because of all of his tools but Punto is having his best year in awhile and Harris is filling in respectably.
I think this is bad. Punto has been terrible since he came back from his DL stint. Hopefully, it is just a slump, and not an indication he is dropping back to last year. My fear is that the FO will do nothing, and that the players will think “well, here we go again. This FO just won’t do what it takes”. While they won’t consciously do worse, I fear a let down coming.
I had been advocating a trade before the injury. This just reinforces my belief they should do something. While I don’t want to give away the farm, when you have a chance you should go for it.
T I like the idea of Young breaking the M&M boys up, but then realize situations like last night, Morneau would never have gotten up to bat. Young would have been trigger happy.
FIRE THE FINGER DOCTOR!!!
Span and A or AA player for Roberts. Strike when the iron is hot.
Howard,
Cuddyer’s not even on the zone rating link you provided. Rivas is, not Cuddyer.
DevilsAdvocate says:
July 30th, 2008 at 9:01 am
Cuddyer should be given a shot at 2B.
Uh, no. He stinks in the infield, can you imagine his arm in the infield, Morneau would be ducking when he comes up firing the ball. He would be best used as a DH, when ever he comes back.
jama,
There’s a real good chance that Ellis is about to go on the DL.
Can someone give an indication as to how much longer is Tolbert out?
It’s really bad. Casilla was playing good defense and hitting great and he had done it for a decent stretch. Real Bad news now unless someone else besides Morneau/Mauer can get really hot. I doubt the Twins have what it takes to get Brian Roberts or would even give up what would be required or take on the salary even though they have money on hand. It’s Adam Everett or bust…..
A lot of us have been advocating a trade before this injury, and it’s because we all agree we need it.
Although we have been hitting these lefties better lately, we could use a power right-handed bat. And was anyone else nervous last night when the game was turned over to the bullpen?
We need some help and the FO needs to do something. You’ll hear the excuse “we’re supposed to be rebuilding so they’re not going to give anything up now.” I say BS. Competitive in 2010? Would it be the worst thing to make a long playoff run or even bring in a championship while still at the Dome? I’m really sick of our methods of giving away good talent for the future. Because once those “future” prospects get good, we trade them for more future.
Twins get a 2nd baseman (or anybody for that matter) to improve themselves for a playoff run? What fairy tale are you folks reading? When is the last time they did that? Shannon Stewart? They got lucky with him. The last one I can remember is Don Baylor in “87″
look if casilla is out forget it he is one of the main reasons they have been winning since he was called up cant sustain all these injuries i am so f-ing sick of them twins go on the road for most of the next month what a loss to lose casilla injuries just totally suck
I hope Alexi can come back in 2 weeks. To lose him for the remainder of the season could be devastating.
I won’t believe its Adam or bust. They have to do something. This is the last stand, if they don’t trade for someone the Fans will have a riot. Good luck selling those tickets. Have faith that with a trade they can do something. Like make the playoffs. Maybe this year we won’t have to face NY!
mbisys…no way would I trade Span, no way.
“Competitive in 2010? Would it be the worst thing to make a long playoff run or even bring in a championship while still at the Dome?”
?? the team is competitive now?? isn’t half a game out of first competitive??
the rest of what you said is a fairy tale like I read my 5-year old
Dan says:
July 30th, 2008 at 9:13 am
And was anyone else nervous last night when the game was turned over to the bullpen?
Hell ya, Crain makes me pee my pants everytime he comes in and Matty G, well lets just say I like to close my eyes and hope for the best.
GOD I MISS PAT!!!
“?? the team is competitive now?? isn’t half a game out of first competitive?? the rest of what you said is a fairy tale like I read my 5-year old”
What are you trying to say? I never said they weren’t competitive right now, I was bringing up what the FO has indicated-but-not-actually-said by saying we’re playing for 2010.
As far as the rest, you don’t have any faith in them?
“They have to do something. This is the last stand, if they don’t trade for someone the Fans will have a riot. Good luck selling those tickets.”
fans have proved time and time again they will accept whatever this team does… did you forget the stadium we are building for Pohlad so he can spend more money on the roster? oh wait the team salary is 18M less then last year?? hmm…
Trading Castillo was one of the best moves the Twins made last season. His range had diminished to almost nothing, and he was completely unable to hit for any power as he had in the past. All Castillo was capable of doing was getting infield hits and make plays on balls hit right at him.
Too bad you woke up this morning FIRE, we were having a nice conversation until now. Please go back to bed.
this team is good for the regular season and that should be applauded and respected.. against quality playoff teams sadly Gardy’s (6 - 21 in playoff games) proves my point and his past teams were better then this year’s version - better bullpen,DEF,doing the little things,starting pitching - that Johan guy
Ben I would for Roberts. A proven big time player god for this season and seaosons to come. Natural lead off hitter with some pop. Next year move Casilla to short with Punto as the utility man.
IMHO, Gomez and Span cannot be on the same team. One has got to go.
So because you claim the Twins have had better playoff teams and Gardy can’t win in the playoffs, any thoughts of them making it this year or going deep are foolish tales to teach your 5-year-old?
Mbisys, if either Gomez or Span get traded now there would be a fan revolt. Why can’t they be on the same team? Two young speedy outfielders who have a tremdous up-side.
oh wait the team salary is 18M less then last year?? hmm…
Yay for tired arguments! You forget half this team is still considered indentured servants of the Twins club.
Unless you like the idea of throwing a multimillion dollar contract at Gomez after only half a year.
Santana and Hunter were screwed up BEFORE the new stadium came. Nothing was going to stop that.
Weren’t people with this argument also bashing the loss of Silva? Boy…that sure proved to be an accurate assessment.
The Twins have yet to prove this season they can hang with teams outside their division (abysmal AL East record from what I recall)
I agree with Plunkton, they can play on the same team, I think Gomez is going to miss Alexi though, more then we want to realize. But I think Gomez can hit 2nd and help the team.
Trading Castillo was one of the best moves the Twins made last season.
Logically, yes it was. But from a fan perspective (well, some fans) and a player perspective it was seen as packing it in for 2007. (But honestly, that team was far beyond a “bat away” as many claimed)
But in the long run, it allowed the Twins to control what they got back (vs. not getting anything when he walked), and gave Casilla a chanc eto get some regular play. He apparently got all the suck out last season in his callup so when it came time for this season he was ready to roll.
Could you imagine Casilla in the everday lineup if he were playing like he did last year? Boy…he’d make Punto look like a God.
T stop posting
Sure Span and Gomez can play on the same team, but how do they both fit on this team with everybody healthy? Young isn’t going anywhere and Cuddyer is signed through 2010. Outfield rotation? Cuddyer as an expensive DH platoon partner? And no, I don’t see Cuddyer going back to the infield.
Good summary, Howie… No doubt, in light of the injuries the Twins need to look at changes in the middle infield. They can’t afford to have several light hitters in the lineup or it will drag down Morneau and Mauer as teams pitch around them to get to the easy outs. I don’t expect the Twins to get a grade A replacement for Casilla ~ their MO has been to talk, talk, talk and then have the GM spew their reasons for not making a major move. The Twins are looking to be competitive…mission accomplished there. The question is, do they want to move to the elite level in baseball or not and I think the answer is obvious. Stepping back and looking at baseball as a whole, I’d have second thoughts about going after some of these overpaid veteran players. Baseball is in trouble long term with only a select few teams having the money to form all star teams. Its tough to watch the yanks and others buy their way to a pennent.
I agree they can play on the same team, it actually makes our young, quick outfield look good for the future. But Gardenhire needs to stop treating Gomez like a 8-year-old little leaguer - If the guy is slumping, move him in the order. If he’s playing terribly, take him out. I realize he is a fulltime starter and will hopefully improve on his already great skills, but Gardy pampers Gomez way too much, like when he wouldn’t move him out of the leadoff spot because it would hurt his confidence. Anybody with decent knowledge of baseball knows that the 9-hole is VERY valuable; once you’re on base, you’ve got the top of the order driving you around. As a paid player Gomez should go with whatever Gardy dictates.
I agree with Howard, it’s time for a trade.
I just don’t see an infield of Buscher / Harris (3B), Everett (SS), and Punto (2B) getting us to the playoffs, but that’s just me.
Another thing, I know he went 2-for-4 last night, but Nick Punto batting second has to stop right-the-heck now! There’s a lot of ways you can re-configure the lineup; knowing what we know about Gardy’s stubborness about moving Mauer away from the coveted three-hole, I say that means you put a guy like Brendan Harris or Go-go in the two spot to replace Casilla.
Alexi Casilla had a tremendous run for us…don’t worry, Lexi, 2B will be there for you when you return in 2009.
Michael Cuddyer…as far as I’m concerned, it’s only a rumor that the guy is still on the payroll (although I’m sure it’s more than a rumor to the Pohlads). I wouldn’t mess too much with the outfield group we have now, but I would advocate a trade for a middle infielder because I don’t think we can do it with the lineup above–not without a tremendous insurgence from Everett upon his return.
What makes things more complicated is I thought we already had a hole to fill at 3B. I do not believe Brian Buscher is ready to take that plunge.
A big start from Livan tonight should cheer this team up!
A big start from Livan, sure, can we start in the 3rd inning. I use to wish that same thing with Radke, can we just move past the first 2 innings.
If you think Cuddyer is just a rumor on the payroll, they’re already talking about setting up a rehab stint for him.
“I use to wish that same thing with Radke, can we just move past the first 2 innings”
I could not STAND Radke!! Playing a normal baseball game versus constantly playing from behind is a morale killer. Radke constantly put us in a hole yet was absolutely loved by the team, management, and local media.
nice post Delbs!!
This is even more reason to trade for Beltre. Move Beltre to 3B and slide Punto or Harris over to second with Everett available soon. Beltre should flourish in the Twins lineup.
why not bring up macri? he played really well when he was up here
No trade! Don’t we have a farm system? Don’t deplete it, use it.
Does anyone think there is any value in trading some of our great pitching to get Brandon Phillips. This would be a HUGE upgrade to the middle and allow Alexi to move to SS. This would be the best middle infield in the majors, AND a huge boost to the line up!
Go Twins
One thing’s for sure, now that Casilla is out, Gardy is going to have his hands full…if the Twins go on a run (starting with our current four-game winning streak), we’ll have to give Gardy a lot of credit!
Mark Ellis and Huston Street would solve all problems. Deal with Oakland!
I don’t see anyone lamenting Silva leaving… the time to make a real trading deadline move was when the Twins WERE only 1 or 2 players away few years ago… this current team needs a 2nd,SS,3rd,8th inning reliever and the young hitters all have to suddenly gain experience to be able to produce in postseason..
is the cost justified to get Beltre or whoever at 2nd for the rest of this year and next year.. I will trust the F.O. to weigh it more then rube nation
I like Nate’s thinking!
“No trade! Don’t we have a farm system? Don’t deplete it, use it.”
That’s the tough situation we’re in. I know the Twins for years have brought up solid talent, but I honestly can’t remember a year like this, where they brought up so many guys that had immediate impact. Obviously the top of the list is Span, Casilla, and Buscher, who have all had a hand in winning games and are all hitting over .300. Then you do have guys like Macri and others down there that could do well and would at least get experience.
It’s all gonna come down to what the ownership wants. A big trade could help us right now. But for years their motto has been to build for the future. I’ve never waited so long for a future, so hopefully it’s coming sometime soon.
FIRE VAVRA & GARDY!!!! Who pissed in your cheerios this morning? Have faith that they can make the playoffs and do something this year. Don’t moan and groan about years past. Oh I wish we would have had this guy 10 years ago, we could have beat the Yankees then, boo hoo. We are in the here and now and you my friend need to have some faith that what ever happens, the current team will do their best.
LOL your moniker is “FO STINKS” and you are trying to do T’s job as Blog Monitor??
I just don’t see an infield of Buscher / Harris (3B), Everett (SS), and Punto (2B) getting us to the playoffs, but that’s just me.
AMEN!!!!!!!!!
Glad someone else loves you as much as I do Fire!
They had an interesting discussion on the radio last night. A caller proposed packaging Cuddy/Livan for something. (Didn’t specify what exactly)
I’m sure the Twins are CONSIDERING it. But unfortunatley with Cuddy’s health this season, I doubt a team would leap at a chance to get him.
Especially if he’s going to be coming off the DL just in time for the trade deadline. Don’t think any team would take that chance.
The offseason would be when they’d consider moving Cuddy. And they very well might do it if they think Span’s the answer.
I just have concerns that one of 08 Casilla/Span will turn into 06 Punto. A GREAT boost and a hot bat…completely overestimated and suddenly a flop the following year.
With Punto likely out in 09…somebody’s going to have to take over his place in the “hearts” of fans.
It’s really hard to compare the teams we’ve had in the playoffs to this year. Guys that I thought contributed a lot and couldn’t be replaced have been replaced. Mientkewicz (yes I know I probably spelled it wrong) was a huge fan favorite and we replaced him with an MVP first baseman, Pierzynski was solid behind the plate and now Mauer is better, Eddie Guardado was THE MAN and now we have one of the top closers in baseball.
The main difference I can see is the loss of Santana. Don’t get me wrong, I’m glad to see him gone after he made it clear he was going to totally screw us if we didn’t trade him, but with him in the rotation you could always try and pitch him twice in a 5-game division series or more in a 7-game, and he was usually good for a win. Other than that, I don’t see how we’re that much worse off now. Yes there are differences, but we’ve subracted here and added there, and we don’t have that bad of a ball club.
I’m a big fan of Phillips if he’s available. In regards to the Gomez/Span not fitting in on the same team … I think Bill Smith will have to trade an outfielder in the offseason (Delmon, Gomez, Span, Cuddyer, Kubel - all 5 should get get the opportunity to play everyday - maybe DH platoon Kubel/Cuddyer, but then we’d be paying Cuddy too much to just play against lhp) considering that Revere should be ready for 2010 and Hicks in 2011.
whoa, anybody else refresh their screen and get a vastly different layout for this page?
http://ww3.startribune.com/blogs/sinker/2008/07/30/life-without-casilla/
Strike while the iron is hot. Put Span out there to see what he can bring in.
Twins need a block buster that would set them up for years to come.
They need to go for either Young, Roberts or Atkins. IMHO Span, Blackburne, Jose Morales (AAA) and any AAA or AA pitcher (except FL) s/b used in trade bait to get one of these guys.
Atkins is probably a stretch but the others I don’t think are.
Grudz would be the best move. I can’t see where he would cost much and he becomes a free agent at the end of the year so we are only on the hook for two months. Veteran presence, decent hitter, decent glove and possibly cheap.
i would propose…
Blackburn, Lamb, and the 19 year old stud we got from the Mets for Brandon Phillips…
I do not think that the Twins will trade within the division, unless they can send one of the AAA senior citizens to KC, which will not happen. Lopez is just 24 and is a work in progress. Roberts will be ultra expensive and for the same players the Twins could get Beltre who will be a better fit for the team.
Some affordable and realistic 2B options:
Ron Beliard, Nationals
Edgar Gonzalez, Padres
Mark Loretta, Houston
But seriously, something has to be done with preventing the hand injuries…
Some good ideas here, but I am afraid that our FO is going to sit on its hands again or do some nothing mini-move or get some washed-up cheap vet. And I agree that LNP batting 2nd, notwithstanding last night, is one of Gardy’s more horrid moves. But knowing Gardy’s love for LNP and his stubborness, and, of course, his refusal to put Mauer anywhere but 3, I can see this being the line-up for quite some time if there’s no meaningful trade. Cuddyer at 2nd would be more awful than Cuddy at 3rd. Talk about lack of range.
I was at the game last night and it was awesome to see so many butts in the seats and to be a part of the playoff-like atmosphere. Let’s rock the Dome and the Whities for the rest of this series!
“But seriously, something has to be done with preventing the hand injuries…”
Isn’t it rediculous? I’m not blaming anyone, well head-first slides into first base aren’t the wisest, but you need to slide head-first into second base a lot, maybe they’ve had bad form? I don’t know, it’s just so weird. They don’t have nagging hamstring injuries, they aren’t fouling balls off their knees, it’s all upper body.
When Cuddyer comes off the d.l., the Twins will have six outfielders: Young, Span, Gomez, Kubel, Monroe and Cuddyer. They also have a AAAA outfielder Pridie. It seems that at least one of these could be a pretty decent trading chip for an infielder or a setup man. Otherwise when Cuddyer comes back is Kubel, the man without a postiion, or Young or Span? Is Kubel just going to be a d.h. against right handers and Monroe against southpaws?
I think Liriano should be the only one that is untouchable in the Twins organization, well unless the Rockies would trade us Holliday then I would throw Franky in there. But anyway I think obviously, Roberts with his good hitting and excellent base stealing having him and Go Go’s speed in the lineup must be pretty tempting for the Twins. He would likely require a haul in return especially since he is signed through next year.
One thing the Orioles are short on is pitching. The Twins have an abundance in the minors. Plus they are looking for a third baseman to replace Melvin Mora. I would say Luke Hughes our AA third baseman with some serious pop, Kevin Mulvey, who has a bad record but a good ERA and high strike out totals in AAA Rochester this year and our AAA shortstop with some potential in Trevor Plouffe. I would think this would entice Baltimore for the following reasons. They need young starting pitching, a third baseman to replace Mora, and they have been said to be asking for a shortstop in return for a deal of Sherill. This may not be enough, but there is some high ceiling talent here, Mulvey is probably ready right now. We’ll see what they do.
2 cents: Kay is correct, come on everyone, dont you know this team? What trades will be done in 1 day? Casilla is a big loss, especially since Punto will now be our 2-hole hitter which will probably be the worst thing to come from the injury… Why the lineup can’t slide up one spot is as frustrating as Redmond batting 3rd on Mauer’s day off…
Your lineup for the next 2 weeks:
1. Span
2. Punto
3. Mauer
4. Morneau
5. Young
6. Kubel
7. Harris/Buscher
8. Buscher/Everett
9. Gomez
Ouch… hopefully it’s Harris AND Buscher most of the time…
All,
Brandon Phillips ain’t happening. The Reds signed him to a 4-year deal during spring training. He’s part of whatever future they imagine in Cincinnati.
TNG,
Did you get the blue/gray screen? That happens very rarely. Lotsa traffic here today. That’s why you have a refresh button!
Ugh I forgot about Monroe. That guy is awful. Batting right at .200, very little production. I’m very thankful for his 2 home runs agains the Red Sox and his other HR’s, but the guy is not worth keeping around. He claims he’d be better if he was playing every day, so maybe we could trade him to a team where he could play every day. I know we wouldn’t get much more than a bag of sunflower seeds for him but we should try.
Everyone wants a big star landed in a deal. Bringing in a stranger is a hard thing to fit. Superstars cost big $ and good young players too. If Jose Morales were healthy at AAA, moving Lamb and Everett and bring back macri and a 3rd catcher…..to allow redmond more at bats, would provide help vs lefties, and not mortgage future. Plus, prove you can beat the good teams on road, then think about risking the future for a run at a title. Remember, Cuddy and Tolbert may need roster spot yet. Watch for minor deals, incl lamb, bonser, everett.
Probably come at a cost higher than we’re willing to afford, but forget Beltre…Go get Kevin Kouzmanoff(3B/San Diego) and Brandon Phillips (2B/Cincinnati) - - alright, maybe that’s a blue collar dream move for our favorite club…but it’s a great thought.
I haven’t checked lately, but I thought Pridie had been starting to come around well after a pretty disappointing start to the season. I would think he might have some value.
I think Grudz is a possibility. The Royals want to move him and since he’s FA after this year and KC isn’t contending this year anyway, what do they care if he helps the Twins in ‘08?
The Twins certainly have a few guys in the minors that they’re looking at losing next year if they don’t make the major league roster and with so much youth, there isn’t going to be a lot of open spots. It’s unlikely any of those prospects are going to be huge “Twins-killers” in the future but they might have a shot at sticking with the Royals next spring.
Make the deal for Grudzielanek. (Then go check back with Seattle to see if they’ve gotten any more reasonable with what they’re asking for Beltre.)
i sure am reading alot of crazy posts and some pretty nutty trade suggestions. lets just say span is not going to be traded. cuddyer when healthy will be back in rf/dh rotation. cuddy will not play 3rd and will not play 2nd. lets be damn sure of that, and you that think otherwise need to have your baseball mind examined, im sorry. the easiest solution to this that i can see is to make the trade for beltre so that he can play 3b and hit behind morneau, as thats a given. now 2nd will have to be manned by punto, who i feel is about as good as it gets, especially if he can hit. i know hes not alexi, but who is?? so you go with punto and allow harris to play ss and hope alexi gets well soon. the twins have chips to trade but its not coming from the ml roster. it will come from AA-AAA. lamb and monroe have no value, so these nutty packages are a waste of time. trade for beltre and get someone to help the bullpen andi think things will be fine. i will say tho, that if the twins could pick up grudzlianik or however you spell him, on the cheap that would be a godsend, but not to disrupt any trade for beltre or the bullpen move……..bill smith had better now get off his big ass, like i have said numerous times, but now even more so…..losing alexi is big, but they can and will survive just fine if bill smith does his job….we will see
Not sure why everyone wants to use Span as trade bait, he is a young fast excellent fielder and has become a major league hitter. If youre gonna trade any outfielder its Cuddy. Cuddy is an average fielder with a great arm and is ok at the plate (hes had one good year and that was when Mauer and Morneau were going off too which helped his pitches he saw) If you could somehow trade Cuddy,Lamb, Blackburn or Livan, Buscher, Boof and maybe a couple prospects to Baltimore and Seattle for Beltre and Robters (far fetched I know) but that would be the best case. Yes it would be expensive but its time the Twins started to spend a little especially with the new stadium coming. If they could do that look at the line-up then
W/0 Cassilla
1. Span
2. Roberts
3. Mauer
4. Morneau
5. Beltre
6. Young
7. Kubel
8. Punto/Harris
9. Gomez
With Cassilla
1. Span
2. Roberts
3. Mauer
4. Morneau
5. Beltre
6. Young
7. Kubel
8. Cassilla
9. Gomez
I like both line-ups, much more fearsome than what they’ve had in a long time or what it would look like with Cuddy in it.
Then the pitching Rotation would look like this
Baker
Perkins
Slowey
Livan/Blackburn
Liriano
Id also like to see them give the yanks some draft choice or mid-low level prospect to get the Hawk back to set up Nathan. But thats just what I think.
There is no reason this team cannot be last years Rockies - and ride a bunch of kids deep into the Playoffs. If Livan can manage to tear a tendon in his finger before the playoffs, we’d be running out baker, Liriano, Slowey… they’ve shown flashes of brilliance in their careers (I’d argue Baker is rounding out into his Staff Ace role as we speak) - all it would take is for each of them to get hot for 2 or 3 starts, and we’re into the WS. Slowey CGSO against the Brewers & the Sox? Two of the best lineups in the game.
Our bullpen would get better in the post season with the addition of a starter or two. Our lineup is where we need to improve. If Lexi is out (hopefully only for 2 weeks) - it could be the injury that forces the Twins to make a big move. Bill Smith is not Terry Ryan - he proved that when he traded Garza/Bartlett for DY/Harris. I’m going to give him the benefit of the doubt for the next 36 hrs. Until he proves he’s as unwilling to pull the trigger as TR was, I’ll have some faith.
Dude… the guys you propose trading (except Blackburn) have big salaries. None of the teams in “sell” mode are looking to take on big salaries… they’re looking to dump salaries and pick up young, cheap talent.
It’s fine to dream, but there’s one day left before the non-waiver trade deadline. You have to be realistic.
Howard this might end up being the longest blog you’ve ever had. At first i thought this was a fatal blow but I’m going to remain optimistic and say LNP will fill in adequately for Casilla. I was really down on Vavra earlier in the season but i give him a lot of credit for helping guys like Span and Casilla and i believe he’s helped Nick as well. The Twins won’t make any big trades but they will be fine and FIRE will be changing his name as promised.
Bill Smith traded Garza becaue the team did not like him. Until I see him make a trade not involving a player that Gardy hates, I will not believe he is any different than Ryan. I offer Lamb, Everett, Monroe, and Livan as evidence that he is the same kind of GM.
Yeah I’m reluctant to give up Span so early, I’d rather see Gomez gone.
I know it’s not like the Twins to make a huge trade but it makes all the sense in the world, because:
We have too many quality starting pitchers and too many quality outfielders. We already have trouble/controversy with Liriano deserving a spot on a MLB roster, and after injuries are healed, we’ll have quality outfielders sitting on the bench. It’s a waste to have guys like that on the bench so the suggestions of packaging a pitcher and an outfielder are the best idea.
What sense does it make to have 4-5 quality outfielders, 6 quality starting pitchers, yet a 2B, SS, and 3B corps that lacks any pop? Or a bullpen that makes fan cringe when they get the ball?
It’s great to have all this talent and will be tough to see any of these hard working guys leave, but it doesn’t make sense to have an overabundance some places while we’re hurting in others.
Packaging Boof, Monroe, or Lamb is worth extra credit in my book. We really won’t get much for them but they could all possibly rebound on a different team. My pick in Boof, I could really see him succeeding with someone else.
Correction, you also mentioned Boof and Buscher who aren’t salary inflated yet. Still… that list is not going to provide the return you’re expecting. To get Beltre, Roberts, Atkins or anyone of similar quality, it’s going to HURT.
well we can be happy we get to watch morneau game in and game out having an outstanding yr. imo he’ll get very few good piches to hit as the season goes on without more of a threat behind him, and that’s not going to be kubal, cuddy or young scaring anyone.
trying to be a realist i doubt any trades will happen the twins have a history of not doing anything to really improve the team mid season and now the other clubs know we’re in a need situation and the price will go up.
i don’t see anyway enough can be done to catch the angels they really look good now.
the infield of harris, everett and punto will no doubt put the fear of god in the pitchers we face.
Great clutch at-bats by LNP again last night. Little league pop out to short.
Get an infielder in here that will put him in the role he belongs….Utility, off the bench and pinch runner.
Batting 2nd now…who can handle this and why?
The agony continues…
LOL BC I hope you will see BILL,GARDY & VAVRA MIRACLE WORKERS INC. by late Sept!!
ggg- this team has surprised us all year, that may continue.. has midnight struck for Cinderella yet?? maybe not..
“If you could somehow trade Cuddy,Lamb, Blackburn or Livan, Buscher, Boof and maybe a couple prospects to Baltimore and Seattle for Beltre and Robters (far fetched I know) but that would be the best case.”
That goes well beyond ‘far fetched’.
“well we can be happy we get to watch morneau game in and game out having an outstanding yr”
He should definitely be up there in MVP voting this year. Ozzie Guillen said after Monday’s game that Morneau is the most dangerous hitter in the game today. An opposing manager saying that should be huge, but of course the national media barely acknowledge it, probably assuming Ozzie hadn’t taken his meds that day or something.
Getting even more off-subject, the HR Derby was on TV last night again and again it pissed me off. I know it’s stupid to bring this old stuff up and won’t do any good but then again none of us talking on here will do any good, so here I go.
When Morneau came up to hit, they just HAD to introduce him as “the 2006 AL MVP, narrowly beating out Derek Jeter, you all should remember that one,” as if Morneau deserves an asterik on that trophy. Then of course we have Rick Reilly’s boneheaded comments about why Morneau was even there and that all the participants were white. How much did Jesse Jackson pay him to say that?
Again, I realize this is old news, I’m not trying to start a totally new topic, just venting, thanks for listening.
stop with the “MN Sports Inferiority complex” !! the Twins get plenty of kudos as the “little engine that could” and such a “scrappy, against all odds,play the right way” team frankly this team gets way too much credit so that F.O. believes drafting,teaching,playing - “small ball” on the cheap is working and is consistently susstainable
I think the Twins should have been involved in the Texeria deal. The Angels paid chump change for him, and the Twins could have offered much better prospects. You then get a switch hitting bat in the middle of your line-up, with power, and a guy who could spell Justin at 1st. Plus, you would finally get the everyday DH we have so coveted for the last couple years.
Now, with Casilla’s injury, you are going to be stuck paying way too much for a guy like Roberts. So, the Twins will play the trade deadline game like they always do, stand pat and go with what they have.
Is there a good reason you feel the need to come on here and tell me what I can and can’t post?
The one positive is that Punto won’t make the mental errors that Casilla did and won’t piss off Perkins for failing to turn an easy double play.
There is no need for a trade. Punto can handle 2B and he is an experienced and successful hitter in the 2nd slot (2006). Everett is an experienced everyday SS, with excellent fielding skills. Buscher and Harris are fine at 3B, and Harris can play in the middle on occasion. Lamb is swinging the bat better as a part time player.
Tolbert should be back soon, and Alejandro Machado is a talented player now in AAA. Steven Tolleson and Brian Dinkleman are very good infielders at AA. Tolleson could probably play in the majors right now. The Twins are fairly solid in the INF.
One concern could be depth at SS. I could see the Twins adding a good AAA SS to the organization. They don’t have that now.
I don’t want to give up any starting pitching. I think it would be a bad move. Only Livan has pitched an entire season in the majors. The young uys are going to start fading down the stretch and might not have anything left in the tank if the team does make it into the playoffs. Twins would have to get a ton of extra run production from a bat to make up for any pitching they’d trade away to get it.
“I think the Twins should have been involved in the Texeria deal. The Angels paid chump change for him, and the Twins could have offered much better prospects.”
What would you have offered for Mark Teixeira that would have have been “much better” than Casey Kotchman? The Braves wanted a MLB ready first baseman with talent. The Twins don’t have that in their minor league system. On top of that, the Angels have better position prospects in their minors than the Twins do.
So, no, I don’t think they could have offered anything better, but I’d be interested in seeing what you think could have gotten it done.
FIRE VAVRA & GARDY!!!! still waiting to hear why your opinion is more legit than anyone else on here
Casilla has logged 272 more innings on Defense and has 8 errors to Punto’s 4… Fielding% is almost even .972 to .973
I love the myth that Punto is a defensive magician (actually that is more accurate, he gives the illusion that he’s such an awesome defensive player)
Perkins, Crain, Pridie and Buscher for Roberts and Mora.
Leave it alone. Don’t trade anyone.We weren’t suppose to be in the chase.Trade someone might screw up the team. Leave it alone.
“I love the myth that Punto is a defensive magician (actually that is more accurate, he gives the illusion that he’s such an awesome defensive player)”
This is one of the great lines of the last year. Thanks.
I have not seen every game that Nick Punto has played, but my impression of him is that he DOES make some spectacular plays. Then follows them up with some bad plays (or non-plays). He’s been that way ever since we got him from the Phillies. I guess people tend to remember the spectacular plays.
“I think the Twins should have been involved in the Texeria deal. The Angels paid chump change for him, and the Twins could have offered much better prospects.”
Except for Morneau, the Twins have no one to take Casey Kotchman’s place in that trade package.
The Braves needed a Teixiera replacement at 1B.
Who could the Twins offer?
Randy Ruiz?
Garrett Jones?
Brock Peterson?
Erik Lis?
In place of Kotchman?
Not even close!
Bill Smith traded Garza becaue the team did not like him.
Wrong. Bill Smith wanted Delmon Young. The only way the Rays get Young is if the Twins give up Garza.
It’s called “giving up quality to get quality.”
Until I see him make a trade not involving a player that Gardy hates, I will not believe he is any different than Ryan.
Oh your right. Gardy absolutely HATED Santana. I mean, those two butted heads all the time. And I heard that in the clubhouse he was just a cancer.
And of course, none of us liked that bum either.
Unless you want to whip out the ol’ “salary dump” comeback. The other means for dismissing anything this team does.
Dan my moniker is alot more original 
Amazing!
The newspaper and many others shown here think all this babble is more important then the story about the ice breaking off “Huge chunk breaks off storied Arctic ice shelf”.
I would say get a life but life as we know it is fast coming to an end.
Oh wait. Sorry I disagreed with you. Forgot that I’m not allowed to do that unless I want to be a Blog Cop or whatever the heck you guys think is clever these days.
PeteD,
Sorry.
You already had it covered.
about Punto…I think he is still better than Cassilla, Alexi may have a little more range, but Punto really is a great defensive player, and at 3 positions, which is huge, he is very good at second, short, and third.
“They had an interesting discussion on the radio last night. A caller proposed packaging Cuddy/Livan for something.”
Morris, Gladden and Gordon were talking about a trade the other night and made the point that you have to give up someone you like to get someone you like. Who would give us anything of value for the overpaid Cuddyer and the high-ERA Livan? Cripes, why not throw Boof in the mix and try to get Garrett Atkins? Like the Rockies are that stupid.
Send Mike Lamb up to the Arctic. He could help it cool off.
T: Santana is not an example of being different than TR. It was trading away an expensive player, for many cheaper players. That is EXACTLY the kind of deal TR did, isn’t it?
I’d like to believe the Garza/Young deal was done for the reason you stated. But, I have no evidence that is true. When they trade young players for a player that makes good money, then I’ll believe he is a different kind of GM. I think we’ll likely just disagree on this one, would be my guess.
The Twins win with their pitching. Those young pitchers Terry Ryan hoarded, are really coming around nicely. Good thing Ryan didn’t listen to people posting on the blogs, and trade them all away for hitters.
If the Twins had also kept Santana and Garza, they would be so far ahead of the pack, they would be printing playoff tickets right now.
“Punto really is a great defensive player, and at 3 positions”
SIMULTANEOUSLY!
Perkins for Blalock, straight up. Liriano joins rotation. Punto can more than handle 2B, but agreed he shouldn’t bat in the 2 hole by any means.
Once done, see what we can get for Everett, if anything. Maybe package him with Macri and see if we can get a middling+ bullpen guy from somewhere.
Craig, what did the team win while TR hoarded those players? One and done in the playoffs. If that is the goal, then I agree, TR did the right thing.
If the goal is to win it all, then I don’t think he did. Again, I’m pretty sure we’ll never agree on this point.
I don’t see why everybody’s desperate for a trade. I mean, considering that they’re battling the owner, the general manager, the manager, the 3rd base coach, the hitting instructor, half their roster (or from the looks of things everybody not named Morneau, Baker, or Span), it’s amazing this team has managed to win anything at all.
The entire front office is out to destroy them and they’ve managed to somehow come out only a half game back in the division. All while still trying to overcome almost 90% of their own roster.
They’re not only winning despite their FO/staff, but their own TEAM. WTF?!
Forget trading the players, let’s just trade the front office and coaching staff for something.
Maybe we can pacakage TR and BS for Joe Torre. Then put together something with our coaching staff to get Theo Epstien over here.
How does our coaching staff in the minors look? Maybe the Red Sox could use a guy like Jake Mauer.
Dean, didn’t Blaylock just go on the DL again?
“If the Twins had also kept Santana and Garza, they would be so far ahead of the pack, they would be printing playoff tickets right now.”
Last year the Twins had Santana and Garza (and Silva) and without offense they finished 17 games out of first.
mike: Your right. Blaylock just went on the DL yesterday I believe. Which unfortunately may UP the price for Beltre (fewer players on the market puts those players in further demand)
Someone tell me how you purposely build a team to just win the division but that is not good enough to go all the way.
and to clarify, not to defend him, but he is a decent middle infielder on defense… it’s just that everyone always brings up how GREAT he is on D to overshadow his inadequacies on offense…
Avg defender who occasionally makes the “web gem” play (but what defender doesn’t make a web gem every now and then?)
And if someone never makes spectacular plays, does that mean they suck on defense? probably not, they were probably positioned correctly and have better range than others…
ok, I digress.
If the Twins had Santana and Garza, your OF would’ve been Span/Cuddyer/Kubel (or Monroe) with the other being in DH. Your IF would be Punto/Everett. That would’ve been FUN.
My mistake. MIF of Punto/Bartlett.
“Last year the Twins had Santana and Garza (and Silva) and without offense they finished 17 games out of first.”
So?
So?
So, no offense - no chance!
Walter: if that is aimed at me, I’ll give more context for my statement about TR and hoarding pitchers. My beliefe is that once you get this far into a season (like earlier in the decade when they were really good, and had an ACE pitcher), that you deal from your minor league depth to fill gaping holes (like DH and 3B were during their run). I believe, though of course there is no way to prove this, that they’d have at least 1, maybe 2 WS titles had they dealt some of th minor league pitching for a legit 3B or DH. This season could be similar (though I don’t think they are as good as they were, and I now think they are more than 1 bat away). They are definitely in position to make the playoffs. So, the question is, do you deal to make your team better now, or do you keep your depth (of course, that means you would never deal to make your team better - why would your strategy change next year).
Or maybe it wasn’t aimed at me, and I should just stop typing this particular belief…
Liriano could probably turn some pretty sweets double plays!
mike wants wins,
Thee Twins lost in the playoffs, because the other teams played a little better than the Twins did. The Twins were evenly matched, talent wise.
Craig, I agree with that assessment of the talent. Ergo, my belief that they should have traded some minor league depth for more talent, so they would have superior talent.
“The Twins were evenly matched, talent wise.”
Ha, yeah we were evenly matched with the Yankees in 2003 and 2004. Sure we were.
We were evenly matched with the Angels in 2002 as well. That’s why they beat us 4-1.
What we were in those years was the benefactors of a horrible division.
Not so in 2006, but we still got thumped.
If we get a return trip this year, we should as fans demand better results…but at this point, I’d just like to set ourselves up for the invite.
mike, yes my point was aimed at you, and everyone else who has mad the same argument, including some of the Twins players. My opinion is that the Twins failure to advance in the post season was not do to lacking any one player, but was the result of the players that won the division either choking or having flat performances in the playoffs. With one exception: not replacing J.C. Romero in the ‘03 season left Gardy essentially one pitcher short in the playoffs because he couldn’t use Romero. If you are good enough to win the division, you should be good enough to go all the way (with the exception of whoever wins the NL West this year).
Punto’s fielding zone rating at 2B is .855, whereas Casilla’s is .800.
Does this mean we will see more of #8 Nick Punto. I can’t get enough of that little firebrand!
Scooter:
It is way way too early to evaluate Garza/Bartlett for DY/Harris. Way too early!!! I will admit now, it doesnt look very good. But this is only year 1. Plus who knows what either might do in the postseason. Hypothetically lets say the Rays and Twins both make the postseason. Lets say Garza who has had a great regular season sucks in the postseason and DY starts mashing the ball and is a big contributor along with Harris which would you rather have? I would rather have the latter, postseason performance. Really this trade isnt as lopsided as some think. DY is still young, I think he is 22 years old, didnt play college ball like Garza, came right out of high school, isn’t as advanced. He has no celing DY and he has picked it up as of late. And Bartlett, dont get me started on him. I know the TB mananger is saying all these great things about him, but isnt this the same guy that made around 30 errors last year while hitting about .220 or so? Why wouldnt you trade that guy. And his numbers this year are very comparable to Harris, without the steals for Harris, but thats what we have Go Go for. So the Rays have the advantage right now, but by no means have won this trade when both key pieces still have a lot of time left in their careers. It’s foolish to evaluate this trade now.
“fielding zone rating”?
(rolls eyes)
How is Punto’s “chick magnetism index”?
What about his “bat angle efficiency index”?
Or his “dive into first dust-free percentage index”?
sid,
The Twins added one okay hitter (Young), four awful hitters (Gomez, Lamb, Monroe, Everett) and one mediocre hitter (Harris).
The hitting has improved with the improvement of players they already had. (Buscher, Span, Casilla, Punto).
Walter - you are forgetting that the Twins feasted on the Nl and their horrible division all year.. if the Twins played in the AL East this team never reaches .500 the Twins are good enough to with a weak divison but no more.. we can debate why that is
1)lack of resources - money
2)org. philosphy that only makes the team competitive but never real contender
3)both 1 & 2
4)another reason?
Do we not know how to slide? Seriously! What the hell is going on? Every time somebody tries to slide into a base they get hurt!?!? Maybe it’s time to teach the feet first slide, because this is getting ridiculous.
craig,
Thats my point.
The offense improved.
We gave up Garza, Santana, Silva and Neshek (not intentional) and gained 16 1/2 games in the standings.
Improving the offense was a justifiable priority!!!
FIRE,
EVERYONE in the AL feasts on NL team in interleague play. Before this year, NY and Boston got to play the Devil Rays and Orioles and Toronto, not much of a division there in my opinion.
I agree with your point 1) money. Point 2) is the same one mike made. Again, how do you say “Let’s keep just enough talent to make sure we win the division, but not so good that we will make it deep into the playoffs”?
How does the FO plan to win the division in 2006 with the 2nd most wins in the AL yet purposely hold the team back so that they don’t have the players to get out of the first round of the playoffs?
“If you are good enough to win the division, you should be good enough to go all the way (with the exception of whoever wins the NL West this year).”
Absolutely, Walter Johnson.
The idea that one kind of team is good enough to win during the season, and another kind of team is needed for the playoffs, has no basis.
The Twins can play any team competitively. If they lose in NY, that has much to do with the fact that the umpires won’t call strike 3 to NY’s superstar hitters. If Derek Jeter jumps out of the way of strike three on the inside part of the plate, the umpire calls it a ball. That’s the way the game is, and that is how it’s been since before Mantle and Maris.
Are you guys insane?? Our guys have been doing nothing but playing well all year, we are 1/2 game out of the division lead and everyone wants to make a trade? It doesn’t make any sense. How do you guys know we can’t win a championship with this team? I’m sorry but there it no such thing as perfection or having the perfect infield or whatever. A little less criticism and a little more support goes a long way. By the way, no one has proven they will win anything yet - that’s why you play the game!
sid,
The hitting improved on it’s own. They didn’t need to trade Santana and Garza for hitters. That’s my point.
None of the hitters Bill Smith acquired, except for Young, has done much. Considering all the balls Young has botched in the OF, he isn’t much of a net gain either.
“The New and Improved Craig says:
July 30th, 2008 at 11:46 am
sid,
The Twins added one okay hitter (Young), four awful hitters (Gomez, Lamb, Monroe, Everett) and one mediocre hitter (Harris).
The hitting has improved with the improvement of players they already had. (Buscher, Span, Casilla, Punto).”
I’m sorry, but on what planet has an awful hitter EVER hit 28 bombs in a season(Monroe)? What’s your definition of awful?
my impression of him is that he DOES make some spectacular plays. Then follows them up with some bad plays (or non-plays). He’s been that way ever since we got him from the Phillies. I guess people tend to remember the spectacular plays.
That is spot on. Punto is the dipolar opposite of Harris. Harris is all fundamentals. He gets in front of the ball, squares up, plants, and makes a strong throw. Punto is all instincts. He’s always running around the ball to backhand it so he can make a throw on the run.
Punto’s play is flashy, but it isn’t more effective. In fact, it’s more error prone. He might have more range than Harris, but he’ll make more errors as well. And he has a little of the Juan Castro disease. That is, he’ll pull up and let a ball go if he doesn’t think he can make the throw.
Personally, I prefer Harris because he’s solid, if not spectacular. Casilla is the best of both worlds. He doesn’t try to make the routine play look flashy. He tried playing like Punto last year because he noticed the manager likes it, and he got chewed out and left off the team this year because of it. So he’s solid on the routine plays and only flashy when it’s the only way to make a play. His defense will be missed more than his offense.
“I’m sorry, but on what planet has an awful hitter EVER hit 28 bombs in a season(Monroe)? What’s your definition of awful?”
Z,
I didn’t know Monroe was going to hit 20 more bombs this year. Is he going to improve that .199 AVG, and striking out one out three AB, also?
Or his “dive into first dust-free percentage index”?
Or you know, we could focus on stats that actually exist.
Maybe it’s time to teach the feet first slide, because this is getting ridiculous.
With the Twins luck? I’d give it a week before somebody sprains an ankle.
And a week after that until their replacement breaks a toe.
“The New and Improved Craig says:
July 30th, 2008 at 12:12 pm
“I’m sorry, but on what planet has an awful hitter EVER hit 28 bombs in a season(Monroe)? What’s your definition of awful?”
Z,
I didn’t know Monroe was going to hit 20 more bombs this year. Is he going to improve that .199 AVG, and striking out one out three AB, also?”
So this year makes him an awful hitter overall? That makes sense…
What’s your definition of awful?
.202/.274/.405
Craig Monroe was good for a couple of years and now he’s done. His career trajectory follows that of Lew Ford. He was old when he first made it to the majors. He had a couple of good years, and his production dropped off the table when the league figured him out, and his age caught up to him, and he didn’t have the chops to make the adjustments. It’s why scouts and prospect hounds pay such close attention to age when evaluating prospects.
There is no way Cuddy should be put at second base. I think he should be traded, possibly to the mariners, for Beltre. The Twins have the outfield of the future, not to mention Ben Revere, who has been compared to a young Kerby Puckett.
Back to Cuddy, hes a career .270 hitter with one decent power year hitting 24 HR. These stats are very close to Beltre, but Beltre is a more consistent power hitter, who could fit in our left handed dominated lineup. Even with Cuddys arm in right field, need to do something about the hole at third, but Polad will not pu up the money for Beltre. The Twins also need to try and get another middle infielder. How bout this?
A package deal with the Mariners. The Twins give up Branden Harris, Livan Hernandez, and Michael Cuddyer, and get back Adrian Beltre and Yuniesky Betancourt. Hes a decent shortstop, comparable to Harris, but with getting rid of Livan, there is a spot in the rotation for Francisco Liriano. Can beat it.
“I didn’t know Monroe was going to hit 20 more bombs this year. Is he going to improve that .199 AVG, and striking out one out three AB, also?”
I just wanted to know how a career 162 game average of 23/87/.253 was awful?
craig,
“None of the hitters Bill Smith acquired, except for Young, has done much.”
NAME RUNS+RBI
Young 43+35=78
Harris 52+41=93
Gomez 56+34=90
TOTAL 151+110=261
Twins team total=523
Young,Harris+Gomez produce 41.3% of Twins total runs
Bartlett 25+20=45
So his production dropped off the table what, 1 year ago? sheesh. His OBP is crap, I’ll give you that. But c’mon.
Being a die hard twins fan, this hand injury thing really pi$$es me off. Why do these guys all refuse to wear some type of glove to protect their hands?? I know that it wouldn’t help in every situation, but if it helped in at least one we would be in a better position right now. I see Morneau clutching his batting gloves in his hands while on base, instead of wearing them. Do these few ounces add extra weight and slow them down? I’m certain that it more of a superstition than anything else as to why they don’t wear gloves. I’ve played ball and always wore gloves while running the bases. Come on guys - use your HEADS!!!!!!!!! ……..and another thing, if anyone out there actually thinks Mr. Tightwad Penny-pincher is going to make a trade to help this team, think again. I heard Brett Favre was available………..
While a glove may offer some protection from being spiked (or whatever happened to Cuddy’s finger), I don’t think it stops sprains and pulls considering those come from the fingers getting twsited around during the slide.
They’d maybe help more serious injuries (cuts and the like) but the main injury would still be an issue.
It’s like how a batting helmet will save your life if you get beaned…but it’s still going to hurt like a b**ch.
If anything, Bill Smith’s hitting acquisitions, overall, have served as an impediment to the superior talent already in-house.
I see Morneau clutching his batting gloves in his hands while on base, instead of wearing them
My understanding (from reading entires here take it as you will) is that gripping the gloves is done by players so they don’t spread their hands while running/sliding.
sid,
If the Twins had started the season with Span, Casilla and Buscher playing, instead of Gomez, Harris and Young, that would not have hurt them the way being without Garza and Santana has hurt them. That’s my point.
Kubel in LF.
So his production dropped off the table what, 1 year ago?
Yes. Actually, he was a stud in 2006, especially in the playoffs. But he has been pretty lousy since. He hit .219/.268/.370 in 343 at bats last year between the Tigers and Cubs.
I had hoped that this year would be a bounce-back year. But he’s actually gotten worse. And he’s particularly bad against lefties (.138/.219/.230). That doesn’t bode well for a guy who was brought in to hit left-handed pitching. That’s why a big right-handed bat is at the top of Gardy’s shopping list right now. Monroe isn’t that guy.
What about Christian Guzman? He is not as quick as he used to be but still has a great glove, we could get him to play short and provide the offense lost from Casilla. He is a much better hitter as of late and we could shuffle around Harris and Punto at second base instead of shortstop
gruz or roberts would be nice we could move them to third next year and have an infield like this gruz/roberts/buscher/tolbert/harris at 3rd, punto/tolbert/gruz/roberts/cassilla/harris at ss, and gruz/roberts/ cassilla/punto/harris at 2nd
so basically if u got gruz or roberts they could play 2nd short and third and we would have alot of depth in our lineup
I really like the idea of moving Mauer up to #2 (get him even more at bats) and then putting Young in his place with Moureau behind him. Everything that was said about that lineup change is totally true. We might see some of Youngs power come back as people pitch to him to avoid Morneau!
I hate the idea of Cuddyer at 2nd but what happens when he comes back? We can’t bench Span…he’s been amazing. You can’t put Gomez or Young on the bench either. Does he move to DH then??
“Yes. Actually, he was a stud in 2006, especially in the playoffs. ”
I’d argue that he hasn’t ever been a ’stud’. In fact, his best year was probably 2004, and everything since then has been downhill.
“What about Christian Guzman? ”
Guzman just singed a 2 year extension for $8 million a year with Washington. He isn’t going anywhere.
craig,
“If the Twins had started the season with Span, Casilla and Buscher playing, instead of Gomez, Harris and Young, that would not have hurt them the way being without Garza and Santana has hurt them. Kubel in LF.”
Who would have played RF with Span in CF?
Cuddyer and ?
Anyway, the bottom line is that I think Gomez, Harris and Young PLUS Casilla, Buscher and Span PLUS Mauer, Morneau and Kubel makes us much better offensively.
And Santana, Garza and Silva have been forgotten because of Baker, Blackburn, Slowey and Perkins who are pitching at a comparable level to Garza and Santana AND MUCH BETTER than Silva.
Guzman would be fine. How about Luke Hughes and Chris Parmalee for Guzman?
MLBTR reporting the Giants are nosing around Adrian Beltre. Could be looking at “Brian Sabien’s Revenge” as he scoops Beltre up from under the nose of the Twins.
trvor,
“We might see some of Youngs power come back as people pitch to him to avoid Morneau!”
I am a Delmon fan, but no one is going to pitch to him if he continues to swing at bad pitches.
You just don’t throw strikes to a batter who swings at balls (bad pitches).
Even if Babe Ruth is on deck!
Trade recap:
1) Roberts: Not available.
2) Atkins: Not available. (Rox are buyers)
3) Blaylock: On the DL. (Shoulder)
4) Guzman: Contract extended w/ Nats.
5) Grudzy: Will Royals/Twins deal in the division?
We don’t officially know the price for Beltre. You’d think the Tex trade yesterday would help settle the market values a bit, but it doesn’t sound like that’s the case.
sid,
I understand the Santana trade. Billy Smith had no choice, because Carl wouldn’t pay Johan the salary he commanded in the open market.
The Garza deal is another matter. I prefer Garza and Bartlett to Livan and Everett.
Sid…very good point! He and Gomez both need to sit down with Mauer and let him show them how to read pitches better or something!!
LOL Twins never put their nose into anything…
If Cuddyer is part of a Beltre trade, in all likelihood he would not play RF in Seattle as they have some guy named Suzuki out there (he’s moved back from CF). Cuddyer might play LF with Ibanez going to 1B, or just DH. Both 1B and DH are literal black holes in the Mariners lineup. I don’t think their DH even has any homers.
Also just want to reiterate Seattle will not be budging from their asking price with Blalock going back to the DL and Casilla’s injury. They know they hold the leverage.
Has anyone thought of putting Span in LF, Cuddy in RF, and DH’ing Young? Would improve our outfield defense and maybe Young could find some power.
The bottom line is that Garza and Santana are gone, and the Twins received little in return. No sense crying over it. It’s over.
Ichiro plays in center field.
Span LF. Gomez CF, Young RF. That is the Twins best all around OF. Cuddy should DH and spell Young and Morneau. He should also take some infield, so he could play 3B in a pinch.
Seattle might have interest in Kubel. Maybe even Harris, in the event they trade Beltre to someone.
I would trade a youg starter like swarzak, or Plouffe to KC with the chance to win now. Even if the player traded comes back to haunt us, it is still worth it if we win once in a while.
Nice to see craig back in to midseason form.
I’d call him a troll, but we all know that’s just hurtful.
cmath -
They moved Ichiro back to right about a month and a half ago. The Mariners have been going with a Bloomquist/Reed combo in center since then.
cmathewson…
no he doesn’t, Ichiro moved back to right this year.
Luke Hughes!!! its time for him!!!
Derek,
There is no “d” in Luke Hughes.
Maybe KC would trade within the division. KC is out of the race, Grudz probably wouldn’t be with the Twins next year, and maybe KC would rather see the Twins win the division than Ozzie G (hasn’t he ticked off most everyone in baseball by now?)
Casilla’s injury is Twins Manager Gardenhire’s negligence. Apparently, with five injuries resulting from head first slides, he has not lifted one of his own fingers to tell them not to do that. How stupid can a Manager be? You can always count on Gardenhire doing something, or finding some way, to keep the team from winning the pennant.
It was not a head-first slide. He slid in feet first and over slid the bag, so he needed to grab the bag on the way back.
If Ben Revere could find a smaller glove, maybe he wouldn’t need a better arm. Oh well, not everybody can learn to play the infield…
If Beltre is unavailable and you can’t get Roberts, then go with Plan B and go ahead and release Everett and call up Macri to play 3rd base and shift Punto to 2b. I am no Punto fan but this looks like the best we can do until Casilla returns or until Hughes is ready.
I will be very disappointed if Hughes and Valencia are not called up in the late season call-up when the rosters are expanded. I will really be p.o.d if I see Monroe, Lamb and Everett in training camp next year….
The Twins should definitely not make a trade for a second basemen if it means that they further deplete their farm system. Their farm system is currently depleted as it is, and I personally like how the Twins are consistently in position to contend for the division almost every season due to the strength of their farm system. Moreover, once Tolbert gets back, the loss of Casilla will be lessened considerably, and as it stands right now, having an infield of Buscher, Harris, Punto, and Morneau ain’t so bad. Remember that Punto hit .290 two seasons ago as a starting third baseman, and Harris is by no means an easy out. Besides, Casilla hit in the low 200s last season, and we don’t even know if Casilla would’ve maintained his .315 batting average had he kept playing. Tolbert will be back in a couple of weeks, and he was hitting really well prior to his injury. I will personally be quite happy with an infield of Buscher, Tolbert, Harris/Punto, and Morneau. Hence, Punto only needs to keep up his hitting for a couple more weeks before help arrives in the infield.
The Mariners have been going with a Bloomquist/Reed combo in center since then.
So the Mariners can’t make room for Cuddyer by moving Ichiro back to center? My guess is Cuddyer is a big upgrade at the plate over either Bloomquist (think Nick Punto) or Reed (think Lew Ford). The point is, it’s not as though Ichiro has to stay in right field. He won a gold glove in center last year.
The Twins have got to make a deal in order to stay in the race the rest of the way with Detroit and Chicago. It would be interesting if they put Bonser, Hernandez, Cuddyer, Punto and Bass in a package for the best possible player they can get for either 3B or left handed relief pitcher.
You would think the Twins would try to improve by dumping Bonser, Hernandez and Cuddyer for a solid left handed relief pitcher. Those three are not going to do much to help the team win in the future.
Again, why Cuddyer? The last time he was healthy for a full season he hit 70 XBHs, scored 100 runs and drove in 100 runs. That doesn’t happen from the right side around here very often.
Let’s approach this from a different angle here folks. Who, if you are the GM of another team, are you going to give up for Bonser, Hernandez, Cuddyer, Punto, and Bass? I think you also forgot to mention Harris, Monroe, and Lamb. Good god, why even bother posting such drivel? Maybe we could sign Lew Ford back from Japan and then trade him to another team also! Go ahead and make these trade ideas to another team Bill Smith, I’m sure your number won’t be blocked on future calls after that.
I know im gonna be the bad guy here why dont we stick whats been working here? I think the best kept secret has been Punto and now he can get more AB’s and
when AC comes back healthy we wont miss a beat.
OK, here is the scoop I just got from a good friend and Giants fan in San Francisco. San Francisco radio stations are reporting the Giants are sending Rich Aurelia to the Twins for Boof Bonser (who’d be returning to his original team). He tells me Aurelia’s a good player; primarily a 2nd baseman but can play all around the infield. This actually makes quite alot of sense since Boof was one possibility to be sent down when Liriano was recalled and would have had to clear waivers (which he wouldn’t have) and Aurelia’s a short term (read, “rental”) solution for this year.
Jayson Stark was also reporting an Aurilia/Bonser discussion.
Beeen out of town. Just heard the extent of the Casilla news.
Last year, Castillo was my favorite player. This year, Casilla.
Thank you, baseball gods.
I’d love to get Aubrey Huff. Dude’s a gamer. Not a second baseman, obviously, but a corner guy / DH with pop.
Yes I do remember getting swept out of the playoffs in 2006…
In order to get someone good, we have to give up someone good. Do you honestly think some team is that dumb to give up a good player for bonser, punto, hernandez, and bass?
During the broadcast, Coomer said the Orioles and Twins were definitely talking about Roberts recently and that the “Orioles have lessened their demands.”
DickNBert also sounded as though it was a foregone conclusion that Boof will be traded.
Aurillia huh? Not as big of a guy as I’d like to see the twins go after, but he fits the mold for a ‘Twin’ type move. Will be happy they get something if its for Bonsor, but I’d like to see something more.
He hasn’t played a lick of 2B this year though and only 19 games since in ‘06 and ‘07 combined. Has played 30 games at 3B though(60 at 1B). I would think that would be where they’d put him.
WEEI’s reporting that the Chisox have picked up Griffey, Jr. WHERE IS LIRIANO!!!!
I hope the Sox get Griffey and put his tired butt in CF. That’ll be worth an extra run or two per game for opponents and he simply does not hit well enough any more to make up for his defensive shortcomings.
crap, i think twins really gotta do something now to say to the team “we’re behind you, and we’re going after it,” throw out all this ‘can’t lose a young starter’ garbage, cause it’s B.S. B.S. and you know it.
TNG, I agree to a point. I want Beltre or someone comparable. I wouldn’t give up Baker or Liriano. I wouldn’t give up Perkins because I really do see a huge advantage to having two LHPs in the rotation when Liriano is brought up… and for years to come. That leaves Slowey and Blackburn.
I would not LIKE to lose either of them, but I would probably do it to get Beltre for the rest of this year and next.
I also don’t think that would preclude a Boof for Aurilia trade as well.
I would be nervous about having to finish the season with someone from the minors as our fall-back option if we need to replace someone in the rotation, but it’s a risk I think is worth taking.
Cardinals might be shopping Lohse now…. White sox been looking for a starter…. thats going to blow up in their faces, it better anyway. Going to be so pissed if the Twins ran him out there for like 4 years and didn’t get anything and then I have to watch him beat up on them with the Sox.
TNG, one more thing… I don’t think the M’s have just been asking for one of the young arms. They’ve been over-reaching in what they’ve been asking for Ibanez and Washburn so there’s no reason to think they aren’t being just as unreasonable for Beltre. If they’re looking to raid the Twins for their 3-4 of their top young prospects, the correct response is “no deal”.
A guy I keep thinking has to be available is Mora. He’s not what he used to be, for sure, but he still has some pop in his bat, knows AL pitchers, and I have to believe the O’s would hand him over for a song to shed his salary.
I think if this week ended with the Twins adding Aurilia, Mora and Liriano to their roster and not giving up anyone off their major league roster but Boof (and whoever has to be demoted/DFA’d to make room for the others), I’d say the FO had made a legitimate effort to improve the team for a stretch run without mortgaging the future.
Jim - I know, its been one of current starters, plus a high prospect, and another mid-level prospect.
My logic still applies to this, it doesn’t hurt the future or the now.
The deal I think that should be floated for Beltre is something like this:
Blackburn/Slowey/Perkins
Swarzak/Humber
Hughes/Valencia/Benson
if that doesn’t do it, I don’t know if they should, cause I also don’t like losing a Duensing or Mulvey in this same deal as well.
anyone else giddy about the potential of Shooter Hunt though?
